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So good, without a room. Welcome everybody. We have a I suppose to be a short session but we never know.

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And we have 2 presentation Natalie Miranda this is the first and the second one would be in remote so as we have enough time.

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Probably I will give you 20 min or something like that and after that we can have soon questions and Comment so Natalia Miranda researcher at Arlos University in Denmark.

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Where do you go?

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Yeah, thank you for coming for that introduction and thank you all you guys for coming today. This is going to be interesting and thank you all you guys for coming today.

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This is gonna be interesting because I'm gonna be here and my other colleague's gonna be alive.

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So yeah, 50 50 situation. So as, my name is Natalie Veranda. I am Chilean.

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I work as a post doctoral researcher at Akhos University in Denmark. And my presentation is entitled, as you can see, Alteractivism.

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And engagement among actors of young adulthood. Just a brief introduction before.

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Wait. Yeah. Well, this paper, it's a work in progress.

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Sorry, comprises results from my PhD thesis. Which I wrote at the Catholic University of Yuan super supervised by our a new ISA president and Jeffrey players and of course I stressed this because one of the key concepts that of my presentation comes from his research, as you will see.

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So let me introduce you the topic. Today we talk about 3 main concepts. The first one is the concept of alter activism.

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From the work of players and outer activism has been developed to analyze the way activists deploy their political culture of activism.

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Especially coming from the global justice movement in the early 2 thousands. And this activism features as you can see there on the slide creativity, expressivity, fluid political engagement, refiguration, everyday practices, and experimentation.

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And on the second vein, I use the concept of emerging adulthood coin by JJ Rnet and this is the final set transitional stage after atolescence after being a teenager just beginning to exhibit adult characteristics yet still dominated by role exploration and yet still dominated by role exploration and experiences.

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And as you can notice, this moment of life is very much linked with outer activism because it shows features such as engagement based on concrete tasks and affinity groups.

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Emphasis on lived experience, creativity, self-realization, technological adoption for activism, lower levels of professional family responsibilities.

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Flexible and informal political participation and of course this is everything is linked with the concept of biographical availability by Mechanism.

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So my question here is if this framework could be extended to a different group, H group, let's say an older group.

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And year, And this older group related to what has been called the young adult. This is a stage characterized by role immersion and increased demands and in this case my research is focused on engage individuals age between 30 and 45 years old fully integrated into a professional and personal life.

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So after selecting this age period I analyze alter activism features as shown before within the context of the Chilean movement against a private pension system.

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So my idea is to test this concept of ultra activism within this older group to see to what extent is a applicable or not.

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So, now let me briefly introduce you to the study case. Yeah, a few words about that.

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So during the military dictatorship rule by Pincher, that the Chilean retirement system was profoundly modified and a private pension model came into place.

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During the early the early eightys and the social movement I'm looking into is a movement that emerged in 2,008 after the global financial crisis.

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Once multiple trade unions came together to protect workers savings. So because according to this model the savings are invested in the stock market so that's why but 60 years later in 2,016 massive mobilization started to occur involving a mix of trade unionists and citizen networks, mostly people without any political affiliation or political experience.

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And for this group, young adults become became sorry key actors in this more citizen activism which are also known as indignants so let's talk about methodology.

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This is part of a more incompatent research I was saying in the beginning, but in this particular case my analysis is based on 25 semi structure interviews conducted between 2,016 and 2,017 and in addition I did digital inography and producing by observation some Facebook groups coming from this citizens, indignant citizens as I was saying.

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So Facebook groups were the main organizing platform for this activists.

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And now let's move to the results, the juicy part. So I organized this into 5 main findings.

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Firstly, what I call a personal engagement. This means involvement in projects or concrete concrete. Tasks resonating with individual values rather than than rigid participation in SMOs.

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This case participation is is guided by assessing personal circumstances and available time because time because a valuable resource a very limited resource.

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This means of course prioritizing private life such as having partners, getting married, housecourse, kids, at leisure time.

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And in addition, the use of social media and the internet through various several devices like computers, tablets, phones, etc.

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So this encourages them to build up their own approach. By leveraging professional skills. A mastery of social digital networks.

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So here's the main challenge is to the distinguish between activism and leisure time on social media.

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And the second finding is what I call private life asks. A priority. Firstly, 2 main constraints emerge.

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The number of working hours. And home comprised of as I was saying in the beginning. Childcare, household responsibilities.

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When the one hand, for instance, Chileans have long work days, typically from 8 8 a. M. To 7 PM.

