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Okay, shall we begin?

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Oh, hello, everyone. My name is Toby Fittore. I am the in person

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chair for today's session on Critical perspectives on children's rights. Now this Panel has been organized by Denier Reinart at Ferit, from Dunza, Emo and boy to Van and Hole, and unfortunately, but they can't be here. So you're going to have to just put up with me for today. So we have wonderfully. We have 6 presentations.

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for our session today, all examining different aspects of children's rights and children's rights frameworks. So it's going to be an incredible session. So before we begin. But I do want to acknowledge our country, and so on behalf of everyone. Gavin, I pay respect to the spirit of country here in Nam, where we are meeting so acknowledged a past and present call a nation we were. We're we're wrong as the sovereign people here. The cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote Vinam aboriginal law.

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customs and custodianship, responsibilities for the country and the people. That country continues to same generation after generation into the future, and for all of us. So I recognize on our behalf the important contribution. But first nations, thinkers have made sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all first nations delegates in the room today for their contributions to knowledge and discipline. And just to explain those of you who are not familiar with fist process. This is just good manners, right on behalf of people who came in a post-colonial context to recognize the sovereign, an original

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Owners of the land which are the various indigenous nations of this country.

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Okay, so what we'll be doing today is that we have 6 presentations, 10 min each. And because they're you know, this kind of smog is board of wonderful presentations. We will do them back to back. Yeah. And then at the end, we'll have a Q&A session which can be directed to individual presenters or or presenters at once. Okay, so please, if you have any questions, note them down.

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Yeah. And then we we'll have hopefully ample time to about collect the discussion of you. Okay, without forever doing. I would like to introduce Teresa Mordson from Lynn University Demo on, and your presentation is human rights as social service, vernacular rights colleges in a right space and near Liberal India. So thank you very much. Let's been working out.

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Thank you very much for the introduction, and your university is in Sweden. For some reason this is wrong. So, and I think we can all agree that the children's rights is a contextual concept. But what does that mean for our analytical work

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in this presentation? I will argue that if we want to take that claim seriously, that children's rights is contextual, we need to analyze it in conjunction with the other ethical concepts that are at work in a given context. And my context is the Ngo world in India, where I argue that social service is a very important concept that shapes child rights, just as child rights as a concept shaped social service.

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And

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okay, so this is a little image from my field site. It's a district level branch of India's national Helpline for Children child Line. A child line is financed by the Central Indian Government. It's managed by a large Ngo in Mumbai, and then it is implemented by a hundreds of local Ngos throughout the country.

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And it's one of India's largest child rights programs.

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And to most of us, I think child rights implies that children are subject of rights, they are not objects of charity, and that this means that there is a duty bearer. Most often the State that is obliged to implement children's rights.

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And

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but what happens to this concept of rights when the implementation of them are dependent on a voluntary sector.

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During my field work, Ngo employees explained that what they were doing was social service or in Hindi. Samarita.

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as one of the participants explained, a social worker is someone who sees problems, whether they get paid or not, whether they profit or not. Someone who will help anyone that is through social work.

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and a scholar has written about the same concept that it means what you need I have chosen to give.

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so I will try to ethnographically analyze these overlapping and sometimes contradictory discourses of some art saver or social service and child rights.

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So, as I said, my field site was this Ngo in Madhya fladesh, which is a state in Central India, so The Ngo would represent the the lowest circle here, which is a partner agency of a larger Ngo, which is outsourced by the state to implement this program. And and how does this work? So when someone calls the number 19, 8,

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and and the case requires physical intervention, like picking up a child on the street or stopping a child marriage. And then the call is transferred to the relevant partner, Ngo, which is based here at the district level. And there are hundreds of these local Ngos. And it's with one of these that I conducted my field book. And why is this interesting for children's rights because it represents a very complex duty-barer setup in a neoliberal outsourcing practice.

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So I followed this Ngo and the implementation of the Child Lamp Program for 3 months in 2,019, and the data includes interviews, participant observation and document study.

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and my theoretical framework is primarily inspired by Zoomi Maddox vernacular rights cultures.

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and she argues that what we find empirically as expressing rights have their own conceptual histories and political meanings. They are not just local articulations of a global concept.

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or as the Mark Goodale, the central, an anthropologist, has written, we should analyse the broader category of ethical theories that human rights or child rights are embedded in.

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and according to madog, there are hegemonic or universal global rights languages, and then there are vernacular ones, and this is a spectrum, and one of her important points is that we should be careful to not treat what we empirically observe as static or localised or preexisting, while rights are dynamic, or travelling or imported, or rather, we should examine all the concepts we find as dynamic travelling and deported.

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and and this is similar to Sally Engelmere's theories of vernacularization, which I'm also inspired by. But Madox is a little more attentive to epistemic power inequalities.

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So that's what I wanted to do with Sam might saver to take its own conceptual history seriously as a concept that has been shaped by various political and historical forces, and it now is, is now in active use in this Ngo world.

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So just to explain to you a little bit about this concept, it literally means social work or social service. And it's modern views developed in nineteenth century colonial India, closely connected to Christian religious discourses. Later it became a central concept in Hindu reform movements and anti-colonial projects significantly

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Gandhi's Nationalist, one, where it implied a commitment to self suffering and opposition to consumption and growth and development and modern civilisation, and it was based in a language of duty and appeal rather than in rights or assertion.

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And

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but for Gandhi's contemporary Nero, the first Prime Minister of independent India. It was also a framework for the post-colonian developmental welfare State.

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and in contemporary India the term saver has also been appropriated by Hindu Nationalist groups as part of their grassroots work strategy arguably a way to clothe their work in humanitarianism as a service of the Hindu nation. And all these different belief systems that are unrelated to each other. This is just to say that they have all influenced the way that some what some might say that meets today.

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 Okay. So if my field work was located here in Central India, where the Bgp. The Hindu Nationalist Government party, is very present and and the social workers. I talked to. Most of them voted for this party.

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and they understood some I sava as helping, and that that was the same as as giving children their legally guaranteed rights.

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and they considered themselves professional volunteers, and, as one said, as far as I, as far as I have seen, only Ngos do social work. I have not seen it in government. The people working in government just do their duty. Very little social work. Not so much, sa, but they do that very little.

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But at the same time people actually working with government that I also talked to. They also said, We are social worker as and use the same terms. And so it's a. It was a concept that was very semi-governmental. It it worked both in the voluntary and the governmental sector.

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A child line itself was described as an Ngo that gets fund from the government or the government's Ngo.

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 So although the social workers mix these concepts conceptually, they are still very distinct. Siva is something to be given by a benevolent actor, and that can be put in contrast to a right that is to be claimed by a citizen.

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but the and you were because they still connected these 2 terms. And

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and so. yeah, the idea of

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yeah, as one said, here, A good childhood is is that children have a right to live the lifestyle they want. They should get education, they should get good food. They should get clothes. Their care needs to be good. Whatever children want to participate in, they should, whatever their right is, they need to get it.

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So the idea of rights was also important to them. It was not an empty signifier, it had a lot of content related to education, government schemes, etc.

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And

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so, if children's rights were defined in terms of what should be there, the social workers Job was to find in terms of what needs to be done which places the social worker as a key, deliver a giver of children's rights, and connects back to this giver beneficiary logic of Siva.

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So they identified that they, as social workers, had a particular duty as opposed to the State's duty in relation to rights, and their duty was to find beneficiaries for government schemes that would otherwise not reach them and ensure that the structures for rights claiming were in place.

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So in this final section I will argue that these findings around Sav and rights can contribute to refine the way that that we, in a more vernacular way, can conceptualize human rights and child rights.

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So first, What does the discursive overlap between Saman sav and and child rights in this program mean on a theoretical level? Above all, I think it's evidence that the conceptual production of human rights takes place in a lot of different spaces, not only in the hegemonic spaces of international law, and also not only in the vernacular basis of sobalt and struggle, but also in these semi-governmental spaces, like the chat line program, where neoliberalism and rights and sav are overlapped

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and

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and so doing, sailor was equivalent to giving children what they needed, which was equivalent to ensuring that their rights were fulfilled. Social workers were people who could be reliably counted on to provide such services as opposed to the State, who were seeing in need of a push by these social workers to provide them.

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So Siva demonstrates a conflict that exists in a lot of rights-based and your work a conflict between charity discourses and rights discourses.

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There's a hierarchy of helping in Ngo work that does not exist in ideal rights theories, but that exists in practice as soon as someone takes it upon themselves to ensure others rights.

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And so. Lastly, and my rights discourse can be argued to be the opposite of this savage or discourse. Rights appeal to a stable duty bearer, while saver implies a moral and voluntary duty of the social worker.

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The former relies on stable institutions, while the latter relies on the good will of individuals, yet when rights implementation is handed to Ngos. These 2 understandings of duty mix, which result in practices and discourses that move easily between rights claimants, welfare, beneficiaries, professionalism and volunteerism.

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So if we want human rights theory to reflect the ground, we should acknowledge that these these complex relations resist between the State as a stable institutional structure, and that states outsourced or subsidiary due to bearers like service, providing Ngos.

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that will probably also be examined in some of the other papers as well. So our next presenter is

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San Antonita online. Yes.

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So an and Dignita is from the Dr. Via Ambitka University Daily India, and you'll be presenting on

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children suffrage rights, a certain perspective on decolonizing children's rights and childhood

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over to

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Anandini Dar: good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to everyone. I hope you can hear me clearly and can see my screen as well.

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Anandini Dar: So a slight change in my affiliation. which you can see on the slide.

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Anandini Dar: Yes.

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your slides.

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Yes, we can hear you very well, but your slides are blurred.

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Anandini Dar: wonderful. They came into focus just in like magic. Okay, let's continue all right. Great. So I'll jump right in There's limited time today. So children's rights discourses in India and globally are largely guided by the UN United Nations Conventions, the rights of the child of 1,989 particularly, and it's ensuing programs and policies.

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Anandini Dar: Several critiques have since been offered for this convention, particularly relating to the idea that it presents a universalizing and homogeneizing notion of childhood that is based on a Western middle class, modern ideal norm.

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Anandini Dar: Several supporters of the 1989. Convention of the rights of the child, however, have argued that it brought forth the possibility to recognize children as participatory, capable beings whose voices must be heard in matters affecting them.

