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Isil Erdinc: thanks. I've also good morning. As I'm saying. Good morning. I don't know what time it is in Australia, but here, So in Brussels it's a half past 9. So good morning. Yeah. And thanks for coming to our, to our panel understanding of of of crisis health risks and labor conflicts.

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Isil Erdinc: so I'm so I'm so I'm a associate professor in in the in Brussels, and my colleague. Hello, everybody So what I am. My d. Assist, you get around 50 I. A. P. HD, a student at the free University of Brussels.

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Isil Erdinc: So we organize this panel in order to to analyze the the care work in a, in a labor perspective, in order to understand the the labor conflicts. And what are the consequences of these labor conflicts on care work. And how is the Co structure and the the the the characteristics of care work, influence also the conflicts and the how it's the restructures, labor, confidence and and labor organization. So

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Isil Erdinc: so sorry for not being able to come to to Australia. so I hope that we we could see each other again, that the it's another conference, maybe on the Esa for a more in the the the the other the is the next the word Congress?

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Isil Erdinc: So we have 4 speakers this morning. Yeah. So this day, I say, I I stop saying this morning, I know this not far more than get for everyone. So we have 4 speakers today. we have a 2 speakers who will be a who are all already in Australia. So thanks for being there and representing our panel in Australia.

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Isil Erdinc: So we have. We will be presenting on, on, on, care, workers in.

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Isil Erdinc: and we will then, pass to to step in and guard the who will be presenting all social work, for in the case of France.

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Isil Erdinc: and we have also. We will also have Isabella group R on the who is in in Canada, and we'll be presenting on on care workers in Canada, and we lost. We have a Sven Stevenson, who will be presenting on care workers in Sweden. So this the the aim of this office panel was to to have a comparative perspective on different case case studies on different countries.

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Isil Erdinc: And there are lots of cases that are lots of big projects. So who? Who? Who? The resource project projects based on different countries, especially after the pandemic context, but that we thought that it could be interesting to to see the in in a compar to perspective these these evolutions. And and the idea, of course, if everyone accepts, it's just maybe to to to to also see if we can publish together in a comparative perspective on share work. And they were conflicts.

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Isil Erdinc: So I'll stop talking and I'll leave the floor to to canoe for her presentation.

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I?

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Okay, so Hello, everyone my name is Kano Priya, and I'm a Phd research candidate at Iad Khanpur, India. So I'm a sociologist. And this is a work in progress. And part of my Phd research work. And

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so my work is on the impact of COVID-19 pandemic on home care workers for older people. And it's a study of New Delhi, India.

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Okay? So I cannot change my

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so just giving a little background of Indian scenario. So India has a huge problem of

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taking care of special development, taking care of the older people. It has a huge population to take care of. It's elderly population, but in recent times what we've seen is that the with the neoliberal reforms in India. There is a growing market for profit companies in India. So big multinational Nationals are kind of investing a lot in in the Indian scenes.

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you know, and they see it as one of the silver economies.

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So the home health care market is projected to grow at around 19 by 2,025. It has a huge potential, as I mentioned before, and so these companies are not exclusively catering to the care needs of the order people, and they have different segments.

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They are into nursing. I see you set up at Homes, and elder care is also one of the second, but it is one of the biggest segments and profit making segment for these home care companies. So almost 60 to 80% of the demand for home care has been driven by senior citizens who are seeking supportive long term care at home and these are basically these companies are based in big metropolitan cities and not in rural India.

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So with the outbreak of pandemic we can see that the home Health Care Service segment witnessed a significant growth, with almost 50% increase in enrollment of various kinds of care plans in the Indian politics and not just in India all over the world. I think this was one of the as per my research, one of the only sectors which constantly was making profit.

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So while the issues and challenges concerning frontline workers like nurses and doctors and others were being discussed.

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it becomes important to understand the experience of home care. Give us the workers, you know, and with limited empirical data available. I kind of try to understand the workers perspective as well. So my research question was, what strategies and mechanisms were used by the homecare companies to organize care work during pandemic. And what was its impact on the care workers.

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we all know, just giving a little background of home care work, especially in the context of India. These companies are catering to the personal and healthcare needs of the

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people. The people at their homes. And the work basically includes activities of daily living, health care, personal care and nutrition and other kinds of support services. Now, I used the concept of care extractivism. This is one of the concept which has been profounded by Krista Vitri. And she talks about how how she focuses on these strategies and mechanisms which kind of leads to lower social and financial valuation of care work.

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And these strategies, these care extractivism. Strategies are suited to cope with crisis situations especially care crisis without financially burdening the governments and the companies.

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So the theoretical assumption is based on the idea that the rationale of market and care is fundamentally different from each other. Wide market it depends on, you know, aggressive profit. Maximization care is about catering to the needs of people and the whole idea and concept of emotional labor.

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So 2 important features of care extractivism are she talks about professionalization standardization processes which are being used by these companies specifically in the care sector and how the workers are. The care work has been fragmented, just like industrial piece work, and which eventually leads to a formation of chief entrepreneurs of care

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workers. And then another important feature is the transnational accumulation regimes and formation of global care. She she talks about how the migrant workers kind of are feeling in that care deficit over Care gap from and moving on from less developed countries to to develop countries, to cater to the needs of the older people.

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so these extractivist policies basically lie at the axis of social inequalities, where she kind of takes an intersectional approach. Try and understand the realities of caste, the race, the migrant status, all of these together is being used to create a pool of flexible and cheap reproductive labor force, and which eventually becomes a source of profit making in the care markets.

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So I kind of have used this beyond the concept of care extractivism beyond the labor process theory, because a labor process has its own kind of limitations. And it, it has. It focuses more on the immateriality control and resistance and worker agency, but not really takes an inter kind of intersectional lens to understand the issue.

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So my research took place in New Delhi. The reason for selecting the place was because it is one of the biggest metropolitan cities. It's a startup hub for these home care companies, and there is a huge demand for senior care, and there is availability of

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migrant label. So in the interviews were conducted, the caregivers were contacted through skill, training institutes and bureau. Now, what's interesting is that the companies kind of completely denied any sort of access to these workers, so it was very difficult finding them during the pandemic. But there were other kind of ways and means which were adopted to

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contact these care because in the interview 63 caregivers in total were interviewed.

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So these are the overview of my findings. I talk about the reserve army of labor, skill, the skilled migrant care workers rising in formalization and contractualization within care about the intensification of work and reverse migration. So if I show you the socioeconomic profile of the care workers over interview, you will see what is very interesting is that, unlike other countries, the age group is 19 to 25. It's a very young kind of a cohort which is into care services. 81%.

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Now, majority of them are skilled, trained in Gds Jen as general duty, attendance, or home health aids. I'll talk about this in some time. So if we look at the gender proportion. Females are lesser, unlike what we see in other countries compared to men. So there are more men. in caregiving compared to women. There are various reasons behind it. Maybe I might not be able to talk about those today.

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if you look at the cast from position so India has a different reality, which is very different from other countries, and we have different. The society is dividing into different cast categories, and the general cost which you see at the the end. is the They are socially kind of above all the other class categories. So we see a a wider representation of schedule costs schedule. Try and other backwards.

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Ask people in ken giving services I'll be discussing about it in some time, and if we look at the migration status of the workers, majority of the work assigned to 2% of migrants who come from rural to local media to work as caregivers.

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Now talking about the reserve army of label labor, skilled migrant care workers, we somewhere act as reserve army of labor for these companies. Now I would

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focus on a little bit about the the Government of India's recent program, the National Skill India Mission, which was launched by Prime Minister in 2,015. So these are supply side interventions in the labor market, where the government kind of provides free training

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to rural youth. and these are kind of placement link programs. So they get trained. And then they are hired by big companies in the Albany India. So the hiring requirement. If we look at the Company's hiring requirement, they do not spend any money on hiring, and they kind of prefer hiding the workers who are trained by the government training programs.

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Now, the major share of caregivers, if we see so, what is interesting is that majority of them are migrant majority. Most of them are coming from rural India. who are trained by the wind of India skill training program. And most of them come from backwardcast group categories and how you know it. It kind of shows the precariousness at all levels, and they are coming to New Delhi and to both Islam

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caregivers. Now, if the Government of India, the rescue India program somewhere kind of also strengthens the domestic care chain. So as I talk about 4 important states. Ukhtar Pradesh, we have. These are one of the poorest states in India, and these migrant workers are coming from these first States to, because there are a possibility of jobs in Northern India. They just care deficit in urban India and with skill training programs.

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we can see how this whole of domestic care chain has been strengthened.

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So during the COVID-19 pandemic, what we see is that there was willingness on the part of these workers to work for minimum wages for longer duty. As you know, they were generally hired for 12 h work, but they were working for 24 h duty services. There was readiness for for them to work for multiple shifts, and since they are migrant workers there was actions of any kind of social network, and there's no kind of discussion about connective bargaining.

