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Yeah. Everything is okay? And now is the time to Open this session titled The sinking old Okay.

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Thank you. Now is the time to open that this session titled Reynolds and Futures Laws of Arms courses.

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My name is Gain Nogami, you know. Yeah, How's that? And I should say, presentation should be ended in 50Â min.

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And up to 20 I think and this session consists of 4 presentation comment and questions. So, maximum is 20.

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Minutes I think. Lindy, please give us some words. About the aim or purpose. To build at this session within to last 3Â min.

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Please.

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Right, I think, before we start, I just need to read the acknowledgement. On behalf of everyone gathered I pay respect to the spirit of county here in Nan where we are meeting.

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I acknowledge the past in the present Culin, nation of Rum Deri, Wurong as the sovereign people here, the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the Naomi original laws, customs and custodians, and custodianship responsibilities for county and the people and county continues to sustain generation after

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generation into the future for all of us. I recognise the important contribution that First Nation thinkers have made to sociology including challenges of our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all First Nations delegates in the room today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline. So the session really was looking at at debates around Old new and future wars, what is unfolding around us?

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And with the kind of challenges facing us. In this really rapidly changing geopolitical environment that we find ourselves in.

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Although the papers are quite diverse. I'm Jen will introduce the various speakers and the topics but that was the underlying caption to capture as many papers as possible in terms of the changes that we see happening.

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Thank you indeed. Somebody. It's my I think. Now, now that we are going to move on to the first presentation.

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And and by the soil parliament please start the presentation.

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And their participants. Good morning. So peacekeeping environments are often being described as asymmetric and complex.

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Therefore, the presentation examines how military leaders as serving as peacekeepers navigate complexity and adapt to it.

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I use complexity leadership theory and the adaptive peace building approach to understand the nature of the complexity facing military leaders in their operating environment.

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Both have complexity as they cervical foundation and emphasize that adaptability adaptivity is is a significant factor in handling complexity.

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Here complexity means rich interconnectivity, meaning that when things interact, they change one another in unexpected and irreversible ways.

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Complexity leadership theory is a theory for adaptability. Adaptability is needed to meet complexity.

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At ability requires 3 leadership functions. First, operational leadership. Incompasses, formality, rules, standardization and efficiently managing routine challenges as allocating resources.

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Second, entrepreneurial leadership embraces innovation, learning, flexibility and creates novelty that helps adapt to pressure or capitalize on opportunities.

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The third one is a combination of the first first 2 and it's called anabling leadership. This third leadership function ensures both operational and entrepreneurial mindsets.

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And that helps by creating conditions for adaptive process.

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Adaptive peacefully approach has been created for peacekeeping operations. This approach emphasizes locals and local ownership.

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From the adaptive piece building if you point it's important to give local people space and agency to engage with local communities and stakeholders and learn and innovate together.

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Adaptation means co evolving adaptation to local social systems.

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The military leaders interviewed were veterans of operations in Lebanon and Afghanistan. The informants were finished with Italy leaders with command experienced at platoon company and battalion Leven on peacekeeping or crisis management operations.

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To be able to understand how leaders act in and adapt to complexity. We first have to know what kind of complex situations peacekeepers face.

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Therefore, in the analysis, I concentrated first onto those complex situations and especially to the tensions that eliminate complexity.

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Based on this, I created 5 dimensions of complexity. I also examined the leader's actions and how they adapted to complexity.

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The findings reveal 5 dimensions of complexity in peacekeeping that impact how leaders adapt. To complexity. Structural complexity refers to tensions caused by the multi environments.

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Where peacekeeping operations are undertaken. Please keep us create secure and stable environments but also a facilitate local social systems to encourage.

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Self organisations, including good governance and development. However, these aspects of peacekeeper mission can cause tensions and make operations challenging.

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For example, incomplete structures and absent local governance practices increase pressure. As an external party working at the micro level peacekeepers cannot address local macro-level problems.

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The upshot is that peacekeepers have to balance and adapt their actions as they navigate the external and local boundaries.

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Funksal complexity refers to increases in the number of local actors and they axon logics. People immersed in a conflict have different roles and I identities and they motives are reliable.

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The actors can have political economic, religious, social and cultural dependencies.

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The tansin in this Dinensen is that the boundary boundaries of the agency are broad and dynamically in this mind.

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This interconnectivity can emerge rapidly into the unknown.

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The complexity leadership theory indicates peacekeepers must carefully balance stabilization and change logics. Oh, sorry.

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Security related complexity refers to peacekeepers working in environment. That forces peacekeepers to be prepared to face a threat arising at any time and from anywhere.

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For example, these keepers must prepare themselves. For military threats such as roadside bombs or suicide bombers.

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All the threats can be politically and idiotically. Motivated in ways that are difficult to identify. New technology and in this information can also be effective means to promote viewer's intentions.

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Threats are posed on many levels. And change constantly. So peacekeepers have to innovate in ways to adapt.

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To those changes, for example, Pi constant training.

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Professional complexion relates to tensions over cooperation that is based on a variety of stakeholders being involved in promoting security.

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Multin is no peacekeeping forces work with the local security forces to establish a secure and stable environment.

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Differences in skills and working culture between external parties and local ones cause tensions that must take into account.

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Few of them all within Maldives and peacekeeping forces. There is differences in leadership and military culture that can spark tension.

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If co opera is not to be undermined. These issues must be overcome by adapting to different leadership styles.

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And Neil L.

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Steering related complexity refers to tensions caused by duties and responsibilities that lead military actors in different directions.

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And by widespread expectations of what peacekeepers will do. He's keepers and should cooperate with the non-governmental organizations and they should establish credibility and legitimacy.

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We the locals. Hence they try to connect to different roles and attitudes to adapt to diversity.

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All this means constant reorganizing to find the best fit with the environment.

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To find his contribute. To complexity leaves it there by developing an analytical framework for complexity arising from crisis.

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First, the structural, functional, security-related, professional and steering-related complexity dimension create an additional element for the adaptation process.

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Within complexity leadership theory.

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Second, the five-dimensional of complexity impact how leaders adapt to complexity. In complexity leadership theory the adaptation is characterized by tensions between operational and entrepreneurial aspects.

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Leaders can create an adaptive space to form adaptive responses to address them.

