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okay, thank you.

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Right, we might get started this morning. so yeah, if everyone can. Thank you, Steve, thanks panel for coming here before we start, we'll just do an acknowledgment of country. So on behalf of everyone, I pay respect to the spirit of the country here in

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We acknowledged the traditional owners of the land on which we meet today the war, Andrey Warren and people of the Coolant nation, and pay my respects to Elders, past, present, and emerging. So thank you all for being here. We're really excited to have this Twentieth International Sociological Association Conference here in Melbourne.

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This particular session is called women men and Lgbti, Qa. Plus people in disasters.

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The session description is gendered, impacts of disaster are different, depending on culture and socioeconomic status.

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This session offers reflection and insights into how disasters and emergency management affect women, men and Lgbtq people differently.

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Disaster, risk experience, and legacy are all influenced by gender with other aspects of marginality or privilege, exacerbating or mitigating outcomes for disaster. Survivors

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of a central concern in Australia is the increase of domestic violence against women and children and men's self harm and suicide in disaster contexts.

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This echoes similar findings in other countries as we heard this morning in a number of presentations which was so good to hear.

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It happened in other countries, from Meatran to Pakistan, the yeah Uk to the Us.

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Strategies exist to counter and prevent these damaging social consequences of disaster.

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This session will highlight effective strategies for strong individual and community disaster survival. And further, it hopefully influences emergency management to strengthen capacity through attention to gender.

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But again, people who are at the last session will know how difficult it is to influence emergency management to look beyond what they've traditionally looked at.

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I noticed that there was a possibility to have questions following each presentation. So we'll do that. I think that's a really good way.

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the first session today is by Aditi Sharan, with the paper co-authored by J. C. Gaylord, both from the University of Auckland in New Zealand, and the title is Disasters, and the other gender experiences of the Hejara community in disasters in India.

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See.

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I just with the genius.

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and that's the one is by.

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It's just

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it's kind of good for you.

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I was buzzing

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Good morning, everybody. And those were in the previous session apologies because there'll be some overlap between the 2 presentations. I'm adhi from the University of Auckland. I'm a Phd. Candidate there, and I'm working on gender beyond the binary in the disaster space.

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 you just have to get.

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So yeah, just a click. Okay, cool.

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So

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so when we are talking about gender in disasters, which is, has been an evolving theme over the years, and

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it has moved towards the inclusion of a marginalized group, and more towards the empowerment of those marginalized schools groups. But when we talk about disaster interventions they are largely limited to the experiences of women

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and understood in that way, and this is because of the conventional understanding of what gender is.

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and that is based on the but binary classifications of male female, and those who do not fit into these boxes are shoved off into the category of the other.

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Similarly, in the disaster space, there are vulnerable groups in place which are women, elderly person with disabilities so on and so forth. And again, the other minority groups which are again clubbed into one

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homogeneizing to and when you are talking about gender diverse identities.

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They are also clubbed under the category of LGBT, IQ. Plus a category which is again a very Western concept which cannot be applied

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to most of the South Asian countries. but they've been brought into that space, and where there have been some studies that have talked about the experiences of other gender identities and disasters like in Indonesia, Philippines that have talked about how these groups are discriminated against in terms of relief distribution, how they're distributed against the relief camps and in the distribution of compensations, etc. And with that reference

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To understand why this discrimination happens, this is a bit of a theoretical background of my research is like when how we understand difference is centered around the understanding of bodies.

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and, like Foucault says, it is all. it is contextual, and also in there, like embedded in history. So what we understand by this is that it is not a fixed time in history that we are looking at. It is located in a culture that is dynamic.

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And these power relations Between the perceived self and the perceived other, it determines how this difference is also perceived. So the self here is what is considered as normal, and in this context would be male, female.

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and the other would be those who do not fit into these the binary classifications, and hence they are oathered through the process of aging, and in that context I am referring to some Indian scholars for my research, which is Spraybag, Bhava, and strategy. So Spivak talks about the othering of a about and woman which has no history and no voice, whereas Baba talks about the impact of colonial discourse

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in creating and reproducing stereotypes and strategies. Take on how these groups, then Exercise their political agency in getting their rights.

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So

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so who are the Hittras? So he draws, are the oldest ethnic transgender groups of India, and they were criminalized under the colonial rule under the criminal strive acts of 1,871. And even though this act was repealed after independence, they continued to be marginalized and discriminated against till the present day.

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They are not a homogeneous group. There are some identities within the group which are also intersectional with the

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class caste, religion, age, and traditionally their role in society is off. But I, which is a ceremonial dance.

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That has done in childbirth or at the type of weddings, and this is how they used to earn a living. And in some cases still do

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so. This research is done in on the eastern coast of India, in a state called Odyssey, and in this particular city of Kuri, which is a multi-hazard prone place Generally to floods and cyclones, and also home to a large number of transgender groups

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in India. And annually. There is a It is. Cyclones happen annually in this place, but in 2,019 a very severe cyclonic storm happened which was considered the worst in 2 decades, and it impacted everybody a lot. However, the Hindras were impacted differentially.

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they could not stay in their homes because their homes were full of water. They did not have food, or Clean drinking water, they were left out of relief distribution. They could not access the cyclone shelters, and even if they did, they were discriminated against in the cyclone shelters, because these release that was distributed is done with regard to a homogeneous

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unit of a family which they are not a part of, or they're like not recognized in that way.

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or for a certain number of men and women, especially when they are to access toilets which are again there to stay in lines, and

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they were like abused in the lines by people who were like, Why are you here, you should not be here, and things like that. So

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why did they? The skeleton of impact them the way it did? So I'm looking at the process of othering, and, like I mentioned before, because of the colonial discourse that has influenced their lives, still date. They've been other throughout their life since, very young like their when they were checking like children. And it's all starts with small name calling so Mychia and Chaka There is no literal translation of what it means, but it broadly translates into a boy who behaves like a, you know.

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and these are very derogatory terms in the local language, and

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they've been called this by their family members, by their neighbors, by even teachers at schools. So it It is something that all the participants have experienced this in their lives. Apart from that mental and physical abuse, it is their male members of the family that abuse them the most, and in physically, sexually, and

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and symbolic actions, like forcefully cutting off their hair, making them dress into mail attires so that they adhere to the general roles, and the other one. The next is stopping of education, which I would call like a structural violence.

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because at very young ages they were not allowed to go to schools, and I can go in details later on. But Because of they were not educated. They are now ineligible for a wide range of employment opportunities, and even if they get managed to get some or jobs in like hotels and factories, they're discriminated against because of the gender identity which has forced them into bedding and sex work as their only viable form of for income.

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So all of that has resulted in their vulnerabilities, which we can say is rooted in their everyday lives.

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So

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they have. They have been living in hiding for a very long time. They live very secretive lives that people do not know about their lifestyles for a very long time, and which has led them to have limited access to all these government services

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and in live in poor economic conditions. With negligible resources to go. This also reflects in the space that they occupy in the city which is in the low-lying areas and the slums, and the suburbs of the city where which they can afford, and also which in which they are accepted to live in.

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So

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then what is the Government doing? Are they not aware of this situation? Of course they're aware of the situation. But Like I said before, not only the colonial discourses have influenced the minds of the people, but also they have influence. The laws and policies that have been there in India for a very long time, and Recently, after like years of mobilization and revisions, this transgender Person Act was passed in 2,090 for their inclusion in the

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mainstream developmental agenda, as we call it, and although this

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act has a lot of debates going around it, but it's still a first step of inclusion of the future groups in the development agenda. But these policy and there are more policies at state levels and local levels that are targeted towards this group, but they are not linked with the disaster related laws and planning.

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again, taking the example of cyclone. Funny so the District Administration is the local level responders, or what we say, all local level disaster management operations happen through the district administration, and their understanding of gender is again very, very limited.

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So they understand gender as women. And maybe, and on being asked this talk about how they take care of pregnant women, and you know they're if they're near the delivery stations, or if they have all the facilities and stuff like that. But the ad that is, as far as it goes, and 101.

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So when the cases of Hijaras came to them at the after the cyclone, like you learned like months or years after the cyclone, they dealt with it on a case to case basis.

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because they do not have any guidelines. To tell them how to believe with them, and therefore they were bothered yet again. And this is this happens because

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for them gender is just a checklist against a category. So for that, we need to understand. In the first place, that how these categories were formed in the first place. like, who is categorizing home

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right? And like, I said, Hijra is not a homogeneous group. there is hybridity with terms hybridity, not only in terms of the intersectional factors of class cast and age, it is also the the use of Western terms

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in the Indian context.

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I'll give you an example. Like the words trans. Man or trans. Woman was never heard in the in Indian daily lingo But now it has been brought in by activists, social workers, Ngos, even governments and people are being told that these people like you are called this.

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So

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it so. And then what happens is the identity of hijab becomes like a derogatory term, like an insult, and it ends up being a label rather than being an, you know, empowering identity. So they are getting empowered by using these Western terms as well. So there is a dilemma on use of categories, and how these categories might in turn into labels.

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so this is a poem, very favorite poem of mine from Kalki subramanium. She is a transgender artivist. So she is an artist and an activist. And if I have time, can I read it out?

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Okay? So it's The poem is called. Don't tell that to me. I am tired of you telling me how I don't like look like a transgender woman. I am tired of you telling me? I look just like a real woman. I am tired of you telling me I am so brave. I am tired of you telling me everything is perfect except my voice, which could be more feminine.

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I'm tired of you asking me when was the first time I felt that I'm a transgender. I'm tired of you asking me if I live with my family. I'm tired of your curiosity. I'm tired of your sympathy. I'm tired of your stare. I'm tired of your whispers. I'm tired of you asking me to bless you.

