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are absent so Sandra can't present, and he couldn't share today. So I'll be cheering the session today. So welcome at 5 30 we'll we'll get under way. Shall we? Okay.

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welcome everyone. As I said, the the format will be a 15 min presentation we'll follow up with a few questions immediately afterwards. Now, if you're online, I would welcome questions from from you guys as well. so that we can

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sort of feel as part of a

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a group, because this particular session most of the speakers no, all of the speakers are online. So there's

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there's 4 of us in the room, and all the rest are online. So yeah, any any questions or

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concerns?

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If not, I think we can go ahead, Anvara, and go go with our first speaker, and I will just stop sharing my screen, and you can share yours.

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 I stopped your share for you. So you should be able to share now, okay? And the first speaker is Anvar. You can go ahead and share. Thanks. Sarah.

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Anvar N K: Yeah, yeah, sure.

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Anvar N K: Okay.

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Anvar N K: sorry, I'm finding a disability in sharing my screen. So I will. Just.

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Anvar N K: oh.

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Anvar N K: so this is okay, can I start without the screen sharing because I'm finding a difficulty. So I'm reading out my paper. If it's that. Okay, okay.

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it's it's totally fine. The screen share button is. It's just not working for you or

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Anvar N K: I can, I configure out of the file which I have saved? Or so I have uploaded the slides on today. Yeah. Okay.

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Anvar N K: so yeah, nice. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

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He's looking.

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Anvar N K: good evening, everybody. And it's my pleasure to invite all of you to the presentation of my paper, which is titled finding home grounds far away from home, Malabari migrants and football in the kingdom of South. They are there

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Anvar N K: During the late 19 seventies many young men from the Maraba region in the Southern Indian State of Kerala search opportunities in the Persian Gulf countries where the oil economy offered them away out from their precarious living conditions, of whom inculp migration began in the late 1960 s. With the formalization of migration to the Gulf Cooperation Council country, such as Uae, Kathar, and out the Arabia.

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Anvar N K: alluring the in population of distressed coastal, and

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Anvar N K: just in man apart through centuries sold in the ocean trade networks. This region already had long standing historical connections to major golf ports like Jetah and Abu Dhabi, and when the opportunity struck the younger generation they didn't

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Anvar N K: a. To leave their home in search of a batch of fortune

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Anvar N K: most landed in just the the principal port in the Red Sea, and a commercial hub, and settled there in different labor camps and settlements resulting in the emergence of one of our communes in this flourishing city

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Anvar N K: for grounding the football culture of this group of migrants in an overseas land and culture. In this paper I investigate the ways through which a regional sporting culture provides the means for a migrant community to feel at home far away from their native homes and its emotional and cultural registers.

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Anvar N K: Furthermore, I also discuss how this obsession with the game was instrumental in intensifying the transnational entanglements of various localities and cultures otherwise scattered across the globe.

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Anvar N K: Now, to substantiate these points.

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Anvar N K: I would elaborate on the narrative of a few in the loc you choose from the fate Mr. Musa and NATO, formal up from town, which is in the Munabar region of the Southern Indian State of Kerala. In here was one of those first generation golf migrants who left his home at the age of 17, on like filtering visa.

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Anvar N K: It was in 1,978. As soon as you reach. Did the a relative office arrange a job in the worker scandin of a French oil company. On the very first day of his duty he found that the French officers played control every evening under floodlights. It was a consoling site for a young boy, and the could pull up to the village of Malabar, who left his phone

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Anvar N K: friends, family, and football fields for a much better life upon realizing that the young boy who serves the

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Anvar N K: who sells them tea and coffee is a football plan. One of the friends who go off is one of the French officers, invited him to their daily football. They keep layer of his school and village team. This invitation brought him the first moment of excitement and joy in his migrant life. He approached the game, believing he could play well and get along with the French. However, he soon realized that the skill he acquired from the seventh grounds a unique version of football played with sevens.

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Anvar N K: 7 people on each side. By its own rules, norms and gestures were not enough to play, we thought, against the French in the foot whole course of Saudi Arabia.

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Anvar N K: The gestures, skills, and knowledge associated with the sevens for match were not educated. Sevens, again, that evolved in the 19 thirties in the Southern Malabar region, which is now district as the local interpretation of the game played by the British soldiers. Every event

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Anvar N K: on the military grounds and for his camps in the region was played in a constricted space, and their footage. By the 1940 s. The game became the most popular pastime of the region, as the game is, every new kind corner of it, as the only call of a practice

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Anvar N K: since services defined by region-specific gestures, skills, and techniques. Musa, from the evening football with the French at deep in retiring, routing his poor performance in the game intensified his loneliness, home, sickness, and the pain of separation from friends and families. However, he was not ready to surrender to this destiny. He followed the French in the gain.

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Anvar N K: He bought new football here, and began to prepare his porting to erase the habits, and just to be acquired from the 7 fields of Malibar platform. Within a couple of weeks he formed his rhythm back as a skilled controller.

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Anvar N K: I met Mr. Musa on a ry evening at his bookstore in Malaporum Town in August 2,020, during my ethnographic will do a by machine. After interviewing a local historian, Mr. Kouti, I rest to this bookstore to get a copy of the documents about Malabar and football in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which.

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Anvar N K: when he learned that the document I brought with me was about Malabari football in Chita. He narrated his experience with the team when the photo coping was done. Looking at the document. He told me that I had procured the proper document from the right person. He was referring to Mr. Puti, whom he had heard about when he was in Chita, Mr. Kouti, a retired Government embroy, and the former secretary of the District Football Association.

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Anvar N K: played the crucial role in the formalization of Manabhari in Jida during the last 2 decades of century Mr. Kudi landed in Jida in the year 1,995, the former player and a football organizer, he became part of the weekly football of the men of his homeland. He experienced the location of the game

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Anvar N K: in the day to day life of the majority of migrants from Malabar, and how it helped them to keep emotionally and physically fit and enthusiastic. The celebratory aspect of this practice offered them a sense of belonging to this. To the host country.

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Anvar N K: The game provided a common language to the migrant and their Arab sponsors. During this phase migrants used to play on a daily basis in the parking lot long, and the open field of the outskirts of the town on Fridays, which is the weekly off day On Fridays they organize to tournaments and themselves representing their villages and towns back home, and most of

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Anvar N K: the time such friendly matches and tournaments, although not so serious, ended up in 2 issues, and brawls, deployed the game in the spirit of 7 back home, in which village rivalry attracts hundreds of men to

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Anvar N K: least tournaments, and often produces corals. The love of parads for the game and for those who love the game was the one reason why Malabari migrants enjoyed a great freedom in playing the game wherever they found playable. However, when the incidents mentioned Debau became constant. If you, a like Malabari migrants, seriously thought about regulating the football tournaments.

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Anvar N K: even that the the whole tournaments and the noise it produces, adversely affected

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Anvar N K: the image of South Asian migrants before the Arabs. They discussed this among themselves, and requested Mr. Kuti to find a solution for this football problem.

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Anvar N K: According to Mr. Puti, the only solution was to have an official body that would look after the whole affairs related to the game. You see, he using his experience as the secretary of the Football Association, Mr. Guty drafted the guidelines of the first ever expatriate Football Association in South Asia and Asia, the so the Indian football Forum.

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Anvar N K: which came into existence in 1,995, having an official body, encouraged many groups and clubs to organize tournaments, besides the emergence of Csi. That's of serving the football forum led to the proliferation of many clubs

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Anvar N K: and tournaments, now under Si of 5 hundreds of tournaments, 11 and 7 happen every year in the various football courts they find as their home grounds in Github, the home grounds. Malavari, my friends

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Anvar N K: in the city of the the extended them essence of home.

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Anvar N K: Through these home grounds they match every week and shared their happiness, worries, pain, and dreams. The game here played a crucial role in connecting the migrants in many ways with the home and host countries.

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Anvar N K: The weekly coming together created a strong humanitarian bond, and it enables them a platform to share and discuss matters concerning their personal, family and political affairs. All those scholars have studied the goal boom, phenomenon. Such studies have it to move beyond the economic aspects of migration. They lived experience of migration which would disclose to us the nature of the everyday life of the migrants yet to be subjected to systematic scrutiny.

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Anvar N K: since the migration to the gold countries is so cooler, the Gulf boom generation, and the remittance they might have fundamentally reshaped and transformed the region of Malabar through the 4 to 6 months of vacation every 2 years

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Anvar N K: the first generation migrants introduced a new culture of consumption to the

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Anvar N K: the 1980 s. Was the decade that witnessed the flow of money to the local sporting culture which is the football culture, the gulf of migrants sponsored their village team and send football accessories and equipment. They gifted, and

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Anvar N K: football and Jersey is to their friends, family members, and neighbors, along with the accessories and money they introduced new form. So for boarding just those unknowns that they learn from the football ports of Saudi Arabia.

