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On professional work, second part, I'm Sandy, I'm going to be chairing the session.

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So we'll make a start with our first press. I should say. We haven't the same thing as we haven't got an introduction, a proper interjection to say we are on Aboriginal land and just to sort of acknowledge that fact and to the Space Bank people that we hear.

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And okay our first presenter is Joy Thish and I think on the program it says it's a first presenter is Jo Thish and I think on the program it says it's a distributed paper but it's not and this is going to present on engineering software services.

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Thank you. Yeah. How's everything going to need any technical assistance?

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I think they're right. And I'm 31 3. We'll leave the that fully meeting toolbar for me.

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The way it shows up on

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If you need it back for a remote presenter, you're just going to stay with them. The

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Yeah, so. Hello everyone.

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I'm Rui Jotish. I am an student professor in Opi-jendal group in India.

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I teach at the General School of International Affairs and I am primarily a political economist so this is kind of new territory for me.

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My PhD research was on the labor process analysis of

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But what is interesting about the IT sector in India is that they have quite a lot of influence in social capital in the way policies designed in India.

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Most prominently the policies around digital India and all the new biometric identification programs that have been implemented for 1.3 million population as well as the new innovations around the payment gateways and applications around that they're quite influential.

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What is interesting is that many of these people who are influential in the sector where you could say they made their wealth around Software Engineering Services.

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Are basically innovating around global professional services in the form of software engineering services. So. In recent decades in decades, For me, at least it was a newer discovery for many of you who work in sociology professions.

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Of course, it's not. There have been many professional service firms that have gone global in search of new markets and they basically support clients requiring services across countries.

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These firms are agents of economic globalization and there are organizational implications for this kind of globalization of professional services.

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In the Indian case, the IT sector has been one of the most prominent examples often in industry that has taken advantage of this.

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And that's because there's a sizable English speaking technically educated workforce. So the IT sector is the most valuable sector in terms of foreign exchange earnings for the country.

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But if you look at the amount of employment that it provides. You know, in proportion to the population actually is a very small amount.

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I say small amounts it's in the millions but the population is in the 1 billion so in proportion it's a small so the question I start with

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Yeah, why software service professionals and why this city in particular Terevananth Purham for the sake of ease of communication, I will just say TBM.

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Well, there is extent sociological literature on the IT sector in India, especially that which centers around business process outsourcing, especially call centers.

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The main reasons for the rapid growth of call centers is because again English speaking graduates being available and they're ready to work up to with about 80% less salary than their Western counterparts.

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So back office BPO refers to a company contracting its core business support operations such as maybe accounting, payment, processing IT services, human resources, regulatory compliance, etc.

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Front office BP would be something like support sales and marketing. But what has happened is following the 2,008 financial crisis scholars such as Taylor and Bain and Norona and Dcruz have documented work intensification in the call center workforce and larger BPO workforce.

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And it was becoming very clear that the earlier sort of characterisation of their work as professional work or organizations appeal to their professional identity was something as a means of sort of identity regulation and socioiological control was kind of starting to WAN.

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And we saw that in very empirical terms through organized protests by independent unions in several cities in the country, most notably in the bigger cities where BPOs were prominent.

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So that would be your cities Tier One cities like Delhi National Capital Region, Bungalow or Bangalore.

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Shinnai Hyderabad Puni. These cities combine form the most export earnings.

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For the IT sector. But this is the larger BPO and IT enabled services work. Software services has its own issues.

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Despite thousands of layoffs and change in work organization after the 2,008 financial crisis there was less attention on this form of work.

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Particularly you will, see less literature compared to call centre work because Normally even if you ask someone who's a software engineer they would refer to themselves as I'm a professional and they are very careful to distinguish themselves from those who work in IT enabled services.

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There is a manner of professional identity and pride that comes with the way they do their work. And sociologically speaking less attention has been paid to them because if you compare with the median income of India they are much higher in the socio economic ladder.

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So my goal here is to sort of see some But I saw some trends. During my field work during my PhD which I wanted to try and see from the lens of global professional services literature.

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Particularly professional. Professionalism literature from the perspective of the noble sub. Now, the nature of IT work is global in scope and as a proportionately less quantity of labor of software services and non software service work caters to the domestic market.

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And most of these studies also only take a look at the bigger cities. So that would be Delhi, Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad Puni.

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There's a reason I'm looking at one of the smaller cities. Which is Stevie.

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TBM particularly is a very interesting example because it's one of the earliest and oddest examples of success of the ID sector in India.

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And also in a province that has historically been known for militant labour activism. So it's an province of Kerala and South Indies.

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Probably known in development literature, you would have heard of the Kerala model of development. It was the place which are the first democratically elected communist government in the world.

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So they have very strong ideas about around labour laws around focus more on sort of investment in the welfare state more comparable to Europe rather than focus on economic growth.

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But very interestingly, a lot of the base of the IT sector of the state started out in the 1,900 ninety's in this place in And the whole of the area where it is active.

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So you you can see a picture there called Techno Park. The campus is called Techno Park. The campus is called Techno Park in where it's a special economic zone.

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So that's basically an area where there is a virtual suspension of labour loss. And those labor laws like in many parts of the world these kinds of policies are with the explicit desire for governments to attract foreign capital.

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In this case, what is interesting is if you go to Travandrum or TBM, What you will find is if there is a strike which is quite frequent in this state of Kerala and particularly in the city of

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The you will also find the IT professionals traveling in buses or they are in their private cars but those who are doing the strike would actually move out of the way so that these guys can go to their campuses.

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It's a very interesting site because the rest of the city and the state is in complete shutdown but this particular sector has to go on.

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There is a virtual understanding that the success of this sector depends on it being able to run 24 7 and there is somehow an acknowledgement of that even within the state and also among the activists.

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Who are in the labour loss. Involved in labor laws. So if I can give you a more recent example, currently there is a sort of few cases of Thousands of layoffs happening in the city as well as the whole of the country in the IT sector, but very noticeably what happened in the city of Trondum is

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that one company that was set to lay off many employees the negotiation with that company took place on behalf of the executive.

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Of the subnational government without the environment of any labor unions. And currently the executive that the government that occupies the subnational state is the Communist Party of India Marxist.

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So the Communist Party of India, itself sort of doesn't want the labour unions involved in any kind of disciplines.

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So in classic literature of say state was plus from working together in order to promote businesses that's basically what's happening.

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To quickly go to what the crux of the paper is. And so I had done unstructured interviews of over say, 110 professionals in the city and a significant chunk of them are what can be classified as software services.

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Historically they have been called middle class upper caste or they have a lot of middle class Apocalypse culture. Capital they're highly educated and their parents both of them are employed.

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But what is noticeable in the average software services professional in Thrones today is that you will see that there is some sort of a signal which may not be clear from this picture but this is basically some sort of a signaling of intergenerational mobility happening here.

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That The parents are from, certain backgrounds. Which are not quite from the IT sector well that's normal because IT sector is new.

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However, a sizable portion of the population has been able to move away from say agriculture or state government service into the IT sector from one generation to the next.

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But what is interesting about this and which is why I undertook the research is that if you Look at their hiring practices.

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There are certain things you can look at it from the perspective of professional sociology of professions literature which is if you look at the work of Elliot Friedson what is the knowledge that software engineering professionals process?

