WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:01.000
Okay, so I'm gonna hand over to you now October. Thank you very much everyone for coming.

2
00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:15.000
The session Friday morning session. And we have Octavia's Sacramento. And we have then 2 other presenters.

3
00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:27.000
We have got to have a gap in the middle because, not attend this morning's session. So we want to keep keep to the schedule times so we'll just have a gap and go for a coffee or something.

4
00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:29.000
Okay.

5
00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:30.000
So I'm going to hand over to you now Octavio. Thank you very much with your presentation, Mass Tourism.

6
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:35.000
Okay. Okay, thank you so much.

7
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.000
And File security risks.

8
00:00:38.000 --> 00:01:08.000
I don't think and hello to everyone in the in the room. From, Portugal.

9
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:17.000
I'm from the in the school I'm from the French tradition and my English it's not so good.

10
00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:39.000
Well, the French tradition and, my English, it's not so good. Well, given the title of our session, I would like to start by saying that, the discussion of, of the new digital social and social entanglements in 2 reason is inseparable from

11
00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:40.000
the discussion. Yes.

12
00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:46.000
Have you? We've just had a little bit of a crash on our inmate, so we're just going to have to start a fresh, I'm sorry.

13
00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:47.000
Okay, okay then. Okay, no problem. No problem. Okay.

14
00:01:47.000 --> 00:02:05.000
Excuse me. As a If you share a slide for. You can actually see in them. Yeah, rather than for that system.

15
00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:06.000
Okay.

16
00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:13.000
You can put the first slide.

17
00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:14.000
What is?

18
00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:31.000
Check. Yeah, that's it. And then

19
00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:32.000
I'm so sorry for these problems.

20
00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:40.000
Oh, that's it for that.

21
00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:41.000
Okay.

22
00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:43.000
Yeah, Sweet. Okay, we can see you. And we carry on. Yeah, thanks.

23
00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:51.000
Okay, okay. Thank you. Okay, II was I was saying that.

24
00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:57.000
Given the title of our session, I would like to start by saying that the discussion of the new digital and social entanglements in tourism.

25
00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:16.000
This discussion is, I think, inseparable of, from the discussion of, the, bias security risks underlying mess stories.

26
00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:27.000
And I think, the, Covid-nineteen pandemic, ask, clearly, show us that.

27
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:31.000
Slide 2, please.

28
00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:34.000
Thank you. By adopting the so-called probably meets critic perspective of tourism.

29
00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:53.000
I will try to discuss here. The role of of mass tourism flows in the development of the COVID.

30
00:03:53.000 --> 00:04:07.000
19 pandemic. And from there from here reflect on the future of tourism sustainability. And this analysis is based.

31
00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:20.000
On 2 2 mainly 2 central objectives the first and to understand our tourism activities and the mobility.

32
00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:32.000
Have contributed to generate epidemiological risks. And raising enormous challenges in the field of bio security.

33
00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:48.000
And, from here I, tried to, I liked the urgency to give greater visibility to public health issues in discussions about tourism and sustainability.

34
00:04:48.000 --> 00:05:05.000
The empirical research supporting the analysis of my analysis was. permanent predominantly directive towards the collection of secondary data.

35
00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:35.000
Documentary elements statistical information reports and statements in media services large international institutions world tourism organization for example and in another source interesting source that is the discussion form of the travel platform.

36
00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:54.000
Slide 3, please. 2 reason and, it's, It's, Associated Transport, transport networks.

37
00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:16.000
Are the result of a social material. More than human assemblages. And in which multiple actors in interact contingently contributing to generate serious risks of bio contamination and even create epidemic scenarios.

38
00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:33.000
And the responsibility of tourism in the geographic or dispersion. Of bioterrorism is, mainly processed it in 2 ways.

39
00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:42.000
First, it processes in 2 ways. First, directly through 2 ways. First, directly, true to tourists themselves.

40
00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:53.000
Food and transport. And other material elements associated with a trip. The second way is, indirectly.

41
00:06:53.000 --> 00:07:08.000
Because terrorist activities are associated with in industrial food production systems that, sometimes are related to zoonotic diseases.

42
00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:35.000
And also, tourist activities are responsible for for the invasion of wildlife habitats and country boot to the emission of pre-made changing pollutants and contribute to the emission of cremate changing pollutants that disrupt ecosystems.

43
00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:47.000
And the epidemiological spread of COVID-19 is quite often.

44
00:07:47.000 --> 00:08:17.000
Associated with Theresa May mobility. Slide, for please. Then I, leave you I don't I don't I think it's not necessary to read the, I leave you some examples, that are identified from a newspaper, er, newspaper reports.

45
00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:35.000
That I think this this journal, news. I think they, show that, in the beginning.

46
00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:57.000
And the Tourism out the COVID-19 outbreaks are in some way. And connected with, with, and to reason, mobilities to reason activities.

47
00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:26.000
And I think this is not, this is not new. if we think in the last 20 years, there are there have been several cases in which there is a link between, there have been several cases in, which there is a link between, tourism trips and, which there is a link between, 2 recent trips and disease

48
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:51.000
outbreaks such as to the closes, Sask of one and flu. And so, the disconnection between MAYORs, and, so, the, disconnection between MES, TORRES, and so, the disconnection between mess to reason and

49
00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:57.000
COVID, er, 19 outbreaks is not, er, er, connection between MESS TO RISMAN and COVET, er, 19 outbreaks is not, er, er, er, something new.

50
00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:05.000
It's, we have in the best some other examples. Slides 5, please.

51
00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:19.000
By accumulating large numbers of people from different origins in small compacted spaces. With the share with elements.

52
00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:31.000
International tourism scenarios foster it multiple outbreaks of COVID-19 and.

53
00:10:31.000 --> 00:11:01.000
The war was responsible. They encouraged the rapid global spread of the infection. From, more or less from January, 2020 up until the generalization of travel restrictions there were several contacts in which tourist mobilities were intrinsically associated with the geographic expansion of contagion chains.

54
00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:18.000
That's an example just and from many other examples. Hi, address one of these. 2 risk contacts of.

55
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:34.000
Super, super spreading of staff, so, to, this context is the ski resort of his room in the Alps.

56
00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:51.000
These, these, these research, these resorts, this resorts. And, stage the scene of one of the largest

57
00:11:51.000 --> 00:12:01.000
Global events. Of super spreading of during the peak of Dikes ski season. More or less between the end of February and the beginning of March.

58
00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:29.000
2,020, it was estimated that more than 6,000 people of about half a hundred of nations may have been infected in each rule and they and transported the virus to their respective countries.

59
00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:38.000
Weeply dispersing it worldwide. slide 6, please.

60
00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:59.000
One question now. I think it's a central question. What, social material conditions have generated the viral hot break initial.

61
00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:05.000
Not only in in many other ski resorts and. Thank you. In many other tourist scenarios.

62
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:22.000
II think that the photography And the 2 descriptions taken. From Trip Advisor.

63
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:33.000
Show. Perfectly these conditions. These 2 descriptions taken from Tripadvisor, they are.

64
00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:53.000
They are from. From tourists from India and Canada and they these tourists they, they, they, staying in in Ishigu.

65
00:13:53.000 --> 00:14:05.000
In in the period of, February, March.

66
00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:13.000
The slide 7, please.

67
00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:43.000
Given the, a clear role of tourism in the in the viral globalization of SARS, got to, and it is to be expected that the buyer security challenges raise it by tourist mobilities will gain greater attention than the biosecurity challenges raise it by tourist mobility challenges raise it by tourist mobilities will gain greater attention and be subject to more consistent and effective policy frameworks at international national and

68
00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:11.000
local It gives, I think, essential to consider bio security and public health as even more relevant dimensions in the sustainable development goals.

69
00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:22.000
And at the same time, Question, critically, critically question the relationship between tourists and sustainability.

70
00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:45.000
I think it is essential to clarify if. Tools and needs. Sustainability are an end in themselves. Or and means of promoting the sustainable sustainable development of societies.

71
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:56.000
Given that, tourism activities are by definition, manifestations densely embedded in the social fabric.

72
00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:11.000
I think they must be viewed clearly as part of a much larger hole and position it at the service of societies.

73
00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:37.000
True, true recent contributions to face the great contemporary social public health and ecological challenges. Can tourism and themselves truly a itself as an agent of sustainability and and and this purpose to reach it country roots.

