Okay.
So good afternoon everyone. My name is Hugh Campbell and I have I am in the chair for time keeping this session.
Thank you all for coming to talk about animal welfare. The last but by no means the least important topic in RC.
40. As we have done in every session, we acknowledge the people of this country. And it is a privilege to be in this particular part of the world and we honor the people who for whom this is home and their land.
So To make this work, do we start with a stop share? You need phones. Yes, So Suzanne, are you present and in a stronger voice.
Yeah, Kyoto, hear you.
Yes, hello, how are you?
Very well, thank you. I'll just wait.
So it's my great pleasure to call across the Tessman to one of my colleagues from New Zealand, Dr.
Suzanne Valance, who's speaking on behalf of herself and Peter Edwards and Martin S.
Big and Suzanne you've obviously you know what to do because you've already started sharing your screen.
Yeah.
And you should take it away. And so we've got 15Â min for you to present and then 5Â min of questions.
Thank you.
And if you hear my voice suddenly loom out of the ether or my face appears in front of you on the screen that means you've got 5Â min and then 2Â min to go.
How does it sound?
Wonderful. Thank you. That sounds good. Kyoto.
Yeah, Suzanne Balance here from, I work at land care research in New Zealand.
And this research was part of a bigger project, under one of New Zealand's national science challenges, the social Sorry, this.
So the National Science Challenge was our land and water and this social licensed farm was a was a smaller project within that 10 year challenge so this research is only for a year and a half and we're about a year through so some of these ideas are kind of works and progress.
So I'll just put that out there for the for the nonce. So yeah, we were looking at, generally.
The social license to and we found a few items of interest that related specifically to animal welfare that got us thinking.
So before I go too much further on the animal welfare side of things. I'll just park a wee moment on the issue of social license and, what that means.
Social licence is not a legal legal permit. It's not a law. There's no statute attached to it.
At it's really just a signal about an industry's legitimacy. Credibility. What levels of public approval acceptance or, protest endorsement there might be around an activity or an industry.
Or even a particular program. So social licence can apply to all. All sorts of things across different scales.
But despite not having a legal status as it's informal, social license can still have really tangible effects on the way inactivity or operation is undertaken.
So a good example here in New Zealand at the moment. Is around genetic modification and as part of this sort of election campaign.
The national government has said we're going to lift the ban on genetic modification. There is actually no no legal ban on genetic modification in New Zealand but because of the sort of activists and protests around GM.
We when it first came to New Zealand. There's so much disapproval there was so much disapproval at that time that GM research has been very difficult to undertake.
So there isn't a formal band, but informally social license has not been achieved and so we haven't seen a lot of genetic modification.
Resent your activity here in New Zealand.
Hi, so some of the debates around social license are around that relationship between the social license which is informal and formal regulation statute and you know those laws that can become legally enforceable.
We know that social license ebbs and flows over time and there might be particular events. That either in enhance or detract from a social license so again another example here in New Zealand at the moment we've had some cyclones.
And on the east coast there's there was a lot of forestry. And some of that forestry slash has, really devastated the escape.
So at the moment we are seeing statements like forestry has lost its social license. And we can we can see the intestines of that disapproval previously but the event has really crystallized some of that disapproval and protest over the industry.
But that brings me to my next point, who grants social license. General public versus those affected. So again with regards to the forestry example.
Useful many people in the East Cape and indeed around the country. Of probably thinking and feeling differently about forestry at the moment.
There are many people whose livelihoods depended on forestry. So who's affected?
And how they are affected positively and negatively can affect. That social license.
Just been, you know, a lot of, lot of research and academic interest in the concept.
But Just sort of leading into our own research here. We are looking at. How and through and what ways.
We're social license might actually be negotiated. So we've sort of drawn on Moffat and Jang's work looking at contact quality.
And procedural fairness. As to sort of, I guess. Not guiding principles, but we're sort of.
Taken those as some key ideas to work with.
So going on to social licensed farm, we started thinking, well, what sort of things are actually being negotiated?
What goes into this social license was sorts of activities. Where are these negotiations occurring physically but also, and what sort of abstract spaces?
So we went. Looking at particular locations necessarily we thought about the wear in quite broad terms. And then how are those negotiations undertaken to sort of get back at that idea of contact quality as being quite important in those negotiations.
And as we undertook these investigations and started sort of conducting a bit of an inventory of what was being negotiated where and how.
Animal welfare started coming through as a really strong theme and that that social license.
So in terms of the what? Definitely animal welfare. Was one of those key themes. So this is a, the top picture there.
I'm afraid it hasn't come through particularly clearly. I might have to explain what's going on, but this is happy hens.
And that's what the science is there. It's Forage Farms. Happy Hens and those sort of little brown brown things that you can see by the by the silver.
Shed they are in fact chickens running around presumably having a lot of fun. So the eggs that you buy from this particular.
Roadside shop. You know, they're from Happy Hens, from Happy H.
Free range things. And they do a very good business. When you ever stop to get eggs, I can't, they've all gone.
So, animal welfare definitely, being used in quite a positive sense here. On the other picture here we've got, Facebook got a snapshot from a Facebook page.
Talking about a feedlot that was going to be built in a valley beside a lake. What's the lakes already quite degraded and so people were very concerned about it being degraded more.
But, people protested against this, feed lot that the farmers applied for a consent to do the fade lot there was a lot of public there were a lot of public submissions on the process.
So again, we see that blaring of sort of formal and formal social license. And but overwhelmingly the submissions were negative people were protesting about animal welfare being locked up in these sheds.
But also connecting that to these other sorts of issues as well. So environmental degradation. And the well being of the people working in that environment.
So animal welfare is definitely coming through and social licensed farm but what we're seeing is that it's part of a package that, that doesn't always just sit by itself as being.
Can you do staff well being in the environment quite strongly? Other issues that sort of. Swirled around some of those animal welfare issues that you know the what of social-licensed farm.
From the other direction, a lot of New Zealand cities have been sprawling out, out, out onto good agricultural land.
So we're starting to see some support for farming in the protection of agricultural land, particularly at the urban periphery.
A lot of debates coming through about food security and food sovereignty the democratization of food and fiber localization.
In Cairo which is Indigenous Molly would for, you know, good healthy, food.
And I think some of these things being framed a little bit by COVID and experiencing some. Disruptions and supply chains and people becoming a bit more aware about where their food is coming from.
And going to. So I have some of the what issues. In terms of how social license was being negotiated, there were definitely, programs and protests.
So the top story there just an an except from a and use feed, talking about, Bobby Cars, so the baby cars are seem to slaughter, their bullcars.
You know, get milk out of them. So traditionally they've been seen slaughter at a young age.
So this became quite controversial and certainly if you tries the history of that debate now we now we've got laws laws around.
How we treat body calves, but it started off as the informal protest and it became a media hot potato.
How am I going you? I can see your face but I'm not sure if that's just because you're
My face, my face l to be. 5Â min to go.
Okay, cool. Thank you. So we have those sort of protest. Negotiations but we also see more sort of productive negotiations where there's some kind of conciliation or negotiation face-to-face.
Stuff happening. So, we've got community events down at the bottom corner there and also things farmers actually undertaking, I guess a deliberate attempt to shape public opinion.
So campaigns like the Big Feed which was where farmers actually donated animals or products. To a bigger cause, addressing food and security in New Zealand.
So definitely running the gamma and animals are involved in that sort of from right through from very productive and and and collaborative negotiation through those protests.
Where this is all happening? Well, it's actually happening all over the place on farm. So farmers again as part of their trying to shape public opinion opening up their farms.
So there is a campaign called Open Farms. There are also lots of people who are inviting the public and writing, charging the public a fee to come onto their farm and stroke an alpaca or whatever.
Might be involved here. So on farm definitely, increasingly we're seeing a lot of product on products so standards you know the SPCA tech free range so lots auditing and standards and those sorts of things appearing on product.
Obviously in in market supermarkets certain products are promoted as being animal friendly or you know consistent with standards of animal welfare.
