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Is that OK? Right, well I look you take away now.

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Okay, today I'm gonna speak about European law. From, of course, I have, And, when, speak about Europa and you.

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Usually the main question is there is. And European society. Does European society or societies exist?

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So the main approach in this study is trying to find some factors that constraints Oh, the integration as consequence, the literature.

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Give us some results. So sociology, usually speaks about European law as a structure diversity.

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Of national societies in plural. Or at the heterogeneity of practices. So the key word according to the sociology studies are the diversity and So there's a surge of start from this party with the fragmentation.

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Between states and the national society, the definition of national society. Is the model to study the European Union.

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But as we know, the European Union is composed by 27 states but the European Union scheme and the European Union system pretend to put all together according to the treaties.

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So, methodologically speaking, this approach of fermentation. Yeah, give us How competitive method so almost all the study on the European integration.

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Want to compromise commonalities or differences between states.

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Trying to looking for a lowest common denominator or try to look for differences from Europe. To United States.

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So as you can see, can picture we have a very very fragmented idea of a European Union.

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What I would like to propose in my studies. Please describe So as a single society. So I take for granted.

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I take for granted the idea. All of them. Of having only one society in a European Union without fermentation.

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So the main question in my case. Is where is the European space? Of course I am referring to a European Union not a European territory is different.

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I'm referring only to They went to 27 states. Of Europe. Sorry, it's very early for me.

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So we know at least the 2 kind of spaces. The state space. That matches with national border. So the social actors interact in the national space or the So in this case, involve, interactions.

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On a planetary scale. I would like to introduce another space. Of course, the European Union space.

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But this kind of space of interaction of social actors. Is not an interaction based on interaction by beyond boundaries because in this case We would consider only the interaction of social actors.

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That use the free of movements in Europe. So only the interaction based on the movement of people of citizens or social actors.

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This is only the smallest part of European interaction between social actors. And so I would like to detect.

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All the interaction inside the European space, even if people or citizens or social actor don't have an international relationship inside the European Union space.

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I can mention. An example. For example, this bottle I'm drinking now is the same both all all all, cities and European citizens are used to drink.

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And imagine the information from the label, the quality of the water, the chemical agent that composed this bottle of plastic.

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This button. So all this information are compulsory. In all European, space. In this sense, this bottle is an example of the European space because of course I mentioned the batter but behind the bottle there are a lot of economic interaction economic interaction, cylinder interaction.

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So this battle is the bottom trunk by all people. Even if they don't move. Beyond the boundaries.

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So we have this European space composed by 2 parts. The first one, the space based on based.

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Or movement so going abroad the traveler or the other part of the repair space is composed by people that do not move from their own city.

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So in this sense I would like to detect all the European space. All this information I mentioned about about my battle, our information, our qualities based on the European law.

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So according to my studies, What the term the European law What the term the European society is the law because the law is the first time is the first.

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In the first time, systematize or the European relationship. As you can see from the image, the first major we are before a European Union.

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So before the fifteenth or less. Of course, European citizens. European people. They interrupt each other but only if they Yeah, use the mobility between.

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Beyond the boundaries. So the people in track interacted but they were under the same frame. And the international law where the landscape, so the tree is in the picture.

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After the European law. The situation change it and as be changes. All European citizens, of course, all European social actors interact under the same frame.

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So as you can see in the situation, he is very, very different and the social actor.

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And then the same role, under the same cultural, ideas.

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So the European law is able to create a But this kind of social dimension as particular characteristics. For The Rupert such elementon is very sectoral because the European Union law That doesn't cover all areas of the social act of the social action.

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For example at the family law. The taxation or the criminal law are completely outside. From the power of the European legislator.

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So it's a domestic area. Family law, for example, is a very, very strong domestic area which only the national holiday the states can enact rules.

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So I imagine we have a European session dimension that no concern or social action. The second characteristic is the mobility.

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In fact, there the European law is able to introduce always new spaces of interaction at the beginning of a European Union history.

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The rules concerned only the common market now. The rules, concern the fundamental rights. So step by step the integration, has been changing and the European law change the European social dimension.

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But the European law as a specific characteristic very very interesting because European law is able to spread its influence in national domains.

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For example, I mentioned the family law that it has that is outside the legislative power of a European institution.

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But thanks to other domain. The, is able to influence the, the family law, the national family law.

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For example, if you think about the same sex marriage that are possible now in all Europe.

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Thanks to the European law. Of course I consider the prudence when I refer to So this is a very, very strong characteristic that is able to.

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Spread so the European law is able to spread is in France in a lot of domestic domains.

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So how is possible that spreads his influence in domestic national domains. The European law.

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Interferes indirectly with social structure. So if you read the rules, if you read the norms, you can see that the European law is able to penetrate the internals feel or MAN.

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This field of member states.

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So it's a sort of impressive phenomenon in the national institution, national economy or social structure. So this characteristic.

