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Fabio Santos (he/him): Great. Should I start? Yes, amazing. thank you. Gland. And thanks for everyone present. Welcome everybody for Part 2

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Fabio Santos (he/him): of this session, historical sociology as relational memory. I'm not going to give a broader introduction. I already did that in the first part. so hop hoping that some of you were there. But really, The idea is to reconcile memory studies and historical sociology, or to conceive of historical sociology, as also in compassing memory studies.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): And so for this project, or for this agenda, we already had jasmine and apha in the first session, and now we continue with a Rachel shu Krisyanti Sahou, an Amelina Jana Shifa man repeat us and medium threshold.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): for this second session, though. Anna Amelina, unfortunately, cannot be with us for very good reasons, but she has her team presenting their collective thoughts. So

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Fabio Santos (he/him): the format is the following, we will have approximately 20 min. of presentations per presentation.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and I suggest to collect questions at the very end, to allow for ample time to think the presentations together also for the presenters to collect to to to be in a dialogue. and thank you also, Glenda, for helping out with the moderation that is so amazing. that relatively, spontaneously, you agree to to co-host this session. Thank you.

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Fabio Santos (he/him):  I will just give very brief introductions to each speaker before they speak. So, starting with Rachel to now she's

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Fabio Santos (he/him): a professor at the Mcmaster University in Hamilton, Canada, and her research expertise and interest lies in globalization, immigration, transnationalism, HIV and Aids, global health

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Fabio Santos (he/him): aging and pensions, social health policy, culture, gender, sexuality and time temporalities. your research has appeared in many more journals than I can mention here. So please, everyone have a look at our website. And I've seen that you're currently principal investigator of the project globalization time and nostalgia, transnational, conjunctual analysis and

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Fabio Santos (he/him): many more projects before again, please do have a look at the website. And without without further ado I would say that, Rachel, the floor is yours.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): It's trying to. Yeah, it floating here we go.

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Thank you. So much fabulous and glander for making this possible So today's presentation is entitled Nostalgia in times of Uncertainty! As you know, this is kind of my background paper for my book project, and also the current project mentioned by Fabulous!

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Which one is moving

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come, as to yet, aerial Sims doesn't work

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as a nature. it's not working neither.

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First.

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okay, I use this one. So in today's presentation. I will first introduce the background, and I will show a little bit about it. Now to go lenses, and then I will directly go to 3 cases.

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But again, though this project is so complicated again during this 20 min, I will have to make it kind of simpler. And but hopefully we do a little bit justice to the project per se. But again, when we're talking about Nas Taja, there's a different form of Nas Taja, such as so Nastasia is a form of emotional or existential distress caused by environmental changes.

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But again, when we're talking about in the current political context, this type of Nastasia. We're not picked up for use as a to for social mobilizing, and so on, at least a from political perspective.

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you are familiar with all those posters. In 3 different case countries, United States, the Uk. And also China. All those are kind of viewed as something related to will for Nasaja.

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So in recent years Nas Taja has become visible across political regions and geographers. it's exemplified by, for example, the global Britain. brick state slogan the trampion, make American great again in the Us. And China's Chinese dream in China.

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So the rise of Nastasia as a public sentiment, an articulation relating to time not necessarily linger.

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and as a tool of political mobilization in the current phase of globalization, in build, with uncertainties, raises questions about the relationship between globalization and nostalgia. So basically, my bigger projects are kind of interesting looking at the politics of nostalgia rhetoric in different

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context. And also to say to those kind of Nasaja rhetoric. So what kind of a story about globalization? Each country trying to tell And also in the end, I want to link them through a transnational links. And to answer the last question, what does this mean for globalization?

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So first, I just explain the the concept of Nas Taja. Of course Nastasia is an emotional reaction, characterized by a sense of not loss, dislocation, and all homelessness.

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But I would argue that nostalgia is less about a place like for immigrants right the left of their home. They're for their like, not started, but it's more about time so particularly. nostalgia of a perceived or imagined golden age, in which the gulf between past and present can be breached

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once desired, so self can be accommodated, and there is no longing for any other time space. So if we look at nostalgia as a social, cultural, discursive construction, we were usually look at 3 major components. So, but basically, it's talking about the idea of historical declines, all kinds of senses related to loss, either individual Ptolemy or as a a country lost

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of the identity, and so on.

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So. But again, on my final interest is about globalization rather than Nas Taja. And I started with more like my entry point to look at a globalization. So I consulted also who started the relationship between those 2 like I round out, Robinson was one of the few who started a relationship between this 2.

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For him, globalization is the primary route of Nasaja. So it's coast to Nasaja. So this nostalgic fillings or phases of globalization.

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he particularly referred Nas Taja as something called will for Nas Taja, because capitalist modernity has brought about a lot of changes in people's life in a society so, therefore generated a feeling of extrangement and considerable concern with national identity. So in return, and this kind of a political driven, Nas Taja was kind of used to as a form of cultural politics within the nation states to mobilize people on the society.

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And and also he predicted that this type of thing. Nasalia were persisted in the context of contemporary globalization because of continuing tensions among all those 3 major components in the global spaces. That is individual nation, state, international relation and idea of common humanities.

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but of course, his theory has been criticized by brain or sprint, or they argue that he kind of Robinson's treat globalization as something statical or or or term or external forces rather, do not consider globalization is ongoing. Actually, when you look at a relationship between the 2. They actually belong to this kind of mutually constitutive and conflictual relationship.

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Again, all this this same same thing is true with global spaces. It's nothing static. It's not time in this. This history itself is involving.

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So I look at 3 cases. Of course, those 3 countries

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are kind of belong to the powerful countries for different reasons. but at the current moment they definitely they have some intersection among them because of a global capitalism. But again. We don't have time to talk about history, but if you look at a history actually, they are at different historical moments. Those countries are intersect with each other too. So, for example, in the mid nineteenth century, the open mall between the Britain and the Chinese, with China and China view that the start of

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century of accommodation. So in a world over 2, 3 country actually build the Alliance Anti-fossist Alliance. But again, when we come to the 2,007, 2,008 global financial crisis, and China is largely mute to the effects. But the other 2 Western countries are actually hugely affected by it. But again, all those

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relate to to transnational politics. from this slide I'm going to talk about a case of a Uk again, though the thing the case is so complicated, so I will not go into all details. I my papers touched upon, but I'm kind of give you a little bit of highlights. So through the Uk's case, I basically want to say something about

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how the history of the Empire has shaped both the millions of its European Union membership and imagination about its post Brexit future by relying on its transatlantic corner ties for so-called global Britain.

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So when we're talking about Brexit, we know that the base involve a lot of keynote things, such as immigration, sovereignty, and free trade, but also Brexit debate is about Brenton's place in the world in which its global influences has been in decline, and it see EU membership is viewed as a symbol of its decline and a loss of privilege, and therefore a stretch to Britain's historical narrative of the Self

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and Bricks. It kind of like Bringing up a nostalgic version of what makes Britain great in the past. Of course, the Empire and World War Ii. Which has provided a fertile grant for long-term Us. Capitalism that enabled Brexit so. But again, though this has

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Downside, which is in steer, for instance, of hope and renew, but has also busted the populism, ethnic nationalism, and prejudice in society. But again, when we're talking about the politics around Brexit. We also observe the highly divergent Geo temporal dynamics.

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which is another result of globalization, because you may find different parts of the Uk and also different cluster of a population in the Uk has quite different experience

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of migration and political sovereignty and economic policies. So, for example, London as a metropolitan city, global city basically voted remain right. But again, if you look closer, Eastern London and most people vote to leave because they they will feel their working class culture has been abandoned by by this mainstream so called the word all political culture.

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So this is, shoot them map. So there's layers there now, just like a, you know. Homogeneously they they they support a certain politics. but at the same time During the Brexit the notion of, or the concept of a global Britain was promoted.

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Present as an alternative to the EU after Brexit, which is viewed a grand strategy to renew a global leadership role, and it, of course, is the narrative of greatness, the distinctive identity of Britain as a small but a heroic nation. Some would critic. This is a vision of Empire 2.

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But others review this. It's just rhetorical strategy to downplay. It's corner past. Because talking about global rather than very narrow kind of Nationalist kind of tone. Right? So again, a when come to voter this work to some maybe voted to leave because of a priority. But other may vote to leave, because they believe in the multi racial state

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of the so-called new common wells. And again, though ken Zoe, the the concept of a Kenzuk and Angle Sofia also promoted as a kind of like a

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post abrasive transatlantic clearance ties again. Now this is a build on the has a lot of close connection with colonial history. again, a global Britain as a a slogan, as an idea, is inherently regressive world of you. And it's more appealing to domestic politics instead of kind of like. As an international narrative.

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In practice it can never be viable alternative to EU integration. European integration is partial when it comes to trade and security.

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So maybe a little bit too fast. But I'm going to quickly move to the second. A case. that is the United States. So through this case, I basically trying to say something that

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the the American, the American first era in the United States during Trump's areas. Their complaints boasts to erosion of multilateralism, a foundation of contemporary globalization, and a wish for return to the imagined or distorted past by neglecting the intensifying in inequity, rooted in neoliberalism in the present.

