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8 30.

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Well, good morning, everyone. I am Salvo Rilla Lotus, your chair impromptu or as I said earlier your chair on demand because the original chair could not be here with us.

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Welcome to everyone who is online. We have a powerful set of presentations for presentations that were scheduled at presentations plus a fifth distributed paper.

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The author happens to be here. So we're gonna have her presentation as well. Each presenter will take 15 min and that will give us ample time for conversation.

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It's a pleasure to have you here and without much delay I want to Introduce the first presenter.

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Cutarat Loosa go along. Suezerak Musica Wang and she will take the podium now.

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Power Plan. That's a website. No, yeah, yeah, okay, thank you. Thank you so much.

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Thank you so much. So I've been told I have 15 min. I'm going to try to stick to time.

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At in Thailand and I have been working with a migrant working group based in Thailand which is an NGO and also Tamiko Robinson at Han Young University of the School of Education.

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And you can see the title of our talk here. And I wanted to walk through some of the dilemmas that we've been having.

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I'm sorry, I can't seem to go to the next slide. So just just so you know a little bit more about Thailand, we're landlocked in Southeast Asia we have a lot of border crossings especially with the military coup in Myanmar.

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There's been a lot of influx and we're both ascending country and a receiving country when it has to do with migrants, both refugees and Also, especially with migrant workers.

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Close to 4 million workers. This is both undocumented and documented. In Thailand, reforms have happened over and over again, and these reforms are not necessarily to have any long term vision, but to fix problems.

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So there's been a regularization of complex. Processes in which undocumented workers are put into the system.

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These are extremely costly and procedural, often mediated by brokers, employer deductions, which is legal in Thailand, and of course corruption.

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So our main research questions was, what is the role of the university in micro worker rights agendas and what are our limitations?

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How can international partnerships play a role in shifting toward alternative-inclusive politics in the space of the university, co-participation and advocacy and capacity building in education.

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So this is just some of the readings that help inform our thinking. It's not all of it.

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It's just kind of a select bibliography and it spans from public health sectors because we do M and E monitoring evaluation training.

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To things that are more around theory of change, particularly action research, things like that. And happy to show the powerpoint with anybody if they email me.

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And I just to overview the landscape in Thailand, there's mainly 2 research in Thailand, there's mainly 2 research institutes in the Thailand.

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There's mainly 2 research institutes in the country that do migration studies in the country that do migration studies and IPSR has been there.

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The landscape for migrant worker research in Thailand has been dominated by agendas by funders like I/O, IOM, UN agencies, and a lot of these are subcontracting out to universities and then hence we subcontract out in order to access field sites, right, with the various

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CSOs. So this gives you kind of like a quick timeline. At the same time, we also have, we just had elections.

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Thank goodness. We have long, so many coups over like, I don't know, over like 20 coups and so we've primarily been military regime.

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And that's affected a lot of academic freedoms. So NRIS, the transition during the last military regimes has pushed national funding toward academics serving ministries.

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And that's changed a lot of the landscape to think about, well, how do we work with ministries and how do we work with the business sector.

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And the other aspect that's changed in the past few years is this thing about university world rankings.

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KPIs on being serving the public so it's at the same time very contradictory right when you're under authoritarian regimes and you're trying to serve the public and do human rights, things like that.

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Anyway, this is the migration research Asia MMC joint researchingism Mahidon Migration Centre, a joint research unit.

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And the website is here. We just started a year ago. So the MMC has been around longer, but the institutionalised, concretized, university funded.

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Aspects have just started. And so we want to think about open access to data, both quantitative and qualitative at the same time shifting media agendas and framings.

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And we have a series of different activities. So I'll just take you through it. If you just go to the events, we have policy dialogues.

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Trainings and workshops like I just mentioned monitoring evaluation and migrant worker public health and we partner with CSOs, local CSOs to build their capacities as well as our students to eventually hopefully have internship with them or something like that.

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We also have, it's not quite an annual conference, like a bi-annual conference and then we have a Wednesday, Southey Station Mobility Seminar.

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So these are some of the activities and their databases really going around to think about research in terms of public facing and we have research briefs, policy brief.

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These are 2 3 pages and the audience is really multilingual so we have some in Thai Burmese and this is the English public facing and it's for journalists to use.

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And our CSO partners, we also link with them. And. Some of it this is co-produced like this.

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This one on the impact of Thai government's microworker Amnesty program is co-produced What Micrant Working Group and you can see we also on another link we have the database available for people to access and use about how much people actually paid for that.

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I am looking now for the PowerPoint. I want to go back to the PowerPoint. Return to session display.

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I don't know. I'm sorry.

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Sorry, just has to reload. Okay, great. So going back to this. So we just had our monitoring evaluation program and it's like a certificate program.

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I think it was like 35 h. And Rok Thai who's been around for a long time but they worked in partnership with a Ministry of Public Health.

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And other NGOs based in various provinces and we featured the Ministry of Public Health, Director of Rayang province, which is a major seaport and as some of you may know, Thailand also sources the world's seafood industry.

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So this is incredibly important. We were ranked rather low. On the trafficking report because of incidences of serious labor abuses on the trafficking report because of incidences of serious labor abuses on fishing vessels.

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And some of the seafood goes to various US corporations and European corporations, frozen seafood industry is huge.

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In any case, we also partnered with Gemnet Public Health. So it was a way to bring in public health sector.

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So this is on shifting the media frames and one of the things we thought we could do is focus on graduating seniors at the top universities that go on to be journalists.

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And we did a focus on the seafood sector. Partnering with NGOs like Environmental Justice Foundation, which is based in UK, but they have a Thailand office.

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Wrapped high and This is another aspect we've done with the policy dialogues and we did fishery sector agricultural sector, what site visit, and we tried to encourage the government officers to go with us to the site visit.

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Of course they didn't go. But they did come to the meeting and then they quickly left after lunch.

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I mean, I'm already telling you some of the limitations of kind of buy-in and how do you get people to the limitations of kind of buy-in and how do you get people to the table.

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You can't use theory of change when people are in adversarial relationships, NGOs, you can't use theory of change when people are in adversarial relationships, NGOs, were making accusatory comments at the policy dialogue, and it's quite difficult to have dialogue when you're really kind

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of not happy with each other. So, in any case, I think what we were able to accomplish was a closer connection to some of the NGOs and CSOs and they turned around and we started to, I think we had 3 or 4 engagements with some of them before they turned around and started to ask us for

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things. So for example, one micro worker rights network said we really need to access our longshoremen they're really far away in a province Can you come up with a grant to help us do that with your research team so that we can do case intakes.

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Plus, we want to fund a migrant worker rights workshop. Can you do that for us? And of course I said yes and without thinking I don't have the money yet.

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So this is always the dilemma I think with activists minded or you know when we do co-participation and how do we make it sustainable?

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How do we keep it going and also how do we get our colleagues who might not necessarily be invested in some of this.

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To turn around and really see the value in it and participate in a meaningful way. So as well as to get our students.

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To be much more interested in it. So I think that this is a list of some of the accomplishments that I believe that we were able to kind of think through together is with this new government, there might be an opening up on rethinking inbound and outbound migration policy.

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So IPSR is for populations and social research partnering with Micrant Working Group, we're trying to come up with an agenda on, Quick.