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Rule, very, very different from the rule we are able to read in a national No.

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First of all, the normative message. The national law is based on an Epotheca structure.

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If But the European law works in a different way. The structure is objective and Action. So if you read the article one.

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The member states, they are in common. This is this article give us the structure of all European law.

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So the European, the European institution. Fix objectives. Then someone had to act.

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Another characteristic of the European law is that is that the other scenes are the member state. If you consider the national law, the overseas are the citizens.

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The people in the European law that they see are European member states. So thanks to this combination of normative message.

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Based on the scheme or than action and That's the characteristic of. Had the specific advocacy that our member states, is able to interfere with the social structure of the, member states.

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So I'm going to the conclusion. Studying from a sociological perspective, the European law is an open issue because he's not, you know, so common.

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It's not so common because trying to understand a new normative message. Looks very very complicated to me at all researchers because and you have to put yourself in another dimension.

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Trying to understand how it's possible that the law influence or domestic spears and so on. So I'm trying to study this points.

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Hey!

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And I have a little bit agenda studying more and more the European normative message. Considering, the differences between, the norms of treaties and regulation, directives and so on.

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And trying to, do empathy research. So. Apply in a applying in a single area.

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Yeah, my ideas on of a normative as such.

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Try to understand the consequence of this dormitory message. Using a Adams or this Agenda.

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I hope I will be able T face the European social dimension considering European Union as unity in an Italian way without considering the policies of fragmentation between states.

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Thank you.

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One wonderful, thank you so much to Fania and perfectly on time. I don't know about you must have had 2 espresos.

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Yes, but there is press machine. Can, wake up, my baby.

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Yes, so without this press today. Leather in a couple of hours.

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Oh. Stefania We will do just questions of clarification now and then after the other 2 speakers we'll have some discussion.

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So if you don't mind, my question is, and it's very simple, you mention ESD.

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But can you explain what's that abbreviation, ESD?

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Okay.

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Okay, variation is European social dimension. And the main characteristic is the own Italian idea of European society.

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Right.

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Singular society, not plural societies.

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Okay, wonderful. Thank you very much, Stefania. Just absolutely fascinating. I've been doing a an article on human dignity in the European jurisprudence.

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Yeah.

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And so we can discuss that as a normative objective. Later. And I'm not sure about our other speakers, Stefania.

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And we have let me just say Manduru. Ashan was online from Bangladesh but has now disappeared.

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And we do not, I've not seen Germano. From Brazil at all.

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So, I don't know. Whether to wait for Monsieur, to come back on.

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And.

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Can I just ask Anna, there's a person, another person online. Anna, do you have any questions?

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You can open your mic. Thank you.

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No, thank you very much for your presentation. I don't have any questions as as now as of now.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Anna. There is a question from the audience, Stefania. So, May perhaps come up here.

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Yeah.

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Hi, Stefania. I hope you can hear me. I'm a PHD researcher based in Australia at the Australian National University.

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I'm a PhD researcher based in Australia at the Australian National University. I'm sorry I was not there for the first part of your presentation.

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But since you presented on the normative dimensions of the European system. I was interested to know whether I know that Brexit has sort of created a profound impact on the other nations of the European Union and that there are ongoing discussions on the normative framework of the European law and its future.

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I'm from a different region so I haven't really kept up with the discussions and debates, but I was interested to know whether the key members or the powerful members of the European Union, including Italy, whether they have had any discussions on the normative future of the European legal framework.

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This may be out of your research scope if you have any insights, any practical insights. Just interested to know.

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Yeah Yeah, okay. In May and the the conference on the future of Europe. And, this kind of conference, in, European citizens the scope of the conference where debate on the normative future of Europe.

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And, it was very, very interesting. At this experience was based. Oh, no, no, like platform.

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So the participation were not so he's he was not able to involve all European citizens because in Maying early people or imagine the rural area of Europe without computers or so on.

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The European elites. But anyway, the issues and the topics treated were very, very interesting.

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They started from the LT system. And arriving to the economic, er, European system. So the goal of the conference were understand what European citizens wanted as to a European Union institution.

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Now the conference is finished. And the European institutions are thinking about. How to implement all these.

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Ideas. And so the debate is very, very vivid, very, very interesting and actual. I think about that only the European Parliament want to really implement the results of the conference on the future of Europe.

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He's not so sure to implement all the ideas. Of the conferences because Some of them, required to change European treaties.

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And change the treaties of Lisbon is very, very difficult. There is a big procedure. At to implement according to the treaties.

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But I'm confident that the most of the ideas on the future for Europe will be implemented because they are reasonable.

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So I suppose our institution will be able to. To satisfy the citizens that decided to take part in the European conference.

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So thank you for the question.

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Sorry, Sylvia. I've just been emailing our additional speakers. To see if they're going to come online again.

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So I'm sorry, but the good thing is Stefania is that we can all talk about your project.

