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thank you. Good morning. So my presentation is titled culture, religion, and the limit of human right legislation for persons with mental health programs in Ghana.

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But we have a background. Sorry because of time. I will rush a bit.

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This study is situated within the contest of what we call the prayer camps in Ghana.

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and programs are basically into Costa healing centers that are noted for

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their revival programs.

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and they are mostly led by individuals who acclaim themselves to be prophet or prophetess or evangelists.

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They are both residential and non-residential. What I mean by residential is that they've got a host of facilities that are able to house a number of people, sometimes over 2,000 3,000 people at a time. but they are very much noted for yeah, involvement and activities relating to individuals who are

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encountering mental health challenges or programs because these people go to these centers in search for solution to their health challenges. And the reason why they go to these places is because of the underlying

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cultural beliefs or perceive causes of mental illness, because most people believe that when they are encountering mental health programs is either being influenced by some sort of demonic.

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it's demonic afflictions, or they encounter in some sort of witchcraft witchcraft cases or witchcraft attacks, and so the aim of going to this place is to Go and see this. man of God.

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or women of world, who are believed to have got some sort of supernatural gift that enable them to diagnose the program, and then profess some solutions through a method of fasting and prayers and the sources.

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Now.

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why they have become a place of attention for human human rights activists, especially the Human Rights Watch organization in New York as well as the the United Nations Human Rights Council is how issues of abuse are mostly associated with the healing activities. And so, for instance, there's a belief that

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if an individual, you know, if an individual is a suffering from mental health problem, and it's the person is being inhabited by some sort of D one, and then that demon sometimes, I mean through the direction of a prophet, the person is being flocked, or or or hip. So in in an attempt to associate

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the demon from the person, and in the process some of these persons end up getting ahead. Some are also undergo some sort of false treatment without the consent. There is also, I mean, issues of force fastened and training.

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Now, if you look at my next slides, for instance, where the UN Human Rights Council have raised issues on the problem of shackling.

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There's also issues relating to some sort of a

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abuses that will lead to involuntary detention and and all that. If you look at my nest life, for instance, shackle for mental health conditions, and these are headlines that sometimes comes in relation to their

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to the A problem. There. There there has been a couple of attempts to resolve these challenges.

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and one include the person of the Mental Health act in Ghana, and this is one of it. Kind in sub-saharan Africa, because most of the countries in in Africa don't even have a mental health act to regulate mental health care in the country, which becomes, I mean, very difficult for some of these countries. Now Ghana, through the Uk Government, was able to pass

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this act in in 2,012, and one of the things that that seeks to do is to establish mental health tribunal. So that people who feel, yeah, right have been abused could go to these tribunals to to seek redress for some of the kind of programs that they are going through.

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There's also been a lot of educational campaigns in collaboration with this profit or these leaders of this to be able to address these challenges.

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currently there. There is some ongoing collaboration between health professionals and and fit helix, in order to educate them about the approach, so that they are not allowed to engage in some of these abuses that

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I'm being. I'm highlighting in this presentation.

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But one of the things that I think has become very problematic for me in terms of analyzing this whole issue is the approach that I think really limits this whole attempt to kind of promote human rights for these individuals.

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and the issue is that most of these attempt to address these mental health issues sometimes do not

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focus on aspect of culture and religion that is more or less connected to these abuses. And so there are several attempts. I mean, to promote human rights. To make human right promotion in order to address these challenges.

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It's not having the kind of resource that is being expected. Why? Because

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in some sense there seems to be some sort of confrontational approaches where some of these human right activities. They, they kind of attack these people, and they they feel that they are not being respected. There's also an issue of some etiquette issues here, in there, I mean moral issues, and then they see some of the attempt to kind of safeguard these people from the account as much as more or less confrontational, without giving respect to their own religion and fate. And so

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there is some limitations in all the attempt that has been done so far to address issue, and my argument is that

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if there can be some sort of

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improvement, some sort of approach, in order to

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get these programs resolved.

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then, issues of culture, issues of religion need to be engaged very well in terms of the policy directions in terms of the way that they see this they they look at addressing these issues. These people must engage

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There should be some sort of attempt to engage these fate helix, by addressing some of the entrenched religious positions that

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does not allow them to give chance for any sort of collaboration that in a way help in reducing some of these challenges, and so in in in in 20 2022, as part of my ph d. Work, I I published this article. From my Phd. Thesis prayer comes, Mental Health and human right concerns in the general of religion in Africa.

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and one of the argument I I made in this article

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was that the article maintains that it may assistance of human right legislation. To protect the right of mental health patients is not enough if it feels, to recognize the religious dimensions, that is, the beliefs, fit or transcendental orientation of the people who are the target of such legislation. And so there is, there should be that attempt, if not every effort to kind of

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promotes or legislates laws.

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In order to address these issues will only be some, some sort of a mirage, because a lot of clinical psychologists a lot of, I mean I mean specialists in this area who are writing also from clinical perspective, have argued that even if the government of Ghana has enough money to build hospitals

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To house people with mental health challenges the fact that there's a belief that draws people to these centers. You you cannot, I mean, end up getting them out of this place and and that there's there's there. There should be a cognition for these sort of religious

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approaches in order to maintain some effective way of resolving these kind of challenges that we currently see in relation to people with mental health in Ghana. Thank you.

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Thank you very much, Francis, and thank you for a very

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sharp use of time.

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Now we have the presentation of a

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therapeutic assemblage, assemblages and tensions between health and religion. Migrants, experiences in Mexico. I will let you know when you will have 3 min left.

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Thank you.

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Good morning, everyone. Thank you for being here in this session.

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and

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well, I will start because time is running, so I would like to have enough time to to talk about this topic that we and all God just have been researching in the last years.

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and I will give first a little bit about the background of the situation of migrants in Mexico and specifically in Northern Mexico, where we have been conducting the research in Tijuana.

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It's a city very close to

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California for those that do not identify where Tijuana is, and the current situation of migrants is that globally there has been an incremental increment on migration policies that are making the mobility experiences more precarious for these people because of the

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difficulty of continuing their journeys when they are trying to get to a specific destination place, and all the barriers that are exposed on them.

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which makes the the mobility hard, and they get into a condition of a strandedness. What we have been talking and other authors have discussed as a condition of force, immobility, or being as stocked in movement as well, which is being suspended as well in time and in place. They are not able to go back to their home countries.

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some of them not all of them, but many of them are fleeing violence from their home countries, so are unable to go back, or unable to continue their journeys as well and specifically in the place we have been conducting the research. They have been as stocked in Tijuana

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and

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placing them in very precarious conditions. Lack of access to housing. Many of them live in shelters for undermine time. They don't know when they would be able to start an asylum petition, for example, or a continuous process. They are interested on

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lack of access to health care, which we have been very interested in learning more about the barriers they experience, accessing health care, and in addition to that conceptual contextual violence that there exists in Tijuana and the insecurity that the people faces in daily, in in the city as well. So we talked about material and social precariousness, in addition to the migratory warning.

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making meaning of what it means for them to leave their places of origin, not being able to go back and not being in touch with their social networks there as well.

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So all these conditions together are detrimental for migrants, health, and well-being, and that has been expressed in different did

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hardships. They they deal, some of them travel already with some health conditions from their places of origin. But another of those health conditions emerged during the mobility as well.

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So

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in this limited access to health services that we, having and identifying for us has been fundamental to look at the self-attention processes which are are synthesized, the activities developed by social groups to attend and care for their health conditions. So what they do if they are in a need in a health need, they? They do not have access to the proper health care and which are the resources they have at hand, or they'd find it more useful in order to

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to deal with their health conditions.

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So we take this discussions from Eduardo Menendez, one of the medical anthropologists that have been discounting a lot about these processes is specifically in Latin America.

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and he describes self-attention as the representation and practices that population uses at the level of the subject and social group to diagnose, explain a tent, control, alleviate, and recur, solve.

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or prevent the process that affect our health in real or imaginary terms, without the central, direct, and intentional intervention of professional healers, even though these may be the reference of the self-attention activity.

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And I want just to extend a little bit more in this last idea. Why these traditional killers or practitioners might be the reference because they have been. The the population has been in contact with practitioners in their places of origins. Sometimes during the mobility as well.

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not always the access to health care is easy, but this is part of their knowledge. They are also like having about health and illness. So they also use this knowledge for self medication, for example, or self-attention processes, using natural remedies in some cases, and mixing with aldopathic medicine and and so on.

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So that's why we think that looking at these processes is fundamental throughout the mobiletic trajectory, and in this process they shape their therapyic itinerary as well.