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The findings of this study show that the operational aspect of peacekeeping consists of risk assessment, backup plans, rules of engagement and training and practices to counter the unexpected.

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The operational system demands order, standardization and control if it's not to be efficient. But in the peace given context.

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It also increases predict ability to help handle and foresee and fast-paced changes.

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In some, the operational adaptive response encapsulate routine work.

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The entrepreneurial aspect combined socializing, learning and innovation processes that drive for change. The finders indicate that socializing refers to the capability to understand the key local actors and their motives and networks.

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Learning points to the broad cultural historical knowledge of the crisis and local context. Thus enabling the adaptation to local social circumstances.

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Innovativeness highlights novel ways to address surprises.

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Therefore, the entrepreneurial adaptive response in which peacekeepers capitalize on the professional professionalism is an issue for safety-related complexity.

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Third, the finding also show that adaptive processes demand balancing actions. Balasin actions are used when the peacekeepers adapt the range of situations.

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Conclusions. The findings emphasize the need to take into account the complexity without trying to simplify the problems at hand.

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The findings also suggest that adapting to complexity demands parallel innovations taking account of local ownership. New leadership and the content of the complexity with all participants.

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Face in peacekeeping operations. Finally, the findings confirm that complexity leadership theory is a relational leadership theory that puts relational dynamics at the core of the understanding of leadership in peacekeeping.

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And I have published an article on this with my colleagues and here are the details of the article. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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I think, thank you, Sorry. Thank you so, sorry. And we should move on to the second presentation.

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Or someone's at the end of the session. And so, we moved to second second presentation.

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TALIU, MIST. Please give us a presentation.

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Good morning. Darrell Irwin My talk today is entitled to assertive foreign policy narratives in the South.

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Trying to seize disputes. As stated by the Chinese foreign minister in 2022.

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But equally, equally applicable to the US and to China. The great powers are in a diplomatic struggle.

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And. This diplomatic struggle also seems to dragged along a people's struggle like when I went to Beijing quite frequently in the 2,006 to 2,014 period.

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You could see. Just on screenings with Average citizens, let's say average peoples talking about the

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Actually, you know, see a little bit about the DIO. DI you islands that were contested with Japan.

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If you take it over the United States with the Chinese balloon. A flyover. We had a similar somewhat less dynamic.

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Reaction but it was repeated on our screens constantly too mainly thanks to the Murdock Fox News, Australian.

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Import there but but we saw it constantly. And then it's carried all over to business. We, we prohibit Huawei products and like in turn get I think it was Qualcomm or something.

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No, my crime.

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Prohibited in China in their business sector. So So, 20 years ago, the US.

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Council on Foreign Relations

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I that China How a significant economic political and military challenge to the US.

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There's the quote. However, trying to bring along allied nations to recognize that Chinese challenge On the other hand, the perception in the Southeast Asian nations is wild.

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China would be the new engine of growth in the region and while there might be some

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You know.

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Unequal relations in that. Those relations with Southeast Asia. So that's kind of what I'm here to talk about.

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The US and Chinese conflict. Dispute, I'll call it in the South Sea islands and reefs.

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Involving you know, what could be a major flashpoint. With

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Major flashpoint of a military conflict. Although of course we hope not. So let's discuss some of the recent South Sea China disputes.

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In this talk and consider how these disputes represent a historic carryover from the

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From the Chinese dynastic. Tribute system. That used to the dynasties used to enforce.

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Both diplomacy and trade with their neighbors on Chinese terms. Generally. The present and lead up and lead up all the way through the president's Southeast Asian foreign policies to manage these disputes over the islands.

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Chelsea's Island disputes can coincide with the US interest, however nonstated, to manage the containment of the Chinese military.

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And economic power. So are the US earlier anti-terrorist foreign security agenda has been somewhat has been displaced with by projecting foreign policy strength to forestall Chinese expansion such as their Belt road.

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Initiative BRI. Innovative strategies to confront the Chinese sphere of influence. Are found in, say, the US Chip Act.

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Trade tariffs. And mutual defense packs with Southeast Asia like Philippines and and Japan for example.

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This strategy begs questions about whether these Southeast Asian countries become are moving away from, traditional allied.

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Allies of the United States due to China maturing as a world power. And a further question arises on whether Chinese South Power launched as the Belt Road Initiative is kind of going aground in Southeast Asia.

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Let's look for some answers. Now the US is in a difficult position to maintain global leadership in soft power due to our perceived arrogance on the part of the part of the world.

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Over military adventure small wars that we've carried on for that the country has carried on for 40 some years, mainly in the Middle East.

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While China's made leadership gains. Its path includes this path includes a rejection of international institutions of global governance.

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And it has a heavy handed political structure. Dogmatic in the sense and the acceptance of of the of the ideals of the Chinese communist party and it has some mercantile tendencies abroad that have caused concern.

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Soft power while important is not my primary focus. But it is far more efficient in maintaining global leadership than military forces abroad.

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Whether soft culture, soft power. And economic dependency of the powerful neighbour China. Or a wary military presence in economic power.

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In the United States will alter the outcomes of the Spratly Ony Lens or the Paris cell is presently unclear.

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But China and H to keep its economy. A float, it grows dynamically we all know that so keeping that afloat means it needs resources, not all of which it has, it's insufficient land.

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And land based resources. So the BRI you know, the Bridge Road Initiative and the South Sinai cheese sees.

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Expansion. As it encircles those territories and builds military outposts. Those all.

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Bring in resources to the Chinese state. So in this presentation I'm going to examine, examine foreign policies of mainly the Philippines but also some in Vietnam to describe the asymmetrical power relations they have with China.

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So according to Howard French. And with the United States, according to how a French Chinese tribute system, which was applied for sanctuaries in its sea bound region had an natural order enforced by the Middle Kingdom, the emperor.

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Through diplomatic authority that loosely governed a tributary system, right? Each tribute. Terry would lead into.

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Further resources and relations with Beijing. Peking and it's this was north where this was southward from the Vietnam to the Philippines northward to Rukku.

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Kingdom which are Japanese islands today and times encompassed Japan and Korea. Malaysia. French the author carefully writes Raku traditional saying that They had intercourse with China and service to Japan.

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In other words, the Xiao Ti, the Lasser Kuw leader, said that if the kingdom offended China, it could explain things away.

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It would be punished. A modern policy framework begins with, say, in World War II and.

