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all right, let's get started. welcome to our joint session digital futures between domination and participation.

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This is actually the part 2 of a series of joint sessions. that we organize, together with the Research Committee 7 on Futurist Research, Rc, 14, the sociology of Communication, knowledge and culture. Our C, 10 participation, organizational democracy and self management. Rc, 23. Sociology of science and technology and

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Tg, 10, which is digital sociology. So a huge huge collaboration of various research committees putting ideas and approaches together.

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I want to extend to you best regards from my co-organizer, Isabel da Costa, of from Paris. Unfortunately, in the last minute she was unable to come to Melbourne, and is for this reason,

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maybe later she could try to get online but so far she only gives us her greetings, and hope everything else is going well. we have a jam-packed program of 6 speakers. So for this reason, without further ado, let's go to the first presentation, which will be delivered by Nitsan Choe, of of Brown University, and her paper is entitled

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The Virus and the Vessel, or How we learned to stop worrying and love Surveillance.

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Thank you for in San Diego.

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Hi! Everyone

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first of all apologies for my voice. I did a back to Australia and got a cold. so bear with me. I do have tea with me.

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and okay, ready. And thank you. By the way, for including me in this

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panel. And

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right with this. Yes. So Sascov 2 was at first identified in December 2,019,

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as of early June. This year, around 770 million cases were identified around the world, and almost 7 million people have died of covid in response to the virus

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selected practices of social control were employed so to make people change their behavior in regard to how they conduct their social interactions as well as how they manage their bodily fluids.

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Of course this is not the first time that viruses bacteria and parser. Its impact are individual practices, and consequently consequently the social order.

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According to Timothy Mitchell, for example, the mosquito brought not only malaria to Egypt, it brought modernity, and, according to Michel Foucault. Leprosy is what gave rise to rituals of exclusion

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in discipline and punish. Can you see it? Okay. your concert occurred.

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maybe in discipline, punish Foucault describes the measures taken when the plug appeared in a town, he writes, this enclosed segmented space observed at every point in which each individual is constantly located, examined, and distributed among the living beings, the sick and the dead. All this constitutes a compact model of the disciplinary mechanism.

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According to a number of theories. Then societies have been made through disease.

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According to Foucault, specifically, practices of power have been developed for disease.

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as with the plug.

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Sorry about the slides, but you you'll get the same as with the plug. I want to argue that the response to COVID-19 also constitutes a compact model of social control. This compact model produces not disciplinary order, but a different one.

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Specifically, I argue that coffee 19 reveals and normalizes a new social order in which the State views subjects as unresponsive and therefore ungovernable.

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This view of subjects as ungovernable leads to what I call a deactivating model of control.

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In the larger project. I also suggest that social media companies help constitute us as ungovernable, and that resistance to the governments may either, or may either entirely destroy or save our democratic political agency.

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The Coronavirus did not impact all states in all communities. In the same way.

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COVID-19 first took hold in the more globalized countries and in the global north first. But in those countries the virus rapidly spread among the most marginalized communities.

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This unequal distribution of exposure and else outcomes is important because it reminds us that vulnerability to the virus depends among other factors on measures governments take or do not take in response to the disease.

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and that vulnerability depends on measures governments have adopted long before the virus drew up measures that affect health, care, education, employment, and policing

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as the virus was spreading across countries and communities. Most governments acknowledged the importance of handwashing, social, distancing and face mask wearing. But governments have taken strikingly different measures to enforce those rules.

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Differences in government measures tell us how governments see the virus. They also tell us how governments see their subjects.

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Now, most theories of power that are used to explain how States govern govern normally, focus on the practices of control that constitute us as subjects

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instead. Here I'm interested in the State's view of its subjects, which informs those practices. In the first place.

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I argue

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that to decide on the likely effectiveness of a policy, a State evaluates how its subjects would respond to it, and for that purpose it employs a view of its subjects based on a certain theory of action.

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I suggest that what the State's view of its subjects doesn't emerge only out of watching.

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Instead, the State holds preconceived perceptions regarding what we are, and sees us through these perceptions the State sees us through the length of what it expects to find.

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This means that it is what the State thinks. It knows as much as what it actually observes, that informs how the State make us

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the response to COVID-19 helps reveal the different views of subjects that governments have. I find that while governments view and constitute the subjects as agent, as capable. I'm sorry, I find that while some governments view and constitute their subject as agents of who are capable of choice in action.

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Other governments see the subjects only as minimally capable, still others see subject as ungovernable. This last option, that of ungovernable subjects, is a view of subjects not yet considered in the literature.

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Let me give you a brief example for each kind of view.

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Sweden's early approach to the pandemic was exceptionally lenient. The Government did not close restaurants, bars, or affairs. The government kept elementary schools open, people with mild symptoms were asked rather than instructed, to stay at home.

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Instead of prohibitions. The Swedish Government made recommendations, subjects decided for themselves whether or not to follow those recommendations.

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but this alleged self-regulation is in effect regulation at a distance.

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They they did not really trust people sorry to act responsibly on their own. Instead, experts from the Swedish Public Health Agency instructed subject. What was the reasonable behavior to follow, and the State trusted people to act according to what this expert said.

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What does what does this approach tell us about how the government in Sweden sees its subjects.

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Following the literature on governmentality, we know that trusting subjects, self-regulation, which is, in fact, aligned with expert recommendations and State interests rest on a view of active citizens, that is, it assumes subjects who have the necessary faculties and the will to make choices, and who have the discipline to act according to those choices.

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In other words, it relies on a view of subjects who are capable of choice in action.

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Sweden's approach was a major exception, however, and a heavily criticized one. The global consensus was that, relying on the self-governance of subjects was worth naive and irresponsible

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also in Britain. The Government initially avoided restrictive rules. The Government did not impose a national lockdown. It even allowed soccer matches and horse racing festivals.

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however, rather than rely on individual self-regulation. The government employed behavioral tricks.

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or what in the evil sciences is referred to as nudges.

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The basic insight of nudge theory is that people could be made to act at a certain way through gentle encouragement rather than either either persuasion as a governmentality or coercion.

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Examples of nudges include making organ donation. The default on your driver's license, and in the case of Covid, the placing of stickers on pavement 6 feet away from each other.

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the British Government's reliance on nudging with with little confidence in subjects desire to make the by choices, and even so, so little confidence in subject's ability to follow through with the choices they do make.

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In other words, it shows that the government has no faith in people's capability of action.

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Natches are usually utilized exactly because nudges are believed to help people overcome these weaknesses by displaying choices in a way that freeze individuals from the anxiety of choosing and from the challenges of acting

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with nudging in the name of making action easier. Subjects are no longer expected to make choices. Rather the government is the one making the choices for them. In contrast to governmentality, then there is no longer need to align a subject's will with experts, knowledge, or the Government's course.

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Alex Weeden, in Britain.

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the Israeli government from early on employed disciplinary measures to control the spread of the virus, including mandatory face mask, wearing mandatory self-isolations and extended lockdowns.

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In addition, the Israeli government used digital, non-voluntary mass contact, tracing

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the contract. Tracing procedures are public house measures used to identify people who have come into contact with an infected person so that they know to self. Isolate conduct. Tracing is traditionally done by epidemiological field workers who use interviews with infected individuals to map out the movements and meetings.

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But in the case of Israel there was no need to ask people to report to contract tracers on their whereabouts, because in Israel the government has the means to get information directly from people's phones.

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Israel.

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sorry has what a officials at the Israeli Security Agency the Shingbat call the vessel or nickname the vessel.

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The vessel is a mess of Valence tool. It contains the personal information of all cell phone users which is regularly collected by phone companies in which by Israeli law is shared with the Israeli Security Agency.

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The vessel is incredibly intrusive. It collects the allocation. Information on phone calls and text messages and on websites visited.

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The vessel also includes data collected from surveillance cameras matched with facial recognition programs.

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The and and reliable data collected in the vessel. The shimbet provided the Ministry of Hull, the names and phone numbers of individuals who were near an infected person. For more than 15 min.

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The Ministry of House then instructed these individuals for a text message to self-isolate. The vessel was also used to monitor self-isolation by geolocating those who were told to stay home.

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What is the view of subject. In this case.

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I want to argue that with the use of digital surveillance for conduct racing choice in action

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shift from subjects to algorithmic device.

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And I want to suggest that the use of digital surveillance for removing choice in action away from subjects means the surveillance serves here, not as a disciplinary tool, but what I call a deactivating mechanism of power.

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a key for understanding the vessel in comparison to governmentality and nudging. But also discipline, is realizing that the use of the vessel for contact, tracing the collection and utilization of information eliminates the need of subjects to make informed stresses, and it eliminates the lead of subjects to act in according in accordance with choices they make.

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In this way the vessel deactivates active subjects

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in epidemiological contact. Tracing people are asked to cooperate with the authorities by reporting on their whereabouts in the social interactions. This means that epidemiological conduct, tracing relies on individuals understanding that the information they share, no matter, the inconvenience is necessary

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for the public good. The vessel makes people's cooperation with the authorities redundant. The vessel in that way believes the State from its reliance on subjects, choice and action.

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Indeed, the vessel assumes a subject that is unreliable when it comes to choices and incapable when it comes to action.

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I want to suggest that the use of digital mass surveillance for managing social behavior during the pandemic, not only in Israel, but also in South Korea, Singapore and China is a defining moment in our social order. September 11, 2,001. An earlier defining moment broadened the security apartheid and strengthened national security agencies.

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the police and immigration agencies in the United States and other countries

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today, in the name of global public health, COVID-19 allows the security apparatus to move from targeting those who allegedly cause risk to targeting those at risk.

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If one of the important charges against the security apparatus was that it was discriminatory. The charge against the apartheid during COVID-19 should be that it is defiantly inclusive. Everyone and everything is in

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in addition to who is seen. We all are all the time and what is seen, everything that is recorded digitally. We need to understand how we are seeing mass digital surveillance even more than nudging is based on a view of citizens as unreliable when it comes to choices and incapable when it comes to action. Just to repeat what I said.

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citizens are seen as unresponsive to governmental and even disciplinary measures, and therefore ungovernable.

