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So good morning. Everybody. Thank you for coming here this morning, because I think there's just so many distractions and so many excuses here not to sort of, you know. Wake up early and come here today. So I appreciate your devotion to this very important course, which is the energy transition?

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Sure. So I'm yeah. I'm just gonna jump straight into this. But my name is Gregory, and I'm I'm Australian. But I'm working in Kyoto, to university. And I'm gonna present to you research. That's I'm looking at what we call the oil majors. So these are major oil and gas firms, and in the sample that I'm looking at, we have 2 a European companies, which is Bp and shell, and 2 from the United States, which is chevron and excel mobile and this is like a follow on paper from my previous research. And I'm just going to give you a few, you know, highlights of this particular study.

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So right now, you've probably been hearing a lot about. You know the world like carbon neutral carbon neutrality net 0 things like this. And the world is sort of, you know. being expected to pursue or achieve this target by around mid-century and

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we have The oil majors, which have a very, very sort of strong influence on the speed of which the world can move towards this net 0 energy system. And we have these 4 companies here, and their energy products have been shown to have contributed to over 10% of global emissions. And they have a very strong influence, you know, like, on the you know, climate policy and our innovation. And so that's why a lot of researchers and policymakers and stakeholders are looking at their activities.

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However, unfortunately, these oil majors have also sort of been maybe channelling their resources in the wrong direction for our many years.

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basically denying climate change and trying to obstruct action. towards, you know, solving this problem. And there's many, many studies you can look at on this particular topic. However, over the last couple of years they've started moving towards this discourse on being part of the solution. And you'll see oil companies now, using the words such as net 0 and energy transition. You'll even see a company that's renowned for its resistance to climate action, such as exo mobile.

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I'm arguing that it's now part of the you know, the solution towards moving towards net energy. I'm sorry towards net 0.

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And so on in this research, I focus on the 4 largest vester owned oil and gas companies. And I'm I'm basically looking at their net 0 strategies and trying to to determine if a energy transition is occurring or not. And to achieve this, I conduct an analysis from 2 perspectives and the first perspective is basically to look at the differences in the similarities regarding their decarbonization objectives.

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And then I focus especially on their ambitions to wind down the production and the sale of oil and gas and I distinguish between the production and the sale for A few reasons that I'll explain a little bit later on.

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And then I focus especially in this paper on offsets and I guess many of you have been hearing about. You know, carbon credits. That's another word for offsets and offsets and net 0 are kind of very complement, very complementary concepts. The idea is that with offsetting?

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if you're trying to achieve net 0, you, you try and reduce in-house emissions as much as possible for those so-called residual or hard to abate areas. You sort of have authority to move outside that sort of value, chain and purchase the efforts of other people to cut their carbon emissions and purchase those efforts in the form of carbon credits, and then you apply it to your own accounting ledger. So I look very much in detail at offsets. So

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this is just, you know, highlights I'm giving you today. and I'm just gonna take you through a few of those. So there has been you know, quite a lot of research actually on oil majors. And we've got a study in there. And with, you know, researchers are trying to sort of, you know, make sense of, you know, the different performance of these carbon intensive private actors. So, for example, you know some people are saying, do they have any net? 0 targets?

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And other people are saying, well, let's let's look at their actual emissions performance. You know, I'm looking at any changes in their yeah, annual behavior. And other people looking at their their adoption of renewable energy, or even their mentioning or their emphasis on renewable energy.

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And And then other people are looking more. You know that hard bottom line, which is the fossil fuel, production and exploration. So these are all very, very important indicators. And if we're trying to sort of, you know, make sense of you know. Are they actually moving towards a clean energy transition? I would argue that this bottom bullet point here, that you know the annual fossil fuel production that this particular action is extremely important.

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because in many cases renewable energy is just like an addition to the core business. The core business is fixed on fossil fuels. And the renewable energy is just something that added on top. So we really want to see if there's a fundamental business business model transformation occurring. So we look at this, we look at this qualitatively. By the way.

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and let's continue sorry. okay, so just to put this like a little picture here. Sort of describe how I look at this situation. The current situation, as I explained before, these oil majors have a very large business. focused on oil and gas extraction.

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And we have, you know, especially the European majors. Bp, and shel, there's a lot of talk about, you know. We probably see You know lots of information about them making investments in renewable energy and clean energy. And this is a side business. We have to be serious. If we look at the scale of the Kpx, which is our capital expenditures, we see that by far the black stuff is on dwarfing expenditures on the green stuff.

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But we have 2 pathways to get to net 0. in the sort of I guess the pathway that many transition researchers like myself, are sort of expecting. We expect to see a planned down scaling of the core business, which is fossil fuels, and we expect to see at the same time a very rapid expansion to fuel, the void of renewable energy, and that would be a decarbonization by transitioning or by transformation. Now there's another pathway.

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and that pathway is Maybe you could call this a shortcut to net 0. But basically the idea is that you preserve the core business model. And you look at, sorry, I just lost my

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sorry. Just come back here.

