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Thank you. So good morning everyone. Early morning and welcome. Yes, yeah, yeah, and we checked.

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That should be OK. I welcome you to the session on risk and space, reception and risk normalization.

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And I offered the session for TGO far with the idea that risks are And you want to distributed and we it's an interesting and important to look at the patterns of the special distributions.

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And I'm so glad that they were very nice submissions to the session and the fits with each other very well so we would we would have very nice discussion today this morning.

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And each of the presentation will have 15 min. So I suggest that we go through each of the presentations and then we have a round of the questions after all the presentations.

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So, 15 min for you and when there are 5 min left I will show you and when there is 0 min probably I will wave you then.

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Yeah, but we have nice time and so I invite for speaker Omai Essi from East London, South Africa.

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Yes. Okay.

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Okay.

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Yeah, hear it. Morning, So, this morning I will be presenting on the topic when development becomes a threat to society.

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We've been looking at the risk perceptions on social. Vulnerability in a road project called the Into Root Project.

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In South Africa's wide coast. This is an ongoing research we are still on it. It's not yet fully done.

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Okay, so

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Tell about it, parts which are not going to bog you with now. So.

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A brief introduction here, given a background of to this very region in South Africa for you to be able to appreciate The problem after this presentation that is need to understand the history of the formation of the South African State.

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So for about during around 40 years or so. The was this white minority government that we had in South Africa.

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And it was the racist. And, discriminatory system of, government The racism on the Russia, you know, implications of that regime.

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Did not affect only the Huma society, it was affected land. So. The Eastern Cape. I should say was the most affected part of.

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South Africa and within the Eastern Cape a wide cost where you have the right arrow. Bore the bread test.

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Brun of that. Period. So.

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At some point The appetite, government created what was called the the Bantu Stones, minimum, you know.

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Some black ink leaves whose lunch were taken and splitter for their cheap label. It was a systematic institutionalized policy of depriving and empowering the order

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So the region was denied every form of basic infrastructure. Is arable land were taken and given to white earned funds.

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So it also became the hotbed of the Anti apartheid struggle. And great leaders of the movement were all born in this area.

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Nelson Mandela, you know, he came from there. Oliva Tambo, Mr. Biko, so many of them, you know, were all born in this area.

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Okay. So we are going to be focusing mainly on the wide cost, which has about 300 and so about 300 kilometers of orange point.

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Sun dunes between the great Sky River and the Tambuna River in order was close to East London from Istanbul to Iran port Edward.

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So this area. Is rich in all forms of minerals, especially that I tell them all. Is also a center for plant endemism in Africa.

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There are several plants in this area that you cannot find in any biome in the world. And it has very rich offshore gas deposits as well.

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It's a natural breeding ground for wells. And that is what we call the annual sardine run when you have millions of sardines migrating from the Antarctica, you know, towards the the southern part of Africa is actually on now.

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It is a spectacle in a warehouse. Millions of fish coming offshore and they have wells and sharks and the human beings or competing for this.

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Fish Also, the place is inhabited by the Koso ethnic. Indigenous people.

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Of South Africa. So the wide cause was neglected for so long by the Government and what it meant was that the region didn't have any meaningful form of development at all.

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So it was highly improvised. This is a typical village or hamlet in the wide coast.

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Look out the way that their roots, you know, are. You know yeah so it is not is the most impoverished parts of the country anyway.

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And the Human Index Human Development index is also quite low. It has approximately 44% of unemployment.

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No school, 20 and above is quite high, 19.4% and internet access is a problem there.

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That's about 83.9% of no internet electricity distribution has gone up since 1,994 when the apartheid system ended so we now have like 60% of this area covered.

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And pipe bomb water. Only 2.3% on flush toilet in this modern era only 1.1% of the households.

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And this kind of from a survey that was conducted only last year. So it's not like what happened in the 19 twentys or 1,900 fortys.

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So. The post appetite government which came in in 1,900 and 94. You know, thought that for this region to be developed.

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That there should be an injection of infrastructure. infrastructures, especially road networks because it is not motorable anyway.

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So they call it a game changer. The developmental plan was to be based on the consumption of different roads.

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But especially what they're called the material and to Toe road that would run you know from is London all the way to Durban.

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And I was just, that's like, a discount of about 550 to 560, kilometers.

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And this road would pass through the White Coast anyway. So that was the plan of the post apartheid state.

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The argument was that it would open up the White House for business. It would lead to development of local economic potentials, especially angry businesses because this area is quite rich.

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I mean, it has very good soil. It has, very good, touristic venues.

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So the argument was that it would lead to redressing the historical injustice of the apartheid state that last year for the 320 years anyway.

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However, that is a blind side to this particular argument, you know. Before the conception of the road project, the government discovered a lot of minerals, you know, especially gas.

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You guys are offshore gas in this area. And, the sun dooms. Reaching titanium.

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So it became like an an intersection here, you know, road network and mining. And this community is very opposed to my name and I don't want mining whatsoever, The government never brought that up.

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So all the towards the people who are that are gonna build the road to develop your your community.

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However, the mayor is in behind that it was found was because of their intention to mine and not really to you know create access to this area.

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So, there had been a very serious movements that have rejected both the roads and in my own end.

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It's been going on now for over 20 years. They've been in courts in and out of court.

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And that has, continued ever since. So. I'm gonna be a bit faster now, so.

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The theoretical interpretation of this in terms of risk is what's big. Giddens and casters argued that societies that are deeply embedded in fear of Domination by the orders tend to have higher risk.

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Perceptions sense of precarity and vulnerability than the orders so such societies have higher rate of risk oppression and are usually more concerned with maintaining existing social order than accepting change.

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So such factors such as the collective memory of modernization. Is question from mastering society and other forms of fear of the order contribute to high perception of risk.

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So, development projects such as, you know, building this very, you know, wonderful roads.

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Has been interpreted as being risky to this this part of the country. Because of time again, let me, let's also look at the myths of nature's Some topology which draws on the casualty of risk.

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Perception so according to Michael Thompson and his colleagues there are different ways in which societies view risk.

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Some, you know, is natural, nature is seen as, capricious for some it is tolerant.

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And for some is benign, you know, wise to some others, nature is Fragile, depending on your own cultural linen anyway.

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So for the capitalist actors such as the local communities Nature is top resource for the hierarchical actor.