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If COVID-19 indeed, becomes the defining

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moment of our time, it marks the rise of the ungovernable society. In such social order the dominant practices of power are aimed, not at training us, or at convincing us to act in a certain way, but in bypassing the need to rely on our choices or actions altogether.

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I'm sorry. How much time do I have, so I will skip the next and section that suggests that we do not resist surveillance, but accept it in some ways.

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and conclude here. is that a great thank you so much.

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and you out of here.

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Excellent! Thank you so much, Nita, and

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our next speaker, will be tinuit ting from the Hong Kong Polytechnic University. He was unable to come to Melbourne, but we can have him still here in our room online.

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tinder at sting. Can you hear us? Is everything. Can you hear me and see my Powerpoint clearly?

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Everything very clear. very good, visible and audio is all on. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you so much for coming ready to go.

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Ting Tin Yuet: Yeah, good morning, everybody. Thank you for coming to the section. Our presentation. So as a title suggest my presentation is about young people's an eco pathways to flocking. So today I would be discussing about the impact of social class, on how young people pursue and perceive flocking as a career particularly, and miss our time of platform procurely and uncertainty

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Ting Tin Yuet: mit Ctl. And so to look at how social class and family backgrounds shape the daily practices and future aspirations among young flockists. We employed in deaf interviews with 36 young professional youtubers in Hong Kong, 250,

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Ting Tin Yuet: when neoliberalism and social and quality prevail. We also supplemented our interview data with the use of digital E ethnography on the Youtube channels in which they open, came to share and self-review their work life experiences. Now most of our informants might not necessarily or explicitly identify themselves as full time. Youtube is one.

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Ting Tin Yuet: but they do all identified flogging to be their major source of income, or to be the work activity that they spend most of their time on.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So not all the money that they earn comes from or paid by Youtube directly. In fact, many of them got most of their income from advertising commercials or other forms of business collaboration beyond the platforms reward system. But still flocking was identified by all of them to be the foundation of all these other types of income. So this is the common trail of our informants here.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So in this study, whereas our informants were determined to flint, to continue to flock into the future. they have.

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Ting Tin Yuet: Sorry. there's some technical issue here. Okay, so they have quite different accounts of their daily practices and future planning, varied by social class and family backgrounds, overall in general, they told us to rather different tales of professional flocking, and in this presentation, in the following 10 min I will be focusing on 3 specific aspects, namely, the creative labor, their professional sense of self, and their future aspiration.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So the first finding or the first difference revealed among different social classes is the 2 different types of creative or uncreative labor that our informants embodied. So in general for the middle or upper class floggers, they tend to embody flogging as a genuine expression of self and of their creativity. So this is Vincent.

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Ting Tin Yuet: one of the middle of the class flock is, and his call so the original intention of locking should be doing it, for the people would like them. it should not just be about real or subscription counts. No. Should it be a valued in terms of monitor returns. If you are too concerned with the monitor returns, then you would not be able to enjoy flocking. And this is a paradox.

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Ting Tin Yuet: If you do not enjoy it, you cannot produce good or creative flocks that people would like. So in this quote, for instance, was not entirely aware of his class privilege. Nevertheless, his season does flocking in a way towards self realization.

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Ting Tin Yuet: and he believes that only if he does so he can stay creative and be able to build his audiencehip, which is the key to become a successful flog. So for these middle upper class flock is, they tend to perform what what you might call this go, that is, they flock in a way of playing seriously. But for lower working-class, flawless, they had a rather different embodiment of their creative or uncreative labor.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So this is made. And Cyrus, they were running a Youtube channel together. So this is amazing in view, so on a daily basis, we look at which types of videos are popular when we first uploaded our videos on Youtube, we discover that videos about shopping on target and trips to engine. We're popular. So we started to make more of these videos, and they were somewhat successful in as I was jumped in.

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Ting Tin Yuet: we constantly keep track of the view comes even when we don't want to look at the anymore. Then they said, because we need to analyze them in order to know what the audience interests are.

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Ting Tin Yuet: Only then we all we can make more videos that people like this year. We also started to analyze their comments, to know better what they like these days, so as opposed to middle upper class flog is low working class focus, tend to flock about what the audience like instead of what they like, due to the lack of class privilege as revealed in this exact interview. They even perform more extra labor.

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Ting Tin Yuet: the so-called customer research in order to flock more what they don't like. and this becomes even more obvious. In another lower class flog is recount.

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Ting Tin Yuet: and this is golden. So Gordon, said, about a year ago I began to shoot more low cost videos, such as gaming and shocking frogs to maximize my profits and somewhat somehow, these low cost videos are more popular with the audience. But actually, I don't like to make these videos. My channel started with short movies. this has been what my channel is about. And I had to make this low cost videos to keep my audiencehip.

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Ting Tin Yuet: Then I asked Gordon, what is the ratio between the low cost videos and shop movies? in your production? Then God in, replied, I think it's about 10 to one I make 10 low cost videos for a living, so that I can make one shop movies to set by myself, because this is what I want to do and enjoy doing so for golden May, Cyrus and other lower class floggers. Most of the flocking activities are kind of necessary evil for them to perform on a daily basis

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Ting Tin Yuet: due to their lack of such a class privilege. They had to produce content in the hope of being able to create so for them. Most of their flocking activities were somewhat habitual, and were performed unwillingly in exchange for some moments of creation.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So, to quickly summarize the first finding for the middle class floggers given their class privilege, they were more successful to, so to speak, in turn their leisure into work. They are engaging in digital creation, literally

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Ting Tin Yuet: erez agmoni. By contrast, we have the lower and working class focus who were more likely to get an engage in content production as opposed to creation, and they are more concerned about the returns of their labor in terms of immediate paid off 150.

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Ting Tin Yuet: As we have seen in the accounts, it has a direct impact on the creativity and motivation to flock especially over time and due to difference in the meanings they attach to their flocking activities. Video and lower class floggers came to articulate quite different orientations and relationships to the digital creative work. While one of these orientations promote

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Ting Tin Yuet: creativity, the other orientation, exhaust this creativity.

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Ting Tin Yuet: And then our second finding is about the impact of social class on this young people's professional identities. So this is Winson again. The middle class flock is so, Vincent, that I really enjoy people telling me that they went somewhere because they saw my videos about these places. It can be motivated. It it it makes me thinking that I'm contributing to the society in some ways. Blah blah blah, then, he said.

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Ting Tin Yuet: but I will make these videos to just satisfy their needs. The customers needs. If or when that happens, the audience will stop watching me.

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Ting Tin Yuet: I believe they like watching me because they like where I am. So this is a typical expression of middle or upper class flog is identity, very self-confident, but at the same time I'm very self independent, which is quite different from the lower class flock is identity, which looks like this. So this is May. Again.

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Ting Tin Yuet: I would only define myself as a comment, creative, I I saying, to be called a youtuber, you need to have over 1 million subscriptions, especially for the title of Kl. You need to have a good opinion about the outside world. I think I'm just an ordinary person sharing what I like in my life, and I'm definitely not an opinion needed. But actually, as a matter of fact, May has way. More subscription numbers and will counts than

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Ting Tin Yuet: Vincent that we just we just was just so so. And then there's a Rebecca, and now the lower class flock. I I recently thought I, I won't be too excited about getting the awarded super creative. What I thought it does does not matter whether there is in a what or not, but surprisingly, I was very, very happy when I receive it, and blah blah blah, because I was finally certified.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So, as you can see from these accounts. Middle upper class flog is tend to be more capable of building a stronger professional self, precisely because the self is what Goffman might call a, since he itself derive directly from the intrinsic mini of the flogging activities which is again enabled by the class privilege as discussed.

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Ting Tin Yuet: As for the lower class flog is, they tend to have a cynical self, while heavily relying on external recognition as the source of their professional self. Again due to a lack of class privilege.

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Ting Tin Yuet: And, as you can imagine, whenever the platform precarity came when the ups and downs hits all of these youtubers, as they always do in our time of crisis the more privileged flockers will be able to remain. We see it because they have been more independent and self reliant, while the less privileged flock is tend to be more vulnerable when going through platform, procurity and uncertainty.

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Ting Tin Yuet: And this leads us to the final finding.

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Ting Tin Yuet: they diverging working features.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So this is Paul, a middle upper class flock, and how he faces platform uncertainty. So nowadays I quote nowadays where the and how you can, opting social influence and attention is the key to all kinds of business. Even if my Youtube career will fail. One day I have accumulated the experiences and build up my skills.

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Ting Tin Yuet: they would be invaluable for my future businesses, even if I would no longer be a youtuber. I think it is kind of investment in myself.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So for Paul and other middle and upper class floggers, the uncertain future is seen by them as already certain in the world of business, they embrace and

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Ting Tin Yuet: accept uncertainty already for them. They are creative labor along with all the assault as they make and the time they spend on flogging as something accumulative into the future.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So even if they see to be a Youtube bill one day, these things they embass in will not just go away. And as a result of this special perception of future.

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Ting Tin Yuet: instead of holding back during procurity and uncertainty, they there to invest even more into digital creation. So this is Paul, again, in the same interview. I have been thinking where that I should expand my channel into the field. Blah! Blah blah. So for one, I'm thinking about forming a team to make mandarin subtitles for my videos so that my channel can target not just the Hong Kong market, but also the main in China.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So this is how middle class floggers see and plan their future by embodding and union self entrepreneurial labor as they should, but the future or its imagination, is is quite different for the lower class floggers one.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So it is Israeli, a lower or working class

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Ting Tin Yuet: quote in a world of Youtube and algorithms. Things are changing every day. You never know what's next in the industry, and for how long you and your China will last. I have been gradually shifting my work towards post production. For instance, I am editing more and more videos for artists, just in case I have also been trying any education set up.

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Ting Tin Yuet: I have been teaching kids with your production at some local school, so, as you can see for the lower class flogus in the face of uncertain future, they construct their own certain future, and they already started to engage in preparation. No labor in in preparing for their own certain future. Unlike the middle class floggers with. They focused on the digital creation.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So to quickly sum up.

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Ting Tin Yuet: middle class flockers tend to imagine future as investment.

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Ting Tin Yuet: while the lower class flock is constructed on alternate future in the face of platform uncertainty. And because of this difference in the perception and meaning of the future middle class, floggers were more able to stay, focus and keep performing their creative labour, whereas the lower class floggers came to engage in preparation or labor and started to distract themselves.