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Anvar N K: they should from barefoot to. Still

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Anvar N K: it's changed. How 7 has been played since it's inception. New football habits, such as proper workouts before the match, and a sense of a number of tournaments increased with the financial support of the migrants by late 19 nineties, even if football had no many villages and towns. Here we can see how the game

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Anvar N K: which helped the migrants to find their home in the foreign lands, returned home with a new shape and needing, and worked upon the destabil tradition and imported expressions of the region. Despite the lack of State support, this

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Anvar N K: for the

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Anvar N K: flourished, so only the support intervention plans nostalgia of the both migrants d birds say at all. 2,013. You look at the location of sports in the South Asian dice for a across the world, and find that sporting practices of any dice, comprehensive picture of the formation and sustenance

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Anvar N K: of that particular community. In the case of Malabari migrants in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the regional sporting culture which crossed the ocean along with migrants, and settled in the many features of this port the city was crucial in linking to many aspects of the life of migrants, and creating a sense of community belonging and at homeless for most migrants. The game offered

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Anvar N K: the language to menu or themselves in their

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Anvar N K: say to our home host, binary is no longer existed. Given the rapidity and complexity of the circulation of ideas and practices

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Anvar N K: across the cultures and the boundaries of the national States. The many matches and tournaments played by these migrants in overseas, courts and teachers cultivated new escalations, imaginations, and dreams, which became crucial in transforming the

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Anvar N K: teams and boarding of Malabar. Hence the finding of home grounds far away from home. Not only for so, most importantly, it was the most significant stakeholder in the production of an influential migrant community that has been at the forefront of enabling the transnational mobility of ideas in our cases, meaning gestures and humans.

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Anvar N K: Thank you. This is it.

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Thank you, Anvara. That was a very, very well-explained empirical case of a practice in the in the throes of formalization. So thank you very much for that. I wonder. There is now

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7 or 8 of us in the room here, and

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Steve

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Jackson is going to be in charge of the microphone today. But I welcome any any questions from

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from those online as well. Any questions. David.

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just tap it to see if it's working.

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Yeah, yeah, cool.

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Thanks for that. It was yeah. Had. No, I'm sure most of the room didn't have any knowledge of

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off the topic. So that's very informative.

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There's, as you would obviously know, there's a big

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capital infused development of football in

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Saudi Arabia at the moment, including its own expanding league and recruitment of significant players.

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And I just wondered if there was any influence or relationship between the football world of of migrant workers

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and the developing

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Saudi Arabian world of football.

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Anvar N K: Yeah, there are

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Anvar N K: the the Saudi Public investment fund. The public the I of has been spending for, I mean, for the last 2 years. I think they have been spending this public investment fund for reporting

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Anvar N K: significant international players. And so they are trying to move away from the oil based economy through a more of a capital intensive kind of economic practices. So the the role of migrant community. So, for instance, in the in the work of a history of Chita old Rick freight. It talks about how the game reached in Jeta.

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Anvar N K: So the game actually brought by the by a migraine community, the in the in the nation migrants Phil Greens actually brought the game to the jita, and during the 1930 s. And then that game got

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Anvar N K: the attention of the natives at the Arabs, and they they can't play. So in the case of my library migrants, I don't think they are. they have a role in the in.

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Anvar N K: you know, making this transition, which are which we are seeing now. But you know, between the Indian government, the in 10 Football Association, and the so the Football Association there is an mio has been signed recently. so so these make it in that signing the the migrant community has a significant call.

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Anvar N K: you know, making this a signing possible. So there is an exchange of players and tournaments. So the local tournaments are taking. Indian local tournaments are taking place in Saudi Arabia, and so their alien place are coming to play in India. So this kind of diplomatic

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Anvar N K: you know, practices are happening.

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Anvar N K: So in this. the question was about in the

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Anvar N K: a significant players, and with all of my, you know, migrant community and making that possible. I don't think it's not affecting directly, but that, of course, the you know, in order to keep this football spirit. And I, the migrant community, have a great role. I will say.

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Anvar N K: thank you.

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Thank you.

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Another question from the floor.

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Okay.

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I I will, I will! I have our thank you. And you may have answered this in what you just said. But what what do you see is the role of the Saudi State. Do they view these football leagues as well? It's it's nice that they're doing something as simple as sport. Then they're not, you know, rallying and thinking politically.

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But the players themselves. Football may be a vehicle where they can gain a sense of community and political power. I'm just interested in your views.

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Anvar N K: I think. I'm not an expert of, you know. Solve the geopolitical economy and all. But I'm trying to look at the

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Anvar N K: The transnational role of this circulation of this practices, and how it affects the football culture of the region which I am for Quest, which is Manab. But anyway, I I you know there are so many discussions are happening around the this. All the football You know how they are spending money for recruiting players like Ronaldo and

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Anvar N K: so forth. So it's a, you know. Of course it's political because so they want to move away from the oil based economy in in which we can see the the geopolitical economy also, because they are, you know combating against the cutter? because Kathar is already a successful

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Anvar N K: State who who successfully conducted the world. So so these, you know, in a competition at the same time. it's part of their vision in 2,030 project. So they wanted to be a global superpower. Of course, they want to do that. So for that, they they know that sports sports has the potential

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Anvar N K: to make that possible. So it's not just simply a sports, washing or anything. You can't say that I'm I'm not in a situation to say that. But I think, you know, using their public investment fund for you know.

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Anvar N K: making their Saudi Pro League One of the biggest tournaments in the world is something else. So it's of course.

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Anvar N K: something.

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Okay. Thank you.

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Just one more question.

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Anvar N K: So,

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you spoke about the idea of community and belongingness that comes in through sports. And I think all of us talking about that in some sense. But I was also thinking about a conflict, and I was also thinking about possible possible sort of conflict that might arise between different groups, maybe the Saudis and the Malibari migrants who are playing, and if there is any sort of resistance

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from either side, because when you were speaking. It seems like everybody is very happy with this kind of collaboration, and everybody seems very happy to promote football this way, because it serves everybody's purpose. But is there any conflict at all?

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Anvar N K: so so this I have this, though, you know, for those who love the came from board. So this is the one of the common language South Asian in my team, especially people from

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Anvar N K: the Southern Indian State of Carol, and all have with the

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Anvar N K: the

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Anvar N K: so the the you know, the the conflict element comes. when you, somebody wants to join the football academy. So some migrants are, you know, leading with their family in southeast. So they they want their kids to, you know, to be a part of the football Academy runs by the major clubs in South India. It's not conflict, but they are not allowed to join. They were not allowed to join in football academies, only locals were allowed to join.

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Anvar N K: So so if if one of my Internet future, he told me that he wanted his son to be a part of a football academy, and he tried his best, but they did not, so so he! He! He went down with the idea that a football academy he opened the football academy there. And now, you know, there are many, many, many kids are, you know, getting trained in this academy. So it's a new business. Now for migrants. There are many football accounts

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Anvar N K: so other than that, you know the only collective practice adopt in Saudi Arabia is football. You can't. You can't gather in huge numbers there as an outsider. You can do that. But if you're playing football in parking lot, and you know, in in parking lot and loans and parks you. It's okay you can. You can do that. So even the C. Ids.

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Anvar N K: who who who take care of all this, you know security thing. If you are playing for it, then it's fine. So between the Arabs and mulberry migrants. So I don't think I haven't encountered any any such

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Anvar N K: in in my field to work. So

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thank you.

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Thank you. Now we've got in the interest of time. We're going to move on. But I just want to thank thank you once again for a wonderful tracing of the history of the and development of the sport, and we wish you well and following it. It's

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it's trajectory in the future. It should be very interesting. So thank you once again.

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Anvar N K: Thank you. Thank you so much.

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Welcome. Now, our next speaker is from Mexico. And he will

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take it away. When you're ready. You are sharing. You will share your screen. I will see if I can get excellent.

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Octavio Maza: Yes.

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you see it perfectly.

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Octavio Maza: Okay. Thank you. I'm Octario Masa. I'm from Mexico. I'm presenting it. The first results of my

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Octavio Maza: project. But I I would like to to

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Octavio Maza: to speak some things before, because I I start my project

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Octavio Maza: asking about the relationship between

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Octavio Maza: his part and work. But when I

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Octavio Maza: I start doing my research field a. I discovered that for most of the people they help

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Octavio Maza: is the most important reason to to do it sports, then it the these results,

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Octavio Maza: Change all my point of view about this relationship. I'm going to read my text, and I would like to to answer

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Octavio Maza: your questions.

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Octavio Maza: In this talk talk I present our reflection on a for practice, taking us a space

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Octavio Maza: for a dialogue with the sports, to the the, with the works. To this. This document is part of our research project, sponsored by the autonomous University of I was kind of in Mexico. We changed to analyze the work later links mediated by the practice of sport. To achieve this object is a

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Octavio Maza: We. My surveys were conducted with street runners who participate in the I was carrying this marathon in Mexico, as well as interviews apply to K informants

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Octavio Maza: in the text, which is, a. You, guided by the question when we stop working.

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Octavio Maza: for which I present a review of the proposal of Max Weber and Norbert, alias complimented with data from the our file work. With the with this, with the proposed of discussing a. Whether the practice of amateur sports.

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Octavio Maza: a as part

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Octavio Maza: of a a material practice of a material sports is part of laser time, or is an extension of the work time.

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Octavio Maza: hey?

