WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:00.399
All right.

2
00:00:01.510 --> 00:00:07.140
all right. I think we're gonna get started. Oh, I'm a little loud.

3
00:00:07.370 --> 00:00:12.540
thank you so much for coming to indebted subjectivities.

4
00:00:12.970 --> 00:00:15.170
And I just want to

5
00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:19.630
start by the acknowledgment of countries. I'll just

6
00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:23.529
let you all take a moment to read this statement.

7
00:01:04.300 --> 00:01:08.159
All right. We will start

8
00:01:08.180 --> 00:01:16.020
with the first presentation, which I don't have it now on the screen, but I think,

9
00:01:16.440 --> 00:01:38.860
is Davidson and Erickson. If you wanted to start by sharing your screen and then we have a a good amount of time for people, so you can do 20 min and then we'll kind of move on to the to the next person. So if you want to go ahead and start sharing your screen, share your sound and just make sure that all of that's working.

10
00:01:41.470 --> 00:01:42.710
Erik Eriksson: You see anything?

11
00:01:44.440 --> 00:01:45.470
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: Yes.

12
00:01:45.530 --> 00:01:46.899
M. Fatih Karakaya: yeah, we can see.

13
00:01:47.430 --> 00:01:50.780
Tobias Davidsson: Okay, that's good. Thanks.

14
00:01:51.480 --> 00:02:07.180
Tobias Davidsson: okay. that's good to know 20 min when we can talk slow. so Hello, everyone! Hello! Everyone in Melbourne my name is to be us. I'm sitting in Gothenburg, Sweden, where it's 2 30 in the night, and.

15
00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:09.880
Tobias Davidsson: Eric, would you like to present yourself?

16
00:02:10.350 --> 00:02:11.939
Erik Eriksson: Yeah. Can you hear me? As well?

17
00:02:13.550 --> 00:02:24.469
Erik Eriksson: Good. I'm Eric Jackson. My I I'm mostly in Sweden, so it's the same time as to be us in the middle of the night. And I mean, I learned in my office my university.

18
00:02:26.370 --> 00:02:27.510
Tobias Davidsson: Okay?

19
00:02:27.610 --> 00:02:36.670
Tobias Davidsson: So yeah, so we're gonna start the presentation and expression. This presentation draws upon

20
00:02:36.910 --> 00:02:46.030
Tobias Davidsson: preliminary results from an ongoing research project with the title in Depth Young Adults and the dimensions of guilt.

21
00:02:46.480 --> 00:02:52.980
Tobias Davidsson: In this project we conduct narrative interviews with 18 individuals in Sweden.

22
00:02:53.220 --> 00:03:01.500
Tobias Davidsson: who, by the start of the project, were between 18 and 25 years of age, and in a situation of over-indptedness.

23
00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:14.119
Tobias Davidsson: And what this entails in the frames of the project is that we interviewees had substantial and amounts of debt registered at the Swedish Enforcement authority.

24
00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:23.869
Tobias Davidsson: that is, a government agency in charge of debt collection for the means of, for example, seizures and or evictions.

25
00:03:24.449 --> 00:03:35.330
Tobias Davidsson: and in the project will follow. The Aken individuals during the span of 3 years, interviewing them annually and keeping casual contact in between.

26
00:03:36.179 --> 00:03:44.239
Tobias Davidsson: The main purpose of the project is to shed light on social of young adults over the left. In this.

27
00:03:44.710 --> 00:03:46.489
Tobias Davidsson: by focusing both

28
00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:48.459
social factors.

29
00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:52.700
Tobias Davidsson: enabling and driving young people's overindictedness.

30
00:03:52.730 --> 00:04:08.290
Tobias Davidsson: well as on how aspects of indebtedness impact the social lives of young people. Temporal dimensions constitute one among many social features of inducted life investigated in the project.

31
00:04:11.440 --> 00:04:18.280
Erik Eriksson: All right. first, some brief context and concepts here.

32
00:04:19.210 --> 00:04:36.559
Erik Eriksson: and first of all, I would like to say, yes. The time and depth are too deeply entangled concepts, the social theorists, the so has formulated that that is, in its essence the promise to repay something sometime in the future.

33
00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:43.939
Erik Eriksson: Thus every depth relation entails a complex rewriting of past, present, and future

34
00:04:45.310 --> 00:04:59.550
Erik Eriksson: in our project. Aspects of time become relevant also because we follow our participants over 3 years time. and during a period of of the life course where young people tend to adhere in the depth to

35
00:04:59.640 --> 00:05:04.709
Erik Eriksson: reception features. So what is this to that understood as adulthood?

36
00:05:05.090 --> 00:05:13.779
Erik Eriksson: In this we are particularly interested in how in-depthiness affects this transition period into adulthood.

37
00:05:13.850 --> 00:05:20.329
Erik Eriksson: and also the kind of live trajectories that over-inducted young subjects undertake over time.

38
00:05:22.840 --> 00:05:34.200
Erik Eriksson: and in terms of the concepts. In our investigation of the temporal dimensions of that we are especially influenced by Barbara Adams. Concept of timescapes

39
00:05:34.610 --> 00:05:46.699
Erik Eriksson: which we understand this more or less individual results of the various time rhythms and temporal power relations that an individual experience and is subjected to.

40
00:05:47.730 --> 00:05:59.640
Erik Eriksson: Additionally, we also draw on Sarah Sharma's series of power, Chronography, and Lisa Atkins research on how that produces what she calls speculative time

41
00:06:00.610 --> 00:06:01.670
Erik Eriksson: and

42
00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:14.110
Erik Eriksson: investigations of time and depth within social sciences of often focus a more abstract level, and not seldom the debt relations analyzed or located on a macro level.

43
00:06:14.530 --> 00:06:32.960
Erik Eriksson: But in this project the waiting to analyze how time is perceived by in that to junk subjects on a micro level. But of course, we also always have a a careful analytical understanding of the the subject's embeddedness in the broader societal structures and the credit markets.

44
00:06:34.510 --> 00:06:43.779
Erik Eriksson: And in this presentation we will outline the subjective timescapes produced in 4 different phases of over in-depthiness.

45
00:06:44.080 --> 00:06:51.949
Erik Eriksson: and we highlight here the differences in perceived time, rhythm, and speed of time. In these cases

46
00:06:53.330 --> 00:06:59.349
Tobias Davidsson: the presentation focuses on in depth in us through credit, market and and through consumer credit.

47
00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:09.450
Erik Eriksson: But it should also be mentioned that we have have also interviewed young adults that has been accumulated through. for example, fines or from being swindled.

48
00:07:12.700 --> 00:07:29.270
Tobias Davidsson: Okay. So the first phase or sequence is the one that precedes over indebtedness. Nevertheless, depth is typically already a feature in the lives of the young adults.

49
00:07:29.780 --> 00:07:39.539
Tobias Davidsson: Like everybody else, young adults are, of course, deeply ensnred in a consumerist market culture, where credit is completely normalized.

50
00:07:39.990 --> 00:07:45.269
Tobias Davidsson: This face, then, is often characterized by a.

51
00:07:45.540 --> 00:07:57.880
Tobias Davidsson: let's say, standardize indebtedness. For for example, consumption using by now pay later services from a temporal perspective. The young adults in the study

52
00:07:58.290 --> 00:08:05.420
Tobias Davidsson: tend to be preoccupied with a sense or a fear of not keeping up financially in this face.

53
00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:17.010
Tobias Davidsson: This could either relate to an inadequacy to settle basal expenses. or a sense of falling behind in a consumption oriented formation of identity.

54
00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:28.139
Tobias Davidsson: When it comes to the ladder, the young adults often compare themselves to their peers as exemplified by this quote from Max, 23 years old.

55
00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:36.780
Tobias Davidsson: Actually I had enough money to live. But if you want to live like a rich person when you're poor, that's what happens.

56
00:08:36.940 --> 00:08:49.550
Tobias Davidsson: I could take a loan on a Friday night at work with no money in the account, friends are going out to party. I thought, I won't be able to join or, i'll take out a small loan and go out with them

57
00:08:52.690 --> 00:09:04.010
Erik Eriksson:  yes. And then then in the second face, the the face where the young adults go from being in just injected to become over indebted

58
00:09:04.310 --> 00:09:17.009
Erik Eriksson: this face often includes the establishment of relations with the some of the murkier parts of the credit market. Not seldom companies that approve payday loans or unsecure loans.

59
00:09:17.530 --> 00:09:23.959
Erik Eriksson: and this face tends to be characterized by an intensification of time and a sped up tempo.

60
00:09:25.050 --> 00:09:39.890
Erik Eriksson: and this becomes abundantly clear in the process of applying for and and being granted payday loans and the so called instant loans. which is experienced as a considerably rapid process.

61
00:09:40.410 --> 00:09:52.420
Erik Eriksson: often manage the without any human interactions through apps or websites, and this makes the time gap between financially desperate and actually having money extremely short.

62
00:09:52.890 --> 00:10:07.600
Erik Eriksson: and in many cases the speed of a loan. Approval is described by the young adults as a rush or a sensation illustrated here by a quote from Oscar Who is retelling when he took his first loan.

63
00:10:08.390 --> 00:10:16.540
Erik Eriksson: and he says, I have a clear picture of how I am at work. I'm probably in a mess. I have no money.

64
00:10:16.620 --> 00:10:20.569
Erik Eriksson: and I'm living with my mates, and we want to continue living like we do.

65
00:10:21.010 --> 00:10:27.239
Erik Eriksson: Suddenly I I apply for an instant loan €1,000 that that's how fast it went.

66
00:10:27.410 --> 00:10:29.330
Erik Eriksson: It's a snaps his finger.

67
00:10:30.370 --> 00:10:39.630
Erik Eriksson: I saw this stuff about percentages and interest rates. And I understood to some extent, okay, this is not good, but I thought, I'll solve it.

68
00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:51.530
Erik Eriksson: and I got the money immediately. I expand it as a kind of rush. I can do whatever I want with this money. It's mine now, and I had no thought at that time about paying back.

69
00:10:52.960 --> 00:11:02.199
Erik Eriksson: So here the quickness of the credit market is illustrated, but the timescapes of the young adults in this face are also intensified in another aspect as well.

70
00:11:02.810 --> 00:11:11.490
Erik Eriksson: When the sudden rush of the first loan fades, and the claims of installments reaches the young adults, their life all often becomes

71
00:11:12.050 --> 00:11:16.110
Erik Eriksson: focused on finding new creditors to pay off the old loans

72
00:11:16.280 --> 00:11:23.100
Erik Eriksson: and then find new address again to pay off those loans, and this sets out sets off a kind of

73
00:11:23.250 --> 00:11:32.309
Erik Eriksson: a loan. Spiral is spinning fast and faster as more loans accumulate. and this easily risks to swirl out of control.

74
00:11:36.780 --> 00:11:50.580
Tobias Davidsson: Yes, so then, the next phase is the social life as over indebted when the transformation has been completed. And this is also the face where we have met the

75
00:11:50.730 --> 00:11:56.850
Tobias Davidsson: the young adults that we interviewed for the study. They are in this face when we meet them.

76
00:11:57.410 --> 00:12:06.100
Tobias Davidsson: So when depths get registered at the Swedish enforcement authority and the repayment schedule is implemented.

77
00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:17.450
Tobias Davidsson: This constitutes a sharp contrast in temporality, not at least in relation to the preceding face, the one that Eric just accounted for.

78
00:12:18.330 --> 00:12:21.739
Tobias Davidsson: In one sense everything slows down.

79
00:12:21.770 --> 00:12:32.949
Tobias Davidsson: Life is returned to a more cyclical process the credit spiral has ended, and instead of being subject to the hyperspeed of the credit market.