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Ting Tin Yuet: So I have just share my findings quickly regarding how social class shape young people's flocking pathway in terms of creative labor, professional self and future planning.

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Ting Tin Yuet: The take on point is that we need to look at social class and inequality more seriously in order to have a better understanding of the current condition of digital creative work. Precisely because our time is categorized by platform precarity which tends to individualize and families security.

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Ting Tin Yuet: And not a more specific contribution of this research is about the relationship between platform procure and the future of work. In a literature there is a popular discourse regarding the aspiration of labor, or the so called venture labor for describing the life of of creative workers. Within this framework influences are conceived to be chasing after a romanticized dream. 150

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Ting Tin Yuet: officer stuff into the future, so that they exploit themselves here now. So within this framework the young people are not just self exploiting themselves, but they are also being sort of uncritically anticipating a future which may never come.

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Ting Tin Yuet: But my finding just reveal quite differently, at least especially for the less privileged flock. It's for them. Even if they want to stay anticipatory, they cannot afford to do so for the obvious reasons. So instead of blindly exploiting themselves and romanticizing the future one.

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Ting Tin Yuet: We just saw the lower working class for blockers. We configurate their own certain features, certain in quotation marks, of course, and this understanding of constructing someone's own certain features and miss, and despite uncertain features, brings back the discussion of youth agency. And yet it's still works within the structure on, and constraints for us to understand how young people today

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Ting Tin Yuet: work towards the future, not in terms of enrollment, has size, aspirational future, but rather in the form of a self-assured

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Ting Tin Yuet: out in the future. So this is all I want to share about this research. Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much. Tinder at sting. This was truly fascinating. full of amazing new and and analysis. our next speakers will be Glenn Berman, of the Australian National University, and Kate Williams, University of Melbourne with a paper entitled Hybridity and the Construction of Digital Futures.

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Okay.

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thank you.

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 I'm also going to apologize. I'm probably going to cough a lot. It's not Covid, it's just allergies. So nobody said. I read any title of my papers with as much enthusiasm. So thank you. I'm going to present you today on behalf of myself and Kate Williams. This is an ongoing research project, and what we presented today is kind of one snapshot of that it's a bit of a work in progress.

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So the overarching focus many these days, it's too small. The overarching focus of our ongoing research project is knowledge production in the field of AI.

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So we draw on the concept of hybridity which I'm going to introduce in a second to investigate how AI researchers are situated within the logics of academic, commercial, and public institutions.

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And so in the particular work that I'm going to be presenting on today, we look in particular, a knowledge production practices of AI researchers engaged in the production of large language models, Llms or short.

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again, I know many of you are going to be familiar with Llms already, but I'll talk a little bit more about why, that's of interest in a moment.

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And for us the significance of this work, or I guess the relevance of this work to digital futures kind of rests on 2 alternate assumptions. the first is that Llms or so-called generative AI more broadly, are likely to be critical infrastructures for digital futures into the future.

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and the second is that the social arrangements and conditions under which Lms. Are produced are likely to be similar to the social arrangements and conditions under which other digital technologies are produced into the future. In other words, even if Llm's. I guess the itch technology of the moment, the social structures which are enrolled in their production are going to continue to be relevant to the construction of digital futures into the future.

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So

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to start with, to talk about hybridity, and I guess I should give a shout out here we've got a paper coming up in big data and society titled Investigating hypothesis in artificial intelligence and research which I'm really just going to summarize on this slide. but

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for talking to our Lms. Let me talk a little bit more about hybridity. So hybrid sites are those that integrate cultural patterns, values, beliefs, and practices that arise from multiple fields or societal level logics. a classic example of social enterprises which explicitly attempt to combine the logic of the market with the logic of the third sector. Another example are, think tanks which Thomas Mendez describes as combining the logic of the Academy with the logic of party politics and policy making.

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So within research settings, the concept of hubidity has become increasingly relevant, due to broad changes in the nature and structure of research.

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Sometimes these changes are described as post academic science, in which knowledge production generally is increasingly applied, transdisciplinary, and transient.

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but really relevantly. For us. This broad shift has seen a necessary integration of distinct logics or institutional cultures. So, for example, in the entrepreneurial science model, it's argued that scientific and economic arenas have converged in research practices

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and similarly, in the academic capitalism model, it's argued that increasing competition among researchers for external funding and increasing market activities is unfolding in research practices.

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So as a consequence of this, research, institutions generally have become more hybrid, and in some instances new research organizations have been formed for the specific purpose of better combining the distinct projects of multiple fields.

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And so, just to make this a little bit more concrete, this is a lovely propaganda image from open AI.

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And so I'm sure you're familiar with R. And I already. They're the makers of Chat, Gt. And a bunch of other Gp. 2 large language models. They describe themselves as a quite research and deployment company, and their organizational structure is quite interesting, as they are a for-profit organization governed by a non-profit entity.

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So we argue that open AI are a classic example of a hybrid organization. They attempt to integrate the cultural patterns and logics of academic research with the logics of the commercial sphere.

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And interestingly, they're really quite explicit about how they do this in the rationale for this. And so I'll read here from there about page slightly truncated, but

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we found at the open AI nonprofit in late 2,015, with the goal of building safe and beneficial, artificial general intelligence for the benefit of humanity.

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Seeing no clear path in the public sector, and given the success of other ambitious projects in private industry, we decided to pursue this project through private means found by strong commitments to the public good.

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We always suspected that our project would be capital intensive, which is why we launched with the goal of a 1 billion dollars in donation commitments. It became increasingly clear that donations alone would not scale with the cost of computational power and talent required to push core research forward, jeopardizing our mission. So we devised the structure to preserve our non profits. Core mission governance and oversight, while enabling us to raise the capital for our mission

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and quick.

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So you can see here a very clear attempt to create an organizational structure that can better mobilize logics of the market for the perhaps, of their research mission.

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We get at the port at the same time. It's important to note here that the resource challenges that open AI describes themselves as being subject to are also present for all researchers in the AI field, including those working in traditional academic institutions. So, in other words, all AI researchers and institutions need to grapple with resource accumulation challenges. And so across the AI field we expect to see different forms of hybridity emerging.

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And so in this project, we're interested in particular in looking at how researchers engage in the production of Lms engage in hybrid knowledge production practices.

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So to turn to large language models.

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as I'm sure you're going to be familiar with already in computer science. A large language model is this is a statistical model of natural language. over the past 10 years language models have become large in 2 senses of the word.

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First, the data sets used to train language models have grown exponentially. So. The latest language models like Gp, 2, 3 are essentially trained on almost all of the English speaking Internet. secondly, The number of parameters used within a model have also grown exponentially into the billions.

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So for our purposes, Lms are interesting for several reasons. First, As the quote from open AI highlights, their production requires assembling very significant computational resources.

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and so, therefore, Llm. Production presents both engineering challenges in terms of how to most efficiently make use of existing resources and also resource accumulation challenges in terms of recruiting expertise, collecting data and accessing compute power for model training.

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So this means that accordingly, alongside new strategies for resource accumulation, Llm production is also prompting a race to identify opportunities for commercial exploitation.

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and we saw this recently with Microsoft's somewhat problematic launch of being Gbt. Off the back of Open eyes work on Jupiter.

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Meanwhile Lms are also the objects of scientific research. So the engineering challenges presented by Andlms are the focus of applied research in a host of fields. Computer science data sites, software engineering.

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and the race to commercialization is also sparing applied research in a number of fields from human computer interaction to the nascent AI Ethics field

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and the capabilities of state of the art Lms are also spurring basic research in a wide range of fields from cognitive science to mathematics and information science. And this is because fundamentally, while we have strong empirical evidence for many of the capabilities of Lms. We've got very little theoretical understanding of how those capabilities arise.

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and so

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it's worth noting here as well that all this research itself requires substantial resources as well as direct access to state of the art lions. And so this itself is also prompting further new resource, accumulation strategies.

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And it's also collapsing distinctions between research and applied settings, between research on the production of Lms and research on Lms themselves.

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And finally, Lms are also objects of public policy debate and news media reporting, which is also impacting their knowledge production. And we saw that, for example, in this way open. AI emphasizes, quote the public good, and quote human benefit in its description of itself.

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So given all of this, we argue. The Lms. Or the production of Lms is a complex social activity required in coordination across multiple fields, academic economic policy media. And within these fields, across multiple domains, for instance, applied in basic research in the economic, in the academic field, national research funding systems and venture funding systems in the economic field.

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As such, the production of Lms does not fit neatly into traditional field level dichotomies, such as academic versus corporate

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or standard domain-level dichotomies, such as applied versus basic research.

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rather lm production occurs at hybrid sites where these d academies are collapsed and renegotiated.

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And we're focused on exploring how researchers navigate and engage in this work. So as this is a work in progress. These are the 2 research questions you can see in the slide that are the focus of our work.

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as you can see, our objective is to develop an empirical account of how individual offers engaged in the production and study of state of the Lms. Are situated within overlapping fields, recognising that they themselves are active participants in that situation.

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As it can be seen, our unit of analysis are individual authors. who have contributed to technical, academic, or great literature published alongside the release of Llms. And

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one of the things we're interested in trying to understand here is what, if anything is unique about knowledge production in this context. And so we intend to contrast the production of Lms with knowledge. Production practices in the field of natural language processing which can, we argue, can be thought of as the kind of traditional academic home. For for this sort of research.

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 the research method we intend to undertake is a comparative analysis, or we are undertaking is a comparative analysis of author and publication characteristics across 2 data sets.

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here. It's just worth noting that one challenge we face is that really, I guess, reflecting that hybrid nature of Llm. Knowledge production, there's not really any uniform approach to releasing large language models, and so each time An and Lm. Such as G. P. 2, 3, or 4 is released.

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The creators have actually taken quite divergent approaches to their publication. So in some instances a traditional academic computer science path has been has been followed where a publication with a demonstration paper has been released in a prestigious academic venue. Particularly computed. Europe's a conference

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and that's often followed or alongside a technical paper, an open source and an open source code repository.

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But in other instances creators of Lms have only published blog posts explaining their achievements alongside an Api, for example, that enables controlled interaction with their own.

