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I was told them should walk in any minute. So maybe we start with the acknowledgement of country and then with some opening works.

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Okay, so, hello, welcome. I'm Michael, one of the organizers and as in every session we start with the acknowledgement of country.

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So on behalf of everyone gathered I pay respect to the spirit of country here in Narm where we are meeting I acknowledge the past and present whoulin nation, Fujiri, Vouum.

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As the sovereign people here, the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote non Aboriginal law, customs and custodianship, responsibilities for country and the people that country continues to sustain generation after generation.

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Into the future for all of us. I recognise the important contribution that First Nations thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all First Nations delegates in the room. Today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline. Yeah, these words.

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I welcome everybody and Yeah, so now we can see you, Leopold and all the others in the room.

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So if you want to take over then.

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All right, so we can I think without much further do we can just start with the first presentation we have as you might have seen in a program 3.

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We've split the session in 3 because we've had a lot of, great and interesting, submissions and, yes, there's going to be, I think, enough.

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Time and room for the presentations. 15 min please keep the time. I'm going to be rude and turn on the microphone 2 or 3 min.

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Yeah, before, your presentation should end. Remind you that there are 2 or 3 min left and yeah then we have enough time and we're looking for to the discussions.

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So.

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Yeah, I suggest we start with the first presentation. Which is in person I think right

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Yes, so we will set up the screen.

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And hide this Yep. So when you stand here then they can see you online as well.

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Let me set up a Alarm for 15 min. Okay Thank you. Everyone for being here. I'm very honored to be part of this panel with this amazing group of scholars and presentations.

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So today I'm presenting to you one of the key findings from my dissertation project, Drop Search as Cultural Adaptation, how organizations make people before hiring them.

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Oh

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Oh Wait. The

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Oh, okay. Sorry. So the starting point of my project is fairly simple yet fundamental question in the study of social inequality.

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That is, why do some people get better jobs than others? To answer this question, scholars in the past have mostly focused on human capital.

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They argue that some people get better jobs because they show signals of higher productivity on the job. Such as more skills and more relevant job experiences.

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More recently, sociologists have found that job market stratification is not just about productivity but also about culture.

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Research shows that job seekers with cultural fit to their potential employers, in other words, who show similarities in the values, experiences and self-presentation styles tend to obtain better job market outcomes.

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Yet what we don't know enough about is how job seekers develop these cultural fit differently, thus getting different jobs.

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So, in my project I ask How do some job seekers develop these cultural fit to an industry and organization more than others.

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Answering this question matters in at least 3 ways. First, it illustrates a new supply side mechanism of labor market stratification.

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Second, it expands the theoretical boundary of professional and organizational socialization. By showing how employers demand for cultural fit translates into pressures to fit into an organization before someone even joins it.

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And third, it illustrates the critical role of agency and creativity by the job seekers in the socialization process rather than job seekers just being on the receiving end of socialization.

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So to answer my question, I have selected the case of computer science and engineering graduate students as a theoretically critical case.

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I have recruited a sample of a total of 69 respondents from 3 different nationalities and 2 different universities.

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This sample provides 3 theoretical advantages.

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Number one, this sample allows me to examine the cultural processes during job search even when job seekers possess high human capital.

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Second, this case provides a unique window into these cultural processes, given that graduate students jobs are typically unfolds over several months.

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And number 3, this case allows me to compare the variation in these cultural processes given their different national cultural backgrounds and different cultural resources at their universities.

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Although I won't get into these comparisons in this presentation due to limited space, I'm happy to discuss it more in the Q&A.

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So departing from most existing research, I have developed a unique data set consisting of 3 waves of longitudinal qualitative interviews before during and after the job search.

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Launchitude no interviews are particularly useful for uncovering personal level cultural changes as they unfold.

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I analyze these data in 3 steps. In step one, I used index coding to first mark all the common themes across respondents.

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And step 2, I used analytical coding to compare within the index themes and produce analytical concepts.

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And step 3, I compare the trajectories of job search process across respondents to obtain the antiquity and the consequences of personal level cultural changes.

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So a two-part argument emerged from my analysis and I would now like to give you a preview.

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I argue that number one, labor market outcomes are in part dependent on a process of cultural adaptation consisting of interdependent cognitive and behavioral adaptations.

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And number 2, who adapted better depends on a process of mobilizing specific cultural resources. And what follows, I will use specific examples to illustrate what these mean.

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So let's now first dive into part one of my argument how cultural adaptations happen and shape job market outcomes.

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So 2 aspects of cultural adaptations emerge from my data. Cognitive and behavioral. Cognitive adaptations refer to the reconstructing of self-arratives to fit into the expectations of the employers.

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And behavioral adaptations refer to the refashioning of self-presentation styles to fit into the interactional norms of the industry.

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Cognitive and behavioral adaptations both involve job seekers first learning the expectations of the employers and then changing themselves to fit into those expectations.

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But these are also distinct aspects because as I will show later, the self narratives and self-presentation styles tend to change through different mechanisms.

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So let's first take a look at the cognitive adaptation aspect. So in the early face of job search, Most respondents began with a belief that technological skills are what get people good jobs.

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But over time, some respondents began to realize that employers are also cultural entities with specific missions and values and employers are not only looking for technologically sound candidates but also culturally fit ones.

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Below is a quote that illustrates this point. So this respondent said. If I am interviewing with a company where their mission is teamwork and innovation, things like that, and if I go and say that I would voice my opinions all the time and I will make sure that I am heard and I go for the leadership kind of way

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in my answers, I'm going to be rejected 100%. So here this respondent showed an understanding of the importance of fitting into the organization values.

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So realizing the importance of cultural fit, job seekers accomplished this fit either by emphasizing some part of their past experiences over others or creating stories that never actually happened.

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Below is an example of the latter creating stories that never actually happened as this respondent was preparing for a upcoming interview.

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So this respondent said, I fabricated that story using one of my internships that while we were working I wanted to build an application in a certain manner which I had a disagreement with a guy who was coordinating with us from the company.

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Then we discussed that. I put forth my point that why we should implement it this way and why it would be better.

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And we had a bank and forth and then we rested consensus. So I fabricated that because that never happened.

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So here, this respondent created the story to fit into the expectation of a future employee capable of reconciling conflicts.

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And with this, with the capability of this cognitive adaptation, this respondent was able to secure a internship offer which later turned into a full-time offer at a large IT service company.

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So, this, These 2 previous examples show that cognitive adaptation involved job seekers revising their self-naratives and values.

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It happened relatively quickly and it required creativity and agency on the part of the job seekers. So now let's turn to the behavioral adaptation aspect.

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So in the early phase of job search, most respondents adopted a style in their job interviews that I called Technological Test Taker.

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Featuring hypermental focus on producing the correct optimal technological answer. And only answering questions without asking any in their job interviews.

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Over time and with practices and experiences. Some job seekers are able to develop a style that I called fit searching interlocutor.

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Where they used the interviews to evaluate fit between themselves and their employers and they seek to engage in a conversation with their interviewers.

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So below is an example of how this change happened. Asked this respondent was observing his roommates online interview up close.

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So there respondents said So they asked him, are the respondents roommate a medium question and he knew the solution.

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So he just gave the optimal solution in 10 min. They know that you know the answer. So straight away he has been asked a hard question next time.

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And so that's when we came to know, OK, you cannot get excited in the interview. And it's better to ask from them like in between questions like is this the right approach even though you know that it is the right approach because if the interviewer feels engaged in your solution so there is a high chance that he will like

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you. So here the respondents showed an understanding that engaging the interviewer in a conversation is much more important than producing the correct technological answer.

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And with this ability and practices, the respondent was also able to secure a job offer at a large company, a large IT service company.

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So this example showed that behavioral adaptations involved changing someone's self-presentation styles.

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It required close observation and continued practice and it also required creativity and agency on the part of the job seekers.

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So, having seen how, cultural adaptations happen and shape job market outcomes, now let's turn to part 2 of my argument which is why some people adapt better.

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My data suggests that a cognitive and behavioral adaptations depend on different kinds of cultural resources. Cognitive adaptations depend on the mobilization of weekly embedded cultural resources such as public culture and weak social ties.

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These resources are particularly useful because they allow wide and quick access to information about US labor market and specific employers.

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Behavioral adaptations by contrast depend on the mobilization of strongly embedded cultural resources such as information from their universities and their strong network ties.

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These resources are particularly useful because they facilitate the kinds of mutual commitment and trust necessary for transmitting complex information, such as how to navigate interviewed situations.

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So below are 2 examples that illustrate each mechanism. Respectively. So here I won't go into the the whole quote but this respondent use weekly embedded resources such as information from online and new contexts to understand the expectation of employer.

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Oh.

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Yeah, and here it is. A second example where the respondent use a strong time which is his cousin in this example to understand the detail to gain a detailed understanding of the interview situation and what to expect.

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In it and how to navigate the interviews.

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You have 1 min left.

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Yeah, so wrap up. So to summarize, my project makes 3 theoretical contributions. Number one, my project illustrates cultural adaptation as a new supply side mechanism of labor market ratification.

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And number 2, to the question of how organizations make people My project shows that this process actually starts even before people become a member of an organization.

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And number 3, my project shows the important role of creativity and agency in the socialization process specifically in a mobilizing specific cultural resources.

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And with that, I hope you find my presentation interesting and helpful and I look forward to the Q&A.