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Nature is Don around once it is managed within Saturn limitation. Why for the market at all. Nature is is benign, it is resilient.

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And can withstand any amount of troubles. So, well, egreta actors such as, the advocacy, communities, nature is fragile.

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So any disturbance of those balls, you know, especially for the the NATO, FMR, you know, made that network, you know, we role.

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Or so. That's represents and nature. So what we found was that risk. Has been perceived in 3 many different ways.

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That's the risk to identity and social fabric. So these are some of the findings that that we had.

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Somebody said, no, we don't want, we don't want. And I say we don't want this route.

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It will affect our families and our future generations. It will destroy who we are Our fields will be carved apart by this road our livestock will be killed and our ancestral griefs will be destroyed or relocated.

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Definitely I'm determined to fight and so forth. That is also a risk. About mining. Somebody else, you know, told us, there is nothing called development with the A/C government.

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The government is the ruling party since 1,994. So according to this guy, this road is only only about mining.

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So some of the ministers have not hidden their interest in the titanium and gas. They say we have here.

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So. And finally, we also found the risk. To existing livelihoods You know, lots of hard time.

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What do the people want? They want the development of tourism. You know the touristic endowment of this province is next to nothing and it is good so this is what they call Saddin Ron, where you have fish and all of that.

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Wells, you know, we have so many of them coming up there to reproduce yearly. That is also other.

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Features

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So, several tourists take. Places that you can develop instead of mining also this is the center of plant endemism in the world in fact, there are several places that we can find anywhere.

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Okay Thank you very much.

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And then, us.

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So. From Spain but I present Yes. I explain that now. Perfect.

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Thank you so much. And so, hi everybody, thank you to be here at this hour. I'm Alex Boso from FEMA.

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Timatiza research center belonging, belong to the Ministry of Science in Spain. But I was 7 years of my life working in Naruvascal at Fonttera in Chile.

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And this time I lost all all my abilities to speak English so I bring some notes to to be in time and I present the work that II did in in.

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So the Mukwan Paradelas Casas are cont with cities located in southern Chile, classified by the World Health Organization as being among the 10 cities.

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With the worst air quality in Latin America. Every winter both cities present Severe and Constantine episodes of environmental emergency due to the levels of particular matter that widely exceed the standards established by both the World Health Organization and Thailand Ministry of the Environment.

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Who like, that water occurs in other countries, their pollution in sort of the chilli is stationary and originates in home heating practices.

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The file wood burning from technologically inefficient heaters Unstoge generates many emissions that have been associated with an millisecond problem which runs from slight discomfort such a irritation or headaches to relatively serious diseases such as cardiovascular problems or even certain types of of cancer.

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Only to show something. And you can see the level of particular matter, 2.5 that is 247 and the World Health Organization say that the maximum level is 25 or now say that it's 15 only so it's a no more than 10 times the level that it's healthy.

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Picture is my lovely neighbor in D. So, an extensive literature in environmental justice research has showed a relationship between air pollution and certain social attributes that usually define the conditions of people lives.

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For instance, several studios conducted mainly in countries in the global north suggests that low socioeconomic status industrial minority population are disproportionately exposed to air pollution.

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More recently in the environmental justice literature has extended its concerns to uncovering special patterns of inequality in the exposure to environmental dungeons by studying this ecosystem processes that explain how people perceive risks and make decisions to protect their health.

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Risk perception usually plays a relevant role when guiding the behaviors of protection, mitigation and involvement of the for the control of urban atmospheric pollution hence understanding the condition under which people tend to under or overestimate air pollution risk is a karexy to planning effective measures for communities and health protection.

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In some in the same city we can find different abilities to face environmental dangers and some social groups are not only more vulnerable than others because they are more exposed.

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To the to the tools pollution but because they perceive it in a inadequately.

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So here are my my results questions. How is the special distributed? The air pollution is specially distributed in the cities polluted by air pollution especially distributed in the cities polluted by wood smoke, which viruses that are specially distributed in the cities polluted by wood smoke, which viruses that remind different levels of individual exposures and what

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factors that are mine the difference when people perceive and confront the risk that air pollution poses. So I bring here 2 studies, one studies of outdoor, outdoor, exposures and risk perception and another studies about indoors.

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Yeah, in the first study we integrate primarily survey data with geographically the pilot estimates of air pollution exposures and IRA label characteristic characteristics obtain it from Chilean sensors.

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So first we made a survey data during 2,020 winter and we apply this this survey in in the Mukon parallel classes.

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The student, the study finally worked with a sample of 586 residences including in the sample only those cases that report at home address to perform a 0 0 referencing analysis.

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And we, we We, take data from the Chilean track Central Strug Information.

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Well, write a book that isn't a proxy to to house income because it's very difficult to catch to capture house income in online survey.

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So we have information about the percentage of hosts with low quality rules in the central track area of the person that are serving it and the person doesn't touch of unemployment in this central truck area.

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And finally we have data of air pollution of particular particular matter and here we take 2 to sources of data.

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First we use the network of the Ministry of Environment which is composed of 3 monitoring official stations and second because it is 3, 3 stations is not so much.

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We boiled our Negro, which is made to 22 low-cost stations, calibrated with the official stations using beta attenuation like like this.

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This was in my in my home too. So, let's go to the results. In this viewer, we have the special distribution of the average particular matter concentrations levels.

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In August, 2,020. And the first that we can see is that an heterogeneous distribution with 5 sectors where the contamination is more pronunciated and and it's important to say that in this this file sectors are residential areas.

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And this I believe that is the first the first discover that we made because policymakers say air pollution is a problem.

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They haven't these kind of things in a com. This is only an approximation but tend to be a special distribution.

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Perception maps and we have 2 2 maps in the first map we can see the air quality perception and in the second math we can see the distribution of risk perception.

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And in the second math we can see the distribution of risk perception index. And you can see that people are aware.

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And you can see that people are aware, mostly people know that the city are well mostly people know that the city are polluted but there are some areas some zones in which people know that the city are polluted but there are some areas some zones in which people think that there are some areas some zones in which people think that air pollution is not a

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problem, some zones in which people think that air pollution is not a problem. And if you go to the risk, we say that air pollution is not a problem.

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And if you go to the risk, we say that air pollution is not a problem. And if you go to the risk, we say that the thing change and there is more h that are thinking that the pollution is not a problem and a lot of people that have a hide the risk, scores.

