WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:01.480
all right, everyone

2
00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:04.089
welcome to the session.

3
00:00:04.470 --> 00:00:06.790
My name is Otila Martin, and I have the

4
00:00:06.900 --> 00:00:15.790
on of hosting you. Thank you, everyone for for coming, and this is also, I think, a very good way of ending the first thematic group

5
00:00:16.210 --> 00:00:38.719
track in digital sociology. So we're very happy that we had the opportunity to to run this track, and also we are very happy for all of you to have contributed, and showing up and engaging in discussions and hosting and organizing and running. So we we thought we reserved the last 10 min to have a little bit of a round up of the thematic group itself that way the president of the thematic group will talk

6
00:00:38.770 --> 00:01:06.770
you a little talk, and then we'll we'll see where we can take it from here. So Having said that I would ask the presenters to stick to the time, so we have enough time in the end to round the whole track up And then, before we start, don't forget we have a Oreshua to give a keynote presentation about his new book. There's a 20% discount here for you to to pick it up. Highly recommended book to to read.

7
00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:13.740
Please help yourself, but before we start, allow me to

8
00:01:14.590 --> 00:01:17.369
Pia respects the hopes.

9
00:01:17.540 --> 00:01:18.520
Put this away.

10
00:01:18.990 --> 00:01:22.520
To acknowledge the technology of country

11
00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:48.530
on behalf of everyone gathered. I pay respect to the spirit of country here in Laron, where we are meeting, I acknowledge the past and present colonnation, Voronjeri Voiburung as the sovereign people. Here the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the norm aboriginal law customs and custodianship, responsibilities for country and the people. That country continues to sustain generation after generation into the future. For all of us

12
00:01:48.930 --> 00:02:03.199
I recognize the important contribution that first nations. Thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to a dominant ways of thinking. We thank all first nations delegates in the room today for their contribution to knowledge and the discipline.

13
00:02:03.870 --> 00:02:12.500
All right, let me just set this up here real quick, so we can start the session. Let me just hide

14
00:02:12.980 --> 00:02:14.429
the video panel

15
00:02:14.470 --> 00:02:16.040
and oops.

16
00:02:18.170 --> 00:02:18.930
Okay.

17
00:02:19.830 --> 00:02:20.730
there you go.

18
00:02:23.010 --> 00:02:26.189
and height floating across. There you go.

19
00:02:26.220 --> 00:02:28.600
all right. So welcome to the session

20
00:02:28.630 --> 00:02:47.059
to Probably a central question about the arithmetic group. Do we actually need a thematic group about digital? So do we need to have a social edge of the digital and I would invite the presenters to actually answer the question with a resound, Yes, no, maybe, or it depends.

21
00:02:48.640 --> 00:03:00.759
But before We go into the the power debate which we will have afterwards. So please keep your questions for a panel a bit about that. would like to invite the first presenter one

22
00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:05.680
to talk about storytelling. Right, please. The mic is yours.

23
00:03:06.090 --> 00:03:09.249
Presentation and just click on.

24
00:03:18.810 --> 00:03:22.879
Hi, good afternoon. My name is Prattichi, and

25
00:03:23.090 --> 00:03:33.830
it's an honor to speak here today also. I think we've been trying to speak about. Do we need a sociality of the digital and

26
00:03:34.140 --> 00:03:57.899
all of us in this thematic group would agree? Yes and We have been trying to speak about that through all of the different sessions, and I think a little more of the same. And Perhaps I would try to give it through the context of my own Ph. D. Which I was submitting to as the very end of the first lockdown after the pandemic and

27
00:03:58.070 --> 00:04:18.229
try to talk about storytelling and the digital, and how storytelling then evolves with the presence of the digital around us, and why we then need to think about the digital in the context of storytelling slightly differently from what we have been thinking about storytelling previously.

28
00:04:18.620 --> 00:04:20.010
And

29
00:04:20.270 --> 00:04:22.290
so just to start

30
00:04:22.990 --> 00:04:34.149
sociology, social anthropology. We've always been interested in the idea of storytelling and hypotheses, studied stories. mates, legends, folklore.

31
00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:59.029
in order to sort of try and make sense of the society around us. And we've been interested in patterns of readership. We've been interested in audience reactions. We've been interested in different kinds of fads and fashion that come out of cinema and different kinds of stories that are popular. we have been very recently interested in fans and phantoms and fan communities that are created around different kinds of stories.

32
00:04:59.030 --> 00:05:07.809
And we try to use the content and the form of stories in order to make sense of society. And we've always done that.

33
00:05:07.810 --> 00:05:14.200
For example, in India. If you look at the epic Ramayana.

34
00:05:14.200 --> 00:05:39.139
which is, of course, a religious text and an epic story that is very popular with everybody, and it is presented in many different forms. So the text is studied as a religious text or an epic story. But there's also folk dances in folk theatre that perform the story and studying those would tell us more about the communities that perform these

35
00:05:39.140 --> 00:06:02.020
different ways. In the 1,900 ninetys there was the television show on the Ramayana, which became immensely popular, and this was just as the Hindu right wing was rising in India, and the key figure RAM then became a the hero of this epic became the protagonist of

36
00:06:02.020 --> 00:06:31.700
the rightful movement as well. So and scholars have then studied the Ramayana and the television show and the different kinds of theaters to make sense of the political climate. There've been feminist readings of the ramina, and all of this is just to sort of talk about how the the same story can be so can be presented in different forms through different kinds of technology, and that tells us something about the society and its changes.

37
00:06:32.230 --> 00:06:42.219
and many different Indian scholars have spoken about technology and storytelling and the communities that they create in different ways.

38
00:06:43.890 --> 00:07:07.109
Now, when we think about storytelling, we usually think about it as a very oral practice with, you know, an elderly person sitting around the fire and telling our stories, and the term storytelling then, has 2 sides to it. One is the story which is the content, and the other is the telling, which is the process of the telling.

39
00:07:07.110 --> 00:07:25.999
And if you look at somebody like Walter Benjamin, they spoke about the death of the storyteller with the coming of the novel itself, because now it was in the printed form, and it was no longer oral, and you could not have this immediate to and fro between the listeners and the storyteller

40
00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:53.450
and The story, necessarily, according to Benjamin, does not have a fixed ending, or a fixed beginning which the novel has. So, therefore, With the coming of the novel, or the printed form, or the bound story. They would argue that the story was dying, or the storyteller was then dying. However, there have been many different scholars who have then come in and talked about how

41
00:07:53.450 --> 00:08:03.349
cinema or how television can also do storytelling in many different forms. And it's not just the oral way of storytelling which is storytelling.

42
00:08:04.250 --> 00:08:15.090
 and then the other side of the project is to look at the study of the digital within sociology, and

43
00:08:15.550 --> 00:08:39.740
there are several scholars who who everybody has spoken about through this entire conference. But I would like to talk about first. firstly, Marshall Mcluhan, who spoke about different communication errors, and he was speaking about even before coming off the Internet. And he was speaking about how society changes, depending on the mode of communication in that particular phase.

44
00:08:39.740 --> 00:08:55.210
Secondly, manual casters, who very famously spoke about the real virtuality, in that there is no distinction between the virtual and the real anymore, and to have such a distinction in the present era is quite farcical.

45
00:08:55.210 --> 00:09:23.840
So what we have now is all of us living in virtualities and physicalities, which is sort of intertwined together. So it is a form of real virtuality. And Finally, Robert Latham and Saskia assassin who speak about socio-digitization and speak about digital formations in that digitization does not take place out of the context of the society.

46
00:09:24.930 --> 00:09:42.150
 so my project was primarily looking at storytelling on the Internet and focusing on web series mainly transmedia Web series. And I was trying to talk about how the Internet then provides us different.

47
00:09:42.150 --> 00:10:00.249
different platforms for narratives which are fictional and non-fictional. And I was looking at Web series, which is a very particular specific kind of storytelling on the Internet and the Web series can then be seen as digital texts

48
00:10:00.280 --> 00:10:20.270
which are continuous and transforming and ever embedded into each other. And why, I say they are continuous and not bound because of the Internet and the ability it provides for the people to interact with the content that is presented on the Internet. So what you would have

49
00:10:20.270 --> 00:10:33.100
is pictures taken out, and then the audience would interact with it in a certain way, engage with it in a certain way. You would have means and and gifts created out of scenes from the Web series.

50
00:10:33.100 --> 00:10:58.100
You would have people talking about the Web series and then creating their own fan fiction around it. You could have people interacting with, not just each other within the community, but also with the creators of the content, and sometimes the characters as well. So one of the Web series that I was looking at was a Transmedia Web series called The Lizzy Benet Diaries.

51
00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:20.520
and this was an adaptation of pride and Prejudice, and how the Web series went about was basically it was a Vlog style adaptation on Youtube, where the lead character, Lizzie Bennett was vlogging, and she was talking to the audience about her life, and what happens, and her sisters and Darcy and all of that, but also the show had

52
00:11:20.810 --> 00:11:43.360
Facebook accounts and Twitter accounts for all of the different characters. So you could see Lizzie and Darcy interacting with each other on Twitter. You could see Jane posting on Instagram, and what you could also then have was the audience then interacting with these characters on these different social media accounts?

53
00:11:43.360 --> 00:12:06.630
And Some of these comments from the audience would be taken up in the next episode through Q. And A. Sessions, or Lydia talking about. You know how everybody thinks she's obnoxious, and so she's going to be more obnoxious now. So this, this sort of a community of storytellers was also being created where the audience was very much participating in the storytelling process.

54
00:12:07.050 --> 00:12:32.349
And This became even more Clearer with the pandemic where the digital and stories were interacting so much because now you could not physically shoot anymore. You could not do a lot of the production and the post-production in the physical world. So everything was happening digitally. so if you look at a show like the stage, which became very popular. This was put up on BBC,

55
00:12:32.350 --> 00:12:55.090
and what they did was the actors would shoot themselves within their homes through their mobile phones, send files to the director and the producers through the Internet, who would then be sitting in another part of the world, creating it together, editing it online and then posting it online. So everything was happening

56
00:12:55.090 --> 00:13:09.349
digitally, including the production itself, and that for the first season the actors do not even meet each other, because it was filmed entirely during lockdown, and there were several other shows like this which were there in India and in different parts of the world.

57
00:13:10.390 --> 00:13:38.039
So I would like to say that something like the Web series and other forms of stories on the Internet. Then look at the convergence of technology and the audience participation in storytelling. So you had different kinds of Ott platforms in India which had the tagline go digital or something in along similar lines. And what the

58
00:13:38.040 --> 00:14:00.860
Internet then allows for is the shrinking of time and space where you can have these kinds of interactions and this kind of a community that is possible because of the mobility and flexibility. And people now being able to watch these shows at any point in time, because there is no fixed schedule around it. So there would be people travelling in the Metros

59
00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:08.410
who would be watching different shows, and what this also meant, that it was not just the person who had the control of the remote

60
00:14:08.410 --> 00:14:31.839
at home who was watching these stories. So I I got to speak to a lot of homemakers and housewives who thought that, you know it was easier to watch it on my mobile phone rather than fight with my husband for the remote. So those those kinds of stories would come in, come in, and So I would like to talk about the concept of the prosumer given by Alvin Toffler.

61
00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:46.140
who speaks about how, with the coming of this kind of Internet and the web, 2 point. Oh, then you have a people who are creators and producers as well as consumers. So this is the kind of thing that was happening.