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Thank you.

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Great. Thank you very much. Okay, this is now very interesting.

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Experiments or experience rather experience. And experiment for me because I don't Neither room really.

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So we now have around 10 min. Right?

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I sure agree. Yes, we have 9 min, yeah.

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So we have a question in the room.

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You want to take that?

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Yep.

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Yes, yes, please, yeah, continue.

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Hi, thanks for that presentation. I found it very interesting. I was wondering a little bit about the specifics of the case because looking at Germany I would say that engineering and IT is probably a case in which All you need to do at the moment is not be like negative alpha.

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Appear negatively. Because people are searched and those source topics and probably what you observed would be even way stronger in in other disciplines where the competition for the jobs is higher.

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And so I was wondering what you would, say about the specifics of the disciplines you looked at.

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Yeah, great question. Thank you. So it's about how My findings may travel across different contexts in different discipline.

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So one about this context about how computer science and engineering becomes an interesting theoretical context. I selected it because you know one of our common assumption about this industry is that in order to excel in it people need good technological skills they need to be a good programmer instead of you know these cultural fit things.

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Well, here I show that even in such a technologically sophisticated industry where it definitely requires high on technological skills.

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Cultural fits is still really, really important. Employers care about that and job seekers become also become familiarized and learn about that and shape themselves to fit into those expectations.

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And how it travels to different industries, I think, in

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To to some other industries where technological skills may not be as important. And where what we call soft skills or human skills are even more important such as being a lawyer, being a salesperson, we could imagine, you know, cultural fit becomes even more pronounced in the hiring and the job search process.

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But of course it's an empirical question that's just my hypothesis and future research could definitely look into that.

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I think. Thank you. I hope I answered a question. Yeah.

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Great. Thank you very much. So we have another question by Katya. From Zoom.

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Yes, thank you very much for this really interesting presentation. I have 2 questions. One relates back to your longitudinal design that I like very much.

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And I wondered what do you think of that this longitudinal design actually gives you with regard to your findings.

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What what does it have? With you know on top of a normal retrospective interview what does it have to offer where you know where does it have to offer where you know where does the special finding come in here? What does it have to offer?

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Where does it have to offer? Where, you know, where does the special finding come in here? And the second question I have is about adaptation.

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And in your trajectories.

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Thank you. Great question. So number one about longitudinal design. I think what it gave me, longitudinal design, I think what it gave me are 2 advantages at least.

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First, so in contrast to retrospective one off interview where for example you could imagine 2 advantages at least.

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First, so in contrast to retrospective one off interview where for example you could imagine I recruited people after they get jobs, retrospective one off interview where for example you could imagine I recruited people after they get jobs and I asked them to recrospective retrospective one off interview where for example you could imagine I recruited people after they get jobs and I asked them to recount

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what so having longitudinal data points allows me to gain detailed understanding of their experiences at the moment.

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And you know reduce the memory bias and also allows me to look at the gives me more detailed data. And second and as important is having loansitudinal design allows me to look at the process.

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Of cultural adaptation in the job search. So, for example, and II know due to limits of space, I didn't show it in the presentation.

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But for example, I could look at At what point people began realizing fitting into values and missions are important and starting to change them into values and missions are important and starting to change themselves at what point they began to change themselves.

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At what point they began to change their self-presentions are important and starting to change themselves. At what point they began to change their self presentation styles.

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And how the time point shape their job search experience because one of the you know early emerging findings that I haven't showed is, starting early making that first step to cultural adaptation is important because that gives you a early exposure and you know open you up to opportunities on the market.

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So that's question one and question 2 is about are there negative cases and again that's an excellent question 2 is about are there negative cases and again that's an excellent question 2 is about are there negative cases and again that's an excellent question and obviously if I don't have that, if everyone adapts and get good jobs

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and it'll be a not not so much interesting a finding so I do have negative cases where people don't really adapt to which then in turn restrain their job market opportunities.

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One example that immediately jumped my head is person which all through through 3 different waves you know tell me technological skills are important.

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I'm just focusing on you know preparing technologically. But, you know. Even half a year after this person graduate he still doesn't have a you know full-time job offer.

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So there are some cases like that which which shows me that cultural adaptation perhaps is an important aspect of the job search.

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So I hope you, I hope I understand, answer your question.

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Yes, you did. Thank you very much.

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So we have 2 more questions in the room.

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Yeah, unfortunately we are out of time. We have to move on. So maybe you could ask the questions are in the room if I'm correct.

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Yep.

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So maybe you could talk about that. After the section is over so because otherwise we're gonna lose our The buffer, a little bit of buffer we had in between built in.

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So thank you very much for your presentation with me. That was interesting and we are going to On, now with a Zoom.

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Hybrid presentation. If you don't hear the voice where you can see the slides in the room please just tell us but otherwise at least you may We'll see.

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Just going to share my screen.

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We can see that.

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Hello everyone. I'm going to present a paper today which is part of my ongoing PhD research and it's very much a work in progress so I'm looking forward to your comments.

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In, 2,013, you know, invited several, stateless states, autonomous groups and blacklisted political organizations for the New World Summit.

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The free day event provided a discussion space for political organizations which have been ignored in the political real to debate questions on democracy according to his websites.

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This event series explores radical democracy with political organizations themselves. The dense choreographer those who initiated the dance project habitat, which involved 120 performers, professionals and laypeople of different H's body types.

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A six-week rehearsal and 4 public performances displaying their bodies and for public performances displaying their bodies and movements.

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This is just a few examples displaying and their bodies and movements. This is just a few examples of how participatory art projects involve actors in movements.

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This is just a few examples of how participatory art projects involve actors in a shared project and movements. This is just a few examples of how participatory art projects involve actors in a shared project and intervene in society for leaning on participation Recently we can see an increasing engagement with participative practices aiming at involving formally excluded actors themselves

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into the representations. Many fields from economy, politics, urban planning and social work among others, explore different participative strategies such as co-creation, citizen or community involvement, active citizenship, etc.

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And we can't find similar trends in the art world for instance when we look at the participatory turn in cultural funding in many Western countries for example the EU.

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2,020 horizon criteria for funding. Still, if you think about, the use of this notion, we are immediately confronted with, the broadness of this approach and, and the communications call any good, describes participation as the involvement of formerly excluded actors in collective practices, which includes practices

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of co-desiding on with technologies, content, people and organizational policy. For participation as a mode of organizing, we can think of these as alternative and temporary organizations.

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Which are characterized by interconnected decision making but also shared actorhoods and boundaries of identities.

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What seems relevant for participation in organizing for social change is that there is some ideal of immersion in the shared process which exceeds more functional role such as customers or users.

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And participation is associated with a general hope and social change through learning, empowering and developing new practical knowledge because they involve actors who have been excluded from some kind of practice before.

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However, there's quite some critique of participatory attempts to participation has been criticized for being a burden when responsibilities are shifted to participants for undermining professional autonomy, for example in the art field and for the risk of using participants as material without making a change for them.

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Although all of this perspectives, without doubt, important, these arguments for and against participative practices tend to either understand the involvement of new actors as per say innovative or focus on essentialist effects of this collaboration.

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Yes, they show little awareness for ongoing internal processes for the involved actors and for ambivalences and modulating practices throughout this work process.

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And this is the starting point for this paper. So I'm acknowledging the excitement and what could happen through participation or formally excluded actors, but also sharing the doubts of this critical voices.

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So I'm interested in how actors collectively set the scene for their shared practices and how they format their collaboration in doing so.

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And to answer this question, I look at participatory projects in dance, theatre and visual arts in North and Western and Eastern Europe.

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And one of the reasons I do that is that this project is not only built on participation, but they also need to display this form of collaboration in order to to succeed in the art world.

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And from my, database that I built of 140 projects, I took a closer look, at a 13 open narratively informed interviews with artists and participants who took part in such participatory art projects.

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I analyzed this interviews throwing on documentary methods developed by Bundesak and Prbowski and with a practice theoretical ends.

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So let me unfold what is going on in this project with a few examples of modulation in this organization.

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The first modern dating practice, I will name 3 and the first one is, curating.

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As an other temporal organizations, participatory art projects also start with a selection of participants. Some projects work closely with institutions, often art institutions who share their previously existing connections with certain local communities or distribute open calls via the networks.

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Other artists search in archives for participants or go knocking on doors. Sometimes artists are also contacted by future participants themselves.

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And these examples for currenting points to the active formation of a specific constellation of differences and shows how already the formation of this temporal projects interlinks with several external players and settings.

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The second example, that I'm going to show is, the model letting practice of developing shared forms of expression.

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And with this example, I want to show how actors decide on a shared form of expression and construct roles within the project.

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Also by leaning on imaginary external actors. The following example that I will show you is from a participatory dance performance, which states non-normative bodies.

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Part of this rehearsal process before they had the performance in the end was training of participants by the artists and 3 other professional coaches.

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And in this rehearsal spaces, participants proposed dense moves according to open tasks. Such as move to this music, find a way of approaching another participant, etc.

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And although in the end of the rehearsal, the artists, was one building at choreography, the specific movements, were developed within the shared process according to participants skills, abilities, body forms, levels of fitness, etc.

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So this is an excerpt from my field notes of a pilot and participation I did. I am my colleague proposed some moves.

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The trainer said we shouldn't do it. I felt a little bit offended by the clearness used to dismiss that proposal.