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Is it possible to effectively distinguish between the knowledge that they possess and the skill which is their ability to accomplish that task.

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How much of that knowledge is tacit or embedded in experience or without being codified? What is the working knowledge of a software professional and what is a formal knowledge which is basically discretionally mental specialization.

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And to quickly summarize, based on interviews with the project manager, assistant vice president level people and as well as interviews with say your entry level professional what you will find is that they are not looking at technical requirements anymore.

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There's been a noticeable change in the last 5 to 7 years possibly that you they're not hiring bachelors of technology sort of graduates anymore.

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They're going into hiring bachelor of computer applications students which are courses which are cheaper. And there are 3 year courses rather than 4 year courses which are a B-text.

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And in this case, they're also not quite trained as much as a BETA graduate. And if you ask them what kind of languages or programming languages that they're trained in, you will see that they are increasingly only training basic algorithms and structures.

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And the project managers themselves say that we don't need people who are highly trained. We need people who are mouldable.

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In fact, I got actual quotes in which people say that to me. We need people with learnability.

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That's what we expect from candidates. How can we mold? That's what we expect from candidates.

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How can we mold attitude and articulation. How can we mold attitude and articulation and Assertiveness, communication, and other analytical skills.

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I'll quickly conclude because I'm running out of time maybe I can talk more during the question session but this is basically the hiring and the training part.

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Thank you. That is really.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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Okay, so this is Yellenma and I think our show is online. Yes, yeah.

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Yeah, I'm not able to share screen if you're sharing the screen right now, but I'm happy to share screen from my from my place.

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So Ivy, I hope you can start sharing your screen. So please stop talking.

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Yeah, go up and stop sharing. Just a minute. I know I know I know I know I just need to take this information here

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You

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Sure.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Ivy, you're on over to you.

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Great. Thank you so much and my apologies for being late and thanks so much to my colleague Stephanie Short for.

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Getting me here on time so thanks everybody I'm gonna be presenting from the healthy professional worker partnership and it is looking at this particular paper looks at our conceptual framework so an intersectional contextualized path framework.

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Looking at the pathway for mental health lease about since and return to work among professional workers. So as it's customary in Canada, we, like to acknowledge, territory that we are working on.

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So I live work in play on unseeded UN-strandered territory of the Algonquin and Shavi people.

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And to whom I pay respect. And acknowledge also the, colonial legacies, to this day.

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Our healthy professional worker partnership or HPW is funded by the 2 2 of the 3 track councils here in Canada.

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The Canadian Institute of Health Research and the Social Sciences and Bandage Research Council of Canada. It examines the experiences of mental health leave of absence and return to work from a comparative perspective and especially from an intersectional gender perspective.

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It focuses on 7 case studies. Nursing dentistry, medicine and midwifery and healthcare as well as academia, accounting and teaching.

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And so each of these case studies was purposely selected because of their gender composition. With an academia counting dentistry in Madison they are traditionally masculine professions with nursing midwifery and teaching being more traditionally feminine professions.

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And so that has implications to this day. We examine the leadership as a cross-cutting focus.

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So first of all, to walk you through our conceptual framework.

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We wanted to take all of these multiple layers around individuals. So we have first, an individual of a particular, gender identity.

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And in this project we were. We pained ourselves to ensure that we took into consideration more than just for gender binary.

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So we have those intersecting identities. We also looked at issues around age. Ability, racialized identity with a specific, notion around indigenous identity, looking at gender and sexuality.

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And so we had questions around this both, you know, from our mixed methods approach. We wanted to look at, individual level in terms of one's experiences of mental health, both as an individual and as a worker and how they navigated that between different types of influences.

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We asked questions specifically on family level influences. One status within the family and the roles within a family.

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The work influences and how that changed depending on the different profession that we were looking at. And then the organizational influences.

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And so we also looked at how all of those affected this pathway between the decision to take the leave of absence or not in certain cases and the decision to return to work.

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And so that made up our intersectional contextualized path model of these. experiences.

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What was very interesting is that we were looking for a model. In the literature and not existed.

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So we ended up having to create this one in a way that was much more sociological. And so imbued into this particular model really is a focus and then adoption of sociological perspectives, you know, enveloping, an individual's experiences within all of these multiple layers.

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Are research objectives we are to understand how those different layers of impact personal and familiar work and organizational looked at the pathway for mental health phase of absence and return to work.

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These were issues around self reported mental health of health professional workers or professional workers in general. Either contemplating or taking a leave of absence from work and in some cases what one did in response to work.

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And then also the return to the same work or the same professional role at. Different organizations. So we're trying to look at all those different permutations.

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So as I've mentioned, we took a multi methodological approach, which included, literature review document analysis, worker surveys, worker interviews, and stakeholder interviews, very large project.

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And so I wanna mention, in regards to this paper I'm presenting that the first step was really to consult the literature because we wanted to build off of what was already known.

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The academic literature we consulted, came from a librarian assistant searches. And that we had, we built on a previous, project and, if those of you who are from ISA, we presented this in Toronto.

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That was our pilot project. So close to 1,000 articles. Have been included in the review across all of those different case studies and in general.

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The grade literature was also searched and that was mainly, you know, looking at particular websites and organizations that represented these different professions.

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And so it was very much a fulsome literature that we looked at.

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We married this with a regression analysis to test some of the elements of the model that we had. And that was we included 2 factors from each of the levels that was consistent across and this is specifically from the worker surveys that was consistent across all of the different, professional worker surveys.

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So we had gender identity and identity as either black, indigenous or a professional color, what we call, looking at 2 indicators for family that is whether or not they have children and their contribution to family income.

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So really looking at gender roles there within the family. And then work factors, which would have been the one's profession and years in the profession.

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So these were some of the common indicators and we regress those against the dependent variables that we noted earlier, self reported health.

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Contemplating the leave, deciding to leave. And returning to work.

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So if we look at, some of the, first factors when we map this, to the literature at the individual level, the literature reveals that gender, indigenous identity, racialized identity age and ability as well as their intersections are all important personal factors that impact individual mental health experiences, leaves of absence and my front work.

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For instance, some research reveals that in Indigenous employees experience poor mental health as a result of racism, discrimination, and bullying as well as greater work life imbalance.

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In addition, some evidence suggests that sick leave due to common mental disorders is much higher. Amongst younger adults and young women in particular.

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So looking at those intersecting identities. Moreover, in one study with workers within health care, women highlighted how home related demands represented an obstacle to their return to work.

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Well, men described greater access to emotional and practical support at home.

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In the case of family level influences. While our knowledge of the impact of these influences on mental health is about absence and return to work is limited.

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Summaries to suggest that family related factors such as having dependence, work to family conflict have a role in these experiences.

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For example, one Canadian study found that Vernon's scores were higher amongst midwives with young children than those who did not have children.

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And other research revealed that double duty caregivers that was working at home and, providing care at.

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Formal work, suffered more from work at home interfaces for work, health in general and feelings of emotional exhaustion, which lunch greater rates of presenteeism amongst this specific population.

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So being at work but not feeling that.

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In the case of work, there's tons of literature on this area. So we wanted to tease apart 2 aspects here, work content and work context.

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And that really builds upon, you know, fried since teasing apart these, 2 different factors around, experiences at work.

