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so anyway, we can start right now.

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So thank you everybody to to be here to join us. I'm Stefan Mueller. I will be during this session, but I'm not the organizer of the station, so I am welcoming my Anat to, to, to, to say a few words, to present the session.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Thank you first of all, thank you to you, because you are. I mean I I'm in Monocytes. I couldn't travel to Melbourne, so it it's it's great to have the Stefan help to share this session a inside.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Well, I introduced myself from Argentina I live in from Argentina I live in, I'm from the Latin American School of Social Sciences, and I'm the session organizer. I organize the the title of this session is emotions, subjectivities, and so so dynamics of inequalities.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: well, I organized decision. Because, I like to proliferize the role of emotion in the production and reproduction of social inequalities in in its different aspects.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: and it is a topic that is in the heart of the sociology of the motions. We can see a lot of the theories that address that point. And I would like to recover that a discussion. And

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: we can see today? A, we have, we received several presentation, and we we select 5 say we have

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: for that. We are going to be sent it today because one of the presenter couldn't be here, and a well I we have regarding this, the the session. We will respect the order of the program.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: a. Each of the presenter have 1570 min, May, and then we left a time to discuss on the question and comments of the person that are online that could be. They can also write their question or comments in in the chat. And then the question that is, Stefan, can.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: and bring from the the person that the person that are there in the in the room.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: And so we start with the Sara. I'm a cook such a present presentation. It's okay.

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yes, yes, just to just a a a few more words, to, to be sure. How we organize is not here. We we could add that 5 min more for each presentation, to, to, to, to, to, to have more more questions specific to to each pre presentation. What? What do what we do thing.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Okay, it's not there. I thought she was.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: We we can. We can each present day each. At the beginning. It was 15 min for each presentation. But we can have it.

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They will allow 20 min. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there, there will be lots of time at the end for many questions, but we can devote also specific questions to each panelist.

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So

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it's a share screen.

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Next present, you know, zoom presentation.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Screen sharing.

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Thank you.

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I guess I'll start by thanking Mariana Online and Stefan here for organizing and sharing the session this morning. thanks for everyone who has come. I know it's 1030 on a Saturday on the last day of a long conference. So I really appreciate those who've come in person. and who are joining us online. And I'm also really looking forward to hearing the other speakers this morning, too.

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before any go before I go any further, I'd like to start by acknowledging that we're meeting this morning on the stolen lands of the war injury? Why, we're on people

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of the coordination. I feel really weird doing that in a casino? I think it's worth acknowledging that. And I wanted to reflect this wanting a little bit on the really excellent key plenary from Bronwyn Castle the other morning sorry on Wednesday afternoon, who spoke really eloquently about the complexities of emotion like

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disgust and shame and guilt that settlers express when we talk about disposition of first nations, people in these lands. And I think that's a really important place to start from this morning.

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So while I'm not gonna be, actively speaking, about men's violence this morning my work is positioned in the context of preventing gendered violence, and that kind of sets the backdrop for my paper and for my own position. So I just want to flag that at the start. And today I'm going to be talking through some of the findings from my Phd research. which was past 2 weeks ago. And I'm going to be arguing for a return to feminist theorizing. For how we understand men's engagements with

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masculinity, gendered power, emotion, and intersecting forms of aggression.

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So masculinity, scholarship, and the prevention literature have both recently been critiqued for decentering feminist social theory and attention to the social and political processes of gender

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encountering this tendency is important because we need conceptual and empirical approaches that can hold together individual and collective experiences with gendered power and inequalities in ways that signify pathways for change and nonviolence.

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And it's in this space that I find to find Sarah Ahmad's work on emotion, politics, norms, and the orientation of bodies can attend to some of these gaps to summarize as eloquently as I can. Armage shows how particular social forms, such as whiteness, heterosexuality, and binary gender expressions like masculinity and femininity, can become sticky through repetition and the circulation of emotions throughout social life.

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Ahmed argues that emotions serve a political function in concealing these histories of repetition and normalization, so that those social forms actually feel natural, intimate, and unchangeable.

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and masculinity scholars like Bob Peye, Amanda Ketti, Caliberg, and and Lucas Gotson have further examined how affect and emotion can support nuanced, nuanced analyses of men's lived experiences alongside violence, power, and privilege.

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And it's within this body of work where masculinity itself is understood and conceptualized as inextricably relational, and an object of deep emotion. and others such as Chris Beasley, Andrea, Whaling, and Brittany. Ralph have argued convincingly to return our attention to the contradictory potentials of men's agency within patriarchy and the discourses of masculinity

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that needs to be informed by feminist accounts and understandings of reflexivity relationality gender and power. So I'm arguing that it's through this approach reflexivity can open up a relational autonomy of men to navigate their emotional attachments to gendered selves, social worlds and relationships.

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And this is the conceptual approach that I took in my doctoral thesis to explore how men in Australia engage with, reflect on and actively negotiate the sticky processes of normative masculinity.

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I'm speaking this morning specifically to data that comes from a a set of photo voice interviews that I conducted between December 2020 and March 2021. So it was online because we're in the middle of a pandemic. And in Melbourne we have been at home for a very long time, doing an alignment that I was able to open up the participation to further afield. And so I was able to get some men to interview some, and who are coming from other parts of Australia, which was really great.

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and for the photo voice component component of the interview. I had a few prompts around men's experiences of connection change

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Their ideas about self for identity and their understandings, understandings of masculinity, and that activity was embedded within a longer semi-structured interview guide and I spoke to my methods more on Wednesday. So I'm I'm going to try and skim through this a bit quicker.

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So I interviewed 33 identifying men who are aged 25 to 39, and who were living in Australia at the time of the research, and I wanted to keep that fairly broad, so that I could try and capture a a diversity of experiences with masculinity. And it did mean that. You know, I had someone who identified as a trans man as well as people who had different cultural and linguistic backgrounds as well

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as you can see from this profile here. It was a relatively privileged group of men who were all pretty comfortably within a middle class position. and I don't know why that's come up, and I can't get rid of it.

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I can't get rid of it. Sorry? Thank you. yeah. A relatively privileged group of men, fairly middle class, predominantly white, predominantly heterosexual, but not all, and mostly tertiary, educated And even though there was this clear dynamic of gender and class and racial privilege. There were also really complex dynamics of power and complicity and resistance to normative masculinity and gendered violence that came through the interviews as well.

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There we go.

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So the ways in which men in this study articulated their perceived distance from, or proximity to, normative normative masculinity wove together the complexities of bodies, discourse, emotion, and subjectivity.

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and men's reflections also demonstrated how their attachments to masculinity could be understood as felt experiences of emotion and comfort or discomfort, within which the sticky work of normativity and masculine privilege can become visible.

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So as feminist writers like Claire Hemings, and again, Sarah Ahmed have highlighted discomfort itself can be productive of personal transformations within normalized social worlds. And to this end Ahmad argues that. And I'm quoting here. Discomfort is hence not about assimilation or resistance, but about inhabiting norms differently.

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So, in other words, the potential to rework norms in part sits with the recognition that there are gaps between Norman experience and that those gaps can be a source of tangible discomfort or friction which could lead to resistance, or it might not.

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and some of the men that I spoke to were grappling with whether and how they might be positioned as real men in line with the gendered cultural ideals of masculinity within Australia.

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and specifically within white masculinity. And it's within this reflexive and relational space that these men were questioning the associations between the personal and the social.

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So, for example, to take these 2 quotes here in reflecting on masculine tropes like strength and control.

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Oliver said, I feel like they never truly sat with my authentic self anyway in the past, but I felt like I was trying to bend myself into some of those things, and thankfully, I'm with people around me and in a position, and I've done work on myself where I don't feel like that's who I need to be.

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So, for men like Oliver and other men voice these kind of reflections as well. having people around him that showed different ways of being, and supported the just those different ways. And often women partners was a really important strategy for resisting those kind of rigid norms of masculinity that he felt like he didn't fit within

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for David as well. There were inherent tensions within normative masculinity that led to limited capacity and support for his own emotional expression. And these were really strong emotional experiences that indicated gaps or friction between his sense of self and the off-active script of permissible gender performance for men

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so like Oliver, David also commented that through time therapy and developing supportive relationships such as with his partner he was able to surpass those effective tensions, and in his own words, to feel more comprehensive as a man and as a human being together.

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So for men like Oliver and David, that emotional process of navigating masculinity eventually led to recognizing their own capacity for choice in being able to transgress and move beyond those norms that they felt like they didn't fit.

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So feminist theory has long emphasized the comfort that comes with embodying structural privilege. And as armoured, argues privilege within normativity. And this is a quote functions as a form of comfort by allowing bodies to extend into spaces that have already taken their shape.

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This perspective was noted by some men like Louis Noel.

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Who? Who commented. That straight dude is the water that we all swim in. That's one of my favorite quotes. So, for example, Casper reflected that his own positioning as a man and specifically as a straight white man with muscles and a beard

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could contribute to this lack of clarity that he was kind of articulating around masculinity. So he suggested, maybe that's one attribute of being a man. It doesn't really have to matter to you, because no one's like, Oh, look over there! There's a man you don't have to prove that you're a man, so I don't really feel like it ever comes up.

