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Okay. Good evening, you everybody. I'm but to say some tricker.

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What sort of sociology? Bangal University connect to India.

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Hello!

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Welcome you all to this

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session

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on digital

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newer liberalization and liberal is the one saints. Capitalism technology induced monopoly.

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Well, before the start of this session.

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say there is a kind of statutory regulation to go through acknowledgment of country as it is appeared on the scene.

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Can I get with that?

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Okay.

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on behalf of everyone gathered. I pay respect to the spirit of country here in now.

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where we are meeting. acknowledged the past and present to collaboration

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as the sovereign people. Here

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the cultural knowledge holders who enter and promote the norm aboriginal law, customs and Australianship responsibilities for country

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and the people that country continues to sustain sensation of the generation into the future. For all of us I recognize the important contribution that

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first nations think of how it to sociology. including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all first nations delegates

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in the room today for their contributions to knowledge

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in the discipline.

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Well.

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I'm the session organizer, and already pointed out

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the we have also

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with us. with the

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actually yes, to chair, and he has assigned me that job

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to tell this session. It's a

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privilege, great privilege for me.

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and I'm also 100 as well. Oh. what the hell co-chairs with us?

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 yeah.

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Then we have.

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Yeah.

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I think you have

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5 paper presenters

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for here the first presenters.

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Oh, these Jimmy Davies from Australia.

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is he? Yeah, yeah, you are right there. Thank you. Nice to see you.

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Okay. she will be presenting your paper on. Oh, the failure! It's beautiful.

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is it? It is something else. It is failing fast.

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Same topic. I've changed it. Okay, come and present your pack. Thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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okay, so Hi, everyone. And thank you so much for coming. I guess. The first thing I should acknowledge is that the title of my paper is changed, which I think is a very honest reflection of how scholarly work goes, you have one id. And then, a few months later, realize you were wrong, and it's become something else. and so here we are. So what I'm talking about today is part of an Australian research council project looking at ethics in Australia's tech startup sector

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and then thinking about Australia. Here as the global phenomenon or a hybridization of global influences and influencers in this case, particularly Silicon valley adapted to local form.

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And so what I'm gonna do is kind of set the scene just to start off really quickly and read an an edited excerpt from some of my field notes, and then I'll kind of unpack the content of that excerpt through the course of the presentation.

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So

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so just off the escalator, I stood with an associate from the Government supported co-working space located in City's central business district. His voice projected over a whistling espresso bar as we took in a visual of the site's current residence, symbolized by so many framed logos, hung neatly upon a timber handled wall

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encircled by a sandy border. Each frame should slip graphics behind behind clear glass. These were small, light, and blended into an aesthetically pleasing hole. My my guide pointed out new additions and rising stars, removing a few frames as we spoke, representing companies that had closed, merged, or were otherwise now gone.

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The fluidity of this display was striking, as though any moment could bring new frame Logos, the subtraction of old, or the exchange of one icon with its freshly rebranded variant.

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Having spent the prior months immersed in Australia's technology, Startup sector, the wall resonated with my observations the efficiency by which each frame and the company behind it could be discarded, displaced, or remade a new echoed, a pattern that continued to surface over the subsequent, a subsequent years of research in which 2 values and related practices should collective centrality with an Australia startup scene, failure and speed.

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So the project is really driven by this part of the project is really driven by an overarching research question. And then 2 kind of sub questions. So what are the values that underpin and animate Australia startup sector? in terms of culture and practice? And how are those values formed and embedded? Especially as a global phenomenon. How do they show up in an entrench? And then how do these values operate as part of a holistic ecosystem

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as a background. Why do we care about these questions? Why do we care about startups? Well, I think there's 2 main reasons to care about startups. So one is that

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with their increasing prevalence and prominence, they are a place of work in labor and the new economy. And we should care about the conditions that that people work in. The other thing is that startups are where the new generation, the next generation of technologies, are produced, or at least ideated. Very occasionally this happens through a break out, start up success.

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but far more often through ideas that are created at the small scale grassroots level and then subsumed by big tech firms. and you can look at most of anything Google's ever created as the simpler of that.

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to give a bit of background on the Australian startup context. I think the best way to describe yesterday and start up context is nascent. It's tiny by global standards, but growing exponentially, hitting in a couple of years ago a venture capital market just over 10 billion. It's gone back a little bit. But

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it's the kind of market that is in process. And if we take seriously. And so there's notion that cultures and process are the most observable. They offer a clarity unavailable in sites that are already taken for granted and established. Then what we have with the Australian sector is a really rich research site.

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So what did I do in this study? I did. I did 3 years of ethnographic work in the startup sector.

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in-depth interviews with about 50 practitioners, and that really spans the whole ecosystem from founders to venture capital funders, people who run accelerator programs, educators in the startup space.

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I also did

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a lot of other informal interviews and participant observations through networking events meet up office visits, a lot of panel attendance. Of course you might notice this spanned over Covid. So while it started in person. It then moved largely virtual, which is fortuitous in many ways, because I was able to attend a stuff kind of all around the country from home, and then, towards the end of data collection, was able to move back

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offline.

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I also looked at a lot of documents, industry, documents, government documents, promotional documents, etc.

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Okay, so there are sort of 3 main findings that I'll talk through. The first deals with the cultural ethos of the tech sector, which, as I mentioned, is this failure, speed ethos. The second is cultural spread. How did it get here and in bed? And then finally, I'll talk about an asymmetrical ecosystem. What happens when we think not just of those who are founding start up companies, but also of the multifaceted parts that come together to make this whole.

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So the first and sort of most prominent finding is about what I'm calling a failure-speed ethos. What are the values that drive this sector failure and speed operating together, or what I how it, what I describe as an embracement of failure and services, speed.

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failure, and speed, have independently been identified as characteristics of start up culture in a lot of other literature in the Us. And and kind of all around the world where Silicon Valley, Silicon valley has kind of spread. It's a spread and diffused But here, what I'm arguing for is to think of them together as a as a whole greater than the summer of their parts. And so I just have one example of

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failure and speed operating together. and so these are a field notes of a panel that I attended, of women entrepreneurs, and what you I mean. I'm not sure if you can read this or not, but what we see them doing is joyfully recalling their failures collectively, while imploring each other to just do it. Move quick, let the consequences fall where they may all, all kind of glossing over things like companies shutting down, people not being able to get paid products, not doing what they expected, etc.

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And this mattered, for, as I said, the conditions of work in the sector, mental health was a thread that really ran poor mental health was really a thread that ran through interviews with founders. There were also extensive discussions with all male teams. all white male teams who would sort of

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ext toll the virtues of diversity. But then talk about how the exacting time schedules made it much easier to grab the person right next to them, who also happened to look like they did.

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oh, and also the products created. so one other example of that is One of the participants was doing sort of a

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social good project as as and to aid in development as part of an accelerator program, and was kind of outbid in the marketing part of it by others who were doing really quick to market gamification apps because those

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her failure was was a

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undermined by their speed.

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Okay, so how did it get here? So I've said that Australia is a global phenomenon. Or there's these global global forces adapted to local form. Of course, they're sort of the regular practices of cultural diffusion with which we're all familiar, where hegemonic cultures spread out to everybody else. but also there are these 2 mechanisms by which this failure, speed ethos kind of made its way to the Australian shores really explicitly and then entrenched. And so one was international migration.

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Every founder that I spoke with had spent considerable time overseas, either in Silicon Valley or in one of the hubs internationally that have been deeply affected by the Silicon Valley culture. So whether that be Israel

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The parts of China were really common, and then some European sites as well, and in the us places like Colorado and Boston. That sort of have their own version of it. and so we had this migration bring in here. But then there was also an institutional enculturation accelerator programs where seed ideas, but also entrepreneurs, are cultivated.