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Anandini Dar: Yet article 12, supporting children's participatory rights remains limited, despite several models for including children as participants. Article 12 has been treated for either being tokenistic or paternalistic, and ultimately designed to allow children only some part at the Betty rights and not several others.

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Anandini Dar: It also excludes a fundamental right to children in a democracy that is, of suffrage.

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Anandini Dar:  Sorry I should revoke my slide. But the more Carl Hanson and Nam ballet her, for instance, have argued their children's rights. Discourses also tend to pathologize Southern families for not complying with Western use of parenthood, and that the convention hosts several other conceptual biases relating to children and communities in the global South.

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Anandini Dar: In fact, children's rights discourse is focused largely on the poor child of the South, who and Shah, the Valego column said, needs saving, legitimizing the road to access aid by Southern countries, thereby creating financially dependency for them and influencing what programs are to be carried out on the ground.

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Anandini Dar: Such a discourse of child rights can then be understood as another form of neo-colonialism.

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Anandini Dar: scholars like Elizabeth, partner, and congratulations to. argue that the legacy of colonial counters and power dynamics of the New World Order can be witnessed in the ways in which the Crc. Adopts views about children.

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Anandini Dar: The Euro-american centric legacy of human rights and children's rights in particular, cannot be ignored as a starting point for the universally accepted child rights framework.

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Anandini Dar: Hence, to understand the children's equality and rights requires a different epistemological framework.

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Anandini Dar: one that problemizes the colonial matrix of power of the New World order is required.

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Anandini Dar: De-colonial theory seeks to transform Western colonial epistemologies by stressing the importance of creating space for cultural, political and social memories and epistemologies that from different geopolitical contexts.

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Anandini Dar: Hence, by drawing on the ideas of suffrage and democracy of India's constitutional chairperson, a valid activist, political scientist, lawyer, and a later politician, Dr. Pam Raam G. And Baker, I will make a provocation. I will present a different epistemological perspective on rights, and will argue that children are a minority group in India who require the participatory rights of suffrage.

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Anandini Dar: These in turn, can inform children's overall quality and justice, which are becoming extremely essential in current day. Indian democracy. I conclude by highlighting some recent moves made by the children's rights organizations and political parties around children's participatory rights, which highlights the urgency to rethink children's rights beyond the framework of the UN. Crc.

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Anandini Dar: so moving on to and his ideas on universal suffrage

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Anandini Dar: during the colonial period and early independence trouble period. ambeit Kurt is the leading duller activist and Nationalist movement leader, argued that some persons in the country required more protections, both political and social, than others because of their status in society as minorities.

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Anandini Dar: Any group, I think, group of people who are discriminated against or excluded systematically from educational institutions and economic opportunities need further safeguards by the State

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Anandini Dar: scholars like Christopher and Laurenjokumar, notes that a baker argued that the status of a group or an individual as a minority must be determined on the basis of their social, economic, and educational standing.

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Anandini Dar: In fact, in 1,928 Umbrella writes to the Indian Statutory Commission, which is tasked by the British to institute constitutional reform in India, that if a minority has low educational and economic status, then they require greater political protection.

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Anandini Dar: One of the ways to offer political protection, according to umbrella, was through reservations of what Americans call affirmative action for minority, minority groups and communities, both in educational institutions and government jobs and positions.

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Anandini Dar: This form of political protection, though, would not be possible without universal political participation. These 2 had to be advanced together for Maker.

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Anandini Dar: and it is no surprise that when he submitted another statement to the Indian Statutory Commission in 1,929 counter and debates by the British to limit the franchise to only a few Indians, he posited the need for franchise to be recognized as a right for all, and not a privilege or a favor for some.

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Anandini Dar: and you can read the quote here on the screen. that details what he was talking about enfranchisement.

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Anandini Dar: Some of the criteria employed to restrict franchise to minorities by the British were either literacy levels

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Anandini Dar: or the status as poor and incapable of being.

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Anandini Dar: however, Baker sufficiently refutes these points by drawing on the logic of how people vote that is based on their own personal agendas and interests.

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Anandini Dar: and that the responsibility of literacy is on that state

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Anandini Dar: rather than the individual, and it cannot be a criteria for excluding some persons from having the right to vote.

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Anandini Dar: India's literacy rates continue to rise, however, no illiterate adult is excluded from the right to vote. Hence literacy test is a criteria to exclude children from suffrages of law and a bogus idea.

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Anandini Dar: To have children at the mercy of the adult enfranchised population would mean that the adult is discourse of democracy and universal child rights framework would continue to dominate the agenda for children's justice in India, with little consideration for transformation of the lives or of democracy itself.

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Anandini Dar: Young people suffer the most discriminations against economic opportunities

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Anandini Dar: that are safe for the health and status, and are excluded from social and educational opportunities. Despite the right to education of 2,010

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Anandini Dar: marginalized children particularly dull it and adversity. Children face discriminations at the hands of the teachers and peers, even if they are provided access to education, and several scholars written about this more recently.

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Anandini Dar: children, particularly the most disadvantaged ones, ought not to be at the mercy of the enfranchised adults or privileged peers, and should have the right to vote along with guaranteed safeguards as a way to ensure their political participation.

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Anandini Dar: This can guarantee that they are not at the mercy of the adults working for children's welfare, such as social workers and children's rights organizations or politicians alone. As I discussed next.

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Anandini Dar: so

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Anandini Dar: there have been some distinguished models of children's political participation in India, such as the children's neighborhood parliaments and bald senses like those across Tamenadu and Telonia and Rajasthan these forums include children as community members of Parliament, with designations such as Prime Ministers and Ministers of education, housing, and so forth.

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Anandini Dar: that you know, within local regions which resemble the larger parliamentary system

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Anandini Dar: along with community members, have been able to, however, resolve and meet needs in their local level, such as installing sewage pipes, getting a liquor shop to relocate away from the route the children take to schools, and so forth, indicating both children's capacities and abilities to truck, perform tasks of governance and justice. However, such initiatives largely replicate as models of the larger political coming system, and children are unable to bring structural change to their own position in society, educationally, economically, and socially.

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Anandini Dar: Any children's Ngos are beginning to recognize the gaps, insurance, participation forum, such as Parliament, such as child parliaments.

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Anandini Dar: and these have not brought about necessary shifts in increasing national budgets for children's agendas, or drawing attention of State parties towards the welfare and justice.

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Anandini Dar: In fact, most indicators measuring children's well-being do not indicate much change to their situations pertaining to. For instance, child abuse, child marriage, early marriage, and so on. More recently, several local and international children's Ngos developed what they call the children's manifesto to submit to members of the political parties contesting in the 2,019 elections. This manifesto captures

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Anandini Dar: demands pertaining to children's needs, as there is sufficient evidence that children's voices in concern are not heard by political representatives. The members of around 50 Ngos that came together together to present your this children's manifesto to various political parties, argue for the need for children to directly express their demands to political parties and members who are the key decision-makers and implementers in any democracy.

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Anandini Dar: The challenge with this approach, however, is that, despite these manifesto children's issues to not get sufficient attention to national budgets, laws, and policies. Further, these children's organizations also remain largely guided by the Uncrc. And their framework in their work, which does not account for children's to direct political participation through the right to vote, and could otherwise

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Anandini Dar: provide a direct part for children's inclusion increasingly enough to political parties in India are also quite

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Anandini Dar: tuned into the contributions of children as citizens and political participants.

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Anandini Dar: albeit, of course, not as direct representatives in their own right. In 2,021 of the leading national political parties instituted a children's wing to the organization

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Anandini Dar: which is called Java. Her Balmunch, named after the first Pm. Of India, Prime Minister of India. The idea of this Java, her children's forum, is to groom young children between the ages of 7 to 8 years as future architects of India.

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Anandini Dar: While the opposition party finds this problematic and the National Commission for the protection of Child Rights, which was set up after the ratification of the Uncrs in India, expressed concern over this branch of the party as clouting uncrc norms.

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Anandini Dar: It is not new that political agendas of nation building reside on children of the nation.

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Anandini Dar: Several scholars, such as Sakhar do saints or the perceive car, have argued about the ways in which children are trained as future good citizens, and often symbolize the nation in its future.

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Anandini Dar: Even the current Pm. Of India is tapped into this youth, potential and frequently organizes lectures for children, particularly on occasions like Teachers Day, which is celebrated annually discussing the nation its future as that which is linked to their citizenship and contribution, but, of course, of a certain kind alone.

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Anandini Dar: Hence both children's rights organizations and political parties in India recognize children as capable civic citizens and participants, but only use children for advancing their adult. This agenda of nation building which children themselves remain outside of a democratic framework as future citizens, voicing their concerns, but not painfully heard.

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Anandini Dar: I won't go into a little bit more on you, you know student movements and protests recently, and how they've been spotted by the Government. But just conclude by adding that you know Baker had pointed out during India's trouble of and for independence, that a democracy must give a respectful hearing to all those who are worth listening to.

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Anandini Dar: It is evidently clear that adult politicians and parties recognize children's worth, yet continue to work, make no efforts to fully include them or listen to them through their right to vote a basic human right ensuring inclusion for all in a democracy.

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Anandini Dar: Furthermore, backered scholars have pointed out that democracy for him was not a fixed idea of governance, and required constant evolution by future generations. As for their needs and expectations. In other words, a democracy ought to be transformative, and in such a manner so as to ensure that social and economic equality is ensured to all people, including children.

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Anandini Dar: I'm just wrapping up. This would require that democracy, such as India, rethink their universal suffrage norms and include children as voters irrespective of what age they choose to cast their vote.

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Anandini Dar: It is in this way that I propose to provocatively, of course, to decolonize children's rights. Besides, by sidestepping the Colonial, you, and Crc. Framework and reimagining a democracy that is in to. Of all persons, as I have reflected on ideas of democracy advanced by the Southern Theists today and children are fully capable beings who are already part of several political discourses. And a democracy needs to create space for them through their vote

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Anandini Dar: so institutions their own representatives and transform a democracy as well. Thank you.

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Thank you so much. And Undini. So we'll move on to our next presentation. Probably, Sebastian. I should pick it from the Maria for August. So university in Holland. My apologies are very. It's like manual for you, and you'll be presenting our children's rights. As for weapons of a week.

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Okay.