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Privilege in this way can enable men like Kaspar, who do reflect that Norm, to some extent again cisgender, white, able-bodied, and often heterosexual, to live comfortably within a heteronormative and patriarchal society, and this can further produce feelings of ambivalence as to whether and how gender matters.

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so that kind of sentiment or ambivalence was also evident in the way that some men rejected ideas of social pressure, and in the interviews asserted their feelings of independence from the norm

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like victors, and Seth's comments here illustrate

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importantly, though independent, and so independence and self-s sovereignty are also closely linked with masculinity in Australia as previous research in this space as highlighted. And here I'm thinking of works from Carla, Elliot, Steve Roberts, and Brittany. Ralph over at monash.

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so, acting upon personal choices in this contact context, draws upon the existing power of normative masculinity that already enables some men to go their own way on well-established paths, or to swim freely in the straight, dude water of social life

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for other men in the study, though the presence of multiple intersecting structures like gender, race and whiteness, class and sexuality produced additional strains and discomfort, or even danger.

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But at the same time, and as Carla Elliott has argued through reference to dole hooks work. This exclusion from the normative center can actually in itself be a source of agency.

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So, for example, Duster, who identified as a queer man with a trans experience explained how he had worked to. He works to embody a butch masculinity as a way of resisting the rigidity and limitations of heteromasculinity that he felt.

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and here he spoke to the aesthetics of butchness alongside building relations of mutual care.

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and at the same time he recognized that there was an ongoing tension in his continued idealizing of a traditional, masculine and muscular body.

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So in Dustin's words, even though I can recognize that desire as socially constructed and influenced, and that it's kind of problematic. That doesn't mean I can stop feeling it

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so. In other words, holding a critical feminist awareness of how normative ideals are constructed, reinforced, and how we come to be invested in them, doesn't stop the desire that men, like all of us, might feel for gender norms and stereotypes. And this isn't something that necessarily should be demonized or stigmatized.

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So, conversely, in Savvy's experience, who was a straight second-generation Australian of South Asian background.

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Feelings of affective dissonance had closely shaped his efforts to navigate masculinity, and it was inherently and very closely tied up in the whiteness of Australian society that he had grown up within.

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So, as Savi says here, masculinity for me is colored masculinity. It's about guys of color and what masculinity means to us what we're allowed to be, what we're not allowed to be, what we're meant to be. But I'm fortunate because I've been swimming in a different ocean for a long time as well.

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So these comments indicate that Savi's understandings of masculinity have been closely defined by exclusionary terms about men of color in Australia. and turning away from those racist stereotypes and resisting the positioning by others as a threat. Savvy has worked reflexively over his life, to be soft and gentle, and to ensure that others perceive him that way, too, and that's also a a safety mechanism for himself.

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At the same time he recognized that that emphasis to resist policing by that white kind of gaze had ultimately led to to developing his own strengths like communication and empathy.

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So for men like dusty and savvy, dustin, and savvy affective tensions are part of the reflexive process through which they've been resisting gendered normativity and other structures of oppression and creating alternative subject positions that are premised on care and connection.

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So men in this study frequently articulated an awareness of the associations between masculinity and gendered violence. But for some of those men discussing men's violence was are used as a way to distance themselves from a majority of masculinity or for masculinity as pejorative.

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So Philippe's comments here, for example, locate men's violence as the bad behavior of footy players, and he's using the example of Nrl. Or National Rugby League, which is a code frequently left linked with a working class masculinity and working class violence in Australia.

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And for Philippe that was a real othering strategy, as someone who was quite comfortably a middle class

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awesome. And this kind of pattern has been identified in a number of other studies like those that utilize. tr. Student bridges and C. J. Pasco's work on hybrid masculinity.

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So this perspective is distinct from the reflections offered by other men. Here am using Hector and Max's examples, who acknowledged how, as men, they themselves might represent the threat of gender violence.

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and for some this recognition did stem from personal experiences of violence from other men throughout their lifetimes. And as hectic comments here, women often also played a central role in men's realization that they might be the threat.

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So for Max there were clear, affective patterns of masculine dominance that he had been socialized into throughout his life.

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He explains how, basically, just by living, I got a course in how to assume domination, and I do have the capacity for violence, and it has come out as a threat in moments.

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It's a continuous strain, and it's something I think about with just day to day interactions. And I think it's simmering.

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So this language is so laced with that kind of affective tension that Max experiences as a man within masculinity. Thank you.

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The Max returned to this language of strain, tension, and simmering conflict at multiple points throughout the interview, and that they were kind of key moments in which he tried to orient himself away from that whole of normative masculinity.

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And, importantly, these perspectives, on being a threat also differing clear ways from Savvy's own experiences of resisting the subjective processes, subjecting processes of whiteness and gender.

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As his earlier comments illustrated normative associations between masculinity and violence circulate around some bodies more than others.

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So I've argued that the articulations of masculinity, privilege, and violence that I've shared today demonstrate how men can be reflexively aware of their own power within gendered norms and discourse, and of the lived experience of actively negotiating those positions.

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Following the work of other feminist scholars. I've also argued that structural privilege can be experienced as comfort and ambivalence which both conceals normativity and leads to assumptions of autonomy, and these are the processes that we need to disrupt. If we want to prevent gender violence in the long term, and build connections of shared solidarity

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and in terms of prevention and harnessing these affective tensions for social change, I think a question remains as to how we might better encourage and support men in ways of being that don't follow quick, rigid, cultural imperatives. And this is where recent work on a pedagogy of discomfort from people like Amanda, Katy, and and other pedagogy scholars is important for thinking through pathways to social justice.

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So by engaging with men's experiences of feeling outside the norm, we can identify one such pathway through which established social forms can be reworked and transformed in everyday life.

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Thank you.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Thank you, Sara.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Hmm!

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: The image is frozen, isn't it

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: for me? Just for me. No, no, no.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: we have a problem connection.

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Hmm.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: hello. Sara Stefan.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Oh.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: we wait a little bit. Let's see if they can.

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Sorry we we had a problem. We unfortunately left the meeting

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by mistakes. So so thank you so much for this wonderful presentation. We we have a a a a bit time to to ask questions. So I I'm starting with a very, very short one. did you? A. And kind of mixed feelings. I mean you. You know people who are masculine in in settings fares of life, for example, sports, and also feminine.

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I mean all the those first of of life, I mean sexuality, or so did did, did did it? Did it? Did it? Did it? Did it? it did it? so that that's that will be one question we can collect, maybe

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2 or 3 questions since we have time.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I don't know if any person online

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: like to make question to Sara, I can.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I have one question to.

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Okay.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Sarah, I you like to know, you focused on privilege. A man

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: it's indeed.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: And I like to know if you have thought to to explore this kind of negotiation of gender positions in another social sectors you mentioned a, for example, the the A people, the workers, or the lower E social classes, and

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I maybe I I lost that part in your presentation. But I would like to know why you choose the privilege to men, and if you, if you have another ipothesis, a what is happening in other social sectors.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I don't. Maybe it's going to be on your request. But

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: if you have any any

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okay, thank you for the questions.

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I feel like I can answer all of this. So it's nice. So I'll start with those absolutely. They were really mixed feelings. And When I was asking men what they thought about masculinity, and then kind of contrasting that with, what do you think about femininity? Quite often they got really stuck with trying to distinguish between those, and particularly

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being confronted with that gap between. Well, this is what I think that this is what I know the norm might be.

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They found themselves trying to talk through. Well, What do I think? And how is that different? And because I don't want to. Often I don't want to put women in this box of having to be that traditional stereotypical femininity. And I think that men can

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do feminine things as well. And there's such a growing discourse around caring masculinity and men as caring. But there's tensions there as to whether that's

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how that's specifically masculine as opposed to feminine, so absolutely. Men experience those. And you mentioned sport, which is a good example. I had a couple of men that I spoke to who had grown up playing Australian football, Australian National

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afl for those in the room and had talked about how, when they were doing that as sort of 1718 year olds. They felt like they had to be the biggest, the toughest, and they felt this aggression kind of leave them over the time. They might have had a break from the sport, and then come back to play it in another 10 years, and felt like they

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one does. One person described it as feeling really dirty after the game, because he felt himself slipped back into that way of being, and it was so different from how he wanted to be as a person now. So yeah, there was those kind of tensions between ways of inhabiting those masculine norms. For sure, it's a really good question.

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to your questions, Marianne, about the cohort. So I I was not prescriptive at all about what kind of men I was hoping to speak to with the sample part of that was just a a strategy for a Ph. D. In the pandemic. What's the easiest? what's the best way to kind of recruit, and I,

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wasn't going necessarily for men, a group of men

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who represented that level of privilege. But it turned out to be really valuable for the

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to to, to to the analysis, because they were these really interesting. Out in the thesis I write more about how a lot of these men kind of wanted to position themselves as good men who were doing work for gender equality, or who believed in gender equality, but weren't necessarily following that up with collective, or, you know, efforts to challenge those structural levels of inequality. So there's this kind of tension between what does it mean to be a good man. and to have power in that space.