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by professionals in the field and then given access to funders were ubiquitous, and the lessons the curriculum of these accelerator programs was heavily based on failure and speed work quickly fail fast.

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get there through duds and disasters was sort of the message that, and and that the founders would talk about, but also the accelerator operators would sort of boast about in teaching about their curricula.

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So the final finding is about the ecosystem of this failure, speed ethos. So when you think about the startup sector, we often think about kind of, you know, fast moving founders. But actually, there's a lot of actors at play, and the 2 that I focus on here are

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funders and founders, and what we see when we look at funders and founders, those who pay for, who those who invest in the in the start ups and those who then be able to run the start ups is that there's a speed, has a double standard, and failure has uneven effects.

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and so on. The left. Here on your right are, I don't know if that is on the left. We have a quote from George, who's an angel investor who has, who talked extensively over the course of our of our interview about how important it was that the founders he funds move quickly and and come to market fast, but then also talks here. I mean, really sort of proudly. Let's see about how the those in whom he invests

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a have to wait for him to feel comfortable, and he'll talk about sort of waiting over the course of the year. So to build those relationships.

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2, we see failures, uneven effects. The funders distribute risk and absorb it really easily and kind of balance.

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a lot of losses with a few big wins, whereas the the founders that I talked to were distraught and distressed, and struggling, and and often living with parents, and borrowing money, etc., which resonates with what we know from industry documents that expect founders to have like 5,000 bucks in saving and no in savings and no cash reserves.

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Okay, so to summarize, we looked here at Australia's tech startup sector as a global phenomenon, hybridizing global forces to local form. And we looked at what are the values that circulate in this sector and identify the failure. Speed ethos brought here through migration and embedded through enculturation in accelerator programs, how it operates as asymmetrically with funders on the one hand, and founders on the other, getting longer and shorter ends of that stick.

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I'll close by noting that this is not inevitable, and there have been proposals for alternative models, for example, a growth models of innovation in which scale is deprioritized, legislative frictions in which there's barriers between development and market and slow development movements in which human factors are put at the forefront, and development has to adhere to those through considered

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discussion and debate and testing, etc.

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So that's it. Thanks so much for Australian Research Council and support from Hmi

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and research assistance.

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Okay, thanks to Jenny Davis from Australia for presenting our ethnographic study. I hope she's very effective and efficient enough

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in presenting our viewpoints so nice to listen to you. Then we have our next presenter.

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Justranji Napa

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from Kompei University cannot come here.

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He will be presenting his paper.

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respected

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chair persons

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and delegates. I am Dr. Anjanopa B. H.

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Currently working as a professor of Sociology. Korean, Pino City, India.

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I am here to present my paper

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title is Sociology of Science and Technology. 3 visualization of social Sociological Framework.

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I would like to thank the session organizers

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and all the team members for providing me with the opportunity

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to present my paper.

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Once again. My presentation

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is sociology of science and technology revisualization of sociological

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framework.

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This is basically theoretical. But

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this is background of the paper sociology of science and technology exams. Sociologists role in technological study.

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It examines sciences, complex relationship with society and knowledge formation.

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It analyzes the sociology of science and technologies. Prominent

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schools are

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start via historical and present studies.

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From the first few decades sociology has ignored science

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and technology.

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The topic is typically described by august Countess. Love thrills stages and positivism which is introduced to social science methods.

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standard methodological approaches were

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prepared. The farther study sociology seems to have persisted with this

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strange away

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of thinking. Since then

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introduction of the paper post mortar. In some, under postalism, introduced social. technical assembles, phenomena created by the co-producing

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mutually constitutive action.

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actions.

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science, technology, and innovative studies contributed to the invention.

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sociology and philosophy have offered aoretical tools for studying mankind's intellectual and technological achievements.

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revealing many problems in science and technology.

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the sociology of science studies, how socio-economic issues affects

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scientific research, information, distribution, and social behavior.

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It examines the condition for modern census emerges in a small fraction of human society, its growth in different societies, the impact of social surrey, economic, political and religious institutions and the class system on scientific work.

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the scientists role and the structure of laboratory groups, disciplinary organizations and scientific

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societies. Evolution of scientific knowledge.

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economic and social theories are applied in scientific knowledge of evolution

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to provide a distinct perspective

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institutionalism and evolution underpin economic ideas, sociological theories derived from social studies of science, which have transformed our understanding of science and technology.

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Economics and sociology are employed in science and research to understand complex institutions.

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Many theorists

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believe that science is neither an institution nor an order that emerge is the result of deliberate and willful design.

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Now, is it

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like a normal market? But they admit that science has right of market others and designed others

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similar to economic system and science progresses

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origin of the sociology, science, and technology. People have always been rationated by social relationships. The Greeks distinction between pieces

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that is, nature and norms.

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law or custom, like the ground, or for sociology, laws, and traditions, limits the human behavior, while nature.

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our pieces was what emerges from itself.

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You thought human intervention. Sociological norm comes from Greek norms narrow.

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Here are daughters, proto anthropological stories documented the major differences in the normos of

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ancient

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Mediterranean societies indicating that human social life was yet human creation.

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If human

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social existence were biological or human, or

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cultures would be the same.

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Socrates, later, and Aristotle were concerned with the ideal human society

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because of this ethical tension between human nature and human rules

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rational but unnatural. The ideal community

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in the thirteenth century Chinese historian, Martin Lynn, first defined social dynamics as a

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driving factor of history. In his important encyclopedia, general study of literary remains and examined change, state administration, history through institutional analysis. The first sociologist was there.

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Tunshin Berger, scholar Ibn Karl, done

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an introduction to history, goes behind descriptive history to assess historical development, based on its insight into the nature of things that are born of civilization.

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His research contrast on city life with the

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Bedonin and barbar nomadism.

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Namads created social relationships based on blood dance history and a script Decrop

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to endure the hard dessert life. Modern sociology emerged in the nineteenth century Martin science from the sixteenth century onward

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the American and French revolutions and the industrial revolution

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in the eighteenth century inspired sociology. These events gave rise to

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societ.

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August camp, and Karl Marx needed a rational and scientific understanding of society and its processes to restore order to societies.

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distinguish in our promot or revolutionary transformation. Early social scientists define society. In this way

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modern science has advanced to sociology behind moral, philosophical, and theological reflections on the human condition.

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science grave

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from the technological mindset that Max Weber

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double to that

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this enhancement of the world. Eventually there are no mysterious.

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incalculable forces that come into play, but rather one can

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in principle monitor all things by calculation.

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Modern science, combined of Plato's rationality with Aristotle's empiricism. Rationalists, like Galileo and Newton, excel at the mathematical reasoning. Empiricism finds world principles through careful and or possible observations.

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Humans transform the world then world when democracy emerged in the eighteenth century, medieval Society's rigid Iraqi was human, created, and could be challenged and

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altered. Democracy made society historical and human, made

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lark. Voltaire, Montago, Russo created a general principles to describe social existence.

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They moved from aristocratic history to everyday life.

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Mary will stone Clarks want to be with by me some time

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to

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the industrial revolution was the development of industrial productions process. the introduction of industrial technology and the arrangement of labor to serve new manufacturing system.

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wage labor, capitalist competition, increase your mobility, urbanization in dualism and cause of social. For, like poverty, exploitation, dangerous working conditions, crime.

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health problems as our family and other traditional support networks

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come, Christopher.

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Now philosophy of sciences, social effects are grown since 1970. S. Philosophical naturalism, social terminology, and science and technology disputes promote this field. Several parallel field fields study centers and their social, economic, and institutional anonymous.

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Since 1980 S. Scientific conflicts and social elements of research have raised various philosophical issues.

