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 welcome, everybody, and my name is Andrew Spool. I'm the one of the associate treasurers of our C. O. 5. I'm a pretend sociologist. despite what it says in the program I'm I'm only partially involved with or to university, but I am a sociologist and social epidemiologist, working in the private sector in my own company.

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I'd like to acknowledge Christina Gomez as the organizer

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of the session for you all today.

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and I'd also like to acknowledge that we're on the land

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where the we're in jury of the people of the colon nation, and the bundle wrong, or the wider and and wrong nation are the traditional owners, and have never ceded sovereignty or ownership of this land. I acknowledge and respect their elders, past and present, and the elite leaders passed an emerging and future

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so

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we have nominally 5 sessions today. And if Nikolai is in the room we will have 5 as Nikolai here. Okay, So we've now got 4 sessions today, and those 4 sessions 2 of which will be remote. And 2 of them will be in person.

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The format for today is that there will be

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15 min for each presentation and 3 min. I'll give one little tap

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on a glass, and at

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1 min I'll give 2 little 2 little taps, and then I'll give

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3 taps with you for When the 15 min is up.

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Following that we'll have 2 questions from the floor. if there are more discussion, then if we keep it to 15 min. But 2 questions, then we can have a combined discussion at the end of the presentations, because we might finish a little bit early if we've only got before

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so

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given that Nicholas Zakadov hasn't been able to make it with for his talk about futures of anti racism.

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We're going to

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moved directly into

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the talk by, but

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in a vagueze

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from Princeton Theological Seminary in the United States.

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Give me a moment, boomers and tick. So we'll see.

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Right?

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Okay, I just need to

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mute.

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Since the mute control gone!

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Oops help it! Can you? Just trying to meet

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the mute, mute buttons just disappeared? How do we get the

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control back?

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So?

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yeah, cool.

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These were okay. It's on what I do

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right over to you.

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Been it over to you.

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Binu Varghese: Oh, I'm I'm sorry. I thought. Somebody else is playing ahead of me. Oh, it they they were, but there were no show. So

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Binu Varghese: okay, thank you. Can I see my slides? Do you have my slice with you.

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Binu Varghese: Can you all hear me?

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Binu Varghese: Okay.

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Binu Varghese: I don't. I can share my screen. It's not a big deal.

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I you yep.

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What's happened again?

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Okay.

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yeah. Are you able to see your spring? You know.

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Binu Varghese: I'm not able to see it.

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Chester.

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The you share screen.

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How's that any better?

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Binu Varghese: Oh, okay, so let me, okay, let me share my screen real quick.

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Yep, please.

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Binu Varghese: Okay. Yep. See that. Thank you. thank you.

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Binu Varghese: In the year of 1992. On December morning I was watching TV news at my neighbor's house when I saw a number of people at the hinge of the mustache in Iodia, India.

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Binu Varghese: They were raving saffron flags and shouting slogans in frame favor of visual Hindu Persian that is the Vhp

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Binu Varghese:  as as in the worst of Lal Krishna, Eduani.

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Binu Varghese: Who you can see right here. move, or we will crush you after the have this ratio or the chariot journey

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Binu Varghese: which actually started which ended at the iodia It culminated the horrific act of Barri. Must it demolition?

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Binu Varghese: It was indeed a watershed moment for normalization of hatred between Hindus and Muslims in India ensuing myriad acts of commuter violence. One major figure among these people who demolished the mustard or the mosque was the Ranger Modi who you can see right here where my mouse is.

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Binu Varghese: who has Who was seen in the breadth after us, and accomplished Joe Bideni Modi, the current Prime Minister of India, and his compatriot, succeeded in the legacy of hatred, bigotry, and violence from the leaders of V Jp. The political party and could they construe significant violations of India? India's constitution and public consciousness?

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Binu Varghese:  the impulse of writing this paper, or or presenting this essay came from the book called India, that is, part of written by side Debuk, a Supreme Court lawyer in India, who sold millions of copies of this book. What surprised me was the enforcement from Walter Magnolo a world renowned D colony and thinker, who radicalized the first of discourses on coloniality and modernity.

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Binu Varghese: He noted in his book. The Coloniality doesn't propose to a return to a pristine past, but the reconstitutions and restitutions in the present reconstitutions required dwelling and thinking in the borders between rounder local languages.

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Binu Varghese: sorry I grounded local languages.

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Binu Varghese: memories, and practices of living that cannot be supplanted by languages, memories, and and for and local histories. This is the argument that side debug bills, and and this is the words of Magnolo himself.

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Binu Varghese: I'm prone to question the legitimacy of being known as endorsement. I claims, in support of debug, if not corresponding to pristine past. What is the decolonial thinkers proposed? Restitution based on is the colonization only based from based on emancipation from foreign history, or really what is extent to of this foreign local coalition that supports coloniality, modernity. My main argument,

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Binu Varghese: of the paper is current. Indian political discourses and vision, a politically homogenized State under the governance of Hindu to ideal

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Binu Varghese: the radicality of Hindu twice to reconstruct and restitute ontological epistemological rootedness of index civilization and consciousness. It challenges their destitution. The name of modernity rationality and I'm estimated thinking it indeed calls for emancipate. Sorry, indeed! Calls for an epistemic deal linking

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Binu Varghese: from oppressive and embedded eurocentric notions of ontology and epistemology, providing space and place for employee versus explorations. However, all this discussions come at the peril of a centralized notions of nation consciousness, civilization, and religion. That office kid lived in reality so centuries of old centuries old moral and social conditioning

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Binu Varghese: also Western colonial interventions created multiple subjectivities and relationalities, interacting with with these universal notions of history, identity, and consciousness.

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Binu Varghese: Now, when we look when we critically examine the text of the coloniality which is which is per pervaying in India. To those the worst of Mcnolo stand true to his exceptional treaties on the coloniality. the application debug texts curtail any possible rescuers and name of Hindu nationalism. We need to ponder how decolonial to became a tool in the hands of Hindi to id logs.

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Binu Varghese: Considering the complex nature of the coloniality as an analytic practice model. In other words, we ask how to employ and employee tools and framework of the coloniality, saying close attention to the vitality and rigor of an ethical standard. It advocates

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Binu Varghese: the okay. these are some of the the current versions of translations. You can see or support for side debugs. Argument. These are some other thinkers from India.

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Binu Varghese: Now, I would say, this is a declining, a task gone wrong. Now that Bolshevik, Nolo and Katherine Walsh's book, which is on the coloniality, it becomes a target and plot of these Hindu to a readers. again, what Miguel and Walsh in their book. They say, I quote reflections on the colonialities from different continents, to retort territories and trans stories

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Binu Varghese: and from different trans local subjectivities, struggles, world views and world census. Most specially of those who are live and currently live in colonial difference, unquote. It can be called a cyclic theory practice model. In Wales's words, which is an ongoing serpentine movement towards possibilities of other boats, of being, thinking, knowing, sensing, living, that is an otherwise in the plural.

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Binu Varghese: the major locus of has been the de-linking from colonial metrics to power, to this, and to to engage in epistemic reconstruction. But now, when it comes to side debugs. book, we can see this exposition of the coloniality of being coined in the backdrop of coloniality, modernity.

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Binu Varghese: purging, indigenous epistemology, and ontology of India. We looked at Dulles, non-hindus, and other minoritized group constantly get otherwise and dehumanized. And this is the part where Debug tried to connect that to the the ethical side of the coloniality.

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Binu Varghese: you can see some of the tutorial response of against Mcnolo The promotion and endorsement of this book. I'll go faster than that. Actually. So I would say, this is a misrepresenting the the the Colonial itself.

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Binu Varghese: E. C.

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Binu Varghese: Any understanding. Coloniality majority was incomplete without applying between lenses of religion, and and the only way to present an alternative foundation for ethics was to adopt a decolonial approach, given the near complete hegemony of coloniality and majority on contemporary ideas of ethics. Now, again, there's a shift that you can see that he's he's completely of forgetting the fact that there's other minoritized groups and dollar communities.

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Binu Varghese: he's creating a disconnection between ethics and being. But then, Mal don't know to us, he argues that ethics is sent to Central to his deconal the the Colonial at being, or the the the zone of being. I would argue that there's people in India who is constantly marginalized to zone of known being.

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Binu Varghese: And when Saudi, because of saying this, he is forgetting the fact of the ethical standards that he has to employ. As to the colonial thinker in this model.

