WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:07.960
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Well, okay. Since it is the time, may be we should start.

2
00:00:08.590 --> 00:00:15.449
Fabio Braun Carrasco: There is a for this 10 people in the room. So if there is questions later from

3
00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:28.560
Fabio Braun Carrasco: the room, and I would maybe need a volunteer to take those questions from the room for me. and yes, I'm very happy to be able to welcome you all here.

4
00:00:28.840 --> 00:00:30.350
Fabio Braun Carrasco: 2 M.

5
00:00:31.970 --> 00:00:42.050
Fabio Braun Carrasco: This is a session and 526 elusive concepts of the social, simultaneous analysis from different socio cultural contexts.

6
00:00:42.450 --> 00:00:52.580
Fabio Braun Carrasco: And we will have various sessions. The first one will be by Pablo the Marinis. and

7
00:00:52.680 --> 00:01:03.490
Fabio Braun Carrasco: about elusive concepts in sociology. A simultaneous approach between Southern and Northern reflections about society, community mass route and people.

8
00:01:03.910 --> 00:01:13.980
Fabio Braun Carrasco: and

9
00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:16.870
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Alejandro Vlakos is also from

10
00:01:17.060 --> 00:01:24.100
Fabio Braun Carrasco: the New York City of the and also the Institute of the Investor, Asian.

11
00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:26.170
Fabio Braun Carrasco: and also Connie said.

12
00:01:26.310 --> 00:01:29.409
Fabio Braun Carrasco: then we will have

13
00:01:29.570 --> 00:01:37.730
Fabio Braun Carrasco: a present dictation. By Gina Saludovsky. about a concept of the the concept of charisma.

14
00:01:45.080 --> 00:01:54.820
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Welcome to the panel. After that we will have a presentation by now. Ok. Eastern from Tokyo University of the Arts.

15
00:01:55.080 --> 00:02:00.570
Fabio Braun Carrasco: bowed social knowledge and Understanding, a critique of of the native point of view.

16
00:02:00.930 --> 00:02:10.940
Fabio Braun Carrasco: And then, last, but not least we have Ehenya and both from the University of

17
00:02:11.160 --> 00:02:17.030
Fabio Braun Carrasco: about the concept of masses in Kikhano, Makuza and Bordeaux.

18
00:02:18.040 --> 00:02:19.360
Fabio Braun Carrasco: So

19
00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:31.490
Fabio Braun Carrasco:  So maybe we should do it that way that all the presenters have about maybe 1718, Max. 20 min

20
00:02:31.580 --> 00:02:41.139
Fabio Braun Carrasco: to present, but that would be pushing it. maybe by 15 min. I will send you a quick message informing you that you have a few minutes left.

21
00:02:41.450 --> 00:02:57.939
Fabio Braun Carrasco: and then maybe it would be best of all.

22
00:02:59.320 --> 00:03:11.619
Fabio Braun Carrasco: So then. if everyone's ready. Maybe we should just jump right into it. And first would be Pablo de Marinis and Alejandrovia Lakovsky.

23
00:03:12.090 --> 00:03:12.770
The

24
00:03:25.969 --> 00:03:26.790
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: yeah.

25
00:03:44.270 --> 00:03:49.790
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I don't know.

26
00:03:56.130 --> 00:03:56.960
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Okay.

27
00:04:00.100 --> 00:04:01.150
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Hi.

28
00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:03.750
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: so

29
00:04:06.420 --> 00:04:16.349
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: thank you for for for the presentation for the for this session.  Alexandra and I have prefer the paper.

30
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:29.389
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: which is We have the digital elusive concept in sociology, simultaneous approach between Southern and Northern reflections about society, community, mass, crowd, and people.

31
00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:39.880
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: And we deploy in this paper and methodological approach. which is called a simultaneous approach. It's a

32
00:04:40.330 --> 00:04:44.689
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: includes per perspective from the South and the North.

33
00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:56.220
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: It gives no theoretical epistemological superiority or priority of concepts from the north over those produced in the South.

34
00:04:57.280 --> 00:05:06.779
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: It raises it. It it it confronts it. I'm from theoretical and a poker crossroads.

35
00:05:07.250 --> 00:05:18.740
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: We make several questions about, how do concepts relate to certain a stable or conflicted historical periods?

36
00:05:18.980 --> 00:05:28.469
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: We make questions also about tensions, complex cities delay mass. which are deployed in those connections.

37
00:05:29.850 --> 00:05:33.860
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Sociolog, she has always provided

38
00:05:33.960 --> 00:05:36.880
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: different images of the social.

39
00:05:37.590 --> 00:05:46.589
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: A. It has also provided tools that carry very different images of the social. We have on the one side

40
00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:56.959
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: organic concepts or images of the social, as if it were a structure, totality relative to be integrated

41
00:05:57.620 --> 00:06:02.669
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and relatively well grounded in its economic configurations.

42
00:06:02.880 --> 00:06:08.040
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: its political regimes, and its cultural forms. On the other side.

43
00:06:08.590 --> 00:06:14.250
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: we have or they are rather elusive or slippery concepts

44
00:06:14.410 --> 00:06:18.570
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: or concepts of ever see consistency

45
00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:23.469
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: which disseminate images of the social understood

46
00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:28.630
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: as a rather disperse it diffuse eccentric, fragmented.

47
00:06:29.250 --> 00:06:33.229
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: undefined blood or disembodied entity.

48
00:06:35.530 --> 00:06:47.749
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: There have been also metamorphosis of certain concepts from elusive ones to organic ones. So there has been a change in spectrum

49
00:06:48.150 --> 00:06:50.199
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: between more or less

50
00:06:50.300 --> 00:06:53.309
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Hello! It concepts riddled with

51
00:06:53.430 --> 00:06:58.870
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: a threshold and gradients mix it forms and articulations.

52
00:07:02.320 --> 00:07:11.650
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: then Throughout its trajectories sociology has to maintain burials, orientations.

53
00:07:12.400 --> 00:07:19.749
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: abstract theoretical or empirical historical concrete in both Orientations

54
00:07:20.110 --> 00:07:23.730
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: sociology has elaborated these concepts

55
00:07:23.990 --> 00:07:27.040
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: with the purpose, on the one hand.

56
00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:29.190
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: of understanding.

57
00:07:29.380 --> 00:07:33.670
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and intervening with a septic terminologies

58
00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:39.949
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: that generally convey organic and stable images of the social. On the other hand.

59
00:07:40.280 --> 00:07:42.450
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: they have tried to do so

60
00:07:42.530 --> 00:07:48.140
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: with vocabularies closer to political practices combined more elusive

61
00:07:48.400 --> 00:07:50.679
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: image of collective life.

62
00:07:50.930 --> 00:07:54.630
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Those at the time of their classical formation.

63
00:07:54.850 --> 00:07:58.200
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: These orientations in sociology took shape

64
00:07:58.310 --> 00:08:02.520
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: in different ways, depending on the concepts.

65
00:08:02.730 --> 00:08:09.609
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: The second part of the presentation is by Alejandro, and it will present the concepts.

66
00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:11.790
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Yes, and

67
00:08:12.060 --> 00:08:20.409
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: we are going to focus on for concepts, community society masses, crowds and people

68
00:08:20.700 --> 00:08:39.729
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and community is a concept related to fundamental questions about who we are, on, who they are, where we are going and where we come from. That is about questions of identity and difference.

69
00:08:40.770 --> 00:08:59.540
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: A classical sociologist tend to characterize. Broadly speaking, they hope your data unfolded in a modern urban, secular capitalist basic configuration of collecting life as a loss of community.

70
00:09:00.280 --> 00:09:11.620
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: But at the same time they proposed way software composed in that community, in some cases under a new basis for the future.

71
00:09:13.370 --> 00:09:30.830
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I still, for example, there were differences, very important ones between semantics. And, for example, a German semantics for which the community is an organic foundation of the social.

72
00:09:30.920 --> 00:09:39.589
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: almost natural, and on the other side, for example, the Anglo-saxon Semantics, as in the

73
00:09:40.130 --> 00:09:59.370
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: which analyzes a plurality of ethnic national communities in conflict and transformation. and about society. This notion implies a more general definition of collective life.

74
00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:21.299
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: of a more neutral, an abstract character, which, to the account for all social forms with different historical configurations, it it assumes a certain stability economic pool to a moral that also can enter into crisis.

75
00:10:21.850 --> 00:10:39.769
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: But this crisis A can be a confronted and re-established some order through various mechanisms among them, for example, they it's the limitation between the nation state

76
00:10:40.840 --> 00:11:02.170
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and along these lines, as several perspectives have pretty size, they can only call concept of society for being true organicist, or for being merely circus tribe to modern society as opposed to no modern community.

77
00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:16.560
de Marinis & Bialakowsky:  For in in a different direction. Masses and crowds are a a concept. They, above all as

78
00:11:16.580 --> 00:11:23.669
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: problems, since they always imply a program to do something with them.

79
00:11:23.850 --> 00:11:36.229
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: accompanying social mechanisms that stimulate them, or focusing on what a escape or is fear to escape those mechanisms

80
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:53.239
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: they will observe, and at the same time, for example, The mass of of citizen soldiers resulting from the formation of compulsory military service, but also

81
00:11:53.390 --> 00:12:11.930
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: prevent their escape under sertion, or. for example, the mass of workers located in planet working class neighborhoods, but also a anticipates. They revolt on revolution against societal.

82
00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.730
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: The elusive character

83
00:12:17.910 --> 00:12:33.490
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and of mass and crowds is employed in a variety of terms and concepts that are new to the problem. mass multi to crowd public mall, a agglomeration.

84
00:12:35.370 --> 00:12:47.159
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: And it's so soon she established a close relationship with psychology from which it works terms of

85
00:12:47.880 --> 00:12:51.190
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: finally people.

86
00:12:51.310 --> 00:12:57.880
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I like the previous concept. So I did not seek to elaborate

87
00:12:57.930 --> 00:13:02.119
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: a scientific proposal.

88
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:10.260
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and it is mostly linked to political ideological uses. Nevertheless.

89
00:13:10.720 --> 00:13:17.370
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: it's elusiveness. It's a striking, unlike terms as citizenship.

90
00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:26.939
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: since it alludes to the feelings, traditions, and concerns of ordinary people in a singular historical framework.

91
00:13:27.100 --> 00:13:48.599
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Especially the history of modern national states and their political forms. Along these reflections, for example, in Latin America and Socio-electric are fifth, Larry. In Argentine our reflections on Populism have become fundamental, a question that is now an issue all over the world.

92
00:13:50.370 --> 00:13:55.800
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: So let us go yet to to the conclusions of of this presentation.

93
00:13:56.010 --> 00:14:03.300
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: As a conclusion, we can point out that A, in this classical formulations

94
00:14:03.460 --> 00:14:06.749
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: that we have analyzed in a in a very synthetic manner.

95
00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:11.170
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Concepts such as community and society.

96
00:14:11.410 --> 00:14:13.539
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: even in very different forms.

97
00:14:13.670 --> 00:14:18.929
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: allude to a certain organicity, stability, or consistency

98
00:14:19.560 --> 00:14:28.940
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: in contrast notions such as masses, multitudes and people are more elusive for their theorization.

99
00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:34.830
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: While I' into phenomena that is ever see to conceptualization.

100
00:14:36.170 --> 00:14:46.780
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: we consider also interesting for future works to analyze the shifts that have occurred over time. In the meanings of these concepts.

101
00:14:46.870 --> 00:14:54.849
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: their organicity, stability, and their Elusive or conflicted modality.

