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And then and then I'll click on that when I read. Okay, welcome everybody. My name is Anthony Moran and I'm gonna be sharing this session.

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But I will begin with an acknowledgement of country which I'm sure you've all been hearing.

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These acknowledgements of country which is a really important thing in Australia. So on behalf of everyone gathered I pay my respect to the spirit of country here in Naam which is their indigenous name for Melbourne where we are meeting.

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I acknowledge the past and present cooler nation where Andre Warren and as the sovereign people here. The cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the Narm Aboriginal law, customs and custodianship responsibilities for country and the people that the country continues to sustain generation after generation into the future for all of us.

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I recognize the important contribution that First Nations thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all First Nations delegates in the room today if there are any for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline or online.

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So the the organizers of this this session CO 5 and RC 18 are Eric Woods and Robert They can't be, I think they're here online or I'm hoping they'll join us online.

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We've got 4 speakers today. At Renee, Senderville whose presentation will be recorded and I'll start that recording in a moment but he's here present so he'll be here for questions.

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So, Somino Dragos, And, Nissim Mella Thou, Karen.

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And, symmetry. Sorry if I pronounce those very poorly. So I'm really excited about these papers.

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Quite diverse sort of countries. We've also got distributed papers. And which I am sure, I think some of them are uploaded.

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I'm sure you can. Email the participants and get those from the program. I understand that there's that Eric and Robert are hoping to produce a series of papers out of this.

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So they may be getting in touch with you down the track. Okay, so I think I'll move straight to the first presentation which is by Rene and this is Mexico the Nationalist project of the Mexican government democracy or authoritarianism.

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There we go.

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And. How do I keep it?

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Where's the net? Do I just click on it? Mexico was born as independent country in 1,820.

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In the independence the Creoles handed from the mental role and took the indigenous past as their flag together with the building of an anti Spanish feeling arose and that was the base of the Orion of Mexico nationally.

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For 40 years Mexico had seats between conservatives and liberals. Look, Aberman had this to meet.

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For example, between 1822 and 18 in 59, the country had 26 presidents.

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This situation did not allow the formation of a national limit. In a DIFFERENT make Siko lost more than half of its territory to the USAID.

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The situation was used by the liberals to boost national sentiment. In the reform war the liberals gave the victory and proclaimed a liberal constitution with the National Project.

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In the team 59 Benito Paris became president and Mexico suffering military intervention by France Yeah, 1861.

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Quarry's had the authority as impressive and establish a politically strong government. Dead shows he carry out worth in the meantime to restore their Republic and strengthen the state.

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Besides, the confrontation against the Catholic Church was very important in the political strengthening of the national state.

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Separation between church and state, the civilization of the saints of the Kurdi, the extension of ecclesiastical corporations and etc.

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Quite this extended nation on banks and his government consolidated the natural identity. The society became equalized. And the government tried to attract framing investment to the better transportation agriculture industry communication infrastructure and spanning location for The next government with great political power was that of Portuguese.

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He was pressing for 30 years. He participated in the defense of Mexico against the French intervention. He restored the army, boost education and established primary schools.

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He built 2 railways that facilitated commercial exchange and the transfer of troops encouraged industry. And we call it true.

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Keep on screen dated in national government support by the military and Thasikas. Seems to cheap things throughout the country.

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Also, he's over the Mexican Revolution began. The social postulates of the Mexican Revolution where they were rights, public education, Iranian reform and property of the nation with the territory.

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The 1,917 constitution was born from the revolution which included its postulates and still Carrasa became President who convened the constituent Congress.

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Mongate the 1,917 constitution which had a deep popular and natural distribution. The Mexican state was strengthening Polinka and became the leader of the National and Popular Project.

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So subsequently, 2 soldiers of the Metropolitan came to the presidency, Alberto Brigon and and Pertarque disguise.

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He has got his was considered the mentioned chip of the revolution and established a political period called the Maximat.

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He was in the chief, in which he made all political decisions. He founded the National Revolutionary Party .

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In 1929 which brought together the country's Calvados seems like borrower and believe can organizations with the aim of having national political force with the ideals of the Mexican revolution requires centralizing all political decisions.

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1,900, and 34.

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Lesser Okanagan's became bracelet. 1,938, he created the Mexican Revolution Party.

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That's the best party that brought together a country working and peasants. The PRM was based on the principles of the Mexican Revolution.

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Favour of workers. Popular sector and the militaries. With a deep nationalist speech.

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This depends the gradient report. The nationalizes the oil industry You have a racial national development and promote the domestic market.

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Pollution and measurement and cultural production. And in the use of national resources for the benefit of Mexico. Doing his governing the natural listed vision further developed.

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1,946, the pyramid became the Corinne institutional revolutionary part.

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Maintain the bruvals of the Mexican Revolution. The National Eastern Bishop and rescued the figures of choirs and garments.

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1960, the electric king to see what's the humali side.

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Okay, 1982 Overlets maintain the postulates principles, national popular revolutionary ideology.

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Which once in the base with the Mexican model of the wealth for a state. But the struggle in 1,982 They have been done.

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These approaches and adopted vision of a very broad opening. Marketing international capital. For example in 1986 Vex could join the general agreement of tariffs and trade.

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In 1988, Carlos Shinas became pressing. And promote scenes in 1990.

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With the USC and Canada the creation of the trade agreement. In the Romanian free trade in West in 1,992 and began on January first of 1,994.

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The same day they are uprising of the Zapatist took place in Chuckles. In 1995, Mexico joined the World Trade Organization.

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The northern of hoping to the international market is imposed in Mexico and protectionism with the development of an internal were reduced to medium.

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In 2,000 and year the PRI lost the presidential election and the right wing national action party won the help the presidency Mexico from 2,000 to 2,012.

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In 2,006 and Brisbane Lopez however participated in the election. No.

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2,012 they pre won the presidency. That promotes various reforms. Including the energy reform, allowing the entry of private capital to time energy industry.

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Before performing matters of economic competition which guaranteed conditions of openness and constitution to international markets. Informing telecommunications and radio of broadcasting.

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Which showpin the free competition in television, radio, telephony and they target. 3 important reforms in the national economic development than to quit the exciting regulation we have removed.

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They were 40 open to private cupcakes. From 1,982 until 2,018 the PRI and PAA government.

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Have endowed the nation is a popular vision, knocking the economy to global markets. To have intravenant of the domestic and nation of my kingdom.

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This decision generated the break of the national development. Promote great development in the sectors of the economy linked to the external market.

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And not everything was robot development because this period social inequality group. The Genie Eates grew. Some Mexicans even entered the Forbes magazine at least.

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Of the richest peaceful in the world. Brokers however won the presidential election in 2,018.

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Locals with our main proposals were pressing the alternative nation project. Its main points were fight against inequality, increase on pollution, secondary self-efficiency.

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Make the state the promoter of the political economic and social development. And thereitially it's trained in pimmics and she have to see that.

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With use for any energy dependence as a matter of national security.

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Promote regional development against centuries.

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Or self-sufficiency. Guiding country towards full self-sufficiency. He's dreaming in expressions of nationwide.

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Identity. The vote makes it confused and remembered the fees toward coming. Mexican nationalism passing bases from the promoters who of independence.

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You gained the strain during the rapporteur and the government of Benito Paris was strengthening with the Mexican revolution.

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Different government rescued. Ideas but until the Mexican state was concerned they did it was established as a government nature.

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The consolidation of the Mexican state must express in the creation of the pinna and the political force of its leaders which made it possible to centralize political decisions.

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Nurganizing popular misses. Creating the period as a high display and expression of nationalism. The Pieroi Maintain of Sharia in their showings in its discourse.

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But in 1980,

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And surrender it. Of the interest of the global bank. This king. Economic development of political life, generated a lot of inequality and social injustice.

