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presentation. So let me start the the today's morning.

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R. C. 56, open session. 2. My name is Thomas Zaritzki, and I am a professor at the University of Warsaw, in Poland, and and it's a great pleasure to.

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Well came you and

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and chair the

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session. I

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So we have. As I said, we have in the program 5 plantations, but but but 4 of us, 2 online and 2 in the room. And as

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so, I propose to have a general discussion at the end, and I can give you 20 min each. I will show 5 min in advance

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when time is lapsing. So so the first speaker will be

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Zhong zhi junk.

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hunk, John, and from sunny at the University of New or Cortland in Cotland, the United States.

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So please, the floor is yours. Thank you.

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Okay, thank you. Thank you for coming this session. Good morning and good afternoon. Good evening. Good night. Okay.

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So I am the first presenter of this session. Oh. this session is the R. C. 56 Historical Sociology Open Sessions. That means

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now it is hard to get in our sessions because it's open. But I order to you to open your mind from one of your euroscentry ideas what I call

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radical 60. Right? So today, I'd like to talk about ethnic, the nationalist mobilization of the global South in the long 20 fiftys, the sixtys.

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Okay, let's see.

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Okay, let's see.

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remembering the event of the 1968 has produces various type of demise

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of the era that attract the scholarship.

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So, notwithstanding introduction of the protest of the 1960 s. As a global event, all these scholarly work on the Radical 60 s.

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Okay. Began with the these things for cost of Europe and United States. Okay. So, for example.

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2 books, in anti-system movement and transforming the revolution. So, according to those 2 books, From those are the

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my

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the sociological, the foundation in my studies, 2 authors that the authors that indicate it is very well-known, but are very neuro-centric to Clover Lur's biased global Signal

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global signal dates, such as (178) 918-4819,

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1719 68, and the 1989 were the tribute of world-scale social movement. Right? Specifically, specifically the Are you, Hopkins and the Warlest in the author of entire system. We want to indicate it that the 1968 was a word revolution. And the other authors

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okay. Teddy Boswell and Christopher Chaston also drew a parallel between the 1,848, and 1,868, identifying them as the only 2 world revolutions.

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So there are so many critics about this kind of ideas, so pointing out the year the 1,968 or a little bit, the later 1,900 sixtys right to criticize about this idea. There are so many scholars try to extend

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the period

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now don't need rate 60. So it's longer period. For example, this move. Okay, so temporal scope of the sixties which previously focused on the rate 1960 s. Has been extended in into the long systems

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or or expansion of the geography.

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This kind of journal right, the scholars from different regions and the economic explains, expanded the special scope of the 1960 s.

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By examining sociopolitical activism and the cultural movement in the context of the global selves. Okay. however.

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however, the true significance of the 1960 s. As your cross regional event, and this extended the perspective can only

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be captured about a very active pieces of the

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struggles against colonialism and mobilization for the national liberation

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of the global South between the 1,900 fiftys and the sixtys. Right?

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So here is my questions. The year 1,968 is their ear of the world's transform.

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Is it this year's really account to explain the global revolutions, global social movement? So my study would like to be revisit the empirically, empirically, the conventional idea of the 1968 eurocentric, the radical 60 s. And the for the ruins, 60 s. By the periodicing the long 1950 s. Of the global South.

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So I would like to throw the popular protest in the global ourselves on the word historical perspective. Okay, to challenge this idea.

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So there are 3 research questions. First.

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do protest. So

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how to draw, how to draw the popular protest in the global cells on the world's historical perspective. Okay, to figure out that this pattern.

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So the mapping out. So I'd like to say more specific to 3 research questions. First, 1, 2 popular protests appears in closer, a close time and occasion when and where the key movement clusters

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a protest event heavily segmented by time and location.

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Second, what are the primary issues and the topics across purchase event? And how do they clutter by? Shared them?

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Third one

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are the protest waves that's distinguished by their zone in the world economy. The movement activities appeared in closer in semi-parallel, or the papal peripheral zones of the world. Economy.

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So I'd like to introduce my datasets. So I just collected it around the 2,500 and protest event. Theta from New York Times spending to 43 countries appeared in the New York Times in the global sales, I mean, yes, is 2,000 to 500 protest events, spending 43 countries reasons in the global sauce from the 1,870 to 2,016 in the New York Times.

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But, as you know, the New York Times edges of the

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the newspaper of the United States. So New York Times very historically embedded in the Us-centric selection bias you need to about this one. So here is the table. This is very brief summary of the my data set.

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So so here is my of primary finding. So I could identify that there are 4 great practiced waves in the long twentieth century, the center of the U. S. He hemony. So first one is

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the year between 1,927 to and 27 s. the year 1,946,

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and

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1,966. What I called long fiftys and third wave

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a year between 1,979

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and

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year 1,990, the last one, the only.

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the only 20 tenth right from 2,011 to 14. So.

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as you can see out this one, so the wrong 1950 S. Is very important. The long 1950 S. Shows the one of the most revolutionary period in the global South in the long twentieth century. Why, as you can see this chart here.

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Okay, so duration. the long time the protest waves in the low 1950 S. Had the, the the long durations, and also the in terms of the frequency of the protest event. This is almost

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It's about the 5,000 for test event happens. So, as you can see it is chart in the left side. So this is what I call the long 19 fifties to practice wave in the glo ourselves. So let's see this this year. So 1,968. And how about that this year this year is 1,950? A. So, according to my data.

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year 1,960,

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A is not important in the for the global South perspective, the year 1,900 eightys.

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1958 is very important. So

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so

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we need to change my our idea. Right? So let's move on to the other 10, this is the original diversity. So in the protest wave of the 1950 s. What I call the long, 1950 s. According to my data, so the Latin America is the the most share.

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the most protested event. reasons. Israel is around the 33%, and the next one is Asia. It's 31%. And the Mena, the Middle East and the Nursa

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Africa is around the 20%. Okay, this is the original distribution of the protest event in the 1950 s. About the next one.

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So if we search for the more specifically by the country, so I'd like to introduce the top 10 countries of a protest wave between the 1,946 to 66. Okay, the first one is to India right here. The second one is Argentina. Okay? Third, one, Algeria right, and the Cuba, Vietnam, the Brazil, China, Indonesia and Chile and South Africa. Right? So let's see, one by one. This is the

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they called country data, India, from the 1970 s. To 2,016. So here is the what I called in the long 1950 s. In India. Right about this one is Argentina, right? And the next one Algeria here, and the Cuba is here, and this one.

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okay, Vietnam is here

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right? And this is bedster. Right?

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So how about this one? This is for Brazil, right? And China is here, and Indonesia is here. Okay, it should be too late here and there. Lastly, here, right, this is ago. so by country. And let's move on to the next one team. What I

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we testing the research method, the team. So I classified the 2 primary categorization of the protest event. The first one is struggles against the exclusion, and that the other one is struggles against exploitation. If you didn't like to much about those kind of a classification or IP, I you able to to disting team

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the concept of a popular protest to see all my previous article. I'll least the last year about the word quarterly. Okay, 2,022. So, anyway. So if you can see the protest, popular protest in the long 1,900 fiftys.

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the the popular protest of the struggles against exclusions far way over. Okay.

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the struggles against exploitation to struggles against exclusion is from its dominatings around the 73%, and the struggles against the exploitations dominating so only 26%, 20 is under 27%.

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So those are very different from the global lord, because the as you can see, the global war. There are so many works, movements and strikes. So there are struggles against exploit exploitation. But if you can see the global South, so we can find. There are so many

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a of protest against about exclusions, including S. Immobilization. There's a males, mobilization, anti-colonialism for flight. And okay, anyway, specifically, the country, Algeria, Turkey, Vietnam, Iraq to South Korea. They showed they are dominating. It's horrible almost to 90

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about 90% of the struggle that we struggle against exclusion out of an entire popular protest about the other one, the struggles of the exploitation specifically the Latin American country. They show the more of the struggles against the exploitation. Okay.

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next one.

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Okay, this is about the economy structure of the world economy. So there are 2 kind of different. There are 3, okay, or according to the world system perspective, there are 3 kind of 3 zones of the work structure of the world economy, core category.

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and between the core and periphery. And my, so so global category is over the global global semi pediatry over the global category. So global categories about the 6% and the global peripheries around the 40%. So I'm going to explain, this one is more specifically in my upcoming

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book chapters. But anyway, so the global semi-paracle is specifically the who are contenders is 14%. And the opportunity is around the 46%. And the global category. Strong periphery is 25%, and the weak purple is working present.

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So but as you can see, the top 10 countries of the professed way to protest event between the 1940 s. Sixth and 1966.

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If you can see top 10 country, 7 countries out of the top, 10 countries. They are a semi-purpose country. Okay, so the semi-perpairy reason is very for thai ground for the ha to protest in the wrong. 1950. S. Okay.

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so here is the periodization, what I want to

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so long 1,900 fiftys. So he's a monic cycle. According to Giovanni Oregon. This is definitely tomatoes, expansion fees. And the he he he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he's he'

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the decolonization and the developmentalism and the main constraint to the dominant hegemonies, social power of suburb with subordinated groups and the major issues of the entire system. We want to. Anti-colonialism and their regional liberation, ethnic, Catholic tend to nationalist mobilization and the logic of a position of in the capitalist world economy. I can see the upward

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mobility to the Ukraine and my persecution.

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So the educational reference referential to protest cycle is correct. Action Day in India, 1,946.

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The Agenian world is very famous. Algeria is the cause of the

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the the, the Revolution, the 1,968 revolution in France. Definitely okay, and about the Kuban Revolution. I can see those kind of protest cycle could be a referential for the one of the 3 of the representative of protest event in the to explain the 19 long, 1,900 fiftys from developer cells. Okay, so here is conclusion

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of Communists and made conclusion. Okay.