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talking about rising and formalization and contractualization. I'm divided into 2 sections. We have 3 pandemic, and we are pandemic in the pre pandemic, you know. 20 of the workers were hired by these companies on payroll and the on demand. Workers were the majority of workers, which is 80%. So and the company said that as we read in literature as well that on demand workers get often, you know, more flexibility, vital choice, and higher earnings. So

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because if we look at the salary

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structure, what what's interesting is that the paid own workers are paid less than the on demand workers. The on demand workers are paid more, and I think this is one of the strategies by these companies, so that work with themselves. Kind of go for working as on on on demand categories and not as payroll workers. And if you look at hiding process. The payrolls were hired directly by the companies and the on demand workers were outsourced through vendors and contractors.

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But in the pandemic situation. What we see is that the line between the payroll and the on-demand worker kind of got blood.

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and the payroll workers were working like on demand they were. They had no social security. Benefits more and more hiring were taking place on on demand basis. The idea of choice was kind of turning into a myth for these workers, as you can see. as one of the caregivers says that the companies are mostly offering 24 are dut. Sometimes it remains a 12 h shift, but the companies are adding, Instead of arranging for cap services, ask

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us to stay at the clients home, post workshift, making it a 24, our duty without any hike in the beaches. So There is also a greater greater contractualization. The companies are not really hiding themselves

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and lower. So I call this phenomena externalization of accountability, where the companies are absolutely not accountable towards the work. That and this has also been shifted to, you know, some third party contractors. So during the Covid pandemic, there was my minimal guidance on safety kids, face masks, gloves. PP, so workers had to take care of everything on their own.

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The third one is the intensification of care work, so extensive range of care packages were offered by these companies to the clients. But this okay.

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but they stop. The companies stopped sharing written care packages with their careables and oral instructions began to be given to these workers. Which kind of destabilize the fragile line between Home care worker, domestic worker and nursing staff.

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And why do I say this? Because now the workers said that they were being asked to do the household chores. They were also working as nursing staff, where they were inserting Kenola Cathedral rise to the motivations for bedroom. So it was kind of a very tricky situation for these workers.

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And then we see reverse migration, because these caretakers kind of solely dependent on these companies, and it is the only source of income, with no travel allowance to reach workplace, no vehicle arrangements by these companies, no health protection, no financial support during the like lockdown and fewer duties coming their way, they have to go back

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to their villages, but there was always is a desire to return back to care. Work for these workers.

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as one of the caregivers says, forget about paying the rent. We did not even have money to buy food. Hunger would have killed me before Covid. The only option was to return back to my village.

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so in the contribution what I I I found is that the companies, in the name of achieving higher professionalization kind of rely on informal social institutions, especially in Indian context, on cast class and migrant status of workers, and the government schemes like scaling your mission has created a pool of migrant workers, and it guarantees an unhindered supply of labor force for these companies in large metropolitan areas with minimal bargaining power with these workers.

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so the new Liberal policy has kind of merged with informal social institutions to intensify care, extraction, and keep the workforce. So the companies resorted to as we discussed previous cost, cutting strategies to excel with the inequities and expand the care extension.

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Thank you so much.

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So we gave the questions.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you. Thank you, Kano, for this interesting representation and the like. This comparison between 3. And the and for post pandemic. Yeah. I don't know. I I propose it to be, maybe. if if there are really quick questions so to, can we can get to questions or we present each one presents our their people, and then we make it a a general discussion. What would you prefer?

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Yes.

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again. okay.

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we can keep it in the end. Maybe we can keep it in it. Yeah, yeah, it's it's better. Yes, okay, perfect.

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Isil Erdinc: Okay, so let's best to to sing in. So now we are, we will be all 9, so that it it is the. This is the rotates. it'll be time. So Svina, who is a post doctoral research again in Paris, and she'll be presenting the the French case. So so again, you have 15 min.

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Cyrine Gardes: Thank you. can you see? My, can you see my slides?

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Cyrine Gardes: Okay.

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Cyrine Gardes: so thank you very much. I am going to present a project I've conducted with 2 colleagues, Emily Dean and Joanne police, who are with me today just behind my screen. Maybe you will see them for the Q. And A. This project studies how the pandemic and more specifically remote work as increased labour competituality in the social sector.

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Cyrine Gardes: So the pandemic is now known as the moment of huge changes in daily life. I think everywhere. Here's another view of the main legal changes that have been put in place in France from 2,020 to 2,022, with free look downs several types of Cohes, and to finish the health path that regulated the access of many public spaces

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Cyrine Gardes: This new and unprecedented rules had an impact on professional activities as a lot of studies shut it. One on one of them was to split the workers into different ways of working on-site work for essential activities, work stages, and also remote work. that is considered as one of the biggest change in the workplace.

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Cyrine Gardes: With my colleagues we have the opportunity to study the effects of remote work in a sector where interaction with clients are seen as essential for workers. The social work was proposed is to help people in need. So how this scale work has been transformed 100 and

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Cyrine Gardes: and how this change as remote working increase label conflicts. You can see quick examples on the sites that I will develop during this, the presentation. interactions are limited, vulnerabilities are increasing. It makes care work difficult to accomplish, but at the same time the pandemic reinforced the sense of social usefulness.

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Cyrine Gardes: These changes generated label conflicts that we decided to understand in a wider scope, including conflicts with clients, conflicts with colleagues, and also conflict with your case. This changes and plus this multiform conflicts led to discontent. which has fooled a mobilization for better wedges in the social sector.

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Cyrine Gardes: So our presentation is a part of a research project focused on the legal experiences of low and justice during the pandemic of COVID-19 that we studied in 2,021. the presentation is based on 46 interviews conduct with a varied range of social workers, as you can see. social assistance. Your educators home helpers, psychologists

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Cyrine Gardes: in various organizations as Ngos, a community and public services as well as workers unions. the investigation focused on 2 French regions at the Paris region and Brittany.

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Cyrine Gardes: the ambivalence of social, remote work could be some sum up in a question which is attention, how to care from a distance, how to help people when you cannot meet them physically, for many professional, remote, social, remote work is impossible. As a of educator says, we cannot do educational work from a distance.

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Cyrine Gardes: One effect of social, remote work is to individualize the relations social workers have with our clients first, the assistance they provide is often based on group activities which are all cancelled because of the pandemic.

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Cyrine Gardes: Second, social workers can no longer find support in work collectives that are also very important to do the work.

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Cyrine Gardes: I will show an example in the next part.

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Cyrine Gardes: as it has been shown in other sectors, remote work and intensify work, activity, working activities with, for example, an extension of working a house. We have many examples of social, remote workers explaining that they spent housing house on the phone, trying to find solutions or to follow their clients. Their sense of social usefulness led to other work situations.

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Cyrine Gardes: It was also favored by the difficulties social workers experience to continue the work with the usual partners as institutions. Ngos also disrupted by the sudden implementation of remote work, it led to a tinkering of solutions for the clients which required much more work from them.

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Cyrine Gardes: Here's a quote for social workers saying how clients, 100% women, victim of domestic abuse or woman who needs our solidarity. We said we maintain the activity but differently. We worked from a distance, she and the lines that they never stopped the activity because the vulnerabilities increased a lot, and women, a lot of women, needed their help.

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Cyrine Gardes: So the pandemic gave to social workers the feeling that their interventions are essential for the society and its cohesion.

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Cyrine Gardes: but at the same time the zone of tension has expanded with multiple front lines, with your keys, colleagues, and clients. It contributed to the degradation of working conditions and and the discontent of the sector

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Cyrine Gardes: about your keys, first at conflicts, emerge of all the implementation of new rules, remote work, protection tools, vaccine, for example, social workers, a lack of equipment as phones computers. It led them to ask and sometimes fight to get what they need to work.

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Cyrine Gardes: And there were also discussions about what kind of activities were essential and how to continue from a distance, a management and employees views a differ a lot, as in the case of 2 psychologists at the parenting support facility in the Paris region.

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Cyrine Gardes: At first they were requested to stop their activity and had to fight to get the permission to switch on remote working. They used to have families and children and could not accept to stop to give them support, anticipating that the lockdown could bring relational problems in their families.

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Cyrine Gardes: Social work is also noted that their your keys became suspicious about their commitment to work from a distance as a your educator, working remotely said, I felt a pressure, a suspicion.

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Cyrine Gardes: It was. It was way worse than being on site. So some social workers felt over, controlled, and accused of not working enough. The, the, the conflict with colleagues

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Cyrine Gardes: and they proceeded from the split

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Cyrine Gardes: of work collectives fable by remote working, by breaking with the presence, telecommunicating complicates informal relations which make relations between colleagues more fluid. For example, a legal counselor in an information center for women's and family rights, says there is even a colleague I didn't see a for for a year. We suffer a lot from this with the colleagues.

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Cyrine Gardes: So here we see how the loss of professional sociability is painful for social workers.

