WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:15.640 Daniel Marín: okay, but my, I will come to this session of the Aisa International Congress, Community movie session in Year One. And we're all compass. I would like to start saying, Thank you for the participant in this session. I will also like to say, to send all 2 00:00:15.650 --> 00:00:17.680 Daniel Marín: the people who are with us. 3 00:00:17.810 --> 00:00:24.190 Daniel Marín: Special thanks. Go to Timothy Gentiles team. Thank you very much for your collaboration 4 00:00:24.430 --> 00:00:27.350 Daniel Marín: in the development of this session. 5 00:00:27.700 --> 00:00:34.069 Daniel Marín: Before we start, I will like to read the enrichment proposed by the Congress organizer. 6 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:39.720 Daniel Marín: The place now necessarily compromise the traditional, the states of always 7 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:42.199 Daniel Marín: 200 Fascination language group. 8 00:00:42.220 --> 00:00:53.260 Daniel Marín: For nearly 50 years now studios have been basically formally recognized at the importance of consciousness of people's relationships and protocols for conditioned business in country 9 00:00:53.330 --> 00:00:59.810 Daniel Marín: recognition causes share all respect for the country and the financial and continuing connections to the country 10 00:01:00.130 --> 00:01:08.699 Daniel Marín: that's on the Isa. 2023, World Congress, 2. Which the quarter of protocols to be now to all and of serve it. 11 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:19.099 Daniel Marín: The country we made on for this war contest is colored. Nam, this is home of culinary. 12 00:01:19.340 --> 00:01:21.419 Daniel Marín: He's so well. Team. 13 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:22.650 Daniel Marín: Okay. 14 00:01:23.880 --> 00:01:37.150 Daniel Marín: We by session shares to acknowledgement the sovereignty and pay our respect of the elders, our ancestor, by staging the acknowledgment of the country at the start of this Asia. 15 00:01:38.330 --> 00:01:45.749 Daniel Marín: Please advice, attend the 16 00:01:46.030 --> 00:01:50.729 Daniel Marín: she will find the hashtag, and so many accounts on your own screen. 17 00:01:50.920 --> 00:02:05.030 Daniel Marín: but we in this assume by recalling some rules, and we established order. Our colleague team will moderate in person participants, and the English integrations. I moderate online participants. Spanish integrations. 18 00:02:05.140 --> 00:02:09.220 Daniel Marín: The order of presentation will be at first. 19 00:02:09.270 --> 00:02:11.079 Daniel Marín: then power prospect. 20 00:02:13.750 --> 00:02:19.950 Daniel Marín: But this Academy you have 50 min to to make the presentations. Later 21 00:02:20.270 --> 00:02:31.060 Daniel Marín: team will will common English intervention and I will do about the Spanish information. Finally, participants will be able to ask questions 22 00:04:34.640 --> 00:04:35.690 Daniel Marín: it 23 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:52.929 Daniel Marín: a while. Team 24 00:05:53.940 --> 00:05:56.410 Daniel Marín: what you want. Come on. 25 00:05:57.140 --> 00:05:58.690 Great, thank you. 26 00:05:59.010 --> 00:06:08.870 I'd also like to start by acknowledging the war. Andrew. People of the cool and nation whose land we're on right now here. and 27 00:06:09.370 --> 00:06:11.160 you know, I guess. 28 00:06:11.590 --> 00:06:20.929 Comment, that you know our work as sociologists in Australia in particular, needs to be a part of the process of unpicking those colonial processes. 29 00:06:21.050 --> 00:06:23.099 There's also a content warning 30 00:06:23.340 --> 00:06:29.640 for this presentation. It'll have some images of neo-nazis that might be confronting for some people. 31 00:06:30.090 --> 00:06:35.279 So this talk is called the curation of effective experiences of nature. 32 00:06:35.450 --> 00:07:00.300 The case of 2 far right groups. And I'm looking at 2 far right groups, one called Patriotic Alternative in Britain, one called National Socialist Network in Australia, and the groups investigated here are using outdoor events for a range of purposes like recruitment, propaganda production group bonding and fitness and acting together in public in ways that they probably wouldn't be able to do in a in an urban setting 33 00:07:00.780 --> 00:07:05.899 their activities are curated to appeal to and reinforce a racialized white habitat. 34 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:13.080 and it will see that it's inflected differently in the context of the Uk and Australia, and both groups have an ethno-nationalist outlook. 35 00:07:13.420 --> 00:07:21.410 Where particular forms of whiteness are central to their understanding of the nation so, and this nation has a spatial dimension out of the national landscape. 36 00:07:21.650 --> 00:07:40.600 these groups attempt to create strong, effective bonds between their imagined white nations and the respective national landscapes, and they see the connection to the landscape. Is, is it like an exclusive connection? It's part of a natural order? and it's under threat from these defined others, be they sort of migrant or or first nations. 37 00:07:42.810 --> 00:08:05.060 How do we see? Oh, yeah. So data from this project came from groups that both of the groups websites, including Youtube, Odyssey, Twitter and telegram, some podcast appearances by some of the activists, some media reported on their activities. And an and an activist manual as well and methodologically, I've used a content analysis approach. where? 38 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:14.640 where I've selected data based on, on, you know, groups so relevance to their outdoor activities and relationships to land and stuff. 39 00:08:19.630 --> 00:08:28.040 So I'm going to use the concept of curation to describe how organizers within these activist groups construct particular events for their members and their supporters. 