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Binu Varghese: he also argued side, the book is also bringing Anibal. Kuwano is a one of the pioneer, the colonial thinker. on the concept of coloniality of power. The book, writes Cuhan, a seminal contribution. What secured observation that the dominant, at least so call that state of society for Ag. Culture, not just into colonial power structure, but also the European world view.

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Binu Varghese: Now, this is this is anything. This has nothing to do with the with what the internal struggles of India look like. It's just based on Patreon cast color and other internal differences.

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Binu Varghese: Now he's also forgetting the fact that coupono talks about relations between members of the same race which are not not, which are no less colonial for Covano, and because they are the processes of social classification connected to specific and exploited labor formation or class.

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Binu Varghese: there's a study done by Lennox, Lena de Gado de Torres, who talks about Co. Kohano's work because colonial to a power is to fit throughout the world, irrespective of how the world. Historical trend was, and this is a independent

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Binu Varghese: off the Territorial. So it actually talks about the internal colonism that we need to argue we need to address. We can also see that in terms of the the new changes, the Parliamentary Bill, which is the Citizenship Amendment Act as well. Ca and the national public registry which marginalized religious minorities and other ethnically monetized groups.

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Binu Varghese: so. But the question remains the some of the some of the concerns about this model is that can be a centralized, the coloniality

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Binu Varghese: the coloniality to underplay some populations. Does it consist of reversing the players? So coloniality, modernity, and we can still, or we can still arrive at, deliberate you understanding of the coloniality at all. And or are there a new answers to this process. So, understanding this, we are, we are looking into France for non first, in his book on Violence.

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Binu Varghese: where he talks about very where he says, the coloniality is not an anti- thesis to coloniality, that he says the moral consideration is for everyone, and no one is indispensable in this process. It also means reframing dependencies against temptations to consider the coloniality as anti thesis of coloniality. This this reversal star intrinsically liberatorials, revolutionary for France phenomenon, if you look at it a little bit more

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the Colonial thinker, which is, who is Lewis Gordon in his book for a freedom, justice, and decolonization. He says that there is actually a fetishism

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Binu Varghese: fetidization of coloniality which is placing the moral self over the others. It decolonization from leads to no one ever being decolized enough, except perhaps, the one who possessed the problem of the colonization. The the coloniality being is a purest commitment.

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Binu Varghese: so decolonization for such substance of knowledge remains undervalued and UN acknowledged by Hindu to the Colonial pinkers. all the family Taiw from the Georgetown University. he says that there's a centralization of identity and the romantic notions of culture that are endemic in the colonial theory, suggesting that there can be no positive cultural mixing

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Binu Varghese: however-handed with thinkers firmly believe that there's a pre-colonial, grand narrative of index civilizations, identity and true that centuries of colonial rules have obliterated, they also deny any positive culture and mixing unlike what this motor and clothing of the economy thinkers is saying.

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Binu Varghese: And more nuance approached approach can be seen in Quuan Singh Jen's book, Asia as method, where he proposes that negating rhetorical impressions of nostalgia, of colonialism, 10 notes the internal colonialism that is, a plane is ex colonies, for example, India, which expresses itself in the form of racism, nationalism, and ultra Shavinism. According to Chen, to envision, a new culture, imaginary for decolonization, economics to Asia.

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Binu Varghese: Considering multifarious tradition, cultures and religions, critical synchronism, stance, and alternative. This is alternative that he is is posing for us. He says, I quote the direction of identification put forward by critical synchronism is outward. The intent is to become others, to activity in choralize interiorize elements of others into subjectivity.

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Binu Varghese: again, at this at this point I'm looking into the concept of d Brahmanization in the context of India. I'm taking that taking that from a couple of thinkers that is, One of them is Dr. Bron Baker. And now there is Evie Ramasami, who is known as Superior in Southern India. since we acknowledged nationalism as an already existing decolonial narrative in India. We look at

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Binu Varghese: I'm sorry.

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Sorry 3 min left. Yes, we look at extra nationalals discourses.

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Binu Varghese: How does this become extra nationals because they were not part of the essential core of Nationalist thinking in India? from 1,980 onwards there was an attempt by Hindu to forces to create a new hegemony. It aimed at the national consensus, based on homogeneous into identity. Now this is, we are actually dealing with a national consciousness from this a centralization of Hindu to a through unbeaten social emancipation.

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Binu Varghese: a major contender, the capturing, equitable sharing of political power in the backdrop of receiving colonialism. His national expression entail the sociological and ideological reconstruction of excluded majority. So his concept was this this belonging the concept of a kindred of belonging for people who are actually ostracized. based on the cast.

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Binu Varghese: he advocated integration. Nationalism, where social relations are liberative and egalitarian in nature that was internal amelioration.

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Binu Varghese: and also when we talk about a period per year, also was against any reminder cessation of our cake, or imagined the story greatness. He wanted a modernity from below. That means an essential social homogeneity in India. Unlike what Brahmin bravan i' Hindu to a forces for saying

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Binu Varghese: He was also proposing anti-colonialism with respect to Indian nationalism produce, which is produced a a transitive critic of bramalism. It's critics on nationalism in India was to board of any Roman station, as I included. to conclude the claiming the hinted to a way of being the glue of Indian civilization. this in she is a discussion reclaiming true sense of in the identity.

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Binu Varghese: However, these claims are too narrowly focused on issues of belonging this and nationhood, reliving the horrors of destitution carefully in order by global, the colonial tinkers, a dangerous suspension that can breathe sacrifices, affirmation and horrific denials of plausible atrocities. Furthermore, we arrive at the ethics of non-vi beyond ontological and epistemology. Goals in decolonizing India's present the search for the ethical hangs on the liberation for rather than liberation from

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Binu Varghese: also, decolonization cannot solely be based on colonial iterations that can underplay positive cultural mixing and legitimate culture. Internal engages through a comprehensive survey of indigenous imaginations, of resistance against coloniality outside of this maybe it was outside of the scope of this paper. But again the social vision of of

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Binu Varghese: allowed us to re-imagine reimagine the coloniality in this unique manner, nevertheless, a wholesome, an apologetic alternative for decolon access is still impending in the context of India. Since these, the colonial discourses are somewhat beginning and stage for fledgling state professed by Hindu, I idol is, they need to be more resources for effective rebuttals.

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Binu Varghese: Thank you so much.

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Perfectly timed. Thank you. Now been. I'm not sure if you if you heard but what we're going to do is a couple of questions in the first first instance. But but given that you remote, if we we might, if there are more questions than that. We might let it go for a little bit longer.

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So Are there any questions from the floor? For Binu

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does does one? You could. Are you willing to try the mic? And if that doesn't work, I'll just repeat the question for

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so so then it now we're going to be playing the mute on and off game here for a little bit.

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Okay. Hi, we know.

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Can you hear me?

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Yes, I can hear you. Okay. My name is Farid, alatas from Singapore National University of So I just wanted to. I guess I have 2 points. One is that

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your critique of

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bramanized Social Science or Brahminized knowledge.

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I obviously agree with it. But I just wanted to say that  since the 1,900 sixtys, 1,900 seventys. When when scholars in the

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the then in Third World, when it was when it used to be called the Third world were critical of the colonial nature of knowledge and neurocentrism. They were conscious of this extreme reaction.

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and they were critical of it, whether in a country like India or in Pakistan in some of the Muslim countries. But the term that was used was nativism.

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So I I I would urge you to go back to that earlier literature. there's a term nativism, and there's also, you know, very important notion of Orientalism in reverse, which was coined by the the Syrian philosopher. But this was way back in the early eighties.

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So, notwithstanding your your you know, accurate critique of these ideas, but I think it's good to go back to the earlier critics because they were. You know, they were noted. The problem of the problem was noted decades earlier. the other thing is I believe Miniolo did correct his times. Is that right?

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Yeah. Maybe you could say a few words about that the last thing I want to say is this. and this is my creep. My! I guess this is my critique of the Decolonial.

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that

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from maybe from the point of view of some people, especially in the West.

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Erez agmoni, the central problem of knowledge production is eurocentric zone, and therefore the central task is to decolonize. But from my perspective, you know, coming from Malaysia, coming from a part of the Muslim world, and my knowledge also of what's happening in India one.