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Kind of studies. And kind of policy proposals. So I do work in Taiwan. South Korea, US, as well as in Thailand.

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So I worked with the ILO on agricultural migrant workers. And so what we're trying to do is think about also different models for multi-employers in the agricultural sector which is currently illegal in Thailand but everybody does it and people get fined and it's a horrible system.

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So we're looking to places like Finland to kind of think through those systems and then the limitations of like, oh, every 4 years, every 3 years, you have to renew your work permeates.

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Incredibly costly. It's a broker industry aspect that can't be overcome. What if we turn to Taiwan and see, oh you can't like 12 years without leaving the country, Really trying to think through internationally about some of these solutions and this is only possible through our international partnerships.

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And this is only possible through our international partnerships and this is only possible through our international partnerships and doing this is only possible through our international partnerships and doing research internationally too. Change our health registration system.

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You know, Thailand has universal health care coverage, supposedly, so this is another aspect. Well, how do we integrate migrant workers, whether they're documented or undocumented into that system.

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And really thinking about how do we help capacity building because Freedom Fun left Thailand, so a lot of the anti trafficking funds that are going through some of these organisations are no longer there and how do we help build that gap?

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So I'm going to just kind of end on that positive note about the hope that's there for the place of the university in directing change.

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So thanks so much and I look forward to any of your questions and I have much more to say but I just want to cut it short.

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Thanks so much.

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Stuff. It takes

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Sure. Our next breath, we have a first great presentation and it needs to be followed by Hilda Weckman.

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We had a first great presentation and it used to be followed by Hilda Wekman. Hilda, are you there?

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Yes, I'm here.

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Okay, we're gonna start the PowerPoint now. And you'll have the floor.

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Okay, thank you. So first, good body here in the zoo is good evening. I hope.

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Give us 1 s because we need to find you on the

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His sh. So we need to see her.

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Have you found me?

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My camera for me is working.

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Your camera is not working. First step. Okay.

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Okay.

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Go ahead.

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My presentation is not here.

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Yeah.

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We'll say share my screens. It is.

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You can share your screen.

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Okay.

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Okay, yeah, I hope it not, but okay. None of them. Let me see.

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Or a point. Can you see the PowerPoint that way? Oh, she's sharing. I, yeah, that's it.

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Hey, she sharing.

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It's okay like this. Oh no.

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Yeah, that is. Thank you so much.

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Okay. And so I'd like to think for the opportunity of talking. I'm talking in the name of a group.

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Of the laboratory for territorial justice and also for a larger research group. This is a national research.

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Project among universities from Brazil in France. And what we would like to talk has some connections from the previous presentation because you are talking about a co production of the city as an academic activity.

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White B. What I do like to present is the experience we have in communities in Stafford region of the city of San Paolo in Brazil.

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To do so, I will talk. Very quickly about the expense, about the experience of the territory as an academic activity, what we call popular extinction.

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That is, based on the ideas of popular education from Paolo Ferdi. And now some financial research from Michelle Di.

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When do we talk about a exchange and production of knowledge between individuals from the university and also what we call pop Do you spoke to the widows that are built in the city without formal prohibition?

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Are built by the people. And first. We have received that. The Labzoute, the laboratory for territory justice has specific futures because we do not make physical intervations most of our partners do.

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Because they are at research groups we try to think about and learn about and teach about the editorial justice.

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This is a process that we enhance the the distribution of we call the editorial opportunities. The set of physical environment and material and immaterial elements.

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That are produced in the territories, socially produces, but are not eco in in the city.

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Okay. Okay.

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And we aim to produce knowledge about which mechanisms with process have the power to We enhance the editorial opportunities as part of social environment justice because in Brazil as I think everybody knows we have a very unequal society and also a very omnipotent world with And so, and we must say that extension in Brazil is a law obligation.

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the constitutional demands that the university produces this extra activities as the university activities that we call extension works. But what people understand by that is very different.

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It's different within Brazil. Because there are some institutions that think that there is an opportunity to make to make money and is also different within the institution.

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We as group believe in popular education. That is that's a aims to producing more democratic a society.

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I also never separates the contents of the teaching from the value of reality. This is very important.

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We want not just to share knowledge, but while we won't ask the people to think. By themselves.

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And also we I'll watch that the people from these but spits as equal. And there is because the, has members from the popular territories that are not academic as part of the researches that they are called the popular researchers.

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And this is very important because This difference makes what we can do from difference. And even when have a if not very favored a context.

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We have just just emerge for a very terrible political moment from the zeal. And even so we continue our activities.

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Okay. Okay.

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Okay.

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And. Our project that works with urban co production that also has a very precise definition. In Brazil in in Copolis, we understand the Urban co-production as a action.

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There's all night as many execution on many actors. But specifically a connection that's and initiated by the, We want to know how so what's the university in such contexts.

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To present what we can do in such contexts in such process that are autonomous from the people who want to present the case in case the study from the community from Jaden I voted that it is in Brazil.

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We have a map to show it and also in the South region of Sao Paulo. The self invasion of Sao Paulo is the ultimate front for urban expansion.

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It has yet many rural areas many areas they are from the and also a expanding areas for illegal occupation.

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Mostly because there are the water and reservoirs from the Audi Metropolitan Mission of Stampaolo.

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And from the beginning, from this century, they had increased in the land of patients of the city. Jing, I waters is one of the occupations.

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Okay.

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We call it young oak patients because they have meanless from 50 years. And it has a long history.

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From violence and it has begun on the 8,006 in 2,007 it was very violent. Evacuated.

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The houses were burning. The people were brutalised by the police. They are scattered throughout other occupations.

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They receive a minimal amount for money from the That's only for 3 months. And then they are all like alone.

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To fight for their lives. And because of that, they with the units in 2,015 and today you have we have it 2,050 families there.

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And this area is also. Maintain it by the municipality to tribute social housing but not for these people.

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And these people, they are going to be evacuated again and go someplace else. To build social housing for people, their heads, they come from other areas.

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And we have begun this joint work because people invited us to go there. The Labrador is a very right now means group in Sao Paulo for.

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And because of that they search us. And only we have to initiate the work into 2,008, 2,019.

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18, not a 19. In the partnership with the Talman College from the University of Michigan.

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And we have work that. And until today for many, master work doctorwards, PhD researches, extension works and today you are there with the What we do there is mostly this kind of help in the immobilization because the community growth rate is very Hi, because of that people has have not yet this mobilized this

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Okay.

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group. A consciousness and the leaders from the community they are there they ask us to help they we have making history from the community.

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We have helped the founding from the Residents Association. We have also helped them to participate in larger encounters.

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We also help them to participate in larger encounters. We also provide help for these encounters. We also provide help for these encounters.

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We also provide help for these encounters. We also provide help for these encounters that we also provide help for these encounters that the name name it's the encounters from these lumps and the occupation is a cell They add very importance because people perceive that they are not in the occupation they illegal occupation because they are lazy

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Okay.

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or because they have had something wrong, but because they have had something wrong, but because they are excluded from the society.

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And we also help then in participation institutional meetings because if they at go there alone, the municipality don't listen to them.

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Unless they go with the university, then the municipality treat them as humans on this as citizens. This is very, very important to them.

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Because also part of the culture in Brazil make these loans. And where is this and also the land of patient residents should be criminals?