40 00:08:28.110 --> 00:08:50.949 By this I mean the process of selecting and undertaking activities that members and supports participate in, and are used to project a particular image for the group, and the organisers curate a suite of activities on 2 levels. First the the sort of the event itself. So the in-person event that some participants are involved in, and then the sort of curation of the event publicity for its sort of supporters, and the general public 41 00:08:51.530 --> 00:09:15.149 and the far right groups investigated here engage in similar, you know, in group bonding activities like out to you, you know, outdoor activities which we're talking about today. like camping and hiking. And they're often curated together into these kind of practical programs for an event that's undertaken by participants. And these are activities are filmed and photographed. And this sort of I guess the images and vignettes with with added political commentary are curated to 42 00:09:15.150 --> 00:09:32.250 present a particular image to the wars and the general public, and this curation is designed to evoke effective responses from participants. So by invoking these responses in participants, organisers hope to build lasting and emotionally meaningful bonds between participants in the group and connect participants with the organisation's political outlook. 43 00:09:32.530 --> 00:09:33.450 And 44 00:09:33.670 --> 00:09:49.659 for these ethnic nationalist groups, curation isn't simply to build a connection between participants and supporters and the organization itself, but also to build an effective affinity between participants and a larger defined in group that of the imagined white nation. And so they are appealing to and reinforcing this white habitat. 45 00:09:49.730 --> 00:09:52.710 by creating this whites-only space. 46 00:09:52.920 --> 00:10:06.880 We're in group interactions maximized. And there's almost complete separation from out groups. And the key part of this curation is to build this effective connection alongside the spatial element, which is, you know, that of the the the national landscape. 47 00:10:08.400 --> 00:10:17.660 So there's substantial evidence across a range of disciplines to suggest that experiences in natural environments and green spaces, etc., can have positive effects on people's 48 00:10:17.910 --> 00:10:32.990 a physical and mental well, being a couple of examples here, a systematic review paper recently in Lancet Planetary Health, found widespread evidence that prescribed time in nature low as blood pressure, and has a moderate to large effect on depression and anxiety. Another study recently. 49 00:10:32.990 --> 00:10:51.250 it's sort of a psychological Environmental Psychology journal suggested that the affective states boosted by time and night to revitalizing. So they sort of activating and energizing forms of effect. And so time in nature makes us feel better, and it can be a motivating force, including in the political sphere. 50 00:10:51.760 --> 00:11:12.430 So these events are curated so that positive, effective experiences in this natural in this natural setting and affinity, participants might feel with this sort of romanticized national landscape. they're paired with political education to create this effective affinity between the participants and the, I guess the discursive content of the the group's political outlook. 51 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:19.819 and it's intended to reinforce his connection with the imagined white nation between the nation and the national landscape and these positive, affective States 52 00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:42.779 operates a form of empowerment, and are in contrast with many of the sort of negative effective states that are connected to the groups, political outlook often involving things like fear and loss and discomfort. And these kind of things. So organizers try to curate these experiences to link to link the nation and the landscape, and build these positive, affective bonds between people and people and people in place. so we'll look at some specific examples here. 53 00:11:43.020 --> 00:12:04.650 So patriotic alternative is a British far right group founded in 2019. The memberships open to white British people, and they have male and female co-leaders. they hold regular events in the British countryside part of its activism, including their annual summer camp. They also hold events on indigenous people's day, and which is used to sort of assert their claim to indigenous 80 status and tying this 54 00:12:04.700 --> 00:12:08.309 quite heavily to whiteness, using this as a white lives matter kind of messaging 55 00:12:08.570 --> 00:12:14.810 an example of this event in 2,021 at a summer camp in the peak districts, where that these photographs are from 56 00:12:15.030 --> 00:12:26.059 and they camped together in a field and did a bunch of activities like singing songs together, tag a war barbecuing, etc. And then they hike to the top of the mountain mam tour 57 00:12:26.270 --> 00:12:42.829 and did a publicity shoot with a white lives matter, and we will not be replaced. Banner Replacement here refers to this great replacement conspiracy theory. Where it's claimed, there is this deliberate process under way to replace white Europeans with people from other ethnic and cultural backgrounds. 58 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:47.280 And so the carefully created image of this event 59 00:12:47.400 --> 00:13:08.139 is very family friendly, the the co-leader emphasizing that this is a safe space for children, participants where colorful outdoor activity, where there's always sort of of colorful regional flags and stuff that they're waving And it gives this carnival atmosphere and presenters in the videos come across as they are really smiling and friendly. And there's a strong attempt to project this image of a sort of harmonious and happy white community. 60 00:13:08.300 --> 00:13:18.769 They're appealing here to these white habiters, one tied to this to family values, and that the sort of I guess this valorization of an idyllic, romanticized sort of British countryside a steady 61 00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:27.550 The PA co-leader, in reference to this event, stated this weekend, we built that F no state. It might have only been for a weekend, but it existed 62 00:13:27.830 --> 00:13:41.230 so by curating the experience of this ethno state, if only temporarily. This white habit is reinforced through this maximization of of in group interaction and the complete exclusion of out groups, and it attempts to construct a range of 63 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:55.309 a kind of positive and vitalizing effective responses like, you know, connectedness, empowerment, happiness, safety, solidarity, these kind of feelings, and it reinforces that these can only occur within the setting of the national landscape and in this exclusive company of other white people. 