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Absolutely. I think it's a valuable approach to do this kind of research with men from different cohorts, particularly from marginalized groups that are often harder to access. But I think

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I keep talking about the but Steve Roberts in Colorado it make a really good point about how so often masculinity studies and in the violence spaces focused on working class men in a way that constructs working classmen or men of color, or men from refugee and migrant communities as the bearers of violence, and it means that that privilege that the others carry doesn't get interrogated. So that was kind of important to me as well.

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Yeah.

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I hand over to the next spake, I know I line. It's got a hand out. But

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: okay, thank you.

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Yeah, yeah. Okay.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Thank you.

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Hi, Sarah, big fan.

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So you talked about this a little bit in your findings. But I'm wondering if you can extend more on Yeah. The way that men in your study felt about their relative privilege regarding like whiteness, or class or education, and how that related to their feelings of being different to other men, or their feelings about their own masculinity, and how that, how they shaped themselves regarding

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yeah regarding their relative privilege. So this maybe develops on from Mariano's question.

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That's a really good question. Thanks, Lena.

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Men were unsurprisingly they articulated their awareness of their own privilege in quite different ways. So some were really reflexive about it, and really critically aware of how it linked to kind of structural

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patterns of inequality linked to whiteness and masculinity or gender patriarchy, but others

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it felt like it was kind of a growing language of being able to talk about privilege for that particular cohort, so they might say. Like, I can recognize that as a man I have privilege, and as a white man I have a certain privilege, and

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as As a straight man, I have certain privilege, but they were really grappling with how that would translate into everyday actions, or changing the way that they operate within the world. So it was a real point of uncertainty for a lot of men and

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Mit. Ctl, and they might talk about doing things like trying to elevate women in the workplace, or trying to be mindful of how they move around public spaces and not taking up space. So being aware of how they might be kind of assumed as the dominant person in the room. But yeah, they were really grappling with what to actually do with an acknowledgment of privilege when it was there, and it certainly wasn't a universal acknowledgment one.

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And it was interesting that you mentioned a few different kind of dimensions of privilege in your question, because, yeah, it certainly didn't necessarily filter down to all of those different things like class. for example, was not something that was, I think, well recognized among a lot of the men that they spoke to

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ability. You know those those are.

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I want to say more invisible. But I'm not sure that it is. But yet. And did that answer your question.

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Okay, I'm going to let someone else speak. Thank you.

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So thank you so much. And

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we are going on with Roberta Priscilla with online. I appreciate

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she's she. Yeah, she's on mine. How? You yeah.

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yeah, we'll just let them share your presentation.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: She she doesn't have a presentation, isn't it? They don't have a presentation. She would speak so.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Okay.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: thanks a lot for being here, and my paper I am

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: a.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: I propose that body and emotions belong to an objective mechanism that contributes to gender orders maintenance because it lets you demise to naturalize it.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: This force us to ask ourselves about the corporeal effective work behind a socialization process by gender.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: For this I start from a dispositional perspective, using as a reference peerboard view and Bernard Layer works. This is because they are focused on the sensitive and sensorial dimension of the bodies in the framework of the concrete social logics. In some this proposal embraces 4 interrelated aspects that look for real life.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: The body and emotions work in the framework of the socialization process by gender with the purpose of a

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: generate an approach of gender identities on this positional and relational terms, like corporeal effective practices and experiences, and we conceptualize properly the legitimation mechanism that helps to the gender ordering's reproduction with the purpose of follow off the discussions initiated by Pierre Bodieu about the relationship of affectivity and domination.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: The aspects I refer are. first, the place of gender inside that dispositional sociology to the theoretical foundation of the gender identities as a sex avenues.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: First, the corporeal, effective implication work that underlies gender socialization processes and then naturalizing effect on the gender identities

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: a bit on this positional sociology. Nowadays the problem of individuality has come on the scene with a relative force in the framework of sociological discussions, especially with regard to recent debates in France.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Kirkoff, just like Martccelli's trace in the emergence and the development of different sociologies, which, while they are differing among themselves, take the socialized individual as the option of a study, even if from different concerns. To those refer to any classic sociology.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: it's the case of you.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Layer's work is inscribed in a new sociological project, where, in his son Warren's items and I quote to go, be shown to Mayor real realistic invocation as part of the past, taking as the object, the constitution of a social mode of the past.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: along with the ways in which this past unfolds, transfers updates.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: or deactivates the present. In fact, this shelter calls his son work dispositional sociology, and those Bills Bridge were Borneo's work

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: which he defines abilities as a system of dispositions, and introduce a dispositional perspective that serves as a basis for his own work, but on an individual scale, and oriented to work plurality ahead of the unity of the dispositions of choir.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Another relevant work in this respect

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: is back in, for example, and in spite of the fact that he had never collaborated with layer, and that they even mutually criticize each other, has provided continuity for produce work.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: He mentioned several problems concerning sociology based on dispositional actions.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: even though in his sound terms, since he called this corporeal mental sociology.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: or one of flesh and blood. This proposal is articulated from dialectical logic brought up by Purdue between Asian and structure.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: but back on fine tunes, epistemological, theoretical, and methodological considerations of human beings and their relations. In this way his sociology of flesh is center, and the reconstruction of this domains of socialization by me of which we acquired these decisions, since it is the only way we can study the action of

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: in construction. This is the reason why, even with their difference, which I will address later on, all 3 can be group as part of this positional perspective that I threat in this paper

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: the ordering of gender in the dispositional mode.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: If we consider what Bordeaux B can allege, have to say about gender, we can appreciate the Diesel relations have been taking into account in 2 ways as a social ordering on the one hand, and on the other as a sociological variable. That accounts for distinctive

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: practices between men and women.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: In the first case a central reference in produce book

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: that domination must dominate domination, and in the second case the outer combines this variable with the class variable in works such as a distinction.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Well, the cannon layer mentioned particular forms of masculinity, such as the boxer or sex abuse that are behind different a to use and practices.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: I will spend more time on produce work. He provides the theoretical precepts that are to guide layer, and I can, although I will, make some critical observations with respect to these last 2 outers, work

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: throughout his work. Purdue paid attention to gender ordering and to the type of relations that exists between men and women. They arrive from this consideration, as the saliva seen points out, this interest comes to basically from his training in anthropology

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: in this book, and making use of no graphic work he did in Algeria. We're doing this, that gender operates as a k distinction through which the social world, because intelligible. First of all in our bodies.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: this type of symbolic violence makes the world an individuals have gender choices and in inequalities and appear before our very eyes something natural.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: But this is not all. Not only does the centrocentric principle organize societies

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: objectively and subjectively, but the activities, objects, and resources available. The moments and places are stamped by the distinctive marath of what is masculine equals, superior, and what is feminine, equal, inferior.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: And this is why sexual division of work was ahead of the social division.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Besides individuals who were to be classified after an arbitrary reading of what is biological, thus acquiring one of the sexes avenues available through a broad and silence process of socialization.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Thus to learn to act as a man or a woman

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: will depend on the incorporation of the andro-centric principle as a shame, a perception note in action, as well

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: as well as on the inclination of a corporal axis, which, if we found on identity, will help to distinguish men from women.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Now, what happened with a back end, and layers work

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: both coincide and believe in produce stories about gender. They recognizes the principle of vision and division of the social world that organize

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: activities and distributes all types of resources differentially and become sparse

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: of a avenues that has different these positions and practice for men and women.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: But for this paper I will add one criticism that has to do with the process of socialization and affectivity. Even though we're doing cease. The gender identities are at choir over time in a long process of corporal socialization, where the androcentric principle we have already mentioned is incubated

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Ilusha of masculine primacy. He doesn't develop this topic, and much less considers the roles. The effective dimension place. Moreover, I feel that here first few

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: conceptual resources to address this topic. nevertheless, to state this, it will be necessary to review some elements of dispositional

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: sociology which we will do in the first part of this paper.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: socialization and Affectivity.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: There are various elements in produce, this position of sociology that trace a link between emotion, disposition, and domination.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: In this part I will devote more attention to the model of corporal action that under lies avenues, then, that the relationship between Avitus illegal and illus you, and then finally on voted to body socialization. For, according to this theory, this positions in effort to provide details or regarding this link that has already been mentioned

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: by defining avenues as a system of durable and transferable these positions? Where do you introduce a dispositional perspective that refer to the capacity bodies have for committing themselves to the world. Amitus in this corporal state has been at choir, and comes as a second nation.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: It is a power inscribed in bodies that can only be realized by interacting with the world and by exposure to it.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: This body has become a reservoir of experience and practical knowledge accumulated over the years that are reactivated and redefined in a true comfort situations.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Now this bodily knowledge is only at choir after a long time, exposure to the regularities of the social world through silent but highly efficient work.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: where socialization Asians are a key factors. Since this type of socialization is relate to the imitation of that which is prestigious.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: From here it seems idea that the category of avenues connects, and motions and disposition in 2 ways.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: first, as an effective investment of social order, and, second, within the framework of processes by means of which agents acquire it as long as effective links are established among those who are socialized and the different agents of socialization which are fundamental in the implication of avenues is to be effective