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Octavio Maza: On these regard they might find expert centers are, first, that they work of the work and laser expresses in in a sport are part of the same activity, seems they are inserted in the process of rationalization of the work, and are practiced by the same subject, who manage his life and tries to interpret, interpret

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Octavio Maza: it, and, secondly, that sports operates as a mechanism of control of the impulses in that

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Octavio Maza: it's allow certain emotion repressive. I'll work to be expressed rescues from people, from

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Octavio Maza: from

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Octavio Maza: board drum over hermit of their dialectivities, and allows they to menage they held in in that sense. Some of the questions that remain open are related to rationalities behind. That is the decision to practice the sports. And what is relationship? A of this with the management of bio?

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Octavio Maza: The text is divided. Yeah. what you mean?

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Octavio Maza: I'm going to talk something about the we were using the concept of the iron cage from the the burial proposal. The concept of the Ion K is

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Octavio Maza: a very important to understanding the way in which subjectivity is shape it. The concept is conserved by by Francisco. He'll be Jegas A, who write some notes about Protestant ethics in the spirit of the capitalism from which I have take some of the contributions, because

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Octavio Maza: it is one of the most serious analysis on the subject, and the

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Octavio Maza: Us. To update the pro. The proposal

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Octavio Maza: decade lines in the not BA. Made by he. We gave us on the practice way in which the concept of iron case should be understand, and which refers to problems of the translation of the German of English. And before, He develops a revision on the concept from a direct analysis of the Oriental work in German.

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Octavio Maza: and according to Hilby, Ga. They is latest. Gauss concept

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Octavio Maza: does not refer to an ion cash case, but rather to something similar to a her shell. Such is still because on the can

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Octavio Maza: it is some. It is a material that is softer than iron, not only molds, but also more double.

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Octavio Maza: and on the all there, because

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Octavio Maza: it's not properly appreciable. But in the case of the tortoise of a molusk it is a part of their habitat, and they were removed to will die because they need them in a beetle way.

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Octavio Maza: This allows us to think about how subjects are configured by a productivist rationality that shapes them, and that before extends to export to sports practice at least your time, This question is how this rationality shapes not only everyday actions, but also practices that seem disconnected as work

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Octavio Maza: or a sports.

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Octavio Maza: The contributions from Douglas a raise several aspects for discussions, since they are, he allow us first, to return the original a meaning of I don't case, and it debates around the translation, second, in through those a Us to the use

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Octavio Maza: we use rationality. Capitalism, I feel. And finally, they open the discussion on the possible food tours, alternatives that subjects constructs, and they? They then may not agree with.

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Octavio Maza: They brought this discussion. I will do it. That's dedicate for a few words to the debate of rationality.

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Octavio Maza: Let us begin the ready rescue. The approach of Weber, who, in the

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Octavio Maza: hey

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Octavio Maza: a Protestant ethics, notes that they can, in the Baxter view concerned for well should being a shoulders in the science, and, like a subtle clerk

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Octavio Maza: in a moment, can be throw to the ground. But for a but fatality cows the clock

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Octavio Maza: in the they practice

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Octavio Maza: of sports, and it's connection with the world, a of work. Our reflection of the rationality that the 10 min, the configuration of subjects, if one takes a if. We takes into account the way that

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Octavio Maza: in the sport logic we have today as ideas, as accumulating and winning, as well as the commercial interest around the sports market. But the subjects are not.

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Octavio Maza: It

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Octavio Maza: are not doing sport just to accumulate. They do it for help. Well being, and the care of the family, as show by us, is show by in a re a surveys

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Octavio Maza: a in this sense, according to model of a sport, practice, and physical exercise but made by the Mexican government.

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Octavio Maza: 73.9 of people perform a sport for health and 13 for phone. They then subjects who do. A sports are configurable as part of the daily lives in articulation of production and reproduction of the workforce, including self care as a fundamental factor.

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Octavio Maza: hey?

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Octavio Maza: In in order to integrate some words about Northern allies, One of the outdoors who had most addresses the issue of a sport in the traditional sociology, and who relates to the process of civilization

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Octavio Maza: that we will analyze. I think we can start by recalling the way in which and let allies, This defines his vision of sociology in general, sociology is conceived as a reduive and destructive science. I do not share this, View

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Octavio Maza: for me, sociology is a science that has to help us to explain and bit better understand

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Octavio Maza: the incomparable of our social life. In this sense I have choosing the apparently paradoxical sub that to all sociology of a genius.

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Octavio Maza: the central approach of Elias supposes that there is a process of world civilization which is observed in a sport competition that this is for competition become less violent or with less explicit form of violence. They are toll assumes that we live in a war that has that has left massacres

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Octavio Maza: in a So. C. It is less tolerant to by units, but there is no certainty that this practice have been exhausted over the years.

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Octavio Maza: a fact that we are already conceived as and

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Octavio Maza: in the world, coming into questions, the

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Octavio Maza: question that they, the area that societies we do conflict are more savvy than those with conflict, because

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Octavio Maza: A, as he says, we will have to make a comparison with the clear and formal indicators about this process. In addition, we, as we a assume that the civilization of which is speak response to the clearly a European model, after assuming that massacres that the

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Octavio Maza: in and in long time ago are no longer carried out. I think we should ask, returning to a lies about the labels of the Orleans violence experiences by contemporary societies beyond this, causing whether they are less bio in than they than in the assign. At same time we could say that.

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Octavio Maza: as suggested by a lies. We have societies with highly regulated support, With high tech, Silver lines, systems, while the formats of your, the forums of that go over their life. They of societies such as Mexico, continue at the same levels.

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Octavio Maza: or perhaps worse. That is, the that is, the structural violence presented in society appears on related to the rules that the sport cuts

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Octavio Maza: as an example. Well.

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Octavio Maza: the approach of a leer remains a process of control of the subdicts that is evident in the rejection of bio, and in games where increasing clearly regulated games, and while it established 100

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Octavio Maza: a sports practice that

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Octavio Maza: I give it a to to unlimited by your list. The question that remains is why this does not up leak apply to the structural bio lens in in a takes that rescue. Fragments of

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Octavio Maza: the sport. The outdoors point out that this concept has changed over the time. I'll show how this example, as free in relation to the it will appear. Relations, rural sport and show with economic

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Octavio Maza: roll forward, prevail it in the text of how it so with Elias, can can be understand that the sport is connected with class conceptions, and therefore I'm interested in

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Octavio Maza: investigated investigating the way in which different social position generate different ways to experience work as board you later show, with a in that sense it is important to note that, according to the surveys we have conducted, the

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Octavio Maza: we we have conducted with the participants of the I was kind of our most adults with levels of higher education stable jobs than the analytical line of alias. A lot of

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Octavio Maza: to to take stock in the of the way in which it all becomes a sociological problem. These reference recounts a. The term recounts the term of

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Octavio Maza: sport it it's in in. It's sending it within English, or he would. I consider that one of the relevant factors of this record connection with the Covid is the regard, the story of foot football presented by alias as

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Octavio Maza: could serve us to as trigger thing, to think about the practice curry, or by Mexican outlets, such as

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Octavio Maza: it's. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's been configured as dominant. And that occupy the current the dynamic.

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Octavio Maza: It

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Octavio Maza: in this way referring to the

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Octavio Maza: I must indicate that Elias support for Elias. Sport is a covid, and those not observed a difference between work

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Octavio Maza: lay. So for him, the activities carry out in free time. Our classified classify, invite

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Octavio Maza: groups, gr about work and family and manage rest, satisfaction, biological needs, sociability, memetic practice or play activities for topic the most relevant to re relevant are later as issue

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Octavio Maza: work reflecting

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Octavio Maza: on the way in which work and rest are socially defined, as well as the activities that daily the daily life demands, and that may not fall into these large sections.

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Octavio Maza: In this regard we observe that the members of the society also have to perform a good deal of unpaid work in their spare time. Only part of that free time can be debit devoted to laser and sense of freely chosen and unpaid occupation.

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Octavio Maza: okay, I I I think it's a it's all.

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Octavio Maza: Thank you.

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Thank you.

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We have some time for for some questions.

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Yes.

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Hi, Octavia, my name is Venice. I'm from Mexico as well. I work at the University of Otonoma, Chapingo. Thank you for your presentation.

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You mentioned at some point in your presentation, that you found

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that A in your study, in your interviews, and the survey

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that participants mostly

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he spoke about this relationship between sport and health.

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So could you elaborate more from your data that you collected from your interviews and your survey? What's the relationship? This they perceive between sports and health. Thank you.

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Octavio Maza: Thank you very much. Venezuela.

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Octavio Maza: that I, as I said in the first part of my talk, I I started my my research project asking about the relationship between the productivity and sports because I thought it it. It was the main relationship between these 2 points.

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Octavio Maza: But when I analyze my survey that on the interview say id, I did I. I discovered that the main reason that the people expressed is, have help. Is there the the main reason to to to do a sports for me is

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Octavio Maza: is a an important discover, because it changed all my point of view, Because I I I'm I'm

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Octavio Maza: I have been researching about work for a long time, and I'm new in the sports, Subject.

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Octavio Maza: then, For me it's really important. Because I I'm I'm asking, may I wonder about the reason? Because the people express that is more important health than productivity than, A time of work?

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Octavio Maza: Most of the people say that it is not important. The money they they spent for doing sport because it's something like an inversion to to up to 10, Benefits later, when they get all there, or when they kids grow up?

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Octavio Maza: I I I think it's a important to discuss the E they function, the function that they have a have in the in the sport practice.