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Science has encouraged philosophers to studies, trust, cognitive interdependency, and cognitive labor

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in response to the shifting role of scientific inquiry in the twentieth and 20 first centuries

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philosophers have tried to adopt the tenable discoveries of sociologists and cultural historians are types to change traditional etymological notions by using scientific knowledge. These studies expand information and location, comprehension, individual basic social terminology which views

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testimony and disagreement as transfer transactions between individuals and social etymologists.

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that we have social relations. Our interaction has

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particularly partially conservative of empirical nets must meet.

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Thank you. Thank you on. And that.

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Thank you. Professor Ranj. Napa, for a presentation. I would like to call upon Nicholas Square

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from General to present his paper.

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Okay.

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Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming. It's late on the Friday. yeah. As I, as you said already. my name is, I am today presenting a presenting work from my PC, this is a paper that I'm this is second paper of my Phd, that is all right. Also uploaded to the conference server. So if you're interested it's up there, you can read it. yeah, my! My work is on Alexa, like the the voice assistant from Amazon.

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and I do work on. Let me set a timer for a second. and I do work on the smart home mainly, and how Alexa controls it, and hence the title voice Assistance at the center of the smart home, and how Alexa controls the smart home.

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yes. So first let me give you give you a really quick primer what I think about when I think about this more home. there's more home. It's like made out of things like routers smart lights, store locks, entertainment systems. you get the idea? the problem with these things is, and this is what I like to call the clutter of the smart home.

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that these are different, that these are objects that are made by different companies, different manufacturers that don't share their standards. The communication between this devices are oftentimes very hard which is the reason why

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like these little bridge devices or hubs have to be installed in the home. so that these devices can, can, can talk to each other, and you don't need 5,000 apps to control your home if you have, like a lot of devices.

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which is where voice assistance. so are supposed to come in. They are supposedly in. This is the marketing speech, the central interface that offers intuitive voice control and serves as a universal connection point for all of these smart home devices. That's the that's the idea, right? so you don't need the bridges anymore. And that's where I took the the case study of Amazon, which is the leader in the voice. voice assistant sector.

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quickly, I'll go over to my method and the data that I that I'm going to use to talk about this. I analyze blog posts between 2,019 and 22. this is a blog post. The Alexa developers block device manufacturers. Block, that's that's what it's called where Amazon tells basically companies what they are working on, and the standards that they are bringing to Alexa so that the companies like

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which are called which I will call oems or original equipment manufacturers. These are the people who would make a smart, light bulb, you know, these companies, so that they know what is coming up for in the Alexa ecosystem.

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and I analyzed before I go on I analyze only the technical post, so I only looked at, what are they actually building, and how are they going to do it?

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And I asked myself, what are the initiatives taken by Amazon to ensure that technology is developed by oems. Again, original equipment manufacturers adept into the Alexa ecosystem. That's The idea.

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Okay? First, before we dive into the data, into the analysis. this is a quick, quick reminder of the theory that I use, which is first infrastructure of theory from a Cs, so the idea of that. These voice systems can act as infrastructure for the developers, but they also access an infrastructure for the users in the smart home to control the smart home, and which always comes with power, hierarchy. like Sds theory, standard things right?

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and, on the other hand, platform theory, which is also probably very well annoying. inequalities come when these platform technologies aren't developed. Basically, that's you know, you know, the drill. okay, let's first, let's get into this beautiful model. It is important to say that it's it's a model, right? It's not the model

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of smart home. technology development. This is something I came up with during this analysis and in the papers, of course, a lot more detailed. The descriptions that I'm gonna make now are fairly like reduced due to time.

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But please bear with me First, we're gonna look at the we're gonna we have 3 entities here that we that we have following basically in the development cycle, which is one, the users and the other hand Amazon. And then the oems. We're gonna start with the users. which are essentially right. They are the people who buy the devices, and they are deciding which devices are good for them. like, you know, Mark, normally not market section. And this is the process that happens on the on the left.

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and because Alexa or the voice. Assistants are supposed to control the smart home

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the functionality of smart home devices is like intertwined with the voice assistance to a certain degree, because if the if a device doesn't work very well, and if your whole smart home doesn't work well, very well, then, that might reflect back on Alexa and on Amazon, which is the reason. And this is an important thing to keep in mind. Why Amazon is interested in making sure that these devices work well

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with Alexa in that sense. And this is how we and this is the the the core thing that we're gonna that that I'm gonna Talk about how they do this. and the the main idea for that is the question of configuring the user. It's a pre old Scs theory, actually. And we just the the idea of preparing the users for a certain way that it's talking about. The technology is supposed to be used.

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 and this is what we find for what I found in the blog post essentially, and while looking at this, I saw, I found that they very carefully construct a certain norms of con, of comfort. that users are supposed to expect, and to our 2 that are, that I want to bring home our Amazon self, proclaimed customer obsession, which is the idea of Amazon saying that they want to be the best for the customer. Right?

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And, on the other hand, there. It's the frustration-free services idea, which means that they want to have none of the whole friction of the smartphone. They want it. Reduce the clutter

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and they do this by statements like these, which are like they. they repeat, are repeated in the, in the documents a million times in a different and variations. Alexa provides the familiar experience to customers they already know and love many customers. Now see Alexa integration as a minimum requirement for smart home products. This is almost like propaganda right? which is Amazon telling these companies that Alex Alexa is unavoidable in this in a sense.

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and here this is how they configured 2 types of users at once first. they tell the users of the smart home

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that they have to expect perfect interconnectivity, and everything is smooth, and, on the other hand, they tell the device makers that you just expect this, and hence they are supposed to achieve this right, and where you see this, this. This is why I thought about this frustration, free prophecy. as I said, self fulfilling prophecy because they essentially force that down upon everybody. The idea, at least.

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okay, let's see how Amazon does that

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Amazon, of course. develops Alexa as a central IoT platform instead of things platform and they shaped and set standards. I don't know if you can actually read that. Is that okay in the back?

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Not at all. I'm reading. I'm basically reading out the the things, anyway. So don't worry. Amazon develops Alexa as a central IoT platform. they shape and set certain certain standards for the smart home in that sense, and they offer a device integration which will come to right later.

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and how they do that is mainly by these certificates that they offer, and they also advertise these 2 users.

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and these are kind, and and also by setting requirements for for the developers. It's first look at the certificates that they that they have. It's things like this. You don't have to read the text, but you see, these little badges that this is like things that they show on amazon.com. If you want to buy a smart plug, whatever it can have these little badges, and it's like a certificate that says, Amazon says this, this is good, and they they're called, for example, certified for humans.

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which is my favorite one. Then they also have works with Alexa and frustration free. These are the 3 main certificates. And it's like very, very technical, complicated standards that these these companies, these oems can achieve if they want to. if they want to have this like this good integration, on the one hand, and other hand, also this advertisement. Right? Because you have a better product product

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in that sense.

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yeah. And this is like in the middle it. This is the I, the either my, my core idea of orchestration, which is influencing those who whom the platform Omaha Amazon cannot control. The fun like the key function of governance is therefore, to provide a context in which distributed innovation driven by app developers, can emerge around the platform.

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Not not for us. Hopefully. that's the that's the idea behind. That is like it's a form of soft control, right? It's because they they are not. Amazon cannot directly influence all of these companies, because they're not in the same company. Obviously and how they do this is one. The expectations that I showed you earlier, like Alexa should be in every device. That's what customers want.

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and they have these certificates. that I showed you now, and the next thing that they that Amazon also does is they offer infrastructure for these for these device, manufacturers to implement one

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 which we're gonna take a look at now.

