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Just be fresh.

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Hi, good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the finance suburb session. But let's begin with an acknowledgment of country.

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On behalf of everyone gathered, I pay respect to the country, to the spirit of country here in Naum, where we are meeting.

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I acknowledge the past and present cooling nation, water injury, wui wareum as a sovereign people here.

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The cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote. Narm, aboriginal law. Customs and custodianship responsibilities for country and the people that countries continues to sustain generation after generation into the future for all of us.

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I recognize the important contribution that First Nation thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We think all first nation delegates in the room today and outside of the room today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline.

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So, today we have a, our session is called finance as a verb, local practices in global finance.

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And as that sounds, we're going to be listening to some country-level studies that are looking at broader patterns of finance in social life.

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Our first and our last session are is online. Is that right? Maybe a little bit off.

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But anyway, the very first one will be online. And so our first speaker is Professor Alicia Geron, a long-standing member of our CO 2.

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So welcome to the session.

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Thank you very much and our own Pituk is very nice to be here and I'm very glad that my paper was accepted.

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First of all, the I would like to talk more or less what is a what I had been doing and one

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Alasia, can you share? Do you have some PowerPoints?

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Okay, great.

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I can share the PowerPoint, but let me first. Okay, talk about the name of the Oh, oh, I have changed.

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Many times the name of the PowerPoint. Because if you see I think you are seeing it was another name and at least II decided to to see it as a Chinese financial corporation capital and we are going to I am going to talk only by China Railroad Construction Corporation.

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This is a long research that we have been doing. Especially to see why. What are the cause of the economic development that China has had during the last 50 years and as we can see is to take the hypothesis of Minsky and the words that he used to describe how it was capital limbs and it is big government

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and big and big bank. He is a he frequently used to denote the size of the government. The level of public expenditure and the central bank and the barriers new deal reforms during the Great Depression.

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So all the reforms that in China has been taken during the eightys position that large corporations globally And one example is China railway construction with investments in 5 countenance transforming with well the landscape of the region through long range construction projects as well as investment employee sectors and necessary for the accumulation process in China.

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So it is very interesting. The amount, and, how can I tell you, all the incredible how since they introduced that they were accepted in a world trade organization they immediately began to invest in most of these in around the it's a global big investments so for example that china's

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total investment between 20 or 5 and 2022 are mounted to 2.27 trillion according to the China Global Investment Tracker and within the framework of this investment, for example China Railroad construction corporations accounted for 3.6 6% equivalent to 83 60 million dollars in the areas of the well

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in the area of his rented of this corporate represent represent 8,200 million dollars. And 9.8 7 and in construction 74 80 60 million dollars almost 90.13 so and the region that benefit the most has been sub-Saharan Africa which accounted for 43.7% of the total see Chinese railway construction

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corporations investment worldwide. So I'm going to pass you, I'm going to share them.

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Well, here is my, okay, so what is that interesting things? I have, I'm going to be as very quickly because the importance of this, a that the thing that we are we are studying that 10 biggest Chinese corporations and how they are having a lot of investment around in the 5 continents.

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So this one for example is, a, this, corporation as has another affiliate corporations as a Chinese civil engineering construction that that coordinate resources that it is they have a Spanish name because it is in Argentina and Aldesa is another corporations.

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So most of the principal sector, they are in that construction total about 66.6 and the major sector in building activity is transportation.

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And the major conflict of this maintenance activity is in Ecuador and this corporation is a public corporation. So you can see.

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It is very interesting to see how that the investments they have. For example, they have from that total 43.68% is in sub-Saharan Africa.

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Then in the middle, Area Middle East and North Africa is 27 point online. If you have that some view some is more than 40 plus almost 70% of that total of the investment.

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So this is very significant because later on we can see the bell-rolls. Then games, for example, South America, that is, 80, 1198 is Asia and well Europe and North America it isn't so important as it is this part of the world.

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So the shirt that I have, it's only to see how you see the principal countries for example in the Middle East and North Africa Algeria is the most important and also Saudi Arabia.

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Libya, Sudan, And in the sub-Saharan Africa is Nigeria. If you see is that 13.3 billion dollars that they have in best and then you can see and then you you have to explain you have to ask why it is so.

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Oh.

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A lot of investment in these countries. So we have to understand that principal commodities that China is using for their economic development.

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So here is, is Asia. With Asim. And here in this one is, for example, South America.

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As I told you, in the Middle East and in Sub-saharan Africa is a 70.70% of the investment but here it is very important to see how is with America they have a big investment but especially in Ecuador, Chile, Columbia.

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So if you go to a, but especially in Ecuador, Chile, Colombia. So if you go to Equal or Chile Colombia.

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So if you go to Equalor, you are going to see that the Chinese investment is the principle is in business is the principle is in oil.

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The Chinese investment is the principle is in oil and then you are going to see the Chinese investment is the principle is in oil and then you are going to see also the metals and for example in Brazil is transportation and this is principle if you see that these countries are in the zone of that Amazonas.

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Yeah.

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So here Also, a we decided. For example, this is the major produce by region. So it is incredible that in in Africa that sector transport is a is very important and also Libya.

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And Pakistan and this is the principle. In, it is, this is my sector transport rail in Chile, is Spain and Antioch, you can see where they are expanding their investment.

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I want to try to go to that. I want to try to go to that to my last table because one of them, I want to try to go to that to my last table because one of the, if this investment, because one of the, if this investment, because one of the, if this investment, big investment of this Chinese railway.

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because one of the, if this investment, big investment of this Chinese railway, construction corporation is important.

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One of One of the most important. Is what is behind this corporation. And it is unbelievable that in this, in this one you are going to find the institutional investors.

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And when I talk about that institution, institution in investors is Beep companies, they they are in, they are, mobile phones that they have.

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Assets in these corporations for example value partners high and this one maybe they are not for example also from in from Kong Kong from different countries most of this is from China Hong Kong but the important thing is that why it is so important.

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To see how these investments, and this institution in Passer Act. And then, for example, this one is the value partner's high dividend stocks one.

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Yeah, they provide capital application. By investing primarily in a portfolio or relatively higher yield depth and equity securities in national region.

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So we have also this take Each we are starting also the the companies that are behind the and for example here we have another you see in the institutions as shown high securities.

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And this is from Denmark. This is well, it is situated in barring asset management.

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Harvest Fun Management and Anions Global Investor. So that the principal things is that

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5Â min.

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10Â min? Yes. So what is the idea of, of, of taking all these, this, this, this, this was the first example or as I told you is a big research of I don't know how many.

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Maybe one or 2 years it will take me to see that 10 biggest Chinese corporations. To see who are the, which is that type of investment that they are doing.

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And the

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And why they are also giving a lot of money to these countries. But that the thing that I want to transmit is that in most of these countries are NICO.

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Aluminum goal and rare materials that are very important for the transformations of to for a digital economy and also for for the climate change.

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For me that will be so very fast a very fast, picture of what is that I am doing and of course I changed many times the title because the thing that I want to to see what these corporations are is finance capital, the meaning of finance capital as heat for being used to do it in finance capital.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you. Thank you. You're well within time. Thank you.

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Just a moment.

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Wonderful.

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And thank you for, Alicia. Thank you for introducing us to your new research project. So our next presentation is by Dr.

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Chan. Credit reading is a tool of communication and negotiation. SMEs lending in Taiwanese banks.

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For your choice.

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Hello everyone, it is my honor to share my ongoing research with you and it will be great to hear your comment about that.

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So my research is about the small and the median size enterprise bank loaning. In Taiwan and about the law of quoted ratings in the procedures.

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So, S and E we call small in the medium sized enterprise. According to the definition by the government, is a pet in capital of less than 3.4 million US dollar or in employee fuel and 200 people.

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So the amount of SA loans from Taiwanese bank were 2,600 billions US dollar in 2,020.

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So it among account for 27% of the How long of the Taiwanese bank? Oh, it's they are the primary type of collaborative customer for Taiwanese bank

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So what are the procedure of SNE loans in Taiwanese bank? First, the owner will submit a layer long application to the bank.

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And the lender you a sale you need. Theigration no miniatures. They will do a pretty investigation of the company, they will collect their data and they will a lot of locality regime models.

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And at the same time, they will negotiate with the deal with the owner. So about like, continue including currents, guarantors.

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Collector long amount interest rate or duration. After laying after land. The I am will submit the query post and the draft of the deal to the risk control you need.

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So that the Theo examiner will rebuild the Gos. If they think it is fine, they will submit to the Longer Proof Committee.

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If I feel the Doesn't good. They only judge the right array. But often they will as the end to be renegotiated with owners to alter the competition for example increase the collateral or race the interest rate or decrease the amount of loan.

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So what is the query ranking? It is useless status. Model to estimate the qureti wovenness of our borrowers.

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So to predict the possibility of borrowers to default. The powers could be individuals. Or SMEs.

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Well, public list companies. So Chris G. Could be provided by the Kunipur role. Also can be calculated by the bank itself.

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So most of the famous small in the media size quality score is provided provided by a vehicle. So if I call small business scoring service.