62
00:14:46.890 --> 00:14:49.670
And finally, this

63
00:14:49.670 --> 00:15:07.190
community that is created around the Web series, sometimes, quite encouraged by the creators themselves, because they might be small creators. And this is a good way to advertise and spread spread awareness about the shows that they are creating.

64
00:15:07.190 --> 00:15:26.239
These these communities become, then, communities of interest and not simply communities of proximity, and in many ways can then challenge hierarchies or create belonging Feelings of belongingness! Relationships of friendship, much like communities in the physical world would

65
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:35.230
and at the same time they can also carry identities from the physical world into the virtual space

66
00:15:35.230 --> 00:16:00.109
identities of race, religion, gender, and therefore create conflicts around that as well. So in India, what happened was now because the Internet had become such a free space that people were trying to create more content on the Internet to avoid the censorship laws that was there on cinema or television. So now the government is trying to bring in rules to regulate the Internet itself. And what kind of content you can talk about.

67
00:16:00.110 --> 00:16:21.170
And I started with the Ramayana. This, the the poster of this show. This is a political thriller that was there, and created a lot of controversy because one of the characters was called Shiva, and was quite resistant to the State, and there was a whole controversy around it, and whether you could name such a character, Shiva or not.

68
00:16:21.660 --> 00:16:45.890
so do we need a sociology of the digital I would argue, yes, at least in this context. because it had become immensely popular. It has become immensely popular in terms of the sheer number of people who are watching stories and consuming and producing content online. And this is just a a list of different, different statistics around it.

69
00:16:46.040 --> 00:16:47.600
and

70
00:16:47.900 --> 00:17:10.909
I don't have a lot of time to talk about it. But I'll be happy to answer any questions around this later. what I was looking at is the Internet as a field because I was looking at the Internet space. But I was also looking at the Internet as a method of doing research in that I was reaching out to people on the Internet. I was doing cybethnography for a lot a lot of the research. So

71
00:17:11.070 --> 00:17:40.320
I would say that yes, we do need. And a sociology of the digital. And particularly in the context of storytelling. This is something that we don't look at very often from a sociological perspective for the digital, at least in India. We don't do that as much because we usually look at Internet in terms of mass communication or talking about the news, but not so much in terms of leisure and pleasure.

72
00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:43.970
and I think that's required as well. Thank you.

73
00:17:54.700 --> 00:18:00.759
All right. Thank you very much. excellent presentation. Thank you.

74
00:18:00.790 --> 00:18:04.019
So. Let's move on to committee, please.

75
00:18:09.530 --> 00:18:28.540
Hello, everyone. My name is Kamala Mozini Allister. My presentation installed digital sociology and desire for only presence. Introducing a key conceptual tool. It is a result of my Phd. Studies, and it is already published as a book. But I will try to be as brief as as I can, and not assassinate

76
00:18:28.580 --> 00:18:38.529
the research in 15 min, and I also would like to and acknowledge the presence of all of you, all of you in a Saturday after the finish of the

77
00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:42.939
party and event. So I acknowledged that, and thank you for being here.

78
00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:51.860
 so My question for this research is, why is it no longer enough to be the offline ordinariness of the here? And now?

79
00:18:51.960 --> 00:19:06.829
I remember, I was in 2,017, in the Vatican, in the Sistine Chapel, with my husband and In the Sistine Chapel we don't speak. It's a muted place. It's a sacred place, place, and in silence he pointed towards the ceiling

80
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.300
and

81
00:19:08.580 --> 00:19:11.820
 pointed towards the

82
00:19:11.870 --> 00:19:20.070
a painting of a Michelangelo. The creation of Adam, and without saying a word, got his phone and touched in the screen.

83
00:19:20.090 --> 00:19:24.240
and in that moment, with, I got a little bit

84
00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:29.329
astonished with the resemblance of the gestures, and I was questioning.

85
00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:35.610
Are we trying to mediate our relationship with the divine 3 screens? And if you ask how?

86
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:44.419
So this presentation investigates the search for the expansion of the I when I'm in the it, not the I. It is the self

87
00:19:44.730 --> 00:19:49.889
beyond the limits of the body, based on the concept of anthropo techniques.

88
00:19:50.040 --> 00:20:04.970
That is, techniques by which the communities of the human species and the individuals that compose them act on their own minimality with the go to guide, expand, modify or domesticate their biological subject.

89
00:20:05.030 --> 00:20:27.820
However, since every anthropo technology implies a zoo political substrato, we will enter the delicate realm of Zoe, which etymologically means spectrum sulfur Romanini spectrum has 2 assumptions. The first one is, in a broad sense, it. It pertains to the incorporio creatures like angels, God.

90
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.919
and it is expressed through the spirit.

91
00:20:30.950 --> 00:20:35.010
and carries a common and anthological ground between spirit and spectrum.

92
00:20:35.370 --> 00:20:42.450
In a strict sense, spectrum is related to beings that survive their own death

93
00:20:42.750 --> 00:20:46.820
or establish a point of indistinction between life and death.

94
00:20:46.940 --> 00:21:03.579
Under this light the spectrum can be completely material or acquire different consistencies. So he's basically bending the notion of biopolitics in focal, where the body and life is a means of calculation, and try to understand this distinction of the by life and death.

95
00:21:03.690 --> 00:21:14.140
So among so many different contemporary. Anthropologies I have chosen to, but in particular, which are mediation and meditation.

96
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:34.990
The reasons for this choice were based on 3 main factors, first, the identity and the popularity of this practices, second, the very goal of the Tantra, which is the kind of meditation that I analyzed is intimately related to the core of the concept of anthropot techniques as an expansion

97
00:21:35.010 --> 00:21:38.219
and domestication method of the biological subject.

98
00:21:38.540 --> 00:21:51.809
So he will say, The definition of Tantra, according to Psychi, is the spiritual practice which liberates the aspirant from the doughnut or animality of the static force. And it's expense.

99
00:21:51.820 --> 00:22:07.560
The aspirin's self. So what am I understanding for meditation? Meditation for me is understood as a direct process of inner expansion towards the limitlessness, through the subtleization of the mind and various methods and techniques.

100
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:15.269
Mediation, on the other hand, is the an indirect process of external expansion towards the limited limitlessness

101
00:22:15.300 --> 00:22:17.550
through the centralization of the body

102
00:22:17.580 --> 00:22:20.089
as a virtual profile on the screen.

103
00:22:20.370 --> 00:22:36.119
Both anthropo techniques converge in an attempt to reach the beyond human or the divine something in the of the order of the unlimited, of the non-conditional to the variables of space and time that is here synthetized by the notion of desire for omnipresence.

104
00:22:36.710 --> 00:22:48.860
So, methadol. Also I want to just highlight that this top emerged from my own use of social media, because, even though I want, I am fully aware of the insidious

105
00:22:49.380 --> 00:23:01.149
personal data collection and policies, I realized that there is something beyond our rationality, critical thinking, or any form of logical reasoning reasoning at play, and it is a desire.

106
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:28.569
and it a desire. It is a desire that is frame framed within these notions of effective turn and immaterialities, and the materialities of media, and how we are creating understanding these materialities of our technologies as well as as discourse, not only in language itself, but also the technologies. As a discourse so based on the research problem, how the desire for omnipresence produces modes of expansion of the biological subject.

107
00:23:28.690 --> 00:23:45.350
A methodology was based on 3 pillars, theory, practice, and form. So theoretically, I organized a media archaeology of the screen and the mind operationalized from the material regularities of shocks, dots, and waves

108
00:23:45.500 --> 00:23:58.199
translating theory into practice. These regularities were experienced from the combination of a sensory auto ethnography, as well as a digital like ethnography from the collection of more than 600 posts.

109
00:23:58.280 --> 00:24:05.880
and as Michel focal places experience as the generating metrics of knowledge, power, power, and ethics of self.

110
00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:19.670
this methodology aims to investigate the sensorial and material impact of those mediated and meditated bodies and affections through the experience of the researcher body who was here the guinea pig of its own experiment.

111
00:24:20.150 --> 00:24:26.590
So the conduction, the conjecture between theory and practice was formula formally soon, and organized the

112
00:24:26.600 --> 00:24:33.349
from of a vampire tritic game of symmetries that are organized like an inverted mirror

113
00:24:33.750 --> 00:24:36.540
to give expression to villain, flickered

114
00:24:36.550 --> 00:24:41.730
villain, closer disclaimer for a phenomenology of the body.

115
00:24:42.010 --> 00:24:42.960
So

116
00:24:47.740 --> 00:24:56.390
in the book, mediation and meditation were developed in different chapters, but I will here I will present them already as the inverted mirror powers.

117
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:13.980
so in the process of meditation, straightaway requires the sertilization of the frequencies of the waves of the physical body. The first layer of the mind called Anamyakosia, through the devoted effort of body contortions, and Yoga postures, a soye associated with a vegetarian diet.

118
00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:26.040
The electrical circuits activated doing such practices are encapsulated by the scheme and involves involve physiologic and hormonal reactions controlled by the points and dots of the chakras.

119
00:25:26.060 --> 00:25:33.879
That is, the 7 energetic forces located along the spine that initiate the process of in inner expansion of the eye.

120
00:25:34.420 --> 00:25:47.180
The mediation processes, on the other hand, require the minimum effort of the finger chips on the to connect the body to the electronic circuits of the apparatus through the null shock between

121
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.189
fingertip and screen.

122
00:25:49.670 --> 00:26:00.590
Unlike circuits that are exclusively internal to the body, there is an energetic symbiosis between the nervous system and the screen between the carbon skin and the crystal skin.

123
00:26:00.660 --> 00:26:18.339
that by promoting the outer expansion of the eye, turns the apparatus apparatus into a body. It's no longer. It's not by chance that is, it is called a cell phone. so both anthropo techniques diverge. However, they converge, since they both enact on daily habits.

124
00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:38.580
Harsh Akara, one of the system systematizers of Tantra Yoga, will say that meditation is the process of cutting through the radius that is, there is an individual eye, a self that clumsily revolves around a dot which is the divine dot of supreme cognition, Parama Porousia, or God.

125
00:26:38.950 --> 00:26:51.460
To touch this point it, it is necessary to stop rounding and cutting through the radius to grasp the dot of the divine. So through techniques of visualization and internalization of images called shouldis

126
00:26:51.530 --> 00:27:06.440
shoot. These are procedures of introspection and abstraction from the concrete experience of the outer space of the body until it shatters the eagle and reduces all mental images of the eye to a single.in the cosmic consciousness.

127
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:17.390
in mediation practices. On the other hand, the divine point that makes the eye unlimited beyond the body itself is a point materialized by the shock on the screen.

128
00:27:17.950 --> 00:27:27.609
So so, instead of cutting through the radius to grasp the divine dot of the soul. The procedure now is to duplicate oneself by the tangent

129
00:27:27.700 --> 00:27:30.560
closer, would already have

130
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:34.180
Fussy had already said, in the notion of letter of abstraction.

131
00:27:34.270 --> 00:27:38.739
that, in order to become aware of the completeness of the world, we would first

132
00:27:38.750 --> 00:27:44.910
distance ourselves to better grasp it in the form of images made of computed dots.

133
00:27:45.270 --> 00:27:58.830
In this case the individual I creates a double of itself through a profile dot made of pixel points in the screen, completing a straight line between the body and the body of the apparatus.