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first not don't read the text yet. They the oems on the on the right side. They are, of course, influenced by all of these initiatives by Amazon, and they innovate, develop, and build smart home technologies. They achieve standards. so that they're competitive. And they also include Amazon infrastructure, which is the thing we're seeing here on the right

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with the Ack ack, is Alexa connect Kit, which is like a little chip. that you can, that these companies can buy. And it's like it takes away a lot of things that they have, that that companies usually have to do a lot of work for

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which is so you you see, in a quote which, with the A/C, you don't need to ride in the exos, scale an app, manage a cloud service or develop complex networks and security firmware to connect your product to Alexa and set you integrate and hardware model into your product. And

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so you buy the chip. You put it in your device. You're done. That gives, of course, a lot of control to Amazon over what your product can do, how, how it's like the information it sends away. The information retrieves. all these things, and of course we would not be. I would not be talking about platform platform studies when it wasn't benefiting at Amazon in the end. Right?

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when we combine the the 2, like the the smart home devices developed by the oems and Amazon on the other side. Alexa. we have the smart what I call the smart home, Alexa smart home ecosystem, because these are the devices that are compatible with Alexa and other words, others aren't right

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erez agmoni. And this is where the this whole market idea comes in that that is inherent to platforms, because, of course, there's also other companies that do voice assistance that are interested in a smart home, and they are trying to compare, obviously competing 150.

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And with these certificate certificates Amazon is ensuring to give incentive to build with Alexa or Amazon's standards, at least in mind. So that at least, if a product is compatible with Google as well, it is probably by now also competitive with Alexa

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and, on the other hand, these badges, and especially the developer tools and the chip that I talked to that meant briefly mentioned. They colonize a future market. Because if you don't, as a company don't build up the the, the competent system to build up these like network technologies, and all of that.

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you outsource it right, and you you become dependent on on Amazon for all of your products in the rest of your life as a company unless you start developing your own competences.

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yeah, and I will zoom very soon conclude. the last idea here, which is why this is a circular model is, of course, the better these work together, the more appealing kinda is the smart home like the excess mat home compared to the Google Smart Home, for example.

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 and all of this interoperability gives Amazon, gives, like the the customers, a lot of choice. But, on the other hand. Also, it gives Amazon a lot of users. which is why they're interested in this. So they want to make this pro these products good so that they have a hold on the market. In a sense.

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and what I'm what I'm imagining is that there? Because they're heavily investing in in making these ground technologies for the smart home is that they're like investing in this idea of the smart home for the future, because it's not really there yet it's let's be real. it is. It's mostly like, well, the are technology persons that have this. But in the future they imagine it to be very different.

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which

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2 last concluding hypotheses with the with with which I'm going to leave you first. One is the idea like to to establish Alexa as a infrastructure of the smart home which will continually keep to keep improving these devices, and also and in that sense also, Alexa, because these companies give data back to Amazon, which then feeds back into the development. You know the cycle

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And the second idea is that Amazon uses utilizes Alexa as a development infrastructure especially with machine learning. because

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Alex is heavily integrated with all the other Amazon services, and they are in turn integrated into this smart home devices. It's a, it's a very, very big data gathering. And like, algorithmic model development cycle which Amazon has set up.

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And yeah. with that I'm going to leave you. Thank you.

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And thank you.

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The presenter has done his job brilliantly by following

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appropriate methods, including theoretical approaches.

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Of course it's a great thing to watch out, for. Well, he has drawn some fascinating finds as well.

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We will press it for discussion later.

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Now I want to check whether Vasuda is available online for us. Yes, sir.

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she was available.

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Vasudha M C: Yes, yes.

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bring her online.

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Good.

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Vasudha M C: So the please proceed.

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Vasudha M C: Okay, it's very long. You know. The the session is not too long, I guess, and if I missed, you know the first, you know the presentations. no, it's afternoon. I guess it it. It must be evening there

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Vasudha M C: anyway. Thank you so much for giving an opportunity

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Vasudha M C: for all of the dignitaries who was presented there, and my topic for 2 days, you know, the presentation would be that jaming the soft, you know the deskboard is on. Can I share it on my screen.

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Vasudha M C: There it comes. That's

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is it physical?

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Vasudha M C: Is this visible?

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Vasudha M C: Hi.

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is this visible?

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Try again?

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Vasudha M C: No, it's already shared. He's coming on this.

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Vasudha M C: Hey, David?

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Vasudha M C: Okay, I can present you totally. No problem. Okay, no problem. Okay. Now, this is, you know, with related to, you know, taming the soft and and the deskotism, the regulation of the big tech industries in India. So what is this? You know the desperation that we are referring to in case if you are going going back to the history

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Vasudha M C: like, you know, what is the meaning of? You know the desk? What is I in history? It is, you know, the the term is joined by Lord in a Hebrew is this Chief Justice of in England, and is in a book. He also mentioned that a system of the government in which you know the rural rulers as unlimited. You know the power. So what is that? You know the you know the the world that would be dictated to

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Vasudha M C: ship or autocracy. Now, in case if you're referring, you know the same, you know the desk. What is zoom today? What is this you know the meaning. Open a soft and a desk autism for the present. In this scenario it is a network of, you know, small, complicated in other room rules. So what is this? You know the rules again, first of all, rules in India. It is a complicated and it is considered to be, you know the rules for fools. But again, it is a one more

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Vasudha M C: allocated rules, and again term by Alex, d. well, in So this is, you know with regard to you know the information, what I'm trying to analyze, you know, through this into the paper.

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Vasudha M C: In our, you know information. You know that

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Vasudha M C: age. It is, you know, dominated by, you know, the big tech. you know, the companies that offers instance use access to unlimited information. So you can see both. You know the negative. And again, the positive part of you know, information with you to access and access, you know information. It also leads some kind of another problematic

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Vasudha M C: pro, particularly which, you know, hinders, you know, the cognitive level of another person, and especially with the students. And again, in case if you look at in the right part of another information. Yes, you know some somewhere, you know it is accepted. So we it belongs to this generation where? you know the

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Vasudha M C: the previous another generation. We wanted all that information, and again, we are using it right now. But in the next upcoming. You know the generation. I don't think so. This much of the information which is we are getting, you know, all over, which is in a not required. So we have in a lot of you know, the policies, you know, rules, and I in the regulations, which is, you know, importance, so that I'll be discussing, you know later. Now, this, you know what happens. What is the sort of negative impact what happens in case, if information is, you know, overlooked

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Vasudha M C: when information no overload occurs, when the amount of you know input to a system exceed, it's processing, you know, the capacity. So what happens in case if you the processing, you know, the capacity increases. You know the decision makers have fairly unlimited in a cognitive, you know, processing capacity. And again, it leads to reduction in the decision quality will definitely occur

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Vasudha M C: and which drain, since judgmental ability of another person affects our, you know, focus. And it makes us, you know, the less efficient because our minds get, you know, tired after an excessive in a mental processing. And it is always, you know, says that more information leads to more confusion and information. Anxiety. So this is, you know, with related to magazine, newsletter journals.

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Vasudha M C: post books. Whatever we have, at least we have a count. But how to deal with another millions of the pages which is there on the, you know web. And again.

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Vasudha M C: 100 of you know the emails phone call. I mean, phone calls text messages. In case if you lose, you know the devices, whatever it is stored. We are, you know, completely losing our, you know that completing of the data. So there was another time we used to re register we have we used in a store. Remember everything in our, in the mind. But in case if you lose, you know your device. Entire life is, you know, gone. That is what you know. The generation, you know here.

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Vasudha M C: you know right now and again, what is the other? You know the serious issues? there are, you know, the many recommendations you know it, which is in a made, you know, worldwide

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Vasudha M C: to overcome. You know this kind of the data overload. But this regulations, you know the policies. And again, the agencies like ICT, try and again, information. And again, a technology. you know the what is this act? 2,000

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Vasudha M C: each and every another country as its own, you know ICT policies. But who is, you know, managing, you know efficiently. That is what you know the beginning of the question in case if you make a compassion between, you know India. And again, the Japanese, you know efficiently managing, you know, because they don't want you to do much information so that you know it can spoil into the entire. You know the youth, or you know, even if they do want, if they are not ready to accept under your information also.