102
00:14:55.290 --> 00:14:57.000
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Within this shift

103
00:14:57.130 --> 00:15:01.739
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: it is key to account for what happens to the

104
00:15:01.750 --> 00:15:06.749
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: after those classic formulations. This was a period

105
00:15:07.090 --> 00:15:18.539
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: in which it was proposed to stabilize the social through integration, mechanism and Canadian state integration or intervention ones.

106
00:15:19.150 --> 00:15:29.629
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Thus concepts emerged that combined complex and even contradictory image, such as societal community and mass society.

107
00:15:30.330 --> 00:15:33.550
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: And we see both concepts

108
00:15:33.560 --> 00:15:36.739
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: as 2 sides of the same coin.

109
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:45.289
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: The associate, our community shows a certain optimism for the possibilities of integration and expansion

110
00:15:45.310 --> 00:15:50.650
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: of the first of citizenship. and my society on the other side

111
00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:57.080
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: reveals a critical and public view of the consequences of this type of social form

112
00:15:57.160 --> 00:16:03.080
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: in which cultural industries, the mass media, new form of mass consumption.

113
00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:08.059
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: etc., implied the mobilization withdrawal into private life

114
00:16:08.160 --> 00:16:12.889
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: of various kinds

115
00:16:13.300 --> 00:16:14.909
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: in that context.

116
00:16:15.110 --> 00:16:21.110
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: with the peculiar perspective from Argentina and Latin America, which we hear

117
00:16:21.300 --> 00:16:31.310
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: defend certain perspective, sought to understand the specific conflicting qualities of the politics of popular mass movements

118
00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:36.240
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: that aim at the class harmony in an organized community

119
00:16:36.400 --> 00:16:42.630
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: different from the racist people's community of the European fascism.

120
00:16:43.150 --> 00:16:44.120
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Thank you.

121
00:16:51.630 --> 00:16:52.510
Okay.

122
00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:56.370
Fabio Braun Carrasco: right? Thank you very much.

123
00:16:56.710 --> 00:17:02.020
Fabio Braun Carrasco:  I think we are missing one of the speakers.

124
00:17:02.380 --> 00:17:16.440
Fabio Braun Carrasco: so, if you prefer, we can also take questions now, because now I think we will have enough time. But we can also just stick to the original plan. Have all presentations, and then do the questions.

125
00:17:16.570 --> 00:17:28.700
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Yeah, I think that's better. We can the presentations. And then we have a discussion between the percenters.

126
00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:34.120
Gina Zabludovsky: Yes. Next, it would be you. Gina.

127
00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:41.470
Gina Zabludovsky: okay.

128
00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:43.280
Gina Zabludovsky: thank you.

129
00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:45.129
Yeah. There's this question.

130
00:17:46.340 --> 00:17:48.900
okay. no city.

131
00:17:49.710 --> 00:17:50.810
Gina Zabludovsky: Okay?

132
00:17:51.230 --> 00:17:54.230
Gina Zabludovsky: I don't know.

133
00:17:54.310 --> 00:17:58.949
Gina Zabludovsky: Move to other one. Are you seeing me? And are you seeing the presentation? Okay.

134
00:17:59.600 --> 00:18:02.309
Gina Zabludovsky: okay, so

135
00:18:02.550 --> 00:18:08.640
Gina Zabludovsky: well, I I don't want to talk about charisma. And it's it's very good

136
00:18:17.270 --> 00:18:18.160
Gina Zabludovsky: system.

137
00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:22.689
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Now, we can't hear you.

138
00:18:24.820 --> 00:18:27.279
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Hmm, they support another maintenance. No.

139
00:18:45.870 --> 00:18:48.640
Gina Zabludovsky: yeah.

140
00:18:48.810 --> 00:18:49.820
Gina Zabludovsky: it's better

141
00:18:50.510 --> 00:19:02.839
Gina Zabludovsky: from another computer.

142
00:19:07.820 --> 00:19:11.749
Gina Zabludovsky: Okay, so I'm gonna do it. I'm doing it for another computer.

143
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:14.180
Gina Zabludovsky: Okay?

144
00:19:15.570 --> 00:19:17.690
Gina Zabludovsky: So it's good for you or you.

145
00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:22.070
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Okay? So it's what are you? Right?

146
00:19:24.230 --> 00:19:27.369
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Yes, we can be a yes, we can hear you.

147
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.490
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Okay?

148
00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:39.600
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: So it.

149
00:19:40.260 --> 00:19:48.149
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: as far as we ever here, like the you have, the leader is a Hebrew magical attributes in

150
00:19:50.330 --> 00:19:55.250
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: in queens it

151
00:20:01.130 --> 00:20:02.710
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: okay.

152
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.630
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Are you listening to me.

153
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:11.999
Unfortunately, the connection is quite unstable. It's hard to hear you.

154
00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:19.560
Okay, now.

155
00:20:19.850 --> 00:20:22.600
Fabio Braun Carrasco: even though. Okay.

156
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:26.060
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: so Okay, this is but

157
00:20:29.110 --> 00:20:30.190
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: hello

158
00:20:31.490 --> 00:20:32.960
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: me.

159
00:20:33.020 --> 00:20:40.490
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: the definition of, I mean conviction, unique attributes of the leader, revolutionary change.

160
00:20:40.540 --> 00:20:43.310
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: This is just an image. And then

161
00:20:44.630 --> 00:20:55.609
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: those survivors type of authority. Of of course they are ideal types. They are concept. They are not the reality and concept. They can be all

162
00:20:55.980 --> 00:21:02.799
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: all mix up. But I'm gonna not gonna go through that. But traditional

163
00:21:03.770 --> 00:21:13.239
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: bureaucracy tradition. That means established groups. They are routine, I said. They are lasting relations, and they are based in norms and carries right.

164
00:21:15.510 --> 00:21:20.890
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: It's extraordinary, or learn intrinsic qualities of the leader, if

165
00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:23.030
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: the

166
00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:24.880
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: the

167
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:33.110
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: because it comes to or traditionalized irrational emotional bonds and without

168
00:21:35.510 --> 00:21:42.750
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: fixed rules. But then, what I've been the changes in this years. Okay, so here you have.

169
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:57.229
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: So you

170
00:21:57.770 --> 00:22:05.850
Fabio Braun Carrasco: maybe you can turn off your video. And then we can maybe hear you better. I think your video is using a lot of your Internet.

171
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:29.239
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Okay? Now. yes, let's okay. So here is how charisma has been transformed

172
00:22:31.300 --> 00:22:40.069
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: depends on in we. Now you are using it. Okay? If you use it in well, Legion F, and be sacred it you.

173
00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:49.049
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: It's actually a leader with a divided, our religious leaders. If you use the same politics, then you have the leader versus the

174
00:22:50.870 --> 00:23:04.990
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: masses or the polygoning is left the leader versus the masses, the politician. This is the bureaucracy, the leader shibish versus authority, the outsider versus the insiders.

175
00:23:06.570 --> 00:23:19.799
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: the outdoor authoritarianism versus institutional, the emotional versus the directional and the spontaneous, this is the calculate ration. But of course charisma has the once has begin

176
00:23:20.540 --> 00:23:35.089
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: so well. I'm I'm charisma properly said. I'm not going to talk very much about it, because I know that my colleagues, Argentinians, they are specialist on this issue, but you know, Charisma ourselves now is being used as well

177
00:23:35.850 --> 00:23:45.180
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: before the right point. Like Donald Trump Victor, who ran over as well for the Latin American Populist with the left wing rhetoric.

178
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.029
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: a. That the

179
00:23:50.570 --> 00:24:04.320
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: that it when catch, remains and client a listen and charisma usually together. I'm not gonna talk about Populism because it's a very elusive concept. But you know, it may be become very related to charisma. And then

180
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:19.299
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: what what happened is like a, it's sacred or secular and in different areas. So if you go to business or any session and theoret, because if we know the Max, we will

181
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:28.689
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: concept of bureaucracy. It's not just a concept for government organization, but the whole theories of organis.

182
00:24:29.410 --> 00:24:30.070
the

183
00:24:31.950 --> 00:24:32.670
the

184
00:24:34.420 --> 00:24:36.410
then the.

185
00:24:36.710 --> 00:24:51.530
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: It's my use in organic. So for, like the, or mainly in private enterprise, as leader versus managers, entrepreneurs, business executives, or rest, take it, if there's 2 weeks. Avoid them.

186
00:24:51.990 --> 00:25:02.400
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: of course, and you can all use it in show business. Also, it's about Lucy that we usually use it. Now sell them, or in

187
00:25:02.600 --> 00:25:14.130
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: sports like champions.

188
00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:24.749
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: it is influencer versus followers. So it's so elusive. Now that you can talk of all this.

189
00:25:25.860 --> 00:25:27.570
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Yes, okay.

190
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:34.150
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: DC,

191
00:25:36.320 --> 00:25:44.830
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: it's a what's what's going on. It's from from what's happening with charisma and techno logic, I change.

192
00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:51.879
We have like from masses to fall away from Gandhi and Mandela's charisma to Internet influences.

193
00:25:52.240 --> 00:26:06.129
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: We don't know if we can talk about charisma, it's talking about Internet influence. But but but you know, people talk about that, technology can change it the world while wave

194
00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:21.100
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: increase number of 2 celebrities in session. Maybe a followers fake news, you say, fake charisma. That's like a question. Okay? Then we have

195
00:26:24.540 --> 00:26:25.800
a different

196
00:26:26.190 --> 00:26:31.509
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: once they are in, and one of the concept that even the emergence of charisma

197
00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:32.840
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: he

198
00:26:34.350 --> 00:26:35.680
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: this is

199
00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:41.350
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: not clear, you know, in the classic.

200
00:26:42.340 --> 00:26:46.339
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: direct gift of the leader. And

201
00:26:48.650 --> 00:27:02.489
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: now, in all kind, usually you can learn to be

202
00:27:03.870 --> 00:27:08.379
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: automatic. But now we need to learn to be charismatic, and then you have.

203
00:27:14.060 --> 00:27:29.409
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: And we have now like, if there are many causes about leadership of organizations and how to do it better. And they usually use the concept of, carries Mac to like to learn how to be a good leader. So

204
00:27:29.780 --> 00:27:33.109
this is a the others. But I'm not the

205
00:27:33.580 --> 00:27:47.200
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: I. I don't have time, so I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to and be more precise on how car is my inner risk, and it has to do with the

206
00:27:48.060 --> 00:27:48.730
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: book

207
00:27:54.670 --> 00:27:56.000
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: communicate.

208
00:27:58.670 --> 00:28:07.930
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: and to a theory of where you were born. With this unique

209
00:28:10.100 --> 00:28:39.959
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: you can learn to have carries. Now, say, learn a bit. Ski and rhetorical techniques. Final approach. The approach of communications say that how leaders communicate and how they evoked emotional responses to the people show their carism well when not to go to charisma. Of course, he said. Motion right through a you know, person to rational. So those theories, those modern theory of communication.

210
00:28:41.210 --> 00:28:55.490
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: like they have all these. These say attributes that they are not. Actually, they are legitimate skills to become charismatic. Okay, a le as intelligent to produce values and symbolic rhetoric

211
00:28:55.990 --> 00:28:58.680
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: intentions to coordinate the group.

212
00:28:59.710 --> 00:29:00.950
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: A.

213
00:29:01.170 --> 00:29:02.690
And they say.

214
00:29:02.770 --> 00:29:04.050
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Okay.