64 00:13:55.390 --> 00:14:00.500 So they're constructing and performing what they believe is this kind of racial and ecological harmony. 65 00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:09.719 this primordial connection. Suppose primordial connection between this harmonious, indigenous white nation and a romantic national landscape of the British countryside. 66 00:14:10.970 --> 00:14:37.860 So we'll look at another example here in Australia, national Socialist network is A is an Ethn Nationalist, far right group. bounded in 2,020 here in Australia. And it's memberships only available to able-bodied white men, and has the chapters of In the number of cities with with Melbourne or Nam being at center of activity, and they've held a number of hiking and camping events within a few hours of here, including the cathedral ranges and Grampy and Scarroword National Park, where they had an event in 2,021, 67 00:14:38.010 --> 00:14:59.699 and at this event these are pictures. From that all the the 2 left and right pictures are. From this event they hiked to a series of caves and and look out. So they shot footage of themselves, singing and chanting far, right slogans and posing for photographs. And they've used these to produce content for their online media, and they project this particular aesthetic, this kind of orderly, masculine military stick, and a kind of threatening aesthetic. 68 00:15:00.300 --> 00:15:02.259 And this choice of location. 69 00:15:02.550 --> 00:15:18.180 this is a kind of a stage for the performance of a kind of frontier settler colonial masculinity that's quite specifically Australian, and and runs through a specifically Australian Nationalist myth making, and it deliberately takes place on sites of importance to first nations. People 70 00:15:18.370 --> 00:15:23.099 so unlike patriarchal alternative, or the the German far right where 71 00:15:23.190 --> 00:15:43.800 where they've appropriated their sort of see how salute gesture in these photos. They can't easily construct this white nationhood through this, imagine primordial connection to land. Instead, they have to rejuvenate the idea of settle colonialism as an as a white European project, and they see that, as having failed, due to multiculturalism and the persistence of like first nations, presences 72 00:15:44.630 --> 00:16:10.009 instead, this white nation's entitlement to land and the national landscape is built on this idea of white men having conquered and needing to reconquer this land, it invokes this effective connection to stories of like settler for bears and its positions as members of these sort of contemporary agents of colonial expansion within this wider history of white, settler nation building. And so this is the kind of idea like these tough men being forged in the conquest of of a tough land. 73 00:16:10.780 --> 00:16:27.629 so they seek to symbolically re-enact this colonial encounter as a means of domination, both culturally and in relation to the national landscape. I'm going to quote from the website here the myth that we must offer in our meta-political campaign is that of the reconquest of this continent and the re-establishment of wide Australia 74 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:52.480 so similarly to patriotic alternative. national Socialist network appealed to this white habit. But they're also appealing to a kind of masculine habits as well one that sort of combat, even Marshall, and in terms of group, in group interaction and outgroup separation. Their membership and activities reinforce the this, this white and masculine inhabitants, and in this context, away from what they believe to be the sort of feminizing and deracinating influence of the urban space. 75 00:16:52.980 --> 00:16:56.050 So, according to the Ns in activist manual and a quote from it here. 76 00:16:56.060 --> 00:17:16.929 hikes are great for getting out into nature and away from the entropy of urban life. They're a useful tool for bringing a group of activists together, getting them to know each other and fostering a sense of mateship. So the affective responses here are quite vitalizing that this is enthusiasm, empowerment, aliveness, connectedness, and these sort of positive affects related to friendship building, and the kind of parochial masculine idea of makes you 77 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:25.130 so these events are curated to construct and reinforce this particular white mouse with inhabitants built on this figure of the the frontier settler. 78 00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:30.449 where the white nation's connection to the landscape is built through this idea of toil and conquest. 79 00:17:32.110 --> 00:17:52.099 But these curatorial offence. Attempts aren't necessarily successful. despite how hard they try, this curation can go wrong. And this can have quite serious consequences for the group. So in these instances the organizers can lose control. The curation isn't successful. and this process of invoking the desired effective states isn't completed. 80 00:17:52.700 --> 00:18:06.609 So in these instances a range of alternative effective responses can be experienced by participants ranging from disinterest and boredom through to fear and outrage. And these experiences, rather than building this people and people and people in place. Connection 81 00:18:07.020 --> 00:18:14.649 the you know, this can lead to disillusion and and exit of the participants from the from the group and from the political project altogether. 82 00:18:14.930 --> 00:18:39.709 positive These sort of intended positive experiences in real life can be disrupted by intervention from the State intervention, from anti fascist or from internal dynamics. within the groups themselves. Examples here include the the police raid on the Nsn. Camping trip in 2,020, both of which ended these events prematurely and in the resulting confrontations. 