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Against this economic and political aspects, Labrador has developed his government defending Mexican national limbs which is not his creation which rescues, approaches that there are almost 200 years old.

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The pony sent in order to develop nationalist approaches again internal market must be suspended in the face of international market and confront those who oppose it because their economic interests are a.

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The syndrome is speak of his government has been to seek energies self sufficiency.

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Cities central living with industrial and economic development. To this end, Lopez O'rourke has made reforms whose objectives have been to recovered from foreign hands.

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Or at least verify the condition in which energy companies are found the country since the company's enjoy economic and even fiscal privileges.

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This reason the main basses of the naturalists of the hopes of brother government is in economic aspects I don't think it's happening in the economic, in the political world.

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You know this for a large government has been attacked for the political right which Seychelles of corruption at that of press freedom really sensation for Victorian history.

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The way in which looks rather communicates with the press and the population is for press conference called embrace what Robert M My present questions and answer and advertising on false news about the government are expose.

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Or the government has used the Army and the Navy to fight crime in addition to the fact that the army has been giving government works.

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The name is, for example, the customs control and their new airport. With some sectors of the population point to as militarization that many other sectors of love.

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All these sanctions have been considered up for time and they have no relation to the nature of his vision of the orbit.

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Right Wiener Nicks Franklene's social groups. I accused the government of being an authoritarian.

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But the social and political base of the government and the President considered him to be a Democrat. In conclusion, Mexican nation relief is not that from Italian and is the result of 200 years of national history.

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Democracy and authoritarianism. The feel of public debate and public opinion are not exactly in the political regime.

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Change. Mr. President. I think I decided to record because my English is not very good so I prefer to do that thing.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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That should just be there.

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So our next speaker is Selina Trakos and she can introduce her paper. I should have mentioned before that we've got we also have a discuss and at the end we went to Zang who speak for a few minutes after the

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Thank you.

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Thank you. Good morning everybody. Thank you for being here and thank you for those who are online as well and for the organizers of the session.

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And this work is part of my PhD dissertation. Before I begin, I would like to reflect on the fact that I am speaking today on Anneceded land on ARM, the home of the War and Jerry Warren people of the Cooler Nation who are the owners of this land.

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I would like to pay my respect to their elders past present and future and to all indigenous people and their elders who may be in the room.

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I would also like to express my gratitude for the contributions of Indigenous people to critical knowledge. And indeed some of the insights I will share here today have been enabled by critical scholarship by indigenous scholars who wrote about the settler nation, although I'm not speaking about a settler colonial context, I do think that

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the contributions of indigenous people to critical knowledge about the nation state is important to those of us who do not speak about settler colonialism as well.

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My PhD project is concerned with the way collective memory is used as a mechanism of racialization within the Romanian nation state.

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And as part of this project, this research, I think about the relationship between nationalism and racialisation and that's exactly the relationship I hope to present here today.

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I very much look forward to your comments and questions. This is work in progress so please feel free to to share your thoughts with me.

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Okay, overall I hope to briefly outline a reasoning for why we should think of racism as foundational to the development and enactment of nationalist projects based on the empirical case of Romanian nationalism.

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Primarily, I hope to show that the Romanian national identity developed as a racial formation from its very inception.

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I argue that this is an important lens for studying Romania nationalism in order to highlight how and why nationalism manifests as a dehumanizing racial project especially in times of crisis.

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Just for context, Remain is a country in the east of Europe with a history of socialist state dictatorship which was deeply energised by nationalism and therefore Romania was kept outside of the Soviet Union, although it had socialist dictatorship.

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The kingdom of Romania became a nation state in the late nineteenth century and was later unified with all its current territories in 1,918.

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That's a very simplified version of what actually happened but just for context. In 1,989, Romania started a transition towards market capitalism and liberal democracy and subsequently joined NATO and the European Union.

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Briefly put, these are the key takeaways I hope my presentation conveys today. So firstly, I want to show that Romanian nationalism cannot be disentangled from racism and processes of racialization.

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Secondly, that nationalist projects mobilised racialised logic to restrict human rights to national rights and ranking human beings in terms of desirability and humanity, conflating ethnic identity with entitlement to rights.

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And thirdly, I want to show that authoritarianism in the name of national interest has always been a possibility under Romanian nationalism by drawing on historical realities.

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Okay, Romania, Romanian Nationalism's foundation on racial grounds can be seen from its very inception in the 19 and twentieth century history when nationalism repeatedly became synonymous with Romanian superiority leading to violent politics not least in the form of interwar fascism.

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Until the early twentieth century, what we now describe as Romania was made up of 3 distinct regions which were under various degrees of imperial influence by the Austro-hungarian Ottoman and Romanov empires.

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That's remaining nationalism developed in the eighteenth century Transylvan, what is now in West Romania, which is where I'm from.

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As a project of gaining legitimacy and rights for ethnic Romanians within the context of the Austro-hungarian Empire is in the context of the Austro-hungarian Empire.

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Romanianness as ethnic identity was articulated as European in opposition to Jewish and Roma identities who were positioned as non European and therefore unworthy of recognition in the context of a European Empire.

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In other words, the project of Romanian nationalism sought to show the superiority of ethnic Romanians in order to gain rights in political recognition within an imperial frame.

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Thus whilst early Romanian nationalists fought for recognition and later self determination, they did so by positively racializing Romanians as superior and negatively racialising Roma and Jews.

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Later on in Valaki and Moldova, now south and east Romania, the Nationalist project gained increasingly racial meanings through forms of elite knowledge making.

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Romanian nationalism of the 1819 and early twentieth century was an elite project promoted in particular by nationalist philosopher historians and eugenics.

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Such knowledge makers sought to position the Romanian nation as originating in European antiquity, promoting discourses which emphasize Romanianness as an essential genetic trait that survived the test of time and Romanians as a clearly bounded ethnic group.

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Historians of Ideas, Victor Neumann and Marius Torda, for example, show how elite knowledge makers promoted the right racial understanding of the Romanian nation, defining the nation as the people in the form of genetic kin.

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This is done through 2 different discourses which position Romanianness in European antiquity. The first discourse links modern day Romanians to the Roman Empire in Latinity and thus Europeanness, positioning Romanians as superior to Slavic and other so-called non European groups.

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According to Barner Hesse, such delineations between Europeanness and non-Europeanness reflect racialization within the context of European colonialism.

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Thus a claim to Europeanness becomes a claim to whiteness. The second discourse through which Romanianness is presented as skin.

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Is the more fringe and obscure discourse of Dianisms. Stations were a Thrachian tribe, so an antique European tribe, which lived on the territories now identified as Romania and were conquered by the Roman Empire.

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Some nationalist discourses seek to identify modern day Romanians as descendants of As descendants of thetans and thus talkin us to the land on which the Romanian nation states lays claims at the expense of other ethnic groups.

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This claim is often a claim to other ethnic groups. This claim is often a claim to Romanian uniqueness, superiority, ethnic groups.

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This claim is often a claim to Romanian uniqueness, superiority and distinctiveness from other groups.

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So the link with. Antiquity. Considering these discourses and their bases in elite knowledge making, I propose that we should understand the Romanian national identity as a racial formation which is related to a distinctly racial project.

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Omi and Winant were right that racial formations are socio-historical processes to which categories such as ethnicity become racialized and inhabited as racialized.

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In a nutshell, my PhD argues that the formation of Romanianness as an ethnic and national identity category is racialized through a racial formation which positions Romanianness as biologic as a biological reality and during over time, superior to other identity categories which are negatively racialized, particularly Roma, Jews and

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Muslims. I proposed that such articulations of Romanian as part taking global white supremacy when positioned in relation to negatively racialized identities.

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The result of this racialization is a racial project by which a claim to Romanian as as defined earlier, beclaims a claim to ownership of an entitlement tool resources recognition and importantly territory.