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Cyrine Gardes: Relations with the clients seems to be also more conflictual Maintaining relations from a distance is a real work that implies new tasks, as we can see in a facility for them, dependent elderly people that we call ipad. In France a family visits were forbidden for a long time which made some residents more vulnerable.

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Cyrine Gardes: So it bad professionals had to organize long distance meetings with the families, but not without difficulties. An activity leader told us that she had to plan the meetings every week, make sure every resident had a meeting with his family, and manage the tensions with the families who wanted what we wanted to have news

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Cyrine Gardes: mit Ctl. And she has so She also had to organize the distribution of the tablets between the residents and stay with them during every meeting to help them using it. So it generated tensions with the residents, but also with the families. One.

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Cyrine Gardes: and when the first lockdown ended, face to face, activity started to be organized again, but very slowly. A lot of social services which were accessible without any conditions in the ordinary times, were organized with appointments in order to control the number of clients and respect quotas.

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Cyrine Gardes: This reduced the possibility of accessing those services for the people which made the relations more tense. the implementation of health protocols could give rise to tensions between the public and professional as wearing masks respecting distances so face to face interactions remade control for a very long time with tensions about the rules to respect.

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Cyrine Gardes: To finish with this overview of labor conflicts in social work, we can mention the moral dilemmas that emerge at work at first. tele work is may feel devalued because their work is not considered as essential.

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Cyrine Gardes: the 2 psychologists I already mentioned, recount the shock of having been placed on special leap of absence because they work was considered as not essential activity. So a special leave of absence is a procedure decided by the employer to leave employees at home.

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Cyrine Gardes: So in their eyes this, this categorization, they values their rule, which is nonetheless essential for a vulnerable people.

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Cyrine Gardes: Second, a teleworking brings typical situations into the home which can have a negative impact on loved ones. social worker said how difficult it was for their partners confined with them to hear the painful stories damaging from the phone, such as domestic violence or psychiatric problems

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Cyrine Gardes: the sudden eruption of professional activity into the domestic sphere could be a problem for every remote worker. But the case of social work is special. It is an highly feminized sector where employees often share their lives with men while far removed from care work because of their gender and their own job.

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Cyrine Gardes: We can also mention a feeling of helplessness for the social workers separated from their clients. As we already said, social work is based on face-to-face interaction, and their end was perceived as an obstacle. Social work is sometimes felt that they couldn't help people as they as they wished.

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Cyrine Gardes: We artificially presented those conflicts us in separated categories, but in fact, they were articulated. For example, the conflicts with the colleagues tend to weaken the work collectives and can affect the relations with the clients, so labor conflicts are generally embedded and work together.

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Cyrine Gardes:  so we've seen how social, how social work has been transformed.

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Cyrine Gardes: and what kind of labor conflicts emerge with remote work. The divisions operated by the employees and the States between who are essential. We're not. We'll work remotely. We're not work care workers. We're not. These divisions exacerbated. The conflictuality in this sector.

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Cyrine Gardes: This changes generated tension, as we can see with the mobilization that took place recently. So here are 2 pictures of the protest we to died.

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Cyrine Gardes: You can see that people are wearing mass because the COVID-19 is still here.

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Cyrine Gardes:  okay.

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Cyrine Gardes: okay. To tell the story very quickly.

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Cyrine Gardes: At the end of the first lockdown. In summer 2,020, the Government decided to give a pay raises to non medical staff in the hospitals and the centers for elderly people

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Cyrine Gardes: in order to recognize the work of those workers during the crisis with a pay raise of €183 per month.

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Cyrine Gardes: The choices operated between workers have been considered as very reductive and provoked big mobilization among social workers who claim for a wage race for all of them

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Cyrine Gardes: under the pressure the government had to extend twice the sc. Of the race. May May 2021. A new organizations are included as a centers for people with disabilities. In February 2,022, a new professionals, groups are integrated as educators and social assistance.

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Cyrine Gardes: The this, this this protest, was very original.

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Cyrine Gardes: considering its duration, 2 years and its regularity, 11 days of mobilization in a moment where restrictions we are still in place.

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Cyrine Gardes: It was also a transverse so mobilization social workers claiming that they were all essential workers deserving a race. So it is very interesting to note that, despite the deals, restrictions, traditional collective actions re at all, were employed as tracks. A big protest in the in the cities. Even if a social workers have a solid care ethic that can discourage them to stop the work.

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Cyrine Gardes: This is even more remarkable in an inflation context that particularly impacts small wages. Some workers decided to stop the work only for a few hours and go back to their workplaces after the protest, in order to lose less a salary.

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Cyrine Gardes: In addition, the specificity of the funding in the sector led to original audiences, particularly with employers who could consider that the race demand was legitimate.

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Cyrine Gardes: employers are facing hiring difficulties, and can agree with the fact that wages are too low to attract candidates. Indeed, stricters in the social sector are generally funded by the regions and the States, so the employers don't really control the amount of the budget. So we could fight employers associated with the workers, putting pressure together on the finances, transcending hierarchical frontiers.

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Cyrine Gardes: So, in conclusion.

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Cyrine Gardes: hmm.

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Cyrine Gardes: In conclusion, our research has adopted a broad definition

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Cyrine Gardes: of labor complex, including tensions between work and clients or colleagues. It has shown that remote work did not reduce conflicts in a single sector where remote work was unthinkable. Before that downs

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Cyrine Gardes: the country's social work is co presence work that requires face-to-face interaction.

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Cyrine Gardes: sudden, remote work as affected the very meaning of of social work, and led to different form of conflicts and discontent. Therefore the pandemic was a moments of restrictions for sure, but also a moment of tensions that could find a way to be expressed. The mobilization of social workers for their wedges in front is an illustration of it.

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Cyrine Gardes: Thank you for your attention.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you, Serena, and thank you for the perfect timing of 15 min. And so. Let's best to Isabella Rudolanda who is from University of Quebec in Montreal, and she will be explaining on the the the case of a care workers in in Canada.

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Isabelle Ruelland: Thank you very much. I will try to share my screen if you can. I'm trying to.

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Cyrine Gardes: I'm trying to.

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Cyrine Gardes: I can find. My

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Isil Erdinc: no, it's

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Cyrine Gardes: oh.

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Isil Erdinc: so now we are travelling to Canada. So, Isabel, it was 15 min. I leave you the floor.

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Isabelle Ruelland: Thank you very much, and thank you for not if I I'm too involved in my communication feel free to remind me the time I I really want to. I wish to respect it. So thank you. Everyone. So what? Now we're

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Isabelle Ruelland: going into a Canadian experience. Well, more in a Quebecers experience of a a big transformation that occur during the pandemic that we are documenting since 2,020. And it's about the role of citizen care workers. So we're talking about nonprofessional. I if we taking from a a public organization perspective.

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Isabelle Ruelland: what is a citizen practices? And Citizen Co, way on care work carrier practices is really activity carrying out by one or more people who do not play a professional role. And that's important and who have a personal knowledge and a direct experience of a daily event that occur in their community. So we're talking about neighbor of

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Isabelle Ruelland: Mit Ctl, and a little network of solidarity that emerge, of course, during the pandemic that public institution helped public institution in Quebec, but in really a a different one.

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Isabelle Ruelland: It it's a true in a lot of different country. I I study in Denmark, and it's the case also. But in Quebec what is singular, it's all the process of the change of Public Health Institution. Now, that I we are documenting and the transformation of we call it the proximity, or like outreach organization of work that change social work organization and all the your P. Of care worker. strategy.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So we will focus on that. So how? what? What is the question of our studies, how we can understand the pace of between citizen practices and the transformation of public organization with a view to reduce social inequality of power. So in the question that I wrote in my summary, and that is in the art of that research, it's to think.

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Isabelle Ruelland: what is that? A new industrialization of citizen practices that is different for pair, a peers worker, or like what we call a lot in in Canada, the patient partnership. It's really another, a third dimension of involvement, of nonprofessional worker that have a knowledge of community work. Can we talk about the democratization of public health

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organization? Or are we in a situation of reinforcing y European priorization of work?

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Isabelle Ruelland: That's the question in the center of that research.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So how to understand citizen practices that emerge. Of course, you have a lot of organizational initiative, because everything in in Quebec, for example, is into participation of citizen. You know, social innovation of local co-working experience. And it's even more with the pandemic. Or are we in a really like radical bottom up initiative that is pushing to transform a public health organization of services.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So to focus on those questions, we really dive into the citizen practices in Co. And how they are co-produced in the community of services and public organization transformation.

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Isabelle Ruelland: What you see in the picture. It's really the like, say, a sense of those citizen practices is to go and out in the outreach process outside to talk to people, sensibleize them to any public health issue. It starts with pandemic information. But after all the States want to. like.

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Isabelle Ruelland: put that gold wider and to involve themselves into mental health issue into every kind of services that can be useful for the vulnerable community.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So to go a little bit with the x 3 of the the the development of city, a citizen community out which work that is nonprofessional. Of course, during the pandemic there were a limitation of internalized help services in terms of

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Isabelle Ruelland: their ability to respond to the to respond to the needs of disadvantaged community in the context of pandemic and beyond

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Isabelle Ruelland: a slow public response to answer those issues. So a big conscience of the limitation of public action and and help system to respond to the needs in those excluded and multicultural community. So a citizen to start to be a bit more militant into the question of health and access to all services.