And then we've got lots of other places to farmers markets and roadside stalls as well.
So at the gives pointy end of, things. Summarizing what we're finding animal welfare definitely can be kind of one of the flagship issues coming through and the social license to farm space, but it does seem to be.
Conflated with a lot of other issues as well. So farming, animal welfare is part of that bigger social license too far, strong connections there.
Where and how farming is undertaken is certainly coming through and cultural well-being as well and on a motor hockey the right self-determination, economics, self-determination for Maori.
On Marie Lend or Marie L. Well, was noted and was confiscated or bought over time.
But reasserting that, economic basis for Yeah, economic self-determination of Marty here.
I guess one of the other things that the ideas that we've been playing with is that matching the issue, you know, the seriousness of the issue.
With where you engage with people and how you do that may be key to an ongoing productive negotiations you know we've seen some negotiations that stall and protest and adversity and adversarial sort of settings and accusations and it can get a bit wild especially on social media.
So actually knowing, you know, there's a sort of a Well, you know, a little, we don't really like it.
This is, you know, this is deeply, culturally offensive or, you know, this is, This is broadly inappropriate boss scale we need to.
Thank you. Perhaps put some energy into thinking about got it getting a good match across those things.
So that's actually I think where I'm going to end. I just would like to acknowledge National Science Challenge, Alien and Water.
I would like to acknowledge moving the middle. Where some of this data came from and also Dr Sarah Edwards who wasn't on the initial list of authors when I think this and the abstraction but she's been a strong part of the team.
Subsequently. Thanks you. I'm, I'm done.
So Suzanne, if you unshare your screen.
Yes.
Did you do that? There you go. I can now, All right.
Probably sharing my answer.
There you are. Hello, hello to my fair homeland. So questions? Hilda, because we have an online person, can you introduce yourself?
More than one online person.
Oh. Just grab. Just having microphone issues. I saw my face.
Thank you for very interesting presentation and yeah. On the topic that I'm working on. My question is on to Who's, yeah, who's driving this change for brands and, and standards.
It looks small-scale, so we will see later maybe in Norwegian case there'll be more kind of a supermarket retail.
Market market initiative for this. I'm sorry.
I think there are a number of answers to that. So internationally. There's no way for an for an international buyer to visit the farm and see what's going on for themselves.
So we are seeing a on auditing. Yeah, formal independent investigations to, I guess, satisfy some of those international market requirements.
But I, you know, similarly even within New Zealand now people aren't going out on farms.
They don't necessarily. You know, have the agricultural background that perhaps we used to have as Britain's farm and a sort of colonial.
History. So, you know, even with a New Zealand people don't necessarily know what's happening with their food.
So they are increasingly relying on independent or third parties to Give the tech.
Absolutely. While we're trying to work out our microphone issues, I'm going to, is it going now?
One that's her biddy is the title one. Suzanne, there's, I thought that was very interesting your case of The big feed project in the way in which farm households stepped up.
Okay.
It's not the only political action being taken in New Zealand at the moment by farmers. And if you were to think of the big right wing protests that have broken out in farming lately.
Yeah.
Does animal welfare feature as one of their concerns?
Of the right-wing protesters.
Upgrounds well, yeah.
I haven't really analyzed the package and great detail. I, but I think what they would be trying to say is that they are the best ones to determine what good farming looks like.
It's sort of an anti regulation. Produce movement here in New Zealand and so I think what they're saying is that regulation can't manage these sorts of issues that farmers actually know.
And get your sticky beak out of here, Wellington. Which is a Parliament.
Yeah, I mean my observation yeah, I mean my observation looking at them and probably full disclosure here I'm actually in Suzanne's project.
But my observation here is that is that Groundsville have focused on particular environmental regulations but they're not going after animal welfare concerns as much and I'm curious about that and I'm wondering whether our project's going to go there.
And I'm curious about that and I'm wondering whether our project's going to go there in the as to why they haven't gone after animal welfare isn't an intolerable imposition from Wellington upon their lives whereas as you say they're they're very concerned about greenhouse gas emissions and any curbs on
Hmm.
methane on fresh water impacts. Is the project progressed to the point where we might be looking at some preliminary data?
Certainly there result of this work and I am happy to share. I just wasn't quite sure how, but we have, now got an inventory of all the what we are and how campaigns that we did.
So it's not an inventory that's probably the wrong way, but you know probably a hundred or so examples of what we're in.
A social licensed farmers being negotiated. So that's definitely available and I'm happy to share that.
With anybody who. Contact you. And.
Yeah, exactly. And just because we've only got a minute to go, Suzanna, we've got Professor Vaughan Higgins is at the back of the room and he's now going to walk to the front.
Do you want to come right to the podium or just use that one there. That one's not going.
Yeah. Okay. Born Higgins, University of Tasmania. Hi there.
My question, I guess, links a bit to holders but is slightly different. Is social license.
Sorry, how important is auditing in certification in terms of securing? Our social license or do you think social licenses, sorry, being myself confused or do you think that auditing and certification is a So by baseline.
Operate expectation for these businesses who are operating. Just be interested in your thoughts on that.
I think it depends on perhaps which market you're thinking about. So international markets there are actually in some cases baseline requirements.
And some of the major retailers and purchases in the UK for example are insisting on particular standards.
So we're farming to there and the industry themselves are actually imposing. Certain requirements on the farmers.
So, Fontier, for example, is a dairy co-OP here. You know, they are insisting that they farmers.
Do XY, and Z. With animal welfare but also staff welfare. And the environment.
But then I think you've got a drive from from consumers here as well and they either want to see it so they go to farmers market so they can face to face with the growers.
For they are relying on those sort of there's like an industry you know consultants and auditors and strip companies that sort of stick.
Pen in something and go, yeah, but it's, JEFF or or whatever.
I mean there are definitely authorized and legitimate auditing companies that are themselves audited and then there seems to be this range of sort of softer.
Quasi formal bodies and sort of stamps appearing on food that give the appearance that it's meet some sort of standard but it's completely like you know I could put one on my forehead.
Nobody. Oh, that's me. You know, so I think there's like a huge range, but it does seem to be a real thing that you need a tech of some sort.
You've got to meet some sort of standard, whether it's sugar free or dairy free or you know you can't just you've got to have I'm seeing it all over every product.
But not necessarily always linked to social license. Now you might have licensing. Yeah, Thank you. Thank you very much.
No, sometimes it just looks good. It looks authoritative. Just looks good. You have come.
Suzanne, I'm about to PIN to my fire at the statement saying, unfortunately time is up for your question time so I'd like the room full of excited animal welfare researchers to join me in thanking Suzanne once again.
Give me.
And stay warm over the weekend that the Otago Daily Times has already dubbed Snow Mageddon.
I believe it when my kids start wailing to me over Facebook. All right, thanks Suzanne.
Well, I'm hoping to hold off on my flight. So thanks you. Well, cheered.
Thank you.
Okay, so you stopped, you know, she stopped sharing. Okay. So let's just get the next one up.
Which one do we want? Okay. No, it's actually, Bruce, do you actually have a presentation?
It's, you're the Bju, you actually have a presentation? It's, you're the Bjokhok.
Yeah, Bruce, Bruce Muir here is now going to masquerade as Hilda Burek.
Yeah, so I'd like to welcome, to, stalwarts of rc 40 meetings shall we say but in this case it is our dear friend Bruce Muir from University of Waterloo which was in the news over the last 24Â h in a horrible way.
I don't know if anybody heard, but there was a stabbing in one of the classes on gender studies.
I think it was some sort of in cell guy who stabbed 3 people in the prompt. So yeah.
Yep, so not a happy time at all. Okay, so we are a little bit different. Hilde and I are going to be Join me presenting this.
I'm going to do the first part and then she's going to do the second much more difficult part of this too.
So I have to say preface all this and I see for the non-Canadians in the room anyway Canada is by far and away an urban country in 1,921 it became an urban country in 1,921 census in Canada we had more than 50% of people living in cities as opposed
to rural areas. Ontario, the province in which I live is probably an urban province in 1,901.
