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I think we can get going. Thank you everybody in the room and everybody online. This panel is RC 19 social protection and African Asia challenges and innovations.

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We have 4 presenters, so they'll each have 15 min. I'd like to make an acknowledgment to country and pay our respects to elders past present and emerging on whose unseated territory.

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We meet today. So our first presenter is Professor Fenning Chen, who's going to talk about new welfare productivism.

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So please welcome. Thank you.

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Is talking about the other countries in North Eastern Asia. Especially in Taiwan about the welfare model.

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Nice.

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Sorry, how can I go? Next one.

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I don't know. How to.

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Don't work.

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And

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Maybe we need help. Yeah, from the

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No.

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No, it is not saying yet. No. I'm sorry, we need help.

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So, yes, maybe we can continue and we excerpt for technical help.

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Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much.

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Yeah. So before year 2,002 the time Taiwan is not the other countries we can prayer best people we can listen to the musical and when the whole world already stopped.

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There is no case in Taiwan so we can the you know all the performance group come to Taiwan is because this is the only place they can pray.

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But, 2,002. And we do me a little case. Oh, of. 19 until year 2,002.

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Main and there are some case come to Taiwan but they are still not much. Happens so is a unique case and how about Hong Kong Hong Kong or also remained quite good until year 2,002.

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And, about the Korea. Korea is in our case in the northeastern nation. Their case much more than the other countries.

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So also in the Japan Japan is also the same case in year 2,002 they have some case but the other The other month they do me a very low case.

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In Japan. So we have in ISIS W knows eastern Asian we have 5 countries when his Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong.

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And, Mongolia.

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And I want to share what's the effect of the employment. For the case of Taiwan.

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We have 6 capitals and during the Covid-nineteen. Some of the worker reduced their working hour.

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This means their salary also reduced. So we can find that in bigger city the people they do more much more their service than the other place.

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And 7 of them lose their job 6 of them changing the other job and some then have to learn the second skill because they're made to, they get considering to change their job.

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And the 6.6 of them. They didn't work sorry that didn't work aboard because some of some of our people working in mainland China or in Hong Kong, the other place.

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They all come back to Taiwan relocated. Their future because their job in other places especially in men in China already stopped So some of them come back to Taiwan.

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And, There are some people, maybe they didn't do their job, but they are unpaid to live there.

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They have to take an unpaid leave. And because the the and you know the employer. Didn't want to lose them but also they don't have the ability to pay the salary.

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So something have to take and pay the leave. And when we announce this What kind of occupation they lose their job.

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The first one will be the accommodation and the food service. The second one will be art and entertainment and the recreation.

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The third one occupation will be human health or social work. The fourth one will be supported by service and also the transport and storage.

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Some kind of occupation. I effect the greater effect.

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And some of them also lose their job. The employment rate. In the case of Taiwan.

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And we find for the people who are working in the service industry. There are much more chance to do their job.

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And for people in an industry section. Maybe they are they are not much more do their job Maybe because they are a skill worker and the company don't want to lose them.

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So maybe they didn't cut their salary. But actually they didn't of those workers.

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Okay, so maybe in this section we much We want to share more about the policy label. And in in Hong Kong.

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Sorry, I didn't see the top. Of the screen. So, they are, We want to we want to discuss that this COVID.

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19. Make the original welfare regime has have to be changed. We're wondering whether in the case of Northeastern Eastern.

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How much to what. Is tender to what extent they have been changed. So in the case of Hong Kong, they pay they have some of the policies.

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Has been issued during this period. For example, they have to pay a temporary employment support. Or they have to raise.

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Their social security assistant. Maybe those jobs are also done by the other countries. As well. They also issue a tiny green phone.

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This kind of rock, this kind of a funk will give the benefit to spatial occupation.

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They are much more affected by this pandemic. So this one is a special. Way for benefit of your parent.

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During the period. And also we have many countries also issued consumption voucher. But everybody give the different, everybody, every countries.

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Have a different limited. To issue the consumption voucher. For in Hong Kong's case, they give the molecule.

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To to the to the cities above 80 years old. Just for the doubt, not for the children.

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And, and also in Hong Kong's case. They reduced the tax for the older citizens.

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And this kind of benefit. Tax reduction didn't happen in other countries.

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This one, this one. This one is Korea. Korea also gives some benefit. To help the people who lose their job.

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But they only give the people whose and the families Who's who is not in the top 30% income and income families.

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So it's a kind of selected welfare benefit. For Korea. And the Korea also use this, if you remember that Korea's case is higher than the other countries.

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But Korea also used this chance. To develop a green New Deal policies. They try to establish a digital and green.

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Effect of going factory for the future. They they want to have a stronger social safety net. At absolute event after this event.

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And they also have some different kind of support. To the special to the spatial occupation.

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And also the issue a they issue a payment to all kind of citizen in in Korea. And they also issue a new job creation plan.

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That means the government. Will create more job. The government will become the employer and create more job for the people who suffer from employment.

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Due to this pandemic. Korea or always always use this kind of massacre. Like, type cans, kains, whale fail policies.

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To create more jobs from the government. And they're so soft employment problem. But again, in Korea, we also, in Korea, they also issued a consumption voucher to ask their citizen to spend money.

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And to avoid the economy, question question.

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Let's in Taiwan. In Thailand we we remember that that we don't have much more case and but we do do something to because the economy also effect during a.

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19 so we also do something but we didn't do But we didn't, text, we didn't do text reductions just like Hong Kong.

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Or we didn't give all the citizens cash. Benefit for all. We don't do that.

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Yeah. And that's, that's, situation. But in Taiwan I want to introduce a very special benefit during the COV.

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19 list code. And there's also a kind of consumption in and Taiwan issued twice of the consumption coppa.

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The first time is coded a triple coupon. The second time is called the five-Ti coupon.

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And that means the people need to use 100 At 1,000 yuan to buy 3,000 coupons.

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So we need to spend money. Before we get a coupon. So during the, during the Covid-nineteen period, the government still wanted the people to do their consumption.

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They need to spend money, then they get the benefit. So the second time we got 5 pies, coupon.

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So you need to spend 1 ¥1,000, then you've got 5,000 coupons.

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To spend money and they also have limited time because they don't want the people. To store the the coupon.

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They want them to spend. In a short time. That means but in this, in this policies we can see that the government didn't.

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Think much more about the people who are suffering from the Covid-nineteen and their economy, their family company may be already They don't have money for 3 years.

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They didn't think about it. But all they think about is the economy. They only think the country's economy should be maintained their economy.

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So They wanted the people spending money. And don't think about it, maybe some of them already desperate.

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For their life. So we also have different kinds of new policies, something like a training course benefit if the people who do their job or their wage.

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Get down, then they can tag and pay and they can tag free training calls. The government have wanted them to train in their second skill.

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And also if the people who need to take care of their children or their families, they have to stay at home or they are during their home quantity.

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Also can got subsidy. Go ahead. Okay. So I have I want to rest some issues for the case of North Eastern Asians.

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The first one is, the that they found the case. We find that it's still like a productive way of your state.

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And so what is the productive welfare state? That means the government used the welfare benefit. To be a tool to promote their economy.

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So the welfare state, it's just, it's just try to promote the national economies.

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And that's the situation in Northeastern Asia, especially Hong Kong. Taiwan Korea.

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And this country owning much more, only might want to think about how to develop the economies, but still don't think about the people in need.

