WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:00.870 Lara Maestripieri: well, I was just waiting for our organizer. she is online with us now, but she does not react to. So I don't know if she has a technical issue or whatever. But since the other presenters are there, I I will start to the session. 2 00:00:00.870 --> 00:00:17.710 Lara Maestripieri: So this is a a session, a session that is devoted to the professional transformation in public sector, and such a service management friends and challenges between managerial government and Itali and the authoritarian governments. It is a joint session. 3 00:00:18.170 --> 00:00:43.109 Lara Maestripieri: And we are very happy to welcome for presentation today. the first presentation is a welfare in Italian region between fragmentation and management emerging governance model from Naples. So Domenico is presenting here online with us, and we will talk about 4 00:00:43.110 --> 00:00:52.660 Lara Maestripieri: the changes in local welfare system in Italy and the impact of a new regional governance. So started from, now you have 50 min. 5 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:58.170 Domenico Trezza: Okay? Okay? I? I 6 00:00:58.940 --> 00:01:10.930 Domenico Trezza: to to be very, very shortly So I share the screen. Yes, okay. can you? Can you see the slide? 7 00:01:12.890 --> 00:01:14.410 Lara Maestripieri: Perfectly. Thank you. 8 00:01:14.850 --> 00:01:18.260 Domenico Trezza: Okay, so again. 9 00:01:18.260 --> 00:01:45.320 Domenico Trezza: I, I am doing some. And and core of this presentation is to is a reflection about to change the landscape for the local welfare system in Italy and describe the effect of the forms of regional governance on social service. And you know. specifically, I will focus on the case of the company or agent 10 00:01:45.320 --> 00:01:57.099 Domenico Trezza: in the south of Italy, where a a new association of the municipalities for service provision are a emerging and bravely 11 00:01:57.100 --> 00:02:17.350 Domenico Trezza: in New Rob. The management model for social policies is based on multi level of governance. first, the State, which is restful, sub w, which which is a responsible for a planning social funds the second, the level in both regions so directing and the programming of 12 00:02:17.570 --> 00:02:44.469 Domenico Trezza: service and the to the to level typically consists of some of the municipalities responsible responsible for implementing service and the European model experience. we can say a a attention between a coalition elements such as the the the planning of a European social funds and the evaluation tools, and that in the strategies 13 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:59.939 Domenico Trezza: and the for augmentation elements for example, the the the centralization of the responsibility to lege also municipalities and local entities, including the the choice of a organizational structure. 14 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:15.820 Domenico Trezza: and the this is very evident in Italy after many years of was in transit service providing Social policies are now the responsibility of the planning the the, the the service 15 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:41.289 Domenico Trezza: as the the the, the, the the social planning, and the the municipalities united in social territorial areas Italian. And from now Asda integrate and implement integration however, this approach is resulting in significant differentiation with the intense autonomy 16 00:03:41.290 --> 00:03:50.160 Domenico Trezza: which which does not contribute to uniformity of the national welfare system. 17 00:03:50.340 --> 00:03:52.830 Domenico Trezza: and one of the 18 00:03:53.100 --> 00:03:59.820 Domenico Trezza: the, the the the most notable. A dimension or aspect of this fragmentation 19 00:03:59.850 --> 00:04:29.250 Domenico Trezza: is not only the the the presence of the institutional or non-institutional actor as the the the Tif sector but also the the fact that the these institutional actor sd, a. themselves are not equal. in the case of a in this case there are unions over municipalities operating on their lightweight agreements with the 20 00:04:29.250 --> 00:04:30.830 Domenico Trezza: limited autonomy. 21 00:04:31.630 --> 00:04:47.490 Domenico Trezza: however, the Italian law. about the no, about to the the the, the, the the well and those municipalities join in more autonomous and robust forms, such as consortium 22 00:04:47.550 --> 00:04:50.500 Domenico Trezza: or social enterprises. 23 00:04:50.730 --> 00:04:57.490 Domenico Trezza: And in Italy this. So this differentiation is evident. 24 00:04:57.590 --> 00:05:03.950 Domenico Trezza: you know, most of the Italian regions consort. Yeah, are not present. 25 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:08.909 Domenico Trezza: And the this is due to the lack of a national. 26 00:05:08.970 --> 00:05:15.259 Domenico Trezza: We dance or national regulatory framework on them out there. 27 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:24.980 Domenico Trezza: and the consequently there is a front went to the situation where some regions they find directive on them, on the on the 28 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:33.979 Domenico Trezza: modes of modality of association between the municipalities while others leave the municipalities free to pick 29 00:05:34.130 --> 00:05:50.409 Domenico Trezza: any initiative to in in in this regular, and the so the situation in companion in is the capabilities promoting the best new forms of a governance promoting municipalities to participate. 30 00:05:50.500 --> 00:06:17.119 Domenico Trezza: And the this is the central point of of is a part of our our research. by by our initiative exploration, we are seeing that this new forms create better condition to for service implementation. And nevertheless, there are social, political, and the demograph it costs to consider. 31 00:06:17.500 --> 00:06:21.340 Domenico Trezza: So I'll study 32 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:26.210 Domenico Trezza: difference is sdi into 2 categories. 33 00:06:26.390 --> 00:06:50.310 Domenico Trezza: No agreement at the as consisting of a single municipality or conventionally linked municipalities in the consortium area as a, as mentioned, which form consortia or special purpose companies, according to Italian legislation on a local entities, and the many studies have a focused on cooperation among municipalities, and the. 34 00:06:50.310 --> 00:06:56.810 Domenico Trezza: you know, they all conclude that this some cooperation brings benefits to 35 00:06:56.810 --> 00:07:06.400 Domenico Trezza: to service, and however, there is a a, a, a, a a lack of the A or by the in the field over social 36 00:07:06.450 --> 00:07:23.059 Domenico Trezza: and the our analysis relaxed on 3 group of of indicators social, political indicators. So as a a number of source of the Territory as a regional funds for the setting up of the service consortium 37 00:07:23.320 --> 00:07:44.230 Domenico Trezza: demographic imitate of so like sector dependency, and the performance indicate indicators as a stability on on total of human resource and the cost and the distribution of the of service, and or that are 38 00:07:44.230 --> 00:07:57.299 Domenico Trezza: are a a from from data, a service off of that service that a source is is stopped and you know the the social system of of a company. 39 00:07:57.910 --> 00:08:00.020 Domenico Trezza: and the so 40 00:08:00.210 --> 00:08:08.780 Domenico Trezza: out of the of the 59 Sd. In Campania, one fifth. Our formula as consortium 41 00:08:09.110 --> 00:08:35.829 Domenico Trezza: consortium, and this number is increasing as the regional station incentives are grown from nearly €500,000 and in 2,018 to 1 million euros in 2,000 to 20. And when examining the the demographic characteristics we have service significant. Get 42 00:08:35.830 --> 00:08:47.419 Domenico Trezza: between the 2 phones. The Consolidated fully comprised of the municipalities with a significant elderly population. 43 00:08:47.420 --> 00:09:08.669 Domenico Trezza: which probably, in case diverse meets and the necessity it's a specific policies for example, aging policy, or no self sufficiency policies, etc. And the on the other end. when analyzing the 2 platforms, indicators 44 00:09:08.800 --> 00:09:14.299 Domenico Trezza: as a human resource 45 00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:42.189 Domenico Trezza: a significant difference between the the, the, the the 2 forms emerging the consortium, since to up to perform in terms of personality, best of the human resource stabilization with the 6 people in the permanent contracts and the financial sustainability in terms of costs and the service coverage. 