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Although the company does not reveal the parameters of the model but according to other research or the news media Now what included this 4 type of informations, an owner's personal credit score, the age of business, the history of untie payment of the business and the company's financial statements.

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So why do the bank use query ranges for layer as a lens? According to a program and a friend, they provide 2 main reasons.

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Why is cost saving? So if a long a proof can be decided by the credit scores only. I mean, and don't need to do like the data collisions.

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They can do, they don't need to check in a manager there'll be quite laterals.

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They only have to do is input of financial betas of the layer from the company's value statements.

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Another reason is maybe a layer will combine the quality score with others leading technologies. Now, Product the friends think there will be a kind of maybe they can improve layer quality analysis.

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However, they also mentioned this one challenges is the financial statement. May be not transparency and not a currency enough.

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So

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The quadratic Booleans in Tower also tend to provide these salaries in a sales, the service to the bank.

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However, it doesn't work. So, oh bank have never used the Quadin, raking.

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From as an Euquiderekids from the quadrup because They think it is not accurate.

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Hmm. However, All I want to bring a useless old model to evaluate the layer as any kind qu quadi openness.

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They use almost the same perimeters with Raphael's one. But Lasen, oldest interviews for on the bank told me they are internal models don't work.

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Yeah, they cannot.

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Repeal the real quadiophony of the companies. So one of the interviews. Told me a story that a long time ago And international bank in Taiwan they try to make the SME long decisions by the political only but they fail and they face serious default.

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So after that, no bank tried to do the same thing again. So if the They have the same.

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Order, all the interviews have the same idea. They told me the power is not the Parrot Winter setting of the model.

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The power is the data. The financial statements of the small and median sites in Taiwan are not accurate because they try to embed tags and the label of February.

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For every cadre if I need your stamens. Always now that sometimes always So, so when they, the think make the loan with, SNE, they still, they, what do they do is do the query risk mitigations.

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They will require risk mitigations. They will require guarantors, they will require guarantors, co guarantors, code guarantors and a high percentage high values high value collateral, a people like real estate or land.

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If the company cannot provide proper collateral, they will require a company to apply more than median enterprise equity guarantees from.

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Is it provided by the government? But they have to pay anybody to 1% free for the loan. So.

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So my question is, is very just like that. If all the Taiwanese bank No, the internal query renting models don't work.

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So highlight continue and always use land. And they call the real function of this model because it means they cannot Asthmed or majors in a real quadiophonies of this company so why the model use while they use the model.

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Okay, so I interviews like 30 people's about this industry or it's business So my fighting is right led.

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First, the motto can help learn to gain in legitimacy. But say our framework is an international regulatory, a code that include the regulation, supervision, and the risk management of the bank centers.

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So banks are allowed to use the eternal ranking best approach to estimate the capital requirement of credit risk. So it's mean if they use internal query rating models, it can help the bank to minimise the layer required capital mean they can help lend you reduced layer cost So they have a strong economic motivation to do that.

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And another reading is so we can see this kind of is 2 general ISO more vision. Better when it's bank, they introduce the internal quadratic models.

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To major the quadiophony of all scales of enterprise. For long the small and the media size enterprise.

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To large companies. They lay a double the query model to a major, laboratory of all sides of a company.

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So it works in a large companies. Equality scores and the layer and the query often is aligned.

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However, in the SNE section, the credit score and the layer codeworthon is in consistent.

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So they have to decoupling. In the SNE room.

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Another reason to help lend your gaining legitimacy is because No, vigorous looks more abduct.

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Average activities. Because, if they can, if they can, the long decision by qualitative data by the decision of the regulation or managers or by theO examiners they feel sometimes a client maybe will complain so they do not really object or maybe other or maybe now I work complain, say, oh, why the deal

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is I mean, later reject my deal draft directly. So let's say it's more seen more object if we have some figures or some numbers layer.

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So. The quitting right here also is a framework for Nick Kosher's. Negotiation and communication between the RN and the DO Examiner.

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As I mentioned before, the RNs is a belong to the sales unit. Now, the examiner belonged to a risk control unit.

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So the sale you need to try to increase the No, and the TEO of Lemina will try to really sick, restrict risk.

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So sometimes they always have conflict of interest. So, both of these sections people told me that the model is more like a broadselling book.

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Eat of my they provide the framework to like these 2 units to communicate and coordinate.

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Okay. So follow more. The quitting rain here also is framework for communication and agricultural negotiation between the owners and the relational managers.

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Some are in told me that even they cannot reveal the credit score of the companies to lay a client, but they can imply.

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Like, all thing, your query review is doesn't look good. So maybe we have to rest interest or others other things.

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So maybe they can they can have a lend you As the company to provide layer internal financial statements, the real financial dataas.

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And maybe they can use this information to submit to the header office to the examine unit.

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Okay, so So I think these are finding also can respond to the the researcher about like impedance in the operator lenses.

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So the Uzi and the like Burger and Utah, they have some kind of research about the social tide.

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Okay, a bank to reduce the information asymmetry between the SNE enterprise and the bank.

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So I can help lend to make the TL successful. And also, it's also about like Miratri and the stern's they are researcher about now I am the social network within a bank about a wicked I can help the I-end to get information and approve support inside a bank.

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So I think The query ranges. As a tour or as a bucket device. OK, also can help negotiation and the facilitator of communication between these.

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In bed parties. So my conclusion is that little legitimacy of SNY long decision of Taiwanese bank is increasing by not only by the introduction of the international regulations, but also by the adoption of Bukodi ready models in quality investigation even if all bank staff know these schools are inaccurate.

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And a CRISCO provided a framework for negotiation and communication between atters. Where we end up with other bank.

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So there will be strength. The relationship may be for strengther by the models. Okay, so it's my presentation.

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Thank you everyone.

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Thank you, Yushun. And just as a reminder, we will be collecting questions and comments at the end.

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And so please writing goes down and I assure you that all of you will have an opportunity to share your thoughts and questions.

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Oops.

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So our next speaker is Rajashi Ray, who is present with us today.

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Hello?

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I'm sorry, no, he's not. He's, he's online.

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You need not.

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Sorry, I forgot about that. It's got about the switch.

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That's okay. That's it.

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So I hope everybody can see my slides. Because I can't see you people. So just to start off, I would like to thank, Griffith for organizing this session.

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And also been an amazing convener to our CO 2. To begin with, I'd like to see that I'm a graduate student in sociology and I ate, that's located in India.

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And my work in my thesis, which I'm going to submit it in India.

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And my work in my thesis, which I'm going to submit soon is about people to people networks on ground that actually enable platforms in many ways and which is currently missing from the per view of the extra literature.

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So to extend my work, post my, post my graduate, growth graduate degree. I want to look at the type of financial activity.

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I want to look at the type of financial actors that I want to look at the type of financial actors that I encounter during my field and this is a work in progress in your comments that I encountered during my field and this is a work in progress so your comments would be really helpful.

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To go ahead, I'd like to state that the topic of today is like financial actors and context and a photographic study on financial intermediation and its rule in the platform depend on entrepreneurship specifically in India.

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Just to take you, so when, so for in India, I'll be looking specifically at the right healing platforms in India that's Uber and the Uber version of India which is very popular here in So what we found in 2,015 and 16 that Ola itself was providing it was partnering with state bank

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of India, which is the largest public sector bank in India to offer car loans so that people could actually buy this asset.

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And actually start working with platform like Ola. Similar was the case with Uber as well. But what's within 2 years, the news that started coming in the media was that SVI, that is the C Bank of India, was seizing these cars because people were feeling to be the equated monthly installments.

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Of the loans. Thus the cars were overseas. So when I spoke to my respondents in the field, We meet it very evident that the onboarding on these platforms is very easy.

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But in the context of South Asian developing world, getting a personal car is very difficult. Which the platform literature has.

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Ignored it by stating that These assets are nothing but ideal assets which are lying and you could take it to the platform and actually use it for rent-seeking.

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And the other thing that became very important is that it's not a single loan that we are talking about.

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But these respondents mine which I categorize the platform depend on the entrepreneurs are indented to multiple institutions whether that be formal or informal agents like a moneylender.

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And this life cycle of a loan is very important, for them. So just going briefly to the literature, I already spoke about the notion of ideal assets in the share known as in the sharing economy.

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What another important part is to understand the platforms as being a very key intermediary which is trying to control this double sided market.

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Of supply and demand and for the work that they're doing in this kind of a intermediation. They're seeking rent.

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And as Sadowski puts it, it's almost as if it's a venture capitalism that's okay.

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The other concept that we use from Martin Kenya and, Koloto's work is, is the notion of platform dependent on platform dependent entrepreneur is the individual that actually uses the platform as an intermediate to get gigs or services.

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There are multiple, contestation over what they should be framed as. There are multiple, contestation over what they should be framed as and we can get into that maybe.

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So moving from there, I'll go to the sociology of debt and the sociology of finance literature, which sees state as a moral obligation not only for the individual, but it is an obligation is passed on inter-generationally and also to Sam and and also this obligation is passed on inter-generationally and also this obligation is towards the society at

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large rather than to one individual. And here, the society at large rather than to one individual. And here and here within the debt and the loan seeking comes the role of the textual she means.