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Vasudha M C: So it is, you know, completely, not the balance, the way their policies, you know, being successfully implemented. So in this, you know the paper I'm trying to make. And my argument how in a big tech in the industries in India try to control monitor often, and the citizens, you know at the moment financial affair which we call it as another soft in the despotism. At present you know this scenario so earlier. You know the Colonial in of the period.

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Vasudha M C: you know the colony, how we know the colony colonize and other people, and again, they'll try to control our actions, and again, even thought process as well. But now this is in a indirect way of you know, neo colonism, you can, you know. Call it. They try to, you know, control through the big tech, you know the other companies.

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Vasudha M C: And here, this is a soft, you know that desperately is viewed as a routine and again normal. But it is posing a serious threat to individual and the liberty privacy, and I guess 3 down to thing. Now, this Indian in the Constitution is guaranteed

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Vasudha M C: under article in the 19 the right. You know the freedom. There are 6, you know, the freedom, which is, you know, there, along with the reasonable and restrictions.

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Vasudha M C: But is it, you know? Are we? Are we? We are, you know, just a fulfilling, or or are we, you know, really not just taking, you know, the fullest advantage of you know the Constitution, or are we utilizing it? That is another question, because whenever any violations happens with related to the 6 type of another freedom, we'll definitely know. Go and again ask our world again in a file. That case against

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Vasudha M C: anybody with related to violations of you know the the fundamental, you know the right. But in case if it is mentally, you know just your freedom is, you know, taken away, or you know your direct indirectly, not just controlled by X. Y. Z. In other companies. whom you know just contact. So that is also, you know the the threat, you know, for us. And this is another soft, you know, a desk autism it is, you know.

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Vasudha M C: one more in the example I just wanted to give. You see, whenever we think about, you know stitching

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Vasudha M C: fabric, or in case if you want to stitch in a one suit the minute, you just even, you know, think, and I can search. You know Google. All the information is already there, and most important thing is N number of you know the buttics addresses locations as well as you know, the charges. And you know, the the design is in number of another design is already there in front of you. So where is you know the the level of another cognitive, the thinking, you know, the capacity where

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Vasudha M C: I really want to teach my own, the suit, or whatever another dress it is, you know, being, you know, taken away. And again, you have no choice, you know, other than you know. Whatever the choice is, you know, given by X. Y. Z. You know the information which is already there. So what kind of another problem that we are, you know, facing, you know right now, as in the human being we should not be not controlling it. We should not be controlled by machines, for sure.

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May I ask you to conclude

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Vasudha M C: so? I we just started now. Oh, no, there is not. We are running out of time. Please

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please make it fast.

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Vasudha M C: Okay, so this is, you know, with related, you know the the budget. okay, anyway. Now, we

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Vasudha M C: what is how you know this kind of you know the information, the the too much information can be control. So we need a all that in the you know, the the countries they have their own ICT and other policies. But in India it is in a not

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Vasudha M C: manage, you know, in appropriate, you know the way. And again, there is a lack of you know the implementation. The strict implementation is also needed with related to. I see it in other policies. Now and again, there are so many regulator regulations agencies, you know, with related to telecommunication sector in India and broadcasting the broader. what is that type? Spectrum and cyber in other space information technology?

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Vasudha M C: So this is, you know, with related. You know the conclusion, my one of the findings, you know, the script implementation of Itc policies. You know very much. You know the required. And again policy and education, so preparing you with the to prepare youth to participate clearly in the establishment. And also, you know, the charging, you know, for each and every you know the the prop service. You know, the provider, whether they want to give information you need to charge.

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Vasudha M C: or whether you need to use. You know, information you need to charge? Yeah, in some point I I can agree. the the students who are coming with the very, you know, who are in a background they cannot afford. I'm not in a saying that, but at least they should, you know, give you the minimal information which is in a needed free access. But apart from that, they can, you know,

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Vasudha M C: charge for each and everything. Then, you know, the information can be intact. And again, the regulations policy, can you know, though? work efficiently? Thank you so much.

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Okay.

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thank you. The Kosova, for joining us on virtual mode and

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presenting your rules. Please don't go away. You need to answer the questions. If there are. join us

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during our discussion session.

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Well, now, I may call upon Spencer Adams.

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Spencer Adams: Hello! Let me see if I can. There. does that look good on everyone's end?

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Looks great.

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Spencer Adams: Okay, I'm just gonna go for it.

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Spencer Adams: So my talk is called scientific labor and the category of subscription.

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Spencer Adams: And to start I will again.

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Spencer Adams: So Thomas Coon famously described the normal scientists as a puzzle solver. Ideologically, the scientist was hemmed in by paradigmatic norms of the scientific discipline.

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Spencer Adams: but if only implicitly in Coon's account

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Spencer Adams: as a professional, they had a certain autonomy, and choose much open problems to take on, and how it pools of resources and a set of imperatives intrinsic to the advancement of knowledge within a different disciplines. Given paradigm

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Spencer Adams: as science became more normalized, expansive, and entrenched in contemporary society, Koons figure of the normal scientists has become less characteristic of those working in the sciences.

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Spencer Adams: not because scientists are no longer concerned with cuny and puzzle solving. Rather the social organization of science has shifted scientific activity, appearing less and less like a rarefied space of intellectual production, and more and more like any given managed workplace. Normal scientists existing only one and usually a higher up layer of workers. It's the stakes of this transformation that this talk is concerned with and for which I'll characterize science as having undergone a process of real

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Spencer Adams:  So I'm going to skip

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Spencer Adams: more precisely defining subsumption. But just note that it's a marketing category that describes the active redirecting a hitherto non capitalist labor process toward the production market cost commodities. Not real subsumption specifically describes. the point when the character of the labor process is zoomed under capital. so it's the labor process itself is altered in its appearance, content, organization, time disciplining and the like.

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Spencer Adams: So the aim of this paper is to treat scientific activity as a social labor process. The in much of the Anglophone sphere is really subsumed by capital.

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Spencer Adams: To think in these terms, this to suggest that scientific activity should not be thought of at present, essentially through the figure of the established scientists heading the process of intellectual production over which they have a certain economy, i. E. Kun's puzzle solver, a normal scientist.

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Spencer Adams: rather scientific activity looks more and more like a hierarchically managed labor process with workers varying degrees of institutional security, accreditation, etc.,

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Spencer Adams: carrying out the central material tasks, usually at the direction of a primary investigator who functions as a kind of manager of the process, usually towards an end that is perhaps beneficial to the pi, or to an overseeing institutional body, and that is also alienated or externalized from the activities, the working people and the scientists in the sciences themselves.

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Spencer Adams: scientific activity implicates funding bodies to whom grant grant applicants are to a a certain degree beholden with imperatives that, at least in the case of the Us. Are often at the overall. We're supposed to lie with private enterprise or with us state interests. these bodies act as a kind of layer of capital that can attempt to direct research activities.

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Spencer Adams: and at the granular scale. The real subsumption of scientific activity means that much of it happens in most proximity to employment contracts with or without certain kinds of worker protections, benefits, wage standards, and often, according to certain different layers of time to

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Spencer Adams: What's particularly interesting

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Spencer Adams: for me about the category of assumption? Perhaps. So you could say it uniquely describes among works in critical categories is the relative autonomy. Individuals or groups involved in a production process have over their time, not just in an absolute sense of the level of times, rhythms and ways of being organized in person, that

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Spencer Adams: So in Rex it scraps the factory, the apotheosis of industrial production. He dwells in the embodied and central reality is at the capitalist mode of production. And so you have a quote here which sort of is indicative of that? That's because what's at state here, along with and implicating the particular cruelty and dangers of factory work, is a dramatic shift in the phenomenology of labor.