74
00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:45.000
It will be. I think it would be, an intrinsic condition. Of its own sectoral sustainability as economic activity.

75
00:16:45.000 --> 00:17:11.000
Thank you so much. I finish now thank you so much

76
00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:22.000
Great, thanks very much, Toby. I think we got there in the end. So I just want to open the floor for any questions or comments.

77
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:30.000
We use them.

78
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.000
I think that

79
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:48.000
What you have to say is very important because tourism is Obviously part of this. Whole reason why the the covert 2 spread so rapidly.

80
00:17:48.000 --> 00:18:06.000
Particularly in the French Alps and in Italy. And became such a big problem. The tourism and mobility was really intrinsic to that but then after that after the lockdowns There's been this sort of drive to recovery.

81
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:21.000
And do you think that there's been any you know, sustained policy initiatives. That have sort of recognized this link between tourism and biosecurity risks for the future.

82
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:34.000
Or do you think that largely that's just been focused on economic sustainability rather than rather than any sense of protection of societies.

83
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:42.000
I can answer now. I wait for more questions.

84
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:43.000
No, you one, Seth, that's fine. Yeah.

85
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:58.000
Okay, okay. I think, and looking at. At, several statements of.

86
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:28.000
Of people related to the tourism activities. I think, the the majority of them. And want to recover economically the time lost and I think and I think the pandemic probably I think it's a pandemic probably I think it's a pandemic probably I think it's soon to make a clear clear assessment.

87
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:41.000
But I think, collectively we don't learn in tourism too much with the with COVID.

88
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:55.000
19 lashes. Tragic experience and I think the focus is. I seen the best.

89
00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:25.000
Business as usual. I think and I don't I don't I don't see too much changes in policies in to try to look through the buyer security risks as a major problem related close related to tourism.

90
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:41.000
And then, I don't see, er, that, this bio security risks that they be considered as a central issue.

91
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:53.000
In this, discussion about tourism and sustainability. I'm very sceptical. Skeptic off.

92
00:20:53.000 --> 00:21:01.000
Skeptical, yeah that's right. I think in the UK we are having a COVID inquiry, a government inquiry.

93
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:13.000
At the moment into COVID. And that's going to last 4 years, that inquiry. And they're just at the beginning of the inquiry now.

94
00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:25.000
And what they have identified so far is that they weren't prepared for a pandemic. They were prepared for a flu pandemic but not A COVID pandemic.

95
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:26.000
Hmm.

96
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:33.000
And so, you know, they weren't prepared and yet They don't seem to be.

97
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:44.000
Considering the fact that there might be future pandemics. And that that might be spread by mobility caused by tourism either so I think that you're right.

98
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:57.000
I think that there's very little. Given to. You know, embedding bio security risks into tourism policy or into any type of policy within a different nation states.

99
00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:07.000
I'm not sure whether there are any other perspectives. Any other questions in the room? Any other comments?

100
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:12.000
Hongen. Thanks. Thank you. A very interesting presentation.

101
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.000
Thank you.

102
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:41.000
I'm from Hong Kong and, I understand we have quite many articles published on Pandemic and host, Covid-nineteen.

103
00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.000
Yes, yes.

104
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:49.000
And maybe one thing to think about is if we look back, I understand Scar's question. Forward looking forward and if we look back we have previously you know SARS and then Kobe what have we learned about the relationship or such a relationship between tourism and pandemic?

105
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:59.000
That could be something to, think about even the presentation as well as the many publications we have of this subject.

106
00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:27.000
And another thing to think about is during the past year pandemic there were you know some parts of the world which is which is more restrictive more string jam in policy in more particular people versus other parts of the world which is more flexible you know and do you think Do you think policy, you know, pandemic related policy regarding mobility

107
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:37.000
have something to do with the power security as well as you know the recovery of tourism.

108
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.000
I think 2 little ones.

109
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:44.000
If I don't heard very well. I'm sorry if do

110
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:59.000
It does policy or does pandemic related policy regarding you know mobility of people. Have much to do with recovery.

111
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.000
Of tourism.

112
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.000
Yes.

113
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:15.000
I, truly I don't, I don't know. If.

114
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:29.000
We have a strong, a strong relation between the Paul policies, recovering pandemic policies, pandemic policies and the recovering of tourism.

115
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:43.000
And

116
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:57.000
One, one problem that I think it's, it's, that, and The problem is not only the disease outbreaks.

117
00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:16.000
Because, this biosecurity risks, they go far beyond the disease outbreaks.

118
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:36.000
Stephen Gossling and Michael Hole from in the last, I think, 10 years, they are, they show that, this, I think, 10 years, they are, they, show that, 10 years, they are, they, show that,

119
00:25:36.000 --> 00:26:02.000
this, biosecurity threats, posed by 2 reason, they, can affect, agricultural farming, they can affect, agricultural farming, they can bring you some, plants and seeds that, create, create problems in the in the

120
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:05.000
habitats. It's, create, create problems in the, in the habitats.

121
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:16.000
It's, it's this biosecurity risks is, is a large, is a much large, problem and, but we can say speaking, and only in the, in the epidemic.

122
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:38.000
And only in, in the epidemic, we can say, that, only in the, in the epidemic, we can say, that, the The 2 reason, yes, was.

123
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:58.000
Economic victim of the, ways like the ways, er, nations deal with the ways, er, like, er, the ways, er, nations, deal with pandemic with the several restrictions.

124
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:28.000
But, It's I think it's fair to say that to reason in some way was a victim in some way was a victim of themselves.

125
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:36.000
I think much more tourism than before the pandemic. We have in a in a scenario of over tourism.

126
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:57.000
I think generally speaking I think, in the 2 reason as, economic activity, I think I have skeptical about the learning from the pandemic.

127
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:08.000
Okay, yeah, one last comment because then we'll, Yeah, there's been there again.

128
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:09.000
Hello Octavia, I'm Ed. From a

129
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:18.000
Hello, hello. And first of all, my apologies for my, bad English.

130
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.000
No, no, no, we understand.

131
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:26.000
I'm, it's for, it's for me very hard, hard to try to, communicate.

132
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.000
I understand, but it's very hard.

133
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:35.000
No worries. I mean, English is also, I'm not also native in English, so it is we understand here in English, so it is we understand you really well. And my name is Eden Shakmak.

134
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:36.000
I'm from, you understand here really well. And my name is Eden Shakmak.

135
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:47.000
I'm from Breda University in the Netherlands. Together with my colleagues we we just published a book about changing truths and practices at.

136
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:55.000
And one of the actually results what we noticed that Let's say this is a wicked problem by a security.

137
00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:04.000
I mean this is no one actually can solve it solely. I mean No, in a nation, you know, not one institution.

138
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:19.000
So in a sense what we noticed that particularly the destination governors or the let's say in general that the national governments They didn't actually work together with the tourism organizations.

139
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:20.000
Yes.

140
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:46.000
Mean tourism organizations you know the network after the networks I mean that does is actually a quiet and then yeah at large and then I would say that yeah in some places quite and then you know strong let's say the institutions So in that sense, when they set up so there's a crisis management, it was, yeah, your

141
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:53.000
critics, it was, yeah, your critics, so it has an I would say more people that who are involved in that.

142
00:29:53.000 --> 00:30:15.000
You know, the pharmaceutical or the medical experts, but we haven't seen actually any tourism experts that Cool to actually, you know, contribute and then say something about that one how the you know does this this mobility is organized or what could be done could you please elaborate little bit on that I mean what

143
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:25.000
could be actually the role of the tourism stakeholders in you know just ensuring that their biosecurity at times of crisis.

144
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.000
Is that clear my question?

145
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:29.000
Very good.

146
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:51.000
Yes, yes, but. this, this, this, question, this, this, question, this, scenario, we, must look at at the top.

147
00:30:51.000 --> 00:31:04.000
Have clear. Guidelines to deal with this biosecurity challenges.

148
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:05.000
Right.

149
00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:26.000
I have I have some doubts. I have some doubts. and do, WTO and, other, to, other, tourism or, institutions, for example, from AV aviation.

150
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.000
I think he's, ICO. Yeah. related with aviation, international aviation.

151
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:38.000
Hi, ER, Aiaka.