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so in the global South, overall frequency of the protest event in the 1950, s. Is higher than the 1960 s.

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Second, the countries in the Latin America, in Asia, relative to this radical fifties of the global South, third, one, the most shared theme of a popular protest. What I call the struggles against Exclusion has been consistent in the long 50 s. For test waves

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in particular, the year between the 1,951 and 1,965 observed with the great ethnic Nationalist mobilizations in the countries of the global war, so such as Algeria, Vietnam, Cuba, and Indonesia

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before the radical sixes in the vulnerable serves global Lors. The struggles against

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exclusion of the global cells read to a global protest waves in the long eighties. So please remember the year 1,953,

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8, not 1968.

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Thank you. Thank you for my presentation.

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See?

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And

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and now I would like to invite Sara Koik linen, and from the University of Eastern Finland.

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So, Sarah, please, the floor is yours. You have the presentation applauded. I will try to start it

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for you.

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There it is.

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But this

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 What to do with this

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this?

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No, sir. Yeah.

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how do we?

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We don't need to have this captioning thing here, I guess.

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Okay.

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hello. So nice to be in this very lively discussion on open topics in sociological history.

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My topics is related to British colonial history, and it does contain some

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racism theme. So if anybody is very sensitive to those. Please be warned.

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Okay.

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I I get to the next one

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previous, like work with this.

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So

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 did you actually have something enabled in your thing. I just use it once, unless you

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just in the previous.

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the

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okay?

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So where

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at this one?

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Okay.

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where's our it, guy?

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So let's see. we can go. Yeah, we can go. We can go to here

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somehow. Conflicting.

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I'm super nice. But

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okay.

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I do.

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It's that that there's a conflicting program doing something. And then with podium, yeah, cause I might need to get the ladies for that, because they know more.

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Okay.

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okay, okay, yeah. Thank you. Okay, so

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to you. My presentation is related to the nineteenth century, when Priton was the undistributed world power ruling one quarter of the world's population.

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I, a 400 million people.

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and the coastal areas of the island of Sri Lanka, then known as Ceylon. We came under British rule in 1,796, and the candy and kingdom in the central mountainous regions in 1,815,

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and Ceylon had been a colonial.

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a place. Before that there was a Portuguese period and a Dutch period, but the British rule was very different. They created

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an atmospheric system, built schools, churches, copy, and tea plantations, drastically changed. A society consolidated, a separate and unified territory of governance in the island police the movement of peoples, and created new ethnic divisions by classifying the residents differently.

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and the British, the Colonial Zealand, was the resource that was to be exploited as a source of wealth, along with many other ecstatic farms. Oil places under the British rule. It was also used as a metaphor on the island Paradise, or New Eden in the Colonial and travel literature of the Era

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trial books, but gave the European reading published a sense of ownership to this on land

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that were explored, invaded, and invested in, and they were a key instrument in creating the domestic subject of empire.

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And I just like to point out that the photos displayed here are mostly from these images of salon.com

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website, and they are nineteenth century images of the island.

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So the Victorian era that I'm talking about doesn't only refer to the time of Queen Victoria's rain, but also the cultural period. Starting from late Romanticism in the 1930 S. Or even earlier.

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and an estimated 50,000 volumes were published during this Victorian era by after 3,500 writers. We know Charles Dickens and the like, but also on these islands and colonial contexts

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and bibliography of still on lists up to 300 nineteenth century English language publications that deal either partly or wholly with this island of Sri Lanka. So it was a very popular place to write travel literature on as well.

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and the production of knowledge of the colonized was an important part of the practice of nineteenth century. British colonialism also in Sri Lanka.

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military conquest was followed by the production of legislamising the cultural construct which promoted the consolidation of the Empire. These included political treaties, diaries, administrative records, letters, maps, newspaper articles, and books.

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and at that time overall the interest in travel and travel, literature flourished.

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Travel in the European continent was becoming possible for many more members of the British Society than before, and yet travel accounts from places like India, Sri Lanka, the Pacific, or Africa, could still belong to the real of Utopian dreams, and they helped feed the desire for the exotic among those living back home in Britain.

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This present presentation is based on the 5 autobiographical books written by 5 British colonialist men on the island of Sri Lanka in the 1920 s. To 1850 S.

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They worked in the Sri Lankan colonial administration moved to the island as settlers looking for their fortunes, or traveled there to explore the island.

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Mary Louis Pratt has used the term contact zone to describe the space of imperial encounters, the space in which peoples, geographically and historically separated come into contact with each other and establish ongoing relations

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involving conditions of coercion, radical inequality, and intractable conflict. So these are texts form in this context, conduct zone.

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And for this presentation the research questions are, how do the writers define the colonial other? And how do they view the local culture? What kind of Utopian divisions do they have for the island.

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And what kind of critique, if any, of the colonial system do their books contain? And these are just briefly, the the authors. I'm not going to go into detail because of time concerns. But there's John Davy, a physiologist.

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He's like the earliest rider. Then there's James Campbell, an army lieutenant Colonial commandant, an agent

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of the British Government. the green book that has 2 volumes.

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and then there's William Knighton, a schoolmaster and a copy planter, Henry Jones, Sir lawyer, diplomat, and Deputy Queen's Advocate.

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and so Samuel White Baker, the Red Book.

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who is the most well known of the authors. He is an explorer and an officer there, and he later on to move on to Africa, and is said to be the first European to visit Lake Albert, for example, he also wrote another book

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about Sri Lanka.

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so colonial discourses of the nineteenth century, a dramatic change took place in the sphere of knowledge, and in the epistem of Western European thought in the

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turn of the nineteenth century history and technology, as fears of knowledge in a way that could not have been possible earlier.

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And these 5 books. Books analyzed in this presentation thus belong to an age where man has for the first time appeared as an object of knowledge, and a subject that knows

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these developments had an impact on how the island of Sri Lanka is portrayed in these colonial texts

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during the first wave of European colonial expansion from the 15 to the seventeenth century. Non-europeans were typically described as pagans as incomplete and in perfect. The ship from our religiously framed colonialism to a more natural historical approach emphasized the distinctness of people in their character and physique, and the idea of different races developed.

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So the the relatively benevolent discourse of the eighteenth century changed into the overly racist colonialism of the nineteenth century.

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and in colonial text the concept of savagery and civilization are not mere descriptions of social facts, but discursive formulations that construct rather than only describe, the subject matter. Therefore the very language of the civilizing mission costs the indigenous populations in the relationship of superior with inferior

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am. Duncan has listed 3 discourses that fundamentally shape the practice of colonialism in Sri Lanka. These include the discourse of the tropics of racial difference, and of the Us. Of government.

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The tropical world was seen variably as a paradise of abundance or a hell on earth of disease and degeneration. If Europeans hoped to transform the tropics into viable colonies and base their plans on environmental determination which led to moralistic judgments about people's own places.

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For the Victorian mentality. Racism was the common sense view of educated people who considered themselves enlightened and aware of the empirical observations of the sciences of anthropology, geography, for example.

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and other types of colonial knowledge.

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It was also common to think of colonial rule that colonial rule must be despotic and paternal rather than democratic, and thus oppressive measures of control were justified.

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So about the books encountering the other in a beautiful island. This is illustrations from from one of the books analyzed. sir, from 1950

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the Colonial Society was divided into the worlds of the Europeans and of the natives. The colonial period also changed the positions. Each group of people on the island held in comparison with all the other groups.

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Sri Lanka Board was a very. It had a diverse population because of the previous colonial history, and also being a hub of international international commerce.

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So there were different groups of natives.

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The brightest main focus is in describing the British society and life in the island. The Logos are usually only servants and other supporting actors in this story.

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Their attitudes are paternalistic and even outright racist. The other is described as devious, lazy jet, like ugly of from colour, and as having incomprehensible and strange habits that do not match European rational standards.

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Many of the books start with an opening paragraph where the the author arrives to the island and describes the extremely subling beauty of what they encounter, and then goes on to say that then this

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natives arrive and start selling us things, and and

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use very directed language, describing

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the people that they encounter in this paradise.

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and there are 3 themes in how the native, the other is described.

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The natives are portrayed and portrayed either as children of nature or inners, and children of nature.

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The local culture is often seen through its great past, and unfortunately deteriorated present.

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and the island is an object that can be developed and changed.

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and

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so show examples of these, and then also some descriptions of the island as a potential paradise.

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this is from John Davis book. It's the the first one, and it's kind of the most anthropological one. If we can think of that, he's saying that the people the natives, are in as some children of nature. The probability is that they are much the same now that they were 300 years ago. That they were then very similar to what they are in ages proceeding.

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So he sees their culture as something that was kind of stuck in the past, had some elements that were interesting, and he spends quite a lot of time describing these bad culture and practices and habits because he thinks it's something fresh and original. But in a few years it will be all turned or forgotten.

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and, if not recorded, now lost, perhaps forever.

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 In this clip James Campbell describes natives of children who need paternal guidance.

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The good people at home will no doubt be told of all the blessings which we are conferring upon the happy candy, and how much they will be ultimately benefited from being brought under our mild and paternal rule.

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and that such are our our intentions, they cannot be a doubt at the present. Few of none of the natives understand or can appreciate, our motives as their natural and confirmed habits, deep cunning and delight in deception, and their relentlessness about religion of any kind.

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So He sees them as

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people who children who need

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father holds the stern and brings them

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to what in betterment.

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And so James Baker describes the island through the local history. The ancient history of Zealand is involved in much obscurity, but nevertheless, we have sufficient data in the existing traces of its former population.

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So anything

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grandiose or excellent bound in the island must be the product of somebody else, not the current population who lives there.

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the one who remains of ancient cities, tanks, and water causes throughout the island, all proved that the now desolate regions were tenanted by a multitude, not of savages, but of race long since passed away, full of industrial intelligence. So there was kind of a different population that produced this

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excellent situation there.