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He said we should not copy classical dance moves such as those lifts. I was surprised and embarrassed.

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I was not aware this was a canonical move. My colleague immediately continued to propose new things. I agreed.

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Our trainer showed us other ways of movements that were surprising and new to me. Didn't thought about this move combinations.

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They also included lifting each other. I felt I didn't really understand the difference. So one could critically argue that the artists at this moment take on the role of teaching participants how to participate as Jeannal Charles critically frames it in the context of participation in medical center.

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However, we see that in this case both participants and artists use a similar frame of reference of artistic work to come to a decision.

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This shared frame of reference as open artistic work enables them to evaluate the proposed movements as invalid practices at that moment.

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But arguing that participants shall avoid moves which resemble traditional bands. The otherness of this raw action of non-members and the openness of the projects to with them are performatively displayed.

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But it is also the artists who know how to display non-artist participation in a way it can become potentially readable in the art field.

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But the participants don't necessarily share the understanding of the trainer, they share the frame of reference as this open artistic work.

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In this setting, they frame the critique as professional expertise and their proposition of movements as learning of new forms or dance practice per se.

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A second thing I want to emphasize with this example is that artists refer to an imaginary outside actor, an arbitrary audience to justify that decision.

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In this case, the professional knowledge of tense doesn't lead to a monodirectional delegation of specific movements.

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It's still the participants who shall express themselves and propose authentic movements for this audience. But, the art, several artists in other projects justify the intervention, in how partition can and cannot act in the project by stating that it's their responsibility to protect the participants from over sharing in regards to such a

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future audience. In doing so, the artists refer to the exterior social positionities of participants and translate them to the artistic field to build the roles in the collaboration process.

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And given the ongoing debate of giving voice the risk of appropriating and exhibiting potentially vulnerable actors, this seems a legitimate concern.

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But yet through, the shared space defined as artistic work. This project or this practice also entails providing a space for alternatives and can be used as in other examples as a basic for saying no to the artist artists propositions too.

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The first, practice of modulating that I want to talk about is, dealing with dormant problems.

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It's not modulation as a way of formatting is not only about exterior social positionalities of participants and their vulnerable positions in the project but also forms possible resistance.

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I talked to an artist who conducts projects in schools, invited by the principals of these schools.

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They establish alternative modes of central learning, conduct aesthetical exercises and organized performances with teachers and students.

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Part of this is the installment of a stage design in the school. And this in this case, it does not, it is not the art production which which then creates the new group, but the artist enters a previously existing organization for a limited period of time.

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And when asked about challenging situations they face, the artist describes 2 incidents of resistance by internal actors and external political fractions.

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It's a bit long, but very interesting. There was a student group, who didn't really want to.

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There was a student group who didn't really want to participant beforehand. So, who didn't really want to participant beforehand.

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So even though they didn't really know the participant beforehand. So even though they didn't really know us or anything, they were so reluctant to do it.

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And it became like a project in itself for them to resist and be against it. And then, you know, when we arrived, they struggled a bit because some of them felt attracted anyway.

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But you know, Then there was the solidarity to these students. So this trouble was visible. But then there was also one day the leader of the school comes to me and says, okay, we have a problem because we have a group of parents who want this to close down.

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So they have been there and walked around and we have a lot of fabric like heavy fabrics. And they were like, hmm, this is not okay in terms of fire regulations.

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And they said, so the fire department will come and if they find one small thing that's not okay, they will close it down.

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But luckily everything was okay. Then it turned out that this city is really divided between the very strong left wing feminist community.

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But then there's also a very strong right wing, all the community. And these are really like in the app.

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This kind of fractions are there. And it turned out that this parent group was from this very strong right wing community.

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And so it came forth this kind of what was both a community problem and the problem that stepped into the school from the students coming from different fractions and then this project brought it out.

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It was not never talked about. It was, but it was there. Like I said, it can fourth and it has had to be dealt with.

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2 min.

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Yes, in this example, both students and parents critically intervene in the project. They are treated differently though.

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The students actions become integrated in a project and addressed with aesthetic means and on a personal level.

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The project is defined as a affecting force with the ability to do student participants when confronted with the project.

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The parent similar practices on the other hand are delegitimized and they are linked to the, actors exterior problems defined as pre-existing to the art project and that therefore not part of it.

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Yes, this external forces, is, also stabilizing the boundaries of the project and the project was able to bring it out.

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It is this, in this example that the artists also codified their own role and tasks within a project while they solve the problem with the students.

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They outsourced the problem with that with the parents defined as an exterior problem, to an actor at the margins which is here, the principal.

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In regard to formatting practices, this example shows 2 things. First, how external factors become a very concrete part of the project itself.

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And participants can withdraw but might be seduced to taking part and external actors can intervene with their exterior practices such as calling the fire department.

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And second, artists justify the different reactions in dealing with critique. By evaluating some actors as participants and therefore engage with and others as not part of the project.

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In both challenges we see that the project deals with elements which previously existed in social space of artists life boards.

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To sum up, starting from my empirical case, I looked at how actors format the collaborations at different stages of the temporary collaborative project through practices of modulating.

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And which we are creating, developing shared forms of expression and dealing with dormant problems. And I tried to show with these examples how this modulation practices are interlinked with both previously, existing social.

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Positionality and organizational roles through evaluating practices which in turn found a response in the situation of collaborating.

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Last I found that actors orient the evaluation towards a shared work process and the live world of participants and also the ethical judgments of that to evaluate the new temporal situations they find themselves in.

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Thank you.

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Okay, great. Thank you very much.

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The presentation we have about 10 min. Who would like to start?

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Any questions in the room? Mr. Eden.

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You have questions of signal?

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Yeah, we have one.

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Yes.

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Hi. I was wondering because I found that very interesting with regard to actorhood. If you have a participatory participatory art project, do they also share responsibilities in the decision-making?

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So now coming from, we had a large art exhibition and there were, they shared the responsibility for the decision making in that process.

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One could say. So I was wondering if you have this idea of participation and acrehood if that isn't an important factor and how far responsibility is also shared in that project.

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I assume you're referring to the Documenta in that, in your question, right?

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It's, well, it depends. It depends on the project and I think I'm trying to it's a very good question in regards because I think sharing of responsibilities.

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It's, A key question in regard to, how this, how participants are involved and there's a huge difference in participatory projects as in others what kind of groups these people work with and what kind of topics they address.

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And also in regards to how closely they work with existing institutions like for example in this dance performance I talked about.

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Existing, in regards to how closely they work with, existing, institutions like, for example, in this dance performance I talked about, there were certain elements of the organization which were, not discussable or but also in documentary like the date and how many at what point

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they that would involve people on the other hand there are also projects which for example change their rehearsal schedule to do different things like discussing selection criteria. Etc.

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And shift roles if people don't feel comfortable in specific, tasks they, are given.

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I yeah, so it's a in regards to the responsibilities. It's it depends a lot between the project so it's difficult to Give you an answer for all participatory art projects, but it is debated in them.

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And I think one, huge difference is also if projects are move on the. Organized.

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For in a bottom upup, men are in a and more located in an activist team while others are more organized on with top down approaches like for example some strongly through art institutions who sometimes already have CVs of potential participants.

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Okay, great. Is there another question either? In the room or Online if

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Not the I would just very quickly I would like to ask a question or rather 2 questions to quick questions.

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I hope one is that in sociology right we used to think of power as not something a person has but rather a relation right between the someone who exerts power and someone who is subject to power and both are constituted of that relationship and when you brought that example of that are just behaving like a trainer to you

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or to other people and then you you know, certain way about that. I was just wondering if did you find, you know, if there is a certain hierarchy between artists and lay participants.

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Is this maybe something that both you know, conference late or in practice. You know, constitute, both behave in a certain way that people also behave in a way to the artists that they give them authority and then the artists take that authority, you know, if this is something that's entwined or rather this

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is something that the artists push or maybe there are different. different ways. How this plays out and The other one I was also thinking that what the artists do in your case here is that they sort of acquired this new scale of translating right translating all these inputs into something that might make Sends

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artistically. So it's just I think you call it curating maybe so I was just wondering if that could be something interesting as a new skill that artists need to have just not only.

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Craft something or artistic Lee but also become skillful in filtering inputs from. Different.

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Thank you very much for these questions. for the regarding the power dynamics, definitely and they I think they are dealt with.

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I think, something I find interested in this kind of projects that I'm looking in is that they usually start with some kind of power difference as It's usually the artists who initiate these projects and also have like for example in the very beginning the possibility to choose which participants to work with.

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With others, there are some differences in projects. In and also in this cases when participants actively it address artists to participate in their projects.

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I think it's a very, strong dynamic in the beginning, day then tend to follow their work for a while and want to learn from them.

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So it's a little bit just kind of. Relationship but I think depending on the project and many projects this kind of division gets questioned and and acted in in different forms like for example if you think about this project like what very strong practices participants for example have is withdrawal not showing up anymore and several artists, for example, have is

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withdrawal, not showing up anymore. And several artists are not showing up anymore and several artists are very frustrated like we talked about being frustrated about it and several artists are very frustrated like we talked about being frustrated about it and that in the end means, very frustrated, like we talked about being frustrated about it and that in the end means that their project doesn't

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work anymore. Demanding. Other timetables demanding, also based on, ethical, values of participants.

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To remove specific aesthetic expressions like not having delivered a course on this stage or things like this.