152
00:31:38.000 --> 00:32:08.000
Okay, okay. They, they, they have, guidelines they have, some kind of of of of governance plan for this type of crisis and I have some I have some doubts I have some doubts I have some doubts I have some

153
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.000
Thank you. Okay, alright.

154
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:35.000
doubts I have some doubts I have some doubts. I have some doubts. And this I talk in this kind of of of international institution because somehow somehow they are the light houses that in which, er, because somehow somehow they are the light houses that, in, which, somehow, somehow they are the

155
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:40.000
light houses that, in which, the several stakeholders, try to get some kind of orientation.

156
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.000
Yeah.

157
00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:44.000
Okay, that's fine. Thank you. Thanks very much. We'll have to leave it there.

158
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.000
And. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you so much.

159
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.000
Thanks very much, Tavia.

160
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Listen in. Right. Thank you.

161
00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:02.000
I will continue to, to see other presentations and then a good, er, arrest a good of a good Congress in the in the last day.

162
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.000
Thank you.

163
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.000
Okay, thank you so much. Bye. Thank you.

164
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:25.000
Thanks. Thank you. Well then we could you just help us then to work out how to Get to the next one and leave the the zoom open for the online but then

165
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:39.000
So that when that one is fine, that's one's not happening. This one's gonna go directly onto

166
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:44.000
So Richard, are you going to?

167
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:53.000
All good to go. Great. Hand directly over to you. Thank you Scott.

168
00:33:53.000 --> 00:34:05.000
I'll get going straight away. Is that all right? Yeah, cool. This is the email that we got from the risk assessor at our university where the student I'm supervising Tyler R.

169
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:18.000
Who asked me to zoom in but I don't think he's joined quite yet. Was planning his PhD project to shadow food delivery riders by bicycle.

170
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:36.000
The text is probably too small for you to read, so in summary it explains. That such a high risk project needs multiple controls such as no cycling after dark, avoid dangerous roads busy traffic city areas sites of criminal activity.

171
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:48.000
The risk assessor also recommended not cycling at rush hour, school drop-off and pick up times in the rain in the sun and so on.

172
00:34:48.000 --> 00:35:03.000
Basically, overall it would be impossible to shadow or indeed even do food delivery work at all if we were to follow all of these safety recommendations.

173
00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:22.000
Once their initial shock subsidized, we realized that this demonstrates not only how risky the work is of food delivery work but the potential costs to the bodies and minds of the predominantly migrant workforce when things go wrong.

174
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:31.000
Today's presentation. At what costs the corporeal dimensions of convenience is based on Tyler's PhD.

175
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:40.000
Fieldwork, unfortunately Tyler cannot be here but he did just Yep, I think he's online now Oscar.

176
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:45.000
Unfortunately Tyler can be here, so I've offered to present this work on his behalf.

177
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:57.000
And against my typical style, I'm going to read the presentation that Tyler's presented to be faithful to his words because it's his work.

178
00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:08.000
And we're currently in the final stage of drafting a journal article. Along with his other supervisor and co-author Gerhard Hofstadter who's an anthropologist.

179
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:21.000
So, most research on platform workers, focuses solely on labor aspects. As food delivery workers in Australia are independent contractors.

180
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:47.000
They are not compensated for waiting time and don't receive the benefits of employees. Most of this work is carried out by international students and as we argue in our Jost article from last year as temporary migrants they are doubly disenfranchised as they are also denied the benefits of residents and citizens.

181
00:36:47.000 --> 00:37:01.000
Further algorithmic management has replaced human supervision and platforms treat workers as interchangeable and replaceable.

182
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:15.000
Platforms issue tasks and instructions to workers through smartphones and workers lack clarity on decision making processes which can have negative effects.

183
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:23.000
Algormic management can constrain choice and lead to increased precarity for food delivery workers.

184
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:33.000
Indirect control is maintained through customer feedback where workers conduct emotional labor in exchange for favorable ratings. Algormic management can also lead to discriminatory practices, surveillance and control.

185
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:59.000
These issues are compounded for migrant workers who may lack social capital. However, little is known about how migrant workers experience not only algorithmic management but the processes of food delivery.

186
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:11.000
To do so we ask the question what is it really like for the people involved in food delivery.

187
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:19.000
How did we go about it? How did Tyler go about it? I'm not going to claim credit for this.

188
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:28.000
Tyler designed a one-year multi-sighted ethnography to fully capture the workers social universe as Bordeaux would say.

189
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:50.000
This included over 100 h of face to face and digital participant observation as well as 53 shadowing shifts whereby Tyler spent 200 h following workers by bicycle and car to do what they do, see what they see and so on.

190
00:38:50.000 --> 00:39:00.000
This approach was fruitful as it also provided him with insight into the embodied experiences of physical and mental labor.

191
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:15.000
This was also informed by semi structured interviews with food delivery workers and key stakeholders. In the end he had 27 food delivery informants and 10 key stakeholders.

192
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:23.000
So what did he find out? First of all, there were multiple benefits and negatives of food delivery work, particularly for migrants.

193
00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:36.000
Workers really do enjoy the flexibility and perceptions of freedom are more than just marketing from platforms. However, they are especially problematic when things go wrong.

194
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:47.000
This, research shows that food delivery is hard manual labor that has detrimental effects on bodies and minds of workers.

195
00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:58.000
As you can see from one of Tyler's field notes on the screen there are multiple intersecting challenges.

196
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:08.000
In response, food delivery workers need skills to do the job well. Workers who work every day further home their schools to make their job more profitable and enjoyable.

197
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:27.000
The key skills that distinguish from that distinguish most competent workers involve navigation, cycling ability, time management, food handling, waiting, problem-solving decision-making.

198
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:37.000
They also use algorithmic like decision-making to improve performance.

199
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:47.000
Deciding where to work. Is an important and skilful decision which shares similarities with algorithmic decision making.

200
00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:55.000
For example, preferable zones for delivery riders are usually distinguished by a combination of factors as shown above.

201
00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:06.000
Such decisions can be based made based on trial and error. Previous results or advice from a network of co-workers.

202
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:20.000
One of the most impressive skills is how workers decide which orders to accept and which to reject. To achieve this workers rely on rapid mental calculations.

203
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:33.000
In the case of Uber Eats. Workers are shown delivery distance and a price. And given around 10 s to accept an order before it times out and disappears.

204
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:52.000
These decisions that the food delivery workers make are based upon a combination of factors as shown on the screen. As with the decisions regarding where to work, the mental calculations are influenced by previous experiences, trial and error and shared knowledge from other workers.

205
00:41:52.000 --> 00:42:07.000
These decisions are further complicated when workers are often the process of cycling when these notifications arrive on their phone dealing with all of the other embodied experiences we shared before.

206
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:20.000
While some workers pull over to check the information more clearly, experienced workers usually make these decisions instantly and without prolonged reflection.

207
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:30.000
In importantly they apply these skills to reduce negative impacts. Some are dependent upon current variables like the weather or traffic conditions.

208
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Others are learnt on the job. Some are brought with them from their previous professional and life experiences.

209
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:49.000
So what does all this mean? Previous research suggests that management by algorithm is a form of domination of workers.

210
00:42:49.000 --> 00:43:02.000
While discussions on platform work often concentrate on automation and technology. Food delivery work by cycle revolves around physical and mental labour.

211
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:18.000
Cycling for work in a subtropical climate is a visceral experience. Research on algorithmic management in food delivery under appreciates much of the manual labor that the workers carry out in the labor process.

212
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:27.000
Rather than being hidden labor, humans are responsible for much of the work that is actually attributed to technology.

213
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:40.000
Food delivery workers bodies bear the brunt of physical and repetitive labor. With many needing to return to their home countries early due to the negative impacts of this work.

214
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:51.000
This research shows that migrants engage in algorithmic light decision making to not only make their work more enjoyable and more profitable.

215
00:43:51.000 --> 00:44:05.000
But also to reduce the physical and mental burdens. This UN waged labor creates creations. The conditions of possibility for platform successes.

216
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:15.000
The convenience of delivery for customers, restaurants and platforms is reliant on the bodies of migrant workers.

217
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:38.000
As Hooverman argues. Such new forms of capital accumulation require new kinds of subjects. Convenience is not just a consumer product but an ideology that takes advantage of inequalities and sustains and perpetuates exploitative systems.