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And, oh sorry. It is difficult to to compare but if you See this first map and this other you can see that There is no correlation upper in correlation between the distribution of air pollution and the the one.

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So we need to go in depth to the to the results to the to the determinants of of these 3 bibles.

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Here we have 3 models, one model for exposure. The second model is for air quality perception and the third model is for the reception index.

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And the first model that the uses the label or exposure participants to particular matter as a dependent variable, we can see that as we can see that as the age of participant increases the exposure increases.

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On the other hand, as the level of education increases, the exposure decreases. And when the percentage of poor quality roofs increases in their responses sensors track, the exposure to air pollution also increases.

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In the second mobile, the uses are quality perception as a dependent variable. We can see that residents of home with children under under 3 years are more aware.

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And in contrast, all their participants and good morning staff users are less aware. And finally in the third model we that we use an index of risk perception as a dependent variable we can see that would stop users perceive air pollution as less dangerous than users of other type of heating technologies.

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And women perceive higher air pollution health risk levels. So this is the name of our is the name of a film, but is the name of our paper.

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So and I come back to this in the discussion. So in the second 5 min, okay, I am time.

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In the second study we go in that we endeavor we enter in the house we go to 81 dealings in in Tamuko and Parallelas Casasas.

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We bought 12 devices with Arduino to see 2 things. First, the air pollution in home, temperature and humidity and to see the perception of people of of these environmental things.

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Pollution it was the most important but the temperature it was important too and we compare the perception of residents with the perception of visitors, of the people that arrive with the sensor.

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Okay, and we have some discoveries that I believe that are important. First, we discover a directing a strong correlation between particular matter inside and outside home and both classes exceeded the healthy levels recommended by a World Health Organization in the first picture you can see the line that is outdoor particular matter and if you can see they are

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very close to the levels of indoor particular matter and vary in function of home activities from 5 pm increase because the moment that people arrive, a cook and hitting the horses and are very close.

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Second, and these are preliminary results, so I can bring today the models but we found that we can explain almost 80% of indoor pollution by only 4 variables.

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First, outdoor pollution levels. Second, a year of hosts was willed. All the horses are more polluted.

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3, a home income poorer horses are more polluted and homes temperature called their horses are more polluted too.

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And we discover that a lot of homes had serious difficulty in reaching comfort levels are behind 21 Agrees that is the comfort level in the in the living room and finally we discover that approximately 75% of people that were in heavily contaminated inorspaces were unable to perceive this problem.

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In other words, there is a general tendency to overestimate indoor air quality and it is a general tendency to overestimate indoor air quality and it is both residents and visitors.

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But there is some difference of 10 points that are here. That we attribute to Homo So finally to conclude.

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Only some some points face despite the wood burning stuff are being dispersed through all the city, the concentrations of particular matter are not distributed homogeneously.

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We can see some sectors more polluted than others when the contamination that are related especially to individual and contextual socio demographic variables we can discover environmental inequality patterns.

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We identify low educated adults who live in neighborhood with poor living conditions as an environmental injustice community, they not only suffer through, hey, expose, they, from higherERSPITIES to air pollution, but also tend to have difficulties to evaluating the severity of the environmental risk they are facing.

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There's the results are not relevant for the meteorological challenge that involves in a special relation.

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Real pollution perceptions social demographic that it's very complex but I believe that our funding's core attention to the situation of all the others in Chile, the limitation of the Chilean tensions and health system means that ready this must face a situation of economic deprivation and lack of access to health care in addition of living in

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poor environmental cities and having difficulties to use alternative files. On the other hand, a collective attenuation of risk perception among other communities, especially men, who are disproportionately exposed to high levels of air pollution may reinforce the distributional injustice.

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This is copying with. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

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Thanks a lot and then we move to online presentation. And it would be also nice to see our talker on the screen.

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Yeah.

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Okay, and

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Okay, so next desk. 16. And so Please with your presentation.

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Thank you very much. Hello. My name is Christopher and I am a sociologist from other Mitsubishi in Postmani.

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Poland, today or for me tonight, I would like to present you environmental anxieties and coping strategies, comparative study of Poland, Ukraine and Hungary.

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This presentation I have prepared together with my research team, Darya, Claudia, Machi, and Esther.

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Oh

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And, I divided this presentation in, free mine parts research context, project answer and, current work.

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A starting with the research context. Currently anxieties and fears upset the social order earning it the name of risk society and forcing us to adapt, say, public policies that will enable us to better cope with this particular risk.

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And this, risk thinking. And it tends us to grow and result in policies designed to prevent not only actual but also the potential ones, of which the number is actually infinity.

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And the light motive of such public policies is according to some researchers, a precautionary principle, which appears in European Union or United Nations.

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Policies. It should be also remembered that fears and anxieties are to some extent socially constructed.

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And we can assume that we are afraid of what the group. We belong, we belong to, is afraid of.

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And it is the role of conformity. Or what the people we consider important, will point out, which is the role of authorities.

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According to Hungarian British sociologist, Frank Ferdi. Our culture is actually increasingly turning into a culture of fear.

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And it lead us to the next slide, which is about this culture of fear. Which is characterized by several Hello, and among other things, let's say there are, let me mention 3 of them, the loss of courage to express judgment about reality.

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Perception of uncertainty. Mmm in cultural fear is a problem rather than an opportunity. And, and there is also an unwillingness to take risk and experimentation.

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And

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Distinguishing between fear and anxiety is not a simple task because the 2 phenomena are also connected. However, there are some main differences which, I identified also in literature.

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First of all, fear has a concrete object while anxiety does not. The second one is that fear is rather external and anxiety is internal.

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And moreover, fear can be counteracted while anxiety is more accompanied by helplessness.

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Fourth one is the fear is of something being an objective threat. And anxiety is to a greater extent the subjective.

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And because of that, fear is also easier to rationalize. And anxiety is more, difficult to rationalize.

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And in our project, we decided to focus on the anxieties as problems as for example climate change or environmental degradation are relatively gradual and abstract and do not constitute immediate threats so they are more more related to, er, anxiety.

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A what recent research shows us about anxieties. First of all, fears and anxieties might differ between countries.

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And secondly, being forced to evaluate the importance of environmental threats, for example in surveys to together with other significance with other anxieties not related to environment.