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For example, as Bogdan Popa shows the claim to being native on the territory on which Romania is now positioned means positioning Roma, Muslim and Jewish Romanians as always migrants and precarious and at worst invaders.

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The historical meets around Romanianness become the foundational myths according to which the state governs. Considering all of this and drawing on Hannah Arendt and Achilles Mimb, I contend that nationalism both as ideology and as governance rationality defines human rights as national rights.

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Hannah Arendt critiqued the nation state for its conflation of political rights with exclusionary categories such as nationality.

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This conflation of ethnic identity and political belonging is evident in many states nationality policies. In the case of Romania, this conflation is epitomized in the government department from Romanians from everywhere.

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Which seeks to link ethnic Romanians or people with Romanian parents to their so-called motherland and specifically allocates state resources for those identified as ethnically Romanians who do not live within the borders of the nation state.

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In this logic we can see again the idea that the Romanian that to be Romanian is something essential, genetic and political in the sense of belonging to a particular nation-state.

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This closed and exclusionary vision of Romanianness has had deadly consequences. Indeed, Asila member's work draws our attention to the way states engineer death and deadly conditions in the name of national interest.

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Drawing on a Gambit's discussion of states of exception, he shows how the state of exception allows the nation state to show its real driving force, necropolitics, a politics of death and terror.

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I propose that nationalism is the justificatory logic of necropolitan. To make this claim I turned to history.

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The Romanian nation state was unified in its current form in 1,918. In this new form, the state looked to achieve Romanian majority, unity and homogeneity in spite of the ethnic diversity present in the different regions of the state.

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The nationalist discourse developed in the eighteenth and nineteenth century was taken up by eugenicists and others who argued for national purity, the racial character of Romanianness and the racial and political danger posed by ethnic minorities, notably Romain Jews to such vision of the Romanian nation state.

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These discourses were taken up by political actors such as the Iron Guard, the fascist party which came into power in the interwar period under the dictatorship of General Leon Antonesko.

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Eugeneists such as Sabine Manila were part of Antonescoo's core political apparatus to the point where the Institute of National Statistics proposed population exchange policies to achieve the goals of racial purity, ethnic homogeneity, and implemented through a truly national state.

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These population policies, thank you, proposed sending ethnic minorities to the nation states they were seen as belonging to, so outside of the Romanian state.

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And bringing ethnic Romanians to the so-called motherland. The ethnic minorities with no nation states to be sent to meaning Roman Jews were to be deported to extra territorial transnistria occupied by Romania at the time.

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In the context of territorial losses associated with the Second World War, Antonezku's regime implemented the state of exception which enabled a version of the population exchange policy to be enacted.

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So that Roman and Jewish communities were forcefully deported to Transnista and killed in genocidal fashion.

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Therefore, drawing on Ashleigh Member's notion of necropolitics, I argued that when faced with real or manufactured political crises, a state fueled by nationalism is quick to resort to authoritarianism in the name of the nation to protect the nation of its imagined enemies.

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This argument is increasingly relevant regarding Romania as the state faces a major population crisis. A quarter of Romanian citizens live abroad.

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Within the borders of Europe. The rise of populist far right alliance for the Union of Romanians is thus not surprising but concerning.

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What is alarming is the logic on which this party draws upon the union of Romanians outside the nation state with the motherland is exactly the concern over demographics which enabled genocidal state action under the Antonesco dictatorship in the 1,900 fortys.

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In this case, thinking historically allows us to see that behind desires of ethnic homogeneity, national spirit and national unity often lined the forms of violence of Western modernity and gendered not least genocide.

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This racialisation associated with nationalism and its reflection in the legal and political realms set the grounds for the justification of authoritarianism in the name of national interest.

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In doing this presentation, I did not want to ratify the misguided and orientalist distinction between Eastern ethnic nationalism and Western democratic so-called civic nationalism.

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Rather I propose that nationalism in itself is a serious threat and a more or less overt proponent of racialized understanding of supremacy in Romania and in some other European states, I argue.

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Indeed, countries such as Germany, France, Italy and the UK who might have otherwise been associated with civic nationalism are also faced with nationalist movements that mobilized racist Islamophobic and anti-migrant discourses.

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I does propose that we should think about nationalism as a dangerous ideology and governance rationality that is racialized in nature and holds the potential for exclusionary politics and authoritarianism in the context of declared crisis.

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Thank you.

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You We just quick.

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Next week.

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Hi everybody, my name is Nissan Manotakaran and I'm necessary professor at the Lausi University in Canada.

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So what I'm going to do today is to talk about Hindu nationalism, authoritarianism.

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And post-.

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So what I'm trying to argue is that You know, that is as you know.

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Well known studies research, which has emerged. The past 6 years on right wing populism across the world.

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It's a very well documented thing as of now. It is also well documented that these right wing movements are intrinsically connected with the idea of post-group, right?

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And what is post-truth one of the definitions.

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Says, erotion of simple factual truths. Truth that technically anyone could verify and the systematic use of blatant lies in the court.

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So basically, We are supposed to be in the new era or new conjuncture called post-growth in the last say 7 8 years this has been theorized.

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More prominently. It's not that there has been no untruths or lies or blatant lies or all kinds of, you know, falsehoods before the last 10 years.

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That is not the case. But what theorists are arguing is the fact that We have entered a new era in which The systematic use of Blatant Lies has acquired a very prominent character.

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And it's not just restricted to one place or locality or region. So this triad of populism, social media.

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And postcode. This art is quite. Dominant and quite cogent in terms of its impact.

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On making right wing. Nationalist moments, for example, especially. And what I and my co author who's not here today he's trying to do is, Look at How do people who are opposed to this respond to this triad of right wing.

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Populism, post growth and social media. So we are looking at what is the liberal or the secular in terms of people or moments who are opposed to religious right wing nationalism.

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And so on. So that is what we are trying to do. How do liberals support us counter this tryout?

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Right? And this we look at in the empirical context of India. Where as some of you might know, there is a strong right wing religious Majoritarian nationalism which has become prominent.

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Over the last few years, especially the last 10 years when a new right wing Nationalist Party has come.

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To power since 2,014. So this interface of post-truth and nationalism and social media has not particularly been studied to a great extent in the Indian context.

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Very prominent outside especially in Europe. So that's what we are trying to do to open up a new area of research.

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In this particular paper we are trying to look at the liberal response on social media. And we look at 2 prominent themes that the liberals, what we call as the liberals or those who are opposed to right wing nationalism and writing populism and so on.

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So what is fact checking, right? Because as I said, there's an explosion of fake news, blatant lying, propaganda and so on.

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As I said, which always existed in history but which is taken. And you to know a new or cogency which is quite remarkable in terms of its impacts.

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During the course of our research, you talk to respondents and you can see how much of you know, actual fake news or on roots are followed by people.

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Very sincerely, right? So this is not, so we have to distinguish between disinformation and misinformation in the sense that it's not just an accident.

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Propagation of falsehoods, but a systematic mission reuse by ruling parties. And their social media wings and so on and which have been you know taken on by the supporters and sympathizers and so on to a great extent.

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So the 2 themes which the response employs is one is fact-checking, like the fact-checking.

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The multiplicity of untruths or falsehoods that are perpetrated every day by the political party in power, machinery and their supporters and so on.

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And the second is obviously to argue, you know, we have a certain different set of values compared to right wing nationalism, religious majoritarian nationalism, which is more liberal and more secular and which is not based on a religious identity and so on.

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So these are the 2 main themes that we identified that would be other ones, but these are the 2 ones we focused on by choosing social media, especially Twitter.

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Activity of 5 prominent opposition all liberal critics.

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In the first one, the category of fact checking, as I said, this is the first theme that is prominent that, And this is not just in India in other places too that the openness assume the role of self-appointed role of democracy protectors right so they argue that it is our responsibility to Oh, propagate truths

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rather than falsehoods and so they factor. In these accounts that we've studied. Like they literally put out saying no, this is not.

