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So, I'm gonna start. So we will look at 3 cases, of workers in Which we say like our strategic industries.

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Where we could find a kind of end by violence in the employment relationships. So this is why we see the ambiguity of employment.

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So we see in all those 3 sectors that we will deal with. Situations where we don't have a kind of clear development of class interests.

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So class interest in the sense of workers interest. So they are kind of mixed up with identities of self employment.

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Or entrepreneurialism. I mean we have this in. Geek work and platform work which is not talked about but we look at some other sectors the delivery workers we're looking at are partly platform workers but also not all of them

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But, yeah, we will see that this exist in, in a number of sectors and some forms are old, some forms are new.

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So I will, talk about truckers and then, Hey, Carter and Gabriel.

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Look at the elevator technicians and delivery workers.

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So. Yeah.

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Alright, so I briefly talk about the truckers in Brazil. So there we have a system which is in place since a long time, also more or less at this division.

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Like, these are numbers from, 2 years ago, but these same numbers could have been shown like 20 or 30 years ago.

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No, not so much has changed in this division. So there's a certain group which is formally employed.

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And working for transport companies about 350,000. And then there are about 600,000 self-employed.

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So this number is always a bit unsure sometimes in the media numbers reported like 1 million If you talk with the agencies, it could also be lower.

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So this 600,000 is the number which. Officially registered with the So with this in with a state institution.

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But this does not mean that all of the self-employed are active. So We have to take the numbers with a grain of salt.

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The important issue is that the self-employed truck as they are legally not allowed to close freight contracts.

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So they're dependent on transport companies. So this already tends a bit this idea of self employment and independence because There's a lot of disguised wage work going on, because of the situations.

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But then, there are also a number of these, self-employed truck drivers are obliged to register as a small company.

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So then they would a pear in another register. As a as a transport company. So this is why there have been some cases when truckers successfully suit transport companies and then said no in reality unemployed.

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So this is why some transport companies say like, no, we don't hire you as a self employed chucker.

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You only hire you as a company. Similar to what happens for example at Ryanair where the pilots had to Where to sell themselves as companies.

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So Ryan and I had no Oh, labor contract. For example, so this is also happening increasingly because, the transport companies want to avoid even more in a stronger way some responsibility.

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So there's a large amount of fake self employment but it's also hard to tell how much of these 600,000 stuff.

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Fake self employment or not. So there's also not a lot of research numbers about it because there are also few institutions that have an interest to shine more light on this.

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So what happens is that the self-employed truck as they have to come up for all the costs.

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Diesel tiles vehicle repair. So these are the most important costs for them. And the thing is that the transport companies, if they close contracts with shippers, like large companies, for example, ag business or factories or supermarkets.

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Then, the, the contracts closed by transport companies, they adapt to changes in the diesel prices.

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And this is not the case for the self-employed trucker. So if there's a change They usually do the contracts for 6 weeks ahead.

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Then they have to pay the difference if the diesel price goes up.

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They don't know 4 weeks ahead and sometimes the oil price goes up and down. This was very, relevant when the oil price was immediately adapted to world market prices which started in 2,015 No, 2,016.

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Now the government has like made this a bit more flexible so the price does not adapt at once.

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But In the end, like all these kind of, the prices that often see like inflation like tires got much more expensive like recently in the last 2 or 3 years.

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So, this is why, the self-employed truckers have At least a different immediate demands from the ones of employed truckers who like battle with transport companies.

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So in this way, and the self employed truckers have more common interest at least in their short term interest as like the transport companies because they are affected by the same.

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Price changes.

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So this situation led to a large alignment of the interests between transport companies and self-employed truckers.

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And, often do not mobilize together with the employed trucker so this goes kind of in separate ways and also they are usually in separate unions.

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And. This is then reinforced by the fact that many strikes of truckers are led together with transport companies and then in many cases.

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Transport companies are forcing the employees to strike. So this is creating another division between the 2 groups. Because the largest number of the people who are mobilized by themselves or the self-employed trucker so the transport companies they often finance, the strikes.

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Oh, help with the strikes in doing lockouts or forcing their employees to strike.

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And many organizations of the Brazilian truck as they also represent represent both companies and self-employed truckers.

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So the whole thing is pretty much mixed up. There have been also mobilizations, large strikes where more the demands of companies for flexibility of labor time were much the main demands.

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And so in the last years they have been some movements where the self employed trackers try to do their own organizations.

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But then there has always been a scheme that they got reintegrated with some other organization which is representing the company.

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There is a lot of difficult in creating. A separate class interests of the self employed workers. This is then also reinforced by an ideological moment.

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So there's not this kind of material interest and the organizational level. There's this idea like truckers are kind of self.

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Employed, independent, which reflects a bit also the work, the labor process because they are sitting alone in a car.

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And but in the end, they also know they're not very independent. So there's a lot of complaints about it but still this kind of notion of I'm independent.

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I don't want to be mixed up with this kind of trade unions which represent workers. Is prevailing.

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So that's a bit of a problem. I mean, as I said, they have been like recent movements of a more kind of independent.

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Unionism but this does not. Represent.

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The main group so it's pretty much divided.

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So why just go over to

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If you tell me when I should change the slides.

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Well, I could share my own screen maybe, but, okay, let's keep it this way.

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No, I can just.

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I think it would be easier. So. Yeah, the first slide. No.

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Is this the first one?

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Yeah. Yes, yes. The subject of my research, the work of innovator technicians who install and maintain innovators and similar equipment such as escalators.

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Which is a business dominated by big transnational manufacturers. And these companies, they leverage this position as manufacturers.

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To gain longer maintenance contracts. So that's where the growth of the profit comes from. And they embed elevators with technological restrictions that curb the ability of other firms to maintain the equipment and they include in sales contracts maintenance services for a certain period.

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So basically the logic is to build in order to sell services. In Brazil manufacturing is still an important part of the profit of these companies but increasingly they are moving to SARS.

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And well, I'll start with installation, which is a very physically domain job and the second slide, please.

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Moment. Yeah.

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And yeah, the second slide, yeah. Thank you. No, no, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

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It's the previous one. No, you can go back one. Yeah, I'm sorry.

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I thought I IS switch but no. Well, escalation is a very physically demanding job and it involves considerable risks.

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You're dealing with heavy equipment, high electrical voltages, and in a construction environment. And manufacturing needs to be able to send these things to install theators throughout the whole country.

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So these workers are also. Traveling and using temporary accommodations and things like that. And even though technically it requires a lot of skew, often this kind of work is relegated to formally unkilled workers.

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Which are not very well paid. So. That's the kind of the picture of the of the job.

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Virtually every new installation in Brazil is outsourced to small firms. And there was a long dispute about this.

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I won't have the time to go into details but contract work is a rule here. And the thing here is that when you buy an elevator, the installation is already a covert by the contract.

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So you can't really choose, to hire a different firm. So the only purchasers of installation services are the big manufacturers or manufacturers, but, these big manufacturers account for 80% of the market.

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So basically they can shape this market as they please. And he is really where you see a lot of fake contract work because, elevator makers often give.

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Workers their uniforms the tools training and whatnot so you have a formal small business owner who is also usually a worker.

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And the takes on the labor contracting part of things, but but that's it. Everything else is organized by, usually by a big manufacturer.

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In the case of maintenance services and now you can go to the second nice slide. Yeah, thank you.

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In the case of maintenance services, things are a bit different because, in this case, a technician usually works alone and he will getting to a car at the start of the day and you drive a longer predefined group.

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Where they can perform checkups and routine maintenance tasks and things like that. Or they work in emergency duty.

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So a call center gets an emergency call that an elevator has failed or has some kind of problem and a technician drives there to do with with scroll.

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Notable trend here is that the physical location of the firm is losing importance. So these workers are invariably monitored through GPS and their cell phones and you have a lot of talk about industry 4.4 point oh and digitalization in general so elevators now are embedded with all kinds of sensors and everything

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happens on the cloud so the elevators can predict that a park is failing. And you will dispatch a technician.

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And the warehouse will receive an order for the spare parts and things like that. Sometimes it's a bit exaggerated, but, in the case of, digitalization of work, it has been widespread in all the companies, even in smaller complex.