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A lot of different practices carry on. That's what we call citoyen or a citizen

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Isabelle Ruelland: connection. I've been significant in Quebec those practices widespread, of course, in the South and in like, for example, I study a bit in Brazil, but it's really common with the famous

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Isabelle Ruelland: eld community out agents. That is a lot documented in the like also the organization the World organization of out that document and push into the validation of those practices. But in the North it before the pandemic it was not that spread. So that's what we are trying to document.

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Isabelle Ruelland: Those practice are by and for citizens. So they're really a starting new network of solidarity initiative.

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Isabelle Ruelland: And that's what we try to study in a legit. Long. Sorry, longitudinal multiple case studies of covid doesn't have community outreach project on their and their transformation in Quebec. So we're still on doing it. And the goal of that research is to understand citizen practices in the Co. Production of community care in Montreal like, specifically, that's the biggest city in Quebec

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Isabelle Ruelland: to explore the impact on organization, local public health transformation. So we try to describe citizens practices, and to describe the cross-sector collaboration trajectory that for that is, beyond that, those practices and that sustain those practices. and to document the co-production of those practices that are involving every day in the way they are dealing with it.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So 3 case studies observation, documentary analysis, because there's a lot of of like some of these internal paper that are produced around those practices the the the welfare state in Quebec is so proud to involve those citizen in their a new way of organization, co-working, and, of course, integral into an interview and collective practices. Narrative laboratory. That is a methodology that we develop in our center.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So the analytical framework to go fast is really inspiring. A micro sociology and a cycle sociology of the care worker analysis inspire on a clue and livier

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Isabelle Ruelland: to focus really on the analysis of work activity it postulate a big gap between what is prescribed by the community and by institution. And what really occur in the day to day activity of work. So focusing on those interactional and informal way of dealing with the activity of citizen work.

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Isabelle Ruelland: We can see the relation with other, but also with itself. How it produce a a social, professional identification to the else system. How we change the employing trajectory, and also how we change the organization of work.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So to focus a bit on the territory on the the case. Study that we had it. The it's a really neighbor that for the more impacted by pandemic, really multicultural and the poorest neighborhood in Montreal that call Montreal north and and sick that's available to focus on. So the those one where the more impact by pandemic

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Isabelle Ruelland: also, what can justify the fact that there were more citizen practices that emerge in those neighborhoods is also, and it's important to emphasis the long established part

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Isabelle Ruelland: participatory. Sorry, my English dynamic that. Were there really before pandemic. So you have strong in France and in Europe you call it association, local community movement that were like platform and open space to facilitate the emergency the emergence of the creation and the co-creation of those citizen practices.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So going a bit with the result focusing on how the enter sectoral collaboration between those association and social, state and organization of of public health services we're working together to support.

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Isabelle Ruelland: to recognize and to facilitate the emergency, the emergence, not emergency, the creation and the development of the practices. So during the pandemic. But it's still continuing. Now you see that all those actor have a common goal to take care of the population of the Territory.

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Isabelle Ruelland: and there were a various Emergence, the emergency institutional support. So the State were giving money to those association. Punctual money, emergency money, philanthropical association also was involved. So it create all of a frame of resource to create those practices that is now institute on eyes and try to be permanent.

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Isabelle Ruelland: There were also a lot of realistic action. Oriented approach, like, for example, creation of new flexibility and spontaneous meeting space with, of course, Internet and Zoom Meeting, but also in the day to day. Walkie talk he going from one building to another way of dealing with

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Isabelle Ruelland: care, working strategy to really outreach the more vulnerable people. I share leadership. So citizen, that we're not professional were in those space taking decision, giving speech about how to organize it. Better. So it was really in a horizontal way of dealing with a decision based on their knowledge of community. And

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Isabelle Ruelland: what's his best for their neighborhood, for example.

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Isabelle Ruelland: the challenge of that frame of organization for care workers, citizen practices is of so if so, it is, of course, the sharing resources, and I will focus on that question in my conclusion. if you take like, for example, the salary

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Isabelle Ruelland: because they were not, for they are still not professional. And really the emphasis is on their There's there's their forces because they are not professional, but they share a territory knowledge. We are not able, and it's better not to to give them salary. We we work on a civic engagement, so that's why they are good, and they make it

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mit Ctl. And difference in the work. So the resource sharing is, of course, an issue the emergency versus sustainability of the partnership that we're creating between Association and public We Welfare State is really fragile, even if it was there before 150

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Isabelle Ruelland: The little local experience in the community are the reach is still there. they are building new way of dealing with the, with the poverty and with the people, and they are still try to find their path to deal with those situation. That auction, a lot of more mental health problem, for example.

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Isabelle Ruelland: And of course, we can see transformation of social worker, and like the professional dealing with that issue of poverty and outreach intervention that turn themselves not into a relation with citizens anymore, but more and more into a coordinate teams

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Isabelle Ruelland: effort and intersectional coordination network way of dealing with their work and the social worker dimension. So it's creating, as I said in the beginning, a new kind of organization of outreach labor in the Co. In the care working.

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Isabelle Ruelland: I don't. Okay, yeah, I don't think I will have the time to read that. That that's that word of a citizen that tried to describe the singularity of is

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Isabelle Ruelland: is miti of citizen practices. according to himself, if I can resume, it's create a difference in a certain anonymity. He is more anonymous and spontaneous in his approach, and that can create a warmest relation between health institution, then, in that a professional can produce

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Isabelle Ruelland: so question about future the future or the development of citizen practice, and in public care services in in North country. Like I will. I I am documenting in Quebec. maybe I will go straight to the I don't know. I have the time for that if I have 2 min. But I I I really want to be sharp in the time. So what are the transformation of our of the organization of care services going on

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Isabelle Ruelland: mit Ctl, and of course, in the pandemic you have so seen, as I describe, a spontaneous response from the community at the start of the health crisis, a deployment of those citizen practice and an enense tutorialization, also forced by philanthropical money that just shows up and still is really present in those vulnerable community organization services, one

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Isabelle Ruelland: a creation and an institute institutionalization of nonprofessional care worker teams and that are still going on today.

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Isabelle Ruelland: And that distressed an inspiring recovery plan now involving mental health and also different other issue. In a psychosocial perspective.

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Isabelle Ruelland: the willingness of the State to perpetuate and expand those citizen practices is a fact. But it's also creating issue about the weakening and the precariousness of community local organization, association that are not receiving the money one

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Isabelle Ruelland: so just to finish with a question that we can. address in our discussion.

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Isabelle Ruelland: there's those the the working process documentation of that research raised. by the my study about practice community local help raise a question that we can discuss today is

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Isabelle Ruelland: is citizen practices and community out are are really becoming a new work activity that we can talk about

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Isabelle Ruelland: care working, even if they are not professional.

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Isabelle Ruelland: and that creates a lot of new tension between that, just to raise that question, create tension between professionalization of citizen practicing versus civic engagement. That was the first I mean the first start of all that organization in the community radical bottom up level.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So there's a tension in the tree circle that I show here between citizen voluntary work. That was an an illustration of that in the past that we were dividing in a way. And there's a lot of research and talking about that 150,

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Isabelle Ruelland: a paid worker, care worker and a civic engagement. So we're kind of confused now with those frontier that are being more and more connected.

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Isabelle Ruelland: Thank you very much. And there are some studies that not article, but, like you, report that the document each case studies that you can. I can

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Isabelle Ruelland: offered to people interested. Thank you very much.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you, Isabella, for this presentation. It was really interesting to to hear about the the case of Canada. And and and now we're very turning back to to Central Europe. so it's sewen as Swanson who will be presenting who's from a university of gala in Sweden? who will be presenting their research the collective research on the care workers in Sweden.

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Isil Erdinc: So as when you have 15 min to and a and we will. And it's a Virginia. This time we will make A is a a assigned when there is 2 min left.

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Yeah, all right, we'll show you. Yeah. And yeah, my name is Sam Samson. Now, I'm working at the University of V in in Sweden.

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and due to misfortune events during data collection, I did not get the data that I would have needed to

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do this study listed in the Book of Abstracts. So in the last minute I had

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change to to another study that we are working on.

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So I would present a study on temporary stuffing in burnout and economic insecurity among aged care workers in Sweden. And you see that the other bunch of people involved in this work, and how do I? Which

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plus?

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well, Due to processes of a marketization and the rationalization and public management, and so forth. We have seen a increase in temporary stuff, in aged care. In many countries, including Sweden

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in the the average proportion of temporary workers in the Swedish aged car. The sector is 25%, and this is 10 percentage points more than

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the general labor market in Sweden.