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Culminates with assertive foreign policy in the South China region. Drawing on the global rise of China and guiding principles you now look for or in China they they would look to the thoughts of Xi Jinping.

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And I think that links somewhat, Okay, we have to like once removed. The dynastic tributary system of the past to the true global.

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How are that China is today in the So taking this path, a Chinese foreign policy real as she Yin Hong's writes that she's got a, President Xi's goal.

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To give China a dominant role in Asia and the Western Pacific at the cost of the United States ascendancy.

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The West shouldn't think. So much about integrating China into Western liberal order, but rather to accommodate China.

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Yin Hong points to a future where the United States would accept military parody with China. And give China a narrow but substantial space.

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A span of strategic space for China and they are talking about the nearby seas, some of the islands that I'm referring to.

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And a loosening of the American Alliance in the what the American military calls the Indo-pacific.

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As both great powers I this region. The South China Sea takes on renewed global importance in this and must be watched by all the middle power nations that Populate it.

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So the Chinese, you know A few of us know the names of the tensions that are around these islands.

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You know, the 9 dash line that sits on a map that was formulated in the 1950 Si believe but we did but and and but all these islands have Skirmishes almost daily.

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Or near skirmishes, I'd say. So there needs to be some tension management in the maritime space.

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As the drums of war are beating. Let's look at examples from last year. This was 2,012, I think 10 years ago.

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No, I'm sorry, this last year. The cutting off of the

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Trans trans transiting in front of the bow of the US. Ship Chong Hong you can go.

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Here's the inset of the sprat lays. And they call it a gray island gray area strategy.

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It's not militarily, but there is a fleet of Chinese fishing vessels that are somewhat I don't know quasi military if you will they can go out in large numbers about 200 militia vessels.

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On the Spratlys in 2,021 led to this Whit Sun Reef.

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Incident. Up to 2,023 just in February this year the Chinese Coast Guard directs a blinding laser.

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Military grade laser. I should. Let me just back up here. Well, I'll get to that in a minute.

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Towards a Philippine naval vessel. And dozen of naval personnel were their neighborhood personnel are temporary blinded.

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When they attempt to resupply. A ship that's

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Operates as Philippine military outposts the BRP Sierra Madre.

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That's a decommissioned ship. So the Coast Guard, Chinese Coast Guard maneuver dangerously close to the BRP, 137 metres.

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An attempts to block resupplies to the BRP Sierra Madre on occasion.

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Speculation is the laser attacks serve as a warning to the Philippines because they granted the US access to 4 key military bases.

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To prepare. Military to to bring military assets into the Philippines for the United States. So,ologically, these provocations count and counters are symbolic of great powers, alignments.

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And incremental game theory positions taken by the great powers. Direct analysis must be further explored as as

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All of this has near hostility, gray area strategies have invoked a Cold War design that the United States and China are.

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Heading towards if not already at. And then there's perception on the part of the lesser of the middle powers like the Philippines that the United States may not be fully able to.

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Of be effective as a defensive force should China want to. Carry on further aggression in that area.

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So these perceptions are in Manila. Follow.

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Their own forward movement or a assertive foreign policy when they surprisingly I think to many Prevailed in the lawsuit over the Chinese violation, the Spratlys in the UN Convention Law of the Seas.

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The ruling by the UN Unclass declared that China violated the sovereign rights within a Philippine submarines within their exclusive economic zone, EEZ.

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Do you got to the UN convention, an island has to have this EE, exclusive economic zone. So when the Chinese are say positioning themselves on reefs that had no population, that had no trade or port or economic importance that does not qualify for EEC as you see in point B, constructing artificial islands.

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Going on.

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Then there's a flashpoint of the US Taiwan at support for Taiwan's

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And we won't go into that. Let's just say that they've war-gamed both countries of war games that the US only prevails because it has 50 attacks submarines otherwise extensive losses on the part so there is the quad arrangement that you'll all know about.

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That's the US Indo-pacific strategy in one word.

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That was. Are they employed effectively? Again, the Philippines. According to,

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The United States, they've foreign foreign policy, they, they feel they can sanctions, for example, Chinese military over things like purchase of Russian weapons.

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Which they did to the Chinese current think current Chinese defense minister and the response from China was of course the Chinese cannot accept the US taking talking to us in a condescending way while the Chinese minister of defense is under US sanctions.

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We don't want to look at the United up to the United States, at very least we should look at each other at high level.

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So. But the response in the United States is more political. Saber rattling if you will of the technological ban the and there's a host of things in in the Senate and House, countering the Chinese Belt and Road Initiative, deterring aggression towards Taiwan than President Biden's recent

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comment on President Xi, etc. I wanted to go into but apparently that 15Â min is up. Discussion of the Philippines.

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Conciliatory move by by new President Marcos there at the same time. His acceptance of US military assets at 4 locations in the Philippines, but it seems that I wouldn't have time today.

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Needless to say, These countries, as I found in former research that I have done in Chinese influence in African nation states, they would often rather pivot to assert their own foreign policy rather than acquiesce to the to the centres of power in Washington DC are in Beijing.

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So they would like an independent role, but. The honesty of it is They cannot go it alone and external events as most you know, of us who study power relationships and interest groups and and nation states, external events seem to be driving where the Philippines, Vietnam.

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And Indonesia end up in the great power struggle.

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I want to say that I have the last sentence I want to offer.

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The current scenario is unlike the tribute system of the Chinese dynasty, it's unlike the sea power of the United States that that that defeated with allies the Japanese imperialism in World War II.

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Though these hysterical historical legacies are maintained by both of the great powers. But in conclusion, the foreign policies.

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Assertive foreign policies are evolving in the South China Sea regions. Which is witnessing a great powers competition and where territorial boundaries are potentially shifting and where missteps are going to be costly for all involved.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for time keeping. And next we should move on to the start presentation by and then

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About this.

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This technology is working so fine. Thank you very much. It's a really happy to have you here because I think nerds like we would totally destroy the presentation absolutely.

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Construction of reality as a way of conflict. A project in my mind and trying to conceptualize new wars and new risk and I realized that my conceptualization is not perfect and it has some flaws because what I do not deal with very correctly is climate wars.

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I cannot account for that and also A big state rivalry is also a little bit difficult although I could say something about the topic that Darrell was talking about like China and things like that.