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So my question, Stefania, is about, I understand you're now going to move into your empirical field work phase is that correct?

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Yeah.

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Yeah. So. So if.

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And may I ask, is your discipline sociology or is it law or socio-egal?

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Okay.

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Okay, it's not legal. I'm a lawyer. But I got a PhD in a sociology of law.

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Okay. Okay.

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So I'm in transition. Hey, it's not it's not so easy. Because the European law is very technical.

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Yeah.

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It's not, you know, so easy, but, I, the my first studies, sociologically speaking were about the court of justice of a European Union.

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Huh.

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I work there during my PST with Italian. And the in that period started my transition because I were there inside the court and I wrote judgments.

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I participated in a in the courts. Works. And I was there just observing what they did.

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And, at the end of that of my PC. I think, if I speak about, the European Court of Justice, I'm able to distinguish between law and sociology or of law.

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For example, I am publishing an article. About on the role of the parties to the proceeding, in the European preliminary ruling.

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I've in this article I focused on the on the question how it's possible that Okay, so the start in in a domestic law.

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How it's possible that this case. Big become becomes that has to be implemented in all European Union.

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Right. Yeah.

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And this is thanks to the role of single actors or member states. Judges, national judges, parties to the proceedings.

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So I think Hi, I was able to distinguish it to build an article completely from a sociological perspective.

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So my question is for this project now, given your extensive experience as a legal scholar. In Examining what do they call it transposing of laws and so forth.

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Yeah.

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How, what's your proposal now for? This comparative project.

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Okay. Now, I'm choosing a topic. To do my maybe I will, I will choose the system.

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The call is very actual. So the idea is, studying, Oh, in this topic, starting from the twenties and studying, directives and regulations.

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And find the difference between this kind of rules because they are very different. Reading the rules. I suppose I will be able to distinguish the normative massage of treaties directives and regulation.

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The I think I will study the informal rule or the political act. Of the European Union. Putting, all together.

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Or not putting go together but find the definition of the normative message of each. Kind of European rules.

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The in a healthcare system for example I will, This is the main problem.

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How to check the results out to check from a panoropean perspective. So I don't want to do a comparative.

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Job. I don't want to compare member states. I need to find the an idea to check the results to check out the normative message works.

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Considering all the European society. So it's not so easy because finding a method to study.

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Yeah.

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This kind of society. This is why I need them. I thought

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Yeah, cause as you as you describe your method at this point, it's still very illegal. Approach, not socio-.

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So what was striking about your presentation was when you lifted your Water bottle. To say all the information on this water bottle will be the same in Italy or Denmark.

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So, you know, it strikes me that you can look at a material object.

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You know, a water bottle is, but what would be the normative there? Because it's not about water quality.

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Because it's not about water quality, which is you know, that all citizens should have access to good quality water for example, but it's actually something else about production and I don't know maybe it has got something about production and I don't know maybe it has got something about the content of the water.

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So, you know, there's a there's the question of using an object that's similar across.

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But it strikes me that

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Unless you talk with people.

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Yeah, to check my idea.

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That I don't know if you'll get to the question of The normative impact. Does that make sense?

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A chile is in the audience here is also nodding another legal scholar. Yeah, I mean we're all trying to work into disciplinary but I mean the European Union is a perfect place for comparative work.

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Yeah, no, but did I mention the comparative? Madele is not a and European society in just a.

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Now, I mean, the other thing.

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So I want to share the best. You said unless you speak. With people. Which people?

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Yeah.

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So I need to find. People represent representing this kind of space. I thought about, association or for example, considering the matter of water, as a consumer association.

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Yeah.

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For example, Or, or simply the producers of the of the bottles. Try to understand how they base the production considering the European law so I need to find the who

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Okay. Just ask the fancy words. Yeah, or ask the consumers. You can come and join the conversation at chilli.

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Yeah, or ask consumers. The thing that struck me also about your presentation was Article One when you said about the objective in common.

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So again, if we just use the water bottle as one example and that's, you know, there's many other examples.

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Excuse me, I have asthma. Then what's the objective? What's the common objective in the water bottle?

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Okay, the.

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So, so it's the question of identifying. Identifying what's the common objective in whichever subject you choose.

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Yeah, okay. The common objective. I think the first was about So the European, citizens.

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Yep.

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Have fully been a high level of or you can find an object in. Environment so the plastic is done considering the environment.

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The same, considering the quality of water. So it's the single bottle can represent different objectives.

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Yeah.

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Now, so in, see you actually in my work on human dignity. The academic literature. Says that the European Court jurisprudence is in part about using human dignity to create a normative basis for the EU citizen.

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So you could even choose a legal concept like that.

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Or citizenship itself. I know that's a very in important. Question.

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Yes, about citizenship. Okay, of course it's very important and, it's the base of for our rights and fundamental rights.