46 00:09:42.780 --> 00:10:02.000 Domenico Trezza: and the as we as we have explorer in this little contribution. several factors coming to play and the interact with the type of governance adopted in the welfare system and the these factors 47 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:26.279 Domenico Trezza: could be categorized in so political, demographically social dimension political factors shape the decision making processes and the policies related to what? For management? they influence the level of a centralization or the centralization, the location of the resource and the the regulatory framework 48 00:10:26.560 --> 00:10:30.699 Domenico Trezza: within which social service over it. 49 00:10:31.290 --> 00:10:40.730 Domenico Trezza: then a demographic factors play a a role in determining the 29, this specific me and the challenge of 50 00:10:40.790 --> 00:10:45.719 Domenico Trezza: for this stance areas capitalized correct reside by 51 00:10:46.220 --> 00:10:55.399 Domenico Trezza: by a lot of the small municipalities. And I rate of the elderly population required. probably, as mentioned it. 52 00:10:55.910 --> 00:11:03.029 Domenico Trezza: Taylor on Taylor, a tailored policies and the service such as 53 00:11:03.130 --> 00:11:31.779 Domenico Trezza: the aging policies at and the social factors encompass the collaborative. But I force and the interaction among various stakeholders, including community organizations, and this provider and the beneficial. so we have. we have a observatory performance difference and we, we we see either either performance in social consortium 54 00:11:32.040 --> 00:11:52.060 Domenico Trezza: as and financial system, it sustainability. And the characteristic of a social consortium that could be identified as as a predominantly costing on the smaller municipalities. And 55 00:11:52.080 --> 00:12:14.080 Domenico Trezza: so the the the, the feeding, the the finding of of our study shellite. So on the rolling significance of a embracing managerial approach, we within the intricate, the landscape of the of the Italian welfare system, and the the the same planning performance over social consortia 56 00:12:14.460 --> 00:12:41.109 Domenico Trezza: a a a point or a a a, a a testament to the effectiveness of this approach. And by our analysis, or first analysis we have a We have emphasizes the the importance role player by political demographic social and the performance factor in in shaping the chosen governess model. 57 00:12:41.560 --> 00:12:45.260 Domenico Trezza: And these factors. 58 00:12:45.510 --> 00:13:08.789 Domenico Trezza: exert the influence on the Assembly, in the on the establishment and the functioning of the social consortium. And the as we conclude it is important to a knowledge that, despite the positive of the accounts associated with the the managerial approach, there are still persistent challenge that require all attention 59 00:13:08.790 --> 00:13:21.159 Domenico Trezza: streaking that they keep balance between efficiency and the equity, addressing the social inequalities and ensuring the active participation. 60 00:13:21.410 --> 00:13:30.560 Domenico Trezza: It's a remain ongoing test. And so looking looking toward the future. 61 00:13:30.740 --> 00:13:56.360 Domenico Trezza: It is important to to navigate this, to to the action and the challenges with the current by embracing the innovative strategies forcing collaboration among stakeholders and the continually adding to what we need. So we can pave the the, the, the the way for a more inclusive and the effective we for system. 62 00:13:56.380 --> 00:13:57.779 Domenico Trezza: So. 63 00:13:58.070 --> 00:14:00.230 Domenico Trezza: thanks to to all. 64 00:14:01.890 --> 00:14:21.880 Lara Maestripieri: thank you very much, the Venica. Thank you very much. So because you just use the 12 min out to your 15 min. So you were perfect in performance. we will leave a question at the end of the session. But if there is any pound of clarification, or any 65 00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:30.280 Lara Maestripieri: was still a very specific from the public why, I call a to the floor. 66 00:14:30.300 --> 00:14:33.369 Lara Maestripieri: she she's on person in Melbourne 67 00:14:33.540 --> 00:14:37.000 Lara Maestripieri: Domenico can can answer 68 00:14:39.830 --> 00:14:41.720 Lara Maestripieri: welcome, Federica. 69 00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:54.829 Lara Maestripieri: So Federica will present 70 00:14:54.870 --> 00:15:08.610 Lara Maestripieri: very important paper on the sanctionary mechanism controls on the minimum income scheme. If I'm not wrong because she will present the comparison between Italy and France 71 00:15:08.680 --> 00:15:34.889 Lara Maestripieri: the title of a paper is controlling the port. The treatment of benefits reception in Italy and France. So the same for you, for the recap. You have 15 min starting from presentation. I will interrupt you. Okay, so needed, just 5 min before the end of your time, so that you will be 72 00:15:34.890 --> 00:15:39.190 Lara Maestripieri: aware that you have the just 5 min left. Okay. 73 00:15:43.050 --> 00:15:47.430 Lara Maestripieri: we don't hear you because the microphone is off. 74 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:57.810 Volunteer room 203: It is just some mute. Oh, there's some problems 75 00:17:18.190 --> 00:17:24.620 Lara Maestripieri: Do you still hear us from? in person? Do you hear us? 76 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:34.639 Lara Maestripieri: Because if you hear us that we can pass it to the third presentation. Why do you So the technical issue on site 77 00:17:37.800 --> 00:17:43.070 Lara Maestripieri: you, you have to make science because we don't t you. So if it is 78 00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:47.159 okay, now we do. 79 00:17:48.490 --> 00:18:07.059 Yes, if you prefer, we can go with the third, the presentation, and no, no. But if we you, it's not a problem. No, you are okay. So 15 min. Okay, okay, okay, thank you. And hi to everybody. so 80 00:18:07.090 --> 00:18:33.269 starting with my presentation, I wanted to. explain what I mean, with controlling the pool, the control women, the set of bureaucratic and administrative practices aimed at the of the refined recipient status before and during the disbursement of the benefit and the sanction system. In case of non-compliance. We also refer to the monitoring of activities under conditionality and the penalties for non-compliance. 81 00:18:33.270 --> 00:18:54.830 the increase. The increase of this kind of practices is due, and seems to be linked in particular to 2 aspects of the neoliberal social policies. In particular, the new management system. So the valuation system and the criteria of a limitation of expenditure, submission of an content, logic. 82 00:18:54.970 --> 00:19:05.859 and constant evaluation of practices, but also mostly on the focus on the behavior of the recipients that show the big changement 83 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:08.159 from the Kaisiana 84 00:19:08.170 --> 00:19:14.059 focus on labor demand to the focus on the suicide 85 00:19:14.070 --> 00:19:33.879 the increasing controls and sanctions regarding the poor have been analyzed from several outers, and especially in the work Fair, U.S.A. And in and Uk. Work for panorama showing a paradig focused on the, on disciplining and punishing the poor. 86 00:19:34.650 --> 00:19:57.479 to study what's happening in Europe about sanctions on poor. We can observe. first of all a kind of of of of of 87 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:10.669 First of all, I didn't write in the slide the master criteria and the Stability pact that I'm directly pushed the countries to cut the 2. 88 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:19.660 They expenditors on social policies, but mostly the European unemployment strategies that spread the activation paragraph 89 00:20:19.670 --> 00:20:30.210 on the on the unemployment and poor treatment. This new paradigm, based on the 90 00:20:30.250 --> 00:20:33.929 on a strong critic. 91 00:20:33.980 --> 00:20:57.999 on the curative and passive approach stressed out by an international organization like Ocd. And European Commission, linked also to the European Union Charter of Fundamental Rights, specially derived to a social assistance, and for all that lack of su of Sufism resources 92 00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:04.520 spread the use of minimum income policies 93 00:21:04.550 --> 00:21:29.290 that our policies characterized, but very strong means tested, and also conditionalities, and that are referred to the people that Castel called the disaffiliated people. That means all the people that seems to be excluded today from all the contemporary social structures that we can refer to to meet people or long term unemployed. 94 00:21:29.510 --> 00:21:47.450 So to be more fast because I think, I okay, So in in French, Dubo, has done an important study about the implementing of control policies on the poor, and he studied how they From the 19 the nineties 95 00:21:47.450 --> 00:22:01.729 has been developed a real politics on controlling the poor and that has been institutionalized and and based on a political and media attack on the social Freud. 