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I used to be. Oh.

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Good evening and welcome to all our online participants to this section session. The session is securing full citizenship social psychological perspectives on building inclusive communities.

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I would like to start off by reading the acknowledgement of country on behalf of everyone gathered I pay respect to the spirit of country year norm where we are meeting I acknowledge the past and present Kuda Nation were in Jerry Way worm as a sovereign people, yeah, the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the non

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Aboriginal law, customs and custodianship responsibilities for country and the people that country continues to sustain generation of the generation into the future for all of us.

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I recognise the important contribution that First Nation thinkers have made to sociology including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all First Nation delegates in this room today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline. We have 3 speakers today in this session on securing full citizenship, social psychological perspectives on building inclusive communities and I would like to invite the first speaker Dr.

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Sapitla Mulapu from the University of Pretoria to present his paper. Responsibility is key thinking solidarity beyond productive forms of key.

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A paper.

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Thank you, Charles. I today I'm guided by a paper because I'm not sure.

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Of my thoughts. So what my presentation really seeks to do is to try and returned the family back to conversation about solidarity.

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And citizenship And I do so.

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Yeah, then I do so because I think that any conversation about solidarity about citizenship it's not complete if it really does not address the famine if it doesn't really take the family serious.

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And I take interest in the family in relation to solidarity because I think in the context of globalization, I do see.

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The devastation that has been visited to has been visited on families. Especially in our context in South Africa.

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Our rightly pointed out yesterday is one of the most highly unequal. Societies in the world and there are so many families that are struggling and I think It is in that context of families that are highly marginalized under conditions of globalization that One has to really pause and pay attention to the family and to bring the family back

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into conversation about globalization, sorry, about solidarity. And I'm, I am aware that there has been a attempts to incorporate the family into conversation about solidarity.

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This has been this is apparent in the work of some Christian theologians namely John Maybank, the British.

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Theologian. But I do sense that, and this is the claim I make, is that.

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Attempts to bring the family back into conversation about solidarity. Yeah, okay. A measure from Christian traditions.

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And that there's a there's a win which The family as a construct of Afro-pagan traditions still missing in the picture.

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And that for me is important if we consider the fact that that kind of construct of family remains at the margins of.

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Speaking about families. In the African context where where family is really where the understanding of family is very much coming from a Christian culture.

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And so I find that it's important for me to pay attention to the Afro Pegan traditions and the understanding of family.

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So that the conversation about solidarity. And citizenship becomes much more inclusive. Much more, yeah, it becomes much more inclusive.

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Now I think it is in if we are going to take the family. As a construct of Afrobegan tradition seriously.

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What I suggest is that it's important therefore. To take. To consider indigenous African religion seriously.

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In the discussions about solidarity and about citizenship. Because precisely because the family that I'm concerned with images as in images from African traditions.

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It is validated by Indigenous African religion. So it's important to combine these 2 things.

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And.

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And I want to suggest that,

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If we are to understand family as a construct of African traditions and solidarity if we are to have to appreciate that conversation then we must We must really appreciate, we must take into consideration care, the notion of care.

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Because in the context of Afro-pagan traditions, as we find them in southern Africa, Care emerges as the foundation of solidarity as the foundation of an understanding and appreciation of solidarity and I think this is really This is really where my deliberations are going.

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I'm concerned about care as a construct of you know, indigenous African religion because it is indigenous African religion that validates or that gives legitimacy to.

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The Afro Pagan sense of family. And so I'm going to try and. Yeah, deliberate a little bit around.

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What care might concern might might look like. If we Yeah, if we consider Indigenous African religion and then I will use that kind of deliberation to make some concluding remarks.

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Now, we cannot appreciate care. In order to, right in order to appreciate care. As a construct of indigenous African religion, we must We must pay attention to sovereignty.

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And here I'm talking about Sovereignty not in relation to state sovereignty as we find in Agamemnon and others.

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And I'm not talking about sovereignty. In relation to the sovereignty of the individual as we find in the existential literature of Bathai, Josh Batai.

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Which IA woman whom I really like. But I am referring to sovereignty as the return of what is lost.

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This is true. This is really what I am concerned with sovereignty as the return of what is lost.

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Especially what is lost via the mode of death.

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Not just what is lost. I lost my wallet and then I find it tomorrow morning. But that which is lost and and only lost via the mode of death.

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It's the return of that. That thing. That speaks to the notion of sovereignty as a construct of indigenous African religion.

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And I think you can almost guess that. You know that you can almost see that the return of the ancestor.

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Speaks precisely to the notion of sovereignty. And and it's it's it's interesting the question of sovereignty as the return of what is lost lost fire the mode of death is interesting because It is death that

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Because it's lost via death.

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Deprives it of and takes it outside of, it takes it away from the realm. Of things that can be seen as commodities.

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And it and and and brings it back via and brings it back only in the form of a gift. In other words, that which is lost via the mode of death can only return as a gift.

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And I think you can almost see some some connections here to other traditions. The Christian tradition for instance where

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Where God gives his son. Who becomes a gift via sacrificial death. So I think I do see some connections here to indigenous African religion where death.

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Where they return the return. Via death constitutes that which is lost as nothing but a gift. And so I just want I want to propose here and I'm not sure if any I've not seen anyone writing that way where the ancestors, the return of the ancestor, into the family is the return of the gift.

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It's an attempt to You know the return of the at the ancestor mediates It's a medium via which the gift.

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Retains back to the family to restore relationships. So it is, it is. You know this this notion of of of Sovereignty is interesting because it's dense sharply too.