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And in addition they have domestic responsibilities as as we all do, especially childcare for young or school-aged children, which of course limits their activist involvement.

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And also, couples activities and household, household course. Restrict available time. So this means that they're limited and precious personal time because valuable resource which is associated with limited biographical availability.

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An example of this is that several interviews that I actually conducted with this activists were done during work hours at the workplace or during lunch breaks.

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So the way to overcome all these constraints comes from the will to participate, the desire to actually do something and to get involved.

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Into this social movement. This of course means adapting. Their participation. Which is actually my next finding.

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So these activists create individual strategies to overcome obstacles to participation. This means that from time to time they there's a variation in the intensity and frequency of their participation and for these matters technology plays a central role as a tool for online activism.

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Instead of staying physically together in the same room, they coordinated national assemblies on WhatsApp.

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And all these meetings were held late at night to accommodate their personal working schedules. For example, let me read you a quote from one of my interviewers.

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Down below. He says, this is how the meetings were conducted. They took place from 10 pm to midnight because that's when we would get back from work.

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Them during the day the phone would vibrate constantly and we would check messages on the bus on the way back home.

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And then when we got home, that's when we would have the meetings. And this is linked to my next finding.

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Which is related to mobilizing professional skills.

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Unlike many outer activists, this particular individuals already have education and professional experience. For example at school at the university and from professional work.

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For example, one activist that was also an engineer I remember use his computer science training to prevent for instance IP address blocking of their websites.

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Another example comes from a graphic designer who created a viral poster calling for the 2,016 protests expanding the online reach of the group.

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So upon this they have very specialized knowledge, master in social media and digital technologies. For example, one activist took charge of a popular Facebook fan page of this social movement reaching reaching nearly 100,000 subscribers.

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In just a couple of days. So this can be translated as algorithm expertise. These activists understand the role of fertilization, and there are multiplier effects.

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From sharing on social media. Through a trial and error method. They expanded beyond their individual networks, showing like a snowball.

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Effect. So let me read you another quote. From an activist featuring all of this. As you can see down below.

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He says an effective distribution typically reaches between 20,000 100,000 people and within that number you might connect.

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Around, yeah, 30%. We reach 1 million people and we didn't understand what we had achieved.

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The maximum reach was 3.5 million people this means that 3.5 million people receive information

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And the last finding. Comes from the overlap between activism and everyday life. So this happens because the use of social media for activism interfere with leisure activities, professional life and communication with FEMA.

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Of course, It blurs the boundaries between different spheres of life like nature activities, professional life and communication with family as I would say.

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So glaring these boundaries means that these activists are constantly available on social media platforms and this has an impact on stress levels and family neglect.

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Since they're all day looking at the mobile phone screen, they interrupt all this precious time. And for surpassing this situation, family and partners play a key, a crucial role.

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In supporting their activism. But of course, as usual, tensions arose. To the time and attention dedicated to online activities.

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For instance, some activists have to temporarily pause their activism? And system themselves from their phones due to relationship issues.

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So a good way to overcome this was to include Family, partners in this political participation, whether through moral support or physical engagement.

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That's how tensions can be, could be negotiated and help to keep participation from this. Activists in the movement.

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So I have a last quote here that showed these results. Here, an interview he says, I suffer from insonia for over a month, which means I was clue to the phone because the phone kept ringing all day long.

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Day now. So I gathered the phones, collected the numbers, connected the lines and coordinated the activity.

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Very intensive work. So, let's quickly wrap it up. Conclusions and so here I try as I was saying the beginning to show how this ultra activism framework expands the understanding of political engagement and participation of young adults.

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That is to say people between the age of 30 and 45 years old and this considered the effects of the life cycle in deploying activism.

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So in addition to the personalization of engagement is also important for this Not so young, but not so all anymore activists like in between but in a different way.

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First we professional and family roles, occupy a significant portion of their daily lives. Yes, they find why ways to overcome these constraints.

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By building an individual individualized engagement and creating more horizontal and democratic networks that work with their affinities, interests and skills.

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And all of this, through the intensive use of social media, which of course blurs the limits between activism and everyday life.

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This also provides expertise and they as they acquire new skills to handle these technologies. And last week because the technologies and social media are key for promoting participation so without them it would have been impossible to participate that.

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Yeah. So as, yeah, so last idea. I like to stress that this older activist, well, not, not that old, but still older activism, these young adults, brother established social roles, experiences and skills to the movement, to its success and shaping Chilean politics in the end.