96 00:22:01.750 --> 00:22:22.769 And so a a real, strong control. Politics has been developed and and we can see a boom on control checks based on 3 aspects of the minimum income in France that is called as a revenue the solidarity active. 97 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:31.110 This control is based on one hand, on the very strong criteria of axis of these measures. 98 00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:54.010 and on the other side of the malleability of concept of Freud, that has become really more extensive, and it's difficult to understand when Freud is intentional or unintentional, and also the use of administrative sanctions that has spread during the years also linked to a new one 99 00:22:54.010 --> 00:23:02.000 the materialization of practices and their standardization and the use of technological tools. 100 00:23:02.170 --> 00:23:18.049 Let's have developed these controls toward benefits, recipients. And here we have the the words of one benefit recipients about the feeling of suspicion that they live every day. 101 00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:47.880 And I talked really. just, I say just few words about France, because I wanted to concentrate more on the Italian from work, because in in in Italy the the Italian context is characterized by very few, historically, by very few and short term anti-poverty measures that are characterized by limited amounts, strict and 3 requirements, strong conditionalities, but very few amounts. So the citizenship income 102 00:23:47.880 --> 00:24:08.970 can be considered the real first measure of minimum income, because it has a very expanded the audience of recipients, and by lowering the access criteria, and also the time limits and increase the maximum amount. We, we can see in the 2 images 103 00:24:08.970 --> 00:24:26.809 the difference between the previous measures, the inclusion income, and the citizenship income by watching the difference of amounts of the measures, but also the difference of quantity of recipients of the 2 measures. One 104 00:24:26.930 --> 00:24:52.459 so The citizenship income was also characterized in comparison with the with the other measure of a very rigid system of conditionalities, and also over institute so institutionalization and of the politics of control that are based of a sharing of data 105 00:24:52.460 --> 00:24:59.310 between the different institutions like the financial police or the 106 00:24:59.370 --> 00:25:22.619 the imps, and also the revenue agency. And it's also characterized by a very penalty by new penalties that characterize especially the citizenship income. They they in the ray and the other measures. There were no criminal penalties that have been developed 107 00:25:22.750 --> 00:25:51.750 in this, a specific measure, and this penalties, like the from 2 to 6 years in prison for the use of forgery to for thing, the benefits, but also for maintaining the benefit, are considered very ours, and they have been considered very ours also from the community evaluation and and also by some experts on constitutional law and 108 00:25:51.750 --> 00:26:17.329 what is very important in citizenship income is that the the implementation of this measure due to this very expanded audience on of recipients. has show also. a very strong mediatic and political attack on this measure, and especially on recipients of this measure, stressing out the illegalism of beneficiaries 109 00:26:17.330 --> 00:26:40.219 by constituents by construct constructing a figure that can be compared to the welfare. Queen. that is the rascal, the small rascal of citizenship in the The strong accent of on social Freud seems to have justified. 110 00:26:40.220 --> 00:26:53.159 Many change in this measures during a few years that are vocalized in the side of beneficiaries on a very more deep one. 111 00:26:53.370 --> 00:27:05.800 a rigid system about conditionalities, but also access criteria, but also more sophisticated controls like, for example, the first one. 112 00:27:05.800 --> 00:27:26.289 The the first change meant during the drug you government as character as has been characterized. But an improving on controls. And that's now are based on criteria of algorithmic criteria. So more technological and also used to prevent the one 113 00:27:26.420 --> 00:27:30.209 the Freuds, but also reducing. 114 00:27:30.340 --> 00:27:40.619 Sorry to interrupt you. You still have 5 min. 115 00:27:41.090 --> 00:27:59.300 Okay? maybe we will talk later. But okay. So I've been reduced all the Texas criteria by forbid the access to the benefit to a big number of crimes like robbery, extortion, receiving stolen goods. 116 00:27:59.300 --> 00:28:18.960 money, laundering, use of manning, or goods of the elicited origin, defining a kind of paradox where more vulnerable people cannot access to the benefits. And this this particular aspect I've been stressed out for from all the social workers that I interviewed. 117 00:28:19.140 --> 00:28:46.399 and also the improving controls and What I wanted to stress out in all this presentation was how the forbet of of citizenship. Income is a social construction that can be considered also. focusing on the Freud, on social welfare, like a tool, like a device of a government, a governess, Governa, mentality of people, and this 118 00:28:51.700 --> 00:28:58.230 sorry I lost myself and a. 119 00:28:58.510 --> 00:29:24.819 And despite the image of the citizenship income, a rascal that is considered a lazy man always from the South of Italy. Somebody that doesn't work doesn't want to work, and they take advantage of a government helps. Despite this constructed figure, we have people that are in very vulnerable state. 120 00:29:24.820 --> 00:29:42.059 And, for example, if we consider the improving controls on recipients, we can consider that the mostly part of their aims controls are based on residential criteria, and the mostly part of people that are checked 121 00:29:42.060 --> 00:30:11.850 are people that are migrants, and that are in very vulnerable situation, and don't have access to residential To residents in Italy, because Because it's very complicated to obtain it. So they are in a very precarious situation, and with the implementation of control. They've been asked also to remove all the amounts that they received. 122 00:30:11.860 --> 00:30:19.840 and this to show an example of how this kind of controls on benefits on 123 00:30:19.990 --> 00:30:31.969 recipients of benefit recipients are not actually based on fraud. Big fraud about people that take advantage of the 124 00:30:32.020 --> 00:30:39.279 government health, but more on people of very, very vulnerable states that are always more controlled. 125 00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:51.819 and which illegalism Are really not easy to define, due to this measure of this, this kind of measure, that are based on very strict criteria 126 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:58.590 that are always more strict here I try to to 127 00:30:58.970 --> 00:31:04.669 kind of quantifying the the number of the rascal of 128 00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:33.740 the Freuds of a citizenship income. And it's it's not easy to do it because it we cannot have a precise data. But Unifying the data of imps and police cards I am. I. I try to see that the number of routes accounted in during the 2,021, 2,022 are almost one less than the 1% of the total recipients. 129 00:31:33.740 --> 00:31:53.249 And I try to show also, like how The citizenship income fraud by their moons are really more Less important than the other kind of Freud, showing how this kind of Freud is symbolically political, more than real. 130 00:31:53.290 --> 00:32:16.530 and after showing the after trying to showing how the the the Freud is used as a tool to implement controls on people and night's side of vulnerability, and how this is change, how this is linked to this, to the characteristic of this kind of politics, that, I repeat, that are very, very strict. 131 00:32:16.530 --> 00:32:32.490 I wanted also to understand what is the effect of this kind of policies, because we can consider that these policies have kind of a social cost that can be defined by Bourdie like suffering social costs 132 00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:42.790 how this politics have an effect of symbolic violence on the recipients that 133 00:32:43.010 --> 00:33:07.449 That really show! Difficult to to to talk about the fact that they? They are taking this measure about the the show. I really They show themselves really ashamed. They cannot talk about the fact that they have. They. They are recipients also to their family, to their friends. And this is very, very 134 00:33:07.450 --> 00:33:29.839 show on how the the the use of free tolls and the media and political attention of this illegalist has really big impact on daily life of people. So what by I I I I really thought a lot. But to to, to to go to the conclusion. I wanted to 135 00:33:29.850 --> 00:33:53.440 mit Ctl and see this kind of control politics. in a comparative way for watching how also, in countries that are considered countries with soft work. For still the treatment and the kind of sanctions and control and punishment of illegalism are very harsh, and are also continuing to be our shared during the time 250. 