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: regarding effective investments. It is worth pointing out that we do use to terms illustrial and libido. The first accounts for a desire to participate in the social game.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: whatever it might be, while the second one refers to a series of desires that counts into play in a social game, a, specifically.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: thus, there's a commitment with social codes that becomes terms of effective energy that is, live as socialize. Libya.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: for example, in the masculine domination he says.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: this socialized Libya predisposed men to love games of power, and women to love a male who play them.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: On the other hand, with respect to the ties between disposition, emotion, and process of socialization.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: what do you mentioned that there is a network predisposition in humans, beings

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: to learn. And this is related to bodies opening to the world

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: in a phenomenological sense. Yes, but also historical, where we acquire these positions. Hence the definition of this position is not anything else but the exposure of our bodies to regularities of the social world.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: So this leads us to point out that what is social is part of the logics of feelings due to a dynamic of mutual recognition, where it's clear that social order is painful.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: thus reduce Levito has been socialized.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: Psychic drives are channelled in virtual social gangs from the design bowling framework, where individuals are insert, and, above all, on the domestic scenes.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: This premise was also recognized by by count, for on humans are beings feel and suffer.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: In this position on sociology, we find a relation that connections this position

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: that connects these positions, learning and emotion, through a model of a

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: on a prestigious body to body imitation.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: But we can go beyond the effective dimension and process of domination by pointing out that social aspects are incorporated through effective transactions with others, to recognize and be recognized as basic for playing any social game, and therefore I go like to add, or different social orders, as symmetries become part of the bodies that feel these emotions

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: as shame in relation, shyness, and shitty culpability, or of passions and feelings, love, admiration, respect, etc.

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As can be seen, it will be the time to conclude. So if you

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could, you do it for 1 min, maybe one. Okay, thanks. As can be saying, we have 2 ways of of of connecting emotions and domination with this.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: So how? How we can we articulate this elements under a theoretical framework that will allow us to threat affectivity as a lasting support of gender identities and those rich. How we, this positional diagnosis, I propose to ship this through to access which are interrelated

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: the first analytical reconstruction of the network of social, effective interdependencies as a starting up point for the processes of socialization by gender

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: and to the effective dimension of sex abuse, subjective desires and hopes, that which will allow us to define a commitment to gender

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: ordering. and

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: thus but effective investments in social orders, body-body socialization, and the link them can be woven with respect to dominations, as address by Bordeaux.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: can be put forward as topics of discussion with the contributions made by a layer

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: and back to dyspotional sociology. But now, with regard to gender under cities a code that goes through the body, emotions and affections of

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: individuals. A. In conclusion. a.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: I emphasize the main analytical resources that offer this positional perspective regarding the relation of emotion and domination. Thus the turn savages, prestigious imitation and illus, you contribute to the formulation 150

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: of the read that discuss the ways in which we life, social and human beings.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: This means that this

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: aspects a contribute to one of the central concerts. That is a common

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: participation in this. a meeting.

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PRISCILA CEDILLO: how the power and emotional code about masculine domination! Thank you.

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Thank you so much for this. very interesting theoretical discussion. I I would propose to go on with the next presentation, and we'll collect the the the questions for your presentation after the the 2 of those. is it correct? So thank you so much. And I I will ask, who

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are you

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: to you, you

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yep. The second one wasn't there. that's you that.

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And this one.

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okay.

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some video panel. I'm just going to hide this story

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needing controls.

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And

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Hi, everyone. I'm glad delighted to be here and thank you for coming today.

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My name is Julia Leo. I'm a second-year Phd. Researcher of Sociology at City University of London.

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and my presentation is about the rise of the life otherwise influencer and the self-branding practice in post of family to culture.

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and at the beginning I would like to give you an outline on my plantation. First I will introduce the background of Sha Hong Shu, that I will elaborate of a femin in contemporary China, social media influencers, self-funding, and the post of feminism, lifestyle coaches at the type of celebrated failing roads in postal families that called her research methods and family discussion.

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The Horseshoe is a social media platform in China. It encourage its users to share their shopping and the shopping recommendations. Life experience.

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Yeah. And the other professional skills

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the registered users onshore. Hong Shu is the 450 million.

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as or may, the 2,020, nearly 70% host that homes shoots out to a user are under 35 years old, nearly 90% who users living in big cities. 80% of females.

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and there is a new type of influencer emerge on their horseshoe. They provide the life

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still. Otherwise the title of their media post are below and the topic of their

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oh, their media poster covers the mental health just and the relationship dialty and the beauty.

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so it's an almost across the atmosphere of female's life.

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under this kind of influencer can be called a life otherwise influencer.

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And currently

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Actually, there, there are various phenomena around the feminatic has been discussed in and Chinese online environment. So for example, some restructure, the and intern or the and in several new worlds, one who? Yeah, it means the micro celebrities. They are all faced.

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and the saga is another Chinese world. It means relying and rely on others. Love and behave like a spoiled child.

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Cotton is is another feminality, it extends the same, and it as the traditional image of female

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with vulnerability and innocent.

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However, Internet culture can change rapidly, and there is still local. research about current and Chinese femininity. A little attempt to explore the new femininity of young females in China. But I think maybe there is more space

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can be discussed about these issues. So my first stories are crutch hands about what kind of feminine do life for the wise influencers construct onshaw? What are the museums in these constructions?

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 social media influencers and the self-branding are mutually dependent so as like influencers manage their image as a personal brand.

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Self-branding is a close like Linked with gender discourse. Especially the logic of post of feminism. goods in self-expression, personal tries.

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and and the consumption independent.

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Which is the worst to explore. So my second question is, how do life otherwise. Influencers combine this seminar with their self-branding on the little red book. The nickname of Zhang Shu.

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And the the 2 2,010 argues. The celebrity under its culture is not generated. Generate

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generator spontaneously.

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you understand, as it cultivated subtly and elaborately. To achieve social control by name of freedom.

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So the influence of celebrated ideal citizens can be cultivated under the wellness of the government. Celebrities are powerless.

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please.

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So the final question is, how do followers think about otherwise provided by life, or the wise influencers? And how do their followers apply it to their everyday lives?

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My theoretical framework is based on postal feminism and also combined hawk shells. The concept of failing roads. Villian roads exist in every activities. It unifies what emotion people should generate in specific context.

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can I? Can I? I will, that young female.

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a product to fit a different kinds of failing loads they try to. They should be

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present specific feelings in a different environment and different feelings on which deviator from the track should be regulated in the right way.

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and the currently postal family. Still, research also a paid more. has paid more and more attention on the effective and the psychic life of female

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And according to my different research credentials, I designed different research methods. what kind of semantics do life otherwise? Influencers construct on cell Hong Shu. How do life, for otherwise influencers combined its feminities with their self-branding on cell horseshoe. To address these questions I will analyze 30 influencers with your post.

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and what had the missing or life otherwise? Influencers? Video poster

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a.

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I will explore it. I explore it by analyzing this 100 and title of influencers, video posts.

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What audiences think about otherwise provided by life, otherwise influencer! And how do they apply it to their hour that their life? I interview the 25 followers of life, otherwise influencer

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to figure it out.

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And for stuff a fossil I collated 25, a life otherwise influencer.

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Through a topped 5 500 influencers listed in the infection categories of Zhang Shu. Actually this this list can generate like a can generated on Ziyanghong data platform. It is a a platform that allow us to generate a different top-ranking influencer list. According to the number of their followers.

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and in different categories, such as the travel for the fashion, and the more so the infection categories that can and can calculate

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includes most of the life otherwise influencer. After getting 20 female life, otherwise influencer.

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I also collected a start and noise to video posts up of this each of these or each like for the wise influencer. So totally I have. I got a a hundred video posts. and so I I analyze the the title. Oh, this is a third Cisco Android video composer.

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then from this 30 600 video posts.

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I chose the started of them to analyze the video and the speech information of this video.

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finally, I

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based on on this 20 life, otherwise influencer. I I found their follow or list.

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So I contacted this followers. By their private and through private message to their sell on shore account.

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So my funnier is as the emotion logic compost. The family zone has permeated into digital culture and life, otherwise influencer introduced a threat of failing disciplines to the public

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the life for the West influencer and the the culture is the subway of neoliberal governmentality, which, from constructions for both female influencers and female audiences.

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 that's hard. Thank you for your listening.

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Thank you very much.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I think we have the last presentation.

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Yeah, yeah, we we can go. But she. She didn't take her all the time she she had. So maybe we could collect one or 2 questions before going to the to the last presentation.

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: She only took 10 min.

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What? Yes, yes, she she was the

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Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: she was. The presentation was sorted. But I think it's better to continue with the presentation, and then we make it out of common. So collect your questions, for for just after the last presentation, so, Ali, could you share your presentation if you have one.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Yes.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez:  thank you.