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But I think it's a 2 big topics. Too big topic. To do my empirical research because when you think about citizenship or the, needs a chart to the charter for momentum rights of European Union.

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He's concerned. So it's too big to conduct an unprecedented search. The, does this kind of research asking do you feel European citizens yes not why and I think that the results of this survey is not so performing.

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Yeah.

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To explain the requirements of some dimension. The question is so general. So I think citizenship is not the right.

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Topic to do my to do my research.

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I think you're spoilt for choice in terms of choosing the concept to examine the normative objective Stefania.

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Yes, hi Bonjour, 1 s.

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Hello. I just lost my power connections. Yeah.

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Aha, okay. So, Monjro, just 1 s please and we'll say thank you to Stefania.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for your suggestion. Hey your questions.

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If you can now stop sharing your screen. And Mondure. Now, Monsieur, you take I will, I think I will hang on a second.

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Okay, okay.

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Now, Monsieur or you take charge of the the zoom controls And share your screen.

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Oh, whether my screen can be seen now. I've shared.

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Oh, we can see you. We can see you. So now. You take charge of the zoom, you know the the bar down the bottom where it says share screen

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Okay, I just shared yeah.

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Oh, do you have your slides open? Here we are. Yeah, there we go.

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Okay. Oh, whether you can see it now.

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Yeah, it's starting to come on now, Monsieur.

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Okay, there we are. Fantastic. So Mongol, as with Stefania, I will come up and say you have 5 min left from your presentation.

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And then I will come up and say you have 2 min left.

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For timing is okay.

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Okay. Then I will go in as in a precise way. So.

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Okay, so Mandarin, you start now, you have control of the sharing. Thank you.

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Oh, thank you so much. Good morning from Bangladesh. My presentation.

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The title is history injustice and displacement of indigenous community from there registered lands and territory.

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It's just study in the Munda community in Bangladesh. And,

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Munda pupils are actually, they're, 3 communities out of 54 in the US Communist.

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They are leaving, Majorly, beside the, Schinderbones, which is the World Heritage Site, which is a big mango for what is one of the biggest bango for the in the world and they are living in these countries about 200 years

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ago. Actually, the landlords, British, colonials and, brought them from the Indian province of Rachi for clearing the forest and making that landing to And, since after 400 years, they are living in Bangladesh and, they're living in

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the lands, but they don't have any land rights still now because of, they were treated as a slave or that they are not actually given the as human beings deserve the right to leave or right to the alliance and have a Good living.

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And then and I focused my study in this community. So we are particularly neglected and out of the mainstream of the country's populations and my obsession is to find the reason behind their.

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Their deprivedness and why they are building their lands and gaps in existing illegal frameworks and suggest necessary recommendations and institutional frameworks need to be upgraded.

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And, I have the choose and feel the participation methods like a, I, and MTVs and also validated in the in the validation workshops welcome communicate while allowing the to, to, to highlight the findings of my study.

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This is the Shamnagar and, 400 years ago, particular, also came in this place for looking for a suitable, place, for looking for a suitable, place for looking for a suitable, place, for And.

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There are different ways in these people are actually, losing their land rights. First of all, the lands they have got from the landlords.

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Eventually, they're taken by the major, Bengali communities, through, developing false documents and, yes, pupils are so, simple people and they are not, so educated like the others.

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So they, they leave on their land, of generation after generation, but never, never actually take care of their records.

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So sometimes, 1, 4, to the, record. So sometimes, one fourth documents, with some people came to, you know, the one fourth documents, with some people came to, you know, challenge their lands.

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They could not actually. And, sometimes these are going to the local case with ports, but those are processes are so ling there and expensive so they cannot afford it.

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And sometimes the historical events stick at the disposition of their lands because You've seen the 1947 when India and, South Korea was divided between India and Pakistan.

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They at that time Munda people are the primary big team and their lands are taken with some of them, they at that time Munda people are the primary big team and their lands are taken with some of the inclination quarters. The primary big team and their lands are taken with some of the inflation quarters.

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Again, when and their lands are taken with some of the inflation quarters. Again, when the commercial rights came in 95, they hit the Muslim, there was a big contradictions.

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And then at the time, there was a big contradictions. And then at the time, Munda people's plans are also taken with some of the in 1971 wired at the times.

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The land so I've taken which are a huge amount of land. So I've taken, which are used in, amount of land.

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Again, recently we have seen that, they'll answer, some, of land.

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Again, recently we have seen that, they'll answer, some inflations and, muscle man.

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I've tried to get the lions that want people to, feel that 12 end June. It's the destiny in August to one and 2,022.

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So the process of from very, beginning of the modern state of. No, but, And we have also seen that, for the world market.