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So we're content in terms of long hours, role, overload and under load. So being overwhelmed and underworld haven't shown to have a negative impact on employees mental health experiences and work context such as lack of control over work, fosters one's decision to take a leave.

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In addition, poor workplace relations and lack of respect from supervisors and coworkers are very important risk factors for mental health issues from professional workers.

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And then when we get at the organizational literature, some societal factors are represent barriers to help seeking by professional workers suffering from mental health issues, which may exacerbate these issues.

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For instance, one US study showed that out of 12 positions with press is sometimes fewer than half reported that they were planning on seeking treatment for a mental health concern, mostly due to stigma and access to treatment.

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So stigma. At the level of profession was really remarkable. This one study focused on, on medicine, some of our findings, made it very clear that stigma and dentistry in academia, particularly important.

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So we really wanted to take those broader experiences together.

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Now, when we look to the regression analysis, we wanted to sort of highlight what we found when we put this all into an equation and those 2 factors that we noted.

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First of all, with respect to mental health. Women were 1.7 times more likely to report having mental health experiences and that's not unusual.

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That's what we see in the literature. as well as those who contributed more to family income.

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So those who, whose salaries whose work contributed Mars family income, they were much more likely to report mental health issues, the stress and strength.

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I need it.

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Yes. In the case of profession, dentist room, we're less and midwives were more likely to report mental health issues.

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In the case of lease of absence, women were 2 times more likely to report taking a leave of absence for mental health and men.

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And that's controlling for the other factors, years in the profession. And so that's important to note.

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Dentists and physicians were less likely and nurses and teachers more likely to take a leave of absence holding individual and family factors constant.

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So we know that there are more women in the professions of nursing and teaching. But even taking into consideration gender identity.

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So these are stable, findings, which kind of speaks to the importance of the gender of the profession, not just the gender of the professional.

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And I'm happy to speak to that further. And then finally return to work. The only factor that affected return to work of those 6 factors that we took into consideration was identity as black, indigenous, or a professional color.

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They were 68% less likely. To return to work following a leave of absence for mental health reasons so that we're not more likely to experience mental health.

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They were not more likely. To experience these but at the point of them leaving they were less likely to return.

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And so, 68% means, you know, that we have the opposite, 42% that do not return.

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And that's a significant, a significant amount of loss to the profession.

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So, to rewrite our key findings, from our study is that, regression based analysis based on our multi-layered conceptual framework developed through this in-depth.

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Literature review speaks to the need to take all of those factors into consideration. For interventions which is what we are working on at this point interventions that take into account professionals workers, individual intersectional and contextualized circumstances that family work and organizational levels.

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So with that, thank you so much for those of you who want to follow further. My hope is that I can advance to the next slide.

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Here we go. This is a way to connect up with us. Apologies, on social media and happy to take any questions. So thanks so much.

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Pass it back to you.

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Thank you. That's exciting. And you stop sharing. Yeah.

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Swindon. Yeah.

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To choose.

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Just be able to click the green share screen and then we'll show you. There we go.

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Between the

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Actually we don't seem to have Markovic. Yeah, so we're going to go straight on to Dominsky who's going to be talking about financialising professionals.

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Yeah.

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Time for questions for it. Thanks. Okay, great. Thanks.

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And that's working. Alright, wonderful. Yep, so my name is Rolandofsky.

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I'm at the University of Manitoba and the Department of City Planning and I'm gonna present some recent research that I did looking at the experiences of urban planners in publicly traded firms.

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So broadly we have oftentimes thought about how planning is a public sector activity. Traditionally, it's been undertaken by local authorities, local governments, but there is increasingly planners that are working for private sector consultants and then there's been even less attention paid to those differences between private sector firms.

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So planning firms can range all the way from 5 person or sole proprietor firms all the way to global firms that don't necessarily specialize in urban planning but include it as a service line.

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So there's been significant consolidation in the architecture engineering construction field which includes planning often and many of these firms are now publicly traded so I'm broadly interested in what happens to professionals that are working in these types of firms, who are they accountable to and what are sort of the implications for planning practice and really the public interest more

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broadly. So just to briefly describe these types of firms, and this is one example, highly diversified in terms of firms.

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And this is one example, highly diversified in terms of the services they provide, all broadly in terms of the services they provide, all broadly in the area of architecture, engineering in terms of the services they provide, all broadly in the area of architecture, engineering, and all broadly in the area of architecture, engineering, and construction services.

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You can see you're planning and construction services. You can see your planning and consulting is one of them, but they do all sorts of consulting services.

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You can see your planning and consulting is one of them, but they do all sorts of consulting services all the way from design, but they do all sorts of consulting services all the way from designing services all the way from designing services all the way from designing, engineering services to operating toll roads and so on.

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And then lastly, why I was interested in the experience of professionals in these firms is that the industry as a whole has been marked by mergers and acquisitions especially in the last 10 to 15 years.

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So I was especially interested at the time MMM group, which is the one on the right, was the largest privately held firm in Canada and was acquired by a publicly held firm.

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So I was interested in what are the experiences of professionals working in these types of firms. And this just sort of shows the amount of consolidation that's been happening over the last 2030 years.

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These are not only planning firms that are being acquired, but they're firms that include planning as a business service.

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And then I'm also interested in this because these firms are often highly reliant on public funds. So you can see in some cases, are often highly reliant on public funds.

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So you can see in some cases, 74% of their revenue comes from the public sector and in all cases it's a significant amount of their revenue again not just from planning services from all the services they provide really sort of intertwined with the public sector and reliant on them for their funds.

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So I'm not going to spend a lot of time on the theoretical framework, but probably I'm interested in these processes of financialization and how that impacts professionals working in these private private sector firms and thinking about planning not only as a public sector activity and when that is historically and as evidenced by our regulatory bodies focused on

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the public interest but also sort of a business activity and what implications of that are. So broadly these 2 research questions sort of frame my interest.

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Does financialization have an impact on the day-to-day work of professional planners working in these firms.

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What are the impacts of shareholder concerns? And then again, sort of what are the implications for both planning as a profession as well as the public interest.

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And so most of this research comes from interviews with both planners and financial actors from interviews with both planners and financial actors from interviews with both planners and financial actors with both planners and financial actors.

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And we can see here, there are about 30 planners, about evenly split between current and former, employees.

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So they might still be here, they're about 30 planners, about evenly split between current and former, employees.

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So they might still be in And then the second group I spoke to were sort of on the financial sector, some work as cell side analysts, some worked as independent analysts and others worked as management consultants that were really focused on the business model of these types of firms.

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So independent from the consulting firms, they provide advice on sort of the management structures for architecture, engineering, and consulting firms.

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Skip over this because we don't have a lot of time. In terms of the findings, I think what really came out of the interview with the practitioners were that there were sort of a clear impact of a lot of these shareholder-driven concerns on their day-to-day practice.

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A few of the interviewees felt that their professional expertise was compromised per se or that the quality of the advice that they were providing was compromised.

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But they did think that there were larger structural and management issues that raised concerns about specifically this model of practice.

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So I'm going to focus on 3 of these areas, not in a great amount of death, but the first was sort of the management strategies that were specific to publicly traded firms and the impact on planners.

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And the second is sort of these broad interactions with financial markets and how that filters down into their day-to-day work.

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And then lastly, what the value of planning is seen as both from planners working in these firms as well as sort of the financial sides.