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You can stop.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Okay.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: thank you very much. Good afternoon. Good morning, or good night.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: for me, it's good night. thank you very much for this chance to share with you a part of my research which I'm developing in the military to this Phd. Program of the University.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: and with the

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Institutional Seminar on Sociology of a Motion of the National University of Mexico. I'm very happy to be here.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: This analytical exercise is part of my doctoral thesis about the settlement process of endurance in Madrid and in Mexico City. My research is a qualitative is to the case based on 16 narrative interviews with under an immense in both places.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: and involves participant observation and documental revision of laws and policies. the analysis that I present today had the intention to explore what the motion provide to the analysis of the settlement process of immigrants and the inequality dynamics in it.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez:  For this I conducted 8 interviews in Mexico City and 18 months. The interview look for a free elaboration of the immigrants under the premise. Tell me about your experience making your life in Mexico City or Madrid.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: The free narrative of the immigrants was complemented with the specific question about the strategical areas. Also, I ask a specific questions related to the emotional dimension of the experience.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: The word that I present today is based on 300 extracts of this interviews character, insight by the explicit or indirect mention of fear, sadness, and your or joy.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Now I will mention 2 theoretical premises that guide this work. I understand the settlement experience as the process of the Midlands making a life in a place different from there.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Place of a region. This process involves dynamics of inequality, push by the socio-political condition of the context of reception and the impulse that the governmental so see it so societal an ethical content context creates a mode of incorporation with differentially promote

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: or restrict the settlement of the immigrants. and the second is

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: following the ideas of a several outers of sociology, of emotions and general sociology.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: My analysis is based on the idea that the narratives of the endurance are related to interactional contexts configured by the orders of powers and the status push by the most of incorporation of each context.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: The motion give us insights about the social position and the relation between immigrants and the Host Society.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Now I will present the motions that I'm working on in the following order.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: fear in relation to Mexico City. Sadness and anger as a dynamic in relation to Madrid. enjoy in relation to both places.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Sorry I I will begin with with one example of the experience of fear.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Shamara visa. 28 years old woman who has been living in Mexico City for 13 years. She arrived to Mexico as a teenager. She was a big team of violin from the her partner.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: On her way to Mexico, CD. She crossed down those landscapes to avoid the migratory agents. She never got a resident document. She tried to get the document based on the birth of her child, who is a Mexican national.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: She knew about this option from the advice of a lawyer who warned her about the possibility of getting a fine imposed by the Government. She advises her to request for the find not to be imposed to her socioeconomical situation.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: When she went to the governmental office, the public servant question her without basis in the procedure. Why, she has spent all this time without a resident permit.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: She felt a lot of fear. accepted the fine, and went out of the place as quickly as she could. She paid the fine with the support of her neighbors.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: When she went back to the governmental office she was attended by another public servant, who was kind, and followed the procedure. The procedure correctly.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: The fear in the narratives of the endurance in Mexico City is related to the follow following situation

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: in the episodes where the people leaves precariousness and violence in their way to Mexico City. In this situation the people recognize big rks of the integrity and identify the authorities and organized crime actors as €10.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: In the

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: they leave corruption and pregnancy of the migratory authorities, mostly in their procedures to get a resident document.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: The people recognize an arbitrary action of the civil servants and feel fear.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: This emotion is bigger on a specific specific general context in which they ambition, a hardering of the governmental action to control, and the port on the commented immigrants.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: and the 2 one, the last kind of situation, the fear is related to the risk of being the porter, or failing in their afford to make a life in Mexico City, and then, having to go back to endurance.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: the fear appears in interaction with social actors, with high capacity of coercion. Where immigrants have a lack of power and resources.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: the arbitrary action of the public servant are allowed by 3 conditions. a regulation which excludes people with a lack of economic resources. The theurtical language in which the public information about the procedure is published.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez:  the the dual and in effectiveness of the control mechanism of the military authorities of this element give the authorities plenty of margin to act according to their personal criteria, and often in an arbitrary way in the limits of the law.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: The lack of power of the immigrants comes from the status as not as non-national, and the institutional configuration related to it

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: it will seems that the national condition and the lack of residential document works as a stigma. There are attributes which are our first in government. The law cannot change.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: and which

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: so they they are socially degrading by it, and wrestled in a position of disadvantage. This create a significant about the aggressive action of the governmental or Cb. Factor to have the capacity of co-

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: based on this immigrants, deploy the following strategies. a. B. In the situation, avoiding it, or escaping, escaping from it. looking for legal and social support to face the process.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: And in the words of one of the interview, women learning to live with fear. The ferry bills, an important shade of the Mexico City context, the role of the violence and the arrival. I think the fears are central in Mexico City experience, because the violence is a kind of a structural element of the military system. In this place.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Indeed it will. It looks like once the people experience the violence of the system. the fear becomes a constant part of their lives.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Now I advanced to the dynamic of sadness and anger in Madrid.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: They are in both context and clarifying the main characteristic of settlement experience of endurance in Madrid, which is reflected in the centrality of this emotion in their narrative

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: to it. To illustrate. I will use the example of Maria.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: a 31 year old, single mother of 2 kids, who has been living in Madrid for the past 4 years. Here she has lived in a permanent job, in stability and without the document of residence.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Since she arrived at Spain she has worked as caregiver of seniors and kids.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: She has endured a lot of economic instability because the precariousness of their income and the lack of saving and social support.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: If you're experienced one situation stand out. In one occasion she runs a place to live in Madrid. The man who rented it to her was doing so illegally.

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He didn't have any rights over the department, but he had the keys.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Maria wasn't aware of the situation

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: when the real owner noticed he called the police and prevent Maria to enter the fact. She was renter

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: when the police are right. The first thing that they ask was about their document of residents. Maria got angry, and I do with them. After that the officer listened to Maria history.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: They explained to her that she was victim of throat and inform her of her rights to press charge, which she called in a stay in the apartment.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: She didn't press charge because she didn't find any benefit in it.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: When Maria spoke up about her overall experience, she told me she was sad

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: in the narrative of endurance in Madrid the anger arose from the following situations when they perceive rejection of their way of life. For example, when they felt the non-intentional pressure of voters to change their accent or words to add just to to the Spanish language or work when the families don't find suitable places to live, because the owners

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: do not rent to families with children. daily interaction in which, without any justification, this is the second situation Their condition of being immigrants becomes a center erasing other characteristics and results in nonetheless scenarios for them.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Finally.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: it appears in situation in which the excessive bureaucracy of the governmental process related to migratory issues and associate support, makes them feel that the administrative process is more important than their needs.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: On the other hand. Sadness appears in 3 kinds of situation.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: in governmental procedures, where the people think they are following the rules established, but the results are not as suspected, and they perceive that the process on their valuate them.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Another kind of situation are the experience of precariousness, and the consequence of it in their well being and their families. Finally, the sadness appears in interaction in which people people perceive rejection of their way of life. These are the same situation that mentioned I mentioned previously for the motion of anger.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: It is important to point out that the most of them do rounds interview go through to kind of right of passage. If a coupon entering Madrid. one, the lack of documents and 2, the labor in session are as caregivers, builders, or employees in hospitality. Most of the times they are over qualified for these jobs.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: It's payment. Madrid

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: have a widely millions integration system in compression with Mexico City, and generally good perception of immigrants. Idly

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: we expect an easy set of in process.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: However, the experience of the interviews contradict this expectation, and showed that the high bureaucracy in the access to rights is impractical in their life, and doesn't provide them with with many benefits. In the short term.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Indeed, sadness and anger.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: as the endurance told me, are related to the sensation of a large gap between the formal intention and discourses of both immigration in Spain and the reality

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Younduras deploy a combination of your strategies.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Are you formal procedures to complain or change the authorities? Decision, or in their words endure, or the situation or humiliate, humiliate themselves.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: I think the core of the sadness, anger, dynamic is based on a long experience of social degradation and humiliation created by the action of the governmental and the social actors.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: This produce a feeling of induced it, which fits the anger and desire to fight. At the same time there is an experience of humiliation and use of power which leads to a form of resignation to disorder of things. The bill by the settings. Again the immigration condition work as a stigma and as

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: as a government show

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: the people the stigmatized. I quote masiliate between covering and bravado.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: I close the call.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: maybe under. I'm fairly mad into interview shows how the mode of incorporation in this place shapes what chefs call a spirals of bypass, shame and anger at the end. The existence of a peak system and culture of integration doesn't guarantee the recognizing and dignifying of immigrants, because the real operation of it implies some kind of practice of humiliation and stigmatization.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Finally. I will talk about the joy.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: I will mention it in both context, because the experience of George shows a lot of similarities in Madrid and Mexico like

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: in Mexico. The joy of the interviews appears in the next situation, fears in the situation in which they think they have a good experience in a context in which the bad experience are the normal.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Second, when they went through a situation in which they perceived their aspiration. A rich it, or on a good way to be rich

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: there when they experienced non-conflictive interaction in which they felt. Consider

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: in Madrid

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: this and that this is similar. The joy of the interviews appear in the next situation. When the immigrants overcome the institutional procedures to access for a residence document or public services, and this has a positive impact on their basic needs.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: 2, when they receive solidarity action from a Spanish people, which is an unexpected experience for them

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: when they believe, until when they believe that they are having a good way of light, despite the completion, experience, because of their access to hell, education and secure environment which is better than the

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: than what they can get in on us.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: This elements show us a context of interaction characters. I, by, as some interview says.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: the empathy of the orders, it is relevant, relevant, that the situation that I mentioned happen in into into the additional context in which the empathy is a no object of institutional right vindication. Sorry as the Ngos.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: or happens on informant context, in which common people identify.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Yeah with the immigrants.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: I believe this is because the this empathy counter acts the negative tendency to the humiliation and violence.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: This makes sense, if we understand the empathy as a moral emotion which is based on I quote, is that Sam Turner

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: the capacity to understand the effective state of the other, or actually feel the motion that the other fields.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: It will be time to conclude if you can take one more minute on it.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Yeah, okay, I I I'm finish it.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: So taking a nurse specific, and in so doing recognizing and discrimination, and what the other effective estates. This capacity conducts, support and recognize the others.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: and only to to to mention after the joy, the option of indurance are related to

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: emotion as gratitude, pride, and commitment, and they say things like, I want to contribute to the country. I want to stay here, or I want to continue the relationship with him or her.