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That's one I think. My opinion that's one of their main impacts but yeah that's That's a story for another time.

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So thank you.

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Thank you very much, Natalia. And, We have time to question, you can stay there because we are a

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Give us dog dinner.

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This course. Okay, there is any question or any comment about the presentation of Natalie?

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Yep. I'm gonna stay here in the spotlight. Actually, I'm a bit curious, to know if you have looked more closely to the areas your respondents engaged and if the level of engagement differs from the area of the topic they they engage in.

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Because that's maybe, you know. It's, it differs. Yeah, oh sorry and what areas your meet you mean I don't know, maybe like for example if someone is engaged more in a ecological for example issues or okay you mean yes it's more engaged and it's more time consuming, more energy

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consuming than other topics. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

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Oh, another.

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Thank you Natalia. Yes, it's like 3 question or so remarks. The first one is about the activism itself.

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It it could be also understood that a new way to do activism and for example other range of 8 I remember a certain movement in a Spain called judge of flutter so old people that they start to use for example the new technologies and to practice new ways of activism in this sense the same sense I would like also to ask you about

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what you consider online activism. So for example, 2. Reproduce or to send our message through Facebook or WhatsApp or whatever is considered a wave of activation or should be something more engaged like the people that you spoke that are really active in their activism.

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The third one is about the extension of this period of being young. Also because of the individualism process and the preparation as now it's really hard to find a job and to have these things that we consider to find a job and to have these things that we consider could be being an adult.

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I have a job and to have these things that we consider could be being an adult. I have a family, Marriott, leave your parent house, etc.

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Is also a thing to consider in your 30

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Thank you. Okay, let me Me make some comments so question I don't know

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You mentioned 5 different Conclusions I will do research and one I don't understand very well you can expand the explanation when you mention personalized engagement you at the end mentioned challenge I don't understand.

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The challenge you can, develop a little more this, this challenge and the second one I think that is a very important a result of your research that is Comparing with a how traditional activism and give a relevance to the participation in mobilization comparing with all generation for instance most of the time they

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dedicate it to the activation illusion waiting reduction of the private life or family life or world life.

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In this sense, we can say that these people have 1 one life dedicated to politics or to participate and in your case you found that there is not just the normal or the rule but the people prioritize the privacy life.

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And reduce the participation in activation in finding the summary when you situation and then I think that, yeah, I agree with you that this is, could be a very relevant situation that applied in other cases apart from the outer activation.

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In the sense that for new generation the centrality of the political participation is lower than it was for foreman generation.

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To be a very important Aspect of J. And the last comment is about these skills. Not really that analyze the mobilization in Spain and in other cases like the Arab Spring point out the centrality of how activists should bring their personalist skills to the mobilization and put them to the ability to mobilize people in

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society and civil society and civil society. And this is a very constant aspect of society or civil society. And this is a very constant aspect of our days. And this is a very constant aspect of our days.

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But the question is that If they are constitutional, or not, of the result of this kind of contribution because One thing is that, a big consciousness that you mobilize 3.5 millions of people and another thing is that what does mean for the mobilization because these people don't.

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Came to the mobilisation, they don't came to this street. So there is a kind of imbalance, not between the people that you reach through the social media, but these people are not mobilized really.

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Because they only read the information and that's it. So you can Yeah, yeah, thank you very much for your questions and comments.

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It's really great because there are a lot of ideas for your questions and comments. It's great because there are a lot of ideas and a lot of things that I can say I think we'll answer.

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In an incompetent manner all the questions. I think I'm gonna start with Antonio because you were yeah the Yea of Lotus I think you were mentioning yeah that's that's a really interesting case and If I understood correctly and tried to answer with my own research, I would say that in

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this case, these people, they were organizing. Yeah, they tried to get together online to organize like a big mobilization in 2,016 and one of the key And actually my research shows that they were the key actors for mobilizing people on the streets.

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That's one thing. But the other thing that's very important also to consider is the

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I don't know how to say like The politicization of the of the demand and the problem and that doesn't come from from them from this kind of people that comes from actually what becoming was stressing the trade unions.

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So on the one hand, you have like. Let's say regular people like not affiliated with political parties or they are not coming from political tradition many several of them I would say most of them they never voted for instance.

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They never had that kind of political participation. So the role was more to bring people to the streets. But the people that were actually doing like this political consciousness, this political work were trade unionists.

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And that's connected with what Mohammed was saying. One of my results was trying to yeah it's to some extent compare this all traditional activism come from trade unionists.