218
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:53.000
Many food delivery workers attracted by perceptions of freedom and flexibility. Such ideologies are powerful as they engage with the genuine wants, needs and desires of a population.

219
00:44:53.000 --> 00:45:05.000
However, as Huberman again warns us. We can become so habituated to harmful technologies and convenience that they become acceptable.

220
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:15.000
As such, researchers must challenge conversations on the future of work. That concentrate on digital narratives of labour.

221
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:25.000
Through highly skilled decision making based on experience, local and tacit knowledge. And embodied labor, workers contest.

222
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:41.000
Technological dominance and demonstrate their importance. That of their bodies to platforms, businesses and consumers. Despite inadequate renumeration or recognition.

223
00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:58.000
On behalf of Tyler who I can see is online there, thank you for your time and for any questions and comments we'll even see if we can get Tyler to respond to them and thank you very much Oscar for being a good sport and and holding the screen.

224
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:07.000
Thanks.

225
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:16.000
Questions? Should be on already. Okay, great. I hope you can hear us there.

226
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:29.000
Tyler. And thanks very much for that really interesting presentation. There's obviously agency there. By the part of the workers.

227
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:48.000
And it's not just about skills, you know, there's decision making that they can put into that but obviously also there's this whole you know structure around them where they you know feel as though they have to do this type of work. Classic agency structure tension.

228
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:58.000
Yes. And I think it throws up some sort of very interesting issues about how we think about this type of convenience.

229
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:08.000
Type of activity if you like. So, has anybody got any comments or questions? Odinch over to Virgin Children.

230
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:13.000
Tyler, are you happy to respond to Hurdi? Can you hear?

231
00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:30.000
Hi Tyler. Do you hear me well? Oh, okay. Oh.

232
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:35.000
Yeah. How's that, Tyler? Can you give me? Yeah.

233
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:39.000
Yes, we hear you well. Hi Tiger. I'm Martin. So the tough questions will go to Richard. And if it's a tough question, Richard, you can deal with it. Thanks.

234
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:54.000
All right. So the tough questions will go to Richard. I'm Erdogan. I did actually also, yeah, the tough questions will go to the region.

235
00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:06.000
I'm Erin, yeah, the tough questions will go to the region. I did actually also a photographic field work in Thailand about the informal work in Thailand about the informal workers and in Thailand about the informal workers and this reminds me that they took Document about the informal workers and this reminds

236
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:11.000
me the informal workers and this reminds me that they took drivers and at the time so that actually that internet was not that common.

237
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:23.000
But the issues And one of the things that what I noticed that there is a certain capacity of, let's say, collaboration between formal and informal economist stakeholders.

238
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:45.000
So in that sense, you know that these people, they can also, let's say, collaborate with the caterers and then you know that's not particularly let's say that the restaurant owners but the people who can actually at home provide some some food and so in that sense I mean that they can create a certain capital

239
00:48:45.000 --> 00:49:07.000
and then you know it is an and a quiet and an sophisticated capital not only economic but also cultural and social capital and and then accordingly, bring you know some certain assets to the destination Did you see actually also something some some possibilities like that?

240
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:25.000
I mean that yeah, I see your point. I don't actually, just at the height that you bring action more that the challenges but you bring action more that the challenges but of this I would say that the more that the challenges but of this I would say that the informal employees And the short question is, what are the opportunities actually for

241
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:34.000
this people and as well as for the tourism and hospitality industry in Brisbane. Thank you.

242
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:41.000
Yeah, thank you for the question. I'm not sure if Richard mentioned I missed the start unfortunately.

243
00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:59.000
But this is one I guess one chapter and turning it into one paper from my thesis. The previous paper that we've already published in In general of sustainable tourism which might be on the screen there actually.

244
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:07.000
We, we demonstrated how the workers are able to seek justice in response to the lack of institutional support.

245
00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:16.000
But not only that, they collaborated with other stakeholders like you say. So, restaurant workers, for example, would gift them food.

246
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:24.000
Customers would you know give tips and so on but also invite them in for a sandwich and things like this.

247
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:32.000
As well as just passers by on the street would, would hand them chocolates and things like this.

248
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:39.000
So one thing. Looking at throughout is I guess this kind of

249
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:54.000
This network of of collaboration that goes beyond just you know the A lot of the research and our understandings of platform work is that it's very individual and siloed.

250
00:50:54.000 --> 00:51:10.000
You just out by yourself on the street, you don't meet anyone and so on. But what what we found actually is there's this kind of network of relationships and I guess more ephemeral connections.

251
00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:21.000
Most people You know, really like to help out. I guess starting out the project I thought It would be about all about the exploitation and so on.

252
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:27.000
But it was really about the The communities is what really shone through and that's something I'm working on.

253
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:35.000
For the next aircraft to this one as well. The communities of practice. Amongst workers and beyond.

254
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:43.000
Yeah, Tyler, just to add 2 quick thoughts that this ecosystem that developed, I think that's what your question is about.

255
00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:52.000
There was also the bicycle repairr because you know the bike was so essential to the livelihood of the worker that when the bike broke down.

256
00:51:52.000 --> 00:52:03.000
There were almost these informal arrangements where the bicycle mechanic, you know, got people back on the road or lent him a bike or whatever it was that's right as an at Tyler.

257
00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:24.000
Correct, yeah, she she gifted that time and I'm expertise to them as well. Yeah, and another one I'm thinking when one of your into locators actually was banned from a band from one of the platforms so that they can be cut off at an instant even if there's a suspicion that

258
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:42.000
they're. Subcontracting or they're too quick or whatever else, then he got subcontracted by another Uber delivery rider and or they set up these informal sub-businesses delivering calls from groceries from supermarkets and so on.

259
00:52:42.000 --> 00:53:08.000
Yeah, yeah. It would be quite interesting, Tyler, if you maybe look at also what types of the capitals are let's say developed or improved by this people how they can actually be quite interesting, Tyler, if you maybe look at also what types of the capitals are, let's say, developed or improved by, look at also what types of the capitals are, let's say, developed or improved by by these people.

260
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:24.000
how they can actually, say, develop or improved by by these people, how they can actually access, you know, in this community and then they need to denote that other people how they can actually access, you know, in this community and then they need to denote it in this community and then they need to denote that other people and sometimes they even just have to swap to the IDs and so on

261
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:37.000
and Thank you. But then, Thank you very much, Tyler. Well, fascinating subject and such rich empirical materials you have collected.

262
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:44.000
The embodied experience is also a very complex one and because of this job there's very low entry barriers and I guess it's also easy to exit.

263
00:53:44.000 --> 00:54:08.000
I'm just wondering whether you have actually any data that would help us draw comparative lessons or draw lessons why people enter and why some people leave very quickly because they may actually refer a personality, their risk aversion level, so on and so forth.

264
00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.000
Thank you very much.

265
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:23.000
Thanks, Kancy. Yeah, a couple of of interesting points there. I guess first and again plugging the paper that was on the screen I'm from JOST.

266
00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:35.000
Are one of the key findings there is that People actually choosing this work over the hospitality industry and other alternatives available to them like cleaning.

267
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:41.000
So I guess the A lot of the

268
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:50.000
The the common knowledge I guess is that people are kind of forced into this work. But what I found is they're actually choosing this work.

269
00:54:50.000 --> 00:55:03.000
They want to do it. And it's great as Richard mentioned until something goes wrong and that's when they realize I hang on I'm not insured or I have no income or whatnot.

270
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:11.000
And I guess the other key factor here is the cohort in Australia. It's almost all international students.

271
00:55:11.000 --> 00:55:25.000
So they're here for at least in the capital cities. In the in the city centers. So what that means is they're here for kind of 2 years on average.

272
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:37.000
They're here for a short time and a fun time and those kind of things. So that's one of the reasons for example I get questions about why they're not Collectivizing or joining unions and so on.

273
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:43.000
I think it's because they're because of the unique cohort in Australia of international students.

274
00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:52.000
From the global south. Where there's an imprisonment at least a lot of them are from countries in South America.

275
00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:57.000
Where there's not much of a diaspora. So there's not community centres.

276
00:55:57.000 --> 00:56:05.000
They are connected with, there is not You know, generations of migrants that they can find support with.

277
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:16.000
Yeah, going a bit off track off topic, but hope that answered your question. Yeah, there was a second part to Kanseng's question that was reasons why they might exit.