215
00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:13.229
depends me is how decided.

216
00:29:14.050 --> 00:29:21.890
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: It's constructed some frame retailers and master of symbolic thinking, fluid intelligence. And for that.

217
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:27.300
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Do you use me to make up for stories? I anecdotes, rhetorical questions

218
00:29:28.730 --> 00:29:51.699
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: to help create this suspense of the beginning of the P. Rast Shapiro? So between 2 ideas and tend to create a strong ethic. That that bill, said Motion. That's a characteristic of the classic carrier and the contemporary uses of charisma. The capacity to create strong abortions in the followers.

219
00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:58.759
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: And then there's the. There's another charisma sign us. Then they come, substance expressing more

220
00:29:58.770 --> 00:30:12.740
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: a conviction to justify division the idea of addition. It's also present in classical thinking and in modern thinking, articulate in the sentiments of the collective settings.

221
00:30:14.250 --> 00:30:16.289
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: like ambitions. Go.

222
00:30:17.610 --> 00:30:22.230
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: confidence that your voice. Well, that's the main difference.

223
00:30:22.750 --> 00:30:37.519
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: Be doing this approach. And because it's only one, you can learn to be charismatic by using your voice, your body, just to the eye contact, and also comes in.

224
00:30:37.820 --> 00:30:47.569
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: And then I'm going to what sort of we finish. For where I, for our example of this, of the work that uses carries. Well.

225
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:54.060
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: it's the work. I don't have a a full

226
00:30:54.190 --> 00:31:15.509
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: many outdoors to uses that it carries that in these latest significance, as it goes communication ski during the pandemic and the research Us. Global moon

227
00:31:15.530 --> 00:31:21.600
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: covid they also using, I know they they do.

228
00:31:22.180 --> 00:31:32.380
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: We do a quantitative study to to make it carries map. It carries mass core. Okay, that's what they do.

229
00:31:32.530 --> 00:31:33.470
And

230
00:31:34.870 --> 00:31:36.970
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: it shows how the

231
00:31:37.050 --> 00:31:41.279
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: these are tickets. So we we

232
00:31:46.790 --> 00:31:50.109
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: just imagine they close to her

233
00:31:56.750 --> 00:31:57.480
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: who

234
00:31:58.070 --> 00:32:06.340
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: and species speeches. So just imagine how different it's the classical concept of charisma and having a union.

235
00:32:06.460 --> 00:32:22.420
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: you know a unicorn is not a unique charismatic either as taking us a sample. 30 50 government speeches are measuring the charisma speeches. So you can see how elusive is this. So

236
00:32:27.630 --> 00:32:33.049
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: this is an example of how quantitative they are. Okay, they would carry

237
00:32:33.690 --> 00:32:34.920
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: a

238
00:32:34.990 --> 00:32:48.819
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: all 350, and they say which one is more charismatic. The by this idea of carries man. It's I'm not analyzed as how charisma

239
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:54.840
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: could be so elusive, or has such differences

240
00:32:55.730 --> 00:32:58.520
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: definition that they would go

241
00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:14.070
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: host to the from the unique world. With these unique characteristic, you are the you need leader to the some modern uses of Carrie's map that they are looking not for the unique or 3

242
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:20.029
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: 50 50 governments that that learn how to talk.

243
00:33:20.120 --> 00:33:28.260
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: And this is just what it's coming from. Charisma. A charisma may have different to post attributes.

244
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:45.550
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: It's really it like it's always was like, I don't know. It's really more. You don't know what they are talking when they say it's so use. So it's a regions come from. Say

245
00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:48.049
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: quickly, there's no like

246
00:33:53.670 --> 00:34:01.500
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: I already to all of them, and they are saved with. But now it secular uses from unique to regular.

247
00:34:02.410 --> 00:34:11.059
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: from in to the leader, to a qual, to a series of learnable skills, from extraordinary to ordinary.

248
00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:15.609
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: from a

249
00:34:17.680 --> 00:34:31.200
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: sonality to anyone, may learn to be one, and then it becomes similar to Bora, bureaucratic. Because if you can learn to be a bureaucratic, a charismatic person, as you can learn to be a bureaucratic, then

250
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:32.430
a

251
00:34:32.650 --> 00:34:41.849
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: they are the opposition. So Max, whatever they are, not working in spontaneous outsider to

252
00:34:42.460 --> 00:34:46.190
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: revolutionary changes, to leaders in establishes.

253
00:34:48.110 --> 00:35:14.099
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: So organization, leaving the masses to leaders of audience or the Internet followers subjective to objecting, magical to one day, missionaries to celebrities, and I just for Jesus Christ to Jesus Christ superstar. So this is only a few examples. I know that it's just a visual.

254
00:35:14.600 --> 00:35:18.989
It's more like a visual presentation. I couldn't. I didn't want to

255
00:35:19.250 --> 00:35:31.329
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: use more time. It's not like a very, you know. Oh, I think you can go out and and make a more detailed and probably a more

256
00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:36.190
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: profound

257
00:35:36.330 --> 00:35:40.530
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: presentation. A talking about your

258
00:35:41.370 --> 00:35:48.889
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: we of knowledge in teachers like a primary, a primary view.

259
00:35:49.650 --> 00:35:50.810
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: wait

260
00:35:53.300 --> 00:36:00.689
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: synthesized view. I was like, like like many money.

261
00:36:03.090 --> 00:36:15.230
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: it is of such an elusive concept. No, you have carries not in different. But I is not because he presents his himself out as an outside there trump.

262
00:36:15.270 --> 00:36:20.820
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: It's incredibly that that some of also narrow presents themselves as an outside

263
00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:23.590
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: he.

264
00:36:24.510 --> 00:36:25.810
for

265
00:36:28.170 --> 00:36:30.089
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: they do so.

266
00:36:31.510 --> 00:36:35.139
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: They don't come to from the political

267
00:36:40.750 --> 00:36:51.119
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: to patrimonial Sanka and and clientalism of the Latin American leaders, us. So that

268
00:36:53.990 --> 00:37:02.380
GINA ZABLUDOVSKY: and I have more answers than that, more questions than answer yourself after doing this presentation. Thank you

269
00:37:12.410 --> 00:37:20.520
Fabio Braun Carrasco: right. Thank you very much. Gina. In the meantime. Now, okay. So managed to join us, which is great.

270
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:29.420
Fabio Braun Carrasco: and they will be presenting social knowledge and understanding a critique of the native point of view.

271
00:37:29.859 --> 00:37:32.650
Fabio Braun Carrasco: the floor is all yours.

272
00:37:33.460 --> 00:37:34.340
Naoki Iso: Okay.

273
00:37:34.779 --> 00:37:38.979
Naoki Iso: thank you for introducing me. I try to

274
00:37:39.050 --> 00:37:42.320
Naoki Iso: share my price.

275
00:37:42.430 --> 00:37:43.090
Naoki Iso: I don't know.

276
00:37:48.729 --> 00:37:49.410
Naoki Iso: Hmm!

277
00:37:50.580 --> 00:37:51.529
Naoki Iso: I don't know.

278
00:37:51.979 --> 00:38:08.889
Naoki Iso: I have a problem with shame as right. But just let me share with some chat first.  yes. And have you tried the screen share button down there in the center?

279
00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:11.319
Naoki Iso: Okay, I try. But

280
00:38:18.149 --> 00:38:19.029
Naoki Iso: okay.

281
00:38:20.500 --> 00:38:21.670
Naoki Iso: me.

282
00:38:22.850 --> 00:38:25.840
Naoki Iso: yeah. But I don't know.

283
00:38:28.490 --> 00:38:29.189
Naoki Iso: And

284
00:38:35.240 --> 00:38:38.150
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: how are you? Okay?

285
00:38:38.240 --> 00:38:42.830
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: A file. You can share it.

286
00:38:43.290 --> 00:38:48.969
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I guess we'd ask for helping.

287
00:38:49.470 --> 00:38:50.860
Naoki Iso: You can do that.

288
00:38:51.210 --> 00:38:53.549
Fabio Braun Carrasco: It chat.

289
00:38:54.130 --> 00:38:58.029
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Then let me share it.

290
00:39:01.780 --> 00:39:03.430
Naoki Iso: maybe this.

291
00:39:05.850 --> 00:39:07.850
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Yes, just a second.

292
00:39:07.970 --> 00:39:08.730
Naoki Iso: Yeah.

293
00:39:10.540 --> 00:39:12.390
Fabio Braun Carrasco: this is the correct one. Right?

294
00:39:12.770 --> 00:39:15.329
Naoki Iso: Yes, that is correct. Yes.

295
00:39:15.490 --> 00:39:24.239
Fabio Braun Carrasco: So you just tell me when you want me to go to the next slide?

296
00:39:24.830 --> 00:39:37.909
Naoki Iso: Okay? so hello, everyone gay. My, I'm now P. Of from something that's about. And I'm presenting our social knowledge and us understanding a creature of the native point of view.

297
00:39:39.420 --> 00:39:50.440
Naoki Iso: So this quest, presentation with the H. God, let this and the starting point, for concerning such is his ideas.

298
00:39:50.480 --> 00:40:01.240
Naoki Iso: How about have

299
00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:06.520
Naoki Iso: the concept of that native point of view that is, by Minoski?

300
00:40:07.240 --> 00:40:12.940
Naoki Iso: Your classic

301
00:40:13.030 --> 00:40:17.829
Naoki Iso: and Socialists also tend to be generally an interesting in the concept.

302
00:40:18.570 --> 00:40:23.550
Naoki Iso: So and what is that? 90 point of view next slide is

303
00:40:25.710 --> 00:40:26.570
Naoki Iso: yes.

304
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:42.169
Naoki Iso: So he's

305
00:40:42.740 --> 00:40:55.939
Naoki Iso: to grab the native point of view she's raised on to dive to the I. She's a piece of you out in my Sorry my also cost your culture to be on a session or something. man or people.

306
00:40:57.120 --> 00:40:58.980
Naoki Iso: So our next slide, please.

307
00:41:00.260 --> 00:41:02.179
Naoki Iso: So then Max River.

308
00:41:02.330 --> 00:41:07.980
Naoki Iso: So as a class of sociology, I chose a Max over.

309
00:41:08.350 --> 00:41:14.520
Naoki Iso: And so the key passage in we have is the craft opening from the introduction to basic concept for for.

310
00:41:15.110 --> 00:41:26.810
Naoki Iso: And so, according to him. So it's a science. It's attempt to integrative understanding for so action in order there by to arrivals, calls or exponentials calls and effect.

311
00:41:26.990 --> 00:41:38.450
Naoki Iso: And so also between interact with the understanding and call. That expression is not univocal. It is certain that we cannot even know either understanding or explanation.

312
00:41:38.650 --> 00:41:47.590
Naoki Iso: It's a it's a, it's a it's a comparative historical rather than feedback. So that's the difference between Weber and min of scheme.

313
00:41:48.910 --> 00:41:52.170
Naoki Iso: So and and so also

314
00:41:52.890 --> 00:41:55.660
Naoki Iso: so wherever

315
00:41:56.200 --> 00:42:11.110
Naoki Iso: I'll get sorry this side. And this setting has so far examined the cross and and supporting concerning the meeting point of view. It can be pointed out here that out of the focus on culture and even on nature

316
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:13.880
Naoki Iso: but they

317
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:23.140
Naoki Iso: focus on culture and Asia both. But minor ski. And we have a interesting and culture rather than nature.

318
00:42:23.610 --> 00:42:30.549
Naoki Iso: So since the 19 nineties there has been a trend in supporting known as the On To.