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So, so that that would be first of all. It is also a way to deal with the topics that Soily was dealing with because complexity complexity should be met by more diversity.

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So the way to deal with complexity is more diversity. So that's it. So what do II am using some terms that are not familiar in in this in war studies.

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And so that will be interesting in itself because. I was talking about inclusion boards. I tried to chat GTP myself on included on inclusion boards and chat GDP told me well this word is not commonly used otherwise if either you are one you are brilliant or you are stupid because it does not exist.

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So that was quite, funny too to chat GTP myself. And well, it all starts with the mode of production.

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So you can see that I'm still a little bit Marxist so it's the mode of production that is really important here and in former times we had industrial motor of production we had agricultural mode of production and now we have the mode of production of producing reality because everything that you see here in it might not be real because half the world

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is listening in by online listening. So maybe I am here, maybe I'm not here, maybe I am just a replica of myself or something that is a hologram of myself.

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Sciene Nepal in place you don't Trump is a president. Okay, maybe. Well, that's interesting.

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What is really interesting is how Trump has managed to define the definition of the situation. And he managed He managed that quite well.

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Whatever you can think of Mr. Trump but he knows how to define the situation. And that is interesting because That makes the world go round and that is interesting.

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We are always fighting for something in the colonial era. We were fighting for natural resources and spices or coffee or things that we did not produce ourselves in the welfare state.

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We are fighting for care provisions. We are fighting for money. We are fighting for the things that the state provides for and some people will be left out and some people will be left out and some people will be left out and also it gives you.

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Some people will be left out and also it gives the problem that some people are left out and also it gives the problem that some people are not really working hard and still they receive money from the government and things like that.

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This causes frictions in society. And so it is. Quite difficult. Everything is dependent on network platforms.

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So that is the new way that we have connections with each other. And also it is global and local and if you see where the conflicts are it's all around to in the world and in many presentations we see that conflicts far far away do impact our lives immediately you can talk about strange places but they do impact the way that

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our lives are organized. If only because of the refugee problem that it causes and the financial problems that it causes, our lives are connected and and that simply is a fact.

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And this makes it difficult because global and local It is a different kind of dynamic and and we will look look into that later.

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Well, threat perception in other times it might be nuclear war it might be the risk from from a ecological risk that those risks are really real and really large.

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It can be the risk of an unfriendly neighboring country that is also risk but at present It's more the risk of fragmentation and you can have fragmentation with and fragmentation from without because You can also be internally divided.

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And so that that would cause a kind of Durkheim anonymous. An enemy. How do you pronounce it?

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Thank you. So that's, and OK, the way that politicians are trying to handle this is by seducing people to come over to their point of view and sometimes it really looks like old elephants and strange donkeys and they are trying to sell politics to the to to the larger audience and while trying to manipulate it

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and you know Of course, we know when politicians say, well, you only have to work till you're 60 of them, the next time you will have to work too or 67 or 70.

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So never trust the politicians but they try to seduce you, they try to win votes and in this way they try to stay in power.

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And this is Richard Senate has also written about this this type of seduction. This carries a narcotic charismaticism.

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So the charisma of the politician is also like opium. It is like a drug. So it is making your head go crazy a little bit.

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And you, you believe. You believe in the politician and by believing in the politician it will reduce the it will make you more narrow-minded in in a way.

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This will lead to the flow in my presentation is maybe that I don't take into account well climate wars and things like that but we will see wars.

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Between outsiders and insiders. And who strive to to have a part of the state. So these are the the exchange relationships and of course the insiders relationships and of course the insiders the established the people who have the gains of the welfare state They try to keep out others.

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Who also wants a piece of the pie. And so that is the way that It leads to integration attempts.

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It leads to closure. So people who are refugees, they want to come in and people who are established, they want to keep the refugees out.

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And in this way we try to Well, to have this kind of tensions in society. Of course, these tensions are dynamic.

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Because this governance triangle as I call it, it's not something that I made up it's this this triangle thing is is quite old already.

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It started with Pythagoras as you know. As the method mathematician and It will change.

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This is dynamic because who were established once will will be outside this laser and it can also topple the So this this triangle can topple also.

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So the old elite can be the next. Sop abilities, you know, it can change.

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So that makes it a different. So this leads to this word that shed GTP has no answer for inclusion wars.

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So we we are In a way, the discussion is very much about who belongs and who does not belong.

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Who who belongs to NATO? Okay, that is interesting. Well. The ukrean, Sweden, can it belong to to NATO?

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That's that's an interesting question. We battle about it because some people are reluctant to let Sweden into NATO for some reason.

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So the reasons are obvious. Of course, but but that is that is that is what we are finding for.

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So this this model is very nice for internal conflicts, this model is very nice for internal conflicts, internal and intra-state conflicts, but also for internal conflicts, internal and intra-state conflicts, but also for international conflicts, internal and intra-state conflicts, but also for international conflict.

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That's that's the way we do. The weapons of war because every kind of work you know in the old times when we only had horses, in the old times when we only had horses, the stirrup was really a revolution of military affairs.

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And, the, the revolution of military affairs today is disinformation, it's everything that is on cyber and things like that.

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So Electronic things they can manipulate reality. This information is a tool, is a weapon.

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To produce reality If I can make you think differently only by propaganda or or simply by telling you lies that if I can change your mind by telling you light then I have achieved my goal.

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And that is that is the nice one. And a culture well This this means that The own culture comes first.

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So Everyone that does not belong to my culture is being excluded. So some people are welcome and some people are not welcome.

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So that is that is kind of And that can be nasty politics. That can be nasty at politics.

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So and that is It is a bit different than, big power analyses but I think we can accommodate and we can discuss about that.

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That would be interesting maybe. That's a. Dear Chair, am II am done.

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No, it's a we can't discuss. We can we can keep it for a discussion.

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It's great.

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Thank you.

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There is about 3Â min. We should move on the last presentation. And by the in a whole school.

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That's me.

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I'll talk about a different realities reality than the one when they just presented. I'll talk about some integration issues in NATO's collaborative workforce.

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So. In the dawning of a new era of great power we will and Russia's war against Ukraine in the sense of Europe.

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Has regained status as a military bulwark of the West. The alliance has been strengthened through increased civil and military budgets and new alliance members.

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For years, Nature's Plannings was dominated by questions of how to win military engagements against small or most medium-sized adversaries.