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and during the COVID-19 and the temporary, the high proportion of temporary stuff in Hc. Game recognition, and it was like 2 to 2 different views in in the public discourse, either, like temporary workers, were pictured as sort of lacking more. All they were working do, even though they were ill, and that sausage

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spread the infection. But, on the other hand, it was also recognized that this is a vulnerable category of workers.

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They are economic, insecure.

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and the the latter perspective has been highlighted in the postponement debate, and it's been argued that we perhaps need a new competence supply strategy for a sustainable work situation for the

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workers, and also to to have a like resilient H caring to face the next pandemic.

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and as as regards the the temporary workers, they are not entitled to any short term. paid tickle.

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and they are neither entitled to any government income guarantee as or other workers in Sweden.

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and so it is

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likely to, or it's reasonable to argue that they experience a high extent of economic insecurity.

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if we looked at research on temporary work in general in other sectors. we see results that they often report. High job demands

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little influence. The Eastern authority, quite low influence, and the low

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little little social support from co-workers.

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and the from the managers.

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and we also see that to be a temporary worker is often an involuntary choice. So the employment preference is for a traditional permanent post.

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and we will. There are also some, although debated, I should say, but there are research showing that temporary work is associated with stressfully related illnesses, such as burnout, which is that

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the the illness invokes here.

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if we focus on the work, environment in and occupational health, in aged care, in specific. We also have reports of high job demands and low implants and little social support.

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And in the Swedish context it's actually the

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care home care workers. They stand for the highest rates of long-term city in Sweden.

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and the course of this

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great extent of Sydney is stress-related illnesses, such as burnout.

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So to sum up, and we know that work. environment, exposures such as the job demands and the influence of work and social support are associated with

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stress related in this.

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and so is economic insecurity that is also driving A stress-related illnesses.

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And we know the temporary work

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are often associated with express related illnesses.

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So what we wanted to do was to see if if it could be the the temporary work

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arrangement that is, behind the high extent of the restorative illness in Swedish aged care. and we focused on burnout as

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so. The research questions that I would like

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will try to to answer is that to what extent are burnout associated with type of employment, contract and work environment exposures among ag care workers in Sweden

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and by work, environment exposure. I'm referring to

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demands influence and social support and research. Question 2, then, is that to what extent are these associations modified by economic insecurity?

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the method of this study. This is a cross-sectional study design. It's a quantitative study. We sent a questionnaire to all 0 h contract that is temporary on call workers and the the permanent workers in a Swedish municipality with about 100,000 inhabitants.

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The questioner to the temporary start was sent out in October to December 2,022, and the questioner to the

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time and stuff

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is actually ongoing. We will close it first of July.

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I know the response rate for the temporary ones. That was 25, which is kind of low. But this is a population that is really hard to reach. So we're we. We can live with that. And so we got 175 temporary workers. And by the time I downloaded the data that was available like 3 weeks ago, when I did the analysis for this presentation, and that was 442 regular workers.

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we measured job demands in France at work, support and burn out with the questions from the Copenhagen psychosocial question near the the third version of that.

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And I've been carrying out the ordinary least squares regressions. So nothing. Fancy. This is like preliminary analysis. I will show you.

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and

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one variable that is in key focus is the the matter of like the bullet harness like if it's a bull and hard choice to be a temporary worker, or if it's

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and something

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like a position taken in lack of other options, and we measure this with the with one question, stating that I would rather have a permanent position than working as a temporary substitute, and we collapsed

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the 2 highest and the 2 lowest

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response options to to create categories of involuntary versus voluntary

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and the the mid option a start like

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so response

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option, 3 as a uncertain category.

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and that creates in total, 4 categories of workers. And I have class. I have categorized the descriptive statistics by these 4 categories. So we have the voluntary, as we call them, temporary workers, those who are uncertain and those who are inwardly. And then we have department staff.

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and

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since

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erez agmoni. Since we are interested in exposure to the work environment, we, I would argue that it's crucial to take into account the actual extent that people are exposed to to work. So we have 150

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included employment rate in the analysis, and, as you can see, most of the temporary workers are not working full time, whereas the opposite is the case for the pyramid stuff.

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and by these descriptive statistics we really do not see any big differences in in the work environment exposures other than that. The permanence of

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report, a bit more job demands. And that's slightly less influence at work. And

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yeah, a bit more support from colleagues. Actually, if you are well, they answered the most. This was kind of surprising to me. so I I had a hard time. Get this, that and the requirement stuff seems to be experience like the worst. But anyway, that is that is what we got here in the data.

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And as regards to the outcome, variable, we see that it also the farming stuff reports the highest extent in par, not

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I. I 2 different regression models. And if we look at the first one I have listed, the

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yeah, the significant associations are at least involved in point. So if you look at them. We see that, like expected from previous research, the work environment exposures are

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associated with burnout like more job demands, are giving more burnout, less influence at work, less burnout, and having

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support from your colleagues, where it is associated with less burnout, and that the effect size is the biggest one of the of the work. Environment exposures

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the biggest

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coefficient at 6.23 that is actually for financial insecurity. So, being financially insecure, that is associated with burnout to the other

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large extent. and if we then turn to model 2, we see that if we take financial insecurity times.

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the employment preferences or employment categories, that being financially secure and at the same time voluntary in being attempt

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that is actually negatively associated with burnout.

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whereas, being financially insecure and an involuntary worker. That is huge, coefficient. That that means that that is the category of workers that are experiencing, experiencing the most burnout.

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So, in conclusion, we couldn't see any overall differences in barn up between temporary workers and regular workers.

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But if we zoom in and to financial security into account for each category

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being financial, insecure, and a voluntary temporary worker

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equals less burnout and being financially insecure and an involuntary temporary worker equals more or not.

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And and yeah, I've been having some.

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And like it's been. And we're trying to understand these results in a meaningful way. So I took a look at who these

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bull and Harry. Temporary workers actually were as I think they.

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It's kind of people that are might explain these results. And they are actually mostly students.

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So the the voluntary ones. They are not really dependent on this job for securing their like livelihood. This is like it is something they do in the passing they would do, they would have an other profession a few years times. So it's those who are involuntary, those those are the one who has this as their main application.

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and Who are also dependent on it for like putting food on the table. And I think that could explain the result.

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And students are normally excluded from labor market statistics. So so we've been debate things that what we would do with this category should we exclude them, which I think will be wrong, because it's a large group of workers, and they are working in this organization. So we can't pretend they don't exist. But anyway.

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and also I took a check on how the distribution of financially secure involuntary temporary workers looked as

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compared to financially insecure. Because that puzzled me. I thought that there can't be like you can't be involuntary, and at the same time stating that you are financially secure. But

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that was actually a sort of 50 50, and that was

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50 50 among the all the core of categories in in the study.

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So,

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yeah, that was what I had for now I could say that in the future, we will be able to link

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the questionnaire responses to Swedish registry data. So we can actually see their taxated income. Of both of them, the individual persons and their

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partners. since we don't have like, we have individual taxation, so we don't have household income. So then we can fine tune in the analysis of financial insecurity. But this is what the analysts show for. Now.

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thank you for for listening.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you. Thank you so much

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Isil Erdinc: for the for the, for the paper, and for the for the perfect timing again.

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Isil Erdinc: So now we can maybe give the floor for the general discussion and for questions and for remarks and comments we have all almost 40 min

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Isil Erdinc: of discussion. So

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we can invite to the presenter here. Maybe. Yes, maybe it could be practical, so canoe, and as when maybe they could, you know.

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Yes, yes.

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Isil Erdinc: So let's let's take some questions for for for for canoes again, Isabel and and Savannah.

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Isil Erdinc: Oh, yes, it has a question this part with you. Yes.

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Klaus Schmierl: okay. First of all, I have a question to.

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Klaus Schmierl: and if I'm remembering right, she had a table that in India, about 60% of the people who are in care work are male. And and that's very unique, I think. if I think of Germany, and I would say Middle Europe like France and serene, may may add to to it.

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Klaus Schmierl: I think it should be 95 should be male, female, and as in Germany, most many of them are from Eastern Europe, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, and so on. Migrant workers.

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Klaus Schmierl: may. Maybe she has an explanation. It does it lay on the cost system, or is it a response? On, on the, on a family structure on on the distance between urban areas and rural areas. I I maybe she has an explanation. I have a second question to to serene. do you have?

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Klaus Schmierl: Mainly M. French, people working in the sector, or or also migrants and do you have an idea how how pick the amount is. And I have one comment which is not a question, because it's it's not answerable.

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Klaus Schmierl: What would be interesting is to to ask the question do we have now? after the after the pandemic, a hybrid new equilibrium of new working contracts, work forms, work structures, working labor force and so on. But it's not answerable. It's not a question. It's only a comment for further research, and so on. Thank you very much.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you. I propose it. We get maybe a couple of questions before we get getting the answer. So if anyone has questions go ahead.

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Isil Erdinc: Oh, okay, go ahead.

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please. Would you please thank you so much for your your presentations. I do work on the altar chair in silence.