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to you and to the 1 million others. I want to shout. I am made of flesh and blood, of fear and hope, of joy and pain. I am like you, I am human, too.

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so we need to understand that the end of the day. These categories that we talk about these vulnerable groups. We are talking about humans. We are talking about people here, and they, like all of us in this room are so different. There's diversity in these gender groups. And that need to be acknowledged. There's context. There's multiple contexts there, multiple histories that we are a part of that need to be in a acknowledged for inclusive disasters. Production to take place in its true sense.

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Thank you.

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Yeah. I'll answer any questions.

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Yes.

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yeah.

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Can you tell me what was the prey? Colonial edit change

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to the hijar?

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So? During the colonial rule? the the we had the Criminals Tribe Act. That was passed by the British rules, and it it it was divided into 2 parts. The first part was for tribes, but the second part was for the Hera, and this for them they were.

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There was a sort of panic, because Hejoras are a very ethnic group, and they did not understand, like where to place them, they

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so the rules regarding or who

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that becomes a part of that category kept on changing

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so. It. It depended on like. So they want. From all the texts that I have read, it is very evident that the British rulers were adamant on

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Completely getting rid of them physically and in discourse. So And they tried their best, and they were like they were not allowed to perform their, but high in public. They were like punishable offences. they were not supposed to be seen with young boys, because they thought they would turn them into Hedras as well. And so there were a lot of intricate details about how they saw each, and

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but the reason that they have been able to survive. That is because

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they never dealt with the British colonial rules like directly they dealt with the Indian police officers at the local level right, and they found ways around the loopholes in the act, because

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the British were not clear what to do right, because it is not something they are used to do because he dress is not something that I found anywhere else in the world, especially in the Western context.

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So

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because these rules kept changing.

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there were like space for the Hedras to continue to exist. I don't know if I answer that question, but yes.

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the

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thanks so much. You, Daisy.

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Can everyone. Thank her

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that that was fascinating. And I think your research has a lot to teach us in Australia. Thank you for that. Next presentation is on Zoom. It's by Virginia Kajina Diaz, who co-authored the paper with Marla and Emeron

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and Sandra Deema Marina, who presented earlier from the University of Evida.

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The title is the socioeconomic Consequences of gender relations in the earthquakes in the Dominican Republic, 2,003, Honduras, 2,007 and 9, and Haiti 2,010.

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Sandra Dema Moreno: Okay? Well, thanks a lot for giving us the opportunity to present our work again. In the previous session we presented the paper related to the leading role of the population after the earthquake tsunami that took place in 2,010, using a quantitative methodology consisting in focus groups, and in this one my colleague, Virginia, is going to present a quantitative one

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Sandra Dema Moreno: in which we wanted to compare 3 countries from the Caribbean that suffer earthquakes. The countries are at Dominican Republic, high T, and on us. And if you can

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Sandra Dema Moreno: go to the next one.

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Thank you

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Sandra Dema Moreno: and well, maybe to the next one already. there you can see that  we have the same team. We are 20 of us 20 scholars from 2 Chilean universities 3 Spanish, 1 one from Ruai, and one from Dominican Republic. Maybe you can go through

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Sandra Dema Moreno: to the next one.

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Sandra Dema Moreno: And like, I moved

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Sandra Dema Moreno: to be here ready, which is going to explain how we do what we wanted to do in this paper, and which ones are our main results. Thank you.

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Virginia: Hi, good morning. Australia. Can you hear me?

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Sandra Dema Moreno: Perfect? Yeah.

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Virginia: he on the screen is almost 3 am. So for me. I'm for Sandra. I have to say good night, and if my grandmother is not on point tonight, please excuse me. So, moving on to our objective the auditory, for of our communication I have to say that the objective that we pursue is to quantify the first economic impact of the Dominican Republic, 2,003 on the Us. 2,007 and 2,009,

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Virginia: and it's 2,010 earthquakes on the situation of men and women before and after the disaster and a license, the possible existence of gender inequality gaps. If you could mo the good move to this. Yeah, this to the area is the Caribbean region, and the first of the earthquakes included in this investigation. According to 2,003, and Dominica republic it had. it's epicenter was located 3 kilometers from port of Plata, and it's reach an intensity of 7 points in the mercury scale.

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Virginia: This event resulted in 3 people killed, 15, injured on hundreds of buildings. That much and destroyed

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Virginia: the next slide, please the second and the third. Earthquakes included in this investigation occurring on us in 2,007 and 2,009. The first of them had its epicenter in Europe province, and it reached an intensity of 5 points on the Mercale scale, and these earthquake resulted in 18 people injured, and nearly 2,000 people affected.

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Virginia: and the second of the of the on the west. Earthquakes, Included in this investigation? Had it be sent in the Caribbean Sea, and it reach an intensity of 8 points in the Michaelis scale, and this event resulted in 7 people killed, for the people injure, and more than one 100 a hundred buildings affected.

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Virginia: The next slide, please. The last of the earthquakes, including this investigation, occur in 2,010 in it. it. Epicenter was located 25 kilometers for ports. Out, brings it to reach an intensity of 9 points on the Mercury scale, and I'm sure that all of you remember this earthquake because it was massive and it.

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Virginia: There was More than 300,000 people killed, more than 300,000 people injured 1.3 million people displaced on more than 1,997 1,000 homes destroyed to the next one the next one, please

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Virginia: To carry out this research, we have used the Demographic and Health Survey convicted by United States Agency for international development as a source of information.

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as the technique selected to measure the impact of the mentioned. Earthquakes on gender relations is differences in differences. These methods compiles the differences that occur over time between the affected population and one that have not been damaged, referred to as a control group, and given that our objective is to analyze the effects of the minister and earthquakes on gender relations

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specifically to find out whether female headed households have improved or worse, their conditions after them. The differences to be analyzed are those produced in the variable wealth factor or wealth index For this purpose we have used data from the service before and after the earthquakes and their study.

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Virginia: For example, in the case of when they come. Republic, the earthquake occur in 2,003. So the previous survey that we have included in this investigation was carried out in 2,002, and they for earthquake survey that we have used was carry on 2,007, and the same goes for on the rest, and it

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Virginia: to estimate the effect of the earthquakes and gender inequality. We have considered the variable 6 of the head of household, and all the variables that miss your characteristics. prior to the earthquakes, such as Education H. Number of 205, a number of household members next to slide, please the next one

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Virginia: in this table. We are showing you the results of our estimation for the urban areas of Dominican Republic on the rest, and it

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Virginia: The first value of that I want you to explain is the this one thet valuable that shows the time fixed effects of the earthquakes, and, as you can see in the table for urban areas, they are some to be negative in all of the regions under analysis, and is statistically significant. This indicates that after disaster there was a

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a generalized working in the wealth index of the households living in urban areas.

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Virginia: The next viable that I want to explain to you is this one that are valuable, and this is the territory fixed effects. And, as you can see, so there are some differences between the countries and their analysis.

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Virginia: if you see the table in the or run areas of Dominican Republic, and on the rest the effects are positive, although not significant, in Dominican republic. This means that receding in the provinces affected by the earthquakes in Andnduras will have a positive influence of on household income.

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Virginia: For their part, if you see it, you can see that the sign of this variable is negative and statistically significant.

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And these means that receding earthquake affected to run territories towards the household. Wealth

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Virginia: index the fixed effect of the head of the household on their wealth index of their families. is You can see in this variable S. H. And if you see the table you can see that the signs of this variable. It is possible, it is positive, for all of the Pullman areas of the Territories

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Virginia: and their analysis. And it statistically significant. This means that in the urban areas of all of the Territories. under analysis having A male head of the household had a positive

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Virginia: The impact on the wealth index of the families, or, what is the same, that having a female head of the household in these territories, in this in the urban areas of this Territory territories had a negative impact on the wealth index of the families.

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Virginia: the interaction of all of all of these variables, the territory, the the, the time, the territory, and the text captures. This is this one, the last one

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Virginia: captures the differential effects between the pre and post disaster, fixed effects of on household wealth by gender of the household head. If you see the table, you can see that this, the sign of this variable is positive for all of the urban areas of the countries under analysis, and it is a statistically significant it all of them.

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Virginia: And this means that after the earthquake in the province is affected by this, events. Having a male head of household had a positive impact on the wealth index of the families, or, what is the same, that in in after the earthquake, in the problems affected by these events, having a female head of the household in Rover, in Norman areas

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had a negative impact on the wealth index of the family.

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Virginia: If you can say it's like, Please

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Virginia: it. I know that it is very similar. But it's not the same table. In this case I am showing you the results of our estimation. But for the rural areas of the countries and their analysis. The variables are the same. So I understand that is very similar. But there are some differences that I am going to explain to you if you remember the t shows us the time fixed effects of

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Virginia: of the earthquakes. And in this case is negative in the Dominican Republic, I know, and on the rest, while it is, for while in it is positive this negative fixed effects indicate that after the disaster households your seed in in rural areas of Dominican Republic and on Duras. So for a generalized worst mean on on of their wealth index, while those receiving it, it show an improvement in their wealth, in ellipse. in

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Virginia: the air valuable I am showing you, if you remember, the territory fixed effects, and, as in the case in uran areas there are also some differences between the Territories and their analysis, while in on the rest of it these fixed effects are positive and a statistically significant in the Dominican Republic. They are negative and not significant. In the case of the

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Virginia: fixed effect of this text of the Household Head. There are a very important difference between the Uran areas and overall areas. If you remember, in the case of the uran areas.