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So If we look at the Maga make American great again. So basically, the background is American. Hegemonic power has been contested, if not naturally, in decline since the 1970 s. the loss of a Austenti, so called, the true Americanist national code was viewed as the core of the Us deny. So, therefore, there is a need to return to a past in which an idea, status, hierarchy, or social order

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Prevailed. So again, this slogan not only mobilized those who were left behind economically, but also those perceive the Us. Global dominance as threatened in the context of going domestic racial diversity and the global economic competition

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decline. so the making self victimizing claims. this, this discourse, a creative chance of equivalent binaries between us as the patrons, faithful and authentic versus them, as the traitors, faceless and intruders.

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and this kind of discourses misdirected public tension and political action away from the very present, troubled by, intensified the socio-economic iniquity to work, to scapegoated others in the name of a naturalism and a great future for the country. so again, oh, this discourse also create a kind of like urgency. So because they're trying to make the public think there are confidence stock choice between its tragic decline and the make

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American great again. So

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positioning persisting its future as a potential crisis for its historic glory, its identity, and even its civilization. like trump, says, this is the quote from Trump. The fundamental question of our time is whether the West has the will to survive.

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So any trump's in a speeches. American first is the first, commonly all frequently used. But this phrase actually is a mixture of American exceptionalism and a historical amnacia, because this phrase, an idea entangled with countries very dark history, including racism and economic protectionism. And it also reflects the American exceptionalism because they also portray themselves as a city upon a here or a unique, superior, singular, and a god of favored country.

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But in practice United States, during trump services, retreat for multilateralism. such as W. O. And Paris agreement, and indeed have very real impacts on the systems of the Liberal World order in the future. But what we know is actually neither anti globalization, including anti immigration, sentiment nor economic protectionism, is not new in United States history. But what is shocking is this politics.

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you know, one this time.

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now, we quickly move to China China's stories, basically. it's about to China's selective memories about the Asian sick result, a story of pre-globalization. Cosmopolitan connectivity aims to legitimize its geopolitical expansions and pursuit of alternative globalization that paralyzed

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the western lat global order.

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So you know.

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the phenomena for rising China's. in the past the decades also require discourse or articulation for both domestic and global audiences. Some of you may notice facts right? There's so many. I'm just give yourself for 2,008, and China surpassed Japan to become the largest holder of us. That

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and 2,010, China overtook Japan to become the worst second or the largest economy. Right now we are observing ongoing China and Us. Rivalry partial. Is it because United States already determined China is a strategic compatitator.

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So But the the The idea of a Chinese dream of great rejuvenation was initiated by Chinese Communist party government in 2,012, when she champion, came into power. It's aimed to promote the combination of an individual dream for good life

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and a collective dream for a wealthy and powerful nation in the world.

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Again, though in this discourses China's center of accumulation was emphasized, particularly China's victim was a victim of its historical, of of of the so called foreign powers in the past. Over 100 years! So this discourses provides a cognitive and emotional framework in which its political elites and ordinary citizen can interpret the word and create a sense of unity needed to continue both

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the engagement with global capitalism, and also the view of the Ccp. The community party. So in in this sense, those discourses is true for both nation building and alleged traumatizing the power of the party.

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So some of you may familiar with the Belt and the road initiative was introduced in 2,000

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13. This is a global infrastructure development strategy. it consists of 2 components. One is called a maritime, secure old initiative, and also the other part is called the secure road economic belts. Right now, this is an infrastructure joined by more than 100 words international organizations in the world extremely extremely powerful.

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but again. for the Western audiences or global audiences. They all familiar with the phrase of a sacred road, because Sikhil was kind of.

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you know, used for the Western travelers or explorers to wrote a book many years ago, and also adopted by UN. As a adopted by a post award, Japan to kind of promote a very, a good idea about things. So it's basically a very highly elastic and compelling Geo cultural concept.

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It tells stories of trade exchange, cooperation, friendship, prosperity, and cosmopolitanism in a language of openness and inclusability.

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And they also kind of portray China as a manual civilization that is historically global and inherently peaceful. So. But again, though in this discourse it's selected memory kind of a you. So, for example, they were highlighted town dynasty as the highest point of Chinese civilization, a model for Emperor Jus, and a golden age of cosmopolitan, cultural, and also like figures such as Jenk. a Muslim Chinese gator of the main dynasty was promoted as a symbol of China's harmonous relations with India-ocean states.

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So here, I want to conclude so, as you can say, through 3 case countries we all see Nastasia, with its hybrid, multi dimensional, effective orientation of time, allows the political leaders in different countries in those respective countries to move back and forth in time, and to bring back the glorious past, not even naturally, for the sake of the present, but rather for the promise of imagined future.

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And, second, we sort of identity. Politics defined itself against the other, has become an important tool with which to create a dicotomous or oppositional tragedy of national belonging and to narrow the nation at the respective turning point of globalization. The Third World trade is integral to the rhetorics of nostalgia. In all 3 cases the politics of culture is also apparent.

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Again, a cultural here is but particularly talking about the ways they trying to construct and tell the story about their their society and their cultural and their identity.

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So in the end, I go back to the point about globalization. We observe the divergent rhetoric of nostalgia which just reflect those countries, different empirical stages and experience of globalization and rearticulation of the place to which this aspire to, as well in the future world. And we also see the conflict to an a mutually constitutive relationship between globalization and the nostalgia. Because we don't

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view globalization as overarching. It's kind of a determining or external forces. Rather, it's ongoingly constructed with the forces or politics, such as nostalgia. So in the end, globalization as a multi-scale or ongoing process of deteriorization and re-territarizing also illustrated through this case. So the last slide I want to acknowledge my founder.

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and also, if you know any experts in the field, I would be really happy to interview them for more ideas. Thank you very much.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Thank you so much, Rachel. for sharing your fascinating research, and also for sticking to the time time limit. that's fantastic. We will continue now with our group from Germany codp. So Anna, who cannot be with the group today, but also man with the media and Jana.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): you're all based. So I don't have time to introduce you all individually. But you're all based at this chair for interculturality in right. And I think from what I could gather, what combines all of your profiles is this focus on qualitative methods, intersectional approaches to the study of mobility and inequalities.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): And also this, yeah, much needed attempt at bridging post colonial and post-socialist studies.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): So we are looking forward to hearing more about your research.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: Yeah, thank you very much for this kind introduction, and we are really happy to be here, and to provide an overview of our current research, and the title of our presentation is approaching contested entanglements, post-socialist colonialities and membership mobility and memories. The starting point of our presentation is the ambivalent memories of the Soviet occupation.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: sorry

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and Gdr. Socialism. So in particular, some elements of current debates in Germany, and particularly in East Germany.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: For example, also here we find nostalgic memories of Socialism that are often misused or used by the right wing extremist parties and movements. Also, in the public debate we find angry re-interpretations of current East-west as a matrices. For example, some scholars also speak of the invention of East Germany by West German politics, and they use also a colonial vocabulary.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: And then also we find some scholars that have compared to this possession of East German citizens in the context of unification with the dispossession of migrant sized subjects, and they see a similarity in the ways how East Germans, and especially Muslim migrants compete for symbolic recognition.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: So these current struggles around the Socialist period in East Germany inform our research interest. That is as conceptual one. And also our research question. That is what concepts allow us to address the entanglements between colonial and Socialist legacies.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: We laid this interest to 3 fields of research, migration studies, membership studies and collective memory studies. And this is also the structure of our presentation.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: So begin. What is the added value of theentangle's perspective on a post-socialist and polynomial dynamics.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and at the beginning we would like to highlight some conceptual vocabulary that we find useful for our research

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: to get a better understanding of the contested entanglements related to post-socialist colonialities, we argue that it is important to pluralize the notions of imperiality and coloniality.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and here, for we draw on de-colonial scholars work such as Manuela, vodka, or medi Atlastanova, that have have in the last conceptual vocabulary for an empire, and sensitive analysis with regard to the mighty faceted experiences of Socialism and and in East Europe.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: And we want to introduce some of the basic terms. One is the notion of imperial difference that relates to hierarchies between European empires before and after the colonial expansion.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: And here we can distinguish between so-called first-class and second-class empires, and from this perspective. Europe, and especially the European Union, could be seen as a first-class empire, and some scholars have also, ironically called, as an area of freedom, security, and justice.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: Meanwhile the second rent, or the second class empires might be related to the former Soviet Socialist Union and the post-socialist Russian Federation, and this means that those dynamics that take place in the context of East Europe in general and in East Germany in particular, are dynamics that reside from the interplay of imperial elements of both the capitalist West and the post Socialist East.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: So just one more sentence on the concepts of second class or subaltan empires.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: they occupy a middle ground between the civilized center and the Orientalized periphery which makes them both object of epistemic colonization and a colonizing subject.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: And so we ask how to think the interaction between different imperial legacies in the context of Eastern Europe, and how to better understand the entanglements of different imperial elements in this regard.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: So I'm going to go and taking up the demand for polarization for post-five offers like Monday, not for Stanovy. I'm on where I've got. We are interested in how the entanglements of different colonialities create hierarchies of live chances and social inclusion and exclusion, but also the the built environments we live in. Memory, scales, labor, exploitation, migration, passing citizenship laws, and so on. And therefore we try to bring 3 stands of this