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But especially in this kind of project which theater or dense performances in, classical, locations.

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So they, like they are performed at classical locations. I think this division that there is a strong artist

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More collaboration. And there are some differences in regard to it. Moments of the project where this becomes more relevant than not us.

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Regarding the new skills of that artists also require there is some debate also in art about an organizational turn or this skill of corrating or the role of also the role of creators having becoming more important and also and it has been debated in regard to for example, Requits ideas of of the rise of of singularity as a general value and

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I think this is also something where this kind of projects also the willingness to participate could be an element.

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But there are also other skills that, artists and need to acquire and one, for example is, practices of listening because, not only in, in the sense that, they, they have to, to, and that they have to ensure that participants want to stay because I don't have

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to. But the participants want to stay because they don't have to stay because they don't have to stay because they don't have to.

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But also, because very often these projects have political, critical, starting points and want to change the world for the better.

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And very much confronted with this debates of appropriating etc.

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Okay, great. Thank you very much. Yeah, unfortunately a good time.

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I'm really sorry. But, we're out of time. And we have to.

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Keep on, maybe you can. Ask the question the chat in between. I think at least we'll be happy to answer that.

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So now we've learned that art artists need to listen and how to get a job in.

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IT and we are turning to our third presentation now changing the field again. Moving on to mental health.

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And it's an in-person presentation.

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Let me go through.

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Yeah, Yeah. Right. Thanks so much. It's lovely to see you all in person.

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It's fantastic to be doing this live with apologies. It's fantastic to be doing this live with apologies to see you all in person.

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It's fantastic to be doing this live with apologies to people who are watching this online with apologies to people who are watching this online.

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I think it's a wonderful thing to be able to do this online. I think it's a wonderful thing to be able to be finally back together sharing this week together like doing a Nicholas Hill here in the room as well.

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I'm a co-author on this piece of work. I will rattle through some of this.

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In interest of time. Again Okay, perfect. Thanks.

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I'll just start with a little bit of the kind of theoretical impetus that has helped with a little bit of the theoretical impetus that has helped shape our thinking about this project.

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That has helped shape our thinking about this project. This project is about the kinds of mental health supports that people who experience distress.

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Just so. Oh great. Thank you.

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Page up page down. And You have to click, and then knowledge should work. Sorry. How do I get back with?

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Sorry. Sorry, how do we go backwards? I think now it should. Or, thank you.

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All right. I'll start again. In terms of the theoretical interest that have framed some of our thinking.

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In terms of the theoretical interest that have framed some of our thinking, I want to start with a radical interest that have framed some of our thinking, I want to start with this quote from Latour because I think this really gets to the heart from Latour because I think this really gets to the heart of that talk because I think this really gets to the heart of the kind

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of political social economic complexity of the kind of political, social economic complexity of the kinds of supports that we're talking about.

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You're on life support. It's fragile. It's technical. It's public.

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It's political. If we think about the kinds of infrastructure that we all need to support a live well.

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These are political infrastructure. It's the kind of social networks that support well being are political thrown through I don't need to tell us an audience of say so just much about this.

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It could break down, it is breaking down, it's being fixed. This is the heart of the kind of research problem we have set for ourselves.

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What are the kinds of processes by which infrastructures are repaired? What are the kinds of processes by which infrastructure has become vulnerable?

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You are not too confident of those who fix it. Can any of us feel confident about the people responsible for the infrastructure in our lives?

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Do we know how they fix it? Do we know what kinds of political will inspires those efforts.

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Our current condition merely relies in a more explicit understanding that this tentative technological system, this life support, entails the whole planet even its atmosphere.

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Now that's a very perhaps grandiose way of thinking about infrastructure, but I think it gets again to the heart of the kind of political contest that defines this struggle.

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This is a contest over the conditions of everyday life, the political conditions that frame these things and how they're contested.

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Perhaps something a little bit more direct. Lauren Balant's book, the inconvenience of other people.

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Her work on the Commons and this notion of an infrastructure for trouble in time. So we are trying to think about again what are the common resources that define a life-live well what are the common resources within associates within a set of social conditions what are the common resources that build infrastructure to support mental health and well-being.

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And what about those conditions for vulnerable people? Now again, perhaps it's grandiose to start with these sorts of theoretical perspectives but this is what we trying to get to the heart of.

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We're not just trying to describe what are the kinds of mental health supports that people need to get well. That's really very important.

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There's a ton of research on that. But it very rarely touches on these broader social and political conditions.

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Infrastructure is not simply a function of social care networks. They're not simply a function of access to mental health support.

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It's critically important as those sorts of things are. There are broader, these things are nested within broader social infrastructure and that's what Nicholas and I are trying to get our heads around.

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So now I'll describe the project a little bit more directly. But thinking about this by way of kind of urban life supports, the organisation of social care.

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So this is derived from a couple of different funded projects. I won't go into the details now in the interest of time.

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We looking at the improving integration of specialist housing social care supports for people receiving alcohol and other drug treatment and inpatient care.

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So we are talking about people who are experiencing substance use problems that are experiencing mental illness, mental distress, looking at the sorts of social care networks that are available to support them and how this can be better integrated.

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That question of integration is the fundamental one. This is why we are turning to Lateur, it's why we're turning to Balant because we're trying to understand questions of integration that go beyond how can organisations talk to each other more effectively.

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Again, there's a huge literature in organisational psychology and organizational studies thinking about how can services be integrated more effectively.

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The key question for us is not how do we get service systems to work more effectively together. How do we embed service systems in more informal organic networks of social support in the community.

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That's what service systems don't do terribly well. How do we integrate them into social care networks within an infrastructure, within a social care network?

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There's the data. Here's the report those of you who are interested in the details. This is a funded report that is now available online.

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I've got the URL there. If people are interested they can come and talk to me after the presentation and I can share that with you.

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All of the details are here so I'm not going to run through the method in any particular detail today.

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Other than to say the question is what does the work of social care achieve? So this is partly we're trying to understand what is the work of delivering mental health care in an inpatient setting consist of.

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How was that work integrated through social work, through allied health professionals? How does it integrate to the extent it does with social care networks within an informal social network within a social care infrastructure.

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And how does this work? How does this work serve to repair the kinds of social networks that are important for a long-term experience of recovery, particularly for people who are experiencing recurrent mental distress, periods of housing insecurity, periods of mental health treatment, substance use treatment.

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So what we tended to find is that social care is typically organised particularly in primary health care settings around a reasonably conventional primary health care model where care is treated as a kind of unit of delivery.

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It's a separation where the idea is that people are typically assigned a caseload and they are allocated in some instances measurable hours of support.

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So carers kind of doled out and particularly here in this country we talk about a kind of residual residual care care network where people are allocated carers rationed.

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People allocated particular allotments of care treatment and support and then once that allocation runs out then they are either discharged particularly from mental health care or they are returned to the community sector where care is uncertain.

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So this is probably for those of you coming from an international audience. This is I think reasonably consistent with the experience of mental health care substances treatment in many, many parts of the world.

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Sometimes people get really good care and really good experiences and that's what the policy is and that's how it should be but quite often that's not what's happening.

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We need more holistic approaches. I think there is a lot of this is our land we get to stay in us and not work with other people because that's not our job.

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But you can't just treat one part of the issue to someone, you need to work with other services, be on the same page working towards the same thing.

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This is to return to Latour's quote. It's fragile. It's breaking down.

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You know, what are the conditions by which these care networks are sustained. This is the fundamental problem we're trying to understand.

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If you try and look at what kinds of treatment do people receive when they have substances. Problems when they have mental health problems.

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Once we see is a kind of fragmented care network like an archipelago to return to a slot of Ix language in particular.

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Kind of there, you know, dotted moments, instances of care that people are able to access and in their triage referred to other networks, other care support services.

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How they get from one service to the next is uncertain whether they actually make a successful successful transition or referral into into care in the community sector is are really uncertain.

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So how people experience care networks is very uncertain, but they tend to break down a lot. They tend to fail more often than they work.

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So the question for us is how do we repair these systems? And again, this is why we're starting with the lance notion of the commons starting with Lateurs notion of these kind of fragile ecologies because we are trying to understand how do we repair these networks.

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How do we build and sustain social care infrastructure that can support good care over the longer term. And I think relevant to the theme of the presentation the session this morning is what kinds of subjectivities do these care networks express?

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If we think about policy and we think about the aspirations that people have for these care networks, they The idea is that these networks are supposed to generate well subjects.

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We are supposed to fix people. I mean, people don't typically want to use that kind of language.

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Yeah, ideally these networks are supposed to deliver care, but people recover, they experience health care benefits, they get better.

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So the idea is that these networks are supposed to generate well subjects what we have found with the work that we've done is that is very rarely the case.

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What we tend to find is that these networks tend to generate the idea of patience. The idea of care subjects.

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So what we're trying to understand is to what extent can these care networks be augmented, repaired?

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Developed and sustained in ways that support different kinds of care outcomes. So we've taken some notion of livable life from some of Butler's work because we're trying to understand in the first instance if we think about care networks we need to be clear about what do we want these networks to generate.

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So the language of recovery is very commonly used in the Australian mental health policy so people talk about care networks the ideal aspirational goal of care is recovery and that is defined in all sorts of different ways.