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Yeah. Yeah. David, yeah, it would be preferable if we, just because it can see you and and everyone's in mind. So it'd be, yeah, thank you. David Western, Sydney University.

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 It was, I was pleased to hear. You

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talk about the

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configurational sociology

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which we've discussed a little off and on in earlier

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sessions. I and there's it's quite a maybe a coincidence. But I leave this conference, and in

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in 2 weeks time I'm going to the Uk to the Leisure Studies Association Conference and I'm

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cog, are giving a paper there on art and Amateurism in the world of art, and the extent to which art arts, practice constitutes

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work or labour.

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So I think there are some connections, useful connections between the world of art and the world of sport, when we talk about hobbies or or the amateur.

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But what I really want to ask you given that you raised the the approach of Nova Scotia and Eric Gunning and others.

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You know that was the classic critique of

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configuration or sociology, both from Marxism and Feminism.

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that is, that there is not enough in the analysis of of on gender in the case of feminism, and I know that you've you've noted that here.

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you know but also

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that the discussion of leisure

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which the figurational sociologists present gives insufficient attention to the commoditization of sport.

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And this particular way that it's not just a question that leisure in the form of sport. It comes.

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is captured in some way

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by forces of control, but is actually expropriated and turned into a form of athletic labour, and therefore is placed in the service of the dominant class. Thank you.

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Octavio Maza: thank you. And and

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Octavio Maza: and I I I think they

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Octavio Maza: gender aspects are not, In no discuss in, in the, in, in the proposal. What's important is a in in my survey I discovered that the women are ha have have

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Octavio Maza: less time to do sports, and in Mexico the

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Octavio Maza: the time the subject about violence is central. We we need a think all the time about the risk people they have. They go to run in the streets. There are places in in my country where people cannot,

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Octavio Maza: Run in the streets because it's really dangerous, but it's more dangerous for women, then they cannot run in the streets. And this is a a a very important part for this for this question, and I I I I would like to to to interchange the papers with you, but I I I think, a

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Octavio Maza: where for for me, and

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Octavio Maza: I'm a professor from the Marxist line. But I am this re discovering the the Elias proposal in order to understand sports. But where, Elias.

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Octavio Maza: it's not enough to to explain, the the problem is with the where? Where he he said, about the By your lens. But my final question about with this project is

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Octavio Maza: quite in Mexico. We have a lot of rules to control bio in in sport. But these rules are not enough to control the bio is the structural violence with a that people leaves. Then I I I think this is a very hard limit about the the Elias.

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Octavio Maza: proposed. I I I need to understand more. What is the I'm I'm I'm working now with the A. Elias text about the year months in order to understand this process that go in the

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Octavio Maza: In the contrary sense of the simulation process. I I hope I I I have answered your your question, but I I would like I I would like to have to. I know I will have to to your email in order to talk

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if the chair would just give me 1 s So there's also you say you? We like to use figurational sociology to understand sport so You could all said, there is a long Marxist tradition, and perhaps you, if you haven't read it, you could start with a sort of foundational work by the French philosopher sociologists.

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So your does. Jean Marie Brom, who wrote a book called Sport, a Prison of Measured Time, which connects very nicely with your idea around time and leisure. Thank you. Okay, thank you.

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Oh.

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apparently. Apparently it's translated into Spanish. Yeah, the book that he recommended. He just recommended this in the Spanish. Okay, thank you.

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Sure. Yes, I have a short question as well, my name is Luna Fris Ting. I'm actually also working in the area of Nobel Prize and had been writing about gender.

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I'm coming from Denmark working in Norway. And we actually do use this theory to debate gender. But maybe it's because we are from up north, where we have a other kind of gender structure.

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But this is not my question. I would like to go back to the first question regarding health.

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because if we do surveys in Denmark.

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and we ask participants from disciplines like running

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and fitness. they would actually say, Yes, we do this because of health.

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But if we ask people who play ball games. And, for example, soccer, they would definitely not say that they do this because of health issues. They would say, it's because of the community feeling

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social capital being together and play elements also. Women would say so.

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So we see huge differences in between the disciplines.

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And I would like you to comment on this is your material and data only related to runners?

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Or do we have different disciplines?

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And in Denmark, and in our way, if we look into class issues as well.

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The lower classes would say No to health aspects. and the upper classes will definitely say, Yes, health is an issue. So we see differences. And this is my question.

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Octavio Maza: Thank you very much. I I think it's a a great question, but a I I just a research about the runners. And in the second part I

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Octavio Maza: I ask to people who do some sports like cross-feed, like a a

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Octavio Maza: he training.

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Octavio Maza: This is the universe. I I research. But I I I think you. Your question is very important for me, because I I

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Octavio Maza: I couldn't. A research about the people who play football in a very In a very informal way, because in Mexico we have this group of people that play football, On Sundays? And they do not more sports than this this game.

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Octavio Maza: and they are not all the time preparing for for this. They can. They are just, Playing football or baseball in in sounding, and then they they

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Octavio Maza: have the game, and then, Bring beer? But I I I try to to separate people who who have

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Octavio Maza:  a complex cable to a their their training. but I I I think it's very important. I I remembering the the

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Octavio Maza: they, the way. What do they separate by classes? And I I think it's a part to to understand better they the subject. Thank you very much.

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Thank you. Thank you. That's a great answer and great questions from the floor. Appreciate that. Let's join join me in.

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Thank you. I'll present it again once again. Thank you. That was great. We'll move on to our next presenter. Jia Shin Lee.

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and you can

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jiaxin li: share your screen with us. Okay.

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wonderful.

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jiaxin li: Yup, Yup, Hello, everyone. Good afternoon, you, Morgan, and my name is Jasmine D. I'm from University Polytechni Monthly, Spain, and I'm so glad to have this opportunity to attend this conference to share our research.

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jiaxin li: and the topic of my presentation is from the first step to the development, the sustainable development of equestrian place in China.

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jiaxin li: And

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jiaxin li: I how my presentation will include 3 parts, the literature, review, and background. Second, is, objective methodology in this research.

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jiaxin li: and the last one does the results and the conclusions that we got.

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jiaxin li: and from the first part, literature to review actually in the whole world. there are only a few research about the inquest train, this sports.

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jiaxin li: and the way the literature we feel about the Chinese garments. policies.

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jiaxin li: and how the Government's release, the place, a policies, and the regulations, and the how the places support the the sports development. And so there we got 4 articles.

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jiaxin li: for example. and according to the Literature Review and our police say, Theta collector.

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jiaxin li: collect the data that we have

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jiaxin li: we made this.

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jiaxin li: It's it's it's it's.

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jiaxin li: And

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01:00:49.170 --> 01:00:50.820
jiaxin li: the next

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jiaxin li: is our objective is to summarize the garments, row in development of transport in China over the past the 40

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jiaxin li: years, and to introduce the organizational structure of equestrian sports, related industries, and finally to assign the support team factors for the all of the questions, for in China places the regulation and the just. considers considerations.

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01:01:23.310 --> 01:01:26.700
jiaxin li: and we use a 5 stop strategy.

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01:01:26.720 --> 01:01:40.039
jiaxin li: By what more? And staff problem, identification literature search. A data evolution is that that take analysis and the presentation of foundings.

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01:01:40.170 --> 01:01:53.510
jiaxin li: in order to find the see them. We also use callifications. I know. You say software is name is need no to help us to codes the collector, the places and the regulations.

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01:01:53.520 --> 01:02:06.510
jiaxin li: and up to the analytic side we rely on the lighter resource to attend to pinpoint flows, and this to give you some suggestions about the future development

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jiaxin li: and the results here make it short. And this picture that we used by the new Google.

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01:02:18.530 --> 01:02:27.850
jiaxin li: a software. And they use a function of a word frequency, and the way code. The words like

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jiaxin li: establish employment as the first step.

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jiaxin li: and the second one is second, the stuff we name the preparation stuff, and we code the words join hold, and the first

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jiaxin li: and the third one is the the all of my stuff. We use the word plan, improve and promote.

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jiaxin li: and then we do. I did all the places and the regulations into 3 stops. and then make a summary about the flaws and the questions.

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jiaxin li: And then here the table is the resources that we collide to the from, and they are from 4 categories. garments for association, atomic and still me official media.

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jiaxin li:  the convolution we got the first is places objectives are like, and prices, for example. this results in places that were beneficial but difficult to employment. For instance.

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01:03:43.510 --> 01:03:49.579
jiaxin li: the Journal office of the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs

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jiaxin li: come back to ways

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jiaxin li: journal. All face of the States for Journal Administration.

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jiaxin li: They work together to release the National Forest Industry Development Plan 2,020 and 2,025.

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jiaxin li: However, in this document the Content didn't only a cooperate with 2 of them.

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jiaxin li: If if the document was to be better, use, use and realize.

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jiaxin li: they need to be more cooperation with other different fields, different sectors.

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jiaxin li: and a second, the place is in customs, and as they will

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jiaxin li: the places where in general.

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01:04:33.730 --> 01:04:56.790
jiaxin li: with unclear requirements and the lack of system of sub goes that much to the overall. There was no difference between the short term and the long term goals. Some documents have 5 years to launch to other didn't have time time limitations. The bigger question was whether building set to so current from problems could be reused later.