319
00:42:30.810 --> 00:42:40.700
Naoki Iso: and this is an attempt to recognize to rightly, not to in culture, but also in nature, and to view the world through the multiple culture and multiple nature.

320
00:42:41.100 --> 00:42:46.250
Naoki Iso: One answer for this, who is positioned in such a current is free desk.

321
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:59.180
Naoki Iso: and this score is a success of ready source and share some aspects with Max Weber's competitive historical for such in that in that he has seen ancient and modern cultures as always

322
00:42:59.240 --> 00:43:00.719
Naoki Iso: next slide, please.

323
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:03.970
Naoki Iso: So

324
00:43:04.950 --> 00:43:13.000
Naoki Iso: and so this correct, could decide to get, because you know the the tech taste of nature.

325
00:43:13.460 --> 00:43:30.429
Naoki Iso: So in beyond nature and culture this presents 4 types of and to them is analogy and missing and naturalizing in relation to nature and culture, and uses and so positive nature to all we 65, or people

326
00:43:30.820 --> 00:43:34.889
Naoki Iso:  people themselves

327
00:43:35.500 --> 00:43:50.069
Naoki Iso: and the score in beyond nation culture does not mention gears, and does not venture into critique of integrated in with the, on the other hand because of the others. He mentions gears.

328
00:43:50.080 --> 00:44:04.279
Naoki Iso: even though it gets at going irrigation body. And Marco published in 1,972 highlights, people's adaption to their living environment as culture and suggestions between nature and culture in aviation is theme.

329
00:44:04.690 --> 00:44:05.870
Naoki Iso: It's by this

330
00:44:06.030 --> 00:44:10.100
Naoki Iso: that's correct. Good size. Get for forecasting only on culture.

331
00:44:10.250 --> 00:44:19.449
Naoki Iso: and get us interpreted on proposing, which tend to E equivocate. Nature seems incompatible in competitive with desk ands and proposal for nature.

332
00:44:19.950 --> 00:44:37.639
Naoki Iso: Well, this was pretty soon Vietnamese would also hit Weber. The letter to was not concerned with nature, and that was biased towards culture by focusing on nature the score made up, and the lack of consoles nature in wever. And yet

333
00:44:37.770 --> 00:44:39.250
Naoki Iso: next slide, please.

334
00:44:41.090 --> 00:44:47.390
Naoki Iso: So This going beyond nature and culture seems to have length the concrete fee behind.

335
00:44:47.490 --> 00:45:11.280
Naoki Iso: Litigate the net. I thought. It's a it's not native, it's password. It's a native point of view to the background. And looking at the Us. From the back side view. It's the eyes of scientific.

336
00:45:11.330 --> 00:45:21.050
Naoki Iso: but It cannot be said to be it'sography. The attempt to understand the usual people from native native perspective.

337
00:45:21.150 --> 00:45:29.250
Naoki Iso: In this score it seems obvious that it was the answer for this task to try to understand the other through ethnography.

338
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:36.960
Naoki Iso: and that that makes no clear distinction between human and no human

339
00:45:37.070 --> 00:45:38.570
Naoki Iso: next piece.

340
00:45:41.250 --> 00:45:53.180
Naoki Iso: So and this score up in in beyond nation culture seems to share. We us position that once does not need to be Caesar to understand us on Caesar.

341
00:45:53.720 --> 00:45:54.760
Naoki Iso: So

342
00:45:55.590 --> 00:46:01.810
Naoki Iso: it is a very different from the viewpoint of

343
00:46:02.030 --> 00:46:02.960
Naoki Iso: So

344
00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:13.529
Naoki Iso: so in terms of the pair, nature and culture, we as we, we're, we're, we're focused on your culture. And this graph focus on both

345
00:46:13.730 --> 00:46:16.059
Naoki Iso: as a result in the letter.

346
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:23.110
Naoki Iso: and the question of understanding, and even a graph of networking point of view is litigate to the background.

347
00:46:28.300 --> 00:46:42.739
Naoki Iso: We attempt to to describe a world composed of nation culture. These are the clear division between human and human, the ecosystem of a native. It's a match when focusing only on culture is diminished.

348
00:46:43.290 --> 00:46:45.959
Naoki Iso: Okay. next piece.

349
00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:51.859
Naoki Iso: So The 4 people discussed so far.

350
00:46:52.160 --> 00:47:02.940
Naoki Iso: which for? So they have one thing common, and they all seek to know others.

351
00:47:03.160 --> 00:47:17.060
Naoki Iso: They also have in common that the waiting with the subject to attempt to know the other is not question to the biases in physical and culture, attribute on the paths of the Sabbath to knowledge that we questions

352
00:47:17.280 --> 00:47:24.030
Naoki Iso: along with the ways of knowing us so. And that is my question.

353
00:47:25.350 --> 00:47:28.850
Naoki Iso: so they don't always like to find themselves

354
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:46.500
Naoki Iso: to overtake trying as us. Well, then, though that is what that is what I would want to question. and it is not only the right of knowing, but also the way of being of the subject, who seeks to know that that is the condition of for knowing the other. For example.

355
00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:51.160
Naoki Iso: is a person who has only acquired a certain native point of view

356
00:47:51.190 --> 00:47:58.689
Naoki Iso: as a native, and attribute, if he or she seeks to know the same native as the other.

357
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:02.009
Naoki Iso: So that is my question. And next, please.

358
00:48:03.770 --> 00:48:10.110
Naoki Iso: And then I discussed about Pierre Baudo and Abdi Mex Hayad. So

359
00:48:10.300 --> 00:48:15.770
Naoki Iso: okay, good. You us to ask you into the Aj involved in 1955,

360
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:40.810
Naoki Iso: Al Zealand, Abdul Mac sayed and good. You met you in the war, and the 2 would later continue to collaborate in France could you became assistant as the investor of Lg. In 1,958 during the war, and conducted research under the all species of association for research on population, economy, and society. There is a branch of French National Institute of static, say economics.

361
00:48:41.140 --> 00:48:45.909
Naoki Iso: And so one of the

362
00:48:46.120 --> 00:48:55.129
Naoki Iso: sorry it's Miss Typo. So who has them students in in psychology at the

363
00:48:55.200 --> 00:48:56.399
Naoki Iso: next piece.

364
00:48:57.670 --> 00:48:58.740
Naoki Iso: So

365
00:48:59.930 --> 00:49:04.650
Naoki Iso: so they study collaborating, and they did free work together in Algeria.

366
00:49:05.180 --> 00:49:06.610
Naoki Iso: And then they

367
00:49:07.110 --> 00:49:29.270
Naoki Iso: Co also at uprooting 19 64, and that the title is called There are cinema in French, but it's English title is an uprooting, so I I call it uprooting here, and the work concerns the social, constant consequences of the full 3 sentimental pendant in many parts of Asia during the Ajo so.

368
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:51.330
Naoki Iso: and traditional piston culture in Algeria it just integral to the land and agriculture practice. As nature is destroyed by the French, all side is for you folks. We settlement, so the farmers are forced to move somewhere. And so because of the the politics of French or societies during the war.

369
00:49:51.410 --> 00:50:00.660
Naoki Iso: and many of the they are uprooted.

370
00:50:01.220 --> 00:50:10.419
Naoki Iso: having root is shown there to be important, not only for human to human relations, but also for human, to know human relations next piece.

371
00:50:12.910 --> 00:50:13.910
Naoki Iso: So

372
00:50:14.330 --> 00:50:21.850
Naoki Iso: I question that chat can well still be native if one is displaced and uploaded.

373
00:50:22.390 --> 00:50:50.409
Naoki Iso: But in uprooting the tradition present, who are natives, we are to the for 3 session. He sentiment are also discussed. In doing so it can be set that Bjou and Sayat were trying to capture the situation in which those who are once natives could no longer be so. However, Gj. And Sayya do not attempt to capture only culture, but to understand those who may or may not be natives while connecting nature and culture

374
00:50:51.450 --> 00:50:54.920
Naoki Iso: next piece. So in some

375
00:50:55.220 --> 00:51:01.199
Naoki Iso: some of the what that to all set them to do in uprooting was carried over into weight of the wall.

376
00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:02.780
Naoki Iso: And it's

377
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:10.569
Naoki Iso: and in that it that research

378
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:13.269
Naoki Iso: what was contact in France.

379
00:51:14.310 --> 00:51:19.229
Naoki Iso: And in the end of 19 eighties and then beginning of 1990 s.

380
00:51:19.680 --> 00:51:35.169
Naoki Iso: So the 23 also has integrated 50 to people. And he he's interviews a rice history each with a short comment day. But it's also the end of the book. Would you write the?

381
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:39.270
Naoki Iso: And so the fast is that the

382
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:42.760
Naoki Iso: so, according to broad you so

383
00:51:42.870 --> 00:51:49.019
Naoki Iso: understanding and exponential, are the same thing. So that is what so will you

384
00:51:49.520 --> 00:52:08.149
Naoki Iso: discussing. And the first is that the service and interview are seeing and social relations between the Savior and the savvy. that all kinds of distortion is inscribed in the very structural savvy relationship, and that this distortion need to be recognized and suppressed.

385
00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:09.530
Naoki Iso: The second.

386
00:52:09.730 --> 00:52:30.590
Naoki Iso: And so which is closely related to the fast, either emphasis on the other of this activity, which is unique to Google, as it is necessary to do to do this, not through the application of some, some some method, or some theoretical conversation, but it. But in the reflective and mythological contact of in this investigation itself.

387
00:52:30.940 --> 00:52:32.430
Naoki Iso: next, please.

388
00:52:33.630 --> 00:52:39.169
Naoki Iso: And so so then so

389
00:52:39.180 --> 00:52:42.420
Naoki Iso: need to be

390
00:52:42.690 --> 00:52:52.600
Naoki Iso: to do their own research. So that is the point of respectivity, the respectivity, if I to here is not limited to intersection in the mind.

391
00:52:52.700 --> 00:53:04.189
Naoki Iso: So it's not done this specular things. It's some practice. It also requires objects of how the researchers, body action, manifest themselves in the real world.

392
00:53:04.250 --> 00:53:11.830
Naoki Iso: how they affect the investigated person and the one social relations are formed by researcher, and in this to the person.

393
00:53:12.040 --> 00:53:20.510
Naoki Iso: In addition to that analysis in which the research that is direct interaction. So research and not to the research itself. Okay.

394
00:53:20.820 --> 00:53:40.000
Naoki Iso: reflectivity is required as a practice in this side to get on to know the research better than process of research. The success is not only required to advance the knowledge and budget states that he tried to minimize as much as possible that cinematic violence that might be exercise through that interviewing relationship

395
00:53:40.150 --> 00:53:42.059
Naoki Iso: next week.

396
00:53:42.840 --> 00:54:05.229
Naoki Iso: So then, so say it was born in 1,903, 1,933 said was a Ajay, and from Kabilia region, after the after the end of January, he any way to France as a researcher, and continue to live there until his death in 1,998, and his immigration to France. He was a native of Kabilia.

397
00:54:05.330 --> 00:54:22.800
Naoki Iso: Now, after moving to France, he experienced the double ever since. He was neither physically in caviar, not symbolically in France. In other words, he was not cons to native, either by those who contributed to in Korea or by those who conquered, leaving France as French.

398
00:54:23.250 --> 00:54:37.809
Naoki Iso: and so the buyer service. That side of conducting Algeria and France were all of people who share his own attribute as a native. So in Asia. Here's Nick Simon from Cavalier

399
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:44.789
Naoki Iso: and I. He was a immigrant, so he's research about Asian immigrant in France.