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Yeah, there's a bit of driving my driving skills. If I yeah, here we go. Okay? So in this, in this. But yeah, I'm sorry. I'm just touching the mouse. I shouldn't do that. But basically, in this bottom diagram. Here we have the option of using our carbon offsets and also and just pursuing emissions reduction through, you know, small incremental technological improvement. So this is really, as you can see, not about an energy transition.

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So there are 2 particular models, and we try and sort of diagnose with a very simple litmus test which pathway these majors on. And then we look in detail at the offsetting.

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Okay, so quickly. What? what is offsetting? So basically, please, a crash course here, please pay very strong attention to the distinction between avoided emissions and removed emissions. If you plant a forest and the trees grow.

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Oh, no, yeah. If you plant a forest and the trees grow, then you could count that as a missions removal, and I'd be embarrassed to see here that my slides. There's a mistake here. These colors should be in reverse emissions with emissions. Removal would best be placed above this foresty. I'm embarrassed to see this and So just to repeat myself. So if you plant trees in these trees grow, you're pulling down carbon carbon from the atmosphere. You consider that as

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emissions removal, and this is generally considered as higher quality than emissions. avoidance, which would come from protecting a standing forest so red reduced emissions from forest degradation.

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so red projects and also renewable energy projects. Renewable energy projects a windmill. For example, if you you know, build a wind farm in China. That doesn't remove Co. 2 from the atmosphere that basically avoids the use of a coal fired power plant in theory, which would then contribute to the reduction of emissions in the world. So that's avoided emissions. And that's very, very different to directly, physically capturing emissions. And in an offset situation.

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You have a polluting company that pays money to purchase credits from these different types of projects that then brings that into their business operation and claims to have reduced their own emissions.

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So There's a big discourse right now that quality. So just to repeat myself. it's generally expected that a quality offset is one that removes the mission physically removes from the atmosphere. And right now, today, the only thing that does that is basically is planting trees. So a forestation and is experiments with soil capture as well. And then we would like to see this like money being directed to recently implement

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recently recently implemented activity. So you know old projects that have at least zombie credits from many, many years ago. That is sort of not contributing to contemporary actions today to drive down emissions.

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So we have a very simple qualitative framework. And we just ask ourselves, you know, 3 questions. And the first question, is about the scope of emissions. So all 4 of these oil majors, they talk about net 0,

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and they're all aiming for net 0 by 2,050. But we ask, what's the scope of that? And we have what's called scope 1, 2, and 3 scope 3 is the big one scope 3 talks about the emissions that occur when you burn that fossil fuel during end use. So, for example, when people are driving a vehicle, and they're burning the gasoline in the engine. The oil company is expected now to take responsibility for that.

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and that's called Scope 3, and if you exclude that you'd be excluding about 85% of life cycle emissions. That's a very, very important question to consider. The next thing is, other companies looking at reducing the supply of fossil fuels, including production and sales. I'm going to get on to the reason for that in the in the findings now. So if they're serious about you know, reducing their emissions, then we wouldn't expect to see a strong reliance on offsets. Thank you. So that's just very quickly. This is rooted in in literature.

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Now, we're just going to quickly explain the data sources. Very briefly. They come from you know the company documentation and from third-party materials. And that's like the qualitative part.

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the quantitative parties. we actually went out and got records of offset retirements from the from the voluntary carbon market. And we have these things called registries. That's the thing in bullet points here. The Vcs. The gold standard and and the United Nations clean development mechanism. These are databases. They basically say, Company X on, you know, March 1, 90 2,021, you were tied 100 tons of carbon offsets. You have a record of that. And we basically collect all those records.

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And we make a database, and we organize this database by the oil company, by the offset project and by the number of retirements. And this analysis, this database drives the the offsetting analysis. And we made that publicly available. And it's just to give you a preview what the database looks like. We have an offset project here, for example, on the left is from shell claims to use this. That's on the registries, Vera. And we I just, you know, code this. And I tell you that

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it's aforestation, for example, and then at the credit level one, we have more. We have The actual number of tons of carbon that was removed via this project. So on. As far as I'm concerned, this credit level data is higher quality.

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Because this gives you project level information and credit level information. Unfortunately, this doesn't exist for for there's many data gaps, because Bp especially doesn't disclose a lot of their transactions with transparency.

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So let's quickly go into the results. This is just a little preview here, and this is one of the The tables that appear in the paper, and I was very surprised. But I guess frustrated. You could say that already. This is out of date, and I'll explain why in a minute.