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And it's not so much that we don't like the language of recovery but it is politically contested and it's politically contested for the major and perhaps most obvious reason that it's never quite clear what kinds of subjects we want people to return to.

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Recovery in its essence has some notion of a return, right? A return to something that was lost and in mental health care in particular that notion is contested.

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This idea that people are trying to return to some well state prior to the onset of illness. So our recovery is contested.

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It's in, you know, contested in relation to substance use treatment. Mainly because Again, the sense is that people are compelled to recover a particular kind of subject position that people might feel deeply ambivalent about.

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So to the extent that there is a kind of a conceptual notion that might help us overcome some of these tensions.

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I think Butler's notion of liberal life is a good one and I'll quickly read what that the definition that we're using for that.

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Liverpool office a meaning of value, meaning in value, encompassing the very means by which all individuals, regardless of ability, cultural identification, ill health and background, supported in the pursuit of a good life as they create a place for themselves, contribute to their community and work to have the humanity and their dignity recognized and

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valued. So we're trying to think about how might care networks work together to deliver the conditions of livable life.

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Now the important thing to stress of course is that when it works well the delivery of professional care is utterly essential.

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One person came into my life almost 12 months ago now and she has done so much. She saw something in me, she saw my potential.

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She saw the person I could be if I were given the opportunity. So she put those opportunities in front of me.

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No one's ever done that before. That's the first time I've ever had a case manager that's actually managed my case.

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If someone had done that 10 years ago, my my life would be so different. My life would be so different now.

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So partially the kind of research problem that we've set for ourselves at this work is to understand in this instance what has worked in this instance for this individual accessing care what has made the difference.

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How can we characterize the practice of care in these contexts? How can we understand the way in which care is delivered, what care serves to achieve in these instances so we can come to understand the conditions of Liverpool life so it can come to understand that the kinds of subjectivities that are expressed in these care networks.

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What's working here?

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This is an instance of social care. I think this is where care works. If we want to understand what care achieves in these instances, it's a kind of work of repairing infrastructure.

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It's a work of connecting individuals to care networks out in their community, formal care services, so good care effective care obviously involves adequate referrals, you know, sustained treatment, sustained formal support, but it also involves nesting those formal care relations in a wider network of social care relationships, informal care networks.

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Here and family networks of course employment and training you know a sense of well-being and belonging in a community.

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So good care focuses on livable life. What do individuals need to recover, sustain and nurture the conditions of livable life.

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This is the kind of problem that I think a turn to infrastructure can help us understand. If we think about care in a formal treatment setting as the kinds of things that formal care professionals do.

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Like mental health nurses on a psychiatric ward and a hospital, social workers and so forth. This is going to help us understand.

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This is going to help us understand what good and effective care looks like to some extent what good and effective care looks like to some extent for what we're going to fail to understand what good and effective care looks like to some extent.

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But what we're going to fail to understand is how does that formal delivery of care then transition into informal care networks once someone is discharged from hospital.

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Once someone leaves residential substances treatment for example, once someone moves into a social network in a community, once they are discharged from care.

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How do we transition formal into informal care relations? What kinds of of networks of care are going to be effective over the longer term.

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Once people move out of formal care settings into community life.

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2 min.

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This is the question that we've set for ourselves and our view is that to understand that transition from the formal to the informal to understand how good effective care can facilitate that transition.

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We need to start thinking about the extent to which care helps to furnish the conditions of Liverpool life within an affective social and material infrastructure.

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So what I mean by social infrastructure following following in Connor's work is to try and start thinking about infrastructure as a kind of nested network of support.

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Again, what Latour is talking about with is the conditions of livable life within a community. Family networks, peer networks, a sense of belonging, community sense of trust within networks, education and training opportunities.

380
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Now again, these are reasonably familiar things that particularly community based services, community base agencies have been talking about for some time, community based services, community base agencies have been talking about for some time.

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But what's typically liking about for some time. But what's typically liking is some kind of conceptual framing for linking is some kind of conceptual framing for linking all these different pieces together trying to link all these different pieces together, trying to understand how formal care, formal mental health treatment, formalism.

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Trying to understand how formal care, formal mental health treatment, formal substance use treatment is nested within a formal care, formal mental health treatment, formal substance use treatment is nested within a wider set of infrastructure that include family and peer support that include care networks within a community, employment and training opportunities.

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So this notion of infrastructure or social infrastructure in particular I think captures both those formal and informal elements.

384
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So good care when it works well and this is a fundamental question still it's quite staggering to think that given the history of social science studies of mental health that this question of what is good care is still fundamentally contested that we have all sorts of evaluation report that can help us understand the design of programs that in terms of the kind of classic

385
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black box question of practice what does the practice of good care look like this is still incredibly contested. Good care contributes to the repair or restoration of social aspect of the material infrastructure is essential for liberal life.

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So this is butland. All life requires infrastructure. Is modern life is impossible without social material and effective infrastructure to sustain life.

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So Balant and Butler point to the disparities and access to these infrastructures to the extent that they generate precarity.

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Balant talks about infrastructure glitches, this notion that infrastructure is a constantly breaking down, generating glitches, generating fractures, tensions, points where care breaks down and I think that's another useful way of thinking about mental health care, particularly the kind of patchwork system that we have here in this country.

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Again, I know this is the case in many other countries as well. Our mental health systems are fragmented.

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They constantly break down, they are underfunded, they're underresourced. They constantly generate failure to the to the extent that they they fail to support individuals in times of immense distress.

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In particular. So we can talk in this case about mental distress, housing and security as an example of infrastructure glitches and the kinds of supports that people need to recover from periods of adversity.

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So the point here is that the infrastructure is need constant maintenance and repair. And so to the extent that we think about mental health care as a particular kind of infrastructure.

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We've grown used in this country to thinking about, arguing about the ways in which mental health care is funded.

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We're grown used to in the context of a housing crisis in this country. We've grown used to arguing about social housing support more funding for the public provision of housing.

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What we don't do very well is think about water kind of infrastructure turn where we are trying to understand how does public provisioning sit within the community-based network of informal resources that we know are essential for recovery.

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We know are essential for a life lived well. We know are essential to live life. How do we conceptualise the relationship between public provisioning and mental health support.

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Substance use treatment, public housing in particular. How does that sit within a wider network of informal care and support?

398
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And this is where again I think the language of social infrastructure helps us by providing a conceptual framing for understanding how these different bits and pieces fit together.

399
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We know what happens when these networks break down and those of you who are visitors to Melbourne, perhaps this is something that's familiar from your part of the world from the city that you live in.

400
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This is something from Albanians that we have not historically seen much of. Homelessness in this country has historically been a hidden phenomenon.

401
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We have not had public rough sleeping in this city until reasonably recently. This is very confronting. It's confronting for all sorts of reasons.

402
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I'm thinking about the kind of confrontation of the kind of ethical lure that this presents for us.

403
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What kind of city do we want to live in? What are our obligations to other citizens? What responsibility do we have as citizens for the repair of social infrastructure.

404
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And those of you who are visitors to Melbourne sadly will see a lot of this in Melbourne as you are wandering around.

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The city over the next couple of days. It is a profound indication. Ask about this geographer talked about this as the kind of profound kind of instance of the kind of profound kind of instance of urban failure.

406
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But this is this is what happens when our cities break down if we think about cities break down. But this is this is what happens when our cities break down.

407
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If we think about cities as kind of machines for the reproduction and we think about cities as kind of machines for the reproduction and circulation of resources then this is an example of where urban place breaks down.

408
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What our obligation?

409
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I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we already almost 4 min over time. So we need a little bit of time for a discussion, I think.

410
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So could you just maybe?

411
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I will, I will finish that.

412
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Oh Yeah.

413
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No.

414
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Yes, I'm very sorry. It's a very important topic, but I think it's also the more important to talk about it together.

415
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Excellent.

416
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Now we, heard, we learned about your project and your report and are there any questions in the room

417
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Yes, great.

418
01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:07.000
Yes? Thank you for your fabulous presentation. I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about support for the informal.

419
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So there's a lot of talk about linking the 2 together. I think I'm gonna lean on the work of a colleague of mine, Louise Byrne, a peer workforce.

420
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My feeling is we're seeing a peer workforce emergency with mental health. That's, I mean, decades old now, but we're seeing in this country that's becoming much more sounds logical to formalize but where we have people who identify with a lived experience a mental illness sort of stress that experience of substance use treatment event hard lived

421
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experience of housing homelessness. We're seeing increasingly agencies employ people with peer experiences to work within a peer workforce.

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I think that is transforming our services because peers tend to bring that that sensitivity to those informal elements into their work.

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And so I think they are transforming our services. And so we're increasingly in this country trying to work out what types of formal organisational supports are needed to support peer workers in the workplace.

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Obviously they have different kinds of needs at work. Compared to other kinds of employees. So there's all sorts of debates about remuneration and training and support, debriefing and these sorts of things in more medical settings but I think to the extent to which we're seeing housing services and mental health services in particular start to support a

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peer workforce to start training them properly, paying them properly, integrating them into into formal care delivery. I think that is transforming services because they bring this kind of sensitivity to these more informal elements.

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I think that my feeling is that's the most effective way of doing it. Thank you. Cool.

427
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So any other questions either on Zoom or

428
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We have one in the room if you want

429
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Yeah, of course. Okay.

430
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Thank you for the interesting talk. I was wondering how it is in the Australia in Germany. A lot of the informal work is in Australia.