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So we were very interested in looking at this therapy itinerary and look at the interaction between their forms of care, their knowledge about health and illness, and how this interacts with practitioners, perspectives, community perspective, their family perspective, and how they shape this therapy itinerary in that sense.

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So we understand base as well on Menendez, that therapy itineraries as is a dynamic process between various various forms of knowledge and forms of care, thus operating in a specific way and or through an inarticulation with other forms of knowledge. And what Mananda says is that these therapyic itineraries, and and specifically, these dynamic process can happen at 2 levels. One is in the relationship with the practitioners.

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and therefore these different forms of care that they are exposed

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to by practitioners, but also in the integration that people themselves do of 2 or more forms of care by subjects and groups facing some condition and discomfort.

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Something that this Alpha in particular argues is that it is better to understand this idea of medical pluralism, or even understand this idea of the integration of different forms of care through the therapy itineraries, because it's harder to find it from the

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health institutions, perspective, or the practitioner's perspective. But we can find that very easily in the therapeutic itineraries, in the way that people is integrating and combining different forms of care.

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So the objective is to discuss, both in this dynamic process, the tensions and articulations that occur between diverse knowledge and forms of care in the therapy itineraries of migrant populations, from which it is also possible to identify the perceptions. About the first of care. They have access by service providers, since they are exposed as well to these interactions.

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So we conducted an ethnographic study, including participant observation and in-depth interviews in mainly with a migrant population living in shelters.

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most of them in Tijuana, most of them in shelters, and all of them in Tijuana, and in particular in one shelter that is identified as

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cultural center and shelters. So the religious and the spiritual aspect in comparison to other shelters that were church that become shelters. After this one is more oriented to offering different cultural activities which in some cases include as Yoga as well, but not frame it. And a spiritual practice.

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So just to talk about the context, we where we, we, we get in touch with this community and all of them. The criteria that we use is that we wanted people that were in this condition of a strandedness, this condition of uncertainty about their situation as well, and not being able to go back neither farther.

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The places of origin were from different countries from Central America, the Caribbean and Africa, and some of the religious backgrounds of these communities, not all of them identified with these religious orientations, but some of them did as Catholic, Evangelical, Jerusalem, the Church of God, Mormons, and Muslims.

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and this also relates to the kind of practices, religious and and the spiritual practices they turn to when they are dealing with

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hard situation regarding their health.

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So these communities travel with diverse and knowledge regarding health, illness, care, and prevention, but they also receive recommendations from other people on how to treat their ailments during the mobility, and these other people include families that are travelling with them the community of migrants.

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Sometimes they contact the practitioners. They used to consult in their places of origin as well by over the phone, because they trust more on them than the practitioners they find during the mobility, or it can take family members as well in their place of origin to get advice of what to do if they are dealing with a health condition, and this also respond to the lack of access to other resources during the mobility.

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but another research. They they they turn to is religious and a spiritual type, a research that some people in mobility resort to a tender physical, mental, and emotional ailments, leading them to experience, of tranquility, a strengthening of of fate and hope for the future. Some of the practices they turn to include.

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3 years fasting, listening to sermons online upon their religious orientation, reading the Bible, singing, singing religious songs, commending themselves to a saint. For example, we found some that some of them that were devote to the Santa Martha, the Holy debt, and they were like amending themselves to asking for protection or helping them in in recover for a certain health situation they were dealing with

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is less common, that they visit a temple, but some of them also visit a temple in. In the midst of these hardships they are dealing with.

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and some of them make simultaneous use of different forms of care, including consulting and the specialists and the specialists, if the conditions are not improving. So once they turn to this self detention process and the conditions are not improving or are critical for them, they

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find a way, or try to consult a practitioner.

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The therapeutic itineraries of migrant populations are constituted relationally in that sense. So all these different forms of knowledge. All these people, embedded in, how they are shaping their decisions and and their forms of care they are. They are going through

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their knowledge regarding health and illness integrates care experiences in their social, cultural environments and their relationship with with various healthy specialists

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giving rise to a dynamic self-attention process

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and also the decisions and actions they take in the therapyic itinerary integrate the verse knowledge. It is also possible to identify tensions between the of care they privilege or marginalize, not only concerning their possibilities of access, but also about the evaluation of their effectiveness. And then I'm going to talk a little bit about the tensions we can. We have identified just few of them.

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Some migrants prefer biomedicine and mistrust traditional medicine.

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while some others mistrust the biomedical consultation. So we have one case of a Salvadorian man, that

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it started to deal with a hard and pain in the back while in mobility, and was very difficult for him to access health care during the mobility.

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and he had a recommendation to consult a solvador which is like a traditional healer that provides massage. And this is what he thought about about that. I think that a chiropractor is a well-studied person. He has advanced training, but a sovador or a traditional healer. They learn along the way I mean, I know that there must be someone who is very wise, but I don't want to be the one to find out.

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So we identified different experiences related to these. They they have this suggestion, or even someone is offering a T to deal with an issue. But they don't want to try that, because they mistrust the the conditions. 250,

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and we have another experience of a person dealing with cancers

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from its place of origin, and this this woman was carrying the treatment with her that was provided by an endocrinologist. and in the move she was mistrusting every practitioner because none of them, the kind of consultations they can access is primary care. So none of them were a specialist in cancer, neither endocrinologists.

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So she preferred not to have any consultation with anybody, and and continue self-medicating herself with the treatment that was prescribed in the place of origin. So lack of access to proper health care and lack of trust on the resources available is something that we identified in the tensions presented here.

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and I know that I have very short time. But it's just this slide. And then the final reflections.

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So some of the articulations that we identified is that migrants, some of them resource simultaneously to different types of care. And we in in these cases, we we see that through the self-attention process, sometimes they do, they they turn to self medication, allopathic medicine, but at the same time they

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turn to natural remedies. They are taking tea at the same time with allopathic medicines, so they make this integration, and but also sometimes they are exposed to these integrative perspectives through practitioners as well.

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and in some of those cases that I will briefly present religiosity and the spirituality have a meaningful presence as well. They are embracing the whole process of of self-attention. So, just to mention few cases because of the time one of the persons that we also interviewed. had HIV, and was was travelling with anti-ritals since the place of origin.

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and it was a

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she managed to continue in contact with, and a practitioner doing the move in order to have. And this is something that the health care system also privileged. So if a person has HIV, they find a way to continue

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providing the treatment.

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But at the same time this person had a lot of knowledge about natural medicine, and was, in addition to taking the antiretrovirals taking tea for the immune system based on earth that she knew, and in addition to this, she was constantly like turning to prayer, in order to recover or maintain the health condition in in a good manner.

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Another one that I would briefly mention is one person that had an eye accident and had access to biomedical treatment, but didn't have the resources to have a surgery intervention. So he was

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told, that was going to lose the the view of one of the eyes. and this was a more critical situation. He had any research to move on in the surgery.

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but this led him to our religious conversion in search of healing as well. So this integration of different forms of care, and the last one that I would say, is

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one woman that was, find out that was pregnant during the move.

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with lack of access to proper health care, just to know if if she was or not pregnant. Once she found out the the source of care she had access with was a midwife that was providing care next to the shelter.

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and the midwife was also a nurse, so she was very aware of all let's say, biomedical approaches to treat, but was also providing massage to put in place. A baby was using. Acupunter was providing natural remedies. So the midwife in itself was integrating a lot of forms of care

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that these specific. Migrant women was was not exposed before, but was accepting everything. Very well.

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So, and what happened at the end with this case is that at the end she she delivered the baby in the hospital because of the impossibility to get a birth certification if she decided to have the baby with the Mythw. So here we look at how these structural barriers are also like shaping in in a way, some of these a therapy itineraries.

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So this is, I'm almost concluding the articulations and tensions can be analyzed from our relational perspective, not limited to people's representations of health and illness, but their relationship with their first knowledge and forms of care through contact with healthcare providers, their community or other social groups, but also the possibilities and limitations accessing care, and some of the final reflections. The structural violence migrants, experiences express.

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among other things, in the lack of access to care and the resources they need to overcome their health problems and concerns.

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They embody the inequality which is reflected in the suffering and illness conditions, and how they deal with them during the process.

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We can also identify in some of the cases an agency capacity as well, shaping their therapy itineraries as well, taking decisions, choosing, finding the way to have access to certain resources, migrants. Notions of health and well-being are relationally constituent in shape, the tensions and articulations in the therapyic itineraries.