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I think. Versions of solidarity that conceive or draw their imagination imaginations about solidarity.

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On the basis of

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You know, by taking by taking an economistic order for granted.

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This kind of model of sovereignty. Challenge is the economy's economy. Broadly conceived as the order within which social life happens.

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You know, yeah, and therefore. And therefore, you know, it's imaginations of solidarity.

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Can only be but non-productive in their orientation. Non-productive in the sense that they are outside of the realm of production of economy.

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And this is really my struggle. This is where my struggle is. To try any motion. Solidarities, solidarity.

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Outside of the dominant paradigm of production. And to think about Okay, outside of.

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You know, care as we find it within the parameters of production of economy. You know, to try and think about non-productive forms of care that can only That mediates conversation about solidarity not on the basis not so much of our attributes of my capacity, of my goodness.

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Of personal attribute personnel, you know, something that I can claim as mine, my attribute, my capacity.

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You know, I'm I'm struggling to find the way of speaking about care. In a way that dispenses with my abilities.

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My My attributes. And in ways of thinking about care that locate the gift at the very heart.

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Of how I imagine solidarity such that such that solidarities are mediated by are mediated by the medium of the gift which can only be passed.

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Received. Thankfully and passed on to others. And this is what this is what I see really when I look.

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When I look at the return of the ancestor to the family, this is exactly what I see. I see.

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The return of the gift which is supposed to be received and circulated.

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Within familiar relationships in order to repair, build, relations among kin and this is this is what is important for me kinship relations you know when I read up from Christian when I read from the Christian theologians about the attempts to bring the family back into conversation about Solitaire.

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I don't see the family in relation to. The family as defined by kinship solidarity.

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And, and the understanding of sovereignty that I see from that I am able to extrapolate from indigenous African religion allows me to do that.

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To give. Purchase and importance to kinship relations. And I think Any conversation about solidarity if it is to be inclusive has to start with kin.

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That's my that's really that's my It has to start with king. You know,

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And I, you know, yeah, it has to start with kinship relations. Build solidarity within.

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Within kinship relations. In other words, that we have to imagine a form of solidarity that takes black seriously.

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I know that when we, you know, social scientific thinking tends to dispense with the body and questions of blood.

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But I think we have to we have to take kinship relations and therefore blood relations quite seriously. In inversions of imaginations of solidarity and I know that I'm still very much at the very earliest thinking of about this topic.

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And I might not be. As clear as I should be. But I think, but I think this is where I am.

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This is where I am and this is. The persuasion I'm feeling at this moment is that Any visions of solidarity that seeks to.

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To become intrusive to expound on broader conceptions of solidarity, particularly in the context of globalization and its marginalization of

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Families and if You know, if you think about The fact that in South Africa the most families that are marginalized are those who are from black families who use particular kinds of who are oriented towards a particular way of understanding family.

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So it becomes important for me. It's a struggle that I carry. To say how do we speak to that kind of conception of how do we speak to this relations that are built on a particular module of family?

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Because

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You know sometimes I feel like my place in When I go, when I when I enter the university and this is the feeling I had also when I went to church.

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That the space of church, the space of university is a space that Compares one. If one is coming from certain backgrounds to leave something at a gate.

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And to approach thinking and thought knowledge. On the basis of distance from oneself. And I am trying to push back against that.

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I am trying to push back against that paradigm. I'm trying to take everything that defines me into the university.

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And this is really I'm trying to share with you the struggle. I am I am

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Yeah, the struggle that is with me because a lot of times I read when I read I'm thinking at the university.

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Preparing for teaching, writing. I asked myself. Those people that are in the townships, where are they?

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In this conversation. And for much of a time I don't see them. And this is why I'm this is why I'm persuaded to say Knowledge.

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As articulated with in the university must mustache those spaces that are spaces of the condemned, they oppressed of the world and speak to them in a way that

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Is significant to how they understand the world. Yeah, and so I'm hoping that one day when I have written this and published it, it will become much more clear to yourself and to myself.

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I have written this and published it, it will become much more clear to yourself and published it, it will become much more clear to yourself and to myself.

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But this is really sharing with you a struggle that I am heavy.

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Just stand up on peak change.

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There you go. Thank you, Sir Peter. Our next presentation is by Professor Abba Abdi from the University of Minnesota and her topic is on Muslim refugees.

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Schooling inclusion exclusion in the US public education system. The floor is yours.

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No. To do your thing you just need to And then you just use the keys to move on. Okay. Thank you very much for us.

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Can we know if people can feel well or we just assume that they can?

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This is, it's yeah. I think they will hear you now. Okay. Thank you very much, Charles.

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Thank you everyone for coming. A bedler kind of gave us a free abstract kind of philosophical, I guess, discussion reflection and I'm going to give us a little bit more concrete.

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Topic. So let me go to my beginning. So thank you very much. I'm excited to be part of this panel and I would like to thank Charles for inviting me to the panel and for organizing the panel and also, yeah, Alison, thank you very much.

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So this is, I'm excited to be here and I'm going to share some preliminary reflections of a book projections of a book project that is slowly, slowly coming along.

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But that is still under construction. So I will not be presenting the full findings as the data analysis is really incomplete but I definitely would be happy to elaborate on some of the reflections I share in the Q&A.

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So the book project is about refugee communities such as Somalis and how they partake in the educational choice debate in the US.

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So I'm coming from the US context. This is very much an international conference. So I want to make sure that this is located in the US and is specifically the state of Minnesota where I work and I live.

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The arrival of this community in Minnesota in the early 1,900 ninety's coincided with the emergence of heated debates about school choice.

