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yeah, it's Yeah. My name's Joy Cooper. this is presentation that comes out of my Phd. I was wondering what I did wrong to offend someone, and we all end up with Saturday afternoon presentations. But whoever it was at the Isa Organizing Committee. Sorry great to have people here to get us started. my background is that I worked in natural resources.

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Absolutely

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right. Murray. Yeah. in community development for quite a long time, and then I that's better work. Work my way into academia. So this is work that comes out of my Phd, based on working with environmental work fair programs here in Australia, I'll give a bit of history as to what that is as well.

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I'll also just thank our C. 24 for paying from a registration and the Australian Sociological Association for giving a precarious work bursary. So I bridge across those 3 areas of work, environment and youth sociology.

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and so yeah, it's great to be here in the in the rc, work. okay, so where's my clicker?

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Okay? So in Australia, we've had about a 3 decade history of national environmental work fair programs. these are pseudo military in their design. If you've been familiar with ever seeing any of these, and most Australians will be familiar with these. Every now and again they come out with a new incarnation. We've gone through Green Core, the Landcare environment action program.

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another version of Green Corps, then the National Green Jobs Corps, and most recently a program called Green Army, that ran from 2,014 to 2,018.

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They were modeled a as a bit of A On on the Civilian Conservation Core, which was a new deal program under Roosevelt in the States. So in the thirties as a a a new deal response to the depression. They established a national program in America

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to get young people out there and build trails and develop their national parks. and so we've taken that model in Australia and repeatedly tried to create it. And then, of course, due to politics. And we will cut that funding, and we will recreate it. We've ended up with this. stop, start history over 30 years

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since 2,018. It's been the longest gap that we've had without any of these programs, and that could, you know, is related to a few other

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factors my background is that I was actually a supervisor initially in these teams. with young people, mostly 17 to 20 or 70 to 24 year old, depending on the the program design, and they're paid an A below award wage. Given some workplace training in the most recent incarnation with Green Army, they were.

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even, given a separate classification of a Green Army participant under Federal legislation, and there's some suspicion that that was actually developed as a way of avoiding occupational health and safety complications of being either a worker or a volunteer. So they created a a separate category

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My research project that I did was in the wake of Green Army finishing up in 2,018 I lost my job, so I I'd already had an a an escape plan, and that was to do a Phd. On the the program. And so I recruited participants. and I ended up with quite a few supervisors as well. And so mostly the people that I recruited were those who were most

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committed and interested and excited about the whole idea of of being part of Green Army. So it's not. This isn't a representative sample. The presentation we're going to give today. will show a fair bit of data about some of the the negatives which don't go into the government reporting, which is, has traditionally been very sugar coated and made to sound, make it sound so sweet, and everybody has a lot of fun.

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and this will give you some of the the more realities of what goes on on site. That said, though there are some good outcomes as well. But there are 2 aspects of this that I want to focus on about the programs.

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and one is the way in which there was a conflation between climate and biodiversity, policies and practices by Federal government, and how the struggle against climate change was used, or or yet conflated

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by the the coalition government of the time on the Green Army that who developed Green Army and also how the program reporting didn't necessarily show it goes on on, on, on site. So there's 2 illusions here, and I do tap into slide on theory. And I've got a different presentation that's got some heavier theory. But we do tap into the concept from Bajuv. Of

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so of these 2 lies the first one or illusions is of the policy conflation, and on one hand, the the coalition, which is the Conservatives. Sorry if any Australians here a trigger warning for the the the coalition frontbench of 2010 that might take you back with some unpleasant memories. I don't know but

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Tony Abbott was proposing this 15,000 strong green army, and they were also pushing this big line of, we're not going to tax people or create an emissions, trading scheme or anything. We'll we'll do direct action. We're going to be action oriented. So they were using this militaristic approach as to how action oriented they were to dealing with the environment problem.

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Yet the programs were biodiversity programs about wheat control. There was some tree planting and a minor mention of them in the direct action which was their emissions control policy.

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but they constantly conflated these so that the programs were presented as climate change action. You can see there in part of their their real solutions for Australia policy. We will take direct action to reduce carbon emissions inside Australia, not overseas, and also establish a 15,000 strong green army to clean up the environment. So there was a constant policy conflation.

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The second illusion that was promoted was in the program reporting. And they they wanted to. There are outcomes that they wanted to produce both environmental outcomes and also social outcomes. So showing that young people were being disciplined, given training and prepared for the the future of the workforce as such, but they also wanted to create this notion that they'd established this 15,000 strong

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green Army workforce one of the ways in which they did. That was rather than having it as a standing, established 15,000. The the most that the numbers ever reached it maximum, or about 4.5,000 difficulty with recruiting and finding enough projects and funding it. So they It was a cumulative total. Over 4 years of 7,850 participants. They also included the supervisor particip as positions.

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yet the supervisors weren't even surveyed in their exit surveys. So the exit surveys were yet not based on that data. And then, when they took their exit surveys 13.6% response rate

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for a a captive audience of participants in the program, and they still got data as such. So they the the levels of here we have. Yeah, I felt I got a sense of accomplishment, a greater appreciation for the environment, all these really high figures. Yet this was coming obviously, from those people who were most keen on filling out the surveys.

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One of the other outcomes of this is this disillusion. There's a lot of people that were leaving the programs in in the process of it, in some cases finding new new jobs, but in other cases being disillusioned with the work that they were doing.

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So drawing on Baudur's concept of illusio. It's people invest in the stakes in the game. And we saw this. tension between participants as to what they thought they were there to be doing? Were they there to be fighting climate change? Were they there to help the environment as a broad, general thing as well? How were they being used. And so we see different investments of

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allusio, both from the field of power, in that the Coalition wanted them to be achieving different outcomes in terms of youth discipline, but also to be yeah, to be seen, to be direct

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action oriented for the climate problem. And that was a real contrast that they were hoping to present against the the market mechanisms that were proposed by the the left wing.

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and so, in terms of the process by which young people became disillusioned with their work. 3 stages, recognition, resistance, and resignation. So at first they'd recognize the the Sisyphean nature of their work that they were doing such hard work out in the field. Here's a quote from Felicity. They were in a swamp, stinking hot. It just felt pointless. They knew it was going to be hit again by another flood.

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and so the water hyacinths would just return. But they were you know, the the project partners were saying, you just got to go in there and keep doing it. And so they they started realizing that environmental work itself, particularly biodiversity work is something that you never solve. It's a constant management problem. and you have to constantly go back and and redo your work.

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Similarly, Scott, there's a large planting done by a previous team. They they'd encountered the work of a previous program from a few years before, and they found the trees all dead and dying, and they were told, here you go. You can go out in the same field and plant some trees all over again, and wondering. Will somebody be here to follow up the work.

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so these are negative quotes. In some cases their project projects have been well developed, and there's been good ongoing maintenance. But you can see that the participants would obviously be disillusioned with those sort of experiences.

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and then becoming more critical of the Government's motivations, reflecting and saying that yeah, it wasn't. Yeah. They they seem to be using what us for direct action to do something about climate change. Oh, hold on a second. They just want us off the off the unemployment queues. They want to reduce the unemployment statistics, and so they'll get young people active in that way, and in an extended debate about the the purpose of that, Adam simply responds. You know they were doing a whole lot of woody weed control.

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Thank you.

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how did cutting down trees help climate change? So they're starting to recognise the the paradoxes within their work.

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And then they report resistance. Most of these participants were the positive, you know, most enthusiastic ones, but they start to see that other participants were

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not so enthusiastically. Similarly, they would get vandalism from the wider community or the council staff wouldn't be briefed on the work that they were doing. So they just mow over their tree. So Whether the actual intentional vandalism or sabotage they could see that their works were were subject to forms of resistance or

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their team members purposely breaking the tools because it made a trip to Bunnings, which is the the big hardware store. And then you get a get a half hour sitting in the bus going for a ride, and you go to the get them. get some lunch as well, and the whole team would have to pack up. And yeah, okay, well, all those there enthusiastic team member. And I'm just going to join this form of resistance as well sweep I get to sit down. Fiona. Then

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thank you. Realizing that not wanting to even tell people because of the stigma of being involved in what was associated as a work fair program being associated. Thinking of it as work for the dole and mutual obligation. I joined it because I wanted to.

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Yeah, build on my university qualifications, and I found that I was associated with a whole lot of unemployed people, and then a a, a clear dispersal. So they not seeing the rest of the young people dissipating into the rest of the community, and no alumni that came from that?

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So we've had in 2,018 that cessation of Green Army. Since then we've had in Australia quite a low unemployment rate. in statistical terms. Whether that's the under employment. Is there a broader debate around that? But certainly there's a low political will to keep young people off the unemployment queues now And then we've also had the covid crisis So the idea of

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getting a bunch of 9 or 10 young people and throwing them into the back of a troop carrier and hot housing them became a bit concerning from an occupational health and safety perspective, which is yeah, it's really central to these programs. That's that's me. A younger me 10 years ago, with one of my local member, a conservative member announcing Green Army but we also have have always

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joked about the possibility of what will happen next, whether some politician will stand up and announce the next incarnation and and give it a new name, Australia, Core, or otherwise. There have been calls, and this fits very well with the 150

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conference theme of authoritarianism. There have been calls for conscription in to fight climate change and so forth. So yeah, the future will tell. Thank you. I'll lend it there.

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Thank you.

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okay. So

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I escaped from this one. Okay.

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interesting. so I think our next presenter. okay. So marijuana is going to be talking about green jobs for young people, policies and controversies. So

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while it's a at work, I realize he's a Phd. Student in Canada.

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call Stephanie Freder.