80
00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:41.310
Tobias Davidsson: the young adults, timescapes are in part affected by the more measured time logics of the State apparatus.

81
00:12:42.270 --> 00:13:01.610
Tobias Davidsson: Here life tends to become austere, and aesthetic. Parts of their wages are regularly ceased from the enforcement. Authority and time seems to be set on pause or on repeat, but something that often comes back in the in the interviews.

82
00:13:01.890 --> 00:13:08.000
Tobias Davidsson: and especially when the young adults compare themselves to friends of the same age.

83
00:13:08.930 --> 00:13:16.290
Tobias Davidsson: but in another sense time goes on unremittingly. Bills and other expenses must be regularly paid.

84
00:13:16.430 --> 00:13:21.139
Tobias Davidsson: subjecting many to work overtime, and not daring to call in sick.

85
00:13:21.900 --> 00:13:28.239
Tobias Davidsson: A quote from Amanda sums up many of the aspects pertaining to this face of indebtedness.

86
00:13:29.680 --> 00:13:41.530
Tobias Davidsson: She says, above all, it feels like life is on a constant repeat. I live every day like it's the same day all the time life is put on hold.

87
00:13:41.900 --> 00:13:49.650
Tobias Davidsson: I think a lot about this with my friends. One of my friends has 2 sons and a house, and she is as old as me.

88
00:13:50.180 --> 00:14:01.310
Tobias Davidsson: What have I achieved in life so far becoming indebted to a point where I can't do a damn thing. So it's a very big sadness, disappointment, jealousy.

89
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:05.460
Tobias Davidsson: Hmm!

90
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:14.589
Erik Eriksson: And thinking about time finally, when the participants are asked about their visions of the future.

91
00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:24.989
Erik Eriksson: many of them project or other bleak image, the dreams and hopes of the future. Life tends to be articulated in a quite negative fashion.

92
00:14:25.470 --> 00:14:33.929
Erik Eriksson: They dream solely of being free from depth, and that future as depth-free, is commonly a very long time away from the present.

93
00:14:34.800 --> 00:14:40.499
Erik Eriksson: when pressed on. How they ambition their lives is that free? Many of the young adults say the same thing.

94
00:14:40.950 --> 00:14:48.100
Erik Eriksson: They just wish for a future life that is calm and stable. as shown in this quote by Felicia.

95
00:14:48.470 --> 00:14:49.869
Erik Eriksson: and she says that

96
00:14:50.060 --> 00:15:02.059
Erik Eriksson: I can't wait for the day when I finished paying the for if Enforcement authority and start to put away money for my family or into the children's savings account

97
00:15:02.620 --> 00:15:09.320
Erik Eriksson: right now I haven't had the opportunity to do that. I year for a stable life. I have a call every day live.

98
00:15:10.130 --> 00:15:13.000
Erik Eriksson: and and not all this stress.

99
00:15:16.850 --> 00:15:26.579
Tobias Davidsson: All right. So this is our last slide, and if we were to sum up and analytically advance the presented results.

100
00:15:27.070 --> 00:15:44.390
Tobias Davidsson: we can conclude that over-indepted young adults find themselves out of rhythm in all faces of indebted life. First, we view themselves as falling behind either a perceived or a real normal notion of consumption

101
00:15:44.510 --> 00:15:54.110
Tobias Davidsson: loans, and by now pay later services serve as a means of at least temporarily create a sense of catching up.

102
00:15:54.750 --> 00:16:01.199
Tobias Davidsson: However, the feeling of being in sync is clearly provisional or episodic.

103
00:16:01.680 --> 00:16:10.769
Tobias Davidsson: When bills pile up and exceed the disposable income, the young adults apply for even riskier loans, but are approved in a rapid fashion.

104
00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:17.430
Tobias Davidsson: partly, or mostly due to the inadequate regulations of the Swedish credit market.

105
00:16:17.950 --> 00:16:25.230
Tobias Davidsson: This then, sets off a fervent and intense hunt for loans to pay of previous depths. So

106
00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:27.230
Tobias Davidsson: in the process

107
00:16:27.470 --> 00:16:38.110
Tobias Davidsson: of indebtedness, transforming into over-indptedness past depths are dictating fast-moving actions in the present, which in turn shape the future.

108
00:16:38.810 --> 00:16:44.729
Tobias Davidsson: The intense credit. Spiral ends when debts are registered at the enforcement authority.

109
00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:56.099
Tobias Davidsson: The young adults can no longer be granted credit because of pay defaults, and they enter a timescape, characterized by a sense of one's life being set on, pause or repeat

110
00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:07.490
Tobias Davidsson: the past haunts the young adults. When a regime of monthly repayment administered administered by the State, equips a gloomy present marked by dire financial situation.

111
00:17:08.020 --> 00:17:22.110
Tobias Davidsson: When, looking around, the over-inducted young adults see friends of the same age establish themselves by taking steps into what is perceived as adulthood. while the young adults in the study experience their own trajectory as stuff.

112
00:17:23.670 --> 00:17:34.830
Tobias Davidsson: and in a striking fashion the overall out of rhythm, and the timescapes produced seem to mirror the social relations established in different faces.

113
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:48.420
Tobias Davidsson: First, the sense and fear of falling behind in the face preceding over-indptedness reveals to the desire-driven consumption so integral for contemporary configurations of capitalism.

114
00:17:48.650 --> 00:18:01.880
Tobias Davidsson: The race against others is emblematic for the regime that German sociologist hart motorosa succinctly terms as the totalitarianism of social acceleration.

115
00:18:01.930 --> 00:18:05.339
Tobias Davidsson: driven by an all-dominating modus of competition.

116
00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:19.480
Tobias Davidsson: The use of by now pay later schemes. perfectly encapsulate how the subject calibrates itself in a seemingly paradoxical dictate of analogous urgency and deferment.

117
00:18:20.300 --> 00:18:30.709
Tobias Davidsson: Then the rush and rapidity of becoming overindicted is propelled by getting embedded in the fervent hyperspeed of meekly regulated financial capitalism

118
00:18:30.810 --> 00:18:36.609
Tobias Davidsson: where creditors tend to target low-income loan applicants as the most ideal debtors.

119
00:18:36.830 --> 00:18:45.190
Tobias Davidsson: Here the instantaneous character of the credit market enabled by digital technologies and flawed assessments of credit-wariness.

120
00:18:45.320 --> 00:18:50.999
Tobias Davidsson: both mirrors and accelerates the desperation that distinguishes a life in the depth trip

121
00:18:51.610 --> 00:18:57.110
Tobias Davidsson: conversely and finally, the sluggishness of being over-indepted. Net.

122
00:18:57.120 --> 00:19:04.029
Tobias Davidsson: over-in-depthed, reflects the slow moving logics of repayment administered by the State.

123
00:19:04.270 --> 00:19:24.320
Tobias Davidsson: while the relationships to creditors is characterized by an accelerated and irregular ribbon. The dull and tedious bureaucratic procedures of the Enforcement authority produce a stalemate and a subject yet again finds him or herself falling relentlessly behind.

124
00:19:24.730 --> 00:19:32.039
Tobias Davidsson: But this time in a decidedly more indefinite fashion than when they first started to get into debt.

125
00:19:33.300 --> 00:19:34.960
Tobias Davidsson: That's it for us.

126
00:19:38.360 --> 00:19:40.379
All right. Thank you so much.

127
00:19:41.550 --> 00:19:51.120
we're going to save questions and tell the end so we can move on to the next presentation. So, Fatah, if you would like to

128
00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:53.080
share your screen.

129
00:19:53.210 --> 00:19:56.540
M. Fatih Karakaya: Yeah, can you see the slide? Sure

130
00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:09.030
M. Fatih Karakaya: looks great. First of all. Thank you very much for chairing our session. And I would like to thank to the International Sociological Association and the Research Committee on Economic and

131
00:20:09.170 --> 00:20:27.970
M. Fatih Karakaya: Colonial Society to provide this opportunity to us to share our presentations. My presentation is on the restructuring the customer credit, and I'm conducting a golfmannis frame analysis of non performing law market in Turkey.

132
00:20:28.030 --> 00:20:35.090
M. Fatih Karakaya: So 3 things from Istanbul, and it's almost 4 Am. In the morning.

133
00:20:35.350 --> 00:20:59.239
M. Fatih Karakaya: This is also a result of a preliminary result of my ongoing research, and this is the the the the picture of consumer credit market in Turkey, and, as you may see beginning with the the the millennium the the volume of the consumer. Credit in Turkey is kind of

134
00:20:59.560 --> 00:21:02.390
M. Fatih Karakaya: multiplied

135
00:21:02.430 --> 00:21:17.999
M. Fatih Karakaya: 260 fold, and the the non-performing loans in Turkey again, starting from the millennium big, the beginning of the millennium now multiplied by 130 fold.

136
00:21:18.090 --> 00:21:21.040
M. Fatih Karakaya: So actually did the the

137
00:21:21.170 --> 00:21:24.240
M. Fatih Karakaya: how's that ratio to

138
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:29.790
M. Fatih Karakaya: that to disposal disposable income ratio is

139
00:21:30.020 --> 00:21:42.939
M. Fatih Karakaya: too low if we compare it with United States, Canada, Japan, or or European countries, and we can call them early financialized countries comparing with Turkey.

140
00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:53.099
M. Fatih Karakaya: But the the the pays of the increase in consumer credit market is kind of dramatic, so we can call it a a consumer credit pool.

141
00:21:53.740 --> 00:22:05.809
M. Fatih Karakaya: So these are the the dramatic. The the picture of the this dramatic increase both in consumer credit market and the Nlp. Ratios of customer credits in Turkey.

142
00:22:07.040 --> 00:22:23.979
M. Fatih Karakaya: I actually, my my research is chronologically follow up follows up with the Tobias and presentation. So over within, that is kind of end up with sometimes end up with default.

143
00:22:24.130 --> 00:22:42.180
M. Fatih Karakaya: So actual landers, employee various devices to manage this risk to avoid this. before zoom. At least, they try to employ some again, various devices and techniques to minimize the the risk of default

144
00:22:42.320 --> 00:22:57.320
M. Fatih Karakaya: creditors. But that was sorry, but still the full exist, and but the thing is for me, it is my, feel actually the the the magical finance capitalism.

145
00:22:57.390 --> 00:23:11.560
M. Fatih Karakaya:  find a way to make this cow, and hence we we are how we all have kind of the this Npl market in in different countries, and the Mpl

146
00:23:11.650 --> 00:23:18.520
M. Fatih Karakaya: markets, or secondary, that markets that long markets emerged in various countries and

147
00:23:18.550 --> 00:23:24.140
M. Fatih Karakaya: in these markets that the the buyers of these bad loans are those

148
00:23:24.280 --> 00:23:41.909
M. Fatih Karakaya: some financial companies specialize mostly on this, that loan business, and they are buying these bad loans on for for pennies on the dollar, so they are paying

149
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:48.390
M. Fatih Karakaya: real less amount when, if you compare with the with the, with the principle of the to that.

150
00:23:48.420 --> 00:24:05.570
M. Fatih Karakaya: And they these, these companies, these these firms, made loan by firms, attempt to collect these debts either, or or they may package them with different assets and sell them to other similar companies.

151
00:24:05.780 --> 00:24:30.850
M. Fatih Karakaya: So these are the the the key challenge and good practices for the Mpl market. So I I don't. I don't want to go into detail, but some, if you, if you look at the examples of good practices for for regulators or banks, you can have an understanding of what's going on in the market. Because, the suggestions for regulators

152
00:24:30.850 --> 00:24:49.940
M. Fatih Karakaya: include some you know, provisioning policies for banks strict through collateral valuation for the requirements, for the for the credits, etc. And they they they suggest some policies for the banks like

153
00:24:50.040 --> 00:24:52.420
M. Fatih Karakaya: From this

154
00:24:52.750 --> 00:25:00.610
M. Fatih Karakaya: a spring of emails. This questions clarity on negotiation of, you know Sba and your arrangements, etc.