278
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:31.000
Apart from going back to the home country. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah, and I guess as you acknowledge in the question, it's quite complex and for the most part Some, it really is very.

279
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:39.000
Some go back to jobs in things like cleaning or kitchens and so on.

280
00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:48.000
Others. Ex because they've been deactivated as Richard mentioned. In the previous response.

281
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:57.000
But for the most part, they tend to stay stick with it until their visa expires or they managed to find work in their professions.

282
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:02.000
So I'm not sure if Richard mentioned or if it was on the slides.

283
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:16.000
Most of them are very highly qualified, you know, out of the The 27 workers. That I was involved with 26 where, you know, university educated.

284
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:23.000
In our countries, their bank managers, their lawyers, their engineers and so on. So it really speaks to this underemployment.

285
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:37.000
Challenges we have of all migrants in Australia. All culturally diverse Country and linguists and diverse peoples.

286
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:38.000
So I think it's

287
00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:46.000
Again, going off of traffic. Topic but there's there's only systematic issues. Of our migration system and

288
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:49.000
I'm out with them.

289
00:57:49.000 --> 00:58:03.000
Quick comment the 2. Thank you. For these innovative paper I found your ethnographic approach really effective.

290
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:19.000
And something going beyond the usual critic of platform economy. And I found the interesting The recognition of workers tick scales.

291
00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:34.000
Because usually when we study platform ensuring economies We use workers as instruments. Don't critic a society critic.

292
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:46.000
Economy sharing economy and we are not really interested. In the lives of these people. So thank you very much.

293
00:58:46.000 --> 00:58:52.000
Your contribution. Thanks, Maxiana. That's great. Thank you.

294
00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:59.000
Thank you, Tyler. Very interesting topic that you brought up. I'm from Hong Kong.

295
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:13.000
And I understand this, I mean maybe this could be, you know, regarded as a byproduct or maybe outcome product, whatever you would call it, of these sharing economy.

296
00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:29.000
Delivering food is only one. I mean, delivering by bike. Is also only one being 0 Upper and even you know have a couple couple of years ago I was in Canada with family having nothing to do for a few days and we drive around to pick the food from the restaurant and help delivery.

297
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:41.000
And they have many issues that we have to consider the road and how much was there in that library, etc.

298
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:55.000
Very complicated things. Actually my my question related more to the ontological nature. Of the problem and maybe or maybe.

299
00:59:55.000 --> 01:00:18.000
Epistemological collection of problems of of the research. To publish literature, for example. I understand the delivering of food can readily relate to hospitality, but delivering our groceries, delivering of postal.

300
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:40.000
Parcels, etc, global theory like Fedex and many other things. It creates a flourishing I won't say business, but, a platform for many jobs for people to especially for people who want to take temporary job for a short term time.

301
01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:53.000
To publish this research, would you rather think that it may be better to go somewhere or would you rather think that it may be better to go somewhere or I don't know which, would you rather think that it may be better to go some way or I don't know which would feel it may be.

302
01:00:53.000 --> 01:01:13.000
You may you may find most fit for this type of work or do you have concerns for that? I appreciate that you mentioned there's a piece of work publishing general hospitality such a job of sustainable tourism and I can see the collection between between these research and tourism or hospitality.

303
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:21.000
But will they make a broader contribution or contribution to feel outside tourism hospitality? Any thoughts on that?

304
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:28.000
We're actually thinking of the journal of China tourism. Yeah, sorry Tyler did you get that?

305
01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:43.000
Thank you. It's a good question and something I've been grappling with. Some once said the benefit of being an interdisciplinary researcher is that everyone can tell you how wrong you are with.

306
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:51.000
Some into effect. I'm still trying to find my audience. I'm sure Richard mentioned this start.

307
01:01:51.000 --> 01:02:00.000
I came from an anthropological background, hence the ethnographic methods. And finding a journal fit.

308
01:02:00.000 --> 01:02:23.000
An audience has been challenging what I'm doing with my thesis is looking more broadly at the the idea of hospitality You know from our anthropological philosophical kind of standpoint and and looking at how I guess the workers

309
01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:32.000
Because they're they're intersecting you know the the commercial domain with their work they're going to People's doorsteps and bringing them sustenance.

310
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:43.000
Particularly during the pandemic when people are when I did the data collection and people were Isolating in their home so there's that extra

311
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:51.000
I guess additional context there. As well as the social hospitality, how they're treated as migrants in Australia.

312
01:02:51.000 --> 01:03:04.000
And I guess the main contribution from my thesis is I'm looking at this intersection of the the physical and digital.

313
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:16.000
Domains. And how how this new type of hospitality is emerging. As it's mediated through physical and digital objects.

314
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:25.000
So for example, Now I'm I'm a bit of an outsider, right? I'm at the other end of this home line.

315
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:31.000
I don't really know who's in the room. I can't see properly. I can't hear the questions properly.

316
01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:35.000
Where's that the other It's my research and I'm delivering it. I'm the host in that sense.

317
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:42.000
I'm kind of looking at this this nuance of the The hybrid hospitality that's coming forward.

318
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.000
I've had my own blank Richard what am I calling it? The mediated motto of hospitality.

319
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:57.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, great question. Thank you. Thank you.

320
01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:01.000
Thank you very much.

321
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:22.000
That's a great, it's a great issue. That we always like wanting to encourage into disciplinarity but then when it comes to publishing It's very often very a challenge to know where as the Where is the right home for the research?

322
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:30.000
Not a lot of journals are actually there looking for interdisciplinarity in a real sense of it.

323
01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:47.000
And it can become problematic. In terms of developing your identity as a researcher. Into disciplinarity you bet you actually need to sit within a silo basically somehow So it then becomes sort of a bit more problematic, I think.

324
01:04:47.000 --> 01:04:57.000
But I would, yeah, yeah. It's just been marine research but they don't know where to have it assessed.

325
01:04:57.000 --> 01:05:02.000
Yep, that's right. It's a And we have that problem with the with the UK ref.

326
01:05:02.000 --> 01:05:10.000
You know, they want interdisciplinarity, but then it's it's difficult to know how to position it within the submissions if you like.

327
01:05:10.000 --> 01:05:18.000
But, could recommend work employment in society because the editors-in-chief are colleagues of mine at Nottingham.

328
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:21.000
It's a good journal.

329
01:05:21.000 --> 01:05:31.000
Bob, are you ready? Come on up.

330
01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:40.000
The last presentation. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much.

331
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:52.000
Good morning everyone. Our presentation is titled Exploring the Philippine Meetings. Incentives, conventions, and exhibitions in history oppose pandemic policy perspective.

332
01:05:52.000 --> 01:06:04.000
In the context of COVID-19 pandemic, I and Paul were motivated and inspired to choose the mice industry as our main focus because they were hardly hit by the pandemic.

333
01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:13.000
For one, the hotel industry in the Philippines managed to survive as they were used as quarantine zones for inbound travelers.

334
01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:26.000
Meanwhile or overseas could be the workers returning to to home. Meanwhile, the airline industry continued their business serving as air car carriers for those in the hospitality industry.

335
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:41.000
They were able to survive by preparing meals and making use of the online delivery apps. However, all events, including trade expos, conventions, were halted in the name of social distancing.

336
01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:49.000
After all, any celebration of an event requires people coming together, including this conference.

337
01:06:49.000 --> 01:07:08.000
The tourism industry is among the most adversity affected industry. By the COVID-19 pandemic due to the imposed travel restrictions in 2,022 the UN WTO reported a decrease of 71% in international tourist arrivals from 2,019 to 2,020.

338
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:19.000
In South East Asia, distress leads to a staggering 79% production in global tourism receipts over the same period.

339
01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:35.000
In the context of ease of doing business in the Philippines rank 48 out of 63 countries in the world in a 2,021 world competitiveness ranking in the Asia Pacific the country ranks 13 out of 14 countries.

340
01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:50.000
Zeroing in on the 4 major criteria, the Philippines ranks 50 third in economic performance. 48 in government efficiency, 39 in business efficiency and 57 in infrastructure.

341
01:07:50.000 --> 01:08:06.000
Specific variables on one hand points out areas where the Philippines performed well, namely tax policy and of course labor market because of our competitive manpower and labor practices.