83 00:18:39.710 --> 00:19:10.929 you know, invoking affective states, such as fear and humiliation, and these kind of things which really goes against what you know they were trying to setting out to achieve. I'll give an example here of an internal dynamic, you know. In August, 2,020, an account was published online by an ex patriotic alternative member. talking about their experiences under undertaking a protest action on indigenous people's day in London. And this image on the screen is actually taken from that. And that's a good example of the curatorial process. So this isn't a photo from the event. This is them overlaying 84 00:19:10.950 --> 00:19:24.019 there an image of what they think they're ban. It looks like over Trafalgar Square, and they're curating the kind of like aesthetic that they want to project in the future from having actually accomplished the the, the the banner action one. 85 00:19:24.620 --> 00:19:53.170 So this protest. Action was disrupted by anti fascist, and the account details the reasons. The author having had left the organization that describes these internal debt dynamics in the in in a patriotic alternative involving controlling behavior and micro management, a lack of concern for activist safety and well being blame, shifting and sort of post activity, accusations, and stuff. And so, rather than these uplifting, effective responses that they would have had from this successful execution of this curated publicity. Start participants were left feeling 86 00:19:53.170 --> 00:19:59.650 fearful and abandoned under suspicion and blaming not the anti-fascist, but the organizing culture of the group itself. 87 00:20:00.280 --> 00:20:15.760 So, despite these attempts to curate these positive, effective experiences, these incidents and dynamics can result in participants having very different experiences than intended and can result in people designed to leave the group or cease to be politically active or pursue politics by different means. 88 00:20:16.860 --> 00:20:43.550 so I'm just gonna discuss a few things relation to this. I think it's it's rare as research is to get an insight into these kind of dynamics. yet they're incredibly important. in the functioning of these groups and documenting these movements aren't curated accounts of themselves as important, but as is looking at alternative accounts, of events and and internal struggles when they're actually available to us. it's also important to compare and contrast far right groups across different contexts. 89 00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:51.890 Bernard Fortunner, who edited a recent volume. The Far Right in the environment, highlighted this need for this country to country analysis of relationships between the far right and the environment. 90 00:20:51.970 --> 00:21:07.620 It's also important to consider affect in studies of the far right as well as investigations in the social and environmental nexus. Australian sociologist, Stuart Locky argues for more systematic consideration of emotion and of embodiment, and affect more generally in environmental sociology. 91 00:21:07.890 --> 00:21:32.530 So to wrap up the far right, utilizing these events in nature, where they curately series of activity just designed to invite this particular effective responses. these leverage people's effective, existing effective responses to being present in natural settings. in order to reinforce this in group connection and connection between the group, the imagination, and the national landscape, and they also add political content to give this additional meaning. 92 00:21:32.780 --> 00:21:52.549 to these positive responses, and contrast them with the negative feelings of fear and loss that's often a feature in the groups understandings of multicultural society, and these events are also curated aesthetically for use in social media. putting the group activities in these natural vistas and landscapes for photogenic appeal and to reinforce this people place connection. 93 00:21:52.550 --> 00:22:05.600 And sometimes, however, these curatorial processes are unsuccessful, these activities are disrupted, and it leads to different participant experiences and resulting Effective states that are quite different than what was intended. 94 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:07.830 Thank you. And 95 00:22:08.380 --> 00:22:09.960 there is some references. 96 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:16.680 Daniel Marín: Okay, thank you very much, Dean. 97 00:22:16.690 --> 00:22:29.520 Daniel Marín: You are on time. It's very well, thank you very much for that then. Now, probably prospect. If you come team, you can present parallel, or can I? 98 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:32.730 I'll click on it 99 00:22:32.800 --> 00:22:33.960 Daniel Marín: right? Okay. 100 00:22:35.970 --> 00:22:38.690 Daniel Marín: right? Okay. Come on 101 00:22:39.520 --> 00:22:46.600 Pavel Pospěch: right. Thanks. I'm I'm sorry I still haven't been able to fix my camera. So so it's a Yup. 102 00:22:46.860 --> 00:22:51.680 Pavel Pospěch: it's just the presentation, can I? Can I actually move the presentation, or, or 103 00:22:55.450 --> 00:23:04.169 Daniel Marín: sorry? Can I? Can I? Can I move the slides in the presentation, or should I? Should I? You you you come off the presentation 104 00:23:04.340 --> 00:23:11.630 sb: he was speaking. I think what you have to do is you have to stop share. You have to stop share on the podium. 105 00:23:11.770 --> 00:23:18.530 sb: and then you have to share your screen. The next present has to share their screen. 106 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:21.760 sb: Okay, your 107 00:23:21.970 --> 00:23:27.100 Daniel Marín: yeah, your your own presentation. Okay, okay. 108 00:23:28.080 --> 00:23:35.199 Daniel Marín: okay, wonderful good. thanks. So what I want to talk about really, 109 00:23:35.610 --> 00:23:57.639 Pavel Pospěch: is a project that I'm working in with with colleagues from Usari University. We have a a project which is focused on how, in the Czech Republic, where we work, how the relationships between the centers and the peripheries are experienced and discussed and frames. So the kind of tension between the center and periphery is what has been interesting for us. 110 00:23:57.710 --> 00:24:10.469 Pavel Pospěch: we did interviews, we did some media monitoring, we did content analysis, and and we kept sort of bumping into into a topic of real life. So people were talking 111 00:24:10.670 --> 00:24:28.370 Pavel Pospěch: when when asked, and when when we read the the articles people were talking a lot about real life about live on the periphery as sort of more real than live in the center, and we we had this one. We had this motive kind of 112 00:24:28.370 --> 00:24:42.609 Pavel Pospěch: being repeated so often that we figured we should look into it, and we should see how people use the notion of free life, or what they actually mean when they talk about real life. Right? So so this is what the presentation will be about. 