155
00:25:01.040 --> 00:25:19.309
M. Fatih Karakaya: So what? What is the case in in the Mpl. Market in in in Turkey. If you if you look at the situation, actually, we had a real big financial crisis in 2,001 and week back in crisis end up with

156
00:25:19.560 --> 00:25:34.800
M. Fatih Karakaya: bankruptcy banks, big banks actually. And some of them they lot bail out by savings and depos in insurance fund. And they this, this

157
00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:52.409
M. Fatih Karakaya:  this office, set the scene for selling the Mps to so-called asset management companies, and by 2,008 private banks have started selling Mps to those Amcs. And since then.

158
00:25:52.480 --> 00:26:15.109
M. Fatih Karakaya: till 2,020 I divided up the the the history of Mpl. Market in Turkey, because it was a diff that there was a different pattern to pandemic, and there is a different pattern after pandemic. But if you look at the the situation.

159
00:26:15.140 --> 00:26:38.139
M. Fatih Karakaya: Starting from 2,008 till to end to 20, we see a yearly growth of 20% in Npl market, and the the volume of the Mpl. S. Sold to as the asset management companies worth 6 over 60 billion Turkish lyrics, and

160
00:26:38.870 --> 00:27:02.450
M. Fatih Karakaya: in 1,92019 banking regulator rents for misery authority, I issued a press release to urge to the banks to rick us for their 4 to 6 billion word assets in as Mpl. But pandemic occurred and the Rsa. started to

161
00:27:02.620 --> 00:27:23.710
M. Fatih Karakaya: regulate. They regulate all the banking environment to let them a a briefing moment for a slow grow economy as well. So the the the the classification of Mpl. Has changed

162
00:27:23.740 --> 00:27:49.210
M. Fatih Karakaya: for during the pandemic. But then it started again, and the the banks started to sell their Mpl. To the Asset Management Company. So this was the case till 2,020, and, as you may see, in 2,020, there's a real less amount of Nfl. Sale in the market.

163
00:27:49.390 --> 00:27:55.309
M. Fatih Karakaya: and if you look at the picture. Here you can see the retail

164
00:27:55.330 --> 00:28:04.800
M. Fatih Karakaya: credits that the consumer credits are the kind of half of the market. So these are all unsecured laws.

165
00:28:05.030 --> 00:28:08.510
M. Fatih Karakaya: So after 2,020

166
00:28:08.840 --> 00:28:36.599
M. Fatih Karakaya: Mpl. Sales rolling started to increase again. as we see in 2,021 and 2022 there. There were, near 6 billion 20 billion Turkish era of sales respectively, and it reached 80 billion in 20 to 22 in the market and Mpl. Market volume.

167
00:28:36.600 --> 00:28:54.309
M. Fatih Karakaya: and CEO of a big. This Amc. In Turkey has said, they're expecting another around 20 billion sales in 20 to one to 3 which is occurring now. So what? What? Who are these Amc's that the Amc's asset management companies

168
00:28:54.310 --> 00:29:15.750
M. Fatih Karakaya: some specialized company that for helping Banks free their balance sheet out of this non-performing loans or toxic assets, and they try to help the the financial system sustain, be sustainable, and improve the profitability, and, you know.

169
00:29:16.090 --> 00:29:37.990
M. Fatih Karakaya: facilitate the banking operations out of this burden of reserving. for the for this toxic assets. And these are license financial institutions, and they're subject to to the regulations of the banking regulation and supervisory authority.

170
00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:40.480
M. Fatih Karakaya: And they are,

171
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:51.420
M. Fatih Karakaya: They are buying the and selling the bad loans from the banks as well as the security Deposit insurance fund.

172
00:29:51.440 --> 00:30:08.500
M. Fatih Karakaya: And they're trying to collect or package these assets for another similar companies, or try to employ this, that collection techniques and devices to collected that.

173
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:27.360
M. Fatih Karakaya: So this was this was the case this was the list for asset management companies in in Turkey, which are list licensed by Brsa and first, 2 big asset management companies. Galic means feature in Turkey

174
00:30:27.360 --> 00:30:41.230
M. Fatih Karakaya: and Dunia means Earth, in, in, in, in Turkish. They have the half of the half of the share of the market in Turkey, the Mpl. Market.

175
00:30:41.850 --> 00:30:59.460
M. Fatih Karakaya: and how they define themselves. If if you look at the the the the adjectives and the missions, and the visions of the companies, the the as it management companies. You can see they're trying to set customers free.

176
00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:24.220
M. Fatih Karakaya: or they trying to set customers freed by succeeding getting piece. Or they use technology to make the customers. You can read it like thatters have a unique experience by having a customer centered approach, and they try to distingly stem cells from the other Amc's, because.

177
00:31:24.220 --> 00:31:47.180
M. Fatih Karakaya: for example, is leading its sector with it's transaction volume number of employees. And it's invested, such as Ebrd European Bank for reconstruction and development and the vector holdings and gadget one like another big Amc. In Turkey put their mission as a untchaining

178
00:31:47.180 --> 00:31:56.130
M. Fatih Karakaya: the customers from their debt burdens and make them reach financial freedom, and they they, they define their vision as regaining

179
00:31:56.280 --> 00:32:12.500
M. Fatih Karakaya: as much as thatters to the economy with in a waiting approach. So this is kind of re-inclusion of the re a financial inclusion of those defaulted daughters who.

180
00:32:12.500 --> 00:32:36.470
M. Fatih Karakaya: most probably kicked out of the system because of their default with that there's for by the banks. But this asset management companies try to re include them in the in the financial system, and they define their fundamental values. Get a jig, while, like as trust, effective communication, innovation, professionalism, and compromise.

181
00:32:36.570 --> 00:32:37.680
M. Fatih Karakaya: But

182
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:44.570
M. Fatih Karakaya:  if you go into the field and conduct some

183
00:32:44.610 --> 00:33:01.590
M. Fatih Karakaya: ethnographic research, or if you conduct some interview with the default. The doctors who are now negotiating with asset management companies, you will see the situation is a little bit different from this vision that you know announcements

184
00:33:01.630 --> 00:33:11.480
M. Fatih Karakaya: and I conduct an ethnographic research in a training of training, session, training, education of

185
00:33:11.550 --> 00:33:16.700
M. Fatih Karakaya: of the that collection firm and a trainer

186
00:33:16.860 --> 00:33:19.840
M. Fatih Karakaya: come, come there, and you know

187
00:33:21.540 --> 00:33:31.770
M. Fatih Karakaya: why some hints and freaks to collect effectively. And he the guy he was a guy. So he was

188
00:33:31.780 --> 00:33:47.170
M. Fatih Karakaya: telling the the the the collectors to follow up with the the the simple rules of court, to see and open up the collection negotiation process with

189
00:33:47.190 --> 00:33:52.099
M. Fatih Karakaya: greetings and introducing yourself and

190
00:33:52.190 --> 00:34:13.649
M. Fatih Karakaya: using, not using your such such as Hello or Sir, or just address the other party with his or her name, and kindly ask if he is, or she is available at the moment. If you're calling on on a on a mobile phone.

191
00:34:13.650 --> 00:34:38.259
M. Fatih Karakaya: so if if they're not available, ask them politely what? Which is what what is the best time to call them again, to help them with this trouble, some issue to let set them free out of this burden, and, you know, succeed the financial freedom, etc.

192
00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:58.559
M. Fatih Karakaya: And make sure that they're you're doing a good job. You are smiling. You're speaking frankly, and you are trying to establish a real relationship with them and make them be sure that you are taking the situation seriously.

193
00:34:58.560 --> 00:35:22.969
M. Fatih Karakaya: and you are taking notes. you may ask the question, to repeat the number and the P. Today, to repeat the time, exact time, proper time to call again and make them sure that you are taking notes, and you're approaching the situation where? Seriously and when you're concluding the the conversation.

194
00:35:22.970 --> 00:35:45.080
M. Fatih Karakaya: just say sorry that to interrupt their meeting or their gathering, etc. And be sure that you after, if it's a controversial conversation, be sure that the doors are all open to call again, meet again and negotiate again, and even if the other part in you use

195
00:35:45.130 --> 00:35:48.449
M. Fatih Karakaya: rude and unkind words, just

196
00:35:49.310 --> 00:35:54.949
not lose your kindness and follow up with the simple rules of courtesy.

197
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:59.960
M. Fatih Karakaya: and if you are negotiating on the on the issue.

198
00:36:00.070 --> 00:36:07.729
M. Fatih Karakaya: just ask simple questions. Open added questions, and be sure that you're not, you know.

199
00:36:07.970 --> 00:36:12.680
M. Fatih Karakaya: harassing them with with, some questions like.

200
00:36:12.790 --> 00:36:24.889
M. Fatih Karakaya: Why didn't you pay, or why didn't you read the contract the days instead of those questions better? You ask? There must have been a very important reason. Why didn't you pay? I hope you won't get.

201
00:36:24.970 --> 00:36:26.430
M. Fatih Karakaya: You want us

202
00:36:26.440 --> 00:36:54.790
M. Fatih Karakaya: to let you get freedom of this, that as soon as possible, or you may better at say them. Yeah, I think you missed the contracted days. If you want, let me read you the relevant article of to contract new sign. So these are the training trainers hints and tricks in that collection process to be able to make it effective and make, you know we.

203
00:36:54.790 --> 00:37:02.660
M. Fatih Karakaya: and make you sure that you're wasting your you're not wasting your time with an uneffective and effective

204
00:37:02.660 --> 00:37:20.579
M. Fatih Karakaya: collection process and make you sure that you're not harassing. You're not violating the Gdrp. G Gdp, or sorry, and not you're not harassing the other party, and you You're not

205
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:42.149
M. Fatih Karakaya: ending up with that furious thatter who is now against you, and insisting on not paying any amount of to to to do that collection firm to your firm, and it will affect your, you know, performance like criteria, as in your in your company, so these are the

206
00:37:42.149 --> 00:37:58.330
M. Fatih Karakaya: instant freaks providing provided in in the training session. But if you go into the field and conduct some, if you conduct an ethnographic research, or if you conduct some interviews you're facing with

207
00:37:58.450 --> 00:38:11.380
M. Fatih Karakaya: lots of complaints about this asset management conference. I posted many complaints, but I will just read the interesting ones. For example.

208
00:38:11.490 --> 00:38:16.650
M. Fatih Karakaya: one guy called is my. You see, here

209
00:38:16.720 --> 00:38:20.149
M. Fatih Karakaya: he is complaining, like Mrs.

210
00:38:20.569 --> 00:38:23.040
M. Fatih Karakaya: Lady from some

211
00:38:23.390 --> 00:38:39.590
M. Fatih Karakaya: asset management company, is insisting on getting my personal information, though the process is now on bailiff, as I told her that I don't want to be disturbed anymore, she responded me in a threatening tone, indicating that she would be distributing me repeatedly.

212
00:38:39.830 --> 00:38:41.550
M. Fatih Karakaya: and another lady

213
00:38:41.660 --> 00:38:45.619
M. Fatih Karakaya: name is them just below. Okay. Called it.

214
00:38:45.910 --> 00:38:50.670
M. Fatih Karakaya: she said, in spite of the fact that the issues is not my concern

215
00:38:51.370 --> 00:39:00.120
M. Fatih Karakaya: this Asset management company calls me my phone again and again. They have a root threatening and disturbing tone.