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So

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and the the objective of my presentation today is to provide an overview of the controversy surrounding the relationship between the economy and the environment. Thank you

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by the meaning attributed to the concept of grain jobs that started to dominate divide between between the link work and and ecological transition.

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And I will do that by presenting a preliminary empirical analysis of Canadian youth employment policies in the domain of brain jobs.

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Hmm.

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yes.

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So it's it's It's a exploratory research at at this moment, aiming to analyze to main policies. Dress like Canada in terms of professional integration of use or young people rate to green jobs and they it. Both these those policies offer gauge subsidies for internships in green jobs.

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and but these both policies, my policies, the only big, explicitly declared as policies in grain job for for use are implemented by 11 programs carried out by a third-part organization responsible for implementing these policies.

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So there are organization grassroots organizations who develop the policies. So we we started to realize the descriptive, descriptive and semantic documentary analysis of 37 official reports website text concerning these policies about grin. Jav. Transition for use, definition, link, etc.

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So

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how transitions link to employment, ecological transition link to employment, how both are linked to young people in Canada by the States, because they they are the section by stuff. So I will share. You see my points. the starting point behind this this research, and then I will pass 2 results.

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So

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first of all, why do we need to cross Earthy 24 and earthy 30. And we are then, and work so well, I will. Climate change, and it's not a has social consequences. So the need of an ecological transition is not due what I am saying.

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And even if we talk more often about technology, energy and industry, pollution impacts our natural resources. The ecological transitions involve work and employment in several forms.

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such as job losses, displacement, substitution, conformation, and creation of jobs.

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Through this process. linking work, an ecological transition. some actors appear as key actors, especially the State, because a ecological transition is transferred to public policies. So to to make order with how to do, we need a more more centralized centralized actor.

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but also because the States regulate work and employment in our societies is still fundamentally based on work. So then, public policies making transitioning work, I call like that are heuristically interesting to analyze the way we we think, and beyond men and and and and and and work issues.

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So there are a lot of debate about the perspective. This link, I think, but it thought sorry. But I I can answer to in this debate that there are several terms to talk about this link. A approach is different approaches, but it will to all the presentation. So I will not develop what is in orange here.

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so

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a second. Through these discussions a kitam appear and is used by a multiple actors, civil actors, public actors.

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people, but also through several perspectives, with no consensual definition. So a first broad definition of the the this concept appeared with the from the international labor organization. Talking about the link about this and work with ambitrum man.

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But this term is using with several minutes to mention job that implies some, sometimes green processes. Other time is we are talking about grain products or service. So jobs associated with green products up or service. those are the other.

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Other times we are talking about green sector, especially protected areas, natural resources or environmental services. So in this context of no clear definition, state policies and public debate talk about green jobs, very often more and more often in Canada, and they target often young people for this type of of shops.

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Third point, in fact, young people is very quickly, in my opinion, and deeply associated to ambition issues because they are protagonists of international ecological protests. Because and be ornamental, protection will be an important value for most of them, and because they are among the most vulnerable group to climate change and unemployment.

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A. so the integration of young people into a grinch of could be for the State a dial so solution to to the problem of youth, employment, and to the need of a Greece, the green transition in Canada. So in consequence and consequence. Young use employment policies in green jobs.

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A. P. And emblematic and a strategic for the ecological transition link to work. But what is a green job. Finally, with whom? These jobs?

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So the

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the we explore this question by starting by the document of the policies with a semantic analysis, not only descriptive analyses of documents about how transition and beyond men and work are finally described and defined by these policies. One

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so first of all.

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When we analyze what Federal policies create and define as green jobs. So at the at the planning level of the States.

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we found that they are very. They have very restrictive criteria, the planning level. Okay, the tax and the planning like, what State said that that would be green job policies.

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offering a reduced conception of green jobs. So they focus on the population with scale jobs, targeting students or graduate population. They concentrate most of and of internship in the file of science, technology, engineer and mathematics.

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and that exists a certain urban concentration of internship in urban concentration of internship, and is the objective main objective of the policies. Have these objectives at the level at any level of the policies.

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however, at the opposite opposite? Sorry the implementation level offer not only more accurate information about what a green job is for these policies, but also it allowed to see in practice a more natural definition about green jobs.

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So we. we, we analyze this level also.

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by these more concrete programs. I I talked before that these 2 main policies are implemented by 11 programs. We analyze. So by these more concrete programs, we can observe, for example, a widening and an inclusion of sector accent at the planning level, such as those ranching from biotechnology to dedication sector, but also construction or green manufacturing urban design, green

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urban design, and also ecological retail.

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In addition, we observed through concrete programs a greater level of specification within the traditional and new sector which make it possible to better identify, finally, which areas of the labour market could create a green shop for Gorkas and for young people.

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however, their success finally, at the moment of the distribution of internship is still a concentration in the traditional sector of the and and with most of the internship around the clean technology or unbe ornamental protection for most program, and again, focus on skilled jobs.

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Moreover, semantically, these policies and programs make action toward a non-defined object. All the program defined differently. What is a green job in their program?

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And confusing what we found in the Literature Review. Also, in fact, through program there exists an eclectic definition of rain jobs which translate concretely into jobs that are green because the sector of the industry are going because the service again or products are going, because the production process

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mit Ctl and is green in, or because a certification or because they are realized in protected area. So for some programs, someone who make cleaning, they build them the the building cleaning. But in a protected area is a green job and 150.

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well, thus we we find more classical positions of environment and occupational occupational health and safety safety especially.

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but to a 3 planter forest fire half-fighter, permacultural designer, who is also very enigmatic position, like user experience, research coordinators, junior V, their artists and also mining technologies so link to the mining industry a sector widely recognized as having predatory practice on nature.

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well, this eclectic definition of we saw that also through the definition of green skill. Ask it demanded by the program for to participate to the program or to participate to the internship. I will pass that because I have not a lot of time.

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Finally, while the criteria of equity and diversity appear less in the at the level of the planning level. The the policies don't talk about that. Okay? And I mean targeting in a technology. And so, science is not everybody who is there? Okay? we know which category social categories participate to this sector, or

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which can social category participate to some some qualified skills.

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So while the criteria of equity and the diversity appear less in the statement of Federal program. They are, on the contrary, by the implementation level 150

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mit. Ctl. And an attempt to integrate the diversity of social category of young people. However. Between the 11 programs, analyze only 4 provide really a specific or systematic information. we can see, for example, a more widespread participation of women, or lower participation of indigenous people, people, etc. 50.

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If we add this information about diversity and inclusion.

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To the, to the fact that the access criteria for the program is based in level of education we see, or some sectors, we can conclude that from the planning level to the implementation level, these policies reproduce inequalities between this category of young people on the labour market, with consequences about who

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who can benefit or participate on green job policies, so who can participate with their work in ecological transition? To conclusion mit Ctl. And to conclude that I showed that there is a conceptual in precision of the notion of Ren Job, the consequences at the level of all research and policies under implementation, that there are inequalities affecting access to the job at the level of action, to our youth, employment, integration, 150

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investment in green jobs are, in fact, investment in a a variety of jobs focused on some social category of workers sector with better quality. skill. And finally, we saw that classical and be ornamental work. Only conserve a small part of potential gun job recycling, for example.

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And isn't. It is necessary to ask the question of the viability a transition link to work that is both ecological and equitable.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Kenya. A quite interesting presentation so far.

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And then I think I want to call up locusts who is going to be looking at rethinking biodiversity conservation work on agricultural land. You can see how all these presentations are so linked.

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so far. And okay.

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 okay, farmers, biodiversity conservation decisions, a relational approach.

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Thank you.

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Let me just

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Hi, everybody. yeah. Look, I'm Patrick Lucas. And I'm from the University of New South Wales in Canberra. And I'm going to be presenting

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a bit of my Phd research which focuses on how farmers make

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our decisions for biodiversity conservation.

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And so the thrust of my argument today will be that in on farm conservation

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decision making as a lever of change has stalled because there's an over emphasis on structural and personal factors

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which neglect the experiential and performative dimensions of farmers decision making. So instead, I'm presenting research that points to farmers. Conservation decisions is comprised of

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feelings, the body and the social ecological world around them.

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President.

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hey, there we go!

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So I'm just going to set the scene for you, and I think this will tie in well with the work side of the theme, because what we're saying in Australia is that the nature of farming work is actually changing.

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So this is a freeze of Virgil's epic poem, the Georgics. And it shows farmers toiling, toiling on the land with a broad translation to

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anything can be achieved if proper work is applied.

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I find this the poem in general, and this freeze symbolic of Australia's continued demands that farmers work primarily to produce affordable food and fiber for export.

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And with this being the primary objective, we often see in farming that there's either an implicitly or explicitly

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a hostile relationship between agriculture and the environment.

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But more recently, this arrangement is is changing. It's shifting with society, increasingly demanding that food and fiber is produced, but in ways that slow stop and reverse environmental damage.

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So

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this painting here titled healing the Fowlers Creek Gulch at Biburringa, which is a sheep farm in Southeast Australia

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sort of represents these, these shifting and twin objectives. Society wants cheap and plentiful food, but it wants environmental protection, too.

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Look, I, I think these demands are completely reasonable, as we can see in this map, which shows that Australia is comprised of

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23%.

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thank you. 22% protected areas which we can see in pink and green and shades of in shades of red.

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But

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over 55 of Australia is committed to agriculture. So clearly, farmers are going to be a crucial decision makers in how we respond to the biodiversity crisis that we're facing.

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And so I'm focusing on farmers decisions because I see this as a crucial piece of the puzzle. And just for definitions, I define a decision as selecting a course of action aimed at enhancing on farm agro biodiversity or downstream ecosystems.