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As part Roland puts it, that that there are these structured holes in this network. So for example people, a data might not know who the creditor in the market is.

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But there are these bridges or the breaching role that social agents actually function as. These are the intermediates.

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They have a precarious position. But they use this, gap in the network. To come in and they get incentivized for that.

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Another interesting part, interesting, Knowledge that you sell work brings in from financial markets.

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He said there is not one intermediary sometimes there are multiple intermediaries and she calls it the chains of intermediaries.

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And the role these intermediaries play is to transform assets. As Dr. Chen's presentation shows showed us that there are these multiple forms of securities and mortgages that are there.

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It is this intermediaries in my field that actually make them more then they use they pass information about the credit scoring that somebody what kind of loan somebody's eligible for.

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And they're also creating form, they are also in the making of new homes of markets and meanings of price.

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For example, somebody wants to keep a certain amount of gold as a mortgage. What would that transform into monetary value?

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Just going ahead, we have to understand that rather than seeing it from the individual agents perspective, there are also these fewer groups as Bekishu's work talks about the launch networks of, China.

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Or rather Christians work in India. Shows that peer group pressures might become very important in the loan seeking behavior.

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Of individuals. The other important aspect of this entire intermediary, the PD, Pd and the networks is a type of relational work that these people are putting in.

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And it is sort of an effort to actually create sustainment. Or finish off certain forms of relationships and this work is being also seen in this kind of financial interaction.

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In Indian sociology it's already established that there are informal lending for money lenders. If you borrow money, you are in debt and it might lead to certain kind of a bondage that means that you might be bonded for a certain number of years to work for somebody.

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And credit worthiness is actually influenced by the caste's position, the ascetic status of caste.

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Kingship, neighborhood and the village ties one might be part of. Just to go ahead, I'd like to raise the question, the provocation for this paper, when, why and how with the life cycle of a debt are certain financial actors invoked by platform dependent entrepreneurs.

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So my field has been Kolkata, which is which is in the eastern part of India and it's a metropolis.

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The, my respondents were 46 in numbers. I had 35 platform dependent entrepreneurs.

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Others were bank officials, money lenders and full financial users. The time of this framework was from October, 2020 to January 2022.

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I actually did a topography which meant semi structure interviews and participant observation specifically I was shadowing a lot of things.

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Meeting. We can go into the ethical and the reflexive part of my methodology if you have any questions for the question answer session?

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So just to come to the main field work and such. So what is the purpose of this loan? The purpose of this loan is to gain this asset.

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It's it's a Marathon. SCKW Wagonar RX site.

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That's the name of the model. And here we have a PD. His name is Sami.

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He's 41 years old and he's 41 years old and he is going to join a platform like Uber.

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So he doesn't know how to get this card. F, he starts off by renting a car from somebody.

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In few days he realizes that is not making his ends meet and he needs to invest in a gun.

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So he goes and meets these people who are already functioning as platform partners or platform dependent entrepreneurs. And this kind of introduction to platform dependent entrepreneur network is through neighborhood ties more specifically or people might even approach them directly near a but when they are waiting for other passengers.

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This BD network actually pushes Sami to go to a financial intermediary known as Mr. Mr. Nark is formerly, so is formerly associated with 3 public sector banks as of currently and he answered living by the by making a cut.

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From the data as well as the creditor that is the bank. And is 39 years old.

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So what do we see here is that this is a particular loan from a bank or a non-binding financial corporation.

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The pub is to buy the car to participate as a PBO. And what people put in as a modi, which is house, code, land.

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Very interesting educational documents that is formal college degree documents that is formal college degree documents might also act as a security.

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The intuitively actually goes ahead sometimes and he acts and he holds onto the educational documents. He also signs as a guarantor.

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Because he this person has to be external to the family. The guarantor has to external to the intermediate sometimes fun to.

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Uses that kind of rule and he translates this kind of land or code into financial asset that is if he provides this amount of land as a board gauge what kind of loan that he should get.

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And he or she himself calls the the calls themselves as agents. So let's see the type of calculation here.

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So a car. Car loan for Carlo was around 600,000 IR, IMRs, into Peace.

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The current rates are around or 80 NR is equal to one US dollar and the rate of interest is 8.7% per annum.

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So the equated monthly installment that Sami needs to pay every month is Close 1,003 68.

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The total payment that he has to make for the loan and the interest. Is 7 4,200 Now the story doesn't end here and it's not such a simple picture.

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Now what happens, Sami is in a in a few months, Amir is feeling to pay the â‚¹12,000 or 12,000 IR.

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5Â min.

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Emi and now he has to take Sure, sure. And this loan he takes from the local money vendor.

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So where does he get contact with a local moneylender? It is done by the local networks or the local neighborhood networks.

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Which introduced this person to the local manager who's functioning at a neighborhood level. And the here the calendar is not asking for that high mode age of security because he has a political cloud of security because he has a political cloud and leverage and he knows but the use of this.

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Power he can get his money back. Also, he also, the manual also knows that Sami has a card and he can at any point of time if he defaults he can take the current.

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So now what happens from the moneylender he takes in a in total 5 years that was the length of the loan of the car.

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1 6,000 400,000 Now the rate of interest for the Marilender is 7% per month.

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And the total payment to the millimeter that he has to make is 20. The 2 94 of the it's 200. 9,000. 400,000.

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So now what we see is the money that he has to pay for the loan that he has taken for 600.

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1,000 iron is 1,036,008 20 island. So this is how in There's Pd's become in So to conclude I'd like to see that it is this platform infrastructure that is that pushes the PDs to seek multiple types of loan.

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The intermediary comes in and actually acts, transforms assets into MoD pages and they actually use their own social capital to with the formal institutions.

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Or with the local manager to make the transaction possible and they put in relation to work. Sometimes members of the local network neighborhood networks also act as guarantors.

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And they're also interrelational work. And what we find is that in a life cycle of debt, you need specialized doctors to to occur at various point to come in at various point to make this possible.

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And each life cycle of a tape doesn't finish it is interspersed with other life cycle objects.

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Thus I'll call it a cost hearing death cycles that this people are part of. And plaque just being associated with the platforms actually also gives the PV is a certain form of credit worthiness which they might not have if they were in some other businesses.

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So I like to thank you people and this is my references. And I'll, before I finish, I'd like to thank my respondents who privilege me with their time.

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Other than whom I wouldn't be able to do this work.

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Thank you very much.

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Okay, now my next speaker is Animud Raghavan. We're gonna be staying in India but switching from small loans to equity markets.

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The moral investor, equity markets, speculation, and retail investing boom in India. Just want to show us.

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Hello everyone. Very happy to be presenting my research in front of all of you. The title of my research as you can see is the moral investor, equity markets, speculation and the retail investing boom in India.

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So what is the background to what I'm talking about.

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How does this move? Okay. Since the liberalization of the Indian economy in 1,991, India's stock markets have seen a low level of retail investor participation.

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This is despite the steady growth in retail investor participation. This is despite the steady growth in size of both the Bombay Stock Exchange, this is despite the steady growth in size of both the Bombay Stock Exchange and the National Stock Exchange, of both the Bombay Stock Exchange and the National Stock Exchange.

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These are the 2 most important stock exchanges in India. These are the 2 most important stock exchanges in India.

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So henceforth we'll call them the BSC and the NSC. The BSC grew steadily from 5,000 points to more than 25,000 points between 1,991 and 2,001 despite this dramatic growth and a decade long bull run non-professional small scale investors

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called retail investors remain marginal to the trading volume of both. And what do I mean by non-professionals? I mean that they do not earn their income from trading in the stock market.

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That's what I mean. They may be professionals in their own right. They may be doctors and engineers, but they do not earn from the stock market.

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From elsewhere in the stock market. So those investors were marginal to the trading volume. While it has been argued that retail investor participation rises with growth in per capita income this is by no means a direct relationship and we can see that in the case of China where we see that in the Shanghai Stock Exchange between 2

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1,005 and 2,015 they regularly reported 85% of their trading volume coming from retail investors but this was far higher than the US for the same level of per capita GDP.

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So this is not a one-to-one relationship. So between 2,000, 2,010, less than 5% of the trading volume in the BSC could be attributed to these retail investors.

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One research survey in India actually found that only 10.8% of households invested in stocks and mutual funds compared to 68% in China. Right?

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So there was a vast gap in 2,011 but 2,016 onwards there seems to be a change and both BSC and NSC saw a rapid rise in retail investor participation such that by the end of 2,01640% of the cash turnover of the NSC came from retail investor

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trading. And most of this rice actually comes during the period of the COVID lockdown that is, 2,020 and 21 when economists actually expected that there would be a risk a savings bias in the household except instead of saving all the household members are seemingly putting their money in the retail market.

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So it seems to be a contradiction. The CDSL, which is India's largest scaring house, actually notes that the number of Dmat accounts triples in the period of just one year of 2020 to 20 months.