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And this has been causing, important shifts. So sometimes workers even in big companies.

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They're required to use their own personal vehicles. On the job. And or at least or expect that you have an available parking spot to start a company car.

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And that could give other samples like they need to wash their uniforms at home and this causes problems. Basically digitalization will work and this new way of organizing the labor process has been disturbing the traditional borders between the home and the workplace and personal property and company property.

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And just allowing or wider reorganization. Of the labor process and sometimes this happens in an expected way so I was talking about using their personal vehicles but.

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In emergency duty for instance. Now most of the big companies they use Uber. Instead of workers driving.

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So you have this new kind of outsourcing from from within where a specific task is outsourced to Uber and the platform of Uber is integrated with the logistics platforms and the cloud platforms of this of this company.

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So. There's not much, workers can do about that and this leads of course to all kinds of Oh, of conflicts.

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There in maintenance there are small firms too and this is important but a key difference here is that small companies usually appear not as contractors but as competitors to the big corporations.

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So while the installation services, the conflict between workers and small firms on one side is closer to a conventional capital labour conflict with the big corporations in others because in spite of the appearance of small independent firms.

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The fact that everyone's working on behalf of manufacturers is quite clear. You have of course the technicians there are directly employed, but it be corporations, but those in small firms are usually trying to establish their own business.

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So. An interesting aspect here is that the precarity in this case is often self-imposed.

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So of course it is still a product of external forces. But there is always this narrative about facing what is perceived as an unfair competition for internationals.

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So the fact that you are working longer hours or that you're working really hard. Is mixed with entrepreneurship ideologies and working class identities too.

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But it's always seen as a form of resistance against the Multanationals. Often workers that have been fired from internationals or they don't have the former qualifications that they in the case of maintenance they expect that from their own workers.

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So. Some you have that in both cases in maintenance and installation you have different forms of employment.

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And what is interesting is that, despite all that, there's still a professional identity that links them all together.

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So there are many social media groups and now you can switch to the third slide yeah to the last slide.

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Yeah. So you have this professional identity despite all this, of these conflicting possibilities.

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And there would be a lockdown pack here, but I'll teach you 2 examples that I think are interesting.

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The first are messaging groups intended as real-time technical support because big companies they have all these remote technical support structures and global networks and new stuff like augmented reality and all kinds of technologies.

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To allow their technicians to work with equipment from different brands. But self employed workers are those employed by very small firms, they can't rely on that.

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So they create these messaging groups where they gather and collectively technical manuals and things like that. And when one of them faces a problem that they cannot solve, they ask for help and everyone helps.

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And this of course in place, it's solidarity open source kind of attitude because experience workers sometimes with tired workers you're sharing their knowledge and helping others for free.

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While big companies of course they go to great links to to keep their their knowledge based private. And the second example is that other social media spaces like Facebook groups are used to share stories and experience a day to day experiences about the job in general.

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But sometimes, this becomes something more. So someone talks about a workplace conflict and very quickly workers talk about organizing and about collective demands about starting a movement.

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But during my research. And before that, owning specific overwhelming cases, this never really seems to materialize because, for starters it's very difficult for these workers to find common targets because of all these different forms of employment.

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And, and similarly to the truckers, you have a lot of confusion about unions and employers unions because which is a thing in Brazil.

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So I'll just. And my discussion with. Something. Worker posted and in one of the discussions when he wrote that he, I don't like unions, but we have to form a union.

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There's no other way. And I don't mean to suggest you any conclusion about whether there are alternatives or not.

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But for better or for worse the union is still the only way this workers usually see due to form a movement.

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And particularly to be recognized. As a movement and yet it's very hard to do so because of the union structure in Brazil and because of these decisions that I mentioned.

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And that's the end of my presentation.

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Following up, with Hecar's presentation and your experimentation. And my research is taking care of the person logistics.

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Market here in Brazil. Then I will try to keep it brief but I do think that we need to take in step back and get an overview of the scenario in Brazil because it has some particularities that are essential to understand.

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The transitions that this market is going to. Noadays. The first one is that Mostly of this market here in Brazil is Let by a public company.

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That is, state change company that's generally just. Take care of most of the posts and logistics deliveries here in Brazil especially in the country site.

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So. It takes around 16, 60 to 70% of the delivery is in the countryside of the of Brazil.

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The rest of the market share is like kind of shared by Mukti national firms such as Amazon log to be And they are.

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Kind of passing through process of, restructuring. For the kind of a platform economy.

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And if you could please change to the next slide, please.

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Thank you. This project, Rex, is taking a lot of farms here in, but it's mostly it came mostly with the broadband.

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And it came along with the e-commerce boom also. It take, it did take some of this, multinational and regional big firms here in residue that started on the investing on the marketplace environments on the internet and This is from, that just started to change from the

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usual dependence of the post office in the big series and started to a process of outsourcing and Depends on the geographically, with the platforms such as Uber.

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The food business I foods and happy these changes, came along with a lot of new challenges for the working class here.

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Especially the lack of worker mobile mobilization because We have new forms of trying to. Create environment for class formation.

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Alongside with the unions taking a step back regarding this new environment. So We have the like, conflict there and you also we have the Trench of the National Post service prioritization.

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Then the system this also takes St. Can you best for the next slides? Please check.

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All these changes are taking some of the challenges for the creation of solidarity and workers power.

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Because they start to take some of the boundaries. Of the traditional organizing of the Union Zoom Rescue Forward.

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Such as the Like we can try to set in the This basis for the Jack, can you take one back?

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Sorry.

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Please, Thank you.

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It happens without me wanting to do it.

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Alright, you're right.

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So I'll be back.

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Screen sharing. Okay.

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Nice. I think we are screen. Just stopped. Okay.

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I guess we're back.

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Thank you. Yes, yes, this one. Thank you. So just to sum up this.

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Struggles that union workers and non unionized workers here in Brazil are struggling with. How does individual individualization of work and the kind of the kind of the mixed black thing that came with social media because

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The social media groups and WhatsApp here in Brazil, Facebook groups, etc. They can work both ways, such as, liver business.

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The an environment for class formulation. And for the demobilization of these workers, and that is like sponsored by these companies as messengers.

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Influencing them to do not keep up with transformation spaces, etc.

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I think is it that's it. You can move.

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Okay, so we just wanted to conclude very quickly because we already have a lot of time. So we seen this 3 sectors, all the new forms of this guy's wage labor.

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So in some sectors it's it's rather new. Like in the logistics and posting.

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Because there are a lot of new companies, roaming around. While like for the truckers these are very old forms that didn't change much.

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But so we see this various. Examples where the self employment locks the formation of class interests of workers.

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Or at least of the whole class or there's only one part. We're just kind of identifying as workers.

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So this is where we see huge challenges in these sectors to homogenize, divergent short and midterm interests because it's not just a ideological issue, it's also often the interest formation is different because of the way workers are exposed to the markets in a differentiated and different way.

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But there's also the size of relevance of the ideological. So the questions of identity as work or entrepreneur do play a role.

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So I think these kind of material and ideological goes. Hand in hand at

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You would have to look for like maybe longer term interest in order to see this kind of. Transformation of workers interests.

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And also this overall situation of a lack of meaningful prospects for wage labor. Offers also self employment as a kind of line of flight.

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So people move to self-employment because the conditions and wage labor are so bad. They see okay I maybe again the same amount but at least I have like some self-determination in my working time there's not a boss like moving me around.

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So I think, that's also product of the state of wage labor that we see at the moment and preserve.

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Okay, thanks a lot and we'll move on to the next presentation. Stop the screen sharing.

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So

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I think the next one is myself.

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Can you find my paper on the On the column.

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Hi, everyone online. I'm just letting you know this is Ben Scilly and there was technical difficulties in the beginning so the people here in Melbourne could not see the beginning but we are here now so just letting you know that we're here but you guys seem to have self-organized in the absence of a chair so you can

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continue but I'm letting you know people can see you now here in Melbourne.

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Can I start? Okay.