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As the alliances most important strategies now confirms this is no longer the case. There has been a significant shift from town sizing and expeditionary force activity to conventional war fighting strategy and fourth generation and defense and deterrence activity.

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This is clearly illustrated in Nature's recent Allied joint doctrine. The NATO capstar stone doctrine for allied joint operations and activities in which now the continuum of competition is introduced.

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From this shift follows a need for the Alliance members to coordinate and synchronize strategic objectives, mindsets and word-putchie procedures.

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During the last year I have been in research trips to a nature presence in the Middle East and in the Baltics.

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While each nature presence has unique traits, they reflect the range of actions and capabilities that nature has tried to develop over recent years.

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They also share problems as associated with on one hand. Adaptation to an increasingly unpredictable security environment.

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And on the other hand, strengthening of organisational stability through procedures and doctrines and shared cognitive and emotional patterns.

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For any large complex organisation such as a military bureaucracy. The problem of ensuring that it is constituent parts acts in accordance with overall policies as a central and continuing concern.

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So the specialization of subunits which allows the organization to undertake complicated tasks. Requires an equally developed system of integration to bind them into an operational hole.

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So NATO headquarters in more multinational staff, command structures and political, military and civil components.

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Their commanded by generals and a command team supports the commander. At the commander's disposal is also a wider staff organization.

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So in a division headquarters as the one I visited in the Baltics, the staff organization is up to 400 staff officers.

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Whose job is to manage the organisation and plan future operations based on the commander's guidance.

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In regard to coordination and synchronization of objectives and work procedures, some well-known organizational factors can be debilitating.

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The headquarters are characterized by heavy personnel rotation. A high number of vacant positions. People being sometimes under-educated and under-trained.

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National interest and staff work cultures and finally by alliance members. Competition for positions. Which typically overmatch the concern for expertise.

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An often overlooked factor for military effectiveness is the ability of the headquarters to learn during the processes of developing and implementing plans and operations.

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I think that a tendency in military status and the broader field of security studies to address learning at 2 analystical levels.

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One is an abstract and prescriptive level. As a fluid changing and effectively adaptable learning military organization.

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Another level is second order learning which is understood as learning that takes place between missions. In educational forum such as doctrine development groups and nature's own lessons learned activities.

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Or in the case of the US Army. As in institutionalised lesson learned systems aimed at moving knowledge from the battlefield into the wider army.

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To supplement this, I argue that we need to explore what learning happens on the ground or in the field within a given missing.

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This also implies a much more cautious approach to learning than the idea of this greater learning organization.

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So the research question I get, I, how do NATO HQs learn do missions and what are the types of learning do missions and what are the types of learning in which NATO headquarters and what are the types of learning in which NATO headquarters engages.

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They exist a huge literature on organizational learning and I have mostly been inspired by learning on the ground studies found within peace and stability studies, security studies at lion theory and more lately military adaption theory.

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More specifically I found it useful to focus on so-called first first-order organizational learning and found inspiration in the work by Lisa Howard coming from peace studies.

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So I understand first-level organizational learning as an integration mechanism leading to more effective military organization. I work here with 3 categories.

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Our first of first level organizational learning. This consists of the organization's ability to practice a common understanding.

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Of mission purpose, why are we here? To coordinate units and work arrangements towards common goals on the background of implemented standard operation procedures, instructions, so on.

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3 in gates the organization which sits. Mission environment. Such as a lion's partner's local institution authorities.

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I think I need to work with another fourth category about commanders in tents and the implementation of that going throughout the the organization but I haven't developed that probably yet.

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This study is based on approximately 40 interviews and participants observations in in the 2 headquarters in the Baltic and in Iraq.

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So the analysis shows how a set of diversely skilled people are working together. On a complex task or over a limited time period would provide several integration and learning opportunities for the system's members such as professional growth.

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There isn't doubly some first-level organizational learning or learning while doing in nature's contemporary missions headquarters.

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However, the analysis also shows a range of organizational challenges such as conflict missing purposes and goals, lack of expertise, innovation and task effectiveness.

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Over the members in the headquarters, this is And now I talk about staff officers as well as as high level commanders.

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Such as 2 in 3 star generals. Struggled to address the problem of change in overall policy. In Iraq, the mission changed over short time span from being a military training mission to being an advisory mission.

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In the Baltics the situation went went from building up a contemporary HQ to developing a fully capable war fighting headquarters.

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If we understand organizational learning as a change in the organization's overall mean structures and goals. In response to new understandings of problems and causes.

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It is significant in the 2 cases that different sections of the organization work at cross-purpose purposes with one another and that certain actions are at odds with each other and the fundamental narrative of the organisation.

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In the headquarters a large amount of time was spent on producing standards. This spans from the production of battle riddles to visitor programs to guidelines for how to use the different IT systems.

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Both new members of the staff and less skilled or experienced staff members can tap into these institutional banks of knowledge.

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Ideally, the experiences and knowledge of earlier individuals can be transferred to current members. However, there is no guarantee that lessons learned are identified and transformed into new knowledge.

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And as I would say, an inbuilt weakness in the system in which procedures and techniques are seen as context, independent routines.

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Which commanders and staff can fall back to even when unfitting.

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When nature learns on the ground, it acquires the ability to adapt to the change in context of war crisis.

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Lost the organization engages with its environment and invents McMechanism for understanding it. In the Baltic headquarters of the organisation and especially the Higher Escalon.

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In cases with central government institution in Latvia about civil military coordination. Responsibility and resources in relation to crisis and war.

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And with other nations armed forces who have an interest in fourth generation that brigade and division level should give.

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One element of learning lies in the division of labor of the use of force. Demand driven missions as the one identified in Iraq or collective deterrence and forward presence as the one on the eastern flank of the Alliance.

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Each has distinct features. Yet both are very different to the current operations Western militaries have participated in previously.

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She a shift from Cold War mindset coin mindset and now it's a much more boundless and borderless competition mindset in which cultivation of stretch and military competence and capacities are necessary.

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It is important to pay attention to the preconditions for first order order learning or learning why doing. One precondition is the headquarters, contributors.

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The bureaucratic mechanism in NATO that are in charts of logistics and hiring personnel do not function well.

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All operations rely on the willingness of Alliance members to offer well-trained personal enlarge enough numbers.