400
00:54:45.220 --> 00:54:49.769
Naoki Iso: and in this sense inside the conduct is research as a native.

401
00:54:50.230 --> 00:55:01.740
Naoki Iso: So the unique case of finding argument applies in the fact that he was aware of his own fragile existence in existence as a need, and try to understand people who were similar

402
00:55:01.830 --> 00:55:08.120
Naoki Iso: in doing so. What he and sayed and building practice was reflectivity.

403
00:55:09.070 --> 00:55:14.379
Naoki Iso: next, please. So it's conclusion that my conclusion

404
00:55:14.700 --> 00:55:29.040
Naoki Iso: so I have this thing. As for the the conclusion, after cultural relatives in the Ontario town, it is a reproduction of knowledge within a scientific system that unsupported is not so, the other says, but

405
00:55:29.240 --> 00:55:31.979
Naoki Iso: then this is not in itself a problem.

406
00:55:32.020 --> 00:55:45.710
Naoki Iso: No one is there like reflection on the part of anthropologists. What is needed, as Tani and Sakai also point out, is to to know what brand sports are created by the scientific scientific system.

407
00:55:45.820 --> 00:56:03.370
Naoki Iso: and in this way, both in anthropology and it becomes easier to become aware of what the scientific system makes invisible about the people on the study. So the problem is not being native or not. But the brands want of scientists, knowledge.

408
00:56:04.170 --> 00:56:19.999
Naoki Iso: And a similar argument is developed in science of science and the security using the concept to using a concept of scientific field in him. If activity was it's the most part practice we required to advance scientific knowledge. In other words.

409
00:56:20.180 --> 00:56:24.770
Naoki Iso: it is

410
00:56:25.390 --> 00:56:33.490
Naoki Iso: a a better that if the extrem is required, which is a way of knowing, as a through one means of sale analysis.

411
00:56:33.620 --> 00:56:38.180
Naoki Iso: So so that is that, is it? thank you very much for attention.

412
00:56:46.790 --> 00:56:58.609
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Thank you very much for your presentation. then we would move on to the next and last presentation before we come to a discussion round.

413
00:56:59.370 --> 00:57:03.740
Fabio Braun Carrasco: and the next presentation will be held by.

414
00:57:03.980 --> 00:57:13.690
Fabio Braun Carrasco: And

415
00:57:14.640 --> 00:57:19.200
Fabio Braun Carrasco: so, yes, the Floss is your. The floor is yours. Thank you very much.

416
00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:22.650
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Okay, so thank you. And

417
00:57:27.080 --> 00:57:29.920
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: thank you.

418
00:57:33.760 --> 00:57:50.600
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Thank you for you for introducing us. we will now like to share our screen so that you can see a little comparative table between the offers that we are going to work through in our presentation so that you don't get lost.

419
00:57:50.900 --> 00:57:52.800
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: as we speak.

420
00:58:05.100 --> 00:58:10.560
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Can you please tell me if you can see the the table properly?

421
00:58:11.640 --> 00:58:12.650
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Yes.

422
00:58:14.520 --> 00:58:32.739
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: okay, thank you. Then we will start. I am Kenya. I'm here. My colleague is for me, and we did this little work with another colleague of ours who couldn't be here today, one in Nasia. And but we will both be presenting different parts of them

423
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:48.740
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: of this paper to you today. And hoping that you, you can follow our our argument. So the title of our work, as Fabio already said, is the concept of masses in Quijano.

424
00:58:49.210 --> 00:59:00.659
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: As an introduction, we would like to say that. Well, the concept of masses is, of course, central to many contemporary critical social theories, both from the North and from the South.

425
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:27.309
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Among them who would like to highlight 3 simultaneous reflections on it by the Peruvian and New Yorkihana, the German herward Marcousa, and the Argentinian Hong Kong of port and data between the late 1960 S. And the 19 seventies. This is a period in which, from a generalized process of crisis, radicalization and political polarization. The masses acquire a great protagonism.

426
00:59:27.310 --> 00:59:40.719
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Within this framework. Each of these 3 theories focuses mainly on a specific dimension of the social, that is to say, it approaches the concept of masses within a specific sphere of problematization.

427
00:59:41.190 --> 01:00:06.140
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: In Kikhano's case it will be the economic dimension in the cultural and important theatos. The in this paper. We will focus, then, on tracing 3 different elements within these reflections. A. The vocabulary and notions with which each author refers to the masses, such as multitudes, popular classes, mass media, marginal sectors, etc.

428
01:00:06.140 --> 01:00:32.590
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Be the dichotomy some conceptual tensions that arise. They are from, for example, between reactionary and progressive masses, between mobilized masses or publix, between masses and elites, or between intellectuals and masses, and see the descriptive, explanatory, and or normative discussive registers that make up the tone of each theoretical proposal.

429
01:00:32.950 --> 01:00:47.289
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: After analyzing in detail the perspectives of On the concept of masses, we will draw some comparative conclusions, marking the similarities and differences between them, according to the 3 dimensions mentioned about

430
01:00:48.000 --> 01:01:01.739
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: so. Now I will refer to the concept of masses in the work of Kika in the early 19 seventies, and you Al Qaeda, approaches the question of masses in relation to the problem of nationality.

431
01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:28.059
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: According to his interpretation, in 2 of his days marginal poll a marginal workforce of 1970 and redefinition of dependency on marginalization process in Latin America of 1973, the processes of marginalization of the urban population only become intelligible in the framework, in the framework of profound transformations. In relation of a structural economic dependence.

432
01:01:28.060 --> 01:01:33.409
this process involves 3 interconnected effects on the economic structure of society.

433
01:01:33.630 --> 01:01:55.549
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: First, the sectors in which foreign capital and technology intensive companies operate, then to expand, forming a central or for exchange for, secondly, the development of intermediate companies is he end up thoroughly, and and if of special interest to us, what he kind of calls the national poll of the economy expands and takes shape.

434
01:01:55.700 --> 01:02:08.659
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: That is a social, productive fear that groups together the production of handicrafts, the supply of services and agricultural activities with a minimal level of productivity subordinated to the central core.

435
01:02:09.040 --> 01:02:24.599
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: It's starting from the general framing of the phenomenon of Martin. I'm a leak of martinality. In such economic processes. Khan establishes a relationship between marionality and masses that give price to a specific vocabulary on the characteristic of the latter.

436
01:02:24.720 --> 01:02:25.810
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: For him

437
01:02:26.010 --> 01:02:38.159
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: the marginal poll gives rise to a mask of marginal labor which, due to the structural conditions from which it emerges, acquires a surplus and floating existence. In this sense

438
01:02:38.220 --> 01:02:44.959
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: it differs from the classical Marxist Industrial Reserve army and the problem of relative overpopulation.

439
01:02:45.160 --> 01:02:59.990
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: On the one hand, this is because the available labor force in the marginal poll does not operate as a trade transition reserve, but it's configured as a surplus prop population. On the other hand.

440
01:02:59.990 --> 01:03:19.670
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: the marginal mass of labor is not intermediate, interchangeable with that of the monopolistic sectors, but with that of the non monopolistic intermediate enterprises, the latter never may manage to expand, and only only only reproduce their subordinate position in relation to the sectors, control by a foreign monopoly capital.

441
01:03:19.720 --> 01:03:32.069
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: The marginal poll keeps the wages of those workers much more depressed, since, in the absence of new expansionary cycles for that sector. It does not fulfill a reserve function either.

442
01:03:32.260 --> 01:03:44.850
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: and already operates by pushing down wages. This characteristic is combined with the fluctuations and intermittency of such economic activities which makes the marginal labor force a floating labor force.

443
01:03:44.950 --> 01:04:03.949
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: The dichotomies or conceptual tensions that arise from this characterization of the masses are linked to the study of their internal composition, and mainly to the question of their political significance. For the outer, the social interest of them marginalized, operate on 2 levels.

444
01:04:04.260 --> 01:04:18.419
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: On the one hand, they have a basic social interest, which is, they're stable incorporation into the the She Monic productive roles of society. On the other hand, in the absence of this possibility, they have an in

445
01:04:18.610 --> 01:04:44.029
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: immediate interest in procuring their means of survival. As for the processes of a formation groups, either existing and potential. He points out that they are marked by these 2 tendencies, and that in the most radical expressions they have the particularity of promoting community and traditional forms of organization, particularly those link to the real world which me runs from from the countryside to the city

446
01:04:44.760 --> 01:05:04.379
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: during the period in which he cannot carry out his analysis. These forms of organization and collective action are reflected in the land tissues that take place out a on the outskirts of the city. In this processes direct democracy and collective land use are recurrent

447
01:05:04.770 --> 01:05:16.060
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: mit Ctl. And in connection with these reflections on the political significance of the masses. We are interested in proposing that the most important conceptual tension of the economy concerns the link between masses and groups 150.

448
01:05:16.860 --> 01:05:34.360
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: If we follow the author's argument. The mass of marginal labor, at least in principle, does not constitute the group mit.

449
01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:57.630
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: but even more so, the relevance that community organization acquires, since he's in his study of the political tendencies of the marginal masses. In this sense we understand that in the Commune, in the communal forms, in the communal forms, the possibility of the displays displacement of the mass from marsional labor to the confirmation of a group with a specific interest and objectives.

450
01:05:57.950 --> 01:06:11.440
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: To conclude, we may dwell on the discursive registers in supply by implied by this approach to the message. In our opinion, in the first place, he cannot be implies. It is a descriptive register.

451
01:06:11.780 --> 01:06:27.320
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: This means that the outer resource to the concept to account for a particular social phenomenon, the immersions of a sum of individuals who, due to their structural position, operate as a whole as a floating and surplus element of the labor market.

452
01:06:27.810 --> 01:06:55.950
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Secondly, the concept of marginal mass of labor is linked to a normative register for the outdoor. The marginal mass, as an emergent of a structural economic process, represents a sort of pre political state. This does not make the message near a negative, or they, or a desirable phenomenon, but it implies that their political significance is not prior to their mobilization. Therefore, in normative terms, it is an open or undefined phenomenon.

453
01:06:57.450 --> 01:07:05.019
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Okay. So now, moving on to A and his critique of mass communication media and of mass education

454
01:07:05.300 --> 01:07:23.639
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: and the main place where Marcosa deals with the topic of the masses is in his 1,965 essay repressive tolerance. There he analyzes the ideology of the mass media around the so called freedom of opinion, which is often defended in the name of some notion of tolerance.

455
01:07:23.640 --> 01:07:39.409
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: His main argument is that the current form of tolerance is in the advanced industrial society is that of pure tolerance, that is, an abstract, supposedly impartial tolerance, which is presented as one that does not take sides.

456
01:07:39.750 --> 01:07:46.569
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Pure tolerance is that which paradoxically tolerates intolerance and violent actions

457
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:56.399
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: and opinions, and at the same time, on the contrary, rep represses alternative actions and opinions to the dominant ones, considering them Utopian.

458
01:07:56.670 --> 01:08:07.019
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: In this sense pure tolerance is to the same extent a repressive tolerance. It is not true freedom of opinion, for it excludes

459
01:08:07.170 --> 01:08:13.889
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: critical ideas, but, on the contrary, it is slavery to the given to what it helps to naturalize

460
01:08:14.010 --> 01:08:32.229
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: this antagonistic structure of society restricts the rules of the game, of the debate of ideas. It protects false words and unjust facts, thus preventing the generalized circulation of elements that might otherwise mobilize a qualitative social transformation.