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good afternoon, everyone. yes. My name is Bashar Vucic, and my presentation today is children's rights as weapons of the week. I'm a philosopher, and this is drawn. This work is drawn from my research at Ucl in applied history, related to childhood and education. Now I'm going to be covering about 100 years of children's rights history in about 10 min. So bear with me hopefully. I'm going to get you to have some seeds of doubt

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about some tightly held assumptions, especially that children's rights were conceived in the so-called West.

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Okay.

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it's just okay. So generally, we have this kind of a history of child rights. This is just drawn from Unicef with the timeline that talks about the United Nations General Assembly adopting the Convention in 1,989. We have here Unicef Being established after the Second World War.

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with Maurice Pate as the executive director and the timeline generally focuses

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from its origins of the League of Nations, adopting the Geneva Declaration on the rights of the child as drafted by Eglatine Jeb, the founder of Save the children.

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Now, if we take a critical.

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Yes, thank you.

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So if we take a critical history of children's rights some scholarship now acknowledges that Poland was the Nation State that proposed the Convention on the rights of the child, and they also go as far as recognising that Janos Korchak. The Polish Jewish doctor and educator, was the inspiration that influence behind that proposal.

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However, I want to go a little bit further with a few of the historians who recognise Poland as repeatedly setting off chains of events that led to new nation States. Here, at the collapse of empires.

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and again during the Communist era to fragment the Soviet bloc. So if we have a look at the working group for the convention for the Crc. We have the head of the the chair of that working group, Professor Adam Watka, and he gives us quite a lot of insight on the conflict which went over 10 years

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in the final moment of of adopting. I suppose they always talk about that fast ratification, and they don't focus on the 10 years of conflict. Now 2 key points to take from that. Firstly, the Polish delegation expected that most of the hostility would come from what they call the mighty West.

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and they assumed that their support would come from so called developing countries. Now, secondly, you'll note that I popped in the Polish Pope John Paul Ii. And he says that this would have never occurred without the support of the Pope, which gives us some interesting questions already.

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Okay, one of the other things I want to draw your attention. You'll notice that the unicef founder has suddenly changed to the Polish Jewish Dr. Ludwig Reichman, who's eliminated out of Unicef history now, and he has also developed the precursor for the World Health Organization here.

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Hence this is the area that I will focus on.

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Okay. all right. So if we take a look at the Poland's drafting process of the convention. We have to remember that Poland was part of the Soviet bloc part of the Communist bloc with Russia and deeply embroiled in the cold war with you know, against America and Western Europe. Now, if you have a look at these categories. We're used to the 3 piece, the provision protection participation.

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whereas we see the Polish conception focusing very much. So. The emphasis is on political, socioeconomic and cultural rights which reflects the Polish struggle, historic struggle for independence and freedom.

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Okay.

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so most of you may be familiar with the master's tools, the concept of the master's tools which I actually dispute.

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that the masters, tools, will dismantle the master's house. So in my research, I cover the areas of medicine, law, education, and language. Obviously for time, we'll just have a little focus on medicine. And specifically, the role played by doctors. So if we go to the World War one. And we have a look at doctors during that period advocating for a new vision of citizenship rights, recognising human rights from birth.

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Okay, so the devastation of World War. One triggered, rapid humanitarian efforts prevent the starvation of people, but also to stop the typhus epidemic from reaching the West and turning into a pandemic. What we find is that the crisis offered opportunities for international leadership, and the polls were better prepared and resourced.

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In other words, they were basically a better fit for these new emergency circumstances which required transnational cooperation up the top, but also local organisation of hands on medical care on the ground. So the polls then used these grassroots networks in decolonization strategies to gain an advantage over their oppressors, win over their enemies and hold their ground.

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Some of the players. Okay, we've got the official narrative of save the children is now being questioned, and People are starting to recognise that it was not Aglatene Jeb, but her sister, Dorothy Buxton, who headed that organisation. But I want to go past the sort of the charade of these sisters, because that still gives us a London centric focus.

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And I want to look more on the recipients of the aid rather than looking at them as merely victims, and

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and I suppose, challenging that narrative that underestimates the actual role of the international Aid program in shaping and being shaped by a political agenda. So we have a Polish committee established by a world-famous musician.

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Who later becomes Prime Minister.

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and he cooperates in Switzerland with 174 foreign organisations. We have the Vatican's involvement. Here we again. We have Lukew Reichmann, and we have American businessman, Herbert Hoover and J. D. Rockefeller. Now, when you start to put the meteoric rise of Save the children into this context.

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We now understand a little bit more about the international tactics that better explain how that organization came into being.

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One thing you'll notice is the picture of the children children themselves. This photo dates back to one one, and the years of the children's strikes. Often there's a criticism about the lack of children's involvement, whereas if you take the Polish narrative, we have children at the forefront, this is where our timeline begins. And it's quite interesting. I met somebody actually at this Congress who told me her great-grandmother is one of these children.

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Okay, so we always encountered this idea of that imagery of children as passive, traumatized victims of war, whereas in the Polish Psyche this is deeply in grain. The little insurgent controversial portrayal. As you can see, a child wearing a soldier's uniform and holding a rifle. But this is the Testament to difficult childhoods.

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Okay.

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during World War one. There was. There was no Poland, it was ruled by 3 empires, Russian, Prussian, Austro-hungarian, and war brought immense suffering to the people, and but we had the revolutionary movements, who had prepared for years to take advantage of that moment of emergency crisis chaos, confusion, destabilising the official hierarchies.

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and many of the times. They acted poor actors through women and young people. I'm going to fly through a few things now. so this is about, I suppose, secularizing and deep politicizing

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their campaign, as you'll see. Save the children. A fund appeared in 1,990 yet we have posters of Save the children in 1,916 very different imagery.

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And there was huge criticism from the international community, and they had to depoliticize quickly and suddenly. You see these images.

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Okay. So the provider for American aid coming into into Poland to the new, sorry to the new Polish government, where they had the World's First Ministry of Health

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was that it would be handed over to local people. The Pappd Committee, which was established by Herbert Hoover, originally by his networks, relied on local staff and local volunteers, mainly women. It gave women the opportunity to gain experience in good governance and economic management.

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One of the key aspects is this, this ministry spoke directly to women and children as agents to take care of their own health, and also the health of others. You see very patriotic imagery about about the the role that they were to play. And we have Janos Korchat sitting on that board. So we see a lot of participatory approaches

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calling out to children to set up their own junior Red Cross circles in their villages and schools.

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So some of you may be familiar with that concept of children's republics associated with Yanish Kortak, self-government, children's parliaments, children's courts. But although he was probably the most famous case, he was the popularizer through children's literature, through journals

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addressing teachers, social workers, etc. There were many other examples across Poland. Here, for example, we have a sanatorium child led for children recovering from illness, and they were entrusted with handling medical records and the dispensing of medicine.

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This builds upon a history dating back to the nineteenth century of children's cooperatives. So this was a broader trend of participatory democracy that often an alternative to capitalism and socialism. These were consumer cooperatives, and they aim to extend the economic and political sphere to every member of society, and they became synonymous with citizenship.

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So initially, the action was designed to bring solidarity between the peasant, the worker and the intellectual, but of course it extended to the child and the estimates. During free Poland of the interwar period there were over a million in children involved in running children's cooperatives.

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So Poland today, we still have children's school and bank cooperatives in Poland today. But this history is hardly known, and often it's associated as being a relic of Communism rather than a relic of grassroots. Mutual aid struggle.

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The principle, however, of the society precedes the State remains embedded within that Polish Psyche. And it's something that we saw in that grassroots response to Ukrainian refugees.

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I'll conclude with one of my favourite posters. This is a 19 thirties poster that was released in Poland on the tenth anniversary of the Geneva Declaration. And, as you can see, it's a parody of babies and the Suffragettes, and they're violently protesting to get there to get their rights.

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So I'd just like to finish up that my findings emphasised that scholars should embrace this political dimension in the child right story, and you can draw directly on histories of disruption that are found in the revolutionary networks in early twentieth century for lessons in democracy and citizenship useful for today.

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Thank you for that. That compelling historical analysis children's rights. much to think about. I think it's a book in 10 min. so We now have the pleasure of listening to Monica Patterson from Carlson University in Canada, and you will be presenting ethics, first, participation, navigating retentions within collaborative research with children in South Africa. So please over to you. Monica

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is

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yes.

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Anandini Dar: Monica, you're on mute.

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So, my God.

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just to go back to the beginning. We just also put in closed captions on so you can. We haven't started a time yet, so you can go back to your initial slide and and we'll get going.

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We can't hear you.

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Monica Patterson: Can you hear me now?

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We can hear you now, and now we can see you as well. Right? Okay, fantastic.

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Monica Patterson: So thank you so much. I'm going to start with the question. I'm interested in asking if attempts to protect vulnerable subjects contribute to their further silencing in terms of not just whether they can participate in academic research projects.

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Monica Patterson: But what constraints are imposed on our participation, and the research and public scholarship outputs that it produces and spoiler alert. The answer to that question, I believe, is yes.

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Monica Patterson: and I'm encountering many challenges in my attempts to start a new research project centered on children's metiology.

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Monica Patterson: So this is something that I define as the production of museum content and programming, not just for or about children, but also by and with children in ways that engage them as valued social actors and knowledge bearers.

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Monica Patterson: So this project seeks to

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Monica Patterson: erez Agmoni creates collaborative curating with children opportunities as a means of learning from their knowledge and perspective. So I'm really working at the intersection of Arts and museiology, and also attempting to produce knowledge out of this experience 150

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Monica Patterson: framed within social Science and humanities, approaches.

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Monica Patterson: So for this work I've partnered with 2 local organizations.

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Monica Patterson: These are grassroots, non-profits that have long histories in the country of South Africa.

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Monica Patterson: They both started in the mid 1,900 eightys during the height of apartheid in South Africa.

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Monica Patterson: and they both are centered around philosophies that were quite ahead of their time.

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Monica Patterson: both in terms of the UN. Convention on the rights of of the child from 1,989, and the new social studies of childhood that emerged in the 19 nineties with its focus on children's agency.

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Monica Patterson: So for quite some time these organizations have recognized children as important members of society. I'm going to quickly show you some images to try to give you a sense of these organizations.

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Monica Patterson: this is from the children's movement. You can see in the background. There's a photograph where individual children can be discerned.

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Monica Patterson: The children's movement is predicated on the idea that children have the capacity and interest in organizing themselves. and should actively shape the quality of democracy and life in general.