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However, often ill-trained personnel are sent to fill up HQs. One precondition for first level learning is trained, deployable people in large enough numbers to keep their operations running and to implement lessons learned to improve existing structures and procedures.

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Related to the challenge with headquartered contributions and learning, there is a more dysfunctional element.

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First order learning can have a limited duration and impact. Individuals within the headquarters may adapt and learn.

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But when they leave their positions or units of reference, The accumulated experience and knowledge sleep with them. This list to continuous organisational forgetting which may explain why my respondents repeatedly talked about we had to start from scratch.

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We had to start from the beginning. We always start from scratch. Or I had to get hands on my experience.

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That's also a tendency in military organization to transfer assumptions, doctrines, tactics, standard operations procedures almost automatically from one context to another.

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This means that sometimes the redeployment of any program will be in appropriate for the next context. And that if the organisation is to succeed for fulfilling its operation, It was at that.

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That was a little bit too quick. In most adapt to the new conditions through often very slow and time consuming first level learning.

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Replying strategies and tactics from one context to the next is precisely what was occurring during the long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

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He answered some of the changes to the lessons learned were implemented in training and education. Commanders and staff officers were bound to revert to what over conditions conditioned to do with other deleterious effects.

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So to conclude briefly. Since Russia's war against Ukraine. Nature has agreed on a new force model, which is planned to deliver an allied response at a much greater scale and higher readiness than the current force.

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Which it will replace. We talk about when fully implemented in late, 2,023. The Mould will provide more than 300,000 troops at high readiness.

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The troops will be commanded by headquarters, which must be capable of coordinating and integrating a multiplicity of functions over a great span of time.

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And space. It is necessary I would say for future research to supplement nature policy and strategy-level research.

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Would headquarters in people perspectives and how these involve in response to new threats and challenges. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, I just told the conclusion.

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Thank you very much. Thanks to all presenters. Well, time keeping. There is a plenty of time to discuss other comments.

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So I think that, Some word. All presentations. Lesonate each answer, I think.

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So present as Shoot, be, I would be comment or question each as I think. It is better.

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I think Yeah, now I now we are a proceed to that time to comment or question. Okay, so please start Oh, standards here.

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We found similar results when we looked at the Australian Army. And I wanted to become a learning organization.

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As part of their drive for adaptation and modernization and all those buzz words that are used. And what we found was there was a cultural structural See the learning because you know, regionalization.

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Obedience, conformity. Rights of the organization can function. This very structural functional Einstein and Learning was saying something that could produce.

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Disorder threatening the functioning. That the adaptive capacities in this wonder whether those sort of cultural issues we think are also your context.

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I say perhaps. Like the If there is an One kind of response would be.

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Of course I have seen some of the things and this is especially in And I don't know if you've seen it, but there's been a recent dialogue from about.

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About the material organisation. Where hospital I think and how you feel. To switch researches.

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Argued for the material organization. Which in which is in such a need I mean centralized through its bureaucracy.

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And you can't. Do without it. I mean, it's not something you can scoot, should be called a living or a legislation.

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They will say straightforward and perhaps in a lot of other groups, Swedish way. At midterm organizations can't learn and it's not necessary for them to in identical way or more in this quite at the at the snowcase where which is which is the way bureaucracy smell.

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And I said I even though the argument is anything I tend to because I come from useful song. I sent you to say this.

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Because we were proud of that to buy to the young folks. Oh, okay. And you actually do all over the world.

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They'd be fine. Shoot, they'd be fine to choose. Yes. Yes, they're in talent.

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They can walk and chew gum at

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Thank you. Another question is there.

334
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:15.000
Thank you from Casey, who was as soon as I had a fashion for soy. That's, very interesting.

335
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:28.000
Concept of an That is in between space and between And trenches so people will get bored. Do you have a real live example from your research?

336
01:08:28.000 --> 01:08:38.000
What does that mean? What kind of character? Skills and just enabling either in peacekeeping or

337
01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:54.000
Situation.

338
01:08:54.000 --> 01:09:09.000
First of all, and I'm talking about relational leadership. That means that, and it's not about,

339
01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:20.000
Personality or characters that people have. It's about what kind of relations people are and what kind of challenges they have in those relations.

340
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:37.000
And how they solve the problems and how they define the problems and how they make sense of them and how they I've put those things to a program as to understand and more holistic holistically.

341
01:09:37.000 --> 01:09:41.000
So I'm and.

342
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:52.000
Say the valence being in One, that's the most important thing. On a

343
01:09:52.000 --> 01:10:07.000
I am is in the in the military that is usually a defined personal characteristics. Allow, I mean, what is a good idea?

344
01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:20.000
And which means this kind of individual way of seeing person. This relationally music piece about that people are always in relation to things.

345
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:28.000
And, to issues to people, denial calls, etc. So it's a mole above.

346
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:43.000
How to be in those relations. How to and train those things and solve what happens. I don't know, yeah, Honestly, you have a question for you.

347
01:10:43.000 --> 01:10:49.000
Yeah. Because I was interested how then this emerged in, for instance, the case of the Finnish discovery.

348
01:10:49.000 --> 01:11:01.000
Do we have an example? Not just an individual but the dynamics set of relationship that emerges so that you can recognize them as an angle leadership.

349
01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:05.000
What does that move are you?

350
01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:26.000
Mostly, is appear in. Seeing stuff that concern safety. When they, faced, chances they've been more in in that context they were more capable and more greedy to use their professional backgrounds.

351
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:35.000
To find what kind of justice they have, what this might mean, what's behind this to see the most more realistic he wants.

352
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:42.000
Well, the other person was trying for some to do. So,

353
01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:53.000
That's what would be my answer to your nose. Seconds. Yeah.

354
01:11:53.000 --> 01:12:03.000
Lion's Festival. No, I haven't. No, I'm not. I'm saying that.

355
01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:21.000
I was just wanting. Yes, because The way II read complexity in the literature is II think the legitimate sense should be very prescriptive.

356
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:28.000
Rather than in his scripture. In the way that you will always find a matching argument in the digital art.

357
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:41.000
Meet complexity in So, and also how do we meet complexity here? As you said earlier, we needed way more than this.

358
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:51.000
Could we ask the question in another way and I would ask you like background or functionality of their service needs.