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So

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Australia is responding in ways to the biodiversity crisis. There are policies and programs that are being put in place

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particularly market-based instruments at the Federal level. That's what's happening at the moment. with the aim of creating financial incentives for farmers to undertake conservation actions on their farms.

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The most recent iteration of this is the nature repair market in Australia.

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And so there's 2 assumptions on decision making that are embedded in these programs. One focus is on actors.

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the other focus is on structures.

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So for actors, the assumption is that farmers are rational utility maximizers who weigh expected costs and benefits across a range of choices, typically with perfect or imperfect knowledge or near perfect knowledge.

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And so farmers, you know, by this logic will select conservation options that maximize their utility, based on their underlying preferences, which are well-defined and stable over time.

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That's assumption one. The structural assumption

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is that social interactions, norms and other social and institutional structures will help shape farmers decisions for conservation. So if we take these perspectives together.

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I'll get to the relational in a tick. If we take these perspectives together, we see that on farm conservation policies and programs are being developed which center on logics of economic rationalism primarily through government creating market incentives for farmers to undertake conservation.

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The problem is, though, that we have persistent issues with recruitment and retention of farmers into these programs. So they are not actually participating. They are not responding to them in the ways that we would hope.

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and I suspect part of the reason is that we have a poor grasp of how and why farmers make decisions to do conservation. This is also demonstrated in in

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research, you know, for example, Procopy and others

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did a review of 55 studies across 25 years recently that showed that there's inconclusive data on which factors determine. farmers reasons

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for adopting best management practices.

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and so financial incentives seem to have this unclear effect on on farmer engagement.

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Something's a mess. and these factors are not giving us great insights into how to intervene in these agricultural systems, to produce better environmental outcomes.

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So what I'm doing is looking to research, that looking to research on how and why farmers?

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Looking to research that reveals sorry the performative and experiential aspects of farming which are critical to understanding.

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How farmers conduct agriculture.

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So these positions hold that farming does not occur in already established structures founded on set principles, logical rules and rational axioms.

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Instead, we're understanding farming as a as a diverse set of practices which is built through the extension of networks and assemblages of humans and non-human actants.

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And so building on these insights, I aim to focus my attention on the processes, experiences, and relations of farmers, conservation decision making.

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So to do this. I'm drawing on new materialist principles, including assemblage theory and actor network theory.

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so just quickly with the research itself, I undertook on farm walking interviews with 28 farming families. totaling 42 participants in Southern New South Wales and the Act.

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And so these interviews were analyzed with by drawing on principles of assemblage theory, as I mentioned. aiming to assemble the decisions made for on farm conservation.

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and what I found was that emotion and embodied experience along with social, ecological embeddedness are crucial to how these decisions occurred.

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And I'll just start with the emotional experiences.

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So this mixed livestock farmer was talking about their process of decision making on how to manage ground, cover, and soil on their farm.

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The farmer recalls a severe drought they experienced in 1,982. I'm just going to move my face, because that's

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yeah. There we go.

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something like that.

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There we go!

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 So they recall the severe drought that they experienced in 1982

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as a turning point in how they valued and managed on farm biodiversity.

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And so I'll just read out this quote for you from them. It was the shock and shame of how the place looked in 1,982 that really set me on the path of looking for some other ways of doing things.

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So we see that the experience of shock and shame carried through their memory serves as a past. The farmer does not want to return to

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the motion is intertwined with the decision-making process on how to manage ground, cover, and soil on the farm.

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The strategic decision, is informed by their emotional relationships with both the past and the future.

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which sort of contrasts with them, going through the pros and cons of changing ground cover strategies and selecting the most appropriate strategy from that. It's actually the intense visceral experience that they had that triggered change.

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So next is the embodied finding. And this is where we see that actually being out in the paddocks out on the property. trying something first and then deciding on if it's worth continuing later

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shapes, how farmers make conservation decisions. So these are irrigated, mixed cropping and livestock farmers, and they talked me through their decision on how to re-vegetate paddocks on their farm.

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The strategic decision was made. All right. We want to re-vegetate paddocks, but they just weren't quite sure how.

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And so with some funding and handholding from a local organization, maybe a green army was helping. I don't know

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of us.

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No, I don't think they did, but it actually was with blanket. They tried out direct seeding native shrubs and trees into a paddock.

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They weren't sure what to expect, but a confluence of interactions led to the farmers perceiving that the direct seating event was a success.

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So these interactions include having a program to help fund the direct seating a trusted and eager local and Rm. Officer to, you know, help them through the process.

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and also just the high rainfall year which led to good early growth from the seeds.

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They also undertook other vegetation practices, including tube stock planting Tube stock.

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but they decided that that that wasn't suited to their landscape. It just required too much water, too much labor to do so. This quote from them kind of captures the process of of their decision.

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For us the direct seeding event was a bit of a Rubicon.

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because then all of a sudden, we thought, With the equipment we have, we won't miss this bit or that bit.

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And finally there was this sort of light bulb moment. Actually, I think it's an improvement for everybody to lock it up and return it to trees.

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so I'll skip through this last finding

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But I'll just wrap it up here.

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So if we pick under the hood of farmers decisions, we see that there is a couple of processes going on.

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One is that farmers decisions to do. Conservation is not solely the result of structural factors or purely rational or boundedly rational decision making.

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Instead, it's conservation. Decisions are emerging from the experiences of the farmers that incorporate some of these factors whilst also being laid with emotions.

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they're often embodied. and they are emerging, you know, from emerging practices in the fields and there. And there's embedded dimensions as well.

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So instead, I'm saying that decisions are located in the complex inter involvement of human and non-human actors which together form an effective decision assemblage

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and helps produce what we call these these structures.

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And so just to finish.

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I think if, as society, we're going to ask farmers to perform these dual purposes, feed us cheaply whilst regenerating the environment.

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the first thing we need to do is appreciate the challenge of this. The second is to understand how farmers actually make effective decisions in this space.

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And then, third is to with this knowledge, develop policies, programs and other supports that recognize value and leverage, how farmers make decisions for conservation.

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and we'll leave it there. Thank you.

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I think we doing, okay, so

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yeah, please, just keep making note of your questions for each presenter

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as, we will

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 so next coming up, Marco, are burial

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in search for profit and environmental protection, a possible combination. the fishing sector in the

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thank you very much. All my presentation of being concentrated today, one after another.

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So

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why it doesn't go.

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The

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okay.

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So the fishing sector in Canada and Quebec, is in particular in the rural area. It's okay in the rural region of Eastern Quebec, where fishing plays a fundamental role both for for economically and from a social cultural point of view.

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Okay.

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okay?

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And

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the fishing sector in Quebec and more in general in Canada is represented by small fishing enterprises of family business, with an average of 3 or 4 employees and the social relations. within the family, the community

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play a fundamental role in the dynamics

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and structuring of the sector.

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It means that there's a lot of social equation. So they leave where they do business. And so this affects a lot. The experience of work

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in Canada and in particular, in Quebec. Fishing today is a consolidated sector, not very big on the total of the economy, but traditional and consideration, and consolidated. However, it is a sector, that is, as I just sector in the natural resources domain is undergoing a very strong transformation due to several factors. Of course, climate

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and environmental changes the evolution of work

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from an economic, social, and political, but also technological and the organizational perspective. First of all, as far as the relationship to work. but also working rhythms. Work, life balance. Because if in the past everything was

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in the domestic fear sphere, everything was attributed to the woman. Today the women of fishermen. They don't want this anymore. And so there is a change. There are changes also in the domestic sphere which have an impact

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in the in the Enterprise and in the labor.

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And this was traditionally a male job, which is

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very, very, very slowly changing. very slowly, is it clear?

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I wrote a paper on this that, and it's it's kind of

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interesting to see how this still is a made profession.

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and professional practices in this sector are very strongly interdependent to the to nature. And today we will see how this relationship to nature might be

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complex and sometimes a also contradictory. And of course there's the demographic challenge. This is a profession with a medium, an average age of 55.

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And when I say profession, as I will tell you. As I will tell you, I focus on

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Captain Owners. So Captain Fishermen, who were also owners of their small boat.

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So the focus in this presentation

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is about environmental discourses of captain owners

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and their ecological, environmental and professional practices.

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Very quickly the theoretical frame I adopted in this research and in other research I did on fishing, and more in general, on natural resources, is the Cas the sociological systems.

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One of the main author bringing out this perspective is a as your Ostrom.

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and I go very quickly because I don't have the time otherwise to present the results, but has holidays and colleagues underline the social ecological problems that fishing is experienced are both systemic and management problems. So it is important to see this as structural systemic elements. As a

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Erez agmoni, all from underlines the resource units. So the fish, the users. the resource system, governance. These are all elements, natural and social and political, that are connected one to each other. So it's important to, but also challenging to see them together as a 1, one.

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an interacting thing. And sometimes we see the social, the the economical, and the environment. But the challenge is to see this at the same time. Of course, it's not an easy thing.

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conceptual frame, but I will do. I will skip this. It's the environmental attitudes and environmental behavior. One thing which is important to

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to say is that environmental attitudes, of course, as you can imagine, is not enough.

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Of course, there's something more that is needed to go towards environmental behaviors. And so that's the one of the things we will try to attempt. Through our empirical analysis

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to which I want to go otherwise.

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but maybe just concerning behavior that

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2 types of behaviors that we observed, and the Literature review observed one, is the purpose-oriented behavior based on the intention of the action, and the other one is the result, and sometimes the the result is the weak part one

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of of the issue.