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and in some of the cases I didn't extend on that. But some of the cases I presented, the religious and the spiritual orientations embraced and complemented as well the process of self-attention provided in strength, hope, and the relief and the face of conditions of recurrence. Migrants experience.

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Well, thank you. And I look forward to questions or comments.

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Thank you, Olga. We are now moving to an online presentation.

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 okay, this is a presentation on traditional Ethos and Avivasi tribal, indigenous religion, practices and learnings. please, if could you please to share your screen. Should I leave this? It's gonna like a stop share. First.

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this, all.

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okay.

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not stop share.

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Because we want

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actually, yeah, that's right.

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So you just go to that.

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If you want to speak to the

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okay, you can start. Now.

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You have 15 min for your presentation.

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Can you please unmute yourself so that we can make sure we we can hear you.

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Swati Soren: Oh, yes.

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perfect.

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Okay, okay, great.

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Swati Soren: We

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Swati Soren: all right. good morning.

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Swati Soren: So this paper has been prepared by 6 authors, and on behalf of all the author, as I be presenting this paper

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Swati Soren: the title of the paper this traditional Ethos and Avivasi tribal, indigenous religious practices and learnings, a case study of Santos in China and Eastern India.

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Swati Soren: So for the purpose of this paper. I'll be using the word and

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Swati Soren: When we look in India there are several tribal groups across India. You'll find around

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Swati Soren: over 500

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Swati Soren: tribes which are recognized by the Indian Constitution. Each of these tribal groups are very different from each other, due to its geographical location. The language that that they speak and the culture, the tradition that they follow.

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Swati Soren: the paper actually focuses on the tribal groups that are,

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Swati Soren: geographically, geographically located in the Central and Eastern India parts of the in India and the States of Jhartan behind us.

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Swati Soren: so the term Avivasi will be used for the purpose of this paper

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Swati Soren: to give an introduction to this paper.  I would like to speak about how this tribal groups in India have been

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Swati Soren: scheduled, or how they have been

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Swati Soren: defined in during the Colonial and after the colonial period. So during the colonial period, the tribal groups were identified they were identified on the basis of the livelihood and the belief system or the religion. So between the census that happened in the colonial India between 1871 and 1941, the

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Swati Soren: groups that were identified as stripes. They were mainly an animus, and they were  They were identified under various headings, namely, the including tribal religions, analysts, aboriginal or aboriginals.

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Swati Soren: So after independence, what happened is the Government

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Swati Soren: no longer used religion as form of the criteria to identify these communities. And they moved on to other criteria, for example, geographical location, economical and educational backwardness

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Swati Soren: to identify groups as tribal

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Swati Soren: our community.

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Swati Soren: when we talk about the tribal communities in central and Eastern India the tribal groups in these areas follow tribal religion. What which is called Selena. So the Sedan is the tribal religion which is practiced by the Adivasi in these areas. And they worship surname. Who is the

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Swati Soren: Who's who's the Earth goddess, and she is revered as the protector

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Swati Soren: of the community. And this reverence sign up for sedama is deeply rooted in the relationship of these communities with the nature

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Swati Soren:  So for the

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Swati Soren: So when we use the term standard it essentially refers to the sacred groups in which

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Swati Soren: they believe that the spirit of the forest or the spirit of the ancestors to decide. And these spaces have a very special and very specific spiritual and cultural relevance in the community these.

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Swati Soren: so now these sacred groves, these are actually those areas of the forest that were never cleared during during the time when they were clearing the forest for agricultural purpose. So these are held in very high regard, and it's it is considered very sacred. trees are not cut cut, it is prohibited.

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Swati Soren: and the everything in this space, whichever plants trees are available in these spaces, the birds and anything in these spaces are reviewed and held sacred.

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Swati Soren: these are, have a significance which is beyond a beyond the religious capacity. It is a a space where people meet have a celebrations, and they celebrate festivals as well. it is also used to conduct meetings and so forth, so on, so forth. And

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Swati Soren: when we look at these spaces, these spaces were actually forbidden for the women to enter.

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Swati Soren: so women traditionally could not enter into these

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Swati Soren: spaces, and they were They were seen as someone who could pollute the sacredness of these areas.

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Swati Soren: the rituals were actually whatever religious which was that happened. These were.

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Swati Soren: done by the meal. a preacher, or the male religious head, which is called pahan.

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Swati Soren: So

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Swati Soren: What happened in the 19 seventies was that soda movement was started. This movement was

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Swati Soren: something that which was started to revive the surname or the sardna religion that was slowly and slowly fading away

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Swati Soren: because of their interaction with the so called mainstream society.

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Swati Soren: So the sign up moment that started in 19 seventies

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Swati Soren: is attributed to the greater participation of the women that started there post this movement. So now that in this study, we'll

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Swati Soren: look into 2 case studies that will outline how the women are

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Swati Soren: participating in these areas in in this.

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Swati Soren: So the objective of this paper when we started writing this paper, and when we started visiting the field the objectives that we wanted to study over, we first wanted to know about the traditional ethos and religious practices of Sina, a religion that is happening in present, the in based on the present social and political context, and second, to understand the role of women in Santa Claus.

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Swati Soren: these women we'll see in the later slides that how these women are the main forces that keep these spaces lively and active. third is to understand the changing meaning of Santa Ana in the region

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Swati Soren: So we this was a qualitative research, and we visited the Sardinas tells of the secret group that places of worship that were around the city of Ranchi in and we did

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Swati Soren: in depth interviews with the diviners, the the women diviners who were leading these prior meetings, and secondly, also, the the people who are participating in these their meetings.

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Swati Soren: So for the purpose of this presentation, I'll be talking about 2 case studies specifically. First, is a case study of Brambe

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Swati Soren:  and second will be of rat to sign as well. So in this. there is a women divider. So this woman divider.

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Swati Soren: She

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Swati Soren: had received a vision of the goddess Earth, and she came into a vision, and she said that

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Swati Soren: they should start

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Swati Soren: doing weekly meetings, and therefore she fasted for 31 days, and through these fasting and prayer she received the part of surname, and she received supernatural power.

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Swati Soren: So since

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Swati Soren: since her

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Swati Soren: definition, see, she has been leading the prayer meetings in Bram Bay. So this the meetings that happen it happens every Thursday in all the signals around, around, across State and Thursday, is very specific, specifically observed as a holy day by the followers, by the Adivasi followers of Santa religion. So

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Swati Soren: sukuro is the women divine in this area, and she is around 45 years of age. And she is revered by the people in the area. And

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Swati Soren: she has a very. a very charming and very charismatic persona. And

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Swati Soren: what she does is

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Swati Soren: she also is someone who heals the people. The people around the area believe that she has supernatural powers, and she can heal people

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Swati Soren: around every in every meeting around 150 and 200 people gathered in these areas. And she leads so leads the prayer and cures the people, and she also cures the people of social issues as well. If there is any health issues or any kind of problems in the family, or there is dispute

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Swati Soren: in the area she is the one people go to for the resolution of these problems. so

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Swati Soren: also, very interestingly. when we interviewed her, and even the people who were there. They told us that there were no Covid cases during the pandemic in the area. People believe that she used to pray, and through her supernatural power, and

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Swati Soren: a a power of healing that she has received no one in the area fall Fell sick during Covid, and even their relatives, who would be far away from the area. They would, the relatives of those people would come and seek prayers and blessings from the Suklore, and she would give some of some some form of herbitious

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Swati Soren: facade, and by consuming this prasad the the virus or the covid would

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Swati Soren: would be healed from the body of the patients. So

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Swati Soren: it's such forms of healing has happened.

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sweaty, you have. Yeah, we not? To conclude I really need them, but no more than 5. Please. Sorry.

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Swati Soren: Oh, that is it. So when we, when we saw the prayer meetings that were happening in these areas.

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Swati Soren: They were mostly women and participants who participated in these. in these meetings.

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Swati Soren: the second case, study is also very similar. women divorce had received a vision, and they

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Swati Soren: started leading the prayer there and performing healing practices in these areas. I'll just play a small weeds

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Swati Soren: is the video.

