WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:01.000 Yeah, okay, great. This will go away 1 s and then get started as soon as it comes back, okay? 2 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:10.000 . Okay, welcome to everyone at this session of RC. 46. I want to read the session of RC. 46. 3 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.000 I want to read the acknowledgement of RC. 46. I want to read the acknowledgement of country. 4 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:17.000 On behalf of everyone gathered, I pay respect to the acknowledgment of country. On behalf of everyone gathered, I pay respect to the spirit of country here in Rome where we are meeting. 5 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.000 I pay respect to the spirit of country here in normal, I pay respect to the spirit of country here in Naomi, where we are meeting. 6 00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:26.000 I acknowledge the past and present Culin Nation, here in Norm where we are meeting. I acknowledge the past and present Culin Nation, Burundii Wu, I acknowledge the past and present Culin Nation, BURON DERI, WOOD, the past and present Culin Nation, BURRAN, DERRY, 7 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:33.000 WOO, as the sovereign people here, the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the knowledge holders who maintain and promote the Romans who maintain and promote the wrong Aboriginal law, customs and custodians. 8 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:44.000 Aboriginal law, customs and custodianship responsibilities for country and the people that country continues to sustain generation of responsibilities for country and the people that country continues to sustain generation of degeneration into the future for all of us and the people that country continues to sustain generation of degeneration into the future for all of us. 9 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:49.000 I recognise the important contribution that First Nations thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking. 10 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:58.000 We thank all First Nations delegates in the room today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline. Okay, thank you. 11 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:14.000 Yeah, and welcome everyone. Hopefully we will have some other people. Joining us. Okay, now how do I get out of here? 12 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:28.000 Hi. I'm supposed to be a technician to help us. They left. And so they left too. 13 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:29.000 Okay. 14 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:35.000 Ok, how do I get out of this picture? How do I get out of this picture up to. 15 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:38.000 This press is skateina. 16 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.000 Yeah. Okay, that's nice. Okay. 17 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:47.000 You did your presentation already? Oh are you? Okay. Okay. 18 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:57.000 Right, great. The, yeah. 19 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:04.000 Anyway, isn't the zoom? I've got to open. Okay, I must open your presentation. 20 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:09.000 Okay. 21 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:21.000 Okay, so we can go I can present maybe the first. Presenter with the Michael Miranda. 22 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:22.000 And, he's from the Western, Michigan University. And it will be, so also company by, from the National Health, Institute in L United States. 23 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:35.000 And how do I know that they've answered 4? We'll click. Okay, There is the Yeah. 24 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:45.000 Should consultant now. So. Well, we're ready to you to hear from your presentation. 25 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.000 If you want. 26 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:53.000 Okay, just, okay. Hi, I'm Michael Miranda. Just to clarify, I was with Western Michigan Evaluation Center. 27 00:02:53.000 --> 00:03:05.000 I still talked with them but the project I was on has ended and hopefully I'll be working with them again. 28 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:06.000 Oh yeah. Okay. 29 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:16.000 Right now I'm in private practice and Aggie Deanna is retired from. NIH, National Institutes of Health of the United States. 30 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:29.000 Representation so we have time you know Can have at least 15 to 20 min to presentation and some questions and complementary after that for about half an hour each. 31 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:36.000 Or even more if, if it's possible. But, I'll let you go and present yourself. 32 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.000 With that, we have a thing, some slice to, present us. 33 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:43.000 So it's okay. 34 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:47.000 Okay. 35 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:56.000 It's not advancing. This button here. Very some other button. 36 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:57.000 Okay. This 10, that 10, that one. 37 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:15.000 Okay, I can't see with the Michael, Jok, can you see the presentation? Yeah, it's up there. 38 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:16.000 Yeah, okay. 39 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:20.000 Yeah. Oh yes, the first slide here. Using your freedom to underline local governments in the United States. 40 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:22.000 Yeah, I see it. 41 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:29.000 So you just move this feeling. Yeah, we're trying to figure out how to do that. It's not doing it. 42 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.000 Or to change the testing maybe. 43 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:36.000 We're pushing the Okay, let me quickly go and ask her. That's what we're doing. 44 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:48.000 We're doing the error. Yes, if we can see there. You know what? Why? 45 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:49.000 So is going well. 46 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:55.000 Because the number lock is on. That's why. 47 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:00.000 Okay, I'll find someone. 48 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.000 So it looks like a bit like magical thinking. 49 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:15.000 They I consider how And singing. 50 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:24.000 There's in preparing just for the other people who are I know there are some French speaking people in the in the group. 51 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:37.000 Can you, you know, this, application we have on your screen about subtitles so that we can follow maybe Some translation and some titles. 52 00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:45.000 Once clicking on that application and. In your screen. 53 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:52.000 At the bottom of the Zoom, system. 54 00:05:52.000 --> 00:06:22.000 In fact, So. 55 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:32.000 You going to go? Michael? 56 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:33.000 Oh, wow. 57 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.000 I'm ready to go, but we can't seem to move the slides. So, oh, I just moved him. 58 00:06:35.000 --> 00:06:36.000 Okay, hold on. Okay. 59 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:41.000 Hey. And free or die. 60 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:52.000 I know if I miss something, hold on. I hit a different button. The arrows don't seem 61 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.000 Wow. 62 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:57.000 Some arrows or something like that, yeah. 63 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:05.000 With this one, see the arrows are set up differently. This is Yes, okay. 64 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:07.000 Oh yes, it's moving down. 65 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:14.000 No, it doesn't. Okay. It doesn't advance and okay, well. 66 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:20.000 Oh, it does it like that. Yeah, no, put the goose away. On the screen. 67 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:26.000 Just anywhere on the screen. Okay, and then it's your work. 68 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:36.000 It's rolling. You see. I hit the plus button here and went. Then that's one. 69 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:44.000 But we can, okay, do you just want to? Yeah, I think I'll talk through this slide and. 70 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:45.000 He is. That's a report. 71 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:53.000 This is an actual picture of a license plate from the state of New Hampshire. That's actually what they put on, live free or die. 72 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:06.000 Basically, The word freedom and liberty and and rights are basically sacred words in America and we have a fetish over freedom. 73 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:13.000 Everything is argued over freedom. So. Okay, now I go. Oh. 74 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:18.000 Now it's making it larger. Okay, next one. First we're going to cover in the paradox of freedom. 