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OK, I think we can start. Good morning. Everybody on site and hello there online in Zoom. I warmly welcome you all here in our session in the Saxonar perspectives on love.

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My name is Mina Kristin Naru, Rochon and Engler and I'm an organizer of this session together with my colleague Ina Shaun.

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Who is unfortunately not unfortunately not able to participate in this Congress. I will share this assassin and we have 4 papers.

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2 of them are on site and 2 online. In Zoom. And before we start I would like to honor this land of Naom and where we are and I'm happy to have this Congress and our session here today.

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Just a second.

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Oh, it was too fast.

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On behalf of everyone, I pay respect to the spirit of country here and none where we are meeting. I acknowledge the past and present cooling nation, BORRONTHERERY WOO, as the sovereign people here at the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote an arm of our original law, customs and

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custodians who maintain and promote an arm of Aboriginal law, customs and custodians of Aboriginal law, customs and custodians shaped responsibilities for countries and the people that country continues to sustain generation after generation into the future for all of us.

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I recognise the important contribution that First Nations thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all First Nations delegates in the room today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline.

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So. I would like to now turn to our speakers. All speakers have 15 min time for the for a presentation and after that we will have 1 one or 2 questions and answers and I hope we still have.

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15 min time at the end for a general discussion. Our first speaker is Raheel Orchas.

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From the University of Amsterdam, Netherlands, and she will speak about enduring midlife, mid life love.

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And I just a moment I share the Sure. I think Rahi, you can share that screen.

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Yes.

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So it starts.

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Huh.

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So can you see my slide now? Okay.

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Yes, we can see. Yes, now you have the presentation models. Yes, that's good.

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Just wonder. Oh please.

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Yes, great. Thank you. Okay. Yes, thank you very much, Mina and Eno for organizing, this panel.

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I'm very happy and grateful. To be part of this panel. And, also maybe I should note, say something about this that is middle of the night here in Amsterdam and so I hope you'll forgive my lack of sharpness but I'm doing my best.

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So the title of my presentation is Enduring Midlife Love, temporal, qualities and possibilities.

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And, in this paper presentation, I want to make a case for why and during mid life long.

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Is worth considering from a critical the colonial queer family's perspective And in the first part I will talk about midlife love.

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And then later about midlife and try to bring the 2 together.

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To be.

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Simultaneously, there is an underlying question that I, hope we can discuss together, which is how to account for desires and practices of intimacy.

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That are seemingly normative from a the colonial queer family's perspective without dismissing those desires and practices as false consciousness.

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And, this question is informed, partly by my background. In anthropology and atographic research.

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That prioritizes people's daily experiences and practices. And also by my background in the colonial queer family studies that centers marginal queer families studies that centers marginality so the opposite of the normative studies that centers marginality.

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So the opposite of the normative or even anti-normativity as a site of resistance with revolutionary potential.

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So it is this in this field, marginalities investigated as a way to rethink naturalized heteronormative and couple centered understandings of love, family and relationships.

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And here I would also position my most recent research project that I just finalized on, consensual non-monogamous relationships, including polyamory in the Netherlands.

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And having, worked on, non-normative constructions of love and intimacy for 5 years now.

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I started to wonder how to deal with intimate and sexual practices and desires that do not seem nor intend to be radical or revolutionary such as enduring love.

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And in fact, as several quantitative and qualitative studies in the Netherlands and elsewhere have shown most people though certainly not all.

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A prefer and during mid life intimate relationships that are characterized by stability and safety. Rather than pursuing revolutionary and radical love relationships.

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But this, is a rather complicated, argument to make as scholars of Di colonial, queer family studies of love and intimacy are in the business of scrutinizing widespread practices and desires as shaped by culture.

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And given this mission, the mere argument of many people want, and during love relationships obviously falls short.

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Because people wanting to stay will save relationships is not a problem for this. Scholarship, but it's rather a problem that it wants to tackle.

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Nevertheless, in my view, this discrepancy between, the ideological, at times even antinormative approach underlying this.

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Critical scholarship on the one hand and the yeah, the people's everyday realities, on the other remains an important, issue to take seriously.

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And I want to do this by making the case that, and during love could be interesting to look at.

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And I have a different reasons for that. So one is, that, I think the ordinary or the normative does not completely do away with the revolutionary.

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And here I assume that everyday life is full of contradictions in terms of what we believe, what we desire, what we do.

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Regardless of how aware we are of those contradictions. And during love, the focus of my paper is a site for I think both living and surviving norms.

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Yeah.

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When we zoom in what we see is that people don't just simply live according to societal norms but they contradict them all the time.

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And they try to survive societal norms because they can be problematic, limiting. And strategies that are involved in that survival may may contain small transgressions that often go unnoticed.

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So this is one reason why I think enduring love cannot be easily opposed to the revolutionary.

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Secondly, since and during love is attached to patriarchal colonial and capitalist ideals of gender, sexuality, family, civilization.

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As many scholars have extensively and convincingly argued. The importance of a critical lens remains intact and by this I mean that the analysis of enduring love does not mean entering a less political field.

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Rather fundamental tensions and contradictions between how and during love allows people to live. And how that living simultaneously helps to sustain and reproduce norms can be and should be recognized and scrutinized.

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So studying and during love necessitates an understanding of its implication. In patriarchal colonial and capital systems requiring the researcher to look for those traces in everyday life.

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And, thirdly, and importantly, and during love while normative under one hand is also at odds with contemporary late capitalist imperatives demands of constant change and improvement.

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Inatives that, and various sociologists have argued. Have worked to weaken the will to engage with others in intimate and committed ways And the sociological argument here is that in late modernity, which is a reference to the post, second world war period in Western West European and North American countries that in

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this context relationships have become more fluid. As a consequence of the decreasing authority or the influence of collective forces such as religion, community, class.

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And the idea is that the individual is supposedly free to make the best partner choice based on principles of compatibility and emotional connection.

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Sociologist Ava Lose for instance has extensively written about what she calls called intimacies as the result of rational and extensive individual deliberation in relationships and intimate relationships.

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And coming back to my focus on, enduring love, this raises the question of what it means and what it takes for individuals to maintain enduring love.

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In this context of calls intimacy. I do want to briefly, mention a point of critique on this concept of, Cold, late modern called intimacy because it does assume universality.

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Taking little to no account of difference different kind of differences for instance and particularly race and religiosity.

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So the question is who exactly does this concern of late modern cold intimacy apply to, are called intimacy is mainly a whites middle class secular issue.

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Presented as universal or does it actually resonate resonate with the lived realities of other groups of people as well.

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But having this, important, difference sensitive Critique in mind, I think a focus on enduring love could be, could provide us with new insights.

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And it can do this in at least 3 ways. We could, take difference, into account by providing a space for an analysis of life and lives that are slow.

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On hold or stuck as opposed to fast and exciting. So while speed, has been a main focus of critical late modern studies, studying other temporal ways of relating to the world.

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Such as endurance are generally lacking.

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For the more focusing on enduring love with, would, will also offer an analytic window into mechanisms of power that make its maintenance possible.

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Maintaining enduring love, I assume, does not only involve people, within the relationship.

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But all depends also on the work of others such as grandparents, friends, childcare providers, neighbors, and more.

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And so for this reason, I think studying and during love, holistically. Could deepen our understanding of how dependency and vulnerability are managed.

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In ways that are often hidden. And this is crucial from a the colonial queer family's perspective as keeping the labor of maintenance hidden is known as a structural tool.

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How, patriarchy to both patriarchy and capitalism.

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And, lastly and relatedly, I think and during love. With all its contradictions is worth a scholarly consideration for from another point of view, namely, that Non-normative practices, for instance, non-monogamous relationships.

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Talk about. Those kind of non-normative practices that are supposed to be revolutionary.

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And radical can be easily hijacked by new liberal values of self-improvement and constant change.

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In fact, new liberalism, champions non-normativity and even anti-normativity normativity for the sake of innovation, consumerism and entertainment.

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And this I think adds to the political potential of enduring love. As it fosters a completely different temporality than the one celebrated by new liberalism.

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And in short while, neoliberalism promotes change and disposability. And during love might have an interesting alternative to offer as a practice of maintaining continuing and repairing.

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And this brings me to temporality. As the main analytical lens in this paper. And both feminine scholars and scholars in critical time studies have extensively argued for the importance of temporality in order to understand how power operates especially in late capitalist societies.

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And they argue that time, time of the clock as a linear commodified time that can be bought, that can be invested or that can be wasted.

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Dominates other temporalities. Notably, temporalities of meaningful relationships and care. Intimacies.

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I, sorry, cure interactions and these are, traditionally considered as feminine tasks tasks that are quality based and cannot be easily I cannot, yeah, are not easy to quantify.

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So the main argument here is that, different temporalities clash. While linear time. Dominates all aspects of life.

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And, one particular phase, when for many people, the clash between different, temporalities, might become tangible is midlife.

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Roughly between, 40 and 60 or 65. Which is another focus of of this paper.

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And midlife is known, as a sphere of, as a phase of increased awareness of the passing of time or death awareness.

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And not because people are statistically close to dying. But because bodily changes, because of bodily changes.

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And changes his social role, for instance, children, growing up and leaving the house or parents becoming, older.