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It's a massive rise. So I've given the number in close that's 2.2 crows to 6 crows that be approximately 20 million right to 60 million so and similarly we also find that the ratio of household savings between fixed assets and financial savings has between fixed assets and financial savings has reversed.

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So India was famously a country known for fixed asset savings, so we put all money in a house that is property and gold but increasingly now we find that the money is moving towards financial savings and within financial savings we find that it is mutual funds and stocks which are actually much more important than even debt instruments like say a savings bank account or an

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FD. Or a fixed deposit in a bank, right? So mutual funds and stocks are becoming increasingly important to the Indian story.

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We can see that here that even between 2,019 and 2,021 we can actually see that there has been an increase in the amount that the retail investor owns in the market.

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And on the right hand side you can actually see that the National Stock Exchange actually shows that the largest category of client participation today comes from the retail investor.

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So much so that even as the foreign institutional investor, the mutual funds, pension schemes, etc.

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We draw from India. The retail investor pumps in money and stabilizes the market. So, 2019 to 2,021 you can see that there is a decline in the FI participation, but the retail investor participation ticks in and stabilizes the market.

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So retail investors are increasingly and very, very important to the Indian story and it has been a sudden development.

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So what is the reason? So one of the reasons is the structural ground that's been laid for the retail investors and one of that and most important part of that is that the markets in India are entirely scopic in nature and what do I mean by scoping that the market is on your screen right so everything is on line and this has been

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a change that has happened since 2,017 both institutional and retail investors are investing online and this has been facilitated because of a number of sweeping changes in India's laws by India's capital markets regulator because of which a lot of trading happens online.

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That's the first, right? The second is that there has been the rise of what we call the discount stockbroker, right?

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This is a trend even in the US, but this can be seen even in India as well. So you have companies like Ziotar and Grow.

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Now what are these discounts stock brokers they charge no brokerage fee there's 0 brokerage fee so it's very cheap for you to put your money into the stock market but they also offer no advice right so they do not tell you how to invest and where to invest which used to be the function of the traditional

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stockbroker in India. So none of that happens. In order to fill that gap, the gap for advice, you have the rise of an online financial advice district.

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The financial influenza. So in India we call them influencers. It's a mouthful, it's a silly term.

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But for influences. So the influencer industry consists of financial and investment gurus providing advice to middle-class salary professionals on YouTube and Instagram, they could be as young as 21 years old and could be 40 years old.

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I mean it's a motley bunch some of them are stamped some of them are very experienced so it's a whole industry and at last count I mean I had counted at least 50 accounts with upwards of 50,000 followers and the largest ones have followers in the millions right so it's a huge industry.

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And most of these influencers also run courses. These are paid courses that actually teach you how to invest right they tell you how to invest how to become an investor what attitudes to have and almost every retail investor I spoke to credited on online content as the reason for becoming an investor in the stock market and learning

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about. Let's talk market. Now who are these retail investors? Now it's a little difficult to say in India because the studies are very nascent.

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As you can see it is a nascent development. It's only in 2,020 that it really bursts into the scene but NSC and BSC data show that the largest volume of retail investment comes from the large cities.

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That is Mumbai, Delhi, Mbabad, Pune, Bangalore, Bangalore, Bangalore, some of you would recognize these are the important financial centers of the country.

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In terms of their class composition centers of the country, in terms of their class composition, we find that they generally belong to their class composition we find that they generally belong to the professional managerial class that is their professionals and we find that they generally belong to the professional managerial class that is their professionals and they generally earn about the professional

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managerial class that is their professionals and they generally earn above 3.5 lacks per annum which is above the professional managerial class that is their professionals and they generally earn above 3.5 LACs per annum, they generally earn above 3.5 lacks per annum which is above the median wage in the country.

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A large majority of investors lie between the ages of 21 LACs per annum which is above the median wage in the country.

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A large majority of investors lie between the ages of 21 and 35. Is that there is a generational difference in terms of how this retail investment boom takes place in the country.

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Now what is the question? The question is why does this investment boom take place or what are the kinds of sociological tools we have to explain this boom.

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The classic economic or finance explanation is a functional one and what do we mean by functional explanation? We mean that that the market explains all which is that you have higher returns hence you have rational people moving towards the higher returns right so that's the general explanation the markets were booming people had more time, people had more information, people had

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easier sources to learn about the market easier. Sources of investment, hence they put their money there.

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It's so easy. Except all of these explanations are undergirded by a model of rationality and economic rationality which has very few bios today, much less in sociology.

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It is a model of rationality that we cannot really espouse. And sociologists of finance on the other hand have actually pointed out that narratives of community, nation and self are actually really important in understanding why retail investment becomes important in any given context and similarly some research and behavioural finance also shows that functional narratives can provide a necessary

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but never a sufficient explanation. That is, it is never the entire picture of why retail investment or any kind of financial decision making happens.

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And these moral or any kind of social narrative becomes crucial to understanding investment in any context. So in that context I seek to investigate the social and moral narratives about retail investment in India and I ask why is it important for non-professional middle class individuals to invest in the stock market?

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The method. So I interviewed 50 retail investors over the course of one year. There was discourse analysis that was conducted on 6 popular social media finance influence channels and participant observation of the investment courses.

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Now what were some of the findings? Right. So I will summarize the findings rather pitily so that I don't go off.

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Of time. The first is the idea of responsibility, right, which seems to be very crucial. The idea is that the retail investors desire to become more proactive and responsible and they contrast this with the generation of their parents.

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So the parents are deemed or the generation of their parents is deemed to be lazy. It is deemed to be irresponsible, it is also deemed to be useless.

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Why? Because they seem to let money idol, they seem to let money go to waste. Except they pay that is the retail investors that is that the young generation take charge of money, they are proactive about money and they invest actively as opposed to simply laying letting money lie about right so all the decisions that they seem to make.

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Are comes back to this idea of productivity and responsibility. So even when sources of investment are very attractive.

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For example, I'll take an example of a bank FD, a fixed deposit which is a debt instrument right you get a be a fixed rate of return on your investment.

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It is not attractive to the retail investor even if the returns are amazing and better than inflation rates because it signals a certain kind of passivity.

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Being proactive and responsible is crucial right so money is being understood as a verb here that you need to do something with money rather than simply let it be.

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That's 1. Second, the investor as a citizen, son and friend, and this is interesting because unlike a lot of study on financial subjects in sociology.

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I'm thinking of the famous work by Andy Martin and Daniel Friedman more recently. This retail investor is not driven merely by self-interest.

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This is not an investor that is saying I need to profit right everyone around me should know about this attitude of investment so it almost feels evangelical.

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In fact the terminology used by the retail investors is of conversion. So all retail investors will speak of the number of people they have converted to seeing their point of view, to becoming retail investors in many ways.

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Right? So retail investing in some senses is seen to be better for you as a father, as a son, as a member of the community.

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So your responsibility requires for you to convert and spread the word about retail investing. It's not about you.

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It's about becoming better as a group. So that's the second. The third, the criticism that they face.

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Now clearly I mentioned that retail investing is about a generational divide. So clearly the generation of the parents, 45 years and above, are extremely critical of engagement with the stock market.

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So the general attitude is that this is gasping. Right? And this was the attitude in the 19 eightys and the 19 nineties that the stock market is a site of extreme speculation of almost loot right so The difference, so the retail investors are very invested in actually trying to counter this charge, and the way in which they actually do

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it is very interesting. They do not do it by stating that retail investment as such or stock markets as such are great and they are not gambling which is one way of doing it but instead they seem to be arguing that it is the person who invests that is very important.

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Stock markets could be gambling for all we know, but it is the person who invests who's crucial.

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So if the person is moral and if the person is above board then in that case retail investment is amazing.

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I'll quickly go to the conclusion. So the retail investment boom in India is closely linked to the rise of discount brokers, financial influencers and investment gurus on social media.

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Discourse around retail investment emphasises an ethnic of responsibility which the investor will adopt and it is this drive to become more responsible and proactive that takes them to the market.

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Becoming responsible makes investors a better parent, a better child. The investor looks out not just for themselves but with evangelical zeal attempts to convert his family, kin and friends to a life of investment.

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Recession scams and bear runs are all known threats but even in the face of this the investor evokes responsibility as the to remain in the market.

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The investor realizes that the investment is speculative not entirely different from gambling but it is his ethic and his responsibility that keeps him prudent while taking risks right so coming back to the idea of responsibility.

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With that, I think I will end the presentation. Thank you so much, everyone.

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I'm so happy to see, Miami Tabata in the audience because I'm sure you've got some ideas.

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From Japanese retail investors. I think we're going to have some really good discussion afterwards. We've got one more speaker.

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So a Piram is going to be speaking. He's co-presenting with Jillit Sarasam, but up here I'm you're presenting by yourself today, right?

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Yes, yes doctor.

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And he's presenting from the Indian Institute of Technology. Understanding cryptocurrencies from the perspective of social institutions.

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Thank you very much for coming.

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Thank you, Dr. Aaron. Hi everyone. I'm Abiram, a sociology PhD student at IIT Canport.