113 00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:47.099 Pavel Pospěch: basically. yeah, the question would be, What is real life? 114 00:24:47.260 --> 00:25:03.430 Pavel Pospěch: I don't know that. But I do know a bit about having done this research. I do know a bit about how do people use this notion of realness and unrealness to make sense of the relationship between between the centers and the peripheries. 115 00:25:03.940 --> 00:25:05.739 Pavel Pospěch: Now, of course, 116 00:25:07.620 --> 00:25:32.530 Pavel Pospěch: this is a big topic, the relationship between center and periphery at least since 2,016, and and Brexit and the election of Donald Trump. And it has been a big topic discussed in sociology and in social science in general. There are accounts, influential accounts of alienation at the periphery there are in political science in particular. 117 00:25:32.620 --> 00:25:50.979 Pavel Pospěch: there are the notions of places that don't matter. So the kind of how peripheries are not taken seriously, and how the problems of the peripheries are not visible for the centers. some of these have been a man manifested in social movements like the, you know, West in France. 118 00:25:51.040 --> 00:25:58.320 Pavel Pospěch: and and there is also the the notion of the the social border and the symbolic border of the very frame. So 119 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:11.229 Pavel Pospěch: the social border I'll move to here. The social border being the actual border between, say, the capital city on the one hand, and the rural in the lands on the other. 120 00:26:11.280 --> 00:26:14.190 Pavel Pospěch: and the symbolic border is rather 121 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.990 Pavel Pospěch: a border dividing those who are placed in the 122 00:26:18.250 --> 00:26:40.489 Pavel Pospěch: against those who feel themselves that they are on the shoulder of the stick, against those that who feel that they are being treated unfairly, that they are being peripheralized, so to speak. in this book. that you can see on the slide the the of resentment. Of course. Catherine Kramer is introducing this concept of rural consciousness, and she says 123 00:26:41.140 --> 00:26:52.140 Pavel Pospěch: a rural consciousness is a is a sense, a feeling of being treated unfairly, not getting your share of resources from the center, for instance, and you don't have to. 124 00:26:52.700 --> 00:27:06.390 Pavel Pospěch: It is something that she found in the rule of Wisconsin, but it doesn't have to be in the rural areas. You can experience a real consciousness even if you are a person living in a city, for instance. So so there's also a symbolic border. That's the point. 125 00:27:07.150 --> 00:27:12.099 Pavel Pospěch: right? This is the Czech Republic. You can see on the map in in Central Europe. 126 00:27:12.770 --> 00:27:37.039 Pavel Pospěch: And like, I said, when we were mapping out the discourse about the center and periphery, we kept on encountering the motif of real life, and usually it was about the urban elites about the rich people from cities, from Capital City in particular, from Prague, who don't know anything about real life. That was the sort of recurring motif and it has. It is a cognitive dimension, and it is moral dimension. 127 00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:43.969 Pavel Pospěch: the cognitive, the cognitive dimension was about the lack of knowledge. So people from 128 00:27:44.040 --> 00:27:51.669 Pavel Pospěch: centers, people from cities where portrayed as alienated from real problems, and because they don't have the knowledge 129 00:27:51.910 --> 00:28:18.980 Pavel Pospěch: right, they don't have the experience of of real life, which was done translated as a moral sort of issue as a more of failure. So if you are, if you don't know real life, if you don't know what real life is about, then you don't have the right to intervene. You don't have the right to tell people what to do. So, in a in a certain sense, the the relationship between the real and the unreal was portrayed as a 130 00:28:19.230 --> 00:28:29.249 Pavel Pospěch: as a relationship of the adult to a child like somebody who knows who has been there? Where is the experience against somebody who doesn't? 131 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:32.299 Pavel Pospěch: So, in in a sense. 132 00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:52.780 Pavel Pospěch: this was You may know the the sort of classical text on center and periphery by by it, or chills where you said that the center is the sacred. So one of the society was the periphery kind of the profane or or polluted in a way? So in in a sense. 133 00:28:53.000 --> 00:29:00.580 Pavel Pospěch: this, this course is reversing this relationship. Here the periphery is portrayed as the sacred. 134 00:29:00.610 --> 00:29:03.889 Pavel Pospěch: while the the centers 135 00:29:04.090 --> 00:29:07.000 Pavel Pospěch: profanized. So 136 00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:34.519 Pavel Pospěch: this the data that I will show you all the examples of the data all come from not from the interviews yet, but from the media analysis, from the content of the news media of the reports that we're discussing the relationships between center and periphery. The reports were collected between 2,010 to the 23 from a broad range of media, including all sorts of political beliefs, and so on. 137 00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:41.610 Pavel Pospěch: and broad sheets and tabloids, of course. and the urban elites that that 138 00:29:41.660 --> 00:29:56.799 Pavel Pospěch: we're discussed in these articles where sometimes referred under the heading of the Brock Cafe. So this is a sort of media short cut that people use in the general public when they want to talk about 139 00:29:57.060 --> 00:30:09.169 Pavel Pospěch: rich, influential, idle, urban people, they use the shortcut. They use the term Brock Cafe. So people who sit in the capital city, and they drink cafe, and they have nothing better to do and talk right? 