342
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:07.000
Our paper is a product of a practice based research supported by the Development Academy of the Philippines.

343
01:08:07.000 --> 01:08:25.000
There were 2 previously conducted studies. The first in 2,016 focused on the areas of accreditation, fiscal incentives and local government requirements among all sectors under the tourism industry.

344
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:37.000
While the second report in 2,018 presented the tourism industry's general regulatory required environment while focusing on tourism accreditation.

345
01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:55.000
Overall, the aim of the study is to contribute to the national government's efforts to improve the ease of doing business in the Philippines by developing mechanisms and developing mechanisms and developing mechanisms and developing mechanisms that would make mechanisms and developing mechanisms that would make policy and developing mechanisms that would make policy and regulations more relevant and

346
01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:04.000
coherent and identifying measures to reduce a necessary regulatory burden and coherent and identifying measures to reduce a necessary regulatory burden on the mice industry.

347
01:09:04.000 --> 01:09:18.000
The main focus of our paper is the mice industry or the meetings, incentives, conference, Congress, and exhibitions.

348
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:25.000
This label shows a comparison of the tourism and the mice industry across selected 5 countries in Southeast Asia.

349
01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:38.000
Among these countries, Singapore is ahead in all areas. Singapore is the most competitive as depicted by several international indicators, including the use of technologies such as the internet speed.

350
01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:57.000
In South Asia, Singapore is the first to accede to the ATA. Carney or at the Carney since the inception of the Atta Convention in 1,963 that at the current is an internationally recognized document for the temporary importation of eligible goods.

351
01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:10.000
Meanwhile, the Philippines slacks in all areas. Aside from having the lowest ranking in various tourism global index and having the lowest internet speed among the selected ASEAN countries.

352
01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:27.000
All these impacts the development of mice industry in the Philippines. Interestingly, the Philippines is also the only country where accreditation is mandatory in the other 4 countries to pick it on the table, accreditation is a way to measure the quality of products and services.

353
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:35.000
Hence, accreditation is not mandatory.

354
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:46.000
Currently, the Philippine mice industry is in each market. The table depicts the number of mice accredited suppliers including facilities and organizers throughout the country.

355
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:55.000
Overall there are credit 41 accredited mice facilities throughout the country.

356
01:10:55.000 --> 01:11:06.000
In terms of our framework, the study adopts 2 frameworks, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development or OECD policies responses to Covid.

357
01:11:06.000 --> 01:11:33.000
19 and the functions of scientific information are the fossil model, the OECD policy response to kovat 19 recognizes the survival of business throughout the tourism ecosystem which is at risk without continued government support and although governments have taken impressive action to question the blow to Jerusalem, more needs and intervention are to be done and in

358
01:11:33.000 --> 01:11:46.000
more coordinated way. Meanwhile, the function of scientific information model assumes that policies We have developed to achieve a specific goal that can create a managed change.

359
01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:59.000
We also recognize Singapore's regulatory framework being one of the world's best mice destination that looks at safety nets such as assurances, licenses and premiers.

360
01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:06.000
To discuss further the methodology and the succeeding sections of the presentation may I now turn you to.

361
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:11.000
Over to Paul.

362
01:12:11.000 --> 01:12:23.000
Thank you, sir. As for our methodology, we adapted. Qualitative research. Our interviews and focus groups were all conducted online via Zoom.

363
01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:30.000
We recorded those meetings, we transcribed and then we use Nvo to analyze the themes.

364
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:43.000
Our key informants are top-level administrators. Of the biggest mice in the street players in the Philippines.

365
01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:54.000
We even included one telecommunication company because Internet is a very important resource for holding mice.

366
01:12:54.000 --> 01:13:04.000
Our focus group is represented both by the public. In the private sector. So we have representatives from the national government, from the local government.

367
01:13:04.000 --> 01:13:14.000
We even have from the Akadem. And we have from the private sector which are represented by small and micro enterprises.

368
01:13:14.000 --> 01:13:41.000
In terms of geographical distribution, We have well represented. Respondents we have 13 are from offices with national scope we have 12 from, Lzon, that's the northernmost island of the Philippines, where Manila is located and some of the key mice destinations are there.

369
01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:52.000
Our 3 from the Visayan archipelago that's the middle of the Philippines and the southernmost island, Mindanao, we have one.

370
01:13:52.000 --> 01:14:01.000
Okay, I'll be skipping this because Serb already gave us an introduction to the MIS industry in the Philippines.

371
01:14:01.000 --> 01:14:09.000
So the mice roadmap served at the Mice Road Map, 2,030 served as our springboard for the study.

372
01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:10.000
This document envisions where the Philippines with the study. This document envisions where the Philippines would be in 2,030 in terms of our mice industry. This document envisions where the Philippines would be in 2,030 in terms of our mice industry.

373
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:28.000
The Philippines would be in 2,030 in terms of our mice industry. This document was developed in spearheaded by the PASSIUS, the Philippine Association of Convention, Exhibition Organizers and Suppliers in partnership with those government agencies.

374
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:43.000
This document identified 4 key problems. The 4 yellow blocks that you see there, these are the 4. Most pressing problems that him there is the ease of doing business in mice.

375
01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:56.000
The red boxes are the themes that We identified based on our interviews and focus groups. So I'll be exploring all of those.

376
01:14:56.000 --> 01:15:14.000
Problems. Let's start first with the regulation. So this is a summary of all the regulations in the Philippines affecting the mice industry starting from March, 2,020 where we had a lockdown until January, the 31, 2,022.

377
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:22.000
So we have 19 overall, 31, 2,022. So we have 19 overall and if you notice the month of June.

378
01:15:22.000 --> 01:15:30.000
Alysis or regulations released in just one month. So imagine the confusion among the mice industry.

379
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:35.000
What they are going to do with such very fast based changes in policies.

380
01:15:35.000 --> 01:15:46.000
This is another problem that was identified. We're talking about tourist transport here. There are 2 government agencies.

381
01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:55.000
The LTFRB is our land transport franchise regulatory board. No one in charge of issuing franchise for tourist transport.

382
01:15:55.000 --> 01:16:08.000
The Department of Tourism is the one giving the accreditation. So, the middle box there are those 2 requirements that are required by both.

383
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:19.000
Agencies. So when we are hearing the stories of our key informants and focus group. They have a problem when they wanted to apply for tourist transport franchise.

384
01:16:19.000 --> 01:16:41.000
They're being pulled to go to the OT and get your accreditation and get these documents when they are in DLT, they are again told to go to LTFRB to get the document so that that's very confusing on the part of those who are applying.

385
01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:52.000
These are perceptions of I, regarding our accreditation system, the Republic at 9 5 9 3.

386
01:16:52.000 --> 01:17:03.000
Is a national law which it's our National Tourism Policy Act that requires all And tourism enterprises and tourism personnel to be accredited.

387
01:17:03.000 --> 01:17:17.000
However, the local government units are not following this. So technically, what happens now in reality, accreditation is just optional.

388
01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:24.000
What this business is and personnel do first is they get permit. Otherwise they won't be able to operate.

389
01:17:24.000 --> 01:17:37.000
The problem with the low trust to the accreditation process is that especially during the pandemic if you are accredited, you are being monitored every year.

390
01:17:37.000 --> 01:17:50.000
So if you do not follow the government regulations you have the tendency to be penalized. Versus other who are not accredited because they are not monitored.

391
01:17:50.000 --> 01:18:02.000
These are some of the perceptions, some of what happened. That the participants shared regarding their business as they have to downsize, lay off some employees and then they have to innovate to non-tourism services just so they could survive.

392
01:18:02.000 --> 01:18:13.000
So that the business would not close.

393
01:18:13.000 --> 01:18:34.000
Okay, here we have some of the statements from our key informants. My organizer for has an event coming in May, 2,020 but we know events are planned months and probably even years ahead and there are still no policies being released and probably even years ahead.

394
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:36.000
And there are still no policies being released so they don't know events are planned months and probably even years ahead.

395
01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:40.000
And there are still no policies being released so they don't know if they're going to push through with the event, if they're going to cancel, if they're going to refine, they're in stalemate.

396
01:18:40.000 --> 01:19:01.000
And then the travel agency manager. Is going to participate in an exhibit. And they don't know because There's a conflict with the national government and the local government is releasing another policy which is contradicting to the national government.