75 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:30.000 Our analytic framework and relative sociological concepts. Setting the stage background information on the US in kovat 19 pandemic in the U. 76 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:34.000 We're going to talk about the vocabulary motors, from sea right mills, and freedom is a key or master motive in the United States. 77 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:46.000 And how we got that way and some recommendations since this is clinical. Sociology about What to do about this? 78 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:50.000 And hopefully I can move it. 79 00:08:50.000 --> 00:09:10.000 Okay. The basic, the inspiration for this presentation came from a book by Sydney Hook who talked about the paradox of freedom he got it from Jeremy Beth him It's basically you can't have freedom for an action while taking away the freedom to stop the action. 80 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:23.000 And Carl Popper notes that the so called paradox of freedom is the argument that freedom in the sense of absence of any constraining control must lead to very great restraint since it makes the bully free to enslave the meek. 81 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:30.000 And the idea in a slightly different form and with very different tendencies is clearly expressed in Plato. There are no or at least very few absolute rights. 82 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:44.000 Are in conflict my right to breathe clean air in a restaurant is contingent and borrowing you from smoking in a restaurant. 83 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:56.000 And, We had to, this slide covers our analytical perspective. And one is that social phenomena are the result of many factors. 84 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:09.000 And that contextual factors matter. Specific characteristics of the US society and COVID-19 pandemic in the US are relevant for looking at the reaction to the pandemic. 85 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:21.000 Social media and broadcast media ease of spreading false information and the echo chamber effect. And also Dennis Rong's concept of over socialized concepts of man. 86 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:34.000 Basically, Dennis wrong with my dissertation advisor. He wrote the seminal article the over socialized concept of man and then speaking to him was to introduce Freud into sociology. 87 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:44.000 And basically it introduces that concept and people are irrational. People often hold conflicting beliefs and they don't always act in rational way. 88 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:55.000 And conflict theory is also relevant. Different groups, concepts and ideologies compete. And see right mills discusses the vocabulary motives. 89 00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:09.000 And we also take from Howard Baker moral entrepreneurs. Because often leadership is needed to push ideas. Okay, studying the stage, some background about the US. 90 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:16.000 It's a federal system in which most of the public health activities take place at the state and local level. 91 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:25.000 There are state and local health departments. The federal government provides guidance, money, and resources. Americans have very little contact directly with the federal government. 92 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:35.000 It is remote. State legislatures may not be very sophisticated. New Hampshire, for example, has a citizen legislature which means no pay. 93 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:46.000 Legislatures may not meet every year. Even a large state like Texas meets every other year. And I was sort of surprised by this, but in a book I'm working on. 94 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:56.000 I've been dealing with a consultant to I forget which state I think is in Nevada. No, New Mexico. 95 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:11.000 And it was explained to me about how poor state legislatures are. And the some, we grew up in New York State, they have a very sophisticated, well paid legislature. 96 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:17.000 And I just assume that's the way it was throughout the US, but many legislatures are very unsophisticated. 97 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:32.000 And don't really have resources. Okay. Even state governments are remote, citizens lack a personal connection to government. 98 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:33.000 There is a small right wing fringe that's extremely distrustful of the federal government. 99 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:49.000 And this has given an example about where Americans are in terms of their scientific knowledge. Only 54% of Americans believe in evolution. 100 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:58.000 In 2,019 and only 34% of conservative Republicans So there's sort of a skepticism towards science. 101 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:04.000 Okay. Setting the stage, the specific characteristics of kovat. 19 pandemic in the US. 102 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:12.000 Although 2 million people died in the US, it's still less than 1% of the population. So you could actually, I don't know any. 103 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:20.000 I have heard of friends who died of COVID, but I didn't know anybody personally who died of COVID who I was well connected to. 104 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:29.000 And the only reason I'm more aware is I live across the street from hospital. So I've seen a lot of activity to the hospital during the higher the crisis. 105 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:41.000 Also, to make matters worse, Covid-nineteen disproportionately affects the elderly minorities, residents of community living facilities, nursing homes, prisons, etc. 106 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:45.000 And probably high-end density population areas. It is possible during the early stages of the pandemic not to know anyone who had COVID much less died from it. 107 00:13:45.000 --> 00:14:00.000 Slow progress of information in the early stages of Covid-nineteen. The government during the early period made mistakes which hurt their credibility. 108 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:12.000 Misinformation was spread in social media about phony cures and prevention measures. It became politicised with the right wing seizing on it as an infringement of rights and a plot by elites. 109 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:23.000 The Trump administration facilitates, desolated on the seriousness of the pandemic and occasionally gave support to the protesters. 110 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:40.000 Okay. Restrictions put on in place related to kovat 19 and some reactions these measures mass mandates social distances shelter in place orders businesses closed schools closed remote learning and later vaccine mandates for certain occupations. 111 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:50.000 Negative consequences restrictions. There was a rise in unemployment. Increase in business failures, increase loneliness, increase stress and other negative consequences. 112 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:55.000 Reactions. Protests against Covid-nineteen COVID restrictions started in April of 2,020. 113 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:58.000 These public measures were seen as an infringement rights. American Revolution, 2, began spreading on the internet. 114 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:11.000 So there was actually talk about a new revolution. Anthea Falchi, expert in infectious disease, receive death threats and needed protection. 115 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:19.000 Protesters with rifles entered the legislature, the mission of admit of Michigan to intimidate legislators. 116 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:27.000 Clock to kidnap the governor of Michigan uncovered and thwarted. Many small acts of violence against enforcement mandates. 117 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:44.000 So there was a lot of craziness. Okay, so how are we gonna understand this? Next vapor talks about defines motive as a complex of meaning which appears to the actor himself or to the observer to be adequate grounds for his conduct. 118 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:54.000 Mills points out motives are accepted justification for the present future or past programs or acts. Gail. 119 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:59.000 And the footnote Mills notes, of course, and modas are communicated. They may be lies. 120 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:07.000 But this must be proven. Verbalizations are not lies merely because they are socially officious. 121 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:14.000 I am here concerned with the social function of pronounced motives. Than with the sincerity of them pronouncing it. 122 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:21.000 So it doesn't matter if people don't believe in what they're doing. This is how we talk about it. 123 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:28.000 This is our concept. The key or master motive is our term. We're suggesting that it's an important motive in the US. 124 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:43.000 And discourse. A motive that almost has sacred status. We're talking about freedom, which is maybe Weber and Mills are suggesting a motives may appear individual but occur in the social context influenced by that context. 