140 00:30:09.260 --> 00:30:12.080 so a lot of this was focused on that 141 00:30:12.670 --> 00:30:14.410 Pavel Pospěch: right. So real life. 142 00:30:15.970 --> 00:30:20.050 Pavel Pospěch: First thing that that I noticed in the data is that 143 00:30:20.110 --> 00:30:26.760 Pavel Pospěch: when people talk about real life they very frequently refer to work. that there is an idea of 144 00:30:26.770 --> 00:30:32.169 Pavel Pospěch: work which is real and work which is less real, and the distinction 145 00:30:32.270 --> 00:30:33.460 Pavel Pospěch: is that 146 00:30:33.530 --> 00:30:47.670 Pavel Pospěch: real work is work which is hard on the one hand, and which is tangible, which produces something that you can see and experience and touch as opposed to the work which is considered unreal. 147 00:30:47.770 --> 00:30:53.590 Pavel Pospěch: which is, you know shuffling of words, basically working with words only 148 00:30:53.660 --> 00:31:14.189 Pavel Pospěch: very frequently you hear about empty words. So here's an example. The the first quotation in in gray, where somebody's an all through saying, I have strengthened my physique, my immunity. I was happy to see the results of my work, and I slept well, happy and physically tired, a happy redneck. 149 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:26.980 Pavel Pospěch: so describing himself as a redneck of ironically, but on the one that, on the one hand, but, on the other hand, showing that what he did in the day was a real work, because it was hard work. 150 00:31:29.670 --> 00:31:37.590 Pavel Pospěch: Then the the quotation in yellow which again speaks about the the tangibility of of real work. 151 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:49.769 Pavel Pospěch: But rural people live in the houses that they built, they drive on the roads they built in cars that they produce and they eat food, they have grown. So there is. This emphasis on 152 00:31:50.020 --> 00:31:53.299 Pavel Pospěch: real work produces real results. 153 00:31:54.420 --> 00:32:01.269 Pavel Pospěch: And the the final quotation is probably also something that has been appearing in the data. 154 00:32:01.900 --> 00:32:05.750 Pavel Pospěch: a real work is seen as a duty. 155 00:32:06.060 --> 00:32:13.889 Pavel Pospěch: something that you do without boasting, without. You are not trying to impress anyone. It's not about you. 156 00:32:13.930 --> 00:32:27.279 Pavel Pospěch: the work that you do. It's about the duty which is there. so that's the that's also sort of touched up on in the quote. Any village woman knows how to skin a rabbit. This, won't it, for impress anyone. 157 00:32:27.710 --> 00:32:38.260 Pavel Pospěch: It's not done to impress people. So this work. the second area that that that was there was in the data was real knowledge. 158 00:32:38.360 --> 00:32:55.339 Pavel Pospěch: and real knowledge is something which is lift, not land so In this this course the key source of legitimacy is, of course, first hand knowledge, and first, that knowledge is very frequently connected with the experience of lack, the experience of 159 00:32:55.810 --> 00:32:58.749 Pavel Pospěch: not having enough or lacking something. 160 00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:14.419 Pavel Pospěch: Here's the first example in in in the Yellow Books, where it says it it it. It's from an article about people on the periphery people in the rural areas on the periphery who in snow, in rain, in blizzard. They wait for the only bus to get them to work or to school. 161 00:33:14.450 --> 00:33:21.219 Pavel Pospěch: and the offer also emphasizes that this is how you experience real life by experiencing like. 162 00:33:21.450 --> 00:33:22.250 Pavel Pospěch: And 163 00:33:22.470 --> 00:33:23.310 Pavel Pospěch: and 164 00:33:23.460 --> 00:33:40.510 Pavel Pospěch: the second quote is an interesting one, comes from an author who argues that the right to vote which in the Czech Republic you get with 18 years of age should not come with 18, but rather after having completed 5 years of real work. So 165 00:33:40.770 --> 00:33:45.779 Pavel Pospěch: you you can only vote once you have done real work for 5 years. 166 00:33:46.390 --> 00:34:04.870 Pavel Pospěch: but then he kind of backpeded us on the statement and says, but there are young people who, even at their age, got a good meeting from live, and they had the chance to find out what it's about. So again, this this notion that if you want to know what real life is. You must get the good beating from live. 167 00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:17.959 Pavel Pospěch: The third area is language. There's a real language, and there's less read language. Now, this is. Of course, this is a very family motif in 168 00:34:18.230 --> 00:34:40.819 Pavel Pospěch: in the Populist move and movements around the world, people calling spate a spade, people saying things as they are. This is the kind of legitimacy card that you here quite often when the was the Populist politicians take the stage. it's also something which is very strongly repeated in in this discourse of the center and the periphery right 169 00:34:41.740 --> 00:34:56.169 Pavel Pospěch: calling things the right name on the one hand, as opposed to empty words, empty phrases. Here's an example in the in the Yellow Books intellectual empty talk doesn't buy you a little of Diesel or a kilogram of pork. 170 00:34:56.770 --> 00:34:59.689 Pavel Pospěch: On the one hand. 171 00:35:00.500 --> 00:35:06.800 Pavel Pospěch: on the other hand, a real talk is also something which is understandable to everyone, and it unites people together. 172 00:35:07.470 --> 00:35:13.669 Pavel Pospěch: This is a strong motif, where, for instance, some politicians are being loaded into this course 173 00:35:14.590 --> 00:35:16.949 Pavel Pospěch: by saying, Yes, they speak. 