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jiaxin li: because before there was a

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jiaxin li: site for the host rising, but now the

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jiaxin li: they give it up.

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jiaxin li: and in pro the sustainability of the sports industry places was a critical and a challenging issue.

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jiaxin li: It cannot be achieved or nice, and should be stop by step. This question class

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jiaxin li: also at for the for us sports, if they have want to eat be more popularized.

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01:05:30.350 --> 01:05:34.379
jiaxin li: the price will be low. But in China

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01:05:34.470 --> 01:05:44.229
jiaxin li: the question class is still expensive, and I, we think that a price reduction is a good way to utilize it. Quite transport.

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jiaxin li: Unfortunately, there was no places our regulations to have to reduce the price to like more people, join the sports.

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jiaxin li: And the third one is, there is a deficiency in terms of professional evolution and relevance releases

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jiaxin li: the horse industry come by multiple industries. and each. Our is different.

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jiaxin li: The entire question education. say some in China is complex. because in China they I like How

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jiaxin li: hmm bhas

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jiaxin li: the French education system, Gallow and the Australia Pony Club.

342
01:06:35.010 --> 01:06:39.009
jiaxin li: and there or not, like Spain, they have

343
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jiaxin li: certificate to get a certain came to off the level of the the technique. And then you can. You part. You got the certificate you can join to the computation. But in China we don't have it. And

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jiaxin li: so the only unified things is examination and a certification of the riders. And also there was no super education system for the training of the coach.

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jiaxin li: because in question is not like other sports. They have so much

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jiaxin li: risk, so much dangerous things that need be control.

347
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jiaxin li: But if they need a lot of that the coach. And so there is no see If no

348
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jiaxin li: training for the coaches

349
01:07:36.100 --> 01:07:41.419
jiaxin li: when they facing the risk they can control it, they will.

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jiaxin li: How a lot of problem.

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01:07:43.830 --> 01:08:04.030
jiaxin li: And as a result, this study and makes some suggestions by making shot. And first, the garments collaborating in multiple sectors like I said before, and second, is also important to encourage, to establish a so sports facilities

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jiaxin li: at the national or local. I want to let more people to join this.

353
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jiaxin li: And third one is the government pros and down professional allocation scores like to how educated system for the coach and

354
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jiaxin li: to

355
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jiaxin li: yeah.

356
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jiaxin li: I, here is the reference.

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jiaxin li: and that's all. Thank you and got to talk with you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. That was a a very precise expose of the equestrian development of the sport. So it follows nicely from our one of our previous talks on this session. So that's that's great. I I have a question to open up. If that's all right.

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01:08:53.950 --> 01:09:02.049
Any objections to that? No, thanks. I wonder. I wonder if this the development of equestrian sport

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01:09:02.290 --> 01:09:07.940
is following a similar path as the development of

362
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snow sports like, you know, snowboarding and things. And my understanding was that the the Chinese Government wanted to promote snow sports, not only for medals.

363
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but also for consumption, to to grow the industry of purchasing

364
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snow stuff. I wonder if this if this equestrian policy is similar to that or different

365
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jiaxin li: are different. It's totally different, because no, they only need, and they have some

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01:09:40.860 --> 01:09:58.050
jiaxin li: facilities that we already have in the north cities. But the question is not like this. The question need to combine different sectors, like animals, every cultures, and they need, if they need the level of things to do that.

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jiaxin li: So it's kind of difficult.

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So is

369
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so why? Because, I guess, is the question is my question, why equestrian sport

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is developing now.

371
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jiaxin li: why does the government want to?

372
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jiaxin li: Chinese? We have long history with the horses

373
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jiaxin li: and the horses is like a culture, and they have.

374
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jiaxin li: It's like a label to the Chinese people.

375
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jiaxin li: But if we want to continue this culture.

376
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jiaxin li: we need to let more people to ride the horses, and before

377
01:10:45.660 --> 01:10:48.130
jiaxin li: we have a lot of forces. And now.

378
01:10:48.520 --> 01:11:03.460
jiaxin li: because the horse voice transition to to scores and collaboration is a so you are to let it go. And yeah, so

379
01:11:03.620 --> 01:11:09.020
jiaxin li: they just translation for over 40 years of over 40 years.

380
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jiaxin li: They need the local to develop me this.

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01:11:13.340 --> 01:11:21.439
jiaxin li: especially in 2,008. The Olympic games. Also how we question, and in before the 2,008

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jiaxin li: in Beijing Olympics.

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01:11:23.230 --> 01:11:38.570
jiaxin li: No team not in China to join this sports, but after 2,028 there's a first team. First time the Chinese seem to join in sparse. As for equestrian part, and then they got a lot of.

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jiaxin li: I think the Government relies waiting to

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good. Thank you.

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Thank you.

387
01:11:48.030 --> 01:11:50.529
Any other questions.

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Do you want to come up? Everyone?

389
01:11:54.680 --> 01:11:55.650
It's up to you.

390
01:11:57.270 --> 01:12:05.750
Would you like to stop sharing your screen so we can see a little bit bigger, and then we can see our other

391
01:12:06.140 --> 01:12:07.330
other speakers.

392
01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:14.900
Thank you very instructive talk.

393
01:12:15.280 --> 01:12:29.049
I I was just going to. I was going to ask a question about the Olympics, which you you answered. because clearly sorry. I should say I'm David Roe from Western Sydney University.

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01:12:29.230 --> 01:12:36.890
And you answered that as being a significant in this development, given China's commitment to

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01:12:37.380 --> 01:12:40.879
Olympic sport. But I suppose my

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01:12:41.610 --> 01:12:44.549
my question is well. One is that you say that

397
01:12:44.820 --> 01:12:47.640
that the horse is, and

398
01:12:48.280 --> 01:12:58.110
culture maybe surrounding the horse is quite important in China, but I would imagine it's very different from the forms of equestrian sport

399
01:12:58.290 --> 01:13:04.150
which which which we've talked about here, which I imagine would be quite alien.

400
01:13:04.250 --> 01:13:12.609
Many parts of China, for example, the show jumping that goes into the Olympics. Now.

401
01:13:12.690 --> 01:13:17.049
A lot of people in Europe, for example.

402
01:13:17.490 --> 01:13:20.570
from which it comes.

403
01:13:21.260 --> 01:13:26.349
Well, don't like it, I mean they they they see it as

404
01:13:27.180 --> 01:13:44.489
An an an elite form of sport. but also There's an increasing number of people who object, or ethically, to the use of any of animals in sport, including horses.

405
01:13:44.590 --> 01:13:55.350
And this would be particularly the case, not just in, say, show jumping or rodeo, as it is in the United States. Another example, but in horse racing itself.

406
01:13:55.440 --> 01:14:07.059
and and also jumped show jumping, which is very dangerous for the horses. so I just wonder whether it's it's slightly ironic that at a moment where?

407
01:14:07.210 --> 01:14:19.259
you know, you're talking. You're talking from the city, the city of. We're talking about the city of Melbourne, which has a very big event, the Melbourne Cup, and year by year Melbourne Cup.

408
01:14:19.310 --> 01:14:26.149
which is a horse racing event. It's becoming less popular. There's a fewer people are watching it on television.

409
01:14:26.160 --> 01:14:43.670
And more people are objecting to it because of the treatment of animals. So there's a slight irony, or maybe a major irony here that China is moving into this area, whereas the people from the areas of the world that that pioneered it are a

410
01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:47.619
many of them. Not all, but some of them are moving away from it.

411
01:14:48.040 --> 01:14:48.780
Hmm.

412
01:14:49.330 --> 01:14:51.280
jiaxin li: thank you.

413
01:14:54.570 --> 01:14:56.429
Would you like to answer the question.

414
01:14:57.840 --> 01:15:09.350
jiaxin li: oh, well, the house right thing is different things, I think, because of how the resting is like a views like, but they also how economic.

415
01:15:09.550 --> 01:15:17.770
jiaxin li: They, the horses, bring lots of money, and they how they make a lot of people to how the jobs.

416
01:15:18.810 --> 01:15:33.600
jiaxin li: And I think this thing is just it can't. To make it clearly is that a right or it's like wrong, because we only  we only need things is just to

417
01:15:33.910 --> 01:15:37.290
jiaxin li: do some regulations to avoid

418
01:15:37.400 --> 01:15:41.699
jiaxin li: but views. But we can to

419
01:15:42.570 --> 01:15:48.009
jiaxin li: cut off this stop. Not half racing. No, it cars frame no.

420
01:15:48.190 --> 01:15:57.049
jiaxin li: because the horse and this before it. Sorry. My, it's like it's vanished. the horses before we. It's right into the war.

421
01:15:57.170 --> 01:16:00.250
jiaxin li: right? The horse is used for the work.

422
01:16:00.710 --> 01:16:09.199
jiaxin li: but there are a thousands of years about the wars that's like it is the cultures like this.

423
01:16:09.240 --> 01:16:11.489
jiaxin li: Can we say that?

424
01:16:11.530 --> 01:16:16.300
jiaxin li: we treated it? It's really by the way, like this? No.

425
01:16:16.430 --> 01:16:22.060
jiaxin li: because they help us to do all yourself.

426
01:16:22.180 --> 01:16:26.260
jiaxin li: A yeah. So

427
01:16:26.340 --> 01:16:27.480
jiaxin li: I think.