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: ere

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: structural patterns which are based on the traces of the European project of racialized inequality and in civilizing mission we are interested in explicitly highlighting the colonial and racial essence of Frasier capitalist modernity. We also engage with Socialists and post-socialists or Eastern European knowledge and structural patterns which are based on the traces of the Socialist project of equality. Socialist coloniality can be understood as an anti-western materialist project which

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: paradoxically to reproduce hierarchies and exploitation. For example, visa be Jewish, Asian, Muslim, and Romani people.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: In that sense we center the Soviet Empire and post-socialist relations, as both colonized and colonizing powers within the racializing and culturalizing hierarchies of global and local difference. And last, we also engage with new colonial patterns of entanglement, hierarchy, and exploitation, where the practice of exploitation is not related to settle colonialism

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: but it's mediated through epistemological, legal, economic and political, biopolitical, and so on. Me and we are interested in global, neoliberal economic models of exploitation and their local manifestations in relation to colonial patterns visiting the global self

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and always

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: so next we will come to the examples we are working with. In my case, it's for Socialist migration in between Eastern Europe and Europe.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: which I,

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: showing here that with respect to migration, mobility, we can, we want to introduce a potential reader to the idea that configurations of criminalities always create different national and regional contexts in and in between which people are geographically, but also so socially mobile and immobile, and that these come with hierarchies of deservingness and imaginations belonging and social mobility.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: The example that is there, historically and currently topical is migration and mobility in the trying of Germany, Poland, and Ukraine and its global context, historically, migration. And that triangle is framed by pre-socialist, imperial, national, Socialist, cold war, post-soviet Russian, imperial, but also post-socialist reconstruction, and neoliberal, European and EU economics.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: cultural patterns and mobility in migration politics

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: in the post called for our context, especially, for example, the Ukrainian migration is quite diverse. For example, including Ukrainian Jewish migration to Germany, continued work, migration to Poland, flight, migration to Poland since 2,014, and migration mobility of Romani people towards Western Europe.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: Germany has a history of exploiting or inviting a Polish labor and inviting Ukrainian refugees, but far less work and migration from the great. Taking the global context into account of Germany and Poland, give a preferential treatment to Ukrainian refugees over the racialized refugees of the long summer of migration which came from countries like Syria, Iraq, and different African States.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: for Eastern European neighbors. Then, even if they are categorized as Slavic, others, comediality and solidarity have been more likely than for Non. quite a non-christian nation, as others

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: in recent times at least, and at the same time a part of the discourse towards Ukrainian refugees in Poland, for example, in current electoral politics, has turned negative towards Ukrainian refugees.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: which means that the relationship of colonialities actually can change, and that other rain may adapt over time.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: You over all, take away of the coloniality. Sensitive of post-socialism, post colonial migration. Mobility

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: is that a historically richer analysis, of course, allows us to see hierarchies of citizenship, device diverse into the interdependent forms of regulation, immobility, mobility, racialization, and culturalization, where Eastern Europeans.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: in all their internal diversity, and as long as they are white

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: become visible as in between and racialized and economic tools, they are not absolute others, but also not absolute insiders. And now I head over to, you know.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: Yeah. Now, I would like to reflect on post-socialist colonialities with regard to the field of membership, and in particular, I want to focus on graduated forms of difference, making that create another within Europe.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and as post-ocial studies show, constructions of an in civilized, uncivilized Eastern European Europe have contributed to modern self-conceptions of Western Europe. So we can understand this as a relational process, and I will exemplify this on the German case

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and the public debate is, Germany is often portrayed as less civilized in West Germany, and this happens often by a depictions through classes, and, for example, relating to eating heavens, dependence on transfer payments or former affiliation to the Gdr. Work of state, and also mobility related semantics when there are comparisons between and so called.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and request

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and and very prominent interpretative scheme that we often find in the public debate. It's the scheme of the brown East Stephanie awesome, but I think we have to to to translate it with the Rices East.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and in this scheme often racist violence and anti-democratic attitudes as ring as as as as as well as rightering Populism, are shifted towards East Germany and West. Germany is then imagined as more tolerant a democratic, and this is, of course, highly problematic because it trivializes the role of rationalization of racism in Germany 250

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: without paying attention to the mighty faceted dynamics of the post-colonial post-fascist and post-socialist society as a whole.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: and it also reproduces ideas of gender and class. For example, when it deals with images of unc contemporary muscularity in East Germany. And so we see that here we find a kind of culturalization that is dealing with ideas, class of class gender and the specialization of the difference that intersect 250

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: with ideas of whiteness and tetra to normativity. So the culturalized other and East Germany still remains part of the nationally imagined

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: ere

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: this story. And he's what was a sociologist. How do you, Katavi, Nevada?

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: So, to conclude by acknowledging different entanglements, not only between West, west, east, and South, but also the diversity within the previously divided societies. And with regard to the post-socialist transformation, the mighty has seted experiences and struggles around belonging

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: both in the Gd. And the post-socialist presence can be made visible.

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Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: And now I head over to

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Manuel Peters: yeah. thank you. So I'd I'd like to focus on an example of memory making from the perspective of of Socialist colonialities. And so memory making, to begin with, can be seen as very close to to studies on belonging. So this is, in other words, national narratives rely very much on narratives of the past, as we always learned before. Can you go back to come?

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Manuel Peters: narratives on on the past, as we, as we learned in the presentation before as well. that contribute to specific understanding of belonging and membership, or, as Stuart Hall argued in his text, his heritage. Those who cannot see themselves reflected in the national narrative cannot properly be known. So this is memory making this also about in an exclusion about possibilities of belonging. And so

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Manuel Peters: see now to the next slide. So what we can see here is the former palace of the Republic, the former Gdr. Government building, located in the center of Brilliant, which, after years of decay and temporary reuse as an exhibition hall was dismantled in 2,008,

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Manuel Peters: and Fatima I tay up well on argues, and I cite the political decision not to leave the palace as a memorial of this past, the Socialist past of Germany. no matter how it is used, but to tie it to another older but seemingly unincome, but version of Germany, by demolishing it, can be seen as symptomatic of how Germany as a whole deals with a divided history.

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Manuel Peters: So we heard before, just a moment before, about the production of the brown or racist east. So East German back witness visa we pro in a progressive West, you know. So the imagine and imagine progressive West. So here, link between these perspective and processes of memory making can be established.

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Manuel Peters: say, a devaluation of its Socialist past as discussed before the Palace of the Republic as a marker of constructing belonging.

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Manuel Peters:  okay, we can go to the next slide.

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Manuel Peters: So let us turn to the same place, but to, as it looks now. Before the palace of the Republic was built this the

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Manuel Peters: a a castle, and the castle that you see here again, formerly Royal Prussian, and then imperial residence, severely damaged in the Second World War, and blown up in 1,950 by decision of the Gdr. Government.

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Manuel Peters: In place of the palace of the Republic, we can now find the reconstructed Berlin Castle hosting the Humboldt Forum.

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Manuel Peters: So what's the homeb Forum? The homework for is where Berlin's non-european collection can be seen the ethnographic collection

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Manuel Peters: and I would just like to to side again. That presentation would be is in the homeboard Forum, she argues, has been sharply criticized by post colonial groups, as it is largely omitted. no, it's it's not, it's not. I'm I'm coming to the citation in a moment. So the presentation of the of the ethnographic objects. So it has been sharply criticized. as it is largely omitted to link the history of German colonialism.

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Manuel Peters: German imperialism, and the production of racist knowledge with practices of collecting these ethnographical objects, and say, one can, one can argue that this omission is telling and symbolizes, you know, the reconstruction of the Villain Palace. symbolizes Germany's new role in which it's problematic history. It's not a thing of the past. And now I signed so both outside

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Manuel Peters: through the old palace facade and insight through the encyclopedic collections. There's no reminder of what disappeared with reunification, but of what was rediscovered with it.

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Manuel Peters: German normality away from the memory of national Socialism, the holocaust and war towards an unincumbered future in the tradition of enlightened Prussianism.

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Manuel Peters: So to to sum up what we can see among other things in these examples is

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Manuel Peters: a certain dealing with East, well with with the Socialist past and Eastern European memory in form of its devaluation.

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Manuel Peters: and we can see a tendency also noted by several scholars to unproblematically re-inscribe. We remember imperial past, and also in this case Imperial Germany, so the form Imperial palace located in villain we constructed

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Manuel Peters: become to next slide.

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Manuel Peters: Let us come to our conclusion, or highlighting some of the most important points. With respect to contestants in a month. Post Socialist colonialities, membership, mobility and memories.