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If you got rid of your centrism today, we are still saddle with many other hegemonic orientations

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andro centrism, nativism, traditionalism, sectarianism, and and many others. So, for from our perspective, at least in Malaysia underneath, we don't speak about decolonizing. We speak about the need to create autonomous social science, autonomous not only from Eurocentrism, but other hegemonic orientations as well. And I think that also goes for for India. perhaps you can.

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In fact, there was a paper on

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the idea of Autonomous social science that was published in India in the 70 s.

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you know. Maybe we can communicate about that.

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Binu Varghese: Yeah, thank you for it. yeah, I I haven't come across nativism I especially in once in a chance book he talked about nativism But then again, he was proposed to critical Centralism. at least in the context of Asia. So which I'm like I'm kind of.

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Binu Varghese: I'm I'm still wrestling with it. but I I do take your I a suggestion on nativism. thank you for that. And Rick all those endorsement he has rescinded the endorsement. He didn't really know. this was the the school of thought was which was propagating in India. So he he! He did that very recently.

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Binu Varghese: and but thank you so much for telling about the this other hegemonic traditions. and obviously this new, the colonial idea with a new colonial Hindu or the intellectual warfare, as they call it, is also pretty much hegemonic, too, so I I'll keep an eye out for that. Thank you so much for your

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and Beno, are you okay for a little bit of correspondence between?

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Yeah, sure. Wonderful. Okay.

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is that okay? By you. So you're okay to email Bino and continue the discussion.

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Yeah.

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okay,

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you right? Okay. So so

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Ben, can you.

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can you write this address down, please? And then email my address. Okay, I'll give it, I'll I'll give it to the questioner. So a dot

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S. P. Oh,

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l E

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at

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a U. C. K. L. A. In D at outside

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a c.in Z,

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so a a.spall@auckland.a c.in. Okay? Can you repeat the last part in it? You said in in Z or in Z,

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so okay, oh, got it. Got it? Thank you. New Zealand. Yeah. Kiwi.

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yeah. Google's your friends, too. So I'm easy to find. Okay.

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do we have any other questions for Binu while he's here?

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So how horrible is the time? Zone difference?

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Binu Varghese: Yeah, it's 20'clock here. Okay.

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well, we don't have any more questions from the floor. But thank you very much for your presentation. And yeah, and thank you for participating in the conference from from such a distance. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

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Right?

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Okay.

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Next up, we have

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an in-person presentation from Tikka Goatam, who was presenting a paper by themselves and had a tribute. I've got old eyes tributary and university in in the pool, and the paper is on Ethnicity, social transformation and changing delete hood in Nepal.

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Alright.

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how I get back

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that.

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Okay, thank you. 1 s. So I am presenting in the line. But earlier presentators had talked about the

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and only 2 than other things in the context of India.

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So my topic, to some accidents is related with the the idea of a social change or social transformation.

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And the transformation in terms of sending relationship between dollets and noandalists. So a transformation which is common to all societies in the world. And also I are in the same line that the transformation is going in the countries of Nepal as well.

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so as the core of sociology is. And while we are talking about the nature of social reality, we have to look at how the social dynamics is going on or changing over the period of time.

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Therefore, in the context of Nepal as well in the last few decades, the social transformation, our social change is rapidly going on.

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However, the pace of sense sometimes may be slower, or sometimes to some extent it would be a faster one.

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In the countries from Nepal, basically after the establishment of a democracy in 1990 and the piece of change or social transportation age a bit faster. This were in this context, most of the issues which are coming it at the center of the ethnic issues or ethnicity

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have to be talked about to what extent the the of transformation or change is taking place in different diamonds and

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a individual household and community Sp, so that we can understand whether the all categories of people they are remaining at the same position or point, or a status as it was before, or the gradual changes tackle taking place in all this aspect of their life over the period of time. Therefore this paper ams to compare the status of past and over the period of

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15 years based on a national level data. So while talking about the transformation, I would like to mention 2 people, one from India and one from Nepal, who talk about the social change taking place in the context of both countries.

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in the context of India, Jet and Singh, who talks about social transformation in Northwestern India during twentieth century and highlights on various suicidal transformation taking place in Indian society, and similarly in the context of Nepal. So it's an emissita we one of the promin. Such a largest and have written a number of things about the Dynamics of Netflix Society.

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And when a special book he has written about bodily, the Nepalisomas, or changing the Polish Society In which he has included, because rarity and some magic. Parliament! That means a

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development, politics and Social change in the context of Nepal. withdraws the attention of the contemporary peoples in Nepal, looking at the different aspects of the chain by relating with the gown, leg, jibbon, and sauri sapana. That means The rural life of lazy life, and urban dreams!

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In this line, therefore, this paper tries to explore some of the important key indicators in individual life that means at individual level, at the household level, and some of the at the community level and tries to compare how the change is taking place over the period of 15 years up into 20 years in the context of Nepal.

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So why doing so? The major sources of data that this this paper draws are based on national data.

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So the comparison is made between 1955 50, sorry, 1995, 96 to 2,003 and 10, so the data may seem quite a well However, the purpose or objective of the papers. is not to reflect. The current status of The different categories of people! That means it has to focus on

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how the pattern of change is going on, or how the so the pattern of social change is going over the period of time. Therefore The data, which may seem quite a wall! can also represent the trend of social. And in the context of Nepal.

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so based on some of the indicators. For example, looking at the household side over the period of 20 years. The household size! Across the categories of all people, they are gradually decreasing over the period of

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a time. That means whether whether the household size in the case of Dolly's, which are a so called untouchable people in the context of Nepal and other so called upper categories or upper class in terms of cast categories the there is gradual change in that means that means gradually slowing down the size of household in the context of Nepal.

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So the the size is important, because to upgrade the quality of life of the member of the household. They have to manage a number of things which becomes easier when the size of the household gradually decreases.

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similarly, looking at the roof of the household. which is basically argued that the people who are poor who are marginal. They they have the hands or extra root houses, and the people who belong to reach, or some sort of the economically prosperous categories of people. They are roof their houses by Some

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 jing type of the material or the a stone, and also cement or concrete group nowadays.

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And while looking at the nature of household group by comparing the 15. That means 3 different point in time the number of households or the percentage of household across all categories of people is gradually declining in all categories of people. That means the change is taking place over. That means across all categories of people over the period of time.

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So, looking at the even the the lith categories, which is regarded as marginalized, excluded, and so called. Untouchable groups had are received from 69%

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9.7% compared to Nandalit.

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And similarly, in contrast, the people who are often regarded or household, which are regarded that each one by having concrete or cement type of a group. Looking at the nature of Rupe from the 1995 to 2,011, the

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percentage of households is gradually increasing across all categories of people, including dollets. Therefore the sift from that from traditionality to modernity, or from poor to it is Gradually Taking place in all categories of people. Whether they are The loop! Caste! So called! Low caste group, or so called high caste group.

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and similarly looking at the income sources of which remittance at the main sources of household in the context of Nepal, how how does it look like while looking at different categories of people? It seems that the number of household receiving remittances is also

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and gradually increasing over the period of time, and that gradual increment in receiving remittance applies to all categories of a household, including

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dollars. So looking at the percentage in terms of the household receiving remittance among the it is in great by

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117.8 8% over the period of frame. That 15 years! This indicates that the access to resources That means income. Opportunity is gradually increasing across all categories of people, including Dolly!

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Similarly, looking at the status of poverty over the period of time the percentage or rate of poverty, red acros or categories of the people is gradually declining over the period of time, and the poverty rate across. 3 different point in time has been found gradually degrading in all categories of people including Dolly. However, the rate of change

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is quite dissimilar or unequal. But the main point is that access to That means resources to upgrade the quality of life, for the proposed, of sufficiency, of condemnation, of food and other things is including age, gradually increasing

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across all categories of people and looking at the reduction among the lead category, it is significant in terms of 31.4%.

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However, among non-dalit category, that is 0 point 7% in theari modes and yield cast groups

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and looking at the access to education and other thing which basically brings people to the public space and creates environment to to interact, to be the and non-ali people among Dolly's. And also with Dolly's among non dollars categories of people is, gradually increasing over the period of 15 years.

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And if we look at the Literacy, the 10 Among Dolly in 1,995 was only 26.1, which has nowadays up to 44. So it has.

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been changed by 68.9 in 2,010, which is which is interesting, and also the to some extent, what we expect to to change in the context of Nepal or in other parts of the world as well. So similarly, the literacy rate among all the League categories. that is 63.8%,

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and the rate is quite faster among January and a Muslim.