216
00:39:01.570 --> 00:39:11.819
M. Fatih Karakaya: And just just at the bottom of the page, you'll you see another quotation from a lawyer of a data, and

217
00:39:12.020 --> 00:39:15.009
M. Fatih Karakaya: he says a lady called

218
00:39:16.870 --> 00:39:24.030
M. Fatih Karakaya: Blah Blah, the name of the lady from another Asset Management Company, insulting the customers with

219
00:39:24.060 --> 00:39:26.060
M. Fatih Karakaya: her root manners.

220
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:39.800
M. Fatih Karakaya: And if you go in these other complaints, you can see here a lady again named Guchin is complaining about another

221
00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:46.910
M. Fatih Karakaya: asset management companies, she says, although Dennis Bank sold my debt without any written notice.

222
00:39:47.690 --> 00:39:51.310
M. Fatih Karakaya: this asset Management company asks me to pay

223
00:39:51.470 --> 00:40:03.439
M. Fatih Karakaya: 658 Turkish lira, a guide. They are mocking at me and hanging up on me. I'm pregnant and victimized. I want to solve the problem by paying the principle

224
00:40:03.570 --> 00:40:08.180
M. Fatih Karakaya: and the the next complaint just to all this one

225
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:12.169
M. Fatih Karakaya: A lady again called Perry

226
00:40:12.200 --> 00:40:13.380
M. Fatih Karakaya: says

227
00:40:13.590 --> 00:40:23.799
M. Fatih Karakaya: this asset management company is calling me on my personal mobile number for my mother's death when I warned them. This is illegal. They are telling me that this is the contact number

228
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:29.609
M. Fatih Karakaya: for my mother delete my number, or I will sue you on wiling in the Gdpr.

229
00:40:30.070 --> 00:40:38.390
M. Fatih Karakaya: And at the bottom you will see again another tragic complaint from hockey, and he says

230
00:40:38.710 --> 00:40:47.789
M. Fatih Karakaya: this asset Management Company board depends on me. They call me every day, though I told them I cannot paid at the moment because of financial difficulties I'm facing now.

231
00:40:47.860 --> 00:40:53.650
M. Fatih Karakaya: They keep keep calling and harassing me. I even think about committing suicide.

232
00:40:54.510 --> 00:40:57.089
M. Fatih Karakaya: And these are the public opinion about

233
00:40:57.220 --> 00:41:12.420
M. Fatih Karakaya: yeah, or about the asset management companies you, still taking a member of Parliament of the main opposition party, and he's also saying this harassing the adapters and boring depends of the adapters and

234
00:41:12.550 --> 00:41:23.520
M. Fatih Karakaya: causing incurable vans. The leader, chairman of main Opposition party before the election address to the daughters and call them

235
00:41:23.660 --> 00:41:47.550
M. Fatih Karakaya: Urge them of this situation and tell them don't pay. I'll told them after the election, but they he had no chance to talk to the this asset management companies, and they and he labeled this Asset Management Company, as usual, as Mafia v. Present centrep. And

236
00:41:47.560 --> 00:41:54.780
M. Fatih Karakaya: you may see this. Another news agency is also

237
00:41:54.890 --> 00:42:16.920
M. Fatih Karakaya: put this issue on the on the projections, and I mentioned about many complaints, and in my ethnographic research I also witnessed in a dep restructuring negotiation. The guys are closing the air conditioner to put the pressure on the data

238
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:35.000
M. Fatih Karakaya: by make the room hotter. We, we we then increasing temperature. And sometimes they 2 guys started to negotiate on the restructuring terms. And one guy played it good police and one guy

239
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:52.249
M. Fatih Karakaya: play the play the the the back police, and they try to pursue the debtors and put too much emotional labor to the effectively negotiate on the on the terms of restructuring. So all in all

240
00:42:52.930 --> 00:43:13.830
M. Fatih Karakaya: we can say before the borrowers have no saying whether and to whom their that are sold and they just receive phone calls that there's an email from an asset management company that offers the hand to save them from. And I'm going before and let them reach in financial freedom and regaining them to the finances system.

241
00:43:13.830 --> 00:43:37.009
M. Fatih Karakaya: And although the promotions of I am season, although the definition, they are self definitions of their, you know, values, visions, and missions, and although they promote their well amount of staff, kindly helping borrowers and getting rid of the burden of oh, and the stigma of default there. There are many complaints, as we all saw in in the, in the

242
00:43:37.010 --> 00:43:56.780
M. Fatih Karakaya: presentation about the quality and the language of the services, and so the in Congress, and interactions within the collection process still have the mixed taste of stigmatization, marginalization, harassment, discrimination, negotiations, solidarity, compromise and forgiving. And so on.

243
00:43:56.780 --> 00:44:11.170
M. Fatih Karakaya: So we all. In all we can say, asset management companies are restructuring both the formal and informal default patterns of personal debt relations wide restructuring the amount performing laws.

244
00:44:11.310 --> 00:44:14.200
M. Fatih Karakaya: So thank you very much for your attention.

245
00:44:16.170 --> 00:44:24.619
Thank you so much. So we'll move on to the next presentation, which Fernanda, if you'd like to share your screen. And your

246
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:25.660
Mike.

247
00:44:35.530 --> 00:44:37.330
okay? And you're still on mute.

248
00:44:48.970 --> 00:44:50.000
Fernanda de Gobbi: Hi.

249
00:45:00.210 --> 00:45:04.460
I hope your your mic is cutting out a lot. It's hard to hear.

250
00:45:16.450 --> 00:45:17.890
Yeah, we can't really

251
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.130
here, you it's cutting out.

252
00:45:25.340 --> 00:45:27.609
Fernanda de Gobbi: Can you hear me now?

253
00:45:28.160 --> 00:45:29.939
Yes, yes.

254
00:45:32.740 --> 00:45:33.800
Fernanda de Gobbi: sorry.

255
00:45:34.050 --> 00:45:35.519
yes, much better.

256
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:41.689
Fernanda de Gobbi: Good. So maybe can. If I think the link can you present for me, please.

257
00:45:42.700 --> 00:45:45.170
I can. Yeah, right?

258
00:45:45.430 --> 00:45:46.730
Fernanda de Gobbi: Thank you.

259
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:52.250
Fernanda de Gobbi: because it's walking here to present and to see you at the same time.

260
00:45:53.430 --> 00:45:55.480
Fernanda de Gobbi: Let me see here.

261
00:46:00.830 --> 00:46:03.250
Fernanda de Gobbi: Yes. you think

262
00:46:14.850 --> 00:46:17.960
Fernanda de Gobbi: yes, no, no, no, it's not this one.

263
00:46:18.270 --> 00:46:22.720
Fernanda de Gobbi: Did I say this this link? This is the

264
00:46:23.240 --> 00:46:24.160
Fernanda de Gobbi: you're not

265
00:46:24.590 --> 00:46:30.010
 Where did you? Did you send it just now.

266
00:46:31.090 --> 00:46:32.950
we don't see it in the chat

267
00:46:33.110 --> 00:46:40.769
Fernanda de Gobbi: no. let me, change again. I think to you directly with the concerns to everybody

268
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:52.369
Fernanda de Gobbi:  I'm sorry.

269
00:46:53.980 --> 00:46:54.969
How are we?

270
00:46:59.050 --> 00:47:00.710
Fernanda de Gobbi: Yes, that that's it.

271
00:47:01.660 --> 00:47:05.890
Fernanda de Gobbi:  Here, yes.

272
00:47:06.090 --> 00:47:10.150
Fernanda de Gobbi: And then we, this one.

273
00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:12.939
Fernanda de Gobbi: yes, yes. Great. Thank you.

274
00:47:13.070 --> 00:47:14.730
Fernanda de Gobbi: Sorry.

275
00:47:15.540 --> 00:47:18.480
So, okay.

276
00:47:18.530 --> 00:47:19.560
oh, wait.

277
00:47:20.130 --> 00:47:23.849
So yeah, just let me know when you want to switch. And I could

278
00:47:24.240 --> 00:47:25.250
Fernanda de Gobbi: thank you.

279
00:47:25.290 --> 00:47:36.570
Fernanda de Gobbi: So my first of all, I would like to thank you very much for accepting my work. And for the general opportunity to discuss internationally, internationally a topic

280
00:47:36.670 --> 00:47:41.390
Fernanda de Gobbi: that's very important to our office. It's my first time here. It's a great pleasure.

281
00:47:41.500 --> 00:47:54.569
Fernanda de Gobbi: and my name is Fernando de Gobi, and I'm doing my Master's degree now in sociology at Feder on the first of some kind. It's on Paulo Brazil with a research training actually the University in the Netherlands.

282
00:47:54.770 --> 00:48:06.289
Fernanda de Gobbi: and I also would like to apologize for my poor English, which, of course, about my first language, and I only has the opportunity to start learning not a long time ago. So

283
00:48:06.330 --> 00:48:10.529
Fernanda de Gobbi: if there is something that you cannot understand. Please let me know.

284
00:48:11.240 --> 00:48:14.080
Fernanda de Gobbi: and you can switch, please.

285
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:17.570
Fernanda de Gobbi: Thank you.

286
00:48:17.600 --> 00:48:31.900
Fernanda de Gobbi: So in the last 2 years, since my bachelor's in sociology, I have been building a discussion about this circulation of money in the form in the form of informal illegal credits in popular markets of

287
00:48:32.130 --> 00:48:43.980
Fernanda de Gobbi: and in today's presentation. We try to analyze in more detail what are the off effects of the circulation of this street money, the reading, formal, illegal loans in. So Paulo

288
00:48:44.130 --> 00:49:07.899
Fernanda de Gobbi: and I'm mistake that we have, e that I always made in my other presentations. of my research, including in Brazil, is to assume that people already know what lonely sharking is. it's a bit of a classic mistake of the social scientists who is obsessed with the their research objective to object.

289
00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:16.390
Fernanda de Gobbi: so you want to understand your relationships, or to always starve with the first thing, understanding or taking into account who is being related?

290
00:49:16.550 --> 00:49:32.530
Fernanda de Gobbi: and I think in the case of lowly sharking. this is a little bit more difficult. because there are no other studies about this practicing resilience, and only a few studies about this breakdown practice around the world.

291
00:49:32.540 --> 00:49:40.860
Fernanda de Gobbi: So it is a subject also. Very little though. in the midway through also, not only empirically.

292
00:49:41.140 --> 00:50:01.790
Fernanda de Gobbi: and I'm sure everyone has some idea, even if it's a bit clown idea about what's what, what, what is a holy shark, or at least everyone once heard or saw something about, about some story about that that we follow. The shark

293
00:50:02.010 --> 00:50:10.810
Fernanda de Gobbi: was thinking and talking about low in shark. necessarily includes a debate about finance money, that

294
00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:19.730
Fernanda de Gobbi: which are subjects considered debated in a sociological, anthropological, economical.

295
00:50:19.890 --> 00:50:37.739
Fernanda de Gobbi: economic, as a personal, delicate, conflicting, and domestic issue, and often seen as a personal problem which is on of the explanation. So I credit is not regulated by law in many countries of Latin American. Could you resume, of course.

296
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:49.100
Fernanda de Gobbi: if you can switch for me, please. Thank you. And our popular commerce thinkers, as you can see the image

297
00:50:49.110 --> 00:51:01.429
Fernanda de Gobbi: and is lungs also our preferring here in some power, has been so full of lonely sharks. We we sharks offering credits also to people in that in excluded from access for more credit

298
00:51:01.560 --> 00:51:11.049
Fernanda de Gobbi: So these pictures are some from low in sharks that they make and just reboot in the street.