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And so, because of this, our data collection strategy has made it to be quite flexible and quite open with attempted to essentially Hoover up any of the written words that have been produced by Lm. Creators in the 4 Lms that we're focused on in particular, and will then compare that to publications that have been released in the corresponding years at top, natural language, processing venues.

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And finally, just to give you a sense of the sorts of questions that we are asking ourselves or asking of our data.

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Here's a sense of some of those questions.

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And

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you know a hypothesis, really, that that could be read between the lines of these questions, I guess, is that Llm. Knowledge production is unlikely to reflect the logic strictly of the Academy.

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we expect to see qualitative differences in what is actually published across these 2 data sets. So, for example, we expect qualitative differences in the extent to which models are made available for analysis and critique

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extent to which ethical considerations are discussed.

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the manner in which claims about capabilities and performance are evidenced. But we're not really going to know that until the analysis is completed later this year.

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And so, just to conclude, as this is work in progress, we really do welcome any and all feedback, particularly interested in suggestions for improving our research, conceptualization and design, and also in recommendations for related work. So alternate theoretical lenses to consider.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much. This is fascinating.

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Our next speaker is Amy Mao, from Victoria University, here in Australia, with a paper entitled Tracing the Tensions of networked feminism on Reddit's 2 chromosomes.

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A and.

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sir.

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All right.

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Hi, everyone. Thank you for being here today, and thanks for having me. My name is Amy Mole. I'm an early career researcher at Victoria University here in Melbourne.

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So the paper I presented at today draws on some of the findings from my doctoral dissertation

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which really sort to explore the impact that social media platforms have on the structure, functionality and political potential of networked feminist communities.

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So more specifically, this paper delves into how these platforms contribute to shaping the communicative practices of the individuals within within network feminist communities.

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and what implications this influence might hold for key political strategies, such as feminist consciousness raising. So let's begin

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to start off. I want to introduce you to the community at the center of my research. And that's reddits to X chromosomes.

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One of the largest feminist communities in the English-speaking world reddits to X chromosomes, describes itself as a community for both serious and silly content that is intended for women's perspectives. And at present this subreddit is home to over 13.5 million subscribers.

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taking a quick scroll through the community, and you'll encounter a whole broad spectrum of posts. Topics ranging from news and current affairs, advice, personal achievements and cautionary tales.

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of course, due to the the community's commitment to amplifying women's voices. You'll also see narratives of discrimination, oppression, sexual abuse harassment, and violence.

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but beyond this diversity of content matter, you'll find that many of the posts made to the community are focused on the self-disclosures of individual users, on the anecdotes and experiences that give shape to everyday life. And it's this practice of self-disclosure that is the focus of our discussion today.

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Of course, sharing personal experiences isn't a new phenomenon Theories of interpersonal communication suggest that sharing information about ourselves with others can serve a whole range of purposes from strengthening our relationships to furthering our social goals.

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Yet with the advent of digital media, this practice of self-disclosure has been dramatically transformed

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prior to the hyper connectivity offered by the Internet self-disclosure typically occurred in interpersonal one on one or small group settings. But with the advent of participatory media, self-disclosure increasingly occurs in mass, personal many to many and multidirectional contexts.

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Here personal experiences are knowingly broadcast to vast audiences, and the act of sharing personal experiences now happens in a far more public, potentially permanent and widely accessible way.

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Sorry

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this shift in scale and visibility has profound implicit implications. Not only does it change the stakes of self-disclosure.

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but also raises questions as to a potential shift in the motivations behind this behavior.

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So when it comes to the self-dis, digital self-disclosures of women, social media platforms like Credit Twitter, Instagram Tik Tok are increasingly viewed by liberal feminist scholars and activists as sites where the evolution of feminist consciousness raising can be observed.

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So when I talk about feminist consciousness raising. I'm referring to a method of heightening women's awareness about the socio-political issues that affect them through a process of sharing and synthesizing personal experiences with the goal of instigating change at both the individual and societal levels, and perhaps conveniently, all the images throughout this presentation were generated using mid journey, which is an AI

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generative AI tool. So there you go

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for some. These digital platforms are seen to can constitute sort of a new field of feminist consciousness, raising one that moves far beyond the deliberate small group discussions that were popularized by a second wave feminists

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and into a form that is networked and digital by default, where women leverage the connective capabilities of social media for real time decentralized and widespread engagement on feminist issues.

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Of course, the me, too, movement is often drawn on to illustrate the consciousness-raising potential of network feminism. And there has been a wealth of really important scholarship on this topic which I won't go into today.

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But while many of these accounts do address the limitations associated with this form of activism, the role played by social media platforms in shaping the behaviors and motivating users to share intimate details about themselves and their lives is often overlooked.

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This is significant as network feminism is inherently and inseparably tied to the digital environment. And it's precisely this, the mediated nature of network feminism that requires critical scrutiny.

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So many of the emancipatory narratives. You know that frame social media as sites for feminist consciousness raising tend to draw in the theory of connective action which suggests that in the age of digital media the importance of collective identity for social change has been subsumed by the importance of personal frames around inclusive ideas.

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However, the social media platforms that

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facilitate these practices don't exist within a vacuum, nor are they unbiased spaces for uninhibited self-expression and open participation. Critical approaches to media and communications encourage us to view social media platforms as artifacts of a popular culture that are deeply ingrained in and influenced by the dynamics of the systems within which they are produced.

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In this way social media platforms can be understood as constituting fields of practice that are subject to reinstate and concretize the neoliberal rationality that continues to dominate our political social and economic lives.

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The presence of these pervasive currents of power, both within and throughout these platforms.

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gives rise to what I suggest constitutes a neoliberal digital culture. And this is specifically marked by an intensified individualism. The commodification of personal interactions, the normalization of self-exploitation and the supremacy of the attention economy

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as network feminist practice is entirely mediated through and dependent on these platforms.

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The characteristics of the near neoliberal digital culture play a central role in shaping the behaviors and practices of users.

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And this in turn has complicated the ways that we're exposed to understand and interact with feminist thought and practice. And it's also under these conditions that anecdotal self-disclosure has been valorised as a legitimate form of political participation.

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So really quickly. The motivation for this paper came from the qualitative thematic analysis of 15 top posts made to the community throughout 2020, and also around 2,000 of the comments that were associated with each of them.

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and it was through this process that patterns of anecdotal self-disclosure were identified and really started to emerge as a key participatory mechanism within the community.

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These moments of self-disclosure often be imbued with a high degree of emotion. routinely attracted considerable approval and support from within the community, and this was reflected in the quantity of up votes and associated comments

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while post dealing with serious issues, such as sexual assault or harassment, did tend to generate a really high number of self-disclosures from other users in response.

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even relatively mundane content. Like, for example, one of the posts I analyzed was a woman, a woman's account of renovating her shower. This also sparked a flood of personal responses and the sharing of experiences from other users.

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while many theories of self-disclosure suggest that the practice is driven primarily by the desire to foster relationships.

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An alternative, or perhaps supplemental desire. A supplemental explanation can be found by looking to the motivations and the architectures of the social media platforms themselves.

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So, as we all know for these platforms, profits are primarily derived from the commodification of user interactions. The more users interact with the platform specific instruments of engagement, such as posting, liking, sharing, commenting, retweeting, whatever it is. The more data they generate.

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This data is then used to improve and refine targeted advertising efforts, and that is a very brief and simplified overview of how that all works. But I'm sure we're all aware of, you know the intricacies there.

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so on. Reddit users have the ability to upload or download posts and comments. This increases or decreases the content score, and by extension is vis visibility on the platform.

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This results in users being corralled into patterns of behavior and thought that are most likely to generate engagement, and thus revenue for the platforms

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to draw on Bordeaux. Here what ensues is a process of in situ socialization that molds the habitus which, in the context of social media, informs our participatory intuition, shaping our instincts on what to share, how to phrase it, when to post

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things like that.

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When users observe that certain types of content consistently garner high volumes of up votes or comments. They prompted to emulate these content styles in their own posts, in hopes of gaining similar levels of community validation.

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The high amount of inner community approval. That these posts attract cultivates a pattern of reinforcement where, in self-disclosure elicits positive engagement, and this engagement in turn validates and fortifies the practice within the users, habitats.

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This high level of approval also signals the extent to which certain perspectives and practices are privileged or valued by the users of 2 X chromosomes. The approval generated through sharing it. Personal experiences in this way

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can be seen as a form of online social currency or capital that functions as a numeric representation of social acceptance.

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In this way the practice of self-disclosure turns personal experience into a commodity to be traded.

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inadvertently encouraging and normalizing a form of self-exploitation where users willingly expose aspects of their personal lives, sometimes very intimate details to a vast online audience

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under a neoliberal culture. The commodification of the personal can be interpreted as a form of unpaid emotional labor, as users are, expect to extract package and present their emotional or personal experiences in ways that are likely to generate engagement from the broader community.

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Interestingly, comments replying directly to posts, detailing personal anecdotes, often appeared to use this original content as sort of a springboard for their own confessional, and this resulted in kind of cyclical patterns of self-disclosure.

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For the most part these personal experiences or anecdotes did little to critically deconstruct the prevailing mechanisms of power and authority as they exist within agendered society.

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and instead, many of these contributions worked to re-center the individual experience. Even in the face of inherently collective issues.

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Consciousness-raising efforts of the second wave were largely deliberate and political acts where personal experiences were shared as a mechanism to understand women's oppression, and so inform a critique of the status quo of the time

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through highlighting the structures of domination and oppression that were naturalized as a result of the patriarchal Organization society.

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digital self-disclosure, as it occurs within the 2 X chromosomes. Community lacks. What I would suggest is an integral element of feminist consciousness raising, and that is this political intent.

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While the act of sharing personal experiences may very well provide a whole range of benefits and opportunities to the users of 2 X chromosomes

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by failing to leverage these personal stories as part of sort of broader social critiques or conversations. This really ultimately limits the consciousness raising potential of these narratives.

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What's more, such practices of self-disclosure, supplemented as they are by these platform affordances and reward systems

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tend to reinforce the internalization of an individualistic feminist consciousness.

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So these observations really echo the work of feminist media scholars, such as Rosalind Gill's notion of a post feminist sensibility or Catherine Rottenberg's conceptualization of neoliberal feminism.