428
01:16:28.660 --> 01:16:34.410
jiaxin li: only we only do these things just like to avoid something happening.

429
01:16:34.490 --> 01:16:36.940
jiaxin li: But we can still working on it.

430
01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:41.240
jiaxin li: because it's it's it's how reasons.

431
01:16:44.100 --> 01:16:45.180
jiaxin li: Yeah. See?

432
01:16:50.370 --> 01:16:51.070
Another question.

433
01:17:00.270 --> 01:17:06.150
Well, thank you once again. Well, thank you, Jeff, for me. Thank you

434
01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:14.659
excellent. Our final speaker is also online with us today.

435
01:17:14.680 --> 01:17:18.150
That's Felicia.

436
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Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And bye.

437
01:17:23.710 --> 01:17:26.179
right? Can you hear me?

438
01:17:26.410 --> 01:17:29.259
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: Yeah, okay, so you're

439
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:31.989
you're good to go whenever you're

440
01:17:33.200 --> 01:17:34.830
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: there you are ready.

441
01:17:35.050 --> 01:17:36.550
What time is it over there?

442
01:17:37.190 --> 01:17:44.269
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: It is quarter to 11 in the morning. Yeah. So I am in Berlin.

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01:17:44.410 --> 01:17:49.940
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: in Germany. And I'm really happy to be here with you today, although online.

444
01:17:49.980 --> 01:17:58.869
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: yeah. And my presentation is about racist stacking in the Joan football Bundesliga, a disruption to the sports as social cohesion narrative.

445
01:17:59.100 --> 01:18:04.869
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So I am a researcher at the German Institute for Integration and migration research.

446
01:18:09.710 --> 01:18:18.120
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So typically sports is seen as a driver of social cohesion. And this means that it's seen as bridging social device.

447
01:18:18.150 --> 01:18:29.119
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: promoting inclusion and diversity, building a sense of belonging, encouraging fair play and respect mobilizing communities and promoting health and well being.

448
01:18:29.450 --> 01:18:54.209
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: However, we also understand that racism is something that's prevailing in sports as well on the sports arena, and racism creates a style, and exclusionary environments lead to divisions, animosity and feelings of alienation reinforces systematic inequalities and perpetuates hy disparities normalizes discriminatory behavior beyond the sports arena

449
01:18:54.270 --> 01:19:07.340
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: leads to social fragmentation, and a its trust is based on categorizations, generalizations, and hierarchies. It's evolved over time and continues to persist as a system of power.

450
01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:18.249
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So, looking at racist stacking as a disruption to sports, to the sports as a cohesion narrative. So stacking is a phenomenon found in team sports

451
01:19:18.330 --> 01:19:21.969
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: referring to the underrepresentation of black

452
01:19:22.600 --> 01:19:49.170
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: athletes in tactical positions and the over representation of black athletes in physical positions and research on stacking is based on the assumption that institutionalized racist descriptions are reflected in the assignment of playing positions so widely in the literature. It's typically referred to as racial stacking in our paper. And our project. We change the name to talk about racist stacking.

453
01:19:49.260 --> 01:19:54.050
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: because we believe there are no human races. But there is racism.

454
01:19:54.250 --> 01:20:07.890
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So this project was funded by the Federal Ministry for Family Affairs, senior citizens, women, and youth, as a short study within the framework of the national discrimination and racism monitor. Here in Germany.

455
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:19.440
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So what's the current state of the literature? So the first empirical study on stacking was in baseball, conducted by Rosenblatt in 1,967,

456
01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:35.450
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and it included the use of a racist slur in the title. So the N. Word was in the title at that time. A few years later, or one year later, Harry Edwards renamed the phenomenon in all named the Phenomenon, I should say, in 1,968,

457
01:20:35.570 --> 01:20:48.220
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and between 19 seventies and the 19 nineties. There were numerous studies conducted in the United States, mostly on stacking, in baseball, American football, and basketball.

458
01:20:48.260 --> 01:20:55.810
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and then from the ninetys onwards, research began to expand to include other national contacts and other sports.

459
01:20:55.870 --> 01:21:05.240
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: There have been 4 studies to date on stacking in football in England. and all of the studies indicate that stacking is a reoccurring pattern.

460
01:21:05.880 --> 01:21:19.309
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So what did we do in our in our research? So the first we did was a content analysis, looking at the types of characteristics that are associated with individual playing positions on the football field.

461
01:21:19.800 --> 01:21:38.530
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: I'm not gonna go into too much detail. But if you can imagine that goalkeepers, for example, were described as very tactical players with a lot of responsibility. a lot of leading leadership skills, and so on.

462
01:21:38.530 --> 01:21:50.540
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: whereas strikers in the forward position were described in very athletic terms so described as strong and robust and fast.

463
01:21:50.700 --> 01:22:02.799
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So if we were to see or to interpret racist patterns in these particular roles, we would expect that black players would be under represented in goalkeeping positions.

464
01:22:02.980 --> 01:22:18.819
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and there would be over overrepresented in the striker positions right, but also in defensive and offensive wing positions, and there would be no clear pattern between the central defense and the offensive miss we to feel positions.

465
01:22:20.040 --> 01:22:25.169
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So in this content analysis, we examine documents and

466
01:22:25.520 --> 01:22:30.759
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: looking at the specific characteristics and requirements of the individual individual positions.

467
01:22:30.930 --> 01:22:47.649
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: This involved analyzing the attributes, the tasks and responsibilities, including things like communication and leadership qualities. And by analyzing these features we'll be able to possibly identify patterns and connections between position and the ratio has composition and players.

468
01:22:49.180 --> 01:23:00.549
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So in the main part of the study, we then looked at transfer marked, and we looked at 36 players from the first, 6 clubs

469
01:23:01.060 --> 01:23:12.329
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: in the first and second Bundesliga, and this took place during October and November 2,020. So it's a very short study. I think. We only had about 4 months or so from start to finish.

470
01:23:12.410 --> 01:23:16.969
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And we for this. 36 clubs.

471
01:23:16.990 --> 01:23:31.100
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: We looked at the playing positions of each player, the nationality of each player, and we also categorize each player into one of 3 categories, so either they were considered white, black, or further, people of color.

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01:23:32.130 --> 01:23:53.730
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: In the second part we also looked at the management like the organizational side of the club. So the coaching staff, starting apartments, executive boards, and the management, and again based on the photograph, we were able to categorize. All of these people into one of 3 categories. And for here we had 400 cases.

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01:23:54.050 --> 01:24:08.610
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So just to say a little bit about this categorization process. So, of course. we understand that there's, you know we have. There's this typical binary distinction between black and white that tends to overlook the complexity of racialization processes.

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Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and we did have to define a set of ground rules. whereby we kind of had this further Poc group

475
01:24:18.320 --> 01:24:35.599
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: at the acted in the enlisted control group. So anyone who couldn't necessarily be red as black or white, but maybe had a a a foreign sounding name, for example, Turkish name or Japanese name, or any name really,

476
01:24:35.700 --> 01:24:46.939
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: could be placed in this further Poc group. Okay, which is a very heterogeneous group and not really meaningful for interpretation purposes.

477
01:24:47.690 --> 01:24:49.429
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So what did we find?

478
01:24:49.780 --> 01:24:57.570
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So we found that, of course. when it comes to goalkeepers, so that sorry the forwards.

479
01:24:57.630 --> 01:25:01.309
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: there was an overrepresentation of

480
01:25:01.980 --> 01:25:10.099
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: black people in these positions in comparison to Sorry the goalkeeper.

481
01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:22.070
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: the German representation right place in these positions.

482
01:25:22.330 --> 01:25:36.490
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and when we look at the forward positions. There's an over representation of black players in these positions. And then under representation in comparison to the the goalkeeping positions of white players and make positions.

483
01:25:37.610 --> 01:25:49.750
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: so we found that there were 20 of the players were black and 69.5 of the players were white and 9.9% are people of color.

484
01:25:50.660 --> 01:26:00.009
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And when we looked at the management, then we found a huge over a presentation of

485
01:26:00.070 --> 01:26:04.019
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: what people in these positions.

486
01:26:04.080 --> 01:26:20.750
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: which suggests that race is stacking in terms of this idea that black people cannot or do not occupy positions of leadership on the field is also reflective. quite strongly

487
01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:23.519
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: all of the field as well.

488
01:26:23.580 --> 01:26:35.269
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So in terms of the discussion, unconscious racist descriptions by the coaches, managers, and scouts are likely to be relevant in terms of perpetuating racist stacking.

489
01:26:35.380 --> 01:26:43.920
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And the question is, does this institutional whiteness that we found off the field play a role when it comes to racist stacking on the field.

490
01:26:44.110 --> 01:26:58.390
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And then how is it? How is stacking in professional sports, interconnected with amateur sports as a future research question, and is stacking an indicator of how racism is ingrained in the structures of sports and a moment of reproducing me. This is my

491
01:26:58.750 --> 01:27:18.400
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: so looking at racist stacking once again as a disruption to the sports is cohesion narrative. So by examining ways of stacking, we've shed light on the persistent impact of institutional practices, policies and biases and top German football. This disrupts the notion that sports automatically, promotes inclusivity and equal opportunities for all.