299
00:51:11.100 --> 00:51:23.729
Fernanda de Gobbi: And sometimes we have the fantasy vision of the lonely shark. that's very similar to the vision that we have of a figure it figure of the criminals

300
00:51:23.780 --> 00:51:38.999
Fernanda de Gobbi: that lives in the underground, in the part of a world, on the darkness, which is a vision that actually demonstrates even today. I like of the understanding of the economy in the popular world.

301
00:51:39.170 --> 00:51:48.959
Fernanda de Gobbi: because actually, it's in the contrary. And I think that we can twitch the economy in the popular world as a place where we can see fragments

302
00:51:49.050 --> 00:52:03.479
Fernanda de Gobbi: so to do in it. Now we're free on lowing, sharking seems relevant to me, because everything that you both is this practice is very mobile and secretly between several fragments of what I'm calling the popular economy award.

303
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:06.519
Fernanda de Gobbi: if you can switch again.

304
00:52:06.910 --> 00:52:16.529
Fernanda de Gobbi: please. Thank you. So so social scientist points that the exist existence of Lumi shark

305
00:52:16.550 --> 00:52:20.260
Fernanda de Gobbi: alone low in sharks like this from

306
00:52:20.390 --> 00:52:24.360
Fernanda de Gobbi: sorry I can this before then the formal credit you resume

307
00:52:24.390 --> 00:52:27.290
Fernanda de Gobbi: So into the fifties. Here

308
00:52:27.730 --> 00:52:45.550
Fernanda de Gobbi: the formal credit was restricted to businessman. So a common consumer or a private person, to use the Louis Sharks words. They didn't have access to former credit, and they had to rely on 3 days to get to get credit and money

309
00:52:45.590 --> 00:52:48.610
Fernanda de Gobbi: and

310
00:52:48.660 --> 00:53:02.919
Fernanda de Gobbi: the low in sharks even nowadays they called in self as traders is to. So I am in starting from a, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this it's

311
00:53:03.020 --> 00:53:10.619
Fernanda de Gobbi: that distance itself from the legal characterization of crime in the discriminatory and moral dimension.

312
00:53:10.630 --> 00:53:21.490
Fernanda de Gobbi:  and for the long shark to continue to exist and to be so important in present he needs to be noble, no, and respected.

313
00:53:21.540 --> 00:53:28.919
Fernanda de Gobbi: which is the loan shark need to build a owner in the reputation in the street.

314
00:53:29.030 --> 00:53:35.709
Fernanda de Gobbi: and these are key resources to make it very sharply happen.

315
00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:43.890
Fernanda de Gobbi: and to be no low and respected. The lowering shacks need to be always out there with money on the streets circulating.

316
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:54.319
Fernanda de Gobbi: and this circulation Both of the lonely shark and of his money are among the the city. Gavin is the maintenance of the network of rose schemes in the Us.

317
00:53:54.490 --> 00:53:57.110
Fernanda de Gobbi: Which I am working now on my

318
00:53:57.260 --> 00:54:15.789
Fernanda de Gobbi:  in the participation of the lonely shark in his activities. in formal, any illegal activities. Not only the only shark confers the necessarily legitimacy to the figure of blowing shark as someone to be respected.

319
00:54:15.930 --> 00:54:19.990
Fernanda de Gobbi: or someone that nobody can message with.

320
00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:32.630
Fernanda de Gobbi: So it's not possible to. But slowly shark, we felt having a very things network and honor, respect. and to be well known in the street

321
00:54:32.690 --> 00:54:34.840
Fernanda de Gobbi: if you can switch again.

322
00:54:35.020 --> 00:54:35.860
Fernanda de Gobbi: At least.

323
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:43.039
Fernanda de Gobbi: So now I fall back from my research hypothesis.

324
00:54:43.050 --> 00:55:02.550
Fernanda de Gobbi: which will consider it. Consider that lonely sharky is composed of the network in ajection of the of the unknown, shocks themselves. The natural work is the protection network. To ensure is to ensure the effect of the call is which collections are all or the the charges.

325
00:55:02.590 --> 00:55:17.669
Fernanda de Gobbi: and also the network of mob mobilization, material and simple symbolical resources to ensure the informal, illegal function of the business in the network of clients which makes the clash, the cash flows?

326
00:55:18.390 --> 00:55:20.349
Fernanda de Gobbi: And can you switch again?

327
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:36.049
Fernanda de Gobbi: Please? Thank you. So it's starting from these hypotheses. It can be set that the relationship of the low in shark with this network of protection, resources and clients will define who will access the credit

328
00:55:36.170 --> 00:55:39.089
Fernanda de Gobbi: what the guarantees will be or not.

329
00:55:39.240 --> 00:55:44.430
Fernanda de Gobbi: How interesting would you calculate it and recalculate it.

330
00:55:44.490 --> 00:55:51.009
Fernanda de Gobbi: What will be the period of tolerance of that before the charges, our collections?

331
00:55:51.030 --> 00:56:02.530
Fernanda de Gobbi: Finally, what are the limits of the use, or to it, or the threat of the use of the violence in the debt collection.  can you

332
00:56:02.750 --> 00:56:04.470
Fernanda de Gobbi: please again? Switch?

333
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:13.440
Fernanda de Gobbi: Thank you. So that is they. They say it's all about knowing the place

334
00:56:13.710 --> 00:56:21.909
Fernanda de Gobbi: in how the clients we are including are not on this loan shark network.

335
00:56:21.930 --> 00:56:26.970
Fernanda de Gobbi: Let's re, but so this is, we will.

336
00:56:26.980 --> 00:56:31.729
Fernanda de Gobbi: This is what we will define the conditions of the loans contracted.

337
00:56:31.890 --> 00:56:38.130
Fernanda de Gobbi: So this system produces not only economic relations, but also moral

338
00:56:38.180 --> 00:56:51.139
Fernanda de Gobbi: and relations. because it's dealing with at the Regenius economic agencies who are constantly constantly negotiating and evaluating averages and domains.

339
00:56:51.290 --> 00:57:01.780
Fernanda de Gobbi: So they are network that are constantly circulating but it is also they are also in moment all the time.

340
00:57:02.500 --> 00:57:22.600
Fernanda de Gobbi: So besides this money, mobile, mobilized in the loan. The lowest circulation. The Brex of popular loan shark is the point of connection between the money circulating through illegal and illegal market for more than a formal market, central markets, and also marginal markets.

341
00:57:22.700 --> 00:57:32.320
Fernanda de Gobbi: in all this, all this negotiation, this money circulating is happening in the day on the street

342
00:57:32.410 --> 00:57:42.730
Fernanda de Gobbi: on in the bakeries and the small bars in the small restaurants, and also in their own houses. if you can. So it again, please.

343
00:57:45.580 --> 00:57:48.119
Fernanda de Gobbi: Thank you.

344
00:57:48.220 --> 00:58:00.170
Fernanda de Gobbi: So money from the looming sharks can be mobilized for for someone to set a completely formal business or to monthly a business also.

345
00:58:00.260 --> 00:58:10.769
Fernanda de Gobbi: which marker more. It will also have any more in this current context, but can also be mobilized to criminal to buy again, for example.

346
00:58:11.370 --> 00:58:17.539
Fernanda de Gobbi: or to someone to pay a formal loan in the bank also happens a lot.

347
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:27.919
Fernanda de Gobbi:  and it's not only the long shark money circulates. What's the blow in shark himself into a circulation this spaces

348
00:58:27.970 --> 00:58:38.550
Fernanda de Gobbi: on this context and making up the network of the time because they use to say that people who are on the street and used to the market

349
00:58:38.610 --> 00:58:45.790
Fernanda de Gobbi: nation of you. and you yourself need to be used to the market, into the street.

350
00:58:46.010 --> 00:58:47.510
Fernanda de Gobbi: to the money street.

351
00:58:47.660 --> 00:58:52.120
Fernanda de Gobbi: So, according to them. Those are

352
00:58:52.330 --> 00:58:57.750
Fernanda de Gobbi: those If you are in the market, it's the worst

353
00:58:57.910 --> 00:59:06.220
Fernanda de Gobbi: repeating. If you are in the market, you need to contribute all the audiences interest so.

354
00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:25.670
Fernanda de Gobbi: and this only distress in this alliance. It can only be built through the network of relationships that allow allow you to constraint, so construct alliance between the members of the networks and the the on loan sharks always

355
00:59:30.200 --> 00:59:39.459
Fernanda de Gobbi: trying to get multiple benefits and interest interests between all of them. Not only the

356
00:59:39.550 --> 00:59:41.310
Fernanda de Gobbi: members of the network.

357
00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:44.669
Fernanda de Gobbi: so can you switch

358
00:59:44.780 --> 00:59:45.950
Fernanda de Gobbi: one more time.

359
00:59:48.040 --> 00:59:49.050
Fernanda de Gobbi: Thank you.

360
00:59:49.180 --> 01:00:02.720
Fernanda de Gobbi: Mit Ctl, and so in this sinks protection, resource, mobilization. In building of owner reputation interests are not only the artificer arch fishes required only by the loan sharks, but also one

361
01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:20.859
Fernanda de Gobbi: The other members of the network are also requiring the same resources. So it's a double exchange relation, not necessarily linear in planes, but social relations of circulation. I'm using the jungle Ari concept here.

362
01:00:20.930 --> 01:00:22.610
Fernanda de Gobbi: So

363
01:00:22.860 --> 01:00:36.079
Fernanda de Gobbi: the money is echoing from the neighbor's house to the drug dealer's house, from the beauty as salon to the card as mentally makes possible the construction in the constant maintenance of the lonely sharks. Network 2.

364
01:00:36.340 --> 01:00:38.060
Fernanda de Gobbi: And can you

365
01:00:38.120 --> 01:00:41.189
Fernanda de Gobbi: switch again, please? I think it's the last one.

366
01:00:43.140 --> 01:00:46.580
So there are no more. No, okay, that okay.

367
01:00:46.870 --> 01:01:05.049
Fernanda de Gobbi: no problem. And I deal with this concept of network from Monoe Castle and circulation from Heiberg. as a interpretive key to consider that the relations established during the circulation of the Lumi shark in the lower sharks. Money

368
01:01:05.050 --> 01:01:22.829
Fernanda de Gobbi: in these networks are no vertical relationships that they don't of the single common or E hierarchy, but they they are relationships based on with the procedures supported by mutual interest, and

369
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:28.470
Fernanda de Gobbi: that are always being negotiated and renegotiated.

370
01:01:28.750 --> 01:01:32.179
Fernanda de Gobbi: And that's it for now, thank you.

371
01:01:36.990 --> 01:01:39.080
Fernanda de Gobbi: Thank you for

372
01:01:39.150 --> 01:01:44.139
all right. Thank you. So we have a pre recorded.

373
01:01:45.350 --> 01:01:46.469
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: here. Yeah.

374
01:01:46.820 --> 01:01:48.570
presentation.

375
01:01:48.630 --> 01:01:52.350
And we've had some trouble with the sound.

376
01:01:54.100 --> 01:01:54.840
Wait.

377
01:02:01.790 --> 01:02:04.360
Emani, everyone. My

378
01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:06.469
okay,

379
01:02:06.720 --> 01:02:14.209
we're not sure if the Zoom participants will be able to hear this. But we're going to to play this now

380
01:02:15.470 --> 01:02:16.500
M. Fatih Karakaya: you're hearing

381
01:02:19.810 --> 01:02:30.760
it is Peter. Yeah, I'm from Thailand. This is my first time to join the National Conference. I'm going into my second year of Cba.

382
01:02:30.770 --> 01:02:44.539
I currently move from Metro University to University of Tyrannos. I have been working in the real estate industry for over 20 years.