397
01:19:01.000 --> 01:19:06.000
These are even featured in some of the news in the Philippines.

398
01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:12.000
Okay, in terms of permits, it's very confusing. There's no standard decision.

399
01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:23.000
The mice venue supplier is one of the biggest in the Philippines they have venues all over the biggest in the Philippines they have venues all over the Philippines and they have venues all over the Philippines and they have one event and they have a road show that they have one event and they have a road show that travels throughout the country.

400
01:19:23.000 --> 01:19:26.000
So that road show that travels throughout the country. So that road show event. Has foreign partners and they're quite confused when they do it in this city.

401
01:19:26.000 --> 01:19:40.000
There's a different requirement when they do it in the VIS, another different requirement and then they go to them in the now there's still another different requirement and it just confuses them.

402
01:19:40.000 --> 01:19:55.000
The professional Congress organized for has no problems paying everything all the requirements required by the government but the problem is they don't know The ones published officially is not complete.

403
01:19:55.000 --> 01:20:00.000
We don't know the fees. How much are we going to pay? That's the problem.

404
01:20:00.000 --> 01:20:16.000
These 2 are examples of those who didn't who have positive experience. With the event even if it is during the pandemic we still were able to organize events with ease.

405
01:20:16.000 --> 01:20:23.000
The common thing between these 2, the organised event outside of Metro Manila.

406
01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:37.000
To give you an idea, these are the 4 largest mice destinations in the Philippines. If you're planning to organize in the city of Pasa, that's where our international airport is and all our biggest venues are there.

407
01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:40.000
So you would have to comply with 14 requirements. That's the minimum requirement if you are organizing conferences.

408
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:51.000
If you're featuring something with fire cooking or any controlled goods you still have to apply more permits.

409
01:20:51.000 --> 01:21:03.000
The most liberal city we have right now is Clarke. In fact, many international events are being held now in Clarke because they don't have any requirements at all.

410
01:21:03.000 --> 01:21:13.000
Sebu in VISIS and Davao have be few requirements as compared to the one in

411
01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:23.000
Internet is again we have one of the slowest based on data. It's a problem and we are kind of branded like a very, a country with a very slow internet.

412
01:21:23.000 --> 01:21:25.000
Our practice right now is that if you rent a mice venue, there is an internet included there.

413
01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:44.000
But it's very slow. So what mice organizers do, they could purchase additional bandwidth in its very expensive because it's like a partnership where the internet company monopolizes.

414
01:21:44.000 --> 01:21:51.000
The services so you get to pay more but it's not a guarantee that The internet will be faster.

415
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:58.000
Or the attendees could bring their own internet. Yep, that's. What happens?

416
01:21:58.000 --> 01:22:19.000
We interviewed our telecommunication supervisor and kind of seem like the Philippines is doomed to have slow internet from the start because we are an archipelago, all of our internet, most of our internet are from under CK balls and since we are also located in the Pacific Ring of Fire, we have earthquakes, volcanic

417
01:22:19.000 --> 01:22:35.000
eruptions. We are located in the typhoon, all this affects the internet speed. And there were also some Statements where there are deliberate sabotaged by people over internet infrastructure.

418
01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:44.000
Yeah. And another problem is that army in 2,022 we have just started to exceed the art of RNA.

419
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:57.000
It's supposed to be good news for our exhibitors, but the problem is According to Philippine policy, the Philippine Chamber of Commerce is supposed to be in charge of the banded warehousing.

420
01:22:57.000 --> 01:23:11.000
Of these goods. And they don't want the responsibility. So right now, even though we have exceeded, nothing is still happening in terms of at our knee.

421
01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:22.000
There was even one case when the exhibit or there doing a jewelry exhibit and their centerpiece jewelry was held up at the customs.

422
01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:34.000
It was only released after the exhibit. So that's the problem. If we have at We could have a faster customs regulations processes.

423
01:23:34.000 --> 01:23:43.000
So in conclusion, we know that the Philippine mice industry have been really severely affected by the pandemic.

424
01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:47.000
Okay, and.

425
01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:55.000
Is it easy to do business in the Philippines, especially mice? It depends on where your planning is, especially mice.

426
01:23:55.000 --> 01:24:03.000
It depends on where you're planning your or your event. And Normally if you are doing conferences, meetings, it's easier.

427
01:24:03.000 --> 01:24:10.000
If you're doing exhibitions and you're featuring controlled goods. You will have a lot of problems.

428
01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:15.000
And it also depends on the scale of business because those who have experienced better dealings with the government are those bigger industry.

429
01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:41.000
Those micro and small enterprises experience the brunt of the problem. And we have many recommendations. This is an action research, so we recommend that the Department of Tourism and the franchise board do just one issuing, no need for them to independently issue permits.

430
01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:51.000
And we also I recommend to defer accreditation because the local government units are not recognizing the accreditation.

431
01:24:51.000 --> 01:24:57.000
So it's like the Department of Tourism is competing right now with a local government.

432
01:24:57.000 --> 01:25:18.000
And, Yeah, continue the health. And safety protocols, emergency plan. So as to alleviate The negative impacts of another probably crisis event that would affect the mice industry where they could tap mice venue and even mice organizers organized government-related events.

433
01:25:18.000 --> 01:25:28.000
Train LG used the 4 areas that we showed you. These are the 4 largest Nice destination, unfortunately.

434
01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:36.000
If you other places are not trained and they cannot host mice. Events

435
01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:45.000
And then. I require the mice organizers to seek my experiments from LGU only if they will feature control goods.

436
01:25:45.000 --> 01:25:54.000
This model was patterned after Singapore's. Model. It will be very easy if you are not going to feature any controlled or dangerous goods.

437
01:25:54.000 --> 01:26:07.000
And recommendations 7, 8, and 9. Pertains to one transparency use of online platforms to promote and to itemize all the requirements.

438
01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:18.000
Organize mice, how much is the fees? So I avoid confusion. And, number 10, it's a standardized inclusion of higher bandwidth.

439
01:26:18.000 --> 01:26:22.000
This is for the Philippines. This is for the Philippine, a higher bandwidth.

440
01:26:22.000 --> 01:26:31.000
This is for the Philippine image, improve the image of the Philippines that we can have F And lastly, as about the Atarney, if the PCC out of the Philippine Chamber of Commerce does not want to assume responsibility.

441
01:26:31.000 --> 01:26:45.000
Our recommendation is to empower the mice venue to serve as bonded warehouse so that they could host events or host exhibitions, especially those if it will.

442
01:26:45.000 --> 01:26:57.000
Feature imported goods. Lastly, we would like to acknowledge that the Development Academy of the Philippines for funding this study.

443
01:26:57.000 --> 01:27:07.000
Oh, thank you very much.

444
01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:16.000
Thanks. I think that we all recognise that the events industry was probably hit hardest and longest by the band's industry was probably hit hardest and longest by the pandemic.

445
01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:32.000
The nighttime economy also but also events as well. Or something because you know you've got to have people together and congregating in you know, very difficult to do any sort of social distancing.

446
01:27:32.000 --> 01:27:41.000
Around events and so on. But I mean, I mean, a really important piece of work, I think, is very comprehensive.

447
01:27:41.000 --> 01:27:51.000
But my question is, what's the power of the industry to lobby for change? You know, with against all of this regulation and so on.

448
01:27:51.000 --> 01:27:59.000
What we found in the UK was that some of the industry associations were very, very good at lobbying.

449
01:27:59.000 --> 01:28:18.000
For their interests. Particularly UK hospitality to somebody there. One leader, she was really, and she got a foot in the door of the government and she was able to really make sure that everything about hospitality was top of mind of government agenda.

450
01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:27.000
I just made me think, you've got all of this competitive pressure in the region. From other destinations that are much more.

451
01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:41.000
You know, freer or less regulated if you like and seems to have less or clearer controls or a better relationship between the industry and government and policy and regulation and so on.

452
01:28:41.000 --> 01:28:51.000
But to what extent really have the industry in the Philippines got you know, some power, some lobbying power, with the government.

453
01:28:51.000 --> 01:29:07.000
We have very low power actually even though they have mice the Philippine Association of Convention Exhibitors, the Pasaos group is the prime civil service organization.

454
01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:17.000
They are tapped by the government if they if ever there are any policies in fact most of the policies that we showed you the 19 policies.