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Right, factually this is not actually correct. What we are trying to show you is the real truth.

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The real facts. Right. So what they indulge in is a contestation over epistemology to make society which is capable of holding people to account and produce facts which are

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You know which are which can be verified and which are not like propagated as lies. So you can see a lot of amount of time being spent on this.

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By the opens, who we call as the liberal opponents. In doing this like fact checking right so because there's so much of misinformation or disinformation, a deliberate misinformation.

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The national, the so called nationalists. And those who are in power. They these accounts or the critics.

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Act as perpetual fact checking platforms, right? The ruling parties, the BJP, the Barathea Geneta Party.

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Has got a huge social media. Powerful social media cell. Which relentlessly puts on stuff which is you know as I said followed or ate to by the supporters and so on so the counter is by fact checking.

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And the variety of propaganda is you know spans almost all areas on nationalism on development, how India's flourishing under the new regime and how India is on the way to becoming a superpower and so on.

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So the liberal openness what they're trying to do is not just try to argue that this is not right what we are trying to do is not just try to argue that this is not right, what we are trying to do is.

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What we are trying to show is not many of these claims are wrong, factually. But also largely in the larger framework they were trying to uncover the post-truth apparatus, right, to show that there is a big machinery at work which is doing this.

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So ties between fake news and Hindu nationalism have been seen in surveys. For example, one of the large service showed how many of the fake news handles are associated with the supporters of right wing nationalism.

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In India. So the openness tried to expose the shadowy mechanics of what is known as the right wing populist technoculture, right?

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I mean in which Populism mingles with social media. Techno technologies. It's not that it's only the right wing which is part of this but it is most prominently seen in terms of how this is propagated.

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So the liberal openings are trying to be the truth moderator, the truth interpreter. And Truth Protector and Truth at Wicket, right?

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The second part as I mentioned, so first is factoring. The second is try to, the liberals are trying to show that they are a different set of values.

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What we call is the contradistinction of value. So we are not you know we are not nationalist in the kind of narrow majoritarian way that we are liberal, secular and so on.

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One of the misconceptions about post-truth is the argument that that it is emotional right it is emotions or facts and reason and so on, logic and so on.

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But that is not true actually if you want to sustain truth you need emotions as well. You need a strong commitment to propagate the idea of going after truth and so.

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So in this terrain that is to propagate a different set of values is the liberals are on a particularly better ground to counter this.

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So they portray themselves as a secular tolerant, progressive, peaceful. Versus Hindu rites, dangerous, intolerance.

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Fascism and so on, right? But the problem is that when we go into the analysis, this counter is not necessarily working and that is the dichotomy that we are trying to get.

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Fuchs's dialectical model of social media shows that social media is not just a product of society it also affects society right but we can't overeat the impact of social media but at the same time we have to understand that social media is impactful.

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Social media shifts landscapes. Because they confuse especially a medium like Twitter. Authoritarians attack traditional institutions of accurate fact dissemination and social media like Twitter plays a big role in this kind of a complete sewing of confusion because you're not able to verify what exactly is the truth because you are being bombarded

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with. Stuff, right? So we have parallel elsewhere put in in Russia, Doghan. Turkey, Orban, Hungary, Philippines, Trump in the U.S.A. and so on.

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All charismatic populace. Who are trying to exploit the dissatisfaction within the electorate to give a new kind of nationalism ripping extreme ideologies.

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So these potentialities have been hardness in India as well. So, liberals are right in trying to come to this in the social media, especially on Twitter.

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But in fact checking is necessary but what we are trying to argue is that a medium like Twitter for example is still very limited in India very few people access its more elitist.

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Be limited in that sense. And as studies elsewhere show that these media can become an an echo chamber, because you are talking amongst yourself.

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You know, talking to the opponents, you are just. Talking at them and this can become polarised and as all research is showing such kind of polarization emerging elsewhere.

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So lacking new ones or reductionism and fact-checking an even backfire that in the in the course of fact checking that these miss information or deliberate falsehoods can become more prominent.

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So the final point that we make is that, you know, facts themselves are limited, right? I mean, there are no facts that exist in web vacuum.

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Facts, are formed in an architecture of objectivity. That is, it is sustained by various institutions.

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So the traditional institutions like media and scholarship and so on have been attacked by the right wing.

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The resurgence and so you can't just resort to putting out facts there because Facts just don't exist by themselves.

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So a disempowered electorate, structural changes have happened. And these sentiments have been mobilized against, for example, minorities.

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Muslims, the largest minority in India. A politics of emotions is at work here as you can see.

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So fact-checking itself does not work. And as I said, the contradiction of values or different values might work but even that because it is propagated by an elite that is now lost his trust.

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It is not necessarily working. So the other values like the victim idea that the majority is being oppressed and the craving for a nationalism that is becoming a global power and so on.

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Is what is. The prominent. So to conclude, so it is a failed secularism of the past.

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Which is led to what is seen by the people as secularism as kind of a foreign ideology.

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What we need is a kind of a Hindu national identity. In this climate, we argue that facts are not enough, right?

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I mean, you can't just put out facts in the air. Expect to win over the people who are not necessarily listening to you.

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So facts cannot be separated from values. So what the liberals or the openings need is a very bigger, a much bigger counter narrative.

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Which is not just not based on facts but which are also surrounded or supported by a different moment, a cultural political moment of values which seek to propagate what they believe.

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Thank you.

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Necessary other people. And

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Sure.

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Oops.

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Oh, did I? Sorry.

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Second. Oh yeah, yeah. No, we're.

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It's I think it's loading. Oh no. Yep.

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Yeah, they said it would just take some time. Slide technical glitch. I'm Sminthy Rapadee and we're going to stay in India for my talk and explore another side of this large beast that is the Hindu nationalist movement.

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So this question that is before us is is nationalism democratic or authoritarian to answer this, is nationalism democratic or authoritarian to answer this I turn to is nationalism, democratic or authoritarian.

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To answer this, I turned to India. And to answer this, democratic or authoritarian? To answer this, I turn to India.

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As Nissimar Di mentioned, there is a Hindu. To answer this, I turned to India.

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As Nissim Mardi mentioned, there is a Hindu nationalist government that's been in power since 2,014 under the leadership of this man Narinder Modi and I think the thing that I'll add to the context that you already heard is that Modi's part of a very large movement

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that's seeking to transform India into a nation that's constituted and identified by its Hindu majority population.

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And this has been in the works long before the 2,014 election victory that brought Moby into power.

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And one of the other sort of prominent features of this movement is that in order to constitute the Hindu nation out of a demographic majority of Hindus, the various wings of the movement have a deployed violence against Indian Muslims.

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Who constitute the the largest religious minority group in India. So typically, the sort of authoritarian Hindu nationalism is carried forward.

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Which is carried forward by the ruling party symbolized. By this saffron lotus is contrasted to another nationalism and that is the nationalism that is associated with the Indian National Congress Party and this is a nationalism that's often or increasingly spoken about in the past tense.

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It's a nationalism that was once considered to be a force of democratization. It's oil gens lie in the struggle against a repressive colonial state and it's a nationalism that sort of establish the independent nation of India and constituted which was constituted with universal enfranchisement and the

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civic protection of religious minorities and Muslims were a very prominent part of that. Of that project.

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So instead of studying these 2 nationalism as contrasts, what I do in this paper is to try to trace the process by which the democratizing impulses of the twentieth century nationalism gives way to 20 first century authoritarian nationalism in a similar vein to Samina.

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And, the, what I want to focus on is this question of how minority and here I'm thinking about religious minority groups are included within the nation.

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And I'm going to argue that there's a liberal form of inclusion that's tethered to a membership to the Indian state, which guarantees political rights like the right to vote to Indian Muslims and also offers in legal protections that it was the dominant form of inclusion within this nationalism of the past and

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this is actually what gives way to what I'm calling despotic inclusion. And sometimes this happens by way of what I'm calling despotic exclusion and I'm going to elaborate that.