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So again, they didn't necessarily plan or didn't necessarily feel that their expertise was compromised, but they described a lot of structural conditions.

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And't necessarily feel that their expertise was compromised, but they described a lot of structural conditions that have implications from both professional ethics and public interest perspective.

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And that have implications from both, but they described a lot of structural conditions that have implications from both a professional ethics and a public interest perspective.

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So one of the first ones that, that have implications from both a professional ethics and a public interest and a public interest. Perspective.

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So one of the first ones that was described by I think almost all of the participants and a public interest, perspective.

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So one of the first ones that was described by I think almost all of the participants was issues related to staffing and capacity.

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So a lot of professionals felt that there was a lot of turnover in the firms, and specific to publicly traded firms that that turn turnover was linked to quarterly targets, or shareholder concerns.

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So, you know, one planner talked about leaving on a friday to participate in design during and coming back on the Monday ahead of a big quarterly report and finding

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Oops.

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And so this was one quote from a senior planner really talking about, the cutting of staff and you know they talked about it being sort of silly in in some respects because these firms are professional services firms, their strength is in their professional staff, but really sort of this move towards growth-driven and shareholder-driven practices had

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an impact on sort of the capacity and the training of staff.

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And then you can see sort of here sort of another example and this was from a junior planner who talked about not having enough senior or oversight expertise in certain areas because of that issues with capacity insurance.

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So they're talking specifically about when they issue or when they work on requests for proposal so a city might issue a request for proposals and the firm responds but they were saying as a junior plan or they didn't really know the scope of the project and that would have serious implications in terms of what happens to that project moving forward.

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Okay. Okay, and then in terms of the financial markets, I was a bit surprised in terms of how the financial markets, I was a bit surprised in terms of how often, planners felt that they had direct interactions with financial markets.

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And again, here a planner who had experience both before an acquisition and then after by a publicly traded firm and sort of this idea that feeling now we work for the accounting department.

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And again, lots of planners that I spoke to had experienced in both publicly and privately traded firms and it was interesting to hear them sort of compare.

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Okay. Sorry, something pops up there. Compare their experiences in those 2, contexts.

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And again, private sector consulting isn't new. There's always been private sector consultants that work for local governments or for the public sector, but they really sort of emphasized a difference in sort of this attention to very fine-grained measures of financial success.

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And then this is sort of the the contrasting view. Another piece of my research looked at investor reports and transcripts from their quarterly reporting and this is from one firm and I thought this was really interesting and how they're specifically saying that they are taking their compensation models down to the project-level staff and that is something new

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that professional staff will be able to drive their own compensation and again saying that this has not been the norm here.

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And you can see here, sort of a similar view from from the financial analyst side, the idea that both that these types of firms are a safe place to be because of their reliance on public sector work.

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But then, I think even more critically for professional practice was the sort of idea that these firms offer an opportunity because of the linking of different business sectors.

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So this is an example from another firm which I believe has now been acquired. It no longer exists. But the idea that planning will lead to higher value work.

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And planning is an entree to higher margin projects, linking all these different types of professional services which planning historically as a profession has seen itself as providing independent advice, which is in really strong contrast to the model of these firms where it's all integrated.

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And here, sort of you see the management consulting perspective that it's a good idea to gobble up these planning firms because you might know about projects coming down the line and planners sort of emphasize planning contracts are relatively small compared to engineering contact contracts.

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So planning contract would be $30,000, $50,000 whereas if these firms are contracted to do very large engineering projects it can be in millions over dozens or 20 years and some large transportation.

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Project so you know I thought it was concerning maybe a bit surprising to see that echoed by definitely not all of the planners, but some of them said, this was really seen as a way of getting their foot in the door that it would lead to further work down the line.

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So just in terms of some high-level implications, I think there is a real concern with the complexity of professional ethics in these types of firms and that are not focused only on one professional services and have a business model that's sort of predicated on selling across different lines.

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It raises questions about sort of the independence of the advice that planners are providing and obviously and you know these are very difficult issues to address but definitely you could see some of these not passing the smell test, that the plan is providing advice and then the firms are getting high-value contracts down the line.

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And then, you know, sort of this emphasis on interconnectness and the dependence of these firms on public sector contracts really raises questions in terms of professional.

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Professional practices. So here, really interesting to think about planners experiencing as professionals experiencing those shareholder values coming all the way down to their level and impacting their day-to-day work.

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Thank you.

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See.

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This is the next one's online, isn't it? Just go back to your share screen.

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Just click through the end of the presentation. You don't have to get your skin to the. Just click through the end of the presentation and it automatically go to that.

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All right

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So.

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You should go back about should do that. She came back to the Yeah, so worries. Online.

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Okay, so hush, and you're on, if you can share your screen.

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I didn't. You don't have it now. I will present in another way.

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Yeah, we can put your slides up here, but then we won't be able to see you.

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So if you want to share your slides up here but then we won't be able to see you so if you want to share if you want Is that?

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Do you want us to do it from here?

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If you have the presentation, I can read it also.

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Okay.

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So, should I begin?

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Yes, yes begin.

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Why not the the presentation is about the conflicts express Bye, graduate. Okay.

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Which one do you see at that one?

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Oh, okay.

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Thank you.

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Okay, and one of the presentation is called conflicts expressed by graduate academics in Mexican universities about their work conditions.

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And this is about the National Autonomous University of Mexico. And the presentation is part of this qualitative investigation about the postcode professors and researchers from the National Autonomous University of Mexico.

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The key question in this research was how can the university contribute to improve the academic work of the post-graduate professors?

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We divided the paper in 2 parts, a review of literature about the role that the university developed to sustain this substitution these functions and the arguments about a 34 postgraduate academics interview.

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And this when a week class is I will want to go, can I change it to the next one please?

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Okay.

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Okay. Yeah.

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Okay, About this review of the Chile literature, we found common problems.

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Such as different working conditions due to their employment situation and their choice to prioritize teaching on an or research.

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This is the very important. The first one is very important with the employment situation is different from professors and researchers.

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I'm from other type of situations is different from professors and researchers and from other type of situations.

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Yeah.

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The second one is the use of time to be able to fulfill the substantive functions and several activities. The third one is the lack of support personal to carry out different activities.

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There is no support. The search for financing to be able to support the teaching and research task and to complement the based salary from the institutions.

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The next one is the difficulties they encountered to participate in these decisions. And a variety of conflicts.

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This is a very conflict one between the administration and the academia and the relationship between students and students.

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So this is in the review with specialized literature we found these common problems in the university. And we use a sample of 22 researchers and 12 professors.

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1222 were men, 12 women, 12 women and we have 41 post-graduate a postcard programs in the university but we only used 24 post-graduate programs.

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Is certainly important one is that several of the academics work in more than one program. So it's very it's a long part of the population.

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And they are consolidated academics since the majority occupies the highest level and category and all have at least doctorate.

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So these are the most important people in the university in the post graduating. Part. Can I, can you help me move please?

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Huh. This is the first part the review of the leadership but then we are going to tell about the review of the leadership.

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But then we are going to tell about the results we found to the academics interview to the academics interview, the part that it's an academics interview, the part that it's a it's not the derivation of the part that it's a it's not the derivation of the literature but

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what they said. The first one is to find solutions to find solutions to find solutions to the very bureaucratic administrative problems.