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And also in the pandemic situation. We can find that this kind of oilfield state regime didn't change at all.

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In the second, the second ones. It's like it's still a selective way of where for your assistance.

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And so accept her career. We don't issue, we sell the issue. A universal welfare. Always need a mentality to get a benefit from the People can only get benefit.

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Goes through fantastic. But during the COVID-19 it's very difficult to submit proof because every time they need to want to apply for the benefit they need to give the government a lot of pull off.

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They need need to prove that their current salary is lower than last year but sometimes it's quite difficult.

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To get different kinds of proof. But for most people, they do need to collect a lot of proof.

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And waiting for a very long time. And it's also caused a lot of demonstrative cost.

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Follow government walker. They're all very busy to deal with this kind of application. So it's also caused a lot of administration and also tax twice.

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But for those families or they are already desperate. They already lose their money. They already Don't have any money, but this kind of benefit have to wait several months to get her money, a little bit of money.

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So people are so angry about the, the government. What does the government do? And, also, the government didn't see the new poor has already created.

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Because during after the COVID-19 the people who become new people, families. They are actually belong to the middle class.

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They are not the traditional poor people. So, okay. So, they have They didn't find that they didn't figure out.

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Already have a new poor people. Already come. The first one is scaling effect. We didn't think about the those kinds of effect poor effect may be transcribed to the next generation.

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And this theories. I actually talking about the employment. May be a long term effect, not a shorter effect.

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Sorry I run out of time. So the fifth is that we need to think about their families. They are children.

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This kind of poor effect will be next next generation maybe they can't accumulate higher human capital. Some of them have to give up their schooling.

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And into the labour market because their families already don't have any money. Okay, thank you very much indeed.

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Okay. We'll do Q&A at the end. Our next presenter is online.

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And You should be

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All right, are you there?

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Yes, of course.

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Okay, and you can you can take can you and I can't pronounce your name if you can introduce yourself and then you're controlling the screen.

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Okay, thank you.

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It's you. Yeah.

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I hope my screen is visible.

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Yes, yeah it looks good.

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Alright, thank you. My name is, I'm speaking to the practice of collective consumption.

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Of housing. In a fragmented social policy context the, this study was informed by the practices of.

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People coming together as community based organizations to acquire land, in urban areas of Vinduk or Namibia if you like.

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And they usually engage the municipality to purchase such land. And, of course, I was interested in the Not only saying collective consumption is good, but to actually engage the the group, a particular group, which I will speak to at later.

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About the daily experiences of that kind of collective practice of collective consumption to see the challenges. And of Deni engaging with the state as a collective and the kind of problems that will emerge from such practices.

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Oh, I will run through this because of time. I look at social welfare in in Namibia, 95 of the constitution.

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Promised to be right. We didn't the context of fairness security and democratic. Participations but the apart from other rights that are in that sections of the constitutions of Namibia There is no express right to housing.

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In Namibia. So what people normally, what Right. What, we have something like indirect right to housing because I to cool 1 4 4 of the consumer provide that any international agreements that the country sign on to will be automatically integrated.

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Into the legal system of Namibia. So most writing on housing as well as taking the social justice perspective.

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About human rights. Using that claims of indirect rights that because the government is a signatory to some of this human housing Right conventions so The government is head liable but there's no express right to house in and that what that means is that Did you, of housing stock is often is left to the market and there are support here and

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there from the government. So that so we typically just glance through slide about the political economy of Nigeria.

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So that is happening within the contest of poverty. One high rate of unemployment and inequality if I just take the upper bound we have 3 perverted lines in I maybe a body I'll talk about means 17.4% of the populations.

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I must want that. The statistics, yeah, is a bit. Dated and But the latest one which I didn't put is more.

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More multi-dimensional poverty which stands at 43% So, Namibia is one of the most unequal society in the world with Geneva.

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0 point 5 6 unemployment rate is I at 34% and We women and youths are disproportionately affected because the rate of unemployed is over 40%.

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Compared to the national there'd be several policy interventions to do with those political economy challenges.

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We have the broad one which is we show 2030. Which also states talks about access to adequate housing water and sanitation but Hey, estimate that 800,000 housing, 80,000 housing backlog is existing.

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Of course, all these things suggest that. It's must be achieved within the contest of prosperity harmony peace and political stability.

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So the vision is carve out in 7 development plans or of progress towards that vision achieving that vision we have 7 I think we are in 5 now and the NDP 4 estimate that there's housing backlog is 300,000 housing units.

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The other key instruments to intervene in the economy for development is a ramped prosperity plan. Which, weeks.

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Also, with poverty, what's more importantly, to build what they call, what it's called the prosperous house.

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Of Namibia. Oh. Housing in Namibia again. Often African housing issues or African is frame.

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From the, African Union agenda, twenty-sixty-three, the Abuja declarations, which places emphasis.

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Or free work to achieve inclusive economic growth, sustainable urbanization for integrated you must estimate. The idea is that housing, the nature of housing and the structure of housing in the economy should be able to contribute.

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Inclusively and to stimulate economic growth. So the National ARCing Policy in A media was adopted in 1991 and it was reviewed in 2,009.

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And it suggests affordable housing. As a development priority. Presently, approximately 25 is 27% of now maybe a house of living shot that those are in for inveraged housing stock.

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Meats often from few sheets. And about 40% of her bank also lives He shots.

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All right. For housing programs that are 4 major housing programs to support of course the market. There is the National Housing Enterprises which provide loans to middle income household.

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This is a loan and there's the build together which also provide loan to low income household who end less than 3,000 a month.

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Of course, the loan is often between 3,000. 40,000. The problem with this is that The cost of houses is in fact higher than what this kind of supports is being provided So there's also a mass house in development program which was launched in 2,019 to provide affordable housing.

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Of course, Policy interventions to stimulate. The productions, create a building of houses and to accommodate for people.

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Then there's the community driven housing programs which which speaks to the location of this paper that we have shark dwellers, federations of Namibia, which is prominent.

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Boy, there are order. Humidity, based organizations who do, who also as a collective try to consume housing.

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Okay, so you must set too much planning we use. Housing, I mean, social my generation historically during the apartheid regime in Namibia.

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Of course, the local building stand that pains to marginalize the poor people now. The standard tends to marginalize the poor people now.

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The standard makes housing very expensive for 4 people now. The standard makes housing very expensive for 4 people to achieve.

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Then there's the national house even though the The location of this paper is because National Housing Police also said the public, the community must be involved in every process of developing.

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How's this stock in the country? 4 we can't create bridge to social policy now maybe I idea of social protections tends to dominate we have a lot of programs that speaks to social protections that disseminated through official professional true audio of program features more in the development discussing the country in practice.

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Government fund their social services such as government funded health care in public hospital primary issue. Primary and secondary schools with lack of comprehensive coordination, an area of fragmented and the exclusive social protections program.

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What we have is a similar reductions of official policy to social welfare. Actions true various social protections program about 8 different functional ministries.

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Give different. cash transfer programs as a form. For example, the popular ones tries to show grants, disability grant.

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Aid grants and subsistence blood which are paid to this Pro Ero. this is small scale research.

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It was, as an asset group of which contain 250 members and the attraction of studying the group in particular is because it emerged organically.

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To access land because they initially set you on the location illegally and when it's bad to start stopping then that they should move.