383
01:02:44.900 --> 01:03:13.440
Actually, I I came from Bangkok and moved to Shiman. the notting part of Thailand. That's why my interest is about where Internet marketing in different locations, especially condominial markets. So today I would like to consider styling to purchase new customer, Jeremy Murphy on rollers under milking Thailand

384
01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:31.100
real estate. Development is the one industry which, developing Thailand economy. especially the major provinces in Thailand, such as Shen, my Chugoli, Rayon, and Kukay.

385
01:03:31.300 --> 01:03:49.319
As a result of capital expansion. You can see there are increasing of condominium construction from 2,008 to 2,019 etc., still lost our condominium demand of this major process.

386
01:03:50.920 --> 01:04:17.380
On the right hand side you can see the graph chat of the total supply and remaining unit for that on the green and oranges, one and 20 in 2020 to 2021, during Co. Week period, still too high but low presentation of foreign transfer unit.

387
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:34.729
the blue ones. Another reason why I concentrate on kind of India market, because by law allows the foreigner can own 49% of entire means with our condominium.

388
01:04:35.110 --> 01:04:47.340
just condominium, not a house. a Chinese language as top condominium burials in Thailand. Similarly, to sh my as well.

389
01:04:50.590 --> 01:05:02.180
This is there as you might map downtown, which showed the existing low-rise condominium they offer, such as

390
01:05:02.190 --> 01:05:16.789
the next condominium, one press, condominium, low, Shamani, condominiums, and high condo. So there are many many low-rise condominium developers so far

391
01:05:16.990 --> 01:05:33.050
to describe the rise. Condominium is a building which is not higher than 23 meters. As everyone know that we are offensive of economic downturn doing

392
01:05:33.220 --> 01:05:44.940
Kuwait panemic. She might as well a condor market to the down to 50%. However, during that time

393
01:05:44.990 --> 01:05:53.110
people still. So to buy a condominium for studio and one bedroom, price

394
01:05:54.300 --> 01:06:01.800
43,000 to 86,000 Australia dollar. So

395
01:06:02.930 --> 01:06:16.180
I selected a low-rise condominium care study, a brand new one in Germany, who successfully saw out the first vortex, first one

396
01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:20.390
at Proc. 8.2

397
01:06:21.610 --> 01:06:37.809
name high condo. a lot by Highlight Development Company. This is The eighth story building just Only 2 min to super highway, avoid

398
01:06:38.180 --> 01:06:54.999
and ready to move in the office to the or in one bedroom time. and the price from 65,000 to 160, 62,000. $7!

399
01:06:56.640 --> 01:07:00.990
How did this comedy become a successful?

400
01:07:02.310 --> 01:07:15.310
This proposed of this paper is to create the new customer gene mapping on the rise, condominium in chamber through cash on the characteristic

401
01:07:16.020 --> 01:07:28.259
generation. and 3 stages of fire journey which are preachers, process and false pressures.

402
01:07:28.820 --> 01:07:41.089
This study is an explanatory cognitive team approach to eczemen individual aspirin of tondor variables from their precious journey.

403
01:07:41.810 --> 01:07:58.820
There are 10 key implements, 8 people who bought a condo immediately after kind of moving. and 2 people who bought condominium more than one guinea from April to October last year

404
01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:02.980
at one customer, characteristic.

405
01:08:04.130 --> 01:08:17.120
mostly female, are age between 25 to 35 years old. single visitor. and in modern

406
01:08:17.130 --> 01:08:39.819
43,000 Us. 1 billion dollars a year most of them purchase one unit, both studio and one bedroom type, but their opera signs are unique, is 29 m², so they can uproot more than 60,

407
01:08:40.480 --> 01:08:43.739
5,000, a billion dollars per unit.

408
01:08:45.410 --> 01:09:00.519
And maybe I'll be the. This project from friend Rafael sells and property agent. Fill out them. No new from social media, Facebook and Tiktok.

409
01:09:00.650 --> 01:09:05.419
80% of them bought for our first home living

410
01:09:07.790 --> 01:09:18.179
methodology. Many Canadian research papers in Thailand were using one big pit in my dog. So I would like to

411
01:09:18.230 --> 01:09:36.549
the out how their precious journey. by using for gas scope into you with the thermal analysis. I also tested the question with 3 volunteers to shape reliability.

412
01:09:37.490 --> 01:09:49.890
The folk had come into be over held in 2 days in a row. If you got it for 3 h. Here are the sample question.

413
01:09:50.150 --> 01:10:01.059
what is the primary consideration after we're sitting approaching? What is the main difference between this and audio projects?

414
01:10:01.660 --> 01:10:14.079
What purchasing experience do you have with this condo? And are there any suggestion you want to give to the management of this condo.

415
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:34.040
and had 3 result of look at good in to him. If you are purchasing a unique 6 in 10 kind of buyer, look for reasonable price with quality decided.

416
01:10:35.240 --> 01:10:43.440
and in 10 condolences that the information through friend recommendation.

417
01:10:44.820 --> 01:10:53.769
6 in 10 barrier e. One with a prayer where you material and self-service satisfaction.

418
01:10:55.020 --> 01:11:09.839
Then they decided to purchase after visiting the Schrodinger. even though they were satisfied with the unit, but still shape and compare David with their friend.

419
01:11:11.450 --> 01:11:23.980
And the last part 3 is to understand what they were facing each state of Persia's journey. What are they suggestion?

420
01:11:24.110 --> 01:11:35.330
Many of them had positive attitude toward buying this kind of. for example. precious what this

421
01:11:35.570 --> 01:11:44.270
cells constantly update information promotion in financial service.

422
01:11:45.380 --> 01:11:57.240
even though they a thousand, they break when buying, but still handle with this set to Asian Ber. Well. that make them satisfy.

423
01:11:58.910 --> 01:12:12.379
Finally. they also request to speed up cond office to, and facility construction, and at this school, when they vary more, you need infest to

424
01:12:13.310 --> 01:12:25.340
all right. The this study I created, the new customer journey mapping 7 step. for we push this

425
01:12:25.470 --> 01:12:41.680
process developing. I can do a little bit. Lay out the studio type, a 20 ninth grade meter and a price not over 82,000 a million dollars. Sickly

426
01:12:41.960 --> 01:13:04.200
Mapping Trust and indirection points especially for him get, bring her early, classifying the characteristic who played a significant role as a generation, one single and studying their occupation, background, and income.

427
01:13:04.690 --> 01:13:18.039
and then, lastly. using that to recognize and which more specific target to online media. Then for the purchase.

428
01:13:18.120 --> 01:13:37.760
What says The first one is measuring the string and weness of their experience, for example, affordable pricing what the money and next is quantifying the cost benefit, and on my pitfall

429
01:13:37.990 --> 01:13:57.380
also sales and nice children. It influence, customer decision, and the last post-pressure process implementing customer journey, for example, considering that requests for product and civic development

430
01:13:58.940 --> 01:14:11.959
to this cost customer characteristic in Thailand generation who, I represent their latest consumer, go and there to spend up to 80% of their income.

431
01:14:12.040 --> 01:14:30.689
They don't watch into marish. And still for a condo studio and on their own time. It is consistent with the research of their important marketing decision to purchase a high-rise community in bank of

432
01:14:30.780 --> 01:14:49.010
but different gender. mostly deadline target, were males who have higher education and work in Bangkok. But it's very, very traffic jam in their hometown. Also nearby Bangkok.

433
01:14:49.950 --> 01:14:57.970
However, the brand new developer. So I, this project in my after coming

434
01:14:59.130 --> 01:15:14.170
close the country. So The marketer should study the local characteristic and economic situation to ensure at the right time before launching the projects.

435
01:15:14.220 --> 01:15:31.540
Next category experience. It is important that a local work of mount is run on local precious decisions, especially for the brand new, the lobbying in our country, however.

436
01:15:31.680 --> 01:15:42.899
the study of invent of corporate brand possibility on marine decision process of residential condominium in Vancouver.

437
01:15:44.580 --> 01:15:55.980
Most Bangkok barrier exposed to online year when making decisions with the price 130,000 to

438
01:15:56.080 --> 01:16:12.330
to 220,000. So the marketers should be aware of the media budget and pricing of Condominium in different areas

439
01:16:14.370 --> 01:16:28.680
more over it. The study of Gen. X. And general precision in Thailand nominium through other marketing of communication. In the same way of this study

440
01:16:28.990 --> 01:16:39.900
some barriers approach, project information through Facebook title, Vishka, Appala, Media in Thailand right now.

441
01:16:40.250 --> 01:16:53.649
and the last Cassbra precious journey. Although the study of generation why will call by you have similar characteristic to my fault, barrier

442
01:16:54.030 --> 01:17:08.760
some octage point and primary consideration. Our customer journey are different, that they consider location, promotion, and unique type design

443
01:17:08.990 --> 01:17:26.059
which contrast to shen my wire that forecasts on price product and for motion. which, corresponding to the study of Chinese precious distribution of condominium in Bangkok.

444
01:17:27.180 --> 01:17:42.980
therefore, the developer should consider those factor based on different location. Finally, when customer owned a condominium unit. They still examine the quality of their product.

445
01:17:43.320 --> 01:17:54.600
Compare to the price. The situation price is a significant factor for consumer evaluation.

446
01:17:54.730 --> 01:18:05.700
Also serving quality is an initial vector debt effect, others, including trust and satisfaction.

447
01:18:05.730 --> 01:18:17.779
which contribute positively to the customer loyalty. This study is limited to some example in the.

448
01:18:18.290 --> 01:18:32.540
and we will send it to other major purposes. The subway monitor is the regional for the press in God of the Taiwan estate. Octopus.

449
01:18:32.900 --> 01:18:35.100
Thank you for your attention.

450
01:18:45.490 --> 01:18:57.999
So much for that. So now we have some time for questions. you can type it in the chat if you'd like

451
01:18:58.060 --> 01:18:59.380
But

452
01:18:59.670 --> 01:19:09.309
you can also people on zoom, if you want, you can also just say your questions. but we also have audience members. If you can come up to the microphone.

453
01:19:10.100 --> 01:19:12.089
That would be great.

454
01:19:14.110 --> 01:19:16.020
Oh, yeah.

455
01:19:18.250 --> 01:19:24.219
yeah. Okay. Hello. Can you hear me online? Yes.

456
01:19:24.440 --> 01:19:38.110
thank you very much. This was a very interesting session. I would like to ask a question to the first paper and the Swedish colleagues about a debt, and I'm thinking about the idea of futures, and you brought it up.

457
01:19:38.220 --> 01:19:44.980
I think, as you say, they imagine their futures free of debt.

458
01:19:45.080 --> 01:20:04.370
a a. A some sort of a aspirational idea of the future, of what they want to happen. But my question is, 2 questions to related to that first, a little bit more context for these participants. And, second and more important.

459
01:20:04.370 --> 01:20:25.979
do these participants put a in practice any strategy to see themselves free of debt or just the the the quote are free of. That is just almost like a wishful thinking. The point being is, are they starting? I do. They have a stable job. I think that matters in terms of how debt

460
01:20:26.050 --> 01:20:48.499
can impact the the participants in terms of what your a great theorization of how time is constrained, and how even their subjectivities and what is possible for life is shaped by date. So if you can provide a little bit more context on, and that kind of idea of Imagine's futures. Time to debt. Thank you very much.

461
01:20:50.950 --> 01:21:02.419
Tobias Davidsson: Thank you so much. That's that's an excellent question. Should we start by saying a little bit about the participants. We are 18 of them, and we're interviewing them

462
01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:04.470
Tobias Davidsson: 3 times.

463
01:21:04.610 --> 01:21:15.810
Tobias Davidsson: we would be here in between. And we they are between 18 and 25 years old, and the reason for their indebtedness varies.

464
01:21:15.920 --> 01:21:25.780
Tobias Davidsson: This presentation focused upon participants who who who were in depth it through consumer credit.