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Even if they are 50% of the city. And so, er, to conclude, I must say I have no idea if I have, er, how much time I'm talking.

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And, we, like to, to join this show on this thing is the popular extension as a co production of knowledge because for us the extension work begins by a conflict normally people have some comfort they are afraid to get evacuated, they they want to improve, they think their rights are not respected.

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They are not. And because of that they search for help. From the Labrador presents this help as a academic group.

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And because we believe, and this is also in discussing the Brazilian, that the university has a political and also an exciting role.

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And our presence in these territories is a political chose by us, activists in mind. And but also a strategic of methodology.

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Because we think. That the information, the knowledge that we learn being there, during this work. Knowledge that we cannot achieve by other means.

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Now so we have deceived that we can do this because people trust us. We they trust us because we are there for years not they will not go there on the research and then go out.

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Many people in Brazil also from these communities we we feel should be part of a research because they say we are not REDs for laboratory.

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And because we are there for so many time and they trust us. So we understand. That's, this people are, subjects.

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They are not, some objects that we researched. They are not someone that we need to help because they are poor, but they are they are parts.

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Subjects of the research. As we got. So, yeah, we create this extension as a cognizant situation.

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This is a team also from, that says that this possibility of meeting brings up opportunity for dialogue between the knowledge from the academy and the opportunity for dialogue between the knowledge from the academy and also the popular knowledge, the things they know that we don't know a mini why they are there, which are the process, they bring them there.

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And this is very important when we understand that the education most. And, at the development of actions that promotes the editorial justice.

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Is the principle from the our group. And on that, so we believe as Floriston Ferdinand is this is saying, in Brazil say that what is done at the university if it has no meaning for change the society in Brazil is a debt fee.

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And they realized, we want that our group is alive, not dead. And that's the why we chose.

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To act like this. And also you must say that our research is very practical, very practical because Every day there is a conflict every day somebody calls because they are afraid because they are gaming, brutalized because their rights are not being respected.

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And we have little time to reflect on what we do. So this article, this research, the Copolis, is an opportunity for us to think.

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Why we do and what that means. So that's why. I said that if anybody wants to.

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To bring some, remarks, some help for us that will be very, very welcomed.

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So I would like to finish my presentation. I hope. I have not talked too much. I hope you have understand me because I'm talking here.

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In very poor environments. And this is my email. Thank you.

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Thank you so much. H that would you be able to stay with us for the whole session?

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Maybe.

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Oh, I'm hoping so.

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Okay. Thank you so much.

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For those of you who have joined us online, please make sure that you mute your mics so that we make sure that we can only hear.

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The person presenting.

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Yeah, the next presenter is gonna be other quota freight

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Thank you. Well, with this question, sorry, I have to share this screen here.

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Planet. Sorry. I have to.

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Here you go.

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Stuff cheering. Other than that.

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Or the PANTasha. Okay. Thank you.

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Here we go.

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Thank you very much. My presentation is a knowledge cover production between university research teams and high school teachers, educational inclusion, peace building and citizenship in secondary schools.

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In Metropolitan area of Buenos Aires and Managing. But I did, wrong.

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Yeah, this is bigger.

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Put this year. Thank you.

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Okay.

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This one.

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No.

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Okay. Well, this is a research done in 4 secondary schools. 2 in Argentina, in the Greater Buenos Aires, and the other in the city of Melejin in Colombia.

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Secondary location has been the focus of numerous debates and research in recent decades in Latin America following an increase in the years of compulsory schooling in several countries.

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Despite the effort of public policy, the right to the education and this traditional selective level, the high school remains of support to the universalization of secondary education persists.

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In this frame we think our research team in, in, in, in, in, in, in Belgium.

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And we think that the vision of schools take hold in regarding this process of schools stakeholding regarding this process of educational expansion regarding this process of educational expansion, guarantee of educational rights.

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And the strategies they developed at the institutional level become very important and there are they are related in the related aspects.

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So we organized this international collaborative research carried out by 2 teams of university researcher and secondary school teachers, one in the metropolitan area of Buenos Aires and the other in managing Colombia.

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Our objective or the project objective was reconstructing and analyzing through their narratives the experience that teachers and students develop around a creative enclosure and peace building in high schools that serve young people in situations of social territorial surrogation in those.

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To see this. The purpose was to reconstruct the different representation at the school actors on these 2 concepts to generate no knowledge about institutional strategies developed on these issues and the institutional strategies developed on these issues and to identify problematic strategies developed on these issues and to identify problematic aspects to improve problematic aspects to improve in order to collaboratively design

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intervention. Well, the 2, concepts we are, working with are polysymic concept.

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There is no one on an only understanding of what educational and only understanding of what educational and also social inclusion means an only understanding of what educational and also social inclusion means and the same form of what educational and also social inclusion means and the same for educational and social inclusion means and the same for this building.

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In particular, the concept of educational inclusion was initially linked to the same for this building. In particular, the concept of educational inclusion was initially linked to education rights of people with disabilities.

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And in particular, the concept of educational inclusion was initially linked to education rights of people with disabilities.

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And in some places it is still the idea of educational inclusion was initially linked to education rights of people with disabilities.

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And in some places it is still the idea of educational inclusion that And this, after work after this concept was in complex it was more complex at first appropriated by UNESCO as an analytical regulatory framework for educational rights.

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And today there is a discussion that Inclusion has to do with multiple axis of exclusion and discrimination, social class, gender, and ethnicity, territory, etc.

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It also has to be with student engagement and participation and autonomy. Well, so it's a debate and there are many forms to understand the concept and that was what we wanted to see to study among teachers and among students because we understand with all that the school is a complex universe, a complex institution with different ideologies and

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conceptions. And the same. Whoop. And the same with a B construction with a piece building up or construction of peace.

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This concept was they brought the magazine team brought the concept to us. Because it has to be with the social environment, the social context of Colombia and all they are always in war.

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So it was very important for that and but we think that the experience of Biolist, aiolence is common in Latin America when Argentina had the dictatorship in the in the seventys and eightys.

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And in a school it meant to do a change from the disciplining idea to a democratic coexistent in the school and democratic construction of regulations in school.

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So this was well, something about the Metal mythology. We also think to build Wellitative approach of course but in a interpretive critical perspective because on one side our perspective was hermeneutic because we wanted to build narratives.

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But in the other side, there was an element of action research, of change in reality in this case in the school.

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We work at with and we were we wanted teachers some of the teachers to be involved as a researcher.

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We working in 2 schools in each city as I said before. In Argentina, the schools and they attended or had students.

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From sectors in poverty and territorial segregation. And there were schools that characterized for an active search for strategies to ensure, and ensure compliance with the right to education.

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He was very active and involved. Staff of teachers in this school in Nageena. And in Colombia, the the strategy was a little bit different.

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They, they worked together with the secretary of education at the city and because of that and the demand for them they decided to choose 2 schools one similar to Argentinas.

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Not in involvement of the of the teachers though and the other from a upper high class from from high class.

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Private high-glass

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Wink corporate 2. A 2 or 3 teachers per school into the research team. We made the first training in in the concepts, in the theoretical discussion of the concept and also a methodological training.

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You seen before pandemic Skype because we were in 2 different cities but the training was some some in charge of Argentina.