359
01:12:51.000 --> 01:13:08.000
Do you see any examples of how environmental complexity. Is met by simplicity. In theity.

360
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:38.000
Because those 5 concepts They are very they have fallen very much other fashion in that literature. And the Mediterranean also state that We need to leave all the traditional concepts behind because this is

361
01:13:40.000 --> 01:13:56.000
Of course, of course I recognize those concepts you are saying but in in this day II tried to leave them behind because they are So we'll use.

362
01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:02.000
Concentrating more on things.

363
01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:09.000
Nanchising and of course you are right in that sense that on those areas they always say that you need contest with complexity.

364
01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:22.000
But what That's an It's, it's not that big. How, how people, how many leaders?

365
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:27.000
Based on Leslie with honesty.

366
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:41.000
That's an, I mean, and another thing is that Oh, oh, how are they able to do that?

367
01:14:41.000 --> 01:14:52.000
I, all these. They're always enables us and by Jason and the and illegal aspects.

368
01:14:52.000 --> 01:14:56.000
And

369
01:14:56.000 --> 01:15:02.000
Yeah.

370
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:16.000
Please. Some Maya and on Dime question and

371
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:38.000
Or Yeah, I'm pretty. Do you hear my voice? I if you okay and question your question your question in your voice Is it okay or not?

372
01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:45.000
Yeah, I can.

373
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:58.000
So, I'm curious how, what what did the interview with? A set actually about those SOPs and regulations and so on enormous of them.

374
01:15:58.000 --> 01:16:13.000
Is this positive or counterproductive or is this? Okay, for them, they see this as an obstacle.

375
01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:30.000
Honey, they must do this, but, but maybe it would be better just to implement all regulations and not producing new ones and I'm particularly curious in what those commanders and interviewers said about it.

376
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:33.000
Thank you.

377
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:43.000
Thank you for a question. I think the closer you got it, the command team level. The more happy it was for producing.

378
01:16:43.000 --> 01:16:59.000
Coherent system of socks. And so. You see that that point is very, it's important to cross that and in nature they have and the accreditation system.

379
01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:10.000
It's called, where all the headquarters are held once a year and why they have to live up to certain standards.

380
01:17:10.000 --> 01:17:28.000
And they get measured typically also by not only the numbers but the policies of of subs and source. In a learning perspective, I think it's quite Let's say you have a staff, this officer being deployed for 6 months.

381
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:39.000
The 2 first ones. He or she has to know their whole system and they do that by reading the whole system and they do that by reading the established sobs.

382
01:17:39.000 --> 01:17:47.000
Then they spent 2 months on producing new stocks. And the last 2 months they start to prepare to go back home.

383
01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:53.000
So, so it's also way to get some integrates in in a system and and and so I don't see if you when we have the discussion.

384
01:17:53.000 --> 01:18:04.000
Status and health care. You can say that we have so many examples of how they work as council production.

385
01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:16.000
Because they do communities in themselves. And I think you could find the same here, but I didn't find that when I asked my

386
01:18:16.000 --> 01:18:17.000
Thank you.

387
01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:23.000
Okay, okay The next question you please.

388
01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:33.000
This question is for Darrell. I'm just wondering where do you think the specific nations themselves.

389
01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:45.000
Stand within the power place that you were talking about what can they do what agency and they exercise so they're not just seen as being passive.

390
01:18:45.000 --> 01:19:05.000
Juice in a power play between China and the West and you know where can they enforce an agency and all the sorts of things that you're talking about

391
01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:17.000
Yeah, that's what I wanted to bring out. Philippines quite a bit more than at the time was you know the There is a bit of.

392
01:19:17.000 --> 01:19:32.000
Leadership Trial and error what Works in one case. So, Dewar Tay, President then of the Philippines.

393
01:19:32.000 --> 01:19:35.000
Staying right there.

394
01:19:35.000 --> 01:20:02.000
He cancelled the joint military cooperation from the United States in 22,01720 16 and that was over a real minor and I in my opinion instrument where a Philippine legislature was denied entry to a legislator tourist in I entered in the United States.

395
01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:20.000
And, yeah. Where they just had this way of Can you say that, sir? My one Why comes up this literature in giving space?

396
01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:27.000
Sure. And then later.

397
01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:46.000
It's renewed. So they have that mutual packs and mutual Brings even he wants his role in John you probably and They can hold down as small consequences as we have great power.

398
01:20:46.000 --> 01:20:58.000
Somehow dismisses them as just an asshole. To Yeah. And so we saw that in the Philippines and in the Philippines.

399
01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:09.000
In antibiotics but but prior to US. Prior for foreign policy employment. We were.

400
01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:14.000
Terrorism efforts.

401
01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:25.000
Coming at USC. We're funding it. A certain time.

402
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:36.000
Regards to community rights and human rights issues down there. So many Philippines, great peace and they shooting and domestic.

403
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:48.000
So I see domestic and international balance that play to your of audience and that's what the United States

404
01:21:48.000 --> 01:22:04.000
Array of manufacturing municipal legislation. Is affecting you know trade. Larger trade balance is much in order to treat this large cell.

405
01:22:04.000 --> 01:22:14.000
Are you still wanna learn? Our culture farmers do that shot. Was just This is Germany in the United States.

406
01:22:14.000 --> 01:22:25.000
And then in Vietnam, Vietnam, almost every, since the United Nations Convention with the City. Philippines.

407
01:22:25.000 --> 01:22:31.000
Almost every country that That has an issue with

408
01:22:31.000 --> 01:22:37.000
Within that sphere of you know seawites and your time

409
01:22:37.000 --> 01:22:44.000
And their time.

410
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:54.000
Issue brings up that now. They have one card the Philippines to the table taking down towards the rules.

411
01:22:54.000 --> 01:22:58.000
Terribly important to

412
01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:12.000
Yeah, to see that they have that. And And so.

413
01:23:12.000 --> 01:23:25.000
CLO, was, the Chinese we're going to be railings. Philippines has in sovereignty as an issue along this table.

414
01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:30.000
That's interesting.

415
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:36.000
Sure.

416
01:23:36.000 --> 01:23:51.000
MI have that question for you, Burnett. I like your comparison very much between the production of a great drop products, goods and industrial goods end up.

417
01:23:51.000 --> 01:24:00.000
Production of reality. So you can say that landowners are responsible for the production of agricultural goods, factory owners.