So we have a long long many many many years.
Thanks. Many, many years of. Urban life I think and a distance from the farm which probably isn't quite the same as it is in Australia and New Zealand.
So when I heard Suzanne talking about social license, for example, about bobby cabs or what are you going to do with bobby cabs.
I am sure 99% of Canadians wouldn't even know what a bobby cap was. What's a day old chick?
Nobody would know. I'm 99% sure about that for Canada. So these aren't just preface this.
By that to say that it's not really an issue that animates discussion in Canada, animal welfare on the farm.
Animal welfare about dogs and cats maybe. We have all these programs on TV now about emergency bets and things.
I mean it's ridiculous but let's get MRIs and the surgery. That's huge, huge issue.
But I think on farms for the most part people have very very little idea about what goes on on farms for the most part people have very very little idea about what goes on in a farm and most of the time they don't really, very little idea about what goes on in a farm and most of the time they don't really care for a whole bunch
of reasons. Am I? Okay. Yeah, I'm trying to make it move.
I'm a bit of a techno. Oh, the scroller. Oh, that's incredible.
Okay, so what is animal welfare anyway that we start off with so according to the World Organization for Animal Health, that we start off with.
So according to the World Organization for Animal Health, used to be called the OI.
But it's changed its name, I think, a long time ago now. But see, people still call it the IE, but it's.
World Organisation for Animal Health based in Geneva and animal welfare refers to the physical and psychological well-being of an animal.
So I deal with primarily chicken or well lain, egg-laying hens and dairy.
And I realize I have a good colleague at University of Guelph who breeds chickens basically and she says chickens are hens are sentient beans.
I try. To understand that and follow her logic on that, but I'm not entirely sure that I can.
So anyway, so the psychological well-being of an animal is certainly part of all this and she would agree with that.
The welfare of an animal can be described as good or high if the individual is fit, healthy, free to express natural behavior free from suffering and in a positive state of well-being.
I think it would be really good if a lot of people are in this position too, but I think that not always is that the case.
So the concept of animal welfare at least according to the World Organization for Animal Health consists of these 3 elements, the animals normal biological functioning, which I'm sure we all know what that is.
It's emotional state, including the absence of negative emotions such as pain, stress, and chronic fear.
I'm not quite sure how that works if you're a meat chicken or something, but anyway, you know, this is all part and parcel of the exercise and their ability to express certain normal behaviors.
So it's also a new site for a conflict escalating in intensity and implications. This in this conflict again I don't want to overstate the case for Canada maybe we're going to have to nuance this a little bit when we actually come to write this up.
But between consumers and farmers, there is a little bit but not a huge amount in Canada. I guess New Zealand there is some.
On this but in Norway not entirely sure between farmers and authorities I guess if the authorities are the supermarkets maybe there is a little bit of conflict of that in Canada as well and between farmers.
So again farmers who adhere to these kinds of regimes and those who are opposed to them. So these tensions result in new forms of government savanna welfare and investments to secure those.
So that is animating certain, I wouldn't say it's policy, it's certainly not public policy in Canada, but it's maybe farm policy or supermarket policy or some other kind of policy but just not government.
So this as you may know was a huge issue. I've interviewed probably I don't know maybe 25 Australian egg farmers.
Over the years and I was interviewing some when this was a big big issue, 1,500 hence per hectare or 10,000.
This is the whole animal welfare issue in Australia, which makes me think that it is a much, much, much more serious issue here than it might be in Canada, in particular in the egg lane.
Area. So I know that there's a shortage of eggs now in Australia. Also there's talks that eggs in Australia are going to double in price from $5 to $10 a dozen because you're getting rid of all cage eggs and you know this is Canada has similar sorts of things which I'll get to in a moment as
well. Not free range because we do have 6 months of untenable weather for hens being outside.
But basically, we are coming up against certain deadlines perhaps and certain ideas about how we should comport ourselves in free range versus cage versus enhanced.
Environments. So we have this now. At least I wouldn't say in candidates in the public imagination and I'm not entirely sure in Norway if it's in the public imagination the same way that it might be in Australia and New Zealand as well.
So given that then is animal welfare becoming a commodity and when you look at the interest say the one thing in Canada I think a commodity and when you look at the interest say the one thing in Canada I think that becomes real is that supermarkets are now attempting to sell it in a sense and they're selling it
by charging much higher quality. They should charge much higher prices. For free range eggs or something like that too.
But is animal welfare becoming a commodity and some think so of course Buller and Roe come out of there's an article.
Quite an old one now, I guess, of 2,012 is a long time ago. Commodified animal welfare and part of this is that retailers need to demonstrate conformity to public and private animal welfare regulation and mainly in Canada it's private so it's not public at all.
That government seems to have adopted a hands-off approach to all of this. And food chain actors desire to segment food markets and differentiate price.
So if you can charge more. For eggs simply because they're maybe slightly more cost intensive, then supermarkets will do that.
And I think it's the same right across the world now or at least in the Global North supermarkets in Canada are making bumper profits.
And there is a huge outcry now about the cost of the increase in the price of food and it's really sort of, that's animating discussion and supermarkets are basically saying, well, if you want this kind of product and we're gonna have to charge more.
So there are 4 frames. The retail sector, accumulation of power of the food chain. So this is what we see right across the board and certainly in Australia you have coal in Woolworth.
Who basically drive policy in a whole series of areas. You can, I'll just skip through this.
Hilda has some stuff she has to talk about as well and I'm sure I'm rapidly running out of time.
Segmentation, profit and branding. The branding part of this is really, really crucial and in fact the brand is worth more than anything else that the supermarket sells.
So it can sell a dozen eggs, but if it's branded in its name, that's worth a lot more than the 12 eggs that you're buying in the package.
So inclusive segmentation profit and branding, that global gap, red tractor in the UK, NYT, NAR.
Also, exclusive higher welfare brands, which supermarkets like to talk about as well. Assurance schemes, how do the hens live, fed and watered?
What about are they happy? I'm not sure how you determine if the hens happy or not but apparently you can and labeling of course and the labeling thing enable segmentation and price differentiation which is really, really important for the supermarkets.
And it can create and change purchasing behaviour. And I don't know how many people have, in particular young people, have come to me and said, I buy
Free range eggs because I think they're better. Free range eggs are no different from cage eggs.
They have exactly the same nutritional components, the nutritional. I don't know, components in them.
But they cost probably 3 times as much in Canada. Probably $10 a dozen for free range eggs as opposed to cage eggs.
Animal welfare in Norway and Canada. I'm rapidly winding up here. In both countries we see it, David Hilda has to go.
No, you so you get it your own 15Â min? Oh, okay, well, I'm surprised.
For the most part. So farmers can make an egg, I need yolk dark, can make it light, can put in some you know, carotene or whatever it is.
Anyway, farmers are talking to Canadian egg farmers, they think it's a joke for the most part about how consumers they want x or y, they can do it with virtually no effort on their part, but consumers now think that brown child eggs are better than white shelled eggs and dark yolked eggs are better than light yolk.
I mean the Germans, all that kind of stuff. So how's that? Is that good for you?
Okay, in both countries we see attempts to invest in new animal welfare regulations. Driven by expectations of consumer demand.
So the supermarket fast food restaurant, and this is a big driving force in Canada for the most part.
They control increasing areas of the food chain. Food value chain and governance fits really you would call them hardcore capitalistic principles.
So Rheumatism in Norway of course and law law in Canada, but we have 5 grocery chains in Canada that all operate on the same basis.
You know, same thing as Coles and Wolverse in Australia and whatever the cost. Eggs are market-regulated, but farmers are still dependent on a buyer and the monopsonistic position of buyers that is the supermarkets in Norway for sure enables increasing requirements on farmers at farmers cost.
That's in Norway. That's not in Canada. For the most part. And animal welfare is one of those increasing costs I think that are being placed on on farmers and that's certainly the case in Australia with the big debate about 1,500 hence per hectare or 10,000.