461
01:08:32.620 --> 01:08:55.380
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: In this context the path towards a more humanistic society is not for Marcosa. The current notion of tolerance which leads to tolerate and accept with resignation what there is because one has been convinced that nothing can be done but much more radically periodic criticism with respect to the predominant common sense disseminated through the mass media

462
01:08:55.590 --> 01:09:00.079
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: thus a liberating tolerance as opposed to a repressive tolerance.

463
01:09:00.090 --> 01:09:25.200
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: would be one that, as it's exact opposite tolerates, actions and opinions generally despised. While not tolerating official actions and opinions. Its values are justice, pacification, fraternity, all those that seem to have disappeared from social life in the advanced industrial society of monopolistic capitalism, constant wars, or today, we might say, social networks, etc.

464
01:09:25.430 --> 01:09:41.239
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: In turn, what is happening in the mass, media has consequences in the field of mass. Education, indeed, an education in line with repressive tolerance, indoctrinates new generations in a certain image of the established world as having no alternatives.

465
01:09:41.270 --> 01:10:02.580
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: A liberating education, on the other hand, would present counter images of the world which would account for its contradictions for all that is repressed in it, and which, by fostering logic and fantasy together, could investigate the possibilities already Latin in that official world in pursuit of its improvement for the people.

466
01:10:02.710 --> 01:10:08.269
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: This undoubtedly implies going against what is maintained by the mass media.

467
01:10:08.940 --> 01:10:25.619
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: so as can be seen, the fundamental dimension from which Mercury approaches the problem in the masses is the cultural dimension, because, of course, communicative media and education, since the vocabulary in which the problem of masses, in fact appears is precisely that of the mass media one

468
01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:27.269
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: and mass education.

469
01:10:27.410 --> 01:10:31.260
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: The central conceptual tension of this reflection

470
01:10:31.950 --> 01:10:48.830
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: is that of requested tolerance. The ideology of the mass media versus liberating tolerance is, except opposite, from which other tensions derive, such as common sense versus heretic criticism or official world use versus alternative counter images.

471
01:10:49.010 --> 01:11:15.160
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Finally, the discursive register in which the author enunciates his theory is clearly normative, since his goal is always and explicitly to question the diagnosed state of affairs. The way in which the mass media disseminates a violent ideology in contemporary society, along with a proposal that may help to rewards or at least minimize the situation. The strengthening of critical counter tendencies.

472
01:11:16.650 --> 01:11:19.310
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Now I will move to the

473
01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:31.780
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: concept of masses in

474
01:11:31.800 --> 01:12:01.749
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: the famous status on the origins of Baronism, in coal, in quotership with Miguel Mormon. He's mainly concerned with refusing the classic hypotheses on the role of internal mirrors in the immersions of baronism, likewise in dominant class and political crisis in contemporary Argentina of 1,973, he analyzes, on the basis of of of historical naturalism the tensions and contradictions that cross the country at the economic, social, and political, social levels.

475
01:12:01.750 --> 01:12:04.980
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: We focus here on this later text.

476
01:12:04.980 --> 01:12:20.460
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: The author brings into play too closely related conceptual levels, that of the social classes and that of the social forces. The first is linked to the objective structure, while the second is linked to the political ideological superstructure.

477
01:12:20.460 --> 01:12:41.540
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: If at the level of social classes, nest the concept of class alliance, key to understanding the articulation of classes and class fractions at the level of social forces. The concept of block of forces is imposed which refers to the complex process of constitution in which the consciousness and will of the social actors intervene.

478
01:12:42.340 --> 01:12:46.869
Thus, finally, contradictions operate on the basis of a domination

479
01:12:47.250 --> 01:12:59.820
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: at the level of the Class Alliance. He speaks of a predominance of search and interest over over others, while at the level of the block of forces. He speaks of the hegemony of a given political project

480
01:13:00.630 --> 01:13:15.750
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: as they all through points out. The interest here is not in analyzing the mechanisms operating within the economic structure with which is an assumption of his research, but it, but in examining the way in which the manifest

481
01:13:15.750 --> 01:13:40.420
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: in in which this manifest itself at the political level in Argentina, in the period of 1,955, 1,973. This is why we say that this fear of problematization of the masses is linked important to you predominantly to the political dimension. In what census, then does. This takes for rametize the concept of masses. We can point to at least 2.

482
01:13:41.010 --> 01:13:49.619
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: First, the outer uses search and vocabulary in relation to the concept of masses. Above all, he's at she. Activation stands out.

483
01:13:49.640 --> 01:13:57.840
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: The concept of masses is invariably associated with notions such as popular, mobilized, and exploited

484
01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:22.830
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: by popular masses. He refers to those world sectors that did not feel represented through the party system. In the context of the political prescription of the majority party that followed the copy that overthrew Quran in 1,955, and lasted until 1,973, intensifying from 1,966, with an authoritarian government, and reaching a point of maximum tension in 1,960,

485
01:14:22.830 --> 01:14:23.350
you know.

486
01:14:24.250 --> 01:14:53.319
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: But this masses also means something more than the search of for for political representation the social mobilization of main 1,969, known as Cordovasso, marks a milestone of the greatest transcendence. The masses are here for both. Ontario push to historical action in the framework of a revolutionary situation. Taking up the classic planning definition, we can say that they behave, and that they behave as revolutionary message. In this sense

487
01:14:53.600 --> 01:15:19.820
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: the masses acquire other not no one's. Not only do they turn out to be popular, both in terms of their political subscription and their social origin, but they are mobilized by their material interest in the terms of port and zeros, particular material, it materials historical reading. They are the set of forces that express their their class interest as masses exploited by the dependent capital system.

488
01:15:20.860 --> 01:15:46.370
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Secondly, and finally, we find operating in this text, serve time, a discursive registers, descriptive and normally associated with the problematization of the masses. This, of course, in a specific historical constructor, mark by the Asheemonic standoff between the dominant fractions of the ruling class that finds it greatest point of tension against the popular classes around 1,969.

489
01:15:46.750 --> 01:16:03.159
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: At the district. At the descriptive level 2 dimensions comes in into play, one linked to political representation. The popular masses in their great maturity, do not find ways of political participation, because the majority party, that is, the Baroness, is banned

490
01:16:03.160 --> 01:16:27.989
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: and the other material. The masses fight, organize, mobilize for their own class interests. On the other hand, attending to the normative level, we find that the masses, when incorporated into a constructor, characterized as revolutionary a situation acquire certain characteristics that prescribe a determined course of action. It is the exploited mices who are called to break

491
01:16:27.990 --> 01:16:36.190
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: with the situation of elimination. I'm suburb, the social order that is to become the check, the active subject of the Socialist revolution.

492
01:16:37.380 --> 01:17:02.750
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Okay. And now, to finish off on, to round up what we have been saying, and hopefully you have been able to to follow, Our lead through the table that we've shared here with you? We can do a very quick comparison between the 3 authors along the the 3 dimensions that we mentioned at the beginning of the of the presentation. So

493
01:17:03.150 --> 01:17:08.589
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: to take the first example of a new Al Qaeda. The the years here refer to the

494
01:17:08.710 --> 01:17:13.550
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: the years of the publications that we worked with.

495
01:17:14.820 --> 01:17:27.909
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: we have the vocabulary, the tensions, the sphere, the social sphere in which they predominantly find the masses and the discursive register. So in the case of we can see that

496
01:17:28.220 --> 01:17:31.230
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: in the economic sphere.

497
01:17:32.050 --> 01:17:56.759
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: and with a mainly descriptive and also a little bit of normative register. He speaks of a marginal poll and of a marginal workforce when he thinks of the masses and the tensions that arise in there are that of a dispersed mass of imaginer workforce versus on the other side a communal group of organized and mobilized marginal workers. In the case of Markel's

498
01:17:56.760 --> 01:18:10.839
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: in the sphere of culture, and with a clearly a normative register. He speaks of mass communication media and of mass education, and we can see we can see there at least 3,

499
01:18:10.860 --> 01:18:30.920
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: a dichotomy or conceptual tensions. One would be, of course, repressive tolerance against liberating tolerance, another one could be common sense versus credit critique, and a third one could be official world view versus alternative counter images, and In the third case, in the case of

500
01:18:30.950 --> 01:18:50.880
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Standing in mainly in the sphere of the political and with a descriptive register, and also with a clear normative register. He speaks of the unexploited popular masses, with no representation, or, on the other side of a revolutionary mobilized masses, that that would be

501
01:18:50.880 --> 01:19:18.280
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: the the 2 moments right, and therefore the the conceptual sessions that arise there are, on the one hand, the structure of social classes against the superstructure of social forces so clearly with the materialist and or dialectical materialism that farming was talking about, we consider so the economy and the political right, but he focuses mainly on the political, this the same they got on me up here in the next

502
01:19:18.280 --> 01:19:44.920
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: point we can see here with which is Class Alliance, which would be the economical Class Alliance, of course, versus the political force block. And in the same sense we can speak of economical exploitation versus political domination, which is his main preoccupation. So I hope you have enjoyed our presentation. And thank you very much for for listening to us, and

503
01:19:45.100 --> 01:19:51.440
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: hopefully we should have some questions and answers. We I know I have some questions, so thank you.

504
01:19:58.860 --> 01:20:02.099
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Thank you very much for your presentation.

505
01:20:02.580 --> 01:20:09.859
Fabio Braun Carrasco:  so we would have roughly half an hour now for questions. So

506
01:20:10.220 --> 01:20:23.070
Fabio Braun Carrasco: maybe let's just collect a few, and then if there are more later. We just do another round. And yes, please inform us if there is questions from the audience as well, we can't see from here.

507
01:20:23.550 --> 01:20:28.760
Fabio Braun Carrasco: so please let us know otherwise. Whoever wants to pose a question, please raise your hands.

508
01:20:29.470 --> 01:20:39.050
I just want to say, if people want to ask questions, it's probably better to come at the podium here because they can see you, and they can hear you, or you can use the microphone over there.

509
01:20:50.540 --> 01:20:52.179
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Yes, a of Kenya.

510
01:20:55.480 --> 01:21:08.289
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Okay? So I have a question for Sheena, and I also have a question for now. for Sheena. I would like to ask her. I I thought it.

511
01:21:08.410 --> 01:21:12.830
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: All of the presentations were very interesting. Of course.

512
01:21:13.290 --> 01:21:22.470
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: E. C.

513
01:21:22.530 --> 01:21:23.880
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: If before.

514
01:21:23.890 --> 01:21:28.369
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: if before charisma was when it was not a learnable skill.

515
01:21:28.400 --> 01:21:33.400
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: it was only a characteristic of leaders, and therefore of

516
01:21:33.640 --> 01:21:50.449
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: well, of very particular types of people. Can we now say, after charisma is a learnable, skilled by everyone, or potentially by everyone. Can we say that now charisma is something that the masses can have, or something that the masses

517
01:21:51.140 --> 01:22:10.679
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: might have if they learn it. So so especially, I'm thinking of the masses participating on the web, right? So on social media and forums and etc. That would be my question. I don't know if it. If you could understand it. If not, I can formulate it again. And for now a key. So my question was.

518
01:22:11.150 --> 01:22:18.300
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: would you say after your presentation, that nature is an elusive concept

519
01:22:18.410 --> 01:22:31.469
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: by which I mean how can you grasp nature, after all, if not always with the means of a of categories and and language itself, which is already cultural.

520
01:22:32.380 --> 01:22:35.650
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: I don't know if yeah. So that's thank you.