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A significantly lowers the importance of environmental anxieties. Next. Fear and anxiety is rarely part of sociological research that are taken for granted as an element of other social phenomena, for example, social contracts, social structures, etc.

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There are also few studies on anxieties and most of them are focused on Western countries context.

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Er the existing research as for example the one I discussed by Freddie are rather theoretical consideration without empirical verification.

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And going to the answer project, the aim of our project is to conduct empirical research on both anxiety and coping strategy in comparative perspective in 3 Central Central and Eastern European countries, Poland, Ukraine and Hungary.

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The project is, 3 years long, started 6 months ago and will last until the end of 2,025.

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It is founded by National Science Center of Poland.

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And those 3 countries, Poland, Ukraine and Hungary were selected due to the fact that they are not Western but Central Eastern European countries and moreover all have relatively similar environmental characteristic which is important for the comparison of anxieties.

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There are also they have also similar historical posts. However, they also differ. First of all, because of the safety issue due to the war in the Ukraine.

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And moreover, they differ also. And in terms of Hofstadter power distance dimension of national culture and the research recent research shows that, The power distance dimension is color correlated with the level of innovation in the society and because of that.

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No, it might influence the coping strategy. Connected to, anxieties.

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And, our project research consists of, several steps. First is, review of existing surveys.

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Which are related to fierce worries concerns not only environmental but also others. And then conducting a representative survey based on this, on the, on the anxieties or anxiety related issues in that identified in this review of the content analyzes.

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Then, biographical, interviews. And then Q the liberation which is quasi and experimental approach which connects the Q methodology and deliberative cooling.

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I will not go into the detail. I'll talk also about that on my presentation on on Monday.

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And, talking a bit, about, our current work. We, we have now completed reviewing surveys from, 3 countries and also international surveys.

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For example, between 2,016 and 2,000 23 in total we analyzed the 131 surveys and it was qualitative analyzes so we collected all I'm society's related.

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Issues we identified to a hundred 50 anxieties related issue and after conducting several discussion session in our research team we were able to synthesize that them to obtain about 120 Yeah, items.

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We divided them, in 6 categories, environment environment, mental health, physical health, politics, socio economical anxieties and politics socio economical anxieties and safety related anxieties.

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And moreover also without going into detail 34 of of them were common to all groups of survey a service while the rest appeared only in surveys in 1, one group of the surveys.

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But, leaving aside cases that do not fit the geographical context of the free selected countries such as for example volcano eruptions or earthquakes which simply, is not, not the case of Poland, Ukraine and Hungary and also topics that affect only one of the countries such for example the

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status of Russian language in Ukraine the rest of the anxieties could be incorporated in questioners in all 3 countries.

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And my last slide. Is about next steps and dilemmas. And our next step are, of course, pilot studies using the cognitive interviews in 3 countries.

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And our questioner, server questioner is constructed, is consist of 2 parts.

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First is the free listing questions which is actually open question where respondents should list all I'mxieties there.

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And shoes off and all coping strategies. Yeah, they use. And the second part is related to this review I presented you.

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So the anxieties identified within a review using the LYCAR scale. And our dilemma's which are of let's say ever ever ever green kind of dilemmas are how do participants define anxiety as it is both everyday language term and theoretical term and how to deal with that.

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Moreover how should we phrase questioning the surveys shall we use the anxiety term or and what about the other related terms like fear war is concern etc.

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And last in surveys we found as I said 2,200 fortunately and 50 anxieties related issues and how to create a short relatively short manageable questioner and integrate anxieties.

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And avoid losing important, data. Thank you very much and I am open for your question in the discussion part.

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Okay, thank you very much. Then we move to the fourth presentation and then the questions will follow after that.

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Can stay up for the discussion.

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So we need to share screen again. So.

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She share the screen. Of course.

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Okay, so one more presentation is by colleagues from Finland. And, Please.

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Okay.

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Yeah. Okay, good morning to everybody. My name is Mika Kerri and I'm from the University of Uvascular inland.

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My colleague Marc.

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Also for a Canadian side of this. Presentation is from University of Pompeo Fapper's Bay.

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May say something that if there's time for Yes. So our

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Presentation is about spatial distribution of risk and We are looking. About small modular reactors.

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The promise of small reactors which are smaller in size than regular or nuclear reactors. The expected benefits.

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Compared to a larger No, so-called megaprojects is that they should be cheaper, safer.

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Quicker to deploy. More combative bill with renewables based energy systems and easier to site than those large nuclear mega projects.

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Yeah, because that citing potential of SMS should be greater than than larger. Priectose thanks to the relatively small size motors lance use requirements and smaller amounts of radio to material and the portability.

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AsMS could be cited in or near Dense populated areas and remotes of great communities.

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And there are plans to site SMS in tensely populated areas in both in Canada and Finland.

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And a remote of grid comedies in Canada. This has potential to increase special distribution of nuclear energy.

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Yeah, what we are presenting is work in progress. I'm Our question is about the topability of this.

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Expanding special distribution of possible nuclear energy experience on We are. Made service and looks about local perceptions of the issue.

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We have a resource from servers in the Helsinki metropolitan area in Finland and some insights and specific silences in Canada.

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We are presenting here. So first wrestles from Finland.

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Some background. A nuclear power plants have just far been sided in relatively small and relative remote municipalities.

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In Finland. There were a nuclear industry has to significantly contribute to local economy and Community well being.

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Recently the main ambition in Finland about a to use them to decarbonise the polity distribution in large municipalities.

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Now there's talks about new SMS to boost electricity production. Go to energy crisis. Situation.

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Well, if SMS are to be used to deco harmonise diplomatic desecrating in large municipalities that would mean that risks would come closer and become more personal for far more people than now.

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Risk benefit ratio for local people would change radically if we Compare a large project with lots of money.

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But to the small city and now small projects. Cheaper project. Sited to the large city.

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Well, so what are implications for local action terms and acceptability?

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We, we asked the residents opinion of possible SMR units in Helsinki metropolitan area, Finnish speaking residents ages 8 it is 18 to 75 we have a We had a serving in November, 2,021 with 2 1,600 responders.

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And a survey in November, 2,022 last year. About the same. Okay. About the same, number of respondents.

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Funding for for November, the twentieth 21 server from the university. If you was to lot and 22 from Lotte University.