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They are confronted with mortality and decay. Especially in this phase of life. And although this awareness appears to be widespread, it is to be expected that midlife means different things to different individuals depending on their embodied and social position.

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For instance, women become aware of aging much earlier than men because of the more extensive and also explicit societal judgment of their changing bodies throughout their whole life.

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And also bodies of black people and people of color are differently implicated in standards of beauty. Than white bodies.

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Also socioeconomic positioning seems relevant. In fact, the very. Concept of midlife emerged.

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As a popularized social category in late in the late seventies in the US as a tightly connected concept to class, because it is, it was and it is still, meant to.

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To market a phase of life that individuals are supposed to have they have made a life made a career, have a house, a car, you short have a good life.

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And so studying midlife requires an intersectional, perspective.

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And using this, different sensitive, perspective, I'm interested to know. What it means and what it takes for people to maintain enduring love at midlife amidst social pressures such as high expectations of parenthood.

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And career goals. While going through mid life transformations that might induce fundamental questions about the good life.

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But at a mean question such as am I happy? Are we happy? Is this all there is? Have I made the right choices?

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Now though enduring love is clearly controversial from a feminist point of view and separation or divorce are by no means inherently bad.

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That's absolutely not what I would, suggest. Understanding how love is maintained might provide us with insights into what it means to attach or to engage.

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By desire, by habits, by, survival. While living in a time when many things and people are made disposable due to the ideologies of constant change and improvement.

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And so to conclude, And without romanticizing and during midlife love, I wonder, what we could learn from its practitioners in terms of temporal qualities.

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So how do people experience enduring midlife love from a temporal perspective? As well as temporal possibilities.

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How do people overcome societal demands of constant change and improvement.

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Yeah.

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I think I'll finish here. Thank you.

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So thank you, Kahir. Thank you very much for this wonderful presentation. Could you stop sharing or do we need to stop sharing or do we need to stop sharing or do we need the questions in room.

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Other questions? Yeah, yes, please. Can you see this? Hi.

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Thank you for the presentation. And I have a question which is actually a clarification. You talked at the beginning of the presentation about non-normative, I think practices.

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And my question is, Could you clarify what are you referring? Which practices or type of relationships you refer to?

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I think I have a follow-up question but I just first want to clarify.

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Yes, thank you for the question. If we take the.

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Or if you assume and that is from my position working in the field of feminist the colonial queer studies monogamy for instance as a norm in society.

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Those practices that differ, for instance in the Netherlands. I would consider non-normative and this could be for instance polyamory which is currently becoming very popular in Netherlands but also for instance Non-monogamous, marriages among Muslims here in the Netherlands.

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Both are considered as non-negative but then in a completely different way. So one is considered progressive and the other as being on women unfriendly but nevertheless I would consider them as non-normative and in fact I my previous research was on those kind of practices and trying to bring them in dialogue with

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one another.

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Yes, in place. And my train of thought about better was could we still refer to those practices or type of relationships as a type of relationships as non-normative, could we still refer to those practices or type of relationships as non-normative within in certain Western societies?

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Could we still refer to those practices or type of relationships as non-normative within in certain Western societies?

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Because, I mean, using like specific etymology of normative, they could be considered normative as well.

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Within certain social spheres. It's just to, you know, to think about the use of that specific term.

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Yes, I completely agree and that is what I meant also when I said that. What seems to be in our normative or is or is sort of in a popular discourse.

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Accepted as being more normative and progressive. If we look at it more closely we might see that it's very much reproducing certain norms in case of polyamory, new liberal ideas and ideals of, self improvement are very dominant in the community polyamorous communities that I, did

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research. So I agree.

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Okay, there are a couple of questions in the room. Could you wait until the end? That yet that would be lovely because you wait until the end that yet that would be lovely because we can continue with the 10 we have at the end that would be lovely because we can continue with the 10 we have at the end time to discuss.

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Thank you. Thank you so much.

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Moves. So we come to our second speaker who is Kyling Fee from the University of Birmingham, a speaker who is Kyling Field from the University of Birmingham, UK.

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And she has a joint paper together with Amarus Meinhoff from Villefort University, Germany about the negotiations of Chineseness and discourses on love in contemporary China.

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So, so just.

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Okay. I have to.

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How come we escape this one? No, it can be, we need to go to the page.

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In my presentation.

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Because it comes always this one.

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Oh wait. Yeah, they should. We do not know.

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It's not moving. Yeah. Conference local. Okay, that's helps.

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Stop sharing. You mean here? Okay. Oh, thank you so much.

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You mean here? Okay. Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, this is, okay, that's wonderful. Okay.

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Yeah.

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What's happening? Take the voice of previous presentation. It's not open. So you close this one.

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Yeah. I think, okay, no, I think then we can try again here. Oh, no, it's.

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What has happened? So if you know, please help me if we know how to do. Where's our support person?

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He wanted to come but he has vanished. We just make it something. Just come back.

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What happened? If we, I don't know, I don't want to play. Yeah, I'm also for it.

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Nothing happens. There are 2 windows here, just one. Or is there another? Okay, this is just another.

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Somehow. Look, yes, we need some technical help. This is strange. It's not working at all.

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What do you think? I don't know what Have a good time.

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You have that one a moment. Did you from that? I need to instruct you to summarize my simulation so I don't have.

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It's not an aspal so it's it's crushed somehow. This is crazy.

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Oh What's happened? It's there but we can't do anything. It's it's marked but Do you have an idea of what we could do?

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Oh, yes, yes. That you are here because, it's somehow, it doesn't work.

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We have an artist. Oh yes, yes, good that you are here because it's somehow it doesn't work we have an intestine but it's an organist.

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Oh yes, yes, good that you are here because, it's somehow. It doesn't work. We have an intestine, but it's an organist. Oh, crushed.

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It just, I'll need to run down to M 7 just to grab Tracy. So it should come up as next, So we'll make sure we do.

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Yes.

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Okay, an option would be to send some of the panelists to align the presentations. To screens what we percentage.

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So good. For participants. Basically. She already presented the first one.

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She's a virtual speaker. But it shouldn't be like this. He tries to do this.

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He has to restart her somehow. We have a technical problem here on the side so Have to wait for a while.

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Well, it would be helpful, but I can still walk. Introduce the topic and sensitive discussion. But depends on whether we want to wait for questions about how the actually piece coming up.

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Who knows? Maybe, yeah, maybe you start and let's have what happened. Let's see what happens.

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Yes. Do you want to use this mic or the other one? Thank you.

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Sorry, I'm just gonna try. Sanaa, sorry to call your name. And my friend is online.

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If you are there, are you able to share my PowerPoint because you have a copy on your

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Yeah, let me try to pull it up and see if I can do that just a second.

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Thank you so much. You saved my day. But then we will need to allow to share. We got some help here so we will mind.

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The second one. Telling the whole pages. Yeah, it's a frozen screen. So We're gonna have to leave the zoom unfortunately.

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They're actually not sharing their screen, so. But for some reason it won't. Okay, here we go.

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I just don't want you to have all of these things hanging out so I can set the configurations here, sorry.

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Okay. Let's see, there we go. Alright, cause it's a remote. Is it is it a remote presenter sharing?

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No.

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Some help, people trying to help us to, oh, okay, okay, great. So, thank you so much, Alright, okay.

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Well good morning. I hope I can still remember what I'm going to say now. Thank you very much for coming and I'm presenting the paper with my co-author Marius who's unfortunately not able to come up with my co-author Marius who's unfortunately I'm not able to come but this is a working project so

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we unfortunately are not able to come but this is a working project so we're trying to when we are discussing each other project we find there's a working project so we're trying to when we are discussing each of our project we find there's a lot of working project so we're trying to when we are discussing each other project we find there's a lot of overlapping in terms of the topic

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of love. But my current project mainly focus on this kind of new soft kind of propaganda type of materials released by the Chinese government in recent years and one striking features I personally find interesting is that there's so much stuff centered on this idea of a romantic love and has become a very important ingredient for this kind of, let's

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say, new political propaganda signaling in from the Chinese state. So today's presentation we're basically trying to tease out from both my data a little bit from Paris because he's not here.

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So I'm not able to go in too much detail about his data. But hopefully my data itself will say a lot and I will be able to hear some of your feedbacks.

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So we try to ask the following questions as we put 2 of our project together. As you can see, my is about politics of love and I really want to understand how love is conceptualized from the party state.

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Perspective and how it create this kind of normative features and because down to the circulating within the contemporary Chinese society as a voice of the party.

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And whereas Mary's project is mainly focused on this kind of intergenerational relationship, video piety and how this kind of parental love and lock to one's parents and parents look for the one's children actually has been sort of discussed from the bottom up perspective.

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So you can see that I'm more like looking from the top down and he's trying to see what people actually say and negotiate this kind of discourses.

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So as we thought it would be quite interesting to put our data together and see what comes up. So when we discuss our data, these are a few questions we would like to answer.

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But obviously as I said, it's an ongoing project. So there's a lot of unanswered questions.

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So I would really like to hear if you see sort of any insight there and please do let me know.

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So what is the first one is what is the notion of love and then how love is invoked in different discourses as I mentioned both in party state materials and propaganda materials as well as this kind of popular discourse circulating among the people.