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I'm here to present a working paper with Dr. Gillette Sarasan. I don't understand cryptocurrencies from the perspective of personal finance.

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The title and content were revised to reflect the updated analysis different from the abstract submitted to ISA in November, 2022.

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So, I'll begin my presentation with a literature review. Personal finance is a specific subfield of finance which focuses on managing money and debt at an individual household and family levels.

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In personal finance, the dominant approach stems from economics, commerce and business studies. Which view financial actions inside formal financial institutions which are quantifiable, economically rational, and numerically traceable.

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On the other hand, sociology examines the same actions while exploring the influence of the state, the social identity and networks on monetary flows and decision making.

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A key theme in non sociological and some sociological studies is financialization. Non sociological studies define financialization as the increasing dominance of financial activities in the economy and are often portrayed as a sign of progress and sophistication.

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They believe financial markets and complex financial instruments are necessary for economic development. In contrast, sociological studies focusing on personal finance refer to financialization as an outcome of markets and the new liberal state.

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They critique financialization for placing the burden of financial decision making and risk management on individuals everyday lives.

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However, my research alliance with economic sociology anthropology and selected studies in development economics which emphasize the social nature of money and debt and prompt us to question the concept of financialization.

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So this studies encompassing the sociology of money credit that markets embeddedness and structures of accumulation.

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Dells into financial actions that may appear economically irrational and numerically untraceable but are socially viable in reality.

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It exams diversification arrangements for budgeting, saving, investing and managing money and debt and essays at the individual household and family levels.

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This studies critic the previous approaches in personal finance that viewed money solely as a medium of exchange and overlook the significance of social monies.

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Rooted in distinct social relationships. This studies illuminate how individuals, households and families all locate and track money by considering social relationships and cultural context.

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One phenomenon perspective within these studies is relational ear marking which explodes how individuals assign specific meanings and purposes to money within their social relationships.

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It emphasizes that economic factors do not solely drive individuals a location of money. But are deeply intertwined with money symbolic value in negotiating, maintaining and expressing social ties and obligations.

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In addition to relational ear marking, there is a concept of racial accounting which involves keeping track of social debts and obligations or to others such as favors or gifts.

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However, these studies have primarily focused on state-regulated feared currencies. Overlooking the current proliferation of alternating currency in the economy.

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This study is neglecting the examination of alternative currencies such as cryptocurrencies limit our understanding of personal finance whereas numerous media reports highlight individuals engaging in financial actions using cryptocurrencies.

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So the sociological studies on cryptocurrencies Hi that they are not purely automated or mechanized currencies governed solely by code, but are social forms of money.

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To understand the social life of cryptocurrencies, these studies examine the social organization of cryptocurrencies through online interactions.

335
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Yeah.

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They analyze the ideologies, narratives, imaginaries, and the semiotics propagated within a distinct online subculture of crypto enthusiasm who connect through the internet.

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Primarily conducted in Europe and North America, these studies observe that this online subculture comprises mainly white college educated men, employing information technology and consulting services.

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They often interact using pseudonyms and place value on anonymity. These studies argue that the market value and trust associated with cryptocurrencies term from the influence of this online subculture thereby impacting the crypto adoption.

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However, a limitation of this literature is its focus solely on the interaction between online groups and exchange platforms to understand the social organization adoption trust and market value of cryptocurrency.

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It overlooks the broader social context where cryptocurrencies fit within financial assets and the underlying social relations encompassing personal finance for individuals, households and families.

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So this research aims to provide a nuanced understanding of how cryptocurrencies are integrated into the larger possible finance framework by examining the social relationships and the interactions within families, households and neighborhoods.

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It takes to explore how individuals navigate the social dimensions of cryptocurrencies including the social ties, norms and practices that facilitate the year marking exchange and accumulation of cryptocurrencies within personal finance context.

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This study is part of an ongoing long-term ethnographic project that began in December, 2,021 in Kochi city in Kerala state of India.

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The data for the study has been collected through semi-structured interviews with 25 cryptocurrency users.

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Additionally, discussions have been held with their household members, king and neighbors to gain insights into the broader social context of cryptocurrency usage.

346
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To deepen the understanding of this topic, participant observation has been conducted within 3 cryptocurrency collectives.

347
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Additionally, the researcher attended 2 cryptocurrency gatherings and actively participated in a cryptocurrency workshop, one of the collectors organized.

348
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To capture the discourse around the cryptocurrencies, attention has also been paid to relevant content on social media platforms where indigenous engage in discussions about cryptocurrency.

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So in this slide, I'll discuss an interesting case. Found during my fieldboard. Ithony is a 29 year old person with cryptocurrency trading as his major employment during my observations of Anthony's financial practices on top currency platforms.

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I discovered that he managed his finance using both rupees, the official currency of India and cryptocurrencies.

351
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I found that Anthony had engaged with more than 200 cryptocurrencies across 5 exchange platforms over one year.

352
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What's stood out in Anthony's case was his attribution of specific characteristics to the money he used when managing his finance with cryptocurrencies.

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He distinguished money used for payment, investment, savings and trading purposes. For example, when discussing investments, he considered money that he expected to increase in value over time.

354
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When discussing payments and savings, he preferred money he anticipated good remain stable and secure in value. He would combine and utilize these different types of money when engaging in trading activities.

355
01:07:53.000 --> 01:08:00.000
Anthony view owning Bitcoin and Edheim as investments referring to this action as holding.

356
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While he did not consider Rupi as an investment. But rupees were used for payments of goods and services in the traditional market since they were the only form of legally accepted currency in the country.

357
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Antony considered owning rupees and BUSD crypto, a stable coin picked to the value of US dollar as savings.

358
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Anthony located 30% of his savings to rupees. They deposited in a state regulated bank account and the remaining 70 person to BUSD cryptocurrency which he held in his centralized This allocation allowed him to limit his purchase pending as cryptocurrency is not widely accepted as a legal tender.

359
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Antony pursued the exchange value of cryptocurrency BUSD as stable and secure enable EC conversion into f currency through exchanges if necessary.

360
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Hi there. Regarding trading activities, Anthony ventured into more than 200 cryptocurrencies based on market analysis and the information he gathered from his social relations.

361
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This case, illustrate how the coexistence of CID and alternative currencies, each governed by different authorities and corresponding exchanges leads to a diverse arrangement of relational year marking of money that significantly impact personal finance.

362
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Furthermore, it is noteworthy that Anthony had to maintain specific social relations with various actors and groups to effectively manage this finance which will be exploding further in the next slide.

363
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So during my research, I discovered that Anthony had to navigate specific social relations within his family and neighborhood to facilitate the flow of money into cryptocurrencies and sustain his financial activities involving cryptocurrencies.

364
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These relations encompassed monetary and non-monetary exchanges such as gifts and favors.

365
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And today's introduction to cryptocurrencies came through his brother's school friend and they further educated themselves by actively engaging with cryptocurrency groups on social media platforms.

366
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They decided to invest in cryptocurrencies and the plan was that Anthony's brother engaged in gig work.

367
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Hive.

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Good to generate income that and Yeah, yeah. Anthony would then utilize for trading based on information obtained from social media influences and cryptocurrency groups.

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Anthony and his brother started earning profits and gaining more knowledge about cryptocurrencies. So they presented themselves as entrepreneurs to their family.

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They successfully convinced their housewife mother to invest money in cryptocurrencies with her borrowing 3 lacerities from a peer lending circle in the neighborhood.

371
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Andy and his brother also shared their experiences with 2 friends from the neighborhood who joined the cryptocurrency groups and began using cryptocurrencies themselves.

372
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Antony received an additional cryptocurrency as an incentive when his friends join the cryptocurrency platform through his referral link.

373
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Using the earnings generator through cryptocurrencies, Antony Organizes personal finance as outlined in the previous line.

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He took responsibility for managing a portion of their household expenses and his mother and brother evaluated their investment based on how well Anthony meant these expenses.

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So in this slide, I'll discuss, the several online groups that the literature has shown to be integral in facilitating cryptocurrency by maintaining an online suburbs.

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I had the opportunity to attend to offline gatherings of these cryptocurrency online groups. Contrary to what the literature suggests, I discovered that the people involved in crypto were not predominantly men working in the IT sector.

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Instead, it consisted of individuals from divers for occupations, including women who use their actual offline identities rather than pseudonyms.

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They belong to professions ranging from doctors to gig workers with a significant number of them being unemployed and considering cryptocurrency trading as their primary source of income.

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Most participants fell into the group of 20 to 35. Although a few end users were over 35.

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It became clear to me that, these were not just anonymous individuals meeting online, but a group with distinctive interpersonal ties, including family, kinship, occupation, and neighborhood connections.

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Many of them utilize this ties to facilitate their cryptocurrency engagements in channeling monetary and non-monetary flows.

382
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Additionally, despite being too different districts in Kerala, they chose to reside in the city of Kochi or visit it frequently due to the city's favorably infrastructure and cultural environment.

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Due to my research, I discovered that had to keep track of their money in the form of cryptocurrencies.