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The second one is the need to improve working conditions. The third is consider the questioning of the merit systems.

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The, the, 4, 1, 2, 4 is promote support for teaching and students. And please sit next.

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Facilitate communication. They will know evaluation processes. E fermenting maturity of the college collegiate bodies and review the general policies of the post-graduate studies.

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So we can conclude that this academics are based on their experience and with the proactive attitude they have reported a diversity of problems that they consider that the university should address.

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They express issues that have to do with instance of different levels such as the institutional institution in general, the administrative coordinator, the postgraduate coordinators, the professors, the researchers, the students, the technician, the internal and external funding bodies and unions.

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This is about all the parts that form parts of these postgraduate studies. Thank you very much.

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And thank you.

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I'm Fish. Okay. Sorry.

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Thanks very much for your presentation.

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Sure.

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One. And then we have our last presenters out. This one.

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Thank you.

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Let me see. And then if I, this is a Zoom Meeting, right? So who thought, okay, go ahead.

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If I want to highlight something, so I use mouse and People can see that on the screen as well, right?

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I use them also. Okay. Okay, okay. Okay.

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Hello everyone and my name is Weiji. I'm from University of California Riverside. So today is my desire to present our work with a slightly different title.

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So over last several months I guess all of us have heard about

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Talk about chat GPT many people appreciate JEFFED JBT for being very powerful and effective and efficient.

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But some others. Are really worrying about the social implications of this AI breakthrough. So in this The free mean of Ch to GPT or the public park.

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We hear both of the rational and economic logic and the social symbolic logic coexisting. Know for this case but this is not the only case actually for many other technologies such as the cloning tanker technology or even vaccine and even mask use under the pandemic.

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We hear the coexistence. Of both rational economic logic and the social symbolic logic. But this phenomena has not been systematically studied by social scientist.

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So that's our task in this paper. Specifically, we articulate our research question.

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Like this. How do these 2 competing logics interact with each other to shape the framing and adoption of technologies.

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To address this. Research question, we develop a theoretical framework by drawing insights from The competing in student logic's perspective.

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In organizational studies. The institutional logic's perspective or was first to developed by Friedland and offered in 1,991 in their classical book chapter and it was later on It further developed by Patricia Thornton and her colleagues.

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In their famous book published in 2012. So we borrowed that inside. To study technologies. We argue the rational economic logic and the social symbolical article coexisted in technology framing.

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Why is that? Because we argue technology has a dual nature as both a physical object and also as a social object.

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Technology is a physical object because it is physically designed to get the job done. For professional workers. But technology is also a social object with social and symbolic meanings.

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Following the rational economic logic, the focus of technology evaluation of framing is formal rationality based on the means.

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And the calculation. You take the target value and the functionality of technology.

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The key lens of evaluation is through occupational work and the key question is how does this technology to contribute to our professional work.

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You can trust the social symbolic logic. Focuses on social meanings and the symbolic value of technology.

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The key lens of evaluation is through professional identity and the key question is What does this technology or 2 mean to our professional identity, i.

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E. Or are we?

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When we study competing in student logics in technology framing, We argue we need to examine the sailings and the compatibility.

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The salience of being student logic in technology framing is contingent on if a technology is closely associated with a key professional identity.

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If it is, The social symbolical logic tends to be more salient. Otherwise the rational economic logic.

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Is more salient We also need to study the relationship between these 2 between these 2 logics. In particular, The level of compatibility between the 2 in digital artics.

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Of technology adoption.

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When the 2 instrument logics are compatible or aligned with each other. In technology framing.

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The new technology is more likely to be adopted.

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Guided by this theoretical framework, we conduct an empirical analysis in an intriguing respect context.

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That is American firefighters because it's a provide a paradox. In technology framing and adoption.

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On the way hand, firefighting is one of the most dangerous occupations in the United States and in other parcel of world.

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Technology can be a matter of life and death in firefighters work. So from this perspective, new technologies are highly desirable.

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And presumably should be easily adopted. Nevertheless.

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Firefighters, I didn't see in the United States. They try their potent and a distinct professional identity.

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And they tried her their 200 year. History and a strong tradition. So they resist a lot of changes, including technological changes.

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So in this intriguing research context. We examine the technology framing and adoption. Our primary data are based on the 46 in-depth interviews of firefighters in North Carolina and also in California in the United States.

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We also gathered a propulsive

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Sample for 279 read the post from 3 large Firefighters Online Committee. Uncanny.

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The oral empirical study will focus on 3 key technologies for firefighters. The first one is fare helmet.

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Including the traditional Farrell Homer and the new European style helmet. The second one is a thermal imaging camera of TIS, which is recently adopted.

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Of bio American firefighters about 10 to 15 years ago. And the third one is self-contained.

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Breathing apparatus. ICBA which was introduced several decades ago. So these are 3 cases.

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Enable us to conduct a comparative analysis.

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So that's the first. Discuss about fair helmets. On the top, that's a traditional leather fire helmet which has been adopted by American firefighters for almost 200 years.

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At the bottom that is very new European style helmet. So we see. Both rational economic logic and social symbolical logic coexist.

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In firefighters or framing. Fun example, one interviewee stated, some see it. In the utilitarian fashion like it's a helmet is going to protect my head the end others take a lot of pride in their homes.

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Whether it is from the shape of the helmet or a certain look and so on and so forth. So most of the firefighters actually they try or the traditional fire helmet and they particularly emphasized the socialness symbolic.

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Meaning attached to the traditional leather helmet.

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And this ready the post.

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Stated, Euro-style helmets are more functional in pretty much every way. They just are.

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That said, I love my traditional helmet and want to keep it. But it's simply because I prefer the way it looks.

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And a care about symbolism in the American Fire Service.

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Why is the American firefighters try to the traditional leather helmets so much because it has become a sacred symbol of their treasured professional identity.

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And they consider that as a badger for honor. For the same reason the new European style helmet becomes an identity threat to them.

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So actually the they they hate it and they strongly resist adoption of new European style hammered. This bad is more advanced.

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Technical features.

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The second case on thermo evening camera TIC. The framing is different because it it is not an identity threat.

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So the rational economic logic is more salient. And many of our fighters praise. And how useful it is, particularly when they scan.

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A house unfair. They say they can do their job safer and much quicker and more efficient. But a social symbolic logic does exist.

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Quite a some firefighters emphasize it is Not a crunch. It is another solution. It is just another wonderful tool.

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Which you can show the putting in a toolbox. But who are the master of the toolbox? Firefighters themselves.

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So they use a toolbox metaphor to reconcile these 2 institutional logics which are quite compatible.

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With each other for TIC. The third case. The SABA self-contained breathing apparatus.

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The framing has changes. The shift is the focus from emphasizing the social symbolical article. To the rational economic logic.

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DECKER DECKER DECKER DECKER IS ABOUT ADDENISSED RAT Most of American firefighters We were really hesitant to wear it because it's a word about being loved at for having a so-called baby law.

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But over time, because of the regulation education, training publicized the image like this, the left and the demographic changes.

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So Seals have changed. It's now become identity neutral. So we see this code capture the changes over time.

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Back then, Baikala first started decades ago. If you were one, SCPA, you were a whip.