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Swati Soren: Alright, the video is not playing. But the video actually, essentially showed them worshipping in these areas. So through I'll I'll very briefly discuss about the contemporary meaning of Sarna that we

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Swati Soren: we're able to perceive. We're we, we, we make it We were able to make meaning from these visits that we had to to this. So for first and foremost, the with women, participation has increased

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Swati Soren: tremendously. The women are leading. They are worshippers. They are healers. They are the ones who are leading the community in these meetings, and they are revered and worshipped as a

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Swati Soren: someone who was very powerful supernatural, have supernatural powers, and people reveal them because of their healing capabilities. And

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Swati Soren: next. it has these

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Swati Soren: areas. These arena styles have also become sites of identity. assertion of a identity. And people are, it has become sites, become a site where people interact with each other, and

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Swati Soren: important ideas are being transmitted in these meetings. Especially, I would, S. A very specifically talk about religious code that is being demanded by the Avivasis in Central India, the Sarnog Board. They want a Se. In the census of India. They want a separate category for the abuses, and they want to be known as send up people. So for for this

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Swati Soren: particular demand, these sacred groups, these areas are becoming very important for transmission of these ideas, and people are meeting there and participating in these meetings so that they can

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Swati Soren: firmly put on their demands in front of the State also.

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Swati Soren: when we look at this and the participation of women. it is It is posing a very strong challenge to the patriarchy and the masculine view of religion in which the men were the ones who would be participating and leading the prayer meetings. But now women are the ones who are

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Swati Soren: participating, and the the mere presence on the mere reverence towards sna ma. It is challenging the patriarchal and mas masculine view of religion.

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Swati Soren: thank you.

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Thank you very much sweaty.

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I apologize if I not pronouncing correctly your name.

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Okay? Can you please stop sharing now your screen so that we can start with our following presentation, Leticia Stelfer, from the University of Los Angeles.

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Harmony Vibration, Karma.

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can we go to?

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That? Was kind of thank you.

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Okay.

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there we go.

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Let's use it.

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Shift from one another. Yeah.

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please

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excuse me.

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How can I shift from one to another?

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What can I shift from

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one side to another. I think you have to look all this way.

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Okay, only one day.

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Thank you. Okay.

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Hi, good morning. Everyone. I'm let's see, I'm a Phd. Student at the

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at the University of Rosen. In Sociology. My today presentation is entitled Harmony Vibration, Karma Glaciers on Traumas. And it's all about Yoga and spiritual meaning. Making regarding health condition

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in my communication, I will try to answer the following question, To at extend our Yoga practices on discourses, resources with spiritual and non-spiritual resources contributing to our meaning, making process regarding practitioners, earth's condition and therapeutic trajectories, and answering this main question will allow to take into account to all the underlying questions.

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The first one is, how do Yoga practitioners and teachers reconcile diverse health care in their quest for health, and the second one? Or do they use and situate Yoga as complementary, or in a critical way with modern science?

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my findings! stem! From a Phd. Study that I am currently carrying out about worldviews and practices of your Ga. Practitioners and teachers, mainly in Switzerland, but also abroad, as it was a led in a multi-sided approach.

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and one aim of my Ph. D. Even if it's not the only one it's to investigate from anemic perspective or participants define the notion of spirituality and mobilize it in the everyday lives and the amortal combinations with practices and meanings attributed to her.

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My study is based on qualitative methods. I led a regular participant observation for 3 years in Yoga classes and intensive workshops during periods of 4 months

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and 2 years. In addition, I also adopted a multi-sessed approach by following participants in the networks. Here I have to to mention that the data was collected mainly before the COVID-19 pandemic. And my data is composed of fill notes from courses and workshops in Western Switzerland and in Sofia and Bulgaria, with some retreat in Laminos, in Greece, and other festivals and Evans.

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In addition, I conducted 52 formal interviews with practitioners and teachers and data collection also included audio and visual recordings of lectures and collective Yoga classes over one year.

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but we could ask what I am speaking about while using this kind of fuzzy notion named Yoga. In my research regarding my feed work, I do refer to Yoga as practice in Europe.

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and I will unfortunately, I will have to skip the discussion about the history of Yoga and its implementation in Europe and in Switzerland, and the transformation of Yoga practices in a historical perspective, and also the underlying debate and important debate regarding cultural appropriation. But this notion of F. Yoga covers a diversity of history, practices, and beliefs.

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Elizabeth Domicholas, an historian of

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of Yoga. They find modern Yoga, as and I quote those disciplines and schools that are, to a greater or lesser extent rooted in self cultural contexts, and more specifically draw inspiration from certain philosophies, teachings, and practices of Hinduism.

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These stations and practice by virtue of export, syncretic assimilation and subsequent accuration processes have now become an integral part of urban cultures worldwide

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more interestingly regarding the purpose of my study. Suzanne Newcombe, who studied Yoga in the Uk. I define Yoga as I am giving this simple definition, telling its ambivalent practices and ideas about the meaning of those practices. And another study about target teachers led in the Us by Bender and Cage indicated that meanings attributed to Yoga practices are multiple and contextual.

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and this authors highlighted the unsettled meaning of Yoga, transforming from colleges to secular devotional practices while entering the mainstream quest for health.

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And it's mainly this hands on, meaning that interrupts me in my study.

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If I do shift to my findings. I will briefly present 2 sets of results. First we will have a brief look at teaching studios and teachers, discusses and positions toward conventional medicine, and then we will have a look at practitioners, positions and point of view.

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If we briefly have a look at teaching studios and discusses. 2 trends emerge from my data. The first one is focus on promoting Yoga as a spiritual and professional therapeutic practice complementary to conventional medicine.

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Vis yoga. Teachers don't reject orthodox scientific knowledge. And just to give an example, for instance, they can justify the benefits of a regular Yoga practice, mobilizing scientific-based research.

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But the claim both are professional studies for Yoga teachers and an affirmation of teachings or interventions, taking into account physical, psychological, emotional, and spiritual dimensions of human being. And this trend is in accordance with a move toward scientific

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and professionalization of Yoga teachings. Some critiques still emerge from the teacher's position in this trend, and notably towards medical institution.

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Towards medical institutions and professionals that is a reductive symptom, based curative and specialised set of knowledge, who objectify passions, and these criticisms allow, of course, them to position themselves as necessary partners between a college or collaboration with arts, care, professionals, or not.

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but our second trend, more marginal in and in number, is in a stronger critical stance towards conventional medicine, not only addressing the same criticism as the one mentioned before, but comforting on questioning directly medical knowledge as a misleading understanding of physical issues and illnesses.

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Let's have a look now at you got practitioners, practices, and meanings, and all the reconciliation with scientific knowledge towards some health issues.

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here I can maybe mention that not only Yoga can be dedicated to maintain or improve well-being, but for some Yogis and New Guinea to support recoveries from illness and traumas and the Yoga practitioner's quest for health implies involvement in a wide range of multi-layer practices included, including self-discipline, regular physical postures, brazing techniques, meditation and avant-tyulations.

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diets, and all fasting, and often value for the per of utility centered on physical and mental health.

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This dimension combines with complex and diverse symbolizations, and I will begin here. I do propagate to take Tom as an example, just to illustrate all practitioners. Parabolic trajectories can combine the use of a wide range of resources.

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Tommy's 35 is an engineer, and he explained to me that he had started Yoga 8 years ago to work on his flexibility, but in 2,018, having a problem with a foot on a leg is interesting to nutrition.

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He spent several months trying to understand his disability by finding a physical explanation for it, and experimenting with different techniques to solve it, that is, Yoga postures and exercises changes in his, yet coupled with readings of medical articles, fasting, self massage, and visits to a medical specialist for magnetic resonance imaging, and for him fasting is a way

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to decipher his body as a complex physiological and psychological mechanisms for his subjective experience. And as you can read here in this extract for him, you guys, is a bodyman integration and a way to learn or to do new things self-consciously, and then he had it in the end.

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And there is.

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There was this side of managing life with lightness. At the time I was depressed, my! My foot hurt. I didn't know what to do, and everything is better. Now, you guys really don't hear the body, and importantly, it does work.

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as we can notice with Tom's example, else is

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felt as the result of a cleanses process based on self-discipline, which is a widely shared understanding among my

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participants. And this cleansing process can refer to various issues, not only strictly physical, but also referring to addictions, anxiety, depression, and issues with family members, partners, or other social relationships, etc. And this point is in accordance with the trend of psychologisation of exotic recesses, as veronic Al glass, as already pointed out in a walks.

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But this narratives, combined with a strong emphasis on earth, based on individual responsibility, and defined in a positive and active way that is not only defined by the absence of disease, and

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telling that you can work on it, and, as one participant told me, which is maybe a kind of Mont try. My field work is

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health is that you built? You don't undergo it.

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Despite this commonality among partitioners, we can allied diverse understandings of what health his and mean to them.

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And I could identify with, say, maybe, 2 main clusters of definitions. The first one is health as a free flow of

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vibration or vital and energy of balance and harmony.

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In these cases health definitions combine with the idea of a body and balance.