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Virginia: the sign of this variable is a a. 8 8. It yep. The this one was positive for all of the countries under analysis. But in this case, if you see the table

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Virginia: the sign of the of this variable is negative in all of the countries under analysis, this means that in rural areas. having a male head of household had a negative impact on the wealth index of the families on

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Virginia: what is the same that, having a female head of household had a positive impact on the wealth index of the families. But what happens? What we look after the earthquake? if you remember this the combination of these variables captures the differential effect between the pre post disaster. Fixed effects on household wealth by gender of the of the household head

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Virginia: and, as you can see, it happens the same. Add in the urban areas that

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Virginia: after the earthquake in the program, in in the rural areas of the of the provinces affected by the earthquake having a female may may a a female head of household had a negative impact on the wealth index of the families.

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Virginia: you can pass this slide

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Virginia: to the next one, please.

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Virginia: in our results. the results of our research, we build that consistent with numbers, numbers, previous investigations that the earthquakes Dominican Republic can do as an it have had a negative impact on the wealth index of female headed households in both urban and rural areas.

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Virginia: Moreover, what is particularly striking is that before they before they disaster before the earthquakes in rural areas having a male head of household had a negative negative impact on their income, whereas after the earthquakes, it was female-headed household that's you for the client in their income. This variation could be, do So their study suggests to the fact that women's post disaster reliability is particularly high in rural areas.

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Virginia: Finally, we have to say that the dependent valuable will factor used in this work has an encompassing character, as it does not only consider the income of the families, but also the living conditions, such as access to electricity, water, and household appliances.

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Virginia: For these reasons our results allow us to observe more reliably the reality of the families effective at the earthquake. In this way we can affirm that the negative impact was generalized in all of the countries under analysis. But we can affirm that the greatest impact of this disaster was all female headed Households, and it was not only in economic terms.

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Virginia: but also in the living conditions. you can pass to the next one. here you are, some of our publication. And the next one.

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thank you so much we are open to. We are very welcome. We are very welcome to

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a comments and recommendations.

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So does anyone have a question.

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 no. yes, we've got one question.

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Hi, great presentation. I was just wondering when you're looking. We're putting together a resilience index with a gender lens. And I was thinking about this.

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about the socioeconomic factors that we were put in. Would you use

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similar factors

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that you've included here in a in a in a broader resilience index.

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Virginia: Hmm! Maybe, Sandra, can you help me to

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Virginia: answer the question?

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Sandra Dema Moreno: Sorry I have this off.

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Sandra Dema Moreno: I don't know if I understood. You mean that? for analyzing resilience, if we should use the same, that

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Sandra Dema Moreno: for analyzing vulnerability, is that your question?

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I I was just thinking in it in thinking about resilience broadly, would you use the similar factors that you've used here to to to to analyze socioeconomic

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index? Would you use that in a broader resilience index.

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Sandra Dema Moreno: I'm not sure. I think I would use

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Sandra Dema Moreno: more than that. what we have used is

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Sandra Dema Moreno: economic variables in a

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Sandra Dema Moreno: just before saying that it's not only income, it's also the conditions in which they they live. but for resilience index. I would say that we need much more than that. We can.

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Okay, thank you very much for that. thank you also for staying up till 3 Am. For us. We really appreciate that, can you? Thank? Virginia and Sandra?

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Thank you.

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So we're moving on to a presentation by our our colleague, Liam Leonard, who's presenting on. We haven't got you, Covid, including Lgbtqa, plus people in disaster, planning response and recovery.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I

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Hello! I'd like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we gather today the war, Andre. Why, we're on people the cooler nations and pay my respects to elders, past and present. I'm Liam Leonard or William Leonard, a social policy controversy, consultant and adjunct research associate at Monash University, and in a previous incarnation I was director of what is now called Rainbow Health, Australia. At the Trobe University

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the title of my presentation. We haven't got you, Covid, including Lgbtq people in disaster, planning response, and recovery

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was in part prompted.

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 by a sign that appeared on my local coffee haunt in Collingwood, an inner city, Latte City, sipping Melbourne suburb posted on their door during the first Covid lockdown in 2020 latte. We've got your covid.

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It was also prompted by a picture a friend posted a few months ago of his recent covert

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test result. positive for covid and positive for gay

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on a more serious note. It also affects the rolling back globally of Lgbtq. Rights and a growing number of Western Liberal democracies that had been considered until recently the cradle of progressive, identity-based, legislative and social reforms.

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This includes not only aggressive rollbacks in European countries like Hungary and Poland, which I'll return to briefly. It also includes a concerted nationwide attack on trans rights in the Uk. And an all-out assault on Lgbtq. People in their human rights in the United States

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the Human Rights Campaign, or Hrc. The largest Lgbtq advocacy organization in the United States called

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called it a state of emergency for LGBT. Lgbtq. People earlier this month and put out a list of States where trans people can migrate. So it's an internal refugee crisis. So we're entering a time when fewer and fewer Lgbtq people feel they and their rights are covered.

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The

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in my presentation today, I want to do 2 things. I want to give you a brief overview of the finding of an unpublished literature review. Looking at the impacts of COVID-19 restrictions on Lgbtq people in Australia.

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And I want to conclude fairly quickly, because I think I'll be out of time with some recommendations for how the specific disaster needs of Lgbtq people can be better addressed. Focusing on the recovery phase

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the Unpublished Literature Review is part of a project commission by respect. Victoria, the dedicated dedicated organization for the prevention of family violence against women in Victoria.

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the project aimed to document and unpack the impacts of COVID-19 restrictions specific to Lgbtq communities. With a focus on their experiences of domestic violence.

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I jointly managed the project with Drummond Street services.

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The project included a desktop review, a quick and dirty look at Australian international research reports on the emerging impacts of COVID-19 on career people. And that's what I'll talk about today. And a series of focus group interviews with the diverse range of Lgbtq. People of their lives under COVID-19, and also interviews with service providers who service the clear community. During this time

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the terms of the reference for the Literature Review, Written there. The scope of the research was an international review of literature. The sources I used were academic publications, policy reports and media reporting and blogs, and you can see there was quite a broad series of search terms that import the Project

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At the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic in early 2,020, the then United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, warned Lgbti people may be particularly vulnerable. During the COVID-19 crisis

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on the seventeenth of May 2,020, the international day against homophobia, Biphobia and transphobia. The United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres, was more emphatic when he declared.

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among the many severe impacts of the Kovat, 19 pandemic is the increased vulnerability of Lgbti people

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already facing bias, attacks, and murder simply for being who they are and how they love. Many Lgbti people are experiencing height and stigma as a result of the virus as well as new obstacles when seeking health care.

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while the UN Secretary's comments are limited to the impacts of COVID-19. They are, as the quote from Dorman Murray on the slide suggest, indicative of the impacts more broadly of disasters on Lgbtq people.

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So the following slides are a summary of the key issues. I did, identified in the Desktop Review, all of which were reflected in the focus group interviews, and all of which, in one way or another, confirmed the concerns voiced by Gorman Murray and the UN Secretary-general.

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So I'm talking about the impacts specific to queer people.

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The first was economic and social marginalization. We found that in Australia, Lgbtq. People were overrepresented in those sectors that were hit hardest by the COVID-19 restrictions

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During the first 2 months of the pandemic in Australia queer people's employment rove rose from 7.5 to 12.7%, almost one in 3, and I'll call queer as the shorthand. Queer respondents had lost significantly income, and one in 5 respondents had lost more than half of their income

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to show that this is not just indicative of Australia. I've put one quote, and it's from Canada, where 52% of queer households face layoffs or reduced unemployment compared to 39% of the overall Canadian households, and this data was repeated in the Uk. In the Us. And a number of other Western liberal democracies.

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prejudice, motivated violence and discrimination. Many national governments use the COVID-19 pandemic to ramp up and condone harassment and hate speech against Lgbtq people.

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some national governments and conservative political and religious leaders blamed queer people for the emergence and spread of Covid. And in the United Kingdom, again, as one example, there was a 36% increase in calls reporting homophobic discrimination, and a 70% increase in transphobic discrimination between March and April of 2,020.

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if you think these sorts of attitudes are linked to countries other than Australia. I use this quite often. This is a quote from Israel for Lao in 2,019, when he says God's Word says, for a man and a woman to be together, they legalize same-sex marriage. Look how rapid these bushfires, these droughts, all these things have come in a short period of time. God is speaking to you guys, Australia, you need to repent. That's his response to the equal love campaign.

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 human rights abuses. We found passage of discriminatory legislation, what I call a Trojan horse, where public health measures were used as an excuse to introduce explicitly queophobic legislation.

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So Poland used public health measures for Covid to stop paedophile laws. That's the term use to ban safe sex and HIV education in schools. Hungry introduced emergency powers to prevent changes to birth certificates for trans. People, and Uganda had emergency provisions that allowed it to raid LGBT shelters, and these are just a few examples.

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There was cancelling all the funding of Lgbtq programs. and the

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so I've just created. So I just pulled out some quotes there. The pandemic has created a context conducive to increased persecution. Some States have enacted measures which intentionally target LGBT people under the guise of public health

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for queer people. There was also what I call the trauma and the weight of history for many of us. The reporting of COVID-19 reminded us of the HIV Aids epidemic where there was talk of quarantine, daily infection rates, death rates, discrimination and fear

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for many queer people. Their relationship to police and public policing has always been problematic. So going out in public, being stopped by police for essentially things to do with Covid did trigger a lot of queer people. There was public surveillance apps and testings. A lot of queer people are very resistant to any form of increased public health surveillance given our histories.

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and there was 5 years of public scrutiny in Australia, starting with safe schools, the same sex marriage or equal love debate. And then the Religious Discrimination Bill for those of you so Covid just felt like one more hit to queer people.

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And that's just a quote from from Academic, who makes the action between Covid and HIV.