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and the island is an object which can be developed unchanged from also Baker and Campbell. The government should therefore, hazard this one experiment to induce the immigration of the industrial class of Chinese to the shows of Selord.

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So, because the locals are so untrusted and lazy, they should. The British should import Chinese people to build the island. Also Campbell refers to bringing in other populations. He he's suggesting that black Africans should be transported the island as workers.

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What a pity that such a fine and apparently fertile land should be allowed to remain in its first and uncultimated state. If engagement were given to by a wise government. It may indeed be said that the desert could be made to bosom like the rose.

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and in contrast to these descriptions of the natives. But I'm not seen as

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well. They they are seen through this racialized

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a negative image. The island itself is beautiful and full of promise.

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Sarah explains first-like language is inaccurate to convey a faithful project of the exquisite scenery. Truly Oriental image character that abounds in the cinnamon aisle, the poet's plume and painter's pencil being alone calculated for the purpose.

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Present a picture of all that is sublim and lovely in nature. So they see a lot of potential in the beautiful island.

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and also Nightton explains the views afforded by the wider river estuaries on the road from Ga to Colombo, particularly as one approaches the latter town are strikingly beautiful as an example of what might be called landscape garden scenery.

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It is pictures as well as beautiful. so they are not

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 saving their words in the same. Yeah.

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So some conclusions. The writers note problems in the island.

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They criticised the colonial current colonial administration, and the present British colonial policy, or the current governor of the island.

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The crops fail.

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Their grand plans fail. Nothing really works as as they. They think things should work. But this doesn't lead to a critique of the idea of colonialism itself or the idea. But they might be wrong in this idea that they can just come here and think that they can change things.

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So the critique stays

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within the the current present situation.

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and the difference is that the writers saw between themselves the enlightened Europeans and the primitive natives, who are focused either on the differences concerning their habits and character, or their religion. They especially talk about demon worship, which is

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practice in the island, how that is utterly despicable. That these kind of practices exist.

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The British see themselves as industrious, rational, and civilized, and the natives accessionally different by character, as indolent, backward, primitive, and reluctant to adopt new ideas.

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But this course of the books cooperate with the idea of progress. The travels of the present are overcome, and a Utopia, a man-made paradise can be constructed to Sri Lanka

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and the Utopia. That these travel writers want to transform Sri Lanka into is formed from these 2 discourses.

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and it differs from the Utopias of the sixteenth and seventeenth century, when it was seen as a return to the original natural state of man.

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Islands have been thought of as Paradise of Utopia also, before they are an empty canvas upon which

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to imagine the strange and beautiful, as well as progress or change. One reason for this is their shape.

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Bow in this boundedness makes Ireland's graspable able to be held in the mind's eye, and imagined as places of possibility and promise.

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Of course India was also part of Britain at the time, but it was big and chaotic, whereas Sri Lanka is small and sort of comprehensible.

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So it's an easier place to imagine that you can change. So these 5 books analyzed, belong and display 2 different discourses. In the discourse of colonial reasoning. The books are part of the production of knowledge on the colonized, through which the power can define, classify, and appropriate the culture of the island.

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and then, in the discourse of travel and and Utopia, they aim to entertain domestic audiences who were enthusiastic consumers of travel accounts, and who yearn to learn about adventures abroad in ecstatic locations.

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And if the travel accounts analyzed in the study, the Utopia they describe is clearly a Utopia of progress. Not a Utopia of primitivism, as in the accounts of previous centuries. is Utopia, which will need a lot of work under the right government.

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will be like England, only a bit of better climate, beautiful nature, and with ideal surroundings for the Europeans to start life afresh.

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And then some sources. Thank you.

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Okay.

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you you remember. So

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and

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 one

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 our, our.

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our long

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participants.

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They should be here.

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Matthew Waites: I'm I'm here ready to speak.

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Okay, but we don't. We would like to see you.

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yeah. But this this doesn't. Can you call the guy

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because you are ready

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made things more difficult that they were. I know how to start, but

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sorry I, Matthew has its own presentation, so we don't.

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Yes, me, too.

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Matthew Waites: Yes, I have my own.

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Okay, that oh, listen! Can I? Can I share my own screen

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who

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please try to do so if you can. We can not see this. It's not enabling me at the moment it says another part.

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we cannot see the people of a zoom.

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Matthew Waites: it's

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somebody you need to stop sharing the screen at the moment. Yeah.

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okay, all right. So we can reset it. Now, we may also reset screen

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because I met you. The speaker will depend on yeah. Okay. And then we 20? Yeah. there's a so I can you

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Matthew Waites: like.

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I do, I need to stop sharing information. Okay? So you you can share. Now, I'm doing it.

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And there we go. Great, we see it so good, and thank you very much. So the next speaker is Matthew B. Way from University of Glasgow. So please, Matthew, you have 20 min.

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Matthew Waites: Thank you very much. It's great to be with everyone, and great to be among other really interesting papers, my

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Matthew Waites: papers title is the British Empire's regulation of sexuality.

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Matthew Waites: sexualities and genders beyond heteronormativity. global historical sociology, and the queer analysis of colonialism

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Matthew Waites: and

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Matthew Waites: the slide. You're seeing just to comment on the the diagram on the left.

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Matthew Waites: this is just to start you thinking about the concept of the Imperial web

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Matthew Waites: which is a concept used by Tony Valentine in a book called Webs of Empire.

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Matthew Waites: And so if you think about the spider's web as a a useful metaphor for thinking about the relationship between the European Colonial Metropol

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Matthew Waites: at the center and relations to colonized territories and the key. I I mean various ideas in the idea of the the imperial web.

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Matthew Waites: but so one would be that threads can be so usually spun from the center to the periphery, but can be spun in the other direction.

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Matthew Waites: But another key idea is that

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Matthew Waites: threads can be spun horizontally.

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Matthew Waites: so you can have movements between different territories

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Matthew Waites: different colonized territories. So that's an idea I'll draw on.

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Matthew Waites: So

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Matthew Waites:  This presentation is is really a chapter in progress for a book in progress.

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Matthew Waites: The book will be titled colonialisms and queer politics, sexualities, genders, and unsettling colonialities.

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Matthew Waites: And this will be coed by Sonya Correa, of sexuality policy watch based in Brazil, Gustavo Gomez de Costa, who's at the Federal University of Panambuko, in Brazil, and myself, based in the Uk.

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Matthew Waites: And the book will be published by Oxford University Press. It will offer comparison of both historical colonialisms and contemporary colonialities.

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Matthew Waites: in relation to 11 different empires associated with eurocentrism.

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Matthew Waites: So this presentation represents very much work in progress. Chapters concerning the 11 empires are each being authored by one or 2 authors

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Matthew Waites: with expertise from a global team in which approximately half the authors are from formally colonized contexts.

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Matthew Waites: and the study will focus on 11 empires, Portuguese, Spanish, British, French, Dutch, Belgian, German, Italian.

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Matthew Waites: the Russian, Ottoman, and United States, and the final 3 of those we're considering as marginal cases in relation to Eurocentrism. They may move in and out of association with eurocentrism in in different periods in ways that we think are analytically revealing. One.

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Matthew Waites: 2 of the comparative chapters by the editors will offer comparison of colonial histories and of current legacies.

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Matthew Waites: and we're interested in both sexualities and genders. And we're

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Matthew Waites: considering how eurocentric norms of heterosexuality and the gender Binary

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Matthew Waites: relate to imperial regulation of colonized societies

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Matthew Waites: Mit, Ctl. And so for each empire, we need to consider both legal regulation and also broader social regulations. So I'm going to use the concept social regulation in a very broad, loose way to include a whole range of issues, including religion, education, biopolitics, basically everything that's not legal one.

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Matthew Waites:  and

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Matthew Waites: we also need to consider how indigenous people's resistances are very importantly shaped colonial regulation in certain ways.

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Matthew Waites: So the theoretical framework for the project situates itself in relation to both global historical sociology and post-colonial and decolonial studies.

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Matthew Waites:  engaging the and tested relationship between these approaches.

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Matthew Waites: So we're particularly influenced by go and Lawson's book, Global Historical Sociology from 2,017,

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Matthew Waites: which argues that there's a current third wave of global historical sociology distinctively. in which

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Matthew Waites: there's displacement of nation states as analytical units in favor of imperial nation states associated with empires, and that these are linked through trans boundary processes.

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Matthew Waites:  we also note that post-colonial and decolonial studies are continuing to generate critical research, including on sexualities and genders. For example, in the volume Decolonizing sexualities edited by Bakshi at Al.

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Matthew Waites: Now these 2 approaches global historical sociology and Post-colonial and decolonial studies have already been drawn together in post-colonial sociology. for example, by Julian go, and by Gaminda Bambra

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Matthew Waites: But our project seeks to contribute to create a dialogue between these approaches, and we're conscious of differences, for example, between post-colonial and decolonial theories and decolonization approaches in indigenous studies, such as the work of Tuk and Yang, their well-known essay. Decolonization is not a message for

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Matthew Waites: We're also drawing on history, including the idea of the imperial web from Valentine, which I've mentioned.

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Matthew Waites: Now, when we're thinking about these empires.

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Matthew Waites: very broadly, we're thinking about 2 temporalities of European colonialisms. So in the first temporality, from roughly the fifteenth century to the early nineteenth century.

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Matthew Waites: we see an era of maritime expansion, led by private interests, with mercantilism articulated with Christian religion and pre-scientific forms of racism.

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Matthew Waites: whereas from the mid nineteenth century to the 1970 s. We see an era of imperial nation, state organized colonization, and including increasing settlement

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Matthew Waites: negotiating between

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Matthew Waites: private, corporate and Christian influences.

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Matthew Waites:  industrial capitalism as central scientific forms of racism, the the concept of the new imperialism.