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or subtle or more explicit spiritual narratives. As you can read here on the slide with the extract of the Juliet

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another definition is, has has an ability to be happy to have a meaningful life, and this despite possible difficulties, physical or hormonal issues. And here is an extract of Lin. She is 70.

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She was diagnosed with a multiple sclerosis around 20 years ago.

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She does practice Yoga as a support to keep it under control and alleviate pain to complement medical treatment and care.

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and she defines her as an ability to be happy while dealing with her illness.

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 As as we have just seen, the meanings I attributed to her, and hearing processes can combine with spiritual narratives, but not necessarily. If we come back to Tom.

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Born and raised no religious Tom expresses suspicion and criticism of what he named the of a esotericism in the Yoga world, telling that it's kind of complicated staff and word beliefs. So for for him. It is committed in a secular Yoga practice based on body, mind, subjective experience. By contrast.

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making sense of health issues or understanding. One's illness can combine with spirit and narratives, and can refer to existential considerations for Som Yogis and New Guinea. These interpretations are inspired or shaped by Yoga teachings on a widely shared understanding which is based on Yoga.

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your gas metaphysics, which diagnoses the human condition as a state of suffering due to ignorance and the idea of Yoga, as a practice dedicated to here prevalent and grow physically, psychologically, emotionally, and spiritually. Here you can read an extract of Juliet. Juliet, as a viciligo which is a skin depictmentation.

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and she told me that you had been a revelation to her the taller that allowed her to understand a illness, the meaning she gives to her illness is that in a mantel schemes she wonders if she does exist

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here. A ferocious trajectory is embedded in an existential question, and she said, or she asked, and the question is, Do I exist?

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Am I not becoming invisible? Do I take a position in my life? Do I exist by myself. I think it's really my story to find the way

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to my own recognition, not from the outside. unfortunately, I don't have time to elaborate more in details about it right now. But regarding my data, I can say that with explanatory models of illnesses.

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or as issues based on spiritual knowledge are partially shaped by the belonging to a Yoga community through through shared experiences and societalisation, are far from being homogeneous, homogeneous, shared understanding among practitioners, and seem to be strongly dependent on partitioners, religious or spiritual dispositions and backgrounds, and their biographies.

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And just maybe.

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to conclude, I will not necessarily come back to on every phones. But just to mention that regarding more specifically as the topic

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of this decision, that Yoga practices knowledge and meanings appear to be a resource, among others, to make sense of health and hindnesses, and cope with it for Yoga practitioners, but articulated with spiritual or non-spiritual considerations. They are not in conflict with principles of modern medical sciences from the view of

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regal practitioners, who are also users of conventional medicine avenues on discourses, are critical of expert on medical knowledge.

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and I would stop here. Thank you.

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Thank you very much, Leticia. Now we are

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going to our last presentation of this session, and I happy to say that Rafael Kasarine is here in person and not an online presenter, as it was announced in the in the program, so should I just go there.

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That is.

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it's not an easy task, being the last. And at this point, so it's an act of faith that we all here still

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thank you also for the convenience of the panel. Ma Olga and Olga and Lorena.

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so

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I will present here at the first outcomes of a project that's within a larger research cluster

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within a network that Maggie and I coordinate, which is the international network of science, religion, and Health.

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In this cluster my spoke a bit more about it yesterday, some of the projects that we're working on. And we're looking at the different role roles of religion and spiritual beliefs in relation to biomedical technologies that are at the center of public debates throughout the country. Throughout Spain

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we take a mixed method approach using in-depth interviews and live stories, digital ethnography and big data analysis.

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But

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in this context, my role particularly is to explore the perspectives of transgender people and gender non-conforming people who may consider have gone through gender affirmative procedures, as well as those individuals who are not identified with mayor or female or gender roles.

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In this paper I explored how they navigate issues concerning health

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and science along with their religious and spiritual lives.

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in this context, one of my informants, my collaborators, mentioned that going through this gender affirmative procedures or thinking about it. brings up some some notion of like a roller coaster, because also taking hormones for changing their bodies, also gives you makes you express your emotions in different ways. So she expresses this in in the form of a roller coaster.

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My findings shed light on experiences and practices, in the interplay of religious and spiritual beliefs in health.

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the ambivalent narratives in which religion and spirituality are presented as an obstacle or a personal, safe space for empowerment and gender identity and expression. and the ways to reach intersectional dimensions such as class age, culture, migratory context, and education shaped such negotiations

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in her book, Queer Religiosities, Melissa Wilcox talks about the existing proto-fields in Academia, where religious and queer identities are studied together.

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She highlights that the development of these fields in Academia has been highly affected by the controversial public debates among social movements, political actors, and institutions related to gender and religion. The scenario is encapsulated by 2 sides. On the one side we have queer in Lgbti. Students studies historically regarding religion as an enemy dedicating limited space and time to the fuel, and focusing on single issues often related to violence in Lgbtq. Euphobia.

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Parallel to that. We also have religious studies showing a similar path, offering very few empirical studies on queer experiences and consciousness.

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In both fields. Studies on transgender and gender and conforming people are still marginal and insufficient in comparison to the other groups of the spectrum of sex and gender and sexual diversity.

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A different path is observed in research exploring the relationship between health and well-being and religions and spirituality on the one side, and health and well being in issues of gender and sexual diversity.

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Here health and well-being seemingly constitutes 2 separate fields which each subject. But these relationships are no less problematic

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in the case of transgender and gender. Non-conforming people. Medical and psychological sciences have often focused on the pathological dimensions.

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empirical studies on trans people in the fields of public health, epidemiology and sexual health overlooked risk factors of this population in isolation from other aspects, such as culture, religion, and spirituality, or ethnicity.

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Over the past 2 years the debates involving Lgbtq. Rights in Spain have been eclipsed by a particular social and political controversy. the approval of a new legislation and gender on transgender's rights.

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The legislation includes, among other aspects, access to new medical advancements on gender affirmative processes.

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In March 2,007, the Spanish Government approved the first law, allowing in individuals above years old, diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and under 2 years of hormone treatment to change their names in national identity documents and passports.

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This was just the beginning of a series of political and legal battles to mainstream norms and regulations on trans issues that culminate in the approval of the trans law. In February 2,023,

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the law recognizes free gender. Self-determination prohibits conversion therapies, legislates, rights of intersex people. Among other issues.

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in 2,014, Catalonia was the first region in Spain to approve legislation that protects Lgbtq. Rights and Addresses, homophobia and Transphobia.

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Since 2,012. Catalonia also counts with a comprehensive health program aimed to assist transgender people with social psychological and medical support called transit.

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Such favorable context context of trends for trends and and and gender. Non-conforming people makes Catalonia an attractive destination for these people, especially migrants whose countries of origin do not provide legal protection and public health care related to their needs.

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But the recognition of transgender rights throughout the country has also generated several backlashes from social and political movements.

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This includes the Catholic church, right-wing and far-right parties and sector of detectors of the feminist movements.

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Perhaps the most controversial event in this direction has been a campaign promoted by the conservative Catholic group asteroid which translates to make yourself heard. I think that Ma spoke a bit about them yesterday, and also showed this

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picture. This openly anti-trans campaign calls the attention of Media by performing parades with buses and banners, with messages that challenge the concept of gender, especially addressing transgender people, and the existence of gender based violence.

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These buses and banners have appeared in important cities around the country.

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In Catalonia the circulation of these buses was prohibited.

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The message on the bus translates to boys have penises. Girls have vulvers. Do not be fooled if you're born a man, you are a man. If you're a woman, you remain so.

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So. This couple of aspects was. We're just some aspect, some some general, I it to give you a general overview of the social context in in which these people that I I've been interviewing live on. I am still it. This is still an ongoing project. So I so far interviewed 6 people, 6 collaborators.

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And the idea here is to have a very in-depth approach with life stories. and continue with this over the next year or so

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so in this political landscape these 6 collaborators shared with media live stories.

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None of these people are related, or part of the same social circle. They were contacts from colleagues from university Ngos, and associations working in the field of gender.

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Some of the names here were suggested by collaborators themselves, while others agreed to have their real names mentioned. In some cases these names also expressed the social transformations

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lived in their lives, for instance, leaving a gendered name of baptism, as most of them were, were raised in Christian families. And here it is, and it's an interesting aspect, because some of the names chosen by these people are names that allude to names of flowers or nature, or even role models in the transgender and genital conforming world. In Catalonia

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the migratory profile of most of my collaborators were also accidental, but played a key role. On the way they narrated practices and experiences related to alleging spirituality and as well as health and well-being, and I think that your the paper speaks very well to Olga's paper on the role of Migration. The past and Present.