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These groups consistently organize meetups and gatherings where discussions extended beyond cryptocurrency. They tell them to business interests, start up ideas and personal and family matters.

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These gatherings occurred in the neighborhood areas, cafes, theaters and curves providing a conducive environment for members to connect, build personal relationships.

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Engaging with cryptocurrencies, third as a financial endeavor and facilitated socialization within the local community.

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With these relationships, I observed practices of mutual lending, information sharing, collaborative decision-making and mutual support for money transactions both in the form of cryptocurrencies and fields.

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Furthermore, I noted various non-monetary exchanges between individuals and groups, including gift exchanges, lending of vehicles, job reference, providing shelter, celebrating bird days and sharing skills such as technological expertise and financial management.

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So in the interest of time, I'll. Go into the, go into my findings.

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So by examining the social diamonds of cryptocurrency. This study contributes to the broader literature on personal finance and challenges the prevailing understanding of financialization.

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It emphasizes the importance of considering the social nature of money and debt when studying personal finance and the influence of social relationships and cultural context on financial decision making.

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The study shed light on the relation year marking of cryptocurrencies within their personal finance context and the coexistence of FEMA and alternative currencies leading to diverse arrangements of relationship year marking based on specific purposes.

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Instead of coming into the studies that characterize cryptocurrencies as social forms of money shaped by ideologies, imaginaries, narratives and semiotics created by an online subculture over the internet.

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Our research emphasizes the significance of distinctive ties inside the family, household and neighborhood and the city's infrastructure and culture outside of online interactions facilitating the flow of monetary and non-monetary flows into cryptocurrencies and sustaining financial activities involving cryptocurrencies.

395
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So recognizing the social dimensions of cryptocurrency, can help end users make informal, informed the financial choices and navigate the complexities of managing cryptocurrencies within their personal finances.

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Policy makers, our study, suggests policy makers, to consider cryptocurrency social and relation aspects when formulating regulations and policies.

397
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Related to personal finance and cryptocurrencies. I hope, that this study could also add to the monetary and financial reforms question by which I mean a healthy conversation on effectively organizing money and finance in the future.

398
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Thank you.

399
01:15:51.000 --> 01:16:06.000
Wonderful. Thank you very much. We. In order to be able to, what's the next step then so that we could see.

400
01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:09.000
Okay, yes that we could see so that we could see all the presenters. Okay, yes that we could see so that we could see all the presenters.

401
01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:17.000
So for those of you who are online we're going to collect questions and so please type your questions to Tim.

402
01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:22.000
Okay, is that okay? It's suppose that we'll we'll collect those at the end.

403
01:16:22.000 --> 01:16:37.000
So, let's see. In order to collect questions, Can I move? Yeah, yes, please, Even then I can tell you they actually have to say.

404
01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:47.000
So, Okay.

405
01:16:47.000 --> 01:16:48.000
Thank you. Okay, so any comments and questions? I would like to kind of collect as many as possible.

406
01:16:48.000 --> 01:17:03.000
Let's start off in the back. Here you go. And could you also please use your name and My name is Al.

407
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:08.000
I'm from Rutgers University in the US. So, I'm also doing my PhD.

408
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:25.000
So my question is that I saw many scholars they use the interviews as their research method. So, so the question is that when you select the interview is what is your like select procedures or some like criteria when you select the interview E.

409
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So, so why I ask this question is that I feel sometimes when you select the interview is sometimes you are like more biased Like when I do this, like research with my professor, he's white and he's old.

410
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When we do the survey, most of our respondents, they are like old and white. So, so especially when you do this, like for example, the stock investment.

411
01:17:54.000 --> 01:18:10.000
Research like Most of the. I feel like like around me like most people around me they do the investment in terms of the stock so so the interview is there like a lot of people there you can select.

412
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:30.000
So my question for for the Cryptal currency paper and also the stock investment paper so how you select and what are their backgrounds in terms of their age education or their age, education, or their SL level or something.

413
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:36.000
Yes, we have 30Â min so I think we can adjust everyone's questions. Thank you, Adam.

414
01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:46.000
Hi, I'm Barbara with us. Anyone's questions. Thank you, Adam. Hi, I'm Barbara with usaniel from Florida State University and my question is for all the 3 authors who are working on the Indian financial scene.

415
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The reason being I am also working on financialization, about working-class, urban working-class households in India.

416
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So one thing I was thinking of, of course, there's no cultivation of investors subjectivities among the middle classes or upper classes in India and that made me wonder if some of the investments are also debt finance investments.

417
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And certainly one of the examples highlighted that somebody borrowed a pretty large sum of money in order to invest.

418
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So that made me wonder about the interplay between better subjectivities versus investor subjectivities.

419
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And this would be interesting to observe in the classes that the 3 of you are studying. Because in my study of working-class households what I see is mostly the emergence of data subjectivities because what you have there is a lot of borrowing for consumption purposes not of the kinds of investment purposes that we observe among the middle and

420
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upper classes. So you have just the cultivation of better subjectivities. But among the classes that those 3 papers are addressing, it seems that they could be both of these subjectivities that are taking hold that I wonder do people feel a contradiction between that or is one of them more subconscious, maybe the better subjectivity is more sort

421
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of underground and subconscious whereas people are more actively thinking of themselves as investors rather than debtors. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts about how these 2 processes are coming up either in parallel or in uneven ways.

422
01:20:07.000 --> 01:20:20.000
Thank you. Yes, thank you. Hello, I'm Lena. I'm a research squad at IIFT in Delhi.

423
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So my question is about like stock market and cryptocurrency investing. The one who discuss about stock market, I just wanted to know you followed our interview-based approach.

424
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I just wanted to know there are these people are generally from 20 to 30 And could you study their investment objectives like what kind of investment, what kind of trading strategies do they follow?

425
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Do they short sell or what what level of risk do they take and how long they want to invest in the market and also Are they, do they consider aspects like ESG and listing?

426
01:20:55.000 --> 01:21:14.000
Are they more specific about the companies and what companies are they messing in. So that that is what and Abraham for cryptocurrencies like do you think cryptocurrency can be the future of personal finance so that is my question to both of you.

427
01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:22.000
Thanks very much. Who else? Okay. Hi, thank you so much for such brilliant papers.

428
01:21:22.000 --> 01:21:36.000
My name's Monique Mackenzie from the University of Sydney. I do want to start by apologizing for my knowledge perhaps about the economic structures in India.

429
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I study similar kind of ideas about investment but from an angular capitalist economy. So apologies in advance for the gaps in my knowledge.

430
01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:56.000
But what I wanted to ask for the last 3 speakers is in what ways do these strategies of speculation result from the disintegration of traditional models of wealth building and financial security.

431
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So home ownership, long-term and stable labor relationships and social welfare that maybe these young people, their parents experienced and what I really enjoyed.

432
01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:14.000
This is not like in India, sorry, Ab Abraham's. I think. No,

433
01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:23.000
Sorry, your presentation about investment without being dead money. That was really interesting about investment about being dead money.

434
01:22:23.000 --> 01:22:27.000
That was really interesting about being dead money. Like that was really interesting and is that because young people like their parents have homes and that's seen as dead money.

435
01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:29.000
That was really interesting. Is that because young people like their parents have homes and that's seen as dead money or is it in another way?

436
01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:39.000
So I guess yeah my question is is where does this kind of these strategies come from? In reference to it's sort of a more historical wage labor based.

437
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Wealth building. So thank you.

438
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:50.000
Other questions? Yes. Yes, Hary Meek from Humboldt University, Berlin.

439
01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:59.000
Again, a question as to cryptocurrencies. There is much volatility, particularly in the last years.

440
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Kept the currencies and we know from research also from psychology and financial behavior research that you have to cope with that.

441
01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:20.000
Is it simply ignored or what does it with the people this high volatility?

442
01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:27.000
Okay, thank you very much really really and talk about the stock market especially as one question is for the DC India's case.

443
01:23:27.000 --> 01:23:46.000
Sorry, my name is Miami. II am from Japan. So there actually this India's case is very fascinating because actually in Japan and also in Taiwan the similar case happened.

444
01:23:46.000 --> 01:24:08.000
So actually I'm very curious about this is a moral investor. So this idea is how to understand the debris because I think in Taiwan and in Japan actually many students and other younger investors doing some kind of movement, civic movement.

445
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So how to deal with this kind of very risky the investing stock market. So actually I'm very curious about the the moral investor.

446
01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:30.000
This idea is very similar to this kind of a civic movement or a totally different idea. So, so this is my first question.

447
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:39.000
And the second question is for the Taiwan case, so to Professor Chen, there this the credit rating.

448
01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:56.000
This is a very interesting point because the SME would like to borrow money from their The banks, this is a very important point, but actually according to the chains the Dr.

449
01:24:56.000 --> 01:25:02.000
Chain's study, actually this is a really important point is in Taiwan the social relationship is much much more important than the standardized credit rating.

450
01:25:02.000 --> 01:25:15.000
So this is because of the company and the bank's relationship is very long term or really short term.