455
01:29:17.000 --> 01:29:29.000
The Passias was consulted among those policies. However, in terms of making really significant changes like the at of RNA and everything, those are actually needed.

456
01:29:29.000 --> 01:29:36.000
Somehow the pacious voice is very low. It's really a top down approach in the Philippines.

457
01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:52.000
If the if the national government insists Another problem is the local government. Our constitution we have devolution of government powers the local government can impose what it likes it can contradict the national government actually.

458
01:29:52.000 --> 01:29:56.000
So that's another problem.

459
01:29:56.000 --> 01:30:12.000
Yeah. Well, thank you very much, Paul and Bob. As Scott says, such an important piece of work that you're doing and and and it matters to the economy.

460
01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:23.000
I thought one you have drawn comparisons to Singapore and that made me happy but in some ways are Singapore is a place with many regulations.

461
01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:30.000
I mean it's not true that they don't have many. The question then is why is it that they seem to be a lot more efficient and effective.

462
01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:43.000
In that context. I guess you can also address the issues that you have within the wider political context of the public service.

463
01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:51.000
Efficiency, I mean Singapore was at one stage rather inefficient. We have a gothic campaign.

464
01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:58.000
Which was well received by some quarters but not by others. That's because they are always vested interest.

465
01:30:58.000 --> 01:31:18.000
Some people really do not want to cut the red tip to keep their jobs and so on. I suspect that the Philippines face very similar challenges because you can have fewer regulations which is unlikely you have more people will be happier and they're going to continue making inefficient so that they, because they benefit from it.

466
01:31:18.000 --> 01:31:32.000
Yes, thank you very much, dancing. That's really part of our consideration. Since this study is really very large We, that part is included, especially the permits.

467
01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:45.000
We tried to create a flow chart of all the requirements and we tried we proposed something to reduce significantly reduce all the processes.

468
01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:52.000
However, again, the study and even the development academy of the Philippines is always a recommendatory body.

469
01:31:52.000 --> 01:32:02.000
In fact, we don't even know what will happen after we submit the. The report to the development academy of the Philippines would be good if we can monitor.

470
01:32:02.000 --> 01:32:13.000
During the public consultation when we presented this, especially to the local government of Pasai, because they have been complain of all the mice organizers.

471
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:26.000
They say they are going to reduce. They say, but again, it's just a word and we don't know that the actions that they're going to do.

472
01:32:26.000 --> 01:32:32.000
Next. Okay, let me just address a paradoxical issue There are so many rules, regulations, policies, plans and etc.

473
01:32:32.000 --> 01:32:49.000
And people are confused and they are looking for guidelines. And so I mean, bureaucracy is actually as a system.

474
01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:57.000
You know, if it is actually at the, let's say, low level, it easiest actually, you know, that the value chain transactions.

475
01:32:57.000 --> 01:33:21.000
But when it gets heavy and then you know much much more Longers even in the valley chain so it can actually kill that in the Truism stakeholders as it is the case I was little surprised that Besides all this in your recommendations, You are asking much more plans and then you are asking actually much more somehow do the right lines.

476
01:33:21.000 --> 01:33:44.000
It's another an idea. I mean that maybe to decrease the size of the value chain and then accordingly you know that the ones actually who are intervening to the system they can they can bring less rules and regulations less plans and then accordingly not the value chain can You know, yeah, run smoothly.

477
01:33:44.000 --> 01:34:06.000
So instead of additional plans, additional rules. What do you think of? I definitely agree. Our university is organizing events in Pasai before the pandemic we do it every year and we feel all this unneeded regulations.

478
01:34:06.000 --> 01:34:16.000
It's true. It may seem that way when we present it, but actually in a sense, especially in one of the recommendations I think if I can go back.

479
01:34:16.000 --> 01:34:30.000
Is to reduce the permits for item 6 that's that's for the process of permits to reduce it and only for controlled goods and we wanted to standardize.

480
01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:38.000
That's our recommendation. And I think some of the national government units like the Department of Tourism also lobbies for that.

481
01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:47.000
But again, even The department of tourism does not have power. To mandate this local government units to reduce.

482
01:34:47.000 --> 01:34:59.000
Essentially if other destinations like the the clerk the one in clerk where they don't have any regulations at all maybe one day it could overcome.

483
01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:13.000
The fast I and they would realize that we're not competitive anymore. We have to reduce this so maybe that could be an example, but definitely taken into consideration all those comments.

484
01:35:13.000 --> 01:35:22.000
Thank you. Thank you very much. An interesting presentation. 2 quick thought.

485
01:35:22.000 --> 01:35:34.000
One is will it be or do you think if you present this set of proposed solution to the corresponding government department where they take the solution.

486
01:35:34.000 --> 01:35:44.000
Will it take it seriously or will it be better that you present or maybe you collaborate with a government theme tank.

487
01:35:44.000 --> 01:36:07.000
Transfer these proposed solutions to the government through the same time. Will it be a better solution? So that's what and the other one is is this only the other one is is this only the situation of the past 3 pandemic years or will he or was this the same situation before the pandemic?

488
01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:20.000
It's because I saw most of the data you present were of those 3 pandemic years. Actually, this is been the case even before the pandemic.

489
01:36:20.000 --> 01:36:30.000
In fact, it's probably worse than during the pandemic because according to our key informants they introduced more permits more requirements during the pandemic.

490
01:36:30.000 --> 01:36:45.000
And in terms of your first question about presenting or collaborating, we did in fact a week underwent 3 public consultations with this where the government are one of the prime attendees.

491
01:36:45.000 --> 01:36:56.000
During those time. So the purpose of this program really is the Development Academy of the Philippines, which is a government agency partners with the Akadem or in the sector so that we could form an alliance.

492
01:36:56.000 --> 01:37:01.000
And love be changes in the government. Yeah, we are hoping to have feel the changes that we have recommended.

493
01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:14.000
It was just amazing that there was just so much increase in the number of regulations through the through the pandemic.

494
01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:23.000
I mean, you know, you would expect that partly, but then also there's got to be some sort of facilitation.

495
01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:36.000
Innovate to be able to survive through the pandemic. Any other questions here? Thinking about the your yesterday's presentation.

496
01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:49.000
I think that at the basis there is the same issue. Really strong top down bureaucratic and not co-operative and not co-creative approach.

497
01:37:49.000 --> 01:37:58.000
This day. Yes. The problem is the same. Yeah.

498
01:37:58.000 --> 01:38:20.000
So. Yeah, but I, yeah, I also review that the problems the same and But the thing is, these are also the same meters so that we have, we have until, yeah, it's like when I look at this conference and from an event management perspective and then Korea is hosting in 4 years and then who's going to

499
01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:34.000
be the next host and perhaps in my wild imagination and thinking of Manila, the Philippines being host for 2030 first but the Philippines being hosted in 2030 first but like you have the Filipino's being hosted in 2030 first but like we have the Filipino talent but we lack infrastructure and of

500
01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:49.000
course it's also always the bureaucracy that but we lack infrastructure and of course it's also always the bureaucracy that comes in in terms of course it's also always the bureaucracy that comes in in terms of bringing in people that comes in in terms of bringing in people and in terms of bringing in people and goods and services to the country.

501
01:38:49.000 --> 01:39:06.000
So in terms of bringing in people and goods and services to the country. So in terms of, we feel this, we felt the sincerity of the Department of But in terms of the dealing with even interviewing customers, we have difficulties in terms of viewing them.

502
01:39:06.000 --> 01:39:20.000
And, but, tourism stakeholders, we need to see the national government and some of the from the local government tourism office were also receptive but for the part of customs.

503
01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:35.000
And our transportation we didn't have much. Much information that we gathered we in as much as we want the our data to be more holistic.

504
01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:39.000
Okay, I think.

505
01:39:39.000 --> 01:39:44.000
I think we're about done, which is great. We've had a very nice relaxed session.

506
01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:46.000
Just want to thank the 3 present tastes. We've not had to hurry through the time or anything like that. We've not had to hurry through the time or anything like that.

507
01:39:46.000 --> 01:40:04.000
We had plenty of time for discussion. So really interesting presentations. And Octavio as well online from from Lisbon and it's been a very enjoyable session.

508
01:40:04.000 --> 01:40:09.000
Thank you very much for your This is good.

509
01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:10.000
Thank you so much.