431
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In Germany, a lot of the informal work is done by women. A lot of the informal work is done by women and how it is done by women and how it is organized in Australia and how it is organised in Australia and what kind of support is organised in Australia and what kind of support network is there for families.

432
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I think we are doing a little bit better in mental health care. Nicholas knows much more about this than I do.

433
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A little bit better. Bringing families into into treatment so the idea of family and peer support sort of family care and networks.

434
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I think we're doing a little bit better with that. Nicholas might have a different view.

435
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I think there's still a long way to go but I think certainly there's a recognition that families are critically important there's a recognition of Caribbean there's a recognition that the carers are an incredibly important part of those kind of informal networks of care.

436
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So I think there is, you know, there are all sorts of community-based kind of family and peer support networks.

437
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I think there's a recognition that that's important but to the extent that it's funded adequately that it's probably recognised in policy I think that there's all sorts of debates about that for sure.

438
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Great. We have one question on Zoom. And, yeah, Katya, please.

439
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Yes, thank you very much for the presentation. I wondered, about your compare reason. So you have 3 different sectors that you are looking at and 3 different forms of networks or interfaces that relate the formal to the informal.

440
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Is there any variation that you could that you find in your data with regard to whether we are dealing with housing or mental health problems that that could be leading to some sort of solution.

441
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That's such a cool question, thank you. Think it is a cool question because there is significant variation between those sectors.

442
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And my feeling is that if we think about peer support in mental health care, that's reasonably well developed.

443
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Certainly I think in the mental health workforce in this country there has been a long-standing argument about the need to support peers in the workplace to integrate them into service to the ridge of properly pay them to train them and support them in substance use treatment there are some peer based models, so residential rebilitation services have a peer model.

444
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They're typically not paid though. And in housing support that's really only just starting. So here in Victoria there are a couple of agencies, the Council of Homeless Persons, Unison Housing, a couple of the larger housing agencies are kind of experimenting with the idea of a peer workforce.

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They're not typically paid just yet. There might be an honorarium or a kind of token financial benefit but but oftentimes it's financial benefit but that oftentimes it's more kind of to see job training opportunities rather than paid work in particular.

446
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So there are significant differences between the sectors that I think are critically important. So you've, that's a crucial insight to shore that out.

447
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So thank you.

448
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Thank you.

449
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Okay, great. Thank you very much. I think we have to, move on to the next presentation.

450
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Awesome. Thank you.

451
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Okay.

452
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So, Both presentation. Another second time Oh, we're turning to Hollywood and, Julia, So share more findings with us.

453
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Just joining us online.

454
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Hi, thanks so much. Oh yeah, hi, I'm just gonna share my screen. Hopefully it'll work.

455
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Okay. Thanks so much for having me. It's been, I've learned so much about this past hour and I'm really glad to be here across multiple time zones with people.

456
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My project has evolved since I first submitted it so the new title is Managing Up Assistant Work and Petrimonial Relations in Hollywood.

457
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You might know. Oh, sorry. Okay, so you might know, assistant work from, Hollywood's own, depictions of it.

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Both within Hollywood. So swimming with sharks is a film about assistance and their bosses and of course the Devil Wars Prada and all the ridiculous things that assistance are asked to do in the fashion industry and then symptoms and there's many other depictions of assistant work.

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Made by Hollywood. So this paper, just a brief introduction is an attempt to develop a way to think about assistance.

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It's an in-depth qualitative study. I interviewed current and former assistants in Hollywood.

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So they worked for and in many cases became writers, show runners, directors, producers. Agents, managers.

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And in Hollywood, these are known as above the line roles and they're generally considered to be the principles of film and television projects.

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And just a note on language, the Hollywood is, they call themselves the industry and these role so an executive at a studio be called an executive and their principal and I could use that language in addition to the language of agency relations which I get into much more in the paper but not so much in this presentation because I have limited time but

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I go in between the the language of executive and assistant and principal and agent. So in this case the assistant would be the agent of the principal.

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Yeah.

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So I'm just gonna do a brief, some brief layer to review. So Weber, of course, describe patrimonialism as an ideal type of traditional authority.

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And in vapor he writes in patrimonial systems, whether that be the house or the enterprise or the state, the most fundamental obligation of the subject is the material maintenance of the ruler.

468
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Sorry, I'm just having a little bit problems with my screen. Okay, so for Weber, material maintenance included gifts, food, clothing, armor, rent, tax revenue.

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In extreme cases, subjects have been obliged to pay their masters debts, ransoms and diaries.

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But of course the application of subject to master is not limited to financial and material upkeep, but also extended into the realm of service.

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So during a feud in the Middle Ages, for example, support could be in compulsory service as a page or warrior.

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So a crucial distinction of patrimonial systems is the dissolution of the boundary between private and official spheres.

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So patrimonial is a kind of a petrimonialism as kind of extension of the ruler's house.

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Where political administration is a personal matter. Task performed for and in name of the patron patrimonial ruler are not in personal duties curved by regulatory and administrative norms.

475
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:58.000
Rather, their demonstrations of fealty in which principal permits no limitations. So I asked how then is maintenance of the ruler material or otherwise a accomplished in contemporary iterations of patrimonial relations and I turned to scholars of work and organization.

476
01:21:58.000 --> 01:22:06.000
So, rational legal bureaucracies have not wholly replaced patrimonial systems in modernity or postmodernity.

477
01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:11.000
Hybrid forms of patrimonial bureaucracies exist in politics and industry.

478
01:22:11.000 --> 01:22:21.000
One recent paper by Megan Tobias Meeley examines how the hedge fund industry is in part structured by the patrimonial tenants of loyalty, trust and tradition.

479
01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:35.000
She finds that white men maintain their supermajority in the industry through gendered and racialized recruitment and moulding of protege's head fenced managers known as chiefs and kings trained their prodigies in their personal investment tradition.

480
01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:41.000
However, Neely's research in addition to Isaac Ariel Reeds and Julia Adams work on agency and patrimonialism focuses on downward ties.

481
01:22:41.000 --> 01:23:02.000
So how firms, recruit, train, and bond oil protease. In contrast, I seek to highlight the bidirectional nature of patrimonial ties and focus on how agents must manage upwards to their chiefs and kings.

482
01:23:02.000 --> 01:23:12.000
And overlooked but important discussion of patrimonialism in the work place is found in Rosbeth Moss Canter's Classic Men and Women of Aquation.

483
01:23:12.000 --> 01:23:30.000
In her ethnography of and american corporation if she calls in go in the 19 seventies she finds that there are pockets of the personal trapped inside the bureaucracy, between bosses and their secretaries.

484
01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:40.000
Tantor writes that, secretaries that in SCO achieved success by specializing in the particulars of that boss's needs wants and interest.

485
01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:53.000
They could learn the boss rather than the organization. They can induce a relationship of dependency with bosses in which bosses would come to which come to count on their ability to anticipate their needs to respond to requests without explicit orders.

486
01:23:53.000 --> 01:24:00.000
To know what the boss would want or would do at any time. This is congruent with the demands personal field TM service.

487
01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:10.000
So here, Canter begins to reveal how maintenance of the patrimonial ruler or boss is achieved in twentieth and 20 first century workplaces.

488
01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:20.000
So the secretary must manage upward by thinking as and for her superior, which in turn causes the boss to become reliant downward upon the secretary.

489
01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:24.000
So there in the paper I talk about there are many parallels between the experiences of secretaries in the nineteenth seventies and the Hollywood's Hollywood assistance today.

490
01:24:24.000 --> 01:24:34.000
There's also some differences that I don't have time to get into. But some recent questions.

491
01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:41.000
How is maintenance of the principle material or otherwise accomplished in contemporary patrimonial workplaces?

492
01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:52.000
How do agents serve principals in Hollywood? What is the work of Hollywood assistance? So that's what I'm going to talk about today and in the paper I also addressed how do lower-level workers advance in patrimonial workplaces.

493
01:24:52.000 --> 01:25:04.000
How do agents become principals and how do you assistance achieve promotions in Hollywood? So in brief, I find that assistance as agents maintain their principles by managing up.

494
01:25:04.000 --> 01:25:13.000
The work of managing up involves a cognitive dimension of thinking as and for the principle which moves beyond previous sociological descriptions of Asian work.

495
01:25:13.000 --> 01:25:22.000
I use the term egentic surveillance to describe the process by which agents learn how to think and act for their principle.

496
01:25:22.000 --> 01:25:34.000
I use, I borrow the term surveillance as the practice of observing and gating experimental, experimental insight from below, which is borrowed from Steve Mann and Smoak Brown.

497
01:25:34.000 --> 01:25:42.000
I find a genetic surveillance is conducted in order to forge and maintain patrimonial bonds in the workplace.

498
01:25:42.000 --> 01:25:49.000
So over some, methods and data very quickly. I did 84 semi structured, interviews.

499
01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:57.000
This paper focuses on 58 interviews with current or former, assistance. The interviews are around an hour.

500
01:25:57.000 --> 01:26:03.000
Half of the interviews were recruited through snowball sampling and then the other half were recruited randomly.

501
01:26:03.000 --> 01:26:19.000
I use it abductive approach and, all the interviews where we're interviews live in in Los Angeles or New York with the majority of them living in Los Angeles.

502
01:26:19.000 --> 01:26:25.000
So there are 58 current and former assistants, 13 are current assistance and 45 or former.