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Shoot farming is expanded in our in the southern Wales and that actually the which is a big trade for the agriculture way of life and the Munda people's and that actually, which is a big trade for the agriculture way of life and the Munda people's plans are taken by the shim plots and they

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were given very little compensation out of their shim plots and they were given very little compensation out of their sheep farming and their livelihood opportunity also decreased because steam farming take very little number of people while they can provide more people to work together.

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So, I have seen that, about last 30 years, the ship farming is not renewing and that actually evicting the Indigenous conversation, other poor sections of the countries.

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So this is the naturally bit trade the ship farming. And for the, So you see here at the shims and you see here the the Vans which are once upon a time worried because now all are saline waters and they could not leave a visit life here because nothing grows here.

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Trees, there's no trees, no cattle. So they cannot raise their lands. They don't have any homes with farming, it's only shim.

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And, when there is no options in the, in the. And then now they are going to the universe and for us and which are common properties.

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And, which are common properties and, but, due to the heavy involvement of the peoples and, but, due to the heavy involvement of the peoples and a number more pupils are now coming to the peoples and a number more pupils are now coming to

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the reverse as far as the resource are deplating rapidly. So some people somehow, you know, counting crabs and, shim fries and some people start going to the forest.

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And, and collecting honey is some people are also legally involved on fortunes, man logging, etc.

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But this is due to the not available topic. And I'm the probability, push them to go to the rivers and forest.

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And we see also those slow answer onset of the climate change impact on them because, the sergeant is increasing and then we see the high tides and, and sometimes certain water included in the agriculture land.

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So it's also a big, for them. And now look at the, our national networks.

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So we know that in group ourselves declared in in, 2,007 and ensuring that they are individual and mcallity price on their traditional territories.

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But, and, but it hardly can be, implemented in Maelandish because, Balunashi, do not accept the term indigenous community.

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And whether it define it's, I think minorities as super only goes to our ethnic manner this other than giving them indigenous titles.

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So, India's peoples are actually deprived of, you know, different, playing their rights.

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As they have declaring in groups. We know the international level organization's declaration on 969 Conference also declared their rights and Lisa couldn't make Montreal.

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Global biodiversity framework, acknowledge that they have a bigger role for conserving the more biodiversity.

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Yeah, but, I, as the indigenous peoples are not getting their entitlement, and so they are deprived of many cases like their customer rights on their land integrity.

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So they could not actually claim their land rights. As per, declaration of UN ribs and other international declarations.

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So, Garmin seems to be reacted to this as the term indigenous people. Which make them millions people are more deprived.

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And, and they need very important to know why government is not accepting the term in the US people and not giving them in the entitlement.

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There is some of the political issues people and not giving them in the entitlement. There is a, some of the political issues like Chelan, which is, where the newspaper was, conflicts and the armed conflicts and it was, there was a peace, resolution in

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like, 97, but still there is a reparation process. You know other tools.

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You know, even in order to, just control the previous people, I think government is not actually interested to give them entitlement.

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It's not actually interested to give them entitlement. So but this is a better violation from the next I would say.

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And, there are many, some sectoral laws in Malays that actually admitted rights of the N people because they are the part of nature and our society and you see in state ecosystem, you're gonna say actually that also recognize their rights and the there is a That is the plan.

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There's a cause that, indigenous people slants cannot be bought by the other, main pupils, to, protect their lands.

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And, also you see, some of the laws are actually good. One eggnest thing is people like the creation of the Lisa forest or the protected forest that actually squeeze their rights on their lines.

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So no, we are seeing that there actually present the whole news people so I went into the shooter most there they need to collect their apartments and they need to pay a certain amount of money to the farthest you are meant to which is actually set to their traditional rights on the forest resources.

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Okay.

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So, I would, now conclude that, So, LAMBs is a major issues and to dissolve the land and the conflict and the legal disputes there is separate and the legal disputes there's separate in land commission needs to be developed as developed.

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And again, their purchase land cannot be purchased by the other peoples. And a state should dollars, I respect indigenous people's customary loss and collective ownership on their on their right to land at which from the basic condition of the indigenous culture.

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It needs to be ensure that she froms are established as per land joining system to protect the agriculture lands.

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Adapting a participatory conservation management design. Again, ensure full and effective participation of Indigenous people while training any policies relating to conducting biodiversity and ecosystem.

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And their free power and informed content needs to be taken. Constitutional recognition of indigenous community and their rights on the traditional land and the tourist needs to be insured.

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And, now I would like to finish, my presentation. I'd be happy if any, if there is any questions.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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Wonderful, so interesting Mongereul and unfortunately so familiar to those of us on colonial settler land like Australia.

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So I have a question, Monsieur. You mentioned that the Bangladesh Constitution does not recognize Indigenous people.

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So there seems to be 2 things you said about the Bangladesh Constitution. One is that it does not recognise Indigenous people, that is, Right?

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Yeah.

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And then the second thing was that it does not recognize collective rights to land. So my question is about changing the Constitution.

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And I ask in part because Australia is preparing to have. A referendum to change our constitution. To recognize First Nations people.