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Manuel Peters: so with respect to the edit value of the perspective

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Manuel Peters: with respect to migration, we argued that it enables us to pay attention to hierarchies of citizenship.

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Manuel Peters: racialization, and culturalization which situate Eastern Europeans in an in between same status and racialized and economic terms, you know. And and Jana also discussed consequences of this, not just for Eastern Europeans and but for greater mobility patterns. with respect to membership, the perspective enables for examining radiated forms of difference making

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Manuel Peters: in which

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Manuel Peters: East Germans are culturalized. But we main part of the imagined community. and with respect to collective memory making While the argument is that the perspective enables also for creating spaces that imagine more just futures

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Manuel Peters: at the intersection of capitalism and real Socialism by highlighting the processes. of re-inscription and devaluation. that we highlighted against the background. Example?

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Manuel Peters: so thank you so much. 4 listening.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Thank you so much. This was amazing also that you to the time limits. this. You're all very model presenters in that sense.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): let's move on to the third presentation.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): yeah, Glenda, if you could kindly open the screen. so this presentation is by, I hope I pronounce the name correctly.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): yes. Hi, I can see you now. So you're based at the American College of Greece, right? since 1818 8 1988. That's what I found online. And your research and your teaching revolves around migration, social movements, civil society organizations, gender religion

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and the media, and we're also looking forward to hearing your latest research. The floor is yours.

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Thank you for the presentation and the introduction, and thank you for the inclusion of my presentation. In this very interesting session I see some very interesting links, threads connecting to the previous 2 ones. Hopefully, we will have the opportunity to discuss more about these issues. Later, during the the discussion.

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you can see the title of my presentation, collective memory, ritual enactment of national identity, the Centennial celebration of the Asia Minor disaster.

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I'm not sure.

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Just pressing. Enter. How do I move?

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He doesn't move.

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Just yeah. Okay. Okay.

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 So following the 2021 bicentennial celebration of the Greek Revolution against the Ottoman Empire, the Greek State decided to dedicate

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the 2,022 to the centenary of the Asia Minor catastrophe.

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Throughout the year a series of commemorative events were organized across the country, and even abroad, by diasporic communities abroad.

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and as an act of remembrance to an event that is considered now a milestone of the modern Greek history. using as a starting point the Centennial for the Asia minor disaster. I wish to explore the relation between memory and history, and the ways in which the past was

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renegotiated and reconstructed by the State agents and by the refugees and their associations, their institutions over time, as evident by the innumerable events scheduled for the anniversary, the interplay of remembrance of forgetting reshapes the collective trauma as a national trauma by selectively reconstructing both the refugee memory and the national narrative.

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A case in point.

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Okay, I managed a case in point is the all Greece, one culture, 22. Program of the Greek Ministry of Culture, which invited, along with various artists, groups of artists, and refugee associations in unions to propose actions and events dedicated to the centennial of the disaster for Hellenism.

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The next line, the next slide you can see here the 140 events that eventually were organized in different archaeological sites and museums across across the country, and 14 of them actually were aimed at younger ages, obviously as part of the process of socializing and passing the memory to the younger, the younger groups.

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I want to. I I want you to take a look on this one. Earth is the formal name of the Hellenician television broadcasting services. And they dedicated they they organized the programs. Actually, a series of programs

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drawing on the very rich archives they have from the previous decades, including video recording of testimonies of refugees from the eighties and the nineties. And there is a reason why this decades

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very rich photographic material. And they called out refugees memories. They also used the digital platform at flicks for similar purposes, and their spaces were created for documentaries. You can see these are entire series of different phases relating to the experience of of refugees.

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but also interviews from the past material many of these pictures that you will see them again, maybe later, in some form and relay to the early days of their arrival in Athens and other parts of Greece, and they are retired from archives. So it's very important to see how this past material is retrived, and use to help people instigate the recollection of of memory. Let's say.

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okay. I went back.

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Why. okay. found it.

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Okay? So you can see here a pretty extensive list of events. It's very hard really, to map, to do a real mapping of the sort of events that took place. By local communities, by municipalities by research and academic institutions, by refugee.

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obviously associations, festivals, museums, literary events, theatrical and music performances. But special publications, the printing of older books, TV series films

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The commander is based on archival material, even socket teams of refugee origin. They organized, they organized art installations and street art. I'm going to show you. I have some pictures in the following slides I would like to share with you. This is a a special coin. The refugee mother that was circulated. It kind of narrates the story and the tragedy of

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the refugees from Asia Minor. But I have highlighted the last part, because this is where a lot of emphasis is placed in the commemoration. So it's the trauma of the past, but it's also The fact that they were gradually assimilated in the Greek society, and they have been reached that society.

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Well, this is a theme, but has emerged in the process because I intend to give you a historical account to see how the refugee identity was negotiated, and how the refugee man and memory.

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from the point where it was excluded from the national imaginary, it became part of it, and they all depicted kind of

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typical cases of refugees

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in neighborhoods that were developed for that purpose, that is, to shelter them when they arrived after 1922 in Athens.

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And it's it shows the first one the hardships of the early days. Obviously, the this one is about, and you know it's a a musician, and it's a kind of evokes connections to a special type of musical zone. That the refugees developed, and which is very popular.

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And here the the role of refugees in in building In because they were cheap label hands, and in the industrialization process of of the country and specific types of industrialization, like industries like textile industry and tapestry. So I mean, it's kind of in those 4 towns of Athens neighborhoods which were created, and which.

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by the way, most of them, you can identify them. This is how the city becomes like

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a map, a site of remembrance and Costa recollection, because just because of the names, because the people that settle there, they actually use the names of the places of origin, just adding the word neon.

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So Smyrna, Nas Middney, Philadelphia, near Philadelphia, and so on, and so forth. And of course there are place names. There are streets, there are monuments that are that that keep referring, that is, the the names refer to this past

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so calendars all sorts of calendars by pretty much everyone in academic institutions, researchers, television theater teams, schools, local organizations. I mean, you can hardly find anyone that didn't do anything, any institutions that is, any agent that didn't do something. It was not involved in some way in commemorative activities that aim to

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what to kind of celebrate as an out of remembrance that is for for the past. So this is from the triumph to the disaster and to the rebirth, the Renaissance that he birth.

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So I want you to keep these things in mind, because these are things that eventually we will discuss.

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Okay. I talked previously about the refugee neighborhoods and the different the different events they organized and organized. Interestingly enough, Strip artists were sponsored. This started with the initiative of the church in one of these organizations, so well known, street artists were sponsored, and they created this huge rule. This is the site of an entire apartment building and depicting.

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and obviously, and the absolute, the displacement. But also, you know, the refugee mother here.

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This is very impressive, too. from another area, because it kind of draws your attention to the past, the the boy and his his grandmother, the connection of generations, and the reminiscence of the past, or the connection to to the past

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and more

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commemorative events by communities abroad. I've chosen on purpose. and a screenshot from the program of the Greek dais community in Victoria. Here

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the annual celebrations

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and various universities and institutions abroad. So I would like to give you a little bit of background here.

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Why, this. you know, a commemoration is so important and

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what exactly it means to Greeks, and and how it came to mean what it means today. Actually.

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so Asia Minor is deeply embedded in the modern Greek identity. There are basically 2 reasons why it holds such an important role

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in the Greek. national consciousness and imagination. The first one is that since the nineteenth century the Asia Minor region was celebrated by the Greek national narrative as part of the country's homogeneous national space. The second is the hundreds of thousands of people Greek orthodox Christians that were living in the geographic area, for you know,

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centuries. And they were abandoned to leave these areas in the 1922, because of the disastrous defeat of the Greek army in the Greco- Turkish war.

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which came to be a turning point both for Greece, and for tech it because it is linked to the nation building. process!

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Now there's the the

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the the burning of Osmina became like the iconic event

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that marks the the disaster

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and the mass killings resulting in expulsion from millennia. Old homelands is what Greeks typically refer to as the Asia minor catastrophe or catastrophe.

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The experience of exposure was somatic. The human cause was tremendous. Loss of property, loss of life, dislocation, violence. Obviously Now the

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but there' been efforts

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towards peace making that failed in the 19 twenties.

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 It was an effort by in the chief of Ser, and that would aim to divide the old Ottoman Empire.

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and later on, in 2,023, the the of Los Angeles mandated the exchange of populations. and because of that, about 2 million people moved.

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but actually the deportation took place before that. It was like the culmination or the how can I say the treaty that actually recognize Turkey as a new country and offer some guarantees for the population that have already been falsely dislocated.

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So we're talking about really large numbers here 2 million people, most of them Greek, but also a significant number of Muslims.

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And now, as a result of this expansion, they forced this location.

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and in a country which was roughly more than 5 million people all together. Chris

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One point 2 million refugees arrived, most of them in the northern part of it. You can understand the challenge for the State.

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obviously a state which was troubled at that time, and in the years that followed by, you know the aftermath of wars.