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So the methodology. This is a research that I conducted

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between 2,017 and 2,019. We did 40 in death interviews with Captain Owners, 25 with their spouses when they had the spouses that was involved

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in the, in the firm, in the enterprise, and children that when they were involved in the enterprises, 20 children on 40 were involved in the enterprises, and this is because it's a family business in a way

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not very quickly otherwise. so the first point of the analysis

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and is that it's about the representation of nature and profession. The relationship with nature is, of course, the first element that they put forward.

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In the fishing. Profession is very important nature is a fundamental element of their profession and ethos.

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Captain, owners also attribute to themselves a certain responsibility towards nature in the past, but also in the present and future. however, there are contradiction in this respect. For instance, Captain owners seem to value phonem and flora when it's compatible with their activity. For example, the seals, the ways. There has been a big

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problem with the ways in Quebec. They were trapped in the nets of of fishing, and they underestimated the problem of said that that was not their problem, and that there was sometimes someone said that it was the fault of the whale. So the the discourses are pretty ambiguous when we go on that on when we touch the economic activity.

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So

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very important thing is that captain owners.

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they really want to give a good impression of themselves and of their work, because you have to know that in Canada there's still a moratorium on cottage that's going on in 30 years. And this shocked was a very big problem for the industry and for local communities. There are local communities that are still under stress after 30 years, and the moratorium is still on

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in part. This allowed other species

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to develop like the streams! The crap, but has been a very important thing in the professional.

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So nature is completely identified by captain owners with the fish resource. So that's the part that that's a instrument instrumental, because the commercial element and the entrepreneurial dimension are central to this profession, and so

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the natural element, the fish appears intrinsically linked to the commercial value. So we defend, we protect the environment because we have to protect the fish. And so our activity.

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So there's an interconnection with nature. There is a form of professional

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enhancement that focuses on the rhetoric of the freedom of working at sea. But at the same time

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there is all. As soon as you talk to them there is all the thing of restrictions.

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How this freedom in reality is limited, because there is the regulation, etc., etc.

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So

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they have a direct experience of nature, and this has an impact on their behaviors, although it is crucial to go beyond professional users.

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This closeness to nature that captain owners manifest

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Cannot be denied, and this proximity to nature makes them witness the changes.

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and of course the very changes. The very first thing that they see is pollution in the C, so they see that when they

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bring up the nets there's full of plastic microplastic and stuff in the net

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oops.

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And so this experience of pollution is direct, but once again is very connected to the product, to the fish.

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and, for example, they say we cannot sell polluted fish, so

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they are very worried about the superficial element of environment

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because they want to protect their activity. and nothing is bad. But it is just a first level of analysis.

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But then there's not just pollution. and one thing is quantity.

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since

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The the moratorium on caused fish was an issue of quantity.

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There was rarity in the species. And the same thing is happening in other species like the shrimp since 2,010, the shrimp was a new

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activity that replaced card.

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And yeah, I have 1 min And now it's happening to shrimp as well. So the problem is the quantity they are gathering much less quantity in the last 1012 years.

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And we, I have another research with biologists on that issue.

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And then

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this is a a real problem on their activity to to go on because they cannot make profit. And another element.

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And this has an impact. Yes, on yeah, also on their activity. And the fact that they can sell fish is the quality

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because of environmental changes like oxygenization of waters or predatory species that are coming back like the code. They, the fish they are fishing is small.

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And this is a problem on the environment, because small fish do not reproduce them. But it also has an impact on their economic activity, because, people don't want small fishes and they pay less for small fishes. And so these this they understand it because, as a direct impact on their activity. So to conclude, let's say that they understand environment.

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But they have a two-speed awareness of this environment. And there is a form of commodification of nature, so the view and relationship with nature is very instrumental, and clearly recalls

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a strong market value when they understand that they are ready to put and act some activities. And these activities can be

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compulsory on non-compulsory.

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And this is the last slide. what I want to say that it's that overall. Fishermen seem to recognize the need for and the importance of some protection and conservation measures.

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But there is a structural distrust in the institutions.

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and they tend always to give the fault to others other to other species. So one species against the other, or all together to the institutions, because, of course, the Ministry of fishing in Canada it's Federal. They have to put

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limit, and very often these limits are nonsense, and they also impose some rules that are not always consequent with the reality of the profession, and this generates a lot of frustration. And this distrust, in part, as an impact on the

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fact that they respect the rules, and they because they contest

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the power of the ministry in all this. So it's always important to see the nature governance and then the local reality.

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I'm over in

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the thank you. I feel like a police officer. Not not a nice feeling. Not that they are bad. But yeah.

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yeah. okay. So our last presentation before we get into the discussion. it's coming from or in

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the future of work transitioning to sustainable practices in a time of emergency.

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Thank you.  sorry.

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Just playing around with the first. So I got to work. Awesome. Cy, Dakota! Hello! Everyone

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again very excited to be here, and this has been a fantastic session. I've really enjoyed all of the talk so far. It's definitely Oh, it's definitely given me a lot to think about. So I'm I'm really excited to talk to you. Today. I'm going to be talking about apprenticeships within the

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New Zealand construction sector around. climate change and sustainability. And what does that look like on the shop floor? Essentially, when it comes to training and education and space.

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 whoopsy! There we go.

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I first. I just want to give you a little bit of context. So within, within New Zealand the Government has. it has put a lot around the Paris accord. So again, we've made a commitment to reduce our carbon emissions within the sector.

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and

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part of that has been part of a disconnect with a lot of the policy landscape within New Zealand, especially around the construction sector, has been.

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we've set relatively ambitious targets for the performance of buildings. but that has not filtered down to what does it actually mean for the construction sector in terms of skills and education? But the challenge is monumental. So within New Zealand our new residential buildings are met 7 to 10 times more greenhouse gas emissions than we need them to in order to reach our 1.5 degree target.

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I was talking to some of our material scientists the other day, and this is kind of sobering in terms of our budget, our carbon budget for the built environment to 2,050.

317
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We're already feeling like we've already blown past that budget. So this gives you an idea of the the challenge and the emergency that we are facing in order for us to be able to

318
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kind of reach this kind of agreement with the Paris accord. Because we're we're really, really struggling at the moment. But essentially, we need to reduce 60 to 3% of the total impact

319
01:00:49.040 --> 01:01:07.949
of our of our buildings, and that's from and body carbon so embody carbon is the extraction, the processing, the transportation of materials to a site. And the operational carbon is, if you think of the light, the heat, everything that you need to run a building, basically.

320
01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:19.170
So what what were we doing in this space. So we were really interested in the discover New Zealand government. It's a lot of targets around the performance of buildings.

321
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:25.830
I hadn't seen anything around the skills and educational requirements for the sector in order for them to reach those targets.

322
01:01:26.030 --> 01:01:40.320
So we were really interested in what is what is the actual expertise. So you knowledge your skills and your competencies that are going to be required to deliver a 0 carbon and low carbon. What if you want to call it more sustainable buildings within the sector?

323
01:01:40.600 --> 01:01:46.199
Our second question was, Do does the building sector especially apprentices?

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01:01:46.230 --> 01:02:04.420
Have this existing expertise already, or have access to this existing expertise. What are the current training programs in the sector? What do we know about sustainability within the sector? So we did a couple of things. So first off we did a systematic review which was collecting all the international evidence around

325
01:02:04.420 --> 01:02:18.160
Mit, Ctl. And training programs and schemes from like Canada, the Uk Islands. more countries in Europe, Australia, in terms of like, what are the kind of key considerations for developing skills? What are some ways that New Zealand could potentially kind of look at 150

326
01:02:18.500 --> 01:02:41.140
within a nationwide survey which I'm not going to talk about too much. But the Tldr of that is, the construction sector was crying out for education, trading in the space, but had no idea where to go or what or what any of this means. So again, it was definitely an episode for this education. But there's no areas for them. In order to be able to find this kind of information.

327
01:02:41.180 --> 01:02:59.340
Then we did a series of semi-structured interviews that we're continuing on with. And basically what we've done with the with our interviews is taken. The evidence from the systematic review that we did, which was a combination of

328
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types of skills, key activities.

329
01:03:02.530 --> 01:03:10.029
educational areas that other countries that identified as being really crucial for the development of a more sustainable workforce.

330
01:03:10.230 --> 01:03:31.999
And essentially we tested that out with the sector. So it's a little bit hard to see. But if you are, can let me know, and I'm more than happy to send it to you. But we developed these what we call and competency profiles for the construction sector, which was an outline of all the key activities and all of the areas of skill that we would need to develop in order to deliver lower-carbon buildings.

331
01:03:32.300 --> 01:03:42.579
and what we wanted to do is to take those out and talk to apprentices, talk to recently qualified trades, people. So from builders, architects, engineers.

332
01:03:42.660 --> 01:03:52.790
electricians, plumbers, and have a conversation around. What? What were these within your kind of workflow? Do you see as available to you in terms of training?

333
01:03:52.870 --> 01:04:01.280
What areas do you think are most important in terms of where you need upskill first? So we're trying to get a sense of if this is going to be industry lead?

334
01:04:01.290 --> 01:04:06.750
What are the specific areas that they think they need to upscale in first? What are the challenges? What are the constraints?

335
01:04:09.410 --> 01:04:27.279
What was really interesting is that I think across occupations. Everybody was very positive in terms of what the key activities were. They were like, yeah, we absolutely need to do more and waste. We need to know more about 0 carbon materials. We need to know more about how to produce these buildings within our within our sector.

336
01:04:27.580 --> 01:04:37.800
And most of the conversations were more about. Yeah, these are fantastic. We, we agree with these. This is a very high level document. But how do we actually implement these?

337
01:04:37.940 --> 01:04:45.000
What is the actual training and infrastructural needs that we will require in order to be able to deliver buildings of this nature?