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Matthew Waites: ideas of civilizing mission associated with social progress and modernity.

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Matthew Waites:  And I will use the concept of colonialities from Kiano. But also the concept of legacies as a slightly broader and more flexible

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Matthew Waites: concept, as I'm arguing in a forthcoming tactical in a book called Living Legacies, which will be coming out from

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Matthew Waites: living legacies of social and justice.

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Matthew Waites: So thinking about the British Empire in queer perspective to just very quickly consider existing literature. So there are substantial existing literature, but

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Matthew Waites: not so much that attempts any kind of overview of the British Empire in these respects

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Matthew Waites: and much of what exists focuses on legal issues. So the key Human Rights Watch Report. This alien legacy told the story of how sodomy laws were extended first from 150,

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Matthew Waites: section 377 of the Indian Penal Code to other colonized Territories.

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Matthew Waites: the co-ed volume edited by myself with Corinne Lennox, called Human Rights, Sexual Orientation and Gender. Identity in the Commonwealth.

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Matthew Waites: addressed the contemporary legacies of this in relation to the Commonwealth.

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Matthew Waites: and the volume by Han and Omahone in 2,018 British colonialism, and the regulation of homosexuality

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Matthew Waites: also tended to focus on legal regulation.

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Matthew Waites: Erez Agmoni, Aldrich's important study. Colonialism and homosexuality in history by contrast, focuses on social regulation. But does that looking at specific regions, especially Australia, North Africa. Some of the Pacific Islands. 2.

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Matthew Waites: That lacks a macro structural

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Matthew Waites: kind of more sociological type analysis or focus on the legal issues. So the idea of this paper is to offer a new overall narrative of the British Empire's regulation of queer lives that will bring legal and social regulation

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Matthew Waites: together.

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Matthew Waites: So thinking about the beginnings of the the British Empire. It's useful to start with the United Kingdom's Imperial formation in the sixteenth century.

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Matthew Waites: So we can think about how King Henry the Eighth

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Matthew Waites: oversaw the creation of of buggery laws in new statutes which were in a context linked to the English Reformation, where He famously split from the Catholic Church, and created the Church of England.

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Matthew Waites: So his chief minister, the Protestant Thomas Cromwell. formulated Buggery laws, which were used as a tool to pressurize Catholic monks in the monasteries.

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Matthew Waites:  Now this all was taking place in the context of Imperial war against Catholic Ireland.

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Matthew Waites:  that involved aspects of racialization of people.

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Matthew Waites: Celtic peoples.

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Matthew Waites: One. So we see in this era an emergence of what I suggest are problematic proximities. To use a phrase from Sara Ahmed between notions of sexual, religious, and racial, and national other nuts, so 150

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Matthew Waites: these can't be seen as

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Matthew Waites: deeply intertwined at this point, that they they kind of set up certain relationships of other in which could be taken forward in different ways at different points in the future.

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Matthew Waites: turning to the Americas, and what's been called the First British Empire in the America's

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Matthew Waites: looking to the west from

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Matthew Waites:  from the the English and Scottish perspective.

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Matthew Waites:  a central thing I want to do in this narrative is to complicate the existing story of criminalization. So criminalization of same-sex acts by the British Emperor is usually thought to begin in 1,862 in India with the Indian Penal Code.

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Matthew Waites: However, my argument is that we need to think about the long history of slavery in the British Empire from the 1640 s. With slavery as an institution of total control. Through violence and legal control

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Matthew Waites: of sexuality and gender in the lives of enslaved peoples. Although

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Matthew Waites: I suggest with some contradictory queer effects which are suggested by the work of Hortense Spillers. So In terms of criminalization, we we need to sort of think about slavery as as part of the narrative of

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Matthew Waites: criminalization of queer lives.

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Matthew Waites: I also argue that there's evidence of English buggery laws being applied early in Caribbean colonies, for example, in 1,679 in Jamaica.

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Matthew Waites: So this also tends to so shift the

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Matthew Waites: origins of such legal regulation to an earlier point and to the West, rather than seeing that as beginning in India.

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Matthew Waites: so I should, I should say my chapter is sort of organized in a series of regional sections which are presented in ways that sort of correspond to a kind of chronological

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Matthew Waites: narrative of how the British Empire shifted territorially and in focus at different points.

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Matthew Waites: so, turning to India. Indian Penal Code of Section 377

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Matthew Waites: criminalized

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Matthew Waites: carnal intercourse against the order of nature. But we also need to think about wider criminalization processes, for example, how Hisjar people were criminalized through the criminal tribes act from 1,871.

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Matthew Waites: Then, thinking about the social aspects of regulation.

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Matthew Waites: We need to think about how, in earlier periods of the British in India, marriages of British men with Indian women were taking place.

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Matthew Waites:  so it's only really from the the later nineteenth century

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Matthew Waites: that there was a shift

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Matthew Waites: from

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Matthew Waites: that context to increasing racial, gender and sexual boundaries, especially from the late nineteenth century. And In the Victorian period, with with growing Christian influence.

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Matthew Waites: Now I'm skipping a

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Matthew Waites: through a discussion of Australia here and moving on.

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I have 5 min.

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Matthew Waites: Thank you.

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Matthew Waites:  So, turning to Africa, if we think about the scramble for Africa from the 1,800 eightys.  taking the the example, I I the example of Kenya to

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Matthew Waites: to explore, and I've done some archival work in relation to

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Matthew Waites: Kenya. So we see the Indian Penal Code being transferred directly to Kenya from 1,897, which we can think of in relation to Valentine's imperial web. That idea of horizontal transfers

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Matthew Waites: and subsequently the Kenyan Penal Code of 1,930 was based on the Griffith code from Queensland in Australia.

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Matthew Waites: which also prohibited same-sex act.

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Matthew Waites: However, I argue that customary law needs to be taken into account in narratives of criminalization, and this has been missing in some existing

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Matthew Waites: accounts. in terms of social regulation.

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Matthew Waites:  Protestant missionary work in schools was very important, and there was a sort of idea in the British Empire of civilisation through education

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Matthew Waites: erez agmoni, which somewhat contrasted with the lesser emphasis on education. For example, in the Portuguese Catholic schooling system. So I would argue that this protested missionary works sets up a a context of 150.

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Matthew Waites: religion being internalized or or interpolated, or working through subjectivation. in ways that had significant consequences.

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Matthew Waites: Now, turning to the present colonialities and legacies from all this legally, we still have extensive criminalization in 35 and 56 commonwealth States.

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Matthew Waites: despite some exceptional decriminalizations in

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Matthew Waites: context, such as the Bahamas, India in 2,018, and Botswana in 2,019.

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Matthew Waites: on the

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Matthew Waites: are also instances where there were specific criminalizations of trans people through laws against cross-dressing, as in Guyana.

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Matthew Waites: in terms of social regulation. The British missionary schooling through

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Matthew Waites: with Protestant Christianity, has had

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Matthew Waites: lasting effects and has created a context receptive to recent evangelical Christian movements in Africa. Especially Pentecostalism, as discussed by, for example, capiocaoma in his work about Uganda.

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Matthew Waites: Now a key point I want to make, as I move to conclude is that what we've seen

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Matthew Waites: mit Ctl. And in recent years, especially since 2,011, is the emergence of Lgbtq plus transnational networks engaging the Commonwealth as a kind of political opportunity structure. 2

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Matthew Waites: organizations emerging like the Commonwealth Equality Network kaleidoscope trust, human Dignity Trust. I've called this in my work, the new London-based transnational politics of LGBT human rights.

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Matthew Waites: So concluding.

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Matthew Waites: I think it's interesting to reflect on how, on the one hand, criminalization of same sexual acts can be challenged using human rights discourse so that that coloniality into plays with human rights as a kind of macro level, global structure, a discursive structure, if you like.

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Matthew Waites: but, on the other hand, the Protestant Christian legacy is, is not possible to challenge through that global human rights framework that it requires other forms of challenge. So I would argue that the the contrast between legal discrimination and religious discrimination

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Matthew Waites: it shows how the different legacies of colonialisms into play with other international social structures, especially human rights in complex ways. And when we compare this to other empires, like the Portuguese, this leads to systematically different patterns of contestation and outcomes.

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Matthew Waites: So, for example, in the Portuguese case, we've seen comprehensive decriminalization in all the form of Portuguese colonies in Africa.

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Matthew Waites: So to conclude the current third wave of global historical sociology identified by Go and law and helps us.

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Matthew Waites: together with post-colonial sociology, which is intertwined with helps us to see that how trans boundary processes are still operating within colonial frames in significant ways, in contemporary global queer politics. Thank you.

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Thank you very much, Matthew, so we will move now to the last, but not least. in presenter Fabio Santos from Frye in the West Side, Berlin in Germany. Hmm, so do you have your presentation?

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Yes, I'm on your computer. Yes, I'm going to share my

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great. And you made them about this time with all the external. We are getting smart. It's harder. It's amazing great. So Fab, your. The floor is yours.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Wonderful! Many thanks to Thomas for you, and also to manufacturer, who, I think, is not with us now. for organizing and and sharing this open session. And and now it's open. There seems to be some internal logic. At least I could see some

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Fabio Santos (he/him): threads that I can maybe connect to like. I also work with the concept of the contact zone. that's that I was mentioning also I mean archives, but I mean reading the Archive critically.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): And then also Matthew's work on the Web of Empire reminded me pretty much of this whole literature on entangled histories. and I'm also gonna draw on. So yeah, it's an open session, but with with cohesion.