125 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:49.000 The vocabulary motives can be seen to provide justification for one's actions and future acts. 126 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:54.000 And so one's key or master motive doesn't. Pre-suppose the lack of other motives. 127 00:16:54.000 --> 00:17:06.000 Motive may not represent the actual cause of the behavior or even part of the cause of chain, but it may, but it is a term that is used to justify the action. 128 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:13.000 Gain. Interesting, not many sociologists, we couldn't find anybody who commented on it. 129 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:18.000 But freedom is a key or master motive in the United States. There's a writer of cause Best and Younger in his book Freedom Comments. 130 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:27.000 America is uniquely obsessed with freedom. You could see in our politics. You can hear in our discourse. 131 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:34.000 We're also strangely country full, fortunate people who are constantly friending about their lack of freedom. 132 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:45.000 There's this idea that There's this idea that sort of arisen that you can live your life without ever being told in any way what you can and can't do. 133 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:55.000 It's complete nonsense. Humans have never lived like this. Even people who think that they, like good little doomies, drive on the right. 134 00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:07.000 At the red light they stop because they know they don't know if they don't they may kill somebody if they don't care about that they might kill themselves if they don't do that they might get a ticket. 135 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:19.000 Everybody is very carefully obeying all these rules but some people think that the government actually doesn't have a right to regulate and to enforce and to create strategies to benefit the greater good. 136 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:27.000 The idea that we enjoy the benefits of a society by owing nothing in return is literally infantile. 137 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:42.000 Only children own nothing. Okay. How did freedom become a master motive? Mythologizing the US history, starting with the founding of English colonies in North America is fraught with conflict. 138 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:49.000 Competing themes. The second English county Plymouth is given precedence over Jamestown, the first county. 139 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:58.000 Romanticizing the frontier and emphasized and emphasis on rugged individualism by ignoring collective action responsibility. 140 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:05.000 The decoration of independents are flagship. As our flagship is slavery. But is slavery knowledge? 141 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:11.000 The Texas War of Independence was purportedly about rights. One of which was the right to own slaves. 142 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:19.000 So the Texans actually fought. For one of their rights is to have enslaved people, which the Mexican government had outlawed. 143 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:27.000 That's often not given very much. The US Civil War was fought over the rights, states rights to rule without federal interference. 144 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:50.000 Yet the focus of the southern states objective was to continue the custom of slavery. I actually looked up. The Constitution of the Confederate States and the one right the states did not have that was very explicit was the right to free their slaves either the whole Confederacy freed their slaves. 145 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:56.000 Or no one free their slaves. So clearly it was about slavery, but it's posed as a matter of rights. 146 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:02.000 And how the federal government is ining on their rights. 147 00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:10.000 Okay, examples is freedom is a master motive. Freedom is in our patriotic songs. Use a motive for arguments of road or restrict rights. 148 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:18.000 The word freedom, rights and liberty are used. Conveniently and always to make political statements. Not french fries, but freedom fries. 149 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:28.000 There was a period. I forget which war it was. The Iraqi war were not supporting us. And so instead of we we call chips. 150 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:35.000 French fries. They're actually from Belgium. I lived in Belgium. And they're actually all over in Belgium. 151 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:43.000 They use mayonnaise. However, in America we call them french fries. But during this conflict, It wasn't much of a conflict. 152 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:51.000 People wanted to call them freedom fries. And some people actually pushed it. Most people didn't care but That's part of the craziness. 153 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:57.000 The conflict is inherit and our political and our political system. Sometimes only to gain a political advantage. 154 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:10.000 Democrat supports civil rights minority groups, equality for women, and reproductive freedom. Republicans support economic freedoms, less government interference. 155 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:15.000 Gun ownership rights and it doesn't make it sense for these basic for these rights to be in opposition to each other. 156 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:32.000 Libertarians are the third biggest party in the US. Still very small. But libertarian party supports individual rights, including freedom, sexual minorities, economic freedom, less government interference. 157 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:41.000 And gun ownership rights, yet they ignore the rights of ethnic minorities. And the popularity of libertarians. 158 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:49.000 People, a lot of people describe themselves as libertarians. One friend of mine describes himself as a Christian anarchist. 159 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:54.000 He's got a PhD in philosophy and we wrote a book together. And socialism is a bad word in the United States. 160 00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:23.000 It's seen as taking away freedom. And I had a conversation with a distant cousin who very nice person and she says she thinks of herself as a libertarian though she liked the socialist candidate and I said what Laws don't you like and she was thinking I said the only thing you have with the federal government is the post 161 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:36.000 office and paying income tax. He said we wouldn't like to pay income tax and so. But that's really not, restriction at state laws and then she said well there's laws in California I don't like But she lives in New York State. 162 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:43.000 So even though she can't think of the laws she doesn't like. See, the idea is very simple minded. 163 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:51.000 We have too many laws. We do the laws. And everything will be wonderful. Okay. 164 00:22:51.000 --> 00:23:07.000 The freedom caucus, for example, is conservative Republican group in Congress, reports to be interested in fighting the good fight, Tea Party type resistant, yet none of their messaging and motives are meant to serve the public interest but rather to disrupt government. 165 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:15.000 Florida, Florida restricts conversation about days, transsexuals, and African-american history in what's called parents rights. 166 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:29.000 This is in reference to schools. Governor of Florida calls Florida the free state of Florida. His presidential campaign slogan is make America, Florida. 167 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:39.000 And there's actually even a group of parents calling them the Liberty parents. And what they want to do is restrict conversations about things they don't like. 168 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:50.000 So, and they pass laws that are Not well written, somewhat ambiguous that have penalties for teachers if they say the wrong things. 169 00:23:50.000 --> 00:24:00.000 And it doesn't matter if the teacher's in a gay marriage, if the teacher mentions something about that, they can be in trouble. 170 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:13.000 Applying the vocabulary motors perspective of the pandemic in the U. Those identifying their motives as freedom aim to have our understanding of freedom as being as expansive as possible because freedom is a master motive in the US. 171 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:23.000 Is used to justify resistance and covert restrictions. As justification the lobby against COVID restrictions. Is used to override other concerns. 172 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:33.000 Because of the political polarization you asked the right Republicans use this as a rallying point And it didn't matter that. 173 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:45.000 The federal government was that the president executive government was actually Republican. They still rallied against it. 174 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:54.000 And people were upset about mass mandates and everything else. Public health concerns the right of people to be safe from contagion are ignored. 