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And also within among these willingness discourse who loves who and what kind of love it is this. For example, love the parents as I mentioned earlier.

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And also how is this ties to the Chinese identity? And one thing particular I'm interested in is like Back 100 years ago at the beginning of a twentieth century this kind of romantic love was discussed among intellectuals in China as a Western import.

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Yeah, so at that time the discussion around romantic love in China was about where actually the marriage and the marriage in China is very much organized by one's family so that therefore it is neither free nor equal so romantic love is non-existent at a time.

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So there were a lot of writing discussing about it. How can we modernize the nation in introducing this kind of equal marriage and equal free choice of marriage partner and modernize love.

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And then fast forward and 100 years down the line we are talking about how romantic club has entered this kind of mainstream discourse and become the Chinese way of the orthodoxy Chinese way to love.

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So that's what I find really, really interesting. So how, and most importantly, this kind of travel from this kind of Western concept to the mainstream Chinese concept and how does this kind of bridging between the individual and the nation happens.

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So that is my personal interest in this project. So I hope that to make it very clear from the start that the focus on love is not just because B.

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I love to talk about love obvious I do but it is actually appears very often in this kind of official party discourse as you can see I don't know how many of you read Chinese, there is a translation.

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So this is actually one of the speech given by our current president and he talks at the celebration of the one hundredth anniversary of the Chinese Communist Party Communist Youth League.

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So addressing to young people and in his speech he clearly stated that the purest love is a love for China and this should be the outcry from the bottom of the heart of the Chinese youth living in our contemporary era.

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So which I find is really cool because here you can see this kind of clearly a hierarchy.

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Hiarchical construction of law that basically give you directions and how to organize your own emotion in some way.

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So just to be clear, this is actually high on the agenda. So in our this particular paper we're still writing we both think that it becomes quite clear to us that love has become this kind of discursive bonding strategies and for the 20 first century propaganda and there has been extensive literature written in recent years talking about the upgraded

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propaganda strategies. I'm employed by the states and there's both hard propaganda as well as soft propaganda which is basically refers to those materials that were infiltrating entertainment industries as well as like I don't know digital platforms using celebrities etc.

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To indoctrinating the party line into its population. Most, a lot of them actually targeting at young people.

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So we're trying to basically show that how this particular kind of software propaganda really trying to, if the right English word is latching on individual emotions and respond to individual emotions in a way that I find it's maybe maybe this is an innovative angle that's where how the party states actually respond to this kind of transformation of Chinese

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society in my view. Because if for those of you who are not familiar with the Chinese context, we will see that since the marketization, the society actually transformed in many, well in many dimensions there are a lot of these kind of what we've got to argue about the individualisation of Chinese society and there's a lot of debate around

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that. But one thing is clear is that the individual desires has really arrived alongside with this kind of neo-nebro marketization transformation.

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So individual design is high on people's work is part of this driving force of Chinese social transformation. So how the party states also propaganda machinery also kind of like wider tide to respond to this kind of individual desire.

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That is where I find the romantic love is become a very kind of individual desire. That is where I find the romantic love. That is where I find a romantic love.

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It's become a very kind of shining star in this kind of messaging. Okay, so my published work has already talked about with another co-author that the we analyze this kind of TV series or during COV.

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19 and see that how party states basically recasting itself as a humanized party and the state media increasingly take a humanistic and desire centered approach within which love is a central vehicle to communicate its propaganda message as I already mentioned and most importantly heteronomative romantic love exemplified by modern citizens form the base that

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to extend the individuals effective loyalty and commitment to other family members like intergenerational love as well as love to other people in Chinese society and by extension the Chinese nation states that the party is supposed to plan to represent.

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So I think we're trying to sterilize this kind of emotional responsiveness in propaganda called well responsive program propaganda.

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That is what we're trying to argue here. A little bit kind of like data that hopefully help us to make the argument.

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This is one of these typical typical new stories that comes up from my data collections. So basically we draw our data from the people's daily which is one of the mouthpiece of the party.

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And then now they they digitize this newspaper. So everybody who has Wechat's newspaper.

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So everybody who has Wechat account, if you follow them, you will receive this kind of daily news feed.

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And if funny enough, so my data collection was between 2,019. Yes, 2,019 to last year.

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So during this period, yesterday I did a quick search as well. It's still the same pattern.

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So I did a general keyword search. I said, oh, let's just search the key words marriage.

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Yeah, oh, we are married. The same title as you can see here. And basically the picture for those of you who don't know the Chinese concept.

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This is a standard wedding photo. So when you go to the marriage registration, this is the normal photo.

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So when you go to the marriage registration, this is the normal photo you take with your partner. So anybody in China will recognize these photos.

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It's like this kind of typical symbol of marriage. So if I get this keyword search and it comes up repetitively.

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Probably each year there are around 20 articles like this kind of news feed into our Wechat account. The same exactly same time to congratulation they are married and the couple's photo and well half of them will be using exactly the same kind of photo style the marriage restriction registration photo or others would be some of the more kind of casual loving

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happy couple photos the couple normally take in China when they get married. So I think there's this kind of clear sinking all this kind of happy marriage as the center of the storytelling and then if you read the news what you will see is that they often follow this kind of socialist trip or the same kind of model citizen storyline, say how the

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couple endure hardship and both are very committed to their work and then but they was able to postpone their marriage, their wedding because they both are so busy at work because my data collection was during the COVID time.

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So a lot of these kind of happy marriage story congratulation story were telling that how the both couple committed to their work, sorrow during the time they can't get married, they have to post on their wedding several times and finally go married. Yeah.

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And this kind of motto sits in how they sacrifice their personal matures to their love for the country and their service to the country.

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And then the story will often highlight how they are both outstanding workers and performances in their work and then therefore they talk about how they are attracted to each other because of their commitment to their work and which in my view that is clearly signaling that what kind of subject becomes what is lovable let's say yeah so I think this kind of this

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is a typical story to talk about how the committed to the work and then finally eventually go married. The overcome all the obstacles and congratulations.

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The whole nation celebrate their marriage through this kind of newsfeed. So this is just one typical example.

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So after marriage what happens and the same way I do the keyword search there are also repetitive stories about the romantic stories between couples after they got married.

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And this one is actually a love letter written by a frontier soldiers. We don't know. How real or how true this is, but clearly the soldier's love story commonly featured in this kind of news.

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So he's talking about he wrote a love letter to his wife because of long-term separation between them and he has to work to guard the Chinese national borders and he said well if I die in the battle there is no battle at the moment I would leave you with my pension but if I am disabled in the battle I would assume I would leave

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our divorce certificate for you which is like I will be, I will release you so you will have real freedom.

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And then if I come back I will give the rest of my life to you. I don't know how does this text sound like to you to the Western audience or people outside China, but this is a classic troop, love stories in China.

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So it's like I love you to death. I give everything I have to. Maybe there's some similarities, but please tell me.

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So for for me, for the ordinary Chinese audience when we discuss this kind of story. People will say this is really romantic.

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And I even did a video, like voice video to read out this love letters in the digital platform. So I think this is a clear, another interesting example to say that how this kind of propaganda messaging is trying to erect in the sacrificial self like I mentioned earlier as an object of love and this is a one typical example

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of what happens how romantic or how to be romantic lovers fearing your marriage. My final example comes as, well, how love ends.

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Obviously, we all know that in reality doesn't happen that often but in these kind of propaganda news stories we often read that how love becoming mortal news stories we often read that how love becoming news stories, we often read that how love becoming modalized.

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So this is another typical sort of model citizen stories. So this is another typical sort of model citizen stories.

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So this is another typical sort of model citizen stories. So this is another typical sort of model citizen stories.

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Both couples, as you can see the picture there, it was actually quite architecture probably taken at beginning of twentieth century before the Communist Party took over likely and those were medical experts over the last century.

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So they both dedicated their life to their work and become active expert and worked in China all their life. And the news basically said after their death they're the school at the university the works for you go to this kind of statue put them 2 together at a loving couple and not only loved each other but they love their work and they love their

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nation and through their service to the nation. Okay, but what fun, what is striking in the story is that the title is actually talk about how this couple lifelong companionship there are 60 years lifelong companionship lead them to be buried in one grave.

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So again, this is another important sort of symbolic signaling in Chinese love story traditionally say where we can't be born on the same date, but at least we can die on the one day.

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Yeah. That's, we can die on the one day. Yeah. That's the like traditional love story troops say during the let's say the back in history when people are not free to choose their partner they often in order to prove their love to be, we're during the let's say the back in history when people are not freely to choose their partner they often in order to prove their

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love to another they die they they kind of run away from their family and they die on the same day but here we see that they they this couple lived life together but then to immortalize their love to one another they were buried in one brain but actually this is not an uncommon practice in China and partly also because the great price in China nowadays is very

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expensive. Take the property price but they are obviously a lot other emotional family reasons to do so. But here we can see that this kind of comment popular could be popular practice of the people has been incorporated into this kind of storytelling to show that how to be romantic and look at how wonderful this kind of life and companionship can be from the

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point of the party states. Which I think these 3 stories show that this kind of throughout one's life course how to be romantic and how to love your partners has become incorporated very closely into this kind of program messaging.