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All generations. That's actually another part of my research, people that were like, as you were saying, people er, that dedicated their life to to politics, you know, they're like professional activists, they get paid for that.

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And that's really interesting because That kind of people, unionists. They were really, what's the word like scared of working together with these kind of people that were not political engaged, you know, because it's like mixing different political traditions.

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Ways of participation, cultures of participation I don't know how to call it but It's like trying to work together and talk in different languages at the same time.

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So that's really interesting. And as you were saying also when coming in the centrality of political participation for young people is less central, I would say.

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That's that's interesting because what I found here is that Most of these people, they don't consider themselves as politicals, they actually say, yeah, I'm apolitical in Spanish.

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I don't believe in politicians, you know, I have a high mistrust of the government, etc.

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And I hate political parties. I hate politics. But at the same time they do like very strong statements about politics without saying that they're actually doing politics, you know?

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And that's really interesting.

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And also you were saying Benkamin about the if they were conscious about bringing this 3 about reaching 3.5 million people on the on social media.

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I think they felt empowered that they they have that kind of power and I think that's also interesting because at some point they believe that having 3.5 million clicks you know on the on social media translates automatically in 3.5 million people on the street which is of course not the case never you know and that's really interesting

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because that's when unionists came into place and tried to educate this people into saying okay if a million people would say that they will show up in your demonstration actually.

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Less than 10% will show in the demonstration because now that's how things work. You know social media is tricky, you know a lot of people say I will go to the demonstration but in the end they don't go so yeah And, Whoa, yeah, a lot of food for thought here.

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And about the demands, like the first question, I would say that in this case the demands were more related as I was saying in the beginning to the to struggling against the pension system.

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They were not really much more engaged into, as you were saying, like environmentalism. I wouldn't say that.

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It was more about You know, because in the in the Chilean case it's a private pension system.

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And people are actually the social movement was claiming to end with the Pension system model, you know But these activists were more related to not to end with the model but more about getting higher pensions you know which is different you know they didn't care about what kind of retirement model they wanted.

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They just wanted more. To get more money when they retire. So yeah, was really kind of instrumental.

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Yeah. Very different from the trade unionist. You know they're more engaging to overthrow in the model and making more like solidarity principle and stuff like that.

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Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for your questions.

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Yeah.

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What do you?

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Usually.

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And they should be there. Okay, a hi Vittorio Tavangi from the University of Milano Ricca.

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Hello everyone.

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We can see you, we can hear you, so. I we are dedicating around 20 min for your presentation.

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I think that would be okay. Romani Mobilisations. And later we will collect some questions and And comments, okay, go ahead.

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Okay, perfect. So I'll try and share my presentation.

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Dead.

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I believe you should be able to see it, right?

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Yeah, but fit.

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Okay. Thanks. So today we will present. Some of the elements, that emerge in one of the chapter, I'm currently drafting up my PhD thesis.

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And this chapter tries to shed light in particular on the gender and generational dynamics that happen that are happening within the Romani that is of Roma and ethnic mobilization in Italy so I don't know how many of you are familiar with the Italian context.

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So I wanted to start by giving you some snapshots on the antique season in Italy, antigicism being the specific form of racism that targets and racializes Roma and syntic communities.

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So first of all, in media policy and political discourses. They, are presented and constructed, along a continuum that goes from, risky people.

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So people who pose an economic and cultural threat to the broader Italian society to people at risk. So, vulnerable people that needs, that needs assistance from, they've also historically, being perceived and constructed as, just passing by the Italian context without actually belonging to it.

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Just despite the fact that if we look at for instance, Cindy communities in northern Italy or Roman provincial settlement in southern Italy.

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They have lived in Italian context since the early, fifteenth century. Most of them have, an Italian, Italian citizenship and Less than 3%, eating a job.

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But an aspect of anti-Gepsism that I believe it's it's very important for for this presentation in particular.

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It's it's gender nature. Romani communities. Are are seen and constructed as a pre-imoder and backwards communities are defined by Patarchy so defined by Romani women's subordination to Romani men and they They are seeing as living in our contemporary world, but at the same

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time they are essentialized. As being monolithic and communities that are not affected by broader changes that leave so in a in a past in the past time.

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Moreover, Romani men are also seen and perceived as a threat. To Italian white women.

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I believe this is evident in this poster by which is neo-fascist political movement in Italy

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And, I, this poster reads, if it was your mother, if it was your wife, if it was your daughter.

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Close the Nomad camps and expel, Roma from Italy, right now.