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Now, looking at to what grade the individual of different categories of people are completing over the period of time also seems that the average mean air of a schooling, or that means average air of a schooling has also been gradually increasing over the period of time. So Mini Ravi school in a Mongolith.

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It's however lower compared to nonetheless category. But the point is that over the period of time mean air of a schooling among Dolly is also changing by that means increasing in in terms of that means change by 13.3% in the same category.

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And looking at the another important point, because looking at while looking at the the dolly and non that the relationship in terms of what we call dollythood is particularly related with the mobility of the people, whether they come together into some public spaces and work together, they sit together.

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or they they interact together. the that for mobility is important one. So migration is regarded here as one of the indicates the mobility. So, looking at the mobility among dollies. There is higher level of mobility among dollars, because it is sending by 49.6 9%.

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And among non-dolith it is 13.1 9%, which is quite a lower among the case of non-dales.

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So Another important point. Why why do they migrate? Or they? They move from one place to another is an important one to to explore the reason. Why do they leave their home or leave their places?

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The major reason that we that we can look at is for a family reason is your lifestyle looking for the work, education and training and and so on. So these all indicators are basically for the purpose of transforming livelihood by coming together in different places, where, whether they work together, they take training together, or they participate in different education and other opportunities together.

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So, finally, another important point to look at the Dolly, and not the little essence, is about occupation which is regarded as the

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cast-based discrimination in terms of allocating particular occupation to particular

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caste group. So, looking at the occupational saved over the period of 50 years, it. It seems interesting that the the people who are involved in different occupation in the past have dramatically shifted their occupation in involving in other activities rather than what their ancestors or parents.

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We are doing the fast.

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therefore the major point. that we can argue from the occupational safety is that when Dolith and Nandali they come together in

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one workplace in one public sphere in terms of access to resource and an opportunity, the interaction that that plays important role in changing relationship between Dolly and nonetheless, therefore, over the period of time data, so that, Dolly, through these gradually changing. that means shifting from one Pm. To another, which we call a particular

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for a mortality in the context of modern Nepal. Thank you.

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So, yeah, yeah.

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perfectly time. Literally, you nailed it right on 15 min. Thank you very much. Are there any questions for Fatika?

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Christine?

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Yes.

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thank you very much for this amazing presentation. my questions are about your data.

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is, are the remittances and migration you talk about a national or international or both?

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This is one question, are they migrating inside the country or within and beyond countries? Yeah. Migration both within country and beyond country?

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So so one question. thank you for the question. One question is about, what's the definition of migration that. What Particularly the remittance is regarded as the money received by the household. Therefore migration, the definition of migration that captures both internal and external or nestal and international migration.

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and the next one is, what? What are these factors?

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Economic factors mainly do you relate mainly with the decrease in fertility

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that rates you indicated the number of children? No, in the beginning. How do you explain the relationship between so many variables?

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Yeah, thank you. for the interesting question. So so I'm not sure, because I am not. looking at what factors is heavily influencing or primarily influencing in decreasing the household side. but based on the other explanation that access to education mobility from the households or migration.

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and the increasing the level of education. And the other surfaces that they have is gradually decreasing. That means declining fertility. But exactly the factors. Which primarily and to what extent do they determine? is is not explored.

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I'm going to take the cheers prerogative, and ask a question. the some of your outcomes are age-related, like school leaving? Yeah. And like having children. Is it possible within your data set

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that your data sources to focus on, say, qualifications just for those who are school living age in the last 5 years, because that might give you a little bit more sensitivity about the

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how rapid the changes rather than looking at the whole population. So is it, is it possible to focus on just a specific age group for some some outcomes. Yeah.

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yeah, thank you for the surgery, since, because that is possible to do, at least in the case of the living standards are bad data, because this, the sample size is a bit larger.

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However, in this paper, or for the purpose of this paper I have. I have not to worked for the that. A specific category. So if we that means one to look at how the changes is taking place across the specific edge category. that can be done.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Thank you very much for tika for his really interesting presentation about the dynamics in Nepal. Thank you.

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We now have our second in person.

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presentation, and this is is by Julia Puiha from Iit, the Institute of Indian Institute of Technology in Rookie, in India.

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And it's on decolonization and de-colonial theory. a reflection from India with a special reference to Northeast India.

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good afternoon, everyone. I must be evening by now.

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Thank you all for coming. Thank you to the chair. My panelists, members, and delegates present here. So the title of my presentation is, whose decolonization and decolonial theory a reflex on from India, with special reference to no East India.

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So. My main attempt argument is that whereas decolonal theory, or from the global South, has gain strength, particularly within the discipline of sociology in India, it has failed to see the internal domination and hierarchies within the discipline of sociology.

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Now I wanted to start my presentation with a personal anecdot which is sometime back in day 2,018 and 19. I was fortunate to be awarded a post of position in Harvard University under the South East Institute.

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So Like the usual practice. I take appointments to meet professors working on South Asia, and that is the first time I'm out of India.

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So many of the professors, you know, give me this this response that you know I don't know anything about the northeast.

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So, being someone from the region who has been working for some time now, say the past 5 to 7 years. It makes me reflect, in a way, in terms of thinking about

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this politics of social science, knowledge, or what I call the politics of knowing and not knowing.

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 It also takes me back, you know, to the time when I study sociology as a student, and when I was doing my doctoral research, that you know sociology, or the larger disciplines of social science in India, have

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somehow neglected or excluded this reason, known as notice, India within the syllabus and curriculum.

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Now the crux of the the the crux of, or the question that I have in my mind is what is the basis of knowing and not knowing in Indian social science what explains the imbalance in scholarships, both globally and nationally.

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Now coming to the northeast, you can see it from the map on top. The

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dark, the dark portion which is It is geographically the sandwich between China, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Bhutan, and Nepal, and it is connected with the mainland part of India by a Km kilometer corridor known as the silicon corridor.

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Today, politically and administratively, it consists of 8 Federal States, which are Arundel, Pradesh, Assam, Manipur, Magaliya, Mesoram, Naglen, Sikim Tipura, and Tubery, in Sikh.

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Now. The States in the Northeast, unlike many other Federal states in India, have

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 Indigenous population, who are a majority in at least 4 States of the of the region.

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Now, historically, the reason known as North is is a colonial frontier. and

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it was It's immersion, or the term. The Northeast has a long history in terms of erasalized history in terms of being referred to as the Mongoloid fringe, partly because of the ratio, or because of the racial features of the people who are inhabiting the region.

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Now this Mongoloid Presidents continue to find resonance in post-independent India, where

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leaders, political the political class of India continue to have doubts about the loyalties of the people Loyalties of the people questioning their commitment to the Indian Nation State

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by and large. Since 1,947, the reason has been largely relegated as India's travel periphery simply because of the ethnic nationalist movements that have been emerging from the indigenous communities there who are demanding either sessionism or autonomy within the Constitution of India.

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Now, today much of this scholarship on Northern India has addressed the issue of political marginality in terms of alienation, isolation, insurgency, militarization, and and underdevelopment. However, an issue that has remain. that has remained. An address is the issue of academic marginality, and it is this academic marginality that produce and reproduce the politics of knowing and not knowing in northeast India.

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Now, I'm not going to to spend a lot of time on this idea of decolonial decolonial knowledge

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 one of the one of the thing about the decolonial theory or theory from the global South is that it is a very, very diverse movement that encompasses not only to theuries, but also about metadatalysis, but it largely emerged as a critique of the eurocentric heimony and dominance of knowledge production.

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Now there are claims that you know Sasha is turning south with an emphasis on Southern Turkey and in India intellectual movements, such as the Sabbath and studies, are known to have been one of the most significant contribution of theory from the global South.

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Needless to say that the 12 volumes of the Sabbath and studies in India have no space for the reason not. Is India

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Coming to the idea of India is a global South

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as my As our first presenter in the Independent. I have also highlighted Indian Indian society is hierarchies around Kas, which is a mode of stratification based on bird maintained to endgame.

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Now, in India the politics of knowledge has been called to social science in India, and debates on the question of knowledge have been about attempt to challenge Western knowledge in visualization of satellite science has been ongoing since the post-colonial period that largely attempt to critique and descent the he he hasn't made discourse created by colonization.

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However, today Indian academic ecology reflects the social hierarchies in society, where groups and communities, traditionally dominant, dominate academia and the academic institutions, as well as academic professions in India remain highly exclusive, and in egalitarian.