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In my data, I also find a different kind of slightly different dimension of how love is used is like that becomes you light in the nation and the one of the slightly different kind of average look at this is not only model citizens marriage are celebrated but also couples who come from ethnic minority groups as well as people like for example this

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couple the man is from Taiwan and he married somebody from Lansing. Yeah. So the basically people's daily features, their marriage stories say, look, this is one way how the country can be united through law.

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And which I find is also interesting, like we see that how this is this loves I would say territorial sort of expansion to unite and bridge the national territory in some way.

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And also talk about ethnic harmony. Which today I don't have time to show you the example.

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But for example, the Shinjiang Weger people's love story, especially the man who is also a soldier to defend the Chinese border and his wedding was staged in one of these well under people's daily platform in the same way like the hand wedding which I find is again interesting to see how this kind of essence diversity is

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also united through the same love story. In this kind of news report. Finally, my, co-author, his data actually shows much more realistic portray of how people negotiate love in reality.

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So he basically looked at how people discuss love in when they talk about field piety looking after one's children and obviously as you can imagine real life is full of contradictions and people use this kind of popular discourse and some of them also accept and reject certain part of the party's discourse that it's very hot

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it's very rare actually in his data he told me that to see either completely rejection of the party discourse or the complete acceptance.

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So I think itself this is itself is interesting because you can say obviously Chinese people are not brainwashed by propaganda but this kind of software propaganda emotionally responsive messaging from the party state is actually in some way very powerful because it does incorporate the popular sort of sentiment and cultural symbols, etc.

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To create this kind of new discourses be circulated and part of it will it be circulated?

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And part of it will, it can, well, this is an empirical question that I cannot answer today can be again become part of this kind of discourse stimulated by the population.

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And I think that's that is where I see the let's say I will the power or the danger of the new sort of propaganda we are analyzing.

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So anyway, so this bit is where I want to show you that it's not about everybody brainwashed, but people do negotiate.

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But the negotiation also reflects certain sort of mirroring of the propaganda message as well as sort of rejecting certain part of it.

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If I may conclude, so From what I analyse and seen show you so far and love in the Chinese way and we can see that the party states is very clearly trying to shape a loving subject that is trying to tie this kind of individual desire and emotional needs to the love of one's nation.

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And in my view, this kind of love story is very much rooted this kind of heteronormative, romantic love as the base.

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So you are in love and you love the one person you love and you form this marriage and let's hope you will endure your love throughout your lifetime and then ideally you will be buried in one grave and which in some way really respond to the public sentiment since marketization when the China had this kind of, let's

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say, departing from a cultural revolution time when romantic love was banned and targeted as a political backward.

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Whereas now it is widely celebrated and that is where I see this kind of responsive actually works. Effectively potentially.

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Then also I think that's pretty much the key point. I would like to conclude. I don't know how I might be assigned to.

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Okay, so I shall leave that there and I'm happy to discuss and give you feedback. Thank you very much.

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Thank you, Kylie, for this wonderful presentation. I'm sorry for this technical problem. I'm sorry for this technical problem.

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I'm sorry for this technical problem. So one short quick question is to someone. Yes, please.

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Well, thank you so much for your presentation. It was very interesting. I was wondering if you, because I don't know, I mean in in I'm from Argentina, so my mother tongue is Spanish, but I think in Spanish or in English we have the same problem.

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I don't know how it is in China or how to refer to love in a way, but because when you were speaking about this love for the nation, it came to my mind the idea of the different kind of loves or words to define love used in Greece like this idea of Agape.

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I don't know how it is in English. But if you have like different, words to refer to love in China, and also if you can think, I mean it's like.

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I'm a suggestion or something. You can think like the different kind of love that is. That define or use in these different practices because it's like I don't think I'm not so sure that this kind of love for the nation is that this kind of love for the nation is necessarily an extension of this heteronomy is necessarily an extension of this heteronormative romantic

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love. But maybe could be like kind of changing in between but I don't know if it's if it is used the same word or not.

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And the thank you very much for your question. That's a very interesting end to look at. I think I have a colleague, all of a sudden have been translated to China by the literal perspective.

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But for me, I can only say for now, by the literally perspective. But for me, I can only say for now is that people who do the same work now is that people do the same work love but how we define them for example fast for romantic well they're on added characters to that's worth love.

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So it might mean a different thing. However, maybe I hope I try to make the point that romantic love which with all its uncertainties and passion dangers.

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Has become this kind of stabilizing force used by the party, which obviously we only create contradiction attention.

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But so you reality how that they work is a different story. We own a CD, we are writing something about the transformation of Chinese family or do you think with all of the marriage rate is dropping.

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People are rejecting this kind of the neoliberal term of the world in terms of intimacy really also reached China.

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But at the same time we see that copy state has taken this used to be attacked at the Westminster.

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And then that is where my focus is. But I agree with you, there are definitely some nuances as you need to work on in terms of language.

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Thank you very much. So we continue. I just realized, didn't you see the slides in Zoom?

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You did. Okay, so it's fine. Good. Okay.

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So, now we thank you so much. we come now to our thirtieth speaker.

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He is Maximiliano Marrentas from the Universal Nationalism, Martine, Argentina, and he's going to talk about studying love among Argentinian gay men.

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Let's try punctures now.

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Yeah, but. Just a second here to put this hard. And can you see the slides in Zoom?

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Yes, yes, yes we can.

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Maybe there in the future. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. Good morning, everybody.

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And so happy for have participated for the ISA WORLD. Looking forward to listening to your comments that I'm pretty sure will contribute to improving my the paper I would like to publish.

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Change or not. It's the same 10 yeah. This was a presentation aims to introduce the love story's approach as an analytical device.

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The one I found to study gay love from a sociological perspective. It is more than a mirror methodology.

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On the contrary, it integrates methodological dimensions of course as well as theoretical political and even ethical concerns.

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As I demonstrate, this approach has so many advantages, but I will focus on 3 of them. First, it allows to call the scholars to grasp.

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Love experiences. Second, it offers the chance of catching the specific conditions that make it possible to put love into action.

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Thirdly, its engagement with our diachronic perspective restore dynamism. Briefly, my main goal is to convince you that the love stories approach is a great one for sociological studies of law.

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I happen with every tale, my love story with this approach has its own once upon a time. In 2,015 I started my doctoral scholarship to study gay love specificities.

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At that moment, I was in the second year of my master in cultural sociology program in Argentina because of the length of our LISCENCY TORUS, to the former German diplomas, you don't need a masters to enroll in a PAT.

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However, I did both. A master and a doctor. But going to the portal in 2,015 I conducted some exploratory interviews with 9 young Argentinian gay men living in the metropolitan area of Wensitis.

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I was taking my first steps in this topic so I copied the questionnaire that I lose included in the appendix of her consuming their romantic utopia.

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One of the crucial questions in her study was something like how a romantic dinner should be. I ask these 9 gay men the same.

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I remember that Diego, a performer in his late twentys, admitted that a romantic dinner could be in a calm and fancy restaurant with just music under candlelight.

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But he also considered that a very romantic encounter could take place at a greasy spoon around the corner.

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Or eventually it could also be very romantic to share a handmade lentil stew. Then he introduced a romantic moment which curiously happened during dinner with his former boyfriend.

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I should confess that I did not like so much Diego's answers. However, at that moment I was able to understand that the romantic side of something comes from the story in which is framed.

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I mean a romantic dinner is romantics because you are having a meal with someone more or less special.

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Digos answer was not an exception. On the contrary, the other participants share similar ideas. Thanks to them I was able to understand that at least for gay men and for me as a researcher it is more important the actual existing love.

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Those practices and experiences settle in love relationships It is more important that than how love is reproduced in movies and TV.

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Of course, they did watch Titanic and cried in sad movies, but love a long gaze was always marginalized.

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In this perspective, has a headercentric bias that requires adjusting the lens to analyze love among women.

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And because of that, it became more compelling to unfold the love stories. The narratives where love experiences are integrated.

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As mentioned before, I was doing my masters. For my master thesis, I analyzed love stories in cultural production.

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Icon this umbrella term to include movies, so pop operas, books, newspapers, and a gave way a gay wedding magazine.

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When examining the love stories portrait in such a realistic corpus, I discovered that apart from the main protagonist, there were more people.

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For example, it was common that in some of these stories a brother guessed his brother's secret desire for another mum.

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So there were relatives, but also friends and third parties. And this was at the end because there were things non-human beings too like jokes, arguments, toys, objects, etc.

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At that moment came to my mind that 2 raised ideas of the social to apply to the couple. Maybe it is something that we should not take for granted.

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And what we have to do is to explore how all these things are assembled. Because of that, I started to think of a couple network which in its becoming has to pass through different mechanisms of a civilization.

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One of them is the bond labeling, which referred to the risky question of what we are or how can this or our thing should be called.

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Because of that, instead of considering that love stories are starved by boyfriends, lovers or husbands, I define the protagonist as pardoners.

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It's generic characteristics allows to address the pluralities of potential bone names and how they change during the love stories becoming.

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After finishing my master thesis, I started to plan the fieldwork to collect the data for my doctoral dissertation.

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At that moment I was interested in testing this analytical scheme to conduct empirical work with actual human beings.

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I decided to conduct in-depth interviews. I decided to conduct in depth interviews with gay men to reconstruct their love stories.