503
01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:35.000
The average age of my interviewee was 34. So it's probably because I enjoyed so many more former assistance.

504
01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:36.000
And my sample it might be a little bit more diverse than what is the actual population of assistance in Hollywood.

505
01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:51.000
I have, 64% of were white and according to one survey in Hollywood from 2171 75 or 7% were white.

506
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:59.000
It's very hard to get accurate. Demographic data on this population. So.

507
01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:10.000
What is assistant work in Hollywood? Sherry Ortoner, who's an anthropologist and wrote a book about the independent film community.

508
01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:20.000
Writes that the inside outside binary is an elementary structure of Hollywood. So she describes the industry as secretive, competitive, and and fast paced.

509
01:27:20.000 --> 01:27:27.000
I also find the industry at in very similar terms. And it's very heavily invested in maintaining a kind of Gahmanian front region back region.

510
01:27:27.000 --> 01:27:39.000
And so I find that principals offer assistance. Access to an insider view of the industry in exchange for Falty and service.

511
01:27:39.000 --> 01:27:57.000
So assistance are ostensibly. Hired in an administrative capacity. To, increase administrative efficiency and release the principle from mundane routine responsibilities so that they can devote their time to more creative urgent.

512
01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:09.000
And higher priority tasks. So on paper the assistant to the principal is responsible for scheduling meetings, booking travel, handling requests.

513
01:28:09.000 --> 01:28:25.000
I interviewed assistants who worked at studios and at networks in addition to like in a writers room for a television show and despite the variety of different types of assistance, all of them reported doing performing at least some tasks outside the bounds of what would be considered administrative.

514
01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:45.000
So these more personal tasks range in degree of intimacy from like walking dogs. DELIVERING a dry cream leaning, serving as a chauffeur to Planning bachelor parties and family vacations and plunging toilets and searching through a producers bedroom for a dates lost hearing.

515
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:57.000
So as is consistent with patrimonial systems, the boundaries between private and official spheres of work are thoroughly blurred and subject to change based on the principal's needs and whims.

516
01:28:57.000 --> 01:29:07.000
So task to maintain one's principle is not necessarily delegated downward from principal to assistant, but rather gleaned upward through a genetic surveillance.

517
01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:16.000
Observing and gaining experiential insight from below. Assistance learned how to think as and for their bosses and manage up.

518
01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:28.000
So assistance conducts aentics advance throughout the day. When they read their boss's emails, they sit down meetings and importantly they listen in and monitor their phone calls.

519
01:29:28.000 --> 01:29:35.000
So Vanity Fair had said it's magazine and it's said every call in Hollywood has no fewer than 4 people on it.

520
01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:41.000
So assistants listen into their principals calls on mute and based on the discussion they over here create a list of action items for both the assistant and principal to perform.

521
01:29:41.000 --> 01:29:51.000
Elias, a former assistant says that and you become the assistant becomes responsible for everything discussed on calls.

522
01:29:51.000 --> 01:30:02.000
He says like if your boss doesn't do something, it's your fault. If your bus doesn't think about something, I've been accused of not preemptively starting up a conversation about a project with my boss.

523
01:30:02.000 --> 01:30:10.000
So the onus is on the assistant to do from the phone call. What actions must be taken but also to proactively direct their principals attention.

524
01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:21.000
To necessary actions, and ensure that they follow through. Systems often learn how to conduct a genetic surveillance from their peers and predecessors act rather than their principals.

525
01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:32.000
So when assistant leaves one job for another and there's very high turnover and they create something called a desk Bible, which is a kind of instruction manager manual for managing up.

526
01:30:32.000 --> 01:30:41.000
So byles contain administrative information like the principles passwords and login information, but also more personal directives.

527
01:30:41.000 --> 01:30:53.000
Elias again writes, I made a 35 page Bible with everything in it. From her breakfast or to how she likes her coffee, her kids daycare information, her favorite people, the people she doesn't want to answer the phone for to how she likes things to be printed.

528
01:30:53.000 --> 01:31:06.000
You know, everything. There was every single detail to the point that like we all know there's Dest Bibles, but I was embarrassed that my boss would see it because there was so much information but you needed it all in order to do your job right.

529
01:31:06.000 --> 01:31:19.000
So the assistance capacity to conduct Ajentic surveillance and think as and for their principle across private and facial spheres can lead to a kind of extreme dependency upon the assistant.

530
01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:24.000
Charlotte, a former assistant to a producer, said of her relationship to her former boss, I was not only insistent, I was his mother, I was his wife, I always his alarm clock.

531
01:31:24.000 --> 01:31:33.000
You know, he was a single guy and it's like was worth entirely. He was incredibly dependent on me.

532
01:31:33.000 --> 01:31:39.000
Iris and assistant said that if assistance decided to strike the town would sit down. There are people who cannot function.

533
01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:45.000
Principals have a kind of blind faith in their agents capacity to guide them through their daily lives.

534
01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:56.000
And these cases, the assistant becomes accountable for the boss. Successfully managing up then creates a provisional in inverse and hierarchical power relations as described by Read.

535
01:31:56.000 --> 01:32:05.000
Instead of principals who send and bond agents the agents send in bond principals to complete their own projects.

536
01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:18.000
Assistance are held responsible for quite literally dispatching their bosses throughout their daily routines. If the principal is laid or not to be found, the assistant is called upon to locate their boss and produce them.

537
01:32:18.000 --> 01:32:25.000
Assistants must direct their bosses to their businesses, lunch meetings, hair appointments. Iris and assistant said how her boss had confessed for her.

538
01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:31.000
Sometimes I think for myself, oh, you could just be like he's not getting on the flight because I follow everything you tell me.

539
01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:34.000
He's like if you said they'll fight left 1130 and left at 1030 I'd be like okay and I would just go or you could just cancel my ticket and I had no idea.

540
01:32:34.000 --> 01:32:43.000
And he's like, you could just take me down. You know the code to my house.

541
01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:51.000
So in conclusion, Assistance exchange service and Falty for an insider view of the industry.

542
01:32:51.000 --> 01:33:02.000
They are ostensibly hired in an administrative capacity. Though in practice, they're in a much broader and complex role where they manage the where they manage their managers across private and official spheres.

543
01:33:02.000 --> 01:33:09.000
I find that genetic surveillance is key to the delicate work of managing up and is this a core aspect of patrimonialism.

544
01:33:09.000 --> 01:33:27.000
Assistance observe and gain insight from below in order to manage up. Surveal helps agents learn to hack learn how to think and for the think as and for their principles which is essential to their daily work of managing their managers and also longer term goals of shaping their careers in Hollywood.

545
01:33:27.000 --> 01:33:32.000
This paper adds a cognitive lens to the study of principal agent relations and contemporary workplaces.

546
01:33:32.000 --> 01:33:37.000
And in particular, workplaces which are organized in part by a kind of patrimonialism.

547
01:33:37.000 --> 01:33:49.000
The study also answers Cousin, Cans, and Mirrors call for theoretical work on elites and power and in particular the bid for research on patrimonialism and elite in that's it.

548
01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:52.000
Thank you.

549
01:33:52.000 --> 01:33:56.000
Very nice.

550
01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:05.000
For these fascinating insights. I can see a question right away. In the first row.

551
01:34:05.000 --> 01:34:26.000
Thank you for your wonderful presentation. So I have 2 questions. Number one is in your context or other empirical work do you find a theoretical alternative to patrimonial relations in this agent.

552
01:34:26.000 --> 01:34:42.000
Or is this patrimonial relations everywhere and it's just a difference in degrees? And second question is about how gender plays into your findings.

553
01:34:42.000 --> 01:34:53.000
So as you describe the patrimonial relations in my mind, I'm assuming men, bosses, and women assistants.

554
01:34:53.000 --> 01:35:03.000
Yeah, I wonder if empirically that's the case. And B, if you know there are when and bosses and men, assistants.

555
01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:10.000
Does that change the dynamics that you just described? Thank you.

556
01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:18.000
Yeah, thanks for those great questions. I've actually been thinking about, The first questions a lot.

557
01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:24.000
I think that patrimonialism is kind of woven throughout Hollywood and it varies in degrees.

558
01:35:24.000 --> 01:35:33.000
So I would say the relationship with the between the assistant and their boss or the is a very clearly patrimonial relation.

559
01:35:33.000 --> 01:35:44.000
But a lot of these corporations, in Hollywood and big studios, their multinational enormous corporations that have stockholders and answer to a board of directors.

560
01:35:44.000 --> 01:36:06.000
And in those those are much more highly bureaucratized. So I think that you can have principal agent relations that are not patrimonial.

561
01:36:06.000 --> 01:36:15.000
If that answers your question. And in terms of the gender, yes, I'm going to address this like later in the paper.

562
01:36:15.000 --> 01:36:19.000
But it's a great question. So,

563
01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:31.000
I have found many instances of men assistance and women bosses or women principals. My, what I found is that it's very specific to the principle of who they want to hire.

564
01:36:31.000 --> 01:36:45.000
So some women want to hire women. Some women want to hire men. Some men say I don't want to have competition with another man so I want to hire women.

565
01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:53.000
Some men are like I want the the assistant to be exactly like me. So gender is kind of an individualized characteristic of the patrimonial relation.

566
01:36:53.000 --> 01:37:13.000
I haven't found a pattern yet. Other than that so I need to do some work I think another round of coding in my data, but that's what I have at the moment.