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Spencer Adams: What subsumption ultimately entails, then, is an intervention and phenomenology of labor? and to to treat scientific activity in terms of subsumption, then implies thinking about the phenomenology of activity.

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Spencer Adams: Our workers in a lab, field or other setting with scientific research experientially related to their objects and settings of research. In some sense prior to you, were independent of the intellectual framings or knowledge that us are sort of

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Spencer Adams: be a sensible product of that research more simply, what are the conditions under which scientific labor is carried out.

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Spencer Adams:  and this gets me to another major claim of this paper, and this will sort of be a pivot within the paper to a central concern, namely, the generalized real subsumption of scientific activity and the conditions it creates opens up new pathways for organizing among proletarianized layers of scientific researchers.

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Spencer Adams: undergraduate and graduate workers, post-docs, even pis and cases where their interests come into conflict with that of funding bodies or administrative layers of institutions that mediate their funding acts.

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Spencer Adams: this is evident and emerging and ongoing mediaization and strike campaigns across America and the Uk, including the new graduate student Researchers Union at the Institute. Great unions and institutions like, you see. Do you see one being among the most visible in the us for the last couple of years.

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Spencer Adams: And here I'll know just a few aspects I wish to draw out of some research. I did this past November and December, while on strike at Uc. Berkeley, in conjunction with the Uc wide undergraduate graduate and postdoc academic worker, strike that lasted roughly 6 weeks

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Spencer Adams: over the course of the strike. I spoke to dozens of academic workers and the sciences about their working conditions, their research and connections. They drew between their experiences, organizing in and around or participating in the strike, and how they think about their research.

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Spencer Adams: Several interesting things came out of this. well, I'll try to distill them into a few broad observations

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Spencer Adams: versus the scientific practice or her scientific practitioners organized, and in struggle as workers frequently recognize the kind of free framing that I've aimed to kind of build up in this paper.

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Spencer Adams: It was a common refrain among those I spoke to, even when they were otherwise might have been resistant to thinking in terms of the contingency of scientific knowledge itself, that they had come in conceiving themselves as worker to a new relationship to their work

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Spencer Adams: most bluntly, that they were first and foremost doing a job as much as, if not more so than pursuing some kind of grand human endeavor towards the further production of

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Spencer Adams: at times. This was articulated further in terms of frustration with working conditions and quality of life sacrifices that came with that job as a sense of alienation, in some cases very directly distilled into distinctions, and in the work they eventually to do, and what they are directed by their pi to do from day to day, and week to week.

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Spencer Adams: or as a newfound recognition of their pi as a kind of boss related to them across distinctive class lines, especially in cases where that P. I. Had been particularly averse to their organizing work.

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Spencer Adams: whether they have the language of subsumption or not. Workers in the sciences, when perceiving themselves as workers, perceive scientific activity as a as as a zoomed process, a wage job.

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Spencer Adams:  So, before getting into a few further points. I want to draw out from the responses of this I spoke with. I want to reframe these. What I want to frame these upcoming points in terms of the last and perhaps most crucial argument. I want to posit in this

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Spencer Adams: the generalized real assumption of scientific activity under capital and the experience of work in the sciences. This produces are useful frameworks for science and technology scholars, as they tied directly to points of material and epistemological contingency in the scientific process.

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Spencer Adams: how science is subsumed, but also how that subsumption is organized and struggled against, have stakes, for what shape the intellectual products and epistemological frameworks of contemporary science. Take

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Spencer Adams: for what scientific knowledge is pursued, and for how scientific knowledge is folded, folded into larger social concerns.

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Spencer Adams: with that I want to draw 3 lessons in particular, and I'll try to go through these quickly.

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Spencer Adams: mit ctl. And first was a matter of distinctions drawn by interlocutors between public and privatized science, found this distinction came up in particular among postdoc workers, and particularly at the Ucsf campus, which specializes in biomedical research, and what you see on the left here one

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Spencer Adams: There are multiple people I spoke with articulated the stakes of striking in terms of securing working conditions that would make, continuing to work in a public institution with it

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Spencer Adams: in tandem. With this for concerns of over what it meant, that public employees in the sciences were being increasingly led over to private firms, especially biomedical and biotechnology firms. a bleeding of top researchers away then, away, then, from what was understood in the context of public institutions as research that common good.

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Spencer Adams:  second, I want to note

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Spencer Adams: material shifts and how workers came to see the resources they work with

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Spencer Adams: Among all the academic workers on strike, questions emerged in particular for physical and life scientists over the physical and living materials of their research and the relation of these materials to the generation of value within the university.

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Spencer Adams: Practical consideration, such as, should I keep the living into these like rats to keep my labs that my labs research relies on alive, and if so, In my breaking the strike, become became vexed and highly debated aspects of the strike and brought attention to the not always straightforward ways of aging. What value generation in the sciences looks like.

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Spencer Adams: There's among researchers in the sciences struggling to term to determine the best ways of blocking flows of capital within the university through their strike actions. that we saw what we're called guests. It's blockades of material delivery trucks. which emerged as a core tactic for starving laboratory research, projects of crucial resource resources.

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Spencer Adams: all to say, in either of these cases the material constitution of scientific knowledge, production rose to the fore as the contingency of material access and viability.

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Spencer Adams: And so a final lesson.

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Spencer Adams: I want to draw, considers a few comments among those I spoke to that raised the question of Radical.

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Spencer Adams: while the majority of scientists I spoke to were reticent, to speak to epistemological questions directly. A few interlocutors, namely, those otherwise already politicized prior to the strike, were keening or keen on noting an investment in Marxian, anarchist and other radical refrain

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Spencer Adams: epistemological foundations of their disciplines. The Marxist biologist, Richard Lowington, came up most often among those I spoke to one in trade Lock Theater, a gradual research and theoretical physics highlighted reason and revolt by the Marxist theorist on Woods, and Ted Grant as a work that directly informs his own thinking as a physicist.

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Spencer Adams: A further interlocutor in molecular biology claimed that his research was foundational to his belief in the scaling up of decentralized and autonomous systems which he brought to a wider historical and political interest. Anarchism.

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Spencer Adams: whatever one makes the specific contents of these rat, all of this small

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Spencer Adams: cosmologies, and though these kinds of prominent comments were anomalous to some degree.

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Spencer Adams: I note them because they pointed to a unique openness within the strike. To speak politically, about one scientific research for one of those I spoke with.

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Spencer Adams: He suggests to me that he hoped to stage on the ticket line, among other teach-ins, conversations and activities, a group conversation with Lab Lab Mates and others. In his research discipline on the politics of their work.

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Spencer Adams: the physicists. I spoke with a group setting with a mix of theoretical and experimental physicists from this department spoke directly to them and to me, to his concerns about physics, often and seemingly funding sources as a core.

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Spencer Adams: as workers agitated over the conditions of their work. These scientists, as workers agitating over the conditions of their work. These scientists hinted at the building blocks for a repoliticization of scientific research and scientific epistemology happening in tandem with efforts to build out worker organization.

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Spencer Adams: And this leads me to my concluding point.

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Spencer Adams: It's commonplace for Sts scholars to say that scientific knowledge is inherently political.

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Spencer Adams: It's equally common place for scientists themselves to at least initially presume and seek to defend the mutual apolitical quality of their work as against the claims of Sts and other scholars. in an era when much science, and perhaps academic research generally is captured to a degree by State capital. directed by often unseemly funding bodies. The Department of Defense, Big Tech Oil and gas industry, global logistics and the like.