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Letters, emails and messages they read during the interviews, songs they liked, etc. However, the main eminological resource was the interview.

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I started to create an intentional sample. I decided to interview 38 men, neither more nor less because I had the correct intuition that it was the number of participants I was able to handle.

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Then I decided that it would be the plural in terms of residence, not only living in the city of Buenos Aires but also in the entire metropolitan area.

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Another feature of this guaranteed is the fact that I included single men, married, some who had boyfriends, some others living with them and some whose relationship status changed during the fieldwork.

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Because of a theoretical decision I focus on young gay men and the 40 according to an Argentinean sociologist, The younger generations should have been raised during the gay era in contrast to the homosexual one.

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So I defined gay love because these men were socialised in the gay regime and not because they necessarily defined themselves as race.

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From the very beginning of the interviews, I was planned to do them in more than one encounter, originally 3, but immediately I figure out that it should be in 4 encounters.

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And with 2 of these guys we have a fifth one. As happened when conduct qualitative research it is hard to characterize the entire process as linear.

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However, the realistic organization of the interviews was focusing on different things in need to encounter. The first encounter was devoted to collecting the social demographic data not as an serving but with biographical sensitivity.

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In the second encounter, I asked them to narrate all their love stories. I mean, those they wanted.

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I asked for details regarding times, duration, socio-demographic aspects of their partners and so on.

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Then in the third encounter I asked about different things during their love stories like money gives, travel, secrets, etc.

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And in the fourth what other people like relatives, friends, ex-parties did during those love stories.

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After collecting, collecting the data, all that and transcribing the interviews, I face as a common challenge when conducting qualitative research.

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How to systematise and analyse all the adult information. Since the traces of each story were widespread in different parts of the interview's transcription, I, it was necessary to reconstruct the love stories.

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In doing so, it was clear that love stories had at least 2 mediators, the participants themselves, who narrate their stories.

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And myself as the analyst. Because of that I had to make some decisions. For example, to define the tension between biographies and love stories.

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I decided to take each of them to each love story for their particularities. I mean, I like the Catalan anthropologist Marie Lutheran, I was not interested in how one person loves stories merge into an amatory biography.

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Taking every love story from its singularity I was able to see that a love pattern is not necessarily, I was able to see that a love pattern is not necessarily something that a love pattern is not necessarily something to happen but a possibility.

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Thus, I realized that love stories are at the intersection of different distinctions within the biographical approach.

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On the one side there is a distinction between the life story and the life history where the first is more oriented into symbolic issues reachable from interviews with a large number of participants.

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The life history is more concerned with the social structure conditions of one particular life. Reconstructed from a variety of sources.

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Love stories indeed are primarily based on the taste the participants narrate, but they also included, when possible, other sources.

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And they are both concerned with the meaning people attribute to their practices and with the social conditions that made that love happen.

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On the other side, the other is between the biographical method that is used to study an entire lifetime or a meaningful event in one trajectory like coming from a poor background and the narrative approach on the contrary is used to study the same events, for example, unemployment in many participants.

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L stories are reconstructed indeed referring to one issue, love experiences, but at the same time they happen at specific times but are affected by previous love stories and affect the future ones.

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Finally, they were decisions. To make regarding the duration of the stories. It is more or less easy to know when they start, but not when they finish.

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I decided that the last mention of it should have story in the one participants interview is the ending of that story.

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Last, the number of partners is usually reduced to 2, but there are some cases in which there are 3.

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I'm not sure if up to now you are convinced of the benefits of the Love Stories approach.

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Nonetheless, I'll try to do my best to point out its main asset. The principle of reversibility.

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So, it's a iconic perspective allow us to focus more than on contingency on reversibility or how things can be redone or unknown.

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This principle helps us to solve some deadded issues. For example, one common question I am used to answering is about to what extent gay couples reproduce heteronormativity.

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I can see that this question is about a starting point in the sense that it is easily confused form and content and trade the couple the form that is supposed to be heteronormative as a stable thing.

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On the contrary, love stories unfold the actions and practices people make in the couple becoming, some of them maybe and at a specific moment could be more heteronormative while others are not heteronormative at all.

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And another thing that provides a visit for reversibility help us to observe is that power with a couple is not something already fixed and anchor in predefined dispositional aspects like age, sex, class, etc.

365
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No. When observing the coconut we're becoming, it is possible to deny the power goes and comes and there are different mechanisms of symmetrization.

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Last but not least, the love stories approach reversibility is excellent for a realistic description of identities and sexual exclusivity.

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I mean, there are some perspectives from non-monogamy studies which easily characterize a person or eventually a couple as monogamous or polymers.

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I have to say that when we're constructing all more than 170 love stories, monogamy and non-monogamy was not so easy to grasp.

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Why? Because during the becoming, people made some or less efforts to reach agreements on their monogamous and non-monogamous arrangements, reversible agreements that were renegotiated at abandoned during their love stories.

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So, I would like to conclude. With the different assets this approach offers for studying now. First, a theoretical one regarding the chance to grasp this phenomenon from a sociological approach not ignoring its modern character characteristic.

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Second, the meteorological asset relies on having the chance to capture love experiences and practices. Going forward and then the mirror description of utopias and representations.

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Regarding the political asset, it restores the social dynamism that is necessary to take into account into account when studying issues like the power balance between the partners or the couple members.

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Finally, the ethical asset. Love stories take seriously the participants since describing the action from their perspective and not despite them.

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As it happens 1 one states, no, because actually what this person feels, blah, blah, blah.

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In doing so, it incorporates the random and insignificant details that matter to the participants. Now it it happens in every story, not only the loved ones, this presentation comes to an end.

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Thank you.

377
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You Thank you so much, Maximiliano. So time for our short question.

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Is there anyone?

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Yes, please. Yes, thank you.

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Yes. Yeah, I was interested in what you were saying about the difficulty of establishing what counts as heteronormative styles or homonormative styles or homonormative styles or heteronormative styles or homonormative styles and thinking about I'm

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wondering about to what extent people had aspirations towards that kind of stable couple relationship with the enduring love variety if you like to refer back to the first paper.

382
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Sorry, again, so to what extent you talked about the variation in whether people were heteronormative and slipped in and out of it.

383
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Or Homer normative I would probably say. Yeah. But I wondered to what extent people aspired to a kind of enduring love type of relationship.

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Which has been found in studies elsewhere for example in the UK in Brian Keith's work. And Travis Kong's book just out on Chinese men showing how people really aspire to this but very rarely realise it.

385
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:20.000
Well, thank you. The thing about a hetronormative and home normative, to me is like sometimes when we start from that starting point, it's like we cannot.

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Absurd practices. I mean, if someone is saying to other one, I love you, is that better normative or normative?

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Or it's just someone saying, I love you. Or if someone says, okay, I would like to have a dog with you and so to live together in our environment.

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Is that heteronormative or it's just a wish of I would like to live with you?

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I mean from that it's like not presuming that practices are heteronormative or hope or normative per se.

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I prefer like describing practices and R introduced the cell or tried to grasp the census makeup people make.

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And regarding the ideas of the science of possibility. It is, I don't know, I mean in the sense that it is plural.

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And when you reconstruct these love stories, you can see that there are pluralities and not all of the love stories.

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Want the same in a way. It's like Maybe they won't be pretending to stabilise in a couple or cohabitate or maybe not and it was just like that.

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So it's something to, because sometimes I think it's difficult to respect all these pluralities when we are studying them.

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So the couple network and assembly let us observe how the things are going and coming and I think there are mechanisms of a civilization like for example the bone labeling but they are not necessarily or even the cohabitation or getting married and so on but they are always renegotiations and you can see what people both the partners and also the

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other actors in that network. Due to. Get or reach data civilisation or to abandon that civilisation too because it's like you can it is one of the things that this idea of love stories is to work with this plurality and random practices that people is doing because at the very end of the day it's

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like. I love it on itself. Thank you. Okay, thank you so much.

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Maximilian. You made it. Okay, thank you so much. Maximilian.

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Okay, thank you so much. Maximilian. You made us curious now about these interviews and what these people have been talking but it was lovely to learn about these interviews and what these people have been talking but it was lovely to learn about your research about what these people have been talking about your research about approach.

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Thank you so much. Now we come to to our board and last speaker. Have to hear.

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So now we have to

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Just a one now.

403
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I think you might want to and share the

404
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Yes, yes, we have to, I have to put out here. Yes, stop sharing just a second.

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So now our fourth speaker is Yuko Ribeardo Dima from the Ekol Deserte Dutante and Social in France and he's going to speak about love and friendship.

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So please you go.

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Absolutely. So hello everybody. I am speaking from Paris so it's little bit late here. And I won't speak too loud because I'm in a small flat and that people are sleeping not too far.

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So, yes, indeed, I'm going to speak about friendship in the specific context of India.

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And as part of my PhD, I'm still at my doctoral phase as part of my PhD.

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Entering to understand how urbanization in India is transforming the practice of friendship and in turn how friendship may.

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Transform Indian society or society where traditionally kinship has been predominantly. And as part of my stadium comparing 2 small cities and I'm using both quantitative and qualitative I'm not going to go too much into detailing to my data.