Hens per Hector. So whatever, I mean I know it's the official standards 10,000 hands, but Sonny Queen for, 10,000 hands, but Sonny Queen, for example, would say on their cartons that we are hens or populate Hector at 1,500 so it's going to populate Hector at 1,500 so it's going to be a lot
more because it's going to be a lot more because it's less intensive. Blah, blah, blah.
So the cost remains on the farm for that, which means you have to then increase the price if you can through Cals or W worse.
Make up the difference still supermarkets case supermarkets claim the state is asked to come forward but in a Australia that's a pretty Lame hope I think for the most part.
But the creation of animal welfare conditions in Canada is slightly different. Egg farmers invest in expensive new production systems based on consumer demand for certain kinds of eggs but it's also a self-regulated industry through supply management.
Supermarkets in Canada do not control like they do in Australia, certain areas of the egg value chain based on the adoption of in 1,972 of supply management in Canada so it's a farmer-controlled environment that in which farmers.
Sell eggs eggs eggs are not market regulated as well the price is negotiated between egg farmers of Canada and supermarkets about and the graders so we have 2 big graders Great Ridge and Burnbury and they buy all eggs that come through.
For from Canadian farmers to the market. There are about 24 audit points. Considered in setting the price including feed.
For the hands, you know, insurance, electricity, fuel costs, a whole series of things, about 24 of those kinds of items.
Cost of animal welfare measures is spread out over many years as well. They started about 5 years ago and by 2,036 egg farmers of Canada has said that we'll get rid of all caged eggs.
But what they're doing is allowing farmers, say, to run down their existing operations. They last about 20 years.
So if you invested a couple of years ago and they cost about 4 million dollars to hen barns that farmers use.
If you invested a couple of years ago, you don't want to run it down right now. And I think in Australia that's actually what's happening for the most part.
That they're being forced to to redo an investment that they expected to last a much longer period of time.
That has been the case. But in Canada because it's a farmer controlled industry they are now stretching it out till 2,036 and by 2,036 everybody will have either barn eggs which i think isn't a particularly great way but most farmers will probably have enhanced cages. So they're enhanced environments.
They're about they have more hands in them but they have a scratch pad they have a perch you know they have a nesting box in them and they're they basically are in tears the same way like this photo here on the right, but they're just bigger.
There less cannibalism, less feather pecking, less hostile behaviors. So all of the things I think that work out well for hands in an enhanced environment like this.
1Â min. Cost anyway, not left to the farmer alone. I guess I totally missed this up.
My finger is too big. Resume presentation. By B orcar, right?
Take it back to the beginning. You make romance Are you kidding? I have to go to the Hey, the one that you skipped.
Oh, no, this one. Okay, this is the Australian thing. I have come to Australia probably 4 or 5 times in the last 10 years to interview farmers at one time or 5 times in the last 10 years to interview farmers at one time or another and I can't remember how many times in the last 10 years to interview farmers at one time to interview
farmers at one time or another and I can't remember how many times those little orange signs I mean I guess Australians here will know where it says I can't remember how many times those little orange signs I mean I guess Australians here will know that where it says, I mean, I guess the little orange signs, I mean, I guess Australians here will know that where
it says, I mean, I guess Australians here will know that where it says I can't read that one, but it's basically sorry if eggs aren't available. We're having supply problems or something.
And usually, it's all the caged eggs that are You know, the free range eggs that cost $8 a dozen or whatever, they're still on the shelves for the most part, but all the cage eggs are gone and they have supply issues with them.
So anyway, it's it seems to me illogical. Thank you, Bruce. Okay.
16. Don't take it back. Can you roll it back to a couple of slots?
I'll try.
Not that one. So this is Hilda will have to talk about this if you want. There you go.
First, can we ask you questions about this slide that you might prefer to other people don't answer.
Or anybody else in the room who knows more about this than me.
Show show is that there is some kind of differentiation. In the market. And we didn't have time to go through the theoretical stuff here.
So it's based on words of production works of economic production of Sales and stock when we're looking into the value chain.
Material to see how animal welfare is justified within different different areas in the value chain. So, yeah, of course the bulk production goes on mass production do not.
Apply, extra animal welfare labeling or kind of works in a good enough.
Only good enough for a standard perspective while we see some examples of supermarkets driving driving and more welfare as a commodity one of the retailers and we see specialty products.
So there is something going on in in the market. I think in our way we see it in Australia.
Not so much in Canada maybe or? Okay. With my co-author and I will definitely have some discussions on how we're gonna work this.
Don't take care. No, but it's interesting on knowledge base, how we based our or knowledge in this area which is where many different opinions and maybe changing hierarchies a little bit.
Yeah. Born, you want to go? You're in this situation you're in. You mentioned, the Canadian band in 2,036 was Barnum.
Yep, yeah, is that a sort of a free Yeah, like to prevent regulation. Yeah, it's social pressure.
No, I don't think they'd ever be regulated in this area unless the provincial government, agriculture in this area is a provincial responsibility.
So they might say that you have to follow certain rules and regulations about animal welfare, but up to this point they haven't.
And, I think what's happened here too is that, you know, chains like A and W and McDonald's said, you know, chains like A and W and McDonald's said probably 5 years ago in a couple of years time, I don't know, 20, say, 2,023, you must
conform to our animal welfare requirements. But now both the supermarket chains and all fast food stores or restaurants have also pushed that off.
Into the future because they a bit like the Australian example that's happened here where supermarkets can't get enough eggs now because they no longer use the cage thing and farmers are getting out and they're waiting until some sort of standard comes down.
Supermarkets in Canada, which are very, very powerful, realize that they can't get enough eggs.
If they insist on this behavior. So they've just. Basically said, well, let us know when you're ready.
Thanks, Nicola. Question from online. Suzanne wants to know Suzanne, can I read you?
I already question now. Is this string of auditing and labeling being seen in pork and dairy sectors as well.
Yeah. And again, in the dairy sector, I don't know about the pork sector, but I look at dairy and eggs and Canada and Dairy is also a supply managed commodity.
So again, it's farmer control. They're provincial organizations basically that run that industry too and they're all comprised of farmers they have boards and they they, undertake.
Any substantive measure that has to do with the farm is done in dairy and eggs by farmers by farmer organizations.
So they understand that there is a movement towards animal welfare, but again, it's much, much slower.
Then it might be, you know, there's not the imperative I think that there might be in Australia where people seem to be more worked up about this stuff.
Or New Zealand as well. Than in Canada. I have to say I think and Andre you might know this better than I do but it's something like 2.5% of Canada's GDP is agricultural you know and we have a GDP of about 1.7 trillion dollars so we have a Quite
we're a G 7 country we have a large economy and such a tiny section of it comes from agriculture.
That it's just. I think a lot of people see it as insignificant.
Just the last thing I'll say here is that where I live in southwestern Ontario we're about 60 kilometers or 100 kilometers or so west of Toronto.
Torontoians come out to drive around the countryside so they can see we have beautiful farms, you know, we have old order Mennonite people who have coarse and buggy crowd in my area.
The farms are beautiful. They're very, very well maintained. They're quite stunning.
Most of them, they all have the latest technology, robotic milkers, all that because they are very, very prosperous and Torontoians want to come out to go to farmers markets and also to look at the countryside.
But other than that, I don't really think they're interested in much that happens on the farm.
Okay, on that's on the phone. It's, let's join in thinking, Thanks.
Yeah. Oh. I think that Like, you don't try to see enough for yourself. I'm trying.
Yeah. I don't know. You know, Canada's number one responsibility at NATO, which is the source of money from the organization, of course.
Gusting Muland, Norway, we had a gasoline. Something with overseas brigade that's cheaper to defend Norway.
So, you know, just continue to. Yeah. Yeah. Alright.
Okay. Sorry about, We've got a lot more. As well.
Okay.