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In a second and In this process from democratic to authoritarian nationalism, a crucial moment is in the establishment of authoritarian nationalism.

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A crucial moment is in the establishment of Indian independence, which happens in 1,947 and I'm not sure actually whether I want to think about this as the turning point or the moment in which this process gets initiated.

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But essentially why this moment is important to me is because this is when nationalism gets fixed to enshrining the nation as a sort of end goal and other forms of nationalism that were also competing with the nationalism that sort of gets upheld by the Indian National Congress Party, namely a leftist nationalism, that falls apart with the

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establishment of the Indian nation. And so perhaps we can also think about this leftist nationalism in the view of internationalism as an alternative that Nasim sort of suggested.

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So I began thinking about this minority question through my research on the Hindu nationalism through my research on the Hindu nationalism through my research on the Hindu nationalism through my research on the Hindu nation through my research on the Hindu Nationalist Labor Union, the part-time Mazur

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Sun. Which, you know, this research is very much focused on the majority question. In this research, I look at why and how millions of Indian workers have joined.

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In this research, I look at why and how millions of Indian workers have joined this Hindu National Slavery Union as well and how millions of Indian workers have joined this Hindu National Slavery Union as well as why the Hindu nationalists have joined this Hindu National Slavery Union as well as why the Hindu nationalist movement has even bothered to organize workers into a labor union

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when it has even bothered to organize workers into a labor union when it's been able to amass popularity in other ways that are you know, let's draw less attention to growing class inequality and other politically explosive issues.

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And the minority question, you know, what in this research is sort of hard to get at directly because the union doesn't collect data on its membership according to religious affiliation.

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So I'm sort of getting at it in an indirect way and I'm pulling threads and seeing where they take me and also thinking about this as a historical process partly for this reason.

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So this research takes place in 2 Indian states, Gujarat and Kerala. And I want to talk about a set of findings that perplexed me from my field work in both of these states.

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And just to very briefly give you a bit of context in the comparative political scholarship on India, Gujarat and Kerala are really a study of contrasts.

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Kerala is characterized by a very competitive electoral arena. It is currently ruled by the Communist Party of India, but this is a competitive Communist Party unlike in other states in India.

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It's voted in and out of power. And it is a state that is known for very powerful labor movements and the sort of the labor movements that are organized that have been historically organized by the left and that have established a political consensus that is veered towards class politics.

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And this is one of the reasons why many scholars have argued that Kerala has been a site of very infrequent interreligious conflict because it's sort of been crowded out by the resonance of of class politics.

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In contrast, Gujarat is a single party ruled state. It was first ruled by the Congress party for the first decades of its formation after 1,960 to about the s and as baton was sort of passed to the BJP after that and it's been ruled by the BJP since the

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mid, s We draw it in the labor scholarship is known as a site of very weak labor movements and also has historically been a site of very weak labor movements and also has historically been a hotbed of very weak labor movements and also has historically been a hotbed of religious conflict.

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So one of the something that really puzzled me from my my field work in both of these sites is And despite all these contrasts, I found that in both states, within the labor movement, Hindu national slavery leaders We're in engaging in explicit forms of antagonization of Muslim workers and also I mean this includes violence there

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was an absence of violence that that that puzzled me in both Gujarat given that there has been a history of inter-religious violence and that has also often had a working class component.

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But in my field work, I didn't observe this. And in Kerala, in fact, there is violence that is occurring at the hands of the labor union but also the other organizations of the Hindu nationals movement.

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But this is being targeted towards communists whose rank and final members are largely Hindu. And in Gujarat, what I found was that the workers, predominantly Hindu workers of this labor union, were actually joining hands with Muslim workers across many divisions not just religious but also formal and informal divisions to struggle

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against their bosses who are predominantly Hindu. So, you know, this is sort of the puzzle that I'm starting with to get at this question of the inclusion of minorities and the democratic or authoritarian nature of nationalism.

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And so what I expected was that Hindu national labor leaders would despotically exclude Indian with some workers by deploying violence.

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And instead I observed what I'm calling 2 forms of despotic inclusion. The first in Kerala is that they The Hindu nationalist movement, so here I'm talking not just about the labor union, but so here I'm talking not just about the labor union but the other civil society organs but the other civil society organs of the Hindu

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nationalist movement, but the other civil society organs of the Hindu labor union but the other civil society organs of the Hindu nationalist movement are targeting Muslims outside of the labour movement.

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So one very prominent example of this is a campaign called Love Jihad which has recently become popularized in Indian cinema.

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And the other. Form of despotic inclusion is in Gujarat where labor leaders sort of echo this claim that you hear quite frequently among other members of the Hindu National movement that everybody's welcome.

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They just need to claim that they are were once Hindu or otherwise demonstrate a commitment to Hindu nationalism.

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So,

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Okay, so now I'm going to get to this form of liberal inclusion. So in Kerala, what I argue is that communists or sorry Muslims, Indian Muslims are already marginalized within the leftist project before the Hindu nationalists have entered the state and tried to build up their bases.

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And this is why I sort of see this absence of of violence towards Muslims. So instead, communists in Kerala, while they were trying to build power.

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I implanted themselves among the Ed of a Hindu cast, which is demographically significant in classes, the largest cast group in the state.

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And they did and they built support with this group and sort of incorporated them into this leftist project by taking over existing civil society institutions and building new ones as part of this leftist project.

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And this has been really insightfully documented by scholars like Manali Dasaya and Patrick Heller.

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In contrast, the political bonds between communists and the Indian Muslim community have been limited to coalitions with parties that are representing the Muslim constituency in Kerala.

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So the Indian Muslim League and Indian National League parties. And I see this as a more shallow form of inclusion, a form of liberal inclusion.

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And communist leaders in Kerala have admitted a less than satisfactory handling of the minority question and it's a less than satisfactory handling of the minority question and it's clear that this is a thorny issue for the minority question and it's clear that this is a thorny issue for communists in Kerala.

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So in 1,994 the famed communist leader and former chief minister EMS conceded looking back I feel one of our key failures has been in understanding issues connected with religious minorities in Kerala.

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And about 20 years later, the current Chief Minister of Kerala, also part of the Communist Party, in this is a document that I found that was published in one of the organs of the theoretical quarterlies of the Communist Party.

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And he, you know, admits that partly the reason why he's writing this piece, which is documenting the role of, I mean the sort of close links between communists historically in Kerala and Muslims is to respond to accusations that the left never intervenes to solve issues of the Muslim masses.

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How much time do I have?

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2 min. Okay, I'm gonna, I apologize. I'm going to skip through the Goudreth apart, but I would welcome questions.

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Basically, I'm making a very similar argument here that the incorporation of Indian Muslims before the Hindu nationalist movement came to power happens in this superficial way of including them within electoral alliances but not in this sort of deeper incorporation through civil society organs and, you know, involving Indian Muslims

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in class politics. And so on. And the only thing I think that I want to Say here, okay, well I'll actually do it as I conclude.

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So just to kind of trace you through this process that I'm I've outlined. There's this liberal inclusion of Muslims that happens with the establishment of the Indians nation in 1,947.

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And from here, we have in a Budra a state that's ruled by the Congress Party that in the inclusion a local inclusion of Muslims that happens through the vote bank of the Congress party.

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And this was the slight distinction that I wanted to draw between Gudroth and Carrolla, this kind of gives gives way or enables a form of despotic exclusion that we see in Gujarat and one of despotic exclusion that we see in Gujarat and one of the one event that I can point to is

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this anti-Muslim violence and a 2,002 program. So once you know there's this violence that's deployed by other organs of the Hindu nationalist movement, not the labor union in 2,002 the labor union comes into this field of civil society and is mostly organizing Hindu workers

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because Muslims have already been despotically excluded and so then there's this sort of enabling of a despotic form of inclusion where they can say, look, we include everybody, we're not engaging in any violence against Muslim workers.