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Okay, first of all I apologize for you because my My slides has no picture color picture. It's just, the paper that I will,

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. Speaking now So my paper is. Written together with a PhD student than Yale Mendes, Lenny Limendis.

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And try to tell the story of the recent organization. Of the

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Union, a global union network of Pete Bras the main oil company. And the only one to be sure.

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Concerning the extraction and

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A developed of oil. Okay. During the workers party governments, Brazilians unions experienced a trajectory of At that time, provided an expansion of the workforce in the oil industry.

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And in the meantime, How are you unions had the possibility to rebuild in their regaining power power which has been largely reducing during the nineties.

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It is my son of the President of the Republic. In 2,016 delivered a severe blow to unit organization and workers mobilization.

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As the government that succeeded here. Acted decisively against the interests of institutional positions helped by unions.

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Particularly through reforms in the label law. All movements around the union network policy were shaken, including the Petrobras Network.

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In addition to this is neutral reason. Since it has affected all order networks. Company networks. Another reason was the retreat of the company's international operations from 2,016 onwards.

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On August, the eleventh, 2,014, the global network of Bettergrass workers was created.

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With the presence of the Global Industrial. The global industry or union The Foop is the acronym for They did a sound when you can Jupiter layers.

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Night at the Federation of Petroleum Workers. Link it to the central. Federation call CUT.

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So.

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Well, this, A meeting was with the Global Global Union, a Foot and the Company Board of Directors, including its present.

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At that time, Grasser Foster, President of Petrobras. Peter Ross was one of the main extraction components in the world and has been a troubled history of conflict between supporters and private control and defenders of the state monopoly, mainly when waves of privatization come to the front of the political

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arena. This was the case for example in the second half of the nineties during the government of Fernando Ikikatos.

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The network found in meeting in 2,014 formalized the proposal that had already been shadowed for years by label organizations.

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A first concrete step in building the network. Although not yet with this with that name. Name of, global network was taking in February, 2,010 when Fuku supported the building of the Petographs Workers Union in Bolivia.

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The in 2,011 a global framework agreement was signed in between the company and Hi, International Chemical Energy and Mining.

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I see a m. Within the spirit of I/O agenda. An important topic of this agreement which initially lasted 2 years.

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L was the inclusion of not only of the pet over us units abroad but Also of companies contracted Agro.

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That is, it included workers from subcontractors contracted by the main company which is worth nothing.

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As this is ever present concert in discussions about attempts. At Global Collective Forgaining. Oh, they capable of covering outsourcing subcontractors?

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Subcontractors as well. The Petrobras Agreement response. Always achieve it positively.

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This question. At least as an intention. Sureing the promising capacity for governors of labor relations along the production chains.

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A second step took place when the the presence of English or at that point already having having incorporated I see em.

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Turkey Raina met with the coordination of

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And the present of better bras to discuss the formation of a network of company workers. Expectations were positive.

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At the end of the meeting that formalizing the network the CUP workers. Representative said the following words.

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He said, we are. Moving towards the closing of our meeting with the objective of gradually building our network.

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Effectively with the support of Petrobras. The debate does does not end here. We will soon knock on President Grass's door.

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To renew the global agreements, signing in 2,014.

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Which doesn't make. At the time he I CEM. Where the company committed to guaranteed safe conditions of work, environmental responsibility as well as respect for union representations in the countries where it operates.

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Actually, 2,004, 14 meeting, the agreement was renewed. And in February of that year before the formalization meeting, the network has promoted another one in Rio Degenere with the present of presence of better brass workers from countries as different as Argentina, Peru, Colombia.

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Kurasa, Nigeria, China and Switzerland. Days encounters not many more records are available.

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There is a strong suspicion that meetings have become scarce or even seasoned. This suspension suspicion. Is quite feasible.

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After 2,015 with the economic prices and ongoing protests against President Numerous. The political environment deteriorated and Petrograss was at the center of TERRORATED and PITROGRAS was at the center of turmoil.

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After the impeachment of 2,016 and the coming to power of the new president appeared extremely hostile to unions and social movements began.

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The meetings have to global union networks until then taking place with great ease and with enthusiastic participation of the Brazilian union movement.

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Visibly shrank. The number and the rhythm of the meetings and the calls for new meetings left the rather of the centrals and the federations that until then were investing.

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Investing heavily on this policy.

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Following the guiding idea of global union networks supported by global unions.

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That working conditions tend to be better in the countries of origin of these companies and that there there should be solidarity among workers.

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From companies in this countries towards Walkers from the same company or the countries expectations were high in relation to the oil workers organizing.

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Organize it around. The CUP which in turn was a member of the I/O sector of industry or

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The saying of the coordination of the network is the following. May the country that hosts the company help the others.

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According to the speech to the representative of the oil workers of the network meeting. The logic of this type of action seeks to follow the logic of the international division of label.

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That is the orange of the colonial ties but also of the commissioned capitalist ties that consecrates the equality between sovereign states on the international geopolitical map.

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This discussion is at the heart of the economic commission for Latin America and Caribbean a structuralist argument as well as in the various versions of dependence theory.

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Since both have in common the postulation of a cleavage between center and periphery. The same reasoning apply for example to a large concealing company.

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Such as valley the mining company called Valley with the difference that the later is a entirely private while Petrobras is a state controlling company.

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How far? What is? Is expect is that the most country of the international be a developed country that is Hey.

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In the center of capitalism, while conversely, the country to where the company moves. Be a country on the periphery as that was the logic of the productive displacement.

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Taking advantage of abundant and cheap factors. Land and labor for instance and exchanging them for capital and knowledge.

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Morpolize it by large. Corporations. This is the model of the international division of labor in the dependency situation.

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Oh, now we live in a context in which multinationals from a country on the periphery Hey, as in case of, but also companies such as such as GB and S, notura, and others.

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Act as a possible source of help to more developed countries. They're tolls subsidiaries of branches of these companies.

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But the big question are is they are good. Are there any good examples of good good production practice or decent work relations?

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There, they could work. As a paradigm for more developed territories. It would be as if the more civilized civilized parton asking for help and solidarity from the less civilized partner.

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In this case, specifically in reference to labor relations only, okay, however, considering that The later labour relations, our powerful indicator of the degree of development.

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Oh, social relations. Porn up in a broad sense, it's worth extrapolating that in this case, It is the underdeveloped that sets the standard for the develop.

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Another pupils present in the network polish and nation by the Brazilian representative of Petebras Network.

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Was to apply the L I/O guidelines for the constitution of global pacts. From large transnational companies.

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According to that source, A bit of us global pact was established. But it did not evolve into a global framework agreement.

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While the global pacts are a United Nations proposal. Mediated by its specific multilateral agencies, which is the IRO.

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Hey. Commit Transnational Corporations to generic human rights and environment, environmental and anti-corruption goes, the global framework agreements are, a, Biartite commitment sign under the guise.

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Under the guise of a contract between global unions and companies. The later is is visibly more enforceable than the former and is preferable by unions.

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But also his widespread the assessment among unionists. As the network coordinator of the Petrobras Network made it clear that the global framework agreement may be seductive in a appearance but of little practical value.

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Being of this reason limited and in this sense as ineffective as the Global Pact. In his words.

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The global agreement is not binding. That is that international law thing. Very fluid. So the company goes.

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Then The company goes. That goes there in signs but Nice thing and sometimes sometimes in practice it doesn't it doesn't translate into anything.

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So this is something that was exclusive a lot in the Peters network. In the pet network. This is a pact of intentions.

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That's all. If there's no

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Local struggle, we know that will be worth very little. You cannot.

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You cannot deceive yourself thinking that capital has suddenly become humanized. No. Is this the words, this is the words of the a network unionist representative.

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The Petrobras branches that have network actions in favor of the their workers were those settling Peru, Colombia and Bolivia.

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As workers in the oil sector are linked to a single company in the market, which is Pete Bras, then the representative entity FUP in practice is the E is an entity of workers from a single company.

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Thus, in the resolution of external conflicts, the members of the network were the members of the CUP.

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In Peru where there was no organization of national union of the oil workers but only local unions the example of the Brazilian Federation worker as a lever to inspire the creation of a national structure in that country.