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Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Only one final remark.

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the sociological analysis of the motion could help us

423
01:17:36.480 --> 01:17:56.370
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: the they PE deep in on the our understanding of the social stratification and violence which are becoming endemic to some international migration process. This way we could understand deeply the effect of the ways in which the migrants are exposed to some forms of exclusion based on the form in which the institutional procedure

424
01:17:56.590 --> 01:17:59.899
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: are shape. Thank you very much.

425
01:18:04.580 --> 01:18:13.490
Thank you very much. If you could end your yeah great. So that's a time for questions.

426
01:18:13.740 --> 01:18:24.830
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: So comes on questions. We can. Maybe if you can ask if somebody wants to make it any question to the 4 presenters.

427
01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:33.080
yeah. And maybe we could start with the 3 last panelists, because there were many questions to the first.

428
01:18:34.290 --> 01:18:39.190
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Any any question there

429
01:18:40.400 --> 01:18:48.570
I was to break the eyes.

430
01:18:48.580 --> 01:18:59.200
You can also raise a question for all the panelists at the same time.

431
01:18:59.280 --> 01:19:24.019
Specific question because she she they don't have the the opportunity to get questions. So yeah, okay, my question is for really who you, you, you! In your presentation, you, you, you! You! You mentioned the the new feminity of young female female female in China. So I was wondering if you define

432
01:19:24.140 --> 01:19:30.159
this new community exclusively in reference to

433
01:19:31.010 --> 01:19:39.280
to post what you call post-humanism in relation to Leo Liberalism? Or is there something else in it.

434
01:19:39.610 --> 01:19:48.599
Do you understand what that? Yeah, yeah, I think the new feminity in China is related to the neoliberalism.

435
01:19:49.090 --> 01:20:00.470
Yeah, neoliberalism. Yes. So that that was clear. But what you, the the this new you you use, the expression, the new feminine. femininity!

436
01:20:00.590 --> 01:20:30.300
So is it. Is it? Is it related to to post feminism that this new femininity you mentioned. Yeah, I think thus, and thank you for your question. Yeah. And there are tension. Actually, I think. the new feminine in in China is belong to the post of feminists, the culture because it also root in consumption, and because, you know, the influencer

437
01:20:30.300 --> 01:20:55.299
life otherwise influenced their online, they still went to their audience to purchase some product that they promoted online. because actually, some some people rely on it as a full time job. So it has rooted in the marketing logic. So I think it. connect with both

438
01:20:55.300 --> 01:21:00.540
all liberal culture and the postal feminist studies. Yeah.

439
01:21:00.650 --> 01:21:13.649
that's a very interesting phenomenon, because you know, your Chinese counter is very special, because it not only

440
01:21:13.650 --> 01:21:32.850
it. It's regime, it's not only about capitalism, but also related to Social Socialism. But you know, I think the online culture, the in the Internet culture, especially the celebrities.

441
01:21:32.850 --> 01:21:47.140
I think they more and more tend to get economic benefits online. And they closely linked with neoliberal culture nowadays. Yeah.

442
01:21:47.250 --> 01:21:49.660
the very interesting issues.

443
01:21:50.890 --> 01:21:51.630
he

444
01:21:55.580 --> 01:22:02.870
thank you. Are there other questions here in the room? No.

445
01:22:03.130 --> 01:22:25.630
maybe online. you want to add to add one, yeah, can go on. I have a question for this year. I was now in now with the vacation online. After that, go, go on, go on. Yeah, okay, I have a question for, but I I was, I was. I had difficulty under understanding what you were

446
01:22:25.630 --> 01:22:37.330
Mentioning, but you refer to I'm not. I'm not sure if you said that you refer, and you you you will tell me subjective desire. Did you mention that.

447
01:22:38.840 --> 01:22:47.489
or I was? misunderstanding, I did you refer to to a subjective desire in your presentation.

448
01:22:49.640 --> 01:23:09.160
PRISCILA CEDILLO: Hey, Priscilla, you are muted, you you should open. No, I I I will tell you why I'm I'm I'm I'm raising this question. Yes, sense of socialize, livid, though, that it takes from his lectures for psychoanalysis.

449
01:23:09.390 --> 01:23:11.409
So you, you refer to that.

450
01:23:13.030 --> 01:23:26.730
Yes, yes, okay. It's because when I I I'm not aware of the elderly temperature on emotions, but I am aware of a bit of this literature around around social movements.

451
01:23:26.740 --> 01:23:33.289
and I can tell you that I was always deceived by this literature on emotions.

452
01:23:33.420 --> 01:23:45.799
because they they they for for me. Contemporary literature is is much more interesting than sociology to talk about emotions in general.

453
01:23:45.800 --> 01:24:06.479
So when you raised this issue of desire, I was asking to myself, How do you connect it with constraint, with Norm, with with with Norman constraint. Yes, that that these these are 2 important dimensions that are framing behaviors.

454
01:24:06.480 --> 01:24:21.509
and influencing the capacity of actors to define their own aspiration regarding subjective desire.

455
01:24:23.020 --> 01:24:34.079
PRISCILA CEDILLO: Well, because more of the constraints that we live as human beings are in the cult of emotions. We admire

456
01:24:34.130 --> 01:24:41.750
PRISCILA CEDILLO: people, we respect people, and that's is recognized kind of authority

457
01:24:41.830 --> 01:24:48.170
PRISCILA CEDILLO: for these people we respect, and we

458
01:24:50.050 --> 01:24:55.250
PRISCILA CEDILLO: in the Spanish, I can be clear more clear than that

459
01:24:56.810 --> 01:24:57.910
PRISCILA CEDILLO: sorry?

460
01:24:58.090 --> 01:24:59.380
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: No, it's again.

461
01:24:59.550 --> 01:25:15.849
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I don't know if he, if it's the answer to you the question, maybe the who who ask can go in front of the screen, because we just see the that curtain, that orange content, and we don't see the faces. Maybe

462
01:25:15.970 --> 01:25:19.449
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: we do that now. Sorry.

463
01:25:19.780 --> 01:25:26.059
Maybe you can thank you. Thank you very much for all the presentations

464
01:25:26.110 --> 01:25:33.729
Marina Ariza: and different angles, but very interesting, all of them, and I will, As a question to Alejandro

465
01:25:33.780 --> 01:25:41.189
Marina Ariza: the. And it's very interesting the the comparison between the 2 context of reception that you are doing

466
01:25:41.300 --> 01:25:45.270
Marina Ariza: and It made me think that

467
01:25:45.560 --> 01:25:52.480
Marina Ariza: because, as you know, as you know, Honduras immigrants in Spain and recent.

468
01:25:52.670 --> 01:25:55.219
Marina Ariza: and, let's say, group

469
01:25:55.690 --> 01:26:01.509
Marina Ariza: in contrast to Mexico, where they have been the immigrants for a long time.

470
01:26:02.350 --> 01:26:07.169
Marina Ariza: The Mexico is a very violent context of reception.

471
01:26:07.540 --> 01:26:28.669
Marina Ariza: And I wonder and and you have 2 different, very different demographic groups, or or quite different demographic groups, because holiday has come to Mexico from a country which is not in the border, but very close to the border now, and those that go to too much. We

472
01:26:28.670 --> 01:26:55.460
Marina Ariza: how do we have to pay for a flight? So they are selective, in a way, and they are very qualified, and they are a. Some of them, as I know from your work, are are very politically motivated because they they went out of on to on the Us. After the last co-OP that

473
01:26:55.700 --> 01:27:05.200
Marina Ariza: So, since we we may think that since we may agree with the

474
01:27:05.290 --> 01:27:15.760
Marina Ariza: fact that emotions arise many times out of the confirmation or not confirmation of unexpected and expectation.

475
01:27:15.890 --> 01:27:23.910
Marina Ariza: Would you think that would be the case, that your immigrants in Spain, although it is a more

476
01:27:24.090 --> 01:27:49.079
Marina Ariza: a friendly environment, you know, for immigrants. Now you know that that a work that I handle Porthos did there try to replicate his famous work with Rambo about in the, you know, the integration of the second generation of immigrants in the United States. He tried to do the same in in Madrid, and he found that it was a very friendly environment.

477
01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:56.900
Marina Ariza: Could it be that? A. Since it is more friendly? But they have hired spectators.

478
01:27:57.150 --> 01:28:09.220
Marina Ariza: and they come from, and they are very qualified that in this subjective feeling is more downgrading than those in in in in Mexico, because but the the ones that come to Mexico

479
01:28:09.320 --> 01:28:12.709
Marina Ariza: so more, and they

480
01:28:12.900 --> 01:28:26.640
Marina Ariza: sort of imagine what they are going to be facing. They already know they are good. Maybe they maybe will be raped. They already know they will have to pay, but the expectation of of on the we have immigrants in Spain are higher.