134
00:27:58.950 --> 00:28:13.670
deviating from the interiority from the center, where existential questions, such as, Who am I? Leave? The eye distances itself from the soul in order to better grasp it through a virtual profile

135
00:28:17.590 --> 00:28:42.329
for the creation of a mutual feedback pathway. The profile duplicates the eye, not through mental visualizations, with eyes closed, but through techniques in which the eye ceases to be a body with eye opens, eyes open and fingers ready to go through the protocols of the No. The social network until the eye inhabits the profile.in the great mind of Facebook, Instagram, and Tiktok.

136
00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:59.909
So 2 very distinct anthropo technologies, but they converge in so far as they promote techniques of verification of the biological subject.  and after that, after having notified the what the the I, the self. Now it is time to unite the I with the whole

137
00:29:00.100 --> 00:29:17.849
meditating. These union takes place through the shocks of the mind that ends up, cutting through the radius until it completely exhausts the game. The games of action and reactions in the wheel of some sat and crosses the 3 layer, like 3 last layers of the mind, through the intensive concentration of a manger.

138
00:29:17.860 --> 00:29:24.990
a mantra that vibrates and mentally pensates 2 syllables in Sanskrit, whose meaning is, I am infinite consciousness.

139
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:39.110
until reaching the goal of uniting the point of the eye, the dot of the eye with the divine thought of the immortal soul that it expands the body beyond space and time, electrocuting it in the golden light of samadhi shocks

140
00:29:39.390 --> 00:29:43.610
in mediation practices. The search for semi technically happens through the

141
00:29:43.740 --> 00:29:45.910
irradiation

142
00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:47.460
of the profile

143
00:29:47.590 --> 00:29:57.420
point in waves. Instead of introverting and repeating a single sound and statement, the mantra becomes the provocation of a question that asks.

144
00:29:57.470 --> 00:30:00.299
that asks, What's on your mind? What's in your mind

145
00:30:00.820 --> 00:30:08.309
now? The gesture, by the gesture of electrocuting the fingers on the screen waves of the mind waves of the apparatus

146
00:30:08.430 --> 00:30:36.650
and weighted radio frequency waves are indexed in a single electromagnetic tsunami that gives ways to the input instantaneous reverberation of the eye through the infrastructure. So reef instructions of submarine cables, antennas, and satellites, until a minimal fact in the minimal fraction of time lends on the final destinations of the timeline and the news feed. Will that starts an instant game of action and reaction between postings

147
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:39.549
and reaping likes, comments and shares

148
00:30:40.060 --> 00:30:50.940
immersed in the mental reality of the profile. The I no longer orbits around the volumetric reality of life, and starts to move around its double

149
00:30:51.110 --> 00:30:53.870
the profile through the scrolling of

150
00:30:53.980 --> 00:31:19.300
the network and the multiplication of its points through the poorly proliferation of the self in digital traces dispersed around the world, incorporating the apparatus sensors into the body and embodied the profile accessible from any and all screens. The eye expands through the desire to build an extra corporeal body

151
00:31:19.310 --> 00:31:22.699
that brings it closer to all nodes of the network.

152
00:31:22.810 --> 00:31:32.339
Now one both becomes of the size of the world, and also multiplies among the most remote devices, like an infinite consciousness.

153
00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:39.600
either by the shock of the concentrated mantra that vibrates.

154
00:31:40.280 --> 00:31:44.769
sorry either by the shock of the concentrated mind that vibrates in a mantra.

155
00:31:44.940 --> 00:32:01.509
In the waves of the screen that unfocusedly reverberate the mind through a double. Both mediation and meditation come inside as methods of abolishing distances by approaching the touch of it, of what is not capable, palpable to the hands.

156
00:32:06.940 --> 00:32:08.959
thus combining shock

157
00:32:08.970 --> 00:32:25.420
points, dots, and waves in a system of inverted symmetries. Mind and screen act as a means of inner expansion and outer expansion of the eye beyond the limits of the radius of the physical presence in favor of modes of omnipresence.

158
00:32:26.750 --> 00:32:37.819
And through this. I've also observed that when mediation becomes an addiction, and meditation and obsession, then we have what we call a general economy of light that aims at

159
00:32:37.870 --> 00:32:46.660
transforming the body into a body of light as an image, and like and likeness of the Guru, the spiritual guru, as well as the virtual profile.

160
00:32:46.730 --> 00:32:51.459
And it is interesting because Hom Andini will say

161
00:32:51.520 --> 00:32:56.110
that all entropy technologies have a single model as it as its goal.

162
00:32:56.180 --> 00:33:01.160
And this model is to reach the perfection of the resurrected body of Christ

163
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:17.760
that does not encounter physical barriers does not die, does not delay, it does not pause, the does not stumble, but above all, constitutes an impassive body, because it because it is capable of feeling without being affected.

164
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:23.190
So I'm going to finalize this presentation here.

165
00:33:23.230 --> 00:33:28.280
And the question, what are the limits for this desire to expand

166
00:33:28.340 --> 00:33:41.710
as well as moving forward? What I want to do is to promote interview surveys. Listen about these experiences of desire for omnipresence as well as understanding migrant population, experiences of desire for me, presence.

167
00:33:41.970 --> 00:33:43.190
Thank you so much.

168
00:33:50.180 --> 00:33:53.169
Thank you very much. Very thought, provoking

169
00:33:53.190 --> 00:33:59.430
presentation. So we move on. And I apologize to everybody online. I forgot to share the screen.

170
00:33:59.450 --> 00:34:03.449
but somebody fixed it for us. Now. I hope at least.

171
00:34:05.050 --> 00:34:09.580
Oh, that's your okay. There you go. Oops. Sorry.

172
00:34:14.090 --> 00:34:16.680
all right. but

173
00:34:20.950 --> 00:34:22.859
flows yours. Please thank you.

174
00:34:23.939 --> 00:34:42.860
Hi! I'm Sanna, Emma. Thank you for having me, and also thank you for being here on the last day. I'm totally exhausted. I don't know about your yeah. So this presentation is informed by my Phd research. So I'm based at the Berlin Social Science Center at a public research institute in Germany. And

175
00:34:43.160 --> 00:35:05.970
this dissertation I submitted in March this year and still awaiting my defence. But it's also a side project that I did on Germany. And when I come to the methodology I'm going to talk more about it. So I'm not going to present my whole visitation here. Don't worry about that, but it's more in terms of really bringing up for the question here and talking about talking about the social relations and the processes

176
00:35:05.970 --> 00:35:15.460
behind the business model of social media firms, the social media platforms, and really focusing on one kind of process which is called content moderation.

177
00:35:15.460 --> 00:35:38.029
Just a very quick overview. I'm going to just talk about what content moderation is. And this would also include the theoretical framework and the methodology. And I'm going to show how I try to bring in different forms of methods, but also drawing from different disciplines. So I work with media and communication sciences, but also labour sociology.

178
00:35:38.029 --> 00:36:01.720
then, just really, the findings, the work organization, the automation, increasing automation and control and then really posing back the question in terms of, Do we really need a sociology of the digital and sort of just summing it up and the future direction? So what is content, moderation, content, moderation is the screening of user generated content. on Internet sites.

179
00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:26.719
So think, for example, Amazon, E. Commerceides, but also social media platforms and the relevance of it has increased in the last many years, especially because it's crucial for removing harmful content very quickly. By harmful. I mean, whatever these technology firms, social media firms identify as harmful right? Of course, it's also influenced by the sort of debate in the public discourse of, say, for example, a couple of years

180
00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:51.720
ago, breastfeeding images were not allowed. And after, like protest in global North, specifically in the Us. Those images were allowed, of course, with conditions attached. It's also important for generating advertisement revenues. This is a big sort of logic for these social media firms, and also in terms of increasing platform predictability. So increasing investment by companies like Facebook, now, Meta, Google, etc.

181
00:36:51.720 --> 00:37:02.179
These firms in terms of the Internet infrastructure. It's not just social media anymore. In certain places, it's also become the Internet. If you think about, for example, of free basics, etc.

182
00:37:02.180 --> 00:37:26.690
when I started this research a couple of years ago, the the debate at that time was that it's already not the debate, but the sort of like the argument was that it's already it's completely automated. But it's not a large part of it continues to be. It was outsourced, and continues to be outsourced to places like India, the Philippines, where you have the infrastructure, the state arrangement for outsourcing this.

183
00:37:26.690 --> 00:37:51.690
but also off to the peripheries of the global North. And by that I mean the migrant workers, particularly so, for example, in Germany where I do this research. It was mostly the migrant workers who do this outsourced work of really cleaning the social media platforms. Great, all in well. But there is a complexity here, and that is really the uncertainties of platforms. So you have social media platforms. You might. The the platforms have these guidelines.

184
00:37:51.690 --> 00:38:16.639
community standards what goes on and what doesn't. But the users are constantly negotiating right? Because they're also coming with their own meaning, making capacities. And they constantly negotiating. So what I call the news and negotiating activities. And that's that creates indeterminacy, uncertainty. So that's one part. But the other part is also like every outsourcing, will have some kind of indeterminacy, both at the side of the subcontractor who, you.

185
00:38:16.640 --> 00:38:40.199
outsourcing the work to right, but also at the labour level in terms of their effort. Are they going to sort of put the effort, or also at the level of the mobility? Are the workers going to stay put in this firm, or are they going to move? So all of this creates indeterminencies which brings us to the question, really the main overarching question to simplify for this presentation. So how do these technology firms?

186
00:38:40.200 --> 00:38:52.549
Again, I mean Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. How do they reduce the communication and production related indeterminencies. And what are the challenges there in. So to answer this.

187
00:38:52.550 --> 00:39:17.030
as I said before, I work with labour, sociology and media and communication sciences, so with the production process. I first use the global value chain and global production network theories which really allows me to sort of work with, you know. Try to understand the inter firm governance relationships. So what are really the coordination mechanisms and governance between Facebook and their subcontractors? By subcontractors, I mean, like companies like accenture

188
00:39:17.030 --> 00:39:33.699
enforces all these big companies who, really supplying these services, they are called the suppliers right? But also the production networks allow. Looking at the role of the state. What are the role of the institutions? What is the role of the state? How is this sort of organized

189
00:39:33.700 --> 00:39:48.970
At the same time. The problem with this theory is that it doesn't really focus so much on the labor labor, especially as an active component right, which is where I use this labor process theory, which is essentially trying to understand what are the strategies of the management

190
00:39:48.970 --> 00:40:13.579
to convert the labour power of workers into productive labour. So I bring them together. But again, this is a more complex story, right like this allows me to answer the production side. But then, how do you sort of like. how do you sort of understand the uncertainties, the dynamic character of the platform, which is where I try to look at the communication process through this concept of affordances which which comes from this communication sciences.

191
00:40:13.580 --> 00:40:38.579
And it really it essentially means that what are the action possibilities for the users on platforms. For example, if you use Facebook, any platform there, those buttons, what are the technical features of those platforms that allow users to really sort of engage and make things possible for them, and this is also possible, and they are constantly changing as well to say, for example, if you use Twitter now you have the hard

192
00:40:38.580 --> 00:40:54.210
button to like. It wasn't that it wasn't the hard button, you know, it was something else. So these things are constantly changing, and it also enables, but also restricts the possibilities, the negotiating activities, the meaning making activities of the users. Okay, again.