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That political instability and political divisions, because of the so-called national schism which started earlier, but obviously it was very difficult, in other words, to meet the the needs of the refugees.

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and you can see

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in the pictures here and in the ones that followed the temporary settlements and the conditions to which and the hardships one can imagine that the refugees had to to face because they were sheltered in. In, you know, public spaces, any any place that was available, including, you know, theaters.

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and that lasted for a couple of years. So at the beginning the Greek State received some help from assistance from international organizations. But it had to deal on its own, and because of the situation, and because of the political situation as well, the the refugee issue became intensely

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politicized.

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Now I

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I forgot to mention at this stage that the refugees from Asia Minor, although they, aware of Greek origin.

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and they faced lots of difficulties, they faced content, they faced suspicion. Even their Greekness was was questioned.

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So a discrimination, alienation actually defined this early experience. Apart from the hardships they encounter

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now

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definitely at that time.

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and they were not part of the national narrative.

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They were not recognized, they were not accepted. They had to face all these hardships I previously mentioned.

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 okay. The Asia Minor catastrophe and populations. Exchange is today a mnemonic topples for the national Greek consciousness.

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Its dramatic character shaped over time, the country's collective memory, and through continuous significations became a core element of the national identity. But this has not always been the case. Through what process did the refugee trauma in the lived memory turn into a cultural memory for all Greeks? This is obviously linked to the centennial celebration

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which offers the opportunity to study the uprooting of Asia Minor Greeks in a wider historical, social, and political context, as the end of historical era through which political entities, institutions, and identities as we know them today have developed.

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Now, during the years that followed the interwar years.

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refugees were excluded, as I obviously say, as I previously said, from the national national narrative and imaginary. The term catastrophe was used in official narratives to refer only to the military defeats in in Anatolia, and the reason for that was that the army was in power.

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It has political power, and it defined the memory of the past of the war decade in very particular terms.

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it actually merged the Asia. Myro catastrophe emerged with it, the war decayed, and was commemorated by the Greek State as a military rent.

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The army exercised memory politics.

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control the historical memory, imposing from above a series of anniversary celebrations and emphasizing the triumphs

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of an invented heroic past, despite the the defeats, okay, and silencing at the same time, while silencing is targets sides so interestingly, the Asian minor catastrophe was incorporated into the heroic narrative of the foreign soldiers, not the wounds of the uprooted civilians.

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Now this takes us now to the issue of identity, memory, and identity.

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Refugees! did not share a uniform as a minor identity before their displacement. The communities, the Greek communities in Overadolia were particularly remarkably diverse, not only in social terms.

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primarily in cultural, I would say in regional terms, because and it's kind of common, I mean Greeks very frequently tend to give priority to the regional identity, maybe more than than the national one. So, therefore.

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this was the key point of reference for them prior to the displacement and the foundations for each community's collective memory

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a number of factors which have to do with the displacement. Actually, the displacement worked in ways that allow them to develop a a uniform identity and a collective memory. The common experience of this location, obviously the hardships in Athens, the condition of refugeehood, the settlement in new neighborhoods, as I said before, that they gave into which they gave

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the names of the former homelands, the struggle for integration, all of them, and the trauma, in other words, helped to generate identity, and for the refugees the preservation and presentation of the past

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to others, that is, became key for their integration to the Greek society, and for their inclusion in the national imaginary

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by recording ethnographic elements, and by providing archaeological evidence to prove the Greekness

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that is the connection, the ancient roots, and some recruits or connection to Byzandium. They were claiming their greatness, thus restoring the sense of continuity with the past was a prerequisite for survival and adaptation into the new country. Critical to this process was the role of refugee associations.

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Dozens of them were created since the 9 founded since the 1,900 twentys, mostly by refugee intellectuals. The fear of losing the cultural heritage and of the of the homelands of the lost homelands became the primary concern of these associations. Right from the beginning

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they undertook the task of collecting and preserving

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materials relating to customs or traditions, to music, to material culture, to everyday practices.

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acting as mediating structures between the refugees and the States. These associations managed the refugee past, established sites of memory and contributed

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and to

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I'm sorry somehow, and contributed

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to

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the refugees and public integration in the Nation State.

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Now, through regular meetings and various events and activities, memorial services, commemoration of anniversaries linked to the catastrophe, obituaries, scholarships, dowries, and so on, and so forth. Unmarried girls. They manage to instill a sense of belonging and cultivated and imagined community for their members.

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Moreover, fragmented individual stories and experiences were articulated into a meaningful and coherent narrative of a past actively constructing a memory from below an institutional refugee. Memory!

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The periodicals played also a very important role in negotiating and nationally diffusing a narrative of refugees, regional past.

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and

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now, in the period that fall on World War Ii.

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things began to change, and the primary reason was that new divisions which were related, political and ideological divisions related to the Civil War of the Fortys.

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came into the forefronts. Therefore, divisions between the locals and the refugees that were so important in the past began to to fade away, and the official state discourse

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promoted at that time an idealized version of homogeneity and national unity which silenced the voices of refugees

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whose dramatic experiences during the forced exodus and and the the resettlement were neglected. Moreover, the Greek state, because of its political choice to normalize its relations with Turkey was reluctant to undertake any kind of initiatives, commemoration activities, etc. commemorative activities that would bring the the refugee memory into the public eye into the public sphere.

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During this period the holocaust, and obviously a number of important changes that took place in Academia, the so-called social turn. The cultural turned the memory term. Eventually right

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have increased awareness of the significance of oral testimonies.

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the importance of subjective experiences, and for the fuller representation of the past.

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Yet refugee memory

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was not as yet nationalized. The task was primarily undertaken by refugee intellectuals, either as members of refugee organizations, institutions, or as individuals who contributed to cultural production, many of them there were authors. they've written books, historical books, but also literary works.

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and we know that literary works, despite the fact that they move, they gravitate between testimony and and personal experience and and fiction. Sometimes they have a great appeal. They can become particularly popular. They they stick, let's say, with the people much more than sometimes academic work does. So a literature in exile, as a distinctive genre

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had expressed the emotions of laws and nostalgia for the homeland. A number of novels have been published on the occasion of the anniversary, in the which introduced the use of memory and morality as crucial for understanding the disaster.

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So through the depiction of everyday life of Greek communities and Anatolia, the cultural identity of refugees became more clear and more distinct.

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and they many of these books

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published and reprinted, they became very popular. They were widely read by the broader Greek audience. They became what regret has called textual monuments.

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and many of these literary works. And we see that from the commemorative activities of the 2022, they were morphed eventually into other cultural programs meaning a theatrical plays, a TV series films, and many more.

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and eventually integrated the experience of exile into the national narrative.

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More importantly, they shaped an oppositional critical opposition or discourse that challenged the dominant national state right? In other words, report a narrative. I'm sorry about the image of of refugees

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that has prevailed as cultural memory.

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The hegemonic narrative of

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the State narrative was also challenged by the collected testimonies of refugees.

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Many and refugee institutions, voluntary associations, and especially the center for Asia Minor studies, which was

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and founded early on in the thirties, but as a musical archive. And then it changed eventually as the very institution that kind of laid and laid the foundations for the research on refugee issues, refugee studies in Greece.

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its primary mission was to preserve the cultural heritage through the memories of the people. So they have done extensive work in that direction, and their archival material is very rich. Many of the commemorations that took place

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last year. There were drawing from material that has been collected and preserved by and disseminated by the center of

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Asia minor studies. If you see that they have this huge oral history, archive manuscripts, endless thousands, pages of manuscripts, photographs, and so on and so forth. We have seen some of them that we have seen before they come from from this.

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So

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So through the systematic collection of all of testimonies that it has deployed to the center of Asia Minor studies, and it used a grassroots approach to recreate the story of uprooting

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refugees were gradually constructed as a distinct social group no longer island, but part of Hellenism that could not be allowed to fall into oblivion.

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The new formed, the new reformed refugee culture gradually joined the country's other regional cultures since the 1960 S. And of 1960 S. And the mnemonic narrative became nostalgic about growth homelands. One reason the basic reason for that was that the first generation was getting really old.

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the new. So the second generation was taken over in associations as well, and these were people who did not have a first-hand experience of the exodus, the the expansion, by the way, it's very interesting that they use the word actions a lot which has a Biblical

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undertone and So you know their memory, which is a memory that was passed to them by their families and by their communities. had to be rescued. One reason for that had to be preserved. One reason for that was that the areas, the suburbs, the neighborhoods, the refugee neighborhoods in which they were raised, born and raised some of them.

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and they were withering, the the reason being that the city was changing, due to industrialization due to city expansion, and many of them moved out, and of course the population composition changed. So that was a standard reference. That is, the space in which they were raised was a standard reference for them, and this this was not there anymore. So I mean they. They felt that

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 it had to be that the memory of of their of their parents, and had to be preserved.

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Now the change and the integration of refugee memory into the national narrative is clearly reflected in the commemorative events of 2,022,

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and in which it is evident that the trip to Asia Minor involves a collectively members of an event that is, as I said in the beginning, is considered today, milestone for modern Greek history. In the 80 s. And 90 s. The narrative change shifted to a more radicalized and more politicized one.