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They form a group to negotiate with the municipality with and they eventually bought the land as a collective. Data is collected over 40 interviews and the data house were analyzed dramatically.

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You, you, of Namibia, to, decentralized agencies approve this study.

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Oh, it's what I call from illegality to legality. Collective consumption of housing. So these people occupy land illegally and build the sharks like I alluded to in the housing stock in Namibia.

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And Wendy, when Sparta came and said, you need to move because you're occupying this land illegally.

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The former association community associations to start negotiating with the municipality. And after some negotiation you moves back, okay, you can buy the land.

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And they give them a price. So they form a savings group. They contribute over time. And in a year they were able to pay for the land as a collective but Paying for the land is just the easy part of heat because there are not 200 people on the land.

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They need to partition the land, they need to do that. To meet the standard or forebank development in Namibia.

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Of course there's scarcity of urban land, because of urban ruralband migrations that push at that follows, independence in the 1990.

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Of course, there's limitations of market distributions of land because a lot of people most part of it most a lot of people cannot afford to access us through the market system.

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Oh, I at what I did here is to try to get a bit of some themes with voice from the interviews.

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Who, so, as a support to what I'm trying to do here. So there's the Legal Land.

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Occupations and negotiations to purchase. For example, I would just read this one because I'm scared of time.

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We just came here. Then caught down some trees to clear the place and build our houses illegally.

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Anyone can just come here and play space. Where you want to say to and then those that came after us they came who held us, elders are the leaders and leaders in this community to ask for a place.

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Then when they agreed they would Just tell you, no problem, just place on space there. I was at at the other side near that street light.

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That is where I was before. Yeah, when things started to get better. And we went to the municipality to ask for land.

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And how to acquire the land. Then we got our F block. Some people were relocated to growing up.

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Okarine, and somewhere moved to Avana. Those are order for my Alright, please.

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When the land was shared, into plots, according to your name, I moved, I moved. Then came to Butte where I am now, Rebecca.

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So formation of collective consumption CBO contribute to land application. The idea is that what these people could not have done as an individual at the way able to acquire the land.

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But of course it comes with the challenges of managing the group and the leadership of the group and and with the so along the line there's issues of trust the issue of free rider because some people say they did that ship are collecting money they are not paying some of the Members do not understand rates and tax.

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What is the because the rate and past come as they collect it and the leaders you have to they have to contribute and make payments to the municipality.

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So it led to faction in the group so people refuse to pay and I asked them on several interviews at what do they do they said they just shared the amount so it meant people leave I refuse to pay because of the factional five-stage in March, amongst them.

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In the process, it leads to further problem because Our times when they could not pay the little lands that are left This top partitioning and they they bring more people so They are supposed to be 200 and they are now 2 50.

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Which means the size of the land becomes smaller, 200 meter by 200 meter. Unfortunately, the legal standard for an F in ABI is still only by 300.

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So they were they are below and that is to cause them problem later when they try to acquire individual fields titles to those line.

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Oh, of free riders emerged. Oh, Lego free work and access to launch. So.

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I what I've just said now is that because they've tried to survive to raise money to pay the bills to the municipality, they brought in more people.

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The division of the land is now 200 by 200. And to get legal title to land in Namibia you must acquire at least minimum of 300 m².

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A problem. Oh. After at over time the government developed what they call flexible land tenure for urban development.

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And with this also allow for group ownership of land. And, what that does is that The open development you don't have to meet all the standard at a goal for you to be able to acquire land.

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Group are allowed to acquire land and progressively meet the top planning conditions and criterias for in order for that land to be serviced and when all those criteria are being achieved.

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Then they can now apply for individual ties to the land. in the country but the problem that happens that the in fighting that started with these people, slow them down, they could not move.

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Even though they were able to get so services like electricity, individual electricity in their house. Yeah, they could not get water into their house.

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They have public water and. And the they use meta the user prepared to fetch water so the toilet they also have even though they have, but it's not flush inside.

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They have to use manual flushing system but that also Chris problem because that it remind us some some people can afford to So, to, to connect their house to the sewage system.

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Some cannot afford it. I need becomes the problem of the money people who are not money people. Where the leadership tried to remove the public toilet because the food sewage like pipelines now.

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Some people say you can only sell some of them to use the public toilet why few people have toilet inside the house but you have to flush it manually.

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Oh, what happened then is that before this continue and when in 2013 when, I think 2012.

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The standard changes.

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The see way that used to be in the size of the middle width of street and where the sewage pipe will take.

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So didn't change and the partitioning of those lines would not meet the standard. for them to be able to get to document.

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You do your line. That is where they are now because all the problem they emphasized is that they want individual title to their land.

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The problem of paying views together, some people now pay and the executive being castigated to say no you you are corrupt and stuff like that.

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Continues to happen and they will stop. They cannot get individual tied to. On that problem. Mahangana group from illegal land occupational troop corporations were able to purchase land as a collective.

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The main significance gains as a collective by securing some level of services for their block of land such as prepared electricity on individual air.

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Public top waters and sewage line from non-floor. Oh, line for non-flow toilet inside some of their houses.

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Those that kind of afford the inside house to say to for public toilets. The gaze of the associations were sent back by infighting and breakaway factions, which with the leadership at phase of mispriations of their contributions, this led to some members refusing to pay their contribution for.

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For the payment of municipality rates Hopefully became a justification for non payment of contribution and specialty rates and taxes that is collectively paid.

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The faction fight delayed group progress and the standard and standards on building changes which prevented them. From processing individual title to their The practice of this communal associations and then interactions with when Sparta demonstrated the power in the collectively negotiating assets to land despite this legislative limitation.

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Is that the practice of collective concessions will be the roots for accessing basic needs and amenities to improve social well-being.

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In a fragmented social policy contest. Thank you.

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Thank you very much. I hope you can stay online so you can participate in question and answer.

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Of course. Of course.

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Will you still be around? Okay, great. Can you stop sharing your screen please and then?

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Back

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Okay, we have another in-person presentation. Hopefully it'll all work.

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Yeah, that you take it away.

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So. Yeah, okay. Good afternoon everyone. It's so great to meet you here and I'm Mi.

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So I am my little Chinese Chinese name Marble and I'm from the Department of Open Planning and Design.

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Actually I'm a master student from the University of Hong Kong so today I will share a I'm a representative of my supervisor.

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So I will share a topic about our recent research about regional development and power issue. So let's start introducing this one when pairing Magism on under China's targeted party elevations game.

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So actually, I would like to follow this. Contents to deliver today's presentation.

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Just like a proposal way because we have encountered many problems in our research programs. So some results are in the way, but.

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Actually, I, but it's still valuable to present this topic. Yeah, so let's start with the introduction.

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I think the Chinese targeted poverty aviation mode is actually it is a new mode of party aviation mode is actually it is a new mode of power reduction it's, it is MR Solving Individual Power through a process policy implementation system, which include as you can say the process identification, management, assistance and accurate at

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assessment. The local cadres of the government departments are the code of this system and they are paired with in powerish households to help these households.

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To get rid of poverty. The targeting of households and assignments of cardinals last form, this one on one pairing mechanism.

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So I guess that's interesting. And so What is the end of this research? So actually the house 3 aims, the first one to explore the power reduction in effect of matching between the casual resource and the household needs from the perspective of multi-dimensional poverty.

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And the second one, investigate this mechanism between local government charges and in powerish households in this whole TPS game as a macro library.