193
00:40:54.210 --> 00:41:18.509
methodology. so I have case studies both from India and Germany. It's a myth. Mixed methods. Inquiry. in India. I did 2 field work phases, with 16 6 interviews and survey responses and participant observations in Germany. We did these 2. For together with my colleague, Maximilian Grep, we did these 2 focus group workshops. And we used a user interface design technique

194
00:41:18.510 --> 00:41:42.350
which is essentially like trying to understand what is the interface of this software work software that workers are working with right because we wanted to understand how management is, really, how control is really sort of like, experience through the software. So we used a new sort of like method, together with the focus group. focus group interviewing method. So we

195
00:41:42.350 --> 00:41:58.469
brought these different methods together. Because we found that interviews were not enough, or surveys were not enough, and so we wanted to try to do something different. again, I mean all of this sort of like. this methodology. The the process of accessing

196
00:41:58.470 --> 00:42:23.470
data and participants has been has been characterized by high degrees of confidentiality. It's highly highly secretive. This work workers signed on disclosure agreements. None of the tech firms wanted to really speak with us, so we also find, had to find ways. I had to find ways to really push through and try to find. I mean, as somebody said, digital methods. Right? Of course, I, one of my my second field work phase was during

197
00:42:23.470 --> 00:42:48.269
mit Ctl and the Covid lockdown. And then everything had to be done digitally right, because I couldn't meet anyone. This was like happening during very high economic lockdown. very strict lockdown. So so, yeah, these are the, these are the methods. okay, just before we go into the findings. I just want to show how content moderation process looks like

198
00:42:48.270 --> 00:43:12.579
platform and where users are posting. So the user content comes, and depending on what kind of content. It is, for example, child of use, material that gets automatically through it out. And this person, the thing is before, years ago workers used to still do this. They used to look at this content. They were still moderating it. But now that has been automated with both in terms of the user work. Because these software the work software

199
00:43:12.580 --> 00:43:35.940
here, it's also integrated with machine learning models that are constantly running. So I come to that quickly. if it's confusing, please ask me questions. I'm just trying to really sum it up. Everything here. So it is automated automatically filtered. If it's not then it just goes on the platform right? so, and then that my contents, for example, I also

200
00:43:35.940 --> 00:44:00.129
having a great time here right? And there is no, nothing really long about it. But somebody here could say, Well, I don't really like this one thing. What? What? She's posted right, and then they could report it so they could flag it. So this flag content then goes to the production process within the square, and there are different cues. Right? They will be hate speech while and span. Ecos is not exclusive. There are many more you. So this is just for representation purposes.

201
00:44:00.130 --> 00:44:22.900
and depending on how big that company is how big that suppliers of contract to firm is at the different levels of workers, different themes of workers, and also goes to a quality check, and that content that moderated content could also go for another phone in office. But it's also very difficult to figure out what happens afterward. Afterwards. Does it go directly back to the social media platform because it's highly highly secretive. Right?

202
00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:43.529
so how does all of this thing takes place? It takes place. So I'm focusing on that work software. Again, in my research, I look at the global value chain relations and all the sort of things and the working conditions. But here I'm just hoping for the work software and really trying to bring in the different social relations here, both from the communication side and the production side. So on.

203
00:44:43.640 --> 00:44:58.029
So on one hand, you have like, how these platforms incorporate the social media user activity. Somebody talked about the presumers before. Right? so really like, what happens is that if you want to report content. So this is an instance of Youtube.

204
00:44:58.030 --> 00:45:15.390
right? So if you want to say that I find this child abuse, and so if I click so there are like there are features. There are audiences that allow you to sort of complain. So if you click on that, and then you have to really say On which particular second

205
00:45:15.390 --> 00:45:40.280
was there the, you know, abuse. So you'd also really join from the user activities. You're depending on the user knowledge. And then, if it's next.

206
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:53.249
why this sort of plays an important project in the process, because it means relying less on workers and really join from the activities of the user. So that's one thing that is happening.

207
00:45:53.390 --> 00:46:06.059
And the other thing is also, as I mentioned before, the software is also integrated with the machine learning model. So they're also constantly learning from the labor activities which is called the codification of label knowledge.

208
00:46:06.060 --> 00:46:30.030
And then there are also like really limits to that, you know, because you can't sort of codify. You can't sort of record everything in the software. for example, there are unique cases that come. And then workers are trying to figure out. You know, they might be using a kind of paper. They might be talking to something. Everything doesn't get recorded. Whatever gets recorded is how when the worker interacts with the software is what really gets recorded

209
00:46:30.110 --> 00:46:37.149
right? So what does it mean in terms of implications? Why? Why is this organization of work important?

210
00:46:37.280 --> 00:47:02.260
Where? How does it function? Right? On one hand, it allows these tech firms, Facebook and all to really centralize control. You know, you're reducing the functions of the suppliers. The suppliers are mostly to manage human resources, as you know your wages, etc. And but it really allows them to centralize controls. They can direct work to workers. You can read this more in my in my work. and it also results in. And it allows them

211
00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:25.980
monitoring workers. They have, you know, sort of like detailed aspects of what workers are really doing through this through their work software through this organization of work. And it also results in asymmetric power relations, you know. So the tech phones are getting really powerful, and the suppliers have a limited function. So here we talk about the functions of these plants and limited possibilities for these suppliers. If you look at

212
00:47:26.040 --> 00:47:51.020
global value chain sort of discussion. What are the possibilities of the suppliers to really climb up? So it limits their possibilities of climbing up in terms of the working conditions. It's a highly fragmenting task, you know, before workers, for example.

213
00:47:51.020 --> 00:48:03.820
Australia is great, whatever or not, and when they see that content. They could see who posted it. When was it posted? What was the context? Did I put something else? Now, workers cannot see that that all that context is taken from the users.

214
00:48:03.820 --> 00:48:28.069
you know. So you're also sort of really highly standardizing work, you controlling their time. And it's also resulting in deskaling. And here by deskaling. I mean, you've replaced certain tasks, you know, you've taken certain tasks from them, and you're really really limiting there. And this is all again, in terms of indeterminacy, because these firms don't want to have any sort of errors and indeterminacy coming. So they really want to highly control it.

215
00:48:28.540 --> 00:48:53.530
Okay, my last slide. What does what does all of this mean? in terms of maybe the future direction in the sociology of digital right? I mean, as I talked about there are. So there is theoretical value in terms and and and also methodological value, enjoying on different concept different methods and all. And this is especially relevant. If you think about. If you think about automation, how are we studying

216
00:48:53.530 --> 00:49:02.839
there? There's loads of work on techno-deterministic things like, for example, if you increase a routine

217
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:27.830
of work, utilization, automation will follow. No. But if you focus on the sort of the power relations, the complexities of the product, etc., etc. So sociology has a lot of things to say about that. But I think what I also wanted to pose here. Do you see a theoretical value in really sort of opening up this traditional capital labor relations and doing in this user activity. I know there's a lot of

218
00:49:27.830 --> 00:49:40.710
of debate on the Marxist side. We can't really call user activities as user labor. We can't really identify that sense. So I really want to sort of bring this up and maybe discuss this more. And yeah, thank you for your time.

219
00:49:49.220 --> 00:49:56.760
Excellent. Thank you very much. We will have a great debate after this one, after all the presentation I'm looking forward to that.

220
00:49:57.250 --> 00:49:59.590
You're next. Thank you very much. Yes.

221
00:50:01.930 --> 00:50:18.469
Hi! So, hey? I'm Vern. Thank you for for having me here. I'd also just like to quickly acknowledge the the traditional custodians of the and knowledge holders of the land we're visiting on and also the land where I've done most of my research on

222
00:50:19.810 --> 00:50:21.589
But without further ado.

223
00:50:22.590 --> 00:50:29.850
I'm talking about cyber deviance. And basically, what is that?  And

224
00:50:30.080 --> 00:50:31.390
so essentially.

225
00:50:31.960 --> 00:50:45.529
it's I'm proposing it as an umbrella term. through my my Phd project. it's the a lot of the things that we're already used to hearing terms for, but in the literature at large

226
00:50:46.050 --> 00:51:00.690
all of these terms are often conflated between one another like, is it bullying? Is it trolling? Is it bile? Is it wanted? Is it unwanted? Are there emancipatory aspects to it or not?

227
00:51:00.850 --> 00:51:18.780
so it's basically a term that incorporates a lot of these and and more. so yes. Now it's you. You're inappropriate online conduct. it's it's conflicts that's more than just your disagreement. It's your proverbial shit storm. That appears in comment sections. it is cyber bullying and online harassment.

228
00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:31.940
It's trolling it that can expand as far as spamming or griefing in games where where other players come in and intentionally wreck what other other Netizens have have made?

229
00:51:31.950 --> 00:51:41.529
 it's also the spread of misinformation, propaganda, conspiracy, theories fake news.

230
00:51:42.340 --> 00:51:46.769
So that's generally what it's talked about in the, in the literature at large.

231
00:51:46.860 --> 00:52:00.789
but there's no one agreed upon term for it. These terms are often conflated between one another. So through my literature review, I've kind of found that there are 3 general ways that it's been styles, that it's being talked about.

232
00:52:00.850 --> 00:52:02.859
and they are

233
00:52:03.350 --> 00:52:08.030
my style, one which is your your entertainment and and jovial trolling.

234
00:52:08.230 --> 00:52:33.600
So this is where there's this a lot of humor use. It's the the the buffoonery, the like, playing dom to get a laugh, to see if you can create outrage by just saying the outrageous thing without meaning it. So it. It has a lot of like irony and use of that. It's more about the spectacle and relates highly to to Jack Kat's theory of the sneaky thrill.

235
00:52:33.820 --> 00:52:40.559
where it's it's not so much like crime as as like going and

236
00:52:40.570 --> 00:52:50.389
and stealing to eat. It's oh, the candy bar is right there, so I'll take it because the opportunity arises. It's that sneakiness of getting away with it

237
00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:55.530
that's there that makes it entertaining. And so I would separate

238
00:52:56.030 --> 00:53:03.100
this as trolling as opposed to cyber bullying, which a lot of the time, particularly in journalism.

239
00:53:03.720 --> 00:53:11.569
Those 2 terms are used to interchangeably, and I think that's shouldn't be the case, because to the trolls

240
00:53:11.700 --> 00:53:13.020
they get away with it.

241
00:53:13.190 --> 00:53:22.870
But if you call them cyberbles or harasses, because that's what they're doing when it's talked about in, particularly in on, on news articles and things.

242
00:53:23.330 --> 00:53:32.400
It stops them from from getting or feeling that getting away with it and saying, Oh, this is just this light thing that's going on, whereas whereas

243
00:53:32.410 --> 00:53:51.990
cyber bullying and online harassment has a more serious aspect to it, it is that targeted attack. It's got that power relation thing that's going on. it's it's about aggression. It's often more personal. There is. This is what happens in not so much in comment sections, but in personal messages

244
00:53:52.040 --> 00:54:00.960
it it separates those 2 out from that spectacle, and the the humor, and then, and entertainment to this more serious

245
00:54:01.010 --> 00:54:05.980
on the side of where where hate, speech can be part of it, and things like that.

246
00:54:06.250 --> 00:54:20.580
And so I I say, I separate them out in the literature in order to be able to call a spade a spade and say, no, that is hate speech. That's not just trolling. This isn't just a light entertainment, fun and games.