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The Second and third generation, the generation that followed, and it has to do a lot also with the broader political scene some incidents, in other words, that have to do with relations with Turkey, that had to do also with the condition in in Eastern Europe at the time and movements there anyway, and it became much more radicalized and and and politicized.

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and the offspring of of refugees where actually the notion of trauma kinds of kind of becomes very popular at the time it's widely used, and more broadly, I mean, and the refugees demand. Actually they they accuse the State for undermining the experiences of their ancestors.

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and that they see their job as being a mission, a kind of quest for justice to the sufferings of of their ancestors.

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So I mean, they want the sufferings to be recognized, and what is very important is they. They

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genocide, and the exercise pressure through the associations that the Greek Parliament votes and recognizes officially the fourteenth of September as a day of remembers. That's a day that the great fire of Smyrna, and and also that it recognizes, you know, the the incident, the displacement, but also the loss of so many lives as an act of of genocide.

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I'm finishing. Yeah. So for that to happen, the victimization narrative came into into the forefront.

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The victimization there is of of the parents. That was not the case with the first generation. The first generation

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primary objective, was the integration into the the Greek society, and not This now, and in in trying to wrap up. I I want to share show you a couple of slides from one big exhibit. That kind of illustrates the key themes that stood out in in the Commemoration and the Commemoration. 2022 commemoration of the Asia Minor catastrophe.

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and a

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by the way, there's no members who ambass those who are genocide. Here, as you can see, the stability is organized by the connecting regime and the center of Asian Library.

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There's a line of mechanism.

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This is the campaign that the State actually launched.

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Okay? A. Mar. There's a disaster, not a person. But. And if I give you my television.

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hey? Then compassion for displacement, and reverse. A very large exhibition

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with many exhibits, you know custom customs. heirlooms, documents, and so on.

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The the objective was to remember to learn to reflect.

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This is these are the words of the curator of the exhibit, that you know clearly point to the differences between the stance of the first generation and the following, the following, the following generation.

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now.

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 well, obviously, memory. Yeah, memory is not, is not static.

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And the politics of remembering the context in which

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things are recalled. obviously play very important role. And we see here through, you know this, this chronicle, so to speak, the way in which.

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very interestingly, the past and present become intertwined, and they also become connected to to a future.

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What stands out is I mean one question to address here is, which type of past actually, of the 3 different phases that I previously mentioned was the one that was selected and and promoted, the one that was referring to the, you know, the nostalgic nostalgic narrative, and the reference to the cultural roots, the polemical past, or some kind of new version.

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and clearly the narrative. It tries to silence unconvinced memories or memories, or or raise issues that potentially potentially could cause trouble in in terms of international relations or relations with Turkey.

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So the official policy actually tries to smooth a little bit. You know the tensions of the past. The politicized past is not there. But what is there is? The the narrative of nostalgia! Is there

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ritualized nostalgia? We can discuss this at the end. If you are interested. the institutionalization of victimization. The victimization of the ancestors!

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The loss of the past!

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But also without the strongly politicized narrative of the previous decades!

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The three-part narrative that is predominant not only in commemorative activities of the State institution, but also of of the organization. Is this the golden past of the first year, and the triumphant outcome, the rebirth which refers to the ways in which they not only they blossomed as I right here, but they manage to transform and renew

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the Greek society.

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So from marginalization into the core, let's say, of the Greek culture, the Greek narrative, and the the ways in which they were able to transform the society over time.

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Thank you. And I apologize. If I took longer than I should have had.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Thank you for sharing your research.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): yeah, now it's time to collect some some questions. I'll have a look at the chat. But, Glenda, if you could

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Fabio Santos (he/him): have a look at the

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Fabio Santos (he/him): that would be amazing. And I think we can also close. Yeah, this.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): the screen.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Yeah, stop sharing. Thank you.

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Okay.

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 all right. So

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yes, we have them. We have lots of questions, too. Yes, who would like to go first?

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It's a

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so that people.

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My name is Ray Kia. I am a practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine in Australia, and also a philosopher of science.

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I have a question to.

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why is that region called Asia Minor?

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This is.

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it's not art. It's usually referred to also as Anatolia.

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and goes back in time in your school with the

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all this for more than one in the areas by the Poles.

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But it's not the Middle East. It's not, you know, far, it's it's

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the Asia Minor, this scrolling as he was mentioned.

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I'm trying to be 13.

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To be honest, I don't know how those things are, and then I can't. You can just we have another question.

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Yeah. Hi, my name's Simina Dragos. I'm a Phd. Student at Cambridge.

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I have a lot of questions. It's been a really interesting panel. Thank you very much, but I don't want to take up too much space. My first question was for Rachel.

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and I was wondering if you think about the relationship between race and nostalgia, especially because 2 of the projects you address, like Britain and the Us.

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Are sometimes explicitly wide supremacist projects. I don't know about China. I don't know enough about the context. But I was wondering if there's a relationship between race and nostalgia. and then I have another question. If that's okay, just for everybody.

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my other question. is also for Fabio. I think it's an interesting idea to connect memory studies and historical sociology. But I was wondering if you think there are important conceptual or methodological differences between a sociological study of collective memory and historical sociology. Because I think what we've heard here today are

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sociological approaches to collective memory rather than historical sociology, but I find that the notion that there could be a bridge between collective memory studies and historical sociology really exciting. So I was wondering if any of you had any insights on that. Thank you.

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The right.

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I think that's a very interesting question. Thank you for the question, I would think of causing the context of Uk and the United States race is a very important dimension of power structure.

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So it's that they ask you a question about Race and North Taj, I would maybe more like a power structural. And Nas Taja. So so, because their history, like in the Uk and the United States race is like, I would sometimes argue, not only the power structure, it's also become the racial system, become a cognitive system

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that is different, or to help people understand things right. But again, or in China, because it has different racial history, but it also is a promoter idea as a kind of marty aspect harmony.

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In a way, it's disappearance of those kind of ethnic diversity. But I think, in a sense, of course, they operate in a different way. But in the end it's all trying to enforce the

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current kind of a status quo which is built on a certain power structure, either based on the general kind of concept of chineseness, like, despite the multi- ethnic groups, or in the other 2 countries like kind of, you know, white privacy. But again, I think if you essentialize as a race and a NASA, you miss a lot

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because what linked them is global capitalism and neoliberalism, a lot of larger resources. Of course the race has been used as one of the 2 to mobilize society.

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Fabulous! Would you like to respond? And perhaps our other colleagues to the broader question.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Yes, definitely. Thank you. Thank you for for that question. Well, that's exactly the idea to to combine these 2 fields also, because, to my knowledge, there is no research like Rc. On specifically addressing the study of memory. And this is also where my own sort of trajectory comes from realizing that within the German context there was no section within the German Sociological Association.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): either on memory or on historical sociology. So just Just recently, we found it like this group, you know, section on Historical Sociology. And a lot of people realize that they do historical sociology, but they never label themselves, and they work as such. also, because it's not within the traditional understanding of

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Fabio Santos (he/him): how to do historical sociology, which oftentimes would mean you go into the archive. These, you know, you engage with these classical established methods that we also channel challenged in the first session a lot,

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and So the idea being that historical sociology can benefit from these

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Fabio Santos (he/him): other approaches, like in the last set in the last you know last paper we also heard about. You know, literature and art filling the gap. for example. So how could, for example, how how can literature? How can. How can artworks become also part of the corpus? To be analyzed, for example, is, I think,

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Fabio Santos (he/him): a relevant question also, not not only for the sociological study of memory, but also for for historical sociology. And I just think there's lots of fruitful overlaps. And this these 2 sessions are intended to

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Fabio Santos (he/him): to explore them. further.

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would anyone else? We have another question here. But would anyone else like to respond to that question?

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Sure an idea and

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the the importance of memory. has strong roots back in the early days of sociology from our backs and on. My feeling is that memory studies from 1 point and on that were kind of colonized by historians.

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Although there was reluctance, or rather, let me put it differently, memory was treated. Memories of the past were treated more as testimonies rather than subjective experiences.

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So, therefore, looking for evidence, historical evidence in relation to to the past was what it was sought, and probably this is why memory was kind of undermined. Its significance was undermined as opposed to, you know, archives or other forms of recording the past.

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But But this has changed, and obviously we, as sociologists and we are not looking for. As for evidence in the sense that historians do. We are not looking for testimonies of the past, but we do value. the subjective experience. And it's an alternative way of getting closer to what the past look like. Maybe in a more genuine way.

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plus that raises issues of power, I try to imply, and I'm sure that this is part of what was mentioned in the previous paper as well. This notion of above and below.