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There was loss of safe space. It's very particular to queer people increase isolation and access to LGBT. Q. Plus affirmative contacts.

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we know that for many clear people they rely heavily on community and networks outside of the home to be affirmed, and of course, those close down to varying degrees. Lots of queer young people in particular, but not just. Young people had to return to families of origin, many of which were hostile, and they'd left to get into queer, friendly households, and there was increased visibility and public harassment. And I've chosen one example

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from Korea, who's a human rights lawyer, and she talked about in a number of countries, that this is Panama, where they introduced public health measures, where men could go out on the Monday women on the Tuesday men on the the Wednesday, and it was to reduce the number of people public spaces. One of the unintended consequences for trans. People, particularly trans. Women, is that they became subject to all forms of harassment, and she pointed out that if they just said last names A to L on the Monday.

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and to last time's end to Z. They would have not brought into this sort of essentializing of sex and the consequences for queer people, disproportionate impacts of social distancing, distancing. I put down a few there, and unfortunately, lateral violence within the queer community. People on outing each other on app saying, You know so and so is still seeing customers who are sex workers. People are still visiting partners who are not their primary partners, and so on.

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and the the final consequence was a reduced what I called Lgbtq. Plus sector capacity. In countries like Hungary, and also in countries interest in Ireland. There was withdrawal of funds from LGBT. 2 plus community organisations to more essential work to do with Covid, and we know that a lot of those organisations won't recover post Covid because they relied on those small chunks of funding

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 That's probably I won't do the last. But is that okay? I think that's probably it's going to take me over time. But it's just some recommendations for how emergency services and recovery phase might include Lgbtq people. And you can look at the gem guidelines of Gados for some of this material

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right?

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Oh. if anyone has any questions.

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can you come to the

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yeah.

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Hello! Thank you so much for your presentation. I there was many parallels that we experience among you with the Qi. 8 people in the Philippines. I was wondering. I I just searched while I was on my laptop while we were presenting that the mon monkey box didn't really affect Australia that much as other countries. Is that correct?

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I I can't talk about the country as a whole, but in Melbourne there was a little bit of a spike, and then it dropped very quickly. And this vaccination right to Monk, where men went up really so no, it didn't have the same impact. Okay, I was wondering if

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a and there are a lot of discriminatory marks in relation to this, the the spark of monkey box, because that was more of labeled as a as an Lgbtq disease disease than Covid. What would that be? The same for Australia? no, there wasn't much of that discussion. I have to say that there was an acknowledgment that it affected gay men more than than for all the reasons about modes of transmission.

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But no, and I think that's partly because Monkey Box didn't catch on, and I'm not saying that it wouldn't provide an opportunity for some people to make those sort of comments. but I have to say in Australia, for our's comments are unusual in the current context, though those things are shifting and changing.

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not in good ways. Yeah, thank you so much.

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Thank you. Thanks, thanks so much. I am always

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So I'd like to introduce Steve O'malley. So Steve is the manager of emergency sector engagement with gender and disaster, Australia. Steve's talking about resilience in a riskier world, adapting and transforming for the future.

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just casually making his way to the mic.

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Thank you. That's always good when I've got a present in front of the boss. looking at my shoulder as she is. I've written notes as well, but think it's a great opportunity to come on and and speak on behalf of gender and disaster Australia about

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the work that we do. briefly, because it is very brief. Today. 12 min, I think, ish, well, I'll kind of as short as I can the the connotations there around resilience risk you? Well, I don't know when I broke this abstract a fair while ago. it also has adapting and transforming

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for the future. aspirational as that may sound, and resilience is a term that really does polarize a lot of people and a lot of communities as well. We know that when we're in Liz more just recently, I think it was a well earlier. I don't know what you need is now in the wake of the floods and fires. That they had. The word resilience was something that just infuriated them, because essentially government would say to them, you've been through this before, so just prepare yourself better next time.

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And they've been through this before so many times. what I needed was basically some hardware to help them in in, you know. In short, they went through absolute hell in fire, in flood. So it was a real coup for us to get there and lay them myself and a few others from the same went up there a debut there at one stage as well. it was a hell of a

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community to sort of speak about our work as well. So But today I'm going to deal mainly with the subject matter of deb doctor Debt Parkinson, in the clear Zara's research, which was the the increase in in violence against women

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during and after disasters. I want to put this slide up initially, all, firstly, because we do use this now training, and we have the accepted 4 drivers of violence at the top there the concerning of violence against down through to the mail. P relations.

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the in green there there. for there are a version of our drivers of violence. So the causes of violence during disaster. well, they have the same. They've essentially the same as the top 4. But they have a disaster overlay, basically what I I drill down into. And I think the transforming for the future

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comment in the abstract is around culture of organizations, emergency responsible organizations most specifically because they need to to to transform to actually, you know, enact some sort of culture change within the the organizations. Are they broken? Well, you know you could argue? Probably not because they they to respond. They respond pretty well. I mean, their kpis are around getting there quickly.

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mitigating the the circumstance, whatever the emergency is the culture. Could they improve chat on house rules? a little bit, if not a lot so Just as I said, we refer to these these drivers of violence, particularly with the disaster, overlay the in the green there.

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Often during our training, and we speak about the the difference between the drivers and the contributing factors, so things that people would accept as being well. Ordinarily we do a bit of a a, a bit of a what do you know about contributing factors and drivers at the start of our training?

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And invariably people pull the contributing factors out. You know that in and essentially this, a theme there, around what Dev and Claire found throughout the course of that qualitative research they do post Black Saturday. So, which is 2,009 for those who may not know. So that's it. What? What? Where? I really found my, my, my calling here, for one of the better word is around that third driver at the top. That rigid jetted stereotype, because we

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consider, or I consider particularly a 35 years in the sector as a responder, as a white male. a straight white male

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with 35 years of service. I know what the culture is like, and I know the trials and tribulations of trying to change that culture, but that rigid standard genet stereotype is one of the main contributors of of violence against women. And it's written large throughout the emergency services. I can actually say now, reflection, I don't have to reflect that long. But each of those 4 top points there, those accepted our watch Drivers of violence exist in my workplace absolutely.

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in one form or another conversations over the next table, watching TV verbally, physically. You see them and you hear them often. So have we got a problem.

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As I said before, maybe This is why I and I did change. I added the the slide there

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To put it in sequence around the effects of women on what the research is found. What's Kevin Claire found? They will also, despite Women's Health Service providers, to look at the increase in family violence, to research that. And I was they. They found that we we knew that it was already, you know, pre existing, that violence on any given day was going to be exacerbated an increase during and after a disaster for for those, as I said before, those drivers in the green.

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you know, complemented by for one of a better word, those contributing factors This is so. I did have the slide up. They do about the effects on women, but this is the second iteration of the research, or the second part of the research, which was the effects on man

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men on black Saturday. Basically, the first piece of research was the way he tells it. women speaking about their experiences around, and most importantly, their voices of as survivors of not just the disaster, but of family violence or domestic violence, gender violence, whichever term you choose to use. And I've written in my abstract, I've circled and underlying voices of survivors.

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and once again put that into a disaster and violence. context, lived experiences, lived experiences, a gendered issue, and then down the bottom significant culture change for the emergency services. Well, you know what I thought we would have gotten to that. but it is absolutely a necessity in in what you know the research tells us. If if you've had a chance to read through those lists that least absolutely

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the most important point that I'm really cut off at the end. Not most important, or one of the most important points is that acceptance of of of anger and not tease that was you know, to. In short, that was the theme around

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community partners family members forgiving those who are being violent after the disaster. Basically, he's been through what he's been through. So we should forgive him. Based on the stresses he's, you know, in the, in the the pressures he's endured during the course of the of the disaster. As I said before, you can it to change fire and flood absolutely in this, in this research, without a shadow of doubt. And then, considering Covid as another disaster, and we trained a lot during Covid and absolutely

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what we did find is that reporting of family violence came to the for a lot quicker during covert than it did so

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post Black Saturday, where people were hiding. The fact that they were going through what they were going through. But in Covid it was like. It was a an absolute sense of urgency, and that laboratory, like conditions of coercion and control within lockdown situations was just writ large.

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through our communities.

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 men's experience. So this sort of summarizes it a little bit. Increased pressure or mentor. This is this is exactly what the research found. There's an increase pressure on me to conform to rigid, damaging, masculine stereotypes. That third determinant, or that third driver which is all the way through the our disaster, overlay drivers of violence

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during and following disaster, during response and recovery. So the response is where most of the men are in. In actual fact, in recovery. It's where most of the women are, and there's gender. There's genders play at gender plays a role right through that continuum. The emergency management sector, we call it prevention, preparedness, response, and recovery.

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And majority of those people in the response phase, albeit I would consider Red Cross to be across that whole continuum. I mean responding to disasters. that's what you say. That's what the media shows us. That's where they start talking about the hero narrative, and they start pinning medals and stuff like that. It's the dudes that they get in the medals. They're where the ones that they're the ones I should say that are getting the accolades and in the recovery

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it's women. Ordinarily they are the ones that are doing the job, and the man are happy to have that gender divide absolutely. They do the grant. The women do the caring and the nursery, which is a theme of Deb and Claire's research. Absolutely. The fear of failing is a is a huge point, because if you set people up to with the expectation. They should be heroic, and they should have a positive outcome, as they respond every time without exception, quite often.

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and if they do file which they will, because there's a sense that well, if we internally it is a sense they can control a lot more than they are actually trained to do so. The fear of failure is huge, and we know that the theme all the way through the research is men not reaching out to help because they? We do. We just are, you know, pretty. And it is an Australian thing as well. You know. We talk about our suicide rates, you know. There's that is also a contributing factor to that. The fact that men don't reach out for help

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and put that disaster overlay and a bunch of entitled privileged.