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wherein feminist practice becomes imbued with the logics and values of neoliberal rationality.

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Ultimately this highlights the complex and often contradictory nature of network feminism. In the context of a highly corporatized and commodified digital environment.

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this raises the question as to whether or not network feminism can effectively overcome the individualistic and exploitative orientation of neoliberal digital culture and the social media platforms that embody it to become a potent tool for collective action.

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While I definitely don't have the answer to that question, I do believe it's imperative that we work to acknowledge and better understand the limitations of this form of feminist activism.

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While social media platforms can facilitate feminist discussion, debate, and community, they can also unintentionally reinforce and normalize oppressive or exploitative ideologies.

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These early findings highlight, a need for feminist scholars and activists alike to explore novel ways, to mitigate the impact of the platform economy on feminist politics whilst encouraging deliberate engagement with structural critiques to maintain the collective and so political spirit of feminism within the digital field.

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And that's all for me. Thank you.

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Wow! Fascinating. Thank you so much. Amy mao Our next speakers are my tribe Malik and Archana Pottnik

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Did they actually arrive here? Yes, wonderful! Wonderful! All our speakers. did arrive here. Towards the end. We will have about 30 min for a common discussion. That's first pinned over the microphone to Maya Taiyi Mullik.

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Her paper is entitled Network Ecologies, Marginalized Citizens and Participatory Governments. Case of Smart City Ubaneschw in India.

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A very good morning, everybody. My name is Moitre Malik and I am from the Indian Institute of Technology, Karakbur, India, and I'll be talking about our paper networked ecologies, marginalized citizens and participatory governance case of puffnish for a smart city. India, and the paper is also Co. Authored by my supervisor, Doctor Otchen uppnike.

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So we start with the overview of the discussion and

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coming into the basic introduction. The smart city's network ecologies need an engaged citizenry for a sustainable smart city.

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However, smart cities are techno-centric nature that reflects unequal citizen participation, especially from the marginalized lens.

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In this case we consider Indian smart cities and a smart city's mission, which also claims to be citizen-centric in its policies, yet they show similar forms of unequal participation in its opportunities.

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Yet we find that there are certain particular traces of participation of the marginalized sections within the Indian smart city governance as bottom-up collaborations at the local scale.

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Hence from this we derive the research gap, where we find that there is some scant research, assessing the marginalized citizens engagement in smart city governance within the Indian smart cities.

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To address this research gap, we look into the objective where we try to examine how the marginalized sections negotiate within their immediate urban entities within networked ecologies of smart cities and engage with governance.

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Looking into the study area. We focus our study on a particular project called The Smart, socially Smart Proof-natural project of Smart City, Boof, Nashville, India.

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To give a basic local description. The smart city govnisher is found in the Eastern State of Horiza in India, and the particular program that we talk about has a social framework, social justice framework, focusing on the citizens as well as youth within the marginalized community, because of which this particular project has been selected.

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Under the theoretical framework, we look into the. And as a theoretical framework, we

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in it.

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Yeah, we look into the ideas of link and deals social capital and agency

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initially to start out with the idea of social capital. Social capital looks into the norms and networks that propels social action with relation to communities and particular communities and groups within them, and between them.

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in addition to that, there are particular types of social capital that the authors talk about. These include bonding, social capital, bridging, social capital linkage and vertical social capital.

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Additionally, the authors talk about different levels of social agency that we consider from 2 levels.

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Firstly, we consider the author's idea of individual agency, where its encompasses will or intent the reasons to act as well as access to networks, and from this we subtract the barriers at the individual level, which might be absence of the reasons to add or access to networks, or even a particular will or intent at the individual level.

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Secondly, we look into the community agency which talks about, which encompasses basic ideas of capacity at the community level, a reason to act social capital. And from this, again, we need to subtract the barriers of the community level, where we find that there there is either a lack of leadership, lack of capacity, or particular reasons to act or absence of social capital.

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So in this case, when there is and The presence of agency, what happens is there is the presence of social action, and that creates social change within a particular community, and options of social agency causes an absence of social action. Action, and this absence causes an absence again, of social change within the community. So with the help of this particular theoretical framework, we'll look into our analysis.

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The method that we follow is an exploratory, qualitative, primary research which is structured and with some structured and semi-structured in-depth interviews and focus group discussions. This was done in the month of March 2020. And we have used the technique of snowball sampling

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the participants that we have selected focuses on this particular project of the socially smart Boom Meshwa Project or the Ssb. Project, and the stakeholders have been considered which includes the peer leaders within this particular group of Within this particular project the general slum dwellers within them, as well as the implementing partner or the Hamada Butchman Trust, which is an Ngo which helps the smart city's mission program. That is, the Ssb within its implementation.

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We use thematic content analysis as well as Qd, A minor light software for the process of analyzing the data.

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So the particular analysis will be so understood in 4 sections which encompasses developing agency networks and participation through capacity building social network and improving the quality of life of the marginalized community. We look into the agency-driven outcomes and the barriers to community participation and agency building.

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So we start out with the first section where we talk about how the agency is being built. So, firstly, we find that the capacity of building agencies is being done with the help of the implementing stakeholders who create networks among the youth and usher the presence of agency among them.

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We also find that once the peer leaders are trained and they grow their individual agencies. Here we find the turn in turn. They themselves help the community by translating and collectivizing their common issues, and

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in addition to that, the social actions that take place. The awareness that is being created occurs through certain certain certain programs within the particular Ssb implementation action which includes awareness, creation, charter of demands, community meetings and mappings. Within these communities COVID-19 activities, module meetings, gender audit as well as for the Peer leader training among the community.

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So this we find the presence of bonding social capital and bridging social capital where the The former talks about bonding and creation of trust within the community while bridging social capital shows how bonded communities extend to get resources to support their own community and meet their needs.

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Hence we find that agency has been built through the expanded networks, and social capital is also being expanded, and work is done to meet the needs of the community to usher in social change.

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Secondly, we look into the element of how social changes occurring, and within this we find through awareness, creation that is brought by the peer leaders. Such social change takes place. Now, once these particular peer leaders become aware of the common problems, they also support their own community through particular actions.

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These actions include the awareness, creation through important social issues, like education, problems of drug abuse, COVID-19 prevention as well as slum improvement action.

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These also helped these peer leaders were also helped by the Hbt. Implementing partners and Day, together with the peer leaders, and brought in to raise the awareness. This reduced the dropout rates. These made children aware of government sponsor schemes for higher education and reduce the drug and substance abuse.

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There were also further diy activities like using smartphones to tag administrators regarding particular infrastructure problems when the Administration could not solve the issues, and hence people themselves are solving their problems.

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Hence we witnessed community agencies, helped expand networks within the marginalized groups and authorities, which also expanded to social capital through the social action taking place.

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This worked towards improving also their quality of life.

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In addition to that, we also find

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that there are different outcomes of the agency formation that has taken place. Firstly, the collective action caused infrastructural upgrades. Such collective action took place through community meetings and mappings, the formation of mental maps through gender audits, and the charter of demand for missions.

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These were directly communicated to the Emilies or the corporators by the slum, you themselves, who are the authorities at the government level. And further, we find that The authorities.

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when their actions were Tadi. There were other such diy activities that took place that helped the communities, such as creating community cleanup zones clean up in the littered zones, creation of barriers in the zones where there were dangerous rows, or even constructing dummy cameras to restrict open defecation. In certain cases.

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In addition to that.

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we've also find here that there was linkage as well as vertical social capital established within the civic community, which expands the contacts with the poorer contacts with the power authorities to get rid of the problems and get their needs meant

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further agency-driven outcomes encompass the empowerment of women and children and their personal development.

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Such forms of personal development. comes from the fact that the empowerment was created through a creation of self-defense programs, creation of different job prospect creations as well as personal development programs, where each of the members of the community were learnt to how to express themselves and communicate with the par authorities themselves.

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In addition to that, we find that with implementation of social changes have been taking place, social action through these processes were also helping the community

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so oddly, we also find that other outcomes encompasses the expansion of the perceptions of the marginalized on their positions with with respect to the smart city, and how we consider themselves, while some consider the smart city has done, has done little for their growth. Others view the individual and social growth through personal development and awareness as form of smart development within a smart city.

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Hence, looking into the different barriers that we found, in addition to all the positive outcomes, we find that the growth of agency and social capital, as well as is also accompanied by these particular barriers that encompass a loss of momentum and a dissipated peer leadership due to the spatial and social cultural relocations of the peer leaders.

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With time we find the implementation labs also was present which caused a loss of social action. In addition to that, we also find poor maintenance of this particular program within the Ssb project, which also considers, which also looks into the fact that there is a long-term maintenance problem of a particular project to build up the agency and keep the capacity building process on.

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Hence, to come into the discussion and conclusion

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in essence. Our study shows how marginalized sections are, and their participation leads to the empowerment of the particular empowerment of these sections.

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Institutional agencies, mobilized peer leadership through capacity building.

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Further, this in turn showed how they establish how to establish bridging and burning social capital, expanding networks, and between and within communities as well as with institutional authorities.

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Such social capital and collective action are formed by the social agency, formation, and hence reflect social change as discussed by Liningdale.

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Additionally, the study also extends the idea of Aria's democratic ecologies of commons-driven gap. Collaborative covenants, exemplifying the commoning outputs such as common goods systems and practices as put forward by the land, 2,019, which can help the marginalized connect with top down management and yet create bottom-up self-help through Diy citizenship.

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however, the findings, highlight certain challenges, and maintaining the commoning process. And in this context we propose future studies to reflect on similar links between maintaining the commons-driven governance processes and sets and systems and network technologies to shed light on more inclusive engaged and democratic, smart city network societies.

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That's all. Thank you. Very much

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fascinating. thank you so much, Maitrey. pat Nike. Our last, but not least, our final speaker will be Vinai Brandon, from the Delhi School of Economics, University of Delhi, in India, and he will talk to us from India online. with a paper entitled The World According to Kopdo, Debugging monetary trust for a digital society

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Vinay Brandon: ready to go. V. And I, Brendan, from Delhi. Many thanks, Marcus, for that. A nice introduction. And let just get started because I have a lot to cover, and I have a tendency to overshoot time. Set my time up so in this paper. I mean while you digest some of these codes. I'm going to be making 3 main claims.