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Today, if you don't wear one, you are an idiot. And it becomes become identity neutral, now fair fighters put more focus on is utilitarian.

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Value. For example, this firefighter say for the older generation this Different fair back then.

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Their affairs It took like 30 min to fully engulf a house made of heavy wood. The over fare is growing every 30 s.

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So that's become a necessity. We have to wear it to get a job done. So we will make a summary.

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The federal helmet The Freemen. Focus on the social and symbolical logic. Fair fighters who try the traditional leather helmet while resisting the new European style helmet.

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For the TIC, the framing focuses on the rational economic logic while keeping a good balance with the social symbolic logic resulting is Smooth adoption but for the SCBA It has to change the focus from emphasising the social symbolical logic to the rational economic logic.

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And the firefighters have changed their values and changed their attitude from resisting it to embracing it over time.

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So both logics coexist in the framing of the 3 technologies of firefighters. Depending on the cillions of different logics, the focus of technology framing varies and it can change over time such as the 4 SCBA.

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When the 2 logics are more compatible or lined with each other in technology framing the technology is more likely to be widely adopted.

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While technology is perceived as an identity threat is likely to be rejected. Although our study is situated in a distinct research setting, but we do hope our findings have broad implications in our world featuring fast technology development.

364
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Thank you. Thank you.

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Whoops! Just get back to everyone. Okay, but we see all to our presenters and I'm going to open it up for questions.

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In any questions.

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01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:40.000
To be public for a lot. Why don't we ask Ivy to just And you want to unmute yourself and have a say what you wanted to say?

368
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Yes, coming.

369
01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:51.000
Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much. So, my question or comment really, is to Orleans presentation on the financializing, professional.

370
01:06:51.000 --> 01:07:09.000
So thank you so much. And it was it was always so interesting is that the the context the work context for financializing professionals for you know the professionals in planning and this turn and turnover that they experience which is outside of their control, impose upon them from the corporate level or the organizational level.

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Is something that's not decided by them, which, you know, really complements the decisions that we were finding in our study, which was a decision to take a leave of absence.

372
01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:39.000
A return to work or not return to work. So similar phenomena, different decision-making pathways, different organizational contexts, both of which, you know, I suspect, you know, in your case, we were looking directly at mental health.

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Implications of that and mental health as the pathway but also the mental health experiences of that that I could see something you know quite similar in your professional workers so I just wanted to make that comment that there were some interesting connections between those 2.

374
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Sure.

375
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:19.000
Great thing, yeah, thank you for that comments. I mean mental health actually did come up. It wasn't a major theme but there was a concern about burnout and there's a lack of concern for their well-being and a lot of professionals contrasted it when they were in smaller firms and it felt like their managers or

376
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supervisors weren't interested in their well-being, but it wasn't definitely as much by all of them.

377
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:28.000
So that's an interesting parallel for sure.

378
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:39.000
Well, and it'd be very interesting to see whether or not stigma because, you know, the gender dynamics within, planning engineering definitely, you know, much more gender masculine.

379
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:44.000
You know, whether or not stigma around sort of revealing some of the mental health issues.

380
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:51.000
Of these professional workers is something that is something that came up. So that's very interesting. Thank you.

381
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Many of them.

382
01:08:57.000 --> 01:09:02.000
Thank you. Just one on the screen was interesting was that accounting you see was a mixture.

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But if you go to Russia and you see for the province of FEMA, where you come to for Australia and New Zealand, the tradition is 8% tail.

384
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So there's significant differences across the time in that area. For the 5 item under jokes were age and in.

385
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Women are usually less resistant to change. Needed to get older men they have become much more resistant to change.

386
01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:34.000
So this is the tradition. The biggest day we have to build that out with more age in doing it.

387
01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:44.000
Alright. So the digest one first? Yeah, but it does do it. Okay, thank you very much.

388
01:09:44.000 --> 01:09:57.000
The age and the gender and the gender first of all, I mean actually female firefighters come.

389
01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:05.000
Oh, that's the 10%. I mean you lower a lot of professional firefighters so it's very standard.

390
01:10:05.000 --> 01:10:17.000
Most of jelly imbalanced Okay. So Mayo characters don't make the insects.

391
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:29.000
So in our intervention we don't have a We have the 4 things. Those main few cases female characters.

392
01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:39.000
In fact, that's a It's not because a lower group of citations female in their outfits in the first place.

393
01:10:39.000 --> 01:10:47.000
As an age, that's a very great question. I think as I mentioned, the full example of a faster case.

394
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:59.000
I mean, south. Content breathing at RCK. Yeah, there was, very interesting findings they don't need.

395
01:10:59.000 --> 01:11:09.000
The older generation of firefighters. They could have a different view. The younger generations. Because they were.

396
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:17.000
7 days ago, they were against using it. But at least on Amazon have changed, but as few or some resistance comes from the younger generation.

397
01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:31.000
You know, since you join this. Enjoying the workforce. This has been there.

398
01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:41.000
Required. Mandatory already. It became more normal. For them They were frightful about this very easily.

399
01:11:41.000 --> 01:11:45.000
But this is the old generation. You know, you know, there are steel pizzas on the is illegal.

400
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:54.000
. Part of the reason I have this age is that you should all maybe cohort effects, which have been in the generations.

401
01:11:54.000 --> 01:12:05.000
And, I came to the paramedics and when I joined up in everybody, and I joined everybody that I worked with when they're 40.

402
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:15.000
No, I was the, the guy who scouted up slap, slot, And it was very hard to get into Chinese tradition a lot of times when you've had this opportunity.

403
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:27.000
Service was assigned and the police source was assigned as well. My age was a big issue and a woman was seeing an issue because If you look at the press force, you can have a lot more learner and some firefighting services.

404
01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:36.000
There was a lot of work that, country racing as a local woman. But interesting to see things.

405
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:49.000
That would be very useful. No, maybe a and we build some differences, our similarities, then we were pretty great.

406
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:58.000
And another more broadly when you talk about age factor I think sometimes we'll even when we use a computer, I think sometimes we'll even when we use a computer, you know, or pipeline.

407
01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:07.000
And then, and then not always that we have a pet DBT. But I am at the age of the generation of people will have some facts.

408
01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:17.000
Right? So all the people we will do some meetings, all of those phone down. You know the response times.

409
01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:31.000
Or called out to emergency services. 25 years ago it was all done on the computer and the old people say the time between the beginning and the phone call to where we get to the You know, computers needs another classroom.

410
01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:45.000
And it's more interesting. Yeah, yeah, indeed the one with these real high How's money it gets to the future and the way also seems sensitive.

411
01:13:45.000 --> 01:13:59.000
This is the whole generations that we're really reluctant to do from the younger generation. Is the mobile phone from beginning so there were no problems to build it so in passing.

412
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:08.000
One of the things we found was that response times were Oh, to the actual fire service or You can do it to make things faster.

413
01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:16.000
Many I need to see the Yeah.

414
01:14:16.000 --> 01:14:38.000
One. Thank you for the papers. Just, I think it's more more common than a question, but I was thinking about the 2 technologies with firefighting, the helmet which I'm I'm assuming is also is more protective than the leather helmet and I really have ages.

415
01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:45.000
And you were saying that with the breathing approaches it was resistant and it was first introduced but now they have moved away.