136 00:33:53.660 --> 00:34:06.319 Despite the focus on despite the fact that the European Union is trying to implement always more. This kind of politics also after the covid 137 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:15.580 and but watching the conditionalities and the control checks on beneficiaries, it seems that 138 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:27.730 are the the same base, the same structure of these policies, the means test and the conditionality requested and controls 139 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:29.650 seems to be 140 00:34:29.690 --> 00:34:41.710 a problem of the of these kind of policies that are conditionally and very, very are in there 141 00:34:42.580 --> 00:34:44.600 structure. So 142 00:34:44.790 --> 00:35:00.709 Lara Maestripieri: sorry for the for that time. Thank you very much. Don't worry too much, you we're just out of 2 min. So not that. But thank you. Thank you very much. I. Now close to the Florida Suzanne panel. Now, Suzanne, are you here? 143 00:35:05.750 --> 00:35:07.480 Penalva Susana: You. Thank you. 144 00:35:07.890 --> 00:35:10.500 Lara Maestripieri: Okay, can you? 145 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.739 Lara Maestripieri: Yes, yes, we have. You. 146 00:35:13.900 --> 00:35:17.270 Penalva Susana: Could I take a a, a, a question. 147 00:35:17.650 --> 00:35:33.960 Penalva Susana: put a question to to the President to yes, about the we. We decided to leave the question at the end of the session, unless it is a very clarity, a very specific question for the presentation. Is it the meaning of full wet 148 00:35:45.020 --> 00:35:52.480 Lara Maestripieri: to exploit the welfare measure for its own benefits without reading the serving it? 149 00:35:52.690 --> 00:35:56.839 Lara Maestripieri: So it's like 150 00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.469 Lara Maestripieri: the accepted translation. Listen you. 151 00:36:01.180 --> 00:36:09.269 Lara Maestripieri: But it's not the directly well, it is associated with the fruit, but it's not directly the term for front. 152 00:36:09.430 --> 00:36:12.279 Penalva Susana: Okay. well, thank you. 153 00:36:12.330 --> 00:36:25.890 Lara Maestripieri: You're welcome, so can you please share your presentation? So Susanna is going to present us paper. I I don't know if it is, it's going to be in French or Spanish 154 00:36:25.940 --> 00:36:27.020 Penalva Susana: infinite 155 00:36:27.130 --> 00:36:46.639 Lara Maestripieri: in French, about the the new models of the such an intervention. I have a title here which is a politician profession in public management, and such a policy between inequalities, regulation, and on government commentality. 156 00:36:47.710 --> 00:37:00.510 Lara Maestripieri: And here, as as the other presenter, you have 15 min. Okay, I will. advise. I will announce you when you have 5 min left. 157 00:37:00.670 --> 00:37:11.200 Penalva Susana: Okay. maybe. Can you? Can you please turn me your come around so that we all see you. Are you seeing my my presentation? 158 00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:14.740 Lara Maestripieri: Yes, yes, the presentation. Yes. 159 00:37:14.990 --> 00:37:16.030 Penalva Susana: okay. 160 00:38:20.420 --> 00:38:21.090 Okay. 161 00:38:54.620 --> 00:38:57.300 Penalva Susana: she a Francis 162 00:39:29.530 --> 00:39:30.880 Penalva Susana: a 163 00:44:28.090 --> 00:44:36.580 Penalva Susana: so. 164 00:47:35.200 --> 00:47:38.300 Penalva Susana: and Jeremy Corbyn 165 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.549 Penalva Susana: increase. So this is the Declan we modern classical. 166 00:51:46.510 --> 00:51:50.530 Penalva Susana: the yeah in 167 00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:12.219 Penalva Susana: mit Ctl and 168 00:52:12.380 --> 00:52:29.770 Penalva Susana: they 169 00:52:29.870 --> 00:52:33.909 Penalva Susana: the promotion, the capital, you know. 170 00:52:46.780 --> 00:52:48.920 Penalva Susana: in. Hello! 171 00:53:02.690 --> 00:53:04.600 Penalva Susana: There's a Google Pool. So 172 00:53:31.650 --> 00:53:35.599 Penalva Susana: you don't go like it. You can see it. 173 00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:00.860 Penalva Susana: it. 174 00:55:00.580 --> 00:55:01.390 Penalva Susana: see? 175 00:55:02.230 --> 00:55:08.220 Penalva Susana: Well. 176 00:56:37.600 --> 00:56:44.700 Penalva Susana: So it's a complete Laura. 4 min. 177 00:58:15.130 --> 00:58:31.249 Lara Maestripieri: and we passed. Now to our last presenter, which is as well online. Can you please stop sharing your screen so that the thank you very much. 178 00:58:31.380 --> 00:58:33.460 Lara Maestripieri: I mean, Zima. 179 00:58:34.500 --> 00:58:35.950 Mingzi Ma: Yeah, I'm here. 180 00:58:36.020 --> 00:58:51.920 Lara Maestripieri: Okay. So the use are the same as the other people. So you have 15 min to present their work. I don't know if there is any pound of a question for now, why we change 181 00:58:52.060 --> 00:58:55.330 Lara Maestripieri: from one presentation to another. 182 00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:58.230 Mingzi Ma: So just 183 00:58:58.850 --> 00:59:00.839 Lara Maestripieri: yes with it. 184 00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:02.030 Mingzi Ma: it is. 185 00:59:02.130 --> 00:59:07.440 Mingzi Ma: okay. Now, now, I can share my screen. 186 00:59:08.260 --> 00:59:37.379 Lara Maestripieri: So means we ma together with the Yan Nwang and all one that present to be red but not professional professional autonomy and the construction of state that your money it. It is a very interesting paper that we've discussed professionally is in China's Rural social worker. So we are very happy to, and the E to listen to your presentation. 187 00:59:37.570 --> 00:59:55.289 Mingzi Ma: Okay, thank you very much. So my name is so the title of our presentation is being read, but not professional. So in this study, we focus on the social working with China and the, we believe, social. Okay, such an important social service profession. 188 00:59:55.470 --> 01:00:04.019 Mingzi Ma: And and I just let me introduce the background of social work in China, and the why we pay attention to this profession. 189 01:00:04.140 --> 01:00:17.270 Mingzi Ma: So Firstly, well, in the recent 10 years the the seat gives huge opportunities for social worker growing So social workers has been gradually in deal with 190 01:00:17.270 --> 01:00:42.269 Mingzi Ma: the China's brutal revitalization strategy and the poverty innovation task is raised by, you know, our Presidency and the the party and the government highlights, the establishment of rural social work, and they encourage those professionals to provide a welfare services to the how delay that disabled and left behind the children 191 01:00:42.270 --> 01:00:50.930 Mingzi Ma: in China. So so Rud also has become a new policy direction. That's from the 192 01:00:51.580 --> 01:01:11.680 Mingzi Ma: the perspective of national policies and also social work. The professional community itself is seeking, expanding their working fields instead of only working in some major cities like in Shanghai, in Beijing they they want to to expand it there. 193 01:01:12.060 --> 01:01:29.200 Mingzi Ma: they want to get more professionally determined and enhance their social status through expansion. So, and the social work is is work with government to build a social work worker social workstation. Or we say, the social work service center 194 01:01:29.200 --> 01:01:51.409 Mingzi Ma: just like in the picture, in every community in China, and some achievements in providing basic livelihood services has has been admitted by the party, and and that the government is so. So we believe in this new field of state and the professional interaction it provide. It provides us with a 195 01:01:51.680 --> 01:02:01.739 Mingzi Ma: quite good opportunity to re-examine the State professional issues in current China, because the situation is quite different compared with 13 years ago. 196 01:02:02.590 --> 01:02:08.929 Mingzi Ma: when when China adjusts a head to the economic reform, so 197 01:02:09.270 --> 01:02:24.380 Mingzi Ma: and the in China. Well, the ideal and the traditional requirement and the expectation of the State professions. Relationship is red and the expert well, you you you can see the picture here. 198 01:02:24.460 --> 01:02:26.000 So 199 01:02:26.450 --> 01:02:47.549 Mingzi Ma: or we see experts can be replaced by professional so red, it means being social less and minded and adhering to the leadership leadership of the the party, and the ensuring that the political direction of professionals is hiding consistent with the serving the people. Ideology 200 01:02:47.550 --> 01:02:57.419 Mingzi Ma: and the expert or professional means that professionals should master those knowledge and excuse necessary to be able to serve the people. 