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What guys generally in uniform, they tend to double down on that even more so because there's there's penalties there, there's a price to pay. If you actually reach out quite often. And we're talking about the research. What the research told is in 2,009. I always look forward well to current day and look at where we've come. And there's a lot of chat and a lot of you know discourse in the emergency management sector around Ptsd. And people and men reaching out for help. You know there's any amount of, you know campaigns out there as well.

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whether they actually do that or not. It's another thing, but it's it's nice to know the organizations are on board, you know, trying to help the mental health of the responders. Once again, men being the line share of that we're in. We're talking about 95% of people on front line in response phase of a disaster being man. So it is predominantly around man.

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So they're the ones who don't reach out for help. The hyper masculine ideal during disaster as well. It's just just doesn't do anyone any good, and to to pump people up. And there's a couple of great articles written by firefighters volunteer firefighters predominantly looking at why that here and I it is quite destructive, because you are putting people in a position where, if they fail, they you know what's the next port of call. If they, if they're not prepared to reach out for help.

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A couple of quotes here

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it's really important. Once again the as the victim survivor of violence and disasters. Voices are important. So were the voices of these men. And you can see there, there's a sense that they knew what was going down, but I really felt that it was the to her on the side of shutting up and doubling down

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And sucking it up and getting on historic, that that was the the best way that they could actually get through. And we know there was some terrible outcomes from that one of our expert advisory committee, members of general and disaster. Australia is

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He's a woman named Sharon, and her story is a part of our training, and she tells the story about her husband, how he reacted to what he saw as a part of the response in the in that like Saturday fires.

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And it's really emotional. It's really telling. And it it's basically it writes our training it that 1 15 min. I think it is speech by Sharon actually gives so much information as to why as to why he did what he did. I won't go to too much detail, but it was based on that rigid stereotype

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that he just wasn't prepared to get help, no matter what, until he stumbled across some ex-service men in his words. And he thought. Oh, well, there they go through. I don't. I way through the media? I tell him it's a wall. Every time there's a fire or a flood. It's like a battle we've got to win. So he sought solace in in X Service people.

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and that's where he was able to get some help, as Sharon describes it, it was a good result, basically for her and the family ahmato tough. There's another one there, a quote by Todd

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once again, saying, it's all bullshit, basically But that was what was in the back of their mind, and certainly in the in the front of mine of a lot of the crews and a lot of the men that were in the response phase of that of those disasters as well.

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You can read through that if you if you'd like expectations, okay, to get things back to normal, to make things better, to rebuild, and I think to repair effective in Christ, the men really needed to appear as if they were effective, productive, constructive members of the community. And why haven't you down the bottom there? Why haven't you got it together. Why haven't you moved on? Why haven't you, you know, come up with a solution to the to this problem, which is, you know, loss of income loss of, you know, family members, or lots of friends and lots of community and all that. So it was just a it was just a snowball of, you know. Why haven't you

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to? And once again, credit? Because she's standing next to me to the Research Devin Clear, because they went into these communities. It took about a year or so to get in also by women's health, to look at the increase in family violence, for them, to actually drill down into the voices of the perpetrators. Quite often

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not always, but perpetrators of the violence we're predominantly demand or violence against themselves as well. Now, suicide rates. I don't know what they are or what they were, but we know they increase during disasters and in the wake of disasters as well given that men suicide more than women, you know. We know that they, you know, disproportionately in those those figures as well. So for them to actually find a safe space to actually have these conversations with these guys was huge.

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And that's what we base so much of our training and our information sharing on. I hope that was I got so many other notes. I didn't go. So you're good, anyway.

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Oh, wait a minute. Just to.

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There was a comment about strengthening am regarding gender.

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I think it was the first presentation. how can we do that? I mean Bob and I have done a virtual road show recently with the champions and change coalition, which are the heads of all the emergency services

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organizations in the country right around the country. you, and you reckon they get it by now, and to we don't know they have to take. We were privy to the 2 initiatives that were taking into those meetings where they were going, you know, increase the numbers of women in the organization, say, for instance, or diversity.

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but you know they're having a crack. But how long do you want to have a crack for? I mean, I've been in this diversity space, for.

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you know, a decade and a half, almost 2 decades at in as part of my role in as a firefighter. And it's just it's 2 steps forward and like it's a hundred. Well, I say 200 meters back

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as well as American things, isn't it? What I will say I'll close on is that yesterday, Laurie? I don't know. I'm a and a collective of women firefighters that we're both a a part of. we. They share a a an A and a Facebook post from New South Wales foreign rescue should I mention the organization?

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And it was basically a a main of the Kardashian. I don't know which one. It is the youngest one, maybe holding up a sign at a wrestling match or somewhere, but basically the sign they had superimposed on it. New South Wales fire and rescue recruitment open now.

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and they use that photo with that sign, and we will just wait. What the hell! So that's the best new cell phones far and rescue media team or recruit them to come up with. I'm sharing a name that was widely seen by one of the I don't know which one. It was announcing her pregnancy, basically. And they put their anyway. That's that's Bob. If you want to know how far they come.

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If the champions have changed. We've done anything in the last week or so, I know that'll do, thank you.

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And

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so we'd like to keep questions for Steve till later. But because that's our perfect lead in to our next presenter, Bob Bees. So Bob is talking about disrupting masculinism in public policy responses to COVID-19, unmasking the gendered dimensions of the pandemic.

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So welcome back

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the fourth one. Right? Sorry.

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Right? Thanks. Dude.

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yeah. Look so. In recent years now we've seen quite An emergence of gendered analyses, of disasters more broadly, and, of course, in the last few years as well gendered analysis of of the COVID-19 pandemic.

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What I want to kind of suggest, though, is that

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some of these

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forms of gendered analysis actually reinforced ended essentialism, and what Murphy calls

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feminize rather than feminist analysis of the so what what she means by feminized is that

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And it gives it an example of how, during the covid pandemic

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the role of women as carers and frontline worked as was probes in all sorts of ways. Oh, I just saw somebody I didn't expect to see. Sorry taken it back. that And what that reinforced it reinforced the the whole kind of essential, this notion of women as carers.

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and and in the way in which that reinforce it reinforced the burden, then, that women carry as carers, and at the same time it affirmed the role of men as decision makers around key decisions around the pandemic.

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And so

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I want to talk about what I call kind of masculineist

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responses rather than about masculinity. And by masculine.

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I'm talking about the ideology of patriarchy, the ideology that reinforces men's dominance.

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and I want to differentiate it from masculinity, because

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masculinity tends more often than not to be associated with traits of men.

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and and also connect, has been connected to men's bodies. And so what we see then the implications of that is well, what we've got to do. If we want to address issues of patriarchy or gender inequality, we've got to change masculinity.

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We see this in the our watch campaign around reducing men's violence against women. The whole focus of that campaign is around developing and fostering what are seen as healthy masculinities

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as alternative to toxic masculinity.

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Now I want to sort of suggest that the whole project of transforming masculinity

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is I a doomed project in terms of addressing patriarchy.

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And and really I want to really challenge gender and diversity Australia to really revisit your framework of gender stereotypes masculinity. I really want to throw that as a challenge to you, because I think it's problematically and in all sorts of ways.

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And it's problematically in in 3 key ways. The the first way is that

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that it reinforces the gender binary. It reinforces men's investment in a particular form of masculinity, and we know in a context of the gender binary that masculinity is always going to be valued by feminine. It's always going to be more highly praised. So changing masculinity doesn't do anything to changing masculinism, which is the ideology of dominance that reproduces patriarchy. So it's nothing to transform or change that at all.

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Secondly, in promoting these kind of healthy forms of masculinity. And when we look at the environmental movement. We talk about ecological masculinity. We can create an ecological mass masculinity. Men will be more concerned about the survival of the planet, but again reinforces this idea of an essentialist gender identity among men.

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and and it also, if you look at the traits of the healthy, positive masculinity about acknowledgment of vulnerability, empathy, compassion, all really positive human traits related sense of relatedness. They're all trades historically associated with with women.

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but we repackaged them. We repackaged them to sell them to men under a new form of masculinity, and by so doing we also encourage men to distance themselves from feminine and and from the feminine.

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And so I think we should stop talking about masculinity and start talking more about masculinism as the ideology of patriarchy and men's dominance.

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And so. What that means, then, is that we come less concerned about gender and sex categories, and more concerned about the adherence of men to a particular ideology of dominance, and what Casino found was that it was the men who identified as completely masculine. They were 3 times more likely to be diagnosed with covid, and they are more likely to engage in covid unsafe practices and an assignment that

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men who do it, masculine women, non-binary people, and trans. People can also do, masterism, although it's predominantly sys me.

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And so I think we need to get beyond these gender centralist analysis. Thank you.

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And and so

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masculinism played out in the pandemic in a whole range of ways. Firstly, in relation to habitat destruction, the origin of pandemic. We know that the pandemic was facilitated by political, economic, and cultural factors, including the governmental responses to it. And masculinism was one of those key political, economic, and cultural factors that increased the deadliness of the pandemic globally.

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We know that there is evidence of a connection between the COVID-19 environmental degradation, because we saw in terms of the deforestation, the destruction of animal habitats being linked to the rise of infectious diseases, and that that form of of environmental degradation is highly gendered, that men are more likely to commit crimes against nature than when, particularly men who adhere to masculinous ideologies.

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dagger talks about environmental degradation resulting from what she calls Petro masculinity almost a kind of an authoritarian

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desire, and a and a fear of of the loss of fossil fuels. And Kenyan also talks about the anthropocentric responses to the natural environment that that reinforce the kind of destruction of the environment.