247
00:54:21.260 --> 00:54:29.610
 and then there's the other one which I'm calling it, which is Style Iii, which I'm calling anti-establishmentarianism.

248
00:54:29.720 --> 00:54:41.570
mainly because this happens in that way where it's people who are making comments similar to the other 2 styles. But in a way that's

249
00:54:41.990 --> 00:54:47.689
trying to stop change. So it will

250
00:54:48.310 --> 00:54:53.090
do the entertaining, jovial, trolling style in order to

251
00:54:53.120 --> 00:55:21.329
stop a conversation that's going on to to turn it into a sheet storm rather than have it become a comment discussion that is actually going to discuss the the the the incident that's that's being talked about, particularly in, say, news, article comment, sections, and people will be talking about the article. And then someone comes in with a with a comment, that kind of just derails that conversation. And so I know now the

252
00:55:21.330 --> 00:55:38.279
participants are talking about the issue that is at large. So it is, has a way of of shutting this down. I came up with this, because there, this is where, like there are governments who are involved in doing this very activity, and that is their purpose.

253
00:55:38.610 --> 00:55:44.749
this is, you know where there is that proliferation of propaganda?

254
00:55:45.290 --> 00:56:10.490
So. But it's not necessarily done only in a like government or or organizational way. Some people do it just because they believe the conspiracy. They are like. They think that they're doing the right thing by by shutting that conversation down, or by by bringing up that conversation, or in other times, which I'll get to in a moment. I've seen

255
00:56:10.700 --> 00:56:24.589
particularly where surrounding climate change. People will use spamming tactics to just spam a whole heap of articles that are all in favor of how you know climate change is an anthropocentric thing going on.

256
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:36.209
but in doing so. It creates the conspiracy that hang on. Is this just a a bot from that platform? Is NASA just spamming all of their information to

257
00:56:36.280 --> 00:56:40.899
to try and convince the public. So this is where where

258
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:51.820
the 3 styles kind of separate out into one another. and that's kind of where I'm proposing through my my Phd thesis

259
00:56:52.490 --> 00:57:00.560
right to to to create these 3 styles and use them as a tool for studying cyber deviance in general.

260
00:57:00.980 --> 00:57:02.250
Yeah. So

261
00:57:02.700 --> 00:57:06.830
leads me on to what my actual project is.

262
00:57:07.020 --> 00:57:16.839
so I'm looking at the at, the at cyber deviance in the everyday setting. So this is in comment sections on Facebook news articles.

263
00:57:17.240 --> 00:57:18.129
So I've

264
00:57:18.250 --> 00:57:27.330
very specifically gone. Okay, I'll pick 4 news article news outlets. So 2 news outlets and 2 satire outlets

265
00:57:27.510 --> 00:57:40.119
just to see where that but use of humor plays into it.  All about the the January, the twentieth, 20 black summer bushfires in Australia.

266
00:57:40.520 --> 00:57:53.070
So I I picked January as the the month, because there's so many comments on all of these. I've had to kind of narrow down the parameters of what I'm looking at. Otherwise I'd be just still looking through comment sections.

267
00:57:53.100 --> 00:58:06.060
 yeah. So I picked ABC news, Australia, sky news, Australia. And then the 2 satire articles satire pages were the Batuda Advocate and the chaser Australia.

268
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:14.299
I won't go into it too much, because I've got another presentation after this downstairs in, I think. 2, 1, 12.

269
00:58:14.670 --> 00:58:22.389
So if you want to hear more about my my project, I'll be talking about it specifically that it's a little bit of shameless self-promotion.

270
00:58:22.540 --> 00:58:36.880
but generally, like I, I've I've managed to to go through and say, Yes, this. This is a a viable tool to kind of be able to separate out and discuss these comments, and when when they are seen as inappropriate

271
00:58:37.200 --> 00:58:51.849
into these 3 ways that they are inappropriate, or why this is that other participants in the comment. Sections deceive them as inappropriate. When people do get on board with the joke and go. No, this is you I like on it, particularly on

272
00:58:51.910 --> 00:58:57.089
the satire articles that we'll be poking fine at climate change deniers.

273
00:58:57.330 --> 00:59:10.199
I'll pope like the commenters, will make fun of their friends and say, oh, this is like a conversation we just had. This is your uncle, and and they will be that that name calling that goes on within. It sounds like it could be bullying

274
00:59:10.530 --> 00:59:24.069
to any outsider it might be. But then, you see, the reactions to it, and the other people who are tagged are laughing along and joking in in and part of that joke. So it's it's a good way to kind of say, well, hang on.

275
00:59:24.270 --> 00:59:32.669
is it happening in this ebile way. Is it always toxic? Is it allowing participants to do other things?

276
00:59:33.150 --> 00:59:45.199
Yeah, so essentially, that's that's kind of the the gist of of what I would have been able to find. I like to leave a lot of time for questions. So I'll wrap this up now.

277
00:59:45.780 --> 00:59:55.160
But yeah, because it's such a weird thing. Yeah, I'd prefer to leave that for questions to be honest. Yeah.

278
01:00:03.090 --> 01:00:13.500
yes. essentially. Because because this can do that thing of separating out what is like a hard, aggressive

279
01:00:13.530 --> 01:00:28.490
power plays and cyber bullying from what is a playing and having humor as as fun like, where where does that line cross like, when does the joke stop? But being funny? And when is it an attack? So yes, we do. In order to

280
01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:30.969
not feed the Trolls, I guess.

281
01:00:31.330 --> 01:00:36.420
Thank you so much. And if I am not wrong.

282
01:00:36.790 --> 01:00:39.180
which sometimes happens.

283
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:45.349
we should have Patricia online. No, there isn't actually nobody online.

284
01:00:45.600 --> 01:00:50.969
Oh, sorry Let's see if Patricia

285
01:00:52.810 --> 01:00:54.319
there is no Patricia.

286
01:00:55.670 --> 01:01:00.769
Is anybody else from Patricia's team online to present the the fifth paper.

287
01:01:02.090 --> 01:01:12.809
It doesn't seem like it. Well, then, I guess we can move on to the panel debate if I can ask our presenters to join us on the table. Penalty

288
01:01:14.430 --> 01:01:19.559
was was a fifth presenter scheduled. But okay.

289
01:01:19.690 --> 01:01:23.960
so I will just stop sharing the screen.

290
01:01:27.310 --> 01:01:34.829
If there any questions online, I think it's just fair for you to unlock your or to unmute yourself.

291
01:01:36.030 --> 01:01:38.970
and I can take it from there. Okay.

292
01:01:47.570 --> 01:02:00.169
so this should work. so I I just wanted to. If I open up the floor. Say, I'm I'm so. This is one of the reasons why I got on trip. I wanted to join a digital sociology

293
01:02:00.240 --> 01:02:28.670
push in the sociological field, because I really love the diversity. So I think digital sociology should be very diverse, very welcoming. And we should celebrate this kind of diversity talking from from enlightenment and divinity to labor to divine, and so on, and interpretation of. So I really love that. But we had a really broad spectrum. I think we should cherish and celebrate that, at least from my perspective. so I open the floor to questions.

294
01:02:31.500 --> 01:02:32.400
There you go.

295
01:02:32.730 --> 01:02:39.099
Thank you. All really really nice to listen to all your presentations. I have a question specifically for Fern.

296
01:02:39.300 --> 01:02:50.560
Thank you first of all, for introducing a new Mary Poppins term, and as a kid, I had to practice that a lot. So now I can do yours. And I was wondering. So

297
01:02:50.590 --> 01:03:00.880
if you talk about of 2 questions, number one. If you talk about the humor and people responding to that, did you also talk to the people who responded to that?

298
01:03:00.900 --> 01:03:24.989
Oh, is it more an interpretation of like the discourse that was happening. Because I can also imagine that you know also, in indirect interactions, you can also go along in the joke, while you don't really think it's a joke, but it's more of you have to, so you'll laugh along. But you don't really want to laugh so in in. How do you establish that boundary done in your research? That's question number one and number 2 is.

299
01:03:25.660 --> 01:03:33.540
to whom does this speak so? Who for whom are these categories? Helpful

300
01:03:33.600 --> 01:03:47.779
is it for the people who sent the message? Is it for the people who receive the message? Is this something that can help us teach children how to deal with social media conversations.

301
01:03:48.050 --> 01:03:48.870
Thanks.

302
01:03:50.720 --> 01:03:54.069
I mean. I can bring it up.

303
01:03:55.680 --> 01:04:10.099
First of all, I didn't get the ethics approval to really do too much with with talking to people? also they hard to find. How do you find someone who's gonna openly admit to being a deviant online.

304
01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:26.529
So yeah, so that was, yeah, I wasn't really able to to to get that side of it. So it is highly. Just a me looking at it and and going well, how does that discussion unfold? Do the other people who are part of it

305
01:04:26.890 --> 01:04:46.890
be part of the continue the joke, or do they get angry about it? Are they upset and things like that? So essentially, I kind of just looked at whether they were approving of the comments or upset at the comments And then from there kind of was able to go. Well, in what way are they showing, expressing their upset and things. So it is very much a

306
01:04:47.260 --> 01:04:58.200
I'm looking as a lurker on that space and going well, here's what I can see, so it's as as as an everyday other participant who was would be scrolling through a comment section

307
01:04:58.220 --> 01:05:05.690
might interpret it. that's that's question. One. who is it? For?

308
01:05:05.730 --> 01:05:08.000
Mainly it's

309
01:05:08.500 --> 01:05:16.610
I've I've started out as a it's for other researchers, as a tool to kind of be able to then talk about this and be able to then

310
01:05:16.760 --> 01:05:29.009
say, Well, what's really going on in these spaces rather than have that blanket rule of Oh, it's all toxic. This is why the Internet is bad. This is why comment don't read the comment sections.

311
01:05:29.040 --> 01:05:49.000
for one part and others. It's like, you know, from that. Then other users can go. so this is how jokes can be seen on online and things like that. So there is that other follow-on part of like when it does then get to mainstream media. And and when they talk about it, it's not talking about

312
01:05:49.220 --> 01:05:57.410
everything is trolling. So everything on the Internet is is this terrible space. It's Here's how we can call out

313
01:05:57.460 --> 01:06:05.010
the bad, the actual, hurtful, harmful commentary. And here's how we can not just lump in

314
01:06:05.100 --> 01:06:10.000
people telling jokes as part of that. That's

315
01:06:10.090 --> 01:06:11.250
yes. Yeah.

316
01:06:12.590 --> 01:06:13.709
Anybody wants to.

317
01:06:16.120 --> 01:06:19.250
All right. Thank you very much. All right. As a question here.

318
01:06:21.750 --> 01:06:46.440
Hi, Tim Klausens are from the Technical University of Berlin. And I actually like to. We formulate the question, do we need a sociology of the digital into? Isn't there already a sociology, also, digital. Like speaking from my own institution, we have at least 4 chairs dealing with

319
01:06:47.260 --> 01:07:15.799
digitalization. And I I think we have been very bad, and also publishing articles in English, so that can be also 1 one reason you know, why it's not so red, but at least in Germany and in Europe there is so much conferences actually about technology and and to digital. And I just wanted to. Also you to ask, like, what do you find is missing in this discussion. Maybe. Thank you.

320
01:07:20.200 --> 01:07:21.230
Thank you.