174 00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:39.480 Pavel Pospěch: they, they, they, they, they, they, they use a real language because everybody understands the language as opposed to the urban elite and the urban elite. Instead of coming together reading from the gray books. Instead of coming together, cooperating, helping, and improving the country, they prioritize disputes, hate with inventing obstacles and problems 175 00:35:39.660 --> 00:35:40.850 Pavel Pospěch: right? So 176 00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:47.460 Pavel Pospěch: language is seen as a tool of solidarity, of uniting people. That's what makes real language real. 177 00:35:49.590 --> 00:35:54.570 Pavel Pospěch: Fourth, and penultimate. Real life is not just about you. 178 00:35:55.120 --> 00:36:05.720 Pavel Pospěch: I have specifically chosen the cover of the book by Christopher Lash, because it kind of echoes the arguments that Lash made about narcissism, that 179 00:36:05.890 --> 00:36:10.059 Pavel Pospěch: the urban elite and the urban personalities those people living the 180 00:36:10.290 --> 00:36:26.979 Pavel Pospěch: in inverted commos under your life are seen as narcissistic because they have their arguments, they have their cliques, they have their groups, and they are obsessed with themselves only just like when Christopher Lesh odd use that the narcissist keeps on looking. 181 00:36:26.980 --> 00:36:49.020 Pavel Pospěch: but wherever he or she goes they only only find themselves. They only encounter themselves because they are making everything about themselves. So there seems to, it seems to me in the data that there is the there is a sort of discrepancy. There's a sort of conflict between the ethics of personality. This would be the narcissistic ethics making everything about yourself 182 00:36:49.080 --> 00:37:00.230 Pavel Pospěch: and the ethics of office, the Fx office in the sense that Max vain but uses the word So an ethics of duty, something which must be done regardless 183 00:37:00.520 --> 00:37:03.270 Pavel Pospěch: of who you are, regardless of the person it 184 00:37:03.340 --> 00:37:06.760 Pavel Pospěch: so real life is like which is not just about you. 185 00:37:06.870 --> 00:37:20.780 Pavel Pospěch: And finally, real values are something which is on the decline. This is also a familiar motive. Real values are on the decline. There is a sense of pessimism, of civilization or pessimism, of entire urbanism. 186 00:37:22.250 --> 00:37:33.030 Pavel Pospěch: and there was an emphasis on the figure of the dissident somebody who stands against the ideological mainstream because the ideological mainstream is seen as something which 187 00:37:33.140 --> 00:37:37.470 Pavel Pospěch: it's advancing the on the real. 188 00:37:37.590 --> 00:37:41.119 Pavel Pospěch: So those are the 5 areas where I was able to observe 189 00:37:41.340 --> 00:37:58.459 Pavel Pospěch: what people see, what w, what what people mean when they actually when they talk about what is real, what is real life? Right? There's real work, there's real knowledge. There's real language, there's real life. There are real values. All these are 190 00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:10.050 Pavel Pospěch: a sort of one side of the deep binary codes which are underlying the civil discourse, the real against the unreal And I was wondering whether there is something that 191 00:38:10.470 --> 00:38:13.959 Pavel Pospěch: unite these things, whether there is something common 192 00:38:13.990 --> 00:38:24.449 Pavel Pospěch: that you couldn't say what makes the real real, and I was able to come up with 2 possible candidates. One is resistance. 193 00:38:25.189 --> 00:38:31.409 Pavel Pospěch: So things are perceived as real experiences perceived as real. If it resists. 194 00:38:32.200 --> 00:38:39.660 Pavel Pospěch: If it comes easy, then it's not perceived. As for you. and the resistance must come from the object, from from an external object. 195 00:38:40.200 --> 00:38:50.949 Pavel Pospěch: not say If somebody overcomes their personal sort of problems, their their traumas. This is not perceived as completely real. 196 00:38:51.010 --> 00:38:55.979 Pavel Pospěch: What is perceived as completely real is when you engage with an outside object. 197 00:38:56.370 --> 00:39:14.500 Pavel Pospěch: So an external object which, of course, echoes the sort of Hegelian dialectics of the master and the slide. Right? It's it's about being in touch with the external world. The outside object. So so resistance was, was one idea, and autonomy was the second idea. 198 00:39:14.670 --> 00:39:25.510 Pavel Pospěch: Autonomy is a claim for more recognition, because you have your own experience, because you don't make everything about yourself. You are social, but not hurt like 199 00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:32.239 Pavel Pospěch: you are able to perceive the world autonomously. This makes you a person always in touch with real life. 200 00:39:32.910 --> 00:39:56.529 Pavel Pospěch: So so I think these could be the idea of resistance, and the idea of autonomy are possibly the the significations of the imaginary significations which which help us make sense of what people perceive as real and unreal. Therefore making making the connection or making the the relationship between the centers and the peripheries understandable. 201 00:39:56.910 --> 00:39:57.750 Pavel Pospěch: Thank you. 202 00:39:59.560 --> 00:40:01.640 Daniel Marín: Thank you very much. Follow 203 00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:04.360 Daniel Marín: so very interesting presentation. 204 00:40:04.510 --> 00:40:05.780 Daniel Marín: Thank you. And 205 00:40:05.940 --> 00:40:10.130 Daniel Marín: a. Now 206 00:40:28.220 --> 00:40:29.010 Daniel Marín: see 207 00:40:29.660 --> 00:40:30.939 Nohelia Pasapera: some of you. 208 00:53:36.450 --> 00:53:40.780 Nohelia Pasapera: he 209 00:55:10.600 --> 00:55:11.660 Nohelia Pasapera: and 210 00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:19.250 Daniel Marín: perfect. 211 00:58:34.130 --> 00:58:36.560 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: You can enter a meeting if it past you. 212 00:58:44.790 --> 00:58:48.830 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: I'm sorry my English is not good. 213 00:58:48.890 --> 00:58:52.899 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: I was speaking in Spanish. Sorry. 214 01:02:22.310 --> 01:06:23.770 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: So that is important. 