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A team and some in charge of The machine team but for all participants. For that collection technique we use Playfoot Cative Workshop with a building to a which are pitted to different expressive language and participatory technique.

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We worked with image, photography, social cartography, preparing questionnaires, the same people in the school prepare question it and carried out a journalistic interview.

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The students, meegro stories and stories of experience. We made 3 worship with teacher and fight with students in each school.

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One thing to reflect are the condition of possibility of this methodology. In Argentina we could do that because of the commitment of director and teacher who made up the research team and the participation of teachers in the school was voluntary.

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They wanted to go. Okay, I'm ready. There were therefore time limits. In Colombia, the possibility to make this agreement with the possibility to make this agreement with the Secretary of Education made the possibility to make this agreement with the Secretary of Education made the process easier.

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Well. What to say about results because I don't have more time. I'm going.

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Okay, well something very brief about the results. Very, very. Well, we saw about educational inclusion, this multiple meanings of the term that were reflected in our data.

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And

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But we, we also saw a difference between Argentina and Colombia. Both in elementary school and in some Argentine teachers the original definition of inclusion as integration of a student with different abilities persists.

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So they talk about a special provision element to facilitate the access. In the Argentine schools, in the narratives of Argentina school, it is central, the link between inclusion and guarantee of rights.

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Education and in particular social in general. And it is association associated with the exercise of social rights. And the institution of right when they are violated.

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We saw things in common in the 3 schools that serve sectors in poverty. They were in project with the local community aimed at improving the living condition of its inhabitants.

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Many of them relatives of the students. In Argentina, it is also a debate about the risk that the idea of an inclusive school becomes a level that depends in equality and generates the constitution of a segregated educational thing.

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There is a reflection among the teachers, especially the teacher. Well, there's something there in the student was.

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I think that was a surprise for us is the inclusion of gender diversity as an issue that appears in all the schools.

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Even the private Catholic school in Columbia, which were accompanying a process of gender change of one student.

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So I think it was striking for us that part because it is a common understanding that inclusion has also to be with gender interest.

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Well, and generally, but especially in Argentina, there is a growing notion that inclusion has to be with attention to diversity.

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In all these access we you I talked before.

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Well, the piece I am gonna skip the piece part because I don't have time so you have an idea of the project.

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If you have questions, you can. And so I jump to the conclusion.

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We saw 2 different national contents. We saw common elements as I said before we saw common elements as I said before but also different national differences related to common elements as I said before but also different national differences related to the particular history of each country.

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Established the compulsory nut nature of the complete secondary level. And this put in focus the analysis and policy to search for a strategy to achieve.

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Not only access but completion of the level. Instead in Colombia, has been crosses broad debates about the quality and the implementation of different policies articulated in the general education law.

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The intervention in the mechanism of a collusion at segregation has not yet been sufficiently placed in the public agenda.

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And this was reflected in the schools. As I said, the action in our schools are daughter of this national education law.

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They were created after this legislation as part of this policy and they in the narratives the stories of action predominates.

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The teachers and also the students talking about what they do in the school for inclusion for build peace. For building peace.

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There are important similarities between the problems around inclusion and peace identified in Argentina and Colombia in the schools that serve sector of poverty what varies are the action developed to deal with them.

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And in Columbia, there are important differences in the narrative of teacher and student of the public school and the private school.

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A We saw it identify also of capacities in best invisible of Natasha's effect to improve.

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And we saw the contrapposition between the emphasis that teacher put on project and special activities. And the students talk about philanthropy, pedagogical practices in the school.

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They refer that peace and also inclusion are built in the ways in which the teaching explain, they want they to repeat the explanation, they want respect the word toward the production of students.

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And they also talk about the Megro-stigmatization that occurs in the in the classroom.

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The maker exclusions in the in the links between students and teachers and also among students. And there is also a skepticism on the part of the student in relation to the effectiveness of collective decision space.

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Construction. And regarding the experience of action research, both the teacher participated in in the research team and those participate in the workshop and also the student value the experience as a possibility for learning.

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And for situated reflection. Well, thank you very much.

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All right, everyone. I have to click on. Have to keep on thinking.

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How about what you want to do? No, no. Very Yes. All right, so I am going to Read my presentation both because I get they're nervous also because I want to keep it to 12 min because I really want to have a conversation with all of you.

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I'm really excited about your papers. Thank you to the organizers of the panel. I'm going to be quite informal.

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Because I think what I'm what I'm hoping to do is provide one experience of what I consider to have been a fruitful academic activist collaboration.

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And if there is no conceptual learning from the experience. I hope that there is an idea here or there that helps you think about how to engage with quote unquote diverse communities in your communities.

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I want to stress that these and all of the images that are here are publicly available on the internet and often distributed by this much more Celi school members in Buenos Aires.

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And I'll talk a little bit about the background. First, because, presenting at a panel.

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On collaborative research and education I want to make sure that some of the terms that are used in Latin America are clear to people.

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But if you would at least notice the second point, oftentimes Tarvesti gets translated as transvestite in the northern construct and it's a very different idea.

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A lot of SD identity from a transvestite experience of gender expression or desire. So I always make that.

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Make sure that that's known also we have activists like Lana Wearkins whose picture there who always forged the V to think about Ravesti and the V to insert Travesti narratives in issues of social inequality and structural.

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In aabilities to get formal economy jobs.

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Plug. I want to make sure that you learn about the queer America's working group. In Spanish is the group at Travao Feminista I queer, The Las Americas.

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It's a group that works to build south-south relationships where the northeast not often interfering or creating knowledge production using the South as a kind of laboratory for ethnographic research.

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While I am presenting my ideas and my experience working for 5 years with Muja Seles, I am in conversation with members who are in Latin America, in Europe and in the US who are engaged with this.

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Working group and if you're curious there's both a a Facebook page and an actual web page.

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With some information. This is a quick outline of what I plan to do. What ends up happening when I'm presenting about Tarvisi education in Argentina is that I spent half of the talk giving background on historical relevant aspects and then content so that's going to happen but I'm going to move fast through some

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of the earlier points.

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Main objective of this talk is to be able to highlight how there are possibilities for collaborative work among activist community members and academics.

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But I also want to say something that shouldn't be provocative to those in the audience, both online and in person, which is that Collaborations with non-echanics are always already extractivist, right?

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So I am presenting at an international conference and I'm adding a to my veto. And in the meantime, we have trans activists who have been expelled from their homes, who face bullying, homophobia from the family, from the schools and these are some of the life expectancy and health and leaving experiences.

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For a lot of the structural aspects that trans women in particular experience, not just in Argentina but in general.

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And so to lie to ourselves and say that this is not a power-in balanced relationship, it's unfair to the communities that we work with.

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But I'm happy to talk about that in the Q&A.

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I became involved as part of this. Because I was I had the resources to be able to come from the United States to Argentina twice a year for 5 years and sort of in a serendipity way the editor of the university a offered Julian Martin as a colleague of mine from American and I to edit this book, which I'm going to talk

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about. That's one of the outcome or products of our engagement, but I want to also speak mostly to the processes that led us to to a book.

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And the title is Teravare and here's some of the translation as to what that means.

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That is, that is, of course, alluded before with Lona Americans.