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And I would I would speak about different issues today but I just wanted to have a quick glimpse.

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At some of my findings because it would be important for you to understand why I'm studying all of that.

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So one of the key puzzling finding of my study. Was that I found that that in my survey woman had.

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Less close friends than men and not only that overall you can see that on the left a graph They tended to value friendship.

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Less than it another surprising finding is that there was also social factor which was that working classes tended to have less intimate friends, less close friends than richer populations.

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So to make sense of these figures. Of course I need to clarify a point. What is friendship? And to introduce this question I would like to refer to one Hindi moving.

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Kozko to Hotel. It released 1998 and it was a huge hit.

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India just massive blockbuster. And especially there is one scene which is particularly memorable. In which Miss.

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Nature professor teaching Romeo and Juliet to a classroom. Ask her students what is love. And one students, his name is Brahul.

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And he's the main protagonist. He's played by Shadow Kard. He answers, love, love his friendship.

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And this very line has become extremely popular.

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At that time when the movie released, it was seen as very modern. Because this sentence articulated in a very fresh manner Romans and.

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But today I'm wondering. What did the Rahul really have in mind? What was friendship to him?

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And the answer to this question is not obvious. Because friendship is not a universal concept. It's a very fluid, very polysimic.

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Very subjective concept. So we need to explore that a little bit more.

427
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And so you'd like to make a parallel with, the presentation that Arahil did.

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In which he said that performs the conceptions of an intimacy are Western oriented and exactly that's the same issue with friendship.

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Most of the theory on friendship has emerged from the West. And I am of the opinion that we really need to dissenter.

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Understanding conferences. In fact, I'm I'm of the opinion that we need to broaden Okay.

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And I'm giving 3 examples. With these 3 matrix. The first one is that these 2 young men that you see on the top right, they introduce themselves to me.

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As best friends. But I also got to know later that they were also uncle and nephew.

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For this reason, I believe that this is important to some extent we include kinship in friendship. And here we like to highlight the fact that in the title of my presentation, we have to take out of our presentation.

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I wrote, I think, internet ties outside kinship. With that one year ago, last September when I applied for the conference.

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And since then, I use have a go. I do not believe that. Kin and friendship is the acquisitive function otherwise.

436
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Second, I think we are also to change the scale of friendship and take into consideration not only in DID friendships, but also more collective forms of friendship.

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From the second picture, for example, you see these The regular at the tea shop and I believe that this kind of Lose, weak, lesser sentimental forms of friendship also need to.

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Be taken into consideration. And finally, I think again a parallel with the ahead. I think we need to think about the temporality of friendship.

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And for example, thank you to account. Very FMO. Maybe we strangest on the next picture you see an helping a complete stranger.

440
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To go up a hill with this food. So likewise, taking this decentering approach in mind today in this specific presentation.

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I'll be talking about the link between love and friendship and the text of me.

442
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So in the server it's very obvious, there is no doubt about it. Friendship is love that came back often in interviews but now the problem is if friendship is up, what is love?

443
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So we are back to square well and this is not a scoring question.

444
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In reality, when we ask about the link between friendship and love, The question is Should we distinguish friendship?

445
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Romance and Sex or And this is a question which has been So about by philosophers since the Greeks and then probably before.

446
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But I'm not so much in the fields that you could expect. I'm more interested into practice and in the practice.

447
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In history, it's true that physical intimacy among men and women has always concerned a wide range of relationships, including for what we call today friendship.

448
01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:56.000
Oh, don't vanita, for example, has documented that romantic friendships with very common Come, come on, in India or in in the West from the Middle Age until more recent.

449
01:20:56.000 --> 01:21:04.000
Yeah, but this has changed, Europe and other America in the nineteenth century.

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This time 2 parallel phenomenon have had the first. As individuals as gained in autonomy. And could not marry whoever they wished.

451
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Duclear family and the couple became more and more important, become more central in the life Africa. And in this context any excess of affection outside of the household.

452
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Became somehow suspect. At the same time, you were so had it was a time of fraud and the rise of picon analysis and And during this time, people started using labels like Hey.

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And because of that, certain practices which was seen previously as. You know what? Example, 2 female friends living in the same bed.

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Made a friend sending each other love letters. All these practices started being seen as homosexuality of the interest.

455
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For this reason, certain scholars have reviewed that the distinction between romance and friendship was a pretty recent Western construction.

456
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If we get back to the case of India. Very clearly. There is a very intense semantic porosity.

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Between love romance and friendship and sex in the Indian context. So for example if you take the most common words in Hindi.

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To talk about friendship, which I do the Yarri or even the English word the friendship actually which is very often used.

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At when all these words have very different connotations depending on the context. And they can be very loaded, erotically speaking.

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If you take this first sentence. Will you make or do you do friendship with me? This comes directly from the Hindi.

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MOTHER, And in the nineties it became very classic pick a play. People would say that to ask someone else.

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And interestingly, it was also very often associated with lower social classes with poor comment over English and Pocoment of our dating advocates.

463
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And sometimes the word friendship has a straightforward sexual condition. For example, when the group of 5 men, all of them friends.

464
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And one of them at some point said that he had not kept friendship. I not get a friend since he got married and I was confused because he had his friends all around.

465
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And clarified that what he meant is that he hadn't had 6 sexual partner.

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But the porosity between sensuality and friendship It's not just about words, it's also about performance practices.

467
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He says been studied quite extensively. It's very common for male friends to hold hands. And also if we look at cinema, the portfolios of male friendship in cinemas feature intense passion at least until the end of the nineties.

468
01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:19.000
And a kind of passion that's usually in. Western movies would be more reserved for heterosexual romance.

469
01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:28.000
And you can check for example the So lyrics are artistic from the movie dosti. You are my world, my desires, my identity.

470
01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:39.000
So in my cases, I view that these forms of expression Consum mostly working classes. And that they are actually disappearing and organizing.

471
01:24:39.000 --> 01:24:47.000
But my main point here is to say that in same same-sex friendship in India. There is a porosity which we might not find.

472
01:24:47.000 --> 01:24:50.000
In other geographies.

473
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:59.000
So several Indian scholars have argued that the fact that the lengths are often buried in friendship in India is actually should be celebrated.

474
01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:06.000
This act should be celebrated. For example, because French cheats. As.

475
01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:16.000
How are devocation. It often makes the life of men who have sex with men or women who have sex with them and somehow easier.

476
01:25:16.000 --> 01:25:29.000
Somehow open spaces of freedom for that. And I'd like to point out. That's on the right, the magazine you see is called Bongi dose.

477
01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:36.000
And it was one of the first game magazines in India. Likewise, actually Kanner commenting on the practice.

478
01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:53.000
Of holding in among male friends. For him he argued that it's a mistake to describe this as platonic friendship as many US and commented as at that time because precisely Homo erotic dimension of this phenomenon.

479
01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:58.000
Should not be denied it should be celebrated.

480
01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:15.000
How are you? I also believe that to be a mistake to put romance, sex and friendship on the First, because on the field, my correspondence or they would use the word friendship toasts.

481
01:26:15.000 --> 01:26:22.000
To talk about this 3 different ranges well they did See a difference, a conceptual difference in the 3.

482
01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:33.000
I really want to underscore that. For example. Often when I would, especially with women when I would Introduce a topic and say that I wanted to discuss friendship with them.

483
01:26:33.000 --> 01:26:41.000
It would get very agitated because they thought that I wanted to talk about dating or affair, which was not my intention.

484
01:26:41.000 --> 01:26:48.000
So often I had to mention that I was more interested in every differential. To make sure that they would feel more relaxed.

485
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:57.000
They would be more willing to talk to. So it's sure that there is a difference in I don't know.

486
01:26:57.000 --> 01:27:13.000
Still today, the friendship between men and women is still double. I believe that maintaining a confusion between Romans and friendship somehow fuels is that if we go back to Rahul at the beginning of the presentation.

487
01:27:13.000 --> 01:27:18.000
In fact, for the whole Westwest. But I hope friendship with first of all is charity. At the beginning of the movie we see him distributing friendship bands to all the girls he wants to sing.

488
01:27:18.000 --> 01:27:31.000
And for him, friendship was also the first step to Romance. In fact, in the movie that's big, sorry.

489
01:27:31.000 --> 01:27:41.000
He ends up falling in love with his best. And I find that by putting Romans and friendship at the same level, this movie like many of others.

490
01:27:41.000 --> 01:27:57.000
Spreads the idea that in fact friendship between men and women is impossible. Has to do. And, I don't know if I have time, but I'll do it very quickly often and also in the current political context of India.

491
01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:05.000
This bluriness between Romans and and friendship is currently Weeponized by Hindu nationalists.

492
01:28:05.000 --> 01:28:22.000
Have current concept of love jihad, which is this Muslims Muslim men as producing Hindu women to convert them and you can see here on this TV show you have an anchor discussing the have been spotted in a Hindu celebration.

493
01:28:22.000 --> 01:28:38.000
Dancing and doing dance and we said, and the text says over there is a hijab is necessary and here they want to do frenches so you can see here the interaction between Romans, sex, seduction, friendship.

494
01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:47.000
And I believe that's. Somehow it's more confusing to user or designs.