451
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:35.000
So I'm really curious about the history relationship is must accumulate for a long time or one shot or this kind so this is the second question thank you very much

452
01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:42.000
Yes. Yes. Tim Klausener from the Technical University of Berlin. I have a question to Annie Root.

453
01:25:42.000 --> 01:26:12.000
I found your reasons for the retail investment boom in Indra very plausible but I think you I would ask you which significance you see in the new trader apps like that have been developed in the past years and on the on the retail investment boom and I would also have one question to Alyssa Gironde, but I think she's

454
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not. In the Zoom call or maybe she turned to Robin Buffett. Maybe she is worn about that.

455
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And then had that strange. One of the questions that I was just asking how she gathered the data because she's dealing with Chinese data.

456
01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:47.000
It's very hard to investigate with Chinese data and wanted to ask. How she analyzed the documents, how she got the documents and so on.

457
01:26:47.000 --> 01:27:00.000
Other comments or questions? Alright. Let's see and maybe I'll I'd also like to, ask, Using 10.

458
01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:14.000
Yep, fascinating story. So, I was wondering in I see the arguments about why one would use credit ratings that are not actually.

459
01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:27.000
The one I was most puzzled by, and so maybe you could give like an example or. Any kind of pattern that you see in your data, which is I'm trying to imagine the salesperson.

460
01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:35.000
And the credit risk person talking to one another, negotiating with one another about whether the loan should be accepted or not.

461
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:56.000
And they are using the credit rating that they both agree is false information. So you're saying that it's useful for communication and I can see that in theory but I can't quite visualize that yet and Alicia Jerome I'm not sure if you were there, but I am curious if you are there.

462
01:27:56.000 --> 01:28:15.000
I'd love to hear your thoughts. Maybe before we, so each of you will have Which time do we have?

463
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:24.000
We have half an hour, I believe. Does it end at 5 30? Thanks. 520. Thank you very much.

464
01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:31.000
And we've got 5 sets about It's only about 4Â min each. Not very much time.

465
01:28:31.000 --> 01:28:37.000
But so is Alicia Jerome there. She's, she's definitely not. Okay.

466
01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:43.000
And then Warren, any questions from the,

467
01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:50.000
Thank you very much. There are 4 questions in the chat. The first is from Warren Buffett.

468
01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:58.000
A similar phenomenon is taking place in Indonesia stock market. However, my sense is that most retail investors are actually traders.

469
01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:07.000
I scalping day trader or swing traders to similar phenomena in do similar phenomena appear in India.

470
01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:14.000
The second question from Raji Ray, if a presenter has a question to another presenter should we write it down or speak it out.

471
01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:25.000
Just write it down. Or speak it out. Third question from June Wang. My question is to Abram.

472
01:29:25.000 --> 01:29:36.000
Wonderful research do you distinguish different types of social networks like kinship work or neighbors in terms of their waiting, relational impacts.

473
01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:44.000
Or sequence. And then the last question, I am Calips, a PhD student from IT Canpur.

474
01:29:44.000 --> 01:29:56.000
My question is to in Excuse me for the pronunciation. While you studied the role of discounted brokers such as Growth and Zaroda.

475
01:29:56.000 --> 01:30:10.000
What do you think about the role of brokers like MOT IL? IL and Oswald who provide both advice and options in to independently invest in the stock market.

476
01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:18.000
What is their role in shaping socially and morally relevant investments? Thanks very much. Okay, now.

477
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:28.000
So each speaker has got 5Â min. Thank you for the questions for Miami and Aaron.

478
01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:45.000
So for the first, question for, I think in a long-term relationship is quite useful to make the SNE owners to borrow money from banker So says free.

479
01:30:45.000 --> 01:30:56.000
So however the life life of the SAE companies, the entire way is now quite long. Usually maybe can be in average around 10 years.

480
01:30:56.000 --> 01:31:10.000
To 15 years. So maybe they will, yeah. But yeah, there's some reason you also suggest, yeah, it's, to no matter how one or other countries.

481
01:31:10.000 --> 01:31:18.000
The social regime is Oh, silly I tell the SMB to get a loan from the bank. Yeah, it's true.

482
01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:27.000
Thank you. About the what to, to make, happening to negotiate and a communication between the sales you need.

483
01:31:27.000 --> 01:31:38.000
Because for example, if we are pretty ranking, they have 10 labels. So above, above all, the mean are setable.

484
01:31:38.000 --> 01:32:01.000
So if even both when I know the SME maybe will make a layer. The best pioneer statements to second they almost lose money But if they make the finance elements were like they're already ready under the fall to made it impossible to discount.

485
01:32:01.000 --> 01:32:28.000
So, I think both of them agree from the sales argument and the view unit. So if they can if the pretty ready is above fall even is not aterate maybe maybe around almost 10 or 9 but doesn't matter but if above 4 we can negotiate but you under 4 okay it's also okay Also, yeah, I

486
01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:33.000
thought the, out of the talk, yeah. They need to pass in. Thank you.

487
01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:38.000
Thank you. Next.

488
01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:43.000
So hi, first of all, thank you, Professor Samuel for the amazing question about better subjectivity and investor subjectivity and it's very interesting.

489
01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:55.000
Because it's linked to I guess in my in the case that I'm presenting here. Is how do these individuals whom for this case have.

490
01:32:55.000 --> 01:33:07.000
So I'm this platform dependent entrepreneurs, how do they view themselves? And even there is this an entire debate in the literature and platforms whether they are workers in itself or the into entrepreneurs.

491
01:33:07.000 --> 01:33:15.000
Or the line the limit of Zoom. From my field, what I understand is when they are, negotiating with the platform for better reads.

492
01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:22.000
Or against the sanctions that they, that come from the platforms. Be taken the role of the worker.

493
01:33:22.000 --> 01:33:31.000
But when it is about this autonomy and flexibility working at any time and also this kind of interacting in the market to build the asset like a car.

494
01:33:31.000 --> 01:33:48.000
Get a vehicle. We are very entrepreneurial and they are hustling. In so in many ways what I see is that that kind of a getter and the investor subsidies are not present the same time, but do we but we do see co-currents at many places.

495
01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:57.000
For example, if somebody's defaulting alone. That form of an entrepreneur hustling or getting that kind of a finance or as.

496
01:33:57.000 --> 01:34:01.000
Goes out and it is actually how do you keep this boat offload? And in many ways, there is the 0 subjectivity that we see at those point of time.

497
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:12.000
So that's there would be this kind of a to go on to the question that, I forgot name, I think it's Mackenzie.

498
01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:24.000
Ms. Mckenzie asked about this translation of into a new form of asset building. You know, we each labor-based, economy.

499
01:34:24.000 --> 01:34:38.000
So even in the case that I'm studying on platforms, especially this right healing sector. People borrow, go to the pines and or the money lenders only when their family cannot support them in a certain way, right?

500
01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:44.000
And even if the family can support them, it is in the form of an asset like a land. So what do you do with that land?

501
01:34:44.000 --> 01:34:52.000
You don't have to get rid of that land. You want to rather keep it as a security and more so that you can The idea is that you'll get that land back or the gold back.

502
01:34:52.000 --> 01:35:02.000
Cause land and gold in the in perspective of global south it has a ritualistic value it has a intimate value in that market in many ways.

503
01:35:02.000 --> 01:35:08.000
So in many ways, these kind of transformations are happening and the and I think there are these realms of asset building that's taking place.

504
01:35:08.000 --> 01:35:18.000
One at the intimate level, one at the market level that's at the platform, how do you get a car or how do you buy a bike or a mobile phone?

505
01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:22.000
So there are these viewers of exchanges that are somewhere in transverse. At a daily level by these kind of platform dependent entrepreneurs.

506
01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:30.000
So yeah. That's it.

507
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:42.000
Thanks very much. Are you looking? I will try to answer the many many questions received. The first I think are very important on interview selection.

508
01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:52.000
So one of the great challenges and possibly the limitations of this kind of work is that people are always unwilling to talk about their finance and they are very suspicious.

509
01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:58.000
It becomes even more difficult when the market shifts online because you don't have a physical space to actually find investors.

510
01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:16.000
So the first strategy for selection was going through personal contacts right that had to be because of which of course there were biases in order to count to that I also did participant observation of some of these investment courses that I was speaking about.

511
01:36:16.000 --> 01:36:32.000
So all the attendees who came there, both online and offline also became my participant so I tried to eliminate not entirely successful of course the bias in terms of gender and in terms of region specifically.

512
01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:44.000
Age group of course was 21 to 35 but yes this is a critical challenge because you need to go through personal contact so that becomes the first step and that introduces a significant bias.

513
01:36:44.000 --> 01:36:50.000
That's the first. Professor Perumeta on, They turn and investor subjectivity is excellent question.

514
01:36:50.000 --> 01:37:01.000
Thank you so much. I think in the class that I'm discussing the so-called middle class in India, not really the middle, but middle class in India.