418
01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:08.000
Are responsible for the production of industrial goods. I have not clear in mind who is responsible for the production of reality.

419
01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:17.000
But maybe you can tell us about what you think the role of armed forces during this process. Oh, production is ready.

420
01:24:17.000 --> 01:24:23.000
That's a good one. First of all,

421
01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:35.000
For production of of agricultural goods and land. This is an explanation of course for rivalry between lens or murse.

422
01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:45.000
And then you get this foliage circle, the rivalry that you have in history. The rules, the Army is very clear in that case.

423
01:24:45.000 --> 01:24:56.000
In producing reality then you get into more this virtual kind of what war. So what what ties it together is the state.

424
01:24:56.000 --> 01:25:06.000
As long as the state doesn't in close. And then, then there is a role, very stabilizing role for the armed forces.

425
01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:31.000
But it might well be that the armed forces are deploying more cyber soldiers than before because In fact, as I can see it's like what the armed forces are already doing in this hybrid domain and in information information information is new weather.

426
01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:43.000
No, this information. It's, it's also a new weapon. And that means that Oh, our armed forces built.

427
01:25:43.000 --> 01:25:59.000
Change and they will become knowledge workers. So the traditional finding that is physical becomes less less important in in in theory because in practice as suppose we still are.

428
01:25:59.000 --> 01:26:08.000
Very fighting is still very visible. But, the finding on this other level, this spiritual level.

429
01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:22.000
Fighting with symbols and with Simon andics is this old kinds of modern technology. So yes, the art forces are still very important.

430
01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:35.000
And they will, they will also, evolve into the knowledge workers.

431
01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:40.000
Just to follow up, Renee had this slide with the British government on the disinformation slide that you have.

432
01:26:40.000 --> 01:27:00.000
What promise the source exactly for No. But it's a very, it's a very recent, from the brain patient but I don't know the source.

433
01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:04.000
It was funny though.

434
01:27:04.000 --> 01:27:17.000
No, A quick follow-up question when we look at the Eastern Tribune at the moment and you see Russian and Ukrainian soldiers do trenches.

435
01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:25.000
And fighting on a Very, very traditional.

436
01:27:25.000 --> 01:27:36.000
What kind of reaction is that in your And, in terms of our knowledge and worklessness, that's where it's, it's terrible.

437
01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:46.000
Yeah, well. And maybe it does, that would be misconception. The Indians are fighting very in defense.

438
01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:52.000
They are using every tool that you can think of and they are improvising in a very large way.

439
01:27:52.000 --> 01:28:01.000
So if you talk about the organizational learning that they are really mistaken for the learning because they are really learning fast.

440
01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:21.000
And very interesting because You bring up my tactics and things. They are doing this thing that you saw in series from behind like that 18 that they are making new kind of weapons and they're improvising they have an all all thing from the Russians and they make a new tank, you know, so they are knowledge workers.

441
01:28:21.000 --> 01:28:30.000
And if you look at the workers and if you look at the soldiers

442
01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:43.000
If if you have been if you have a PhD then now you will be at the front if you see the proportional with female finders it is larger larger than ever.

443
01:28:43.000 --> 01:28:53.000
And then the Queen in English are deploying much more female scientists. They are much more fighting with their brains.

444
01:28:53.000 --> 01:29:00.000
So they are a good example. The modern way we're finding.

445
01:29:00.000 --> 01:29:16.000
In in a way that they they are the minority because the Russians are They have larger numbers. And but the Russians are not motivated and they are not speaking So there are not thinking soldiers.

446
01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:23.000
Lukrainius, at least they have the advantage that they are fainting souls.

447
01:29:23.000 --> 01:29:33.000
Send us. The Yeah, you see the trenches, but it is not foundation or war fair at all.

448
01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:36.000
That's interesting.

449
01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:47.000
It's not for additional water. Not at all. And I'm sure.

450
01:29:47.000 --> 01:29:57.000
That's okay. Trench warfare is nothing.

451
01:29:57.000 --> 01:30:22.000
Hi, any more questions here? No? We have Okay, no question Before having ended this question this session comment to conclude this session comment from the DID.

452
01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:29.000
Okay. Please say something to us.

453
01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:36.000
Well, it's really interesting when I was listening to the statements and I looked at the titles.

454
01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:41.000
I thought how hard they were, they were and how on earth could they sort of connect to the things.

455
01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:53.000
But if one looks at it, there is actually quite a lot of connectivity between these reasons.

456
01:30:53.000 --> 01:31:07.000
After the spun vote. Just leaders. Right, there is there is there is some connectivity between them because all of them to some extent are dealing with issues.

457
01:31:07.000 --> 01:31:23.000
Of Oh, inclusion. Who is being included and who is being excluded and the diversity in the dynamics of the complexities that underlie these.

458
01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:33.000
So we're looking at this at various levels of starting with a peacekeeping and the diverse and changing environment that they have to function and the complexity of this.

459
01:31:33.000 --> 01:31:43.000
And then when we're looking at the paper that was dealing with foreign policy and narratives, we were also looking at the issues of inclusion and exclusion.

460
01:31:43.000 --> 01:32:13.000
And the tensions between the different role players and power dynamics. And in terms of Rene's paper, we are looking at at how how these sort of changing dynamics over in a different lens in terms of of who in this new and changing world is being excluded.

461
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:37.000
And what is the underlying dynamics associated with it? And when we're looking at the issues of NATO, here again we coming up with a theme that goes through all through these these papers is the is the complexity of managing diversity and how to ensure some kind of integration to ensure cooperation.

462
01:32:37.000 --> 01:32:48.000
So that is my take as best I can on the different papers. But there is a kind of a broad underlying theme here.

463
01:32:48.000 --> 01:33:01.000
Of inclusion, exclusion, complexity based on diversity and how in the end within this complex environment that we face, how does one foster them co-operation?

464
01:33:01.000 --> 01:33:09.000
Thank you for everyone that attended the session and for your questions.

465
01:33:09.000 --> 01:33:24.000
Thank you. Thank you, Nedi. Now is a time to conclude that this session. Thank you very much for your call to the discussion.

466
01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:28.000
Thank you very much for your Corporation for my not good handling. Thank you very much for your. Thank you very much for your cooperation for my not good handling.

467
01:33:28.000 --> 01:33:29.000
Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