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And so The family we can understand how the innovation of this matching of this policy is to solve the regional poverty and the role of the countries in the TPS game.

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So I will quickly go through some literature. And actually, I just conclude some points about recent English and Chinese literature related to this TV policy, you can just have a glance of it.

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And most recent English literature explore more details about some lack the part identification and what how this policy is is implemented and as some quality qualitative approach and also the they talk about rural governance.

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Actually. In conclusion, we found that if we find some research gaps, the effect of matching between the countries resources and household needs has never been examined from the perspective of multi-dimensional poverty.

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And also, field studies work on a discussion about innovation of the TP policy of solving regional power through solving the individual poverty first.

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So how, what, well as a research questions that that is obvious? What is the effect of mansion between the resources and households needs to power reduction from the perspective of multi-dimensional poverty?

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How can the STPS gain effectively? Eliminate eliminate regional poverty and realize real radicalization. As coupling pattern and innovative an innovation system of people land industry which is ISIS system in the geography of poverty.

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And we found that our research has 2 are significant oliveanges. Considering the data one is this research, we believe a complete and large scale dataset of impoverished households in one small specific area was used to excess effect of this.

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Mism. And also a more comprehensive research perspective. Provided by this research depends on understanding of individual poverty, regional poverty and rural poverty governance.

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So before junking into the data and masses part. I will talk more about this positive background and hope you can understand more.

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And also propose a theoretical framework to help understand how this research will address the related research questions. So you may wonder how when I'm pairing 1 one pairing system is established.

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The basic idea about this policy is at the village level initially. To be to to be briefly I would say that the Cadres and the Religious Committee will coordinate to identify the power status.

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Of the households and then the county government. We assigned the department paired with the village. According to the staffing level.

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And then the cadre in the department will be paired with households in the village randomly.

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So. And the carriers can deliver the needed assistance through the home visits. To explain the relevant policies to the households according to their needs and to deploy the relevant resources to help them.

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And this is a whole, a system and you can see it's BERRY, a little bit complicated and we can discuss more about this later.

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And So this is so framework we proposed. And we proposed that the matching one current mechanism can finally have impact on a balance of impoverished our system to eliminate the rural regional party through reducing the multi-dimensional parting in these 3 aspects, education, health and living standards.

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And for example, if If the 1, 1, one countries work in some educational departments and also hey.

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The impoverished household who are responsible for this . The Some individuals, they may have some children struggling some educational problems.

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Then, and this can help them and then the generational transmission problem with what we cut off. So that could achieve to the final balance of the system.

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I just to pick one to So explain as an example and so So actually we adopt a case studies. So it chose a county located in, this is a province of main China, Shanghai province and we choose a county out one city and as you can see this this county has about 171 villages so

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I think the most important thing is a procession and they they identify the The part of states has from the very beginning in a very precisely processed way.

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So that's That's very important.

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These are some data sources from the county government were collected for the research and I think this administrative documents gave us so much information to do research and you can have a glance at 8 and also we generate 2 hypotheses.

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The first one are good match between these casual resources and households. Needs leads to a barrack.

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In fact, I'm party elevation from the perspective of multi-dimensional power. And also the hypothesis 2 countries with higher-level ranking can deploy the more resources to help the empoweraged households and therefore can achieve a better individual party innovation outcome to stop reaching poverty.

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So let's take a look at the measurements of a major variables which is the matching I mentioned before yeah this is very important because I need to I need to spend or sometimes to expand the is.

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Actually, we follows a period of studies, master to construct a machine quality index by pairing the countries department with the causes of household poverty.

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Imagine quality index at this stage where we defined it's equal to one if the Do the cargo department has a resources that could address the cause of the households poverty otherwise it is 0 So I think that that is a dummy variable.

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And this household has a good match when the matching quality index is equal to one. And so how to decide whether the department has the resources needed by the household department.

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Are divided in 2 groups, integrated and functional. Oriented groups. The integrated groups include the Department of Information, Agriculture and the Sites, Comprehensive, government, and supervision departments.

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And the former 2 has resources like the information training sites that most household need the rest of the functional departments may have some limits.

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So the line between these 2 blocks shows that the charges from this department and the households with this part cause a good match.

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So that I will use. Confost master to measure the multi-dimensional, part index.

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Of MTI object in power which households. So I escaped this details of a calculation of this part.

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But, due to the time limit, but, but I think these k variables are, conclude as, follows it can be referred to into the relative literature so we use matching quality as a major independent variables.

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Howgeries and households characteristics and some policy domains as a control variables to construct a your fixed effect model.

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So I think this information can be. This data, yeah, this data can be.

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Constructed from our yeah, and also. Of course they affect our good match quality between countries resources and the household needs on the multi-dimensional power index.

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Expected to exam. So that's our expecting results. I just do a quick and brief introduction. And besides, automotive measurement of the dependent variable and matching quality will be used as a robustness check for example can measure this matching quality through the contribution of the department adopted by the

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By the previous study also we are planning to test the machine quality of this parent mechanism. To income poverty so because the recent literature suggests that the combine the income poverty and multi-dimensional poverty will give us a more complete picture.

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Of the effect of this. Unique Chinese poverty reduction policy. Then another independent variable using the FGT index to measure income poverty will also be tested.

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Finally, some potential mechanisms can be observed through the classification. Of the poverty level and cause of households.

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Even though the wage difference as header generally to test. So her is recap and major references and that is all for today and welcome to end question and comments.

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So I will upload and share the full paper later if we finish the whole result has in the summer later in this summer.

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So many thanks for your listening today and these other major references. Yeah, thanks.

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Exciting work. Okay, we've got one more to go. And we're lucky also to have a Mia.

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Here in person.

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Oh.

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It's missing. Are you?

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Thank you, Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity and as a participant of this RC.

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I would like to start my presentation through an anecdote like along with our friends, we were in Japan and while traveling in the Metro, we, He was surprised to see that like a 90 percentage of the passengers they were not occupying the seats and they were relaxed cool and they were traveling

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casually. And he asked me one question so the nature if you have been to India or you have heard about India you You could see one thing is that whenever any kind of public transport people try to use Either it is a train, local train, metro or bus, immediately large number of the passengers, they will rush into the coach and try

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to sit here and in there. In buses also sometimes through the window, they will throw some kind of trouble or any kind of their things so that they can occupy their seats.

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So then he asked me that why it is so in Japan and how it is like that in India, then what I realized one thing is that because people are sure about their entitlement about the access to resources that is why there is no say kind of panic or any kind of anxiety where as in a society you have a lot of population

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and resources are scarce then you try to find out or figure out various kind of strategy and tactics that how you can have some kind of access to it.

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So coming back to my presentation that the title of my presentation is sing like a citizen welfare provisions and negotiation are poor in everyday life in is a kind of case storage of northeast India space particularly they are some state of this northeastern region of India.

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So I have adapted this title from like Jim Scott like sing like a state And after Jim Scott's work like Stuart Cooper's and others they published a book titled Seeing the State.

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Be governance and governmentality in India where they have also talked about various mechanisms how poor people they face the state in while getting various kind of welfare professions.

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So my case is from a multi ethnic society where various ethnic community like Nepali, a border a tribal community, asamis, then Bengali Hindu, Bengali Muslim, various minority communities and also immigrant labor those who work in the tea garden area of some those who have come from various parts of

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India, like the Shotana plant of India, they also decide. So thereby it's gives a very peculiar kind of formation like multi-ethnic and plurid strict society.