What's where it's like, Thank you for us. So
Once Bruce leaves the room I'm expecting the microphone to start working again. Alright. So.
Our next presenter.
And next presenter. Has.
And next presenter is already at the podium and it's already begun saying intelligent things but about half of Brent Locksdeen, a little bit more, now will do her formal presentation.
Okay, thank you very much and thanks for Well, I say sorry to occupy so much of your time here.
We had a good chunk of. Information or not knowledge of the Canadian situation I'm going to Norway.
Where? Also from from the same. Project good animal project looking into different aspects of and my welfare of course.
Welcome out working on animal welfare is of course is just such a thing as better and more welfare? Is that a kind of a interesting concept or And how can it be achieved or what prevents it? That's an issue.
So, Bruce already showed that and more for it's kind of a new site of conflict escalating in intensity and implication or at least at what we thought when we brought up the project or developed a project.
So we were seeing. Seeing, campaigns more media attention etc. Into farm animal from animal welfare we also observe emerging new forms of governance of animal welfare and as has been the case as I understood in New Zealand also as we saw from previous presentation it's a kind of a private interest of
the merchants here. And asking for my perspective being interested in the financial capitalism financial economy seeing this is this also new site of of the investment into the farming.
Industry. And my welfare, it's about values and Bruce pointed at different areas that needs to be.
Kind of fulfilled to achieve animal welfare in the regulation that we agree on internationally and this is also the case in Norway.
We are there today. Well, common understanding what is animal welfare. And, but we have a kind of knowledge through the project that it is not Maybe not easy to fulfill all aspects.
And there are some difficulties when it comes to this natural aspect of ambitions in a more offer and in the animal welfare regulations.
Weiss and Mo. Or why is better animal welfare? Sociologically interesting one might wonder.
I address this or I think this is interesting when it comes to legitimacy and social license to operate as we heard in the first presentation.
It's Is this kind of another aspect or another threat to the farming community or food production? Do you farmers value chains need to accommodate different values and standards?
Might be some certain risk and sustainability sustainability issues connected to bringing and more welfare up on the table or into the public discourse.
But also be an interesting governance. Question connected to animal welfare when market players like the grocery or retail businesses.
And animal welfare organizations become key players of the change. If the state remains passive. So it might be a like a food power and democracy issue.
Connected to the private actors ruling and welfare. Standard So. I said animal welfare is seemingly topic in the media and one of the ways of looking at why it's a topic is looking at the number of articles.
In the newspaper and we see it's 1,984 one article mentioning and more offer in 2,021 over 7,000 so we see some things happening here over time 2,010 or 9 8 I think in no way this is connected to for industry.
So farming. Kind of becoming a big topic in media and it's kind of developing into different areas of farming.
So ferre industry is seen as part of the farming. Farming, I say industry in Norway and it was, has been abolished.
By the government and all firm Thomas are . At the moment. So there are maybe a very few left.
However, when looking into the discourse in media, It's not a The actors, authorities, politicians, livestock production industry.
Are fronting this course legitimacy in this course saying that animal welfare is good enough and only minor measures are necessary.
There isn't there's a public desire to protect livestock production industry and the current system for livestock productions.
It's not a big we say need to change. Among key actors in the in the industry and on the public and policy.
While they are critical voices of course. And those are provided by animal welfare and animal rights organizations. These are quite different than mobile phone rights organizations.
It's not good enough. A major changes to the system will be required and those were also those prompting abolishing fur farming and Oh no, campaigning against pig farming.
So to the request previous question, it's what's on the plate now. It's a big industry.
Ordinary people are found to have little voice, little space in the public debate in media. And do say the same care.
So we carried out the survey and find that there's little little kind of, you say.
Small big opinions when it comes to oppositions towards the whole animal welfare issues. I know.
What colleagues Bogan Channel's and Toyson and project. Rights is that there's a remarkable stability in Norwegian's opinions on animal welfare issues also looking over quite some time.
We see that trust has become more important issue when it comes to how A tutor are fronted and there are also small differences among groups of people but the typical gender age dimension is still is is there and also increasing rural urban divide in Norway over time.
So urban people being more critical than we were.
We also see a kind of a difference in viewing. So opinions are formed by whole view nature, animal relations like thethropocentric versus ecocentric scale where those we might call ecosystems or want to abandon farming animals or and eating meat using farewell.
So it's a decree saying, oh, maybe this is small, a little bit increasing group of animal rights.
People in Norway as well as we actually met her first day in in Melbourne as well campaigning on the main street dose.
Kind of clear voices against keeping animals. Deportation scare? No, not really. There's a fragment that are fragmented opinions on livestock both are policy in our way.
Some dedicated parties like the Greens, left side parties. While Labour Party and the Farmers Party are most concerned about economic sustainability and ability to keep up with production in our way.
And think animal welfare might kind of be a challenge to sustainability. Hoties share responsibility. One left side, not to the surprise.
Think that this is a public issue to solve or or a state issue or the right side are on the political scale think it's more up to the industry and Thomas to deal with this issue.
Slightly or what we call a deep polarized basis, not polarizing. Actually, because It is, an opinion, I know, that Tom animal welfare is already quite good.
And especially compared to other countries which is frequently used in debates. Okay. Let me see.
Yeah, 5Â min. Thank you. So talking about good and better animal welfare, better animal welfare is not.
What people want to bring to the table might be. So what is the difference? Well, might use the scale.
Bad okay and good animal welfare and say that good is good enough. Or moved a scale from bad to good and something better that we see branded on maybe some of the eggs.
And and chicken products in Norway. And some some specialty products. Better. Farmers care about regulation and amoa firm we see that they are it's not very easy to see maybe on this but the 2, the yellow and the orange.
Slightly increasing over time this is support for stricter regulation in unmarked. So farmers see that a regulation animal buffer is positive.
It's kind of a way to protect the industry. And protect the domestic market. Second, we do see a split within the farming community and you don't have to pay too much attention to the small Small figure here.
I'll explain that. Divide between farmers that prioritise animal welfare aspects of health and And the basic feeling is as 2 of those bubbles that That the Fraser kind of, yeah, I didn't spend too much on that figure, but the, feeling aspects of animals and health aspects while Natural needs are kind of
becoming a difficult issue and that is kind of dividing farmers when we look at them quantitatively in server data.
And that we can see this as a divide between in industrial. Organic farming system. So we see the organic form is more of will will be more interested in the natural as natural life aspects.
Of animal welfare regulation than the others. Also, slight rural open dimension. Thomas. That grew up on the farm or in the rural area have more kind of industrial I was a industrial invitation of an mobile fare while those coming in to farming and starting to farm from other areas might be more interested in in that natural aspect of animal
water. Okay, so form animals natural needs are Seems to be challenging. In industrial production. Because it's and anthropogenic production.
It's about controlling Production is about keeping healthy animals, tame animals. Keeping animals safe.
So these yeah these are based on on focus group interviews with dairy and pig farmers. Former acquired knowledge should be fundamental for the design of the new requirements as the pharmacy.
Lose operation requirements and more auto grazing is challenging the current production regime. It's seen as difficult and expensive.
Regulation knowledge and attitudes. Are important to improve animal welfare? Labels are not. So from the farmers perspective, labels are not increasing or making animal welfare any better.
It's the way farmers deal with animals that are That is important and that comes true. Working the farm and adhering to the kind of public common regulation.
And natural is costly. As Bruce was talking about, Bleming, cached. Egg production is very expensive for the farmer also.
A loose bond dairy production will be extremely expensive and is on on the current. Regulation change in Norway.
Also, Tom and most or the natural needs aspect is constructing kind of energy. Enemy images within the sector.
Polarizing pig production or or free range production is seen as unsustainable because it's too much spacious.
Animals get diseases. Use more water before they can be slaughtered, etc. And Murat's groups are also seen as enemies, opponents to production is never going to be good enough.
Happy Farma is Gives, brings happy animals, happy animals will Keep the farmer happy. And according to pharmacies moving in the right direction, regulation is gradually becoming more strict.