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I'll give a little bit of historical context to the Vajiratos Popolaris, which Avachiro Popula is a high school that's not in a typical secretary of education or Department of Education format.

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And they happen to take place around the same time as there was an economy crisis late 19 nineties, 2,000. 2,001.

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And It is my understanding that President Nestor Kishner and then Christina Fernandeza Kishner who succeeded him supported this community efforts.

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So there was a really important area that first decade of the 20 first century where they had a lot of resources and benefited from support from this state.

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Of course, besides the notion of Bacheroto Popularis, which is something community driven and not driven by the state and curriculum designed by the state, although always in conversation with the state and with teachers that are trained by the state.

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It becomes about in some ways making education. Democratic and having people intervene and interrogate some of the tenants of the traditional location that they get in this case at trans Tarvestes school.

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So Pacheratos populators are not specific to transport. It's my main point.

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The law of same-sex marriage and then the gender identity law in 2,012 were laws that were critical to how.

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This generated the opportunity for a high school like La Mojavellis to emerge. I'm going to talk about the gender identity law, sharing some basic info for you.

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Here we see, Christina Fernandez a Kishner the former president and then we also see to your right, benefited from the gender identity law.

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It was the first of its kind in the world to allow for folks to self-identify without having to use medical, curvature or surgery transitional aspects.

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So by self-definition, the law would allow people to Be recognized by the gender identity that I saw themselves to be.

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And then here's also some other background. We see the Azerbaijan who's an activist who was killed in 2,015.

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Again, we can see in Fernandez a Kictionary. Lana Weark is in the middle and then Maoroka Ral, a trans male activist, an intersex activist from Argentina actually from Cornwall.

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All right, so I'll give you a little bit of background to the vajiratova so that you get a sense of how the Bachi RATO operate it.

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The Perito Axi L in the Sasha Ulkomiad is the label that is used as a technical degree.

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And.

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The cohorts are usually 25 to 30 students per year. Classes are held in the afternoon or evenings most of the trans people trans women in particular that participate of the school in the Montrealis are forced to or choose to engage in prostitution.

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Most of them have no other choice but prostitution. So they work late in the evening and into the morning.

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They sleep during the morning during the day and then they come in the afternoon classes are usually 3 to 7 pm and that's when we would go to the school.

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What I, what I think it's key about what the school is doing is that The government changed the requirements of there's now a quote unquote quota where 1% of the employees by their government need to be trans or tremendously identified and in that sense the school is now creating a school to formal formal employment pipeline that wasn't existing

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before.

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And there's some of the courses. There's a tension that I might not have time to talk about now, but we could talk about it in the Q&A in terms of always having an academic director that's a trans woman but the director of the school itself is a cis gender gay man.

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And these are some again other images that are in the social media produced by the activist. And I always share them to think about.

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The ways in which they cleared quote unquote the curriculum to think about their relationship to the state and education itself.

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This is also an image from a book that was published. The fact that trans students see people like themselves teaching them creates really a powerful dynamic for the trans women in particular who attend.

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Okay, so now I'm getting to the Meet of the. Experience that I had.

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I want to, if anything, my contribution is I want us to think about the steps between a collaborative engagement and collaborative knowledge making and I will talk about that in brief.

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But to be succent. We were engaged in technical assistance and training for the organization so that they could develop a new vision and training for the organization so that they could develop a new vision and objective mission so that they could develop a new vision and objective mission and go through the vision and objective mission and go through the organisation and that meant going

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to the organization and goes for the organisation and that meant going to classrooms and talking to students, faculty and staff.

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Supported the movie Trans script transcription of a movie that was part of a fundraiser for the group.

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Pulina Martinez works in the Spanish department. So we ended up actually getting students. To be involved.

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Helped in the process of analysis for a book that not the book that I showed you that we edited but a separate book that was based on interviews and surveys and that the students from the Mochaselis were the researchers, were members of the research team.

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And also worked connecting them with other organizations that were involved in the book. But the part that I think it's most important that I wanna be able to talk about is Besides being able to be part of some of the events I was again privileged enough to be able to go to the first graduation in December.

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And then be engaged in.

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Conversing with faculty members about resources and readings for the teaching. The book was published. We were able to publish A history of the Montreal is not just the individual narratives of of the book.

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And the other aspect that's really important and that's to your right is that the ISBN which I always forget.

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The international standard book number. Is a registry with the state. We were able to secure that the 33 contributors to the book appeared recognized by the state as authors.

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That may not mean a lot to people who are in academia, but it means a lot to community members to be able to own.

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A product that they were a part of. And the other thing that I didn't mention in the PowerPoint is that the book is freely available online.

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So if you go to the website from the press they actually have a copy of the book. So we were able to negotiate things that go beyond the sort of traditional academic path.

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Of neoliberal universities demands for a faculty. And last we were able to also fundraise so that folks were connected to at least one student who was the president of the student union came to one of the events with the Latin American Studies Association, but also once the book came out we were able to quote unquote tour the book

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in Mexico and other places. There were some challenges and part of it is we were both non-unarinians.

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Julia Martinez is Colombian and I, Puerto Rican. So we were also not trans or involved in being doing work with communities when you're not a member of the community poses extra challenges that we were able to navigate and work through but also understanding what it meant to be part of our community that was

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constantly excluded and recognising that we were part of the problem, right? There's also the history and the tensions within the community.

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There was a split between the founders of the Mochaseles in 2,000 12,011 and then the group that leads at now and there's of course depending on who you talk to in the community you get to see either the wrath or or the love for the people involved in the school and we were

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also again sort of engaged with that. And also. We were trying to support the school. We did, like I said, a strategic planning assessment, things to document, to be placed on the website so that funders could look at it.

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But the school and administration was not engaged in making those things come through. So like we put in a lot of labor and I think part of the experience of doing this kind of work is to be able to think about once you put the labour into community you need to let it go because you are engaged in processes that they determine and we were often

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reminded about the fact that we were visitors right to the fact that we were visitors, and as collaborators, as visitors, a role was secondary to the needs of the community.

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So if, and as collaborators, as visitors, a role was secondary to the needs of the community.

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So if anything, I think that, a role was secondary to the needs of the community. So if anything, I think that thinking about that toolkit of the community's.

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So if anything, I think that thinking about that toolkit of the community's needs and what's at their disposal and then enhancing those needs is what's at their disposal and then enhancing those needs is what's most important and one of the things that I learned.

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One very important lesson

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And now we will have One of the authors for the distributed papers Robert

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Okay, thank you. Hello everybody. I'm going to present briefly a jointly written paper Thanks, produced by myself together with Len at the bottom Fernandez from the University of Barcelona and Roger at Camp, the Padros Circle from the University of Gerona.

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So we jumped to Europe in another international contest. But what I'm going to present is, we jump to Europe in another international contest.

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But what I'm going to present is a close to other project we already listened to. So the main object of our presentation, deals with inclusion and fostering social cohesion among, migrants in several, European countries and, beyond.

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And we may focus on education activities and try to, improve, skills, among, migrant, children, their, parents, and, the, all, education, and, environment, working, on, the, 8, life, long, learning, competences, that, you, can, see, on, the, one, side, of, this, light, and,

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we, social, cohesion and, working against, stereotypes and, discriminations as well.

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And we spoke about a new learning method which has been developed throughout different steps. First of all, we set up body pairs within in schools and out schools.