175 00:24:54.000 --> 00:25:00.000 Freedom is used in conjunction with other justification. COVID is not that dangerous. Masks don't work. 176 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:07.000 B scenes are not dangerous. I should be, etc. 177 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:15.000 Okay, so here's just a picture of people saying free Ohio. And they used the term free Michigan, free Ohio. 178 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:24.000 Those who lived in America during this time know what I mean. It was a lot of craziness and it was seen as this, the term freedom. 179 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:39.000 It really makes no sense. Again, you know. Freedom is. Is this paradox that if I want to be free from affection you need to be vaccinated and wear a mask. 180 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:47.000 But people don't understand that it's all do with your own thing and there's no rhyme or reason. 181 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:58.000 And even with the libertarian party, it doesn't, no one says, let's see, do we, Aristotle talked about anger, to be angry at the right person at the right time in the right way. 182 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:05.000 The same thing with laws. They need to be the right laws. Executed in the right way for the right reasons. 183 00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:11.000 And rather than too many laws, do we have the right laws and are they done the right way should be the issue? 184 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:20.000 Hey. What is it about freedom you don't understand? Here's some more pictures for the pandemic. 185 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:29.000 And we had a lot of protests. I was actually at a event. In Providence and we have people running around with bullhorns and health workers. 186 00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:43.000 Shouting and disturbing. A social event. Stand up, take your freedom back. Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state has become lawless or corrupt. 187 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:54.000 Okay, what can be done about it? Simply providing information or facts is not enough. This is about what to do about pandemics and public health. 188 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:59.000 Action at the community in that level. We need to craft better public health messages. That's obvious. 189 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:09.000 Educate the media how to discuss epidemic restrictions. Promote restrictions and posting misinformation on social media. 190 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:16.000 Just 12 from I am people are responsible for 2 thirds of all the anti-vaxing posts. 191 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:23.000 Point out that the moral entrepreneurs are making money on advancing the political agenda. Working with individuals. 192 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:33.000 First you need to find out the real reason for vaccination. Hasency or refusal of foul covert restrictions. 193 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:56.000 Basically throwing out the word freedom. Is somewhat ridiculous. I have a friend of mine who is somewhat right-wing who thinks he's not a racist and He doesn't like to go into places to say Black Lives Matter and I was talking to him and I said Joe you went into places to say Black Lives Matter and I was talking to him and I said Joe you went into this 194 00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:01.000 Cuban restaurant. And I was talking to him, and I was talking to him and I said, Joe, you went into this Cuban restaurant with me, even though it was a scientist at the Cuban restaurant with me, even though it was a scientist at Black Lives Matter. 195 00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.000 So, it was a scientist at Black Lives Matter. So the scientist at Black Lives Matter. So we won't go to this movie theater. 196 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:07.000 He said, they also say transgender rights are human rights. And I said, what do you have against transgender people? 197 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:15.000 He said, they take away my rights. He said, what? I, they want me to call them by their preferred pronoun. 198 00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:20.000 I said, how's that taking away your rights? That's ridiculous. But he used that motivation. 199 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:29.000 As ridiculous as it seems. He went to that. And I can say. 200 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:35.000 Working, okay, refer to the individual to his or her primary care physician. Usually they are trusted. 201 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:44.000 By their patients. Long term social societal action, demithicizing US history and a non threatening matter. 202 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:57.000 Better science education and media literacy. That's a major problem. That also would say, we should also say better civics education. 203 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:02.000 And here's the record and says thank you very much. I didn't put that down but. 204 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:05.000 Thank you. 205 00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.000 Yeah. Sure. 206 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:13.000 Yes, thank you, Michael. Can now have some questions maybe from the people who are. And, about that the presentation. 207 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:14.000 Okay. 208 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:19.000 Very good. Very nice. Potential presentation. Liberty and and the collective issues. 209 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.000 Yeah. 210 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:25.000 Any question? 211 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.000 I have a question. 212 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:30.000 Yes, go. 213 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.000 Yes. 214 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:36.000 Hi, thank you, Jacques. So my question is to Michael, thank you for your presentation. 215 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:46.000 Michael. Your, the last part of your presentation where you talk about your friend. 216 00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:56.000 And he's. Views on race his views on. 217 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:09.000 Trans people. And you refer to him as your friend. So as a sociologist, help me make sense of that. 218 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:10.000 II, 219 00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:20.000 Well, as Socia. The political divide has has caused a lot of Oh, sorry. The political divide has caused a lot of disruption. 220 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:28.000 I try to maintain a friendship with him. One of the strange things is that basically he's a kind and decent person. 221 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:35.000 My ex-wife of over 30 years I've recently been contacted. She's even more extreme. 222 00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:52.000 And you know they were protesting the Vietnam War and she post lots of craziness. She also gives money to charity and very kind individuals and when they interact with individuals very much so, but they endorse all this crazy political stuff. 223 00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:06.000 And I keep I keep in contact with my friend Joe. I don't actually contact my Do much contact with my ex-wife. 224 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:20.000 Just to open up channels because he's sort of kinduit to other people that we know in common and we do social, he lives in a different city that we know in common. And he lives in a different city. 225 00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:34.000 When I'm in that city, where the city I come from, But it is a strain and There are people who I feel who are have that orientation who just don't talk about it. 226 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:49.000 And it causes a lot of difficulties and it seems like most older white people. Are like many older white people are like that, including people who have PhDs. 227 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:53.000 I have a friend who has a doctorate in social work. And I was surprised he voted for Trump the first time. 228 00:31:53.000 --> 00:32:10.000 He thinks that he has a lot. He did vote for Biden because he couldn't stand Trump, but I was really shocked about A lot of his beliefs and he is a very good psychotherapist. 229 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:18.000 He is a doctor and social work full professor. I think he's reasonably well published and he goes along with these crazy ideas. 230 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:22.000 I was trying to convince him that Black Lives Matter is actually a diffuse group. There's actually sort of 3 aspects to it. 231 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:32.000 And that, but he didn't want to hear it, they're just bad, they're evil, that's it. 232 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:59.000 And, it really is. A problem. That and, Other than. Phd sociology friends, I'm not sure how many people are pastor our priest is liberal and we have a transgender person in our parish. 