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So it's it's a call to Italian White, men to defend their mothers, daughters, wives, so Italian women and so it is possible to see also how sexism initially.

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Contributes to and informs and shapes antique season as well. And I think this premise, is important because, as I will highlight later on, this very recognition shapes the activism especially of younger Romani women.

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But I believe it is also important because at this presentation it's Very sharp. On N.

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Can you? Yeah, okay. Number one's picture of a sexy that in Romanian communities.

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So that is why I decided to focus especially on the fight of Romani women to combat antique season.

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And as I said, it's both because it's one of the generational developments that that are that are happening but at the same time it's also not to reinforce these very stereotypes as I said.

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So what, and Initiative organised by actors involved in the Romani ethnic mobilization in Italy that is by Romani-led organizations and networks but also single an affiliated activist, artist and digital activists.

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I also, carried out semi-structured interviews, with Romani women and men belonging to different political generation.

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And here I rely on the Nancy Wheat here and I am a political generation as comprising those Romani activists who joined the mobilization in the same period of time.

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So I believe that in addition to allowing to explore internal processes. Of change. The organization is also useful to to shed lights to explore, how many activists own self-understanding on their generational, how many activists own self understanding on their generational, self understanding on their generational, on their generational, belongings.

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So, when I will talk about first political generation, I will talk about first political generation, I will refer to those Romanian generation, I will refer to those Romani activists who joined, I will refer to those Romani activists who joined the mobilization in the yearly, to

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thousands. And I will talk about, whenever you mention, second political generation or younger political generation.

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I will refer to, those activists who joined in the early 2,010. And of course.

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People belonging to the second political generation are also generally, younger. They are age between 20 to 35 years or more or less.

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Roughly. So as I said, this approach allows to explore processes of change happening in the mobilization.

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One first change that I wanted to mention. Is the greatest participation of Romani women the greater engagement of the Roman women especially Younger, Romani women.

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And this is in line with, Participation of women in Italian contests in broader like in other collective action fields.

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And i believe this development is captured by this excerpt that I that I reported here.

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For instance, M. When talking about the changes that, she sees around her, in preparing particular to the mobilization she said.

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A lot of things are starting to change in Italy. I see that there are a lot of young people fighting, which before was really 2, 3 men doing activism.

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It's good to see that there are now a number of young people fighting for their rights, especially girls, because activism has always been narrated from a purely male perspective and only recently at ethnic role perspective and only recently at ethnic Romo even also gained this strength discouraged to be active in politics.

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In the movement and this is also confirmed by a Who said, I see Romani women at the forefront.

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Romani women are stronger and more determined, more pissed off. They're more pissed off because if I have to criticize the Romany world, there is a Oh.

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These excerpts, also capture a recording motif, emerging from my field work that is, the greater participation of.

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Romani women as Romani women. So moving from the problematization not only of the processes of rationalization, they are subject to, but also on the system of oppression based on sexism they are subject to.

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So, here intersectionality is. Use both, explicitly and explicitly to make sense, from, life experiences and experience.

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And of oppression. And alongside this, change and brought forward must not be by a second political generation activists it is possible to see processes of change also among Romani women belonging to the first political generation in this sense For instance, Yeah, when talking about the activist past.

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And she reported how to tell you the truth I maybe am a little bit feminist maybe I became one maybe I was not like that.

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However, I started, my, sorry, this last few years I started to do my battle within my community at the feminine level in the last 4 or 5 years more or less.

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She says that she had this transformation at least by leaders so Just to possible to see. Changes over time.

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And an quality changes brought forward by cohort where we played a replacement within the mobilization.

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As I, anticipated at the beginning of this, presentation. Especially the activism of younger, Romani women is shaped by, by the fact that the recognition of the fact that sex is in Italian context, if the influence and contributes to shaping, antitism and so

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creates, in creating racist. Stereotype so they see their own engagement as as Romani women and in general the engagement of Romani women as a tool as the means to, challenge.

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Is economic representations and I think this is captured by a these 2 excerpts. For instance, Emma, when talking about her own engagement she says.

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And she said, also this thing of creating different narratives. Naratives that have always been described mainly from a purely white perspective.

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And so that's precisely why I think it is important to have this figure figures especially of Roma women who are somehow spoke spoke person so complicated.

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These narrative and when talking about further expanding on her Activist past and especially on her, ultimate goals, she sees, of, her activism, she said, and that is to give value to women precisely to combat these somewhat centres or colonial idea of pattern pea that exists only in

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Roma communities. So that what they they strive for especially people belonging to this second generation second political generation but how do they do that And here, it is, It's also connected to another generation development that emerged.