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Spencer Adams: A politicize, a post epistemological openness that aims to reshape what science has done, through what frameworks and where it's products and results are socially directed, can emerge out of a recognition by proliferate nice research of their conditions as work.

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Spencer Adams: And this is in some sense part of the stakes of thinking science under the lens of

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Spencer Adams: And with that, thank you. And yeah.

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And well, thank you, Spencer Adams, for your wonderful efforts.

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Now I think it's a great experience to listen to all the presenters in this

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session.

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so, without which I mean, without wasting much of your time. now I quickly turn to discussion. Part

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now floor is open for discussion, to hope, or

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presenters are eager to answer your questions.

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Any queries of questions from

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yeah, you can.

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I have a question for Spencer. Actually, well, good. Spencer, can you hear me? Spencer?

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Yeah, okay, great thanks. So thanks. For first of all. Thank you so much for organizing the the panel, and, thanks to all the other panelists, it was really great to be part of this. So, Spencer. One thing that struck me, and I guess I wanted to. ask you about this first, though I have a clarifying question. Did I see on your opening slide. Are you a a Phd student?

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Spencer Adams: So I'm actually in transition. I just wrapped up at Berkeley, and I'm starting a post-doc in the fall at Lm, you need.

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Oh, well, first congratulations. So, okay. So my question, though, was about your research on the student strike.

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 I wanted to do. I wondered if you would

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address or talk about the tension of being a student researcher doing research on a student strike and thereby essentially breaking that strike by the function of doing that research. And I know there's time limitations. But I wanted to kind of. I'm sure this is something you've thought about. So I was curious if you had thoughts about that.

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Spencer Adams: Yeah, that's really funny. And I think very like good question. And it was something I was thinking about. and I guess I have a couple of thoughts on that.

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Spencer Adams: I guess I have a lot of thoughts on that. Actually, one is

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Spencer Adams: in general. The conversations I had with others.

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Spencer Adams: though I had my own sort of like research. Intentions also were mixed in with

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Spencer Adams: sort of like the active work of organizing within the strike. So there were conversations that I tried to meld together with

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Spencer Adams: like part of what being an organized worker is, which is just like

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Spencer Adams: talking to your workers about their conditions, and what will keep them on straight things like that? so there's an an effort to do some double duty with those conversations. and I would say the second part of this was, this was actually like a really fixed

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Spencer Adams: element of this. I was on strike, as in my capacity.

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Spencer Adams: a sensibly given my employment contract as an instructor, whereas a lot of, in fact, most of the people in the sciences were on strike in their capacity as researchers. so.

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Spencer Adams: on the one hand, these are somewhat arbitrarily, not totally arbitrarily, but someone arbitrarily

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Spencer Adams:  sort of applied designations.

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Spencer Adams: the are different ways of kind of like

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Spencer Adams: basically offering employment and then funding and funding people through the course of their Phd studies. On the other hand, this meant

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Spencer Adams: the what it meant to be on straight. What that meant for the ongoing progress of people's research activities, etc., was actually very uneven across different sectors of the University, which caused a lot of sort of like strategic debates and what not within the strike. but

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Spencer Adams:  I guess

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Spencer Adams: the the short answer is In some sense I was striking my teaching duties, but

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Spencer Adams: not not beholden necessarily to  cutting off my research all together.

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Yup, yeah, okay, great thanks. So much. I was just really interested in that. Thanks.

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thanks. Hi, Jenny, I have a question for you. I'm really interested in this failure in the Australian start up space.

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I feel anecdotally, anecdotally that we have a higher right of kind of

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big failure than perhaps one might expect. and I'm thinking specifically about milk run The collapse of that start up, and I was wondering if you could talk about the proportionality of failure. in the Australian startup market. Thank you.

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So we're not

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all right.

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Yeah.

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so thanks. So much for the question. so, as far as I know, and there's not great data but that across all Australia is pretty on par. From what I understand with the rest. in terms of about 90% of startups fail. And that's true here as well as as well as elsewhere.

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yeah, so that's happening. But I do think. And this is also not been verified with data. So it's just what a thing I think is a vibe that I'm getting from the research to is that there is that riskiness, that riskiness is partial in Australia, and the kind of ease of failing like I see people. I a lot of the people I spoke with kind of, backed out and failed and flopped her out, and then came back

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in ways that I'm not sure, necessarily true in other markets, and I think one defining future of Australia is partially socialized health care.

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And so there's and decent, relatively decent compared to if we're talking about Silicon Valley as the

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default culture of startup sectors, those people are working without a net like if they fail, there is no, there is no health care. There's no social safety net. And so I do think that there is something about Australia and the social safety net in built that doesn't necessarily foster more spectacular failures, but more kind of flops away, and you know more playing within the field.

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thanks so much to all the presenters. My question is directed towards Jenny. thanks so much for your wonderful presentation, Jenny. My question. I know your talk was framed around failure, but my question was around success, which is that implicit in these? in these kind of like okayness with failure is still an imagined idea of success. I wondered if you could speak to what they imagined as success.

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and I guess my question is kind of 3 or 2 or threefold in that. Do they imagine success like is success to be acquired

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if it's about acquired? Who do they want to be acquired by? And is there this kind of idea of wanting to be acquired by big Us. Tech. And does that kind of shape, this idea of them also wanting to mirror or mimic this kind of silicon valley values and ideology like, is there something about the ways in which capital is located, or like the the specific, huge forms of capital are located in particular places that also shapes the ways in which, like.

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I don't know, people, people perform certain ways of doing tech thanks.

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And so

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so one, I think your point is spot on. There is an imagine with the failure, there's an imagined success. And with the that failure, speed, ethos, there's an imagined success. And then what does that success look like? There's a good bit of variation. Silicon Valley is often a specter in that in those imaginings.

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though in divergent ways. So for some that's considered making it big time, right? I've been bought by a big tech firm where I've joined a big tech firm in the us and Silicon Valley for others. That is the altar against which they define themselves. These people think this is big time, but I actually want to do something Australian. Or I actually want to go to Europe because I don't want to deal with them. So it looms large but in different ways.

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Okay?

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yeah, just quickly on that. I did some some research in Germany on startups as well. And I also did like in-depth interviews.

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And we asking them also was, what is their idea of like? Why are they doing this? That was the primary like with a solutionist background? And then they also. They. We never asked this actively, but they always came up with the Silicon Valley from themselves.

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defining them like all of them, none of the German like it was. I think it was. We interviewed 56, or something in that margin. Startups! And none of them wanted to be acquired by a silicon valley, but they were all eager to be acquired by a German company

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which I thought was very interesting. Yeah, I I wanted to ask you as well, but a quick question. if you could. elaborate on the on the speed as a double standard. Really quick. Because I think I the speed as a double standard.

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Yeah. Have you read about anything by Mona Sloan? She's in a really good work in AI startups in Germany. That's why so you should be citing each other.

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a.

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So yeah. So the speed is a double standard. When you look at venture capital funders and at or really any of the kind of major investors or investors at all versus the founders. The expectation for founders is that they will go, that they will id develop and go to market quickly.

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But once it's once that's on the table, then the founders have to move really quickly and and bear the cost of it.

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I have a question for Nicholas is, did I get that right? Sorry I was like, I just started second guessing myself. I'm really interested in how the original technology manufacturers in this smart

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home system seem like, are they comfortable with ceding some of their intellectual territory to Amazon when they're buying the chip and putting it in. And is this, in your opinion, sorry this is double

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double-barreled. Is this, in your opinion, simply setting the stage for companies like Amazon, just to go in and kind of like, sweep up these sort of independent manufacturers.

433
01:20:16.510 --> 01:20:19.690
yeah, that's a great question.