495
01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:52.000
So what I've done, as part of my,

496
01:28:52.000 --> 01:29:01.000
Perfect. Is that I took the decision to actually remove romance. Remove romantic romance, a romantic story friendship from my service.

497
01:29:01.000 --> 01:29:10.000
And I did that to avoid antiquities. I know it's a limitation, but I felt at least for the quantitative part when I ask people, do you have close friends for example?

498
01:29:10.000 --> 01:29:22.000
I felt it was important to remove any. I did like a little issue in the in-depth introduced that's not in the

499
01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:34.000
And following the work of a recent, If you, I also believe that there is value. Celebrating the differences of friendship.

500
01:29:34.000 --> 01:29:42.000
With other from off-flavourance or, erotic. Yeah.

501
01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:52.000
Finally, in fact, I don't give a clear final definition of friendship. In my ad.

502
01:29:52.000 --> 01:30:03.000
I believe that friendship is a spectrum, a spectrum of practices. Wearing loyalty and attachment varies in intensity.

503
01:30:03.000 --> 01:30:08.000
And I've identified Buddhist being 3 blocks of friendship styles in the 2 cities I've studied.

504
01:30:08.000 --> 01:30:17.000
Continue your friendship, functional friendship. And intimate. And to go back to the figure as we get that I shed at the very beginning.

505
01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:29.000
I believe that gender and social inequalities seem to be the most acute. For intimate. Intimate friendships with requires resources.

506
01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:37.000
And also Gives access to resources and which is why I frame in my cases intimacy and intimate friendship.

507
01:30:37.000 --> 01:30:40.000
As a privilege.

508
01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:48.000
And to conclude I would like to say that it's not possible to define. Friendship exorcism, there is not one way of doing friendship.

509
01:30:48.000 --> 01:30:55.000
And it's the beauty of friendship actually. And if we look at this photo which I took in the city of Margot.

510
01:30:55.000 --> 01:31:03.000
Well, I'm pretty sure that each person you see on this frame. Has a different way of experiencing.

511
01:31:03.000 --> 01:31:12.000
Practicing imagining friendship. And this is actually this needs PCTR friendship, which makes it such a fascinating subject object of study.

512
01:31:12.000 --> 01:31:28.000
And also potentially a transformative social channel.

513
01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:38.000
Thank you so much, Eco, for this very fascinating presentation. I take one question. I take one question directly to Ugo for this very fascinating presentation.

514
01:31:38.000 --> 01:31:42.000
I take one question directly to Ugo and then open the general question.

515
01:31:42.000 --> 01:31:52.000
Hello. Sorry. Thank you very much. Hugo.

516
01:31:52.000 --> 01:32:07.000
I just wondering, because you mentioned there is kind of a survey you did at the beginning that there's this kind of a survey you did at the beginning that there are more men, have more friends than women.

517
01:32:07.000 --> 01:32:13.000
I wonder whether you and the beginning that there are more men, have more friends than women. I wonder whether you and in the end you've talked about intimacy as

518
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:19.000
Thank you for the question. Yes, so in fact gender is at the very root of. Study.

519
01:32:19.000 --> 01:32:29.000
I want to understand What's urbanization brings? Which could somehow reduce the gender gap. In Indian cities.

520
01:32:29.000 --> 01:32:37.000
A gender gap which is huge, for example, the constraints in terms of mobility for women in some cities of India is very important.

521
01:32:37.000 --> 01:32:46.000
So I wanted to know what. Comes with organization which lines maybe reduce these inequalities. And I thought that's exposure.

522
01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:58.000
Socialty and friendship could be such ways. So my theory is that French urbanization actually makes friendship easier, both for women and men.

523
01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:04.000
And that at this stage of urbanization there is a huge gap between equipment and women in terms of sociality.

524
01:33:04.000 --> 01:33:10.000
Men able to experience friendship, nurture friendship in a way that women are not. But I believe that organization on the long run is going to reduce this gap.

525
01:33:10.000 --> 01:33:29.000
So gender is definitely very centrally my initial reflection and I also think about What are the factors which makes friendship?

526
01:33:29.000 --> 01:33:36.000
More difficult. And maybe we can discuss that. In the following questions.

527
01:33:36.000 --> 01:33:43.000
Thank you very much. Okay, thank you so much. We could you please stop sharing your slides? I am showing.

528
01:33:43.000 --> 01:33:45.000
Sorry.

529
01:33:45.000 --> 01:33:54.000
So thank you so much. Okay. So.

530
01:33:54.000 --> 01:34:05.000
We can know, I can now open to the floor for questions. For all of the panelists. Yes, please, there's one.

531
01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:15.000
But then you can come there over there maybe sort of people online can see you. Thank you everyone for your presentations.

532
01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:22.000
I really like the sort of distinction. I really like the distinction between love and intimate friendships. I really like the sort of distinction between love and intimate friendships and such.

533
01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:32.000
I guess Kailing. In regards to the politicisation of love. In the Chinese context. My question is I have 2 questions.

534
01:34:32.000 --> 01:35:02.000
The first question is When you say that the in the Chinese context there are depictions of the love towards the state In other I guess from a comparative perspective I know that the North Korean state they politicize their love in their propaganda as love towards the motherland and in some I think like Mother Russia is another one that they use and in some other context I

535
01:35:02.000 --> 01:35:11.000
think. Germany refers to it as the Fatherland. I was wondering in the politicization of this state love?

536
01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:19.000
Are there any gendered components to it, you know, depicting the mother as the caring figure or the father as the authority.

537
01:35:19.000 --> 01:35:36.000
So that is my first question and the second question is also When we use these digital forms of media such as Wechat and app social applications to I guess reach a wide audience.

538
01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:51.000
Do we see this reciprocation of propaganda in the wider Chinese diaspora who use wechat as we know like wechat is not just popular within China, it is also very popular amongst the Chinese diaspora.

539
01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:58.000
Overseas so I was wondering if you see any trends or patterns for diaspora to I guess Yeah, maintain this relationship through these online channels.

540
01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:07.000
Thank you.

541
01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:14.000
Oh Or do you must keep come here maybe here? Oh yeah, thank you. Thank you very much for your question.

542
01:36:14.000 --> 01:36:35.000
The first one. Yeah, absolutely. The gender component is very clear. But for the data set I showed you today is from this particular platform, which is a very mainstream people's daily, which unfortunately I was told by my peers and said nobody nobody, no young people follow people's daily.

543
01:36:35.000 --> 01:36:43.000
You are weird. So I think there are different kind of channels targeted at different kind of audience. But all of them are digitalized.

544
01:36:43.000 --> 01:36:53.000
So you would have different kind of newspaper and all of them will have Wechat account like you mentioned as well as like Chinese Weibo which is like a blog, this kind of platform.

545
01:36:53.000 --> 01:37:01.000
So there are different kind of variations in terms of gender component and yes the Chinese motherland is referring like the motherland is referring to the nation, the territorial kind of expansion.

546
01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:13.000
So it was feminized. But on the other hand, in terms of But there is also different masculinized vision of that.

547
01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:27.000
It's like the, because the territory is kind of feminized, imagined, therefore the militarization of Sorry, the people's liberation army when they are portrayed is very much masking image as probably not surprising.

548
01:37:27.000 --> 01:37:39.000
Yeah, but my main focus for this project is not specific on that. It is more like his normative portrayal of family life and how that becomes.

549
01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:48.000
But I agree with you, absolutely gendered, similar probably similar to the Russia and in many other countries not only restricted to authoritarian regimes.

550
01:37:48.000 --> 01:37:57.000
But that's another interesting dimension that probably for a different project. For the second questions, the digital platforms is widely widespread like you said.

551
01:37:57.000 --> 01:38:07.000
Even in Australia we see that we can use a lot of China's digital platforms. I personally only down a small-scale pilot research about the Chinese diasporas.

552
01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:25.000
I can't claim any patterns, but I can only claim, I can only say that what I observe is that I will say the little bit of what a little bit I personally a little bit concerned is this kind of the new group of Chinese diasporas is increasingly being reached by well in some way.

553
01:38:25.000 --> 01:38:32.000
Still remain using the same kind of Chinese digital platform even though they travel and become transnationally mobile.

554
01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:42.000
So that can, if we look at this kind of soft propaganda. Incorporate with popular cultures and etc.

555
01:38:42.000 --> 01:38:54.000
I do think there is certain risk in some innocence of how much this diarrhoea can integrate and the sense of how much these diets per community can integrate and then where do they get their access to their other information sources.

556
01:38:54.000 --> 01:39:09.000
But that is a different kind of project and I personally cannot answer for certain to what extent and obviously again I think it's also dangerous to assume that it's Chinese diaspora are homogeneous because they are very diverse as well in terms of political attitude.

557
01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:26.000
Thank you. Just one last thing because Stevie said he want to add and Stevie is a professor from the University of York.

558
01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:33.000
I did my PhD and you want to add 1 point because Stevie said he want to add and Stevie is a professor from the University of York.

559
01:39:33.000 --> 01:40:00.000
I did my PhD and you want to add 1 point. And it's very explicit that love for China is what is required.

560
01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:10.000
On the other hand, amongst Hong Kongers themselves, you have this very strong love for Hong Kong which is opposed to this love for China.