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From my field work, that is the use of art as as a an option ripper to our by younger Romani activists.

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So I think that, a fitting example in this sense, is, the, theater play.

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I also participated in as an actor. Yeah, calls the importance of ethnic coming out.

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Proud to be, Roma and SIM team. And the overall goal of the display which mostly relied on monologues from the actors that mmm that were, for money.

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Actors as there were 3 actors, actresses actually. 2 of whom were also pure, persons.

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Hear women. And so the overall goal, was to raise awareness on the consequences of antique season both in the past mostly referring to the genocide.

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That happened under anti-fascism, but also the presence. So see in in making connection between past and present.

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Antigp season and its consequences on their personal lives. And, also to inspire potentially many people in, the audience, but And what also these theatre plays was trying striving to achieve was also to changing a jimanni prejudices that depicts the Roma

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Romani women as a monolithic as a monolithic as a monolithic as a monolithic group.

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And they did that by, telling their life stories from their from their complex and multiple positionities that is not only as go-money persons not only as women but also as peer persons as that have also differences in terms of a citizenship status and so on so to.

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Complexify, another wise, monolith perception that see them as as monolithic and at the same time.

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Their very presence on stage as Romani women was also seen as a tool to combat as I said in my previous life this idea of Romani women as being passive victims of the context they find themselves in and especially of and of Romani men.

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And. Sorry? Okay.

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And, the dismantling of Domina narratives, regarding Romani women is also a part of the work of other Romany artists and activists such as Luna And I think, the most evident, and clear, example or of these in in art is constituted by this art piece

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called the manifesto of Roma of Roma women. And it is not possible to be, from the picture, but I also because it's in Italian, but I also because it's in Italian but I briefly translated it in English and what she said.

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What she says is our body is not a biological dateon, but an inscription field of social codes.

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So this is it is referral to how meanings and representation are are given to them rather they don't have agency over their own representation and activism in this sense is also a way to reclaim their voice over their own and in agency of how they are represented.

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We are multiple diversification of the subjectivity runner, Romani women. We cannot bear silence.

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We are here. We are, mothers, open, fluid, spiritual, ready to be seen with our own true biographies.

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And identities. So we can see that I believe it. The 2 and both the tetraplay and these artists go in the same direction in this sense.

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Here I

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Come to a third and then, generational, development brought forward by, younger, Rooney activists is their conception of intersectionality as intersectionality of struggles that is as giving support to the struggle of other minoritized groups.

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Which are indirectly and that leads to the supporting of subgroups within Roman communities. And I would like to highlight that this is also in line with broader developments in collective action field, various collective action fields in Italy action field various collective action fields in Italy and especially and in those, influenced by,

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third and arguably fourth. Wave and feminism and I think this is captured for instance in this actual excerpt, from Paco.

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And who when talking about, his own engagement and that of the association he founded and his partner.

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He said we are for intersectional battles with our association, we do intersectional battles.

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We don't just work in favor of the Cinti or Roma but they encompass all forms of discrimination.

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So I think this is important because there can be no fight against discrimination if you don't fight all discrimination.

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And, this conception of their own, engagement, intersectional engagement as intersectionality of struggles is also strictly linked to their also there.

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The way that they see their activism as fighting All discriminations and not simply, that's, antigpsy and consequences.

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And this is also once again captured by Yvanka when she said intersectionality is important. If you are an activist, whatever your struggle is, it is right that you do your struggle.

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However, you have to fight for others as well. So it is possible to see. How to towards building a alliances and qualities with other organizations or single activists.

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Who are parts of other collective action fields. Still, despite their efforts, intersectional activism mostly that of intersectionality of struggle is still a limited phenomenon in Italian context.

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This is partially doomed to to the fact that Romani mobilization itself is very young. It started, in the early 2,000 and as I mentioned earlier and intersectional activism.

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Is and I something that started to emerge. Here. Also, emerge from my field work is, the obstacle that is posed by antigism itself.

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So the very what they try to combat with their activism in creating meaningful alliances with other, with other organizations and groups, because, anti-GYPeism Okay, yeah, in the in the spaces.

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Yeah, so, some of the Romani activists interacted with my field works. Are skeptical towards beginning alliances as well because as a consequence of blatant, racist, episodes, that they experience or lack.

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Okay. Because, system is normalized and I think this is really something that is captured in.