201 01:02:57.500 --> 01:03:06.349 Mingzi Ma: So the red professional ideals in social work. I quote it from an official documents is. 202 01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:16.630 Mingzi Ma: build a professional Ted and team that we as the party and the government and satisfy the people you you will see The first thing is 203 01:03:17.050 --> 01:03:22.209 Mingzi Ma: is to reassure the party and the government then serving the people satisfied people. 204 01:03:22.450 --> 01:03:23.590 Mingzi Ma: however. 205 01:03:23.680 --> 01:03:51.229 Mingzi Ma: for a long time social social work has been critical of science by researchers, and even the public, because of lacking effectiveness or lacking as localized the expertise knowledge and the work autonomy. So some people think so. It will be just a semi-profession. So our Chris question is in this, in the semi-professionalization condition. How could to try not to overcome the problem of social work, insufficient 206 01:03:51.230 --> 01:03:59.619 Mingzi Ma: professionalization and using this profession to provide public welfare services. And when 207 01:04:00.020 --> 01:04:23.780 Mingzi Ma: and then, I think, profession issues, so we can see many discussions. in a state intervention so so facing the profession, that the State is quite active it 10 that sense it to it attends to use intervening or restrict professions. So I list that I listed some use on this. For example, Michelle Focus 208 01:04:24.020 --> 01:04:35.859 Mingzi Ma: and the Us. Overall. This. This State needs a ton of autonomy, professional knowledge to legalize its governors, and the profession 209 01:04:35.970 --> 01:04:41.220 Mingzi Ma: had, and profession has become an important resource for State governance. 210 01:04:41.380 --> 01:04:57.560 Mingzi Ma: So so it's the social work in China, because there's a state in need, a cons, the State. You need to concentrate this profession building and the controlling building because such a book has certain social function because it it 211 01:04:57.780 --> 01:04:59.520 Mingzi Ma: it can provide you 212 01:04:59.710 --> 01:05:14.650 Mingzi Ma: So case management or they have. They have, some counseling skills to solve psychological issues. That is very important for individual and the the controlling because 213 01:05:14.650 --> 01:05:35.730 Mingzi Ma: well, the china social work is what was introduced from United States or Hong Kong. So some some values and a practice mode for of social work, a high risk and and and acceptable for for the State. So social working should be modified to suit the China situation. 214 01:05:36.730 --> 01:05:38.170 Mingzi Ma: And and then you. 215 01:05:38.240 --> 01:05:57.010 Mingzi Ma: in this research, we use 2 series to analyze this this problem. The first thing is, there was, ideological pro eternalization. So a double developer in the Max's concept and the fund is that there were 2 ways to prolit that session. Professional employees 216 01:05:57.510 --> 01:06:14.290 Mingzi Ma: if workers, it could not control their label process, which was called a technical, and the the situation which workers could not define the meaning of their work or or the social purpose of their professions, was regarded as id logically. 217 01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:37.789 Mingzi Ma: And it's the second concept that we use here is Antonio Graham's concept of ideology. Ha! Ha! Germany? I believe you are very familiar with this concept. So in in this research? We think so. The ideology hit Germany. 218 01:06:38.430 --> 01:06:47.599 Mingzi Ma: It's not a discipline control. It is the rude cross consent to the political and the ideological leadership of the ring class and the 219 01:06:47.780 --> 01:06:55.560 Mingzi Ma: and then the most of the important thing is the hegemonicle at the hit Hermonic. A construction may have in 2 220 01:06:55.610 --> 01:07:13.050 Mingzi Ma: levels the collective well of the profession and the the human personality of individual workers. So combine these 2 concepts. We build such a framework here. So this graph actually means well, the State is. 221 01:07:13.270 --> 01:07:19.820 Mingzi Ma: and the State constructs the ideology of social work. While social work is. 222 01:07:20.240 --> 01:07:35.489 Mingzi Ma: accepts the guidance, whatever activity, or passively, after being consent to this kind of red ideology. This did social work. Profession may exchange for more technical autonomy. 223 01:07:36.510 --> 01:07:42.079 Mingzi Ma: and finally, the profession based on it, and finally, based on social work. 224 01:07:42.130 --> 01:07:46.040 Mingzi Ma: technical autonomy, so the professionals could 225 01:07:46.330 --> 01:07:48.949 Mingzi Ma: could it, providing some 226 01:07:49.100 --> 01:08:08.939 Mingzi Ma: professional services as they wanted the as they want, and that the profession, as well as the State can both achieve the service impacted. They want to. Social work needs those service impacted to pro prove it's professionalism and that the State needs to service impact to stable. It's really. 227 01:08:08.950 --> 01:08:13.510 Mingzi Ma: And we 228 01:08:13.550 --> 01:08:28.439 Mingzi Ma: okay, and we can see there are 2 the the the hit. Many constructing happens in 2 levels first, of the States constructing professional values. And it's it's functions. 229 01:08:28.450 --> 01:08:34.719 Mingzi Ma: And secondly, the city actually constructing the meaning of work of Ford individuals. 230 01:08:34.740 --> 01:08:40.610 Mingzi Ma: And the and here is our another, he says, is, well, if the 231 01:08:41.510 --> 01:09:09.270 Mingzi Ma: and in our hypothesis, if the trade trade works you know, you're using this ideology to exchange technical autonomy. So it should be a strong mediating effect. Effects we expect expected so to test our hypothesis. Actually, we put the as structured equation mode to to test our hypothesis. So the results show that the meeting. 232 01:09:09.360 --> 01:09:23.020 Mingzi Ma: the effect of technical autonomy is quite weak on the country, that the direct effect of value and the work meaning on service impact are much, much stronger. So we think 2. 233 01:09:23.330 --> 01:09:41.780 Mingzi Ma: This findings may indicate that for the social work profession in China so ideologically, proletarianization does not bring higher technical autonomy which was against our expectation and the reproved experiences of not professional 234 01:09:42.540 --> 01:09:45.620 Mingzi Ma: However, if professional. Like 235 01:09:45.940 --> 01:09:54.550 Mingzi Ma: the technical autonomy, the State can still use ideology in Germany to mobilize professionals, to carry out services. 236 01:09:55.230 --> 01:10:05.820 Mingzi Ma: So our discussion is well, the focus may may not be on discussing with the Chinese social working as a profession, or it's level 237 01:10:06.010 --> 01:10:10.910 Mingzi Ma: of professionalization, but rather on what sense of profession 238 01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:18.970 Mingzi Ma: it is and how it's nation. Nature is defining. And and we found so being professional or being 239 01:10:19.370 --> 01:10:28.100 Mingzi Ma: experts does not necessarily mean red. But the red can construct and can define and judge what is professional. 240 01:10:28.220 --> 01:10:46.920 Mingzi Ma: So maybe we could change the title red, but not professional, to read, leading to professional in China. So and the and the representing the party and the governments providing welfare services helps the social work again, legitimacy and the exceptions for the people. 241 01:10:47.130 --> 01:10:50.510 Mingzi Ma: But this legitimacy and the exceptions 242 01:10:50.670 --> 01:11:05.950 Mingzi Ma: actually, some by products of the public's gratitude and the rewards to the party and the governments. So in people's eyes, social work is nothing more but some kind of agents of the party. 243 01:11:06.580 --> 01:11:19.159 Mingzi Ma: However, we still can see that the more gratitude and the rewards of the people give to the party under the government. It made the greater social workers professional space be given by a 244 01:11:19.180 --> 01:11:22.690 Mingzi Ma: you given however, before 245 01:11:22.770 --> 01:11:51.350 Mingzi Ma: before ending my first in a presentation. I should imagine that. Well, this research has huge limitations, like a measure measurement issues, because autonomy and the Germany is is how? It is hardly to be measured by some single questions, and they use a quantity message to prove and and and then that's the question is, well, I think this presentation only 246 01:11:51.350 --> 01:12:02.749 Mingzi Ma: tell some common sense of China, because all the occupations, all the all the professions, should the photo they read, and the expert the ideology in China. So. 247 01:12:02.750 --> 01:12:23.089 Mingzi Ma: but to how the state, the construct Germany, and the and what techniques they they use, what what part is this, although what laws have has belong to to? To re, look, regulate to profession is not detailed showed here. but I'm working on this. So digging more historical evidence. 