492
01:27:18.600 --> 01:27:27.329
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: Instead of finding to highlight, how racism continues to permeate the structures of sport hindering through social cohesion and perpetuating inequalities.

493
01:27:27.840 --> 01:27:50.059
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and by exposing these dynamics, study highlights, the broader social social, cultural, and historical factors that contribute to the marginalization or exclusion of racialized individuals as an institutional. And and this is the paypal published in the International review of social, of the sociology, of sport. that you can look up if you, if you say, wish to.

494
01:27:50.600 --> 01:27:52.740
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and thank you for your attention.

495
01:28:00.730 --> 01:28:01.410
Yes.

496
01:28:08.370 --> 01:28:10.480
thank you for that. That was a very

497
01:28:10.540 --> 01:28:19.540
clear we have a few questions. Sorry for the delay. It's just having to pass the microphone around, so be paid if you want.

498
01:28:25.050 --> 01:28:38.019
Hi! I'm Treadichi. I'm from India, and thank you so much for the paper. It was really interesting. I was just thinking about parallels with caste in India, and how?

499
01:28:38.020 --> 01:29:01.929
Because that are considered to be the upper caste and the priestly and the more educated casts are, of course, overrepresented in many sports, in the leadership positions and the physical sports and the physical parts of the sports are mostly down to the working class. The the cast that are supposed to be the farm, the farmers, or work with manual

500
01:29:01.930 --> 01:29:26.750
a work around manual occupations. But in the context of India it is also to do a lot with having resources to train and the socialization process that goes around it. So I was just wondering is the overrepresentation and the underrepresentation just down to the selection process? or is it also to do

501
01:29:26.910 --> 01:29:36.099
with the kind of training that is available, or the kind of resources that are available in terms of training for particular parts of the game.

502
01:29:36.930 --> 01:29:48.889
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: Yeah, thank you for your question. Yeah. I mean, I, of course I do see the parallels between the the concept and and cost. I think the issue is is that you know, we.

503
01:29:48.900 --> 01:30:00.969
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: at least in the scientific community. We argue that we no longer see Ver as a as a given fact, and it's mostly this, the social construct, and

504
01:30:01.110 --> 01:30:23.960
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: you know. But at the same time we're still seeing how we perpetuating the biologicalization of race to say, Oh, you know, black people are, you know, more athletic or faster, are stronger because of certain. I don't know muscle structures or something like this. And then when you're thinking about tactical issues, when I'm talking about the brain in terms of how that works, and so that this is continuation of biological ideas.

505
01:30:24.610 --> 01:30:31.880
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And then, on the second point, I mean, football is not that complex like you don't need to necessarily have

506
01:30:31.930 --> 01:30:51.469
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: so much resources and equipment in order to train and train well and to become good at it right? So I would argue, there's no, there's not that much difference between the training of a goalkeeper in comparison to the forward in terms of the equipment that you need. You just need a board.

507
01:30:51.600 --> 01:30:52.600
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: That's it

508
01:30:52.900 --> 01:31:15.939
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: in in both cases. so I I would say, I mean it then comes down to the type of training that's given, the question would be, you know the difference between when you get into the school, the difference between a goalkeeping coach and what they say and what they perceive, and who, they perceive as being talented enough for them to invest their energy into.

509
01:31:15.940 --> 01:31:31.249
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And if they've already got an idea in their mind of who is a goalkeeper and who's not? Who is a forward and who's not? Those ideas get transmitted down to young people right from the very beginning as to where they should be on the football field.

510
01:31:33.130 --> 01:31:38.600
Thank you. Thank you. Nothing. No question.

511
01:31:39.240 --> 01:31:39.960
no.

512
01:31:45.930 --> 01:31:51.690
David Rowe would like to ask you a question. Yes, David Robertson University. Thank you.

513
01:31:51.860 --> 01:31:53.590
for that.

514
01:31:54.650 --> 01:32:03.180
 I mean really instructive discussion of stacking at the player level in

515
01:32:04.810 --> 01:32:08.009
in the Bundesliga. I'm a

516
01:32:08.020 --> 01:32:29.559
I'm a fellow, Brit. So I know more about the Premier League than the the Bundesliga. But and and I think that there are parallels clear parallels there. Just a a couple of comments? I mean, I can. I also I wrote a little piece about stacking in the conversation.

517
01:32:29.880 --> 01:32:43.300
news site about stacking in cricket. And I kind of bought using an analysis that said that fast bowlers generally don't get to be captains. It's usually the

518
01:32:43.430 --> 01:32:45.719
the more for a find

519
01:32:45.750 --> 01:32:52.279
batters, and the Australia currently has a

520
01:32:52.470 --> 01:32:58.880
a a fast Ebola who's who's captain and And I talked about stacking

521
01:32:59.210 --> 01:33:09.859
in that in. That's a kind of class based stacking, and and at one time in the English cricket team you could have, you might have taught intersectionally

522
01:33:09.990 --> 01:33:13.089
about racial stacking, but because

523
01:33:13.350 --> 01:33:29.590
so many black players, and especially fast bowlers, have been evacuated from English cricket.  We can't talk about racial stacking except for the whole team has that has whitened over that period.

524
01:33:29.700 --> 01:33:37.420
A second recent case moving to football is one that one of the few

525
01:33:37.820 --> 01:33:43.029
managers, black managers or coaches, as people often call them

526
01:33:43.080 --> 01:33:49.880
in English football. Darren Moore, Sheffield. Wednesday. Recently his team was promoted from

527
01:33:50.080 --> 01:33:58.300
league one to the championship, and before a single ball was kicked the season he was sacked.

528
01:33:58.630 --> 01:34:03.820
So one of the few black managers for sacked having had his team promoted

529
01:34:04.110 --> 01:34:11.389
before they'd even started. And so I think what you have to say about the

530
01:34:11.670 --> 01:34:32.070
positionality in teams is important. But going further up the structure to coaches executives and owners, we can also, I think, see stacking there in, I know in British or English, football. And I imagine the same would be the case in Germany.

531
01:34:32.370 --> 01:34:40.800
Felicia Boma Lazaridou:  yeah, I mean, this is what we tried to show by looking at the the management team. So the theory was

532
01:34:41.140 --> 01:35:09.859
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: the if what we wanted to do is if we would find stacking on the football field, we may be able to find evidence of stacking off the fulfill as well, and that would be a clear connection, because a lot of research, instead of looking at the institutional structures, we'll talk about things like role model development when it comes to young kids. So in some sense that young the youngsters are staffing themselves because they see role models who are already strikers. So that's who they want to emulate.

533
01:35:09.860 --> 01:35:28.199
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And they completely miss the institutional structure. So that's what we wanted to do. But in the end we couldn't, because it was simply the institutional whiteness was so much that it just didn't make sense. In the end I would. In a also it. It was evidence of our point as well that

534
01:35:28.200 --> 01:35:42.350
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: maybe if there were to be, you know, things like affirmative action to ensure an adequate amount of diversity in terms of the institutional structures, then that would transmit onto the football field.

535
01:35:42.460 --> 01:35:51.850
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: that I mean, that's that's where we we are, currently with the results. Because it was just very, very, very institutionally. One.

536
01:35:52.260 --> 01:35:56.940
yeah, thank you. That's a that's a very, very powerful point. Thank you very much for your talk.

537
01:36:00.450 --> 01:36:01.729
One more question

538
01:36:05.790 --> 01:36:06.630
taking

539
01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:28.849
Hi, Felicia. I'm Annette Michelangelo from Denmark from the University of Southern Denmark. Thanks for a really really interesting case study. I would call it about racism. Then. I was just wondering there are more and more talented and really good good black players in football.

540
01:36:29.030 --> 01:36:40.810
What you think I mean, this is a hypothetical question rate. Would you think that this would? The case would be the same. Your findings would be the same if you did it in a

541
01:36:40.880 --> 01:36:42.780
the same study in Brazil.

542
01:36:45.240 --> 01:36:50.210
I don't expect you to be able to clearly answer that question. But your predictions?

543
01:36:50.350 --> 01:37:01.519
Felicia Boma Lazaridou:  I I mean, I don't know Brazilian football so much. outside of the National team. I have to say.

544
01:37:01.570 --> 01:37:08.880
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: My my expertise really is on the the Premier League, and now the

545
01:37:09.200 --> 01:37:11.939
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: I I don't know. I don't know.

546
01:37:12.410 --> 01:37:22.159
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: but I mean the idea of of the the study is that racist stacking isn't something that is

547
01:37:22.210 --> 01:37:35.039
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: confined to certain social cultural contexts, right? Because we're talking about a globalized structure on a globalized system. So

548
01:37:35.260 --> 01:37:50.999
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: I mean, the first question asked was about the parallels between cost and and and race in that sense. And I think that's the the key point is that how you know race is something that has been

549
01:37:51.130 --> 01:38:00.490
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: become a globalized system. So in that sense, I wouldn't be surprised if you were to find it in in

550
01:38:00.830 --> 01:38:04.210
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: various contexts across the world.

551
01:38:04.260 --> 01:38:18.900
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and it would make sense, despite the demographic differences of those contacts. simply because racism is is just that prevailing and it is disseminated through. He's at the media and and politics, and so on.

552
01:38:19.160 --> 01:38:22.709
The dominance of whiteness you can't get away from. Then

553
01:38:22.890 --> 01:38:26.230
you could say, and capitalism as well. Thank you very much.