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And this episode, to is intersectional activism a table. An episode in the podcast, which means more Roma less RAM.

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By, Roma activist Ivan Linkovich. And, this, episode was shot after, the limited visibility and support they received.

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Especially one of the one organization, which is called Catanya Movement, received, for an online campaign that they launched.

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And coordinated the campaign was full of by the indignation and rage following the death of a young Roma girl in Greece.

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Who was left to die on the streets by the passerby after being thrashed by an automatic gate.

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So it's. In the campaign. Couldn't be in sharing a selfie, with the, for us.

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It continues. And here, Marina Pedelli with a Cindy, activist who was in charge of the outreach.

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For this campaign that reported how, they contacted 70 or organizations association and collectives.

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7 responded and 3 4 took the picture. And she said, I think that, this can explain a lot.

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The evidence response they got when I proposed this campaign was that it was a controversial topic or that they would ask But where were the parents?

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And here, this is, really in line with, racist perception that they see that see, Romani.

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Oh, of caring, for, for their children. So we can see also here how anti-depthism is depressed and normalized in spaces and she said anything but alright I share it which was supposed to be the point of the thing.

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By the way, the photo was not shared in groups were into activism and here we can see also the frustration.

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That I refer to previously. And, Ivan Nikolich as well in this conversation reported their own frustration in referring not in particular to moving from from this lack of support for this campaign but also considering your activist path in general and she said why why do Gaja people that is not Romani people in Romanes not participate

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for what reasons why do participate in the Black Lives Matter movement or LGBTQ community movement but not for us.

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That's why in the podcast we have we have the question of intersectional activism if it's a fairy tale what is intersectional activism is it really a fairy tale that we tell each other among activists Is it a part on the back that we give each other?

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Because when it comes to supporting us, No, why don't why don't you join us in the streets when we do the demonstration why in the simplicity of a photo of a selfie with Aztec you don't share it.

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Why do you have a hard time having empathy for us? Why do we have a hard time simply sharing a post in which we tell our story.

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So yeah, it is possible to see how. There are as some generational, and developments within, We didn't the mobilization but what they try to combat and our antique season is still, is too strong in the Italian context.

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And with that, I conclude my presentation and here if you want, there are some references. So thank you.

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Is

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Thank you, Etolo, for the presentation and now we have time for question.

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Hi Victoria, I'm Magdalena from Poet and I find your presentation super interesting. Thank you.

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And, Especially you mentioned that Romani activists build alliances with other minoritized groups And so I have a question.

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Do they also build ISIS or a established transnational links or cooperation with other Romani activist groups from other countries.

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Especially that you mentioned that there you interviewed Romani activists with migrant background. So I would be very interested.

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Yeah, today.

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Okay. Thanks.

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Okay.

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Antonio? Yeah.

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And thank you, your presentation. Yeah, I have, I mean I really like, I don't know if this is a word and the poster that you saw because it's reflecting something that is happening in the far right right now how they associate for example motherhood with nationhood is a clear example of this new Oh, it's not that new because for

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example, we, we, is talking about this kind of reputation since the seventies that is not basic in the race but in other kind of since the seventys that is not based in the race but in other kind of things like the traditions that we as the developed people have.

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Arrive at other people that are coming from outside they don't and it's why we have to prevent our girls, our mothers, our sisters to be violated at that time.

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It's the same that it's happening in Spain for example with books and them in this case for Cosette especially in the young Moroccan immigrants.

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And Johnson like Alice Migran that are coming to Spain so it's really interesting how I was thinking for example how this anti-diversity is also intersectional and we can see things like gender, race, nationalism, etc.

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So it's a really nice example. And the other thing I was really surprised about how many collectives and people you have to interview at least to ask for an interview you know because in this thing we also have Romani people and Romani gypsies but they are not er, organic size.

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I mean, we have acute and organisation of Gypsy people that is the Secretary of Fitano but it's other kind of GC people that are in Spain for the last 500 years.

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So they are also discriminated by different things but it's absolutely different so my question is about a generation how long has been in Italy and how many do you see Romanis are estimated to be there?

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Thank you.

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I have a following this comment of, Antonio. I have questions that came to my mind.

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Because this new generation of activists bring a different point of view to the claims of the community Roma community.

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And I would like to ask you to what extent This imply a internal conflict or produce internal conflict with other more traditional views and claims.

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Inside the community. It seems to me that some of these rave vindication claims are difficult to get the consensus inside the community.