521
01:22:40.090 --> 01:22:43.969
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Okay, I think vermin also has a question. Please go ahead.

522
01:22:44.460 --> 01:23:01.719
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Yes. Well, first of all, thank you very much to all of you, and I would like to ask a question to Pablo and Alexandro about the concepts, I will. I was thinking about. If the elusive concepts would be more,

523
01:23:01.750 --> 01:23:16.110
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Related to the frontier of the discipline. Right? So if if if you thought about that, and if you would like to make a comment about that right, if he well, that that's a question. Thank you.

524
01:23:31.250 --> 01:23:36.639
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Okay, maybe we can first have a few responses and then we do some more questions.

525
01:23:36.830 --> 01:23:45.739
Gina Zabludovsky: So maybe Gina first and then. Now, okay, thank you for your I'm sorry about that. I'm not able to put the in my book.

526
01:23:46.040 --> 01:23:47.100
Gina Zabludovsky: Okay?

527
01:23:47.160 --> 01:23:58.059
Gina Zabludovsky: Because the Internet, okay, I'm sorry. Well, thank you for your question, and I found you presentation very interesting. I really would like to look more carefully at

528
01:23:58.190 --> 01:24:04.850
Gina Zabludovsky: at it. What? Well, first, and we have to remember, and I think that it's

529
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:07.500
Gina Zabludovsky: that carries me

530
01:24:07.680 --> 01:24:16.030
Gina Zabludovsky: is a question of legitimacy in bever step and legitimacy has to do with the followers.

531
01:24:16.180 --> 01:24:38.469
Gina Zabludovsky: Why, the followers are following a person who are following a regime. It doesn't have to do with the leader. I mean, the followers think that the leader is sacred already, or that the bureaucracy acts according to the norms and below. So that's why they follow. So so the question is.

532
01:24:38.500 --> 01:24:43.500
Gina Zabludovsky: why do they follow? That's the key question for legitimacy

533
01:24:43.650 --> 01:24:48.719
Gina Zabludovsky: it as opposed to just power like power. It's, say, Bro. There.

534
01:24:49.120 --> 01:25:01.629
Gina Zabludovsky: a a broader concept and legitimacy has to do with the questions, why did they follow either the leader charismatic or the bureaucracy or the traditional.

535
01:25:01.710 --> 01:25:07.600
Gina Zabludovsky: So when I find this. I can't say if

536
01:25:08.020 --> 01:25:17.150
Gina Zabludovsky: what I wanted to say is that it's really a elusive concept, and it's a concept that ha! That has several meetings.

537
01:25:17.290 --> 01:25:22.890
Gina Zabludovsky: you know. Some kind of mix still define charisma as he nar it

538
01:25:23.150 --> 01:25:30.050
Gina Zabludovsky: all the one, especially in management. Think that you can learn to have charisma.

539
01:25:30.110 --> 01:25:37.150
Gina Zabludovsky: Okay, so, but still, all there's things that that it's generically so it's

540
01:25:37.160 --> 01:25:47.960
Gina Zabludovsky: I don't know, according to the academic. So the people, or even the teacher or the professional for teaching courses for managerial.

541
01:25:48.080 --> 01:26:12.889
Gina Zabludovsky: a executive to become charismatic, though because I teach courses how to speak, how to do things. How will you? What your body? Okay, if you if you did develop some so some skills, then you you are able to become a charismatic person, and that will they, will they

542
01:26:13.480 --> 01:26:27.959
Gina Zabludovsky: a all, if you say that all people say it to to be a charismatic person, according to this special interpretation, that it's a way of interpret it. Then they don't usually talk about the masses

543
01:26:28.810 --> 01:26:49.040
Gina Zabludovsky: because the masses has to do more with political analysis. Okay? So they they they just they usually talk more about individual or how they you become charismatic. And all the managers, you know, they don't usually talk like the Ma. That we are wanted to choose one of the message to be called charismatic.

544
01:26:49.270 --> 01:26:58.090
Gina Zabludovsky: but in theory everyone may become charismatic. but the opposition between masses and leader

545
01:26:59.740 --> 01:27:10.080
Gina Zabludovsky: according to the political PIN fingers. What! You are the special to the masses? No masses and charismatic leader. It's a

546
01:27:10.820 --> 01:27:20.279
Gina Zabludovsky: well, I'm thinking I don't have a a really an answer, but I do think that those who think that

547
01:27:20.380 --> 01:27:25.569
Gina Zabludovsky: that that it carries

548
01:27:26.020 --> 01:27:36.730
Gina Zabludovsky: they are not usually worried about the Us. They talk more about individuals, they talk more about citizens, and they talk more about

549
01:27:36.810 --> 01:27:48.649
Gina Zabludovsky: about say, you know the auto promotion, or you know or entrepreneurs this versus managers. There's like, it's another kind of language.

550
01:27:49.010 --> 01:27:56.859
Gina Zabludovsky: They don't usually say what we are going to choose from some phone, someone from the masses. It's not usually in their vocabulary.

551
01:27:56.990 --> 01:27:59.059
Gina Zabludovsky: but in their view

552
01:27:59.260 --> 01:28:03.440
Gina Zabludovsky: it can happen. If you come in, then everyone can learn.

553
01:28:03.870 --> 01:28:08.899
Gina Zabludovsky: But they they see society boy, like some of individuals.

554
01:28:10.440 --> 01:28:11.710
Gina Zabludovsky: independent.

555
01:28:12.020 --> 01:28:28.670
Gina Zabludovsky: You know this view of society and liberal liberal be of society that see each individual. One may do one effort to be to to be the to be. He's so that he can learn.

556
01:28:29.690 --> 01:28:35.410
Gina Zabludovsky: and I don't think they are worried about the message. That's all there all their trends in to see that.

557
01:28:36.740 --> 01:28:38.359
Gina Zabludovsky: That's what I think.

558
01:28:38.500 --> 01:28:40.569
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Thank you.

559
01:28:49.550 --> 01:28:58.770
Naoki Iso: Yes. Then. Now, okay, please. Okay, thank you very much for your question. So the question is about the way.

560
01:28:59.360 --> 01:29:13.220
Naoki Iso: how to describe the nature right? I think so. so. When I had the question, I have thought about Bruno, that.

561
01:29:13.670 --> 01:29:16.890
Naoki Iso: So he presented a.

562
01:29:17.650 --> 01:29:23.880
Naoki Iso: And according to him, so theore is not long is so even. No human like

563
01:29:24.760 --> 01:29:41.610
Naoki Iso: like rock or desk have. It's their own series. So so act up and not no human has a theory, and so like. So here, I know, I know human have networks, and they have on their theory.

564
01:29:41.740 --> 01:29:55.959
Naoki Iso: And then we can discuss that the network and actors. So that's what we're not to discuss. I disagree with him because I think we can. Only

565
01:29:56.350 --> 01:30:00.030
Naoki Iso: we can describe nature only by dangers, and was

566
01:30:00.140 --> 01:30:05.379
Naoki Iso: so and so. as you

567
01:30:05.930 --> 01:30:17.569
Naoki Iso: as you said the So if if you, if we describe nature by language, it can be culture. Yes, it is, I think. Yes, so we we we cannot

568
01:30:17.770 --> 01:30:30.340
Naoki Iso: escaped from on culture or language. I think so. But We can try to see the nature as multiple and poorer, not as right like

569
01:30:30.370 --> 01:30:32.319
Naoki Iso: we cannot

570
01:30:32.490 --> 01:30:46.989
Naoki Iso: I, we can try, like, see the nature of other than see other than just see that law like in basel law, but that we can see the nature of multiple and gloro as as culture.

571
01:30:47.390 --> 01:30:58.509
Naoki Iso: And we can describe how nature and culture relate to each other. So that's what that's what I think. So. So I I just to so thank you.

572
01:31:05.200 --> 01:31:08.790
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Yes. Then there was a question for Lehandro and Pablo. I think.

573
01:31:09.650 --> 01:31:14.580
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Thank you very much for all the presentations.

574
01:31:14.830 --> 01:31:17.469
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: They were great. And

575
01:31:19.940 --> 01:31:25.969
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and now a thank you for me for the question, and

576
01:31:26.020 --> 01:31:39.310
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: well, I I think that there is a relation there between the limits of the disciplines on the different, Kinds of concepts? Because

577
01:31:39.390 --> 01:31:40.440
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: a.

578
01:31:40.630 --> 01:32:07.609
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: when we talk about this kind of aesthetic, scientific, a perspective about the social, and and, for example, the concept of society, or even the concept of community, or a describing the past of modern society or the possible future, there was like an object

579
01:32:07.840 --> 01:32:13.870
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: that it was tried to conceptualize in a very

580
01:32:14.360 --> 01:32:17.950
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: or at least stable

581
01:32:18.070 --> 01:32:20.670
de Marinis & Bialakowsky:  terminology.

582
01:32:21.020 --> 01:32:49.260
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: However, that that's the problem. With this the transformations of the the same concepts can put them in crisis, and putting us is their own stability. And Organis City, as it happened, with the concept of society, which was very supposedly stable and refer to some kind of

583
01:32:49.330 --> 01:33:02.060
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: a stable society or stable order, or try to stabilize an order. But in the past decade, There there was like an a A

584
01:33:02.260 --> 01:33:07.539
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and that that I think that's the first, Aspect of the question.

585
01:33:07.920 --> 01:33:09.110
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: And

586
01:33:09.550 --> 01:33:17.509
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: but it's it's true that there is kind of this is stabilization

587
01:33:17.750 --> 01:33:28.809
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: happen in some periods. And and we try in the conclusion, maybe a we, we understand that

588
01:33:29.530 --> 01:33:36.120
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: you need some kind of complex images for the social to produce, some

589
01:33:37.580 --> 01:33:46.150
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: stabilize imash of the social. That was the the this. again, we propose about a

590
01:33:47.560 --> 01:33:55.810
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: the concept of a mass society or societal community. Oh, so

591
01:33:55.960 --> 01:34:04.400
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: that that was like a a 2 concept that in the first case was supposed.

592
01:34:04.400 --> 01:34:31.279
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and and it was like community of society, or even society and masses. They were an a and very organic or a stabilized concept, and the other one was the open side. They came together in one. So that that's interesting to understand the transformations between the concepts and the society will come. They are, or the social.

593
01:34:31.400 --> 01:34:37.289
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: But the the disciplines are there in very different aspects.

594
01:34:37.300 --> 01:34:40.010
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and I'm thinking

595
01:34:40.110 --> 01:35:02.879
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: it's not the same the way he, ramos me here. You see psychiatry or understanding the masses in Argentina that the way parcels uses the concept of the South in Freud, and there are 2 uses of different disciplines, but absorbing it in a social system, or staying in this.

596
01:35:03.070 --> 01:35:08.019
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Elusive space of the social psychology?

597
01:35:10.720 --> 01:35:12.450
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Okay.

598
01:35:12.710 --> 01:35:13.560
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: well.

599
01:35:15.290 --> 01:35:16.200
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: thank you.

600
01:35:22.920 --> 01:35:33.820
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Okay. There seem to be no questions from the audience, so we could just do another round of questions among us here. If there are any more.

601
01:35:36.700 --> 01:35:46.189
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: we have some question from the floor or for the okay, perfect.

602
01:35:46.410 --> 01:35:49.989
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: So yes, I have some questions.

603
01:35:50.220 --> 01:35:57.299
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and for the presentation I already said that I really enjoyed them.