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And it specifically charter schools. And what do I mean by school choice? And I'm going to use a code here.

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A traditional choice is based on the idea that parents are in control of where their child goes to school. And this can be accomplished through a variety of programs that are typically carried out in the state and local level.

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So some options are private schools, some are public and then within the public you have traditional public schools and charter schools.

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Ender said in how new migrants at Refugees lead to public institutions such as the education system.

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And they are full that their free show privileges and cross position plays in their dealings with these institutions are of course important.

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They have both theoretical and policy implications. The American education system is ideally expected to produce not only educated citizens or citizenry, but also common American identity that socializes.

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And brings in migrant children into the American fold. Immigrant and refugee education is central for the debates around social cohesion and inclusion, which is one of the topics of this panel.

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Of course, education is also hailed as key avenue of upward mobility for generations of migrants over the decades, right?

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You know, when you, you know, really, I guess when education or public education was instituted in the around just kind of late nineteenth century it was this idea of how do we bring all these migrants coming from all parts of the world speaking German and different Scandinavian languages and Russian.

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How do we create an American identity? How do we make all these kids coming from different religious sects or denominations, it's coming from different religious sects or denominations and then languages, how do we produce the American citizens?

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But of course, all of you are aware those of you familiar with the US, but also this applies to South Africa and many parts of the world, racial inequality, disparities in educational attainment between students of color, white students, of course poor students, rich students persist.

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Segregation also persists, and I'll say more about that later. In this project I'm very much interested in advancing our understanding of experiences of Laviches and newcomers in the education system.

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As I stated earlier, we know new immigrants and refugees are inserted into the rhetoric of Americanization and integration.

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While the structural conditions and axes of inequality persist and even are becoming more and more solidified. So some of the ideas kind of anchor in the book project that the book project is based on over sixty-inducted in the book project.

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The book project is based on over sigasty in-depth interviews with parents, youth and school administrators.

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And it explores 3 questions. One, what are the parent's professionals for choosing charter schools, sorry, charter schools versus traditional public schools.

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In essence, how do parents make school choice? How do they make sense of the choices available to them and then how do they decide where to send their children?

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How do parents and school administrators articulate with distinguishes charter schools from traditional public schools and you know do they reflect on are they aware of the student outcomes, the educational outcomes?

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And finally, how do youth, parents and teachers and school administrators understand and articulate the quasi segregation that new migrants and refugees often experience in both charter schools and urban traditional schools and I will say more about what I mean by the quasi simulation.

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So why are these questions important? You know indicator and shows us that let me rephrase that.

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Minnesota actually brightest itself to be the first state to have legalized charter schools in 1,991 it was the first place where charter schools charter schools are publicly funded to schools that are independent so they are you know semi-independent but the funding comes from the state itself.

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And this was because of growing school choice movement in the US. The charter schools were basically a reaction to a perception in some circles that public education was failing American children.

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In 1,983 the National Commission on Excellence in Education which was created by the Secretary of Education through a damaged report entitled A Nation at Risk, the Imperative for Educational Reform.

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So really those are some of the debates that are anchoring the charter school movement. One much of the literature on the effects of charter schools in racial segregation has been done by examining black white racial employment, there is less attention to migrant temperature outcomes and experiences.

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Okay. And I think it's very important to understand how this is impacted and how this is lived and experienced by refugees and newcomers.

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Because of the questions of inclusion, inequality, democracy, really at the heart of public education in terms of newcomers and how they confront and deal with the dilemma of the educational institutions.

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So I, in this project that I'm trying to anchor some American educational experiences and outcomes within the larger history of Somali refugee educational experiences in pre-migration settings.

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Just to provide a little bit of that historical kind of background, the majority of somebody is by the time they come to the US, they have spent a decade or even 2 in refugee camps.

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Some idea as its state collapsed in 1,991 which basically means over the last 35 years there has somebody has been somebody I guess failed this state really but you know some functioning but mostly a small part of the capital of the country, but mostly a small part in the capital of the country where the government

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has some control of the country where the government has some control but in institutions such as education, health care, everything collapsed.

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But in institutions such as education, health care, everything collapsed. And the refugee camps there is very little opportunity of some control.

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But in institutions such as education, healthcare, everything collapsed. And the refugee camps there is very little opportunity of education for a lot of children.

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So for example, you know, about 20 years ago, UNESCO reported that 24% of the Somali population and that is was illiterate basically and that involves 36% for men and only 14% of females.

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So the education institutions have collapsed, but already the Somali language was only written in 1,973 so 4 schooling is a much more recent kind of development in somatia and this is important to understand because the refugee parents are coming from that background so that tells you that the parents themselves are coming altogether with free

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law educational attainment and that has implications for the cultural capital, social capital, the language is skills and the types of support that they can provide for their children.

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So, you know, I, in this project, what's going to be what's very important is to link the historical data on the educational sector in Somalia and then lack of educational opportunities with the new challenges that refugees are experiencing in the US context.

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The preliminary analysis shows that these parents confront a highly complex American educational landscape. Refugees in Minnesota enter a public education paradox with this estate placed at the top of Booth Achievement Discourse and also one of the highest racial achievement gap in the US.

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And I don't have a lot of the highest racial achievement gap in the US. And I don't have a lot of slides, but I have a couple of slides to illustrate that.

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So Minnesota's former governor, for example, students earn the best ACT testing course. And this is without fail almost every year.

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You know, but also the top in terms of scores and then in terms of achievement a gap and the gap between white students and students of color, not only black students, Hispanic students, Native American students, oftentimes the Minnesota is one of the worst places to be a person of color.