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of history from above, and history from below, of memory, from above and in memory from below. That is the public history of the official history, the former narrative versus, the narrative of the people, and the importance, the the the the need to offer. To make visible the stories of, or groups that were disenfranchised and you know, marginalized. So therefore it does open. I it's my understanding. I'm very much convinced, in other words, that it opens

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01:31:02.880 --> 01:31:13.860
other prospects. The the combination or the the attempt to bridge the gap between historical sociology and memory studies can only reach

400
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all fields. I feel okay. Thank you very much. Paddy's got a question there. Well, actually, it's a great question. And I just kind of had my own thought, and it followed what Fabio was saying.

401
01:31:26.400 --> 01:31:33.489
And I would say, and this maybe came up in the first session. Actually, because I I would say that the contents of any

402
01:31:33.610 --> 01:31:48.900
archive, you know, a library archive, or anything like that that that historians use is actually an outcome of collective memory. So it is. People are deciding. People who write letters in correspondence at a certain point in time

403
01:31:48.980 --> 01:31:54.249
have remembered some past event, and they are recording that in alert to somebody else.

404
01:31:54.370 --> 01:32:14.039
And that person receives that letter, and they put that in their personal archive. And that's then donated to a university library archive. It ends up in the archive, and somebody in the university, either an academic or university librarian, decides that this piece of correspondence is worthy of entry into the archive. That is also a sociological outcome.

405
01:32:14.410 --> 01:32:23.140
So we can't really do history at all unless we do historical sociology of the documents that inform historiography.

406
01:32:23.300 --> 01:32:28.990
they are both intimately connected. I cannot be separated, I would say.

407
01:32:30.880 --> 01:32:35.700
did you want to say any more about your thoughts? Better? Yeah.

408
01:32:36.030 --> 01:32:58.969
Since you raised it I didn't want to say anything to profound. I'm just trying to wrap my head around around these things, but it seems to me that historical sociology applies sociological lengths to past events, whereas

409
01:32:59.150 --> 01:33:16.340
the sociological study of collective memory is trying to understand how past events impact the present and potentially the future in a political way. So I think they're they're kind of 2 steps removed from each other. And I just wonder

410
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what this removal implies for conceptual and methodological devices. I'm not saying they're not. They can't be bridged. I'm just thinking what conceptual and methodological devices might we need in order to bridge historical sociology and collective memory studies from a sociological lens.

411
01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:48.289
I mean, I'm asking this because I'm trying to finish my Ph. D. If anybody has any good thoughts. I can give you my email address. Please send me references. But yeah, I just think like.

412
01:33:48.990 --> 01:34:01.250
because for me, seeing the session, I was like, okay, this is a study of how memory is used from a sociological lens. But it's not historical sociology. And so,

413
01:34:01.580 --> 01:34:12.370
yeah, I wonder what what other conceptual tools we might use in order to bridge this epistemological gap. But maybe

414
01:34:12.480 --> 01:34:23.950
we've already bridged the gap. I don't know. I'm not a person with clues. I'm just asking questions.

415
01:34:24.160 --> 01:34:31.190
Yeah, it's an important question, an ongoing one, and I think well, the the 3 papers at different emphasis, I would say.

416
01:34:31.200 --> 01:34:34.849
But just if we mentioned Chris, because the most recent.

417
01:34:34.970 --> 01:34:41.909
I mean I would say you did go through changes over the course of the twentieth century in terms of

418
01:34:42.290 --> 01:34:49.979
exclusion, silencing and eventual integration. These are things that happened over time, not just things that happened in 2,022.

419
01:34:50.000 --> 01:34:59.869
And so sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But, as you said, collective memory is an ongoing process, too.

420
01:35:00.040 --> 01:35:05.649
You to me like like I'm taking off. When I was listening to you, I was thinking of.

421
01:35:05.820 --> 01:35:15.910
and coincidentally, around this time in Ireland there's a commemoration from 1,916 to 1,922 around Irish independence from Britain.

422
01:35:16.130 --> 01:35:37.220
and that has proved very kind of difficult kind of in relation to the same thing about trying to maintain an improved set of relationships between Irish politicians and British politicians which has always been difficult to maintain. And, for example, in a glass 7 cemetery in Dublin, where a lot of Irish revolutionaries were buried.

423
01:35:37.480 --> 01:35:45.169
and there had been a wall of the names of those revolutionaries commemorating those who gave their lives to Irish independence

424
01:35:45.810 --> 01:35:47.230
recently.

425
01:35:47.290 --> 01:35:52.530
and there had been an agreement that the names also

426
01:35:52.560 --> 01:35:54.670
of those who died

427
01:35:54.710 --> 01:35:58.790
in defense of British rule would also be pulled up

428
01:35:58.920 --> 01:36:21.260
on a wall adjacent to that wall to commemorate all combatants in that struggle for independence, and you can probably guess what happened very shortly that wall was defaced. They repaired it, defaced again. So they eventually covered up the wall and realized it could never be realized because of the

429
01:36:21.820 --> 01:36:29.660
the continued. I wouldn't. Antipathy is too strong when it gets to the stage when you're talking about

430
01:36:29.820 --> 01:36:41.639
the creation of your new nation, even though the Irish nation has a very, very long history. But as a nation state being new. And you're asking the people that you have taught for generations

431
01:36:41.950 --> 01:36:49.470
the meaning of your national history and how it's connected to a struggle against imperial power, that oh, now we

432
01:36:49.470 --> 01:37:13.130
and forget about all that. Forget about all that stuff we taught you in primary school. This is a new situation we're facing you seem to be highlighting the difference between memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory, making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory, making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top and memory making from the top, and

433
01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:14.950
and Britain

434
01:37:15.250 --> 01:37:22.099
and I kind of focused on that example in particular. It struck me as a kind of that whole Brexit thing

435
01:37:22.240 --> 01:37:25.059
as a kind of a triumph, of fantasy.

436
01:37:25.100 --> 01:37:31.190
of a reality. You know what I mean, and that some people in Britain had a sense of reality.

437
01:37:31.520 --> 01:37:32.629
You know what I mean.

438
01:37:32.720 --> 01:37:43.619
and some people, because of their indoctrination in a way of the history of British power, imperial power, and superiority over former colonies.

439
01:37:44.020 --> 01:37:49.720
and that was some kind of sense of a steam or a they could cling to.

440
01:37:50.140 --> 01:37:55.659
even though their own lives were economically decimated and diminished over

441
01:37:55.850 --> 01:38:00.729
previous decades through the rule of tattoo and the decline of industry, and so on.

442
01:38:01.020 --> 01:38:10.159
and it was their way. in a way of getting back at those who had become further and further away from them the class distance had increased.

443
01:38:10.280 --> 01:38:16.789
and they were identified as within that metropolitan sphere of London in particular.

444
01:38:17.030 --> 01:38:26.589
you know. So it was a kind of class antagonism within Britain connected to 2 a continued education around imperial power.

445
01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:33.589
and ended up with an outcome that the sources of those imperial power

446
01:38:33.770 --> 01:38:35.340
didn't want at all.

447
01:38:35.530 --> 01:38:45.910
You know it was an extraordinary outcome. We you just have a question online so that it's all right. Thank you for no, no, not at all. Manuel.

448
01:38:48.390 --> 01:39:08.760
Manuel Peters: yeah, thank you. maybe maybe just just contributing to to what we've been discussing right now. say, from from the perspective of like heritage studies that that we are also from. One could, one would possibly say, with respect to to collective memory, that collective memories about the present.

449
01:39:08.760 --> 01:39:21.289
Manuel Peters: you know, and and that to site, for example, Novanta, the past is a foreign country. Now, say and and that so processes of memory making are always about

450
01:39:21.340 --> 01:39:33.120
Manuel Peters: now, but now remembering a specific past. But the past that is actually remembered in the now and so So from

451
01:39:33.460 --> 01:40:01.849
Manuel Peters: bridging as you as you were asking, bridging historical sociology and memory studies, maybe. And please please add to to what I say, Mayor of Fritz and and Jana, if you want to. one could, one could maybe say from our perspective, we've we have argued that actually, these the processes of you know, Co, colon colonialism, responding the racialization, you know.

452
01:40:01.850 --> 01:40:13.360
Manuel Peters: capitalism. And and then and then links between racialization and socialism. What we, what we see is actually also how these are

453
01:40:13.570 --> 01:40:25.729
Manuel Peters: right. Now, we all taken up in active processes of memory, making to actually not just remember a past. But but to build a specific present.

454
01:40:25.850 --> 01:40:36.399
Manuel Peters: Yeah, and and so and so that's maybe similar to to how I and how I what I saw in the first presentation as well. So processes.

455
01:40:36.480 --> 01:40:42.029
Manuel Peters: you know, being, as was just pointed out, racialized because of.

456
01:40:42.230 --> 01:40:55.459
Manuel Peters: you know, a certain history that also, historical sociology focuses on you also. Here are in some intimate links between historical sociology and memory studies, you know. And say

457
01:40:56.050 --> 01:40:57.090
Manuel Peters: we just.

458
01:40:59.520 --> 01:41:08.700
Fabio Santos (he/him): there's also a question by Charles in the chat. I don't know if you want to. Do you want to speak to it, Charles?