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We also saw masculinization take form in terms of political leadership. With a very few exceptions, men were the most dominant in developing government responses to the pandemic and and the the whole kind of notion of masculinous leadership about rationality, detachment.

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strength. All of this kind of inform the particular forms of masculine leadership. Masculinous language was used to frame the virus in military metaphors of war, enemy combat in the front line in Australia, the the the key leaders of in terms of addressing the pandemic were called commanders

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when we had the emergence of the key vaccination strategy, it was Arm yourself against the virus. So these military metaphors were were kind of dominant in terms of how we thought about the virus.

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In some cases there was also a masculine denial of science by some leaders where to somehow the legitimacy of the science was question. If you listen to the science, you're being feminine, you know that that that you you were positioning yourself as accommodating

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to to to authority.

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We also saw a masculine prioritizing of individual freedom in the economy over community health and well-being, and so

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masculine, was playing out in a whole range of bones. We also saw the connections with the rise of Populism and Nationalism during the pandemic

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that a pandemic, I think, reinforced Nationalist responses, and we saw that in terms of blaming other countries from the source of the pandemic.

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and we saw it in terms of getting ahead of the queue in terms of being able to get access to vaccines and it, and fueled the far right, who weaponized the pandemic in terms of increasing backlash against Against the kind of public health interventions

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it was the far right men who expressed them. I stride in opposition to mask, wearing to lock down social distancing, expressing disdain for the elderly and the immune deficient, and those that were most vulnerable during the pendant.

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We also saw this play out in terms of issues of risk. We know that men were more reluctant to wear masks, engage less in hand, washing, less likely to adhere to social distancing.

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there are parallels between men's refusal to wear masks, and ment means reluctance to our condoms. We saw those same sort of connections.

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Sharing a selflessness, were feminized and framed as unmasculine, and the concept of freedom was deployed against public health measures premised upon this isolated individual, whose rights would reign supreme with no obligation to others. So

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there was this refusal to acknowledge. I mean, it's Covid taught us anything. It was about our interconnectedness to each other, to non-human animals and to the planet and And this notion of this masculine ideology promoted this individualism, this this sense of separateness, that that, and the individualism that continues to to reign supreme.

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And so I want to suggest that

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what we needed to have done

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was to to really

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in bed a feminist ethics of care. And so, as an alternative to the kind of positive, healthy masculinities, I want to suggest that men as well as we, need to embrace a feminist ethic of care

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which really talks about how on to logical vulnerability. I mean, if if we, if we, if those of us who identify as men acknowledged down to logical vulnerability. We would be so scared shit scared about what is happening to the planet. If ever there was a motivation to actually address issues of global heating. It's it has to come out of our acknowledging our vulnerability and the emotions and feelings associated with that.

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but what we saw was that the concept of care was relegated to domestic severe, the role of direct service health workers, and it reinforced the view that care was women's work. We need to encourage men to embrace a feminist ethic of care as part of the project of creating a more sane and and sustainable world. And I think that needs to inform government public policy responses

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and to underpin the the role of government. We need to encourage what I call an ontological vulnerability, where we acknowledge our interconnectedness to each other and to non-human, not human animals. And the planet, if we're going to be able to address the major prices like something.

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Thanks. So

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thank you. Thank you, Bob, for that challenge. we will have time, I think, for one question, but I do want to address the challenge that's been thrown up so publicly. I I think Bob and I are friends going back a very long time, and Bob some informed our work very deeply.

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I think. Our approach, and particularly my approach to gender is that it's a social construction, and if only we could get a baby and just let it be who it is, I think we would be all right. The problem is the social construction and all the rules around that

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even in our work. I think that comes through because we talk about gendered expectations of men to be protectors, providers, women to sacrifice their own futures, their autonomy, their ability to earn money, even to the point of enduring family violence for the good of the man, the family society. And we talk about that neglect of Lgbtqa plus people in disaster. Planning.

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The thing about our language is we need to be pragmatic if we can engage the emergency sector, and I know it's a double-edged sword, but we've been funded. We've had fully is funding from the Commonwealth Government to extend our training and resources across the country. So the influence is there now, and

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when we look at the Australian Government's midterm sorry new term review of this and I framework ours is the only work that's referenced in there in Australia, on these shores. So I think we would not have achieved that if not using the language that's common.

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So any questions. I'm not giving you a chance to respond. I'm Celia Roberts from an you and have worked.

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has a amnest theorist and gender study series for

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30 something years. So I just wondered about the word sexism, which seems to me possibly a less confusing word and a word that we don't hear so much anymore. I mean masculine. I get what you're trying to say about masculine masculinism. One. It's a word that people haven't heard before, and 2, it's very closely connected to masculinity. So it does sound like

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this is about men not doing the right thing or not being what we want them to be. And I think sexism.

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 actually gets to the point a bit more clearly, and it does indicate the ways in which women are also bound up in a relational way. I mean, gender isn't. There's not. They're not separate. They're relational. And they what they operate in relation to each other. So the problem is sexism.

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But

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I don't think I can agree with you, because I think that sexism lends to itself far too much. We we see the

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the Mint Rights movement kind of

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use the language of sexism, too, I mean sexism is often seen as as a form of kind of interpersonal prejudice rather than systemic dominance. If we want to find an alternative words of masculinity. Let's talk about misogyny.

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and that now that's a word we hear less than sexism. I think misogyny deeply embedded. Misogyny is is what drives that means far. So I I yes, it's this word that's good people I got. I mean, we don't talk about patriarchy anymore, either, you know, but I want to bring the language of masculinity and patriarchy back into the the way in which we talk about this. I don't think sexism is going to get us very far.

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anyway, we'll have to set up for coffee all that. Do we have another question of both.

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Hi, thank you for your talk. I was just curious about intersecting perspectives, and some of the

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what we might hear from black scholars or from indigenous scholars. Some of the points you need at the end, reminding me a lot of what I hear from indigenous scholars and about indigenous ways of knowing I'm not an expert there, but I'm just wondering if you could comment on

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not just the dominance of masculinity and patriarchy, but the dominance of colonialism and any other. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that it's it's it's regrettable. I think intersectionality is also been near liberalizing, co-opted in terms of simply different identities, whereas really it's the intersectionality of patriarchy, colonialism, white supremacy, capitalism. That's the kind of intersectionality we need to

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to be talking about. And yes, and if there'd be more space in time, I would have talked about those kinds of intersections. But it's structural intersectionality that's important, not the intersectionality of identities.

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This one. Thank you. Thanks so much, Bob. Can everyone thank? Well.

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thank you. Thank you.

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So now our final speaker, I'd like to introduce Aaria Mccainless from the University of Cambridge in the Uk. Speaking about later is a Cis hetero-patriarchal time, zone progress and resistance in the inclusion of people with diverse. So jesque in the humanitarian response.

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Yeah.

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thank you very much. I'll get into the title in a minute. so I'm gonna get started. jumping right in with a quote, can you hear me? Okay, it's the my working. Okay, and this is a quote from a white woman who works for an organization that funds humanitarian programs. and she said. I think conversations around class and rice and sex and ethnicity and sexual orientation and religion, and so forth.

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are really important. But I think within the context that we work in those probably are going to come a second tier from my perspective. It will be easier to start the conversation, or of gender and age, and then maybe add on other things as they make sense in particular contexts.

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And I wanted to start with this group. But I think it is a really good job of making my whole point explicitly positioning sexuality and several other sources of marginalisation as a secondary concerns within the humanitarian response.

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and it also points quite generically to a future where these concerns may be addressed. So what the study I'm presenting today identifies 5 main narratives that are deployed by humanitarian actors, and and in these narratives all implicitly or explicitly relegate efforts towards meaningful Lgbtqi class inclusion to the future Tense

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and I summarized this move by borrowing Cynthia Enlow's statement that later is a patriarchal time zone, and adding Sis heter to it and low coin the phrase in reference to post-conflict reconstruction, when women are made to wait for their turn while men are prioritised across economic and social reintegration programs. But as women wait. gender inequality becomes further entrenched and their social and economic position recedes.

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And so what I'm arguing is that humanitarian practitioners and the guidance documents that I analyze here are building a case for Lgbtqi, plus inclusion to be delayed until later, and in doing so they are contributing actively to the increased variability of LGBT people affected by crisis.

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So I'll go quite quickly here and but Just to say that. it's undeniable that there is an increased attention to LGBT people in emergencies. There are a number of training resources, statements, reports, and guidance being produced. You have a few here on the slide, but as we've heard from Lamb and from Undeti's presentation in the morning session. As well, we know that actually,

383
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people tend to be left out of formal humanitarian responses. and they end up relying especially on informal network of solidarity within the queer community. And I think I did. This example was a really good of them. But here there are some other studies that make the same point in different contexts.

384
01:26:20.510 --> 01:26:44.329
just a very quick notion methods. This is, was part of a broader study on The use of the concept of intersectionality in humanitarian discourse on gender based violence. I conducted 21 in qualitative interviews in 2,019 with participants that worked across the humanitarian protection sector. So from donors UN agencies.

385
01:26:44.330 --> 01:27:11.759
international and national, Ngos in a variety of contexts. primarily working in sort of international humanitarian settings. and across Africa, the Middle East and Asia in particular and just on language. I use a short of short hands, including queer Lgbtq Soji. I know these are contested and debated terms, and if we want to discuss that in the Q. And a. I'm very happy, too.

386
01:27:12.150 --> 01:27:25.460
So this is just a quick overview of the 5 interconnected but distinct narratives that either identified in the data. And there's nothing we can do low in culture. We need training. First, we need data. First.