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Monica Patterson: So this is really drawing from this rich history in South Africa, of social movements.

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Monica Patterson: and carving out a space. For at this point more than 5,000 members between the ages of 7 and 14.

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Monica Patterson: This is taken from the website of Molosongolo, and that means, Hello, Centipede. And you see, Kosa, one of the local languages here.

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Monica Patterson: Their vision is that all children should enjoy their rights and their rights are respected in a free, safe, and caring environment. So here you see an active member

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Monica Patterson: again, recognizable and featured on the website.

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Monica Patterson: a lot of the work in both organizations, centers around peer to peer

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Monica Patterson: dialogue and education and organization.

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Monica Patterson: So these young people are actively involved in discussions and action around political issues. And they're deeply invested in manifesting social and political change.

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Monica Patterson: This is a final image that I'll show you

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Monica Patterson: and

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Monica Patterson: what I found in my own attempts to get my projects through ethical clearance which is still ongoing.

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Monica Patterson: is that

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Monica Patterson: There are some major, I think, structural and institutional challenges that are essentially blocking children's participation. And so I'd like to run through some of those quickly.

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Monica Patterson: The first is the implications of perceived vulnerability and vulnerabilities. So

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Monica Patterson: and so, what I've experienced is that the children I'm working with are based in deeply impoverished areas in 150

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Monica Patterson: informal settlements

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Monica Patterson: for some of them, and this perception of their their vulnerability with the Institutional Ethics Review Board

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Monica Patterson: has completely overshadowed pretty much all else. So things that this is coming from a fear of

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Monica Patterson: obviously of risk, and as trauma, and as the triggering that past trauma is might invoke in any sort of a research context.

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Monica Patterson: But the end result of this is that it's it's leading to a lot of exclusion of certain kinds of children and participants.

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Monica Patterson: Another challenge I'm facing. And again, I'll just remind you that my desired outcome is to produce with these young people curated exhibits using materials and

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Monica Patterson: various things of their choosing. So the default in Ethics Review boards is to always anonymize children.

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Monica Patterson: I found that this is a major problem for the young people I'm working with, who are deeply invested in their labor and their creative activity.

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Monica Patterson: So if, for instance, they are going to be producing artwork

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Monica Patterson: or writing text.

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Monica Patterson: or being interviewed. They want their names associated with their own words and ideas and creative outputs.

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Monica Patterson: So because ethics review boards are focused on potential harm and probably more likely litigation. They tend to see risk and vulnerability rather than resilience.

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Monica Patterson: I've also run into some challenges based on the requirements that these fears and concerns can result in, namely, in terms of surveillance permissions. I mentioned anonymity and other factors that effectively exclude or dissuade researcher participants and researchers alike from working with children from historically marginalized groups.

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Monica Patterson: so the additional requirements and bureaucracy are already a challenge as well. and review boards are not always knowledgeable of, or receptive to child-centered approaches. I found.

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Monica Patterson: So these are crucial to allowing participants to help

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Monica Patterson: in the research design as well as the research itself. so so what's referred to as emergent research and the use of participatory methods?

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Monica Patterson: has proven to be very difficult to explain

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Monica Patterson: to a board who wants to know all of the topics that will be discussed and all of the research questions. So for those of us working in a kind of more organic.

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Monica Patterson: place-based way, it can be extremely time consuming and and even impossible to conduct our research based on the profiles of these committees.

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Monica Patterson: A final factor worth noting is that. in my, in my personal experience, there's very little understanding of the conditions in the global South. So as I've been talking to colleagues at my institution. I'm finding that there is a large burden of of education that has to take place.

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Monica Patterson: and we're still hitting up against some very colonial mentalities and and ideologies in terms of what the perception of our research context can be.

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Monica Patterson: So

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Monica Patterson: as I've been talking to others who are facing similar challenges, I've I've realized that the large picture results of these challenges is that there is a dearth of research being done in certain places and with certain people. And the way that I've seen this panel is that

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Monica Patterson: it's it's helpful to think sort of intersectionally and about historical marginalization. So with the additional layers and levels of marginalization. So if you're if you're poor, if you are

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Monica Patterson: if you are a person of color, if you are a girl, if you are gender, fluid or clear. All of these things. have a tendency to accrue. So the sort of more multiply marginalize that research participants are, the less likely it is that their voices and perspectives are being access through researchers.

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Monica Patterson: These tensions between the ethics, protocols and children's participation raise much larger issues. including epistemological issues. This, this is really about knowledge production.

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Monica Patterson: So what can we know of society if the knowledge and perspectives of children are not included?

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Monica Patterson: and the deficit base approaches to understanding certain demographics within our societies. I believe, is further disempowering and silencing them.

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Monica Patterson: There are also legal issues in terms of how childhood is defined. which, of course, comes with many repercussions. How do these relate to more fluid and contextual social understandings of childhood and youth?

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Monica Patterson: And finally, how do they shape or constrain opportunities. life opportunities for these groups?

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Monica Patterson: There are also ethical issues, including what risks and dangers come with children's self-expression, organization, activism.

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Monica Patterson: and activity. How can these rights be balanced with the need to protect children in highly variable contexts of vastly different degrees of security, vulnerability. and access to resources.

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Monica Patterson: Who and how should these decisions be made?

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Monica Patterson: There are political issues as well.

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Monica Patterson: So I asked, to excessively risk averse protectionist approaches to working with children, reproduce and deep in forms of historical marginalization, privilege, and access.

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Monica Patterson: How did these approaches relate to structural inequality and future possibilities? And finally.

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Monica Patterson: there are institutional challenges. How can generalized requirements and time-consuming bureaucratic processes better accommodate the specific circumstances of local contexts?

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Monica Patterson: The big question here for me in this project is, how do we decolonize our institutions.

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Monica Patterson: So with that, I'd like to close with a very powerful quote from the late-grade bell hooks who said, Most children are amazing critical thinkers before we silence them.

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Monica Patterson: My concern here is that the institutional requirements, particularly in

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Monica Patterson: the global minority contexts, are effectively silencing and limiting the knowledge and participation of our young people

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Monica Patterson: in the global South. Thank you very much.

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Thank you, Monica, for the analysis of ethical issues, I'm sure. But there are many researchers here. If you can also relate to some issues that you have raised. Okay. So now we would like to move on. We'll go back to our next biggest Pirano Gatin. Yep, and from Batar it's due to circumstances in Mumbai, India, and you'll you'll be presenting on child rights in Situations farm conflict

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because it the for it.

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Good evening, everyone. So my presentation is on findings of my Phd. Research on child. Right situation in Indian administered Kashmir.

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First, I'll give a brief background of Kashmir conflict. So at the time of independence of British India, the State of Jama and Kashmir was one of the 565 princely states that were given an option of joining either India or Pakistan. So Kashmir was ruled by a Hindu king who acceded to India, but it was but a plebiscite was to be held to determine the will of the Kashmiri people.

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UN resolution number 47 also recommended Lebeside. However, the plebiscite could not be held due to difference of opinions between India and Pakistan and different interpretations of UN Security Council resolutions. In 1949 the UN brokered a ceasefire that split the disputed Jammu and Kashmir territory between India and Pakistan. India was given control of 2 thirds of the region, while the remaining was given to Pakistan.

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India's constitution granted special status and internal autonomy to Kashmir through Article 370.

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However, continuous erosion of special status, broken promise of plebiscite rigging of elections led to armed movement for self-determination. In Kashmir.

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Non-state armed groups were also responsible for killings of civilians who were perceived to be working for the Indian State, like political workers, village heads, spies and informers.

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counter-insurgency operations by the Indian State led to massive human rights violations

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through enforcement of Draconian laws, daily rates of houses, custodial torture, including of children in forced disappearances, fighting on unarmed protesters, indiscriminate arrest, sexual assault, arbitrary detentions.

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estimates of death, due to violence, range, from 43,000 to but 100,000, and disappearances from 8,000 to 4,000

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local human rights groups in Kashmir have documented that since 2,003 on an average. Every year at least 26 children were killed, either by government forces or militants, unidentified gunmen.

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explosions caused by littered cells or grenade blast, or because of the shelling between India and Pakistani forces at the line of control. Children were also used as informers by the State security forces, and recruited as child soldiers by the non State. Armed groups.

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Conflict affected tourism and trade industry, constant curfews and herthals resulted in loss of working days for daily wage earners. The directive impact of such economic hardships led to an increase in child labour, to supplement family income which resulted in school dropouts.

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physical injuries, mental health problems like Ptsd, fearfulness, depression, sleep, problems, visual impairment caused by the use of pellet guns are some of the health hazards accentuated by the conflict. Situations.

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schools, colleges, and other educational institutions were used as military bases, interrogation centers, and military posts by the army, constant encounters, glass strikes, curfews, and burnings of schools by unidentified gunmen led to the growth of fear psychosis among children contributing to school dropouts.

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So how the conflict led to the growing crisis of orphans in Kashmir as per the study by the save the children. In 2,011 there are 214,000 orphans in Kashmir.

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and 37% of them were orphaned because of the conflict. Most crucial problems that children faced after the death of their father included economic hardships, psychological setback, denial of love and affection and apathy by relatives and friends. Many orphans experience various symptoms of trauma, lack of proper authority, socialization and social control also makes orphans vulnerable to delinquency.

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The presence of professional services for physical, social, and psychological support are scars in the State, and are rendered by very few institutions.

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What was the government response to the rehabilitation of orphans and widows. So there are 4 major subgroups of widows and orphans in Kashmir. They are widows and orphans of Indian military forces, of paramilitary security forces of Jammu and Kashmir police forces, and of non-state armed groups and civilians. So the State support first, 3 categories of orphans through pension employment to one member in the family fellowship, scholarship, reservation, and professional educational institutions for children.

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But, on the other hand, widows and orphans of non-state armed groups and civilians face more hardships.

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Few rehabilitation schemes initiated by the State are an ex glacier amount of ₹500,000 to the next skin of the disease. In the employment of one member of the affected family. However, families of persons killed by so State security forces and families of non-state armed groups are not eligible to avail benefit of this scheme.

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Another one was victims for victims of militancy scheme under which the orphans of conflict are assisted. Financially, however, family income from all sources should be less than rupees 2,000 per month. This criteria disqualifies most of the families

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from claiming the aid, as the income slab is too nominal, another one is prematric and postmatric scholarship for children without parental support, who belong who belong to families falling below the forward Deli.