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Vinay Brandon: The first is that the founding propositions of cryptocurrencies or crypto as a cybernetic system.

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Vinay Brandon: We're all what political

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Vinay Brandon: they they they had political elements in them, with both from the libertarian side as well as the an office side.

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Vinay Brandon: And then these later became indexed, and then register within incompatible money. So crypto

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Vinay Brandon: in in. It's a very interesting

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Vinay Brandon: unfolding project, because, just like the mail's idea of money, it. It kind of and massages this dream that a perfect money

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Vinay Brandon: will create a perfect society. And we all know

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Vinay Brandon: from email's work that it is not really so, and I'll show you how, during the course of this presentation, the second claim that I will make is that

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Vinay Brandon: again, we tend to think of crypto by comparing it with common sensical views of with with with sovereign currencies, which are backed by solid stable bonds, and a a a kind of concatenated set of legal contracts.

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Vinay Brandon: I mean, this is somewhat evolved in the regulatory balance, because we've started talking about crypto as an asset or a disruptor in light of its.

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Vinay Brandon: It's pluralization. It's a tremendous design, fiction, and speciation. But

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Vinay Brandon: what I'd like to see is that all of this is not necessarily again related to a design for you. It is related to contradictions within money itself. and crypto

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Vinay Brandon:  while it may feel the conceptual test of moneyiness

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Vinay Brandon: in in terms of the new chartless consensus that money being a political claim on the social product requiring centralized authority, crypto still manage to kind of augment its limitations around the exchange function around the fact that it's failed as a medium of exchange.

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Vinay Brandon: And it's open entirely new worlds and possibilities to us which are in full link within this project of digital society. So that's my second K, and the third claim would be that again, this diffusion of of crypto and blockchain

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Vinay Brandon: both its promises and perils need to be viewed in a wider social context, require a theoretical resolution as well as empirical work, to really characterize what is going on in this world? Is it embedding purely within capitalism? Is it also trying to resist it like the initial design ideologies? So so what's happening here. So I will offer a conceptual framework to tie all of this together at the end. Let's begin.

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Vinay Brandon: So if money is a is a social technology then crypto can be catalyzed as a cultural micro technology. And it's rule is to really question, make us question, what makes money a social medium? It's an inveterate boundary, cross it. It kind of Forbes up this idea of public and private material symbol, network and community. but it also does this

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Vinay Brandon: through its social life in terms of the spaces that contested spaces it creates around its usage as well as design, fiction, and these again crisscross political boundaries, ideological motivation, connectivity structures, relational economies and digital public. So so, so hold on to that idea.

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Vinay Brandon: Where does all of this come from? My argument is, I mean looking at for culture and genealogy and the idea of contingent histories that whatever is happening to crypto today

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Vinay Brandon: and still chase can be traced back to the cipher punk movements and the crypto Anarchist movements, and the the internal contradictions of claims design claims which were made in light of the Utopian project of designing for digital cash.

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Vinay Brandon: And this really, takes us to this idea of

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Vinay Brandon: how do we program for trust? Like, how do we radically, this intermediate trust

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Vinay Brandon: in terms of monetary exchange. So how do we enable

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Vinay Brandon: purely peer-to-peer digital property transfers while maintaining online privacy.

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Vinay Brandon: disintermediating the rule of states

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Vinay Brandon: banks and digital payment infrastructure. So all kinds of financial intermediaries. That was the design Utopia, which brought together these communities together.

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Vinay Brandon: So again, I want you to think of crypto as a singularity in the problem of operationalizing digital cache. And it comes from a very specific computational problem in the history of cryptography. I won't go into it in in in detail. But it's called the Byzantine general problem, and it's really to do with just how do you get anonymous transactors who don't? Who can spend a digital token

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Vinay Brandon: without other people knowing it on the online space. How do you ensure that doesn't happen? How do you prevent counter fighting

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Vinay Brandon: or double spending of digital tokens while preserving online privacy. That's the design problem. And it's hard that for digital cash. Now, it's so it just so happened that

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Vinay Brandon: the the spaces, the online spaces, and the and the the the social space of this contested design

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Vinay Brandon: was a was was trying to endow a an intrinsic value to the kind of computational work and the validation work which we now know as mining. how to endow an intrinsic value to this computational work. In other words.

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Vinay Brandon: how do you get? How do you design a digital token which privileges, cryptographic labor. scarce computational resources.

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Vinay Brandon: and also creates a system of rewards, a property, a a collectable or trophy, which can then be transferred as a property right itself to do to to enable transfers of in in the sense of money, quote UN good money, and it's for textbook functions that the phones. But the goal was to have. This is to token act like both the store of value and medium of exchange. And that's essentially the contradiction which

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Vinay Brandon: come with which is at the heart of money itself, between its commodity theories and predatory theories. It's social organization. Is it a product of the market that it kind of replays that tension the quest for this Utopian object.

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Vinay Brandon: So just read this phone.

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Vinay Brandon: And I'd like to just very quickly give a snapshot review of this, the problems of comparing Bitcoin, the political archetype of crypto Within. These, schematically, you know, could social conventions of accounting and delegated institution trust the kind of impersonal trust which makes our legal, tender money

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Vinay Brandon: this kind of a passing current. No, the money is designed. It's so sophisticated itself. But to to to present to you very quickly the conceptual consensus around various theories.

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Vinay Brandon: Modern money should be thought of as a promissory relation, as credit by fiat

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Vinay Brandon: as this political claim on the social product, where all our balance sheets are mutualized because of the State's political claim rights to our texts.

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Vinay Brandon: And I I mean, I won't go into this in details fairly abstract argument, but we need to create a nominal ontology

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Vinay Brandon: of money that is, Institute and Nominalists money of account to be able to

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Vinay Brandon: resolve the real problem of money itself, as you can see in this phone.

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Vinay Brandon: It's written by A. A. A. A Bitcoin, a fictionado called Cortex, cited in Morris, famous paper from 2,013. But this idea that crypto does not

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Vinay Brandon: in in, in trying to design against trust or program away the problem of trusted intermediaries. All it does is rely on personal trust. That's its failure as money when you, when you compare the new chartless critique of it, and I'd like to tell, I'd like to kind of hint that there's an infrastructural element to how modern money is created in crypto

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Vinay Brandon: is at at. It's hard as a cybernetic system through blockchain, disrupting that very seriously, because I mean it. It just goes to show why states are taking the idea of central bank digital currency seriously utilizing the same technology which is open source and making it into a digital public good, a digital less public. So I'll come back to this tension in here.

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Vinay Brandon: moving to the contradiction within money views of Bitcoin. And this is the heart of my paper

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Vinay Brandon: that you have to. look at

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Vinay Brandon: how this problem of designing digital cash was done normally through the blockchain decentralized consensus protocol. You have to understand that there's a tension between the commodity you and credit for. The the design itself is not trivial, and I won't go into how this the signing of these digital act you know, records takes place to proof of work. But it's it's a very.

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Vinay Brandon: it's it gets materialized as value through a common infrastructure, which is the payments you make to in terms of your electricity bills. In order to do the validation on this decentralized open ledger.

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Vinay Brandon: and it it can involve anybody as long as it is a permissionless blockchain, because it's built atop the Tca Tcp IP protocol of the Internet. So it's like a mouse and gift starts a political gift cycle of mutual obligations, and hence creates credit review around this open source, decent life structure. So it's not purely commodity.

400
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Vinay Brandon: but when we understand it as money.

401
01:26:56.990 --> 01:26:58.640
Vinay Brandon: it is mostly commodity.

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Vinay Brandon: And you know, I I that's a small diagram on proof of work, and how it kind of brings together a consensus protocol amongst synonymous actors.

403
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Vinay Brandon: But let me move on to the heart of my paper, which is the social imaginary of Bitcoin, and the tensions that it

404
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Vinay Brandon: and these are 2 conceptual terms which I'm borrowing from. Again Bill Mara and his team and and Lana's what has worked on infrastructure mutualism. But it's really the tension between commodity and credit reviews that play out through these these distinct social spaces. And I want you to

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Vinay Brandon: take away this idea that these are not just analytical concepts. These are social spaces, both digital metalism, the community of gold bugs, people transacting trading and crypto intraday through centralized exchanges. That that's a social space

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Vinay Brandon: in its own right. And so is the is the kind of more solidarityist communication space of this you know, performing infrastructure of care work to create a semi commons within the Internet and and enable forms of participatory software cooperativism in order to

407
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Vinay Brandon: create projects which

408
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Vinay Brandon: allow for this decentralization to have some value to society as money, but as value more generally. So the idea of blockchain dreams.

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01:28:20.810 --> 01:28:37.880
Vinay Brandon: there's a lot of boundary work within both these concepts. And here's a table which will clarify everything, and these are the comparisons I want you to take, because these are the countervailing tendencies, or the or the basic contradictions in crypto which

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01:28:38.240 --> 01:28:41.489
Vinay Brandon: make for a very interesting outcome.

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01:28:41.740 --> 01:28:54.470
Vinay Brandon: which I'm calling the 7 sense of Bitcoin. So the the fundamental differences between these 2 spaces are that the tension between price and payment, commodity and credit how markets are organized, or obligations need

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01:28:54.800 --> 01:29:14.490
Vinay Brandon: digital metalism. Of course, hawks to the idea of sound commodity. Money can be an outside, I said. We can even in theory, go back to the cool standard in a digital sense. if we if we use the the design of crypto within sovereign backed currencies. Of course that idea is already kind of lost its premise because of how

413
01:29:14.550 --> 01:29:19.550
Vinay Brandon: you know, fiscal deficits are managed. And again, because money is a promissory

414
01:29:19.630 --> 01:29:26.249
Vinay Brandon: form of credit. It's it's a mutualized application which binds a political connectivity connectivity to get

415
01:29:26.670 --> 01:29:35.339
Vinay Brandon: But a privacy character again emerges through this open source infrastructure as long as it's open source as long as centralized third parties don't take it up.

416
01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:44.419
Vinay Brandon: And so there's a tension between the idea of perfect or programmable money in the medalist view, and the and this communitarian infrastructure, ideal and mutualism.