465
01:21:25.830 --> 01:21:36.239
Tobias Davidsson: but we also have a you know, a a couple of participants that, for example, got indebted through fines or

466
01:21:36.280 --> 01:21:46.109
Tobias Davidsson: from being swindled. and we we got access to them through the Swedish Enforcement authority.

467
01:21:46.190 --> 01:21:52.790
Tobias Davidsson: They have large amounts of of depth, every one of them that we interviewed.

468
01:21:52.940 --> 01:21:57.820
Tobias Davidsson: But Was it something more about the participants. You

469
01:21:58.740 --> 01:21:59.560
then?

470
01:22:00.010 --> 01:22:24.999
Yes, in the sense that their class position will matter because somebody might contract it. But then I can comes from a middle class background on our privilege background, as the family support we know in the in the journey to out of the of of young people. The class positions matter in the sense of a the sort of a backup that they have from the family

471
01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:35.210
put it that way socially, economic as the State retreats more, which I think is probably the case also. In Sweden you can correct me. The family becomes that last refuge

472
01:22:35.210 --> 01:22:46.660
for young people either to fall behind or be left behind, or continue on on the track of I don't know, earning a degree, and late, and maybe 5 years down the track, getting that permanent job and so forth.

473
01:22:46.840 --> 01:23:06.649
Tobias Davidsson: Yes, and on that note that relates to your second question, it's various also class positions. most of our interviews come from like a background of social problems in in like different degrees.

474
01:23:06.700 --> 01:23:13.040
Tobias Davidsson: but a lot of them come from, you know, working class, or even poorer than that.

475
01:23:13.170 --> 01:23:14.220
Tobias Davidsson: and

476
01:23:14.320 --> 01:23:28.000
Tobias Davidsson: but what relates to their sense of the future? It very, very much depends on what you you are saying. If they have a job, or if they soon have a degree, or if they have a degree.

477
01:23:28.150 --> 01:23:43.900
Tobias Davidsson: also their sense of being included or excluded in a more general sense in society, but also depends very much on how integrated they are, for example, into the job market.

478
01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:48.699
Tobias Davidsson: And. Eric, would you like to add something to that.

479
01:23:49.370 --> 01:23:53.960
Erik Eriksson: Yeah, I can just say that the cosmic strategies you could see that.

480
01:23:54.120 --> 01:24:03.550
Erik Eriksson: I mean, I think that the more than half of the interviews actually do have jobs and and and the permanent jobs as well. So

481
01:24:03.610 --> 01:24:10.390
Erik Eriksson: the schedule strategies basically just to keep on working and and try to to

482
01:24:10.420 --> 01:24:34.119
Erik Eriksson: pay up, pay off the debts. But since the depths are so high they have difficulties, even if they they are being invicted, so to say, much of their pay goes directly to the to the creditors. But But even so, because they they have usually quite the low paid jobs.

483
01:24:34.170 --> 01:24:39.660
Erik Eriksson: the the, the the amount of the depths they they

484
01:24:39.910 --> 01:25:01.240
Erik Eriksson: They almost don't sync at all, or just in a quite or very, very slow pace re become reduced. So so this strategy, even if the said this to to work and pay off it's it's quite a a slow strategy, and I can also say just one more thing about that, and that is that

485
01:25:01.370 --> 01:25:21.160
Erik Eriksson: concerning being debt 3 free, I think also, the notion of being debt 3. Free is a notion of being free from depth to this. a credit companies, but a lot of them, or some of them at least.

486
01:25:21.260 --> 01:25:28.719
Erik Eriksson: they can have the possibility to, perhaps borrow money from their parents, and so on to pay up to pay off the the

487
01:25:29.290 --> 01:25:47.679
Erik Eriksson: the loaning companies, but then they are still in depth, but from their perspective that is same thing as being in depth, so to say. because if you have a private private loans and and that to your family, and so on, that that's perceived in another way.

488
01:25:48.730 --> 01:26:08.349
Tobias Davidsson: can I just add something about labor and the the job market. But one interesting thing that we have noticed is that the interview is who do have a job. We become very fettered to their job. We're very afraid to

489
01:26:08.440 --> 01:26:15.820
Tobias Davidsson: to change a job, or even, you know, start to at university, because they are so

490
01:26:15.890 --> 01:26:20.099
Tobias Davidsson: dependent on their income survey.

491
01:26:20.720 --> 01:26:29.459
Tobias Davidsson: So we often work very much over time, and they are not, you know, as free as as some others

492
01:26:29.600 --> 01:26:35.950
Tobias Davidsson: to to, you know. Search out new avenues on on the job market.

493
01:26:37.180 --> 01:27:02.680
Thank you. That answers my question, and particularly the fact that you are dealing what it seems to me, with middle class. participants. So you're not dealing with participants at the seams of society, or marginalized that you will expect that the future becomes bleak, and so on, so that, in my in my view, makes it more problematic that we are talking about people with resources that are feeling this kind of entrapment. I'll stop here not to occupy more times. Thank you so much.

494
01:27:03.280 --> 01:27:13.740
All right, we have a we have 2 questions. So first, we're going to go with one on Zoom, and then we'll we'll go back to the audience. Kalpesh. Did you want to to ask your question.

495
01:27:17.270 --> 01:27:25.370
kalpesh Chauhan: So thank you. My name is shellfish. I am a psi student. I'll take on her in India. So my question is to Eric.

496
01:27:25.670 --> 01:27:38.430
kalpesh Chauhan: the question, like, the paper is really fantastic, like, you are talking about temporal perspective. And in India I was just like to share an incident. And then, come to the question. So like in India.

497
01:27:38.530 --> 01:28:06.880
kalpesh Chauhan: So there is this growing phenomenon of online loan apps. So where Some of the youths are taking loans from the app, and then they keep on taking, and they keep on renewing till the time they reach to the next sooner, and then they are not able to repay. And then the different loan collectors come and force them to repay the loan they form the you know what sub groups to pressurize them. They also use some social contacts to make them repet the loan, and at the end I have seen that some of them come into suicide.

498
01:28:06.880 --> 01:28:09.799
kalpesh Chauhan: Now, my question is

499
01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:17.200
kalpesh Chauhan: so rather than like in in your paper. You are saying that they want to be dead free. But before that

500
01:28:17.240 --> 01:28:38.429
kalpesh Chauhan: I wanted to know. How do they look at the time that they are getting when they take the first loan or second loan. How do they look at the time? and what are the networks that allows them to be part of such a practice of taking the loans, because in my case, like in in the field in India, what I'm seeing is that

501
01:28:38.550 --> 01:28:54.900
kalpesh Chauhan: you take the loan initiative, because, you know, somebody has taken the loan, but when a as you take more loans, you become isolated, and then you keep on taking the loan. So how? In what? What is your findings? From your from your field?

502
01:28:55.200 --> 01:29:01.609
kalpesh Chauhan: I'll also add another question for the second presenter. if I'm correctly pronounced in the name.

503
01:29:01.810 --> 01:29:04.169
kalpesh Chauhan: So the question is.

504
01:29:04.180 --> 01:29:07.119
kalpesh Chauhan: when this?

505
01:29:09.080 --> 01:29:13.280
kalpesh Chauhan: when this companies sell to the asset management companies, this loans.

506
01:29:13.330 --> 01:29:22.570
kalpesh Chauhan: how did the bank sales. We went to the similar type of low income. Is there any change in the way in which they interact with the similar type of borrowers

507
01:29:22.890 --> 01:29:31.239
kalpesh Chauhan: And how? What about that great, what you know, and the ways in which different digital finance and technologies, such as credit so that they use. And that's the 2 question.

508
01:29:31.410 --> 01:29:32.139
kalpesh Chauhan: Thank you.

509
01:29:34.680 --> 01:29:47.930
Erik Eriksson: Thank you. I I am starting to answer the first question how they how the the young adults look at time when they when they get into that. I think that

510
01:29:47.930 --> 01:30:09.009
Erik Eriksson: Most of them believe or or assume that they are going to be able to pay the depths quite fast as well, because it's the best process to get into that. And they also, when they are in that face, so to say, they also they they assume that they are going to just have, take a small loan and then pay it off fast, so to say so

511
01:30:09.010 --> 01:30:20.289
Erik Eriksson: when they look at time in that specific face they they also think about the the repayment as a fast process. I would say, What was the second question?

512
01:30:24.940 --> 01:30:42.199
kalpesh Chauhan: So the second question was about the networks like, for instance, how one starts taking the loan from? Where do they get the information what networks are become very crucial. to know that. Okay, this is the source from where I can take the information, for in my case the educational networks becomes very much solution.

513
01:30:43.150 --> 01:30:57.240
Tobias Davidsson: The the the ideal trait trajectory for for these interviews is that they are using, you know, by now pay later services. And they have like.

514
01:30:57.440 --> 01:31:00.519
Tobias Davidsson: buying like

515
01:31:00.730 --> 01:31:07.469
Tobias Davidsson: very cheap stuff from online. And then, you know, defer the the payment.

516
01:31:07.550 --> 01:31:29.599
Tobias Davidsson: And then something happens in their lives. They lose their job or they become sick, and then they, you know, apply for the instant loans, and at least in Sweden. Everyone knows about these instant loans. They are marketed like everywhere, and they especially target people who have, you know, economic problems through algorithms and and such.

517
01:31:29.630 --> 01:31:38.580
Tobias Davidsson: sometimes they have heard, you know, a friend or a colleague who I have used these services. but

518
01:31:39.010 --> 01:31:40.770
Tobias Davidsson: mostly very lucky, that

519
01:31:40.990 --> 01:32:10.399
Tobias Davidsson: quite desperate situation when they because, like the the the in. In. In the political discourse about this problem. they often talk about that. This is like a cognitive issue. They do not know how this works, how this a loan market operates. a. And but but that's not true. They do know. They do know that these are bad loans, but they are in the desperate situation, and I also like to add that

520
01:32:10.500 --> 01:32:22.790
Tobias Davidsson: everyone is not middle class. We have like people who are quite well off and never been attached to the job market. So it varies in our our population.

521
01:32:24.090 --> 01:32:45.000
M. Fatih Karakaya: Yeah, thank you very much for the question. Accomplish. as far as I understand clearly, you are asking the the, the how the banks are selling the these loans to the asset management companies, as you can see from this

522
01:32:45.120 --> 01:33:12.210
M. Fatih Karakaya: slide. Actually, there, there are bunch. These are the package of non-performing. Well, so it it it includes, both consumer credits and corporate credits. Commercial credits. So, but more or less the the the consumer credit, which are mostly unsecured laws, mostly from personal loans and credit card loans.

523
01:33:12.270 --> 01:33:38.190
M. Fatih Karakaya: it. It. It is more or less half of the of of this sales sales package. So banks are trying to get rid of this toxic assets in the balance sheet to be able to not, you know, hold the reserve for this non-performing loans and try to operate effectively with their

524
01:33:38.370 --> 01:33:42.009
M. Fatih Karakaya: financial capabilities. So

525
01:33:42.260 --> 01:33:44.929
M. Fatih Karakaya: this is kind of

526
01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:49.279
M. Fatih Karakaya: I I don't know if it's As for for your question.

527
01:33:51.110 --> 01:33:54.220
And we have one question from the audience.

528
01:33:55.730 --> 01:34:18.000
Hi! Hello, everyone! I hope I'm audible. my name is Anirud, and I work on finance in South Asia. I had 2 questions which I think are addressed to all the presenters, and all of all of your presentations were wonderful. but the 2 questions are, the first one is

529
01:34:18.000 --> 01:34:28.000
basically with regard to the indexed subjects so from works on finance or behavioral finance. we know that

530
01:34:28.000 --> 01:34:50.589
most indebted subjects are never indebted in any single way, because they have a diverse portfolio in many ways right. They borrow from multiple different sources, often from friends, family, and from various other sources as well. So the first question is, what kind of portfolio management are we seeing from the side of the consumers?