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That example demonstrates a practical effect of network meetings. Another effect of participating in networks is learning from other cases of successful solidarity around the world.

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Which encourages the perception of its effectiveness and conspires to reinforce its policy towards those. Represented by unions in the network.

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This sense the case of a strike was reported of an Norwegian oil company in U.S.A. and which drag it on for 2 miles.

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With the decisive intervention of the union and the parent company. The threatening not to buy products from that country, the conflict reached an end.

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In this case, the networks operate as a foreign trade space that can be Characterize it as one of No tariff barriers.

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As it hurts the idea of free play of economic factors carried by now liberties. While the first example from Peru shows a situation that can be named as the export of native its appearance, the second example from the US Norway dispute exposes a situation of import of foreign experience, opening the possibilities for trade units, of taking advantage of

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the flow of experience involved. In exchanging information throughout network meetings. It was also emphasized that the fact that the company does not alone have the capacity to pitch.

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The exercise of rights to its workers as a posture that could be correctorized as one of tutelage.

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According to the UN coordination, the company can respect organization, right, but if there is no fight, nothing will change in working conditions or anything else.

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It's necessary that the initiative comes from the law to endow the agreements with the recognition that their result What's the result of a demand felt as fair by one side but not by the other side?

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And that without the intersection. Off the interested party themselves, nothing would change. One lesson, however, seems to be sure, regardless of where regardless of whether the format use it in dialogue with companies is the global pact.

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Or the global framework agreement. According to rewards of the Unionist, when you demonstrate an ability to articulate internationally.

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Companies.

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This could be tested by are you? You and your is even before All the mobilization are out global unionism.

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Because during this 1995 striking against the privatization of the sector in the first year of the Fenando, the government.

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And which was harshly prepressed by the state. Heady fines were in pools imposed.

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On the institutions that led the strike. As well as these missiles for the strikers. The oil workers strike was a milestone in the resolute shift towards the now liberal management of the crisis.

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With the adoption of the rules of the Washington Consensus and the closing of the channels of tripartite interlocution.

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The trade unionists resorted to I are all forums. Which finally ended up accepting the request for the suspension of economic sanctions.

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And the reality mission of those dismissive. As it characterizes an anti-union stance by the government.

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Contrary to the entities resolutions. With this report at hand, the National Congress was activated. And ended up pressuring the executive to reverse this.

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Decision. The experiment Let the green light for a new path that would be explored from then on and not only by oil workers but also for but also by all the categories.

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That of resorting of responding to international entities to resolve

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Weeding border conflicts. 20 years later in 22,015 history repeats itself and international solidarity from the outside appeared.

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In the form of open letters seen sent by industry all to Brazilian senators in favor of the mobilization of oil workers against the sale of company assets.

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Face it with constant treats to privatize better rice the same method of public letters of reputation was used.

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In the following years. 2,018, 2,020 and 2,021. A constant and welcoming presence on the part of the global union sends an important signal to the local union in the sense that the later is not helpless.

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In its claims even though of National is in nature and not related. Directly to a strict agenda concerning working conditions and wage, for example.

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Leonardo, will be finishing in 2Â min.

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The Okay. The politician is off as opposed to corporateization of the Union's global struggles.

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A team that involves delicate questions of geopolitics of labor movement and brings to light the need for a challenging hash historical and theoretical approach.

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For now, it's worth mentioned that in the example of the Petrobras network, the importance of building a temporal process of reproachment.

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Between the local national federation. And the Global Union came clear. With all

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With allow it the constructions of ties of trust between the parties and the maturation of more incisive forms of intervention by global union in relation to local union.

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Even if he has not evolved into more logical forms such as campaigns. Campaigns or strikes.

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Okay, thank you.

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Thanks a lot Leonardo. I think then Philip you are you are the next.

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Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Can you see my screen?

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Yes, it's perfect.

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Thank you.

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Well. In recent years, we've seen a lot of companies from different sectors closing manufacturing plants in Brazil.

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In the automotive sector, the case of fudge motor companies stands out. Because the company decided to end all of its productive activities in the country instead of maintaining at least one factory working as other car makers did such as Toyota.

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There are of course some issues with Brazilian economy and the COVID-19 pandemics didn't help.

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That we must take into consideration. The day before yesterday.

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Volkswagen announced they will stop production in all of the Brazilian factories for the next weeks due to market stagnation.

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Despite of the government's incentives to hit the market.

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But we must not be mistaken. We cannot look at this phenomenon and think it is restricted to only one national reality.

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Let's take a look at some data.

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This is the number of the plants that fold kept open in the last 10 years. We can see that in 2015.

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Fold had 67 plants and in 2,022 this number fell to 44.

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It means they close 23 factories around the world in 7 years.

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When we look at the company employment data, we see that since 2017, 29,000 jobs around the world were lost.

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But where were those jobs lost?

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Not in North America as we can see. But we must take a closer look at the other parts of the world.

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The company has changed a lot. The strategies for Asia in the past decade with China gaining importance in the in the later years.

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That's because China is a very strategic country for RNG on electric vehicles and batteries and electrification is arguably the most important thing happening in the car making industry nowadays.

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In South America, Ford had 18,000 employees in 2013. But the companies started to record losses in the continent.

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So they started to sack a lot of employees 4 years before they started doing so in Europe. But as you were certainly the most affected country in South America.

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A by default restructuring process.

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In 2,019. They closed the San PA, so, and 2 years later, the

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The closure of those plans probably has to do with Brazilian overall economy situation in the past decade. Which hasn't been good at all.

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But it isn't certainly just it. As I mentioned, forwards going through a process of a deep restructuring.

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That trying to become an electric vehicle company. Globally, the company is reducing the market share. And as I mentioned before, they're closing a lot of factories and second a lot of employees.

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Therefore, there are both national and international facts that led to the closure. Of Brazilian plants.

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That is a very important point to stress. Because it has an impact on union actions. There are 2 moments of union actions.

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Before and after the closures. Before the closure of the unit is in St. Bernard. Do company, both funerals and they have very close unions.

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Try to persuade the company in order to make more investments in the plans. The role played by the World Works Council was indeed important.

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Every year, is from all over the world and the company management meet in the United States to discuss things related to the company.

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The management shows a lot of data to the unionists. And the unit is present the rave indications.

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So prior to the closures. The unit is knew exactly what was going on. The somewhere another unionists knew the vehicles produced in their plants were not performing well.

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And they knew there was a risk the plans would be closed. Since 2,014 the union is trying to buy some time.

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By negotiating layoffs and voluntary redundancy programs. In parallel. They were trying to convince the company to invest in modernizing and bringing new new products.

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To that factory. When things seem to be going towards a happy ending, the company surprised the units by announcing the closure of the plans.

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Something similar occurred. In 2014 aware of the company's losses in South America.

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And we need to show a disposition to negotiate. The union is used the space of the world works council to present the company with a book suggesting some strategies to keep the engine and transmission plans open.

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In later years, they even suggested Ford to stop selling vehicles to rental firms, which pay less for the cars and after one or 2 years of use resell them for a good price.

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Only in 2020 the company adopted that strategy months before announcing the closure of the top ate plans.

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It is interesting to notice here the proactive action of the unit to keep the plant from closing. Told me that one member of the company's board of directors told him that if it weren't for The unions action, the plan would have been closed sooner.

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I like some better now the unionists the top but the ones weren't surprised by Ford's decision to close the plans.

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Because it made no logistical sense to produce engines and transmission in Tabata. Take them to Kamasari and then bring back their already assembled vehicles to the state of Sao Paulo, the biggest market in the country.

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Also, in our world, Works, council meeting. The company hinted that the plant wouldn't have much more time.

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Both in in Tabata, the units were capable of buying time but weren't able to stop the plans from closing.

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Because the company wasn't convinced to investing but as you. In Polandian world. The unions were able to interfere with the rhythm of change, but not with its direction.

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After the closures, the first thing the unions tried to do was to promote the company from that decision.

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It didn't work. Now it is important to notice the relevance. Of the overall political conjuncture.

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For what happened next. Even before meeting with Ford management in Derbaum. The San Bernardo Union is met with them.