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This is one of the key important issues in the project because we want to work not only in institutional educational environment but also in non-formal and informal educational environments which could be for instance refugee camps or associations working with migrants in improving intercultural dialogue.

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So the idea is to set up pairs a kind of bad body system composed of one migrant and one local student or at all center of teeth, then they move to the to the next step and they try to learn thanks to several learning units devoted to the different 8 lifelong learning competences and this learning unit has been translated

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in 13 different languages and they are available on an online platform. The next step after learning something about contents they learn something about how to manage PowerPoint, how to manage podcasts in terms of how to display what they will learn because in the subsequent step the pairs should become creator.

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They are to develop new contests for their core peers because in biological terms it's supposed that the learning process should work very well.

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And then we move to the last step that is with the peer for peer knowledge transfer. Of course when we develop such project where to build in mind several warnings.

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First of all, not all the learning contests share the same conditions. So we need to bear in mind several context context variables or several limits we can encounter and we have also different context variables or several limits we can encounter and we have also different training opportunities and different level of training or different level of knowledge among teachers and educators about the different

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competences and of course we have a structural conditions on macro levels that can affect what we want to do or what we want to pursue in terms of educational success among different migrant children.

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So of course it is a crucial to work throughout the monitoring and the impact evaluation. It is a very important topic.

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If we wanted to go ahead and terms of policy transferability and in terms of share what we did and what we found in a different such economical, cultural contests.

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And of course we can monitor it first and then we subsequent to foster impact evaluation according international shared criteria.

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Maybe I don't have so much time to go into that for showing the results. But just very briefly to say that we collect a lot of qualitative chips, a lot of ethnographic notes along the developing of our activities.

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And we organize our data according to the SWOT schemes try to better understand to understand the learning contents work, the capacity building effect and the pilot phase as a all should be developed.

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Of course we, got several, good, evaluation from our teachers and from our educators as well.

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And when we improve our biological way of acting and when we set up students to work together this is really helpful in terms of overcoming stereotypes and in terms of avoid conflicts and this has been one of the most successful part of our project.

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Of course there are several challenge. We are to take in account of first of all where to train as well as well as possible the trainers and we have to take an account that even COVID is out of our mind.

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It's effects still are. And then of course were to move from being a kind of novelty to become a structure project.

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Thank you very much.

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Okay. Those are all the presentations we're going to have. The second distributed paper by Asrafi Bintai, was online.

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She is here and there are printed copies if you would like one. Happily distributed and just come to the podium.

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But she's happy to answer questions. If you have them. So right now it's 9 45, 946.

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And we have basically. 35 min for a conversation. So. We welcome any and all questions if you have comments, be brief, but other than that.

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Happy to have a conversation and engage conversation with all of you. One of the provision. Thank you so much.

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Yeah.

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Or something. Anyone wants a copy of that?

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I can't find them. Sorry.

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With 2 decisions. Thank you.

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If you're online and you have questions, write to us on the chat. She would be different.

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That's it. Those of you who are, go ahead. Those of you who are in line, you will be visible to us now.

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Just so you know. All right, any questions from the floor or the chat that we can begin? To address or to engage with.

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Do with them. Yeah, I'll give it to you if you want this question. Sure. Sorry.

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Just make it.

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So.

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Hilda will not be with us. She had some personal challenges that wouldn't allow her to remain.

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Throughout. So we may not be able to. Answer any questions for her.

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All right, there's a couple of questions from the floor. So.

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I wanted to ask you, how was the, how, how did you relate? With the school.

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How was the process? How, how did you know about them? And how was the process of relationship with them being you from another country and So the question I think for those of you who are online was how Did I learn about both the Montrealis and how was I able to relate with them?

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And, who both work at American University. One to look at a we were looking at a project called Transgendering Human Rights and it was a kind of dry title but we thought it encompassed sort of employment education housing and the elements that we wanted to come and then we learn about the school in 2011 2012 some

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of the activists that were involved were people that we knew.

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And.

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The project. Of the book Travare or Transing Knowledge that I showed you in the PowerPoint was with both who never see that in the PowerPoint was with both Unilever Sidad and National Dera Plata, and the Montreal, SIDAD, and NACION, Al, DERA, Plata, when you were to

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see the National de la Vina, and the Montrealis. And it was about finding ways of demonstrating.

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One that. You had powerful settings in the global south that is often considered a chaotic place where you actually had people doing much more radical change in terms of education in a more systematic fashion than in the north.

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So for us, it was important to actually figure out. How could we serve as vessels to make that known outside of the country?

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I will say that personally and you know Fuliana Martinis was here she would probably have a different impression.

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I had a much engaged relationship with, and the trans women who were involved in that. School, done with Mocha Seles and I think it, it are very,

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Airtight community and so I wanted to respect that but also understanding that there are some power dynamics that I wasn't.

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Engaging or that I was attuned to but also wasn't engaging. I think it's a The tension that I alluded to earlier is that There were C's gender gay men leading a school that started to focus on Tara's TM trans women.

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I mean, right. So the challenges of that tension and the demands for more visibility and for centering Tarvesti people.

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In administering the school still continue.

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But I think as scholars who came from out of Argentina, a lot of the challenges were also about We need material resources.

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What are you here to provide us? Right? You're not going to come into this space if you're not going to support us to actually have food or books or transportation.

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Right or materials in the actual school. And I think that was very clear from the get-go. Something that we appreciated because we were able to mobilise some of the resources that we could.

398
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Thanks. I have 2 questions. One, 2 other first. It, your project seems really close to hours so you work with students really close to hours so you work with students and you work on social inclusion and building peace.

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I want to know something about the teachers perceptions and to what stand on the one end they've been involved in the project and on the other end if you identify some key issues that should be inserted in the teachers training for improve these 2 topics along with their teaching activities and other questions to the I'm wondering if

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you used to work also with transnational communities because in several cases transnational communities because in several cases transnational communities could play a role in supporting migrant rights or in migration policies also in their country of origin.

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And a subsequent issue could be dealing with the idea of developing a transnational project because the topic you you tackle are similar in other different immigration.

402
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Countries and for instance in Italy we already carried out a similar activities focus on migration and add and try to in improve the awareness among operators or social workers or policy makers as well in taking account differences, intercultural competences and needs coming from migrants.

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Thanks.

404
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Well,

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In the in the in the in the teams. Were very involved and very interested to participate. It was voluntary so there was a difference between the 2 teams.

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In the case of Argentina, It was totally voluntary work without any pay, anything, anything. Not even a certificate.

407
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And they were very involved because of the interest in the project. And they were very active and they gave us a lot of, they were a part of an equal part completely equal part of the of the research team.

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And we in the line of of Salvador. We were very happy because the 5 teachers 3 from one school, 2 from the other, which participate in our team and the research team.

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They We produced a book as a result of all the process. And they were authors in the book.

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They were authors in the book. So for us it was really an achievement. Not in the Colombian side of the research, some of the teachers involved were doing a master degree in the research.

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Some of the teachers involved were doing a master degree in the in the Sunday which was the the organization who carried out the Colombian part.

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So they had an interest and they were developing their careers and their education as teachers. But they didn't arrive to write in the final in the final book.

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And one that was a part about the implication. In old case, economy and artsentine, I think they were very involved.