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Several scholars largely coming from the marginalized communities, such as the deletes and the indigenous, or who are known as the tribal communities in India.

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continue to argue against the in egalitarian nature of Indian social science, for example, the Dalit political theories, Gopal Guru in 2020 1222 in his article, how egalitarian and his Indian social sign argues the kind of Parnisus divide that exists between theoretical Brahmins and empirical Sudras, where caste here is enforced in Academia.

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marginalized groups, such as deletes and tribals, are reduced to mere size or data, with Brahmins engaging in theoretical work, while delete and tribal scholars are mostly engaged in empirical work.

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Now, this exclusion of this exclusion or disengagement of Of of of theories by the Brahmins! Has a lot. It has a lot to do with the kind of social structure that is prevailing in Indian society, where the exclusion of communities such as that deletes are less likely to religion, and this principle of hierarchy made the incorporation of untouchables impossible into the into the process of knowledge production.

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Now, another sociologist by the name. Tk, women argues that there is a cognitive Blake out of regions in communities such as the country's indigenous population.

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Now, a more recent article by by sociologists. Another delete sociologist, Viva Kumar, argues that whereas Indian sociology has questioned the European American domination, but it has not question the domination by the twice-born caste who will get control of the sociological discourse within court, as members, practicing sociology, in universities, institution, and colleges.

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and in the sphere of production production of knowledge while writing chapters of books, producing knowledge with the help of scriptural sources, or producing data from the feel. And while teaching sociology in the classrooms and code.

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So by and large, what we have today in India is, there is an ecology of cast purity and exclusiveness in Academia glossing over inequality and hierarchy.

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Now, what does this means for the for? For a reason like Northeast India. now Indian Academy about science and social science remain exclusive with underrepresentation of marginalized groups and communities.

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This is this manifests in terms of the lack of diversity in social science that produces a politics of knowing and not knowing, determining what is relevant and irrelevant. For example, within the curriculum to controlling academic publications, recruitments, review committees, and editorial boards.

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Sociological studies in India draws upon what is referred to as mainstream, or mainly in India, with a predominant focus on caste gender, which feel in case studies from the mailing

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academic work and theorization have largely effaced the reason, producing an equal knowledge and trip in power relations. This reinforced geographical bias against reasons such as the Northeast.

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Therefore, coming back to to my main point of my presentation. The jury from the global South has ignored an overlook. The question of internal domination in hierarchy.

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Now, I I took 2 flexive sociological journals to present my evidence

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before that. Just wanted to engage on. What is this idea of politics, of not knowing

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now the question that often, you know, struck me is, why do people conveniently say that? You know I don't know anything about the Nautis? Now I argue that not knowing is political, because the politics of not knowing is as much as social construct as knowing.

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for example, because of the ratio because of the racial appearance of the Northeastern people. Racism against the people, from the reason in metropolitan metropolitan centers of India are simply reduced to as due to ignorance. And hence it is all right.

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Or, for example, another case of the problem of not knowing is that inclusion of the northeast region in syllabus is required to continue the integration process of the Indian Nation State.

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Now, therefore, the politics of not knowing is about how certain knowledge and practices, outside of what is considered to be legitimate and mainstream are devalued and subordinated. Now

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this has 2 problems. One is academic knowledge of the reason remain peripheral, and according to this, the politics of not knowing is about ignoring and discrediting the knowledge produced by scholars from the region.

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Second, an act of eraser is enforced where the work produced by scholars on the reason are relegated as one that is reasonable and regional and local.

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Therefore, not knowing, is a political tool. This is particularly even in places and societies where past acts of violence and atrocities are committed, as in the case of indigenous communities in the form of settler colonialism.

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India's northeast has remained troubled periphery, but it is also one of the most militarized reasons, I think, in the world. It has, you know, extra emergency laws, such as the arm for special power acts that give the military impunity and the right to shoot or try to kill.

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So I wanted to just quickly go through the publication pattern of 2 flexive sociologies, or else in India one is the sociological quality, the other is the contributions to Indian sociology.

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I'm also a member of such a logical bulletin. Now Sociological Bulletin is the flexive journal it was. It started his publication, India, 1,952, and contributions to Indian sociology started its publication in 1,962. Now social, political bulletin till date has 73 73 volumes or issues, whereas contributions to Indian sociology have 56.

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So it is a go-to-place for any sociology or anybody in sociology who wanted to, you know, who wanted to establish themselves in the disciplines of scholars within in India.

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Now.

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I did a keyword search in terms of the nature of publications over the years, and in board of the journals. What we have seen. What I have seen is that in sociological bulletin there are 30 papers which are on the Northeast India, and in contributions to Indian social. There are 14 papers

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now it till 2,011 The editor of The former editor of Sociological Bulletin, has noted in his paper that there are at least 700 articles which are being published by the bullet until 2,011, and now, in 2,022, we can estimate, you know roughly that there has somewhere around 800 articles that it is that has been published that is exclusive, that is, minus the book reviews, notes, or comment trees.

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So 30 papers in total till now, and contributions to Indian Sociology 14. So roughly, it makes up about 5% and 3% of the total publications in body journals.

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Now.

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what does this say about the nature of Indian Academia? And what does this say about you know the way in which the sociology sociology is being practiced in India, so by and large one is that it is it. It depicts the kind of you know, internal hierarchy within, within sociology in India, and second, is that it? This reinforces a kind of geographical divide in terms of in terms of what are the kind of you know, sociological issues that are being discussed.

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So yeah, this is the nature of publications in terms of years. This one is from sociological bulletin.

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and this is from the contributions to Indian sociology. So I'll stop here. Thank you so much.

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Thank you very much.

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really. Thank you. Yeah. And

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do we have any questions from the floor?

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I'm going to

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Christina.

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Thank you very much. I'm very happy with this

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round table, learning a lot about Asia, thinking and knowledge very interesting.

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I don't know if it's a question I would like to

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her your opinion about as you are questioning the, the, the concept of the colonization. I agree with your

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your presentation.

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but what I observed that what we describe is the same patterns we observe in the global. So

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I don't know if you, you are talking with me about other countries. I think that this problem of reproducing power hierarchies

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in in in developing knowledge is the national and international pattern. Maybe you know. and that that's interesting. Because in the global. So

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what I think that it's an additional

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problem. Maybe

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A

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is also allergenics. Because when we talk about ignorance, cognition, racism, in fact, in in my research, comparing, for example, colonized and in colonized and colonizer countries.

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I found, like eugenics, is the predominant attitudes, and this speech and scores in the racist Perpetrators no of aggressions like criminalization, etc. And here I was thinking about you are talking about a region which is less developed

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and with less access to all the

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or the products in the publications, etc. So what do you think about?

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Let's think about egenics also, in this proposal of the colonization, because it was a continuous in the history of the global self.

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What do you believe

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of?

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Thank you so much for that question. It is something that I have not, you know, thought about in depth, but I would like to give a more

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a response to the first question or concern. I think that is more pertinent to the argument that I intend to make in the paper.

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yes. it's one could say that, you know.

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It's largely a problem. The domination in hierarchy within Academy is not something that is going to the global South. It is something which is universal. Now, the point is that you know the

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it is not enough. I mean, to me it and to my understanding. It is not enough to you.

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only

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eurocentric theories, or, you know, to critique the dominance of eurocentric.

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to to critique the dominance of the euro and eurocentric. You know hegemonies or dominance in terms of knowledge production, simply because What we call post-colonial societies or post-onial countries, such as you know in India, are not an equal society.

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and

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It is, you know, by acknowledging that you know these societies are not unequal, that you know we can, because to me what is decolonization without equality, I think that is that that is my point. And who is the colonization, and who is the economy that we are talking about? Because, say, for example, in India, even till today, politically speaking, the colonization has not ended for many indigenous people, for example.

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and the other way of looking at this is that you know indigenous people specifically in India, suffered from 2 kinds of colonization. One is colonization by the British, and the other is colonization by their own Indians.

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So I think this, this, you know, specific nature or specific structures of colonialism, particularly the dual colonialism that indigenous people face needs to, you know, brought into light. And until and unless you know, the colonial, logical, andized theory does not address this. I think you know it it it it's reproducing the same kind of hierarchies

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within the global South.

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MEUGENIA: So the second part of the question. I'm not very sure someone is going to respond in now. So I I think I need more time to think about that.

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Actually, I'm going to say there's time for one more question from the floor. Anybody?