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As you know, the over the period like how the the Indian context the state has adopted various mechanism to develop the welfare policy and mechanisms but mostly it has changed or it has been changing since the poster 91 like the advent of newly liberalism or new labor policy So then what we have seen from my previous presenters like the housing

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facility or any kind of welfare provision we have seen that from the major argument is that how the state is trying to develop the welfare mechanisms for the gain for the economic development.

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It is not purely for social development rather the target is economic development and true they are trying to generalize this social development.

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Here in this case, when the large number of populations reside and they try to form or they try to provide certain things then that is not on the purely basis of some kind of formal mechanism that both formal and informal mechanisms that work in a country like India.

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That's why it is very interesting and intriguing to see that in the black and white or pen and paper one cannot formulate any policy.

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Particularly either any like the public policy or social policy in the context of India and my core argument is that If we want to have any kind of robust social policy in the context like India and particularly in the context of ASAM, we need to look at people's perspective participation.

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We have to look at the state through the lens of the poor. So that is why I have titled my presentation is like seeing like a citizen.

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So this Multi-think correct characteristics of the society give rise to the plurality of governance including formal semi-firmal informal so there is a kind of interesting way how people or the community members they connect with the state through an intermediary.

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In the local language it is called as the law or in English one can call it as a broker or like an intermediary.

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So here in this case, Though the idea of Scott's idea has been criticized by many that this scene like a state, it gives us an important and interesting framework to look at states idea of homogenizing people.

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As I have mentioned, there are multi-athrics society, pluristic society, but state always try to devise a policy that one size fits all and try to they implement something which is sometimes problematic and gives unproductive regime.

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Similarly, in this thing like a citizen that the idea is to look at how citizens they try to negotiate, manipulate many were the rules and regulation of the state in their for their own need and for their own aim.

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So popularly as you know the focus ideas of governmentality is very very popular in various parts of the world.

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It is in the fashion. But at the same time if you can look at critically the whole idea of governmentality, it is not always that state can have the domination of over people.

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Even poor citizens poor people have their own way, own mechanism to suffer or to manipulate and exert their agency through various informal networks and try to bend the rules and regulation which is implemented or formulated by the government agencies.

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So in this case, I am trying to look at how people in their everyday life they speak to various mechanisms and try to develop certain things which will help their community help their member through various kind of networks.

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And networks are dependent on various kind of affinities. It may be religious, it may be ethnic, it may be based on the political party system.

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It sometimes it may be based on gender, language, so and so forth. So sometimes Only one diamonds may walk, sometimes the articulation of various dimension in a multiplayer manner, it works giving it a very complex kind of situation.

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So in the agency who they try to create their own political sphere where they try to manage the whole idea of the provision.

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So in this case I'm looking at 2 schemes. One is called as Przan Mathri, Maththru Gandanai Yoguna that is roughly translated into Prime Minister's maternity benefit schemes where to compensate the mother or to work for the undernutrition or the women though those

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who cannot get proper nutrition. So one group of workers employed by government in a contractual basis they called as a WW, unknown body worker and Asa this accredited souls social health activist These people, they work and try to Register those beneficiaries and it has 3 installments first interments is per 1,000 profits

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where the within the 1 50 days of the last men's period and the second one is ₹2,000 that is the 180 days of the LMP and the third one is ₹2,000 after the childbirth or lactating mother can evil this.

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So, it is all together in 3 instrument we have 5,000 on the top of that government of India has another scheme called Js why Germany Soracha Ojana means the mothers the safety scheme for which they provide around ₹1,000.

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So altogether it comes to ₹6,000. And another scheme is what I would like to consider is that Prhhan Manti Avasiogena that is called as Prahan Monthi Avasiogena that is called as PMAI, Avasiogina, that is called as PM AY, Gramin, earlier research called Indra

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Avasuja. Roughly translate into like Prime Minister. Roughly translate into like prime minister's home schemes like the housing schemes like they give it to the poor people.

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So,'s home schemes like the housing schemes like they give it to the poor people. So the's home schemes like the housing schemes like they give it to the poor people.

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So there's the puck, the kaca house those who have catch a house with a wall like say one or a 0 or 2 world or they can get up to 1.2 luck rupees or in the plain reason and the Hilary is a mountain region, they can get up to 1.3 luck through

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piece. So if you look at this context of getting these schemes One can see that how even those are not poor people, they can aheld this scheme through various kind of tactics.

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So even it has come to our notice during the fieldwork that even school teacher and political judge are powerful, they can manipulate the rule, they can manipulate the interpretation, they have access to this kind of housing scheme whereas those who really need it, the needy and beneficiary, they have been kept out of the list.

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Interestingly, this is also related to the elections. So in Indian context, elections are considered as various people by the Carnival, by festival and various kind of it has a kind of various dimensions.

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So basically in India 3 kinds of election happens one is a national level called parliamentary election in the state level it is assembly election and its local level called Pancha liberal election.

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So, people in this vernacular area or in the remote area or the rural area for them, election is a kind of festival.

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Especially what I mentioned, the tea garden workers or tea garden laborer who came from the eastern part of India and they brought by the British colonizers and they have been here and they leave a very difficult life.

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So the inside the tea garden the facilities are very less and they only concerned about the the managers or the worker or tea garden management about the work and the provisions are very less.

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Even till now means until last year they used to get only ₹85 in a day for 8 h of labor which roughly into 1.2 $5 like in a day.

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So and they used to get like labor lines housing is a very poor condition without proper hygiene hygiene and other like access to proper toilet facilities and other things.

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So the living condition is very difficult and they are considered that I argue that that they are the most deprived people all over the world as they lived in a kissed or bounded or like contentment kind of thing.

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They read in a confined zone. So various political parties, they have both banks and they have the patronage.

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So though other people those who leap outside the tea garden they can have access to various welfare schemes whereas these people they live inside the tea gardens the state consider them they are the people from the tea garden and tea garden work or see tea garden management or owners, they do not actually allow the state to penetrate inside them because they might

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think that they can lose out on the power of the control over that. So in this case, What we have seen, the elections become very important in in the Indian context where the city's density so that it was like over globally so that in some that the citizens who are outsider who are citizens who are foreigners there have been a

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contestation. So the election plays out like it plays a very important role in people's life that they think that there is a propaganda that if you do not cast your vote your citizens will be taken away.

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You will be devout from your citizenship. That is why if you go back to the data, the one of the highest percentage pulling percentage in in India will be from that area of Assam where the diversity or multi-ethnic society they decide.

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The the tea garden community workers like they are considered as the state comment as T-rive. And the state considered them as a homogeneous group whereas they come from different caste different tribes and though in India it's a provision that the civil tribe those who are scheduled they are given certain kind of benefits by the government whereas these

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people are fighting and trying something as for their entitlement and they have not yet disappeared. The problem with again coming back to the whole idea of again bringing you back into the why to discuss the whole idea of election is that the election during the election the broker or the dalal or the intermediaries they promise these community members that if they win they will help

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them in getting those facility. Whereas after when the election is over they have to approach to different other brokers to get certain things under.

334
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So PMM, why the this maternity benefit scheme they have though it's their social protection scheme and it wants to help the needy they are certain bottlenecks what are the bottlenecks that one has to this is considered as DBT, direct benefit transfer or the beneficiary will get some case amount directly into

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the bank account. That means condition is that one has to have the bank account. If you do not have bank account, you cannot receive the money.