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Through an establishment of a body called The Voice, an advisory body. So, but so to change the Australian Constitution we need to have a referendum.

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And that is a majority of all the people and a majority of the states. So that's our the mechanics that if you like to change the Constitution so what is the mechanics for changing the Bangladesh Constitution.

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Yeah, B is a democratic country, but. Although it's a democratic country, but military is still, actually have a big influence on, when in in, in the, in the politics also.

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And Chitain is very sensitive. It's a sensitive area. It's, nearby the India and also the Myanmar.

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So, so there is that, Yeah, but always there is some kinds of border conflicts up there and these people are often victim of this conflict and to control the TRANGUEULE TRANS military always they are deployed.

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Allongs actually do not want to recognize, the indigenous coveries, but if they recognize the indigenous community, then they need to give the territorial rights of the Indigenous Communities, which is a very difficult for balance this government.

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And, and to obtain their rights or, in Bangladesh, the images communities are regularly protesting and asking and demanding for their legal entitlements.

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Also the civil society members are, regularly, in line with the N people's rights.

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So actually, general people start a soft corner for the communities, but due to the military influence. And, some of the political reasons.

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They are, in technical investments is not given yet. But, I think that, processes as long as we can continue our, movement in Bangladesh.

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Their rights can be achieved on day and they in this regard it also needs to internationals. pressure or the, the countries, some of them are already given the entitlements.

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Those lesson needs to be shared with the countries and some of them are already given the entitlements. Those lesson needs to be shared with the Balanish government and at the same time just want to come into account.

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I'm the corporations in this figure so who can help indigenous peoples to gain their entitlements and other rights.

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This is one. Yeah. Your same question, please.

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Okay. Oh. Well I'll just link my next comment to the first presenter Stefania who is from the from Italy in the United sorry the European Union.

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And it strikes me that The European Union is interested. To create the kind of supra. Identity of the EU citizen But at the same time people retain their identity as Italian or Spanish or French and so forth.

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As different to Bangladesh. Where it sounds as if The Bangladeshi authorities only want there to be one identity which is Bangladeshi.

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No, no, actually, Bandit is not only the case, they, there are some of the ethnic communities, small, they are some of the ethnic communities, small, 6, 6 of the communities who are marginalized.

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They do not want to give the the designation of Indigenous people. They would like to term them as ethnic sect of the country.

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No, okay. So different to indigenous.

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Ethnic small ethnic community like this. But no indigenous community settlement.

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Yeah.

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Okay, so ethnic is different to indigenous. Indigenous creates a a legitimate title to land, whereas ethnic is just anything like Roma in a way, Stefania, if I think about a compareable Roma have no entitlement to land, but they are because they are not related to a specific body of

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land. But they have a specific ethnic identity. Would that be correct, Stefania?

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Yes.

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Yes, we are used to different levels. Considering your Family arrangement. Your actual land and your your national L and then the European one.

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So at least the 4 level of identities.

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And all of those levels of identity. Are actively recognised in EU law. Is that correct?

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Yeah, because the European law, very often mentioned the national tradition. Considering Ola national identities.

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Yeah.

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In Magina in Spain, Catalonia. Er, this kind of event is very, very strong or the identity of North East Italy that, people are almost, So the identity is very very protected even in linguistic sense.

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Hmm.

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So in the northeast of Italy, people speak to languages and both of them are completely recognized. For example, the breaking news.

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Harry in both languages or in school that they the children study in both languages. So the European Union will completely recognise and maybe, consider the differences the force of the European Union.

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So the respect for differences is one of the the core of the European Union.

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Yeah. So Mongol.

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It feels like the fundamental difference is Recognition in Constant A, the Constitution and be in in law.

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The different A difference between the EU andangladesh on this point.

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Yeah, yeah, certainly.

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Hmm. I mean, of course. Here at this ISA conference in Melbourne there's been a strong stream of indigenous scholars from different parts of the world, all of whom.

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Doesn't matter whether it's Australia or Canada or all of whom have experienced what you describe. The dispossession.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And the rejection of their sovereignty. And have different.

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Now, I was going to say different experiences of recognition of their right, their political rights, their inherent so that they can represent themselves and also access to and control of their own land.

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Yes.

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So on the question of political representation as a grouping. Is there like an indigenous people's federation like a council or something like that in Bangladesh?

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You have so many different indigenous groups.

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Yeah, they have about 54 in his groups and actually, the political representations are actually not.

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Exclusively entitled for the names. They can, they can, involve in the election process.

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But they do not have any other especially detachments like you know there are separate sections why we should be held in which in a small session of community is known.

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This is not the case. They need to participate like the other Bengali peoples and they can sometimes win.

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Yeah, in Australia as I said we have this referendum coming up and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, the indigenous peoples are asking for the in terms of changing the Constitution are asking for the establishment of a new body.