233 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:07.000 But there's a lot of craziness in the United States at this time. And some of these things are popular. 234 00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:17.000 And so it's very sad, very problematic. Hopefully it will burn itself out. 235 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:18.000 Yeah. 236 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:29.000 So I don't I don't want to turn this into a discussion but Just to say, I think we have a, a fundamental a professional responsibility. 237 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:49.000 To advocate on behalf of marginalised and vulnerable people. And, I think by associations with, person that in direct a violation of fundamental human rights is I don't want it ethically problematic. 238 00:33:49.000 --> 00:34:05.000 Right. Well. Yeah, well, remember this is more in theory what he does in practice. It's different and I'm doing an editor book which will be out hopefully in a month or 2. 239 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:15.000 And my co-editor is transgender. And I have been advocating like for our Conference upcoming that we. 240 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:21.000 Deal appropriately with transgender people. So. 241 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:28.000 On a on a final note you're either racist or you're not having a transgender Best friend, co-eder or or a black, does not make you any less racist. 242 00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:39.000 Thank you. 243 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.000 You know, I 244 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:44.000 Okay, yes, Michael living now. 245 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:48.000 Markel Stovie? Is this one working? Sit down. I'm sure here. 246 00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:58.000 Who's that? Okay, well any other comments or questions or? II would, I wouldn't. 247 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:01.000 I have a comment. 248 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:02.000 Yeah. 249 00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:12.000 You go over there. Is, can you hear me? Okay. Yeah, Michael, I just wanted 2 things and I hope I can remember what the second thing was, and I hope I can remember what the second thing was. 250 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:20.000 But the first one was about You talk about medical doctors, you know, that they should go to their general practitioner. 251 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:27.000 But I've heard stories about general practitioners in the States who also had sort of negative views with regard to vaccines. 252 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:31.000 Was that true? And how did that? I'm sure there are. There are some marginal doctors. 253 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:45.000 When I lived in Belgium, The doctor I went to, which was our list recommended by the American Embassy, didn't believe in 9 11. 254 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:55.000 And he asked him. Had some practices. They were little strange. One of the problems in the medical profession, they can do whatever they want. 255 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:57.000 I don't think they can do whatever they want. I don't think they're police very well. 256 00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:10.000 And there are I mean, there is actually the Surgeon General of Florida. Actually fudge some data about one of the vaccines that made it look more dangerous. 257 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:20.000 So there are a lot of medical people that are that express sort of contrary views and I say they're not very well police. 258 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:31.000 So one of the leading anti-vaxers is a medical doctor. Actually there were quite a few medical doctors who do it, but they're minority. 259 00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:37.000 And when you have, you know, I know how many hundreds of thousands of physicians you're going to have it. 260 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:48.000 I've also met nurses who were I'm skeptical of the vaccine. First, there's 2 problems in public health which I present. 261 00:36:48.000 --> 00:37:01.000 Is you are biologically unique. Which me and even identical twins are biologically unique. And that means that what works for you may not work for somebody else. 262 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:10.000 Not only that, you may even have a paradoxical reaction. I worked a lot with substance misuse and New York State, New York City. 263 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:18.000 And there were occasionally people who had took heroin to found it as a stimulant. Which is completely opposite what it normally is. 264 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:28.000 Because you're biologically unique. No vaccine, no vaccine or medical procedure. Will work 100% and some could be dangerous to you. 265 00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:36.000 They tested on 30, 40, maybe 50,000 people, but they monitor it because you couldn't have a bad reaction. 266 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:46.000 And, and another issue is we don't know the long term consequences of any medical procedure because you can't wait 50 years before you do it. 267 00:37:46.000 --> 00:38:03.000 So what you do is you monitor for a couple years and you also Look at first principles is likely to harm and so with all this the fact that the vaccines were rushed they were approved. 268 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:09.000 And they are safe. I actually been vaccinated 5 times. I got vaccinated just before I came here. 269 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:20.000 There are still problems with them and there have also been accidents with vaccines. There were in some cases where the virus wasn't. 270 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:25.000 Killed, it ended up infecting people, think for polio. There's been contamination. 271 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:38.000 So medical things are not perfect, so they take that. And also when I point out is with 2 million people dying in a country of over 300 million, it's less than 1%. 272 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:43.000 And so in the early stages of the vaccine, people went around my friend Joe said, do you know anybody who has it? 273 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:49.000 Do you know anybody? And, you know, I eventually now I know lots of people have it. 274 00:38:49.000 --> 00:39:07.000 I don't know anybody, people told me that you remember such and such person well he died from kovat but people haven't had a contact with dive with kovat or really was hospitalized but with COVID or really was hospitalized but I literally live across the street from a hospitalized but I literally live across the street from a hospital and you 275 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:13.000 could see I actually sometimes see them take the dead bodies out and they were they had extended the things for the hospital. 276 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:21.000 Our parish priest is also the chaplain and he just begs people because he holds their hands as they die. 277 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:30.000 You know, to be vaccinated. So all this sort of, you know, there's just a lot of craziness. 278 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:41.000 And I was surprised a lot of nurses and not on nurses are have bachelor's degrees and not all nurses have bachelor's degrees so I'm not sure if it's the training of nurses, I have bachelor's degrees. I'm not sure if it's a training or nurses. 279 00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:47.000 And even I worked in a school, a pre-physician school. Physicians are not really taught science. 280 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:57.000 And one of the things I also worked at a nursing school and one of the things I learned in a nursing school is when I see an article written by MDs. 281 00:39:57.000 --> 00:40:05.000 I look for the first PhD I see. And I assume that's the person who wrote the article. 282 00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:14.000 In a nursing school, one of our biosatisticians who actually both of them had at staff degrees. 283 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:20.000 Told me that she wrote a whole grand application from soup to nuts and was not put on it. 284 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:33.000 So the bio statisticians often designed the experiments They often analyze the experiments. And the physicians very seldom really have that scientific training. 285 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:41.000 So even the way they're trained and they're often not trained in public health that well. So that may explain some of it. 286 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:48.000 And it was sort of a eye opener because Working with physicians, I saw them make, They make mistakes all the time. 287 00:40:48.000 --> 00:41:03.000 And in the US, one of the 10 leading causes of death is nitrogenic causes. And if you want to take away something, always check with your physician. 288 00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:10.000 Tells you, go online, they make mistakes, make sure there's no interaction with whatever drugs you take. 289 00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:29.000 And they have to know a vast amount of knowledge and they do it on their feet and they have some systems now knowledge and they do it on their feet and they have some systems now to prevent it on their feet and they have some systems now to prevent negative interactions with medicine but It really helps to be educated. 