417
01:29:44.650 --> 01:29:52.190
Vinay Brandon: Again, the idea of free Market Utopia versus digital commoning infrastructure, commenting, the the the enterprise level

418
01:29:52.480 --> 01:30:15.300
Vinay Brandon: is very, very different. How businesses emerge around these 2 spaces, so centralized exchanges. All these main exchanges see, like finance, or the or Ftx, which recently collapsed. But there's a lot of bad faith and bad money. So it's creating clearly. But that's the world of speculation which and this this metalist world is what economists mostly kind of bait and critique because of its, you know.

419
01:30:15.560 --> 01:30:19.539
Vinay Brandon: connect to financialization and your Liberals and capitalism.

420
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Vinay Brandon: But there's a cooperative is site. And this an enterprise system called blockchain as a software service which is emerging across the world to solve small governance problems, consensus problems. The idea of smart contracts, the idea of permission blockchains.

421
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Vinay Brandon: And we really really need to think of the digital world not being separate from the social in terms of

422
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Vinay Brandon: reconciling these 2 different money views. So on the one hand.

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01:30:45.750 --> 01:31:01.600
Vinay Brandon: a global deteratorialized world money emerges to through sec the sections of capitalism, circuits of finance and platform capitalism on the medallist side. And then there's this decentralized self in close money world of a single blockchain where.

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Vinay Brandon: you know, there's a unit of account. There's a nominal list unit of account, and crypto is the money which is tied to that unit of account within that blockchain plans so very limited idea of community cards.

425
01:31:14.790 --> 01:31:25.220
Vinay Brandon: What's most important and the main takeaway of my paper is that these design contradictions between metalism, digital mentalism, and infrastructure mutualism.

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Vinay Brandon: I have kind of created these

427
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Vinay Brandon: to use the economist negative externality. So the 7 s. Of Bitcoin and these are really, to use a sociological term, how it's become culturally embedded within capitalism, as well as part of

428
01:31:40.570 --> 01:31:43.050
Vinay Brandon: this idea of colonizing the future.

429
01:31:43.820 --> 01:32:00.930
Vinay Brandon: constantly creating models of future claims around its design principles. And you'll see this a lot in the crypto community, as you may have encountered online. This idea of hoodling the idea of don't spread Fud. Don't spread fear, uncertainty, doubt. It all comes from this belief.

430
01:32:01.200 --> 01:32:04.139
Vinay Brandon: But this belief has a strong

431
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Vinay Brandon: economic consequence, economic sociological consequence in terms of assetization, this instability of value the pluralization there more than 7,200 crypto currency is traded online third party mediation. Again, sociality is key, and that's the great paradox of designing for non trust that you know wherever Bitcoin succeeds it's money it feels as ideology and vice versa. Then there's, of course.

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Vinay Brandon: Oligopolistic structures, pooled mining, etc. platformization which I touched upon to exchanges which are really banks and then centralization with states thinking of taking up this open source technology to do some public good.

433
01:32:45.670 --> 01:33:04.869
Vinay Brandon: And this actually creates the 9 lines of crypto. Because if you look at computational cultures and I have to kind of, I'm running out of time here. But these 2 elements, this idea of positive disruption at an industrial scale, the idea of Ir. 4, etc., and the creation of recursive publics around. constantly upgrading our software.

434
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Vinay Brandon: It's taken us. This journey has taken us from Crypto, being a mouse and gift

435
01:33:10.190 --> 01:33:21.459
Vinay Brandon: to the Internet at large, creating a an an application of on collective digital life to a technology of speculation getting windowed within the idea of verification and

436
01:33:21.490 --> 01:33:45.139
Vinay Brandon: making digital data intrinsically valuable. And here is my final kind of claim. I promise to you, and I'm I know I've exceeded 15 min, but I'll just summarize this in a in a minute. I promise to you that we are going to head towards a conceptual reconceptualization of crypto which allows us to speak of the digital and social at at the same plane

437
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Vinay Brandon: and not partition these worlds. And I'm I'm using an idea from religious studies and Sts, called the cosmograph.

438
01:33:52.310 --> 01:34:15.099
Vinay Brandon: It's I mean, you can think of the Jewish tabernacle as a as a cost for you. You can think of Marxian dialectics as a cosmic plan. So it's really a system of Utopian practice that that concretizes, that produces concrete practices both at the technical level, but also at cosmology, customer cosmological level stories, fiction fantasies, hopes, all of those things coming together.

439
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Vinay Brandon: And what I'm say, what I'm really trying to say by calling crypto cosmogram is that it enables certain kinds of disruptive digital futures. And I'm going to leave you with these 3 questions. And these 3 questions are really embank on this idea

440
01:34:30.680 --> 01:34:34.320
Vinay Brandon: that these other central planning Utopias, the ideas of

441
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Vinay Brandon: digital decentralization taken to scale, whether it's algorithmic accounting or cashless societies, the part of a vision of automating the future

442
01:34:43.380 --> 01:34:52.069
Vinay Brandon: and in light of that vision? There are these 3 questions on your screen when it's crypto, a distinct form of capitalism. Is it a cause or a symptom?

443
01:34:52.080 --> 01:35:01.660
Vinay Brandon: What kind of digital double movement is going on? And how does it implicate the quest for the Internet Commons? What is your idea of the Internet? Is it

444
01:35:01.810 --> 01:35:05.629
Vinay Brandon: that that phone, that surveillance tool which

445
01:35:05.910 --> 01:35:15.189
Vinay Brandon: makes you part of networks and circuits without your consent circuits of capital? Or is it this kind of resistance space.

446
01:35:15.510 --> 01:35:28.500
Vinay Brandon: And that's where I end with this final question, which is kind of and animating my Ph. D. Even empirically. Under what conditions does blockchain become a public interest technology. Thank you so much.

447
01:35:32.710 --> 01:35:57.189
Well, fascinating. When I, Brandon, thank you so much. please. All the presenters in the room come up to the front. please take a seat we have about 15 and a half minutes for a common discussion. those in our online audience, feel free to type your questions into the chat.

448
01:35:57.190 --> 01:36:07.720
raise your hand with a signal. we can also try to get you. the video function activated so that you can also address us.

449
01:36:08.730 --> 01:36:11.740
All right. I already see. who was first.

450
01:36:11.830 --> 01:36:16.839
1. 2 questions. Yeah. please

451
01:36:16.910 --> 01:36:30.999
to the microphone, because only at a microphone they will be also hearing you at the online audience around the world. We have people in Paris, in India in that sort of

452
01:36:32.250 --> 01:36:35.899
thank you, all of you. I want a right person goes in with some.

453
01:36:36.080 --> 01:36:46.770
I wondered what a degree it's about. How different government imagine whether citizens are governable, they have the potential to be governable.

454
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The ethical question of whether we should

455
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it exploit the possibility of bypassing consciousness which digital technology allow us to use.

456
01:37:03.520 --> 01:37:28.799
They are due to govern in a way that it still conveyed to human consciousness and subjectivity. And this sense I. I may assume that out of that other governance may share the feeling that it might be more efficient, while at the same time refuse to do it for a moral ground for a see. This something they cannot publicly justify, etc.

457
01:37:29.750 --> 01:37:32.400
Thank you so much.

458
01:37:32.900 --> 01:37:37.219
Maybe we can collect one more question that was already

459
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in preparation, and then we turn over to our presenters, and then they can. pick whatever question they want to. answer, and whoever wants to answer, please go ahead.

460
01:37:50.140 --> 01:38:10.129
The question is a look for a professor. All right. So I guess that's a good question to connect. I guess. I was wondering about the concept of deactivating power. Given that a lot of citizens that actually seek the protection of a State, they want state to intervene to enforce these measures in another context. So they they are not like

461
01:38:10.310 --> 01:38:18.399
passive and didn't make choices like make choices to. And I want the State to intervene right so. And also

462
01:38:18.450 --> 01:38:30.040
there's deep division within the citizens. There are anti-vaxers. There are people who strongly support the best of the scenes, right? So I guess I was wondering whether in this lab the State

463
01:38:30.180 --> 01:38:43.440
impose a monolithic vision of their citizens on a society or the States selects such a visions within the citizens, and they sign with certain factions of citizens.

464
01:38:43.520 --> 01:38:45.880
and it's not like to just impose a vision

465
01:38:50.940 --> 01:39:17.860
and thank you so much. Just 3 questions rather than once. I will. I will answer only the first one to give time to others as well, which is. And then we refer to your question, which is the deactivation, and whether we can really think about it, giving the fact that at least some of the population did not at least actively oppose it. And what is interesting is that at some point the Ministry of Health in Israel, and it was in other countries as well did

466
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develop an app that was on a voluntary basis, and that completely did not fly around 100,000 Israelis downloaded that. And then half of them basically

467
01:39:32.490 --> 01:39:55.009
got read of it. So the deactivation here is quite interesting, because if you, I ask people to actively submit their information to the government, it turns out that they don't do it. So, at least at that level. I suggest that the activation is actually something that is imposed for me, both other than in some way required to ask from below

468
01:39:55.190 --> 01:40:22.919
in regard to the ethical dimension, and I will just say that the issue of resistance is definitely important. It can take kind of like either in power or dis in power this deactivation. But I won't say more than that we got in the ethical question. It's it's it's a really good one, and I'm I'm not sure that I thought too empirically about it. That is where the Government conceded it and ruled it out, or did not even imagine.

469
01:40:23.010 --> 01:40:30.549
My first instinct is to think that it's actually a that you require a story call

470
01:40:30.690 --> 01:40:43.699
understanding of the political economy of each one of those countries, because one of the things that Israel had, which in this case the Uk and and Sweden did not have was already the data.

471
01:40:43.740 --> 01:40:48.110
So I think that maybe the ethical dimension becomes

472
01:40:48.290 --> 01:41:07.429
redundant once you already have the You. You already had the ethical decision ahead of time to collect the data. So once you collect the data. One of the things that happened and the Israeli context, it's really important. the data is generally used against Palestinians. Right? I mean, this is what

473
01:41:07.430 --> 01:41:34.380
that is about. the crisis that was triggered by COVID-19 in some way create the legitimacy to overcome the ethical dimension of our we're doing it against the Jews as well. And the answer is, we're going back to your question in some ways, giving that they've but it can, saves lives. Then we should be able to do it. So maybe the ethical rather than thinking about it as a one time ethical decision. We have to think

474
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about it historically and identify the moments in which someone, something.