248 01:12:23.890 --> 01:12:28.609 Mingzi Ma: And the finally, I want to raise a questions. 249 01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:55.330 Mingzi Ma: Well, you know, idea ideology is a complete complicated things. And how could we know which one is better? Because I I see many researchers in in China, so many scholars? I believe that the search will should follow western values or the practical by adopting some radical message, such as strikes, gathering or social movements. 250 01:12:56.090 --> 01:13:15.749 Mingzi Ma: And the and they think those are ideas of the social work, so they they dislike a social work now in China. well, I don't deny this. In fact, I'm quite agree with their point. But my.is well if red, leading to professional, could achieve the 251 01:13:16.030 --> 01:13:18.859 Mingzi Ma: the automatic of of human well-being. 252 01:13:18.980 --> 01:13:28.700 Mingzi Ma: for example, China is a hard working on perfecting innovation. And it do we have a people's 253 01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:35.309 Mingzi Ma: living standard. So why should we still emphasize that the profession should be? 254 01:13:35.900 --> 01:13:42.890 Mingzi Ma: We have. we should have ideology account may or should be in into independent 255 01:13:42.990 --> 01:13:57.249 Mingzi Ma: and of course, we we see more, that is, public service services, services. Professionals have actually become a to self operation. But it's just my thought. 256 01:13:57.350 --> 01:14:00.549 Mingzi Ma: thank you very much. that's all my presentation. 257 01:14:00.650 --> 01:14:27.519 Lara Maestripieri: Thank you very much. Thank you. You were a perfect that does the 16 min. And so 1 one we know on outside. we have to discuss some today for this for vapor. there should be Arian Adapta in person in a Melbourne. So if you can, yes, hello So that we can see you. 258 01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:37.920 Lara Maestripieri: and then we have which is online. So I will give the floor to the first and then to coach. 259 01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:50.369 Thank you very much to all the presenters today that gave us an updated 260 01:14:50.610 --> 01:14:51.690 stage 261 01:14:51.850 --> 01:14:56.950 of the delivery of public services or an overview on 262 01:14:57.140 --> 01:15:11.990 the state of the delivery of public services in various countries. So in Italy, in Latin America, and in China, interestingly diverting from usual, I would say. 263 01:15:12.060 --> 01:15:24.560 the usual concentration on more Anglo-saxon countries. So we, the avatar in this respect that there's been a lot of in size that are not common. 264 01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:33.360 Oh, I'm country, sir, not commonly. ask how many Covid. and indeed, I see 265 01:15:33.620 --> 01:15:50.290 in the connect. The connective travel between all of the presentations, I would say, is on how we can indeed, what, how the delivery of public services affects people, and 266 01:15:50.580 --> 01:16:03.050 also how it affects those that are involved in delivering public services like social workers, and indeed those that are involved in the management. Public management. 267 01:16:03.130 --> 01:16:06.170 indeed! I think 268 01:16:06.330 --> 01:16:13.510 I want to comment on the Domenico's presentation. How many got it? But I'm not sure if he's 269 01:16:13.560 --> 01:16:16.520 if he's there still. I had a look at the 270 01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:29.489 Lara Maestripieri: he. He said that he's not there, but he will look at the registration, and also that they will. I'm sure to to receive your comment. Yes, I mean I I am. 271 01:16:29.930 --> 01:16:52.750 I found, very interesting. His indeed, his progress on the local level, which is also not that common. We are not sure which level is the best level. which we could deliver public services, and I wish I could hear from him more about, indeed, whether the new next generation EU is going to 272 01:16:52.760 --> 01:17:06.709 give incentive for municipalities to corroborate in the fashion that he assured, and where they could solve some of the issues in the delivery of public services that have been showed and as pervasive in 273 01:17:06.900 --> 01:17:10.190 in the Italian context. When we talk about the local level. 274 01:17:11.010 --> 01:17:22.329 and then I want to move to instead the presentation from Fedoria Graziano. So I share the suspect. 275 01:17:22.420 --> 01:17:26.510 indicate at the end of the presentation 276 01:17:26.720 --> 01:17:41.689 that the problem is in. I mean, there is a problem in general, not only in Italy with minimum income scheme measures so as soon as it looks like. As soon as the governments have to give money to the poor 277 01:17:41.770 --> 01:17:47.620 star, a number of problems, no matter what regime of wealth. Actually, interestingly enough. 278 01:17:47.700 --> 01:17:52.940 so even in Southern Europe there is a similar issue. 279 01:17:52.980 --> 01:17:56.450 and I find interesting also the 280 01:17:56.510 --> 01:18:04.340 I was wondering if social work, that where some interviews with social workers in the presentation could actually 281 01:18:04.450 --> 01:18:11.920 represent potentially a force that could bring the instances of 282 01:18:12.160 --> 01:18:23.399 the poor to the, to the decision-makers, the public decision makers, because they are faced with difficult decisions on whether to interrupt the benefits of people that they know 283 01:18:23.450 --> 01:18:25.220 they die on the line. 284 01:18:25.430 --> 01:18:36.590 So, yeah, I would like to hear more about about this, about the role of social workers in this. And then I regarding the presentation of Suzanne. 285 01:18:37.280 --> 01:18:42.299 indeed, I mean, provide a very. 286 01:18:42.620 --> 01:18:51.790 a broad overview of the history of the evolution of the of the of Latin America, and also the 287 01:18:51.970 --> 01:19:03.270 part of new new public management. Introduction, new type of public management. Informed policies. I would say. I was wondering how 288 01:19:03.320 --> 01:19:04.840 well 289 01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:20.579 Covid has shaped. the future I have in this respect, so whether she can give us more insights on What Covid has star into Latin America in terms of of the it's 290 01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:24.220 welfare provision system. 291 01:19:24.380 --> 01:19:26.720 and finally. 292 01:19:26.890 --> 01:19:36.670 very interesting. The presentation on from Means am from about China. And I. I wanted to have a bit more insight on 293 01:19:36.750 --> 01:19:41.040 the definition of professionalism that 294 01:19:41.320 --> 01:19:49.870 that is used in the research. And indeed, I find in interesting the point that if 295 01:19:49.890 --> 01:19:53.750 if at the end of the day services are delivered. 296 01:19:54.160 --> 01:20:12.039 the whatever the ideology, as long as people in the taken care of that should be fine. But from up on a political level I I wanted to call. I wanted to use some comment about the risk. That, indeed. So why, 297 01:20:12.630 --> 01:20:17.520 speed. there is a and social workers. the 298 01:20:18.240 --> 01:20:30.359 are not considered professionals when there is a risk that they influence people beyond what intended by the party turning themselves into a threat so into a potentially a social movement. 299 01:20:30.410 --> 01:20:35.350 as I was indicating also in the case of I could I also in the case of Italy. So not 300 01:20:35.720 --> 01:20:36.870 just a 301 01:20:37.300 --> 01:20:45.669 for for for china. And yeah, thank you very much. And I want to leave the floor to the other discuss and 302 01:20:46.030 --> 01:20:47.259 and the presenters. 303 01:20:47.740 --> 01:20:49.199 Lara Maestripieri: Thank you very much. 304 01:20:53.040 --> 01:21:03.339 Lara Maestripieri: I I think it's better to collect the to discuss something, and then we give the the word to the the centers. 305 01:21:03.480 --> 01:21:07.040 Koichi HIRAOKA: Okay, so so may I start now? Yeah. 306 01:21:07.760 --> 01:21:17.499 Koichi HIRAOKA: Well, I listen to the 4 presentations with very much interest, and I would like to thank all speakers for their excellent presentations. 