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So, you know, these refugees are coming to join in this paradox. And of course, they're not educated in it.

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They are not awareness of it. So they don't necessarily, you know, the tools that they have to navigate that are limited.

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And it's clear that the narratives I collected from refugees show the struggle to navigate such complex system.

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Due to economic constraints that refugees with low human capital and social capital language, education networks. That they face in developed and highly industrialized society, these families are often inserted into racially stratified and class based American system which impacts both housing options as well as educational opportunities for their children.

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For many Somali parents and I think this is absolutely true for many other immigrant and refugee communities, especially those coming from kind of poor regions of the world.

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The link between better schools and better neighborhoods that maturity of middle class Americans have internalized. And that's tough, facialised, is a very new alien concept.

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It's something that they're not aware of. So this idea that I'm going to friend away with my children or move to the suburbs to get my children to better perform in schools, that is not available.

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That's not possible because that requires financial, you know, capital and networks and know how to be able to navigate.

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Cliffugee parents that therefore find themselves sending their children to schools that are typically Sorry, that typically inspire headlines of the sort of this Minnesota's failure to graduate high school of colour is among the worst.

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So they end up sending their children to those schools. And you know, Of course, I think anybody who understands social inequality could be produce work on economic capital, social capital, how that directory shapes chance to academic success, this is really not surprising.

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This is something that we have known for a long time in the literature. But ultimately the question is surrounding Somali for a few children's education as well as other refugee and migrants can only of course be understood with the dual lens of what it means to be a refugee from a country, especially collapsed nation

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states, countries that are in conflict or protracted conflict, you know, the experience of somebody is very much true for the Mongra Fiji community for example.

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It's probably firm which is true for students coming from Venezuela or Columbia. It's to students who have been fleeing for their lives sometimes for a decade.

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Or who's parents have been in for their lives sometimes for a decade or whose parents have been in a precarious situation or themselves have been labor migrants in that region.

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So, the question is, you know, a lot of questions that require your urgent attention that I hope in part to address with the book is what does it mean to be a full city when our children's educational experiences are so divergent and so segregated.

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How is it possible to build inclusive communities in such highly segregated environment? How might we imagine immigrants at refugee incorporation?

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Of course, when we think of migration, we think of the promises of migration, that you're leaving a bad place to go to a better place.

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But in in in looking at the educational outcomes of refugee and migrants, we have to also ask what are the promises of migration?

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The migration aspirations of parents for their children is future. How are these realized? How are they foiled?

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How might we better imagine equity, inclusion and social cohesion in the educational space? And just kind of as illustrative, you know.

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So I think, I kind of took few schools in Minnesota. Those that are at the top and those that are at the bottom.

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Again, I honestly don't think I'm telling you anything new, but you see academia is a somati charter school.

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I remember the first time I visited that school I thought that except for the building infrastructure it resembled exactly in the future times that I did feel the work in 2,002 to 2,003 in Kenya.

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100% so many children. 100%, you know, almost except for most of the teachers, 100%.

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It's basically 100% socioeconomic, linguistic, glutious.

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Ethnic segregation there is not there may be a couple of Ethiopian you know, around my children, everybody else.

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A lot of the charter schools and that are that's segregated they are at the bottom in terms of almost Right, 2 or 3% of the students meeting the student standards.

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So of the Minnesota elementary schools and this is the whole estate, 844 of them, sorry, 848 of them.

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This is school in terms of school, their reading and math. Performance is ranked at 844.

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So all you need to look at is free discounted, 90% of students. Are poor and qualified for a free discounted.

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100%, they use African-american dads. And another school that is actually in my neighborhood in Minneapolis.

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Those of you who know, I don't know, they carry it kind of that area. You know, predominantly wide, predominantly middle-class upper middle class.

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And, you know, Yeah, it's one of the top 20 schools will be in those areas. But they have to be extremely wide.

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There has to be a lot of resources and this is across the board. If you look at any of the schools, you look at racial makeup, you look at socioeconomic.

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Hierarchy or position and then the schools are either failing. Or they are absolutely the top, the ones that are giving the ACTs that are 31 out of 32.

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So it's not surprising when I start high school is in Blymouth and Wise at high school is in a Plymouth, you know, that you would know.

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Diana's in a Plymouth, you would know. Diana's in your high school, a school that's also, a dinosaur high school, a school that's also, I live southwest Minneapolis, not far from where I live actually.

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Roosevelt which is kind of more in south Minneapolis. It's across the board that's you get this is actually only I have to look at the date but this is very recent a year at least.

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And I actually went through DC schools. They're either serving Hispanic students, Native American, Mong or somebody.

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These are almost all the schools. They identified about 40 some schools in Minnesota and almost all of them are serving minorities or the only one is that might be serving white population or the rural ones, kind of small towns, but the maturity serving Native Americans.

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This reality. And I don't necessarily think that my book project is going to solve this, but I'm interested in how parents And it's especially young people who go through this school system, how do they understand who they are, what they are within this larger American complex.

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And, and, polarized. Society. And so some of the questions I'm asking the youth who went through charter schools or private schools is what their experiences were and if they would change it if they could?

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Are they going to send their children to charter schools, for example. And one of the lines that became their children to charter schools, for example.

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And one of the lines that became clear is that almost all the young somebody who went to charter schools for example and one of the lines that became clear is that almost all the young somebody who went to charter schools say that, and by the way, I'm only going to, many of the ones I interviewed only came to college or community college or

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university. So they're the ones who made it. But they always talk about the culture shop that they experience in coming from 100% sympathy into the space to the University of Minnesota, which is predominantly a wide institution.