459
01:41:13.080 --> 01:41:15.980
Charles Mphande: Thank you. I was

460
01:41:17.270 --> 01:41:23.189
Charles Mphande: just looking at the concept of a glorious past which is invoked.

461
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Charles Mphande: And

462
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Charles Mphande: I was looking at Uk and us the

463
01:41:29.740 --> 01:41:32.110
Charles Mphande: nations that are in decline.

464
01:41:32.540 --> 01:41:36.379
Charles Mphande: and they're trying to point to your past when they were great.

465
01:41:36.760 --> 01:41:47.729
Charles Mphande: But then China has had decline in the past, and now it's shut up. It's a nation in success. but it is still invoking a past which is glorious.

466
01:41:48.050 --> 01:41:52.999
Charles Mphande: and I was wondering if anybody would comment about that among the presenters.

467
01:42:02.730 --> 01:42:03.630
Rachel.

468
01:42:06.440 --> 01:42:08.420
I think

469
01:42:08.540 --> 01:42:34.909
I think, in Nasajar is kind of reviewed as a kind of a storytelling right? So, in a way, the victimalization should be part of it for 2 purpose. First, of of course, it's emotion. It's kind of generated those kind of emotional reaction right? At the same time. Another thing is immoralizing because you have a being wrong to victimize. So right now you deserve

470
01:42:34.950 --> 01:42:36.250
to do. What do you do?

471
01:42:37.020 --> 01:42:54.629
So? In a way, I think that is the part of it because China's declines with talking about nineteenth century. But now China is rising, it totally deserves it right. The kind of a sense of entitlement is there? I think it's just storytelling and emotional kind of mobilization.

472
01:42:54.760 --> 01:43:02.170
So because I think nostalgia is different from other things, the effective elements is so central to it

473
01:43:06.100 --> 01:43:16.249
me. I'm a historical sociologist of international relations from South Korea. I'm doing my archival research in the Us. Because for the

474
01:43:16.440 --> 01:43:30.799
last, for almost 4 decades, based on the military dictatorial regime. and they just do not leave any documents government documents behind. So it's very hard for the contemporary historical sociologists.

475
01:43:31.250 --> 01:43:38.000
I have to take my evidence in the years they had all that

476
01:43:38.270 --> 01:43:44.109
patrons there, intelligence, military and civilian, and

477
01:43:44.680 --> 01:43:47.830
of. or that branches.

478
01:43:48.150 --> 01:43:56.619
and about the China, Chinese Empire, when they try to recover their glorious past.

479
01:43:56.709 --> 01:44:02.019
That's a disaster to Korean people and the surrounding countries, because that's the era.

480
01:44:02.080 --> 01:44:05.589
China is imperialistic in pre- modern era.

481
01:44:05.639 --> 01:44:14.980
So when they try to recover their past stories. that means they try to subjugate all the surrounding countries, including Korea, chosen.

482
01:44:15.260 --> 01:44:21.119
So when we heard that kind of stories that the Chinese dream, or something like that

483
01:44:21.530 --> 01:44:30.270
I can't believe. You know. They try to rewrite ancient, medieval and modern histories

484
01:44:30.660 --> 01:44:32.579
for the

485
01:44:33.280 --> 01:44:41.530
students in the categories. I don't think that's a good idea, but anyway, they can make their kind of storytelling.

486
01:44:41.820 --> 01:44:48.710
So I just want to comment on the history making from above and below.

487
01:44:48.879 --> 01:44:56.260
I'm an interactors, anyway. All that exhibitions in the Museum in South Korea, the conservative regime

488
01:44:56.700 --> 01:45:05.889
they installed contemporary museum to commemorate celebrate

489
01:45:06.090 --> 01:45:11.450
the people who made South Korea a divided nation State

490
01:45:11.549 --> 01:45:23.349
just ignoring all that, independent of the national revolution movement that adjust the digit to the history. All we have to remember is Republic of Korea

491
01:45:24.120 --> 01:45:32.669
in the beginning and the optimals of the Second World War, and after the Korean War. so that kind of very divisive

492
01:45:33.120 --> 01:45:34.259
to select it.

493
01:45:34.500 --> 01:45:45.569
They try to put that kind of modern and contemporary memories upon the people of the South brain people, and there are some histories as you mentioned.

494
01:45:45.650 --> 01:45:55.500
they're totally just ignored and just, you know. put into kind of oblivion, because in the beginning was the contemporary Korean history.

495
01:45:55.580 --> 01:45:59.700
There are crashes between Koreans and Americans.

496
01:46:00.630 --> 01:46:03.559
and also Koreans and Japanese.

497
01:46:03.690 --> 01:46:09.120
So you know, to keep good relationships with America and Japan and China.

498
01:46:09.240 --> 01:46:16.679
In our probably you know the history. They try to just minimize

499
01:46:17.630 --> 01:46:25.380
that kind of kind of some very delicate memories, and they try to emphasize that kind of memory. They just

500
01:46:25.510 --> 01:46:33.240
contribute to the contemporary Korean history. Successfully. So for me.

501
01:46:33.570 --> 01:46:43.730
The the history from the memories memory making from up up and memory making from below is almost the new parallel.

502
01:46:43.890 --> 01:46:47.820
The memory from over this panel

503
01:46:48.560 --> 01:46:55.220
power just produced and below is kind of some kind of subvert and skip. I don't think so.

504
01:46:55.470 --> 01:47:01.329
2 of the memories are cross-rated with power relations. How knowledge is!

505
01:47:02.430 --> 01:47:03.520
Thank you.

506
01:47:03.680 --> 01:47:11.700
Sabio, do you want to? It's 17 min past. If you want to make some final comments.

507
01:47:11.780 --> 01:47:19.629
Fabio Santos (he/him): Yeah, I think Jana and medium have one last question or comment, and then I'll just make a.

508
01:47:19.970 --> 01:47:35.419
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: And so I just wanted to comment on this. maybe a little bit for psychotomy of history from below and from above, as as the person before me was talking about. They are both positions of power in a way, interacting with power and charges, questions also

509
01:47:35.460 --> 01:47:57.240
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: asking this question. Basically, they are powerful, the positions in decline, but also new new powers on the right. So and this is, I think, this is what our our book, our papers want to to highlight that there is not not just the from above and below, but there's also lots of lots of middle link positions that are interacting with each other, and that they are

510
01:47:57.240 --> 01:48:07.389
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: influenced by different colonialities, different imperial politics, and of course these are the ones that chat is highlighting or the the ones that Rachel was talking about are

511
01:48:07.580 --> 01:48:29.729
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: national politics, but they are funding back to different imperial politics, or in the case of the Us. Of course you know new new employees politics. So I think that this is one thing, what we should always have in mind, that there is no no just from a buff and or from below. But the question of you know you know different hierarchies and hierarchies that we have all over the place.

512
01:48:30.410 --> 01:48:55.410
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: Yes, and may I add something to this. But we were also very interested with our research, in particular, with the focus on the German context. But I guess we find this in a lot of context where we find, so that such a post fascist movements on the rise. What they actually doing is trying to rewrite history into German context, we find the right wing party. I, Fd, who is dealing a lot with memories.

513
01:48:55.410 --> 01:49:13.599
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: on a on on 1,989, 1990 to talking like completes a turn, or in I, the candidate was talking about. We have to Diamond Jack. Do you mind my granny? Size the city. This is interesting because, yeah, it's also

514
01:49:13.620 --> 01:49:15.429
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: kind of

515
01:49:16.220 --> 01:49:38.090
Jana Schäfer and Miriam Friz Trzeciak: It's always interesting to see who stories are being told and who stories are being left out, and also with our example, what we want to show like we always have find here, like these ideas of white supremacy, where, like the history of transnational work networks of immigration, but also in a Socialist case like anti colonial politics. blinded out.

516
01:49:39.190 --> 01:49:39.970
Hmm!

517
01:49:40.420 --> 01:50:06.950
Fabio Santos (he/him): So much for these. for for clarifying, maybe your your approach, and I think this speaks to all of the contributions right now wrapping up I think what you all did is like providing more complexity, maybe not to a traditional historical sociology, but to a historical sociology of the present or a mix between historical sociology and memory, studies

518
01:50:06.950 --> 01:50:13.290
Fabio Santos (he/him): also the the questions that came up. I really yeah, providing me with more

519
01:50:13.290 --> 01:50:37.780
Fabio Santos (he/him): inspiration. And then maybe next time, we should organize a more conceptual debate, also a panel on, on, on, on! How you know historical sociology could work with methods from memory studies, and vice versa. perhaps this should have come first. but we will have other occasions to do that. I think so. Thanks again for the contributions

520
01:50:37.780 --> 01:50:50.530
Fabio Santos (he/him): and and the questions, and for allowing me also to to conduct to 2 panels here at this in this Rc. And I guess it's time to close the session. Now, right?

521
01:50:51.570 --> 01:50:56.100
You see this. So thank you very much. And thanks to everybody.

522
01:50:56.300 --> 01:50:57.329
Thank you.