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Yep.

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thank you for your presentation. I

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I'm very sympathetic to your argument.

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I think that if you are trying to show

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that there is this hierarchy.

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there's and that studies of the Northeast are marginal

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 You might think about going beyond the numbers. For example, looking at sociological bulletin and contribution to Indian sociology, you said 30 and 40 articles respectively. Is that right?

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Now? That's interesting, really interesting figures, but beyond that I think you could also look at who is writing?

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Yeah, the the articles are the predominantly scholars from the northeast? Or are they outsiders, you know, from other parts of India? Which universities are they from? Are they from major universities, or You know the not so major universities and the nature of the articles? Are they theoretical combination of theory and empirical work? I, the logic descriptive, then I think you get a better idea of the the status of research or writing on

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on the yeah

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responsible.

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Well, I I I essentially appreciate you that comments and suggestions. And I think I should. You know I will definitely work on it and try to incorporate it.

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Thank you so much.

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Given that that was a quick one to answer. I'm going to exert my chairs and period of yet again

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in our realm, indigenous people in New Zealand. What we did is we just started our own journals

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because we couldn't, and because there was so much we wanted to get published, and that was in slightly different and context and format and topic

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that probably wouldn't get published in a mainstream journal. given the issues that you raised. Are there any emerging solutions

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coming from the northeast from the peoples of the northeast. And if there are emerging, if there aren't what do you think some of the emerging? Some of the solutions could be

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for changing, changing the Academy to be more inclusive.

355
01:10:55.300 --> 01:10:59.999
well, thank you so much for that.

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yes, I think there is a sincere afford on the part of the indigenous communities, not only from the notice, but also India at large, to try to come up with, for example, say

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tribal studies or indigenous studies or adequacy studies. So there are efforts, but it's still

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very difficult. Given the kind given the head theorosity of the of indigenous populations themselves, because we are talking about communities who are in thousands and whose numbers and levels of development varies, you know, across reasons across communities. But there are efforts. And I think it is an a welcoming effort. But secondly, in specifically, when in the case of notice, India.

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but I think the last 10 to 1210 to 15 years. There is something which is also emerging known as Northeast India studies.

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Now I, to my knowledge, it has taken 2 divers and part one is.

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it is controlled by the State, and when it is controlled by the State in terms of its funding

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the priorities of the research and the nature of, you know, notice in their studies continues to be very status, that the people in the notice are, for example, indigenous people. They are wild, they are barbarous, so how do we integrate them to the mainstream of the nation? That is a very, very probable extent point. It has been critique by indigenous scholars.

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The other is that you know what if we come up with notice industries, then there is always a difficulty of being trapped in area studies.

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because communities in the Northeast many of them have transnational presence, such as in Bangladesh, in Myanmar, even in China, even in Nepal Bhutan, so confining oneself to to the confining oneself or trying to come up with notice in this studies.

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can also, you know, be a problem in itself.

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But In India we have something on this affirmative action policies. it's a different issue that it is not being implemented or enforced effectively. But if that is enforced or implemented effectively, then I think Indian social science would be far more diverse and equal.

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Thank you so much. What a fantastic note to end that on! Please thank. Join me in thanking funds for this wonderful presentation.

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We now come to our

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MEUGENIA: yes.

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our last presentation, and

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MEUGENIA: I could like to share my screen.

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MEUGENIA: May I?

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you should be able to do that.

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MEUGENIA: App.

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MEUGENIA: Yes, I prefer. Why.

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MEUGENIA: if if it's easier.

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MEUGENIA: I prefer to share my script.

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Okay, take take support, please.

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Okay?

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MEUGENIA: Oh, if it's complicated.

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MEUGENIA: I so

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MEUGENIA: so let us be.

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MEUGENIA: Do it with the slides I sent.

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01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:03.220
 we're all good.

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all right. technical issues resolved. Thank you very much. Tick people, apologies for that minor delay.

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So now we come to our final presentation by Andrea to Hilda and Maria Sanchez Diaz from the University.

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a Bicarno in a Mexico

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there is a handout available for this presentation as well. which is available on the website, and the topic is whiteness, racialization, and citizenship in Mexico

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of to Andrea.

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MEUGENIA: You you can see it.

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See?

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MEUGENIA: Okay?

393
01:18:36.950 --> 01:18:51.450
MEUGENIA: Well, good morning. Good evening. Good night. Here I am in Mexico City, in City, Mexico, and my colleague Andrea, which is full, is my student to be with us today.

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MEUGENIA: I am going to present the paper, even though my English is very poor.

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MEUGENIA: I want to share some traits of myself in that condition. My thought related to why that racialization and citizenship. I am a white woman, as you can see.

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MEUGENIA: I lived for 15 years in an indigenous now at community in the mountains of Mexico. I did my pitch in in Paris, and all this condition, my reflection

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MEUGENIA: quite there. Racialization and citizenship in Mexico. our objectives of this research.

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MEUGENIA: where expand understanding of the relationship between whiteness, racialization, and citizenship in Mexico.

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01:19:40.730 --> 01:19:50.549
MEUGENIA: deep in the socio-cultural construct of Widen as a synonym of superiority and linked to the universal national of

400
01:19:51.110 --> 01:20:06.409
MEUGENIA: our assumptions are that, analyzing the construction and reproduction of kindness, the symbol of privilege and superiority. allows a better understanding. The process of racial decision and the link between citizenship

401
01:20:07.100 --> 01:20:15.450
MEUGENIA: with prices. In the same way that to understand poverty it is necessary to analyze how well it's been.

402
01:20:16.440 --> 01:20:35.729
MEUGENIA: Mexico, focus on mystic ideology and on indigenous population, they omit the analysis of why the counter productification of this approach are at indigenous people. And now for this sentence is sentence and body.

403
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MEUGENIA: The people. The white people is the on my subject as a as a pointless, except then dB, do I?

404
01:20:45.760 --> 01:20:57.300
MEUGENIA: And from providing information about him herself. and so indirectly the superiority and privilege of finance is legitimate.

405
01:20:57.600 --> 01:21:05.630
MEUGENIA: the ethnic component of finness is made invisible, and therefore it is legitimized as a universal human being.

406
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MEUGENIA: We present these reflections that emerge from documentary research, empirical material that we have obtained in preview research

407
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MEUGENIA: interviews in various informal dialects of them between 20 or 19 and 20 to 2 out 22

408
01:21:27.050 --> 01:21:39.140
MEUGENIA: whose heuristic potential has been. While you demonstrate, they keep into account that we Andre and myself belong to this. Such a cultural environment started in these research.

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MEUGENIA: The axis of to understanding the of quietness and racialization in Mexico is

410
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MEUGENIA: in the category of mestizo. This is the descendant of Spanner, father and indigenous mother.

411
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MEUGENIA: and in the trace of trio your identity trio is the descendant from Spaniards, father and model Spaniards, but born in America

412
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MEUGENIA: under light. In the category of mestizo, which is the center of Mexican national identity, is the aspiration to

413
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MEUGENIA: quietness as a symbol of biological, moral, and aesthetic superiority

414
01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:31.869
MEUGENIA: as this center of the mess, this ideology, and is related to linguistic displacement and to force the Indianization.

415
01:22:32.040 --> 01:22:47.129
MEUGENIA: When I arrived to the into the community in the mountains. The teachers beat the children who spoke their own language in 63, that century in 73 and 73, many years ago.

416
01:22:48.090 --> 01:22:57.600
MEUGENIA: by hide, and in the so cave, or at the aspiration to whiteness, it legitimizes the superiority of Wagner and the heights

417
01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:14.979
MEUGENIA: quite Mexican elites, and we have We make. We did a research about that refuse to identify with the prototype of Mexican, which is the mestizo, because it means descending in social value.

418
01:23:15.440 --> 01:23:24.090
MEUGENIA: Discrimination based on racial criteria is denied in political speech, and therefore

419
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MEUGENIA: they they, they, the identity of the Creo, just had an ambiguous identity. During the colonial period

420
01:23:34.520 --> 01:23:38.440
MEUGENIA: they felt superior and inferior at the same time.

421
01:23:38.540 --> 01:23:49.879
MEUGENIA: if you're because they weren't discriminated by the Peninsula that people were born in Spain, they could not hold high positions neither, nor religions.

422
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MEUGENIA: and the stigma pay session of paid by the Anglo Saxon goals in the sixteenth century it was very important.