387
01:27:25.730 --> 01:27:30.669
cisgender women are first and then partners first, and I'll now take them in turn.

388
01:27:30.940 --> 01:27:40.530
So when I first started raising the issue of protection for Lgbtqi, staff and program participants with my humanitarian colleagues

389
01:27:40.930 --> 01:27:44.459
in the early 2,010 the most common response was

390
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a shrugging of shoulders and a dismissive. It's illegal here, and as we can see from this the first court on the slide. This is still a very popular answer. one of the entrances, of course, is the laws in the country. There are some places where you can't even talk about Lgbti, because the country has criminalized it.

391
01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:20.160
But and discussions about criminalization often go hand in hand with references to culture and attitudes, and we see that in the second quote that says, in certain parts of the world, and conservative cultures talking about homosexuality might just shut down the conversation completely.

392
01:28:20.630 --> 01:28:50.380
and both of these quotes highlight the impossibility of even just talking about the diverse genders and sexualities. and but I argue that such blanket statements are actually often made based on a racist assumptions about religious and cultural beliefs, and we'll get more into that in a minute, and be a fairly superficial understandings of what are the specific legal provisions of different countries with very few countries?

393
01:28:50.830 --> 01:29:02.020
until recently, that is changing for the worst, unfortunately actually criminalizing support, providing services or support to LGBT people, for example.

394
01:29:02.060 --> 01:29:23.800
But the reputation or risk of being prevented from providing sorry the fear of reputation or risk, or the fear of being prevented from providing services to the broader population, can lead organization to, and I quote from Emily Dwyer. Here a per pervasive state of mind that holds staff back from engaging even when conditions are sufficiently conducive.

395
01:29:24.410 --> 01:29:45.480
So by referring to law in culture, humanitarian actors present their discriminatory practices as the product of external circumstances. If and when the reasoning goes, how States change their legislation and their culture, then we will as well intention humanitarians be able to assist Lgbtqi people.

396
01:29:46.940 --> 01:30:02.269
The second narrative, was one of the most frequently cited reasons for not including LGBT people in programming, and which was linked to the fear of doing harm due to limited skills and knowledge. And we see that in this first quote.

397
01:30:02.330 --> 01:30:09.489
I think it was more of looking at. Let us not do any harm by doing things that we have no knowledge of what the hell we're doing.

398
01:30:10.030 --> 01:30:22.380
And given the global humanitarian system tendency to claim that they have the expertise to respond to respond to disaster worldwide. I feel like such admissions of ignorance sometimes are quite refreshing.

399
01:30:22.430 --> 01:30:43.380
However, after a while constant reminders that humanitarian actors are unprepared to respond to the needs of algebra. Lgbtqi people start to become a bit disingenuous. By the time I conducted these interviews there was guidance and training materials out there on how to work with LGBT people in crisis too limited and not very good.

400
01:30:43.380 --> 01:30:53.770
and importantly, the statements, as I mentioned earlier about the inability of the humanitarian sector to actually understand

401
01:30:53.770 --> 01:31:20.400
and respond to Lgbtq I. Plus issues rest on racist assumptions about humanitarian workers from the global south. So we see this in this extract from the summary of the 2,021 global roundtable on protection and solutions for LGBT, IQ. People in force displacements. They like a short title organized by Unscr and the independent expert for Soji.

402
01:31:20.430 --> 01:31:34.770
when they say many traditional Csos and Host government service providers lack the expertise to provide Lgbti inclusive sensitive services and their staff might display homophobic, biphobic, etc. attitudes. So

403
01:31:34.930 --> 01:31:38.870
international humanitarian actors are very much not mentioned here.

404
01:31:39.000 --> 01:32:05.100
but in the interviews I conducted, and in contrast with the stereotypical depictions that we find across the sector. the women are interviewed who work for national Ngos in the global South. we're the only ones who mentioned examples of collaboration with Lgbtqi, plus light organizations in their work, and the only ones they spoke about how they addressed homophobic attitudes within your team.

405
01:32:05.140 --> 01:32:12.710
Women from the global North tended instead to be the only ones that had expressed transphobic attitudes, as we will see in a minute.

406
01:32:12.810 --> 01:32:26.579
So again by over-emphasizing and the difficulty of providing services to LGBT people and the lack of expertise, these narratives create an incessant demand for training as a prerequisite for any support.

407
01:32:26.580 --> 01:32:48.829
or even to address existing discrimination within the sector. but also when guidelines and trainings are taken as evidence that algebra inclusion has been achieved. Then, actually delivering services to Lgbtqi people can be postponed indefinitely until the mythical moment when everyone in the humanitarian system feels ready.

408
01:32:48.950 --> 01:33:17.319
I'll skip this one for a time reason, but also because I I'll go very quickly. Rather. I think most social movements around the world are familiar with this request for data specifically quantitative data before anything can be done, and the unish report I mentioned earlier roundtable recommended to establish an evidence base in order I to verify statistical existence of Lgbtq. People displaced an a stateless person.

409
01:33:17.770 --> 01:33:30.500
once again, humanitarian practitioners are shifting the responsibility of creating the conditions for the inclusion of LGBT people on someone else. I'd assume that as the researchers at another time

410
01:33:31.560 --> 01:33:32.790
and

411
01:33:33.040 --> 01:33:51.249
a big theme that came up, and then to be specific because I was talking about with gender based violence and protection practitioners was their concern that Lgbti, q plus inclusion, would divert financial human and time resources from implicitly says, gender and heterosexual women and girls.

412
01:33:51.400 --> 01:34:06.800
And so, for instance, participants. 12 stated. So the specific discrimination based on woman being a female as a sex being biologically a female, will be just watch her down will be overshadowed by all the oppressions that are politically correct to be announced.

413
01:34:07.560 --> 01:34:33.130
I mean obviously this. In this court there is language that clearly echoes transphobic arguments which presents cisgender women as victims of campaigns of erasers, and but often in parallel with these kinds of arguments that by no means all, and there was a strong fear of having to do more with less, and given the chronic under funding of Gbd programming and humanitarian responses, and so participant. 5.

414
01:34:33.670 --> 01:34:52.680
Explain some of her colleagues resistance to both Lgbtq I. And disability inclusion, saying, it's mostly from this perspective. But we have little resources, and we're not sure how do we do it? Because for you to really cater for these other groups, it means there is some things that you need to do extra as we were saying earlier today.

415
01:34:53.680 --> 01:35:05.329
and so sorry. this real scarcity of resources creates A dynamic of victim hunch competition within the humanitarian sector. and

416
01:35:05.330 --> 01:35:25.050
described victim competition described by men. As I quote internal competitiveness among deprived groups for a larger share in the small part reserve for them, and the practitioners I interviewed were quite explicit that they intended to prioritize cisgender women and girls over other marginalized groups in their discourse.

417
01:35:26.560 --> 01:35:40.559
as with all the narratives that I've described so far, the women first narrative promises that once the protection of women and girls insecure, then issues of sexual and gender diversity will be next on the list.

418
01:35:40.910 --> 01:35:49.769
However, I feel this promise is a little fantastical. Given that this low pace of progress towards gender equality, as we've also been hearing all day today

419
01:35:50.680 --> 01:36:15.670
the last narrative I want to discuss, and with less present during interviews, but is basically obicit in guidance and adversely, documents. and this is the starts from their recommendation that to address Lgbtqi populations and respond to their needs. And in con context affected by emergencies, we need to partner with Lgbtq or

420
01:36:15.670 --> 01:36:26.050
by organizations. and this is undoubtedly the right approach. I support that 100. But I think we must be vigilant that this doesn't become just the last

421
01:36:26.050 --> 01:36:53.760
at the latest delay in tactic and the presence of visible LGBT. Local actors cannot be determined. The determining factors in deciding whether to support queer people, as was the case in This is participants. Experience who said, I think the only time I've ever thought about LGBT was Iraq, and that was because I knew there was a service I can actually refer to in Bangladesh. I didn't.

422
01:36:54.710 --> 01:37:15.869
And I feel that the humanitarian system cannot discharge its responsibilities to remedy the historical exclusion of LGBT people from humanitarian programming onto marginalized groups themselves. We need to recognize that connecting with Lgbtqi plus lead organizations might be challenging or dangerous in early phases of emergencies.

423
01:37:15.870 --> 01:37:32.020
and that the establishment of formal partnership and the inevitable process of capacity building, if only to meet the donor's bureaucratic requirements, cannot further delay the access of LGBT people affected by disaster to essential and life-saving humanitarian assistance.

424
01:37:32.910 --> 01:37:44.590
So, in conclusion, I do think you know, there are legitimate concerns around doing no harm and doing, you know, a good job, and there you know most of the narratives that I've presented.

425
01:37:44.620 --> 01:38:04.799
However, I feel that the narratives at what what these narratives do is obfuscate. That humanitarian business, as usual, is harming Lgbti communities. And they it's exacerbating their vulnerability to exploitation as we've heard today as well as signaling their relevance to the broader community.

426
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So to return to Cynthia and When LGBT people are placed alongside other several other marginalized group in the later phase of a humanitarian response, their place in a phase that by definition doesn't really exist in humanitarian response, the humanitarian system operates in the now of the emergency. The urgent response

427
01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:37.539
in the humanitarian system later never really actually comes. And when it does, it's someone else's job normally.

428
01:38:37.580 --> 01:38:46.300
And so I argued that later is a Cisco patriarchal time zone where Lgbtqi people can wait indefinitely for their turn.

429
01:38:46.450 --> 01:39:03.070
and I want to close with the one for words or depressing words of Participant 9, who said, if I had a quid for everyone who said, Oh, it's too soon for us to start talking about queer women, it's too soon as a queer woman, when someone says that I feel it so when it's the right time.