416
01:14:45.000 --> 01:15:02.000
And I'm just wondering. That the same thing is actually happening with the helmet. So over time, healthy gas resistant pupils to become more But it's really interesting that Traditional identity outweighs our safety.

417
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:09.000
To give it something that's Potentious Dangerous. I had. It's become more like a dress uniform.

418
01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:19.000
That's where I see it. This is the the operation of Newport. That's an interesting one.

419
01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:26.000
Maybe I can, yeah, that's that's a great comment. Actually, I've got a sociologist before conducting that video.

420
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I didn't expect that as well. So I was shocked because I thought it was in try to see manual safety.

421
01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:41.000
You know how safe he's punctured. And I went so much. And they use that function as a better function than protective.

422
01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:48.000
Yel safety and memory should be easily adopted. So back to the salmon firefighters. I finished in the United States.

423
01:15:48.000 --> 01:16:02.000
They said I would rather I will not be my life. You know, so that because They have such a small professional iconic Before I ask the room again, I think there's another online, online.

424
01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:12.000
Don't worry. I've answered John Penny's question. But do you want to say something?

425
01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:22.000
Sure, yeah, I was just responding to the comment that you know, what we really tried to tease apart is the gender of the individual professional from the gender of the profession.

426
01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:27.000
And account team may have more women in it. Medicine has more women dentistry has more women.

427
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:28.000
Okay.

428
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:38.000
The experiences of men and women as professional workers within those gendered professions, you know, is, is really quite, distinct.

429
01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:45.000
And so in the regression analysis we were able to tease those apart by having profession as a variable and gender.

430
01:16:45.000 --> 01:17:00.000
Within the same. So some of our findings, were, were, significant for profession even holding into consideration gender or the professional.

431
01:17:00.000 --> 01:17:10.000
And so it's something it's a bit more complex. Then, just what the sort of demographic.

432
01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:25.000
Content of the profession is at any point in time and and across different jurisdictions and recognizing that the gender nature of professionals and professional work will vary across, across different countries as well.

433
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And so that's, you know, it's really interesting for us to take that into consideration.

434
01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:42.000
But yeah, we wanted to make it clear that we need in the sociology professions to think beyond just gender of the professional and look at the gendered nature of the work at those different levels.

435
01:17:42.000 --> 01:17:50.000
Thanks Ali. Any questions?

436
01:17:50.000 --> 01:18:03.000
It's one of enjoyed your presentation. Thank you. You mentioned in the presentation the significance of autonomy.

437
01:18:03.000 --> 01:18:14.000
In as something of a significant variable in relation to health in professions underway of quite a bit of research exists around that.

438
01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:27.000
I think your research look at given breadth of what you were looking at. I wasn't sure in the end whether that was something you treated as a variable or looked at as a specific variable in your study.

439
01:18:27.000 --> 01:18:31.000
And I just wondered if you could say a little bit more about that.

440
01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:47.000
Yeah, thank you. That's a really important point. Professional autonomy, critically important in terms of, you know, how you are feeling at work and how you're controlling the contents and the context of what you are doing and within a particular, the content as well.

441
01:18:47.000 --> 01:19:04.000
So we, because we had so many different professionals, there were certain, questions that were standardized across, the different professional surveys because we wanted to make sure that the service spoke to each the context of each of the different professional workers.

442
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Which meant that across all 7 case studies we had fewer variables and so professional autonomy was not something that we measured across all workers, but within particular case studies, yes, we were able to look at issues of professional autonomy.

443
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We haven't sort of run those detailed regression analyses as of yet, but I can say, you know, complementing the the quantitative, survey findings that we have found are just incredibly rich, qualitative interviews, both with workers and those who were sort of represented as what we call such stakeholders

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at the professionals and professional associations unions, regulatory authorities, educators, etc. And those, qualitative, findings really do speak to the level of autonomy.

445
01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:57.000
And it's not just autonomy of a profession, it's a timing within a profession.

446
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So for example, in the case of Midwifery, you know, those who owned the practice and those who were, practice partners and that was very similar in the case of dentistry, those who owned their practice or who were partners of the practice, those who had more autonomy and control, you know.

447
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could set, conditions. You know, it was a bit of a double edged sword. You had more control over work, but because you were in that position of authority and you had other people who were working for you, you felt less able to take a leave of absence because there were so many other people depending on you.

448
01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:33.000
I don't know.

449
01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:35.000
So, very interesting kind of double edged sword, with that. So I hope that helps to answer your question.

450
01:20:35.000 --> 01:20:37.000
Very important issue.

451
01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:50.000
Fantastic, thank you. Very interesting. We're a bad start to study on a lawyer well-being and I think that question of autonomy in professions is what we're really interested in in that context.

452
01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:58.000
Absolutely. Well, we were hoping to have a case study on lawyers. We just didn't have a lead for that, but that would have been, that would have been brilliant to be able to kind of analyze that.

453
01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:03.000
And what was also really interesting in our studies, we were collecting this these data, you know, during the pandemic.

454
01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:14.000
And so there's a whole set of pandemic findings as well. So stay tuned for that.

455
01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:20.000
Okay, I'm happy to come here. He does a lot of work for Andrea Wellbeing.

456
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:31.000
So I would recommend his work. And just be that's request should be didn't take mine and it's like my decision is here.

457
01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:40.000
So, and 2 questions we have. I had a lot of fun. So mentioned that I was intrigued by this global professional service band in the area that you mentioned.

458
01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:50.000
So knowing that they was quite relevant, why do they, you know, why do they agree to kind of cancel their work?

459
01:21:50.000 --> 01:22:07.000
And then secondly, Nature is talking about hybrid practices and and even with software engineers and companies saying they specifically aren't asking for high-level modifications, it can be saying they specifically are asking for high-level modifications saying they don't need, asking for high-level modifications, saying they don't need to

460
01:22:07.000 --> 01:22:22.000
be involved in all of that sort. So is that a way of Would you say that's having an impact on these saints and or modern fashion so is it considered

461
01:22:22.000 --> 01:22:34.000
Yeah, so with regard to the first question, I would say going back to the early 1990, s that's when that particular techno park was being set up in the state of Canada.

462
01:22:34.000 --> 01:22:42.000
I would say that a few entrepreneurs are involved in the whole process and those entrepreneurs are still involved with the state in this capacity.

463
01:22:42.000 --> 01:22:54.000
A good sense that the kind of arrangement that you would have seen in South Korea from in some ways And so, well, the Southeast Asian countries, there is that kind of innovation.

464
01:22:54.000 --> 01:23:01.000
The individual private entrepreneurs are behind for occupied the state and they have some kind of virtue in the sense.

465
01:23:01.000 --> 01:23:13.000
The state is listening to them. Because they're very good at it. Related to the second question, so one of these role professional films that I do think of name is Ein Forces.

466
01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:31.000
So, Nucosis is will seeamlessly right now. Right, so. The reason why they would want to move into those kind of areas is because Nassau, I don't think I got to explain that a lot.

467
01:23:31.000 --> 01:23:38.000
NASCAR is the National Association for Software Companies. So basically they like the software.

468
01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:53.000
They speak of 4 software engineers of their phones. And they've been very successful in articulating that if India has to sort of expand the product capacity through our services.

469
01:23:53.000 --> 01:24:11.000
They have to expand it due to new clean locations in So German because of the existence of an English-speaking population and also The kind of population that exists in that state are also migration.