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This president, They wanted him to convince then-priced President Vladimir to help finance solutions to keep the plant from closing.

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Bonar would visit then US President Donald Trump. And they could talk about the case in their meeting.

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But nothing was done. But then governor of San heard from the company that the only thing that could be done was selling the plan to another car maker.

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But the union heard the same thing in So we conditioned, the union actions. In order to make the sell it was important for the potential buyers to see the factory functioning.

339
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:31.000
So the strike that began in February, 2,019 after the announcement of the closure. So, there was a potential buyer that came very close to closing the deal.

340
01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:45.000
It was Kaaa, a former for car dealer. That also became a call maker. But, didn't have the money necessary for the purchase and the economic and social development national bank B and D.

341
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:54.000
Doesn't loan money for factories purchase. Do you know Matt with a BMDs representative to try and convince the bank to help Kawa close the deal?

342
01:01:54.000 --> 01:02:00.000
But it also didn't work. The union is even used their connection with other potential buyers in order to try and convince them to buy the facilities, especially Chinese companies.

343
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:15.000
But it wasn't enough. Ford even started to negotiate with some Chinese companies, but it was already 2,020 and the COVID.

344
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:30.000
19 pandemic. That started in China. Er, kept the purchase from happening. They you know managed to get a good deal for the 4 employees in terms of compensation funds.

345
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:37.000
But wasn't able to keep the jobs. The unity was eventually sold to Constantine, a construction company.

346
01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:48.000
The top at the factory was also but the facilities will be used for industrial activities of the group. Viquin CSN.

347
01:02:48.000 --> 01:03:07.000
As for former Ford workers. They you know manage to reach a deal with even better compensation. Funs, In both cases, the trade of information with other unions both in Brazil and elsewhere was important.

348
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:16.000
In 2,019, Ford also closed plants in France and in Russia. There wasn't a global campaign, let's alone a global strike.

349
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:25.000
But the union is traded information in order to get the best compensation funds they could. Something similar happen in 2021.

350
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:35.000
With the somber and are the union cooperating with Toba Tang, in order to make Ford spend more than they intended when they announced the plan's closure.

351
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:41.000
However, international solidarity has its difficulties.

352
01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:55.000
Annie, you know, is interview complain about a lack of solidarity between unionists from different countries or even in the same country when the company decides to close a factory.

353
01:03:55.000 --> 01:04:03.000
The company encourages competition between the factories and that contaminates the relationship between unions from different factories.

354
01:04:03.000 --> 01:04:18.000
The phrase used to describe. This relationship is fighting a pokamu pile. In English it could it could roughly be translated to with few oranges, my juice comes first.

355
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:34.000
The relationship between the They're are affiliated to CUT and the Kamasari is affiliated to CTB.

356
01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:46.000
Also, is, You know, central. Also, the company always put obstacles to any sort of national negotiations.

357
01:04:46.000 --> 01:05:00.000
For always treated the factories in Sao Paulo different from the factory in Baiya. So it has never been easy to build solidarity even in the national field in the national level.

358
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:09.000
The political conflicts between N can be seen in Kamasari. Not all employees were sacked when Ford closed the factory.

359
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:21.000
In fact, the company kept most of the engineers to work in a new product development center. They developed vehicles to be produced abroad, of course.

360
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:33.000
This way the company has good and cheap professionals. Brazilian engineers developed the Echo Sports, a very profitable vehicle and are paid in hell.

361
01:05:33.000 --> 01:05:46.000
But it is very hard for a metal workers union to represent the engineers who would who would rather be represented by the engineers union affiliated to CUT.

362
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:57.000
But there's also hope. For former assembly workers in, The plants in the state of Sao Paulo weren't sold to another car maker.

363
01:05:57.000 --> 01:06:11.000
But the same cannot be said about The Chinese company BUYD is reaching an agreement with Ford to purchase the plant.

364
01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:27.000
But there is something we must pay attention. Fold has always said, both in the annual reports, any World Works Council meetings that the Camasasi factory could only be maintained because of government incentives.

365
01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:49.000
When President Lula visited China in April, he had meetings with the BUID CEO and today it was announced that the government will give incentives to BYD in Therefore, when we speak about unionism and factory closures in Brazil, We must take into account the role of the state.

366
01:06:49.000 --> 01:07:04.000
The US may negotiate ways of buying time and negotiate good compensation funds. But they can't by themselves keep a factory from closing or give incentives to another company who wants to buy the facilities.

367
01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:22.000
Of course, the unions can put pressure on the state to do so. The arrival of Chinese companies such as Great Wall in Iraq Samapolis and BYD in Hamasari will certainly present new challenges to the unions and to us researchers.

368
01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:30.000
There are important geopolitical changes going on in the world and the growth of Chinese carmakers are part of it.

369
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:47.000
That is why we must pay close attention to Lola's government's policies for what they call neo-induced realization with which represent a you term if compared with the last political Period.

370
01:07:47.000 --> 01:08:02.000
Thank you very much. This was my presentation.

371
01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:14.000
Thanks a lot, Philippe. So I don't know if we if we have a share now, so I'm just jumping in.

372
01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:15.000
And I see this.

373
01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:24.000
Thank you, York. Yeah, Michelle asked, I'm Chris Tilly asked if I would step in as chair since Mark Anner's not here and since Jurgis is a co-author of one of the papers.

374
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:43.000
And so we're open for questions. Michelle actually posed a question in the chat to the the first paper by York Ricardo and Gabrielle, OK, it's kind of long here.

375
01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:58.000
So I'm just gonna read this out because it is it is pretty long one thing I observe in the literature on platform based labor in the literature on platform based labour is the discourse of deformalisation.

376
01:08:58.000 --> 01:08:59.000
Authors writing on a number of countries in the global south, platform based labour is the discourse of deformalisation.

377
01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:10.000
Authors writing on a number of countries in the global south have pointed to the fact that in some cases it has in fact acted as a vector of semi-formalisation, so platform work.

378
01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:24.000
This is not to suggest that platform base work is good work, but doesn't at least offer more opportunity for organising than self employment and transport in some kinds of logistics than working as an individual, perhaps under the control of a local thug as was in the case of some research that she did in Indonesia.

379
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:39.000
So that that question is really for your Ricardo and Gabriele. I don't know if there's other immediate why don't we take an answer to that why don't we take an answer to that and give people a chance to raise a question either in the chat and give people a chance to raise a question either in the chat or by doing

380
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:40.000
a chance to raise a question either in the chat or by doing a hand raise or there's also a question either in the chat or by doing a hand raise or there's also a couple of people in the audience here.

381
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:50.000
It looks like Ben Scully is getting queued up. But thank you. I'll hand it over to to that team.

382
01:09:50.000 --> 01:10:00.000
Yeah, thanks a lot. I have briefly say something. And then also maybe head over to Gabriel who was more speaking about the platform aspect.

383
01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:14.000
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the question, Michelle. That's the point that I always like to make because especially if we look at Europe, we see a large wave of formalization of Uber and the taxi business.

384
01:10:14.000 --> 01:10:21.000
Tax the business was never like very formalized. But I think it depends a lot at which sector you're looking at.

385
01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:29.000
Like for example in food delivery, yes I would say this is the cases. It was a sector. It was always very informal.

386
01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:42.000
It's more getting. Some tendencies to formalizations. With the platforms, but like for example, aspect that, is doing his research on it was a formally.

387
01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:53.000
F fully formalized sector. Dominated by state companies and later private companies coming in like UPS or DHL, but now We see a third wave.

388
01:10:53.000 --> 01:11:00.000
Of platformization and I think That's rather deformalizing. So I think it depends a lot on which sector we're looking at.

389
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:09.000
I think for some sectors, this is true. I think for others, it's the opposite tendency.

390
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:15.000
Maybe, yeah, once the same or because he's more familiar with that specific set.

391
01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:34.000
No, I guess. I, my answer will be the same as your answer because In fact, that is it's the is it exactly what you had said because this sector of person logistics in Brazil was mainly a public sector.

392
01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:50.000
And it was highly formalized. And now that is suffering from outsourcing and platform. It has becoming more deformalized with self-employed suffering but war, kids, etc.