515
01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:24.000
The investor subjectivity definitely dominates even when they draw on money from their parents. It is not understood as debt because in that class the money of your parents is a communal pool and you are sharing and you are not borrowing unlike maybe say in the US where money is borrowed or giving rent to your parents is common in there's anathema so

516
01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:33.000
you know it's sharing you take from the communal pool in many ways. So I would say the investor's objectivity dominates compared to the data subjectivity.

517
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:38.000
There are cases of people borrowing a lot of money for investing in the market and then going bust.

518
01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:39.000
Heavily looked down upon. It is not the ideal of the model investor, not the responsible investor.

519
01:37:39.000 --> 01:38:02.000
You draw from the communal pool of the family. That's great. But do not draw on any other source of finance that tends to be the general way it's going to I think Lena was the name in terms of the strategies of investment and I'll combine that with the name in terms of the strategies of investment and I'll combine that with the question online by Warren

520
01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:03.000
Buffett. And I'll combine that with the question online by Warren Buffett on the way in the question online by Warren Buffett on the way in which investment is shaping in India.

521
01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:10.000
The way in which investment is shaping in India. In the West, generally there tends to be a very clear distinction.

522
01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:12.000
In the West, generally there tends to be a very clear distinction. If you look at the sociology of finance, that tends to be a very clear distinction.

523
01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:22.000
If you look at the sociology of finance, that tends to be drawn between investors and traders. That tends to be drawn between investors and traders.

524
01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:26.000
So traders are finance that tends to be drawn between investors and traders. So traders are trade in large volumes, shorter durations, investors and longer duration. In India, you tend to see a deep mixture.

525
01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:34.000
There is nobody who clearly identifies as the trader even though there is it's a very small number they tend to mix their strategies use multiple strategies so the idea is whatever sticks works.

526
01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:45.000
So it's not a very clear distinction that we can find. There are people who do very short term day trading as well, but it tends to be lower because it tends to be a mixed portfolio approach where they will also invest in things like gold.

527
01:38:45.000 --> 01:39:03.000
But to what extent? That's the question, right? So the clear difference that this is a trader, this is an investor, something that you can actually see in the US very hard to say that in the case of India.

528
01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:09.000
To Mackenzie's excellent question on the disintegration of traditional wealth models and wage labor-based wealth building.

529
01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:14.000
I don't think wage labor-based wealth building has gone because the primary source of their investment is still coming from income that they earn elsewhere.

530
01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:31.000
They're not investing for the sake of just that. This is not their life. They will be doctors and engineers and MBAs and so on and so forth and they will take that money and put it short for whatever reason for it to grow and for it to survive inflation and so on.

531
01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:54.000
Yes, traditional models of investing. For instance, property and gold have lost their shine but the point is that if you look at the data they had lost their shine even in the early 2 thousands right property markets and rental yields were not rising significantly even in the early 2 thousands but you don't see a retail investment boom.

532
01:39:54.000 --> 01:40:08.000
So the reason therefore cannot be sufficiently explained simply by the negative that is that the traditional modes of investing for the middle class disappeared hence we did investing, something needs to push.

533
01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:19.000
On discount brokers and traditional brokers like Mtila Rosal which was Rajushi's question, they do exist, but if you look at the dominance of the, I think that was called Patience question, I'm sorry.

534
01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:30.000
The dominance of the discount brokers, right? So, a, etc. It's massive.

535
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:38.000
The number of people on discount breaking platforms as opposed to traditional working platforms, there is a significant difference. As opposed to traditional working platforms, there is a significant difference.

536
01:40:38.000 --> 01:40:39.000
So one can actually investigate what impact it has on as opposed to traditional working platforms, there is a significant difference. So one can actually investigate what impact it has on the traditional brokers.

537
01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:46.000
So one can actually investigate what impact it has on the traditional brokers. I just perhaps didn't have the time to do it so what impact it has on the traditional brokers.

538
01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:48.000
I just perhaps didn't have the time to do it so I don't have the traditional brokers.

539
01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:51.000
I just perhaps didn't have the time to do it so I don't have anything else to say specifically on that to Professor Mayumi's question on the question of the moral investor.

540
01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:58.000
I think that's the last. I'm yet to think more deeply on what constitutes this idea of morality.

541
01:40:58.000 --> 01:41:05.000
There is a moral element as I have definitely demonstrated how that contrasts and distinguish from existing models of morality in society or moral approaches to money is a question.

542
01:41:05.000 --> 01:41:22.000
Can I just answer one small thing? There was I think Tim right if I'm not wrong Tim's question on new trading apps I think you were suggesting that I need to pay more attention to the structure of these trading apps and how they facilitate a treating.

543
01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:33.000
I think you're absolutely right. But my answer to that is that the existence of infrastructure in itself does not guarantee that reading will happen is the larger point.

544
01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:43.000
So it definitely provides the ground but what pushes right so that push is something that I was trying to in the state.

545
01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:49.000
Very admirable answer to many questions. Up here on you have the last word.

546
01:41:49.000 --> 01:42:10.000
Hi everyone, thank you for the wonderful questions. I think Raj and Aniroud has already answered the question like the my answer would be like very similar to the questions of adapter subjectivities and investors subjectivities and also the like how did I contact my interview it's very similar to what any road

547
01:42:10.000 --> 01:42:18.000
has already said And, I think I'll go on to answer the question. I don't remember the name.

548
01:42:18.000 --> 01:42:28.000
I'm so sorry for that. So the question was, what are the trading strategies used by the cryptocurrency users.

549
01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:37.000
So actually, and also I'll combine another question that was asked like, do the, do the cryptocurrency users think that crypto is the future of their finance?

550
01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:46.000
So actually the trading strategy and, whether they think the few, their future of personal finance is clipped to it actually depends upon how much.

551
01:42:46.000 --> 01:43:04.000
Money they can channelize from the distinctive social relations that are that they are part of like how much money they can channelize from the family how much money they can channelize from their neighborhood enable ties and how much money they can analyze from their team networks.

552
01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:17.000
So, this is actually defining their training strategy and it varies, within like different, types of investors and it actually depends upon their occupation as well.

553
01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:18.000
Oh and also and to the question of like whether they think, is the future of the finance?

554
01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:25.000
No, they don't think, is the future of the finance? No, they don't think that crypto is the future of the finance?

555
01:43:25.000 --> 01:43:41.000
No, they don't think that crypto is the future of their personal finance or it's like they know that like all the things like all the things like all the traditional way of investment in land, or the traditional way of investment in gold, investment in land, and, also investment in stocks and investment.

556
01:43:41.000 --> 01:43:45.000
investment in gold, investment in land, and, also investment in stocks and investment, in the, in, also investment in stocks and investment, in the, in forms of, fixed deposits in banks.

557
01:43:45.000 --> 01:43:52.000
So, they, they discuss all these things and all these things become part of their portfolio.

558
01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:58.000
For instance, like in a cryptocurrency group, of a cryptocurrency collective like it's an investor community.

559
01:43:58.000 --> 01:44:12.000
They discuss all these things and they generally suggest not to invest all your wealth on crypto they always suggest not to invest all your wealth on crypto they always ask people to diversify their portfolio.

560
01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:24.000
And they suggest people to take the responsibility of one soul investment like to take the indigenous responsibility of one's own investment.

561
01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:32.000
So that's, that's the thing. And, the second, question asked to me was, from Dr.

562
01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:50.000
Zwang. Thank you for the wonderful questions. The question was do you see do you distinguish different types of Do you, distinguish different types of social networks like kinship or work or neighborhood in terms of their waiting relation impacts or sequence.

563
01:44:50.000 --> 01:45:14.000
So. I don't have a proper answer to this question, but I'll discuss one observation that I have from my field that is, regarding like how much, how much money the corporate users channelize from family and kinship is much greater than the money that they channelized from their neighborhood.

564
01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:25.000
And, when there is a loss of investment. There is no, like, the kinship and the family and household networks.

565
01:45:25.000 --> 01:45:41.000
They don't expect the reciprocity. But the neighborhood networks if money standardized from there they expect a reciprocity and it is like the neighborhood debts are paid.

566
01:45:41.000 --> 01:45:49.000
Again by channelizing money from their family and kinship. And the next, question, I don't know who asked this question.

567
01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:56.000
The question was, regarding the volatility of the crypto, is it, recognized or is it ignored?

568
01:45:56.000 --> 01:46:03.000
So definitely the volatility of the cryptocurrency is. Taken into account it is not ignored.

569
01:46:03.000 --> 01:46:17.000
It is so the cryptocurrency uses actively involve in this cryptocurrency collective and engage in the online discussions as well as maintaining the interpersonal ties outside of online interactions.

570
01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:39.000
To decide whether. To decide like how, the volatility of the cryptocurrency will go and then they make a financial decision on how much I should capitalize on the volatility of the So I think I might have missed some of the questions but so sorry in the interest of time I'll stop my

571
01:46:39.000 --> 01:46:40.000
discussion.

572
01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:47.000
Thank you very much. I believe this just demonstrates once again how much expertise there is in the audience.

573
01:46:47.000 --> 01:46:59.000
I really appreciate your comments and your questions. And let us give a hand to all of our presenters online and offline.