470
01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:23.000
So they kind of used to having connections in. Mostly in the Gulf in the 1980, s Joke things people will be reading these people that see more people who are from that city.

471
01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:33.000
Than actually for 30 years. So, please. They've sort of taken their connections from the U.S.A.

472
01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:50.000
I know for the subsistence of theINEZMORE! And I don't think it's documented very much in here I found it very fascinating because usually the stories and I think that there are The big songs like these phones are becoming taken up.

473
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:56.000
But at the same time, if you interview the dog professionals in these ones, you can clearly see that they are aware of that this was one.

474
01:24:56.000 --> 01:25:06.000
Which is basically about servicing legacy systems in the world. So one of the interviews which I did with

475
01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:20.000
Groups within these large forms. This unit was basically taking care of So the buttons that you see on a tram in Canada That's that's basically what they're doing here.

476
01:25:20.000 --> 01:25:34.000
They're testing the capability of the buttons on So it was that kind of work. And so if you ask someone an adversary what do they do, they just keep, keep clicking buttons to see if it works and they're explaining to their client.

477
01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:40.000
Okay, this one isn't looking that when is it what people do want to show? It's basically the nature of a job.

478
01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:57.000
But it is so, I would say a lot of these kind of jobs are under on credential agreement so it's very hard to get more information than this and you also don't want to compromise your One student of what they're speaking into.

479
01:25:57.000 --> 01:26:02.000
So. I had to kind of maintain that balance so I think there's a lot of potential in trying to understand.

480
01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:10.000
Questions services and is this inequality? Became the Google Mount in the moments of meeting itself out in this campus as well.

481
01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:17.000
Okay. Other questions?

482
01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:21.000
Thank you. I'm a great reputation, really interesting. I had a question for Ollie.

483
01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:27.000
So like Clara from the USB community and I thought it was really interesting to focus on.

484
01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:40.000
The impact of financialisation plans in private sector firms. Thinking about traditionally planning being public sector.

485
01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:50.000
I was curious if you heard anything or looking at the impact of large firms and planning consulting on public sector management.

486
01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:59.000
And so they were. Yeah, yeah, that was a great question and that was sort of my my interest in the research.

487
01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:02.000
So I mean they are doing work for the public sector so these concerns about capacity really impact sort of public sector work.

488
01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:16.000
You know it's tied into, you know, in many cases austerity measures in the public sector, which is why they're being undertaken.

489
01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:29.000
In some cases, in other cases, like for large transportation projects, it doesn't make sense for the local authority to do it themselves, but a lot of it is because of a lack of capacity and a focus on outsourcing from the public sector.

490
01:27:29.000 --> 01:27:48.000
So, and I didn't put it up there, but quite a few of the participants had it experienced in the public sector before or after their private sector work and they pointed to those concerns like You don't know what level or quality level you're getting with.

491
01:27:48.000 --> 01:28:02.000
With the consultants, right? It could be a manager or there could be a lot of turnover and it can be quick for someone to fight junior and then maybe couple that with a lack of capacity in the public sector in terms of oversight that I think it's a real concern.

492
01:28:02.000 --> 01:28:19.000
You know, there is sort of, there was a lot of concern about sort of boilerplate, you know, coffee and paste, especially at the proposal stage, but then also in terms of the work and it really ties into this lack of capacity of public sector to oversee that work and that's where the problems come

493
01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:29.000
in, not necessarily in having it being done by the private sector. So yeah, one of those issues did come up and it was a lot of concern, especially for under-resourced.

494
01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:41.000
Public sector agencies. So in one of those issues of consolidation rates. So in the Canadian context, you have one firm that's servicing 3 provinces at the central office, you know, not understanding maybe the local context of those developments there.

495
01:28:41.000 --> 01:28:49.000
They get definitely tied in to the public sector.

496
01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:52.000
Legal questions.

497
01:28:52.000 --> 01:29:04.000
And question B. And say a biological one. So I was really impressed by our systematic literature of you and looking at 1,000 journal articles.

498
01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:15.000
So what would be your advice to somebody who's dying out doing this? Went from doing to using that.

499
01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:20.000
Yeah, that's a great question. And if you were at our earlier presentation, with Stephanie Short.

500
01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:26.000
No.

501
01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:27.000
Okay.

502
01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:29.000
On health partitioner regulation. We went through thousands of articles. So, yes.

503
01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:40.000
So what's very, very important about, doing a systematic review is first of all understanding the strengths of limitations what you're going to get from that and what you're not going to get from that.

504
01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:49.000
So I think, you know, going in with a very cogent question. And part of it is that we wanted to make sure that we were really building on what was known and not known.

505
01:29:49.000 --> 01:29:59.000
Especially around developing a conceptual framework and then, you know, applying that into integrating that into a survey design.

506
01:29:59.000 --> 01:30:05.000
And the questionnaire that we used. The interview guide that we used for, for the qualitative research.

507
01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:06.000
Okay.

508
01:30:06.000 --> 01:30:18.000
So really making sure that it informs that. So what's really great about, a systematic review is you get to know, okay, what did everybody else find in terms of who published that?

509
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:33.000
So there's a hole. Sociological, you know, analysis one could do about publishing and then also recognizing that, and this was very, very clear in the, came up in our systematic review as well as the previous one is that the US literature will dominate.

510
01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:46.000
The the English literature will dominate and even though we did you know a multilingual review depending on the capacity of our of our of our group.

511
01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:57.000
And then just recognizing that the circumstances of professional work in those unique contexts, is very important.

512
01:30:57.000 --> 01:31:11.000
So, you know, Stephanie was, making the case that a systematic review is a methodology that has been developed, you know, from an epidemiology perspective, particularly clinical epidemiology when you're looking at the impact of interventions.

513
01:31:11.000 --> 01:31:17.000
And those interventions are standardized. Like a drug as a drug is a drug, depending, you know, doesn't matter where you're taking it.

514
01:31:17.000 --> 01:31:29.000
Issues like you know mental health or professional autonomy all of those things have very different nuanced different, our work contacts.

515
01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:34.000
And the content of work will be very distinct, you know, depending on which country that you're looking at.

516
01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:50.000
So utilizing a systematic review in the sociology professions, one needs to take into consideration. Differences across contact so you need to take those into consideration when you're extracting data and when you're summarizing the data.

517
01:31:50.000 --> 01:31:58.000
And also the historical, the historical legacies. So it's, it's an important tool.

518
01:31:58.000 --> 01:32:13.000
We wanted to use that to develop the framework but then we wanted to make sure that we were testing that both with the quantitative and qualitative funding and testing like you know in in broad terms.

519
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:16.000
And testing like, you know, in broad terms. And testing like, you know, in broad terms. So a bit of a methodological caution.

520
01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:19.000
So just be wise, so a bit of a methodological caution. So just be wise, to those limitations and the additional considerations that you need to take and use.

521
01:32:19.000 --> 01:32:22.000
So just be wise, to those limitations and the additional considerations that you need to take and use to the limitations and the additional considerations that you need to take and use like utilizing that as a methodology.

522
01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:35.000
Thank you. Any other questions? War would call me 10 times. Don't start one of us.

523
01:32:35.000 --> 01:32:44.000
Okay, I shall bring this session close to an end. Everyone else presenters.