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And to open the bank account in India, you have to have various documents. And as we know, the poor people or the marginalized communities, they lack dock documents in many cases.

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That is why there is a tension between the implementation of the scheme where they cannot, the majority of the population, though it is targeted in universal scheme, it cannot attribute that universal status due to the documentation problem.

338
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Then there are the issues through which it is the gender dimension comes where it is meant for the women but the male folks they try to control the money and there again there are research which I do not have here this week to discuss that issue.

339
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Again, the MIS system, the management information system is a problematic thing here because all the data has to be uploaded there and in India because of the administrative problem there till date after the implementation of our event of the scheme of around 5 6 years there are a problem with the classification of block, reason, village area.

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So thereby the huge beneficiary will come under which block that that has been a kind of contestation and debate and thereby people cannot have access to it.

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Then as I mentioned that the housing benefit scheme also had a certain kind of problem through which that we even a school teacher, contractor, connected people get the benefit and thereby the local or needy people they do not get access to that.

342
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So bringing this together, the social protection scheme in the context of India and particularly in northeastern India through the KSM, what I am trying to propose is the how in everyday life people they negotiate with the state.

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Queried this state knows how to implement the rules and regulation whereas it is not full-. But how the poor people through their own mechanism own an anxious, they connect to the state through various mechanisms.

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One simple example is that they if we go by the whole idea of Para Chatters's political society.

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Though political society his formulation is very popular in the book where he proposed the idea of the politics of the govern in Indian society where I am taking this example, it may not be always true.

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There is a contestation between various communities. And political society they have to as a organized community they have to organize together to Claim to have connectivity with the state to demand certain things.

347
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Where it state tries to differentiate between different group on the basis of community though it is not very direct way in a very subtle way state has various mechanisms.

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To differentiate between the various communities. The present government, the India government, they have the provisions to give or to promote various festivals.

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So what happens? They try to build certain temples, they try to build certain kind of religious places or they promote certain religious festivals through which they the majority grew, they could identify themselves as something powerful and the minority group where they can be marginalized or they could be powerless.

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But at the same time, when it comes to the benefit, when it comes to the access to the provisions or social welfare mechanism, it is seen that even at the poorer of the per per people they have their own willpower to struggle in the everyday life for to struggle in the everyday life for to struggle in the everyday life for

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to survive. It's a game of survival in the everyday life for to survive. It's a game of survival in a way that to survive.

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It's a game of survival in a way that how even what we have seen in a way that how even what we have seen during the COVID period that India could manage certain things and the most like people who suffered is the people in the COVID period that India could manage certain things and the most like people who suffered is the people, the daily

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wage workers or the people who suffered is the people, the daily wage workers or the people in the tea gardens because they people who suffered is the people, the daily wage workers or the people in the tea gardens because they were stopped even though they could survive because their will to struggle their will to communicate with the state through the language of informality.

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So here what I would like to try to propose is that it is not always productive to look at people through the lens of formal rules, policies, schemes and regulation, rather we need to look at people's cultural behavior.

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Practice their affinity their everyday language so the language of the governance by the state will be different from the language of the governance of the people who will be different.

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So thereby we need to convert bring a meeting point of this language and create a convergence of the language of governance.

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So my main issue main point is that we need to create a language of governance. Through which that language would be understood and implemented both by the community and the state.

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With this I land, thank you.

359
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I'd like to thank all of the presenters. So I'm gonna do my best here to draw a couple of the presenters.

360
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So I'm gonna do my best here to draw a couple of lines between the papers. I like to congratulate all of the authors.

361
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There is actually quite a few similarities I see in the paper and I actually think the order the order worked out really well.

362
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The reason I think the order worked out really well is that Finlay kind of opened out what I think was a conceptual problem of we have a problem of new poverty and what you hate to use the World Bank term but they talk about the missing middle so there's this new poverty that hasn't been identified and there's

363
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no there's no easy solutions to it. And so I think the cases of Namibia and China and India to use your words.

364
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I mean, you released all of the cases really showed that the big gap and then big policy challenge is that there's no such thing as this state trying to develop one size.

365
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There's no one size fits all. Solutions to any of the problems they were identified in any of the cases.

366
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And then the China case is really interesting because it's a highly technocratic example of a potential solution.

367
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To what all of the papers identified and that solution is this really one-on-one pairing where you have a really sorry, this might be wrong interpretation, but it looks like it's a really rigid structure that comes top down and then it meets bottom up and you have this you know, kind of ideal solution.

368
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Of of this one on one pairing which is like the Namibia case as well is really an example of an innovative policy solution.

369
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The problem is though that all the authors identified that the big challenge is that we clearly need local solutions.

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And bottom-up involvement but I think you guys have identified a new concept which I thought about from the Nimbia case in the India case.

371
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I think we could write a new concept about policy anxiety. From a policy perspective. So the pausing anxiety is that you know you have these local so you have these local these local policy innovations and solutions but then as the Namibia case shows Who's steering the policy?

372
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It seems to be that we still, that's what the China case tried to show isn't it totally again very technocratic non-democratic structured way show is that even when we have innovative local policy solutions that are that recognize that diversity and are not the one size fits all as we saw in the

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Namibia case you still need somebody steering it because when we have these kind of bottom up top-down palsy solutions the administrative burden and all of the authors pointed it out and and the Chinese you talked about that Mavo in in the China case is that it's expensive.

374
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So the administrative burdens are high. But then as we see also in the in the Namibia case and I work on Nepal is that you have to have high levels of policy capacity in terms of local bureaucracy in order to reduce this policy anxiety at the local level.

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So I think all of the cases have shown a really good job. I think there's Tons of parallels and there's definitely challenges that we've identified as a panel and the cases have shown some innovative solutions, but we still have further challenges.

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In the sense that when we're talking about in in developing contexts we The policy solutions have to be practical and there's still a big gap in terms of how to address that practicality from a in the context of reducing, is Fennings show decreasing tax revenue and so we have decreased money we need increased policy capacity there's

377
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an administrative burden and so it's a huge challenge so I like to thank all of the authors and the audience.

378
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And we have time for Q&A if anybody would like to ask some questions. Thank you everybody.

379
01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:14.000
Yeah, go ahead. Would you go to the microphone just so everybody?

380
01:20:14.000 --> 01:20:25.000
Thank you very much. Jimmy. Based in South Africa. Just for a, you know,

381
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Why do you? Call this new productivism. I mean, I like to have Because I think there has been a problem We coming from the African context.

382
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You know. From the standardized social policy scholarship in especially in the European context.

383
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Where there's there's some omeni ovarian flesh, what I call over inflation.

384
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Of the social protection task of social policy. When in fact if you look at you know policy makers themselves.

385
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I mean you go back to what we call it. William Beveridge. People talk about the 1942 reports but people forget 1,944 report.

386
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Just something, If you go to, you know, Avan, Guna Milda. Mean something as simple as you know, food, what do you call it, scheme he explicitly linked it to employ to to the economic output in in the rural areas, you know.

387
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Sort of Sweden does not have to as subsidized you know the export of those, er, what you can be used in schools.

388
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You know. They, so the, and I know Damon was the one, you know, they come out description.