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Which parts and participates in this research also.

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Here we can see.

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That as a Mars have quite a bit.

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Packing from a Reference. From 2,021. Survey there was 48% that answer that they would accept.

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SMR in their home municipality. And 2,022. It has a recent horizon 9%.

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And,

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So, Excuse me. Number of those that cannot say has been remained constant.

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And how close to home. With the residents accept SMR.

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You will see it, 2,02139% would accept

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Accept the SMR 9 9 kilometer kilometers from their home or less

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And 5 kilometers or less 26 proteins. And 2,022 after energy crisis

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41% would accept it for 5 kilometers or less. From their home. In dense populated area this makes a big difference.

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If you are

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Finding the site. For your SMR.

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Safety of SMS was asked also. SMS are safe. Save is remained mainly constant.

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In 2,021 for 1%. 22 for a 5% acre that SMRs are safe.

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Same cause to regulatory supervision of ahMR safety 53% of 2021 survey answers indicated that it's hard level in Finland and 57 in 2022.

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2022 we also asked if the conflict situation SMR poses a lesser risk than large NPP.

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Nuclear power plant and 54%. Indicated that that's the case.

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Acceptability of different energy energy products and possibilities indicates that Small nuclear reactor jurors are more

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More acceptable than combust, gas turbines and larger nuclear power bands and combustion engine power plants.

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It's a after solar hydro and wind power. In this list. When we look closer we also see that large nuclear power plants are most most disagreed.

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To be acceptable. There's 51% that Sydney deemed that. They are not acceptable.

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So. Conclusions. Local active acceptance for potent TLSMR. Has increased considerably as especially when cited near Respondent's Home.

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Trust in safety for SMRs and regulatory supervision is slightly improved. Residency SMS less favorable than remote water pools.

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But prefer them over fossil and large nuclear.

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Some possible explanations for growing acceptabilities. Sharp increasing generally positive media visibility. An strategic crisis and concepts over over energy tech security and upper Wi.

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Daughter or crime situation. And a growing concern for climate change. And portrayal of SMS as Noel low-carbon option.

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And if You Mark could say something about early insects from Canner. Yes, do you have time? Any second?

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4 min. Okay. I'll say something about Canada. On the the background for this is that we have this project on promises, techno scientific promises looking at SMRs as an example.

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And there Canada and Finland are case 3 countries and we're planning planning to produce some kind of comparative analysis between the 2 countries.

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But methodologically that's not not easy and there are issues of Well, related to research setting and new research groups etc.

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But just a few issues about Canada. The starting point. First of all, in Canada they have rather far advanced plans.

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Nothing concrete yet, but plans for deploying different kinds of SMRs and they have identified 3 different types of functions for SMRs.

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For the sighting. So I think of these reactors. Distinction that is essential is between the citing the idea to site SMRs at earlier industrial or energy generation locations which is rather unproblematic from social acceptance point of view populations are rather favorable they want something industrial there whereas then the the real challenge is in the

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remote indigenous communities in the north of Canada and that is an interesting case and and actually when Canadians talk about thisMRs and politicians don't talk about SMRs they talk about these challenges and the indigenous Engagement is a major, major topic.

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And then there are differences between different provinces onntario is very nuclear heavy and there again acceptance problems probably will not be not be a major issue except in the northern northern part of Ontario perhaps but then the interesting cases are Saskatchewan which currently doesn't have any power plants, nuclear power plants, they have

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uranium mining but not not nuclear power plants and they have plans plans to deploy, deploy SMRs and There have been some surveys, citizen surveys done in Saskatchewan showing relatively similar picture as in Finland that the expectation that SMRs will actually become a major producer of electricity is increasing over has increased

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over over time so this is not an acceptance but the expectation what what's going to happen most likely and these are similar pictures as those from Finland.

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It's the difference I guess here is that there are more people who neither agree nor disagree so more people who are ambiguous and We could ask for on which basis do people answer these surveys?

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The same goes for Finland because SMRs are at the moment only a promise they they do not exist people don't have the experience of of this.

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These reactors. So, yeah, this is similar to Finland. SMRs are ranked behind solar and highro, natural gas when people are asked for pure preference.

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What kind of facilities would you like? Like to accept. But when you frame the question in these terms, Providing safe, reliable, cost-efficient electricity for the future then SMRs suddenly are Better ranked so that again raises questions about the questions post to the citizens And another related issue is that in in

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Saskatchewan, there are researchers who have done done this surveys and And yeah, I guess we can say that they are rather favorable.

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The researchers themselves are rather favorable. The researchers themselves are rather favorable to the idea of introducing SMRs. The researchers themselves are rather favorable to the idea of introducing SMRs.

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And the results that I showed come from the idea of introducing SMRs and they the results that I showed come from those researchers but they the results that I showed come from those researchers but then there are in NGOs who have commissioned research surveys on SMRs as well and electricity generation options in New

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Brunswick in this case, which currently has one nuclear power station. And there the results are are much more Less favorable so to say this just done Just an example.

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And in the case of New Brunswick These are findings about the explanations to pro SMR or NCSMR ideas.

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So. Women, those living in new Labrador, told us me why. And people who trust environmental NGOs are favorable against the idea of citing SMRs are favorable against the idea of citing SMRs are favorable against the idea of citing SMRs in in the province and then Those who

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are favorable are young, higher income, anglophone populations who are concerned for economy and consumer issues and who trust electricity utilities.

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So these are just few highlights of. From Canada. Thank you. These are the foundation.

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So thank you very much and then I would like to invite the speakers. To the panel if you could sit there then we could have questions for you and we would like to have our present on the screen.

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Before they Oh yeah, yeah, one.

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You Just the

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Plus

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We can stop sharing the screen. I just need to. We can stop sharing those things so we see them.

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Yeah, I know I just need to close this. I don't know and then I had to move the color.

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This is my

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So, And then, yeah.

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You won't even ask the Reynolds candidate.

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Okay, this is not perfect now.

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Okay, so are there any questions? If you can come here because we need microphone for the remote for the remote recording.

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Oh! So, of you, I'm sorry you are not able to see the audience, but hopefully you can hear.

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Okay. Okay, thank you.

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The buck. Okay, I'm Pagasina Kazar from Japan and thank you all for your great and informative presentation in the early morning after the farewell party.

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About you know, do you have any question in your survey about local benefit about SMRs.