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So I'm hoping to fill some of the gaps of our understanding of how refugee children is cultural, racial, religious and socioeconomic status inform educational decisions.

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I hope, you know, really to add to you know how we understand and how we grapple with the challenges educators, researchers and policymakers confront in meeting the educational needs of new immigrants and refugees.

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And finally, I hope that this study and others, similar research can advance the theoretical dilemmas around the school choice and whether this development happens in new democratic spaces or simply further entrenches.

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The already kind of prevalent segregation that is reality of public education in the US. Thank you.

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Thank you. Our Third presenter is an online presentation. And it is. By Dania Nito and Drekwell Ribeiro.

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From the centre of social studies. University of Cumbria, Portugal. The title is The Challenges of Building Inclusive Communities.

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The contribution of studying housing, social representations and practices in Portugal. You're welcome to share your screen.

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Deliver your paper. Thank you.

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And it's okay. You can see.

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We can see and we can hear.

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Okay, thank you. With over half of the world's population living, in urban areas, housing inequalities are at the heart of the challenges.

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So by contemporary societies to achieve greater social equality, inclusion for citizenship and healthy lives. This is by end to large the result of the rise of financial markets, actors and motivates in housing provision.

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The financialization of housing. And this is the exhausted the social territorial inequalities in the access to housing and housing security.

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In Portugal the process of finestalization of housing resulted largely from public policies directed at attracting current investments along with liberalization of the rental market.

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And the impacts of housing finishes financialization includes increasing housing prices and inequalities in housing comforts.

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And So, your territorial segregation forset evictions due to rising housing prices or conversion of long-term rental contracts.

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Into short term term, rentals. Ensuring the right to equating housing for all requires the contribute an or different differentiation actors.

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For example, policy makers, owners, investors, activists. With print, frequently opposing interest names, namely when private proprietor rights, quiet with property as social and as a social function.

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Oh.

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And the hours that, aims to deepen at the understanding of stakeholders. So shall representation and practice about housing and explore and them with the scope of the project housing.

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We conducted 2 focus, group sessions. The Fox group, were transcribed and then applied at automatic analysis to map the main

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Sorry, I'm trying to, okay. This questions, group were organizing involving, heterogeneous groups with stakeholders with different relationships.

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And points of view in relation to housing. These groups involved a total of 12 participants. 6 from Liza and 6 from Porton.

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8, participants were women. And for men, aged between 26 and 77.

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Through this session these participants show their points of view whether in terms of they professional or their relationship with housing.

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In some cases, participants assume different identities to our points of view.

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Okay. Primary, preliminary results. I like the importance of the socioeconomical historical and political contexts.

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In social groups. There is a percentage about housing and housing practices. The change in the changes in the level of social representations about Aussie starts from a conception of housing as a priority in life.

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In which the call was the acquisition of our home with the changes in the financial market. And the consequent crisis this priority changes as it became difficult to buy and house people started rent in However, the rental market has become in inaccessible.

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In the years that followed the global finish of crisis as the code shows it is become increasingly difficult to rent a modest flat to live in.

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The present social economic and political context with the highlights to protection of 2 rights at risk. First of all, the consideration that the right of the right to ousting is ancient in the, legislation.

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But that nowadays this right has been subject to economic interests. There is a disc that tell us that the housing market is not for Portuguese people, but to attract capital from a.

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On their other end, despite the effective dimension, the death participants recognized in the right to the city with ideals of belonging and the possibility of ones that are built in neighborhoods.

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The psychology suffering when people are resettled and removal from the dwellings and their neighborhoods is everyday.

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Many tested frequently through resentment and anger. This evidence and the deepen of these rights to right housing and to right city allowed us to understand that is in the realization of these rights, that process of inclusion and a clue exclusion intersect.

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The process of, exclusive are manifest mainly by tenants. Living in proper private rental housing Dennis to refer the value of the rent, the idea of overburdened.

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They, there is also the feeling that the payment is too much and there, that there is a lack of living, conditions.

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But also the increase. In the bureaucratic procedures to rent a house leads to ex prison process and discrimination.

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Other examples, show how there is the great power of selection by the owners which leads to exclusion process for example parts a participants show that in order to rent out it is necessary to expose All personal life.

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There is also other factors that are considered in this exclusion process which are found in the form of MOLE, a mobilization of negative stereotypes.

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Regarding identities, sexualities. Nationalities and professional stability.

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As the complaints manifest, by tenants, put the social group in at a disadvantage position that this seems to this pull letter statements aiming at the defense of a positive social identity of landlords.

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They refer to the fact that not all owners have interest to exploit and that many experienced difficulties is providing by 10 tenants with living conditions.

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We also have the example of an owner who shows out during the pandemic. We also have the example of, of an owner who shows out during the pandemic in, the example, of, an owner who shows out during the pandemic in, extempted tenants from paying rent.

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Some people clearly, defend them in advertising that they are scholars who are this perspective negative stereotypes are mobilized in, extempted tenants from paying rent.

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Some people clearly, defend them from paying rent. Some people clearly, defend them in advertising, some people clearly, defend them in advertising, that they are scholars.

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To our this, perspective, negative stereoty tenants also manifest strategies of defense of their social identity that allude to the differential of power between social groups.

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The reference of enticement of tenants by investors with large monetary offers to invite them if they they are they are vulnerably team many tenants cannot understand legal vocabulary and bureaucratic procedures which weakens them.