561
01:40:10.000 --> 01:40:26.000
So again it's a very politicized notion of love. And love for love for place in nation.

562
01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:32.000
Hello, this is Ramon Pranatova University. And have 2 questions, one for Rahil and another one for Google.

563
01:40:32.000 --> 01:40:55.000
The question corner here is what is your framework for example in terms of understanding this changing relationships because we have maybe the book that a book from Ava use, the end of love, where he relates the casual flexibility, flexible self-flexible conditions at work with a cancellation of relationships and the changing nature of relationships.

564
01:40:55.000 --> 01:41:04.000
Maybe the cause is from coming from capitalism. But we have other theoretical frameworks for example from symbolic interactions.

565
01:41:04.000 --> 01:41:13.000
One of the premises are that people are constantly changing and then we need to explain stability rather than change.

566
01:41:13.000 --> 01:41:21.000
So it's a different take from What maybe people list or or what capitalism generates, right?

567
01:41:21.000 --> 01:41:29.000
And I would like to know what you think about this. Joe frameworks in relation to the 2 questions that you asked at the beginning.

568
01:41:29.000 --> 01:41:31.000
Sorry at the end about temporality, how they affects, I mean the 2 question that you ask in the conclusions.

569
01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:46.000
And then the last rebirth with Google, is it possible that Docup, Balewing, Forensic, right?

570
01:41:46.000 --> 01:42:04.000
Because man, my, my interpret friendship as a kind of way of flirting as you said right and that is easier for them to accept that they might be flirting whereas for women they will have an stigma if they are interested in interesting they might what is the meaning that they associate the money more than one meaning in that

571
01:42:04.000 --> 01:42:12.000
gap, Anyway, that's it. Thank you.

572
01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:17.000
Who wants to start? Again, do you like to start?

573
01:42:17.000 --> 01:42:38.000
Well, yes, thank you. Actually I, didn't completely get the second part so I'm familiar with the book The End of Love by Avail loose so that part I got but then the second theoretical framework that was mentioned something about people constantly changing i didn't really get that

574
01:42:38.000 --> 01:42:39.000
parcel

575
01:42:39.000 --> 01:42:51.000
The second framework is just accepts that is the nature of human beings to change. Right, that we all constantly change and then we need to explain why people are in relationships.

576
01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:52.000
Hmm.

577
01:42:52.000 --> 01:43:09.000
That is kind of the weird aspect of that that needs an explanation because it assumes changes change. The second the second framework will be assuming change as part of human nature, let's say.

578
01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:17.000
And then sociologists come to explain stability because chain is part of life, right? Not the problem of capitalism.

579
01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:28.000
Okay, thank you. Yeah, I guess, And so your question was about the theoretical framework that I use and what I think about these 2.

580
01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:43.000
I don't yeah as an anthropologist my interest is in how something is presented as natural and presenting it as natural what it what it enables and what it does.

581
01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:54.000
So I try to refrain from assuming myself as a researcher. Yeah, how people normally behave.

582
01:43:54.000 --> 01:44:06.000
But I, yeah, try to sort of. Trace the dominant concepts that are used. For people to make sense of their relationship and intimate practices.

583
01:44:06.000 --> 01:44:15.000
To make it a bit more concrete. The recent research I did on polyamory and non-monogamies more generally.

584
01:44:15.000 --> 01:44:23.000
One thing that I noticed that this is in line with what in Lose has found is the dominance of interiority and emotion.

585
01:44:23.000 --> 01:44:46.000
As a kind of an authority, an important factor in how people make decisions. Which is far more important than for instance a language of responsibility or obligation or loyalty those are actually far less intelligible in the way people talk about their experiences.

586
01:44:46.000 --> 01:45:01.000
Emotions are much more important and yeah prioritized in how people make decisions. So for me then as a researcher is important and is it becomes interesting what does this emotion and the emphasis on emotion do.

587
01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:10.000
About does it enable for people, what does it exclude? I hope this answers your question.

588
01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:15.000
Thank you. Google.

589
01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:25.000
So that's a that's a very very good question. So if I understood correctly you asked that maybe the to get the difference between men and women in terms of the number of close friends that maybe.

590
01:45:25.000 --> 01:45:39.000
Men would be somehow more willing to share that they have cause strength because that for them we are flirting so that's that's social value worry for a woman they would have stigma and they would like they would not like to discuss too much of that.

591
01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:50.000
Yes, that was a big risk and that was one of the reason why during the quantitative survey. I can't with the research assistance we clearly mentioned from the beginning.

592
01:45:50.000 --> 01:46:07.000
That we were not talking about romantic friendship. And this was to avoid this possible bias. Second, most of the friendship actually disclosed the close action is closed by the residents were same-sex friendships.

593
01:46:07.000 --> 01:46:14.000
So I'm assuming that men will proud to display that they had a very big fringing capacity.

594
01:46:14.000 --> 01:46:26.000
It did not show too much in the study. Now what is very interesting is that we I also measured I also ask object if people had friends from the other sex.

595
01:46:26.000 --> 01:46:32.000
And there interestingly, 60% of the men said yes. I have a friend with a mate.

596
01:46:32.000 --> 01:46:40.000
Between 30% of men said that they had a friend was a woman. And I interpret it in a manner that and women were more maybe more, capable of recognizing friendship for what it is with men.

597
01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:59.000
I on the opposite. Men often when viewed their relationship with the woman not through the lens of friendship at maybe the more romantic and therefore they did not discuss it in the sense.

598
01:46:59.000 --> 01:47:09.000
But you use a very important word to use the word stigma. And yes stigma. He's definitely the reason why it's definitely one of the elements.

599
01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:14.000
Why there is such a big difference between them and more. That's not the stigma related to romance.

600
01:47:14.000 --> 01:47:29.000
It's the stigma related to to social responsibilities. In the survey, I asked. People is it do you consider that it is a waste of time for a woman.

601
01:47:29.000 --> 01:47:36.000
Just spend time with friends and you consider that it's a waste of time for men. Just spend time with friends.

602
01:47:36.000 --> 01:47:44.000
And over we, I mean most of the men and women more than 50% said that it was a waste of time for women.

603
01:47:44.000 --> 01:47:56.000
To spend. Because most the main responsibilities are at home to take care of the household. Friendship, female friendship is was still viewed as a waste of time.

604
01:47:56.000 --> 01:48:05.000
So this is the stigma which I believe plays a big role in explaining this gender gas.

605
01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:06.000
Okay, thank you so much. There's still one question in room. I don't know.

606
01:48:06.000 --> 01:48:23.000
There's still one question in room. I don't know. It's short one. Please come because actually we are running out of time so very fast.

607
01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:35.000
So Escape. Hi, thank you very much. It's 12 for your presentations. It's just a question about that you said, well, for your presentations.

608
01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:40.000
It's just a question about that you said that this is just a question about that you said that the reproduction of eternity relationships can produce.

609
01:48:40.000 --> 01:49:03.000
It's reproduce also sometimes in same-sex couples. And I want to ask you if you think that the how this reproduction of normative relationships can also portray a role in the power relationship or as symmetry of power inside a gay couple.

610
01:49:03.000 --> 01:49:13.000
For concept. Oh. Thanks so much for your question. It's actually I prefer not to talk about heteronormative.

611
01:49:13.000 --> 01:49:28.000
Because I think it has some viruses. I use more the idea of atrocentric and hetero more Fism from Ganyon and past it all related to thing but the question of power It's a great question.

612
01:49:28.000 --> 01:49:35.000
Then we can discuss properly. But I don't think this is a fixed power or a fixture properly.

613
01:49:35.000 --> 01:49:45.000
But I don't think this is a fixed power or a fixed inequality relationship is a fixed power or a fixed inequality relationship because most of the times in heterosexual couples it's explained most of the inequality relationship because most of the times in heterosexual couples it's explained most of the times I can repeat

614
01:49:45.000 --> 01:49:48.000
with the idea of the men having more power over women. We've explained most of the times, I can repeat, with the idea of the men having more power over women having more power over women.

615
01:49:48.000 --> 01:49:49.000
Well, we have like the idea of the men having more power over women. Well, we have more power over women.

616
01:49:49.000 --> 01:50:02.000
Well, we have same sex couples, it's like what happens here. But what I was able to see is that There are like mechanisms of symmetrization and asymmetrization or equalization and equalization that are changing and are fluid and it's not something stable.

617
01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:12.000
It's not that someone has most power in the entire relationship or in iteration of the relationship, but it changes according to different practices and so on.

618
01:50:12.000 --> 01:50:25.000
Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm sorry, we really have to finish now because the people from the second session, we really have to finish now because the people from the second session are arriving we really have to finish now because the people from the second session are arriving in the room I thank you so much because the people from the second session are arriving in

619
01:50:25.000 --> 01:50:31.000
the because the people from the second session are arriving in the room. I thank you so, so much.

620
01:50:31.000 --> 01:50:36.000
All the speakers, audience and on the room. I thank you so, so much. all the speakers, audience and, on-site and the room. I thank you so, so much. All the speakers, audience and on site and online.

621
01:50:36.000 --> 01:50:39.000
It was a lovely, lovely panel.

622
01:50:39.000 --> 01:50:43.000
Oh. Bye, Raheel and Ukko. Thank you so much. We were wonderful papers.