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Because you know I'm interested in that because usually you know small local municipalities in Finland are kind of attractive to large nuclear powerland because it brings you know a lot of benefits to them.

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Because it cost a lot, they can get a lot of your property tax, right? If it's a small and cheap SM art municipalities host municipalities can't get any that much of you know maybe property tax or there might be no promise of how to say.

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You effect to a positive influence or longer local industry. So if you have any, you know, question in a survey or some insights, could you tell me a little bit about that.

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Yes.

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These municipalities or cities. We make the serving. They were. Yeah, there was big cities and it was metropolitan area.

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So we don't have answers about little municipalities. And also That's, benefits risk.

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Ratio is very different now because these really are smaller. Projects compared to large nuclear power plants and Nice mentioned there is a big They don't bring that much.

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To the I was sorry. So regarding SMRs benefits more about decarbonization.

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Yes, not about you know local high financial benefits or industrial benefit. Larger metropolitan area. That's correct.

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Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. You can just add.

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The Canadian case of course in this in this case is different in the sense that in for the indigenous communities the promise the hope is precisely that the economic benefits that they would bring.

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And that's why indigenous communities are very divided. Within and between different communities and Only one hand there's strong opposition because of the mistrust of the government and the historical history of indigenous communities and then on the other hand they promised that This is a way for for these communities to develop.

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Here, thank you. Other questions from the audience?

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So.

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Just thank you very much for all the presentation. 2 small questions. First, the first question is to Alex.

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I don't maybe I listed, how did you measure race perception? So you had 2, there is perception that the other one was air quality per air quality.

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Yeah quality perception how did you measure it? What is a scale or maybe scales? Influence of the results.

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And stress that there is a confession. Or maybe one by one if he answered. Yes.

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Okay, and the high quality perception it was only 1 one eaten and I don't remember exactly the how was the question but is how to evaluate their quality in the last month.

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I believe something like that. And there is perception we We were inspired. A of its index of 9 eating different items that that that have information about not only the risk that you pursue for yourself but for your family and friends and a lot of information is in this and we check all the robustness of this.

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Of this in the so I can share you the paper with more detective information. I appreciate the rightism.

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You have one more question. The second question concerns the small motive reactors. Did I correctly understand that in either in Finland and nor in Canada there are no currently functioning moderators or they're operating.

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No, there are no operating reactors basically nowhere in the world. And so, okay, and so the next question goes, how did you explain during your survey what is this nuclear reactor looks like in order the citizens could put the understand what it would be because you could frame it in very different ways.

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So for example you could ask would you like to have a small Chernobyl in your homes and otherwise you could frame in another way.

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It would be quite different. So how did you explain people what is it? Because in which terms you explain, you could explain more in economical terms more in terms of possible rates.

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And so did you mention the possible threats and so on while communicating in the questionnaire?

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I have to say that I don't have

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Precise recollection of how we framed it but we try to be as neutral. As possible and we basically explained that It's a, more, smaller.

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Nuclear reactor and we are used to and us. What would be your

330
01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:33.000
Perception of peace. And We also asked how familiar these were to the

331
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:49.000
To the resident that we are answered in this end. I have no clear brick collection but I ocean that it was around her.

332
01:16:49.000 --> 01:17:01.000
That were somewhat for me familiar with the concept. Before that time. Yes. Thank you.

333
01:17:01.000 --> 01:17:10.000
Just add that there was a short introduction, sort of a couple. Sentences, phrases, explain what We'll the SMRs are in the beginning.

334
01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:29.000
But then what I tried to say show precisely in the beginning. But what I tried to say show precisely in the Canadian case is that there are are these significant differences between framing not necessarily I don't know how they introduced SMRs in the beginning but already the questions.

335
01:17:29.000 --> 01:17:50.000
And it was openly stated in the when the conclusions of of this study done in Saskatchewan was was done that When respondents were in that SMRs have a capacity to bring non-emitting electricity and heat production to remote communities and industrial extraction sites.

336
01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:54.000
And we add it as an electricity. And as electricity demand grows, it was found that the support for SMRs went up.

337
01:17:54.000 --> 01:18:08.000
So that's quite an open recognition that the framing is essential and changes radically the answer that brings.

338
01:18:08.000 --> 01:18:30.000
To my mind, questions about the role of social scientists and sociologists. What is our role in this whole whole picture in building, constructing promises for SMRs and and also try to construct them by showing great support for SMRs and others who try to show the other another way.

339
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:42.000
And We'll see what happens in. Thank you. Okay, thank you and then I would like to also ask some questions maybe citing Wiki stuff because He is waiting also maybe online.

340
01:18:42.000 --> 01:18:51.000
So in your study you showed preliminary results on the topics of different anxieties, like different topics, right?

341
01:18:51.000 --> 01:18:58.000
And then I was missing technological risks every man but correctly you had political socioeconomic.

342
01:18:58.000 --> 01:19:15.000
But then whether you had some technological objects that correspondence identified, also I would like to ask you how you can capitalise the difference between an anxiety and perception in your study?

343
01:19:15.000 --> 01:19:18.000
Thank you very much. Concerning the, technical technical, anxieties.

344
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:35.000
Actually there are not many. We were not identified many in existing surveys. Actually there are not many, we were not identified many in, existing surveys.

345
01:19:35.000 --> 01:20:00.000
We plan to add some some technological related anxieties. And one of the example is the artificial intelligence anxiety which is more and more important and raising issues And now and it is quite interesting issue.

346
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:12.000
Thank you for these questions because the technology is pretty much missed in this. You have Right. Er, about that and concerning the second questions about the risk perception.

347
01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:42.000
Actually we are in the middle of the literature review now and we are not yet conceptualize all the issues so i think that it is our and the work which is in front of us now, we of course, rooted our, research in, in the giddens and the

348
01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:59.000
back the classical terrorism of risk. Or risk societies. However, those element which you ask is in front of us.

349
01:20:59.000 --> 01:21:20.000
And also if I may suggest a bit because I was also doing a survey when we needed to include a lot of items and like related to different risks you could look at the World Economic Forum classification of general areas and risk and then for example for technological I think it's very important to include for cyber security because now our region is

350
01:21:20.000 --> 01:21:37.000
becoming very Also crucial crucial issue so you could also use that for kind of definition of broader areas for your 250 items because in the survey you need to then narrow them down and to balance somehow that they balance around the different areas.