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Fabio Santos (he/him):  Now, in my contribution to the session. I want to. Yeah. Provocatively pushed against

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Fabio Santos (he/him): the limits of the archive, introducing critical fabulation as a radical imaginative form of source analysis which asks fundamental questions as to the fidelity to the archive, and also the violence connected through it. And here kinship and slave ships serve as interdependent empirical entry points

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Fabio Santos (he/him): to explore. some questions. So what are Archival materials? Evidence of? And how can we fill in for archival absences for people and story? and stories that are made absent that do not even appear with their own voices in archives.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): How do we narrate from a place of silence, from a possibility of sources, and what is considered valid historical practice? Really.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): now, in the critical literature. on the topic. It is no news, to state that as centuries long and continent and spending processes of violence.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): enslavement, and the trade enslaved, women and men and children have dramatically formed transformed social structures, including, of course, kinship ties across the Atlantic and beyond

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and throughout this admittedly admittedly abridged paper. I posit an interdependence between kinship and slave ship, and the latter encapsulating the really the broader system of violence that enslavement and the trade and enslave people have come to represent, pregnant with as many dead as living under the sentence of death as it was now has so aptly put it

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Fabio Santos (he/him): so. If kinship is an institution fundamental for structuring inter personal relations, while at the same time requiring some sort of group stability.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): then its meaning and the concrete social practices related to it. have extremely altered. On and through the slave ship our family uprooting on and through the slave ship has been highlighted also at different peaks of abolitionist and sociological thinking, including very rare autobiographical accounts, such as the one of Mary Prince who have been enslaved for most of her life in the Caribbean before gaining legal freedom and chronicling her autobiography in Britain.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): It's also been emphasized in the work in the early sociological work. by Du Bois, who wrote of the quote, unquote, complete, crushing out of the African clan and family life.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): through the trade and enslaved people. And of course there is a there's a rich literature. that has highlighted this. This topic. rooted in black feminist sociologists and writers more generally. including Angela Davis.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): for 10 pillars, Tony Morrison, Rhoda Reddock, Jennifer Morgan say Dia Hartman, and and many more. and it's likely no coincidence that these critical contributions come from black scholars who, in one way or another, all lamented the difficulty in adequately writing or rewriting this theme.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Given the structural lack of sources, and the empiricist obsession with objective sources by historians or by extension by Some historical sociologists.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): so

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Fabio Santos (he/him): not necessarily tied to kinship and slave ship, but in general terms the question of historical representation. So what counts as qualified knowledge?

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Fabio Santos (he/him): has occupied scholars from different disciplines for several decades. One of the most important or influential lessons in etymology was certainly offered by Michel Foucault, who's archival view. He rests on an understanding of discursive formations as systems of dispersion.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): So serial school of gaps intertwined with one another, interplace of differences, distances, substitutions, transformations, Hebrides.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and this who code in conception anticipated, then, of course, later critiques and interventions, including the sociology of absences.

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Fabio Santos (he/him):  but also anthropological research on the power and balances at work in the creation of archival sources and narratives that are then based on these sources. as Michelle. What to you has so wonderfully shown in silence in the past.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Slavery is a ghost, he wrote. Both the past and the living presence, and the problem of historical representation is how to represent the ghost something that is. And here it is not

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Fabio Santos (he/him): so. Not only is that goes so. Not only does that ghost evade the historical record while being there all the time, even if only elusively, fugitively.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Also that goes, haunts us to this very day. So, both in terms of how to historicize it adequately and in terms of how to better understand the long lasting shadow it casts on to dates, racialized inequalities. So what Matthew has termed coloniality, or the legacies

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Now, in the case of enslavement.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and proposed that if we choose to read along the archival grain, so within the established methods of the discipline, then we should read along the archival buyer's brain. So that's used in analogy to the tatering practice.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): where in the fabric is made more more elastic. So the archive, in a sense, is is stretched. It allows for an expansive interpretation of the records while retaining the historical integrity of the documents.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): she described it also as a way of reading between the lines, reading for fragments. And wants to.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Yeah, right? enslaved like people, especially like women back into history, even when there's no explicit or very limited archival representations of them, not to mention even documents by them.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): therefore, even though, or because maybe, the agency of the enslaved, especially enslaved women, is extremely limited in the context of enslavement, and the archive that mis represents it.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): The agency, she argues, needs to be handed over to the responsible historian, or, in our case, to the historical sociologists. now, this would require self understanding of global historical sociology or his sociological scholarship as a sort of engaged scholarship, technical endeavor for its ecological plurality and justice.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): So it would not, or it would be less an endeavor of recounting the history supposedly accurately, by other citation

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Fabio Santos (he/him): off

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Fabio Santos (he/him): allegedly self explanatory historical records that really only give them the surface of of what actually happened, or what could have happened, and this use of the conditional conditional perfect. What might have happened?

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Fabio Santos (he/him): rings, alarm bells for conventional historiography, and in ushers. say, Ed Hartman's method of critical fibulation and her textual writing mode that can perhaps be best

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Fabio Santos (he/him): described as historical poetics.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): So the sheer magnitude of fugitive information on the topic prompted her to counter the archival violence. With the very measured, very limited use of imagination

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Fabio Santos (he/him): she developed the method of critical fabulous in her. 2,008 Seminole article, Venus into Acts building on the chapter the Dead book. from her monograph.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Who's your mother, which was published the year before, and in that chapter. she writes of a black teenage girl who in 19, in Sorry, in 1,791 was tortured to death on the British slave ship recovery by its captain, John Kimber, most likely because she had refused to dance naked for him.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): The ship sailed from Nu Kalabar in West Africa to Granada, in the Caribbean.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and in this case the case of the flog girl, whose name we do not know, because there are no records of it. This case grew to prominence, because abolitionists really will. Before this, gave a speech on that death

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Fabio Santos (he/him): on the murder, half of you later to the British Parliament. And so it became central to the debate on the abolition of the trade and enslaved people.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): But Hartmann argues that this case is kind of isolated. She recalls that you later year after writing the first piece and says that it actually also silences the death of 19 enslaved men who had died prior to the girl on the recovery, and also that of another girl who died on board of the Recovery, and who, in the ship's crew, called Venus.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): So Hartman critiques herself for not having given Venus also more space in her previous book.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and thus being complicit in silencing her due to academic conventions, she writes.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): I chose not to tell the story about Venus, because to do so would have just passed the boundaries of the archive history pledges to be faithful to the limits of fact, and archive, even as those death certainties are produced by Terra. Now, to overcome the violence of the archive, she develops critical, fabulous

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Fabio Santos (he/him): as a method based on uncertainty, but making that uncertainty also transparent within the text. So she invents a single detail on the recovery.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and that detail is that of the sailor who confirms or who testifies that the 2 girls, Venus and the other girl, seemed like this. So she writes.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): picture them, the relics of 2 girls, one trail in the other, plundered in a sense. A sailor called side of them, and later said they were friends. 2. Well, those girls found a country in each other's arms beside the defeat and the terror. There would be this, too, the glimpse of beauty, the instant of possibility.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Now we know from anthropological work. works for example, by Sydney Mince and Richard Price, but also by the sociological work of Orlando Peters, and that such dietic same-sex friendships that resemble brotherhood or sisterhood, where not at all are fetched during the middle passage, but also afterwards. So

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Fabio Santos (he/him): what I want to say is that the detail, the little detail that is invented.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): does actually come close to the lived realities at the time.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Now, in this final part of

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Fabio Santos (he/him): my presentation, I would like to draw attention to yet another application of critically and poetically reading against the archival grain.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): not in history or sociology, but in visual arts, which I propose actually as another entry point for the historical sociology of enslavements. And it's after maths. So looking at how in different media forms, history is represented, how it's being excavated. I think that's that's a very especially in light of such scars

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Fabio Santos (he/him): sources that gets a fruitful approach. So I'm gonna very briefly just draw attention to the work of Levon Bell. who has crafted many more historically informed artworks than I can mention here. So let me just zoom in on her. One of her latest work works, which is in the place of shadows.

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Fabio Santos (he/him):  this is an audio visual poetic essay in which the Crucian art is so crushening from the Caribbean island of Saint Troy, in which she traces and imagines the force, displacement of Victor and Alberta, Victor and Alberta were to have siblings from that islands and Croy today. It's the Us. Colony belonging to the Us. Virgin Islands

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Fabio Santos (he/him): in which the 2 half siblings had been caged and exhibited.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Yes, that will work. Thank you.

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Fabio Santos (he/him):  So she traces the.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): The. The history of these 2 have siblings back at the time. It was a Danish colony. and who had been transported, then caged and exhibited as part of the 1905

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Colonial Exhibition in Copenhagen.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): in the video, in the artwork. the artist lens visuals so archival material and images from the island.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): with her own voice from the off, speaking directly to Alberta and Victor, so she addresses them.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and as a light motif in her work, as in much of black Atlantic history and arts. is.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): of course, the ocean.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): and she says the ocean holds stories that she will not find in history books, but it's history nonetheless. And so she explains to Victor and Alberta and to the audience by extension, that the fleeting fragments in the colonial archives. So she went to the archives in Copenhagen.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Didn't you know, unearth anything new? What hasn't already been said? It does. Didn't bring her closer to the left. Experiences of these half siblings.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Quote. I stopped searching for you, because in the traces left in Denmark there were only shadows. What I didn't know yet is that I could make my own. So

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Lavon Bell maps herself visually and textually into the artwork, and thus also into the history of enslavement. And it's racist after mass.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): that still unfold today. so of which colonial exhibitions, such as the one she mentions or she she zoom in on, is only one striking example.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): She mobilizes her own childhood memories of racism and objectification on the Us. Mainland, to place herself in the long period, so to speak, of enslavement and its aftermath, detailing how, upon moving to Wisconsin for a year. As a child with her family she was also stared at. not in a colonial exhibition, of course, but, for example, is that of a white classroom, a predominantly white classroom

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Fabio Santos (he/him): where she was stared at

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Fabio Santos (he/him): like an alien. Nonetheless. So she she recounts, instead of paying attention to the teacher, they will just stare at me as if I was the lesson.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): So in the place of shadows. I think, can be interpreted and pleased to watch the video. It's free on her website.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): as an instance of connecting histories via mapping oneself kind of into fabulated histories.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): I wonder, she writes, if I can put my body in the places your bodies have been and the place of your shadows, maybe I can find your story in me if it's always been there, maybe I am both your stories and mine.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Now, what does this mean for the decolonization of historical methods? How can we or how far? can we stretch, so to speak, the archive?