And they don't want to go back on the changes as far as they concern. So what problems is to be solved?
Do I have 1Â min? 1Â min. The risks are connected to Pronting spare heads or lifting off from the bottom enough was.
There's a majority wants to lift from the bottom. But there's a paradox as well.
Solutions. To better and more offer is also creating stock growth because it's expensive to change production.
Which means you need maybe a bigger production, more rational production. This is kind of a paradox, include this.
What's at stake? Both social and animal contracts or license? What's Best should be for the animals and we have been talking about social license the farm.
Maybe we should also talk about the animal license. To farm. So it should be only about what's better for keeping production but keeping animals.
Who are responsible, farmers are responsible. First and foremost, organizations are seen as helpful and most disappointing at consultations to solve this.
And I have to leave the other ones out.
Thank you, Hilda. So questions from the floor?
And now The little microphone. Thank you very much. Hilda, can you tell us a bit more about the survey that, can you tell us a bit more about the survey that you conducted, how many farmers, the survey that you conducted, how many farmers, you know, what the sample was like and really, the survey that you conducted, how many farmers, you know, what the sample was like and really like a few more details on it.
Yeah The sample of farmers is around 1,500 and of them 780 were livestock producers, those responded.
To seen as a representative survey or evaluate it as a representative survey to Norwegian farmers. So it's part of.
And my home employer Rales is doing a survey to farmers every second year. And one of those years we added extra questions on animal welfare but those on regulation has been running for since 2,002 yeah so we see the changes Yeah.
My question. He'll do you sit you indicated at the start. That you had certain expectations as to what you were gonna find but you've ended up in a slightly different place.
So what what is it? Because you are coming to the end of the project now. What what is it 3 years?
4 years later, what is it that changed most in terms of your understanding of animal welfare through the Undertaken this project.
Oh, great question. Yeah, I think a few couple of months more on that but the kind of biggest surprise is that we that it's So little interest actually in the topic and we also plan for instance we did plan for a deliberate deliberation process on the topic.
This is part of responsible research and innovation. Nudge to researcher in involving the public in research questions and and we When we planned and wrote the project, we talked at animal welfare and ethics around animal welfare would be something that would be really interesting to bring into the deliberation process.
We did, we have carried out the process and it was quite fascinating and interesting but It didn't have kind of maybe the Let's say the temperature and conflicts that we expected.
It is nobody. Yeah, but it turned out from that the liberation was also kind of a surprise that while I think I'm a little bit, informed by by the public interest in in deliberation how animals should be at the core of what we do when talking about animal welfare and not our own kind of feelings or interest.
What was I going to say? Yeah, what was I going to say? That was 1 point, the other one I lost.
Yeah, good. Thanks. Let's do that. Okay, Suzanna, can you hear me?
Are you able to jump on and say your question?
Yep.
I think II can if you can hear me. Thank you. That was really interesting. And another piece of research that we were doing in a different project.
And another piece of research that we were doing in a different project, we were looking at the relationship between animal welfare and farmer well-being and we were looking at a disease that affects cows sheep.
Dear, it's called Facial EXMA and it's pretty nasty.
And just your slide happy, I think happy animals, happy farmers or something. You had a connection there.
I was just wondering might be hard with chickens, I don't know, but did you actually do any research?
Specifically on the relationship between farmers mental health and animal wellbeing because we saw a really really strong connection.
And our beef and sheep farmers.
This is what farmers are talking about, that it's really important for farmers to have what is say the opportunity to take care of their mental health and health issues in in connection to big good farmers and to be able to see how far, how to form animals are doing.
As an economic, we say, economic issue as well as social issues so they're talking about how important it is for the farmers to be in a sustainable good situation.
We when it comes to say the really bad and more effort scandals issue we decided not to look particular into those.
Where because we think that is a different. Issue but maybe it's not as different or as also to use question what did we not expect and why did we make those choices we decided not to have the scandals.
But they are definitely connected to the how how farmers can protect their own health. Yeah. Okay, time is up so please join me again and thank
Now, we're gonna see if K, are you out there? Hello
Hello, can you hear me?
I can hear you and how is your how is your internet you've been having rainstorms here and it's been knocking out your Wi-Fi.
I hope so. It's a heavy raining here. So my connection is not very stable, but I hope I can present my paper.
For 15Â min. So, can you see my power points right?
We can see it's not yet in full screen but you put it on
Oh, yes. Okay.
Okay.
So a very, very delighted to welcome Casey Ki, who is, to, RC.
40 through the collaboration with a long-term member of the network, Alessandra Banano and her work on neoliberalism in the Japanese food system and we're delighted to have you here to talk to us about animal welfare struggles in Japan.
Thank you so much. So, I'm Kai from, ATK University.
Hello everyone. So this, I, university. Hello, everyone. So this, I started my study on my work.
So this, I started my study on my work, the last year. So this, I started my study on my work, last year.
So this is my first, okay. For better connection of Internet, I stopped my video. Okay, this is the contents of my presentation.
Oh, no, sorry. It's working. Okay. Over the last decade and more work has become a growing international norm for sustainable agri-food systems.
However, the Japanese government does not impose a mandatory laboratory policy. Instead, it tries to the liberate international norms.
Moreover, 90% of consumers do not understand the concept of animal welfare as a result and desire for animal welfare practices continue in this country.
The outbreak of COVET. 19 as a war in Ukraine and the depreciation of a Japanese currency have suppressed its consumption of Livestock product and increase the cost of production raising serious questions about the conventional model.
We wonder whether this crisis will contribute to a shift toward good and more welfare and sustainability. Therefore my research questions are as follows.
Who embraces or resist the idea of animal welfare in Japan and Kwai. Can anymore welfare standardization transform the industrial livestock industry to a sustainable motor and favored the alternative model.
In addition to conducting registration levels and statistical analysis, I conducted a series of field surveys using semi-structured interviews on 9 daily farmers and as a stakeholders in Japan last year.
Okay, so livestock domestication dates back more than 10,000 years in Japan. Lives stock were originally considered draft animals as Buddhist dietary tradition strictly prohibited the consumption of mammal meat.
The westernization of a diet began during the major era in the late nineteenth century. And from the mid twentieth century, farm sizes began to increase and the mechanization Today is the average daily form has about 63 calls.
In 1973, the act on welfare and management of animal was enacted as a modern legislation but it mainly focused on pet animals.
For industrial animals, there were only the round 3 standards of 97. The management and the guidelines of which were revised following the establishment and the revisions of the In addition, the procurement requirements as a Tokyo Olympic Paralympics that contain and hardware vehicles function as external pressure to reforms a Japanese
livestock industry. The recent assigning of free trade agreements could be considered and as external pressure. However, as of today, there is still no mandatory laguration governing animal welfare practices in Japan.
For instance, Taylor Dalking on the Tethering cattle in bonds are not prohibited.
A former minister of agriculture, Mr. Yoshkawa, was arrested for accepting bribes for accepting bribes for, from, poetry in company.
He influenced the relaxation of the international and more welfare standardization in YE and was convicted for his actions last year.
However, Japanese citizens, becoming increasingly aware of the importance of animal welfare in recent years. For instance, in 2020.
When the Ministry of Agriculture bans pasturage of livestock for sanitary reasons.
They protested for forcing and they protested forcing a ministry to withdraw the ban. However, the position of the government is ambiguous.
It emphasizes the relevance of anMAR welfare only for better productivity and export opportunities. Explaining that this can be met with not improving from a equipment and therefore without sub-proving from equipment and therefore without subversion for it.
It also remains critical to of the Western centric view of and moral welfare and intends to establish Asian Japanese style and more welfare norms.
Zack of Mandatory Public Relations leave Loom for Frankly private certification to emerge.
However, These certifications are not prevalent. In the meantime, a Greek food businesses have begun surfingrations that are compatible with their interest.
It's such the business benchmark of farm animal welfare and corporate ethics report. By a Japanese citizens group.
Did these corporations conduct as inadequate?