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Their engagement with religion belongs to childhood memories, past experiences with family, especially parents or grandparents, and in some cases the school years they recalled going to the church, mosque, baptism, Bible school, and other key religious events. In this context, religion was not question or faced with enthusiasm

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and abiding to it was a result of social and cultural expectations of their families.

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a crucial crucial period in their lives. is teenagerhood. It's in this period that conflict where the religion appears along with stronger feelings concerning gender identity and sexuality.

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It is also in the late stage of teenagerhood that some of them first started to search for information on transgender issues, mostly online and looking for support in Ngos and local associations dealing with transgender health.

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This was when Salvatika, Fergy, Damian, and Pheno, for instance, took hormones for the first time without any medical assistance.

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The body. Changes obtained with the use of hormones only contributed to the or to go further in general farming interventions. So they realize that after getting information in buying these hormones online. The changes that they perceived in but in their bodies assimilated them to to go further and to look for more information.

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However, the lack of medical assistance and knowledge led to a series of side effects in their mental health and physical health.

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I was told that this happens since pre-existing health conditions may lead to severe side effects. For instance, individuals with problems in their lives in the livers sorry, are in high risk and cannot engage in hormone therapy.

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Fergy is one of these individuals, and this prevented oh, sorry!

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And

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ferg is one of these individuals, and this prevented they, which is the a pronoun to consider initiating any gender-affirming medical interventions. In these contexts the aesthetics of the body is essential, and beyond surgical or or mono interventions changes in the shapes and colors of their hairs. Clothing, make up are also important signs of expression.

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While distancing themselves from the religion and the family environment in teenagerhood. They also started to nurture their interest into belief systems and world views such as astrology, witchcraft, Satanism, and card reading, Taro

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Fennel, Lila, So Vatica and Charlie mentioned to have gone further into studying these different worldviews by reading books, contacting members of organized groups, keeping amulets and objects charged with energy, integrating certain practice in their lives, and learning how to channel or connect with energy.

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Lila, who is a trained veterinarian, decided to incorporate, for instance, holistic treatment in her portfolio, and use natural oils and essences to addressing science and stress in animals.

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This happened after a major spiritual breakthrough while living London.

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where they, their pronoun got to the got to know the Radical fairies. A queer movement started in the seventies, whose holistic practices and rituals aimed to connect Lgbtqs and visibility through spiritual renewal in New Age worldview.

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In this way the migratory context of collaborators also played an important role of clear distinction between practices and experiences before or after migration, revealing ways through which they belonged, or distanced themselves from a particular culture.

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In the case of Savatika, who was born in Morocco, in what she described as not a very Muslim family. She summarized the family conflicts she has faced on her transitioning until now as a cultural issue, since she is too Spanish for them, and doesn't identify with the Moroccan culture, nor Islam

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so Vatica separated religion and culture. when describing to me the several attempts to be fixed through witchcraft, either conducted by sorceries in Spain or in occasional visits to Morocco.

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Thank you. With regards to the role of science and transgender issues, she finds that scientific evidence or proof of their realities are not so important because most people don't understand how science works.

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and they will just ignore it or pick what works for them.

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Another aspect that influenced their health and well-being is their financial status. While all of them have used the public health care system at some point or throughout the whole gender affirming processes. Some had access to private health care facilities that are key to prevent the risk of developing serious physiological and mental health problems.

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Pheno, for instance, framed her and herination status as a privilege that allows her to have a private medical attention when dealing with hormonal imbalances and psychological distresses.

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She inherited a house from her grandmother, and this allowed her to consult on demand with an endocrinologist and a psychologist who have been helping her to deal with the roller coaster of her hormonal imbalances.

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In Catalonia the most visible organization dealing with issues on sexual diversity is the Lgbtqian center of Los Angeles

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last year, the centre organized workshops and seminars on queer spiritualities in a series of social events and seminars that aim to understand spirituality as something that goes beyond monotheistic religions and revisit its potential across history as well as in the present of marginalized groups and Aggbtq communities.

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I won't have much time to go through this. But these are some of the questions that they raise in the website. of the queer religious Rudy Josity seminars that the the the Lgbtq Santor went through. So it's basically the idea to question the idea of religion, the idea of present religion, and that there is a whole history behind religion, that eclipse eclipses the role of Edgebiterq people and the relationship of Lgbtq people and transgender people with spirituality.

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 by following the social media of different people who attended these activities. I came across also this Hbt. IQ. Spiritual group.

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Lila, whom I interviewed, were also interviewed and mentioned, for instance, that one of their focus is to create a guideline for those aggregateq people for age. Particular people who want to engage with spiritual and holistic practices. So this guide was basically based on experiences of of of queer people who engaged in these practices and felt that they were too binary, binary, or too strict in terms of gender norms.

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These are some of the experiences that they post online on their Instagram.

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So some conclusive remarks beyond the good and bad often framed within queer and religious and religious studies. These preliminary findings show how religion and spiritualities, intertwined across the life of transgender, transgender, and gender. Non-conforming people.

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Collaborators found a way to queer religion in spirituality by challenging anti- eligibility, narratives based on strict religious dogmas and morality. The reinterpretation of religious beliefs and practices. From childhood the teenagehood and adult life, along with the transformation in gender self-identification and gender affirmative interventions led to make to the making of query spiritualities.

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The distancing from institutionalized religion and engagement with spirituality is translated as the process of reaching emotional and intellectual independence and maturity. Here past experiences are not entirely ditched or forgotten, but inform the present ways to believe or live spirituality, which appears as a sign of maturity.

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Their strategies ranged from sorting out through their religious beliefs, and selecting only those who supported the agenda identity

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to identifying with with belief systems that are significantly different from the ones in which they are raised, and also another key issue in this process is safeguarding the integrity of their bodies

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for transgender in general conforming people, the body is an imminent battlefield, in which visibility is not only a matter of personal well-being or choices, but it's directly related to access or lack of access to basic human rights. In this context, their migratory processes allow them to question gender roles and norms of the past culture, expectations, and religious narratives associate to them

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in a migratory context. Also, they were allowed to redirect feelings, emotions, and giving space for self-development. Especially it granted some of them the possibility to take part in gender-affirming treatment. My research questions remain open, especially for cases in which religious and spiritual practices are done collectively. Thank you.

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Okay. Now, in this case

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this session has a discussant. Lauren and Nunus prepared very unsizeful comments. Yes, please come. Let this yeah, all in person presenters. If you can come here.

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and especially I would like to invite Mar to to give a summary of what the Lorina noon is prepared as comments.

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So first of all, we will listen to Lorenzo's comments since she was a discussant, and then we will still have, I hope, time for other questions.

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Your work. Presentation. black?

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hello, everyone! Lorenzo was part of this session, and she sent us a very nice video, but it it was not able. Well, it's difficult to to play, and we will send to the participants the video. So you will have the the material because it's very interesting. And she send it all the comments together with Olga. We decided just to give kind of a general

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introduction to the comments and give you some some ideas.

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One of the of the things that I think that that cross all the all the papers, and it is important. There is the role of I. And C. An. Astrotur in a way. How how the the agency of the actors, negotiate, articulate, and engage with the structure that they find out. In in the case of of the Yoga. You see the the context where you are doing these research. But also, how do they negotiate? And the limit? And and and and Lorena was

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was saying that it would be interesting to know a little bit more in the case of Yo, for instance, how these participants negotiate with this kind of issues, which kind of consequences

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to this. these negotiations with the the health systems so beyond the yard class, when they are beyond, when they have to face the health systems because they are sick or they have a prone. How do they really negotiate in terms of practices? And and

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In the case of Francis

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also, it would be really nice to know a little bit more about the people that goes to pray accounts. So who are them, and why they are going there? What's the capacity of a shenced? So are they able to to to So what? What brings them? Then? We know that there are these practices that are considered as danger for mental health. But what brings them there? What kind of? And this is also

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for how they feel the responsibility of their own health. And why do they think that prayer cans? Maybe the adequate place to go

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in the case of Raphael is also similar, as how, how, how people that are facing transitions in a way, feel that they need to look for this kind of meaning, how they are able to generate this new narrative through spirituality. We are also to what extent

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there's this

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creativity in in bringing together a different narrative. But what are also the limits of these narratives? So And and in the case of Olga is also very interesting to see how individuals navigate these crisis, not these moments. And how do they negotiate with different health systems. And

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and here it comes a question related to what extent

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the biographic crisis that these individuals face. And you all talk about biographical crisis or context crisis. Sometimes it's like, how how this have a directing! But how we should read! How in in sociology, of religion, the idea of Of a crisis. It has a long history, and also how crisis generate. Conversion, how crisis.