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the discriminatory rehabilitation schemes of the Government. Ineffective implementation of the schemes and meager family income as eligibility criteria, were unable to address the crisis of our friends. This led to the growth of childcare institutions, orphanages in the state and institutionalization of children without adequate parental support.

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So an institution is a generic name for a variety of residential care. Facilities, residential or institutional care can be defined as a group living arrangement for children, in which care is enumerated by adults who would not be regarded as traditional carers within the Rider Society. Unicef estimates that globally over 2 million children are living in institutional care

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so prior to armed insurgency in Kashmir the State had only one orphanage, one childcare institution run by Ngo, and only 2 homes run by the social Welfare department.

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But the three-decade-long conflict made a paradigm shift in relation to care and protection of orphans. In Kashmir there has been increased number of orphans as a result of loss of lives due to armed conflict.

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Majority of traditional structures for the care and protection of children like extended family support system. The community-based support system from Mahala mustard committees also witness changes. There was a shift from traditional joint family system to nuclear family system. All these led to the growth of institutional care in Kashmir.

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Other reasons for institutionalization includes absence of help from relatives, poverty of relatives, non availability of guardian in case of second marriage, of mother and lack of acceptance from stepfather, insecurity, fear, and harassment by security forces or non state armed groups.

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juvenile justice system in India, the concept and philosophy. So the freeze. juvenile justice is generally understood as referring to laws governing children committing offences.

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But in India juvenile Justice Act includes 2 categories, children in need of care and protection, and children in conflict with law.

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So the doctrine of parents, Patr is the guiding principle, however, in conflict zones like Kashmir, the State transform itself into a security state where the rhetoric of defending national security leads to human rights violations, including violations of child rights, despite children being one of the most vulnerable groups in situations of armed conflict, the State prioritized law and order over children rights which explains the delay in bringing juveniles the system to Kashmir.

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So the the juvenile justice system of the the Act of India did not extend to the State of Kashmir earlier because of the distinctive constitutional relationship

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accorded by Article 3 70 until fifth August, 2,019. However, the special status did not impede State of Kashmir from exercising power to pass any beneficial legislation for its own citizens. But the lack of political will, the priority on controlling law and order, instead of prioritizing child rights, led to the delay in bringing Jj's system in Kashmir. On the other hand, civil society activists of Kashmir were also in state of paradox.

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since advocating for an Indian app, even if it's beneficial for their own children would be perceived as collaborating with the State at the time, and the movement for self determination was at its speed, but eventually, due to the efforts of human rights organizations and international Ngos, Jj. Act in Kashmir was finally passed in 2,013, and after abrogation of Article 370 on in 2,019. The Indian Act will now extend to

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Jammu and Kashmir. Now, what was the implications of absence of Jj's system on child Rights in Kashmir. Earlier juvenile offenders were also kept in adult prisons, and even subjected to torture.

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and a few Ngos were also So. A few fake injures were also established to make profit in the name of helping orphans, and because of the absence of Jj's system there was no monitoring earlier.

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What are the challenges faced by the orphanages in conflict situations and general challenges? So children show symptoms of Ptsd. But these Cci's lack professional counselors. There are funding challenges because of stringent foreign donor laws, inspection by bodies like in Ni A, which investigate terror charges.

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What are the survival set strategies adopted by these Ngos and orphanages. Like they say they, they are a political and neutral, just to just to

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avoid being targeted either by the state actors or by the non-state actors. They hold medicines and food because, curfews and Hartars are unpredictable. So these are some of the survival strategies. What are the challenges faced by the orphan youth after they leave orphanage at the age of 18. Mostly the challenges faced by orphan who are whose fathers were in our non state armed groups and were killed by the State forces.

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They are denied government jobs, and they face

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problems and difficulties in getting travel documents like passport and family relatives, marriage as a means of rehabilitation for female orphaned youth.

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Kashmiri youth studying or employed in other states of India, sometimes face harassment during India Pakistan matches, or whenever there is any militant attack on Indian soldiers in Kashmir.

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This is my conclusion

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that, due to the vast complexities and problems faced by the children in conflict zones. There should be special section under the Jj. Act for dealing with children in conflict zones. The homogeneization of children fails, address the unique circumstances posed in conflict zones and disturbed areas. There is a need for an overarching rehabilitation policy on conflict, affected children in areas of civil unrest

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which takes into account the multi-dimensional impact of conflict on children which is non-discriminatory in its approach, and does not exclude children whose parents were in non-state armed groups, and which adopts a non-punitive and restorative approach towards children involved in strife with the State.

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very much.

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very importantly, quite harrowing

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presentation about the big situation of orphans in Kashmir.

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Okay? So now we have is a barrier marker from Newfoundland University in Nuderbourg, and you'll be presenting on child participation, and for to be heard community rights in progressive school education in the Us. Hawaii sovereign. If you want to share your slides, if you have them. The floor is yours.

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So, Vilena, you're muted, and we can't see any slug perfect. We can hear you.

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and you have slides to share.

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Verena Marke: Yes, I'm trying to share them. Second, it's a bit slow today.

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Verena Marke: So here we go.

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Great.

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Verena Marke: So we are. thank you for for the warm welcome and good morning from Germany. I want to introduce you to my current research cooperation of the Lafana University of Rhinobourg and the University of Hawaii. 2.

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Verena Marke: I wonder how the difference premise of childhood and adulthood, and the distinction and special rights and special status contributes to the reproduction of social inequalities.

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Verena Marke: I will show a progressive approach to education in the Us. Island State of Hawaii that that negotiates democratic community rights over special group rights. However, it's also worth noting that the Us. Is the only UN. Member State that has not ratified the UN. Convention on the rights of the child.

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Verena Marke: The progressive approach, according to Dewey and Lipman, is called p. 4 c. Philosophy for children.

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or shared thinking according to the Godski.

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Verena Marke: In the following I showed the state of research on conceptual approaches to p. 4, c. Hawaii and a community rights-based approach as well as my own research project. In the summer 2,022 and some fundamental findings.

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Verena Marke: These findings I want to present as critical perspective on the UN. And Crc.

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Verena Marke: I have conducted over 50 h of field observations and teacher and expert interviews, and I will show you some results results to the overall research question, how are participation rights conceptualized in the social status group of children? And what follows from this? For an inclusive grounded theory of critical agency.

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Verena Marke: So my claim number one is that juridical speech act like the right to be heard in the Article 12 of the UN. And Crc. Implementing performatively social practice.

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Verena Marke: H. Identities are aligned with normative expectation and general generational order. doing age, so a consequence of performative practices and dramatical and education, speech acts and interactions.

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Verena Marke: What follows is a performative approach of doing citizenship through age, competence, orientation, and maturity. Normativity.

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for example, looking at the limitations of Article 12. It's called a a child who's capable of forming his own use, and the views of the child being given to weight in accordance with the age and maturity of the child.

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Verena Marke: and remembering the preamble of the UN. Crc. Bearing in mind that the child, by reason of his physical and mental immaturity needs special safeguards and care

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Verena Marke: claim number 2. Lower on this model voice is not enough, shows the dimension of participation, like space, voice, audience, and influence for the fulfillment of agency of minors.

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Verena Marke: These are providing some semantical concepts of participation, and especially wise, are not sufficient, and are more or less topological terms on a rhetorical level, focusing on verbal express but verbal expressions. If children are asked bottles and different settings, like family education or at court.

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Verena Marke: there is no philosophy of voices, regardless of status, capacity, or age.

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Verena Marke: so claim number 3 would be. There is also No. 3 a theory of political agency. Regardless these dimensions.

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Verena Marke: Therefore I was looking for an inclusive community rights-based approach in middle schools, implemented by the University of Hawaii.

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Verena Marke: related to Dew's work, Democracy and Education. We for the Hawaii implements, the approach of of shared values and safety, cooperateness and learning from each other inclusive communities of capable humans, and a variety of thoughts and voices.

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Verena Marke: so different instruments like building a community with a symbolic and heptical community ball, democratical voting on a prompt of the day, raising the boy very own questions, to discuss and following philosophical structure, to engage in a value-driven dialogue in an intellectual, safe, split space with primary Wanda and an intergenerational beginner's mind

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Verena Marke: before. See why it's on it. On 4 pillars, like community and crowded philosophy and reflection.

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From this they are developing a theory of progressive education based on a distillation of teaching and community practices

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Verena Marke: grounded in the approaches of local teachers, and related to the school of thoughts of Dui, Pearl's, Fred Lipman, and and sharp. Dr. Thomas Jackson from the University of Hawaii, as head of the movement in the 1980 S. And surrounded by local Hawaiian teachers, formed this community-based approach in the local language with the Aloha spirit and the Ojana family.

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Verena Marke: I want to debate the following analyzers, the observations in schools and interviews with teachers and academic experts. we will see which critical prospects perspective on children's rights are open to a community rights-based approach

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Verena Marke: perspective. One says that as a field evidence, teachers, community orientation is based on the assumption that all are capable agents and practicing this through inclusive instruments, as mentioned before.

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Verena Marke: it. Just kind of an equally shared thinking amongst humans. In the present moment.

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Verena Marke: field evidence, too, teachers expressing new dimensions of a political agency and membership of mature community, not based on age.

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Verena Marke: For example, they, mentioning mindfulness through self, or speaking from the gut perspective, 3 teachers explain that they are learning from each other, and that they are learning a lot of the children.

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It's kind of undoing age through equal voices, production of knowledge and intergenerational dialogue.

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Verena Marke: But these equal voices and an inclusive community are limited to structures and generational order, like limitation, one on equal citizenship. For it's in the Us. Based on H and maturity for minus limitation to progressive approach and a non progressive educational system. It's the achievement oriented and you know, functioning over selection and exclusion and limitation. 3 p. 4 c. Reproduces by a narrative and other ring. So it's the call philosophy for children.

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Verena Marke: and it has the bias blind spot. They are not of assumption from professional perspective, a power, hierarchy, and moralization. They are calling children in the future and change of a misfortune.

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Verena Marke: But nevertheless, this community-based approach opens critical perspective on the UN. Crc. Perspective. One children are constructed as immature and non-humans in the UN.