Table one shows. The result of my field surveys. While small sized farm funds seeking alternatives.
Past through their calls. Laticized farms invest in free stores. Most small sites farms cannot afford free stores, so they continue to use all the stanchions.
As a result. Stunctions and posturing coexist in the same farm.
The cows are stunned during winters and milk times milking times from spring to 4. And to be sure, this form is animal welfare interface.
So these 2 pictures were, taken in the same, form. So the use of tensions is not prohibited by the Varanti, Varanti private and Marwa for your certification in Japan.
And, table 2 shows that, and more welfare certificates are not supported even among alternative with pasturing farmers.
For most of them, animal welfare is a new concept that originated abroad. But they refer to their practices as my pace, dairy or mountain dairy.
Instead of animal welfare.
Many post during farmers produce daily products such as cheese or ice cream to directory sell to consumers. However, in most cases the quantity of low milk dedicated for daily products is limited.
Forcing them to sell most of their raw milk to agri-food corporations via agricultural cooperatives at conventional prices.
It's more family farmers testify at 4. The best way to ensure an more welfare is by by posturing livestock.
It's good for farmers welfare as it shortens. Our working time, but daily corporations and consumers do not pay for it.
Our milk from pastured cows is mixed with conventional milk. The government does not support us in renovating our bonds.
We must continue to use tensions. Ledge, corporate farmers testify at forests. We just followed the advice from agribusiness consultants.
But we are struggling with increasing cost and stagnated from gate prices. More than 90% of daily forms are in deficit in this crisis.
In the given crisis, only small sized Pasturing farmers can't survive. We want to change our production model, but we cannot because of our debt.
Able 3 shows that, compare the 2 Rajsized forms. Small size farmers that That's true.
Their cows actually have a double, their income after debt repayment.
Moreover, their income rate is more than 4 times higher than that of large size funds.
However, as a stakeholders are I'm waiting to change their mindset. For instance, prefecture offices center we advice dairy farmers to consider their cows as part of a factory.
Discussed our model of production.
So in this study, I revealed that. Due to external pressures from OIA and the Olympic Codes as well as export market requirements the government promotes Minimar animal welfare within the industrial production model.
It also lobbies the OAE to deliverate its calls to protect its industry's interest.
Agri-food businesses emphasized their conformity with and more welfare standards to attract consumers and investors but a varied as inadequate.
Originally, Farms questions the industrial production model for and human welfare and have shifted to pasturing moder.
But receive only limited support from the government and. Agri-food businesses and also from Kashmir.
Conventional dairy farms also questions the industrial production model due to increasing production costs. But cannot switch to alternative motor as they are locked in by the current motor via subventions and financial debt.
Most consumers do not question the Karen murder also. So who are better informed? Regists. Existing production model and vote for and more welfare products.
Exports remain. However, supportive of the industrial production model.
While international animal welfare standardization or codification advances Japan remains relatively disconnected from this trend as there are no mandatory regulation, in animal welfare.
Varound 3 guidelines contain only minimal requirements, also implementations are not evaluated.
Currently, private certification exist, but very few forms are certified in these schemes. Okay, recognition of the importance of animal welfare among stakeholders of livestock industry and consumers remain quite a meeting.
So for the moment and more welfare standardization does not seem to be profoundly transformative. However, upon encountering, external pressures and recognizing the internal incentives.
Some stakeholders have become enlightened. Seeking alternative daily products made from pasture accounts via community supported agriculture.
Or online shops. So Japan has a long way to go before achieving good and more welfare, but I remain hopeful.
Thank you for your attention.
Thank you. Thank you so much for that very interesting presentation. I have several questions because I'm very interested in Japan.
So like, okay. Well, when you were conducting your research, were you We predominantly in Hokkaido or Kyushu?
And does the particular prefecture make a significant difference in how the practice of animal welfare happens in Japan.
Thank you Hugh for your question. Actually II didn't do my field working. Actually, I didn't, do my feed working, QUEUEs yet.
When I selected the, cases of daily forms. I looked for They reformed.
Respects pasturage And, it's, Because of the land condition, in Hokkaido.
There are several, most of, pasturing, daily forms, existing Hokkaido.
So, the number of, these cases, is dominant. But I also conducted my field of research in Aichi Prefecture where I live now.
And also in Wakayama and, Koi Prefecture in southwest part of Japan.
And, in this, prefectures like a Wakayama or, pasturing daily forms in these prefecture so they they're exceptional, in their regions.
Interesting. And If I think of, the dynamics of Japanese agriculture in recent years.
One thing that I think of. And you have written about is the arrival of the CPPPA trade agreement.
The Trans-pacific Partnership. Do you think the TPPA will change? In any of the dynamics you were talking about.
Yes, thank you for this question. I'm not sure, TPP itself, has a big impact on animal welfare codification or changing.
And my welfare practices in among the Japanese, daily forms. However, as though we
We expect to. Increasing. Import of dairy product from New Zealand.
Or as a country already. So, so farmers needs to differentiate. Their products from imported.
Mmm product or even domestic livestock, daily products, produced in industrial ways.
So. It may.
Given the pressure to push farmers to go to and more welfare respective way of production in coming years.
Thank you. So, Hilda, will be okay? Yes, there's 2, there's 2 more minutes.
Thank you so much, Kay, for great presentation. And so I'm thinking that so many similarities between Japan and Ottawa when it comes to Yeah, the country.
At least in the history plan and tried to protect its own agriculture. So learning about the new agreements that's only one maybe comparative issue and very interesting to compare more in depth these 2 countries.
But, but I'm, I'm a little bit curious about when you say there's no animal regulation.
Does it, is it actually no more regulation or is it kind of a, is there no kind of?
Minimum.
But say expectance for Tom. Suzanne's answer. The question makes sense.
Yeah, thank you. Here. Yes, I think, the Ministry of Agriculture in Japan is preparing for possible regulatory policy for and more welfare.
As in recent years, over last few years, the ministry organized says, round the tables, inviting, stakeholders in, livestock industry in Japan, the Consumers Organization.
And last year there was a call of public comments. From Japanese citizens. So, it possible, that, there will be a mandatory migration.
So and my referring coming years away in 10 years. I'm not sure. But it's in hot discussion here.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you so much. So thank you very much. Please join me in thanking Zikina Cindy for the B.
Thank you for a moment.
Okay, we, we have one more. It's a play. It's a push play.
And let's see, how on the pushplay goes towards, a little bit on the room for our last last presentation of the entire conference at NC.
40. Sure.
No, it's the tenantio is a prerecord. And the
What's the minutes run? Because I don't have one last 2 or 2Â min.
What's that? 19. That's 1342 I think.
My name is Wesley Terrajo and I'm joining you from the University of Lincoln in the UK.
And today my presentation is titled Ethical Meet as both cultural hegemony and sustainability leverage point.
And to begin my presentation, I will be providing a couple of different definitions, some overarching premises and some research questions that are guiding this ongoing research of mine.
And then I will talk about 2 different positions or arguments that are already being found within various literature on the on these topics.
One is ethical meat as a potential example of cultural hedgemoney drawn from the work of Gramshe.
And also looking at ethical meet as connected to sustainable agriculture and looking at it through the lens of systems thinking and leverage points drawn on the work of Denella Meadows.
To begin I think it's worth reviewing these 2 different opposing views on animals that we often see the animal welfare perspective on one side, which is really about finding more humane ways of keeping current activities.
Oh.
No.
Hello everyone, my name is Wesley Terrajo and I'm joining you in sustainability premises and some research questions that are guiding this ongoing research of mine.
And then I will talk about 2 different positions or arguments that are already being found within various literature on the on these
It's still at the same time. We tried popping just about 30Â s ahead and certificate.
Topics. One is ethical meet as a potential example of cultural hegemoney drawn from the work of Gramshe and also looking at ethical meters connected to sustainable agriculture and looking at it through the lens of systems thinking and leverage points drawn on the work of Denella Meadows.