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In Kerala, the process is, 1,947, the liberal inclusion of Muslims as part of the Indian nation and the Constitution.

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And then the inclusion, what it looks like at the state level is again through coalitions at the party level and then there's a form of despotic inclusion where Muslims become included or targeted through campaigns like Love Jihad and here I just wanted to leave it open because we're the process of Hindu

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mobilization in Kerala is still ongoing so yeah I'll end here thank you for your attention

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And.

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I don't know where that volunteer is. I think we'll just

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Then you just

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So, we have Wenzu Zhang is going to. Be the discussant and maybe speak for about 5 min or so and then we'll open it up to questions and discussion and I'll get the panelists to go.

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You can either come up now or and sit up there or Yeah, maybe come up now.

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Hello everyone. Thank you for coming to this session. Also thank you for all the 4 very fascinating presentations in the following discussions that I will I will do.

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I will reflect both full presentations and also the distributed papers. I included in this session. So the question of these sessions is nationalism democratic or also authoritarian.

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Nationalism is itself is a political ideology and a sentiment that emphasizes the interest and well-being of a particular nation or group of people.

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Better nationalism lens with democratic authoritarian tendencies can vary depending on how it is manifested and practiced.

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Some nations are equated with affiliation to a social and political constitution that is civic nationalism and multiculturalism.

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Well some others are equated with ratio or ethnic groups that is ethnic as is nationalism. So nationalism can be camp, nationalism can be compatible with both democratic and authoritarian systems as it primarily concerns the promotion and preservation of national identity and values.

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Yeah, democratic context. Nationalism may focus on self-determination, democratic governance and the protection of invited rice within the nation state.

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In such cases, nationalism can coexist with principles of public sovereignty, sovereignty, pluralism and respective human rights.

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In the distributed papers Mayerilo's, study I hope I pronounce the name bright and her case study But Marida, I don't know if it is he or she, but the case study on Cameroon discusses how Anglophone nationalism has challenged the poster colonial authoritarianism of

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Cameroon and achieved a democratist political life for his Anglophone citizens. However, nationalism can also take on authoritarian characteristics.

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In also retiring context to nationalism may be used to surprise decent curtoul in value freedoms and exclude marginalized minority groups.

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Also tiring nationalism tends to prioritize the interests and the dominance of the majority group over the rise and voice of others.

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Potentially leading to the erosion of democratic principles. All the full presentations today tend to regard nationalism as also tiring.

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Rennie's paper tells the story that Mexico returns to. It's also tiring nationalist governance after an unsuccessful neoliberal period.

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In this case, the temptation between democracy and authoritarian. Sorry terrorism exists now, not really in the political system, but in public discussions and debates.

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The idea that nationalism tends to be also tiring is also evident in seminars paper on Romania nationalism where nationalism is associated with racism and visualization and helps to justify also terrorism in the name of national interest.

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Simrit's paper shows how 2 different types of nationalism in India assist with the inclusion of it can also be exclusion of really religious minority Muslim group to different degrees.

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Well, Nisms, Nissim's paper investigate his the liberal approach to countering Hindu nationalism and its powerlessness to a certain extent.

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The remaining folk his studies in the distributed papers I only read the abstracts of these papers and I hope I got them correctly.

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Those papers by Julius Mathieu Shansuka and me show the nationalism can be both democratic and also retiring in a country.

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Julian's examines the phenomenon that Singapore has propagated as an ethnicolay or racially based on nationalism but at the same time claims that it serves as citizens regardless of rice, race, language and religion.

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Shansuka found 4 different types of nationalisms that simultaneously exist in Japan and shows their differences in terms of the corresponding people's also retiring or democratic attitudes and political activities.

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Mathias work on China investigates the cosmopolitan nationalism, nationalists list list and rigorous the contested definition of progressiveism and democracy.

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So China nationalism that focuses on Chinese tradition is perhaps as retiring and undemocratic from a Western perspective, but allowing a country to have a so-called undemocratic nationalism is that same at the same time a gesture of decolonization and as a means that leads to a different level of democracy

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that is to put the emphasis not on the invisible persons but on peoples allowing people to have a political culture or tradition that is different from another people.

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My paper on the United States River Heritage in Hubbing which also focuses on having a Chinese nationalism shows how the perceptions of local people which is more democratic for from the Western perspective and the perceptions of the Chinese government which is perhaps more austerity from the Western perspective can reinforce each other and lead to an

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auto-cantulate take evolution of Chinese nationalism. So my conclusion is what I really want to emphasize is it has essential to differentiate between nationalism as an ideology and as critical in implementation within a specific politics system.

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So the way nationalism is unbiased and excised by leaders, political parties and societies determines whether it aligns more with the democratic or authoritarian tendencies.

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Moreover, it is also worth considering what types of what level of democracy they're talking about when they ask the question is nationalism, democratic or osotary.

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Thank you.

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Okay, now what do to Just get I think we're just gonna have questions now so okay okay Yeah, OK.

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Well, thank you for that really great reflection on all the papers and it was really great reflection on all the papers and it was really excellent that you talked about some of the papers and it was really excellent that you talked about some of the distributed papers and some reflections that you talked about some of the distributed papers and some reflections upon that which gives us a lot

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of food for thought and thank you for your great papers really diverse and really interesting. So now open it up for any questions either like my mind in the chat or or you can speak online or in the audience.

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So then I think from the audience you might come up. Is there already a question? Yep, Is he, can he unmute himself?

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Are you asking me?

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What do I need? You need to unmute yourself. Yep. Yes?

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Thank you very much. Oh, all presentations were very, excellent. But I'm at the moment focusing on 3.

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Presentations, one on Romania and 2 on India.

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I mean,

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Not with standing is nothing but the highest paper.

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At least we find that in India. Religious nationalism. Or in for example in Romania. The racial nationalism or maybe in somewhere at A linguistic rationalism.

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Maybe good recipes for authoritarianism there's hardly any doubt about it. And there are so many cases.

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Now we can terrorize it also. But at the same time If we neglect The other kind of nationalism.

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As pointed out by, In India, which is a diverse multi-religious society. Where they don't, there doesn't exist only one nationalism.

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At least there exists. Other nationalism as well. Sometimes in a large and diverse society, many kind of subnationalism all the time you can find in India.

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But at the moment I'm talking about And the other side of nationalism which is antithetical to a nationalism with which is good to recipe for authoritarianism.

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For example, in India, The nationalism. Started about 200 years back. In India and that nationalism was very multi-religious diversity, I mean inclusive kind of early nationalism.

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Of course, it became weak. But at the same time, we find that that forces of that nationalism is also on rise not only not only politically, but also in terms of communication on social media.

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For example, in India on Twitter or any social media. You would find that there is. Entity thesis to to the propaganda by, religious nationalism.

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And that being counter. So the point is which I want to make anybody can respond. And the point is that you cannot understand the relationship between nationalism.

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And authoritarianism. On democracy without understanding But different kinds of nationalism. On play in a diverse society like India.

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So that is what I want to say. Anybody can reflect on. Thank you very much.

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Thanks forjesh, great comment. Now, who would like to respond?

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Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, maybe use the microphone.

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There are because India is a diverse country of multiple languages and Multiple religions, linguistic nationalism, I mean linguistic diversities.

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Is so lost as people would know. So there were always different kinds of nationalism. That were in war even within the larger framework of a you know one monolithic nationalism albeit conceptualized as diverse and multifarious and so on.

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So many linguistic sub-nationalisms flourish at some point some of the linguistic sub-nationalism wanted to.

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Be a nation by themselves and not be part of the larger. Just Indian nation state. So that is a fact.