351
01:21:37.000 --> 01:22:05.000
So you could look at these reports. And then I have a question for, You are using the mess of Nietzsche's theory that is closely related to social organization within the cultures related to social organisations within the cultures.

352
01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:32.000
And I wonder whether your conclusions were you related that for example local communities belong to capitalist social Look whether it's really working within your communities because I would maybe discuss with you if the local communities are really cautious because they could be also a f.

353
01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:50.000
I mean, capricious means that you know you are fatalistic and whenever happens it's kind of like the the face right but then the egalitarian dimensions like rather when you see that it's uncontrollable and it could be out of the borders.

354
01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:59.000
Are you planning to kind of through interviews to look closer into the types of social organizations? Thank you.

355
01:22:59.000 --> 01:23:16.000
That's what I, question. The observations we've made, through the through our, interviews actually shows that the local people, the indigenous people.

356
01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:26.000
Of they are not very many of them are not quite sure You know how the There is good layout.

357
01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:37.000
Some other models are following. What to have hard Yeah, so, that's why I think they are more.

358
01:23:37.000 --> 01:23:51.000
Tubby shows. They are not quite quite sure yet. And there is a huge influence from the the egalitorium at those.

359
01:23:51.000 --> 01:24:05.000
Some. To these windows, you know, coming to influence. Get thinking about it.

360
01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:16.000
So. Yeah, the elephant in the room is Miami. It's not exactly the road road project.

361
01:24:16.000 --> 01:24:27.000
So the there are core organizations that are undermining. But, very, question in the region.

362
01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:34.000
So there they have, you know, what's the thing about mine, which is more.

363
01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:51.000
What is it? Yeah, yeah. The Yeah, but this other people are not quite sure.

364
01:24:51.000 --> 01:25:00.000
Good. Even though many of them works. So, They are also in support of not mining.

365
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:08.000
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, so but that could be also in your future methodology. You could look at the types of social organization via the.

366
01:25:08.000 --> 01:25:13.000
You could look at the types of social organization via different questions and then this relates to the types of social organization via different questions and then this relates to the types of nature.

367
01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:14.000
You could look at the types of social organization via different questions and then this relates to the types of nature.

368
01:25:14.000 --> 01:25:24.000
Yeah, this is also nice visual representation of this nature. Human relation. Yeah, thank you. Then I'm using the power of the being chair and I have also questions for the presenters.

369
01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:38.000
Alex, I went I wanted to ask you or maybe to suggest you because I had this objective layer of the data with air pollution and you had risk perception.

370
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:58.000
But you did not show us the statistics of the correlation because you just showed this is the map, this is the map and we can kind of visualize it but can you do just special regression because you can actually put the value of the objective point to every correspondence and then you can like proof with that I mean with just facial regression

371
01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:17.000
whether they are related. The risk perception with objective exposure. I'm sure you have a objective air pollution map and then you have RUSE-PER-SUM, OK, so you have a objective air pollution map and then you have risk perception map.

372
01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:37.000
Yeah. To turn them up but it's only an autopsy yeah but So let's see what happens in a statistical way.

373
01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:54.000
I mean we work with normal regulation but we make some groups with other technicians to see things of a special collaboration, not all these problems.

374
01:26:54.000 --> 01:27:21.000
And and the results are very similar to So we decide to present the information most. Yeah, so maybe I will try to, so yes, so maybe you did that, but what you could do, so yes, so what maybe you did that, but what you could do, because I did that in my study.

375
01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:26.000
Air pollution for each of the respondents on your map. So that's how then you can have objective air pollution exposure as independent variable.

376
01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:40.000
So then also you can, so you don't need to interpolate the perception on the map.

377
01:27:40.000 --> 01:28:10.000
Okay, Take data open air pollution in the official monitoring stations. But we put another kind of smaller stations because that is not true to see this after that but I'm as sure as a socialist not that the future is of this but we check this with a lot of mythological and models to see the the win and other kinds of things to

378
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:43.000
input some value to with the person in this space in the in in the middle level that it's very difficult and not really if you can see the the environmental justice studies work with a sensor track level but it's very difficult to go to the individual level.

379
01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:53.000
But if you don't go to the individual level. It is difficult to say the relation between

380
01:28:53.000 --> 01:29:12.000
Objective asar and yeah yeah so that's what why you could do the spatial regression between objective and individual level data and also other studies show that some environmental risks they are not exactly related to their perceptions.

381
01:29:12.000 --> 01:29:20.000
And so then you can show whether it's strongly correlated or not so strongly correlated. In your case, it was not strongly correlated, right?

382
01:29:20.000 --> 01:29:32.000
So it would be nice to see it. I know not at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's really surprising.

383
01:29:32.000 --> 01:30:02.000
And we are thinking whether but if you go to the risk perception series you can understand or find the explanations yeah so yeah so one of the answers could be in the title of our session which is risk normalization.

384
01:30:11.000 --> 01:30:18.000
Inside, you see a big difference. So, so people tend to, to see their quality just in the city.

385
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:31.000
Very bad in your neighbor. Oh, it's not so bad and then your home is perfect. But, but it is not the reality.

386
01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:33.000
Yes, also can share people where we looked at the spatial differences in environmental differences in environmental perception across rural urban areas.

387
01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:52.000
So we also found some underestimation in cities. And then for your study, can I ask if you had the question on risk perception of us in Mars?

388
01:30:52.000 --> 01:31:10.000
For example, what kind of less people would relate, for example, way, a waste or possible an explosion, technological failures, any questions related to the risk reception?

389
01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:14.000
Yes, yeah.

390
01:31:14.000 --> 01:31:18.000
Gossip mainly

391
01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:30.000
Approach. Concept of, safety. How safe is something? We asked.

392
01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:34.000
About

393
01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:47.000
Waste issue. But and we haven't. Into that. Hmm.

394
01:31:47.000 --> 01:31:56.000
Comparisons with other types of risks. Yeah yeah but like within this Mars like what's the perception of that technology?

395
01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:59.000
Yeah, I don't think there was that So maybe also there are other questions maybe from the panel to other speakers or from online.

396
01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:04.000
Yeah, please.

397
01:32:04.000 --> 01:32:13.000
May I ask? May I ask one? Also to Mika and, and Marcu, it is really important issue.