215 01:06:29.440 --> 01:06:31.500 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: And 216 01:11:08.250 --> 01:11:09.919 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: he shook to you 217 01:11:26.380 --> 01:11:27.820 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: and 218 01:11:29.020 --> 01:11:30.950 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: one of 219 01:12:01.400 --> 01:12:02.640 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: in 220 01:13:00.180 --> 01:13:07.670 Daniel Marín: where we in to comment these presentations, and at first a you are, are you here? 221 01:13:11.770 --> 01:13:12.689 Daniel Marín: I mean. 222 01:13:14.150 --> 01:13:17.890 Daniel Marín: Well, it's out. 223 01:13:23.180 --> 01:13:25.740 I can't see the bubbles there. No. 224 01:13:26.490 --> 01:13:34.450 Daniel Marín: it's out what? Don't worry. Well, I comment your presentation team at first. 225 01:13:34.520 --> 01:13:39.350 Daniel Marín: I I want to commit to give you congratulations for your presentation. 226 01:13:39.370 --> 01:13:45.040 Daniel Marín: is, it was very interesting. And and you're a 227 01:13:45.050 --> 01:13:46.260 Daniel Marín: Us. Speech 228 01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:49.970 Daniel Marín: is a is, may be. 229 01:13:49.990 --> 01:13:55.900 Daniel Marín: very complete. and I one question for you. It 230 01:13:56.400 --> 01:14:02.240 Daniel Marín: you, You will so call it this a 231 01:14:03.020 --> 01:14:10.200 Daniel Marín: who create landscape collective action. You also call it a eco-faxis. 232 01:14:11.420 --> 01:14:12.680 So what sorry 233 01:14:13.880 --> 01:14:18.819 Daniel Marín: you so call it this corrective ecosystem? 234 01:14:19.040 --> 01:14:21.330 Daniel Marín: Eco-fascism? 235 01:14:22.600 --> 01:14:24.150 Yeah, I mean. 236 01:14:25.050 --> 01:14:37.209 I think there is a there's a tendency to use the term eco-fascist to mean a very broad range of things, and I think in the academic literature, at least in in, I guess. 237 01:14:37.270 --> 01:14:42.680 coming from. I guess the English language, academic literature. Around this there's been a tendency to 238 01:14:42.870 --> 01:15:07.010 refer to eco-fascism as something much more specific as in something that is like fits, the definition of both fascism and a ecological thought, and that people are sort of using a broader term of of far right ecologism or far right environmentalism to capture the sort of broader spectrum of thought that occurring on on the far right around the environment. 239 01:15:07.070 --> 01:15:14.820 and I think for these groups. I think they definitely they're definitely fascist groups. 240 01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:25.080 but I don't think they necessarily ecological in the sense that it's a key. 241 01:15:25.140 --> 01:15:43.440 It's not a key issue for them in terms of their actual politics is pursuing environmental issues. I think the environment is is part of how they understand their relationship to the nation and to to the landscape. But at the moment they're not out there. 242 01:15:43.510 --> 01:15:53.050 you know, protesting about actual environmental issues. They're more focused on things around race and gender. And this kind of thing. So I would, I would hesitate 243 01:15:53.330 --> 01:15:59.350 to call these groups eco-fascist groups. But I do think they're fascist groups who 244 01:15:59.740 --> 01:16:05.689 you know, embedded in their politics is is a particular relationship to the environment. 245 01:16:05.790 --> 01:16:06.680 Yeah. 246 01:16:07.520 --> 01:16:18.609 Daniel Marín: And and can you, Intificate. Another more, Groups, or call it, if like that in the your presentation in around the world? 247 01:16:19.700 --> 01:16:22.950 yeah, there, I mean. 248 01:16:24.050 --> 01:16:45.469 there's definitely I I've picked those 2 examples because they 2 places that I've you know, I've spent a bit of time in in the U in in the Uk, and also in Australia, obviously and but there are definitely other groups out there who are doing a similar thing in terms of having these kind of outdoor activities. 249 01:16:46.490 --> 01:17:09.789 particularly, I mean, there's been a groups on the on the quite the very sort of extreme right groups, groups like the base. And these kind of things that we in America, who are very like, you know, actually kind of like. Some of them have been prescribed as terror organizations, and this kind of thing where they would do outdoor, I guess military style, training, and this kind of thing, and that 250 01:17:09.970 --> 01:17:17.330 also, you know, form as part of their their kind of suite of activities. 251 01:17:17.550 --> 01:17:24.829 Yeah, I think you know, in America, it seems there are some groups that are doing similar things as well, yeah, yeah. 252 01:17:25.120 --> 01:17:27.419 Daniel Marín: okay, well, thank you very much. 253 01:18:17.770 --> 01:18:19.880 Daniel Marín: They are CEO. And 254 01:20:06.510 --> 01:20:09.870 Nohelia Pasapera: and 255 01:20:10.030 --> 01:20:14.780 Nohelia Pasapera: and 256 01:24:39.970 --> 01:24:43.410 Daniel Marín: the real mental phenomenon of 257 01:25:08.690 --> 01:25:13.660 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: a 258 01:25:42.260 --> 01:25:46.770 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: in 259 01:26:04.250 --> 01:26:05.670 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: and 260 01:26:15.320 --> 01:26:16.650 Patricia Schettini UNLP-LIMSyC-RIAR: and 261 01:28:08.210 --> 01:28:10.520 Daniel Marín: team. are you there? 262 01:28:15.780 --> 01:28:23.750 Daniel Marín: Team timber. yeah, okay, the audience, okay, as there, anyone with you 263 01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:26.339 Daniel Marín: who Mega was? Yeah. 264 01:28:26.480 --> 01:28:42.089 no, there was. There was 6 people in the audience. But everybody, everybody has headed off during the question. 265 01:28:42.620 --> 01:28:43.990 Daniel Marín: if you can. 266 01:28:45.080 --> 01:28:46.930 Daniel Marín: They anything? 267 01:28:48.260 --> 01:28:49.360 Daniel Marín: Wow! 268 01:28:49.570 --> 01:29:02.510 Daniel Marín: I'm good. But thank thank you both for your your those presentations that were really great. okay, thank you very much. Team. Thank you again for your help to me. 269 01:29:27.610 --> 01:29:28.000 Daniel Marín: Good night, good mine.