307 01:21:17.820 --> 01:21:29.780 Koichi HIRAOKA: As for the first presentation. I I understand that this research has shown that social consortia has been successfully making the social service provision 308 01:21:29.940 --> 01:21:34.850 Koichi HIRAOKA: more effective and efficient. And well, 309 01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:46.949 Koichi HIRAOKA: I'm interested in the the concept of the social partner governance mentioned in the abstract of this study. And I I wonder if the 310 01:21:47.130 --> 01:22:02.899 Koichi HIRAOKA: the presenter, Doctor Teresa, could talk a little about what a social past to the consists of employee organization and labor unions only, or do other organization also participate in the social partner governance. 311 01:22:03.280 --> 01:22:19.289 Koichi HIRAOKA: And what those do. I'm wondering what roles these these social partner are, this social partner governance may play in the governance of social services. 312 01:22:20.440 --> 01:22:37.829 Koichi HIRAOKA: and as for the second presentation, on controlling the poor, I took very much interest in the Italian new program of minimum income guarantee. And they controls. And from the conditionalities which a company 313 01:22:38.070 --> 01:22:41.320 Koichi HIRAOKA: is a a company. It's provision. 314 01:22:41.630 --> 01:22:55.980 Koichi HIRAOKA: I would be grateful. If Dr. Graziano could they talk earlier about what was the background factors for the introduction of criminal penalties in R DC. 315 01:22:56.130 --> 01:23:20.060 Koichi HIRAOKA: Program? But with the background factors for the introduction of premium penalties in L, they see. And the second question is, what fact? that? What what factors led to the abolition of the Rdc. And the introduction of the new inclusion allowance, new inclusion allowance on the job activation 316 01:23:20.130 --> 01:23:21.180 Koichi HIRAOKA: to 317 01:23:21.240 --> 01:23:32.500 Koichi HIRAOKA: I wonder if this policy change? Was this policy change due to the ideology of the ruling parties? Or, did other factors 318 01:23:32.670 --> 01:23:36.380 Koichi HIRAOKA: play a a role? Role? 319 01:23:37.750 --> 01:23:47.130 Koichi HIRAOKA: Well, as for the last presentation on social work, professional in in China, I was impressed with the in such an argument on the potential of 320 01:23:47.160 --> 01:23:54.050 Koichi HIRAOKA: potential of professionalism. In Chinese social work. I would like to ask 2 questions. 321 01:23:54.190 --> 01:24:06.220 Koichi HIRAOKA: First, I was I was. I was not able to understand how the the concept of I all ideologically. 322 01:24:06.430 --> 01:24:22.120 Koichi HIRAOKA: the I don't know it's and the 2 variables included in the structure equation model that is professional value and individual work. Meaning, how does this go concept? And to variables? 323 01:24:22.270 --> 01:24:26.250 Koichi HIRAOKA: I did it. Second. 324 01:24:26.510 --> 01:24:40.489 Koichi HIRAOKA: is there a possibility that for the economic growth and the value changes which will accompany it. We will change The relationship between the citizens and the professional and the state 325 01:24:40.630 --> 01:24:47.510 Koichi HIRAOKA: in the near future is a result in the increase in the professional autonomy in social work. 326 01:24:47.840 --> 01:24:48.730 Koichi HIRAOKA: Thank you. 327 01:24:50.180 --> 01:24:51.720 Lara Maestripieri: Thank you very much. 328 01:24:51.750 --> 01:25:18.830 Lara Maestripieri: I will ask Sidney guys so she can come to to the front so that we can see her. I also ask I mean Zima and Susan up and out about to put their come around so that we can have a discussion between people and not just between computers. Federica. I also added the question of of Dominic for you. 329 01:25:18.830 --> 01:25:33.229 Lara Maestripieri: the new Italian policy on Adi seems to have made that the condition even more. This is stringent. Do you think this is intended by the policy to make it perceived as a success measure. Measure. 330 01:25:34.150 --> 01:25:41.799 Lara Maestripieri: Okay? So I guess that the they were there would be 331 01:25:43.720 --> 01:26:07.100 okay. Thanks, thanks very much for the questions. And I really appreciate the first question because it was actually something that I really saw during the interviews on social work. They were the fact that in Italy the new control system is something new that is implementing is changing a lot, the work of social worker by implementing a lot of controls 332 01:26:07.100 --> 01:26:26.859 that they have to act. And this is very problematic, because it's something that already happened in other countries, but is happening now. And so we can see a kind of resistance in the social worker actually like they were very. They stressed out a lot that they were not policemen like all the time. I asked, like 333 01:26:26.860 --> 01:26:54.140 how you have to act for the case. For the cases of Freud, of social Freud, they said, like with the new elaboration of the controls on citizenship income, they have a kind of bottom that is actually connected with the imps to see out the case of Freud. But there are also social workers that are actually working on the residence criteria under control. 334 01:26:54.140 --> 01:27:16.519 That is a work that in Italy is done by administrative workers and social workers and the social workers that are doing this, that kind of travel of work. They are stressing out the fact that they work with these people. And it's impossible to ask to these people to give back 3,000 for 1,000. But in the same time I I saw 335 01:27:16.630 --> 01:27:30.669 there is a kind of a 2 positions in social workers, because in a side. They really stress out the fact that people have to work, that that the beneficiaries 336 01:27:30.680 --> 01:27:54.489 have to be insert in work programmers. They, some of these workers were very rigid about that, and but they they were really more more focused on the fact that they don't want to have this responsibility, because they also add the the one that works in municipalities also have their responsibility to give 337 01:27:54.510 --> 01:28:06.520 the names of the people that are that can be frozen to the police. So they are really like inside this change. And they are really stressing out. 338 01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:08.200 And 339 01:28:08.330 --> 01:28:17.529 so we can see a kind of resistance, but also in some way a kind of how to say a kind also of 340 01:28:17.770 --> 01:28:28.399 a participation in the disciplining chain on behavior of recipients. 341 01:28:28.520 --> 01:28:29.720 And 342 01:28:30.330 --> 01:28:34.860 about the the question, the the 343 01:28:35.050 --> 01:28:58.820 the question of Mr. Professor Iraq. I actually, the the first implementation of a citizenship income. was already characterized by some crimes that but there were already some crimes that forbidden the access to the measure these crimes were. 344 01:28:58.820 --> 01:29:14.220 they were the case of a big Freud to social benefits and the case of organised criminalisation. So Mafia crimes and 345 01:29:15.369 --> 01:29:25.139 the the new. I am. I cannot explain exactly why the has been included new crimes, but 346 01:29:25.250 --> 01:29:28.840 they kind of are inserted in this. 347 01:29:29.469 --> 01:29:41.019 how to say they they seem a bit. The effect of the speaking done by the the government 348 01:29:41.020 --> 01:30:03.420 implementing and stressing the fact that the changement of a citizenship income also had The one of the change was was to be more focused to help, who really deserve the help and to make it more efficient on criteria of who deserved this kind of measure. 349 01:30:03.420 --> 01:30:14.219 So in this sense it stress out the punitive approach of this, of these change 350 01:30:16.150 --> 01:30:31.759 the other question about the change of the politics, the melonic government. This is the right government, since also the electoral campaign 351 01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:52.520 stressed out a lot, the violence against the rascal of citizenship income and really stressed out the difference and the distance between who really deserved the help and who don't really deserve 352 01:30:52.520 --> 01:31:05.129 stressing out this point. That is very, very deep studied by Castell showing out this is very typical of this kind of 353 01:31:05.129 --> 01:31:27.299 social policies. And actually, the the the new government divided the measures. He established it 2 different measure, one for the employable people, and were, for they not employed people, but also the one. And I. I can also answer to Domenico threats up by this, that also the one that is yes, that is 354 01:31:27.309 --> 01:31:33.970 focused on people who deserve help. So people in more vulnerable conditions. 355 01:31:34.049 --> 01:31:49.590 Yes, it's also characterized by very strict parameters of access, and also very strict conditional. It is also in some way more than citizenship income, and 150 356 01:31:50.129 --> 01:31:58.739 I think. Yes, that that that speech was about making more efficient the the measure. 