398
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:35.000
I think the small modular reactors and in Poland it is also more gaining more and more up attention because our government, implemented social combine public campaign about this reactor that has plan also to implement some.

399
01:32:35.000 --> 01:32:46.000
However, there are no yet. And I would like to ask you about that maybe you found also a from other countries.

400
01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:55.000
What is the perception of SMR in other countries. Have you found such?

401
01:32:55.000 --> 01:33:02.000
To be honest, if I remember correctly, we haven't. Check what there is in other countries yet.

402
01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:16.000
We have 5 countries. In our in our project 5 case study countries where we are still in the beginnings with Finland, Canada, these are the ones that we really have started working on.

403
01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:25.000
And then maybe a comment also that even though we do Do make the surveys as part of the project.

404
01:33:25.000 --> 01:33:29.000
It's not really the heart the key question is more about the project. It's not really the heart.

405
01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:34.000
The key question is more about the construction of. Promises around SMRs rather than perceptions.

406
01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:45.000
With no perceptions enter into the debating from his construction but it's not the the heart of that state but Well thanks for reminding us.

407
01:33:45.000 --> 01:34:12.000
Of these. Yes, please. I am quite intrigued by the fact that we don't yet have samples of at some miles anyway in the world because currently South Africa is facing one of the biggest, power crisis ever.

408
01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:24.000
There are organizations that have been moving for the adoption of S and So the, understand the Minor was hard before now with that.

409
01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:41.000
That are, context in cases where these aggression. I did not know. So, if you guys can also extend your, your study to places like So don't begin.

410
01:34:41.000 --> 01:34:55.000
You don't have. Interest in it because the government I was told house or is about to set up?

411
01:34:55.000 --> 01:35:06.000
That the visibility of headline because time follows.

412
01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:16.000
Thanks. That would be very interesting and that reminds me of one of the challenges of course and promises of these SMRs because the whole idea of SMRs is that they would be produced in a factory like manner.

413
01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:44.000
You would construct nuclear reactors almost like you do fridges and sell them in the same way. And but then in order for that to be economically viable you have to have a big market and that's where developing countries and newcomer countries that currently don't have nuclear power come come to a picture with all of the problems

414
01:35:44.000 --> 01:36:07.000
with Safety regulation institutions in the country and Acceptability issues than if you Try to site them in remote communities for instance then that's a an unknown area and challenge.

415
01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:10.000
Other questions?

416
01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:20.000
May I also have questions for, me and, Colleague, Marcusop, sorry.

417
01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:29.000
You presented at the end the possible explanations to that produce of a Mars like media coverage and Accountability.

418
01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:38.000
Have you also included that in the questionnaire or this is some like just argument?

419
01:36:38.000 --> 01:36:50.000
We haven't, put that in a question. We are doing in our project also. Media.

420
01:36:50.000 --> 01:37:06.000
It is the case that in the reciprocity in the main main newspaper in Finland.

421
01:37:06.000 --> 01:37:19.000
Peaked 2,022 and 2,021 before that.

422
01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:29.000
Articles about it. Mentioning, SMS were quite

423
01:37:29.000 --> 01:37:40.000
Few. In the year and in 2,021 it was

424
01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:53.000
Oh, J 20 and 2022 or 40. So it's climbing rapidly. Okay, so this will be in the next conference.

425
01:37:53.000 --> 01:38:14.000
Other questions? Yep. I'll ask a very stupid question and I'll reveal my ignorance about risk perception literature but I was wondering is there if you could explain What you presented in the very first presentation in the beginning, the idea that's vulnerable.

426
01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:22.000
Societies or societies, communities that have under undergone difficulties and threats, external threats was in that way.

427
01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:36.000
Their risk perception is higher than an average. Where's then Alex talked about environmental justice perspective and showed how less favored groups and communities often have a lower perception.

428
01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:51.000
So how do you? How do you explain this? Is there a contradiction or perhaps not? Laugh Yeah.

429
01:38:51.000 --> 01:39:06.000
They see. Communities that have He's, is Turing. Injustices, you know, to be to look inward.

430
01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:16.000
They tend to suspect any influences

431
01:39:16.000 --> 01:39:36.000
And then What we found is, This area. Always want to enforce their agency you know they want to like you know movie don't influence false.

432
01:39:36.000 --> 01:39:45.000
Where it's Python in the Morse liar style. Spent. So that's where that comes from.

433
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:54.000
Because when the road project was, conceived. There was no grassroots, consultation.

434
01:39:54.000 --> 01:40:04.000
Consulted. And, there's saw it as an in position because it was coming from the state.

435
01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:09.000
They were not represented.

436
01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:22.000
I don't know if I yeah That's that's perfectly clear but then I suppose the issue is why or why

437
01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:30.000
If you think of sizing risky industrial installations, if you look at sort of shorter history.

438
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:59.000
Not 300 years back, but with enough. Due the case. The same thing has happened in many places in the Western world if you have placed these nuclear power stations or chemical factories in marginalized communities which have benefited economically from this industry and and now they accept new risks more easily than other communities, precisely because they are familiar

439
01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:04.000
with the industry. And they

440
01:41:04.000 --> 01:41:10.000
What was the term that you used? Risk normalization is one explanation and economic benefits and yet another.

441
01:41:10.000 --> 01:41:20.000
So in that sense there seems to be a look, you see, that is, Yeah, workshop we attended some time ago around that region.

442
01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:32.000
The White Coast and The major problem there is that there hasn't been You know, enough education.

443
01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:42.000
They have not been. Been been informed. In the weather they can be, I'll be convinced.

444
01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:53.000
That this project was gonna be of benefit. To them. All they have been flooded with is that The road was coming to.

445
01:41:53.000 --> 01:42:10.000
To the community form. My name. So if there is enough education public orientation. To splendid them the benefits the standard gained from this project.

446
01:42:10.000 --> 01:42:20.000
They might change. But as it is, you know, this top-down approach by the state is not ready.

447
01:42:20.000 --> 01:42:33.000
What can they still compare it to? That's history is still at the back of your mind.

448
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:47.000
Okay, thank you very much and I hope we have even more numerous sessions on risk and space and at future conferences because I think it's very important area and it's evolving and so let's meet again.

449
01:42:47.000 --> 01:42:54.000
During nextoncurrents. Thanks a lot for the one.