338
01:04:47.830 --> 01:04:54.969
So some of the kind of interesting findings so far, when it comes to a builder's perspective on these kind of competency profiles is

339
01:04:55.410 --> 01:05:02.969
the majority, or nearly all builders pointed to waste minimization and using sustainable products. So

340
01:05:03.990 --> 01:05:15.080
it was interesting in that a lot of the builders we spoke to. They talked about it from like A more of like the head tips and tricks to be able to reduce their waste. They were incorporating into their own practice.

341
01:05:15.160 --> 01:05:24.129
and apprentices in particular spoke about this because they would describe it as they do all the shit jobs on site, which is primarily handling waste.

342
01:05:24.150 --> 01:05:39.120
so sweeping up sorting materials, putting that into the skip, and it resonated with them. Because it's like what's what they do all the time, anyway. So for them, if they were going to upskill in a specific area, and they can see that a key activity for

343
01:05:39.120 --> 01:05:57.669
becoming more sustainable on site is waste management for them was like, okay, this makes a lot of sense. We can do this. This doesn't change too much of your practice. The more experienced builders had a slightly different slant on this and that they gravitated towards waste minimization because it doesn't impact their current building practice.

344
01:05:57.730 --> 01:06:18.589
So it doesn't impact the types of materials that they use as potentially or the types of buildings that they're producing, they can still build the same buildings as just more are we to see to change a couple things about how we recycle material. So it felt a lot more doable, a lot more achievable tactile in terms of what they could achieve.

345
01:06:19.980 --> 01:06:22.219
The other one. And this was

346
01:06:22.570 --> 01:06:35.909
this I found quite challenging as a researcher talking about building science principles. So first off, I'm not a builder. I don't have that kind of educational background. But I'm talking to 1819 year olds

347
01:06:36.100 --> 01:06:42.569
about building science because they haven't had an opportunity within their training so far to learn about

348
01:06:42.760 --> 01:06:51.900
not so much the what and the why, so not so much in terms of what and how sorry, in terms of how to construct something. But they don't get in a a good grasp in the why.

349
01:06:52.270 --> 01:07:03.069
So the more experienced builders I talked to. So they've just recently finished their qualifications. They've just started their own business. We're more interested in the why. And we're not talking about

350
01:07:03.330 --> 01:07:21.799
anything specific to 0 carbon or sustainability. This is just building performance. This is just how a building can perform around thermal bridging, which is how heat can go from 1 point to another. If you think about some materials are more conducive or more conductive of heat than others.

351
01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:34.129
So, understanding within within a building what materials can push heat out of a building, and then bring cold air into a building or things like that, insulation values which was just like, how much insulation do you have in the wall?

352
01:07:34.740 --> 01:07:47.280
This wasn't something taught until they are a little bit further on, but they recognize that this is really important for us to know more of, because if we want to address climate change, we need to produce better quality buildings. Essentially.

353
01:07:47.780 --> 01:07:57.569
the more the better our buildings perform, the less operational carbon that you would need, and that you would reduce, based on just having a bit, a bit of performed building.

354
01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:02.650
some of the kind of more general things that we talked about.

355
01:08:02.770 --> 01:08:17.990
and it kind of goes back to this knowledge of all this kind of issue, with not needing to know the why of particular tasks. And so I, talking to apprentices specifically in terms of what they're focused on. They're focused on developing their craft.

356
01:08:18.450 --> 01:08:24.409
So a lot about developing their craft as an apprentice is about the very physical tasks on site.

357
01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:29.160
So their boss really, in a lot of cases, their boss, their owner, the trainer.

358
01:08:29.210 --> 01:08:33.679
isn't really interested in trying to describe why you do things in a particular way.

359
01:08:33.750 --> 01:08:59.590
You do things based on essentially what I've told you. So you don't. You don't understand the theory or the nuances that why you need to do it, for you need to install this. This is how you install it, and a lot of the challenges around trying to reduce our carbon emissions is around. The why is, why do we have to build? And with certain techniques or sooner behaviors, in order to reduce our missions and a big challenge for apprentices is

360
01:09:00.220 --> 01:09:14.589
is having somebody on site who is actually invest in their training. So even beyond trying to learn 0 garbage skills, there's and sustainable skills. There's a massive challenge in just finding somebody who is interested in your training and development.

361
01:09:14.770 --> 01:09:24.839
I've heard the range from apprentices who are very good relationships with their owners, the the owning of the owner of the company versus stories, where

362
01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:29.329
you'd have owners who would throw hammers at apprentices and

363
01:09:29.430 --> 01:09:35.839
make them do all the the crappy jobs and never worry about training or anything like that. It's a huge gamin in terms of

364
01:09:35.870 --> 01:09:40.630
having a way of actually being able to learn anything on site, which is a real challenge in the sector.

365
01:09:41.290 --> 01:09:50.890
The other thing that I found interesting and this is across your building aren't as yeah more experienced builders and even your apprentices. They were worried about the cost.

366
01:09:51.350 --> 01:10:00.780
But this all sounds great and practiced. But what does this mean in terms of what are the cost implications of anything that we might do with these competencies? How do we pay for it?

367
01:10:01.320 --> 01:10:07.150
As the constant refrain is, how do we go about paying for this? What is the structure? Thanks. What is the structure around?

368
01:10:07.480 --> 01:10:14.040
How we can kind of support ourselves? We don't have the infrastructure in place to be able to introduce these competencies.

369
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:20.220
 The other thing, too, is

370
01:10:22.670 --> 01:10:35.179
Maybe I'll I'll I'll do this one. I'll skip the next one. So the other thing to, I think, one of the kind of more general, actually, we'll just skip to. We're worried that I'm running out of time. Let's get more towards the end, in terms of some of the insights.

371
01:10:35.480 --> 01:10:36.810
something.

372
01:10:36.830 --> 01:10:42.280
Why, I guess some of the kind of interesting things they were found is that with the construction sites

373
01:10:42.790 --> 01:10:47.929
they represent a multitude of meanings across, like very different professional occupational groups.

374
01:10:47.990 --> 01:10:55.379
so that there's a lot of definition around their work in terms of the context, the site. So when you think about

375
01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:57.150
apprentices.

376
01:10:57.660 --> 01:11:03.210
their main job on site when they first started around that waste management, so a lot of their work is

377
01:11:03.290 --> 01:11:05.470
is very tactile in that nature.

378
01:11:05.480 --> 01:11:12.980
So that's kind of what they kind of focus on. That waste management resonates with apprentices, because it already pre-exists within the current practice.

379
01:11:13.280 --> 01:11:14.930
But then there's also

380
01:11:15.280 --> 01:11:20.860
a number of kind of infrastructural constraints with that, because builders will talk about

381
01:11:20.900 --> 01:11:26.310
I in terms of their knowledge in terms of what they want to focus well on what sustainability is.

382
01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:37.340
They only build what they've been given in terms of the building plan. So it's the architect's job to make things more sustainable. It's the procure. Its job is to make things more sustainable in terms of the types of materials.

383
01:11:37.570 --> 01:11:43.709
So there's a number of different professions interrelating and complicating the structure in terms of training and education

384
01:11:44.420 --> 01:11:59.860
in terms of kind. Of what what we're doing is we're going to continually rework these kind of competency profiles to maybe make them a little bit more targeted. So we were throwing all the competencies at everyone and seeing which would stick. So we're trying to figure out a way that we can structure it. So

385
01:12:00.220 --> 01:12:11.919
you can. If you're an apprentice, you focus on these areas, and then maybe it translates into a more structured kind of system as you go forward. And then we're also looking at within brains as kind of developing

386
01:12:12.030 --> 01:12:15.459
and piloting a mentorship scheme with occupations.

387
01:12:15.670 --> 01:12:26.319
So, for example, with apprentices who don't have a structure of training in the sector around sustainability. We have sustainability champions in the sector who can provide

388
01:12:26.930 --> 01:12:31.620
another role, model or mentor to be able to kind of help training in that particular space.

389
01:12:33.290 --> 01:12:37.070
So yeah, again, thank you very much for having me. And if you want to have a yard

390
01:12:37.110 --> 01:12:41.020
later on. So my stuff here, we more than have you have a chef?

391
01:12:45.110 --> 01:12:51.460
Thank you. Can I ask all the presenters, perhaps, to sit here so that it makes it easy when we pose some questions.

392
01:12:51.730 --> 01:12:55.710
 it's because I think we have still a little bit more

393
01:12:55.900 --> 01:13:09.359
time to. Not much. But yeah. So if you could all see, so do any questions to the presenters. I think within that you are also allowed to ask each other any questions or comments. So

394
01:13:18.310 --> 01:13:20.400
one of the most people on the

395
01:13:21.340 --> 01:13:22.400
I think it's

396
01:13:23.940 --> 01:13:25.150
you see anything

397
01:13:36.630 --> 01:13:38.630
which Brazilian.

398
01:13:38.710 --> 01:13:41.649
Okay, no, it's just

399
01:13:42.990 --> 01:13:50.300
okay, thank you. Yeah. So we don't have to worry about Zoom. I think it's mostly us here in this place. So go ahead

400
01:13:50.400 --> 01:14:05.069
and thank you, for I was. Thank you, everyone for your presentation, and I guess my question is mainly for the second presenter. But maybe everyone can answer, and I hope it will not be a bit like read from the topic.

401
01:14:05.070 --> 01:14:24.049
because my question is, do you think the grim jobs or the policy support towards this green jobs? mandate target to the young people? Because I think maybe some middle aged or senior-aged workers will lose their jobs during this kind of

402
01:14:24.050 --> 01:14:45.810
transition, where the energy, transition or other traditional industry does tree, because most people especially who work in a traditional and sustainable industry may lose some jobs, and maybe they will need some new skills to find out to get employed.