321
01:07:22.430 --> 01:07:45.409
I I agree with you. I mean, I also live in Germany. So I know how pervasive it is to talk about digitalization within the sociology circles. yeah, I mean, I think I would open it up to other presenters. How it is in different geographies, but also making in internationalizing it more like the topic and making it more mainstream in sociology, perhaps the topic of of digitalization.

322
01:07:47.120 --> 01:07:48.420
Hi,

323
01:07:48.540 --> 01:08:15.800
so yeah, to an extent, there is already a sociology of the digital in that the digital is being spoken about. But I don't know. If in all parts of the world the digital has been the focus of discussion so much, particularly in certain areas. for example, in India, most of the work around. digital sociology has been around a context of violence online or trolling online.

324
01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:24.649
or in terms of the Internet as a source of news and fake news. And around that

325
01:08:25.000 --> 01:08:54.940
research on digital communities and different kinds of that has happened already, and particularly in India, because we come from a very social anthropological tradition. We have this idea of doing field work go in in terms of going somewhere and spending time there. So when I was proposing my Ph, d. As well, there was this idea of, Okay, but what is the field? Exactly. And so this conversation around

326
01:08:54.940 --> 01:08:59.590
the digital space being an actual space where you could

327
01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:11.780
embed yourself in that you could do. Ethnography of the digital was a question that had come up, and me and my supervisor had to really defend during our proposal. So yeah.

328
01:09:13.330 --> 01:09:15.250
thank you for the question.

329
01:09:15.620 --> 01:09:22.030
I think you responded brilliantly. I'm going to be very brief.

330
01:09:22.550 --> 01:09:43.639
We need a sociology of the digital, recognizing everything that he has been done before, even outside of sociology, talking about the digital which has been a lot and to dialogue with this other fields of work and bring it to sociological thinking, to social social analysis and to the understanding of how digital

331
01:09:43.900 --> 01:09:48.240
platforms are shaping the way society behave, think, and leave

332
01:09:48.440 --> 01:10:04.180
so yes, usually. there the still, the main discussions in sociology are inequality, power. education and the hard core subject. So I think, really, creating this field is a way to

333
01:10:04.180 --> 01:10:22.750
create possibilities for new ways of thinking that are already here. And we need to. Maybe, as Audi was proposing in his book, you know, adapt and fix and dress the concepts that we already have, and see what has already been done that can be

334
01:10:22.780 --> 01:10:33.090
used and dressed and embodied. And what are the new things that are emerging and phenomenon that are emerging that are completely different.

335
01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:40.179
and have singularity, historical singularities that we need to actually take into account through a social ends.

336
01:10:41.910 --> 01:10:46.290
I don't have anything you to say. You've got something a lot. Very well, yeah.

337
01:10:47.380 --> 01:10:49.559
thank you very much. All right. You have a question.

338
01:10:52.190 --> 01:10:57.809
There you go. Yes, I have 2 questions to Kamila first.

339
01:10:58.110 --> 01:11:03.219
I wonder whether you assume

340
01:11:04.040 --> 01:11:27.829
a human constant of metaphysical desire to word the infinite, because if you do as it was implied in some seconds, it would be an interesting tension with the fact that both phenomena you describe offer themselves very easily. To these, you know, posthumanist points of perspectives

341
01:11:28.030 --> 01:11:29.100
are.

342
01:11:30.400 --> 01:11:46.570
And the second question, and if it is, even if you do not imply such a human concept of metaphysical desire to over infinity, I wonder in which situation there are circumstances you would find this phenomenon.

343
01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:58.610
and, secondly, you mentioned in your last slide migration, and I would like to you about more about this, and how this connects to this story you've been telling us.

344
01:12:00.870 --> 01:12:02.260
And they

345
01:12:02.320 --> 01:12:13.310
okay, so can I in that sentence, just regarding what you are saying. We have sociologists studying the digital

346
01:12:13.710 --> 01:12:30.950
but digital sociology, of sociology, of the digital is a bit different. I mean, we entered a discussion that started before us among media and communications, scholars and scholars and other disciplines. And now, aligning this debate that already exists with the core

347
01:12:30.950 --> 01:12:48.389
cause of a sociological discipline and with our ways of thinking and seeing. The social world is a work that should be done. So the fact that sociology is studying the digital doesn't already mean we have digital sociology or sociology of the digital.

348
01:12:51.050 --> 01:13:06.450
I can bring back the mic to you if you have a response to that. But first the answer from the on the panel, not now. I give you 5 min, but then I will. I will sneak up on the on behind.

349
01:13:09.640 --> 01:13:14.999
All right. So that's why. Thank you for your question, Audi.

350
01:13:15.410 --> 01:13:18.799
It is interesting because for

351
01:13:19.180 --> 01:13:32.299
the the the Bh definition, in 2,018 the book was published in 2,021, and since then from 2,018 until now I haven't talked about

352
01:13:32.420 --> 01:13:33.910
much

353
01:13:34.160 --> 01:13:51.460
the meditation part of the research, because for a it is extremely difficult to talk about it, and second, because it's easier to me to present the notion of desire for me present through the lanes, through the lanes of anthropology only, and it's useful and it works. But I was. I realized that I was missing out

354
01:13:51.740 --> 01:13:57.270
on the most interesting part of the research without presenting it.

355
01:13:57.310 --> 01:14:01.799
and the why I brought it is this

356
01:14:01.910 --> 01:14:09.900
human, constant desire for the infinite. It is an assumption.

357
01:14:10.050 --> 01:14:19.080
maybe. but it's coming from. Maybe it's not clear in the presentation as well. But it's coming from the notion of

358
01:14:19.090 --> 01:14:24.749
desire. For on limitlessness, which is kind of a

359
01:14:25.140 --> 01:14:49.169
assumption of Yogic practices and anatomy, and how they systematize this desire for limitlessness. And how we have this want to expand the mind through towards something that has no boundaries. it is coming from this perspective. And it's a phenomenological perspective. It is a phenomenology of

360
01:14:49.490 --> 01:14:54.939
how this knowledge and this practices that are. I'd say it.

361
01:14:55.280 --> 01:15:03.760
have been going on for the last 10,000 years have empirically brought this. But my intention is I'm not here to

362
01:15:04.030 --> 01:15:15.269
make you believe in it. I don't. It's it's nothing. I don't think anyone should believe in it. What I want is because it's for me really surprising how these 2 practices

363
01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:19.360
behave as an inverted mirror. I wasn't expecting that.

364
01:15:19.510 --> 01:15:28.720
And it's extremely I think unique to so to find and systematize these connections because

365
01:15:28.770 --> 01:15:45.620
I I I wasn't expecting that as well when I I resisted as much as I could to bring that into as a subject of research, because for me, it's you know, it's something else. But at the same time I think it's super important to understand it through the lanes of this

366
01:15:45.640 --> 01:16:00.500
spectral materialities that we are constructing. Now, for example, I'm really eager to see the National Gallery that has an exhibition. Some went with AI virtual reality, and you simulate, emulate your death.

367
01:16:00.510 --> 01:16:18.360
and you see your soul coming out of your body. So what are these oncologies? And Homandini? Which is this philosopher sociologist that I'm working with? With? He is Argentinian. He is still not translating into English. Unfortunately, because he is

368
01:16:19.010 --> 01:16:34.059
a genius, he's publishing one book every year. I can't handle it. It's like too much for me. I'm not this kind of person. I'm a mortal person that gets tired, but he is not, and he keeps publishing around this

369
01:16:34.120 --> 01:16:36.090
and

370
01:16:36.410 --> 01:16:40.050
and he is talking about this mead

371
01:16:40.360 --> 01:16:49.640
of a new ontology that understand these spectral presences and the materialities, and how the human species is

372
01:16:49.660 --> 01:17:07.070
formatting itself away from its animal condition through the millennia. It's my landlady doing that. And he talks about the need of these new ontologies, these ontologies of Ontropo technologies, because without it. We cannot comprehend

373
01:17:07.150 --> 01:17:36.739
the the ways of in which we are building ourselves as humans and no longer animals. So I am not a posthumanist at all. I don't align with this, even though I recognize, like you, the the importance and the ways of doing that. But I'm I'm really trying to understand. What is this that we deny, as humans that look back and see ourselves as a completely different species. That is not animal anymore. How are we trying to reprogram our affections

374
01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:40.489
through the desire to be something that is

375
01:17:40.720 --> 01:17:54.309
like a body of light, like a virtual profile that doesn't feel doesn't doesn't have a basic instincts of survival which are hunger, fear, sex and sleep.

376
01:17:54.490 --> 01:18:11.040
And all all these emotions and these basic survival instincts are also in meditation, practice aligned with in furious chakras, lower chakras. And all these chapters have different emotions that are terrible. And this is a part of our humanity that we are trying to reprogram

377
01:18:11.100 --> 01:18:12.720
through these techniques.

378
01:18:12.740 --> 01:18:32.090
And so I'm very critical of anything that I'm not trying to say. Believe in the the notion of meditation. Believe it. I I'm just proposing. It's an interesting way, together with new neurosciences, together with psychoanalysis, to think about the relationships of mind.

379
01:18:32.400 --> 01:18:33.789
And

380
01:18:34.100 --> 01:18:47.760
to how this search for the mind is mirroring. Our search is on the screen. It's just that I don't have an assumption, but they do have, and it's an interesting one, because I think it's productive. It allows us to think.

381
01:18:48.130 --> 01:18:49.180
did I answer.

382
01:18:52.350 --> 01:19:04.759
I don't have a response to this, but I wanted to bring up the question again in terms of, do we need a sociology of the digital and discipline? And I'm trying to think through this.

383
01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:34.599
Does a discipline need to answer everything? Or should we? We be actually encouraging? You know, interdisciplinarity? Rather. This is a question that I want to pose to you. And I actually was interested in presenting my research here because I was just grappling with this capital labor relations. Where do users fit in? What is the process of value, capture, etc. So I just want to ask you, shall I be content with bringing different disciplines, or shall I try to expand the discipline of sociology?

384
01:19:35.110 --> 01:19:36.290
What do you think?

385
01:19:38.740 --> 01:19:40.590
Good question.

386
01:19:46.600 --> 01:20:03.290
I want to link to your question because I've been wondering the whole week I'm an information systems. scholar myself. So I've been wondering the whole week how many sociologists are in the room, because there are so many different disciplines. So if you would say I'm

387
01:20:03.420 --> 01:20:14.670
only a sociologist, I'm not. There's no no opinion or a value added to that. But how many people in this room associate that? Only a sociologist

388
01:20:16.450 --> 01:20:43.380
it's like half I would say, No, yeah, because I say I'm not. I'm not giving any. No, but I'm not. So. That's why I say I'm not adding any attaching any value to this, but I think that already, if we talk about sociology, And the need for multidisciplinarity, and bring in in other views, I think that that is the nice thing of already being here is that it is already multidisciplinary that people are coming from different

389
01:20:43.550 --> 01:20:55.050
disciplines, all interested in this same phenomena and bringing forward sociology, using sociology and building on it. So yeah, I'm just happy. I could solve.

390
01:20:55.580 --> 01:20:59.310
We might be finding fertility for us. So I think every one of us.

391
01:21:00.480 --> 01:21:02.910
And the fact that we're working on this new company.