290 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:38.000 Consumer and since everybody here is educated you can read the medical literature. There's something called Pubmed. 291 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:46.000 Online also called MEDLINE is the same thing. You can look up and do your own research on whatever they give you. 292 00:41:46.000 --> 00:42:02.000 And also there's the Cochrane collaborative about What's acceptable? One of the physicians I was working with told me that her husband who's a physician had an operation on his knee because I have some knee problems. 293 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:08.000 And she said, the operation was totally bogus. So this is a physician married to a physician getting a bogus operation from another physician. 294 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:23.000 So there are some issues and I, you know, I have 4 or 5 doctors. I don't know how many doctors you have. 295 00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:31.000 Some of them just aren't any good. So, yeah, I don't know if that answer. 296 00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:32.000 Okay. 297 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:38.000 He's probably not. If I understood you correctly, there's a tendency in the US for people to think that there's a tendency in the US. 298 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:45.000 For people to think that giving somebody else rights means it takes away from my rights. How do we deal with that? 299 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:56.000 How do we? I was saying at St. Moore trying to more emphasize, I would try to demystalize the US because we have this rugged individualism. 300 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:57.000 Yeah. 301 00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:08.000 People went out into the wilderness with a gun, an axe and a Bible. And then they tamed it, but there were actually a lot of social you know, work. 302 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:22.000 To it and we emphasized the pilgrims because they came for religious freedom. However, only one third of the people in the Mayflower, which is the ship that pilgrims came on, came for religious freedom. 303 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:47.000 Others came for economic. Opportunity and that's what Jamestown was for. And the understands her rights and and that. 304 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:48.000 No. 305 00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:54.000 There is all this talk about brotherhood and and you know respecting other people but you end up with this craziness with rights and we also have strong fundamentalist component only recently have more than 50% of the US Believe in evolution. 306 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:55.000 No. 307 00:43:55.000 --> 00:44:08.000 So we have a lot of Small, fundamentalist Christian churches that don't believe. In, evolution or, and have a a contentious relationship with science. 308 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:28.000 And. And actually majority of the American population is basically socially conservative. And The reason the only reason the Democrats win is that they get a lot of the black and minority vote. 309 00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:47.000 And much of the prickly African American vote in the US are socially conservative, very fundamental as Christians, but because the Democratic Party has the back of African-americans and supports civil rights. 310 00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:48.000 Wow, that's good. 311 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:52.000 Many of them sort of ignore their religious concerns and vote democratic. And so it's a very, Strange, you know. 312 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:58.000 Next year. America is still very socially conservative. People still go to church on Sundays more than other countries. 313 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:12.000 It's getting less and less. And even, large denominations like the Catholic Church they have number of very conservative bishops who are at war with the Pope. 314 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:20.000 The Pope is replacing them. Actually, even though I The city I live in had a very conservative bishop. 315 00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:36.000 He just had retired, replaced by somebody, much more socially. Reasonable and and so I mean There are a number of crazy religious people in the US. 316 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:47.000 And it's, You know, so that's part of the dynamics. Okay. 317 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:48.000 Thank you very much. 318 00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:55.000 Okay, so maybe maybe. Conclude with that? Well, I would say there's a lot of work to do with We have a lot of work to do with. 319 00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:00.000 Is it? 320 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.000 Okay, so, Michael, you're doing now. 321 00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:08.000 Yeah. I'm sorry. 322 00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:09.000 Michael is left, yeah. 323 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:13.000 Yes. Yes, yes. Thank you. Jack. 324 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:14.000 How did you escape to clear up? 325 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:20.000 Okay. So we are finished with the first presentation. Is okay. 326 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:25.000 Okay, yeah, yes, thanks. 327 00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:41.000 Okay, thank you very much. And, but very substantial presentation and very important one also about the sacred side of liberty against, all the institutions in a way. 328 00:46:41.000 --> 00:47:00.000 Sorry, enlightening this situation with the meeting some periods in United States. Well a second one will be from the one that was there is a Auba. 329 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.000 And that will be in French. 330 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:13.000 Yes, sweet. Wait. 331 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:14.000 That's it. Yeah. Yeah. 332 00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:17.000 Okay. Michael, are you talking about Kosari and Ara? They presentation. Because that's uploaded a presentation. 333 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:21.000 Shall I start it? Are they online? 334 00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:27.000 Yeah, I should start. It's online and it it will be in French. So you can be one can use me at least I would say this. 335 00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:42.000 Subtitle application you have on the bottom of your zoom. screen you know There is an application. 336 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:50.000 How about the subtitle? Surely I subtitle. 337 00:47:50.000 --> 00:48:00.000 Okay, so that's the the presentation of the Are you bytra and to, not there, but he has worked preparing that. 338 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:03.000 It is a you that will present it. 339 00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:09.000 Hello. 340 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.000 You. 341 00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:12.000 We. 342 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:13.000 I don't know. I don't know how to do that. 343 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:16.000 So, Yeah, there is no I thought it will be a speech. There is no science. Okay. 344 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:44.000 Dako. Don't. A a Get Don't. 345 00:48:44.000 --> 00:49:10.000 Sophie, So, Okay. Let's keep. This is and Don't. 346 00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:40.000 We, On a The You would Anyone context? Just a the Mr. System, Politic. 347 00:49:42.000 --> 00:50:08.000 And, the list to have a So, Well. 348 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:38.000 It on. Surely. And so you see, Yeah, Medieval workout is in. The Did, It's Ti. 349 00:50:47.000 --> 00:51:09.000 The Er, to Islamic. 350 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:39.000 On the Take a Do the the system politic. Do Cool. Oh, So, also context. Do that and mechanism strategic. 351 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:59.000 Yeah, Cool. It won't totally. To move more quality. If you 352 00:51:59.000 --> 00:52:29.000 Well, the you need to see no list or received on, on, I am. Oh fit the The Are you, The Don't. 353 00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:59.000 No, So, The who is to see, On the from, Nouveau Model to develop more. 354 00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:29.000 Well, The On the . The Sit down. The capital. Don't. 355 00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:58.000 Okay. 356 00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:13.000 Fabina. Did you do, Well, So, system systematic. You know, and with the in There was. 357 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:24.000 Oh, we haven't. 358 00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:30.000 To move to. 359 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:31.000 The student. 360 00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:38.000 Cool. Shumini, The the Your. 361 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:59.000 To your the v. The . The So, Politic. So, The sociology unique. 