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how you deal with this is this a clear inflection point, it's more open. So this would be another issue, too. And another very interesting element that Lorena was pointing out is the and this is less eviden in the case of Raphael, but in some was very clear the role of food. So we talk a lot about health. But in the case of

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I feel Leticia. This was really clear. I know how they relate health with nutrition, with so and and here we go back to Mary Euglas and conceptions of purity, and and and so to what extent, and in your case is also very important. They don't have capacity to in a way to to choose what kind of a health care system they they would like to have. So

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food becomes really a a clear issue in the case also of Suati. And thank you very much what is sorry. You are the That the case of food also plays. A role there, and also the kind of a crisis, and I was saying, no. The the biographic crisis is really clear in in the The papers in your case and paper is very clear that the the context to our crisis also. So how? How this has a run on that, but getting back to food, know how, how this this health

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conceptions and notions, translates in particular relations with food, and why food is gaining a

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critical new relevant when we think about spirituality. Health in nowadays. Not so the the ecological food and way of regulating food, the food in in, in, in, in, in Kansas. So If you can say a little bit more about rhythm. Yes, just brief aspects that she also emphasized in the case of Letitia, like

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a suggestion of bringing more to the forefront embodiment experience, and thinking that that would allow you to

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explain and analyze deeper, how the body challenges, how the meaning is is shaped as well.

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and also to contextualize the experience like, situate the experience in in the ground, and that will help us to understand

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this orientation in today, individual rather than the collective meaning or perspective in Yoga

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for Rafael. I think you did it great on these comments, and one last aspect is

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thinking about the status of knowledge, like the imbalance that medical knowledge is spiritual knowledge, and how this interacts as well.

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And in the case of and Swati, they.

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she suggests to try to to connect your analysis to a global perspective. Because she found like these animist practices related to the environment. It's something that it's going on in different contexts and and and like to focus on the global and how women are taking a later role in

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in doing it. And so trying to reflect your analysis and your work at a global level or

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comparing with other other contexts. And I think that was it.

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Thank you very much. And we are going to open a very quick round of questions, so then we'll give the word to them.

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It is

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Saturday morning we are in this quiet.

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Well, thank you very much for this very interesting panel. I have

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2 questions, one for Letitia, and one for

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Olga

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for a teacher.

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So you brought up the definition of Yoga by somebody.

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and I wondered if you really use that definition, because that definition said that Yoga is defined as

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 embodied practices and the meanings linked to those practices. Well, that definition fits about anything that humans do.

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So it doesn't give any limitation to anything. So I just wonder why why such a

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I think useless definition. And then to Olga.

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I thought that was all very interesting, but in a way

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one could also, when you get to your final results.

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I thought so. What? So these you show that these people combine health offers.

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and

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they use it in a relational way.

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But in a way that could be said of many people in many contexts. I wondered what is the specific thing that your study shows about this population that we did not know?

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 because in a way, you could also say of myself, for example, that I I combine different health offers, and and but I'm in a very different position. So so that was, that was my 2 questions. Thank you. May I ask if there is another session in this room after this one? Could we perhaps take 5, 10 min extra or

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okay, then we will have to.

441
01:29:09.730 --> 01:29:14.549
 Awesome. Thank you, Susan.

442
01:29:14.590 --> 01:29:23.720
Thank you. Well, anyway, we have. We don't have much time. So if there is another like short question you would like to ask.

443
01:29:23.730 --> 01:29:34.289
I'll keep it short, and in fact, you could even maybe not even answer it if you don't want to. But I guess I'm curious, especially in the case of Swati. If you could situate your analysis within a broader political

444
01:29:34.320 --> 01:29:47.580
context. In other words, obviously, you're working. The autobosses are living within a society, and there are something like 100 million of them, I think, living in a society where there are particular kind of approaches to religion and national identity.

445
01:29:47.630 --> 01:29:53.219
It will be useful to see your analysis against the backdrop of thinking about motives, India

446
01:29:53.280 --> 01:29:59.150
and for the other folks. We're thinking about health care questions. I think it's super useful to think about

447
01:29:59.370 --> 01:30:07.870
the ways health is paid for and governed in each of the societies you're thinking about. Is it free? Is it paid.

448
01:30:07.890 --> 01:30:19.330
you know, two-part. That's actually a kind of a useful framing. a piece of information that would help us understand what it means to become trans, or what it means to do Yoga, in other settings.

449
01:30:20.200 --> 01:30:21.150
Thank you.

450
01:30:21.400 --> 01:30:32.250
Okay, then, we don't have much time, but perhaps we can follow again the same order of your presentations. So, Francis, if you want to say a few extra words.

451
01:30:32.299 --> 01:30:37.210
you will need the microphone, or otherwise coming here? There is another question.

452
01:30:38.650 --> 01:30:44.329
Yeah, yeah, you can stay there. Just use. Please use the microphone. Otherwise sweaty cannot hear you.

453
01:30:48.260 --> 01:30:50.469
No. yeah. So

454
01:30:50.740 --> 01:30:58.310
I think you talked about looking at some of the background of the people that go to these presenters.

455
01:30:58.650 --> 01:31:04.199
I think that's a very good point. And in Ghana there's diverse

456
01:31:04.620 --> 01:31:07.560
the form of background of these people.

457
01:31:07.690 --> 01:31:15.059
Some have argued that in some cases people who patronize these centers are people who are not financially

458
01:31:15.070 --> 01:31:20.930
are in a good position, and so they are not able to go to

459
01:31:20.969 --> 01:31:25.689
the hospitals to stick to Tr. But if you go to this, and as you realize that

460
01:31:25.770 --> 01:31:33.990
there are diverse forms of people. There are, I mean, children of ministers of state, high-profile personalities. We have people from

461
01:31:34.040 --> 01:31:40.200
from even other non-christian religions also also going to displays. And so I think it's

462
01:31:40.650 --> 01:31:43.989
it's more of the the word use of

463
01:31:44.129 --> 01:31:56.019
of people that drive them to this place to seek the kind of help that they intend to seek. But also, I think one thing I also find out, that sometimes the way of

464
01:31:56.360 --> 01:32:03.820
it is an agency form of a way of coming to terms with their owners when they have tried to consort.

465
01:32:04.040 --> 01:32:33.249
They was, or different healing methods or therapeutics that is not working for them. It becomes one of the please that they they just go there to to just seek help when they've tried all sort of healing methods. And it's not working. So we have. I mean people. We've been travelling from outside of Ghana, from their neighbouring countries like Codivo Atogo. coming in to to seek help at these places as well. So we have very diverse. I mean, background of people come into this space. Yeah.

466
01:32:33.400 --> 01:32:37.860
thank you, Francis. Now, Swadi, can you?

467
01:32:38.350 --> 01:32:42.650
 is it so? This story? You're

468
01:32:44.190 --> 01:32:45.969
thank you. So many. We can hear you.

469
01:32:47.020 --> 01:32:59.419
Swati Soren:  So in the larger political context of India when we look at tribal, or it is a community which is very marginalized, or

470
01:32:59.559 --> 01:33:13.950
Swati Soren: it is not in the so called mainstream society. So through the sedna movement, especially of the center movement I that I talked of, and the religious meetings that are happening every week in these

471
01:33:13.950 --> 01:33:32.610
Swati Soren: Sannah groups. These places of worship through these people are trying to assert their religious identity through political means. they are demanding for greater autonomy through the Pesac that is in place in India. extension of Panza, the Raj Act.

472
01:33:32.620 --> 01:33:33.709
Swati Soren: and

473
01:33:34.370 --> 01:33:49.700
Swati Soren: even in jobs and in educational a arenas they are trying to assert their identity, and they want their people to be more represented in the in the political and even the public domain as such.

474
01:33:49.700 --> 01:34:09.460
Swati Soren: So even if this movement or the things that are happening are happening at a very regional level. But the the effort that is being taken, especially when we speak of sign up the demand for Sarna port that is happening. So Sara code is actually

475
01:34:10.150 --> 01:34:26.319
Swati Soren: demand that is happening for a separate religious code. So in India there are several religions, and for each of the religions like for Hinduism, Christianity, Muslims, 6. There is a separate religious court that

476
01:34:26.590 --> 01:34:33.190
Swati Soren: governance there social institutions, marriage, property, laws, and all. But there is no separate

477
01:34:33.250 --> 01:34:59.840
Swati Soren: laws as such for tribal people. for the who follow sidna religion. So the demand is being made, and an effort is being made to be heard at the national level, so that such laws is being passed which give a specific identity, a distinct identity, political as well as a religious. To these communities we are talking about the

478
01:35:00.020 --> 01:35:15.380
Swati Soren: I hope? I answered the question, and maybe we we can take this further when we we delve into this this paper more so we can take into consideration the political aspect as well in the future.