403
01:14:45.830 --> 01:15:01.490
So I think there may be also an important program for just transition, and also to reduce the opposite from the like and T movements, or the people are used to working at the industries.

404
01:15:10.300 --> 01:15:11.950
The

405
01:15:12.290 --> 01:15:31.029
is, do you think the grim jobs the policy support towards this grim jobs should take it young people? Or should it also concern about the seed media, middle age or senior workers?

406
01:15:31.370 --> 01:15:33.599
What if it is

407
01:15:34.400 --> 01:15:36.749
so? I think these are the

408
01:15:46.140 --> 01:15:50.830
park for you from Kil to university. I don't know if there's anyone online with parents, but

409
01:15:51.040 --> 01:15:54.070
generally, I

410
01:15:54.090 --> 01:16:12.589
what I what I see especially highlighted by the last presentation is that there's this intergenerational kind of schism going on in a lot of these jobs, whether it's between fishermen and apprentices, or between those people whose jobs are being relabeled as green jobs in a certain context.

411
01:16:12.860 --> 01:16:20.790
And this generational change, I wonder? You know, obviously, in a family context, you'd think that it would be obvious to pass on

412
01:16:20.980 --> 01:16:24.900
healthy, functioning, sustainable job to your children.

413
01:16:25.330 --> 01:16:39.080
but a lot of the discussions in this intergenerational shift between, like the boomers to the millennials and whatnot. I don't want to talk about it too much, but it's shown it's not as simple as that.

414
01:16:39.670 --> 01:16:45.310
even if it's within the family there is, there is jealousy. There is concern that

415
01:16:45.450 --> 01:16:48.349
young people will be

416
01:16:48.710 --> 01:17:00.000
what they are doing will be valued differently because it's sustainable as opposed to craft and expertise or or knowledge that the previous generation had.

417
01:17:00.060 --> 01:17:08.580
and that this is somehow unfair. And there's this, maybe sabotage or self-sabotage going on to prevent the next generation

418
01:17:09.000 --> 01:17:10.029
able to

419
01:17:10.090 --> 01:17:19.740
to valorize these type of jobs. And so, especially in the instruction sector, I can see, like. you know, you're just 19 years old.

420
01:17:19.940 --> 01:17:36.850
And and suddenly your job is being relabeled as as is valuable, and I'm 50 years old, and I've spent 30 years doing this, and I know better. So. I don't want to tell you why, because that's going to actually elevate what you're doing. You'll be able to say that to your customers that you are

421
01:17:36.930 --> 01:17:38.510
proving the comfort

422
01:17:38.850 --> 01:17:41.229
environmental performance of the house.

423
01:17:41.350 --> 01:17:47.109
So I wonder if you guys can maybe all in your own way, collectively address this intergenerational

424
01:17:47.140 --> 01:17:48.739
issue? Thank you.

425
01:17:50.200 --> 01:17:51.000
Okay.

426
01:17:54.590 --> 01:18:16.389
yes, we have 2 questions, short ones, maybe one mostly for for you. a a, are you taking into account the type differentials to understand the conservative practices. decisions to to are you taking into account the differentials are

427
01:18:16.390 --> 01:18:24.810
of production types of projection types of product and especially organic, maybe milk.

428
01:18:24.860 --> 01:18:27.920
if it's a milk or

429
01:18:28.180 --> 01:18:33.639
food. And I was wondering if it's on your

430
01:18:34.180 --> 01:18:44.740
yeah. So in for Macro. Yeah.

431
01:18:44.830 --> 01:18:55.659
 is it possible to relate what they are doing? The behavior, the behavior that you are studying to relate that to the

432
01:18:55.750 --> 01:19:23.090
the the cultural activities, marginal cultural activities in rural areas. May. Maybe I, I I've done a research in Canada on on that. So to to to to to understand how all the outdoor and cultural activities are associated. And I I was I was. One of the. The result is that in rural areas

433
01:19:23.090 --> 01:19:30.490
there are many people that are doing consumptive activities like fishing

434
01:19:30.740 --> 01:20:00.640
as well as motorized activities. you know, like snow mobileing during the winter or jets sky sky and during the the the. So it's not. It's not exactly a link to to the your captains, but but more generally how it is related to to the cultural wha ways to cultural activities that they are doing their lifestyles. You know.

435
01:20:02.250 --> 01:20:06.870
he. it was that this is the

436
01:20:08.530 --> 01:20:09.620
okay.

437
01:20:10.940 --> 01:20:13.540
You know that I?

438
01:20:16.060 --> 01:20:16.890
Yeah.

439
01:20:18.960 --> 01:20:25.790
So the issue of international change. I think it is a very crucial element

440
01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:33.690
at a very superficial level. It seems to emerge as an issue. But then, if we.

441
01:20:34.060 --> 01:20:38.620
if we go deeper, we see that these are representations.

442
01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:56.870
In fact, I could just very quickly go on that slide. But I I had a slide where I define these environmental attitudes and behavior, especially the attitudes like environmental, sincere oprontonism.

443
01:20:57.370 --> 01:21:10.349
because it's opportunistic. But at the point of view. It's sincere, but it's always the same narrative storytelling. They always say I want to protect

444
01:21:10.470 --> 01:21:19.660
the resource for my children to fish, but and they deny. Both generation deny the predatory.

445
01:21:20.270 --> 01:21:26.549
and the predator is always the other one. So for the older

446
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:36.829
it's those who fish out of fishing, and sometimes the first nations, because they think that the first nations have less regulations. And so

447
01:21:37.170 --> 01:21:39.940
and for the youngers

448
01:21:40.400 --> 01:21:45.909
it's the parents, the older. So it's very stereotype.

449
01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:49.030
And but in the end I think, yeah.

450
01:21:49.140 --> 01:22:07.720
a little bit. The behaviors evolved because they don't throw the can it be out? The the beer can't in the water, as they maybe did in the past, but still they do other things. For example, they go faster than their parents.

451
01:22:07.820 --> 01:22:10.429
and going faster means more

452
01:22:11.160 --> 01:22:14.200
Hoyle. And so it's ambiguous.

453
01:22:14.250 --> 01:22:21.529
Shall I give the word to the others, and maybe then answer it to Stefan. Question, or, okay.

454
01:22:21.730 --> 01:22:45.640
I I think I understand what you mean. the connection between the activity of fishing, which, in my case, what I study is a commercial activity. It's not the outdoor fishing. It's a commercial and free time, activity, and so on. Yeah, so there's a thing to say is that

455
01:22:45.740 --> 01:22:49.030
fishing is still important, but it losses.

456
01:22:49.130 --> 01:23:05.039
It lost a bit of its cultural element. It means that it's not as it was in the past, connected to patrimonial and free time. For example, until 30 years ago, 30 years ago, stopped.

457
01:23:05.060 --> 01:23:17.219
They stopped in the village of a Rivier or Anna, near Gespee region. They stopped to have the party of fishing like the celebration with eating all together. They stopped.

458
01:23:17.230 --> 01:23:18.930
and they say that

459
01:23:19.130 --> 01:23:39.129
there's nobody who won't take care of it, because before the work the women but today, so the guilty of the women today the women work, and so they have no time to take care of this. So let's say that more and more the fishing activities has been commodified

460
01:23:39.210 --> 01:23:41.850
and all the cultural elements.

461
01:23:41.860 --> 01:23:49.770
So I don't know if I answer to your question, but that one main issue for me the paternalization is less evident.

462
01:23:49.860 --> 01:24:09.000
And yeah, they sometimes they do this discourses about a sustainable fishing, and then they go every morning with this. No, or they do the in the summer the same thing with the boat. So let's say that nature they leave nature. The the activity are always

463
01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:14.529
connected to nature and those who, when they told us that when they talk about

464
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:21.649
that time on the boat, they see first superficially, they see fishing as freedom.

465
01:24:21.660 --> 01:24:34.900
But then the discourse on the regulations, and all the stuff they have on them as an imposition. Come, but let's say that they always try to reproduce this relationship with nature also in their free time.

466
01:24:37.530 --> 01:24:38.300
Yeah.

467
01:24:43.270 --> 01:24:45.919
Hello. Hello. Okay. Yeah.

468
01:24:46.040 --> 01:24:52.419
Schism between young and old. It's what I think about the entire time. When I work in the construction sector, it's something that I

469
01:24:52.450 --> 01:25:03.860
you cannot get it away from in terms of how the education is structured so very much. It is. Your apprentice only has that relationship with that business on it.

470
01:25:04.010 --> 01:25:11.510
There is the other training. Mechanisms of mechanisms around them are purely for verification or accreditation.

471
01:25:12.320 --> 01:25:22.289
So there's if that's if you've got, and I often hear reference to the kind of old heads and the sector. And I I'm told you're not going to convince those people about climate change.

472
01:25:22.540 --> 01:25:26.370
You're not going to be able to manage to change that kind of behavior. So in terms of

473
01:25:26.700 --> 01:25:33.840
where I think and and the context of the construction sector. It's about creating disruptors or intermediaries

474
01:25:33.880 --> 01:25:44.730
where apprentices can have alternate voices or alternate training paths where they can talk to somebody who actually cares about sustainability and climate change in the sector, and there are people out there but

475
01:25:45.130 --> 01:26:02.350
an apprentice. You don't really have a choice when it comes to you. You more interested in finding a job, I mean, that's your first and foremost you want to be. Say, if you want appointments you want to wage, and you often don't know what poor practices until you're at the other side. So a lot of apprentices I've talked to

476
01:26:02.490 --> 01:26:18.539
mentioned that once they're qualified, they only then realize how poor those working conditions were, and how unprepared they were for the sector. Because, again, you don't know if you don't have a network that you can ask questions of or talk to. Then you're not aware of how you kind of work

477
01:26:18.690 --> 01:26:29.430
situation can be quite damaging. So yeah, I think that's absolutely something that plays an online because it's just how education is structured within the New Zealand construction context. And

478
01:26:29.770 --> 01:26:44.430
so I guess in my mind is trying to create a I mean sorry me work, or finding those champions in the sector, and sustainability provides alternate training paths for young people in the space again, it might not change

479
01:26:44.490 --> 01:26:47.070
the actual practice on the sites.