392
01:21:06.580 --> 01:21:33.029
we are the mainstream. Right? That is the question. Yeah, so. And and if I can use this power of my and ask K. Camila another question. I I was wondering what would. What do you want to achieve by adding this immense layer of complicity and adding God to theorizing. Digital, because for me, it's just making it

393
01:21:33.340 --> 01:22:00.730
uncomprehensible and really, empirically very hard to apply, which for me is a very important thing, so I would like to be able to use the theory to apply it. My research and I don't think I can put God and omnipresence anywhere. Right? So maybe it's just that I don't understand. And I would like to get to. Maybe you can just explain it in in simple terms for people who

394
01:22:00.940 --> 01:22:04.659
are not theologists, and don't do yoga

395
01:22:05.280 --> 01:22:09.370
meditation either. So I really don't get it. Obviously.

396
01:22:09.840 --> 01:22:18.810
 thank you so much for the question. can I?

397
01:22:19.070 --> 01:22:41.469
I forgot to address your second question of about migration very quickly. These experiences of desire for me, presence to be here, there, and everywhere. At the same time, I feel especially being in Brazil and in Australia, who is a very distant. The the geographical distances are immense. It's a radical distance.

398
01:22:41.600 --> 01:22:46.660
There is this feeling to be here and there, because when I'm sleeping, they are waking up.

399
01:22:46.690 --> 01:22:58.869
So I really, I really want to understand about the experiences of Brazilians in Australia. How do they feel this displacement and these deteriorities deter the territorialization of their bodies?

400
01:22:59.010 --> 01:23:20.840
Within this want to be close to something that is not possible. And how are they using the technologies and the devices and the social media platforms to create new ways of being present in places that they are not. So. This is my interest in rel to my migrant populations. Specifically Brazilians in Australia.

401
01:23:20.900 --> 01:23:41.450
 What do I want to achieve? I don't know if I am to achieve anything. I think what I want to achieve is If I can say that is a new lens to understand these experiences that are so mundane. I had a video on my slides that is.

402
01:23:41.450 --> 01:23:53.339
I didn't play because it's 2 min. But anyway, of people just being caught up in their phones. And they are describing this feeling of panic, this feeling of

403
01:23:53.340 --> 01:24:10.310
If I lose my ph10, my gosh! I don't know what's gonna happen or I'm just. And and then they describe, I'm just in the social media. And they they give data statistics about the people that feel addicted to it. I really want to understand

404
01:24:10.320 --> 01:24:17.789
how this phenomena is happening and what is engaging, what what is the desire that is driving it.

405
01:24:17.820 --> 01:24:27.969
And in taza, which is the conference before this I presented it more as a methodological tool.

406
01:24:27.980 --> 01:24:46.480
On the fields of where can we apply this? And there is a specific book book chapter that is being published, published about it. If you want, I can. I can send you the the article. But The fields that I see the application of this notion! For example, the questioning of the limits of this expansion.

407
01:24:46.500 --> 01:24:52.769
until what point. It is sustainable to keep expanding to the cost of

408
01:24:53.300 --> 01:25:04.850
slavery work, mining, and so mental health issues. What is, what is the human nature? If we can speak like about it if we accept ourselves as animals.

409
01:25:05.180 --> 01:25:19.319
what is this human nature? That is the question of sociology for such a long time also. what is this? What are these technologies that are being constructed now? A day such as

410
01:25:19.360 --> 01:25:31.899
virtual reality, augmented reality. artificial intelligence? What are these technologies trying to aim? Are we trying to emulate this resurrected body of Christ

411
01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:34.240
to be a weird

412
01:25:34.840 --> 01:25:41.420
Paul Cle Angel that will not acknowledge the ancestor technologies

413
01:25:41.530 --> 01:25:54.709
that have already been here with indigenous peoples for such a long time. So it is a critical concept. It's not a neutral one, and it, I think it allows to describe both the experiences of displacement

414
01:25:55.400 --> 01:26:01.269
beyond the notion of being corrupted by the market.

415
01:26:01.490 --> 01:26:11.940
or because we're fully aware of how social media plays. But what is this that is driving us to be there? And of course you can use it without the meditation part.

416
01:26:12.500 --> 01:26:16.410
Just feel free to do it. I just. It's been 5 years. I haven't

417
01:26:16.430 --> 01:26:29.370
actually talked about it, and it's not meant to be something that is closed to these meditation parts. But it's a way of understanding what is driving these desires from

418
01:26:29.430 --> 01:26:36.930
a phenomenological perspective that I think is interesting and drives the connection between the transcendental and technologies.

419
01:26:38.770 --> 01:26:39.740
Yeah.

420
01:26:40.080 --> 01:26:44.160
if I can just quickly respond to

421
01:26:44.350 --> 01:27:18.650
the question on, why do we need a sociology of the digital at all? And I think she raised a question in terms of should a discipline answer everything? And clearly not because, what we are trying to do is ask questions, and that is why, the A. A discipline would be worth doing if it was answered already. I don't think it would be worth doing it right. So I think what a sociology of the digital can do is enable us to ask new questions

422
01:27:18.780 --> 01:27:29.530
and open up new spaces for exploration within the digital which which were perhaps not available earlier in terms of either. The methods

423
01:27:29.530 --> 01:27:53.289
were not available or the spaces would not be seen as sociological fields at all, so that, and also in terms of interdisciplinarity. Sociology has always been interdisciplinary. We have always borrowed from many different kinds of disciplines, so digital sociology can very well continue to do that and yet exist as a discipline in itself.

424
01:27:53.350 --> 01:27:54.020
Yeah.

425
01:27:57.270 --> 01:28:12.939
thank you very much. let's collect the people all included online. Lucy. I'm sorry we got carried away with the discussion here, but you had your hands up, and I'm not sure if you are still online. Oh, yeah, you are. Please let's see if you ask a question.

426
01:28:13.340 --> 01:28:15.930
Lucia Ratih Kusumadewi: Yes, thank you. Chair.

427
01:28:16.030 --> 01:28:24.430
Lucia Ratih Kusumadewi: I'm so sorry to enter the station late, but I would like to ask, maybe, for all of the presenter and also the forum

428
01:28:24.810 --> 01:28:35.469
Lucia Ratih Kusumadewi: about the digit. I want to raise another issues about the that. The digital media is dominated by the capital is.

429
01:28:35.710 --> 01:28:43.650
Lucia Ratih Kusumadewi: So. for example, there is a digital algorithm driven by the capital owner.

430
01:28:43.830 --> 01:28:50.439
Lucia Ratih Kusumadewi: And then, my question is doing it, doing it. The sociology of the data. Thank you.

431
01:28:54.880 --> 01:29:17.380
Yeah. Thanks for bringing this question up. Lucia. You probably don't see me. okay, it's there. Okay? Great. yeah. I mean, algorithms are such an interesting question. Right? Because because a lot of times there is agential properties attached to algorithms. I'm very critical of the actor network theory, sorry to anybody who uses it here, but in the sense that

432
01:29:17.430 --> 01:29:46.699
attaching agency to technology sort of mystifies further, what are the interests of the people shaping and managing the technology right? And for what interests and for what? ends. So I think we need to. We have like existing tools. In terms of power, relations, social relations, value, capture, etc., that we can use for studying these. these algorithms, as you're talking about in the context of a capitalist economy.

433
01:29:50.600 --> 01:29:54.879
Yeah, so I think

434
01:29:55.040 --> 01:30:11.899
most of the structures and institutions around us are capitalist in that in most, in most part of the world. So. But what happens is within this. As humans, we make negotiations, and we try to sort of

435
01:30:11.900 --> 01:30:35.409
work around it, either in support either against it resist. And all of these things. So with the Internet, particularly, what I see in the context of India is that of course, there is this huge digital divide that the Internet itself is not available to everybody. So when I speak of the Internet, or when we are studying the Internet of people who are present online is a very limited part of the population.

436
01:30:35.410 --> 01:30:41.800
But even within that what the Internet can and does to an extent

437
01:30:41.800 --> 01:31:04.810
do is allow people to express some opinions which were perhaps that kind of ability was not available earlier, but at the same time there are constraints around it. So it is a very 2 way in that. that. There are constraints. People try to negotiate within that try and file new loopholes around that.

438
01:31:04.810 --> 01:31:17.999
So? It is not very clear in terms of yes, it is just constrained all the time, because people do sort of try and be creative. Try and work around things. I think in

439
01:31:18.090 --> 01:31:35.990
one of the previous presentations somebody mentioned that. Okay, there might be words that are banned, but you could use emojis to indicate a certain word. You could take a picture and post that online. So there are things there are ways in which people sort of negotiate. these things

440
01:31:35.990 --> 01:31:50.080
so? yes! It is not a very clear, sort of very structured way of constraints and people either conforming or resisting. There are negotiations all the way.

441
01:31:52.090 --> 01:32:11.739
Thank you. I'm just gonna add to what you said, because I think it's said everything. But I think we we can also talk about the possibilities of resistance with the Liz when he proposes this, scopes and bubbles of non-communication by callers of non-communication as well that you know just

442
01:32:11.990 --> 01:32:19.610
Out of these forms of digital adjacent digitalization and digital traces

443
01:32:19.650 --> 01:32:26.319
as a way of resisting. I was listening to a researcher

444
01:32:26.340 --> 01:32:37.259
that we met that she was talking about a book that says that nowadays one of the biggest forms of resistance is to sleep. So yeah.

445
01:32:40.240 --> 01:32:46.779
I think, as you say, like the the the forms of resistance to it is It's one of those those things that

446
01:32:46.850 --> 01:32:50.470
where people will find a way to say that bad word.

447
01:32:50.580 --> 01:32:59.479
even if it's not the way that the algorithm is looking for it. And that's always going to be that that innovation of all. How do we get away with being deviant.

448
01:32:59.540 --> 01:33:02.819
and and in a form of resisting. So, yeah.

449
01:33:06.280 --> 01:33:08.799
thank you very much. We have a question here.

450
01:33:10.410 --> 01:33:21.890
yeah, hello. Thank you for your presentations. My question goes towards. I I think you had in your slides, I think, a bullet point that said outsourcing rather than fully automated.

451
01:33:21.890 --> 01:33:44.059
So. I was wondering, is there such a thing as fully automated algorithms? Because people write algorithms first of all, and then, even if you look at it, you know. AI. Then we have a lot of training that needs to be done, a lot of classification that you know. You also touched on that with a fully automated part in in yours and

452
01:33:44.060 --> 01:33:57.859
I think it when open. AI published a tete oft earlier, you know. Then there was articles about outsourcing. the the the yeah, the horrible parts of of the classification to Kenya. I think.

453
01:33:57.890 --> 01:34:11.749
so. My my question, you know, would be, do you include in your your study also the impact on the personal lives of those people who do have to classify these things.

454
01:34:11.750 --> 01:34:28.370
and a second part would be Do you have any tips, or could as well could walk us through? You know you said it was very secretive. How did you get access, maybe just very broad. And any tips of you know, if somebody wanted to follow up how to approach that, that be us.

455
01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:57.960
Yeah, thank you for the questions. by fully automation I meant the absence of human beings from the process of screening content. Right? And this is again just a sort of like this is 6, 7 years ago, right? That there's no human beings involved in doing such distressing work of removing like violence and horrible horrible content that it's all automated, but that

456
01:34:57.960 --> 01:35:20.680
not the truth, because everything is so obscure. And that's also by design that it's so hidden and secretive because technology firms. They also don't want to be held liable for this work. And now it's it's becoming a media issue. And there's a lot of negative publicity workers. In the Us. Also filed a class action lawsuit where they did want some compensation from Facebook, like €1,000 worth of compensation or something.