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That would be a permanent advisory body that would represent all of the people and there's 250 at least.

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Tribal groupings. And for non Aboriginal Australians. Some of them. Part of the question here is about Does this make us, meaning the Australian people overall?

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More or less. Equal in. Access to political decision making. And so forth.

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So it's a similar argument that you just said, Monsieur.

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But I think in the European circumstance and there's enough what I think of as kind of nodal NO DA L representation, I think about the Sami in the Arctic Circle so they're not they don't have a representative status at the EU, they don't have a representative status at the EU, but they definitely

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have a representative status at the EU, but they definitely have a representative status within Norway and Sweden.

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So it's different, yes?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Okay. Yeah, they are not part of the European Union, but they are like. people in European Union the same of grain Britain now They are not part of the European Union.

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But I guess, that power in a European Union is still working. And, if I can, I would like to add something, about European identity.

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To be honest, they were European identity. That is often rejected by people. Because first of all there is no consciousness of what is European identity.

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Hmm.

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And the Second, the second reason of this rejection. Is the lack of a clear political representation. Because, the, vote only for the election of the rpean parliamentarian but the election is a nationally national based so, there is when I, when I am going.

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When I go to vote for the Italian representative in European Parliament. The political discussion before. For the day of the vote.

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It's about an extra theme. So there is no connection between a European politics teams and the vote in itself.

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And the. So our representatives are the European Parliament. They are based on National, propaganda.

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Yeah.

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And the European Parliament can't propose a law The only situation that can propose a law is the European Commission.

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The members of the European Commission. Are decided by the governments. So the European governments. So I you can imagine there is no connection between Citizens.

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And politics. And this is one of the reason. Because of the rejection of the European identity. Even if II guess, all of Rubyana feel truly European because we live in a European way.

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Yeah.

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But, doesn't recognize this connection.

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Yeah. First fascinating and I think again to draw a link to Manderer's is the question about how the nation state functions in the contemporary world as a kind of boundary in the contemporary world as a kind of boundary in so many different ways.

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State, nation state boundaries.

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But it's a kind of concept, an imagination of sovereignty across boundaries. That is very difficult to make concrete.

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So I'm very aware that we still have Anna. Oh no we don't have Anna on the line anymore.

353
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:45.000
So perhaps. So did you either of you have any questions of each other? About your presentations. I'm sorry, Monsieur, you missed most of Stefania's very interesting also about power and identity and meaning within a complex system.

354
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:54.000
Okay, I can check the the recording part then I can have the Yeah, experience. And I have a specific question.

355
01:03:54.000 --> 01:04:06.000
You know the email group already declared some of the the rights of the biggest corporations and this is applicable throughout the world.

356
01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:07.000
Yeah.

357
01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:15.000
And now you see in Bangladesh, some people came here about 200 years ago. And the link, like in and they are actually part of Indigenous community.

358
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:29.000
Their main community lived in the India and province of Now it's, and they have the particular way of life and subsection of them came in balance.

359
01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:32.000
But as they came after 200, they go, they are not actually entitled as indigenous community because they do not belong to this land.

360
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:40.000
They came from other lands, because they do not belong to this land. They came from other lands, but they came from other lands, but they do not belong to this land.

361
01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:44.000
They came from other lands, but they're seeing only 20 years rather the bill cover is leaning here about 1,000 years.

362
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:57.000
So if we want to give them legal entitlements. So whether do we need to consider the time frame or where a flight which is actually needs to be key needs to be taken in drag out.

363
01:04:57.000 --> 01:05:05.000
How can we make a frame, to understand whether their view is committed or not.

364
01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:18.000
And my immediate response would be that this is not an unusual problem. One only has to think about, think about the United States.

365
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:32.000
I mean a a nation that was colonized, you know, 400 years ago, but still the different people, the original people are the Native Americans.

366
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:41.000
So there is, so you know the question about is it 200 years which is Australia or is it 300 years or is it 500 years?

367
01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:58.000
Is kind of irrelevant. The time question. So then it's a different question about a number of different criteria I imagine about connection to land.

368
01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:07.000
The nature of the relationship to the land. The nature of the colony itself.

369
01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:23.000
I imagine that all of these types of questions are in part considered at the UN International Declaration of Indigenous Peoples or at least in terms of

370
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:36.000
You know the what I don't know the commentary that is often created around such a declaration if it was you know, the ICCPR for example, the convention on civil and political rights.

371
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:54.000
There's case law. There is a specific committee with commentary that you can go to. So I imagine that within the United Nations body that component that deals with the

372
01:06:54.000 --> 01:07:04.000
I drip whatever it is the an acronym that they would have commentary on this very question

373
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:05.000
Yeah.

374
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:15.000
Because you can be in Australia you can be Australian born for 3 4 generations, but you're not indigenous.

375
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:20.000
So the time question doesn't matter.

376
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:21.000
Yeah.