389
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Characterizing this station as something as product based, you know, welfare or something. But that's that's a problem of the way in which you know European Social Policy Scholarship came to defiance social policy as something distinct from economic disconnect from economic policy and emphasized this notion.

390
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Of his intrinsic value, you know. Yeah, by, inflicting.

391
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The social what we call it protection tasks. Second question, you know, if you don't mind if not for us.

392
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Dr. Momo, you know. I mean, I

393
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You seem to assume that the We forward is the accommodation of this. Local self-provisioning.

394
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A 1,000. And take the What do you call it? What do you call fragmented social policy architecture?

395
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In Namibia for granted. But without addressing the macro level policy making and policy intervention.

396
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The Cannas, you know.

397
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They stop here really, you know, of of people trying to get housing. In this particular context remain so What about an engagement with actually shifting?

398
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The social policy architecture. In Namibia. It's it's not impossible. Just looking at the shifting landscape in the health policies in Africa is an example that, you know, public campaign and intervention can move.

399
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And social police architecture. Thank you. Thank you.

400
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So.

401
01:23:51.000 --> 01:24:12.000
Thank you for the question. I think But that is this wheel field is not I coded. It's based on the You know that is being Andersen they have a publication in year, 1,990.

402
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Develop the welfare state into 3 kinds of wave field regime. And, the Ian holidays.

403
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Have a writing in year 2,000. And he find that some countries in Eastern Asia are not belong to these 3 kinds of welfare regime.

404
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:47.000
They belong to the productive list where we will stay and they all have something in common. That the welfare only a tool for economic development.

405
01:24:47.000 --> 01:25:11.000
And there is kind of, text, also called capitalist welfare state. And in my paper I tried to say that Yes, we are the that kind of productive welfare still even during the pandemic with your behavior like a productive way of your stay.

406
01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:23.000
Yeah. So, let. I know it's not good, yeah, but we can say each kind of welfare state which kind of words they are good or not.

407
01:25:23.000 --> 01:25:31.000
This just the, you know, the video in those kind of come true. OK, thank you.

408
01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:46.000
Yeah, you've got to hear about the thing of the micropens. But only if you want to respond to your question.

409
01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:47.000
Hi.

410
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Abdullah said the voice was very low. I cannot hear it clearly. Are we if it can be repeated please?

411
01:25:49.000 --> 01:26:00.000
Can you come up and just repeat it maybe maybe in here? Hello? Hi. Yeah, oh, okay.

412
01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:03.000
He's better now.

413
01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:18.000
My name is Jimmy. Can you just go to the podium and then you can speak to the

414
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Oh

415
01:26:23.000 --> 01:26:35.000
I think it's it's afternoon on your side you know I said that you concluded by taking for granted.

416
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That the what you call it, you know, when they, what they call the fragmentary social policy architecture in Namibia is invariant.

417
01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:58.000
But we see the what I call pathologist may be the negative way of looking at it but what you describe is a form of self-provisioning.

418
01:26:58.000 --> 01:27:10.000
And what you see immediately. Is the inefficiencies and the complication that comes from you know the fragmentation.

419
01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:23.000
Isn't it possible to actually scale up? The vision. You know of moving the needle.

420
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With what do you call it both scholarship and and advocacy of the Namibian social policy architecture itself.

421
01:27:34.000 --> 01:27:37.000
I don't know if you understand my my question.

422
01:27:37.000 --> 01:27:39.000
I understand. Thank you.

423
01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:46.000
Okay, alright.

424
01:27:46.000 --> 01:28:01.000
Well, I think it's That should be the directions. Or the context. The The emphasis on social protections is huge.

425
01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:09.000
And things like education, for example, health. How? It's just government can just do a beach.

426
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:27.000
And, So part of the problem is the social policy architectures that. So, have group has to try to help themselves.

427
01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:39.000
So in the contest of those architectures that will not pay attention to the approach challenges, social welfare challenges of people.

428
01:28:39.000 --> 01:28:48.000
The organization, a group like, the 2 Hangana group, try to still assess housing in that context.

429
01:28:48.000 --> 01:29:01.000
Of course there are challenges because of. Did not for manager of the organizations and the inability of the leadership to enforce some of their what they have in their constitutions.

430
01:29:01.000 --> 01:29:15.000
Of course, it could be if it can be scaled up. There is the Sharp Bowers,ations which is like been organized by a replication of our international NGO.

431
01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:31.000
Which is a bit regular but my interest is those ones that actually develop Organically, I see a response to lack of housing because there's there was high urban rural band migration after independence.

432
01:29:31.000 --> 01:29:40.000
And these sharks start developing because people cannot afford. To get to rent proper housing in the cities.

433
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So they have end up in the fringe of the city in the former segment and building sharks for them to exist.

434
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:53.000
What actually happens that they cleared the bush in 1,998. And they were there.

435
01:29:53.000 --> 01:30:03.000
And they had that when we did not clear the bushes, when Sparty was quiet, then we went there, cleared, do you put ourselves?

436
01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:11.000
That we own the land, you are finding land in Legal. But the interesting thing is that The municipalities.

437
01:30:11.000 --> 01:30:22.000
Flexible enough to negotiate. So I think from the experience, other, self, group, I have been much, to consume housing stock.

438
01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:47.000
And the the flexible, Latin system actually announce, allow organizations to form. A, a, a, a, group, what they call it, and then we they will now buy land as a block and they will subsequently share survey it so it's a gradual process of leading to free hole titles to the

439
01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:59.000
lines of course there are other challenges for example my engagement with the municipal officials. We're suggesting that they find that having smaller group.

440
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:16.000
Is more manageable and more efficient than the big one like having to around 50 group. In in in the in the association but I take your comment that Do you have focusing on the scholarship is to keep engaging?

441
01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:25.000
That's the architectures of the social policy contests needs to improve to facilitate Delivering social worker.

442
01:31:25.000 --> 01:31:28.000
Thank you.

443
01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:38.000
Thank you. Do we have any questions? Do you want to come to the mic? Sweet.

444
01:31:38.000 --> 01:31:49.000
Hello, so my name is Larry and my question is directed to the last presenter especially because I was so interested by your introduction.

445
01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:57.000
Oh those that are entitled to resources. So when we talk about the poor, I would like to further interrogate.

446
01:31:57.000 --> 01:32:12.000
Who are the poor and from where I sit I think from from us coming from Patriarch society I think it's the women who are poor And unfortunately, that may not be solved by just policy formulation.

447
01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:26.000
Because why the women are poor are deep-seated. Qatar and Degas structures. That keeps him poor so What do you suggest if governance and policy formulation.

448
01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:51.000
Alone may not resolve that and also that goes for the lady. During Corvid, the new poor we saw were the women what did you say about that?

449
01:32:51.000 --> 01:33:13.000
Yeah, have a question for the person. It's related with the previous question. You spoke about governmentality in Buddhist idea and we also spoke about you know how the World Bank tilt will it impact the social policies and basically for of poverty.

450
01:33:13.000 --> 01:33:18.000
Okay.

451
01:33:18.000 --> 01:33:29.000
Do I take those 2? Yeah, I'm gonna start and then go to Disney.

452
01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:45.000
Thank you for your questions. See, the answer is there in your question itself. When you ask like about the petriarchy, patriarchy itself is like we don't know how many years old the structure is all about.

453
01:33:45.000 --> 01:34:02.000
Even if you see in a like a country like India like knowingly or unlikely majority of women are they themselves they practice the patriarchal likes a culture or domination because of various regions like complicated or complex regions.