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In one case because of the in the because of the subject and in the other case because of the war part of their developments.

415
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As teachers. Regarding what to the education of teachers. I think that all the discussion relate to the peace building and inclusion are elements to to include in the curriculum.

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II, in, in my trajectory as a researcher. I think that the most important thing for me is how to include in the teachers curriculum divisions and the voices and the capability to listen, the voices.

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Of the students. I think that that's very interesting and and it's the voice which is not or less less listened.

418
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In the in the educational debates. That's why when I talked at the last part. About the opacity, much of the capacities to be with.

419
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What the young people said. Now, that the mimic conclusions that are built in classrooms and especially in the relationship between teachers and students but also among the same students.

420
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That was very important for them.

421
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That's Thanks for your question, Roberta. So the transnational communities aspect, interesting. And I think it points to a weakness of the program as is because We haven't been able to really work as closely as wanted directly with migrants, mainly because of linguistic barriers and being outsiders.

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So. So it ends up the closest targets getting closer to them. Is really the community based organizations, NGOs and CSOs that are Thai.

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And then, you know, so I think that The closest is probably the micro worker rights network which is more trade union-like because it's illegal for migrant workers to form trade unions.

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And also with 88 generations that tend to in Burma, 88 was a huge uprising before the latest.

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And they were activists and came out of university and were expelled from their country. So they came to Thailand among other countries and from trade unions like Yongshi Ioo in northern Thailand.

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Also Cambodian unions. Because they have been Cambodians have been looking in car manufacturing in Thailand.

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So I think it's like really trying to tap those communities. Once COVID happened, everything shut down a little bit.

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It's not an excuse, but I really appreciate that Salvador. Right. Your comment is no matter what we do, it's still attractive.

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And I recognize it and it's a huge limitation but at the same time we are resources, and I have a question for all of you.

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About how do we make the things that we do not a one-time thing, but a long-term commitment to repetitively work with these communities that we're now committed to and how do we establish some things that are more sustainable or funding strategies.

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And then the questions I have for Robert and Ada is about, I'm wondering about how to best.

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Measure or evidence outcome in the long term? How do we know what we're doing? I mean, it's an investment in these young people, right?

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What will they do in the future? Where do they go after like 2 years from now or a year from now?

434
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I'm just curious about those things. Should we start with the individual questions to the 2 of them and then?

435
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And if Lena or Roger want to, help me, I would be very great.

436
01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:36.000
Okay, I think that in terms of long fixed results or improvement. Our project should be helpful in giving both national and I should not mean Hello, students and, migrant students.

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Knowledge and competences on out there to deal with diversity. And our do they have to learn about changes in their context because they live in a contest where multicultural society is the reality is not something in the air and they have to cope with diversity along each of their daily environment from school to sports activities and in a couple of years entering

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the university or the or the labor market. So I think that one of the challenge on the one end about one of the key important results could be to give to children and to the adults, them some tips and helpful knowledge on how to cope with an increasing diversified societies and not only think about gender or age but also about ethnic

439
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linguistic and religious diversity.

440
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In our case the idea was Yeah, action research. It was an action research project. We had the problem that we started the project.

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2,019. So with the first phase. That these are I am workshops, this worship with students and and teachers.

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And we had a second face that was the action. We did the research, but the action was little and the pandemics came and the world changes and the problems of the cool change.

443
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Yeah, behind our work is the school completion of these young people because they are very poor and segregated community which the usual is that many of them don't finish at school.

444
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So one of the challenge was that and it was not our challenge. It was the school challenge. It was the school challenge and the teachers that participate were very involved in that.

445
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So the idea was to health the community. To think about their strategies. One of the outcome was all what?

446
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We are doing a lot and that was right in the Argentinian school. They were doing a lot for that.

447
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But also too.

448
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What were at outsiders but we work together and sometimes when you are out you can see things that they don't.

449
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They don't see in every day work. So that was the idea of the capacities. And the idea was afterward to work.

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Oh, this capacity, but we didn't arrive to that. Now we are going to be there.

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And doing a second phase more related to action. But the idea was not a big, intervention.

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It was an intervention situated like most of the action research. And just to help the school to to understand these dynamics and to give them and to produce with them.

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Give them produce reciprocity with them. A better understanding for a interaction. Which is a Yarrow.

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I understand. They change in people will be if they, I don't know, not a lot of children, but to finish school could be a change.

455
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It would be an outcome for those young people.

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I had a question for As Rafi in one of the distributed papers and I think she also wants to say share something with us but one of the points for those of you online in present that haven't seen that distributed paper.

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Is that a third of the girls were absent during their menstruation because of unavailable?

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Functional toilets and my question was what do schools do? To, compensate for the learning missed those days that they missed it, right?

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If there weren't changes to the infrastructure of the school. Did they do something remedial in terms of the knowledge that the students didn't get?

460
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How did the school think about that? But happy to also have you tell us more about this study.

461
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Thank you. Good morning, everyone. Actually, there is no special compensation if any girl missed her school in normal time during her administration if any girl missed her school in normal time during her administration and that's why I proposed one of the toilet and named is her school in normal time during her administration and that's why I proposed one of the toilet and named is functional

462
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and I proposed this toilet not from architectural point of view. Could resist the dropout rate of female girls.

463
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Adolescent. And I think in my country, especially in my country, when a girl didn't come to school.

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Sometimes the authority or headteacher of this school go goes to the guardian of that girl and sometimes he's suggests them to send their girl to his school.

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If, if, if you say, is that the compensation? I think this is the compensation to raise the motive their awareness to the parents that you should go your girls to a school.

466
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To, to the parents, you should go your girls to a school but it is not the topic of discussion related to the toilet and sometimes parents ping that you should go your girls to a school but it is it is not the topic of discussion related to the toilet and sometimes parents ping that you should go your girls to a

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school but it is not the topic of discussion related to the toilet and sometimes parents ping that and sometimes parents ping that and sometimes they stop their girls to go to school due to And here I here I proposed a diagram or a toilet and related to some social issues are included in this toilet and if anyone interested about this topic I mean

468
01:40:22.000 --> 01:40:43.000
I have mentioned my email in this paper and I would be happy to receive any suggestions or any collaboratively please send me email I will reply Thank you.

469
01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:46.000
Okay, thank you. We have about 8 min left and I think we should begin to close with the quest.

470
01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:57.000
Oh, you have a question so that I had a sort of overall question for everyone but we We'll get to that in a minute.

471
01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:09.000
I know today an overall theme that came up was gender, so I haven't a question for Asrafi.

472
01:41:09.000 --> 01:41:17.000
I'm wondering if in your study you considered any other menstruating teens besides girls. So maybe trans boys are men.

473
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Teens or non-binary or gender queer people? I'd be curious how functional toilets would affect their studies.

474
01:41:31.000 --> 01:41:43.000
Yeah, this toll is is not for applicable for girls. And II, and that's why II named this toilet is functional.

475
01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:52.000
It is, it is applicable both for man and woman and I think it is also applicable all over the world.

476
01:41:52.000 --> 01:42:10.000
In my experience, in the Melbourne Convention Center, I think this toilet are not functional because many sociologists came here from Muslim countries and they preferred to use water in washrooms.