604
01:35:58.730 --> 01:36:03.240
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I for first for

605
01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:07.060
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I'm for me.

606
01:36:07.630 --> 01:36:08.780
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: and

607
01:36:09.470 --> 01:36:20.090
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: you you, you said, like, in terms of this relationship between the descriptive and the Norma team aspect.

608
01:36:20.160 --> 01:36:28.800
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I do. How do you think that relies to the problem of the masses, because there is some kind of

609
01:36:28.930 --> 01:36:31.050
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: a a normative

610
01:36:32.480 --> 01:36:40.349
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: strong by us, at least. We said that in our presentation that a in terms of

611
01:36:40.460 --> 01:36:46.239
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: the masses as a problem to do something with that and

612
01:36:46.590 --> 01:37:00.200
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: which is the way you think it. It's related, this descriptive and normative out, which is the relationship between the elusive and the stable. Condition of

613
01:37:00.410 --> 01:37:01.350
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: yeah

614
01:37:02.450 --> 01:37:03.500
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: yeah

615
01:37:03.590 --> 01:37:06.969
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: of the concept. That's my my first question.

616
01:37:07.090 --> 01:37:08.190
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: And

617
01:37:08.250 --> 01:37:14.709
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: they I have a question also, for now now

618
01:37:14.890 --> 01:37:23.260
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: which I I I I found very interesting. When you a

619
01:37:25.140 --> 01:37:45.620
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: deploy this idea of a kind of I I don't know exactly. You are thinking of like intersection between culture and nature. For example, in this part of migration you describe what that was analyzed in Australia. So

620
01:37:46.180 --> 01:37:47.280
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I

621
01:37:47.630 --> 01:38:05.200
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: I I want. If you can expand a little more. How do you think that, That that intersection? Because in that moment that it's like people living there in an environment and working there. And okay, like.

622
01:38:05.820 --> 01:38:18.570
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: And I think in a piece and culture, you're you're thinking, or maybe you run also. But what are you thinking in terms of more abstract or conceptual? They see intersection between

623
01:38:18.780 --> 01:38:19.490
yeah.

624
01:38:19.750 --> 01:38:22.840
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: this culture and also for

625
01:38:22.850 --> 01:38:24.329
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: or she net?

626
01:38:25.170 --> 01:38:35.520
de Marinis & Bialakowsky:  well, I really enjoy this actualization of the concept of the for today was great and

627
01:38:36.830 --> 01:38:42.159
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: But you you think we kind of this

628
01:38:42.310 --> 01:39:00.749
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: a well elusive and multimedia dimension of of of charisma. But it it's it's very interesting. You you post this proposed of the management culture of the likelihood, charisma's skill, or a learning

629
01:39:00.790 --> 01:39:04.650
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: you. But you think

630
01:39:04.850 --> 01:39:12.440
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: should transform in some way the concept of charisma for our times.

631
01:39:12.630 --> 01:39:18.060
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: We have this big, obviously Bavarian tradition.

632
01:39:18.090 --> 01:39:24.220
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: And if you think for today in this new condition in your pock. you have to

633
01:39:25.670 --> 01:39:29.450
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: to do something with that.

634
01:39:31.030 --> 01:39:32.099
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: Thank you very much.

635
01:39:35.650 --> 01:39:38.290
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Okay. So we have questions

636
01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:52.289
Fabio Braun Carrasco: for a Kenya and fed me for now, okay, and for Gina. And I think he wants to post another question. And then maybe we can get to the answers, because technically, we only have 10 min left.

637
01:39:52.470 --> 01:39:56.740
Fabio Braun Carrasco: So maybe it will hang up close to your question. And then maybe, if we can.

638
01:39:57.070 --> 01:39:59.920
Fabio Braun Carrasco: no, are you sure? Okay.

639
01:40:02.400 --> 01:40:22.689
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Only if there is extra time which I don't think. So.

640
01:40:23.630 --> 01:40:24.700
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Okay.

641
01:40:25.260 --> 01:40:31.459
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: okay. Well, thank you. Thanks for the questions and the comments.

642
01:40:31.600 --> 01:40:43.940
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: And Paulo. And well, I think that the the question about the relation between the descriptive and the normative register in in this 3 out there.

643
01:40:44.310 --> 01:41:04.240
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: when they talk about the masses. It's a very interesting question, because it refers, at least, I I think, to this relations between the descriptive and the normative in the Marxist tradition and the approach of the Mars is a tradition to the masses, and and I think that in that in

644
01:41:04.240 --> 01:41:20.229
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: that tradition the descriptive and the normative register of the masses are a intimately related, because, the the usually the the Marxist outdoors,

645
01:41:20.230 --> 01:41:37.560
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: Have a a use, The masses to this describe the the I mean the the popular masses, the the people, and the the the the proletariat. at the same time. And this, For this,

646
01:41:37.560 --> 01:41:59.390
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: These masses have a very a important role in history for for this tradition. So That's a very a close. There's a very close link between those a registers, and I think you can't a thing in one of those registers without thinking in, in, in the other.

647
01:41:59.390 --> 01:42:25.359
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz:  If the masses are, if they, the masses in in these outdoors are an elusive or a stable concept. Well, I think that a that depends on the moment of the argument that you analyze, because if for when, maybe when they use a descriptive register, you can, you can see

648
01:42:25.940 --> 01:42:44.020
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: and a stable approach to to that phenomenon. And then, when you a think about the the the Normative register on the moment a. A. When the masses come to a political subject, they that's more elusive and complicated.

649
01:42:44.330 --> 01:42:47.200
E. Fraga y F. Alvarez Ruiz: I don't know if Kenya wants to. Okay.

650
01:42:54.470 --> 01:42:56.429
Fabio Braun Carrasco: Yes. Then. Now, okay, please.

651
01:42:57.670 --> 01:43:09.480
Naoki Iso: Sorry. I didn't understand the question for me. Well, so so can you repeat a question, please? Okay, okay. Sorry.

652
01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:10.790
Gina Zabludovsky: And

653
01:43:12.580 --> 01:43:30.509
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: yes. My, my question it. It was more a, a. A request. If you can, a explain more. And how do you think the relationship between culture and nature

654
01:43:30.740 --> 01:43:55.199
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: could be understand in a contemporary socio or she entrepreneurship? Now, now, because you you explained it great as, and also by, you criticize and Latour theory. But if you can't spend a little more that it was in your conclusions, but it was interesting to know that it was also

655
01:43:55.920 --> 01:44:10.319
Naoki Iso: okay. Thank you. I understand. So in contemporary society, I think we can take an example for ice. you can. The example of one. I C to, ICT technology. For example, you use the Internet.

656
01:44:10.370 --> 01:44:15.849
Naoki Iso: So we have a meeting with right? It's like in the Us. All of the block. So

657
01:44:15.870 --> 01:44:19.839
Naoki Iso: so it it's impossible for them in 10 years ago. It's like impossible.

658
01:44:20.040 --> 01:44:24.199
Naoki Iso: And so it is also a nature. Take on all this kind of nature.

659
01:44:24.230 --> 01:44:45.180
Naoki Iso: And so technology is recorded on human thing. But technology connects human in human. And so it's a human and human and no human relationship. So I so I think, it's also that question of so ICT, technology is is an example of relationship is human and not human.

660
01:44:45.500 --> 01:44:50.690
Naoki Iso: And also, I think about the climate change.

661
01:44:51.000 --> 01:44:54.179
Naoki Iso: So climate change, is

662
01:44:54.380 --> 01:45:02.389
Naoki Iso: because of like human beings. So we have a calls that climate change. But climate change.

663
01:45:02.600 --> 01:45:20.030
Naoki Iso: if it's us human beings. But it's not the reactions between calls and effect. It's like it's it's very closely connected like climate climate. They hear me. It's like, it's, it's it's between calls and effect. But

664
01:45:20.209 --> 01:45:21.949
Naoki Iso: I to my to network.

665
01:45:22.090 --> 01:45:25.680
Naoki Iso: Or here my, no human relationship. So

666
01:45:25.750 --> 01:45:32.309
Naoki Iso: yeah, but I, yeah, I I I I think I think about this to to example now. So

667
01:45:33.360 --> 01:45:34.040
Naoki Iso: yep.

668
01:45:34.650 --> 01:45:45.269
Naoki Iso: But to to describe the phenomena, it's it's complicated. So yeah, I can show you the extent on subject of example. But yep.

669
01:45:46.240 --> 01:45:47.570
de Marinis & Bialakowsky: thank you very much

670
01:45:51.180 --> 01:45:51.959
Gina Zabludovsky: for me.

671
01:45:54.219 --> 01:45:59.690
Gina Zabludovsky: Yes, yes, exactly. Yes. Okay, thank you for your question. What? I think that

672
01:45:59.900 --> 01:46:26.579
Gina Zabludovsky: a charisma is transforming the. So as a sociologic, I concept because we societ has been transformed. I mean when we ever wrote about charisma, there were no television, no radio, really charismatically, there was one who who was standing with a group of people. So you have to change. Bever was very clear about it. I mean, they dig

673
01:46:26.580 --> 01:46:31.680
Gina Zabludovsky: concept as ideal types change in relation to history.

674
01:46:31.690 --> 01:46:50.949
Gina Zabludovsky: So if history is changing, you have to change your concept. So it's not the same concept, the charisma when they so I think that at least care is much should be. We sociological carries mesh will be related somehow to communication issues.

675
01:46:51.930 --> 01:47:17.629
Gina Zabludovsky: I don't know how it it's very important. If you learn to communicate in the masses in the media. I mean, it's not the same charisma. And there are other sociological, Speciality, so sociological things that are gaining, that that that are more important than now that they were before, like sociology of emotions.

676
01:47:17.670 --> 01:47:40.919
Gina Zabludovsky: No, this is it. Some years ago sociology of the motion or sociology of the body was not a key screen sociology. It was division more of a rational society. No. Now we have facilitated emotions as a very important field, a sociology of the body as a very important thing. So

677
01:47:40.920 --> 01:48:10.319
Gina Zabludovsky: those specialities of sociology has to do with encouragement because there is not has to do with how you present your body while you are speaking, how you the the the problem of the motion. But of course, all the concept that changing, including bureaucracy, that it's more like a stale of concept. It's not the same, the same bureaucracy when you have, like a very structured position.

678
01:48:11.110 --> 01:48:17.489
Gina Zabludovsky: And for now you have, like we saw it in the pandemic. It was a world. Now we have, like

679
01:48:17.799 --> 01:48:39.820
Gina Zabludovsky: a recent, that people who are working in different fields, and they work. I work in one company or in one part of the of the government, and you know the people who knows more could be more important than the people who seen the charge in the in the most important possible. So all the concepts are changing, but especially charisma.

680
01:48:40.300 --> 01:48:42.649
Gina Zabludovsky: because a

681
01:48:45.300 --> 01:48:52.619
Gina Zabludovsky: charisma now and our times, it's not the same as we that without may may be the

682
01:48:57.870 --> 01:49:07.929
Fabio Braun Carrasco: okay. Thank you all. I think. Unfortunately, we're running out of time. Thank you all very much for your great presentations. Right? So this interesting discussion round

683
01:49:08.300 --> 01:49:19.500
Fabio Braun Carrasco: and yes, thanks thanks for being here here, thanks to Isa for having us and to giving us this, the space to share. And yeah.

684
01:49:19.840 --> 01:49:24.849
Fabio Braun Carrasco: be in in conversation. so, yeah, thank you all very much.

685
01:49:24.980 --> 01:49:27.000
Naoki Iso: Thank you.