393
01:11:50.000 --> 01:12:07.000
So I guess it depends on the I think it's kind of it. One thing that is worth to notice is that here in Brazil, the food delivery and workers do operate by Kind of.

394
01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:25.000
Career progression logic with starting from bike for delivering and working to in this entrepreneurship logic to Eventually owning a cloud and becoming a Uber driver, etc.

395
01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:36.000
So. Not if it not necessarily being formalized, but Yeah, it depends on the sector that you look at, I think.

396
01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:38.000
That's it.

397
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:49.000
Okay, I'm going to ask Ben to speak up, step up. Why don't you just step up to step up you want why don't you just step up to the mic here so they can see you

398
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:58.000
Hi again everyone. Thanks for 3 very good papers. I have a question to both the first and last paper.

399
01:12:58.000 --> 01:13:12.000
Yeah, so maybe starting with the first paper. First I had just a clarity question in the lifts or sorry the elevator sector.

400
01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:14.000
In the lifts or sorry the elevator sector Ricardo mentioned integration with platforms and integration with Uber and I didn't understand that point and it seems hard to imagine what that means.

401
01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:35.000
How elevator companies use Uber. So I just wanted clarity. But for the overall talk, you know, you're kind of concluded by saying there's this kind of entrepreneurialism which undermines the ability to organize.

402
01:13:35.000 --> 01:13:41.000
But then you also had the quote of the truck drivers you know saying we don't want a union but we have to have a union.

403
01:13:41.000 --> 01:14:02.000
And I wonder what your reflections are on that kind of possibility for some kind of you know craft unionism or people or independent contractors or whatever organizing in a different way not as employees but but as self-employed workers because of course that is a different tradition of unionism.

404
01:14:02.000 --> 01:14:13.000
And yeah, it does seem like there could be that different form of class consciousness perhaps emerging. And then to the last paper to Felipe, it was very fascinating.

405
01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:33.000
I've also been working on some research on on the auto industry in South Africa and we haven't had these plant closures but it is very clear that there's a kind of strategy to continue.

406
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:47.000
You know gasoline based you know internal combustion engine production in South Africa and just kind of allow it to shrink while while growing electric vehicle production in Europe.

407
01:14:47.000 --> 01:14:55.000
I mean, so this is the strategy from the European manufacturers Volkswagen, Mercedes that are in South Africa.

408
01:14:55.000 --> 01:15:07.000
So I wonder if you also see this kind of reorganization, you know, with the sort of higher value production shifting to Europe.

409
01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:15.000
And if you could just clarify in the last slide about the Chinese entry, how that plays into the story.

410
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:20.000
Is it China entering into production in the global south? And if they are, is it in a different way?

411
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:38.000
Because as I said, that does seem to be the model that's taking place with the European and North American manufacturers is that the kind of the global south production that's being maintained is not being upgraded and technologically upgraded.

412
01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:46.000
Thanks.

413
01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:51.000
Do the authors wanna answer those questions? Maybe starting with the first paper, particularly the Ricardo.

414
01:15:51.000 --> 01:16:04.000
Yeah. Yep, yeah, okay. Well, about the elevator companies, using Uber, what happens that, in emergency duty, what you have is that you have technicians.

415
01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:16.000
Waiting for an emergency call so an elevator fails or someone gets stuck in the elevator and they usually they drive there Just solve the problem, either from their own homes.

416
01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:25.000
No, because you have everything's controlled by, by the cell phone and an app. But sometimes in a servicing post or something like that.

417
01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:33.000
So what companies do now is that they just use Uber to take their technicians there. They have to bring tools.

418
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:40.000
Of course, so but they have arrangements with hating services for that. So that's how they use.

419
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:58.000
So traditionally workers would drive the cars themselves but now they and actually we're seeing this in another I had another presentation about sales promoters that they also, go through all the route, in a certain, territory and companies and big brands are also using Uber for that.

420
01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:11.000
And they are able to integrate their own platforms and their own cloud logistics systems to the Uber system.

421
01:17:11.000 --> 01:17:30.000
So this is all automatic and they have access to some of the data and things like that. In a broader sense and this is also an answer to, Michelle's question, in a way about platform workers and we're having this debate in Brazil and it's a controversial question of course whether we should insist

422
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:38.000
on formalizing platform workers as wage laborers or allow for some sort of alternative regulation and maybe that would imply as well.

423
01:17:38.000 --> 01:17:53.000
Order forms or representation and organization. I'm legally recognizing this forms of representation. And I mean in the end this is a decision for the movements for these workers because how much they're willing to risk or concede.

424
01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:56.000
It's up to them. But what I would say is that platform work is only a part of it.

425
01:17:56.000 --> 01:18:07.000
We have all these sorts of hybrid arrangements and we can find common trends of course but in some cases things are very industry specific.

426
01:18:07.000 --> 01:18:13.000
So I think there is an opportunity here for labor movements to discuss these questions. Seriously. And because you deal with the sounds today, you had to talk about fuel prices.

427
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:38.000
You have to talk about ownership of the tools and the cars and how would that be regulated and talk about habitation and not only in a broader sense because of course many of these questions are traditional questions that are somewhat related to popular movements and labor movements in a way, but these troubles are increasingly directly connected to the experience of work and we have big transnational

428
01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:53.000
corporations making news of the vehicles owned by their by their employees and sometimes these are contract workers and they're using their homes to store these cars and to store tools and uniforms and things like that.

429
01:18:53.000 --> 01:19:13.000
So in the case of the elevator business, for instance, the debate about regulation of the sector and sometimes these questions are very specifically like health and safety regulations and things like that are now monopolized by employers associations and workers have no voice in these discussions and they of course employers have lobby and we have like medium.

430
01:19:13.000 --> 01:19:36.000
Brazilian local companies that are discussing with the big multinationals trying to protect some of the market things like that but workers are not represented so I think there's an opportunity here for and also of course labor studies choose to broaden, our perspective and start discussing these issues because it's not only about platform

431
01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:47.000
work. This changes and things that we've seen platform work but it's not exactly platform as in newber are appearing many different kinds of industries.

432
01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:50.000
So. That's my main but on that

433
01:19:50.000 --> 01:20:00.000
Well, yeah, Ricardo's answer is actually started to touch on Ben second question for the first group of authors, which was about sort of alternative forms of class consciousness, potentially leaking to alternative forms of unionism.

434
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:08.000
So I don't know if any of those 3 of you would like to address that further.

435
01:20:08.000 --> 01:20:16.000
Yeah, well, it's very difficult to say as I said, the union is still the first thing.

436
01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:36.000
Thing workers think about when they're talking about, organizing. In the case of elevators, we have things like, alternative associations and things like that, or maybe small business owners associations and ideas like that, but it's really difficult to push it any further because.

437
01:20:36.000 --> 01:20:44.000
These are the entities are mixed and in because I mean one way of looking at it is that well in the case of maintenance for instance.

438
01:20:44.000 --> 01:21:02.000
Well, big corporations, they offer higher wages and they have a better safety record in general. So the way would be to formalize all this but these companies are only able to offer all that because they concentrate in the case of Brazil in other countries it is different in the more lucrative contracts.

439
01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:24.000
So you should try to formalize everyone. I mean, that's not gonna happen. That's we can't, really have, all these workers without seriously changing these structures under the the same kinds of contracts and direct employment that we have in the big international corporations because this team companies when it comes to the installation

440
01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:38.000
services they use contract work and very precarious work and very low wages and and and whatnot. But decisions is still make it very difficult to to establish some kind.

441
01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:46.000
Of alternative because of course unions traditional unions they always say well no you can't do that you can't organize small business owners.

442
01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:56.000
We're workers and we have to represent metal workers because and well in the case of the elevator as part of the Dead's workers are represented by methyl workers units.

443
01:21:56.000 --> 01:22:10.000
Which are very traditional and unions. And with the very established forms of negotiation and practices. So that's, but I, yeah, I think, I mean, it is possible to think about alternatives.

444
01:22:10.000 --> 01:22:17.000
But as I said, it's very, industry specific. So, I think the first step would be actually to discuss.