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Fabio Santos (he/him): Can we draw analogies, even coastalities, between our own experiences and that of people who lived I mean, more than a century ago. Even Can we so easily fuse past, present, and future

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Fabio Santos (he/him): for scholars and artists like Sandy Hartman and Levon Bell. These are entangled units of time. So the present moment was the future. At some point, or, as Hartmann writes, in 2,007, I to live in the time of slave reading.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): by which I mean I am living in the future created by it.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): And so, accordingly, any historically

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Fabio Santos (he/him): informed sociological research, constructing its epistemology and methodology as if it was distanced.

485
01:23:03.180 --> 01:23:24.709
Fabio Santos (he/him): isolated, frozen in time. This is the point that the historian herself and the material she works with. rely on the power relations extending into the present. This is not to say that we, of course, is not to say that we should become, you know, artists or storytellers?

486
01:23:24.730 --> 01:23:33.680
Fabio Santos (he/him): but especially in the context of the scarcity that I outlined the scarcity in material on kinship and slave ship.

487
01:23:33.810 --> 01:23:40.290
Fabio Santos (he/him): critical, fabulous, and or the dialogue with also non-academic historians and historical sociologists.

488
01:23:40.560 --> 01:23:53.870
Fabio Santos (he/him): can be a vital method, I think a vital tool towards the decolonization. I'll leave it at that. But I do look forward to your questions and thank you very much for your attention.

489
01:23:54.370 --> 01:23:58.270
Thank you very much if I be out.

490
01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:11.190
As it appears, Robin is with us, so we are not the last speaker, so the robin arter is from London School of economics.

491
01:24:11.190 --> 01:24:39.379
Yes, so we still look at some 25 min. So if you if you leave us sometime for discussion, Robin, I so what should I know to. You don't need anything, so you can tell. If it does, it? Is it for sure how I can put my pipe? Maybe I should go in? No, but but it's good that they see you on.

492
01:24:40.950 --> 01:24:42.219
This is.

493
01:24:42.750 --> 01:24:45.810
and you know,

494
01:24:46.120 --> 01:24:48.270
so let's work it out somehow.

495
01:24:52.930 --> 01:25:03.539
Okay, thanks. Everyone. I'm actually going to try and talk sort of much shorter, because I think it would be much more interesting to have a bit of a discussion about some of what I've heard already.

496
01:25:03.610 --> 01:25:19.029
This is part of a much larger project about opposition to war and conscription intergenerational project. The bit I'm going to talk about today is about the failure to block the outbreak of the First World War, which was, of course, a huge

497
01:25:19.060 --> 01:25:31.929
historical, shaping moment.  And you know the outbreak's often treated as a sort of as if it's a bushfire, or what an insurance company call an act of God. But it's actually a decision, of course, and

498
01:25:32.400 --> 01:25:57.199
it's particularly peculiar to think about that decision in the case of the English speaking countries, where it was not at all clear that they were going to get involved. I mean, we. We tend to forget that now, and especially in the case of Britain. And my starting point for what I want to talk about is just simply the observation that when you look at the language of some of the key decision makers, it's replete with the idea of.

499
01:25:57.550 --> 01:26:06.679
And that's what I want to focus on now, Abner, off a building on work of James Joel and expanded later by Michael Mann, and for an historical sociologist.

500
01:26:06.800 --> 01:26:19.420
have argued that that code, the European honor code is playing a key role in Austria, Hungary, and Prussia, even in France. but he doesn't think it's playing a role in historically Liberal Britain.

501
01:26:19.600 --> 01:26:33.710
where, after all, there is no conscription, there is a strong anti-militarist current, at least with respect to Britain itself, within the Rly Liberal party. And so the question I want to address today is, how can we explain what happened in Britain

502
01:26:34.290 --> 01:26:50.169
and the the and and I propose to suggest that the honor code does play a role there. I I don't want to waste everyone's time, but you know I'm going to use offers version of it. And the basically reputation is at risk.

503
01:26:50.430 --> 01:26:52.730
that

504
01:26:53.390 --> 01:26:57.690
you have to be prepared to engage in physical confrontation

505
01:26:57.820 --> 01:27:05.870
and that you shouldn't be making calculations of costs and benefits. That sort of honor. Trump's all of that.

506
01:27:06.240 --> 01:27:26.659
And there's more about that in a article in the Journal of Historical Sociology. So I'll just refer you to that if you want to chase up on it. So I mean, why is the British case interesting? Well, you know, right on the eve of the First World War just 3 days before they get into it. The Cabinet decides not to send troops to France.

507
01:27:26.770 --> 01:27:31.230
so there's a huge kind of argument going on within the Liberal Cabinet.

508
01:27:31.420 --> 01:27:41.709
and it's only 2 days later the the Foreign Secretary Grey, stands up in the House of Commons and makes this speech that you know it's going to happen

509
01:27:41.950 --> 01:28:02.739
on the third of August, and the speech he gives is absolutely replete with the language of. Just just to give you a flavour. He says he ends the speech this way, he says, if in a crisis like this, we run away by doubt whether, whatever material force we might have at the end.

510
01:28:02.740 --> 01:28:12.439
it would be of much value in the face of the respect we would have lost, and he carries on to say, we lose our good name and our reputation, and so on, and so forth.

511
01:28:12.690 --> 01:28:36.629
And this this argument is then repeated by the Prime Minister the next day when they do, and go into war and you. So there's a whole lot of this language. It's picked up by the opposition. It's picked up by the Times. It's picked up eventually by even the people who are opposing it. The Labor Party says, Oh, look! We don't think honor is at state, but if it was at stake, you know we we'd have to.

512
01:28:36.780 --> 01:28:42.299
So that's the sort of story there.

513
01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:50.160
So how should we understand this use of the language of honor.

514
01:28:51.410 --> 01:29:07.690
Well, I'll condense a whole big argument, but it's not at all clear that the Foreign Secretary himself is motivated by questions of honor. In fact, if you look at the detailed archives, he seems to have made a decision a few days earlier, based on, you know, Russia's power, and ships going through the

515
01:29:07.720 --> 01:29:18.119
through the English Channel, and so on. It turns out that the reason for this language and that people to whom it's addressed.

516
01:29:18.320 --> 01:29:26.019
other Radical Liberals in his own party, the people who have been blocking the attempt, the people who earlier had got that Cabinet decision.

517
01:29:26.430 --> 01:29:39.670
It's, you know, the Liberal party is divided between these Liberal Imperialists, the ones that, like the Boer War and the Radical Liberals, he thought that was a disaster. The Radical Liberals are blocking this whole thing. and the extraordinary thing about it is that it works.

518
01:29:40.290 --> 01:29:50.289
He wins over a whole lot of these Radical Liberals, and I won't go through it all today. But leading politicians who they were afraid would block it. Lloyd George.

519
01:29:50.320 --> 01:30:06.569
trade union leaders who had been setting up a big march a few weeks later. Say, Oh, well, you know, one is at stake, and so on. the Women's Social and Political Union, you know this is the so-called Suffragettes, the saintly Amelia Pankhurst.

520
01:30:07.190 --> 01:30:16.060
She immediately jumps on this, and sends out her activists to say, every man should be recruited in all, and and start sending out white

521
01:30:16.300 --> 01:30:30.590
the feathers, the people who won't join up to conscientious objectors, even Quakers and peace activists come along with it and say, look, you know, it would be dishonorable. We have to. So this language of honor sort of seems to swamp

522
01:30:31.740 --> 01:30:38.370
the arguments and beliefs of people who've got a long history of a sort of anti-militarist posture.

523
01:30:39.630 --> 01:30:50.769
Now I was going to spend a little bit of time sort of setting this out more clearly by looking at a very influential intellectual. This is Gilbert Murray, who was the professor of classical Greek at Oxford University.

524
01:30:50.780 --> 01:30:58.940
He was a sort of paradigm peace campaigner. So much was he a paradigm that if you read George Bernard Shaw's Major Barbara novel a play.

525
01:30:59.050 --> 01:31:06.480
he's the model. So the peace activist there, and he's poised with a whole lot of other people from the Ls. And elsewhere.

526
01:31:06.490 --> 01:31:25.080
On the third of August, the day before they start to to push against this by putting out a big thing in the newspaper. No, no, no, no! He hears this speech from Foreign Secretary Grey, and he switches over, and within a couple of weeks, he writes a pamphlet, can war ever be right? And his answer now is.

527
01:31:25.400 --> 01:31:32.289
Yes, it can, and the argument he makes is centrally to appeal to these tropes

528
01:31:32.400 --> 01:31:39.119
of honor, and I I'm not sure that I've got it's not really probably the time to go through it all. But

529
01:31:39.330 --> 01:31:46.300
well, I'll give you a flavor of it with one small quote rather than sort of make the argument so this in this thing, which is

530
01:31:46.340 --> 01:32:05.709
hundreds of thousands of them are published that sent out everywhere, and so on. The argument for peace fails, he says, because it judges the war on a profit and loss account, and leaves out of sight the cardinal fact that in some causes it's better to fight and be broken than to yield peacefully.

531
01:32:05.910 --> 01:32:10.779
But sometimes the mere act of resisting to the death is itself a victory.

532
01:32:11.100 --> 01:32:12.739
He goes on to say.

533
01:32:12.970 --> 01:32:23.220
situations like this are those that give rise to questions of. and and that is something which a free man value is more than life.