479
01:35:15.400 --> 01:35:16.440
Swati Soren: Thank you.

480
01:35:16.740 --> 01:35:19.409
Thank you very much.

481
01:35:23.750 --> 01:35:35.399
Thank you for your question. And well, yes, the relational model tries to thinking through the self-attention processes as a relational process is something that can apply

482
01:35:35.550 --> 01:35:40.260
to anyone. But but what makes a particular to this, a specific grip

483
01:35:40.540 --> 01:35:42.700
has to do with

484
01:35:42.830 --> 01:35:47.869
the level of precursors they are living in. So even if

485
01:35:47.880 --> 01:35:55.400
they do have certain knowledge about health, natural remedies. But don't having the money to buy the plants they need.

486
01:35:55.470 --> 01:36:02.829
or they would prefer biomedicine. But the quality of health care service that they have access is not the one they trust.

487
01:36:02.980 --> 01:36:11.280
So locking not just the resources, material resources, but also locking the trust. And this also relates to

488
01:36:11.360 --> 01:36:15.680
the kind of resources that that some that sometimes they have at hand.

489
01:36:15.890 --> 01:36:28.850
 There are brigades of practitioners, for example, that go to the shelter providing primary care, and some of them lack of trust on these kind of services. They

490
01:36:29.040 --> 01:36:42.379
some of them perceive like that's better than nothing, but that's not the kind of service that I am. I will be trusting. They don't speak my language. They I'm I'm not feeling

491
01:36:42.480 --> 01:37:10.159
trust enough to disclose everything. What is going on with me. So what makes particular to this relational process are also the power relations they are living in, so they would like to combine. They combine, but they sometimes they are. They would like to follow more one direction, but they can't, because they don't have the resources. And what is also, I think, particular to this religious and a spiritual aspect.

492
01:37:10.350 --> 01:37:17.780
that in some cases this embraces the whole process of going through a health problem.

493
01:37:17.910 --> 01:37:23.220
But it it is also like feeling trying to fill the gap of

494
01:37:23.500 --> 01:37:35.320
not trusting, not being confident of the effectiveness of the treatment. and religious and spiritual approaches, is like trying to support, to provide hope.

495
01:37:35.470 --> 01:37:44.699
and in their relief, and so on. So I think the way that this not just knowledge is, but also forms of care interact

496
01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:49.430
are in there a specific way in a context of

497
01:37:49.790 --> 01:37:52.110
a deep inequality in some cases.

498
01:37:53.450 --> 01:37:55.780
Thank you, Olga Leticia.

499
01:37:58.380 --> 01:38:20.569
Thank you regarding the the questions about how Yoga practitioners do use or negotiate with the health care system. Maybe I can mention that my population is mainly people of the middle class. It it does mean that they have resources to to use a a wide range of

500
01:38:20.590 --> 01:38:27.930
of health care, behavior, alternative complement area and so on.

501
01:38:28.210 --> 01:38:32.890
They've got a quite instrumental relationship with

502
01:38:33.110 --> 01:38:59.569
with conventional medicine, and at the same time they strongly value the power of Yoga as a tool to to Hill. It does mean that they always put stuff in in balance, and, for instance, they will make the decision to try. If they have got a minor health issues. They will follow the tuition before taking a pill, and always cannabis kind of stuff. So the

503
01:38:59.650 --> 01:39:05.939
it's and they have the urgency to to be quite instrumental with the use of the hardware system.

504
01:39:06.340 --> 01:39:09.290
I think. but it

505
01:39:09.350 --> 01:39:17.470
in case of surgery's illness. Usually it in circumstances of serious illness, does the make a step to take it seriously.

506
01:39:17.530 --> 01:39:21.220
and to be an in closer relationship with our

507
01:39:21.240 --> 01:39:24.490
with professionals regarding

508
01:39:24.620 --> 01:39:53.489
maybe the questions to take into account the embodiment experience. I do agree. totally it just. It was just due to a need to make a choice for my two-day presentation. So it's a main point of my of my Ph. D. And maybe to answer to yog, of course. Yeah, I'm sorry. It's a little bit. I would agree that it's a useless definition. It was just a little bit to to position myself, maybe

509
01:39:53.490 --> 01:40:08.479
also to give just the information to people who are not necessarily familiar with the literature about Yoga. For so, just to mention, to mention my focuses on unbodied practice. And, for instance, not

510
01:40:08.930 --> 01:40:17.699
seeing my my field work, as in a structural or B Asian perspective as could do ironic art class. For instance.

511
01:40:18.000 --> 01:40:47.230
I'm nothing about food, just about food I want to to mention thinking about. your talk yesterday. you were speaking about the the tenancy of sandy terrorism. And I think, of, of course, in in Yoga, the Yoga world there are a lot of symbolizations and spiritualizations also of food, but at the same time there is a strong tendency to to be a little bit in a sanitarist

512
01:40:47.340 --> 01:40:49.720
relationship with all of this

513
01:40:50.690 --> 01:40:51.480
stuff.

514
01:40:51.990 --> 01:41:04.620
I'll be very quick just on polls, a question on health care in a case that I looked at. It's crucial. It's very important, because not many countries

515
01:41:04.680 --> 01:41:10.199
have give access to to gender-affirming interventions

516
01:41:10.300 --> 01:41:18.580
for transgender people. So in this case, that's why I specified, even in Catalonia, which was more advanced in comparison to the rest of the Spanish state.

517
01:41:18.690 --> 01:41:32.560
and this also pushes the migration flow of transgender people to these areas. These countries, in my case, just one person used to live in Barcelona, but doesn't live in more.

518
01:41:32.560 --> 01:41:57.920
she lives in Italy, and which is a funnel and funnel you in in Italy. It's not approved the use of medical treatment. So she uses her her financial power to have access to these treatments. And when regards to what Mom mentioned about the limits of spiritual engagement and medical engagement. It's very interesting. I've got 2 different cases here.

519
01:41:57.920 --> 01:42:14.619
for instance, she initiated the gender-affirming intervention. She's from Guatemala, and in her past she she engaged with Pentecostal churches and the Evangelical churches in Guatemala

520
01:42:14.670 --> 01:42:17.399
and her mother, she was very connected to her mother.

521
01:42:17.420 --> 01:42:22.290
I mentioned to her that whatever happened she should just keep

522
01:42:22.390 --> 01:42:24.660
Being

523
01:42:25.150 --> 01:42:36.240
a man in terms of the type of interventions that she would be able to do so when she moved to Spain. She just did

524
01:42:36.300 --> 01:42:58.189
the the intervention partially But she remained with some male organs, because she was still following the the influence of her mother, who said that God always made us as connected to our genitals. So this affected her a lot, and she decided to not go through the whole gender farming process.

525
01:42:58.440 --> 01:43:05.819
and the other case is silvatica. And it's a different case. Because she.

526
01:43:06.040 --> 01:43:26.959
her her relationship with her body was always overpowering. The relationship. The medical relationship with her body was always overpowering her relationship with spirituality. So, for instance, she would consult the cod to to see about her future in work, for instance, or in her love life.

527
01:43:26.960 --> 01:43:49.919
but she'd never consult, related to related to her. surgery, for instance, she said, like, what have you asked the cards about how it's going to be your life after the surgery, and I'll never consult this, because this is something that I choose, and this is my power over my body. So in this case, spirituality is very this sort of like, there's this functional

528
01:43:49.920 --> 01:44:06.959
approach to to spirituality. And in in general, what I've what I've felt, and what I heard is that this this overpowering of of the body and medical knowledge of our spirituality is is quite common except on the case of of of fergy.

529
01:44:07.770 --> 01:44:30.459
Thank you very much, Rafael Shawadi. I see you are rising your hand, but we really need to leave this room since we have another session session here. But I'm sure you will be willing to continue sharing your thoughts and ideas through email congratulations to the organizers since this session was really rich with wonderful presentations that really

530
01:44:30.490 --> 01:44:39.730
talk each other in a very interesting way. And well, I hope you will continue this a little further

531
01:44:39.890 --> 01:44:41.670
congratulations to all of you.

532
01:44:41.840 --> 01:44:44.000
Thank you.