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But this is my my girlfriend of science. The question is How many conflicts there is any conflict in terms of the Roma community as consequence of this new term inside the claims.

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Yep. Okay, when you are ready you can answer it

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Okay, thank you for the very interesting questions first of all. And so regarding the transnational, alliances.

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They, are also, Strike, they also strive to create transnational and alliances by participating in there are those international youth networks, youth Romani networks for instance.

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And, the participation of older Romani activists in transnational networks for instance in the that's constituted by the Council of Europe.

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4 instance or intersection in the international sorry organization like open society that open society foundations, source foundations.

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Was very important to establish activism in Italy in the first place in the last decades. But, so younger.

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Younger people participate in this transmission networks also because, despite the, of course, national specificities.

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And that there are as there are specific CTs within, also national communities. But anti-Gism is endemic in every everywhere in every in every country that has a Romanian population in it.

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European context and but also in the US for instance. So yes. There is, they, they, there is, they participate in tenip, but also, one thing that is very important, also for activism.

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Is, as I briefly mentioned, the, fights to make genocide that happened during Nazi Fashism during Second World War were recognized.

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So they're also going to in Poland for instance, in Auschwitz. With other fellow activists from other countries is is something that is that is very important for the Romani ethnic mobilization from activists belonging to the Romani ethnic mobilization from activists belonging to the Romani ethnic

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group. Yes, there really is. Hey, regarding the parallel between that Antonio I believe mentioned.

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And between the poster that I briefly mentioned and. And the far right discourses in Spain right now.

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II can totally see that because it's not something that of course is only happening in antigpsyism is part of antique season but if we look for instance at the posters of or the way black soldiers from US Army during like Second World War.

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So after 1,943 where we're also constructed as posing a threat to white women, but in general, racialized men.

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This whiteness and in Italy it's the internal the enemy of course are Romani communities but of course also my friends coming to this category.

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As a It's also, this practice so I totally agree. With that and actually I was surprised by your comments regarding the, the, active Romani activism in Spain because it is actually one of the most, the older.

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Yeah, mobilization and more let's say I don't want to say advance but with more following and also regarding feminists Roma feminist activism it's a let's say a point of reference for other mobilizations as well.

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And and regarding the numbers, in Italy, there are no clear numbers because you can understand that leaving in such an aggressive context a large portion of how many people hide their identity do not declare that they are Roma and Cindy, also because there are no clear trades, to define what being romantic

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means. There are light scheme. So for instance, they don't in Italy, they're not necessarily linked to their scheme call.

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So it is estimated that there are around one, 180,000, or many people living in Italy.

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The majority is constituted by, er, and rural venture settlement who as I said have been living.

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In the talent context since early fifteenth. And like, as you said, 500 years for, in Spain.

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Regarding possible internal conflicts. Of course, there are, there are because, they, as I said, they, they operate in a racist context that, racialized them based on a suppose not suppose because there is of course patriarchy in Roman communities but as there is in broader Italian

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society but in a content that gives power to Patriarchy to define and to essentialize and Romanian communities.

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So there are some sections also in the mobilization itself that are against publicly tackling for instance sexism in Roman communities as some of the activists and do and as it was possible to see from some of the excerpts there is also there are also criticism directed towards their communities.

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Their activism. I didn't have the time of course to present it here, but is also especially for younger generations it also moves from it's also present in their in interpersonal domain in their immediate traditional context so within their families and communities as well and this of course creates conflicts.

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But I also would like would like to stress that. 6 season that there is in these communities but also is present in, in the mobilization itself.

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Of course. Is something that cuts across, different spheres and, and, and, context.

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Is not something that is only present in this mobilization, but there are Studies that I reported for a single work of, I men came to mind of minority for instance.

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Shows how It's something that is present in collective action fields more generally in the talent context. So yes, there are conflicts, of course, also different perspectives on what activism should strive for.

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And because also they are not our homogeneous community. That is, you have of course, families and communities where, criticism of sexism are really welcomed and we have others where it's less so.

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So there are also differences because of course it's not a homogeneous group. But thank you for the for the questions.

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Okay, thank you very much. A video and I don't know if there is any more questions for Vittorio or for Natalia Miranda if there is not more question comments or

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Interpolation we can finish the session here and Thank you very much to What 10 is the the session?

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Physically and also for the people that connected through the build tool. And, okay, II hope you can enjoy your day, your afternoon or your night, whatever you wear.

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Situated now. OK, thank you very much and good

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Thank you. Thank you very much. From the panel organizers. Thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.