531
01:34:50.660 --> 01:35:01.569
In order to manage their indebtedness or even resist indebtedness. for instance, in the case of India it's very common to use gold

532
01:35:01.710 --> 01:35:26.329
which is holded in many religious circumstances. in order to manage various kinds of situations of indictedness. Right? So, what kinds of portfolios are we seeing from the side of the consumers. rather than from the side of the companies or institutions that are giving out these loans. That's the first the second we is, with regard to

533
01:35:26.550 --> 01:35:51.490
the aspirations of the people who are indebted and uniformly, one could clearly see that there is some kind of a negative association with a debt. There is an aspiration towards indebtedness, as the first paper clearly pointed out, my question to that is, would that not depend on the nature of the macro economy that we are in. For instance.

534
01:35:51.490 --> 01:36:04.680
when the economy does very well, for instance, or when, for example, in the stock market. There is a Bull Run right, and there is a general nature of optimism in the economy.

535
01:36:04.680 --> 01:36:34.369
would there not be a tendency to think of debt as something that's easily manageable, something that is all right, something that is within within your capacity to be managed in some senses. Right. So The attitude to debt. Would you think that that changes with the changing tide of the macro economy? If you are in a recession. The attitude to debt is different, as opposed to when the economy is booming right? So

536
01:36:34.370 --> 01:36:37.460
2 questions to pretty much, all of you. Thank you.

537
01:36:46.980 --> 01:37:03.220
Tobias Davidsson: Is there any one volunteer for for asking about the last question? about how the attitudes to that like from you, I think you mean from from a general social perspective.

538
01:37:03.970 --> 01:37:07.000
Tobias Davidsson: I don't really know. But but

539
01:37:08.170 --> 01:37:18.179
Tobias Davidsson: relating to your first question, that depends on what debt I would say, because at least in Sweden. We have like.

540
01:37:18.440 --> 01:37:22.060
Tobias Davidsson: very like, morally

541
01:37:22.950 --> 01:37:32.250
Tobias Davidsson: clean. That's like more mortgages or student loans. student loans are administer Bobby state in in Sweden.

542
01:37:32.400 --> 01:37:47.459
Tobias Davidsson: but these, you know, consumer credits has, as I'm a regard, regardless of of the economy they're always seen as quite in in quite negative fashion, I would say.

543
01:37:47.680 --> 01:37:51.709
Tobias Davidsson: but that doesn't mean that it's not normalized.

544
01:37:51.740 --> 01:38:09.160
Tobias Davidsson: It's extremely normalized buying things on credit. And I think also that, regardless of the financial situation, I would say, I haven't seen like a huge difference in in the attitudes.

545
01:38:09.170 --> 01:38:11.909
Tobias Davidsson: When we are now in this

546
01:38:11.960 --> 01:38:15.860
Tobias Davidsson: financial crisis, or what what you might call it.

547
01:38:16.970 --> 01:38:25.330
M. Fatih Karakaya: And we may remind all the audience that the the etymological origin of that in Swedish is.

548
01:38:25.330 --> 01:38:52.579
Erik Eriksson: we're similar with scene. And the bad thing. Right? Yeah, yeah, I I should. Just I I I was about to say that because depth in Swedish is a a negatively associated with, but having loans. If you used to what loan instead in Swedish, then that is seem as a normalized and and I mean everybody has loans, of course, but if you're in depth, then you that's more problematic also, in the semantic way in Swedish.

549
01:38:54.720 --> 01:39:00.350
M. Fatih Karakaya: And for the second question I may, I may say, of course, it. It is

550
01:39:00.590 --> 01:39:23.789
M. Fatih Karakaya: related with the macroeconomic situation. That's that's why we have macro credentials, you know, all the authorities. The central banks are tightening, or even using the the, the, the terms, for you know the credit markets. So it is also related with the Macro credentials, as I mentioned in my presentation, and after the pandemic.

551
01:39:23.790 --> 01:39:41.969
M. Fatih Karakaya: the the brsa, the banking regulation is supervising authority. Set the set a very safe environment for banks, both both banks and default daughters, and let them leave

552
01:39:42.030 --> 01:39:49.069
M. Fatih Karakaya: a a little bit in a piece. But after the the effect of pandemic, or, after.

553
01:39:49.670 --> 01:40:04.250
M. Fatih Karakaya: I have to say, stepping up for the post pandemic period. Then they started the tightening the credit market and let Dell's bank sell their Mps to the debt collection for mostly Amcs.

554
01:40:06.000 --> 01:40:13.049
So we have a question for Fernanda. So how did you get access to your field of research? And this coming from Eric?

555
01:40:16.890 --> 01:40:22.670
Fernanda de Gobbi: So I started doing this research. I'm all low in shock when I was doing

556
01:40:23.020 --> 01:40:38.569
Fernanda de Gobbi: research actually about our organization of Islam here in. So so I got to know them on this context. I was doing this research for 2 years, and then I was always there in neighborhood.

557
01:40:38.780 --> 01:40:47.500
Fernanda de Gobbi: and they would know me from this first research in these lowering charts who would circulate between all the markets that I was analyzing.

558
01:40:47.640 --> 01:41:10.110
Fernanda de Gobbi: So I started to focus on lonely shark doing my when I was finishing my bachelors so yes, they would already know me. And doing this this neighborhood specifically. And then I got to know other in lowly sharks on this commercial commercial centers that I put to the image.

559
01:41:10.280 --> 01:41:16.540
Fernanda de Gobbi: and I will know them from local sailors. They would introduce me to this

560
01:41:16.670 --> 01:41:21.949
Fernanda de Gobbi: Louis sharks and I. It was not really difficult to access.

561
01:41:22.020 --> 01:41:31.999
Fernanda de Gobbi: It was more difficult to to keep the contact and to stabilize a relation of

562
01:41:32.310 --> 01:41:35.320
Fernanda de Gobbi: collaboration with it was

563
01:41:35.420 --> 01:41:41.290
Fernanda de Gobbi: not such a big problem, because I would be there doing the other research.

564
01:41:41.730 --> 01:41:45.419
Fernanda de Gobbi: And I would know people who they trust also.

565
01:41:48.000 --> 01:42:16.660
Okay, we have one more question from the audience very quickly. It's me again. I'm Ernan Quebec from the University of Melbourne, and I want to pick up the question that here the person in here, in presence in Melbourne talk about financial and the question of aspirational debt. I think it's very important. It's something that we found here with young people in Melbourne there is a morally right debt, and this is a question not just for the Swedish courage, but also for Fernando and Brazil, fearing Thailand Fati in Turkey, and so on.

566
01:42:16.660 --> 01:42:37.560
For example, getting into the housing market is very hard in in Melbourne. There's a there's a lack of affordable housing, and so on. So for those young adults in their late 20 s. And early 30 s. To to get into the into debt with a mortgage, even regardless if they are support by the parents or not, is is a story of success with their peers.

567
01:42:37.600 --> 01:42:53.909
and there is a story of aspirational debt in the sense. Okay, I put a food in the housing market and so on. And I think that's partly here. What the the colleague mentioned, and I wonder if in Sweden, Brazil, Thailand, Turkey, this happens with young people or young adults.

568
01:42:56.160 --> 01:42:58.950
M. Fatih Karakaya: Absolutely. This is the case in Turkey.

569
01:43:01.200 --> 01:43:20.899
Tobias Davidsson: They've definitely been Sweden as well, and some of our interview is said that when they're depth-free they they really long to get in debt if it will be mortgage, but they they can now. but that's where that is one of their aspirations.

570
01:43:26.880 --> 01:43:28.440
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: yes,

571
01:43:28.610 --> 01:43:41.549
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: in Thailand as well right now. Generation. See the new generation in Thailand is quite different. purchasing behavior in a residential property. They

572
01:43:42.300 --> 01:43:53.459
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: they tends to rent instead of instead of by the condominium right now, because they have.

573
01:43:53.630 --> 01:43:58.190
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: they always change their job. They don't earn much money.

574
01:43:58.350 --> 01:43:59.620
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: So this is.

575
01:43:59.670 --> 01:44:02.399
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: you know, like, is it the the

576
01:44:02.460 --> 01:44:09.829
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit: financial problem right now for the new generation. See that? contrast to the generation, why

577
01:44:10.110 --> 01:44:12.000
Pheeraya Wongsaranuchit:  okay.

578
01:44:14.660 --> 01:44:23.600
Erik Eriksson: I can just add one thing on the regard of the the prior question also connected to this one about how to manage that, and how to

579
01:44:24.310 --> 01:44:37.660
Erik Eriksson: how to like, plan for the future and manage the the depth and and the on that note. I can also say that for our subjects or or our young adults, they they have a a very difficult

580
01:44:37.710 --> 01:44:56.190
Erik Eriksson: time to do do so, because they when they are registered at the Swedish Enforcement Agency, they don't, they they. They can't, for example, have savings. They can't have any any assets at all, because everything goes to pay off the loans. So

581
01:44:56.190 --> 01:45:08.449
Erik Eriksson: they have a really difficult time to actually plan for the future, or or manage in another way in any other way than just to pay all all the money they have to be enforce Enforcement agency.

582
01:45:11.790 --> 01:45:27.120
Tobias Davidsson: And that's kind of ironic, really, because, the mainstream political discourse is all about. These people are not financially responsible. They need. They need to learn to be financially literate

583
01:45:27.160 --> 01:45:37.229
Tobias Davidsson: but they can't really manage themselves through the well, because all of their assets are claimed or ceased.

584
01:45:37.809 --> 01:45:42.170
Tobias Davidsson: So it's kind of an interruption in that aspect as well.

585
01:45:50.280 --> 01:45:56.729
Do we have any any more questions? I think you're muted.

586
01:45:57.330 --> 01:46:02.610
Tobias Davidsson: I I think you wanted to say something from Thailand

587
01:46:06.000 --> 01:46:09.790
M. Fatih Karakaya: or Fernanda from

588
01:46:10.080 --> 01:46:13.240
M. Fatih Karakaya: case for Brazil on the mortgage market.

589
01:46:17.540 --> 01:46:27.090
Fernanda de Gobbi: Something very interesting that's happening now on the housing market in big East team especially in some follow downtown

590
01:46:27.120 --> 01:46:30.920
Fernanda de Gobbi: involving the

591
01:46:31.090 --> 01:46:37.939
Fernanda de Gobbi: companies with Co. Built the Condominium they call the

592
01:46:38.990 --> 01:46:42.810
Fernanda de Gobbi: I don't know if this works the the

593
01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:47.999
Fernanda de Gobbi: did. They like the place to construct, to build the the buildings.

594
01:46:48.040 --> 01:46:52.070
Fernanda de Gobbi: So they

595
01:46:52.709 --> 01:47:06.039
Fernanda de Gobbi: they sell this this apartments in 30 years, and they every year they change the interest. And and these people they cannot pay anymore. And they are usually young.

596
01:47:06.420 --> 01:47:12.750
Fernanda de Gobbi: it also, and they lose the apartment for for the company. And they

597
01:47:12.879 --> 01:47:24.390
Fernanda de Gobbi: there's a part that means the cultural actions in the company by again. And so again. So it's a big, it's came. And yes, it's it's interesting, I was thinking.

598
01:47:30.930 --> 01:47:39.909
well, that's we're basically out of time. but thanks to our presenters, thanks for the questions.

599
01:47:39.969 --> 01:47:41.410
run the

600
01:47:43.440 --> 01:47:44.430
all right

601
01:47:44.980 --> 01:47:45.000
and good night.