362 00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:06.000 Yes. Know something called 363 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:36.000 Love, the, and Kristy Posi from the Montreal. addictively. 364 00:55:38.000 --> 00:56:08.000 You know, Let me see. Sokia and Porthos. Jahji Do Lemon, do L You see, Yeah, So, You mean who fully is fully? 365 00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:59.000 CERCY, Do you The So, He consider it come the Romo politic. For what? 366 00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:29.000 You know, Unipok. The It's, She's a a in Class. The Oh, It The Nepal. 367 00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:28.000 Meet your constriction. L. In So. The The We The Mischief. 368 00:58:41.000 --> 00:59:11.000 The Okay. Oh, So, The la. It's on the second. 369 00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:39.000 The So, It was, So Di Me. 370 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:44.000 Also. 371 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:57.000 In. Lefort. D. Alan Turin. 372 00:59:57.000 --> 01:00:27.000 So, Dashi, You see, The Go ahead. Sit. Only feel The the node. 373 01:00:33.000 --> 01:00:57.000 In D. Your concept Really don't. Sackup ability. Seek What is he? 374 01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:27.000 RICCO sent the You know, From the So, with a fair emergency in L Cousin. 375 01:01:30.000 --> 01:02:00.000 So, The Lamimo, Lashar, Jean, He don't want, or Kilicon, Mickeya Avikti Shakim. 376 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:24.000 Oh 377 01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:29.000 No, SIR, in. 378 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:57.000 The on you. The Lizzie's 379 01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:07.000 Hello. The 380 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:35.000 The lot of it is in German Jumanji realism. Auto. The socio I like he's Don't sit. 381 01:03:35.000 --> 01:04:05.000 Yeah, So, You see, on the you call the reflex You need to be clear. 382 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:32.000 So Postila Clinic, the on the Do the Politic. 383 01:04:32.000 --> 01:05:02.000 One, The The The She will Yeah, For example, To see more more anti-lexture contribute on FET. Allah. 384 01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:49.000 Construction in Al Look at, See, Limoili. No. Sequel of this is past reflexive. 385 01:05:49.000 --> 01:06:03.000 Ecetic. With the . The We. 386 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:13.000 You Thank you. 387 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:36.000 Shock. Could I ask that you just give a brief translation of what the speaker said for the people in the audience who do not understand French. 388 01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:46.000 Shock. 389 01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:53.000 Troft. 390 01:06:53.000 --> 01:07:07.000 So right, I will try to make some, translation, yes. But it's always very short because it's complex presentation and quite, with many developments so we won't be able to catch everything. 391 01:07:07.000 --> 01:07:16.000 But the main idea I could, translate. Is the idea out the clinical sociology approach with critical? 392 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:35.000 Could the build up some new perspective about what the call in French and the political subjects. And in the process of getting more and more Freedom but freedom together with the more democratic view of life. 393 01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:58.000 In, in, because it was the place he was, situating the issue. So, it was, contrasted to what we call the more authoritarian kind of, state control that was developed for so many years in Morocco. 394 01:07:58.000 --> 01:08:06.000 Which some openness may be with the some in more economical freedom. But such such a limit of freedom. 395 01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:15.000 Because it was only, to be a productive kind of freedom. Are centered on a very economical view. 396 01:08:15.000 --> 01:08:45.000 And not complex, I would say freedom open to all kinds of social issues. Like freedom of speech freedom of putting some equality in every in the population some freedom for our i would say That's much more important than just this very very limited freedom that was to by the government. 397 01:08:45.000 --> 01:08:55.000 And of course in Morocco, the Mohamed says, is, is calling himself, the, the, he's, he's, this funding. 398 01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:06.000 His power on a very absolute sense. So he is in control over everything in a way, even if it may make some I would say compromise. 399 01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:15.000 With the economy and with some limited expression of freedom. So it's why clinical sociology in that sense is so important. 400 01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:35.000 And particularly with this practice of life. Right. Festries as a methodology to try to make people remember where they are coming from in the whole process of their life in Morocco and now they can be more critical. 401 01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:48.000 About developing new perspective about the development of Baroque to Morocco. So it's what I could say from, what I heard from, I hope it was much more complex than that. 402 01:09:48.000 --> 01:09:56.000 I don't think it's the main idea how to develop a real I would say open, subjective politics. 403 01:09:56.000 --> 01:10:04.000 View. And not only a respected one. Always under the control. Of the big chief, you know. 404 01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:12.000 Like. The, The actual state government. 405 01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:16.000 Thank you, Jacques. 406 01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:17.000 Yeah, thank you. 407 01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:19.000 Hi, I hope I hope it's clear enough. 408 01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:22.000 Are there any questions? 409 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:30.000 Yeah, about that. And, I would try to make a comment between the 2 presentations, maybe. 410 01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:45.000 It was interesting to see that, for United States as a case. You know the states was built up on the I would say the defense and freedom when the people coming in United States. 411 01:10:45.000 --> 01:11:01.000 Some weeks ago, it was about the freedom. Was against the King, the Gans. It's, based on freedom, how to would say very authoritarian kind of government be met. 412 01:11:01.000 --> 01:11:12.000 You for example in England or in France in that time. So it was, freedom again. I would say absolute state. 413 01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:29.000 And more and more that freedom came to be very much individually in a way individualistic. But also traditional in the sense of building up self interest with the part of the American people. 414 01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:44.000 Not including everyone. I'm very resistant to any kind of differences I would say for example black people or general issues, all the kinds of outer. 415 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:54.000 Populations. So it came to be a very negative kind of liberty against many people. And, for, I except for as a group. 416 01:11:54.000 --> 01:12:04.000 That could be, they could find themselves. The conservative way of, building up, United States. 417 01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:12.000 So it was, I would say freedom. Against the institutions. One they are and they have build them, build, build up. 418 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:31.000 Institutions but only with some defensive way of keeping the sacred kind of liberty they was supposed to build up in united states In contrast, the Morocco is built up about an absolute state. 419 01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:42.000 From many years. And then It came up that that more and more people. Are getting at the desire to develop their own freedom. 420 01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:52.000 Together and resist that kind of absolute power right now. So it's a different, historical view, I would say. 421 01:12:52.000 --> 01:13:04.000 And freedom quest in Morocco is sort of a liberation kind of movement Like freedom right now in the United States, the defensive. 422 01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:18.000 Kind of movement. So liberation in one way because there is still a very important state power. Around the person, you know, the The Mormon 6 and the other way. 423 01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:30.000 It's defensive freedom against all kinds of institutions. And even there some popular, presidents like, Trump was illustrating that. 424 01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:38.000 Non confidence about the institutions and to play with rules. So it's easy it focused on the defensive kind. 425 01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:48.000 Of freedom not the participatory and more collective. View of freedom together with everyone. So that's my way, to, to see that 2 kinds of, things. 426 01:13:48.000 --> 01:14:11.000 And while we build up this, the session. What I just played, you know, with those 2 2 elements in the in the way there is mythical thinking and religion so the search for, I would say. 427 01:14:11.000 --> 01:14:20.000 Sacred kind of references in any way for freedom of the United States. And for, the state in Morocco. 