457
01:35:20.890 --> 01:35:45.889
Yeah, Of course you're completely right that nothing is fully automated. But that's also sometimes the the. As I said before, that there's a general sort of like understanding that some things might get fully automated, or this discussion about what is going to happen in terms of future, of work, and more and more, we see that instead of really like sort of like removal of jobs, there's growing sort of asymmetry.

458
01:35:45.890 --> 01:36:01.769
And these polls of a lot of low paid services, of just maintaining technology, and just like very few services of really designing those technologies. But at the same time I have to say that certain things have been automated.

459
01:36:01.770 --> 01:36:25.959
By complete automation I meant certain processes, certain cues that I was talking about. Child abuse used to still be moderated by workers right? But that has been completely automated. Certain pornography content has been automated. That's not just in terms of how the machine is capturing the tasks of the workers. But child abuse, for example, became a huge issue across the world. It still is, and it should be

460
01:36:26.010 --> 01:36:51.000
where different civil society organizations started tagging the different images. And there's a whole. I think Microsoft Photo, DNA Repository, where everything was hashed and coded. And then it's used by all these technology firms. So this has become fully automated to the benefit of the workers, of course. So there is some things happening. But then something like hate speech which is more complex. What is hate? Speech like how difficult it is to define

461
01:36:51.000 --> 01:37:14.300
racism, something like racism, right? Like Facebook says that this is racist. But then there were activists in South Africa who said, You don't know what race is in this historical context, right? So don't tell us what racism is. Right? So there's there's always constant conflict happening because these things are complicated. And now, if you see that people are using content generated by Chat Gpt.

462
01:37:14.390 --> 01:37:33.970
that creates further complexity to these platforms. So of course, we know that workers will still be required, and there will be reliance on workers. It's just a question of in which conditions do they work? How will they work the suppliers who are getting limited functions because these firms are getting so powerful with their software? What is going to happen?

463
01:37:33.970 --> 01:37:58.879
yeah, I think you're again, the first question that alluded to the the conditions I I look at working conditions I look at, of course, also the agency and resistance. I see 3 forms of agency which I categorize as resilience, reskilling and rewalking in my work, that there is a temporality, how it also develops, you know, when there's resilience and it's increasing, there's a lot of deskaling happening. There's a lot of standard

464
01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:03.480
in this work. There's hardly any sort of explicit resistance.

465
01:38:03.480 --> 01:38:27.449
just in terms of, you know, breaking their nondisclosure agreements, talking to people like me or leaving their work. But there's no collective bargaining, and that's also sort of speaks to the general culture of the It sector in India. that there hardly any unions in the it sector. Something is developing, but there's no bargaining. It hasn't really resulted in any kind of bargaining, for that matter.

466
01:38:27.450 --> 01:38:37.050
So yeah, please read my work. If you look me up. I've talked a lot about this in terms of the confidentiality it was so difficult.

467
01:38:37.270 --> 01:38:50.329
I used Linkedin, for example, and other professional networking sites. I I searched for just like certain identifiable terms, right content, moderation. Now the thing is content. Moderation is not a business terminology.

468
01:38:50.330 --> 01:39:13.520
They are called prospects, executives, which is like everybody who is in low paid it services is called process executive or process associate. And so with nobody really know. So I've done different kinds of things. So I just thousands and thousands of people. I just sent request. went to companies. I camped outside companies, you know, until they kicked me out. I just I don't want to romanticize it. But

469
01:39:13.520 --> 01:39:41.290
no, I mean, it's a difficult process. But at the same time In the second field work. I I used remuneration mechanism. So I paid people for their time. it was, it became an attractive sort of like thing that people would somehow break the non disclosure agreement. Of course there's the whole ethics around it, and you have to explain why you use it. But yeah, it was extremely difficult. The participant observation I did was I went inside companies

470
01:39:41.290 --> 01:40:11.270
as a, as a moderator, as a potential moderator. So just to sit and observe the recruitment process, which was extremely useful. Again, this followed all the protocols of ethics, etc. in terms of the harm of it. Who is it harming, etc., implications of it. But yeah, it's extremely difficult. it takes a lot of trust building, and especially when you use digital tools during COVID-19. it, that trust building becomes even more sort of complicated. But again, you can read the stuff I've written. Yeah, thanks.

471
01:40:14.720 --> 01:40:17.450
Thank you. We have time for one last question.

472
01:40:19.680 --> 01:40:23.740
For sure. I think, as a vice president of the

473
01:40:24.510 --> 01:40:41.409
Hi. Thank you. I have a quite short question about this content, moderators. because I can imagine, like the doing it for like 8 h a day, 5 days a week. It's home for for your mental health.

474
01:40:41.410 --> 01:41:06.689
And What do you know how long people stay in these jobs and what they all like? The repercussions of working like mental health for forecast? And so of these people who work in. I I guess they do not choose this job like, Oh, yeah, my dream job is to be content, moderate, or about like some harmful effects of being a

475
01:41:10.230 --> 01:41:34.639
yeah, very just shortly. It's a stop gap arrangement, but it's also like other it services, you know, like India is known for providing low-paid services to the world. But now, increasingly also, migrant workers in Europe are such an important logic for this platform economy simply in terms of the access to this to this services. So in Germany, for example, it was more as As a

476
01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:58.169
trying to find other jobs and see what's going to happen? You don't. Why, the languages and other skill sort of things, the immigration in India it was more in terms of a lot of people had the motivation to get into digital marketing, you know. So when they apply for this job, they have very limited information. Sometimes it's written Facebook process, sometimes not. They never tell. And that's that's also very interesting. And I think Marxists have discussed this.

477
01:41:58.170 --> 01:42:22.640
What is a contract? What is an employment contract? What is a mutual agreement? How much are you knowing when you sign the contract, and how much is your surplus labor extracted in that process? Yeah, it's it's pretty bad mentally, but I think it's also there is an interesting culture, professionalism, culture that is again coming from the whole sort of organizational aspect that in India there was a strong

478
01:42:22.640 --> 01:42:47.639
professional culture that you have to behave in a certain way. This is just a job. Again. You have all sorts of control mechanisms, you know, where workers are trained during the training process. Hey, you're protecting the Internet. They were even calling themselves the guardians of the Internet and stuff. But again, there is also a limit to that, because when you keep working in that sector for one and a half years or one year, you realize this is shit, there is no guardian of the

479
01:42:47.639 --> 01:43:12.619
right But the general, your question about how long this stays. So the attrition rate is, The average attrition is generally one and a half years to 2 years maximum. But again, you have to see this in the context of the unemployment in the country, and it's increasing unemployment, especially after COVID-19. The rate is just increasing. So it would be interesting to see how many people have stayed, and what kind of similar services they get

480
01:43:12.620 --> 01:43:21.889
stuck in. Most of the people who left. They were doing other call center services or low-paid services. A little bit increase of money. But it is not like they are really jumping into like

481
01:43:21.889 --> 01:43:26.840
technology development and stuff. because there is no skill development.

482
01:43:28.299 --> 01:43:36.049
All right. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, we're out of time. Please stay because we have a final word from from our President in a minute. But

483
01:43:36.160 --> 01:43:39.830
to begin to thank you very, very much. Let's give a one last present this.

484
01:43:47.250 --> 01:44:04.350
and since this is our last session of the of the track, I wanted to brig, if unfortunately couldn't make it. I can't see him online, at least. So in the name of Regga and myself, we're very happy to to the track chance and to organize.

485
01:44:08.620 --> 01:44:33.540
Thank you. I was just the all, the all the work. I was just helping out. But thank you very much. Well, I wanted to thank to all of the presenters and the audience for the engaging discussions like we had today, I think it's really fantastic host organizers the volunteers, and the support, and the keynote speakers, and so on. If we've all you coming, it wouldn't be what it is. So thank you very much for everybody and everything. And David, you wanna

486
01:44:37.730 --> 01:44:52.100
and I don't know if I if you want to see what President Vice President. Well, I I will be very fast. I will just bring my own response to this question, do we need a sociology of the digital by? But being very, very pragmatic.

487
01:44:52.120 --> 01:45:01.079
and we started barely 2 years ago with this research, with this, with this systematic group. before making our first session, we already had more than 130 members.

488
01:45:01.129 --> 01:45:13.539
that is already speaking, by the need of having a a sociology of sociology, of the digital or a digital sociology. All the sessions that we had in this room. They have been constantly packed. They have been constantly people standing at the end.

489
01:45:13.610 --> 01:45:26.919
little places to see it, and so on, which makes a great difference with with many other rooms that we have seen apart, that they are much bigger, of course. but we have had, in my opinion, and and I think we can be very proud of that. We had a great success.

490
01:45:27.230 --> 01:45:45.710
many people coming, many interesting speeches, many interesting presentations, super interesting debates, super engaging both participants, questions. even the people who are participating online. I think it has been a great success. We have been invited by Isa to turn to be a working group in the near future.

491
01:45:45.920 --> 01:45:47.200
So hopefully

492
01:45:49.230 --> 01:45:56.860
in the next forum of sociology, we will already be a working group, and if everything goes fine on the Next World Conference. We would be already a research committee

493
01:45:57.110 --> 01:46:05.710
which would be a really great success, probably one of the fastest ever growing research committees since the foundation till the moment we reach this point.

494
01:46:05.780 --> 01:46:14.889
And it has been great guys. I mean, I think you did a great job. I think thanks, as you said, I mean, I will not repeat all the things, but there have been many people involved in making that possible.

495
01:46:14.950 --> 01:46:23.520
and many people will continue being involved. So please, if you have a non that join the group, join the debate, follow us. I know.

496
01:46:23.730 --> 01:46:40.699
Yep, I am, and maybe you want to explain that, shall I hand you the phone? Yeah. So there are more activities that we are going to do, not only on the conferences, but also activities in the middle. So please, sister, yes, we are going to have the second work in progress in December.

497
01:46:40.820 --> 01:46:55.530
and I was just. I would be happy to hear from you. How can we encourage especially Phd. Students to participate in this event? Because it's an opportunity to write to submit a draft

498
01:46:55.570 --> 01:47:08.409
of paper, and have at least one or 2 scholars reviewing it and discussing how to improve it in order to publish it. So I tried to send emails

499
01:47:08.450 --> 01:47:13.279
to also theological associations in the world. It was a huge

500
01:47:13.290 --> 01:47:16.219
effort. I'm not sure it's effective

501
01:47:16.760 --> 01:47:28.420
mit Ctl, and so please let us know what I'll your ideas about that. And we will send, of course, all the information about it. I know that the dates it's 150,

502
01:47:28.470 --> 01:47:35.970
14 and fifteenth of December. and it can, it will be in person, and it will be hybrid.

503
01:47:37.340 --> 01:47:45.369
Have in in Belgrade half online. So feel free to engage on that. And if you want to follow us with all these things

504
01:47:45.860 --> 01:48:10.089
for our Twitter account join join our group. I think it's $10 $20 4 years, I mean a beer here in the bar, and costs more than joining our group. So I think, of course, I would prioritize the beer, but after the beer, please join our group and and it's gonna be fun. It has been fun. It's gonna be interesting. So, please you, we are super open for where whoever wants to join us. Thank you so much.