567
01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:16.000
Okay, thank you. Is there another question? Yes.

568
01:37:16.000 --> 01:37:30.000
Come, yeah. Thanks Julia for a great paper. It's really fascinating and suggestive as well but I can't help being reminded of a French TV series called Call My Agent.

569
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:31.000
Do you know it? Yeah.

570
01:37:31.000 --> 01:37:39.000
Yeah, yeah, I have I have I seen it but I haven't I haven't watched it yet, but it's on my next looks queue.

571
01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:40.000
Okay.

572
01:37:40.000 --> 01:37:48.000
Oh, you, you just have to, right? Because in a way, your account is a kind of a sociological count of exactly the dynamics that that series explores.

573
01:37:48.000 --> 01:38:08.000
There's also an English version of it that I think is not quite as good. Called 10% but yeah you really have to have a look and it's more about relations with the talent so with the stars rather than with with producers but yeah it actually covers a lot of these themes

574
01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:13.000
I'll definitely watch it. Thank you.

575
01:38:13.000 --> 01:38:16.000
Yeah, we have one more in the room.

576
01:38:16.000 --> 01:38:18.000
Okay, right. Yeah.

577
01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:27.000
Thanks, Julia. Enjoy the presentation very much. I've been reading a little bit about the gendering of AI and personal assistance like Alexa and Siri and I wondered if this may be an unfair question.

578
01:38:27.000 --> 01:38:35.000
But it seems like the sociology of this is that there is a gendering of AI, there's a gendering of assistance.

579
01:38:35.000 --> 01:38:49.000
I wonder if there's anything to learn from your work that might help us understand A, the extent to which those sorts of AI systems are being adopted within the industry you've been exploring and what lessons for the kind of gendering of AI you work might present for us.

580
01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:52.000
That's a great question. I don't think I have a satisfied satisfactory answer, but I will try my best.

581
01:38:52.000 --> 01:38:57.000
I think in the discussion part of this paper, I'm gonna write about how, AI is a big topic in Hollywood right now.

582
01:38:57.000 --> 01:39:08.000
The, the writers guild is striking and part of the reason they're striking is because studios and networks want to be able to use AI to write scripts.

583
01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:21.000
And this proposes a lot of problems not only for the writers but for copyright because you can't copyright something that wasn't written by human at the moment.

584
01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:29.000
So, AI is very much a topic and I think that.

585
01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:35.000
I think that it's interesting to think. Like as AI, can AI fill the role of these assistance?

586
01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:43.000
And I would say no. Because you might say, oh, they can learn the boss, right?

587
01:39:43.000 --> 01:39:46.000
They conduct surveillance all the time, right? They can learn the boss, right? They conduct surveillance all the time, right?

588
01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:51.000
If an AI system is on all the time, a series on all the time, it's kind of the best surveillance.

589
01:39:51.000 --> 01:39:59.000
However, the assistance, get involved in kind of political squabbles that the principles have between each other.

590
01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:08.000
So arranging for a meeting, becomes a very political act like who comes to whose office and what time are we scheduling this?

591
01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:11.000
And so I think that for the moment assistance will be replaced. I really don't. Have an answer on the gendering issue.

592
01:40:11.000 --> 01:40:25.000
Yet. So I apologize, but that's just my 2 cents on AI in Hollywood.

593
01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:30.000
Yeah, great. Thank you. I think there is a question in the room.

594
01:40:30.000 --> 01:40:31.000
That is it.

595
01:40:31.000 --> 01:40:36.000
Yes. Thanks. Thank you for the interesting talk. What I was wondering about you said that the turnover was very high.

596
01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:43.000
What is the job that agents do afterwards after they've been an agent?

597
01:40:43.000 --> 01:41:01.000
So many assistants, do multiple stints as, as assistance so that in the second part of the paper I'm trying to talk about how the assistant wants to be a writer, but it's very competitive to get a writer's assistant job.

598
01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:04.000
So at first they go to an assistant at an agency and there's a kind of training program and then they kind of move step stepwise trying to get into the writers room.

599
01:41:04.000 --> 01:41:14.000
So many assistants will do multiple stints as as an assistant. I think almost all of my interviewees had more than one job as an assistant.

600
01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:23.000
That can last for 2 years or for 6 years. And so how assistant gets promoted is like the second part of the paper.

601
01:41:23.000 --> 01:41:42.000
And it's, I'm trying to say that they're, they try to move stepwise and also try to pick their bosses or pick the right principal who will then transform them from agent to principle.

602
01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:51.000
Yeah, thank you. I put myself on the list. because I was upon your top very interesting and I think you also possibly answered one of my questions which was why would people become assistance?

603
01:41:51.000 --> 01:41:57.000
So it's a there is a career trajectory. It's a stepping stone too.

604
01:41:57.000 --> 01:42:06.000
Other chops in Hollywood. Just sort of what I assume because why would someone, you know, subject themselves to that kind of.

605
01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:21.000
Job if they didn't get anything. But what I was always wondering in terms of your theoretical framing or maybe historical framing also could be that in the literature on client patronage relationships.

606
01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:22.000
Yes.

607
01:42:22.000 --> 01:42:30.000
So I was pretty close to what you describe as Patreonialism but not exactly the same as where you learn is that You know, you live at the goodwill of the patron, but the patron also does something for you.

608
01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:37.000
So it's.

609
01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:40.000
Yeah.

610
01:42:40.000 --> 01:42:42.000
Oh.

611
01:42:42.000 --> 01:42:43.000
A free wind.

612
01:42:43.000 --> 01:42:46.000
I think we lost him or he's back.

613
01:42:46.000 --> 01:42:47.000
Hi.

614
01:42:47.000 --> 01:43:01.000
Well, last year, yeah, yeah, that was just wondering if you, if you did look into, the, or if our more of a comment maybe that You might benefit from looking a bit into the history of this, you know, pre-modern labor relations of client and patron.

615
01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:07.000
Yeah, I did. I did look into it. I kind of went down a rabbit hole when I was free reading Weber.

616
01:43:07.000 --> 01:43:19.000
And I think there is very much a, the trick I think in the in the modern or postmodern example is to how what is your patron providing for you?

617
01:43:19.000 --> 01:43:27.000
And so they have the assistant or the agent has to try to find a patreon that will provide them what they want.

618
01:43:27.000 --> 01:43:39.000
And so I'm trying to sort of examine, you know, assistance looking for the right boss.

619
01:43:39.000 --> 01:43:59.000
Who will who will grant the privileges that they that they want. But mainly you know What I found is that the canter's example from the 19 seventies is actually kind of the most accurate in terms of patronage relations.

620
01:43:59.000 --> 01:44:06.000
Okay, thanks very interesting. We have some more question by Yuan.

621
01:44:06.000 --> 01:44:16.000
Yeah, hello. Thanks for, very interesting presentation. And maybe you talked about this but can you say something about Where do the assistance, come from?

622
01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:33.000
Do they have any education? Or are they socialized to this role when they start a job or what kind of backgrounds do they have because it seems like a very and aware that you need to have some sort of knowledge about to be able to like perform the work.

623
01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:36.000
Can you say something about that?

624
01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:44.000
Sure. Yeah, all of, all of the assistance had some college or college degrees except for one.

625
01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:59.000
And only 2 assistance had kind of, you know, close family ties, in the industry. So there's a lot of talk in the industry about nepotism, but I think if you have better ties, you don't need to start as an assistant.

626
01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:12.000
Or some do but for a much shorter time than kind of the assistance that I interviewed. Many assistants studied film or communications or media and then they also had a series of internships.

627
01:45:12.000 --> 01:45:28.000
So I talk a lot about where I, there's some literature about internships in in cultural fields or cultural production and so many many assistance do internships.

628
01:45:28.000 --> 01:45:39.000
As a as kind of an entryway and then they view the, the assistance ships in the agencies and the challenge agencies are kind of considered like grad school.

629
01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:50.000
They call it grad school. So there's a they go through like a training program where they have to start in the mail room and then they're a floater and they float at different desks and then they try to get they try to find a principal.

630
01:45:50.000 --> 01:46:05.000
So there is a kind of. A culturation process, I think through very like unpaid and low paid work.

631
01:46:05.000 --> 01:46:10.000
Okay, great. Oh well. We're at the end right now.

632
01:46:10.000 --> 01:46:17.000
Thank you very much. All for presenters.

633
01:46:17.000 --> 01:46:30.000
Very interesting, very different. Finding impressions, approaches and we're looking forward to. Continuing the conversation on Friday and I hope you're old.

634
01:46:30.000 --> 01:46:40.000
Going to be there and also in between all the other fascinating seconds organized by the RC 17 that MICHAEL maybe is going to talk about now.

635
01:46:40.000 --> 01:46:46.000
Are you look like you look like you're about to

636
01:46:46.000 --> 01:46:47.000
Okay, okay.

637
01:46:47.000 --> 01:46:54.000
Okay. No, I just wanted to show my face to the online participants. So we have 2 more parts of the session, Friday, 3 30.

638
01:46:54.000 --> 01:47:05.000
Our time here we continue so for anyone interested. Yep. And of course we have other interesting RC 17 sessions as well, but yeah.

639
01:47:05.000 --> 01:47:06.000
Yep.

640
01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:10.000
So thank you again. Have a nice rest of the day or night in our case.