445
01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:32.000
Initial policy. In this way, taking into account the effects on workers and from there maybe we can start discussing well Can this lead to another form of organization?

446
01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:46.000
Because how things stand right now it stops because they don't have common targets because well i am a small business owner you are a worker so with former union who are we going to negotiate with.

447
01:22:46.000 --> 01:23:08.000
Yeah, it's very difficult to find a common ground in a common agenda. But I think if we can do that and I think it's starting to happen actually, For instance, mental workers organizing, elevator technicians are part of the discussion within the federal government now, platform workers.

448
01:23:08.000 --> 01:23:18.000
So they're saying, well, we can also see these workers as platform workers and maybe we can find some kind of regulation and some kind of debate here.

449
01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:19.000
So these things are starting to happen, but it's really hard to predict or to come up with an alternative.

450
01:23:19.000 --> 01:23:29.000
Again, this is up to the workers and to the to these movements too. To come up with the solutions.

451
01:23:29.000 --> 01:23:34.000
Thank you. I don't know if Zerg or Gabriel want to add anything before we turn to Felipe.

452
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:41.000
Yeah, God where you want to chip in. I already said something in the earlier part

453
01:23:41.000 --> 01:24:01.000
And I think that Ricardo. Already like answer why what are you would range I would answer so I don't know I think that the only thing that It's worth to being said it's It is that this Place formation spaces, especially in.

454
01:24:01.000 --> 01:24:30.000
Social media and you know, in the in the internet, etc. They are I see them as mixed as a mixture by blessing as I said before because in Brazil we have some of Kind of reports and then didn't use me, etc, because they a platform here that's called I food use the

455
01:24:30.000 --> 01:24:41.000
social media to the mobilize workers that were trying to step in as a social movements and kind of a new unionism thing here in Brazil.

456
01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:50.000
They can be used for both ways, both for the workers and for the companies in the platforms to do mobilize.

457
01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:57.000
So I think that It is, we should be noting this.

458
01:24:57.000 --> 01:25:04.000
Thanks. So if we can turn to. Ben's question for Philippa about Global investment patterns.

459
01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:09.000
After that, I have a question for Leonardo.

460
01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:15.000
Thank you for the question.

461
01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:24.000
Fault is a bit different from. The European. Automotive companies.

462
01:25:24.000 --> 01:25:34.000
Because they are in US. Automotive companies so this is actually the investing. In Europe.

463
01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:40.000
They are closing factories in Europe. They are second employees in Europe.

464
01:25:40.000 --> 01:25:51.000
But in North America and special and especially in the United States. They are, they aren't closing many.

465
01:25:51.000 --> 01:26:03.000
One or 2 here and there, but They are keeping the the factories and they are modernizing their factories to produce electric vehicles.

466
01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:13.000
And they are investing in China. They are investing in R&amp;D in China and that's when II put together those 2 questions.

467
01:26:13.000 --> 01:26:26.000
We cannot underestimate China when we talk about an, when you talk about electric vehicles. The Chinese companies.

468
01:26:26.000 --> 01:26:37.000
Artifacts really advance it in electric vehicles. And, and your US company has, is investing in China.

469
01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:48.000
To do research and electric vehicles there. So we cannot underestimate China in this point. But, for the second question, I would like to

470
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:55.000
Say a few more words because

471
01:26:55.000 --> 01:27:06.000
Brazilian, development model. Yeah, was based upon The auto industry back in the 19 fifties.

472
01:27:06.000 --> 01:27:20.000
It is very important here, the auto industry. For a process of industrialization etcetera and the companies that came to Brazil back then.

473
01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:27.000
And in subsequently.

474
01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:39.000
American companies such as Fold, GM. European, companies such as Volkswagen, to a bit later.

475
01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:48.000
Then later came the Japanese, Toyota, the South Korean Subaru.

476
01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:56.000
But now those companies are leaving Brazil. Those companies are leaving Brazil. 4, left.

477
01:27:56.000 --> 01:28:07.000
Completely Brazil except for the engineers in Hamas City, of course. And but other companies are are shutting down, factories here.

478
01:28:07.000 --> 01:28:15.000
Mepsi just bans. So you are at, General Motors. etc.

479
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:37.000
And who who are buying those factories? The Chinese, the Chinese are buying. The, Great wall, but the the facilities of Mercedes Benz in My sense bends, build those facilities.

480
01:28:37.000 --> 01:28:54.000
They were open for 2 or 3 years and they closed the facilities and sold to great wall. BY D is buying for And they are.

481
01:28:54.000 --> 01:29:09.000
They are bringing. The production of electric vehicles to Brazil. So When we talk about those investment patterns.

482
01:29:09.000 --> 01:29:26.000
It is really complex. Let me talk about, okay, the European. Companies want to, develop electric vehicles in Europe, they, you know, US companies in the US, but the Chinese are coming to Brazil to produce EVs.

483
01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:39.000
So, Yeah, we're seeing a very complex scenario. But I think it's, worth, noticing and as I said, we cannot underestimate.

484
01:29:39.000 --> 01:29:41.000
China.

485
01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:46.000
Okay, thank you Felipe. Yeah, I have a question for Leonardo and then actually then I want to direct it back to Felipe and still open for other questions.

486
01:29:46.000 --> 01:30:01.000
We still have a good amount of time left. But for Leonardo, I just wanted to suggest that we have to be careful not to.

487
01:30:01.000 --> 01:30:18.000
Be trapped in old stereotypes of north and south. So it's true that there are not a lot of examples of Southern global framework agreements or, or you know, global networks having an influence in favor of workers in the north.

488
01:30:18.000 --> 01:30:22.000
But there is, I don't really know the details, but I know there's a case.

489
01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:30.000
Well, first of all, just to back up and say, Brazil has stronger protections for work or freedom of association than does the United States.

490
01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:55.000
And there is a case with Guerdao at where actually Brazilian workers were able to assist United States workers associated with United Steel workers in in a situation where Godal was essentially in the United States following the US customs of sort of ignoring any any freedom of association rights.

491
01:30:55.000 --> 01:31:04.000
So there are at least a few examples where in fact that the north south, the expected north south dynamic has been reversed.

492
01:31:04.000 --> 01:31:05.000
Yeah.

493
01:31:05.000 --> 01:31:20.000
And I suspect that we may see more of that as time goes on. You know, with the with the labor of form in Mexico, the the US Mexico Canada free trade agreement which now has some strong labour protections attached.

494
01:31:20.000 --> 01:31:35.000
Some of that is going to get directed at the United States. So my question is just, you know, can you talk a little more about how we might or might not expect to see to see some some shifts in those expected patterns.

495
01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:53.000
And then the question for Felipe is, I mean, in some ways, It doesn't seem that surprising that the Chinese auto companies have a reputation for being very good at producing low-cost, no frills cars for people with limited incomes.

496
01:31:53.000 --> 01:32:06.000
I mean that's not all they do but they're they're particularly good at that so it makes sense that that in Brazil which is not Europe which is not North America, that that might be who who comes in and takes over.

497
01:32:06.000 --> 01:32:13.000
What what might be more surprising is for Ford to be moving into China and attempting to compete in that market.

498
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:28.000
I mean, obviously China is going to become the world's largest market so Ford wants to be there but Fort only has at this point 3 or 4 plans and I'm wondering if Ford is going to stumble there in the way that they have in other parts of the world.

499
01:32:28.000 --> 01:32:43.000
I don't know if you have any any view on that. It goes beyond your own research. But first back to Leonardo with the North South question.

500
01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:55.000
Yeah, I try to address the question. Well, the purpose of this. Paper was, just to point out.

501
01:32:55.000 --> 01:33:06.000
The the place of Petrobras. And the union. A global union network of better graphs.

502
01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:19.000
Okay. The south and north. In which sense? Related to the cells.

503
01:33:19.000 --> 01:33:30.000
The examples coming from the union organization in oil. Secretary Brazil is a good example for Peru, Livia, etc.

504
01:33:30.000 --> 01:33:34.000
They don't have national

505
01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:51.000
Federations or national unions like CUT or Foop, etc. So the example made by CUP when, they decided to participate in this meetings.