534
01:32:23.730 --> 01:32:29.050
So here is this absolutely committed peace activist switching over

535
01:32:29.240 --> 01:32:32.130
these terms at this time.

536
01:32:32.430 --> 01:32:46.980
Now the the criterion that I set out very briefly earlier from offer that you can see them all there. You know. You shouldn't calculate you should be prepared to engage in physical confrontation up into into death, and and so on.

537
01:32:47.700 --> 01:33:11.409
Now I was actually going to make the point that this is not just a a British thing, and he might think, Oh, well, it's the British aristocracy, and so I know it's in the New World English-being countries, too. I won't make the argument here this arguments actually, in this German historical sociology. But if you look at, you know, Woodrow Wilson is saying, he gets elected, saying, you know we'll keep you out of the war, and then, in 1,917, he takes a into the war.

538
01:33:11.480 --> 01:33:13.110
Well.

539
01:33:13.210 --> 01:33:19.470
how does he get that argument through the Congress. Well, if you look at the Congressional reports

540
01:33:19.590 --> 01:33:27.049
and just take the Senate, for example. the vote in the Senate was in favour of the war, 82 to 6,

541
01:33:27.730 --> 01:33:42.259
25 Senators contributed to the debate. 21 of them invoked the language of honor. and some of them were Southern Senators, so you might say. Oh, well, it's the Southern Honor code, but actually 3 over 4 are not Southern Senators.

542
01:33:42.700 --> 01:34:06.209
And many of them had previously been opposed to us involvement, and I used this argument, and I got quotes to to make that point. Interestingly enough, here in Australia, too. I don't know if you know of all the belligerents, this was the only country where a labor government was in power. In that period of the thing there was an election right before it, in which labor came to bound, not for the first time for the third time.

543
01:34:06.250 --> 01:34:33.179
and the Prime Minister, Andrew Fisher, as every Australian schoolboy knows, said, you know we'll fight with Britain to the last man in the last shilling, but nobody remembers what he says before that he actually says it would be horrible if there is a war. I want everything to happen to stop a war breaking up. But if the worst should happen, and all that has been done that allows, then we will the last. So there, too, you know, a labor leader.

544
01:34:33.350 --> 01:34:39.699
and this precociously left us. Government of the time is making this same argument.

545
01:34:40.150 --> 01:34:54.619
Yeah, I'm not doing what I said, am I? I've got to speed it up. So I was going to say a few words about why it's effective. I'll just say the one line that it has a sort of trumping quality to it. It overrides everything. It sort of tweaks the activist sensibility

546
01:34:54.740 --> 01:35:15.250
makes them feel. You know it's a crew side. And I wanted to end up by saying, Is there any resonance of this in the present, and I won't make the case. But actually, you know, a lot of it might be analogy between the you know, Twin Towers and the attack, you know, in in September the eleventh, and and the assassination of friends, Joseph

547
01:35:15.680 --> 01:35:17.859
turning a crime into a war.

548
01:35:18.040 --> 01:35:29.779
and I've got some evidence to suggest that you see this sort of on a type of argument playing a role in justifying that as well. And then I was going to end by a few comments about them.

549
01:35:29.890 --> 01:35:44.490
Lessons there might be in this suggest that you could either try and reshape the idea of, you know, a bit like a sort of a Gandhi or a king, or perhaps a but-sla-faville, turn it into a sort of dissident honor rather than a warrior on a

550
01:35:44.530 --> 01:36:04.900
Or perhaps you could just ditch the idea that you should leave aside rational calculation. But then, perhaps we, too, in the social sciences, need to fake a bit of responsibility. Given the somewhat dismissive attitude to you know everything, all reason is power, and so on. This makes it seem problematic.

551
01:36:05.300 --> 01:36:09.719
Thanks for squeezing in at the eleventh hour.

552
01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:17.730
you, Robin, so it is. Still.

553
01:36:17.870 --> 01:36:23.099
We still have at least 1212 min for discussion. So the

554
01:36:23.230 --> 01:36:29.330
the floor is up, and who would like to ask questions, comments, and

555
01:36:30.010 --> 01:36:34.890
 make any other remarks.

556
01:36:35.040 --> 01:36:37.470
Okay.

557
01:36:37.510 --> 01:37:02.950
please be quick, because there's not much time, but to you, or maybe because, you know, in Poland there is, of course, this disclosure in history, but we were talking about mainly about the English speaking countries and what is special in this course.

558
01:37:02.950 --> 01:37:16.870
and why, you know the disco of honour, that what once was very, you know, very specific for aristocracy became so popular among classes, and, you know, united the feelings in a sense that they joined the effort to walk and forth.

559
01:37:16.870 --> 01:37:26.870
You know the question precisely lies. It goes like, what is special about this discourse in English speaking up especially.

560
01:37:27.220 --> 01:37:35.770
yeah, I just, I just answered very quickly, do you do you hear us from this other micro mic or not? A lot of can you hear that?

561
01:37:36.080 --> 01:37:38.630
But I do that question.

562
01:37:38.710 --> 01:38:04.499
Oh, great! So you can. I mean just super quickly on that. I mean, I skipped over. But the New World examples are very importantly, I I think what happens is that this aristocratic value becomes democratized, at least for white men. And it it it's off as a marker of high social status in an egalitarian way to

563
01:38:04.840 --> 01:38:06.510
yeah.

564
01:38:07.130 --> 01:38:10.700
But can I ask a question? Is this while I've got it?

565
01:38:11.469 --> 01:38:13.090
They're coming together?

566
01:38:13.139 --> 01:38:18.960
Why did I say that they here? They're curious, at least that that is probably also good to.

567
01:38:19.049 --> 01:38:47.429
I was. I was really interested in these these initial papers, and I just had a very quick question to both of you. I mean to you. What I was interested in was, have you seen the work of people who who look to that. There's a book called Ganti in the West, by Shannon in in in Melbourne, actually, which looks at the model of your 50 s mobilizations, or even 40 s. Mobilizations, and how it feeds into 60 s. Mobilizations. And I just wondered what you had to say about that. And on your one

568
01:38:47.459 --> 01:39:00.439
 The Matthew Waits was talking, I mean rightly about how, in the late 17 hundreds, or at the beginning of your period, there was lots of

569
01:39:00.520 --> 01:39:08.850
you know European men marrying and raising families and becoming an Indian. You know there is a dalry importance. I was written about this.

570
01:39:08.870 --> 01:39:23.820
What's going on in your case with that, I mean because you sort of start as if there is no such period. And was there any period in which the existing authorities were powerful enough to look sort of askance at the

571
01:39:24.120 --> 01:39:25.899
at the colonizers.

572
01:39:27.120 --> 01:39:28.480
That's yeah.

573
01:39:28.889 --> 01:39:34.339
Your Fabio has a happy of has a question. So maybe we will collect

574
01:39:34.540 --> 01:39:40.270
Fabio Santos (he/him): to. Yeah, I'm just very quick.

575
01:39:40.950 --> 01:40:04.750
Fabio Santos (he/him): Yeah. Okay, So to sada, fascinating research. But of course, I mean trying to make a connection to my paper or my thoughts reflections. do you see any possibility to also bring in? the perspective of of those about whom is written actually, because

576
01:40:05.010 --> 01:40:26.940
Fabio Santos (he/him): what you told us and you gave us the trigger warning, which was helpful. But yeah, also, yeah. Gives us a one side of the story, and what would be a way? in terms of methods to include maybe. this other view of those who are burden we've been written about, and then to Matthew. Just

577
01:40:27.260 --> 01:40:30.750
Fabio Santos (he/him): also very, very fascinating research.

578
01:40:30.760 --> 01:40:37.729
Fabio Santos (he/him): the the Commonwealth. I'm not really familiar with this whole structure and everything. But could you?

579
01:40:38.010 --> 01:40:47.900
Fabio Santos (he/him): Or would you see the anti Lgbtqi? Queer legislation in some of those countries also, as a legacy

580
01:40:48.260 --> 01:40:56.349
Fabio Santos (he/him): coloniality, legacy of colonialism? How would you frame that I'm just out of curiosity. Thank you.

581
01:40:56.430 --> 01:40:59.449
Okay, thank you. Fabulous. Who is this?

582
01:41:04.559 --> 01:41:22.560
Hello, Professor? Wait I have. My question goes to you. So actually you. Only yeah, thank you for your very fascinating project. It's it's amazing. And but the one thing you only focus on the European in colonial license in parallelism. So do you have any plan to

583
01:41:23.028 --> 01:41:37.070
search for the Japanese in parallelism? If why? Why, you cannot search for the Japanese Imperial Imperialism or the colonialism? Because the yeah, this is my questions. Yeah.

584
01:41:38.050 --> 01:41:40.100
thank you, sir.

585
01:41:42.530 --> 01:42:08.860
We are all asking questions of each other. this goes to Fabio. What he was, explained reminded me of this. Eduardo Galianos. The memory of fire. I don't know if you know that trilogy. It's about the history of Latin America. It's a work of fiction, but there are like a a year, 1,495, and then a short story of what happens. So that's maybe a good reference point for you.

586
01:42:09.970 --> 01:42:13.599
Matthew has a question as.

587
01:42:13.630 --> 01:42:20.999
Matthew Waites: yeah, I have a question for Fabio. I I enjoyed all the papers, but to fabulous.

588
01:42:21.840 --> 01:42:34.059
Matthew Waites: I I've also been reading about slavery, and for this for this work I've been doing, and especially the work important spillers which you mentioned.