To begin I think it's worth reviewing these 2 different opposing views on animals that we often see the animal welfare perspective on one side which is really about finding more humane ways of keeping current activities in place and is a good way to think of the current meat industry and the opposing view to this is the animal rights perspective, the animal rights groups that want to
eliminate any use of animals because often referring to the inherent value of animals as the reason to why. So we have these 2 different views, animal welfare and animal rights that are sort of in the background of this research.
And provide important definitions for us to move forward. And the main definition or main point to to make here is that ethical meat when I'm referring to ethical meat I'm talking about basically anything being sold.
With descriptions that referred to animal treatment. Humane certified or this meat is ethically farmed. Or RSPCA approved referring to the Royal Society for the protection of cruelty to animals.
Seen in the UK seen in Canada seen elsewhere. So this is what we mean when we're talking about ethical meat.
And so an overarching premise to this project is that we have ethical meat as contrast to or thought of in conjunction with ongoing standards that already exist.
Many countries have animal welfare regulations, codes of practice that are already designed to protect the welfare of animals.
That are destined to become food. So for example, the Australian animal welfare standards and guidelines or Canada's codes of practice for the care and handling of farm animals.
These are already existing standards. So to further define ethical meat, these products are meant to be an assurance that more than the minimum is being done to protect animal welfare.
So continuing on from this in terms of another overarching premise is that this idea here of ethical meat creates a potential point of research.
The premise being that in circumstances when we are talking about animals being raised and killed for meat. It is really important to engage with all of the things that enable us to talk about animal welfare standards.
The sciences, the policies, the practices, the discourse, social constructions, the human animal relations.
All of which enable us to draw lines to determine what treatment of animals is currently acceptable and what treatment is not acceptable.
And this allows us to talk about or develop more specific research questions about ethical need. If meat can be considered to be more ethical and in these certain circumstances these Humane certified these ethical meets if they're considered to be more ethical than this of course suggests a positive development in animal treatment.
And It can also be asked as a result. What degrees of improvement make a process ethical, right?
How many more degrees better or more ethical does it need to be to receive this particular label? Who determines who's products become designated as more ethical than the standard and whose do not.
So who is making these decisions? And Finally, why are these better practices, these more ethical practices?
Not the current regulatory standards? Why are they not the new minimum?
This can lead to some additional research questions and some additional ideas here at ethical meet. So basically it's being sold and advertised.
As a result of it being sold at different points of purchase within the meat industry both small and large retailers and the selling of ethical meat influences How meat is viewed, how it is understood through the different signs and labels and advertisements.
So it's useful for us to imagine the role of the meat industry and ask to what degree do retailers and sellers of ethical meat challenge dominant human animal relations in a push for positive changes.
What what positives are they contributing to in moving towards more ethical practices? And in contrast to what degree do these retailers and sellers reinforce the dominant narrative of of how things are currently practiced.
So the first part of this discussion is to look at the role of the state and industry in in this potential maintenance of the status quo.
So drawing from Grant Shi's work, authors like Bertuzzi and Ganya connect meat and ethical meat to cultural hegemony we can look at omnivorous diets and the overall animal welfare approach.
As hegemonic as the dominant and axiomatic taken for granted position in so far as these ideas and positions can be contrasted.
Against vegan diets. They occupy the dominant position when contrasted against vegan diets that are connected to animal rights-based ideas and thereby occupying subordinate or counter-hegemonic viewpoints.
And a really interesting application of Grammy's work here coming from these authors is looking at ethical meat as part of a passive revolution or a a revolution without revolution in in Gramsi's words.
Social arrangements of power are thereby not really disrupted in these instances because change is slow, changes gradual in ways that Those in power are able to overtake critical voices and thereby maintain the status quo.
And interestingly, authors like Paula Arkari explore the same issue from a different point of view.
So not drawing from Gracie but still getting at some important and similar ideas is this idea of industry co opt in terms like humane and sustainable.
So different calls for increased visibility of practices and processes within the meat industry have in some ways re-embedded certain levels of acceptability with regards to meat eating.
And in part, this is due to the industry co-opting terms like ethical to describe meat.
There have been some important criticisms in terms of Who might deserve this upgraded label of being more humane or ethical?
This is in large part due to the limited extent to which some certifiers implement improved animal welfare practices.
So organizations like Farm Forward and Animal Justice have launched critiques over certain standards and certain certification labels because of the marginal improvements for example marginal improvements on minimum space requirements that are seen in some of these certification labels.
So to capture all of this. Into one statement in terms of ethical meat as being viewed as cultural hegemony.
We can talk about how By drawing from Gracie, it might be useful to imagine at least some aspects of ethical meat, the ethical meat industry as part of a passive revolution.
That really does work to further embed normative axiomatic understandings of animals as food. With debate being centered on not whether or not to consume meat and not whether or not to change the system entirely but instead centered on where to draw the line in terms of animal welfare, what specific standards need to be.
Outlined. And in contrast to this idea of ethical meat as cultural hegemony, I want to talk about sustainable agriculture and ask our smaller-scale farms focused on sustainability outcomes, potential leverage points for more sustainable and more ethical meat.
So to begin I want to again provides some brief definitions now about sustainability science and other related concepts.
What I'm drawing from here is this transdisciplinary field that focuses on the interactions between social and environmental systems, which is done to understand and engage with different complex environmental problems like climate change, climate change adaptation, biodiversity laws, pollution and so forth.
And there are various different popular approaches within sustainability science. The such as systems thinking panarchy, complexity, and leverage points.
Systems thinking allows us to look at these complex problems as a combination of different interconnected elements. Systems thinking can help to map and analyze elements and flows of resources, flows of information and explore for example how one factor might interact with a range of other interconnected factors.
And leverage points are the places in which interventions can be made to implement changes in a given system.
Developed by Denella Meadows the general idea behind leverage points is that the more significant lasting changes.
Are created by pushing on these deep leverage points this deeper system properties such as the rules or the paradigms that that shape the overall system instead of focusing on more shallow properties such as the more mechanistic parameters that are often targeted by lawn policy like these specific animal welfare standards.
So instead of changes to specific standards, to make certain practices more ethical, we can imagine. Larger more systemic changes changes at deeper leverage points that might lead to more ethical farming overall.
This idea that sustainable agriculture can be understood as perhaps more ethical looking at smaller-scale farming systems that are adopting all sorts of different practices.
Interact with and acknowledge and work on the water systems, wildlife habitats, grassland habitats, pollinator habitats, at-risk species and are providing ways in which we can look at ethical farming in terms of open space and shaded space as well as contributions to climate change adaptation and all of these things together as
an overarching system. And looking at it as a possible way to imagine how to redefine what we mean by ethical need.
And so to summarize this overall point about ethical meat as a potential leverage point, Boring again from Danella Meadows and recent developments in sustainability science it may be useful to imagine Some aspects of sustainable farming and a sustainable farming industry potentially transforming how we think about farming and providing a potential counter discourse for
redefining
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Hello everyone.
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We were there, weren't we?
On the middle ground between these opposing sides and reconciling these these 2 different positions.
And that is the end of my presentation. Thank you very much for listening. This is a list of references for anyone that is interested in some of the citations throughout the presentation.
And here is my contact details. Thank you again. Bye.
When I'm Waiting.
She there So thank you very much. If Wesley's watching online, there's a couple of people online.
I'm not sure if it's one of you. Thank you for that excellent presentation. So.
Tilda, if you ever read an end? We've discovered all sorts of interesting things this afternoon, but there would say that there is a continuum of concern amongst consumers about animal welfare.
At the moment it seems to be Japanese consumers the least. Canadians disgraceful but next working our way up through Kiwis and Australians and then, Norwegians.
It's like no one seems as concerned as we thought that were all going to be. Yeah, which is really interesting.
All right, well, we are at 20 past 5, so thank you very much for sticking with us through this session and thanks to the organizers of the session and thanks to everyone who's contributed to a fantastic RC 40 meeting over the last 5 days.
See you all in Korea in 4 years time.