423
01:23:58.080 --> 01:24:10.689
MEUGENIA: and the theory of the generation that they created a European sport. In a. In the other hand, they had aristocratic aspiration because they felt descendants from the Conference

424
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MEUGENIA: 3 or us build their identity as Americans as a way to discuss themselves from the Peninsula.

425
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MEUGENIA: and for these they expropriate the indigenous culture to distinguish themselves.

426
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MEUGENIA: and but considering the indigenous people as inferior, therefore also they expropriate their lands during the colonial period. nowadays feel like second class fights in front of, in regard to Anglo Saxon whites

427
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MEUGENIA: underground, a underground feelings that need to be legitimized.

428
01:24:46.510 --> 01:25:01.130
MEUGENIA: These feelings of inferiority are compensated by specializing. This was a study by my colleague analyzing the relationship between white housewives and the domestic workers in the city of web

429
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MEUGENIA: in the

430
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MEUGENIA: and discuss themselves themselves from the Mexican. So they demonstrate scenario to their through white people, Anglo-saxon and European, and they demonstrate cinophobia.

431
01:25:30.140 --> 01:25:32.850
MEUGENIA: it towards the people of the around.

432
01:25:33.560 --> 01:25:43.799
MEUGENIA: We know that the identity sub no static, they are relational, and other markets, such as class specially added self perception and other percept.

433
01:25:44.440 --> 01:25:52.609
MEUGENIA: so very active process of production of high, that keys mediated by political and social interest

434
01:25:53.180 --> 01:26:04.560
MEUGENIA: and discrimination coexist with classificatory ability is related to the context. Whiteness is always subject to a relational and ambiguous process.

435
01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:12.270
MEUGENIA: This fluidity allows a certain social mobility in a.

436
01:26:12.680 --> 01:26:24.299
MEUGENIA: But the relationship between economic inequality and racialization is symptoms by the figures provide by the Institute of Statistic in Mexico.

437
01:26:25.230 --> 01:26:44.140
MEUGENIA: We said in Mexico that I didn't know money terms white, but in the upper, middle and upper classes money as a market of superiority loses imports. They be there by sh! My corresponds to that of fiveness and brown and dark skin generate rejection.

438
01:26:44.910 --> 01:26:55.040
MEUGENIA: We think that that I bought this an identity to having historically in politic

439
01:26:55.920 --> 01:27:01.470
MEUGENIA: in Mexico.

440
01:27:01.970 --> 01:27:07.870
MEUGENIA: But it's very important to observe the relationship between Widen and citizenship.

441
01:27:08.270 --> 01:27:21.570
MEUGENIA: City city is not Neil try a concept. It is some of our sexes, classes, and prices because it is a subjectivity. That's that on the slide delivery I state

442
01:27:22.240 --> 01:27:43.330
MEUGENIA: citizenship and cultural diversity have face great a hidden contradictions in Mexico during the nineteenth century. We received this and scientific races, that they coming from Europe, and which permeate the intellectuals of Mexico

443
01:27:43.810 --> 01:27:49.749
MEUGENIA: citizenship and races, we think, are the 2 faces of the same coin.

444
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MEUGENIA: a pairing that favors, and I I session in favour of what? Quite this, as it

445
01:28:05.610 --> 01:28:10.620
MEUGENIA: so, as we said, was associated with Mexican citizenship.

446
01:28:10.750 --> 01:28:15.760
MEUGENIA: The white population ends up enjoying exceptional citizenship.

447
01:28:16.030 --> 01:28:19.270
MEUGENIA: It

448
01:28:19.610 --> 01:28:25.549
MEUGENIA: the citizenship and Mexican is of the rural and indigenous population is in question.

449
01:28:25.560 --> 01:28:29.079
MEUGENIA: We recent. We have a

450
01:28:29.440 --> 01:28:33.320
MEUGENIA: situations. final thoughts.

451
01:28:33.480 --> 01:28:44.389
MEUGENIA: A meeting of this in studies on racing does not allow us to understand the phenomenon of racialization or the configuration of

452
01:28:45.090 --> 01:29:04.710
MEUGENIA: quietness as symbols of privilege and superiority, continue to permit the Mexican national. the prototype of the Mexican citizen as the under lion aspiration, the whiteness and for the day an Indianization.

453
01:29:05.610 --> 01:29:13.890
MEUGENIA: It's superiority. It can be Val and software. Your identity currently permits elites and the racialization dynamics.

454
01:29:14.140 --> 01:29:22.629
MEUGENIA: The false universalism of the concept of citizen favors the privilege of the high population and exceptional citizens.

455
01:29:22.890 --> 01:29:24.449
MEUGENIA: Thank you very much.

456
01:29:26.930 --> 01:29:27.650
MEUGENIA: That

457
01:29:28.030 --> 01:29:31.100
MEUGENIA: okay.

458
01:29:41.290 --> 01:29:48.399
wonderful talk. Thank you. And and and prizes for finishing well ahead of time. Thank you very much.

459
01:29:48.430 --> 01:29:58.789
MEUGENIA: I know. I'm afraid I I I won't be able to answer the question, but if there is, there are questions I will try.

460
01:29:58.960 --> 01:30:05.320
Okay, so on that. Has anybody got questions for

461
01:30:06.120 --> 01:30:07.850
any questions from the floor?

462
01:30:11.020 --> 01:30:16.270
Well, I might ask one. Then. I've done this several times. But the

463
01:30:16.900 --> 01:30:22.750
What challenges are they? Are they, as is the study of whiteness beginning to emerge

464
01:30:23.110 --> 01:30:25.270
with within. Miko.

465
01:30:25.380 --> 01:30:26.600
MEUGENIA: No.

466
01:30:27.020 --> 01:30:36.240
MEUGENIA: no, no! If you look for a data, you don't find the why did you do?

467
01:30:36.370 --> 01:30:52.359
MEUGENIA: You'll find a race. He's back for this, and that's the others. Yeah, there's the market people doesn't appear in the of of a a studies of racing in Mexico.

468
01:30:52.400 --> 01:30:57.749
MEUGENIA: We we don't. There are 2 or 3 studies about. Why, this.

469
01:30:58.680 --> 01:31:02.739
MEUGENIA: It's all just 2 or 3,

470
01:31:02.780 --> 01:31:04.400
MEUGENIA: not very much.

471
01:31:04.450 --> 01:31:20.790
MEUGENIA: One study made in a country club of Mexico City, which is a very good study. That is a lot of the Mexican aristocracy. Why, but a this? This is not a mainstream in the studies of racism.

472
01:31:23.440 --> 01:31:24.989
so how do we change it?

473
01:31:25.520 --> 01:31:26.680
MEUGENIA: Yes.

474
01:31:26.790 --> 01:31:30.700
what do we do

475
01:31:30.950 --> 01:31:54.670
MEUGENIA: as us our colleague before that is speaking about the northeast of India, the hierarchies they are there, and whiteness is a very important to understand hierarchy. This, as it does whiteness, as an idea, as underlying as it is

476
01:31:54.860 --> 01:32:07.030
MEUGENIA: that reinforced racism, this underlying aspiration, reinforced races. As I said in the the village I went in. 73

477
01:32:07.190 --> 01:32:09.369
MEUGENIA: people is where it beat the

478
01:32:09.450 --> 01:32:13.440
MEUGENIA: by the teachers when they spoke.

479
01:32:13.660 --> 01:32:26.610
MEUGENIA: They are language my son, studied in that school in the indigenous village, and he was beat also when we spoke in indigenous language, the other children.

480
01:32:27.270 --> 01:32:30.540
MEUGENIA: Yes.

481
01:32:30.600 --> 01:32:37.819
MEUGENIA: this is an example of a political state, political of the Indianization in Mexico.

482
01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:47.219
MEUGENIA: It was a a, a, a, a political. a a policy. the state, the policy of the state.

483
01:32:47.389 --> 01:32:56.430
MEUGENIA: the displacement of language, languages, a Ms. He saw the mess is a

484
01:32:57.010 --> 01:33:00.639
MEUGENIA: was not the the, the, the, the.

485
01:33:01.120 --> 01:33:08.120
MEUGENIA: the mixture of whites and indigenous people? No, it was a day. Indianization processes.

486
01:33:09.530 --> 01:33:10.309
Yeah.

487
01:33:10.969 --> 01:33:12.929
okay, thank you for

488
01:33:13.510 --> 01:33:16.659
another opportunity for a question from the floor.