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Verena Marke: Perspective. 2 children are constructed as our political and non-citizens in New and Csc. And perspective. 3 children are constructed as a special subgroup related to age, capacity, and maturity, which performatively leads to doing age and FET the event. Crc.

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Verena Marke: so the empirical goal is to build an inclusive gravity of political agency, voice and citizenship. What follows is a deconstruction of childhood and dismantling children's rights. So a philosophy of voices.

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you

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Verena Marke: and the purple question will be, What do matches and mismatches look like, and intergenerational practices of voice? For example, in this educational setting of p. 4. C. Hawaii.

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Verena Marke: According to Hirschman, their ways to react to an unsatisfying order like exit in the order which is for children almost not possible. And this kind of generation of failure and the proper time a problematized child when it's neglecting the rules.

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Verena Marke: We have loyalty and competent compliance as doing age and kind of normative childhood and voice, as complaining and having public influence, and just rarely seen and happening

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here, not listening to children and selling them as part of the powering children.

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Verena Marke: What is happening in a. P. 4. C. Circle in Hawaii.

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Verena Marke: Abi observed this bodily arrange sitting in a circle and doing community over eye contact, body, language, leading the dialogue by participants and democratically voting on questions from the group, shared thinking and knowledge production on serious philosophical focus, regardless of status H, and aiety of voices and expressions, not only verbally creating a safe space over listening.

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Verena Marke: What we have seen with before, so why is a concept of shared wipe, and folk so shared, thinking equal mindset where active listening is part of empowering.

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Verena Marke: This is where the research is going on and not missing the edges of children in silence, with no ecological status and membership and no effective voice, only having this imbalanced feeling of empowerment.

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Verena Marke: So the yeah.

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Verena Marke: the goal is to this, emotionalize the events of your voices. are not just events. It's more like giving them the ecological rights and not yeah. Having voices is silencing of complaints and kind of classified specification.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you for for that framework for community framework, and I'm never actually seen her from's excel voice model applied in this context before. So very, also very interesting. And we have one final presentation, a kind of from the ipad into global university in rethinking child citizenship in India age agency and wonderful. So one more panel. And then we'll have our discussion

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this one.

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So a very good evening to everyone. My name is Aschnar Rath. I'm an assistant professor at Opiege and the Global University Sony Pathariana. This is in India. I should be presenting my paper on Rethinking child Citizenship in India Age Agency Indoor.

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The research question of the paper is, How do law in politics reimagine child citizenship in India. The methodology is a normative study of interpretive analysis of age, related sections in specific national and international laws. The scope of the paper is limited to 3 national legislations and one international law. The scope is further limited to children who are already citizens in the substantive sense.

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and are considered vulnerable, due to being victims of child abuse, such as child labor or child sexual abuse with field work in childcare institutions. In Delhi

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the significance of the research is contribution to a theoretical exploration of child citizenship in a substantive sense, at the intersection of law, politics, and society. In the Indian context

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I should begin with a brief introduction, followed by an elaboration of citizenship focusing on its substantive interpretation in the context of children. This should be followed by an analysis of select legal discourses related to juvenile justice, child labour, and education. I shall also briefly mention my field work in child cancer in jelly. As I've collaborated earlier, my presentation will end with concluding arguments.

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So this paper explores the status of citizenship of a category of children who are already formal citizens by birth, but are excluded from the substantive practice of citizenship, while formal citizenship is associated with blood, worth, or length of stay in a particular region. Substantive citizenship in the Indian context is applied from Eisenhower's usage of norms, practices, meanings, and identities.

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and Pomeroy elaborate citizenship as a manner in which social life is organized in the Indian context, children are supposed to be able to exert rights associated with citizenship. However, a vast segment of the country's population does not have access to the right to food, housing, education, legal justice, and health care leading to a denial of substantive rights of citizenship.

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In this paper citizenship for children is explored at the intersection of law, politics, and society.

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with reference to age-related sections in national laws, and

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3 national laws, and one international law. Referring to Ilo, I should also prevent a blimpse of my work I've done in some of the institutions so moving on to the Uncrc. It. This defines children to be those who are below 18 years of age, as does the Constitution of India. However, Article 7.1 in Ilo's minimum Age convention

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provides that children between 13 to 15 years of age can work, provided their health and attendance in school is not adversely affected. Article 7.4 of filows, minimum wage convention, 1 38 further ads, that ages 12 or 14 can be substituted for 13 or 15.

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These provisions can be interpreted in the context of child citizenship to argue for the recognition of the reality of varied spaces occupied by children. Where an agency is exerted in different ways.

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where an agency can be described in this context as the ability to do things.

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Furthermore, for the exertion of citizenship in the substantive sense, best interest and participation rights of the child must be respected as portrayed in Article 3 of the Uncrc. That deals with best interests of the child, while Article 12 elaborates the participation rights of the child.

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So I conducted my field work through interactions with 70 children and government and non-government run institutions. related to child get, and 27 adults and associate profession, such as those responsible for the welfare of children in child care institutions in Delhi, as well as lawyers and academics. Between November 2017 and June 2018, a vast majority of the children were those rescued from child labor, child marriage, or conditions of sexual abuse.

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In this context it is imperative to note that the laws provided for the mechanisms of rehabilitation and reintegration in society are implemented properly for the children to be able to exert agency.

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It is possible for these children to emerge from the trauma they experience with adequate mental health and state support.

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I met some children who, after completing their school education, after having been rescued.

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War and cultures for higher studies and education. While institutional mechanisms are not as ideal as a non-institution. Once it provides the children of space to be away from the abusive environments that they would otherwise inhabit by being victims.

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Mawson Petrie have argued that children's spaces should be used to reconceptualize attitudes with regard to children, where they are perceived as being capable and mature members of the community. This can be extended to the legal system in India, which create the possibility for children to experience safe spaces, a possibility which cannot be relies for those trapped as victims of child-married child abuse or exploitation

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in my interactions with the children. I found that the

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girls rescued from sexual abuse, either from prostitutions or child marriage, are treated differently, based on the people who they need during the processes from the time that they are rescued to the time they are placed in an institutional setting or a non-institutional setting. If the interactions with the people of an understanding nature, it creates a space for them to settle into routine of school and extracurricular activities. However, the officials of me are insensitive, it can harm their confidence and make it difficult for them to engage

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with their surroundings. Highlighting the importance of spaces created by the laws meant to protect children.

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Agency of children is then heavily dependent on the environment that they are placed in, irrespective of age. In this context, arguments related to agencies can be extended. As I will argue further through the juvenile justice, legislation. The Indian Penal Code, as well as laws on child labour and education.

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As for the juvenile Justice Act. Children between 16 to 18 years of age can be treated as adults. If a heinous crime has been committed by them. If children can be understood to have agency at the age of 16 to commit crimes.

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The same amount of understanding and capacity of responsibility should be ascribed to those by whom crimes have not been committed, an elaboration of arguments by such, and Walker in the Indian context for those between 16 to 18 years of age.

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As for the Indian Penal Code. The minimum age of criminal responsibility in India is 12 years. I argue that this creates spaces for a renewed understanding of citizenship for children between 12 to 18. In the cases of children being convicted for petty or serious crimes, the interaction with the environment around them shapes our experience of citizenship in a substantive sense here as well. If the children are considered capable, and M. Sure enough to commit crimes, the paper argues that agency in situations where no crime has been committed ought to be recognized.

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As for the Indian Law and child labor, which is a child labor Prohibition and Regulation Amendment act. The latest one. Children below 14 years of age can work in enterprises related to the family or in the entertainment industry between 14 to 18 years of age at all, since can work except in areas listed as his artists.

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This allows you the possibility of exploration of citizenship. But children between 14 to 18 years of age. As there is recognition of the work being done by children in this age group, so scholars like libel and Invers in the Z have studied children in various parts of the world to argue that children exert different forms of agency in varying contexts.

391
01:26:11.360 --> 01:26:21.050
Libel has also argued that if children have access to spaces where they can engage this race, a possibility of them being more independent.

392
01:26:21.130 --> 01:26:43.740
Different competencies develop across children of variance ages based on the spaces that they are exposed to, as had by Lansdown. The right of children to free and compulsory Education Act provides for free and compulsory education of children between 6 to 14 years of age. The law does not provide for compulsory education for those between 14 to 18 years of age in India.

393
01:26:43.740 --> 01:26:52.690
providing again for the possibility of a renewed understanding of substantive citizenship of children between the ages of 14 and 18.

394
01:26:52.770 --> 01:27:04.480
Furthermore, children in India, who have been rescued from child labor or child sexual abuse are placed in childcare institutions till the time their families can be located and they are provided education facilities.

395
01:27:05.460 --> 01:27:10.999
The key arguments that I've tried to make here is that laws seem to recognize 8 as a construct

396
01:27:11.230 --> 01:27:14.370
with the creation of spaces where the laws are implemented properly

397
01:27:14.950 --> 01:27:26.829
when it emerges. The possibility of the creation of an environment where an agency can be exerted. Rethinking child citizenship in India involves reimagining agency of children being recreated by law and practice.

398
01:27:26.830 --> 01:27:51.020
The presence of laws, such as the Ilo conventions at the international level and national laws, such as the Criminal Justice Act, child labor Acts and Education Acts recognize the presence of unique conditions of children that can be interpreted to argue that those below 18 years of age could perhaps be dealing with conditions that justify the enactment of laws which consider their agency in a different manner than prescribing the Constitution of India and the UN. Crc

399
01:27:51.390 --> 01:27:54.449
creation of spaces and the provision of opportunities

400
01:27:54.490 --> 01:28:17.279
as mandated by law to children in India, creates the possibility where an agency can be exerted. The theoretical exploration of the paper is toured substantive citizenship by children. In the Indian context. I conclude by arguing that as different laws recognize children as children in various ways, it can be put forward that the laws reflect the practice

401
01:28:17.280 --> 01:28:33.739
of ascribing some kind of agency to children of waiting ages of particular kinds depending on the laws. You're looking at the specific contacts that each child has to face, decides the kind of agency, and subsequently the kind of citizenship that the child can exert.

402
01:28:38.030 --> 01:28:45.819
Thank you so much for it. Really fascinating and protection of philosophy and legal to run agencies to analyze

403
01:28:46.260 --> 01:28:53.089
in there. So what I'm going to do now is, I'm going to invite the speakers for a year to try and sift

404
01:28:53.220 --> 01:28:54.800
at the table.