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What we see with the emergence of Hindu right wing nationalism is also the subjugation of these linguistic nationalisms.

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Sub-nationalisms by a religious kind of identity. So that is something that we have to keep in mind that.

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This, authoritarian homogeneized nationalism seeks to you know eradicate all the pluralisms and conceive India in a monolithic way as Hindu as mainly dominated by the largest speaking the largest language being spoken in India which is Hindi.

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So to conceive that in in a narrow terms rather than in a very diverse plural manner in which the linguistic sub-nationalism can be accommodated.

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Britain the framework of a larger nation. National identity and so. India is officially 23 languages on on you know on paper like it's not just one official language and that is something that is forgotten when homogenized identities is being sought to be imposed upon.

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A wash population which is now the largest population in the world. So I agree with what Mr. Mestro is saying.

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I think, yeah, I would also agree and just to give you, I mean, an illustration, I think, and just to give you, I mean, an illustration, I think this process of subjugating local nationalism.

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I think this process of subjugating local nationalisms that the Hindu nationalist. I think this process of subjugating local nationalisms that the Hindu nationalist movement is doing local nationalisms that the Hindu nationalist movement is doing.

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I think it's important for understanding local nationalisms that the Hindu nationalist movement is doing.

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I think it's important for understanding the tensions and all of these tensions and all of these nationalism.

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So each of the dominant forms of nationalism in India had these tensions. So each of the dominant forms of nationalism in India had these tensions.

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And within the Hindu nationals movement, because of nationalism in India had these tensions and within the Hindu nationalism in India had these tensions and within the Hindu nationalism in India had these tensions and within the Hindu national movement just because I've been thinking about Kerala, Hindu nationalists there have definitely an issue with the dominance

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of Hindi language and all India convenings of the labor union for example and also other contradictions but I guess there's something about recognizing the contradiction and the way that these.

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Projects, you know, it continues, to move forward. And yeah, I think that's that's all I'll add to what Nissim said.

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Thank you. OK, next question. Hi, my name is Brunwyn Lee. I'm a PhD student at Binghamton University in the US.

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Just a question for the last speaker. I'm sorry I didn't get your name. Sorry.

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Yeah, I really liked the way you were talking about there. I found it very interesting the relationship of labor to nationalism.

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I found it very interesting the relationship of labor to nationalism, the relationship of labor to nationalism and so you mentioned I'm wondering if Yeah, I don't know these cases at all.

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So is there like division in the workforce itself between that's along religious lines and is that part of the difference between there being weak labour organisation and powerful labour organisation in the 2 states.

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I know you, I thought I'd just love to hear a bit more about that and also if it's related you mentioned that in Gujarat there were many of these alliances between precarious or across that kind of see how that's however the workforce is segregated how that plays into these different who I

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guess mobilizations yeah Thanks. I should be like questions. I think you could just answer that one.

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Thank you for your question. So in good dress, I mean, there's a case that I discuss of this solidarity between Hindu workers, there is a case that I discuss of this solidarity between Hindu workers who are unionized with this solidarity between Hindu workers who are unionized with the

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Hindu Nationals movement. In fact, a pool of contract laboratory between Hindu workers who are unionized with the Hindu workers who are unionized with the Hindu workers who are unionized with the Hindu workers who are unionized with the Hindu nationals movement with the Hindu nationals movement and they're in fact a pool of contract labor and historically this pool has been

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predominantly Hindu. And historically this pool has been predominantly Hindu of different cast groups and historically this pool has been predominantly Hindu of different cast groups but increasingly they're relying on Muslim labor and often laboratory Hindu of different cast groups but increasingly they're relying on Muslim labor and often labor that is coming from other states and so as

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the you know, fighting a class fight, a class struggle, but in that class struggle you see that they're joining hands with contract workers out of strategic workplace-based calculations that this is a pool of growing labor we can't win without them and they happen to be Muslims.

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So my field work is ethnographic and so I wanted to broach this topic of the violence of the past.

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And just each time I brought it up, it was like, I mean, come on, don't you see where we're on the picket line?

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I mean, this is, it just was not on the frame of the struggles there. It just was not on the frame of the struggles there.

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So that hopefully gives you a little bit more context. And in Kerala, it gives you a little bit more context.

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And in Kerala, the struggles there. So that hopefully gives you a little bit more context.

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And in Kerala, it's a too sighted study but in short I want and need to do more research on on Kerala but in short I want and need to do more research on on Kerala but because of this very, but in short I want and need to do more research on on Kerala but because of this very contentious environment of political

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violence. But because of this very contentious environment of political violence between the Hindu right and left, I stayed mostly contentious environment of political violence between the Hindu right and left.

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I stayed mostly within the Hindu laborious environment of political violence between the Hindu right and left.

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I stayed mostly within the Hindu labor union and most of its members are are Hindu. So I there is in the Kerala has a large population of like a migrant, I mean, export labor exporting to Gulf countries.

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And I know that a lot of that population is Muslim. But yeah, just to give you a little bit of context.

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Huh. So you have a question? Right.

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Hi, thanks everyone for a great panel. It was super interesting. My name is Callum. I am a PhD student at Melbourne Uni.

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And so I have a couple of questions. One for seminar. Which is related to the position of kind of Romania within Europe.

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And I was interested in hearing a little bit more about how I guess like I think of Romania and you might correct me, I think of Romania as being kind of on the edge of Europe right so it's kind of like not Western Europe which is kind of Europe per se but it's kind of on the edge of whiteness as

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well. So I was wondering how that kind of impacted the racialization of the nation. And that kind of goal of recognizing the whiteness of Romania.

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And I had another question that kind of stemmed from Smartie's talk but also might the other panelists might wish to comment on it as well.

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And you kind of said the Indian independence was kind of the moment in which nationalism kind of became fixed at the fixed as the kind of, I guess, the consensus on which politics takes place.

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So I was just interested to hear around the kind of contestation of Hindu nationalism.

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Whether there's a kind of reliance on the kind of older form of nationalism that you referred to as being the means of contesting Hindu nationalism.

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Or whether there's kind of other challenges that are coming about perhaps from indigenous conceptions of political communities or something like that which can present a challenge to Hindu nationalism from outside the kind of nationalist framework itself.

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Great questions.

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Yes, thanks Colin. I hope people online can hear. Yeah, maybe move it just a little bit closer to yourself.

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Okay. Do you think that's fine? That's good. Yeah, thanks, Colin.

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Have related to what Callum just said. I just wanted to make a point about the other question before.

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I think for me I often wonder in terms of whether nationalism is democratic or authoritarian. I'm very suspicious of the nation state as a structure.

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That's why I don't tend to see nationalism as a force for good. In itself.

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I guess that's a little bit maybe simplistic but that's the kind of tradition I come from.

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In terms of the question column race, you are right to point out that Romania is on the borders of Europe.

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At least the imaginary borders. Actually, Romania is situated within Central Europe geographically, but that's different conversation.

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But Romania is definitely the eastern borderland of the European Union, which is increasingly significant given the war in Ukraine.

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And that influences a lot the dynamics of whiteness in Europeanness within Romania and outside of Romania because those who identify themselves as remaining nationals or white Romanians I would say I'm one of them aspire to Europeanness and modernity as a claim as an aspiration to whiteness and privilege within the

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space of Europe and they do so by negatively positioning other ethnic groups within that space, it's a very diverse ethnic space in, negatively positioning other ethnic groups within that space, right?

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It's a very diverse ethnic space in that space. It's a very diverse ethnic space in East Central Europe due to imperial legacies of the Ottoman Empire, it's a very diverse ethnic space in in Central Europe due to imperial legacies of the Ottoman Empire or the Roman Empire and so on.

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I mean, Europe imagines itself as white and monocultural in many ways, but it is absolutely not.

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I mean, Europe is Muslim as well as Christian and has been for hundreds of years. But at the same time, I think it's important to mention that the positions of Romanians within the European Union is quite precarious.