357 01:31:58.770 --> 01:32:10.879 But it gives a lot of it's really problematic for the for the recipients. Sorry, I 358 01:32:12.450 --> 01:32:16.979 I think I finished? Thank you very much, I hope. I answered the question. 359 01:32:17.660 --> 01:32:24.729 Lara Maestripieri: Thank you very much. Thank you for. Please stay here and stay there so that we can see you. 360 01:32:30.500 --> 01:32:32.750 Lara Maestripieri: Susanna. It is your turn 361 01:32:33.850 --> 01:32:37.070 Lara Maestripieri: to answer to the question of the discussions. 362 01:32:38.070 --> 01:32:56.879 Penalva Susana: well, I I think that My English is not enough to to to to precisely as a respond to to the, to the question. It is a problem if I continue in French. 363 01:33:00.120 --> 01:33:07.169 Penalva Susana: French, Spanish, or English, other official languages in that time. 364 01:33:07.340 --> 01:33:08.860 Penalva Susana: It's 365 01:34:13.680 --> 01:34:17.250 Penalva Susana: they permit for the med, I assume 366 01:35:43.620 --> 01:35:45.070 Penalva Susana: they'll 367 01:36:02.630 --> 01:36:38.010 Penalva Susana: So to the policymakers at the local level level, It's sexy. 368 01:37:18.110 --> 01:37:36.500 Mingzi Ma: Okay? first question, what is the professionalism in in our research? So well, actually, we use a very functionalism definition of a functionalization. So at the public and the State believe. if 369 01:37:36.780 --> 01:37:54.159 Mingzi Ma: if the social worker could solve actual social problems, and I like if I have a hard to say this. You you treat me, or if I'm a for poor people, and you give me some money, or just so you you help me to find a job, and that's the professional design. 370 01:37:54.340 --> 01:38:22.069 Mingzi Ma: the the state, and that the public want. So so that's why we say so, Nick. So social work is a semi-professionalization in China. But actually, if professional, I say, and the things we use use these what the profession and that's the question is autonomy. So autonomy actually means some legal control of the will work in the whole social structure. But 371 01:38:22.650 --> 01:38:26.790 Mingzi Ma: but we didn't use the that definition definition in 372 01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:29.519 Mingzi Ma: in this article? 373 01:38:29.560 --> 01:38:40.059 Mingzi Ma: but but a and yeah, and this is also a limitation of this research, because we have been discussing this problems for a long time 374 01:38:40.120 --> 01:38:46.380 Mingzi Ma: with other users. And the second question is, how could we know, 375 01:38:46.710 --> 01:38:48.890 Mingzi Ma: how the the 376 01:38:48.930 --> 01:38:54.800 Mingzi Ma: how could we know the individual work with meaning and the professional value. 377 01:38:54.860 --> 01:39:12.490 Mingzi Ma: I can link to the service impact. And they're representing the A Germany constructions. Well, it's a as I mentioned this, the state construct to the social work. Profession is really in 2 levels, first, 378 01:39:12.890 --> 01:39:15.170 Mingzi Ma: first today. So so the 379 01:39:15.340 --> 01:39:25.499 Mingzi Ma: the country actually defines the the social work is its value and and the function in some official documents. And the and we 380 01:39:25.760 --> 01:39:45.349 Mingzi Ma: and we've mentioned in in many official documents and and the policies documents, or even in the laws they they have, and even the speech of our precedent, because our President's speech is quite important for for the the whole policies. they actually define that the 381 01:39:46.180 --> 01:39:54.599 Mingzi Ma: the social work should do something, and there should not do something, and the and the in each level of government that they actually have 382 01:39:54.950 --> 01:40:05.589 Mingzi Ma: documented. we've called It's a white list that to tell you what you can do and what you can't cannot do. And well. 383 01:40:05.630 --> 01:40:06.800 Mingzi Ma: actually. 384 01:40:06.840 --> 01:40:13.450 Mingzi Ma: and also is another limitation I mentioned in the slides is 385 01:40:13.820 --> 01:40:17.750 Mingzi Ma: I I skipped it. The professional education, though. 386 01:40:17.790 --> 01:40:23.140 Mingzi Ma: hi, especially the higher education issues in this study because 387 01:40:23.170 --> 01:40:27.019 Mingzi Ma: well, actually, all of the the 388 01:40:27.720 --> 01:40:52.920 Mingzi Ma: the books and the for for professional education is being has been checked, and and the exam. The by the Government to to ensure that there is nothing to radical or to aggressive things that will threaten the state. So actually, the the knowledge I have learned is being modified it and the 389 01:40:53.260 --> 01:41:05.390 Mingzi Ma: and the and we changes. So so the social work is a so in social work, professionals of some of the the the new ages, like like like me 390 01:41:05.620 --> 01:41:16.289 Mingzi Ma: they do well think well the social work this profession is, I mean, the issue should serve the country and the of the people and the and I. I say that 391 01:41:16.430 --> 01:41:17.400 Mingzi Ma: in this. 392 01:41:18.140 --> 01:41:21.669 Mingzi Ma: in the another is individual level. So 393 01:41:21.850 --> 01:41:39.159 Mingzi Ma: in the Indian virtual level, well, so you know, Chinese government really like to you use news or use some social media to to spread that those those ideal examples 394 01:41:39.500 --> 01:41:42.119 Mingzi Ma: in in the, in the 395 01:41:42.840 --> 01:41:51.269 Mingzi Ma: of of social workers. So they they tell our individuals, look. They, they serve the people, they they work so hard. And 396 01:41:51.850 --> 01:42:14.610 Mingzi Ma: so you should learn them, and that they they and the actually, they also creating some some discourse of the spring of social work and the he and that the government is actually enhancing the it's trying to enhance the income of social work to encourage more people to 397 01:42:14.790 --> 01:42:17.540 Mingzi Ma: to join this profession. And 398 01:42:18.680 --> 01:42:25.899 Mingzi Ma: and the and the income is quite a important for for the young people 399 01:42:25.940 --> 01:42:27.530 Mingzi Ma: so. 400 01:42:28.060 --> 01:42:39.940 Mingzi Ma: and and and the and things that the state and say And this is since this is reduced some policies to enhance the the income or or other ways, and the 401 01:42:40.740 --> 01:42:47.740 Mingzi Ma: and the people were saying, Well, that that's a profession with a bright future so. 402 01:42:47.770 --> 01:42:48.939 Mingzi Ma: and that they 403 01:42:48.990 --> 01:42:58.019 Mingzi Ma: and the I think it. It does social work as well may have a higher identity to their their job. 404 01:42:58.260 --> 01:43:02.140 Mingzi Ma: So yeah, that's my 405 01:43:04.610 --> 01:43:31.609 Mingzi Ma: but I or and we also actually, we also discussing with other with other users about autonomy issues, because well, in different researches, we actually have different definition of autonomy. for example, in in this, in this research, we use technical autonomy and the ideology autonomy. But actually did a Co operate a 406 01:43:32.060 --> 01:43:39.200 Mingzi Ma: autonomy. It linked to the social and economic power in the social structure. 407 01:43:39.240 --> 01:43:44.270 Mingzi Ma: But we still discussing that these questions. Thank you. 408 01:43:45.140 --> 01:43:47.770 Lara Maestripieri: Thank you very much. Thank you. 409 01:43:48.160 --> 01:44:12.559 Lara Maestripieri: So I hope that the the discussion. We're satisfied with this answer that they have received, but I think that we have a 4 min left before the end of the session. I don't know if anyone from the public in person or online Mike Kyanjana would like to make a quick question to our presenters. 410 01:44:14.140 --> 01:44:22.800 Lara Maestripieri: You have to help me because I cannot see the public. So if there is someone who wants to. Okay. Nope. 411 01:44:22.880 --> 01:44:37.439 Lara Maestripieri: okay, so I think that we can leave this 3 min for Susannah. She's the organizer of this session, so I think that she should, as the owner, to close this session with the final words. 412 01:44:40.040 --> 01:44:41.760 Penalva Susana: well. 413 01:44:42.240 --> 01:44:44.400 just a few minutes. 414 01:44:45.030 --> 01:44:46.500 Penalva Susana: A 415 01:44:52.470 --> 01:44:54.640 Penalva Susana: don't go 416 01:47:29.660 --> 01:47:30.880 Penalva Susana: they? 417 01:47:33.950 --> 01:47:48.249 Lara Maestripieri: Thank you very much, Suzanne, for organizing this session. Thank you to Kuwaiti and Ariana for discussing the paper, and of course. Thank you to all the presenters, Domenico, Suzanna, Federica, and Lindsey. 418 01:47:48.250 --> 01:48:06.330 Lara Maestripieri: and the for us is I'm calling from Barcelona. So for us it's almost time to launch. I of that there in Melbourne. Is not that cold, at least until I enjoy the city and the enjoy the rest of the day. To all of you. 419 01:48:06.890 --> 01:48:09.000 Thank you.