489
01:33:24.340 --> 01:33:36.130
Okay, somebody's just walking up to a microphone. So hopefully, you'll hear it in a moment. I have a general question for all presenters. Would that be okay? That would be fine? Thank you so much. I've asked this question already. In another panel.

490
01:33:36.330 --> 01:33:41.749
I would like to ask. So we are all discussing here that

491
01:33:42.299 --> 01:33:54.949
the most sub-organized, the most marginalized, indigenous, and other groups in the global South are especially excluded from from knowledge production or from making their concerns hurt.

492
01:33:54.950 --> 01:34:01.739
As far as I understood, this problem really starts with agenda setting research agendas with

493
01:34:01.740 --> 01:34:25.300
a research design, with a formulation of research problems so given that a lot of the times, these communities like access to higher education since getting a bachelor's degree might be a very expensive and might not be affordable. How how can we restructure a global and local academia to to give these populations

494
01:34:25.350 --> 01:34:37.970
access to not be spoken about or research, but to formulate their own research projects. So any of the presenters I would love to hear feedback, because I'm also really thinking about this. Thank you so much.

495
01:34:43.740 --> 01:34:45.880
Who would like to have a go in that

496
01:34:47.080 --> 01:34:49.139
thicker? Cuy.

497
01:34:58.370 --> 01:35:22.260
yeah. Thank you. for the interesting question So The question is, is, can we understand in another way the the issue of equality as well? because equality in the sense that both the grooming the scholars from the marginalized community as well as the their engagement in the knowledge production process.

498
01:35:22.260 --> 01:35:48.969
So at at the moment or 2 days context. The only way of the engagement of finality or excluded community or marginal community into mainstream is is to provide them the opportunity of having access to higher level education as well as engaging them in the ongoing research projects in both marginalized and other other community as well.

499
01:35:48.970 --> 01:36:13.469
and the another way that both India and Nepal and other countries which I, which I have now developed, the probe policies and the affirmative action or inclusive policies they are. I'll see also the alternative wage of the incorporating or including the scholars from the marginalized community into the mainstream

500
01:36:13.490 --> 01:36:30.190
education and other scholarly activities so hopefully what you are raising. The issue of the equality in terms of marginalized in other communities will be addressed within the coming days. Thank you.

501
01:36:42.400 --> 01:36:50.999
Well, thank you so much for that question. I think it is a very, very big question, but at the same time very, very important. At this point

502
01:36:51.250 --> 01:36:54.070
I to me? I think it is both

503
01:36:55.090 --> 01:36:57.129
political and a policy problem.

504
01:36:57.280 --> 01:37:07.509
in a way that you know we need to have a more sincere and concert that effort at the level of politics in terms of Normans and States across

505
01:37:07.590 --> 01:37:33.590
and in terms of policy. For example, a reflection, you know from my own experience as studying and doing sociology today in India, where you know, there are certain groups and communities within India who find affection within the discipline, whereas certain groups and communities we need in in India feel alienated within the discipline. So I think it is, you know, a deeply sculptural. It is deeply intimate, and an ignition and recognition of the problem, you know, is.

506
01:37:33.590 --> 01:37:41.379
it is the first way to start, and, you know, create a more inclusive and safe space for everyone. Thank you so much.

507
01:37:45.190 --> 01:37:47.900
Maria, would you like to respond to that question?

508
01:37:48.870 --> 01:37:49.810
MEUGENIA: Okay.

509
01:37:50.100 --> 01:37:54.599
okay, no, you don't. You don't have to. But the the the offer is there?

510
01:37:54.650 --> 01:37:56.130
MEUGENIA: Thank you.

511
01:37:56.340 --> 01:37:57.120
Yeah.

512
01:37:57.370 --> 01:38:00.260
I'll respond because I've done it.

513
01:38:00.870 --> 01:38:11.449
Okay, I was the first indigenous manager of the Health Research Council of New Zealand, which is the equivalent of the Mrc. In the United Kingdom, or the Nih

514
01:38:11.510 --> 01:38:13.599
in the United States, or

515
01:38:13.740 --> 01:38:16.859
in in that Gmrc. Here in Australia.

516
01:38:18.270 --> 01:38:21.660
and the first thing is the time. Horizon is huge.

517
01:38:22.540 --> 01:38:28.829
and it was a multi-factorial thing. The part of it was developing the workforce.

518
01:38:30.000 --> 01:38:40.629
Part of it was having funding. But the most effective strategy was putting research centers into indigenous communities

519
01:38:41.180 --> 01:38:59.679
and making them have a governance model that was controlled by those communities. So if the researchers wanted the money, they had to go there. But they had to do projects that were determined by those research centers and those research centers became little hubs of development.

520
01:38:59.780 --> 01:39:09.090
of workforce development, of project, development of policy, development and to the extent now that most or

521
01:39:10.280 --> 01:39:21.050
a significant proportion, I would say, more than half of the indigenous research in our country in And New Zealand is now happening outside of Academia.

522
01:39:21.430 --> 01:39:32.469
I I myself pulled all of my research funding out of the University of Auckland. turned it into a private company. But we we still have accountabilities. Tribal nations now own research centers.

523
01:39:32.690 --> 01:39:40.200
Tribal nations are building data centers. And when we started this project 30 years ago, that was a pipe dream.

524
01:39:40.720 --> 01:39:55.669
But we did 2 things. We so focused on on developing a junior workforce who would then grow. And secondly, we started putting these research centers, just tiny little research centers to start with in local communities.

525
01:39:55.820 --> 01:40:24.110
And it's paid big dividends. It's really transformed research. We, in fact, we have now transfer, I would argue, helped shape the changing of science. And so we're now talking about sharing intellectual property. co-governance of data, owning data. a focus on equity in order to get funding. And some of it like that relies on the specific constitutional context of New Zealand, where we actually have a treaty.

526
01:40:24.300 --> 01:40:27.880
But part of it is about indigenous empowerment

527
01:40:28.100 --> 01:40:44.339
and building from the bottom up. If we tried a similar strategy from the top down, I don't think it would have worked, and, in fact, the very first epidemiological study of any type done in New Zealand was done by an indigenous doctor in 1,914,

528
01:40:44.490 --> 01:40:51.849
and, interestingly. it was about pandemics. It was about the smallpox pandemic in 1,914,

529
01:40:51.860 --> 01:41:02.809
and he went around. And he he was interested in what if what was driving the very poor outcomes for indigenous people from the smallpox epidemic.

530
01:41:03.300 --> 01:41:06.590
And he came up with the answer, it was about housing

531
01:41:09.050 --> 01:41:11.790
and a hundred. And

532
01:41:11.940 --> 01:41:39.609
do the math centre. Yeah, but about 108 years later, we're doing exactly the same thing. So there's a really good example of top down. Government funded initiatives. are not permanent and likely to unlikely to affect change. But what we're seeing now is the the beginning of the maturity of the bottom up community driven. research initiatives where communities are employing

533
01:41:39.630 --> 01:41:45.329
the research skills that they don't necessarily have to do, but to do the work that they want done.

534
01:41:46.380 --> 01:41:48.640
Hey? sorry

535
01:41:50.530 --> 01:41:54.520
on any other questions for any other speakers.

536
01:41:58.730 --> 01:42:02.420
Well, thank you very much for a fascinating session. It's been really interesting.

537
01:42:02.710 --> 01:42:05.610
And

538
01:42:05.690 --> 01:42:06.730
is that a

539
01:42:07.430 --> 01:42:21.779
not just making sure that it's not nothing appearing on the chat. so please join me in thanking Christina for organizing it for Bennu. I hope you're still on there somewhere

540
01:42:21.930 --> 01:42:23.180
the Puya

541
01:42:23.220 --> 01:42:36.720
and for Maria all the way from Mexico. Thank you very much for really, really and Interesting, interesting talks that have brought our horizons about about the role of diversity and colonisation in research. Thank you very much.

542
01:42:37.370 --> 01:42:38.160
Thank you.

543
01:42:42.960 --> 01:42:46.990
And that ends our our session.

544
01:42:47.530 --> 01:42:58.170
If you're going to another session and joy. If you're going to and out into Melbourne, and to the delights of the big city, really enjoy, and we might see you tomorrow. Thank you very much.

545
01:42:58.550 --> 01:43:00.000
MEUGENIA: Thank you very much. Do you.