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It shows the fragility in terms of knowledge of procedural justice. They also refer to the mobilization of negative stereotypes on and they point out that they are owners.

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Who hides behind the state agencies, like, lawyers and solicitors in order to provide responsibilities and not have to show their face.

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There are also situations where there are incorrect practice. Such as not issuing resides and advising text, text procedures.

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Risals also evidence the justice concerns. For instance, a considering their housing needs, the dialogue with professionals in these fields.

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Stands out because it's allow them to understand the state's weakness in terms of housing production. This is a scarce and it is felt by all participants.

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That is a priority to provide in housing to those who need it. On the other end. And those who are in a situation are and result, support and expect scrutiny by the company, competent identities.

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Regarding the bureaucratic procedures and and unbelievable delay. A situation is relation related to the attribution of houses and the fact the that a person person pays little of his rent due to state support in the view of one participants these procedures and end up being unfair and are those who really need housing and cannot afford

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it. It was in this sense that in response to this introversion, a participant who works with these issues reveals that these are occasional cases.

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And that, these cases of injustice will always be. Defending her identity.

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Results, evidence that in defense of the socio economic historical and political context. In social representations about housing and housing practices.

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And the perception of 2 rights at risk. The right, to housing and the right to sit in, manifest in the description of process of, exclusion mainly, by tenants.

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Rizal, so I like concerns about justice. Both in the form of this, distributive and the procedural justice.

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From the analysis of the group discussion, the focus group, it was possible to extract. A clues to understand what promotes or prevents a collaboration between stakeholders.

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On the on hand the discussion of one of the groups in which stakeholders were more homogeneous.

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A lot for the calmer discussion and the defense of essential and basic rights the right to housing the social status component was also evident in this discussion.

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The other discussion, was more for events because the dialogue was more in terms of the tenants versus owners, the cosmic by frequent mobilization of negative stereotypes.

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At positive social identity. There are also social representation in this area that's related to evictions. The dialogues show the participants consider that is easier to invite people from social then, private owners and the, this is a huge problem.

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Thank you, to listen me. We have some references. And that's all.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you for your contribution. We really appreciate it. It was very interesting opening up now. Are there any questions? It was very interesting. I'm opening up now. Are there any questions?

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I have a few but I would first give the opportunity. If someone has a question to one of the participants.

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Edison?

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Excuse me, I have a quick comment and then a question for Dr. Malapo. I think I really resonated when you talked about you left parts of you before you come into the academy.

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You talk about your African background and in your pagan understanding of religion and how you have to leave that to come in.

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I think as a woman sometimes I do that too. I leave. Things behind and I think sometimes I feel badly because I think that maybe that's kind of the best part of me that I'm leaving out and it's not being shared.

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So I really appreciated that comment. But I want to talk to you about your ideas of family in these contexts.

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But I want to talk to you about your ideas of family in these contexts as well. Does it have to be?

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Can family be defined as something different because, for example, even in the academy, my PhD chair has passed away a very good, very, very close advisor of mine also has passed away.

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And I feel like they are always giving a gift that create a solidarity with us in a community, but it's not blood-related.

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Could that be possible too, even within the academy?

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I think I'll take one or 2 questions if there's more questions and then we can can let people respond.

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Do you have a question?

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And it's 12. I do know, I mean I was fascinated by your talk because II followed American politics for a little while when Obama was president.

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And I know how Obama care. I interpreted it as an attempt to a vision a more inclusive health care system.

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And so I'm wondering whether Has there no, has Has there been no attempts to imagine an inclusive?

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Education And the other question I think. I don't know but when you were speaking I was wondering wow what is the American dream?

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And yeah, yeah.

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Do you want to be? Is, is there any further questions? And maybe one question for Dania.

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With regard to who the presentation yes i mean i see your reference to the right to the city Are you drawing on the food, David Harvey?

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Who are you drawing on with regard to your discussion the because it seems to me that there's always a tension.

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Between private property which is an individualized right. And the right to the city which is a collectivised right.

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And that of course brings in the whole notion of commodification with regard to housing. And the debate between use versus exchange value.

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And way people go with that. So doesn't that interest? You know to what your participants said the tenants versus The owners because hard you balance those contesting rights out.

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With regard to with regard to these matters. But I think we can let Doc Muller who first answer the question.

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In the order we had the questions. In, our, then you can answer. Thank you.

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Yes, thank you, Khadija. I can't remember my colleague's name.

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And I said yes. And I said yes. Listen, your comment is so. And I said, yes.

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Listen, your comment is so important because It is what spared me to to do this talk because I remember last year there was a book launch by a certain professor in South Africa and asked to be a respondent.

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And one of my in my response I mentioned exactly what I said today that I have always had to leave a part of me out when I go to church and then I discover the same is the case when I go to university.

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So after the talk to this professor who was a philosopher came to me and he said Spitler I think what you leave out is the best part of you.

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So it's interesting that you live out is the best part of you. So it's interesting that you just exactly captured in that way.

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And ever since he spoke, once he had spoken that like that to me, I thought I'm going to go and fetch the best part of it and bring it into my intellectual journey and so this is really an attempt to do that.

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But what the question really that you ask is very important because I do know that elsewhere when I wrote and published the paper.

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I was really interested more in blood but I thought, hey, they're going to take me to task if I talk about blood.

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I rather spoke about the law. Precisely because of what you just asked. I realized that Family.

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I think the law best captures family for me because I have seen families in the townships where people are not related by blood.

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You know, people who are destitute who tend to grow up with those who have the means, then they grow and they become a family and they are known to be so and children even though they are not.