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and it's when you try to keep it between community care work.

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People who are not quite nurses but have certain hours, and it's considered a protected

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area. And then, at the same time we have huge numbers of migrant workers from domestic workers.

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so they might be undocumented or documented, and they're working in

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at the same time. So I'm wondering if you can talk about your only context

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in terms of labor organizing and the challenges across this kind of trafficated.

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Okay, we're organizing

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for a night's forwards. Thank you so much.

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Isil Erdinc: Did you hear the questions?

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Isil Erdinc: No, Is it possible, by the Virginia that you repeat it? At least the question, if I understood through rightly. But let's call this maybe more solid. If you repeat the question.

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Isil Erdinc: repeat the question of the person who

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oh, my, maybe we can. Yes, please. Could you please come, come to this stage is better. It's a and they will see you. They will see you also. I'm so embarrassed. No, no, no, okay, thank you for your questions. I mean, not your questions, your presentation. Can you hear me?

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Isil Erdinc: Yes, perfect. Yeah. So my question was, I work in the Thailand contents. We have, like a trafficated kind of care work situation with community healthcare workers. There are some time family members or non-family members of all villages. It's subsidized by the State.

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and then we have a protected category of not quite nurses, but almost nurses in elder care. So I'm just looking at elder care, and then domestic workers that are foreign domestic workers that are registered or unregistered.

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you know, undocumented, and they double up in elder can't work. So my question is, how in your different contents deal with the labor organizing across these different groups for solidarity, for workers, rights

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and protections. Thanks so much.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you. Thanks.

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Isil Erdinc: Maybe we can get to A and then get a second of questions. Yeah, this is, we can take all the questions. So so, Jen, could you please? Maybe you can. You can be here

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even if we can.

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I microphone.

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Okay, can you hear me? I I'm in the students from and I have a question for about remote work. And as you showed us you have, there's a lot of collective action. There's a lot of different companies you show. Could you tell us a little bit about? how is

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Jose is bargaining by, let's say for company agreements about remote work. how are the the roots are set up in the different context you describe, is it? discussions between unions and the employer, is it?

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Let's say, a discussion between a hierarchy and the employees. Is it, or are there other farms? And are there some forms of resistance to put these rules in the best

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one?

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you.

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If particular questions in the room.

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Isil Erdinc: Yes, here there is another.

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Maybe we can just after start the the answer. yes, my name is Chris Charlene. I'm a Phd. Candidate at the University of. I'm really colleague of Sven. and I post a question to spend, but it's open to to the other researchers as well. My interest is, is there any distinction in your result between public and private sector. If the employer is the municipality or

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a private camp provider. Thank you.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you. So let's get some answers so that you can at least, that each presenter could have time to to to answer. And then, if there are, we can say, get the second round of questions after that. Yes.

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Isil Erdinc: So who would like to start? We can start with, can do if you want. So the the the order of presentations to get the answers, if you want.

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we cannot hear that. Well, I didn't. Here, maybe you would. Yes, I finally sorry.

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Yeah. So as plus pointed out more male care workers compared to women. and if we look at other countries, of course we see feminization of care work the whole debate where more and more women are into care.

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So clause let me give you a little background of the Indian context. so we do not have any holistic country level data on the care workers. say, the other important reality is that also.

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if I add to the fourth question, which was like any distinction between public and black private sector worker. So there are no public sector workers. These are not community workers, or the government has not hired these workers they work for exclusively for corporate or the companies multinationals. The training is being provided by the Government of India, so due to limitation of research. I cannot like make a generalized idea about what's

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what the situation what is the the new medical proportion of male and female. But, as far as my study is concerned a very interesting observation is

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that if you look at the skill training program, so it is considered to be one of the soft skill work. So more and more women are opting for such scale training programs in rural India. But the drop out rate more than men. But but the retention rate of men is more than women. So the drop out to read for these women is more, and there are many reasons

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caste is not really it. It is a reality, because upper caste, male and female both, you know. similarly, they do not opt for care work it is considered to be, you know, the whole debate of priority and pollution and care work. Consider it to be a dirty work, you know, changing diaper for older people, so they do not they opt out of it. So if if we go to lure the social hierarchy. So both men and women of

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for such work they take training, but it is more of a women who are taking training, but they are dropping out more, and the reasons are It's very patriarchal set up in India, especially rural India. So the whole idea of a woman going to somebody else's house. It's it's not a normal workplace. It's a very different workplace that you have to go to the older person's house and work, and, etcetera.

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24 h judicial. So the women often highlighted that this it's a young cohort, but soon after they get married a few women, the husband or their families do not allow them to stay in this sector for long. So the this is one of the most important reasons. Behind higher drop outre amongst women. In this sector men can, of course, manage

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well, so they they kind of the retention. It is more and the kind of work condition kind of also. there are. So if we talk about sexual harassment, it is one of the important things which has not even been recognized or discussed. You know, when it comes to home, care, work, and no law. Nothing works in this thing. Women have reported higher incidents of you know.

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sexual harassment at their place. But there is nobody to listen to them. So yeah, so these are some of the reasons why women are dropping out more, but they are opting for such courses. But the drop out rate is like.

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Thank you.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you.

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Cyrine Gardes: So my turn.

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Cyrine Gardes:  thank you for the question. So well, about the first question, we well, social, the social workers, we we investigated our scaled workers.

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Cyrine Gardes: mostly French.

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Cyrine Gardes: we we didn't find a lot of people from the immigration do well, maybe to the the sector, and also the regents for example, in bridges we have less immigration than in the Paris region. So that that is why

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Cyrine Gardes: and thank you for your comments. I think it's very interesting to to think about how the pandemic maybe changes the label forces and level of relations.

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Cyrine Gardes: I don't have an answer by now, but I think it should be interesting to to study it in the long term.

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Cyrine Gardes: about how the solidarity is organized among those workers. in France we have, we? We have a lot of unions that try to organize the solidarity and the relations between those workers. We have the opportunity, for example, to meet 2 home helpers from a a union that who described us? How they they

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Cyrine Gardes: they tried to organize the group during the pandemic. about If if remote work is object of agreements

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Cyrine Gardes: labor agreements. Well, we focused The first look down, and during the first lockdown. It was mostly emergency remote working. So it was a way of working organized through informal relations and not really really agreed

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Cyrine Gardes: collectively. But then, in the second phase of the of the health crisis. Yes, they were labor agreements, and we observed it.

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Cyrine Gardes: and to finish about the distinction about a between sorry, a a public and private sector. Yes. So in France I feel like social work is organized. in free categories. You have the public sector, the private one, and you have you have also community services.

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Cyrine Gardes: And we, we saw that

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Cyrine Gardes: come in community services. The organization are bit different because they are small organization, with not a lot of employees. they are very dependent from public funding. So it is difficult in coming to services for the State to impact on wages and things like that, because they are

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Cyrine Gardes: independent organizations, but very dependent from public funding. So

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Cyrine Gardes: that is what I can say about the questions. I hope I answered it.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you. Yes. And there was a question for.

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yeah. I just

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in context. So the situation in Indians are a little different in the sense that 90% of the labor force in mainly contexts are in formal orders and the post. I think, nineties, we've seen that the trade unions have become kind of very fragmented.

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and we could in every possible manner.

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Now my work is on homecare work industry. It's a new with the industry. It's about in industry. It's just making 6 or 7,

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but then he has back that he does. He's kind of flourishing. But I think personally, that formula unionization in such a sector. I think there is a long way to go because of the condition within which these workers work. So majority of the workers. They told me that they don't even know about work for the companies. It's like they are on demand workers or independent contractors. We just

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see the service, and straight away they go to the Chinese place. So that is how they work something. They don't even know where the company offices are, so I think it will take kind of a lot of time so, and they don't even know about your organization. And

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and so the part one is like, as I answered, the moment is what I use as you, because it's just

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from the

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Yes, and as regards the question on public courses, private employees, this study is from a municipality

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where the municipality is the employer. So it's it's a public. It's only public workers. and there are not very many studies on

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private sector and home care workers in Sweden. In fact, I don't know

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but that might be due to that. Like, you know, 85% or something is publicly run in in the Swedish context.

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What we do know from from service. where we

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should not rely too much on the results from those service, because they are not very good. But there are some service surveys that has shown compared.

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They work environment for public versus private and the private one does generally, generally, report like worse work environment than the public. And we also know that

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 well, I should stop there. That is what we know. So but well. that's about it.

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Isil Erdinc: Thank you. So I think she'll be getting a second round for Christmas, because we have time.

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Isil Erdinc: You just a quick question.

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There, please.

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Isil Erdinc: So I have a question for Isabel. So, in fact, as as you said, that still today, these workers or did, these persons are not recognized as professional workers.

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Isil Erdinc: I think it will be important to note a little bit more about. Who are these workers which are which I? Which is the their profile? Or what is the professional situation? Actually.