405
01:28:55.190 --> 01:28:57.890
and we have.

406
01:28:58.400 --> 01:29:07.659
Maybe we can go to the screen so that all participants can be seen rather than pinning to kill people.

407
01:29:08.490 --> 01:29:31.400
The gallery. That's it. The gallery, the gallery view. How long we had zoom for a right. So we have. Look. We've had a look at really quite a both interdisciplinary and very rich set of papers. So, and we have, and whilst we could go on for hours. We only have 20 min for questions. Yeah. So

408
01:29:31.610 --> 01:29:34.850
who would like to ask a question?

409
01:29:37.870 --> 01:29:42.600
Ivor directed at the entire panel hall. A particular

410
01:29:43.510 --> 01:29:44.510
presenter.

411
01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:57.840
Oh, you must have some questions. Okay. Well, let me kick off, for let me kick off, and so much of the debate usually goes in this field.

412
01:29:57.910 --> 01:30:00.380
But there is a kind of

413
01:30:01.760 --> 01:30:11.520
there's a a limitation of rights frameworks, as we kind of understand them hegemonically in the application for the context that you're working in and discussing

414
01:30:11.770 --> 01:30:19.049
variously, you know, described as kind of periphery developing nations. I mean all these kinds of difficult terms.

415
01:30:19.150 --> 01:30:29.579
However, listening to your presentations. I was thinking we actually should take the next step and reverse that logic. So what would? And this is directed to the entire panel.

416
01:30:29.860 --> 01:30:40.209
What would you think of a lessons that from your critique and analysis of kind of various hegemonic forms of rights frameworks for the global?

417
01:30:40.260 --> 01:30:48.100
Quite north, and to children in the global world? Are they relevant? Given the economy into generation or structural inequalities

418
01:30:48.250 --> 01:30:55.009
for children? Or or do you say that your your critics are kind of. It's very generous and specific

419
01:30:56.130 --> 01:30:58.290
to your own contexts.

420
01:30:59.540 --> 01:31:02.669
Okay. who would like to kick off?

421
01:31:04.340 --> 01:31:15.920
So if you have a question, and you're kind of participating by zoom. Please raise your hand, and if no one wants to kick off, I am going to dub someone in a nominate view. Yes.

422
01:31:16.150 --> 01:31:23.009
I suppose I think there's a bit of a problem of this notion of global north, global South.

423
01:31:23.080 --> 01:31:39.379
for starters. I think if we look right now at the situation in Ukraine. Technically, if we're thinking, this is a geographic thing or turkey with its earthquake.

424
01:31:39.410 --> 01:31:48.559
we're talking about technically global north, if we're talking about the North and the hemisphere. So I think some of that is problematic in itself.

425
01:31:48.600 --> 01:31:51.170
because it just becomes

426
01:31:51.300 --> 01:32:13.370
everything, is everything is fine here and and not here. And I think it was also problematic because it's not something that the global South developed for itself. The name global South didn't come from from from technically from the global south. So it's to me, it's just repeating the the previous problems with a new label.

427
01:32:13.800 --> 01:32:18.340
Yeah, that would be one thing. Okay, so, Monica, you've got your hand raised.

428
01:32:19.540 --> 01:32:21.350
So if you like to go next.

429
01:32:21.550 --> 01:32:32.099
Monica Patterson: Sure, yeah, I I agree. And it's it's interesting, because there are different terms that have been used historically and that are in circulation. Now.

430
01:32:32.260 --> 01:32:57.760
Monica Patterson: I. I, in my presentation, shifted between talking about historical marginalization, which perhaps that's the historian and me likes to to make visible the fact that these aspects of not just identity, but of lived. Reality and and circumstance, are rooted in in histories and in in power relations? Right?

431
01:32:57.760 --> 01:33:03.150
Monica Patterson: but certainly, there are limitations with any term.

432
01:33:03.209 --> 01:33:16.169
Monica Patterson: but I do think that there are some key differences and the lines and boundaries of the various categories and terminologies are, of course, not stable, but I think that

433
01:33:16.209 --> 01:33:24.580
Monica Patterson: based on your context, you know, it is important to try to fracture some of these overarching.

434
01:33:24.750 --> 01:33:48.680
Monica Patterson: falsely universalizing claims that that are often not even you know, that often don't even speak to the realities in the privileged spaces that that they purport to represent right. So when we think about class, when they think about other aspects of intersectional identities, we realize that

435
01:33:48.760 --> 01:33:56.690
Monica Patterson: the you know, the global north, for instance, doesn't have a lot of sort of conceptual or empirical coherence.

436
01:34:00.180 --> 01:34:24.140
yeah, I think that from my point of view, some of the lessons the lessons are for child rights researchers from whatever you call it, but from everywhere to recognize that there are some discourses that have more power in defining what child rights are than others. And it's not that we necessarily need to one.

437
01:34:24.209 --> 01:34:25.469
if

438
01:34:25.660 --> 01:34:51.870
revert, that in the sense that we should. Yeah, I think it. The more important thing is to whenever you're analyzing something, make sure that you recognize where this discourse is placed? Is it coming from the UN. Is it coming from actors with a lot of power in defining? Or is it coming from somewhere else? And where is it that you, as a researcher, want to to highlight?

439
01:34:52.020 --> 01:34:55.729
yeah, where the definition is coming from?

440
01:34:57.730 --> 01:35:15.500
So I'd like to add on to that, and also argue about the implementation of law in practice. So how? There's always a dissonance when you're looking at it, and how that perhaps manifests itself a bit more. If you're looking at the global south perspective

441
01:35:15.500 --> 01:35:28.660
by the presence of the gray areas that are in operation, where? And perhaps you can then argue also for different kind of manifestations of

442
01:35:28.730 --> 01:35:38.559
participation, of voices being heard where some voices, perhaps would get heard more if coming from

443
01:35:38.620 --> 01:35:41.950
particular regions based on

444
01:35:42.110 --> 01:35:47.609
backgrounds of, say, gender or poverty, or

445
01:35:47.850 --> 01:36:01.600
the various ways in which inequality sort of manifests itself. So it is those gray areas that perhaps need to be studied again, adding on to what the fellow Pandas said about not necessarily looking at

446
01:36:01.860 --> 01:36:09.799
global north, north or global South as a whole, but very specific context. So

447
01:36:10.080 --> 01:36:14.120
and then you you have something you've had your hand up. You are, too. Add

448
01:36:15.250 --> 01:36:29.079
Anandini Dar: sure. thanks, Toby, for the question. yeah, I think. Given what I presented. I would not suggest that the the specific, the specificities, help us and back the problems of the universal

449
01:36:29.080 --> 01:36:49.789
Anandini Dar: But in terms of application, I mean the even Crc is also being critique for being, you know, based on this idea of a middle class childhood, right? A Western middle class childhood. So. of course, the lessons of the critique that you know many of us have offered here would apply to both the context of the global North and South and

450
01:36:49.790 --> 01:37:06.729
Anandini Dar: given, you know, large movements of migration across context. Some countries. you know, populations in both regions. if you look at it hemispherically, do get affected by the universalizing principles of the Crc.

451
01:37:06.760 --> 01:37:10.129
Anandini Dar: so yeah, I just thought, I'll put that in.

452
01:37:11.230 --> 01:37:14.149
Anandini Dar: And I think Fu has a question.

453
01:37:16.810 --> 01:37:27.069
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: So we've got 2 more questions. We've got one from afore who is one of the organizers of this panel. I'm just a ring in. So if you want to ask you a question so unmute.

454
01:37:27.170 --> 01:37:34.750
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: Thank you. I'm really sorry. I was late today. I had a bit of a an unexpected

455
01:37:35.590 --> 01:37:38.669
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: drop off I had to make, which meant that I started on.

456
01:37:39.420 --> 01:37:50.629
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: I joined the session while I was what I was driving, so, Monica, I completely missed your paper and kind of I wasn't fully engaged while you were presenting

457
01:37:50.820 --> 01:37:53.420
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: so my comments really out there

458
01:37:53.490 --> 01:37:54.680
on it.

459
01:37:55.040 --> 01:38:01.549
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: that and Russia. But before I really want to them. I just want to make a general comment in relation to

460
01:38:01.590 --> 01:38:05.919
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: the point about The

461
01:38:06.150 --> 01:38:16.380
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: what Russia was saying about the and I completely with what one occur. And What an Adini have just said.

462
01:38:16.400 --> 01:38:21.070
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: And I was looking at the panel. and I realized that almost all papers.

463
01:38:21.370 --> 01:38:30.780
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: and so on. Context of the and it just made me realize that while you need to recognize that

464
01:38:30.910 --> 01:38:36.620
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: that these issues, these critical perspectives are like that you all talk about

465
01:38:36.700 --> 01:38:39.990
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: can also apply to populations in the global North.

466
01:38:42.250 --> 01:38:46.710
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: He count to be perspective and context in the North.

467
01:38:46.800 --> 01:38:51.590
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: in the South. Sorry we speak out this perspectives and content in the South, and by so doing that

468
01:38:51.680 --> 01:38:54.000
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: we don't subject okay.

469
01:38:56.180 --> 01:39:04.400
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: to the north, to the same as here to me, in terms of issues of children's life

470
01:39:04.420 --> 01:39:08.449
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: in the South. And in that way you kind of make

471
01:39:08.460 --> 01:39:11.650
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: children's lives, the issues about them and the

472
01:39:12.890 --> 01:39:14.210
that

473
01:39:14.440 --> 01:39:17.659
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: it' be going on, we make that we make them invisible.

474
01:39:17.700 --> 01:39:19.190
We're not looking for that.

475
01:39:19.280 --> 01:39:24.820
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: It's in our own context of the norm is that we're looking for them elsewhere.

476
01:39:24.840 --> 01:39:29.099
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: And so it's something for us to.

477
01:39:29.110 --> 01:39:31.719
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: So I think I'll start with.

478
01:39:32.210 --> 01:39:35.460
So I'll start with Monica with my comments.

479
01:39:35.590 --> 01:39:45.409
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: What do you think I I I found your presentation really interesting, and very. It resonates with me strongly because I have to

480
01:39:45.520 --> 01:39:51.050
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: recently wrote a paper that is very similar in its arguments.