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And they grow to identify with that family and they become family really. And I do know how, I do know that historically in in southern Africa there had been even though we don't have a wait for adoption.

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There had been adoption practices. And people who are taking over And then locally they became families. Family members to people who are not related to them by blood.

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So I think I do concede what you are saying. It's very important. But I think there's also an interest in me about blood because and I do see the danger of blood because of is nationality.

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But I think at a certain level I'm more interested just to Yeah, to retain the Bodi back into academic conversation that is very hostile to bodies.

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That's really why I was talking about blood. But I think I think I'll concede I'm going to step a little bit away from blood and talk about the law.

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Before I answer actually, that kind of thing. So family both. Li but but also fictive family, which is very, very important.

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Just expanded maybe, yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I asked it about kind of the idea of Obamacare and for none those people looking at Obamacare from outside of the US context.

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You know, potentially seeing that the United States now public health, sorry, access to health access to free health care is possible.

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Actually Obamacare is very, very limited. It's nothing compared to the Canadian universal access to health care that's free or the kind of national health services in your NHS in I went to school in England.

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I got my from Sussex. So it's absolutely different. But it is definitely, it's progress.

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But it is definitely, it's progress. But it's definitely, it's progress. But it's very for a child and it's very fertile and there is a lot of hostility to it so it's really under threat all the time is free.

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Of course, public education, you know, access to public education is, you know, has been, I think since the, 1,800 seventys has been in place, but the question of what kind of education can people access was always contingent on the types of resources available in particular communities.

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So in unlike Canada for example, which I know well in the US property taxes are very important for school funding.

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So, you know, you know, more prosperous kind of you know more like you know middle class upper middle class areas are able to fund their schools better and also the families are able to contribute in addition to what the state brings in.

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And then you have schools that are in marginalised communities, you know, free fertile kind of communities, both in terms of socio economically, food deserts, families with large a number of incarcerated parents, for example.

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So education becomes a space, and this idea that the education system, even though this idea of aspiration, the American dream, that it would be an equalizer is also you know oftentimes confronts.

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This idea of that education reproduces. The types of hierarchies that are already entrenched in the society.

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And there are a lot of attempts. There is always this idea that the US He spends the most in public in health care and in education and oftentimes has the worst outcome of all developed countries.

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There is that reality. I hope you answered that kind of question. And the idea of American dream. And the idea of American dream, I think that me dream is very important.

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I think a lot of immigrants go to the US, you know, all immigrants who go to the US, you know, the US is the most.

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Coveted, sort of, in the vision destination. And there's, you know, global surveys that have been done.

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If you ask anyone in Ethiopia or in China or in Ukraine, of all the countries that you might migrate to where will you go?

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The US oftentimes tops all those countries. Having said that kind of the reality of, you know, once you get there, you know, people, you know, manage, they can find the jobs and eventually you know, but the US has, context is important and the strength the free is strong and deeply

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entrenched structural conditions that are highly facialized, highly classed. Oftentimes kind of make it harder.

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For people to realize that dreams it doesn't mean that they fail oftentimes these are strong people who are talking about agency they're taking care of their families and a lot of these provisions we are talking about are providing for dozens and dozens and dozens of their families.

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They have to love lifeblood off. Their nation in certain ways, even in Mexico, like a lot of countries now, their GPA is highly dependent on the remittance money that the refugees and migrants are sending back.

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So the American dream is both kind of an aspiration but also it's it's ephemeral it's it's

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Thank you very much. I'll ask for a round of questions again. Maybe Daniella can respond.

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Yes.

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Yes. In fact, this, this, this focus group, discussions. Involved heterogeneous people and it was very interesting because we in the same group and the properties and the owners and activists and students and the focus on the right to city was really a huge point of discussion because we have a

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lot of discussions in rights to the this The, the proposed of the project, of our Zinc, we are, integrate is a presentation in a research project on the center of social studies.

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To discuss collective rights but in fact just one focus group permits this discussion with without a huge discussion because when we have a lot of people, permits this discussion, without, this discussion, without, this discussion, without, a huge discussion because when we have a lot of people, we are in the same point

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and without a huge discussion because when we have a lot of people we are in the same point and have the same rights in terms of property.

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They are in But when we have, a different positions and identities. This collective rights are not easy to discuss.

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So I hope to. Are you to, in same way to your question. Thank you.

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Thank you, Daniel. Any questions? Okay, yes, another question. Thank you very much.

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I have a little bit of same question. Thank you very much. I have a little bit of same question. Thank you very much.

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I have a little bit of same question. Thank you very much. I have a little bit of same question as last night different.

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This time I have a little bit the same question as last night different. This time I have a little bit the same question as last night. Different. This time I do not miss something.

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But I would love to hear a little bit of the same question as last night different. This time I don't I do not miss something but I would love to hear a little bit about, and this is about my ignorance.

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I don't know the literature of Afro-futurism or Afro-pagan traditions.

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So of course, over the last 200 plus years, you know, Christianity islam, you know, the last 300 years I guess in Africa it's been very much integrated and you know deeply, deeply, adapted I guess and internalized and I would love to hear a little bit about how you're thinking of Afro pagan

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traditions in 20 first century and you know so a little bit of course all collisions and identity and tradition is spirituality of course certain constructs.

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So of course they can be she.

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What do archaeologists do? Free dog? No, she created, yeah, I guess maybe, yeah, I guess maybe, or, but also then it reminds me a little bit about this idea of the invention of tradition, but also then it reminds me a little bit about kind of this idea of the invention of tradition, you know, the, you

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know, but also then it reminds me a little bit about this idea of the invention of, how are you in vision and how do you think about the Afro pagan tradition being reenacted or free created or free yeah yeah yeah I just want to ask is there any other questions asked to that one.