554
01:38:28.200 --> 01:38:30.510
Can I? Just

555
01:38:31.180 --> 01:38:37.109
no, yeah. We've got just a few more minutes. It's just something specifically on that.

556
01:38:40.970 --> 01:38:55.870
Sorry I I'm back. But I just I think I I felt the need to answer that there is. There is research about stacking in Latin America and the Caribbean in sport. And it it does parallel the research that you've

557
01:38:55.970 --> 01:39:12.629
You've discussed, I mean, in in Latin America in general, I would say, and the Caribbean Broadly, the blacker you are, the more disadvantaged you are, the further the further down the

558
01:39:12.780 --> 01:39:16.119
the hierarchy, the social hierarchy you are.

559
01:39:16.130 --> 01:39:23.370
including in sport. There are historical reasons for that. Obviously, around the slave

560
01:39:23.420 --> 01:39:33.699
slave trade, and so on. So I think there's no question that you would. if you looked at the some of the research that's been done in

561
01:39:34.110 --> 01:39:40.260
in Latin America, for example, you would find something very similar to what you found in Germany.

562
01:39:42.130 --> 01:39:43.190
Thanks to

563
01:39:44.130 --> 01:39:46.150
any other questions.

564
01:39:46.380 --> 01:39:47.080
Yeah.

565
01:39:47.440 --> 01:39:53.360
Carl, do you want to go up there, or do you want to give me one more question.

566
01:39:58.640 --> 01:40:00.500
Hello, Felicia.

567
01:40:01.190 --> 01:40:02.619
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: you hear me?

568
01:40:02.950 --> 01:40:05.950
Okay, I'm Karl from the Philippines.

569
01:40:06.230 --> 01:40:24.969
and just a disclaimer just to just to just to set know where my assumptions are coming from, that I only follow Spanish football in a very limited, in a very limited scale. That's the only league only Football league that I follow.

570
01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:29.220
especially that Leicester City has been relegated.

571
01:40:29.250 --> 01:40:39.449
and it follow with Tpl anymore. But my question is this, I'm very interested in the connection between

572
01:40:39.470 --> 01:40:49.790
players and the latter into into managing or being a part of sporting itself of the club. No.

573
01:40:49.980 --> 01:40:54.290
Is this something that we can consider as systematic that

574
01:40:54.310 --> 01:41:15.070
we get more white tactical players, therefore Of course, excesses access, and OS are important in In managing, therefore, we get more white. managers, so to speak. And again, this is coming from a very limited knowledge of Spanish football

575
01:41:15.070 --> 01:41:37.350
and maybe other other outside or external factors as well, I think, such as I'm not sure if race and education is connected in Germany. but, for example those who would be employed in the field of sports sciences. are they more white than black because of the educational discrepancy?

576
01:41:37.720 --> 01:41:43.069
Okay, that's my question. Thank you. Thank you, Felicia.

577
01:41:44.060 --> 01:41:47.380
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: Thank you. Yeah. I mean

578
01:41:48.290 --> 01:41:50.339
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: the the the through.

579
01:41:50.400 --> 01:41:54.319
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: The trajectory from from player to coach is an interesting one.

580
01:41:54.330 --> 01:42:22.329
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: and the question is always that you know, what are the reasons why people get that promotion? And I think, typically what the the sort of the medium, the middle factor. Here is the is the position of captain. Right? So the person who's the captain is obviously the person who it takes up a lot of responsibility, and is also trained on the job to be

581
01:42:22.830 --> 01:42:30.949
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: so. Another thing we found our study was that there were no black captains in the German Bundesliga as well.

582
01:42:31.030 --> 01:42:44.680
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: So again, the question is, how is it that people are being chosen for these positions? And where does this kind of the the training for these leadership positions start. And what's blocking? you know the positions? being

583
01:42:45.260 --> 01:43:14.589
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: occupied it say, by by black people. And so we started to think about the amount of money that people make the amount of money in terms of like sponsorship. How liked people are by fans, and and media, and so on. and how that may play a role in shaping people's ideas on who has this kind of staff quality, so to speak, because it's I mean, it's a very complex

584
01:43:14.620 --> 01:43:22.990
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: question to ask, I think. And this is why I sort of turned to affirmative action. Right? Because

585
01:43:23.130 --> 01:43:43.169
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: I mean, especially when it comes to management. I mean, the Uk is different. We do have like quotas on in terms of management, in terms of ensuring that a certain percentage of people are black people and people of color. Because I think there's a realization that without that it's just never going to happen. Germany doesn't have that

586
01:43:43.310 --> 01:43:51.930
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: And I don't know if it's moving towards having that. But I think that something does need to change because society isn't just gonna

587
01:43:51.980 --> 01:43:57.059
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: change. I mean, racism is quite entrenched. as I said, as a global system.

588
01:43:57.550 --> 01:44:00.890
Felicia Boma Lazaridou:  yeah. So it's it is

589
01:44:00.920 --> 01:44:04.410
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: complicated. But it's an important question.

590
01:44:05.950 --> 01:44:07.350
Thank you.

591
01:44:09.710 --> 01:44:11.830
I think. One final comment

592
01:44:15.350 --> 01:44:38.040
Hello, Felicia, thank you very much. My name is Steve Jackson, and just as an acknowledgment I I did. My master's thesis on stacking over a range of sports a long time ago under John Lloyd, who you kindly cited in your presentation. And really, my comment is that stacking research really fell out of fashion, and the

593
01:44:38.040 --> 01:45:07.170
19 eighties and 1,900 ninety's just wasn't considered very important. But your your, your, you know your research really highlights. Why, it is important to undertake this, because in order to provide evidence to, you know, professional leagues and and State governments and things like that to pretty much, you know, encourage structural change. we. We need this kind of research. So I just want to congratulate you and wish you the best of luck on your future research.

594
01:45:07.950 --> 01:45:31.569
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: Thank you so much. Yeah. I mean, it's been a. It's been a bit controversial to have done this research. here in Germany. I think because we're talking about social cohesion. this this idea that you know as long as there is representation, and and to a certain, you know, that there is representation. We didn't find that there's no black people.

595
01:45:31.570 --> 01:45:45.500
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: or you know, people of color in the German, you know, that would have said, Okay, well, clearly, he's an instance of racism, because it's There's no there's no diversity here there is diversity. And so there's also

596
01:45:45.840 --> 01:46:03.859
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: a lot of pride. I think, about that as well. You know, saying how far we've come where you know, showing how sports can be, you know, a driver of social integration and all these sorts of things. And then we come along and say, Hey, despite all of this.

597
01:46:03.930 --> 01:46:07.239
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: you know, integration.

598
01:46:07.360 --> 01:46:15.139
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: there's evidence of racism in structurally, in, in other formats, and a lot of people didn't

599
01:46:15.209 --> 01:46:27.329
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: didn't quite like that. in a sense. So there, there has been some some controversy for sure. but necessary controversy. because.

600
01:46:27.350 --> 01:46:37.599
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: yeah, I mean, society is changing in society changing. We have an influx of refugees in the past few years, and you know, questions about

601
01:46:37.840 --> 01:46:48.860
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: cohesion and integration are very much normalized. But the question is, what type of integration are we referring to like? Are we still perpetuating

602
01:46:49.000 --> 01:47:03.089
Felicia Boma Lazaridou: who should be positioned? Where, in certain jobs, outside of certain jobs, are there still expectations. And where are those expectations coming from? So it's much broader than the just. The sports are, you know.

603
01:47:04.490 --> 01:47:09.490
Good, thank you. Thank you, Felicia. Thanks, Felicia. Once again for a very

604
01:47:10.280 --> 01:47:20.020
good talk. I'd like to also. thank all of our speakers once again for for contributing, and it was a very good session, very coherent session had lots of

605
01:47:20.020 --> 01:47:42.679
So the cross dialogue, so many thanks, this just one final announcement before you go on the schedule. There is a business meeting of our C. 27, which is the sociology of Sport research group. There will not be a business meeting tomorrow morning that business meeting is actually actually our annual general meeting, and that will take place in Ottawa in August, as part of our

606
01:47:42.680 --> 01:47:55.430
our annual Congress. Now, if you are a member of our C. 27, you will get an invitation and a zoom link to to join that annual general meeting. If you haven't checked the box and paid your Rc. 27.

607
01:47:55.660 --> 01:48:02.309
Worry about it, but we hope to see you in Ottawa, and then, if not in Ottawa next year, we will see you in.

608
01:48:02.340 --> 01:48:13.489
I saw Korea in 2,025, and in Finland I think You'veescala Yv. Vescala in 2,026 as

609
01:48:13.610 --> 01:48:28.709
a co-hosting with a. So we look forward to that. So lots of exciting things. I hope to see you all there. Thank you again to the speakers, and yes, please reach out to to each other. We all.

610
01:48:28.760 --> 01:48:41.100
We all have our names now. So you've done a huge job. It's a really hard job. They've been here every morning, most of you

611
01:48:49.140 --> 01:48:50.190
cool, so

612
01:48:50.870 --> 01:48:52.359
no worse. Thanks.

613
01:48:53.020 --> 01:48:56.740
And so we'll sign off with that. Thanks you once again