480
01:26:47.120 --> 01:27:00.330
but once they've got to the point where they are qualified, and they are in a position to know what they are in business. So when they've got a little bit more autonomy in the stuff that they can do, then there's opportunities for that education to kind of be a fruit in the space.

481
01:27:01.580 --> 01:27:03.990
Partly that answered your question.

482
01:27:10.760 --> 01:27:19.949
Yeah. Well, specifically to the youth question, because the program and and intergeneration. All the programs are specifically youth oriented. There's

483
01:27:19.970 --> 01:27:34.819
plenty of people that come to them. And yeah, want to want to participate. And then, aunt, within the age bracket and given, you know. Go go try work for the doll, or if they're lucky, they might become a supervisor. So

484
01:27:34.850 --> 01:27:45.679
there's there's that exclusion factor that doesn't even come into it. By the time we've started with the programs. But then, within the programs there's a there's a light-hearted, begrudging

485
01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:47.669
form of motivation.

486
01:27:48.110 --> 01:28:12.630
We've inherited the problems of the past from your the older generation, and now we've got a bloody well going down there and fix them. And they just like, Okay, yeah, and so on that they'll they'll discuss that amongst the team amongst themselves. but then they're also forming allegiances. So there's this constant. There's examples would be with you know, landholders

487
01:28:12.630 --> 01:28:20.200
who are generally elderly land cared on public lands. So volunteers retirees.

488
01:28:20.200 --> 01:28:39.100
So they regularly encountering elderly people within their local community, so they might not never have met, and and forming those into generational alliance. So this yeah, this sort of but grudging kind of thing on the one hand, and then but you're the you're the good old people. You're the nice ones.

489
01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:51.829
okay. On the question of the intergenerational dimension.

490
01:28:51.990 --> 01:28:58.639
 I think my research, what really came up was farm succession

491
01:28:59.200 --> 01:29:02.610
passing the farm on to the next generation, which is

492
01:29:02.830 --> 01:29:12.040
almost, if you ask a farmer like what is sustainability to you, it's passing the farm on to your children.

493
01:29:12.710 --> 01:29:13.880
I actually

494
01:29:15.190 --> 01:29:24.850
it. It wouldn't be accurate if I said there was constant tensions in the environmental management of farm succession that actually didn't come up in my

495
01:29:24.950 --> 01:29:35.230
interviews a lot. But there were. There are a lot of other tension points, and I think they more center on bruised ego's loss of identity, loss of self

496
01:29:35.590 --> 01:29:39.140
and also different risk appetites which really

497
01:29:39.330 --> 01:29:41.460
come to the fall.

498
01:29:42.490 --> 01:29:46.870
that's the intergenerational part, just on the differentials with

499
01:29:47.020 --> 01:29:47.850
with

500
01:29:48.430 --> 01:30:06.619
farming families that I looked at. Yes, I did. I looked at 3 different groups. One were irrigating irrigated farmers in Western Southwest, in New South Wales, and the other was Dryland, mixed, grazing and cropping farmers closer to Canberra.

501
01:30:07.170 --> 01:30:14.550
Within those groups there were some who were certified, organic, some who were regenerative, some who were

502
01:30:14.680 --> 01:30:23.480
conventional, if we want to call them that. So I did look at the different production practices mainly irrigated, not irrigated.

503
01:30:23.610 --> 01:30:47.090
 I want to go into the details now really interesting differences, particularly in the context of irrigated farmers. They have to participate in water markets, and they have. That is just a huge I I didn't actually go in. That was the finding that I skipped. But I talked about the nature of water markets and what that means for irrigated farmers doing conservation, because there's

504
01:30:47.360 --> 01:30:51.459
an interesting tension point there. But we perhaps chat about that one.

505
01:30:55.800 --> 01:30:56.800
Thank you

506
01:30:57.110 --> 01:30:58.130
for a question.

507
01:31:00.260 --> 01:31:07.510
so I will answer both together the question, because.

508
01:31:07.770 --> 01:31:08.680
yeah.

509
01:31:08.790 --> 01:31:18.039
I will answer you. I will give you 2 answer. My answer may be the state answer to your question.

510
01:31:18.380 --> 01:31:36.949
So, because not the same. I think that if we need, we want to sing work in relation, in contribution to an ecological transition. We had to think the labor market, the whole labor market.

511
01:31:37.140 --> 01:31:42.820
different sectors, different workers, different category of age.

512
01:31:42.900 --> 01:31:51.519
Yes, I agree with you, the green jobs if we want to think that if you want to. First the link, we had to think

513
01:31:51.610 --> 01:31:54.110
a

514
01:31:54.300 --> 01:31:59.699
this, this challenge concerning all the workouts.

515
01:31:59.780 --> 01:32:01.180
not only you.

516
01:32:01.860 --> 01:32:04.770
and is there a reason why I insist

517
01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:21.460
in one fact is that when we see what is we, we try to define, bring jobs that initially come from a very particular perspective, the perspective where we think

518
01:32:21.460 --> 01:32:37.680
work as a government, as a dependency from the economy. And it is not my perspective, I think, both together, not in a position, not independence, but really.

519
01:32:38.300 --> 01:32:54.909
And I think that we have the work and the mission to see how processes, products, and also activity can contribute to this ecological transition.

520
01:32:55.180 --> 01:33:00.849
But, in fact, at any time that the State produce policies

521
01:33:00.940 --> 01:33:30.569
focus on use because they are different from the elders that they don't consider and even and waste the the planet and has a normative discourse about that. So green jobs in most policies I am on a lighting in Canada are considered really well

522
01:33:30.810 --> 01:33:59.010
qualify. So even among young people is some type of young worker who come contribute to the ecological transition qualify technology. So man people who can not from from from minorities. I say, people who are in this type of training or this level of education.

523
01:33:59.010 --> 01:34:13.290
So the question of this day it seemed to be very restrictive at this moment, in my opinion, thinking that there are only 1 one category of age.

524
01:34:13.290 --> 01:34:37.539
and not linked to other categories of age, but the the other don't understand. They changed because they have not these values of considering environment, and more or less, is one type inside of this category of age qualify young people who can't contribute and benefit from

525
01:34:37.540 --> 01:34:56.099
erez agmoni State, because, finally, there are 3,000 young people in Canada who are finals who use public resources to create a trade and develop range of contributing to the ecological transition in Canada. So what about 150

526
01:34:58.080 --> 01:35:03.609
these policies in Canada don't link generations, and

527
01:35:03.700 --> 01:35:10.520
because Even in these sectors. There are really a sharing of ages.

528
01:35:10.550 --> 01:35:34.579
technology of environment. There are a lot of new young worker who train new educational programs. But there are very older professions there that. And they are not linked to the programs in the program with these people also, neither the program. The little programs they level program don't make links

529
01:35:34.580 --> 01:35:41.680
with all the young younger, younger generation with the internship. They are not mentors.

530
01:35:42.180 --> 01:35:54.939
mentors are young people from the programs and not the older working there because it's tightenance mentorship. So we need mentorships and they are not there.

531
01:35:58.650 --> 01:36:05.370
Do we have any other questions even among yourselves, asking each other, maybe from the presentations.

532
01:36:10.680 --> 01:36:15.420
Yeah, I I I I I think I have some questions. Also.

533
01:36:15.480 --> 01:36:21.370
I think you answered my question already on the intergenerational license.

534
01:36:21.460 --> 01:36:33.150
I think also, Kenya, in terms of I think it was similar to what she asked. But look as your question, you know I I was interested in sort of like when you're talking about, especially this farming

535
01:36:33.220 --> 01:36:54.880
this diversity activities. If the decisions, if not, I mean, we all know that COVID-19 has impacted in so many ways of how we do things in the the kind of decision that we make, including the type of work. And even on an agricultural land, hey? In your I mean, have you sort of conceded, perhaps asking whether COVID-19 has affected the decisions in some of this?

536
01:36:54.969 --> 01:36:57.539
And then Marco,

537
01:36:58.040 --> 01:37:18.349
the the the the fishing, the allocation of cot, has. I'm not sure. How does it work? Especially for for the small fishing sectors, and that. And also do they sort of like get specific? The fishing? the fishing cotters? Yeah. How do they? How? How? How? How do they get allocated?

538
01:37:18.350 --> 01:37:37.969
The quarters, and how much is a quarter that they're supposed to do? And does it matter on this pieces that is available where they fish and then for orange, or in my question. Probably you know, people's perceptions and their acceptance of climate change. Does that matter, even in terms of some of these.

539
01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:41.449
construction. It's just some questions that I have.

540
01:37:41.910 --> 01:37:42.639
Thank you.

541
01:37:43.209 --> 01:37:47.230
Too many questions.

542
01:37:48.379 --> 01:37:49.080
Yeah.

543
01:37:49.290 --> 01:37:53.989
Okay, I didn't ask specifically on

544
01:37:54.240 --> 01:38:04.350
those farmers experiences with Covid. But I do have an observation that they reflected back to me. Yeah. intertwines with Covid.