481
01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:28.440
Marina Ariza: So it might be that there.

482
01:28:28.480 --> 01:28:33.979
Marina Ariza: you know, internal or subjective, I mean the relational emotion might be

483
01:28:33.990 --> 01:28:38.479
Marina Ariza: paradoxically worse that that in Mexico which has

484
01:28:38.540 --> 01:28:41.300
Marina Ariza: a worse environment, could it be the case?

485
01:28:43.780 --> 01:28:46.840
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Thank you. Thank you, Marina, for the question.

486
01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:56.240
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: it's it's a reflection. I know you're right. Yes, but but I'm surprised with with the now. This is because

487
01:28:57.500 --> 01:28:59.980
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: yes, they? They have

488
01:29:00.840 --> 01:29:10.860
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: bigger expectation to the things that they can reach in in Madrid. But indeed, that that so this pricing fact was

489
01:29:11.170 --> 01:29:13.000
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: that all of them

490
01:29:13.230 --> 01:29:33.290
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: passed by this process of prep tirelessness in the first moments of their experience. For example, I interview a a a woman who was journalists in in Andnduras, and she appear in the TV on Monduras, and she has to go to caregiving.

491
01:29:33.370 --> 01:29:51.380
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: I'm grading in the beginning. I'm great. Yeah in the beginning and and take a lot of time to to to. And they they they don't get in in the in the last position, in the last kind of of of jobs they

492
01:29:51.410 --> 01:29:54.010
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: They like. they. They

493
01:29:54.330 --> 01:30:04.779
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: find some way to have a different job, like a system in a lawyer office especially in

494
01:30:04.850 --> 01:30:26.700
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: immigration, because they I've a knowledge about the immigration process. But they don't go back to their the the the jobs that they just to to do in unduras. Then all of them are leaving this process of of degradation and humiliation, and the other thing that was surprised that they feel that

495
01:30:27.330 --> 01:30:55.909
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: even in the language they have to chain. And they yeah, that's very common. That's very common. Yes, they can, because of the how they speak Spanish, yeah, but but but maybe theoretically, you don't expect that they top. It happens in in an immigration, in a context, in with with the both groups speak the same language, then, that that that kind of a little situation which make them feel

496
01:30:55.910 --> 01:31:17.399
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: degradate, and of course the the their expectation, make a place a role in the process. But I think it's like a it. It gets bigger with this, this, see social system of of the graduation of their

497
01:31:17.920 --> 01:31:21.480
Marina Ariza: higher than the Honduras in Mexico.

498
01:31:21.560 --> 01:31:32.530
Marina Ariza: which are of a lower strata, which one to go to the United States, which no, they are going to suffer many violations to their rights, so they are

499
01:31:33.530 --> 01:31:36.050
Marina Ariza: psychologically, maybe prepare.

500
01:31:36.200 --> 01:31:39.329
Marina Ariza: Sorry. I extend it too much.

501
01:31:39.550 --> 01:31:42.140
Marina Ariza: Thank you very much.

502
01:31:42.540 --> 01:31:46.899
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: What I I have some questions to do for each of

503
01:31:47.090 --> 01:32:08.009
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: view. First of all, maybe we can continue with Alec Andrew to continue, and then to pass again to Priscilla. I was a kid. I I I was wondering, why did you choose the on durian, Population, and not another group of of migrants. And then

504
01:32:08.270 --> 01:32:10.800
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: it was interesting, this

505
01:32:11.130 --> 01:32:29.590
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: when I I I like it. Look how you, how, how did you show the different emotion that appear in each context? And a you show that in some, in some cases anger arouses, and in another sadness around this.

506
01:32:29.660 --> 01:32:41.870
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: especially when they feel rejection of their kind of lifestyle or the I, I'm okay. I think I understood. Okay, and

507
01:32:42.490 --> 01:32:44.640
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: the anger is the

508
01:32:44.970 --> 01:32:58.559
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: the fuel that a tend them to have the desire to fight, or they say that, and in in which I I I like you to specify

509
01:32:58.600 --> 01:33:03.690
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: in which context appear anger, and in which context appears sadness.

510
01:33:04.040 --> 01:33:12.610
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Both who feel that in that way, and why the difference of that emotion?

511
01:33:13.340 --> 01:33:15.890
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: And then I

512
01:33:16.110 --> 01:33:21.130
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: well, you answer, and then I ask Priscilla and Andrew you

513
01:33:21.870 --> 01:33:29.380
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: okay the decision to to work with the on the on people. It's a political decision.

514
01:33:29.530 --> 01:33:39.690
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Th, the that was the first thing that because I've at the might, this is of master was a both Salvadorian people on Mexico City.

515
01:33:39.750 --> 01:33:42.520
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez:  I

516
01:33:42.560 --> 01:33:44.040
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: discovered that

517
01:33:44.170 --> 01:33:51.599
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: in Mexico and in a lot of places this population of Central America are not the

518
01:33:51.810 --> 01:33:59.619
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: interesting for the researchers. And when I was working on an Ngo I like,

519
01:33:59.700 --> 01:34:11.030
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: see a lot of situation that were very important for the people, and I was trying to and to to document their experience. And then

520
01:34:11.300 --> 01:34:21.269
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: on Duran's was because I begin with the Salvadorian people, and I will. I won. Try to document the situation of Salvadorians on the runs.

521
01:34:21.320 --> 01:34:27.839
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: and Guatemalan people on Mexico and on the Us. In Spain, because the second and the T

522
01:34:27.960 --> 01:34:35.859
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: destination of these people are the after U.S.A. Are Mexico, Spain, and Mexico in that order?

523
01:34:35.970 --> 01:34:38.130
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: Then

524
01:34:38.590 --> 01:34:45.819
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: about your question, the second question about the sadness and the combination.

525
01:34:46.310 --> 01:34:49.119
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: At the beginning. I I I analyze

526
01:34:49.260 --> 01:34:56.629
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: these both emotions separate, and then I found that they were related and was very interesting.

527
01:34:56.830 --> 01:35:00.340
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez:  And then

528
01:35:01.300 --> 01:35:05.039
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: this sadness appears in very

529
01:35:05.320 --> 01:35:14.450
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: close or very likely situation that they under. But the difference is that

530
01:35:14.550 --> 01:35:18.540
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: the action that the people makes in that cases.

531
01:35:19.100 --> 01:35:25.729
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: and I think I'm not sure, because I'm not in that point point of the amount. It is my, this is like a

532
01:35:25.760 --> 01:35:40.530
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: it's because of the repetition of the demeaning situations that they like resigned to it. This is part of this experience, and then I have to like. It's like I in the most emotional management management

533
01:35:40.970 --> 01:35:45.389
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: about

534
01:35:45.890 --> 01:35:48.140
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: to to to keep their energy

535
01:35:48.440 --> 01:36:10.440
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: to the situation. That is more effective to fight. And then you you get sad in the other situation in order to, because because because the context is it you, you can change the the contacts. And I think that that dynamic is because of that. And the suddenness appears in the same kind of situation.

536
01:36:10.550 --> 01:36:18.410
Alejandro de la Peña Rodríguez: I need to. Yeah, there are different. So on on the kind of people. But well, I don't want to to extend my

537
01:36:18.660 --> 01:36:21.070
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: okay, thank you.

538
01:36:21.250 --> 01:36:48.730
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I I found it very interesting and very complex to to to follow in English and online, with the Internet connection, and unstable and all that kind of thing. But I I I miss 1 point, and I think that the you'll recover. And this this position of perspective you you pick a Bordeaux layer and back on.

539
01:36:49.030 --> 01:36:52.070
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: and you mentioned Monticelli also.

540
01:36:52.290 --> 01:37:05.659
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: They they are, I think, that we can all in my imaginary, my map. 30 to God map I put, and those feel off so. Theology of individuals.

541
01:37:05.960 --> 01:37:24.540
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: And why don't you choose? Oh, why do this card to to analyze or focus on Monticelli's or another kinds of sociology of individuals. And you pick. And you you did pick, and one a lies layer and back on.

542
01:37:24.640 --> 01:37:26.570
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I don't know if you understand me.

543
01:37:30.710 --> 01:37:34.870
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: which is the the theoretical foundation of this decision.

544
01:37:37.390 --> 01:37:39.490
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Yeah, you are a muted

545
01:37:40.070 --> 01:37:50.899
PRISCILA CEDILLO: yes, because I believe that it's a continuity on the work. Some

546
01:37:51.060 --> 01:37:55.970
PRISCILA CEDILLO: he, even he. They doesn't collaborate each other.

547
01:37:56.680 --> 01:37:58.330
PRISCILA CEDILLO: But

548
01:37:58.440 --> 01:38:01.579
PRISCILA CEDILLO: they work on the

549
01:38:01.850 --> 01:38:08.290
PRISCILA CEDILLO: 2 K concepts socialization. And these positions, and I think

550
01:38:08.630 --> 01:38:12.120
PRISCILA CEDILLO: it's a very critic

551
01:38:12.290 --> 01:38:16.080
PRISCILA CEDILLO: follower of.