430
01:39:03.520 --> 01:39:05.320
Hopefully, the answer is, now.

431
01:39:08.660 --> 01:39:16.139
thanks, Aaria, so do we have a question for Aaria. And yes, do you want to come to the microphone?

432
01:39:18.719 --> 01:39:28.069
Thank you for a wonderful presentation. My name is Andrew, or undoing. I'm from the Philippines University of the Philippines and University of Hong Kong.

433
01:39:28.240 --> 01:39:54.540
Your presentation reminded me of a very intense debate in queer studies. On the one hand, you have Lee Edelman, who wants us to give up the future because it's oppressive. And, on the other hand, you have Jose Step, and when you also said, Well, we're we of Caller, are just starting to dream. And you want us to give up the future. So that title itself actually reminded me of that domain. So my question is.

434
01:39:54.540 --> 01:39:58.879
and and usually that debate is very theoretical, because it's queer studies.

435
01:39:58.879 --> 01:40:16.489
sorry sorry to my 4 mothers and fathers. But this is a very empirical way of putting it. And so the question is, theoretically, then, giving this data, what do you say about the futures or futures with an S,

436
01:40:17.459 --> 01:40:24.760
I, just a small question. yeah.

437
01:40:24.790 --> 01:40:36.840
I think that's a good question. Yeah, sorry. I'm going to have to go and think about this, and thank you very much for the question. Also the enthusiastic nodding during the presentation. I really appreciate that as a presenter

438
01:40:38.090 --> 01:40:59.829
So based on this data. I feel like the future is a trap. Honestly, the the future is a trap. that queer people are constantly oriented towards. It's where we are told things will be better, but especially, you know, as Leon was.

439
01:41:00.639 --> 01:41:03.390
you know, describing before, I think.

440
01:41:03.850 --> 01:41:21.730
in the last couple of years, it's really become very evident how the future is not going to be better, and as waiting in the sidelines for the better future. That program social progress is going to bring to us isn't going to

441
01:41:22.150 --> 01:41:43.019
do it, and it's it. You know the future is not going to be better. if we just wait for others to include us. I think that's what I would say. So I would say, my answer to that question is, yeah, the future is a trap, and I think we need to act in the present. And we need to. I I'm not

442
01:41:43.530 --> 01:41:54.510
that interested in focusing all of my attention to the future, because I think that's just how we are kept out of

443
01:41:55.400 --> 01:41:56.889
the present.

444
01:41:59.430 --> 01:42:05.389
Thank you. I think we've got 4 min for questions by anyone on the panel.

445
01:42:12.550 --> 01:42:14.110
Sorry. So

446
01:42:16.620 --> 01:42:22.219
I wonder if there's a relationship between the last 2 papers and the

447
01:42:22.730 --> 01:42:29.710
thinking about what it means to try and argue for like

448
01:42:30.530 --> 01:42:35.379
for a space based on an identity based category

449
01:42:35.950 --> 01:42:43.720
and like, which isn't to say that I want to get rid of the categories. I don't at all, but I think that both of the papers have in common it like a sense of like.

450
01:42:44.080 --> 01:42:51.809
But like, like, I think you're trying to like come up with another category, which is, you know, masculin, as a way of moving us away from

451
01:42:51.880 --> 01:42:53.710
an attachment to

452
01:42:53.920 --> 01:43:07.549
particular ideas about the gender binary. And this is also a way of like, I think, you know, trying to highlight Lgbtq issues which I am totally for. But I think that in some ways both of those strategies.

453
01:43:08.950 --> 01:43:21.050
but like like, if we talk about like, I mean, I suppose I'm wondering like what you think about if we talk about particular sorts of bodies and particular sorts of people, and relationality like, is that

454
01:43:21.770 --> 01:43:29.760
another way of putting things off? Or is that another way of like making it more capacious in terms of care.

455
01:43:30.010 --> 01:43:39.140
like, I'm thinking, like, who is a queer person in a refugee camp. I think that there's lots of queer people in refugee camp. And they're not just Lgbtq people.

456
01:43:39.270 --> 01:43:47.269
So what does it mean like is that as a strategy that we can use to try and create more space that

457
01:43:48.430 --> 01:43:55.760
can, I suppose, imagine, like who we are imagining. When we want to be addressing these groups.

458
01:43:59.330 --> 01:44:02.100
we can work on it very, too. I go ahead?

459
01:44:05.770 --> 01:44:14.389
I think it was Sp. Back who talked about strategic essentialism as a way of partly addressing what you're you're talking about.

460
01:44:14.810 --> 01:44:29.039
which is to acknowledge that these categories are deeply problematical in terms of some kind of alternative future. But at strategic points in time, at particular historical moments

461
01:44:29.140 --> 01:44:30.360
we've got a

462
01:44:30.900 --> 01:44:38.659
rely or draw upon these categories to defend particular rights. But we have to acknowledge the limitations of them.

463
01:44:38.700 --> 01:44:41.480
and I think the problem has been, though that.

464
01:44:42.830 --> 01:45:05.990
And I think Sp back herself now is the the critical of strategic essentialism, too, because too many people will say, Well, well, strategically, we have to use these categories like you were saying strategically, right now, at this historical moment, we have to do this right. And and we lose sight of what it is we're we're working towards. And

465
01:45:06.160 --> 01:45:27.890
I I think we have to do both at the same time. I think we we have to at times acknowledge that we, we're going to be forced into using certain language, certain identity categories. But we have to keep on talking about the limitations of them and the problems with them and the dangers of them. If we if we don't, we're not going to go anywhere.

466
01:45:27.970 --> 01:45:56.480
So I mean, my personal view is, we have to do away with these categories. We have to move beyond these categories completely. And I'm working on a project at the moment, encouraging men to be undercome and become men, because I think that we have to disengage and disentangle ourselves from these categories. So while at the same time, strategically, at particular moments, I'll use them to engage with men. But we have to keep on talking about the limitations and dangers.

467
01:46:01.120 --> 01:46:07.159
I mean, I honestly just thank you, because I think you know, that's that's a constant reminder that we need to

468
01:46:07.760 --> 01:46:15.460
give ourselves, I think, from my perspective, there are 2 things. One is the fact that.

469
01:46:17.460 --> 01:46:27.640
for example, my choice of using Lgbtqi, which changed from my abstract where I was using so ji as it's just that I just been more conscious of using the

470
01:46:27.780 --> 01:46:32.650
identity categories that people use themselves. and

471
01:46:33.010 --> 01:46:49.709
a lot of the people that are speaking about. you know their exclusion and the violence that they're experiencing in humanitarian context, like the Kakuma refugee camp, which is where most of the photos are taken from.

472
01:46:49.770 --> 01:47:12.680
They use Lgbtqi and they use an identity base. You know, they're they're making an identity base claim. and I do absolutely a hundred. You know, I think it's problematic. I think it's you know it comes from a Western perspective, and it's too narrow, and all of those things. And but I also think if they don't do that, the humanitarian system, which is, you know, a

473
01:47:12.910 --> 01:47:36.999
extremely categorical space that boxes people in and every possible way. they're really gonna struggle to to, you know, like we had the example earlier this morning about, you know, like I already have this tick. You know this list of ticks that I have to take.

474
01:47:37.000 --> 01:48:05.650
and you know, if something is not on the tick box list, then I'm not gonna do it. And I think I a hundred percent agree. And I think you know it's very important, and that you know, for those of us who have this space because we're in academia, or we in, you know, think tanks and things like that to do some of that more expensive thinking to do that more critical thinking to think about. You know, the problem is not Lgbtq people. Of course the problem is homophobia and transphobia in the humanitarian system.

475
01:48:05.650 --> 01:48:10.070
And how do we fight against those systems of oppression as much as we fight against

476
01:48:10.370 --> 01:48:18.640
masculinism and other things like you know. And those are the problems that we need to address

477
01:48:18.900 --> 01:48:29.209
the people that are in a refugee camp right now in Kakuma. They just want to have be resettled because they are guy or trance. So I think it's that, too.

478
01:48:31.220 --> 01:48:34.879
I just want to raise a very quick point

479
01:48:34.930 --> 01:48:41.679
about deconstructing gender systems. I come from a multi-gender culture.

480
01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:43.160
and

481
01:48:43.530 --> 01:48:52.180
we have 4 genders, and the genders are. There's fluidity there. So think of a spectrum. We think of it as a sort of a spiderweb or a circle.

482
01:48:52.430 --> 01:48:56.759
and people who occupy this space between the binaries

483
01:48:56.780 --> 01:48:59.830
are given elevated status.

484
01:48:59.910 --> 01:49:06.900
They have a place in our society that is unique because they see through many lenses.

485
01:49:07.030 --> 01:49:11.779
And if we deconstruct those systems that would destroy our culture.

486
01:49:11.980 --> 01:49:20.920
So I just want us to think very carefully when we talk about deconstructing masculine versus feminine.

487
01:49:21.200 --> 01:49:28.139
that there are other non-western ways of thinking about status. And like, I said, in my culture.

488
01:49:28.870 --> 01:49:38.120
people who occupy these other gender categories are elevated to a special status in our community. So I just wanted to throw that out there.

489
01:49:41.890 --> 01:49:59.259
Hey? Thanks very much. I think that was a perfect point to make to end. The other point. That, I think is relevant is Maureen Forums here, and Lauren is a professor of the Gender and Disaster Center at the University of College of London.

490
01:49:59.260 --> 01:50:19.509
You would remember, in 2,015 we were at this conference in Japan. Gender was given the 7 30 am. Slot, and I I think there are 8 people there, including us. So I think we're coming along the way with so much interest in this. So thank you all.