477
01:42:10.000 --> 01:42:30.000
There is no water here. So, so I think this toilets are not functional and here I proposed how it dialed it would be functional all over the world and for all gender all classes of people.

478
01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:33.000
Yeah, thank you.

479
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:46.000
Yeah, okay, so we. We, is there a question? Yeah. Let me.

480
01:42:46.000 --> 01:43:01.000
Thank you. Probably her question to Ashrafi was about that in those schools did she included? Any transgender or other gender individuals for their study or not.

481
01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:08.000
Unfortunately enough in a situation like country like Bangladesh As I work on transgender for since.

482
01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:18.000
For 5 years. So unfortunately enough, if anyone found out as a transgender any point of his age.

483
01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:26.000
Directly he or she is thrown out from his home directly at a cars. So in this context.

484
01:43:26.000 --> 01:43:32.000
There was no opportunity that you could find someone who is going to school and can be considered as a respondent for this sort of school.

485
01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:49.000
But it's an important point definitely. We are advocating for that that a transgender right the government of Bangladesh also trying to ensure right, the government of Bangladesh also trying to ensure the transgender right, the government of Bangladesh also trying to ensure the transgender right, the community, the

486
01:43:49.000 --> 01:44:02.000
NGOs and the different governmental organizations are are advocating for their rights to but not even at this moment you will find in I think what we see.

487
01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:10.000
In a I think a open it's open to all that one transgender boy or girl is going to school.

488
01:44:10.000 --> 01:44:20.000
Yeah, it's not the case of Bangladesh even. So that is why it is difficult to find such sort of for hard to find such sort of respondents for that thing.

489
01:44:20.000 --> 01:44:28.000
But it's a very important point. I believe Ashley should include in her research for the research.

490
01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:38.000
Or her functional toilet, she should have kept for his school context, she should get anything comes in 10 years, 5 years that transgender boys or girls can come to school.

491
01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:48.000
These functional toilets should include those facilities definitely. It should be included in her research.

492
01:44:48.000 --> 01:45:13.000
So in context to your point that any what was the point that any anything compensation provided. The thing is that is still the school or the government or the Department of Higher Education or Primary Education, authorities have no concept about functional toilet end in their mind.

493
01:45:13.000 --> 01:45:20.000
That's why The point of compensating girls, I think it's just a European thought for them.

494
01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:30.000
They never thought about that. So it's very important. You mention a very important point. If anyone misses 2, I never came up in my mind because she is my colleague.

495
01:45:30.000 --> 01:45:49.000
We work in the same school in Bangladesh because he is my colleague we work in the same school in Bangladesh so in university but we talked about it a lot but that never came up in my mind that it needed to be compensated because 2 or 3 days missing baby school maybe 7 8 20 classes missed classes Mr. Lectures

496
01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:58.000
and sessions. It's very important. So it should be compensated definitely. And along with the functional toilets, we could think about that.

497
01:45:58.000 --> 01:46:12.000
I think involving Prime Minister's gender analysis approach, we have to think about that in future. It might be a new resource for us that how it could be a 3 or 4 missed days means 11 months a year.

498
01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:17.000
It's not at 12 months a year. It's for them 11 months. It's a big, big issue.

499
01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:34.000
Thank you for raising this point. Thanks. All right, we have 3 or 4 min. I will start answering so thatak's question, which I think was to all of us in any connection nicely with the with

500
01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:58.000
As Rafi's and colleagues. Issues raised because I think in many ways having folks who are members of the community on long term relationships is what sustains the ability of continuing to do the capacity building of continuing to seek external funding and of continuing research.

501
01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:06.000
And I, in in the case of Mocha Selles for me, it was very clear that we had reached an end point.

502
01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:22.000
I would want to think that there are ways in which other collaborations can continue. But I also think that means And I'm always in conversation with folks from American and diversity will get external funding to work with folks.

503
01:47:22.000 --> 01:47:32.000
All over the world, and like the sustainability of continuing to support mentoring but mentoring as equals, not uneven.

504
01:47:32.000 --> 01:47:40.000
Those who are interested in being part of those long term relationships. And that takes time and commitment that people are not.

505
01:47:40.000 --> 01:47:53.000
Necessarily willing to make. The funding add a and a layer of just the groundwork, the infrastructure.

506
01:47:53.000 --> 01:48:05.000
5 or one C 3 status all of these things that depending on the country of the region some organizations in Argentina we haven't been able to work with because they haven't reached the 500, and one, C 3.

507
01:48:05.000 --> 01:48:14.000
They've been meaning to. We've had a crisis and then. COVID, right? So, but then we know that that creates an inability to actually get.

508
01:48:14.000 --> 01:48:23.000
Any funding whether we apply from their from Argentina or whether we apply from the US, right? Like until that's reached.

509
01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:37.000
And we can make them do that, right? So I think that's where you establish a collaboration where you say when you're ready I'm here right but you've got to be ready you've got to want to do it, and I think that's the part that has been.

510
01:48:37.000 --> 01:48:51.000
Of really vivid learning experience for me. That was a very long window answer, but others.

511
01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:55.000
Who was the microphone?

512
01:48:55.000 --> 01:49:01.000
Hey. Oh.

513
01:49:01.000 --> 01:49:08.000
Yeah. And whoever, who has the microphone.

514
01:49:08.000 --> 01:49:20.000
Yes.

515
01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:32.000
We did a dish with really very little funding. In Argentina we are used to work for free.

516
01:49:32.000 --> 01:49:36.000
We in Argentina we are used to work for free. That's our passion. We are used to work for free. That's our passion.

517
01:49:36.000 --> 01:49:41.000
We had a small funding, we are used to to work for free. That's our passion. We had a small funding from Columbia, from the Colombian research, but it didn't.

518
01:49:41.000 --> 01:50:05.000
As I said, most of the people that were volunteers, we, then we in my university name, we also had another project but it's for I don't know to go to school to pay us.

519
01:50:05.000 --> 01:50:22.000
Yeah. They, to, to, to, tub, they, yeah, the transcription, the transcription.

520
01:50:22.000 --> 01:50:30.000
That's all. It's like that. So we are used to do. Reset for for nothing.

521
01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:44.000
It's a because it's a part of I think that political involvement that that was also expressed in the Now we want to make a change.

522
01:50:44.000 --> 01:51:14.000
We want that at the university. It's also part of the ideology of the university. And my university, I work in 2 universities which are new universities from year 2,009 and we have here who talk about the Brazilian colleague she talked about the involvement of the idea of extension we don't talk about extension anymore we talk

523
01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:27.000
about link linking with the community linking with the territory. None other studies that the university should not do extension.

524
01:51:27.000 --> 01:51:35.000
Now it seems that it's something you do because you have a little time and then you go there and to learn what to do now.

525
01:51:35.000 --> 01:51:46.000
That's not the idea. The idea was that they, a Brazilian colleague says, work with the community, learn, we learn and they learn.

526
01:51:46.000 --> 01:52:12.000
And we interact with our abilities and skills and build something that. For justice. For social justice. We're gonna have to wrap up because I see participants from the next panel were 2 participants from the next panel were 2 min over but let's continue this conversation outside the next panel were 2 min over. But let's continue this conversation outside. Thank you everyone for showing up to an 8 30 a.

527
01:52:12.000 --> 01:52:13.000
M All right.