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first. So I'm okay for 2 things from what I can say, from what like, the the reviews like. because

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Amazon always gives like these examples, they call it case studies? we of companies that give like opinions at them about the how they feel about the technology so that Amazon produces, and they are always obviously overwhelmingly positive. but what I'm what I'm currently doing is doing interviews with developers in in this space, and they are

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mostly comfortable as well. They're not like going away. They're not like, Oh, yeah, this is the best thing ever. But they see it as a necessary entry barrier, basically, because, as I said at the end of the at the presentation, it

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it it cuts down on on a lot of like innovation costs. So it's. And and because it's like these very small items, you know, the smart like this, most of the smart home is like really 2030, $50 items. And it's not. It's not. It's mostly not gigantic things. And that's why they they see the value in that And the second question, sorry

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to to come and grab everything. Yeah, true. I don't think so. That is, they. It is the it is like, if you look at it from from the from the typical silicon valley. perspective. It's the logical like conclusion, right? Because I you're you're so well assimilated to our system. Let's just buy you all, and that is like

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acquisition at a current company company acquisition as a as a business model. Isn't this very common? Right? But actually, I think, in the smart home sector. This is not true, because Amazon does very much not see itself as a device manufacturer. They've all they did that manufacture very few devices themselves. And they that's why they are invested in this like diversity thing, but that they are also

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outsourcing risk. Right.

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and that that's why they I don't think that they're going to buy up most of the things. So be honest. So

442
01:22:48.140 --> 01:22:58.899
so I have. I have 2 questions. Can I do 2 questions, one for you, and then I also have one for you, and then I also have one for Vasuda. faced. Are you still there?

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And it is very much that.

444
01:23:00.750 --> 01:23:03.040
Yeah. okay.

445
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okay. Well, yeah. I'm still, yeah. Oh, good. Okay, so just really, quickly. One thing that I wanted to to ask about in your presentation. So you focus on the information environment and regulation in India. And I wanted to. and I apologize. If I miss this, I wondered if there's something particular about the Indian context with information, regulation management, colonialism and control that's distinct from

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other global markets. Or if it's a exemplar of what we're seeing at

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at a global scale.

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Vasudha M C: See? every country has his own in ICT policies that you must be aware of is some.

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Vasudha M C: Then, you know, when it comes to India

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Vasudha M C: we have, you know, the agencies which regulates all this. You know the information which is axle X's

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Vasudha M C: And again, you know, the by, the minute you know the regulations come the policies, you know, that comes from an implementation. Even, you know the companies are giving you a free hand. So that is where now the information is in a promotion. And now to access, and we are unable to notice. what is this you know? Losing our in a judgmental, in the capacity?

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Vasudha M C: That is what another main argument is. we have to have in the strict implementation of the policies, particularly with the reference to the governing. You know the borders and like in agencies, and the Government should have, you know, the stripped of the rules and regulations particularly controlling all this and unwanted information which is not needed.

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Vasudha M C: Thank you.

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Vasudha M C: In the legislation through the

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great. Thank you. Thank you.

456
01:24:47.150 --> 01:24:51.419
Are you up in theoretical model to deal with your findings?

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Vasudha M C: So this is, yeah, theoretical model, in the sense it is all in a based on the second resources only, and the statistics I had at right now. But I'm unable to share it because of, you know some problem here.

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Vasudha M C: That is not because I have time constraint. I couldn't explain on that.

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I had one other question for you. So at the very, at the very end of your presentation you put forth 2 hypotheses.

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and I was curious. If those are actual hypotheses like, I'm going to operationalize and test these. And if so, how or if those are just sort of

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hunch is that you want to investigate further and research?

462
01:25:28.220 --> 01:25:42.950
Okay, I was so curious how you're gonna operationalize them. Yeah, how are you gonna measure it.

463
01:25:45.770 --> 01:26:07.740
hey? I'm I'm I'm not gonna operate like on a quantitative level. I don't think also, I don't think that. It's a just to remember to remind everybody it's like it, it. These are like hypotheses in the sense that I think that's what they're aiming at. because they don't say this right? And this is like guesswork. It is like a little bit of the

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qualitative work, because, of course, I'm gonna like, do work on this on these hypotheses qualitatively. But I can't. I can't operationalize that, because it's also the the idea of it is Alexa an an infrastructure for AI and development is like.

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who is gonna answer that that question, if you know, if you like, on a on a quantitative side. I don't know how, so no sorry.

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01:26:38.120 --> 01:26:39.450
Sure.

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See you, Jenny.

468
01:26:43.780 --> 01:26:46.270
I just wanted to

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get your thinking around. the sorry it's it's making me think of the Silicon Valley. What is it? Make things and break things that that

470
01:26:58.330 --> 01:27:05.450
so? I wondered why you didn't use that as the narrative, and I'd love to hear your perspective.

471
01:27:07.190 --> 01:27:19.790
so what kind of is the narrative in a in a lot of ways? So it was brought up really directly in many of the interviews that. And and I think it's just sort of part of popular, Laura. Now that the move past, move fast and break things. Mentality.

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introduced by Mark Zuckerberg, that's now diffuse and has just become became a rallying cry. And now I think, a cautionary tale at this point. But it was interesting within the even within the interviews it would be brought up as both a cautionary tale and an aspiration in the same interview by the same people. so it just figures in quite prominently and complexly. And I think this is

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failing fast, as a conceptual whole is sort of getting at that move fast. Break things. Way of being.

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Okay.

475
01:27:58.070 --> 01:28:00.049
Okay? Yeah.

476
01:28:02.430 --> 01:28:04.099
Okay, so

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so there is. There is a a backlash or movement like you've pointed out to that kind of philosophy. And it's sort of

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I guess it's in the sector. But obviously, I think what you're saying is that the sector sees the contradiction or the the sort of the hypocrisy in many ways of it. But

479
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they're not actually shifting the goal posts. So

480
01:28:32.940 --> 01:28:38.330
that's a statement I just want to sort of get you to talk more about that. Yeah.

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I'm not sure quite what to think about that yet, but I mean, I think it's really true. I think there's like it's a really

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Who does that movement? I think it has to come, because, especially in Australia, the accelerator scene is so embedded. There was not a single founder that I talked to who wasn't participating in accelerator programs and who hadn't. And as entrepreneurial curriculum are being embedded in universities. I think if we want to sort of change that whole goal post and mentality, we have to think about doing it in those places, but it also has to somehow be.

483
01:29:13.400 --> 01:29:32.390
And then there has to be a next generation of angel investors, etc., who have learned under those curriculums. So I don't think it's going to be to use. Maybe this ironic. I it's not going to be a fast pivot away from that. But I do think there's going to have to be kind of a a bit of a slow burn, and maybe even a generational attrition.

484
01:29:40.210 --> 01:29:41.170
Yeah.

485
01:29:43.440 --> 01:29:44.430
no.

486
01:29:48.240 --> 01:29:51.879
excuse me. You can ask your question now if you'd like.

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01:29:55.900 --> 01:29:56.780
Vasudha M C: Hi!

488
01:29:59.700 --> 01:30:00.890
Hello!

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Vasudha M C: this this question, you know to Mr. Khan who spoke about, and the corporate socially corporate and responsibility easier on.

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01:30:20.070 --> 01:30:21.280
Vasudha M C: am I audible?

491
01:30:22.020 --> 01:30:23.080
Yes.

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01:30:23.440 --> 01:30:29.170
Vasudha M C: Hmm. The first presenter who spoke about now, social cooperating responsibly.

493
01:30:34.610 --> 01:30:38.369
I don't think that's this session.

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Vasudha M C: Okay, so, okay, no problem. Thank you.

495
01:30:49.890 --> 01:30:53.470
Okay, thank you very much for your active participation.

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01:30:53.660 --> 01:30:57.020
your time and patience. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

497
01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:05.869
Because I need to attend another session I would like to end up. Thank you.