589
01:42:34.250 --> 01:42:35.700
Matthew Waites: But

590
01:42:35.820 --> 01:42:48.419
Matthew Waites: I wondered if you would agree that Hortense Villas, in the essay Mama's baby puppers maybe seems to assume there was patriarchy in Africa

591
01:42:48.430 --> 01:42:56.199
Matthew Waites: that the disruption of gender happens on the slave passage, whereas recent

592
01:42:56.420 --> 01:43:12.179
Matthew Waites: Erez Agmoni scholarship, such as Oywomi's study of Yoruba culture in the invention of women sort of suggests an absence of gender categories in in parts of West Africa. So

593
01:43:12.350 --> 01:43:17.249
Matthew Waites: this is kind of interesting to me, because there's

594
01:43:17.400 --> 01:43:26.080
Matthew Waites: the the spiller's argument seems to suggest there's a sort of wearing that happens, or a dis disruption, if you like, that happens through the

595
01:43:26.750 --> 01:43:36.550
Matthew Waites: the slave process. So I just wondered if if you had any any thoughts about that. I I also just want to mention that Claire Hemmings

596
01:43:36.790 --> 01:43:43.349
Matthew Waites: did a book called, considering a Emma Goldman, where I think she may use some kind of technique, a bit similar to

597
01:43:43.420 --> 01:43:49.340
Matthew Waites: what you're talking about with critical fabulations which you you might want to have a look at that.

598
01:43:51.420 --> 01:43:56.789
Thank you. So I will add my brief comments

599
01:43:56.790 --> 01:44:25.449
This was fantastic when and, as you know, I'm polish. So so I'm looking at this from the from this East European point of view. So you mentioned, you are realizing global South. So what was was this Communist countries of of Eastern Europe included, because in in Poland the 56 is the big year, because the Liberalization, the Soviet Union and the great protest. And then it's and the liberal era starts, and at 60 60,

600
01:44:25.450 --> 01:44:43.809
is it? Is it 68? So so this the the this could be soon as a, the this global Soviet camp fragmentation as a as a global process, which probably also impacted in several areas in the world. and then

601
01:44:43.810 --> 01:45:02.919
one reflection on fabulous presentation. What recalls me is the global rising fashion or popularity of the genealogical research.

602
01:45:02.980 --> 01:45:16.279
and the people reconstruct the family trees all over the world. And don't you think that in this aspect this this legacy of

603
01:45:16.280 --> 01:45:41.250
of of the the slavery can be also important? Because, though this is this old privilege which gets reproduced, because if you are from a privilege, noble family, you get this lean edge to up to the Middle Ages, that if you are in a former slave, you are not able to reconstruct the the the 3 as suddenly the history gets like revived, and

604
01:45:41.250 --> 01:46:04.119
and then, Seemingly in a private context. But that's that's now. The borders between private and public are great and and and and and and and and to to to do. Robin. this. This reflection, you know, really, makes a lot of sense, and and our rise is a long of bills in Poland, because the the, the.

605
01:46:04.120 --> 01:46:26.950
the entire history of Poland is full of this, you know. references to to honor, and especially the beginning of the Second World War, which you, as you know, it's the started in Poland, was related to the speech of the Polish Foreign Minister, who said, Poland will not so come to the blackmail or of of of Hitler, because there is something like honor, and and

606
01:46:26.950 --> 01:46:54.269
we will resist. And Germany, so, so, so, so the the the the and and what you suggest that to think to whom those people are speaking about honor, I think it's also inspiring from the because in the Polish context, and probably many other countries. Because in Poland, when you read historical narrative, it's like common sense. Of course, everyone knows this honour is the the the most prist value, but but you can probably reconstruct this, the the logic of this.

607
01:46:54.270 --> 01:47:02.320
the narrative. So please. Now, in order of brief responses.

608
01:47:06.730 --> 01:47:12.859
Okay, thank you for comments from Thomas. And

609
01:47:14.860 --> 01:47:38.389
Robin. Right? Thank you. So I I I I have no chance to take a look. You're all the reference. So I'm definitely will search for the your reference. Thank you. Pro you are suggesting so and Thomas. So actually, although my, the global south. Okay? So I search for the total to 43 countries and reasons so definitely 8 countries coming from.

610
01:47:38.390 --> 01:48:07.869
let's say, 8 countries. Less reason. Okay. So some country was not form at the time. Sometimes it's integrated some slightly. So anyways, let's say it's 8 countries reasons coming from the East. Asia East is Eastern European countries definitely but actually, in the Poland case I can search for of the big protest cycle more specifically in the 19 eighties definitely. So lead to movement. And then, right after that, so definitely.

611
01:48:07.870 --> 01:48:23.529
okay? Oh, yeah. So if I chance to introduce my on the next protester waves in the 19 eighties definitely, Poland. The was one of the key players, right, anyway. Thank you.

612
01:48:23.980 --> 01:48:34.829
yes, I think that 2 questions were quite related, so I'm not trying to explain what Sri Lanka was still on at the time was like

613
01:48:34.960 --> 01:48:41.300
at the time when the writers were there. I'm examining how they view the island.

614
01:48:41.500 --> 01:48:47.249
because it's going to be an article, so I don't think I can squeeze in like a description of

615
01:48:47.450 --> 01:49:06.680
what the island was like and what the relationships between the people living there were like. But to fabulous comment, I will definitely have to go back to the big bibliography of Zealand, which is like 4 volumes long, and check if there's any any sort of

616
01:49:06.870 --> 01:49:19.039
text from that time which would be like from the Colonial, other, because it's true that they are totally silent, silent in this this story now, and it's at least if I can't.

617
01:49:19.560 --> 01:49:25.710
can't find anything, then I I should certainly have to address that. But I know that this is

618
01:49:26.100 --> 01:49:28.329
that. Thanks, then.

619
01:49:28.570 --> 01:49:36.909
thank you. So now, my Matthew, and you have another question on the chat which you can see you can say it is

620
01:49:36.950 --> 01:50:05.440
Matthew Waites: So to fabulous question about whether the remaining laws from the British Empire that that still exist in certain States should be thought of as coloniality or legacy. I think that's complicated generally with coloniality. I would be thinking about Quijano's characterization of a Eurocentrism paradigm in which is so

621
01:50:05.610 --> 01:50:10.389
Matthew Waites: knowledge intertwined with subjectivation. So there's kind of all of that to

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Matthew Waites: to think about. I think some instances the laws may have just sat on the statute books without any public debate, and in that case, maybe it is still

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Matthew Waites: colonial

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Matthew Waites: in quite a direct way. But in other cases

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Matthew Waites: I think it's important to take into account the the agency of

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Matthew Waites: the current governments and populations of formally colonized States, and so recognize where they've actively chosen to keep the laws. So in those contexts, maybe it's more legacy.

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Matthew Waites:  on the second question about

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Matthew Waites: why we're not looking at other non-european imperialism, such as Japanese imperialism. It's a great question.

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Matthew Waites: The simple answer is, we we did discuss it among the interesting team, and we're very clear that we're not good enough to do that. we we don't have the ability. We don't have the existing knowledge. the project is already sort of vast. So we we we kind of recognize that we're sort of echoing the existing tendencies of post, colonial and decolonial studies which have tended to

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Matthew Waites: focused towards a critique towards Eurocentrism.

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Matthew Waites: Erez agmoni we're just going to try and present the book as as having limits in that respect. Talk about other empires where they're coming into the stories that we're discussing 150

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Matthew Waites: but we, you know, we recognize the limits of the book in that way?

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 and do you see that question in chat?

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Matthew Waites: yeah, shall I read out a question to Matthew? Many current African leaders justify the increasing persecution against LGBT. Community claiming that those practices are a Western influence and a disrespect to the African traditional values. How do you deal with that kind of

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Matthew Waites: argumentation?

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Matthew Waites: well, generally, I think there's a lot of literature and research which demonstrates that

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Matthew Waites: there have been same sex practices in Africa, well known foundational collection, called Boy Wives and Female Husbands, is often cited

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Matthew Waites: The work of Markuprecht is an essential reference point works of African scholars like Sylvia to Malay.

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Matthew Waites: So you know that that would be broadly how I would start answering that.

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Thank you. So now, Fabio, please.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): I don't want to overstret the time, and it's late or early in Berlin as well. No one is entering the room, so let's take a but yeah, thank you. as on my questions. and thank you for the references that I will look up. I mean Daliano. I know. I don't know that specific work. but yes, it's about. I think it's similar in the sense that

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Fabio Santos (he/him): CD. Hartman doesn't make up stories. She she, you know, if you look, have a look at the book, you one or one fourth of it at the end, it's just annotations and archival traces, and so on.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): but then it's it's it's it's sort of framed in a in a in a relatively poetic way that historical sociologists and historians usually don't write, so I will look. I have a look at at at his work, and the same with humor, suggestion, Matthew and or chance pillars.

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Fabio Santos (he/him):  I'm not sure I don't. I don't. But it's been a while that I read the text, but I don't remember her saying exactly like

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Fabio Santos (he/him): whether patriarchy was absent, or completely absent or not in certain African societies. I was really more concerned. Maybe there was my the lens with which I read the text with

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Fabio Santos (he/him): How how family uprooting worked in the then American context. So children being often fathered by the enslavers, and then not having a right to belong to the mother, but I will. It's it's a good. It made me think a lot, and I will have have have a look at the text, and if you want, we can also exchange after, because we're running out of time.

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Fabio Santos (he/him): And Thomas yes, that's, I think, a very good example with the whole G, and a genealogical research. coming up. that reflects the difficulty in tracing one's own biography. If there's a cut and you can't

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Fabio Santos (he/him): yeah, reach quickly. I would see that as a good example. Thank you.

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Thanks.

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So now, Robin, who is.

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I think it was just very evident that there's empirically rich work going on in a range of different areas in historical sociology. And I think this demonstrates it very nicely.

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That's all. Okay. Thank you very much, everybody. This was a wonderful panel. This is an honor to Jarrett, and thanks for attending thanks for a great presentation, and hopefully see you in next conferences