552
01:38:16.180 --> 01:38:23.070
PRISCILA CEDILLO: and I think that the dispositional perspective of Bordeaux

553
01:38:23.290 --> 01:38:30.650
PRISCILA CEDILLO: would be a rich by layers, and these criticisms by the

554
01:38:31.040 --> 01:38:34.870
PRISCILA CEDILLO:  play of them.

555
01:38:35.390 --> 01:38:36.230
PRISCILA CEDILLO: It

556
01:38:36.970 --> 01:38:42.089
PRISCILA CEDILLO: effective ties, for example, or the reflexivity

557
01:38:42.200 --> 01:38:43.860
PRISCILA CEDILLO: it is.

558
01:38:44.320 --> 01:38:50.850
PRISCILA CEDILLO: can provide some useful resources for gender identities in particular.

559
01:38:52.220 --> 01:38:53.250
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Thank you.

560
01:38:54.290 --> 01:38:55.850
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I don't know. If.

561
01:38:56.000 --> 01:39:01.540
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: do you? You is there around? I would like to ask her some something

562
01:39:03.580 --> 01:39:04.670
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: for you.

563
01:39:05.890 --> 01:39:20.990
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Are we alone here? I am here. Yeah, well, I I like to make a comment. I find it really interesting, the the methodology of the strategy to analyze all that

564
01:39:21.230 --> 01:39:25.170
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: videos and post and well.

565
01:39:25.200 --> 01:39:30.560
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: social media is part of our contemporary life, and not a.

566
01:39:30.590 --> 01:39:39.650
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: There are not so many research focusing on that kind of analysis. And I would like to ask you about this, the

567
01:39:39.660 --> 01:39:51.950
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: if you develop a specific strategy to analyze the videos, the images, is there a kind of analysis or just a contents.

568
01:39:52.700 --> 01:40:06.159
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: Do you understand me when you are of these influencers? It's a a content analysis, or you, you also make an analysis of

569
01:40:06.180 --> 01:40:07.590
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: of images.

570
01:40:07.650 --> 01:40:26.450
Marina Ariza: marine. I don't know. Yeah, I have a question with to her. So maybe we we listen. Then another question, and you answer the the together, both of them. Yes, okay, so thank you very much for your your presentation. It was very interesting. What? I what

571
01:40:27.520 --> 01:40:32.640
Marina Ariza: I want to know the the link. How do you? Because you said that

572
01:40:32.730 --> 01:40:42.340
Marina Ariza: a influences in sort, in sort of way, in in some way influencers which are the new celebrities? No.

573
01:40:42.570 --> 01:40:49.269
Marina Ariza: they were at June with it. Go right now, let's say, with the power.

574
01:40:49.320 --> 01:41:03.489
Marina Ariza: the Chinese part, the state that part. I didn't get it clearly. It is very suggestive how they reinforce the structure of power. But it was not a clear from your data to me.

575
01:41:03.700 --> 01:41:13.329
Marina Ariza: So how do you make? Because if we take this to another context, that link won't be so explicit. It may be context dependent.

576
01:41:13.880 --> 01:41:16.220
Marina Ariza: In the case of China, you see.

577
01:41:16.330 --> 01:41:23.059
Marina Ariza: and how we, that these new celebrities, which are followed by many, many young people are being

578
01:41:23.080 --> 01:41:29.370
Marina Ariza: go control, you know, sort of way through these media by the state.

579
01:41:29.410 --> 01:41:31.060
Marina Ariza: How is that? Link?

580
01:41:31.790 --> 01:41:33.490
Hmm, yeah.

581
01:41:33.560 --> 01:41:45.689
Thank you. Ok, thank you for your questions. Maybe I will start by answer, Marina. No bills.

582
01:41:45.750 --> 01:42:05.659
actually, your culture is about my It's maybe how to analyze the video content. actually, I analyze. my, visual content data is from my mostly it from that.

583
01:42:05.680 --> 01:42:17.530
This caused analysis, because our speech of their influencer is an important part of the video materials.

584
01:42:17.720 --> 01:42:39.490
you know, it's like, not like a film. The drummers that. the you know the person will move everywhere, or Use some different strategies to show their ideas. They just In sitting in front of their the camera and the talk

585
01:42:39.490 --> 01:42:49.330
talk to their audience. That's a very special one. And actually, every video is generally 3 min.

586
01:42:49.330 --> 01:43:06.520
Tell their audience about their opening in a very straightforward way. so merely. I analyze their speech by this course analysis. But I also combine the visual materials, because, you know.

587
01:43:06.520 --> 01:43:36.320
video, it's different from, you know, some test book novels that and the visual information can offer us more about what it influences thinking about. So actually, the visual materials is also available. So there are there, especially their us in face expressions can show their emotion

588
01:43:36.320 --> 01:44:01.210
can show what they want to express. It can help me to figure what they really think about, because sometime, maybe, they are upset from their speech. So I will notice the difference. and also, maybe they are how how, what kind of clothes they they wear. It's also important.

589
01:44:01.210 --> 01:44:29.620
because maybe maybe it. Some maybe just very elegant, like just one just to like celebrate, hey, like film stars. Or maybe they, it can also show they are superiority, or their audience, because it's kind of very decent and maybe their audience can be more pursued pursued by their talk.

590
01:44:29.770 --> 01:44:32.859
so that's that's very

591
01:44:33.059 --> 01:44:55.209
that's the the important one. And actually, I started film film before. So actually, I also use some strategies in the film starting to analyze the visual content. But actually, I think it's not very complex as a like female drummers. Yeah.

592
01:44:55.600 --> 01:44:58.280
And

593
01:44:58.400 --> 01:45:01.149
did did I answer the your questions

594
01:45:05.020 --> 01:45:08.490
as a now.

595
01:45:08.770 --> 01:45:25.959
I will back to Arena Arizona's question. She and she asked me about the the. I think it's more about the influencer

596
01:45:26.040 --> 01:45:33.130
I interviewed, how they impact, how how the influencer impacted the audience. I think

597
01:45:33.410 --> 01:45:45.809
it I don't remember clearly, but I think maybe it's more about that. I think I think I think

598
01:45:45.820 --> 01:46:12.159
my, I think this they do do have certain impact on their audience. but actually, yeah. And in the other way. You know the the, the followers who follow these influencers. May they have the same thoughts with their the influencers? so so they can. They can. They they want to

599
01:46:12.160 --> 01:46:19.460
or watch their videos. But also, I think maybe this kind of

600
01:46:19.510 --> 01:46:22.370
our followers also, you know.

601
01:46:22.540 --> 01:46:23.860
they

602
01:46:23.940 --> 01:46:32.689
they really improved their behavior, not the improve is not a

603
01:46:33.080 --> 01:47:02.569
positive or negative way, but maybe they they just follow their the influencers And upgrade their performance. For example, some beauty vloggers can teach them how to like. offer them makeup tutorials, or some darting vloggers can give their advice on how to eat a a very healthy

604
01:47:02.660 --> 01:47:12.880
a rest pace like that. So I think maybe they give different candle otherwise to their audience.

605
01:47:12.930 --> 01:47:26.579
So I think their audience do. I? I think their audience do really follow there otherwise. And, you know, like upgrade themselves. Yeah, in this way.

606
01:47:26.709 --> 01:47:41.829
So I think this this kind of thing also related to postal feminism, because one feature of the post of families a culture is also about to constantly improve themselves. yeah.

607
01:47:42.250 --> 01:47:44.900
So I created no.

608
01:47:45.810 --> 01:47:48.070
Marina Ariza: that you've created no

609
01:47:48.810 --> 01:47:51.600
oriented.

610
01:47:52.310 --> 01:47:55.170
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: A different oriented, she said.

611
01:47:55.590 --> 01:47:57.460
Different, oriented.

612
01:47:57.660 --> 01:48:01.429
Marina Ariza: oriented.

613
01:48:01.530 --> 01:48:04.709
I I think I think they

614
01:48:04.830 --> 01:48:07.240
they really

615
01:48:07.640 --> 01:48:16.429
to really follow the as of the influencer. And actually it's, you know. constantly

616
01:48:16.480 --> 01:48:36.229
continue progress. it's never and never end, because, you know you're now in your you always can be. more, better, a better of yourself. So it's yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. And and the last program, yeah.

617
01:48:39.130 --> 01:48:40.150
Marina Ariza: thank you.

618
01:48:40.750 --> 01:48:41.849
Hmm, okay.

619
01:48:43.170 --> 01:49:01.129
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: that's in here almost all time. Yeah, thank you very much. We are. We done now because it's a 20. So thank you so much for joining us for this station. Thank you, Mariana, to have been organized. I let you the last words.

620
01:49:01.330 --> 01:49:13.480
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: I I would like to thank you all the presenters and the people who are there and online. It was a very interesting session. All the presenters, the presentation where

621
01:49:13.480 --> 01:49:35.039
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: really interesting and we can keep in touch, we have our emails and anything that we can share our material if you want to share any publication of your work. so we can read you. It's it's a good, a, a a good way to to share that by email in among the the

622
01:49:35.040 --> 01:49:39.829
Mariana Nobile (FLACSO Arg).: the participant. So well, just thank you, and a pleasure for me.