428 01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:32.000 And democracy very hard to build up on that ground. Because you have to bet or to accept institutions. Collective rules, collective participation. 429 01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:45.000 And more often, to everyone. In a society. So in that, the, how he idea a contrasting I would say too much religion too much. 430 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:58.000 Non-scientific and rational way of doing. And not enough with same a participation freedom. In in our in the one society. 431 01:14:58.000 --> 01:15:28.000 Well, that will be in my comment. He's good. No. 432 01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:39.000 Yeah. 433 01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:43.000 We effective more. I'm The between My Oh, the He details me. 434 01:15:43.000 --> 01:16:04.000 The The the so-called is Rector Politic Economic So, Don't. 435 01:16:04.000 --> 01:16:05.000 Yeah. 436 01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:30.000 So, er, don't show particular what exists to the monopol. So, You. Me, of So, It's came. 437 01:16:30.000 --> 01:17:00.000 Give We don't. Usually. Well, this is because a to D. Yeah. 438 01:17:12.000 --> 01:17:30.000 Okay. 439 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:31.000 Much for reading the book by and other person. 440 01:17:31.000 --> 01:17:36.000 Yeah You, this, this, is, See the Well, You're too awkward kicks potassium, you politic can only be ready to start. 441 01:17:36.000 --> 01:18:06.000 Okay. 442 01:18:14.000 --> 01:18:15.000 Okay. 443 01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:17.000 So system politics. Or on the minimum. On a The But, So, in a Oh, to start. 444 01:18:17.000 --> 01:18:19.000 Voila. 445 01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:25.000 Yeah, I'll try to just say some words in English for that. So yeah, I was just confirming that. 446 01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:40.000 It's that's very very important. I would say authority and. State power in a miracle, but it's a change coming in from the last baby that last 10 or 15 years or there is some opening. 447 01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:55.000 More democratic or liberty kind of activist activity in Morocco because of the economy because also the people that are getting more and more involved in some kind of participation. 448 01:18:55.000 --> 01:19:08.000 So that's the really they the situation now in Morocco some opening but the strong still as strong a state power and and view. 449 01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:17.000 So I think that, Liza is that there also is about only it that was supposed to be the third presentation. 450 01:19:17.000 --> 01:19:25.000 So we'll have. Probably to conclude or something like that. Unless you have comments in on your part. 451 01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:38.000 Tina or And you know, or, or even see that or people are still there. 452 01:19:38.000 --> 01:19:39.000 Yeah. 453 01:19:39.000 --> 01:19:43.000 It's too bad because we are missing 2 presentations that towards that world, but I've been much. 454 01:19:43.000 --> 01:19:49.000 And addressing also. 455 01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:50.000 Okay. 456 01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:53.000 Yeah, that's also one of those things that just happened. At the moment, Michael had to go to another presentation that he's doing. 457 01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:56.000 That's it. 458 01:19:56.000 --> 01:20:01.000 So it's only Emma and Amitra that are still left in the room and Maria is still there. 459 01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:02.000 Yeah. 460 01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:11.000 So thank you Jock. It's a pity. I tried, I eventually got this transcript ready but I mean it doesn't translate ready but I mean it doesn't translate French very well. 461 01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:20.000 Yeah, that's it. I think it's a, yeah, there's the limitation of this online for functioning of course. 462 01:20:20.000 --> 01:20:23.000 Yeah, yeah. 463 01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:51.000 And I'm the simple, So, you can do, So. 464 01:20:51.000 --> 01:21:01.000 Listen. 465 01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:02.000 Yeah. 466 01:21:02.000 --> 01:21:03.000 Thank you, Jack. Thank you very much and thank you very much for the great presentations. Thank you for moderating it well. 467 01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:10.000 And thank you very much for the great presentations. Thank you for moderating it well. And despite all the technical hiccups, we have a good session. 468 01:21:10.000 --> 01:21:15.000 So I think it is a great discussion about freedom and all this mythologies that we do in our research. 469 01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:18.000 So thank you very much. We'll see you in our next session. Okay. 470 01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:31.000 That's it. Okay. So goodbye and Have a good day for somebody in the world. 471 01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:32.000 Bye. Thank you. 472 01:21:32.000 --> 01:21:33.000 Thank you. Thank you. Keep well. 473 01:21:33.000 --> 01:21:37.000 Good evening for people from here in Montreal. Okay. Oh, thank you. Hey, bye. 474 01:21:37.000 --> 01:21:40.000 Right. 475 01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:44.000 Bye. 476 01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:52.000 I are. 477 01:21:52.000 --> 01:21:53.000 Yes, okay. 478 01:21:53.000 --> 01:21:59.000 Okay. So, next, meeting, And for me in June on Thursday. What about the do you go? 479 01:21:59.000 --> 01:22:00.000 Yeah. 480 01:22:00.000 --> 01:22:02.000 I missed a business meeting, you know. Because, wasn't night at night in my place here. 481 01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:06.000 The end of, I perform. 482 01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:12.000 And you are there? 483 01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:13.000 Oh yes, okay. 484 01:22:13.000 --> 01:22:19.000 Jack, thank you so much. This is Emma speaking. We had a We had a good business meeting. 485 01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:20.000 Okay. 486 01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:43.000 In fact, we tried to trace the recruitment process. So we had a business meeting and we basically nominated you for vice president for international relations and therefore and very well acclaim so we have now 11 people on the board. 487 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:50.000 Oh, that's right. 488 01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:51.000 Yeah. Oh, you are there. 489 01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:57.000 We will write about it in the an excused letter but if you look at the nominees practically all the nominees were were approved to the new board and then so Tina Oyst is now our president. 490 01:22:57.000 --> 01:23:06.000 Oh, okay. 491 01:23:06.000 --> 01:23:11.000 Okay. 492 01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:22.000 Okay 493 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:23.000 Okay. 494 01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:30.000 Vice President for International Relations, you drugs and then vice-president for development Sharon Everhardt, Vice President for program is Maryam Sedat and then Secretary pressure is Johanna Sorreta so and all the of course you appointed all the regional representatives that applied and We are Tina also nominated Chen 495 01:23:30.000 --> 01:23:31.000 Oh yeah, okay. 496 01:23:31.000 --> 01:23:42.000 Wei from Nigeria to the board to get our African representation. And David, Dotto it will be continuing talking taking care of our website and it's our social media manager. 497 01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:43.000 So thank you very much for. 498 01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:47.000 Okay. And I'm still there. I'm not I've not seen your your name. 499 01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:54.000 You're still on the Heyma? 500 01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:55.000 Hey, I hope so. 501 01:23:55.000 --> 01:24:04.000 Oh, well, I'm the president outgoing president. And so, and of course the life you've received your newsletter with a lifetime with our awardees. 502 01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:07.000 Oh, yes, yes, I, yes. 503 01:24:07.000 --> 01:24:15.000 Did you? Yes, so our lifetime and our already is Benjamin Gallak and then our early career sociologist is Dr. 504 01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:20.000 Yeah. 505 01:24:20.000 --> 01:24:21.000 Yeah, that's nice. 506 01:24:21.000 --> 01:24:33.000 Bianna, yeah, Matthew Vienna and Yeah, so honestly, and then of course our standing scholarship to Jan Freeds and outstanding book, Outstanding Book Award, is Tina Oiss. 507 01:24:33.000 --> 01:24:35.000 Okay, nice. 508 01:24:35.000 --> 01:24:44.000 For the to her book on whistleblowing and then to Agnes Van and this band in Belgium. 509 01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:50.000 Yeah. 510 01:24:50.000 --> 01:24:51.000 Yeah. 511 01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:57.000 I'm the perfect guy for the dictionary of sociology. I found that very impressive. And then of course for the distinguished distinguish service to Fernando is Zaghari. 512 01:24:57.000 --> 01:24:59.000 Yeah. Okay, and thank you. 513 01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:06.000 Thank you very much Chuck for all your support and for disturbing you for the design of the plaque and all of that stuff. 514 01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:12.000 Okay, thank you very much. 515 01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:13.000 Thank you. Bye.