454
01:34:02.000 --> 01:34:24.000
So, now this the PMM BY, that is, It is targeted for women. But you know when it comes to the benefit that when the benefit is transferred to the account then it is not always that the women can use that amount.

455
01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:30.000
It will be decided by either by the like say father or mostly in the most of the cases by their husbands.

456
01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:49.000
So it is a deep rooted problem that is patriarchy which to say one day one year or even 10 years so in one decade it cannot be to my personal like view it cannot be solved it has to be dismantled through various practices.

457
01:34:49.000 --> 01:35:03.000
Ed, what personally I feel in a country like India, majority of the policymakers They are people who run the organs of like the state court on court, they themselves are men and And we have seen the rise of this right wing governments in various parts of the world.

458
01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:28.000
So more the like the right-wing governments like say they are running the country more they are referring to this petty acanager so I don't know how to break it and what kind of policies should be developed but what you Ask, it's a very, very, very difficult question that the state can handle with because

459
01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:56.000
those who are preparing the What is it? They themselves are into the The second question is that yes, like this hoodbank politics, it influence the social policy up to a larger extent like we all know that pork barrel politics well the particular government if they are running they they are clientele they would try to develop a policy which

460
01:35:56.000 --> 01:36:11.000
will help their client channel where but if the other community and group they are not they are clientele or they are not like say falling into their boat bank bank, then that would sometimes may out of sleep.

461
01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:25.000
Suppose you take the example of making one health center or to implementation of some kind of say irrigation facility in particular area or any kind of old storage for that matter if a reason is like a vegetable contribution or other cultivation.

462
01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:48.000
So, it should. They in a place where everyone can access but if you look at the government politics that the policy maker or the politicians they will try to influence the policy makers or the like implementation agencies like bureaucrats to put that in particular reason where they can have further like they can strengthen data with the clientele

463
01:36:48.000 --> 01:36:53.000
or the board banks.

464
01:36:53.000 --> 01:37:06.000
Thank you for the question. When I, yes, we do see that we do find that woman those, much more woman knows their job.

465
01:37:06.000 --> 01:37:23.000
Not only in Taiwan but also in the whole world in American or in Korea in Japan and because during the pandemic people don't go to the pandemic people don't go to tours and the people don't go to a restaurant.

466
01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:29.000
And this kind of service has the job in the service actions. They are belong to women's kind of job.

467
01:37:29.000 --> 01:37:59.000
So actually in the whole world women are the major people who lose their job. But we also see that in the future we need to award about the homeless employment because We find that the technology because the new technology already, develop after the Coffee.

468
01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:14.000
19 we become more digital. Or a less contact technology. So women in the labor market, they are much more like to walk.

469
01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:32.000
That the people to people contact. Kind of walk but in the future maybe we They a lot of job don't don't depend on woman's contact that kind of job maybe looser in the loose.

470
01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:39.000
So, yes, we find that, the, the, in the future, there may be a risk.

471
01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:46.000
For women's employment. But when I'm talking about a new new pool, let's we can find the whole family becoming new pool not only because women do their job.

472
01:38:46.000 --> 01:39:02.000
Also because a lot of men also lose their job and the so the whole family face the problem of So it's nothing about woman or man.

473
01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:13.000
They lose their job. This what I just observed. Thank you.

474
01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:19.000
We have any more questions?

475
01:39:19.000 --> 01:39:28.000
I'm just asking, who has no questions? Right. 5 but it's it's Mahara from South Africa.

476
01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:44.000
And I think this question goes to all of you in terms of social policy. You know, experts. It seems like most of the time when we imagine thinking about social policy in general We always have employment.

477
01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:54.000
At the centre of thinking or unemployment. Since we know now that AI at some point is going to replace most of these jobs.

478
01:39:54.000 --> 01:40:09.000
How do we begin to shift? Are thinking about social policy. Outside thinking about opportunities around employment or access to money through employment.

479
01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:17.000
You know. I know you want to talk about the state but it seems like at the center most of the time.

480
01:40:17.000 --> 01:40:32.000
You think about how people access things for example there's COVID not not employment and therefore we need the state to take over when does unemployment become the norm?

481
01:40:32.000 --> 01:40:42.000
In social policy making. I don't know if you if you get me. Stadium.

482
01:40:42.000 --> 01:40:59.000
Yeah, maybe make a quick response. I think, I think the, I think the most, policy from China, the government focused on them.

483
01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:20.000
I think the center of the social policies more focused on the like welfare Not only the employment so for my from our research we just find that because for example the Chinese government will You mentioned the AI.

484
01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:37.000
I will replace some. In ation or employment but I think From my memories Chinese government, they try to keep some job opportunities.

485
01:41:37.000 --> 01:41:49.000
Like, because, because this job opportunity will be replaced by a, but they need to maintain a more stable society.

486
01:41:49.000 --> 01:42:06.000
So they keep this some a lot of technique job opportunities. So I think the the starting point is from the I think is from the Hello, the paper's buffer, basically, the pause benefit, the more poor people.

487
01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:15.000
Because in China there is a large population. So I think I just Just think, some.

488
01:42:15.000 --> 01:42:24.000
Single fax related to your question. Yeah, just some. Salt, maybe not some comments, yeah.

489
01:42:24.000 --> 01:42:28.000
Yeah, thank you.

490
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:35.000
Specifically Yeah.

491
01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:47.000
Maybe it's a very like say recent and also complicated thing in many places the market is now dominant in terms of the market is now dominant in terms of the use of AI.

492
01:42:47.000 --> 01:42:56.000
But if you look at this, informal sectors or the labor market in in the context or especially in India.

493
01:42:56.000 --> 01:43:11.000
I cannot visualize how it is going to play out this, this AI thing. But as of now the most of the things like in the private entrepreneurs and the corporations they have started using AI for like mostly in the soft steel sector.

494
01:43:11.000 --> 01:43:29.000
But in the most of this, like say in informal sectors or labor plantation age of now we cannot visualize its rule and how it can be related to the like say community or market and as you said that we stood a different connecting this issue apart from state.

495
01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:39.000
I'm not bringing the issue of state here. So that will be my response. Whatever I understood from your person.

496
01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:40.000
Hello?

497
01:43:40.000 --> 01:43:46.000
Yeah, do you have something? Is it? Oh.

498
01:43:46.000 --> 01:43:55.000
Oh, okay. Oh, thank you. I think one, is a thought. I this stage, however.

499
01:43:55.000 --> 01:43:59.000
I think

500
01:43:59.000 --> 01:44:12.000
Is the structure of productions that we change, not necessarily. Production. I think we talked of employment not because for employment sake at the end of the day is about production.

501
01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:24.000
And I think if we are as changes structure production in society. That's, it means structure of employment or structure productions we change.

502
01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:36.000
In view of the emergence or rarely function in our daily lives. II think It's not a substitution for productions.

503
01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:49.000
It means the way we produce us change and when we make reference to employment a social policy at the end of the day, the final cost.

504
01:44:49.000 --> 01:44:51.000
Of employment is production. I think Hey, we know substitute production. If we only change in way we produce as societies.

505
01:44:51.000 --> 01:44:59.000
Thank you.

506
01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:12.000
Thank you very much. I think we can wrap it up with that. Thank you everybody for participating. It was a good panel. You had one more question?