481
01:39:51.090 --> 01:39:53.729
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: and I just wanted to think, what would it take

482
01:39:53.970 --> 01:39:56.480
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: for research committees

483
01:39:57.020 --> 01:39:57.970
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: so

484
01:39:58.110 --> 01:40:07.079
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: established in your way, and in the way that perceived children, and that separation between what adult that is, and what child is, what would it take

485
01:40:07.110 --> 01:40:14.450
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: for them to have a shift. And the way they think about research governments.

486
01:40:14.620 --> 01:40:17.289
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: and research processes.

487
01:40:17.300 --> 01:40:20.919
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: what would what would it take for them to shift that mindset

488
01:40:21.160 --> 01:40:23.570
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: that to be maybe a bit more open

489
01:40:23.660 --> 01:40:25.070
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: to

490
01:40:25.290 --> 01:40:31.759
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: thinking about child research in a different way

491
01:40:32.090 --> 01:40:35.149
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: by pen on my paper. And I'm not sure if it's a

492
01:40:35.350 --> 01:40:42.230
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: I've written it correctly. So I'm sorry about this. But I really found your community based approach

493
01:40:43.040 --> 01:40:49.379
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: a really interesting and what I would really love to hear more about is how

494
01:40:49.390 --> 01:40:59.200
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: this approach is informed by indigenous law views around personhood and social relationships. In the content of Hawaii.

495
01:40:59.500 --> 01:41:02.909
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: Vasha, I really enjoyed your presentation.

496
01:41:02.920 --> 01:41:08.420
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: and I mean for me, I I have really been interested in the role that

497
01:41:08.550 --> 01:41:30.160
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: point of played, and I don't. But I really find that very interesting. And I think that very often that is glossed over. And then, you know, we only have 10 min left. I'm sorry I'm yeah, that would be great. I know it's your panel, but I know you want to hear from the people.

498
01:41:30.470 --> 01:41:48.890
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: I don't get sorry. And so yeah, I just want to. I guess it was a comments, for I'm really glad that we got to hear about her about that perspective in this paper, because it's often close glossed over when we talk about the conventional events of the child which we allege to be what's in bias?

499
01:41:49.020 --> 01:41:50.910
Afua Twum-Danso Imoh: that's it. Thank you.

500
01:41:51.830 --> 01:42:00.709
Okay. So just to note, please, maybe condense your responses so that we can maybe get one more question in. Okay, thank you, Monica. You first

501
01:42:03.280 --> 01:42:09.439
Monica Patterson: thanks for the question. So I have. I have a quick answer, which is 3 parts. So

502
01:42:10.070 --> 01:42:14.490
Monica Patterson: what would it take to shift these communities? I think. these committees? Sorry.

503
01:42:14.660 --> 01:42:27.520
Monica Patterson: First and foremost, they need to be diversified. So the committees need to look like the world where research is done. And

504
01:42:27.710 --> 01:42:42.300
Monica Patterson: I think that's really challenging in Northern or Western context, where universities remain overwhelmingly white and privileged spaces, and the the small minority

505
01:42:43.020 --> 01:42:51.979
Monica Patterson: of people of color are often tasked with with excessive burdens of service and expectation because they are the minority.

506
01:42:52.060 --> 01:43:01.670
Monica Patterson: so that's the first part. So these panels need to to have like on the panel that I had. There was no one from

507
01:43:01.770 --> 01:43:09.710
Monica Patterson: anywhere in the global South. And there was one person who had previously done a little bit of work in Argentina.

508
01:43:10.120 --> 01:43:16.449
Monica Patterson: So yeah, that's part of the problem. Secondly, I think we need to hear from children themselves.

509
01:43:16.510 --> 01:43:36.160
Monica Patterson: in relation to you know what they want from researchers, and what are the kinds of projects and methods and best practices that serve their interests? and I think that these committees need to trust the researchers and young people to advocate for

510
01:43:36.160 --> 01:43:49.009
Monica Patterson: for their interests

511
01:43:49.030 --> 01:44:07.259
Monica Patterson: when you're doing something that's not as as mainstream can be further isolating, because you just don't have the time, but we can be stronger together and learn from each other, and try to make the kinds of institutional changes that are needed. I think when we are able to collaborate and dialogue.

512
01:44:13.520 --> 01:44:16.879
Yeah, we're an in our place.

513
01:44:19.110 --> 01:44:21.990
Verena Marke: Yeah, thank you very much for your comment.

514
01:44:22.030 --> 01:44:29.389
Verena Marke: yesterday we were talking with the University of Ari about exactly this grounding of their theory.

515
01:44:29.420 --> 01:44:40.850
Verena Marke: and we mentioned that the approaches are from the local features. and it's kind of a desolation of teaching and community practice of the locals.

516
01:44:40.870 --> 01:44:51.560
Verena Marke: And yeah, they we we mentioned the aluma spirit and the Hannah, the family of the communities, and that the people see how I approach. Would not

517
01:44:51.700 --> 01:44:59.270
be growing like this on other settings, like we're talking about implementing it in like.

518
01:44:59.370 --> 01:45:10.620
Verena Marke: for example, in New York or something somewhere else. And it's really related to this community approach, also local teachers. And yeah, it's a grounded theory of them. The this progressive approach.

519
01:45:12.750 --> 01:45:14.000
Alright.

520
01:45:17.020 --> 01:45:42.009
If I get it right, I think it's about the glossing over of the role of Poland. I think probably for me it's not just the role of Poland. It's it's the why Poland. And I think that speaks to also why there's so much representation from India on this panel. And that was that struggle of independence, and they saw themselves very much

521
01:45:42.010 --> 01:45:48.890
as partners in overthrowing empires during this period is the period in the context.

522
01:45:48.890 --> 01:46:04.499
and I think, one of the key things by overlooking that prejudice that was in that process of the UN. There was a lot of patronising towards Eastern Europe, even though this is where the proposal was coming from

523
01:46:04.540 --> 01:46:26.960
during that 10 year period. That's something that's reported in the sort of legislative history. And I think if we go back and explore, there's actually a rich framework available. it isn't actually in child rights theory. Because, lo and behold, it's in political theory, because they had this crazy idea that children were people. So

524
01:46:26.960 --> 01:46:47.150
yeah, so we actually find very rich frameworks. And it's very much grassroots and bottom-up ideas around prefiguration in society. And this was a project that took over 100 years to eventually get to the top rather than come top down

525
01:46:50.820 --> 01:46:58.889
any other. Okay, great, we have one more question. So yeah, so please introduce yourself.

526
01:47:00.030 --> 01:47:22.410
Thank you so much for these great presentations and also organizing this session. I'm I'm on the mill from Turkey, and my question will come from for all of you, in fact, but especially Bashar's presentation was the inspiration for this question, because at the end of your slides you showed, and underlying these babies defending their rights.

527
01:47:22.480 --> 01:47:32.799
And okay, honestly, I would like to say something very personal. I have a terrible about academia and childhood studies in general, because there is no space for children.

528
01:47:32.820 --> 01:47:57.820
And we talked about a London also talks about so fresh movement, and we know that. there are many similarities, intersections between human rights and children. Size, for sure, and also moves. This century is kind of like. It was like women's suffrage moments. for the last century, let's say. But for this century we know that a children's Suffrage movement is also quite interesting and

529
01:47:57.820 --> 01:48:02.860
and powerful, but we speak for them generally.

530
01:48:03.020 --> 01:48:20.679
for sure, children's rights are under our responsibility as adults. But still I would like to ask something like this. You also mentioned about all these children's parliaments all these different examples, but I love in my country, for instance, Turkey, we have to lose parliaments, which is quite tokenistic.

531
01:48:20.680 --> 01:48:33.060
They only exist, but there is no space for they. They are always talking about oil and human, their space, they, their voices and making some, you know, space for them to be hurt.

532
01:48:33.060 --> 01:48:45.380
But we have such turbo, and how can we provide a real space for them that can be a huge and good conversation topic, for sure. But still I would like to ask you to all these experts.

533
01:48:45.380 --> 01:49:07.800
and also, if you have any object or any. How can I say good examples for these children's parliaments, for instance, in India might be one example. Maybe we can talk about this kind of how to include them, not into research, but into human rights defense. Let's say, thank you so much.

534
01:49:08.750 --> 01:49:10.330
You have 1 min.

535
01:49:10.750 --> 01:49:11.810
Okay.

536
01:49:12.800 --> 01:49:35.160
so I suppose I should say that I'm actually a philosopher in practice, and I specialise in very young children's rights. So babies, toddlers, preschoolers rather than youth, even though I do work with adolescents and older, even older people, even my age. but I suppose the the issue is creating space.

537
01:49:35.160 --> 01:49:50.630
These people are in our spaces. We don't take note. That's that's the point. I they're there every day. They they're around us, and they're actually children are the sort of the last bastion where you can say stuff like, or get on a plane and go. Oh.

538
01:49:51.020 --> 01:50:02.769
toddler. I I can't say that about getting next to another person, because you can't have that kind of discriminatory response to another to an adult which can say that about children.

539
01:50:02.770 --> 01:50:23.190
But I suppose where I would go with that Tokenistic idea of children's Parliament. What we do is we create an ideal. Parliament, we create what we think Parliament should be for children. And then we go here you are. It's a political science approach. We give them a court, we give them a parliament, whereas we know well

540
01:50:23.190 --> 01:50:44.699
in in your context and in mine, I mean, I'm Australian, but the deals are done at the pub or at the football. They're not done in Parliament, and that's what we remove. We remove corruption. We remove all of those aspects, contracts, negotiations, risk gambling the things we don't want children

541
01:50:44.700 --> 01:51:05.880
to be involved in. So we create this ideal view that we say, that's what you can participate in. And we apply that over the top of of something that's really quite hypocritical. So we give them a future plan rather than a today plan. So I think that that's the key that when they were doing these children's courts and parliaments.

542
01:51:05.880 --> 01:51:25.020
they were the behavior in them. There was so much coercion. There was so much I suppose, but it was child, child to child, and it was a slight reduction, so it was making it better and reforming step by step, not in some imaginary Utopian construct.

543
01:51:26.350 --> 01:51:45.740
Wonderful! That's a great place to end, because I know that the research committee. 53 also have to make plans now in this room. So we've got to get out. So can we please. Now, thank our wonderful panelists, and all of you as participants for engaging in this wonderful seminar. So thank you very much, all of you.

544
01:51:47.870 --> 01:51:48.000
and I'm sure you can continue the conversations