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Isabelle Ruelland: yes, of course, I focus my presentation on on more the those network of intersectional collaboration. What is the frame that support the worker? But we know, really, we have a a statistic about who are they? And generally they are? As a it's common in North America. They are women. They are a woman with a an immigration trajectory in general.

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Isabelle Ruelland: But there are also people that are trying to make their way through a professional career in a care working position as a professional in social work and in in, in public health, that just have with that experience a social, professional first

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Isabelle Ruelland: contact that expose them to an experience that make a difference sometimes to get the training you to get a space in public health system. So it's like to to summarize. It's a really common perfume in care worker. And also it's sometime people that don't are interesting in those profession, but just want to make a difference in their community and our touch, and have a civic engagement.

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Isabelle Ruelland: And they are not concerned about understanding the welfare, state and the public else's organization in the in other perspective, then to help the neighbor and the reality that is getting, Being more and more vulnerable around them, especially with mental health issue.

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Isabelle Ruelland: So to give. And and about the age average. So it just to to go really fastly. I have notes for that. It's around it. I. They are people like around 40 years old. So they it. It's really some

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Isabelle Ruelland: And it's not young person that are trying to to get their way to those civic

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Isabelle Ruelland: civic engagement in, in, in, in, in the health system, in in Quebec, in those region that are more disinfected and vulnerable to answer, maybe about the private and public difference, because I think it it was to everyone. I think that after the pandemic you have is trying Quebec. You have a strong involvement in the philanthropic area, and it's starting to be an important actor mostly to

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Isabelle Ruelland: Support Association that are like the nonprofit Ngo organization, and that take more and more a place in public health in Quebec, and the precarity of the condition of those worker is higher in those association that it is in the public sector. So there is a big difference in the work condition between those 2 place.

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Isabelle Ruelland: Thank you very much.

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Isil Erdinc: If there are not any questions in the in the room. I would also ask you a question for 7, and for Isabella. So

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Isil Erdinc: the question for 7 is that the the point that you raised the about the students was really interesting, because, like, you see that you see that that you say that the students that define identified themselves as a being a volunteer vote like is being insecure, financially insecure, more precarious. But voluntarily.

401
01:30:05.700 --> 01:30:27.349
Isil Erdinc: what? How did we define volunteering? Because there are lots of students who have who have to work, who who are obliged to work in order to finance? Maybe their their studies, or in order to just feed themselves, or pay their pay their fees for the universities, or for the for the for their studies.

402
01:30:27.350 --> 01:30:37.949
Isil Erdinc: So why do students Why are the students not not expressed about all these constraints? but they feel like they. They don't get burned out. And the

403
01:30:37.950 --> 01:30:42.660
Isil Erdinc: and this this is what my, my question for you and the for Isabella

404
01:30:42.660 --> 01:30:59.769
Isil Erdinc: like some more philosophical question, maybe on the maybe like broader subject. But Since you, you're talking about this the civic engagement and the paid work, and see citizens as volunteer. But does this in this case

405
01:30:59.830 --> 01:31:12.390
Isil Erdinc: legitimize. the States. not non responsibility. about this, all the social care and social responsibilities and socially rights that, like

406
01:31:12.390 --> 01:31:34.720
Isil Erdinc: the the welfare States crisis legitimize this whole a non-paid and volunteer citizen worker and like in the end exploiting maybe the the non-paid and the and labor saying that it's good to to engage the citizens. So people themselves feel themselves satisfied with their service.

407
01:31:35.030 --> 01:31:44.510
Isil Erdinc: it is the State who has to do all this stuff. So does this like, is this legitimateization system? impacts this engagement civic engagement.

408
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Isil Erdinc: So thank you exam for the presentation of all.

409
01:31:48.490 --> 01:31:56.710
Hmm, yeah, I can start Well, in Sweden you get

410
01:31:57.070 --> 01:32:15.659
there is like, like, university education is free. So there is no feast to pay, and also to get a very beneficiary alone from the State. So and really like.

411
01:32:15.740 --> 01:32:17.539
if even if you

412
01:32:17.710 --> 01:32:37.749
it, even if you come from a family with no previous background in in higher education. You can go there and you get. and a a nice deal of money every month, and you pay back a little chunk every month for the rest of your life. But here the interest rate is pretty much 0. So you know, it's,

413
01:32:37.800 --> 01:32:42.530
I think, to be a a bit like

414
01:32:43.070 --> 01:32:44.710
who were

415
01:32:45.630 --> 01:32:48.160
like over 50, and maybe

416
01:32:48.320 --> 01:32:58.440
bit. But like the the extra income that comes from working, besides studies, that's most.

417
01:32:58.760 --> 01:33:00.260
I would say that

418
01:33:00.430 --> 01:33:23.810
a great deal of that is consumed in the student bar. Actually. So you do. You don't really need to to work, but but not for all, of course. I mean, housing isn't cheap, is, we didn't, either. But but there, there was there. That also is kind of beneficiaries. So so so that's why which that was good point. I need to highlight that when I write up the the paper.

419
01:33:24.200 --> 01:33:31.020
Isil Erdinc: Okay, I see. Thank you. It's it's really interesting. Nice for good thing for students

420
01:33:32.490 --> 01:33:55.680
Isabelle Ruelland: so shortly. It's a thank you for your question. It's a it's a really interesting question that it's raised, because, It was the same government during the pandemic and today and well beyond the intention of our government or provincial government in Quebec, because it's a it's a autonomous government for the State or the Province of Quebec.

421
01:33:55.680 --> 01:34:20.450
Isabelle Ruelland: I think that we, the the question that we raised is really important, and it's a fact that we need to be aware of what it, what is going on in the organization of. And that's why a sociology of work is really interesting in the case of citizen practices, because it's really famous and public health. There's a lot of scientifical proof about the the determinant. So 2 lessons

422
01:34:20.490 --> 01:34:43.640
Isabelle Ruelland: they don't the the social determinant of out to work on a health inequality it's to use and to be a really in our our tweets pick perspective with the neighbor, with the citizen that are not professional. That's the best way to acting to make a difference in health. So with those that that there's evidence space.

423
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Isabelle Ruelland: the data in help. You can justified a lot of precarization of work and a lot of really sensitive

424
01:34:52.830 --> 01:35:16.049
Isabelle Ruelland: condition, of of of a care worker that are legitimate because they are doing a difference in health, public health situation, without any consideration to the their work. Condition in the way of the salary and what it really need as a resource to organize those practices in a better quality. That's why the the the

425
01:35:16.090 --> 01:35:39.439
Isabelle Ruelland: Contract Association and that the philanthropic is going on. And so we can ask the question about the privatization of the States with those practices. But that's another question. And it's a debate today, it said. All, not all the people that agree with those consideration, of course, but it's interesting and important to stay aware with those situation in a socio-political dimension. Thank you.

426
01:35:39.680 --> 01:35:42.260
Isil Erdinc: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. So

427
01:35:43.180 --> 01:36:00.819
can I add something to it available? Answer, because I think that because I come from Canada, Quebec as as her, and I think that there is something very important to understand. Also, this practices is, not translate

428
01:36:01.030 --> 01:36:12.869
perspective about this tag, because working about youth policies in Quebec and Canada, we have to understand that

429
01:36:12.920 --> 01:36:23.880
you. You agree, maybe, or not, you will answer up there. But understand that State. I can summarize like that. The State is

430
01:36:24.660 --> 01:36:45.320
younger than community practice of information, because in Quebec community the state arrival later than their social and communitarian organization of services in the cities, in the rural urban cities. So it's we have a very younger state

431
01:36:45.410 --> 01:36:49.630
for this. So we, comparing with Europe or other countries.

432
01:36:49.670 --> 01:37:00.779
and that is very important, because induce employment intervention. We have a lot, a lot, a lot of communitarian support of people volunteering.

433
01:37:00.890 --> 01:37:29.250
but they existed. This tradition exceeds before the State. I am not justifying precariousness, however, all these practices I am not justifying the absence of financial public resources to support, because they are in some places are more efficient than even formal institution professional. But I say.

434
01:37:29.250 --> 01:37:54.650
maybe become more explained, also voluntary, by a more cutter and also by cultural and tradition, these practices, and not only by absence of the State, or a way to regen, denied the precariousness, even if precariousness exists, because now we have both. So we we can compare our work practices and unconditional involves.

435
01:37:54.820 --> 01:38:00.370
Yeah, it's a choice. It's a cultural choice. Also, it's important what you say. Thank you.

436
01:38:02.120 --> 01:38:05.070
Isil Erdinc: Thank you.

437
01:38:05.570 --> 01:38:08.590
Isil Erdinc: Are there any other questions or comments? So

438
01:38:11.630 --> 01:38:19.720
the closer is a question.

439
01:38:20.100 --> 01:38:22.670
Klaus Schmierl: I have a further question to Isabel.