475
01:41:39.870 --> 01:41:46.440
a different consideration from the second dimensions, allowing us to get to where we are today. But thank you for these 2 questions.

476
01:41:49.840 --> 01:41:53.689
we 9, Brandon. And then you.

477
01:41:54.800 --> 01:42:14.759
Vinay Brandon: you wanted to say something. Yeah, I had a question to the panel, but I can raise it later, in case there's another question you want to take from the audience, go ahead. Why, while someone is walking towards the microphone. So I have a question to nit son first, and it's one on bio politics. And

478
01:42:14.760 --> 01:42:29.540
Vinay Brandon: you know, using that as a conceptual peg, and maybe for the remaining part of a presentation which I couldn't really, which we couldn't hear. you know, this idea of under the skin surveillance, and how how useful is

479
01:42:30.140 --> 01:42:54.889
Vinay Brandon: the conception of bio-politics and digital politics techno politics inflated a conflated together. The second question I want to ask, which is really more like a comment to it, son, is this is this wonderful book on tight and loose cultures. It's, of course, a form of psychological determinism. It's by Michelle Gell Flan. She's at the University of John Hopkins. But this cross country comparison which I was really interested

480
01:42:55.060 --> 01:43:09.150
Vinay Brandon: in in you exploring, do you think the large data sets and this kind of psychological work around tight. And those cultures can explain some of the variance that you're talking about.

481
01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:14.950
Vinay Brandon: So that's to me, son. And then shall I? Shall I raise another question or wait for my term?

482
01:43:15.320 --> 01:43:17.200
Ok, very quick, then.

483
01:43:17.420 --> 01:43:31.499
Vinay Brandon: Okay, but okay, this one is to this one is a cross talk between Dr. King and Dr. Mal, and it's really to do with comparing frames of self across these 2 different

484
01:43:31.510 --> 01:43:47.679
Vinay Brandon: digital worlds that we've seen, and how important would class labor be to say, the network community the feminist community. Which Miss Mound brought out. And, conversely, how? How is gender important to

485
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Vinay Brandon: Vloggers?

486
01:43:49.950 --> 01:43:59.990
Thank you. And let's collect one more question by James Santos from the Pontifical Catholic University of Rio Branch, in New Zealand, in Brazil, East.

487
01:44:00.890 --> 01:44:13.639
Thank you for the presentation. My question is for Glen. I do work with AI Attics in Brazil, in a research project.

488
01:44:13.820 --> 01:44:20.420
So my my question. It's particularly with the hybrid nature that you

489
01:44:20.450 --> 01:44:23.169
there's the first one, and

490
01:44:24.130 --> 01:44:48.089
most commonly, usually, some studies have treated E either with skepticism or enthusiasm, the breakthroughs of AI. And that's kind of misleading. in my view. And our view, that is why that's because those are algorithms. And

491
01:44:48.260 --> 01:44:53.569
those are systems. Autonomous systems develop within a

492
01:44:53.620 --> 01:45:09.960
particular condition within a particular structure to gain something, to gain some data to gain. intel on the public. Data which is now become the new source of revenue for this

493
01:45:10.050 --> 01:45:16.189
what we call folks calls digital capitalism or platform capitalism.

494
01:45:16.240 --> 01:45:24.240
So isn't this hybrid nature some sort of actualization in this new form or this

495
01:45:24.860 --> 01:45:29.449
some sort of glimpse that we are seeing of digital capitalism? Isn't this

496
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a new form, or is it? What could this hybrid nature be? A play, and to help instantiate some resistance?

497
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So

498
01:45:41.700 --> 01:45:46.570
that's my question. I'm sorry for a way to work. Thank you. Whoever would like to go.

499
01:45:54.150 --> 01:46:24.009
thank you for a question. I would be very brief. Yes, to by politics. No, to tight and loosen culture. and I can say more. But I will not if I can take my time instead to ask questions. Is that okay? Great? I don't know if ting is here, but I was really interested in the hype, in in, in, in the way by which a project and Amy kind of like talk with each other. So I've questioned

500
01:46:24.010 --> 01:46:31.990
same questions for both of you. One is a little bit, maybe a question about how you do

501
01:46:32.130 --> 01:46:36.260
differentiate in

502
01:46:36.500 --> 01:46:37.460
in

503
01:46:37.750 --> 01:46:58.290
attention, that is, through approval and attention, that is, through being contrarian and controversial, and getting a lot of attention for saying the wrong thing rather than the right thing. Right? I mean. So research suggests, for example, that fake news spread around much faster than real news, partly because it's more, you know.

504
01:46:58.290 --> 01:47:10.939
controversial. So I was wondering if it is analytically interesting for you to think about that. And the other question is, you didn't talk at all almost about the content, and especially in the case of Amy. I was wondering if

505
01:47:11.120 --> 01:47:18.079
bringing up the content into the into the analysis could be interesting for for what you're trying to do, and finally.

506
01:47:18.400 --> 01:47:38.300
a question for you as well. I wonder if publications would allow you a comprehensive analysis of the network, giving the fact that a lot of the workers and the engineers and the scientists do not necessarily publish. And I was thinking, maybe link to, you know, could be good place to look at Netflix as well. Thank you.

507
01:47:43.010 --> 01:47:55.589
all right, thank you very much. Your questions, so I guess I'll address both of them at once. You might be having a bit of a woman with the microphone. So hopefully it holds

508
01:47:56.150 --> 01:48:10.260
So in terms of class in the 2 X chromosomes community. This was definitely something that came up in sort of my broader analysis of the data. One of the emergent themes was

509
01:48:10.740 --> 01:48:15.179
sort of intersectionality, and that was

510
01:48:15.280 --> 01:48:36.080
one of the massive discourses that really circulated within the community. But one of the sort of arms of intersectionality. I suppose that was missing was a consideration of class. It didn't really come up in in the data in terms of coming from the The perspectives of the participants

511
01:48:36.170 --> 01:48:51.789
themselves. but class also does play a role in who participates and how well they do in these communities. So obviously. the digital divide access to technology is going to sort of

512
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indicate people's ability to participate on Reddit, of course. But then there's also the social and cultural sort of inculcation that people get from being able to spend leisure time and self-improvement time in these digital spaces, which sort of suggests that for the most part a lot of the people who do participate in these communities are coming from sort of

513
01:49:14.680 --> 01:49:24.810
a better social economic position than others in terms of sort of contrary or controversial. Opinions?

514
01:49:25.049 --> 01:49:33.150
2 2 experiments especially. But reddit. This particularly is very

515
01:49:34.610 --> 01:49:37.920
what's the word I can use that isn't rude.

516
01:49:38.209 --> 01:49:47.170
it's self-replicating. So opinions that get expressed within these communities are going to be

517
01:49:47.290 --> 01:49:50.950
likely to be the ones that people want to hear

518
01:49:51.010 --> 01:49:55.110
up and down. It actually helps this happen, because.

519
01:49:55.260 --> 01:50:19.900
you know, a controversial opinion or something that isn't accepted in the community will get pushed all the way down to the bottom and eventually hidden in in the comment section. So you get downloaded to oblivion. Your content no longer has relevance. So this is in Reddit, particularly obviously different affordances are going to create different patterns of engagement, and are going to see different content, sort of spread in different ways, I think, in terms of fake news.

520
01:50:20.030 --> 01:50:31.440
fake news that would gain traction on into X chromosomes will be fake news that validates the world view of the participants. So I think this is where that kind of thing comes into it. yeah.

521
01:50:34.110 --> 01:50:57.449
Ting Tin Yuet: sure. Sure. It seems that we are running out of time. So we just quickly going back to will be next question following Amy's answers. So the role play by gender? in my research. Right? So, yeah. I mean, if you look at the literature on creative workers or

522
01:50:57.450 --> 01:51:07.800
Ting Tin Yuet: digital creative, or you know, whenever we talk about inequality, by far, we have literature on on gender instead of on other forms of any quality. And in my research.

523
01:51:07.800 --> 01:51:32.789
Ting Tin Yuet: we do see some variations between men and women. Since we are running out of time, I would just quickly give you a 2 examples. For example, when we talk about the middle of the class flaw is, we do see, a kind of a a family pressure. that is different. on, on, on man and women. So in the context of the relational context of the

524
01:51:32.790 --> 01:51:51.060
Ting Tin Yuet: you have more pressure to push the mail flockers to build their self entrepreneurship while you have the family actually encourage the female flockers. to return to home. If one day, if you fail, there's a kind of a seduction there.

525
01:51:51.060 --> 01:52:04.709
Ting Tin Yuet: If you. If things are not going well for you, then you can always come home among the middle class flock as female floggers. it's it's similar, but also different fraud. The for the lower class female flock is

526
01:52:04.830 --> 01:52:24.499
Ting Tin Yuet: These families, when they present the the, the work background. They they job careers of their daughters in front of their relative and friends. They actually tend to frame. these, these flock as as something else. Sometimes they they just mentioned that my daughter or sons are working in the it industry.

527
01:52:24.660 --> 01:52:53.920
Ting Tin Yuet: which is not exactly accurate, but this is how they they, they, they frame these things in in front of others, and for the female for a focus, they sometimes frame it as if it's a good way to promote themselves to be social networks for future marriage, and hopefully, Mary to to Maria. So. Yes, we we do see some kind of variation between men and women, and from my accounts, as as you can see, we do have a very strong

528
01:52:53.920 --> 01:53:01.149
Ting Tin Yuet: stereotypes not just derived from from gender, but also from the Chinese culture. And we have it in the content. Yeah.

529
01:53:01.460 --> 01:53:28.319
So thank you very much for the comment, thank you so much a ding. We are at the very end of our time. So we do have to wrap up. But let me really really thank all of the presenters for excellent papers. They will be published on accelerated schedule. We got some publication offer already coming in. So thank you all for coming, and also a particular thanks to our volunteer Benado Bay for excellent tech support

530
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that it really works so smoothly. Thank you all, and your debate will continue in the other parts of the session on digital future. Thank you. Bye, bye.