545
01:38:04.670 --> 01:38:14.150
3 things happened as a result of the extensive lockdowns that Australia went through in the farming sector. Well, 2 things of note here.

546
01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:17.049
One was that kids returned to the farm.

547
01:38:17.080 --> 01:38:21.830
Yeah. And a couple of farmers in this

548
01:38:22.850 --> 01:38:27.180
area of New South Wales that I looked at commented on that

549
01:38:27.430 --> 01:38:34.919
returning to the idea of succession which has been an ongoing issue in Australia. Kids aren't returning to farms.

550
01:38:35.680 --> 01:38:47.750
They have started returning at a rate that they weren't before. And part of the reason is, and this is the second aspect of covert is that property prices in rural New South Wales have increased a lot

551
01:38:47.840 --> 01:38:49.480
because of.

552
01:38:49.790 --> 01:38:57.350
you know, city people being like, why on earth would we be in this cesspool. Let's go out to this wall

553
01:38:57.660 --> 01:39:10.149
area. So and then also on top of that, a lot of commodity prices increased a lot. So all of a sudden farming became a bit more appealing. Which

554
01:39:10.490 --> 01:39:15.010
is it? A buck? The trend that had been occurring for the previous

555
01:39:15.650 --> 01:39:19.330
decades, I suppose, and I think Covid

556
01:39:19.790 --> 01:39:32.339
offered this trigger moment where a few of those things, and especially, I think, because I was just thinking even in terms of people working from home and for being able to

557
01:39:32.639 --> 01:39:40.340
go into some of these fun areas to stay. Then work and sort of like.

558
01:39:41.580 --> 01:39:43.819
that's what I'm looking for here.

559
01:39:44.540 --> 01:39:50.580
Yeah, remote working. Yeah. And how that also somehow impacted. And some of these decisions.

560
01:39:51.530 --> 01:39:52.219
So

561
01:39:53.629 --> 01:39:54.629
let me.

562
01:39:55.110 --> 01:40:07.269
yeah, fishing and ocean, which is the Ministry of Fishing in Canada. It's Federal. Then you are also at provincial level.

563
01:40:07.379 --> 01:40:10.390
the history of a culture

564
01:40:11.460 --> 01:40:20.139
and just hunting, and so on. But that's more for the administration of food and the quality of food.

565
01:40:20.260 --> 01:40:24.750
At the Federal level it is organized for quotas

566
01:40:24.810 --> 01:40:37.229
quotas are individual, individual, they are attributed every year. So there, there are adjustments on the basis of a stock

567
01:40:37.840 --> 01:40:45.220
estimation. So it's individual total attribute, because in Canada we have the

568
01:40:45.250 --> 01:40:50.080
the principle of the captain owner. So it's difficult to

569
01:40:50.530 --> 01:40:52.020
this principle

570
01:40:52.130 --> 01:40:56.980
tries to avoid accumulation of licenses. But

571
01:40:57.280 --> 01:41:03.740
there are as well. So it's individual quota by species. Some

572
01:41:03.940 --> 01:41:09.510
people have different species. For example, when I say species, it's a

573
01:41:10.870 --> 01:41:15.100
 a floor fish like

574
01:41:15.170 --> 01:41:27.030
similar to coatfish, because cut fishes, and maybe shrimps or a crab and shrimps. The problem is that every species has its own equipment.

575
01:41:27.040 --> 01:41:32.699
and the equipment is millions of dollars. So it's difficult that a person that

576
01:41:32.880 --> 01:41:37.850
has the equipment, for shrimp also has the equipment for crabs.

577
01:41:38.510 --> 01:41:42.660
so sometimes it's easier to have shrim

578
01:41:42.710 --> 01:41:49.520
low-flow, or fish, but that no flow of fish is the less profitable

579
01:41:50.700 --> 01:41:56.680
so, and it took me 5 years to understand how it works. And it's very complicated

580
01:41:57.230 --> 01:42:13.899
erez agmoni, and that the complicated thing of this governance is one I will look at you now is one of the things why relations are so that so much complex, and why the fishers

581
01:42:14.240 --> 01:42:15.860
contacts

582
01:42:16.200 --> 01:42:24.020
deny the do not recognize the value of the decisions of the

583
01:42:24.230 --> 01:42:29.070
fishing better in the  Yeah.

584
01:42:29.200 --> 01:42:38.269
As I said, the principle of captain owners tries to avoid dissimulation, but in reality there are

585
01:42:38.570 --> 01:42:43.030
groups, people that manage to have more permissions.

586
01:42:43.370 --> 01:42:45.250
And yeah.

587
01:42:45.520 --> 01:42:59.760
and and the networking within different fishing captains. And you know, and especially in terms of the question. Yes, networking. Just since, for example, in this region.

588
01:43:00.130 --> 01:43:02.609
the the problem is that they divided

589
01:43:02.740 --> 01:43:06.319
to rain in a way. But the

590
01:43:06.630 --> 01:43:09.159
captain owners. They decided, like

591
01:43:09.550 --> 01:43:12.899
7, 8 years ago, 10 years ago, to put together

592
01:43:13.000 --> 01:43:25.480
for selling the fish, because they realized that if they sold individually they didn't have Burgain in the power. So they built what is called

593
01:43:25.740 --> 01:43:30.650
in office the Lakeravet, the Gaspe, a city

594
01:43:30.670 --> 01:43:33.270
office that

595
01:43:33.420 --> 01:43:55.500
put together it's like a trade union. It put together that then there's the association of Captain Owners, but they are a body which is represented by several representatives of fishing out. The captain owners, and they go towards the industry, and they negotiate the price. The problem is the free riding.

596
01:43:55.830 --> 01:44:01.179
There's always a free writing that do not respect this. Then they find another

597
01:44:01.620 --> 01:44:05.540
seller, or that, for example, a

598
01:44:06.360 --> 01:44:09.690
you. You should respect some rules

599
01:44:09.840 --> 01:44:12.380
for the barking

600
01:44:12.760 --> 01:44:14.620
fish in Quebec.

601
01:44:14.880 --> 01:44:23.850
but you have to do that just if the Maak, the Ministry of Agriculture of Quebec, of the Province, gave you money.

602
01:44:23.970 --> 01:44:45.999
if they didn't give you money, you can go to Labrador or another province that pays you more. And there's competition into provincial competition. Sorry? It's complicated. Yeah. Yeah. And but do you have in like even your study with the conflict with the bigger fishing vessels. Is there some kind of in Quebec? There are not many.

603
01:44:46.150 --> 01:44:46.940
Hmm.

604
01:44:47.110 --> 01:44:50.839
Big vessels, but there are big buyers.

605
01:44:51.130 --> 01:45:05.630
Okay. The problem of Quebec fishing especially we have the shrimp which is decreasing, which is very Quebec, but it's exported

606
01:45:06.040 --> 01:45:09.510
in in Japan and

607
01:45:09.580 --> 01:45:22.270
people locally they regret that they cannot have access to that, or the price is very high. The same thing for snowcraft they have the as well. People eat that for Eastern

608
01:45:22.300 --> 01:45:36.350
this year the price was more reasonable, but last year it was priceless. Why? Because most of it was exported in Quebec, in Japan and another county, North America. The Us.

609
01:45:36.390 --> 01:45:41.860
So there is a problem of the common good. Our resources is not

610
01:45:42.430 --> 01:45:55.280
exploited locally, but this is the change, the value of chain global values change. But it's a problem for the economy as well, because they are not bargaining power toward the big confidence.

611
01:45:55.880 --> 01:45:56.950
Yeah.

612
01:45:56.960 --> 01:46:01.270
Yeah.

613
01:46:01.700 --> 01:46:09.700
So in terms of your question around. I guess perceptions of climate change.

614
01:46:09.800 --> 01:46:18.310
From what I found I would say that didn't drive builders and apprentices. It was a perception of their environmental impact, which is.

615
01:46:18.460 --> 01:46:40.329
I know it's kind of the same thing, but it's different in their eyes, and that if you think about why the waste management that they could see very tech highly what they were doing to the environment. We might have moments where they washing concrete into the into the sewers or off offsites or throwing everything into a skip or

616
01:46:41.590 --> 01:47:10.859
yeah. Or there was one story that I've had from a guy who was head. I almost had a little minute at many epiphany when he was washing his paintbrushes in the back of a stream behind a building. So he is working on, and he just kind of realizes he's doing it. This is a really bad way we should, of what we do, how we do things here. So I think it's more protecting of the external environment of thinking about that's in relation to waste. And the challenge we have in this sector is.

617
01:47:11.140 --> 01:47:29.869
how do we link that very real concern about the environment around waste and our practices in that space to the more abstract, where the types of buildings and how we built these buildings are leading to increased weather events which will impact our environment. So that's

618
01:47:29.900 --> 01:47:34.979
how do we get from yeah, that very tactile understanding to that more abstract understanding of

619
01:47:35.070 --> 01:47:39.650
what our work does and how it impacts our environment.

620
01:47:40.130 --> 01:47:46.510
Okay, I think we we have to wrap up. Our time is up. But thank you very much to the presenters.

621
01:47:46.740 --> 01:47:51.730
Absolutely, very interesting, very, very interesting.

622
01:47:51.800 --> 01:48:08.830
Thank you very much. Yeah, no, thank you. So we have a, I think, A, a. Another session in p. 2 is B, 2, our, the Rc. B, one in the crown. So if you're interested, and this one is on

623
01:48:09.420 --> 01:48:29.790
trade unions and the authoritarianism in the global set. P, one level, one crown. That's the last session for our C, 30. And yeah, I don't know what's in in the environment. But thank you so much, everyone, and enjoy the rest of the afternoon and see the next sessions. Bye.