377
01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:38.000
Yeah. Yeah, you have mentioned another point. The collective, ownership of land. And balance government actually do not have any provision of accepting the term, the currency of land.

378
01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:39.000
Yeah.

379
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:42.000
Eating's actually, they're giving in DARK, individual ownership. And co-operative relationships and the state of Russia's, but no collective priorities.

380
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:54.000
But in character you see the news people's lives are mostly in that you know character you see the news people's lives are mostly in nature of collective It's not actually private owned.

381
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:59.000
Hmm.

382
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:11.000
Yep.

383
01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:12.000
Hmm.

384
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:15.000
It's a collegiate societies. It's a collective ownership. So it's actually it's typically the inventory but in boundish, it's not actually yet accepted and this is one of the major challenge to give the legal So government is now turning that unclesified state forest that is not

385
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:20.000
classified. They are turning the need as unclassified. So, classification is only 3 types.

386
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:30.000
State, personal, and cooperative. And as it is, it cannot, define the land.

387
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:44.000
Stating is like that. This is unclassified state for us. And And you see in Jerusalem he'll track serious that most of the lads are at classified state for us where in these companies are living after generation after generations.

388
01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:45.000
Hmm.

389
01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:51.000
And now it's time. He's, unclassified state for just collective properties.

390
01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:57.000
And these collective properties and these collective property ownerships are just collective properties and these collective property properties. And these collective property ownerships is not only in the children, but in other areas.

391
01:08:57.000 --> 01:09:00.000
And these collective property ownerships is not only in the children who guys, but in other reviews of the balance she can be found.

392
01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:08.000
And those plans also needs to be accepted as quality property of the indigenous company. That is, that is one of the major issue of the NIS community.

393
01:09:08.000 --> 01:09:09.000
Yeah.

394
01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:24.000
Yeah, yeah. And a similar situation for Australia. The whole colonial system of law was predicated on what they are legal fiction called Teranolius, that is that there was nobody on the land.

395
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:42.000
And what happened was a legal case to the Australian High Court. Challenging that basic point. That was the Mabo decision, MABO.

396
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:52.000
And from MABO then a number of other Legal consequences flowed in terms of recognizing prior ownership and creating a process.

397
01:09:52.000 --> 01:10:17.000
It's it's none of these processes are perfect. Perhaps if you look around the different Countries, I mean the Philippines is another one with a number of tribal groupings.

398
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:35.000
India, another one. Where. Yeah, where the, you've got similar problems and whether and how The Supreme Court or the High Court has a process.

399
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:46.000
Enable the challenge of these fundamental dispossessions.

400
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:51.000
None of them are easy processes, Monsieur.

401
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:55.000
But they're possible, they're possible, that's the thing.

402
01:10:55.000 --> 01:10:58.000
Yeah.

403
01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:12.000
Okay, so You know, Stefania, you could maybe start to You start your espresso machine and if you want to or have a coffee or a cup of tea in the morning I don't know what Coffee, yeah, Monsieur, I don't know what time it is in

404
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:17.000
Coffee. Without caffeine and because of

405
01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:19.000
Bangladesh. Beg your pardon?

406
01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:22.000
Coffee without a cafe because I'm pregnant. Oh.

407
01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:30.000
Yeah, we do actually is really take, tea. It's so popular here.

408
01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:31.000
Thank you.

409
01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:37.000
Upper tea. So I will go out and have a cup of tea as well. Look, thank you both very much and I have, so.

410
01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:38.000
Yes.

411
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:49.000
Okay, nice. It's nice to share with you well. And these are my actually at least some most of the parts, but I'm lucky that I can enter at the last movements and this is I am very happy for this and I was feeling very sad. I'm okay.

412
01:11:49.000 --> 01:12:00.000
I can present my and now I am very happy to be here again. And I hope that we can connect in future, for to share our studies again.

413
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:11.000
And in some forums and I am writing you out if you have the opportunity to visit part of this and I'll be your host here in Malaysia.

414
01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:21.000
And I have a very small house, but this is very good work to accommodate all of you. And this is very good work to community all of you. My mother is living with me.

415
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:24.000
So she will be also happy to receive you guys. Thank you so much for participation.

416
01:12:24.000 --> 01:12:35.000
What a lovely, invitation, Monsieur. Thank you. So Stefania, also all the best for your the next step in your research.

417
01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:36.000
Yeah.

418
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:55.000
Monterold, please, both of you, but if you need, if you would like to make email contact and ask to be put in connection with Indigenous scholars, Mongol in Australia, Stefania, I'd be really interested to hear more about how you decide on your next step.

419
01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:58.000
Okay.

420
01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:06.000
So thank you both very much indeed and wish you all the best for your work and for your day ahead.

421
01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:07.000
Thank you. Bye.

422
01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:08.000
Thank you. Gotcha.

423
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:09.000
John, bye. Gotcha.