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Do you want one? I think she's gone, yes. Okay, sorry. If she returns we can, We can ask the question.

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Just to follow. Oh yes, maybe the chats. Can we see these any questions in the chats?

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Is just C.

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No, I don't, I don't see any.

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There was some assistance with the screen and that was all. Okay, so Peter just to latch on to what, You've given us a lot of thought.

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To think about and I was also thinking of the conference tea theme which talks about entanglements. Between religion, politics and economics.

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And your notion of of of key.

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Yes, so if that whole notion of rebirth. I thought was very interesting if you can maybe Tell us a bit more about that.

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And, and I wonder, does, does that sort of also link up maybe to some of the boys thoughts of double consciousness.

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Or not. I don't know. There's just some thoughts ahead. Yeah, no thanks for the question now.

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And yes, I used to wait. In fact, it's in this conference that I have. Come across that for pagan traditions.

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Because I realized that. As I write as I develop intellectually. I'm building a vocabulary for a constituency that is completely neglected and I'm using the concept of African traditions deliberately.

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First, because I am resisting, I don't want to talk about What do they call it?

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Pre-colonial African. I don't believe in, you know, I don't want to make reference to pre-colonial something.

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I talk about Afro-peechan traditions because the traditions I'm referencing are continuing now.

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Yeah, that's the claim I'm making that they are there. We can see them. I go to funerals and they can see them.

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I've studied religion. I can see immediately when religion surfaces in the way families constitute themselves. So I don't want to, the concept of, heritage traditions takes me out I don't want to entertain nostalgia pre-colonial. This is the other thing.

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I want to work with what is there. It may be it may now be subdued to a Christian culture.

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But it's there nonetheless. And it's important that we give. Space to it and I agree Christianity Islam have been so many Africans think about the well through those lenses, but millions of Africans think about the world through those lenses, but millions of Africans who are very much, even though they are at the

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margins, they have a different lens. And I really focus on Christianity because I come from a region where Christianity has been, they invade the colonizer.

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Yeah, yeah. I don't know. What was your other question?

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No, I think the answer, but it may be one thing you can do is elaborate on how much I and I talk to everybody.

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Yes, there's you know, biggest we don't just disappear. Yeah. It was interconnected.

369
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Yes. Yeah, yeah, no, the question of entanglements is very interesting because and I see differently maybe from how the question of entanglements is very interesting because and I see differently maybe from how the questions you are posing.

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Yeah, yeah, no, the question of entanglements is very interesting because and I see differently maybe from how the questions you are posing is very interesting because and I see differently maybe from how the questions of entanglements is very interesting and I see differently maybe from how the questions you're posing because the localization of Christianity depends on pagan

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traditions, and I see differently maybe from how the questions you're posing because the localization of Christianity depends on pagan traditions.

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Actually rest on pagan notions. So there's that entanglement. In Ententment, Nonetheless, that was devastated because it destroyed pagan traditions, knocked them down.

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As Christianity appropriated its concepts, its language to make itself. Accessible, legible to the local communities.

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And so there's that's this sort of ententment I see. But also one can speak about entangled. So yes, no.

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So what can speak better about entanglements in the sense that Christianity itself has not. Is already entangled with, you know, with But it sucks to destroy.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Thank you very much. Do you have a question? You're welcome. Just so that the people online can hear. My apologies.

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I wanted to come up with early enough kind of feel bad for asking a question. My apologies I wanted to come up with early enough kind of feel bad for asking a question if I wasn't here for the session my name is Trevor.

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1 one thing that kind of interests me, because I went out when I looked at the, you know, at your topic.

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I was, I was interested by the word pagan. You know, and so you seem to have an interesting way that you're using the concept.

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And I just wanted to, you just mentioned it that you were quite intentional about it and again excuse me if you have said that already but maybe for my benefit if you can maybe just say one or 2 what would have been an alternative word because as you know these concepts because At face value, it's rather pejorative.

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So, so if you are saying that almost if you want to make inroads I think concepts matter and so I just wanted to get a sense, what's the rationale for using that?

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And again, my apologies if you've already mentioned this, but also what would other potential concepts, were there other placeholders that you could have used instead of pagan?

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Because pagan is almost like click baiting and say pagan or whatever, people will come.

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And so I was just thinking about that. Is it intentional and what informed it and were there other possibilities?

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Thank you so much. Okay. No, it says so, but you need the mic.

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Yes, no, thank you for that question. Yes, I used to deliberately intentionally knowing that there's a baggage and I'm prepared to take that baggage head on.

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But I think, and I think there's a wider conversation we could have about the question you ask.

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But I think the most what informed what was the rationale for me? Is the fact that I have been doing some reading on ancient Egypt.

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And I was surprised at how at the ease at which ancient forms of religion in Egypt were come were referred to as pagan.

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It was not seen as a there was no negative connotation about it and I loved that and that's why II went back to appropriate the concept of taking because I thought it's been there before.

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It had positive connotations at some point. And so that's really the rationale. But I think we can have some further.

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You have 1 min, sorry. Thank you very much. I've been told our time is up.

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Can see the contribution by Charles and Pundy. You just also see that often indigenous traditions tamper Christian and Islamic traditions.

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But thank you very much. Often the indigenous traditions temper Christian and Islamic. Traditions.

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But, but anyway, thank you very much for a very engaging and stimulating session. I appreciate all your contributions.

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Alright, thank you to our Take support.