440
01:38:23.170 --> 01:38:31.440
Klaus Schmierl: what do you? What you should have shown us. Webex showed a very smooth adaptation

441
01:38:31.470 --> 01:38:54.499
Klaus Schmierl: to the covid situation by citizen responsibility and and voluntarily voluntary work. is there a kind of steering committee, or or how was this kind of distributed work coordinated? And isn't it that sometimes the the working people from the public sector

442
01:38:54.500 --> 01:39:19.120
Klaus Schmierl: come, are confronted with the voluntary people who have not the resources, and they have not the authority to to deal with family situations, and and so on. only interesting. It was a very good presentation, and it from a European perspective very interesting, this kind of Communitarism and this kind of dealing with a pandemic situation. They are very, very nice. Thank you.

443
01:39:20.980 --> 01:39:32.860
Isabelle Ruelland: Yeah. Well, a. A. There's also a dark side of the the story. I I tried to push it in a showing that it's it's changing the

444
01:39:32.900 --> 01:39:41.119
Isabelle Ruelland: let's say the hierarchy and the organization of outreach work. So the practices of social worker. Because I I'm in that field

445
01:39:41.120 --> 01:40:05.859
Isabelle Ruelland: are really They are losing the sense and the meaning of their practices in a way. after the pandemic. That's for the the dimension of of the work, because they they are not doing the outreach anymore. They are like coordinators turning to be manager of those different, like civic engaged person that don't have the same knowledge of about the

446
01:40:05.860 --> 01:40:30.500
Isabelle Ruelland: health system organization, about how to reach all those diversity of association as a marijuana, and Virginia? I said. You know there, there's a lot of thing to know and to how to deal with strategic decision that they need to adapt, and it takes more time and irritation, and the coordination was fascinating.

447
01:40:30.500 --> 01:40:45.150
Isabelle Ruelland: And that's why I oriented my presentation on that with the intersectional, your network of collaboration and those collaboration have changed. They were there before the pandemic, but the way they deal with the state the way they are recognized by it.

448
01:40:45.150 --> 01:41:05.310
Isabelle Ruelland: I make a big difference in in how to support those tension. That was. That's why I emphasis on the positive dimension of the coordination, and then innovation on those space give a real place for them to, for their voice in in their knowledge of the Territory

449
01:41:08.440 --> 01:41:11.170
Isil Erdinc: as a question here.

450
01:41:13.969 --> 01:41:39.420
Cyrine Gardes: yes, thank you. My question is for all panelists. I don't know if there is time, so let's see. but I was wondering if you could see or observe label conflicts in the context used to die. And if you think that COVID-19 had an impact on labor conflictuality in the cases you you you studied. Thank you.

451
01:41:43.219 --> 01:41:51.219
Isil Erdinc: Let's make the same around the same order of the of the panelists. Then, so can we? We are. Yeah, I can sneak to you.

452
01:41:57.709 --> 01:42:04.939
yes, that's an interesting question. And as I said, that

453
01:42:04.980 --> 01:42:13.740
the way the work. Organization is in home care. It is difficult for the workers to kind of

454
01:42:13.840 --> 01:42:27.299
come together, but of course there are individual acts of resistance, if I may say so, and But what is unfortunate is that

455
01:42:27.490 --> 01:42:54.060
even after the way the companies kind of handled or these workers they did not really have much complaints, and I and as I pointed out that they kind of there was a reverse migration. They had to go back home, but they were not ready to kind of come back. And look for other. You know, employment employment opportunities, and

456
01:42:54.170 --> 01:43:01.469
they are more than happy working in the sector, because the situation in other sectors is even more deplorable.

457
01:43:01.570 --> 01:43:02.840
Yeah.

458
01:43:05.370 --> 01:43:06.299
thank you.

459
01:43:13.040 --> 01:43:18.040
Isil Erdinc: Isabella. So

460
01:43:18.639 --> 01:43:20.570
Isil Erdinc: for the question of yeah. Well

461
01:43:21.120 --> 01:43:30.959
Isabelle Ruelland: as I, as I mentioned rapidly, because I think I I want to give this space to other colleague. There's I think there's a

462
01:43:31.090 --> 01:43:51.470
Isabelle Ruelland: implicit conflict and tension between that the way the task and the activity of outreach and and vulnerable care work is organized now that it's a big transition, and people are trying to find their way

463
01:43:51.470 --> 01:44:06.169
Isabelle Ruelland: to deal with those new actors, and and to to not be submerged by by by the work, because I think that social worker are now having a to. They were already overwhelmed.

464
01:44:06.170 --> 01:44:29.700
Isabelle Ruelland: and the fact that they need to deal to a supervise to facilitate the work of a citizen nonprofessional that don't have the same knowledge, then them and we we expect them to facilitate all that. And it's a new task that they they they are happy to do. But it's it's not organized enough in the to give them the condition to be

465
01:44:29.840 --> 01:44:42.620
Isabelle Ruelland: to have the the condition to do what they want to do. So it's it's going to a a conflict, I think. around those division of work issue.

466
01:44:44.540 --> 01:44:46.650
Isil Erdinc: Thank you. And Smith.

467
01:44:48.920 --> 01:45:07.440
 yes. The. In. In the Swedish context there were not really no formal conflict during COVID-19, although there were a heated debate, I would say, because home care workers did not get

468
01:45:07.630 --> 01:45:18.549
protection equipment that that was given to like a medical doctors and professional nurses, and and so on, and Hong Kong work as a professional as well. But I didn't get it, so

469
01:45:18.620 --> 01:45:24.780
we had in age or in aged care, I would say so. There was like a

470
01:45:25.060 --> 01:45:31.580
but intense debate about that. But Maybe one

471
01:45:32.120 --> 01:45:48.599
explanation for why we did not have a form of conflict could be that, as I said, 25 percentage of of of the Oh. H. Care workers are on a temporary contract, and if we look at that group. Most of many of them are immune.

472
01:45:49.320 --> 01:45:53.689
And we

473
01:45:53.910 --> 01:45:58.240
did an interview study with them as well.

474
01:45:59.180 --> 01:46:00.999
They were sort of not

475
01:46:01.490 --> 01:46:11.439
they. What they expressed was that they they did not really have the opportunity to to raise voice, and they felt like

476
01:46:11.530 --> 01:46:15.240
well, although it was not, it's dark.

477
01:46:15.530 --> 01:46:31.999
The image was not very like all negative, but it was like they were. They experienced. They were sort of influence-wise beings in what to say below with the regular stuff. I don't know if that has anything to do with

478
01:46:32.130 --> 01:46:34.639
another thing could be that in Sweden.

479
01:46:34.690 --> 01:46:41.770
I mean, we were. Our entire labor market is organized as like. We have a very little.

480
01:46:42.310 --> 01:46:47.349
no degree of loss on, on, like, on labor

481
01:46:48.000 --> 01:46:59.940
and work, environment and the wages, and so on. We we that that is settled in coping agreements between the the parties of the labour market. and as we have, like A,

482
01:47:00.090 --> 01:47:08.510
you know this, the Swedish model of of it, and that that has turned out sort of

483
01:47:08.610 --> 01:47:11.250
being more or less a

484
01:47:12.820 --> 01:47:14.800
like

485
01:47:15.930 --> 01:47:24.880
negotiation about salaries or wages every third year, or something. So it's very rarely happens that we have a

486
01:47:25.060 --> 01:47:41.240
like conflict, a performer for formal bike, strike, or something about anything else about than than wages in in the Swedish labour market that that is very uncommon. And so

487
01:47:41.890 --> 01:47:53.420
there, there, there were issues about that way. You could see that those professions with, like you would say, lower on the status library, or the lower on the in

488
01:47:53.500 --> 01:48:03.199
income labor. At least, they were having worse conditions during the pandemic, and they did raise voice in the

489
01:48:03.280 --> 01:48:07.800
not themselves. Really, it was why like on the Indian newspapers of

490
01:48:07.980 --> 01:48:10.390
from from

491
01:48:13.530 --> 01:48:18.420
 commentators, and so on so so

492
01:48:18.440 --> 01:48:22.619
it's hard hard question to answer, but I I would say, No.

493
01:48:24.550 --> 01:48:25.550
Isil Erdinc: thank you.

494
01:48:25.810 --> 01:48:42.400
Isil Erdinc: thank you. Everyone. so yes, I think we are exactly. It's time to to finish and to close up the the discussion. So thank you all all our presenters. so Kano Isabel and and as we.

495
01:48:42.420 --> 01:49:06.929
Isil Erdinc: and thank you for the questions, and thank you all the also for the audience to be there, and for the comments and questions. and thanks, and we will maybe get back to you for for your publication if you're in interested them, because I think that it's really interesting to to compare all these different cases. So let's stay in touch and see. You may be in other panels today and tomorrow.

496
01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:28.719
Yes, so there are 4 last session tomorrow for 38. It's not finished after the very World Party, please. Tomorrow we have very interesting session about them.

497
01:49:28.720 --> 01:49:37.690
and I'll see you tomorrow or in the party here.

498
01:49:38.740 --> 01:49:58.000
Thank you very much.