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And especially for those who are of, migrant working classes, especially, and that's been very, very obvious in the covert pandemic and in Brexit.

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I mean, I live in the United Kingdom where Romanians who are there as workers are very precarious.

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And often a racialized as inherently criminal. Or inherently shady in terms of labor relations. But that is very classed the way Romanians are seen outside of the borders of the Romanian nation state within Romania, the claim to Romanianness is a claim to some form of superiority and often to European

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whiteness, especially among the upper middle classes. I wanted to say another thing. Oh yeah, I mean, I wanted to say that I've been profiled at the border here.

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I mean, I wanted to say that I've been profiled at the border here like when I came in I was really worried that I was going to get sent back to the UK because the remaining passport doesn't mean.

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Western European passport. I think that's important context that Europe is a very stratified place in itself.

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But the European Union makes it possible so that middle and upper classes are mobile and can claim whiteness.

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For people like me who go to elite institutions. I hope that makes sense. It's a very complex sort of issue but I think it's important to attend to racialization beyond sort of notions of phenotype within the European space.

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I'm so sorry, do you mind? I should have asked you earlier. I hate to make you come back to the mic, I should have asked you earlier.

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I hate to make you come back to the mic, but could you just you earlier, I hate to make you come back to the mic, but could you just?

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Yeah, restate your question. Yeah, sure. So you said in your talk that Indian independence was kind of this moment where the nationalism was fixed as the end goal.

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And so I assume that means you kind of have a consensus generally within society that we're operating within the framework of a nation state.

452
01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:31.000
And that's where politics is supposed to take place and anything outside of that is kind of a threat.

453
01:34:31.000 --> 01:34:46.000
And should be excluded from politics. So I was wondering to what extent the kind of contestation of Hindu nationalism takes place within the kind of contestation of Hindu nationalism takes place within the framework of the contestation of Hindu nationalism takes place within the framework of the nation and kind of relies on the older

454
01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:59.000
kind of nationalism that you referred to in order to kind of contest and offer an alternative or whether there are other kind of ideologies or movements which kind of are trying to actually push against the nation as such and kind of fighting from beyond the kind of boundaries of the nation.

455
01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:13.000
And yeah, if you'd like to talk about that in the season and from the Mexican case as well, where that bids in that would be awesome. OK, thank you.

456
01:35:13.000 --> 01:35:43.000
Thank you so much. So yeah, one of the contestations that I'm most excited about is this rank and file members that I'm most excited about is this rank and file questioning of that I'm most excited about is this rank and file questioning of, I didn't talk about the questioning of it but this class struggle with, well I didn't talk about the questioning of it but this class struggle frame of the Hindu national rank and file members

457
01:36:18.000 --> 01:36:19.000
in Gujarat that I mentioned. I see that as a form of contestation to Hindu nationalism because when they are going on strike they are going on strike against the wishes of their labour leaders who say you shouldn't go on strike because you are Hindu nationalists and you should be committed to the nation.

458
01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:49.000
And so in my conversations with workers when I ask them about that they are contesting all of these claims and this sort of imperative to sacrifice their narrow class interests for the interests of the nation. So they say we are part of the nation too.

459
01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:41.000
We

460
01:37:41.000 --> 01:38:05.000
Okay. I might jump in with a quick question as a chair if that's okay. So Rene, your, I think like the provocation of the different papers all together sort of and and also the discussance remarks I mean So we talk about the complexity of nationalism and and that there are all sorts of different

461
01:38:05.000 --> 01:38:14.000
forms and that it's not always racialising. But I think your argument was that it is always tending towards being a racial formation or racialising.

462
01:38:14.000 --> 01:38:23.000
But Rene, like your account of Mexican nationalism and government, in particular the kind of government nationalism, governmental nationalism.

463
01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:39.000
I'm not sure if he can hear, can you hear me? Oh, I'll try and make this a really simple question, which is like there wasn't really an argument within your account which is like there wasn't really an argument within your account of race or racialisation as being.

464
01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:59.000
Great significance in the Mexican context. Is that the argument that you're making or could there be arguments made about connections between race and nation in the Mexican context?

465
01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:13.000
Well, I think I understood. The the the context of the government in Mexico about the nationalism and Okay, well.

466
01:39:13.000 --> 01:39:32.000
Moreina is the name of the a governing party now a Marina was born from PRD, was born from P.

467
01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:57.000
So, is the same. The same from from a 1929 through So now the government Marina and Lopez Rord, the former president.

468
01:39:57.000 --> 01:40:13.000
He, he was a member of PRI. Pre-wessing government for 79 71 years.

469
01:40:13.000 --> 01:40:26.000
And the 20 th century and so the PR in the first party in 1,929 . R.

470
01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:54.000
M. The second part PR I third party . The 4 party and Marina now They also have the symbols and the ideology of the nationalists, of the Mexican nationalism from Benitores.

471
01:40:54.000 --> 01:41:18.000
The oil exportation in in 1,938 And the Mexican Revolution and against the foreign intervention in in in nineteenth century.

472
01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:34.000
And in the beginning of the 20 century. The by by not american er, er, troops. The Army.

473
01:41:34.000 --> 01:41:53.000
So the National League in Mexico is It's the same, almost the same for all these parties and not for their right-wing party PA.

474
01:41:53.000 --> 01:42:23.000
National Action Party, the right-wing party in Mexico. So what is the difference between this government from the PRI government the the last one and from PAN government So the the vision of a economical development You see, I tried to to expose it in my presentation because the economical situation is very important for the

475
01:42:34.000 --> 01:43:04.000
nationalist ideology. For example, the oil exportation is very important but the The last PRI government a from 2,012 through 2,019 led the foreign capital to invest in the energy.

476
01:43:12.000 --> 01:43:42.000
Industries for a national industries for example Mexican oil the pay mix. And electricity industry. So this government, the Luxor R government stop change again the regulation and forbid the the to the foreign capitals to invest in in the national production of electricity and oil.

477
01:43:50.000 --> 01:44:11.000
So this is I think it's the most important. A context and difference between this government from the last 2 governments.

478
01:44:11.000 --> 01:44:21.000
That's that's why the right wing party says that it's very authoritarian party says that is very authoritarian this government is very authoritarian.

479
01:44:21.000 --> 01:44:45.000
This government is very authoritarian. This government is very authoritarian because this government is very authoritarian because this government stops the The liberty to the foreign capital liberty to to have a money in the and and good business.

480
01:44:45.000 --> 01:45:02.000
In in in oil industry and electricity industry. So I think it's the most very important difference between the last warrants and and now.

481
01:45:02.000 --> 01:45:20.000
So of course the right wing Good party. Says every day that this is an authoritarian government. But many people in Mexico think that it is not.

482
01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:24.000
Yeah. It's not yes in economical it's very strong position of the Mexican state.

483
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:39.000
So it's for Mexican, the National Resources for Mexican people. I hope I can answer your question.

484
01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:47.000
Thank you. Any other questions from the audience or online or?

485
01:45:47.000 --> 01:46:01.000
Okay. Well, I think that we can finish and people might want to try and get back that long walk to the convention if it's possible if you can find your way back there.

486
01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:14.000
I'd like to thank again the organizers, Eric Woods and Robert Shirts who may not have I'm not sure if they were able to be here but Anyway, thank you to them for organising the session.

487
01:46:14.000 --> 01:46:33.000
And I'd also just like to thank again the speakers. So Rene, Samina, Nissim and Smitty, Smitty, sorry, for some great presentations and also to Wingjou for her great comments and reflecting upon the other papers.

488
01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:40.000
I think it's been a really interesting session. Really diverse, great papers. It won't spoke to time.

489
01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:48.000
Fantastic. So thank you all and thank you for the audience for coming along and hope you enjoy the rest of the conference.