506
01:33:51.000 --> 01:34:03.000
Throughout letting America was positive one in terms of organized organization for. Those unions in the South. Related to the North.

507
01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:15.000
I don't think it's a, is a sort of So, Awesome. The North of the South not relationship.

508
01:34:15.000 --> 01:34:25.000
It's just that The the Well, the propaganda, the the the discourse of the global union.

509
01:34:25.000 --> 01:34:32.000
Policy is that

510
01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:47.000
The unions were those transactions are located. In a good place to address problems towards the world where these companies move to.

511
01:34:47.000 --> 01:34:57.000
So when we look at this point, it's very interesting to notice that Brazilian companies, big companies.

512
01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:11.000
Can say Brazilian Transnationals are now moving to all the world. And According to the policy, Brazilian unions should help.

513
01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:20.000
The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, units where this company is located.

514
01:35:20.000 --> 01:35:30.000
So if you see from this perspective. Better bras as well as valley for example the famous mining big, big company.

515
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:48.000
They are setting, settling in very, well developed countries now. So why do you think if you look at the The Brazilian labor relations.

516
01:35:48.000 --> 01:36:00.000
You see that the example is not good. To export to test plan to. To not.

517
01:36:00.000 --> 01:36:27.000
Global North in this case. So that is very interesting. When the the unions for example look for help Looking at Brazil, although I'm I agree that Sometimes the labor The law and labor regulation in Brazil in case is sometimes more

518
01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:40.000
I mean, more. Close positive. In comparison to Americans for example, but We know that in order.

519
01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:52.000
In other case, it's like, the protection for the. People who are organizing in the shop floor.

520
01:36:52.000 --> 01:37:07.000
There's no such kind of right label right for example So. II just, I I'm I have not.

521
01:37:07.000 --> 01:37:18.000
Answer decisive answer to this question but I think we are in the middle of a very.

522
01:37:18.000 --> 01:37:30.000
80 point. Where you can see positive things. And you key also can also see negative aspects of this.

523
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:38.000
Place. That's this intermediate place. Where the is located.

524
01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:42.000
So not underdeveloped.

525
01:37:42.000 --> 01:38:09.000
Also not. Able to today in the world. There are good experts but not interested point about this is when we compare for example the the bank sector.

526
01:38:09.000 --> 01:38:29.000
We have a very interesting example studded by Gabrielle for example in the bank center where Hey, we were able to follow the global network of sons and their bank, Spanish Tenton Deer Bank.

527
01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:36.000
We have sent in that. In in North America we have in Brazil and we have in Spain.

528
01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:47.000
And in this case, in this kind of triangle. The 0 is just seeing as very good. 4 for American bank.

529
01:38:47.000 --> 01:38:58.000
Workers, employees because of our protection, our labor law. But on the other side Brazilian bank.

530
01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:11.000
Same place or workers see with very good eyes. Promising eyes the Spanish. Union News. The Spanish, code of work.

531
01:39:11.000 --> 01:39:23.000
A chatter so It's just a matter of See. To deal with this.

532
01:39:23.000 --> 01:39:26.000
Complexities.

533
01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:33.000
Yeah, that's a really helpful example. Felipe, I don't know if you had anything, any thoughts in response to my last question?

534
01:39:33.000 --> 01:39:43.000
Yes, I do have. I do have. F is a very erratic company. In their strategies.

535
01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:47.000
So a few years ago.

536
01:39:47.000 --> 01:40:01.000
Fold, started a partnership with Volkswagen. A partnership. To do what? Nobody really knows exactly what was that Buck partnership.

537
01:40:01.000 --> 01:40:10.000
Wasn't clear to anyone. And then Ford says Let's close some factories here and there.

538
01:40:10.000 --> 01:40:15.000
Let's go to time. So China. Was.

539
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:30.000
Before 2019 or 2018. Of China was part of Asia Pacific Afrik segments in in 4 divides the world in second, South America, North America.

540
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:43.000
You. Asia Pacific and Middle East. And now China, but China was part of Asia Pacific. They said, no, we must.

541
01:40:43.000 --> 01:40:53.000
We must create a new segment for China. China is very important for us. And then the president of all China is.

542
01:40:53.000 --> 01:41:00.000
The former president of South America, the one who who shut down all Brazilian factories. His name is Lyle Waxes.

543
01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:13.000
So food went to China. Let's produce cars. Let's.

544
01:41:13.000 --> 01:41:20.000
Let's do EVER research, R&amp;D, etc, etc. A few weeks ago.

545
01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:37.000
Ford announced a partnership with Tesla. To develop batteries. Which of course came as some surprise because photos is being it's been saying, for the past few years that Tesla is their main competitor.

546
01:41:37.000 --> 01:41:50.000
Not GM anymore. So the, are a bit erratic in the strategies. And a lot of things they do.

547
01:41:50.000 --> 01:41:58.000
Don't work. If you look at what they they are doing in Asia. I didn't exactly my presentation.

548
01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:11.000
Focus on that, but. If we see the data of employment in Asia. It grows a lot for 3 years.

549
01:42:11.000 --> 01:42:23.000
It doubles. And then it's cut by half. In one or 2 years later. So, really erratic especially in Asia.

550
01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:33.000
So we cannot even even say for sure if what they're trying to do in China will work or not.

551
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:51.000
It may work. May not. But they're really Anyway, it's a company that's actually shrinking if we see the data about market share in a global level, Yeah, that's it.

552
01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:59.000
Thank you. So we have the relative autonomy of corporate strategy. Ben Scully has the last question and then we'll thank the presenters.

553
01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:08.000
Ben Scully has the last question and then we'll thank the presenters although it seems like some of them will thank the presenters although it seems like some of them have left question and then we'll thank the presenters. And then we'll thank the presenters, although it seems like some of them have left. Yeah, I'm sorry.

554
01:43:08.000 --> 01:43:17.000
I'll thank the presenters, although it seems like some of them have left. Ca. Sorry, I know we're running out of time, but it's very fascinating discussion Felipe.

555
01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:18.000
And I just wanted to say it seems like one of the big trends that we can see is this kind of importance of national industrial policy and the way in which companies are engaging with it.

556
01:43:18.000 --> 01:43:30.000
You talked about neo-industrialization in Brazil or whatever. But you see the European countries moving the high-tech production to Europe for moving it to the US, although you're saying also to China.

557
01:43:30.000 --> 01:43:38.000
But then, so that it makes this Chinese strategy of going into Brazil very interesting and something else that I didn't mention in the South African cases.

558
01:43:38.000 --> 01:44:00.000
So there's a similar reorganization, Volkswagen. South Africa became Volkswagen Africa and they're essentially on this big push to try to establish partnerships with African countries to establish an auto manufacturing sector so they're going to Ghana, Kenya, a few other places and trying to

559
01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:21.000
get these kind of deals of industrial policy which will support production. So I mean I don't have a question necessarily but this is a fascinating combination between renationalization of these global companies and at the same time shopping around for sort of national industrial partnerships in the South.

560
01:44:21.000 --> 01:44:28.000
So it's like a moment for more industrial policy but also a moment where countries are putting competition with each other.

561
01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:38.000
I don't know if you have a comment on I was just these thoughts were sparked by your discussion of China's strategy.

562
01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:49.000
I'll quickly say 2 words. Because we were running out of time. The interesting thing here in Brazil is that It's a political question.

563
01:44:49.000 --> 01:45:05.000
It's a very important political question. Because in the last 4 more years. Since, President Duma was was impeached.

564
01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:16.000
We don't actually have much of a industrial policy in Brazil. And now with, the new government with President's Lula.

565
01:45:16.000 --> 01:45:31.000
Coming back to power. It seems we will have It's not really clear what will be, the new industrialization, but It seems we will have

566
01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:42.000
Some policies for. For industrialization in Brazil. Which is really important in this moment.

567
01:45:42.000 --> 01:45:55.000
Okay, well, let's thank our wonderful presenters who are in the late in the evening in Brazil, late in the evening in Brazil taking part in this activity.

568
01:45:55.000 --> 01:45:58.000
Thank you. And a 10Â min break and then the next session.