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So basically, my research is looking at, you know, real time company actions. It's very hard to sort of stay abreast of that with the Peer review. And you know the snail piece of academic research so very quickly. net 0, scope, 3 emissions. This is your end-use combustion. Bp, and shell include this we can see that they're more serious about, you know, reducing their emissions. The American majors are not when it comes to the supply of fossil fuels. no, major is

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is trying to reduce the supply of fossil, the supply of fossil fuels from a sales perspective. That means basically that they can purchase oil from other companies and sell that under their brand, and they're not obliged to reduce that supply. That's because they're only fixing a few supply production targets chevron. The American Majors again, haven't fixed any targets. Now, what there's already there's a thing that's out of date here. What happened is shell has actually retracted this target. They had a target to reduce their emissions

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by about one to 2% per year, which is in this bullet point. And a lot of, you know, spectators and stakeholders are like, you know, this is fantastic. You know, shell has actually got an explicit plan to reduce their emissions up actually, this year because of the huge profits because of the Russian invasion. They've actually they've

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abandoned this target. And the same things happen to be Bp, they had a plan to reduce their oil and gas production by 40%. They weaken that to 40 to 25%. And all of these admit any ambitions to reduce sales. And then, as I said before, chevron and excellent, don't have any plans at all to reduce. They're trying to expand the oil and gas production, and very explicitly they they, they, they, they state them so. I don't have time to explain this diagram. So let's skip that

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offsetting. That's I don't have much time to explain this, but this is the the bulk of my research, and this about 3 areas where we see offsetting its activity occurring. And basically, the main one is these things. These are liquid natural gas tanker. And these tankers are coming, you know, from the production areas like, you know Western Australia from you know, I guess Saudi Arabia, different countries around the world, and all companies with 3 of them

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with the black square here claim that this is carbon neutral, and this is regular natural gas.

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and they claim that this is carbon neutral by buying the equivalent amount of carbon offsets and then and then bundling it together with this. So my research, I especially look at this particular area. But we also we see offsets used for this gasoline sales and for airlines

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and So, looking at the projects here, and if you might remember just a moment ago this discussion about avoidance versus removal. We see for 2 of these companies for Bp and chevron. We see a very, very strong preference for avoidance credits here and then. And the avoidance credits in red technology base that's coming from renewable energy

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and the ones in green are coming from red plus projects. So basically, these are projects that don't remove any carbon from the atmosphere. They just claim to have avoided these emissions. We see shell that has a bit more activity in removal. Now, this project, this data that you see in this graph is quite low quality, because this is just telling us that these majors claim to use these projects, and I, just every time I saw a claim that they use these projects, I coded this.

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But what are we really interested in is, what did they actually retire?

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And this is the credit data. And this comes from the carbon regist, from the offset registries, and we see here a much stronger preference here for avoidance. We see Bp obtains 100% of its credits from avoidance. And this is renewable energy and or and red plus projects semi chevron and shell, about 85. And why is this? Why they choosing avoidance, which is lower quality. The main reason is because they're cheaper.

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yeah, they. They're much cheaper. They're about we can probably estimate, you know, 4, 5, 6 $7 us per ton. It's extremely cheap and the removal credit, which is many. Tree planting will be double. The price so cost costs drives this behavior. Now. The other additional concern is that many of these credits are actually old.

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Yep, time's up. So I'll just give you maybe maybe 30 more seconds if that's okay. So shell here has purchased a very large quality of quantity of credits that are aged more than a decade ago.

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Now.

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some people might call these, you know, zombie credits. They basically credits that you could sort of question

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by purchasing a mission

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reductions from a long time ago, and then claiming that you've offset your missions today. Is that a legitimate practice? This is an area that I think we could have a very long discussion about. So this is just a practice that's very explicit in shells, offsetting behavior. So let's quickly jump to the conclusion. The question at the outset was, Are these majors really transitioning? I had 3 qualitative qualitative indicators, and my evidence says that no arm major is satisfying these indicators. Therefore.

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we especially. See, there's a lack of plans to reduce the The sale of fossil fuels, and also the production.

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Plans to reduce production of fossil fuels has also been weakened, and so, therefore no major has a plan in place to reduce its overall supply of fossil fuel to the market, therefore, and transition is not occurring.

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and The offsetting, as I said before, with these graphs is that, you know, projects are not removing carbon from the atmosphere, and additionally, many projects and credits are aged.

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and that it really linked to contemporary mission reduction efforts. So these claims about net 0 and carbon neutral could be contested. I'm just going to skip on some details here. And this study here is the top study is published last year, and that's This is a follow up study that I've just presented now, and the paper at the bottom here that was just published in climatic change, it's available online now. so if you're interested, you could take a look at that.

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Thanks very much.

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Well.

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she took a lot of our budget presentation budget. Let me now go today. My presentation.

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 so good on. Okay.

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I will share with you some highlights of a project

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I have been part of

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which is the la 100 Equity Strategies Project.

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and

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the goal of this project, which started in 2 years ago and is just now finishing.

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is to inform strategies that that ensure that Los Angeles and Los Angeles transition to 100% clean energy, while at the same time improving energy, equity. And we are, I mean, interestingly, the city does want to really avoid producing 150

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a

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emissions right? A. In in our work. I mean, there are many definitions of energy transitions. But in our work we decided to define them as a deep societal change in the energy system of the city that fulfills at the minimum. 3 of the tenants. There are many of justice, recognition, procedural and distributional justice. And this is the way we present this a tenets. Just.

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I want you to remember that we are using them as conceptual tools, but also as decision-making tools

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as as the former. They are aim at understanding how and why inequities exist. When we are considering the the ladder we are talking about efforts in this case strategies action to reduce to address these inequities.

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this is the process we we engage in to develop this project. This has been an amazing, challenging, difficult project.

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Where community engagement at the top A is the one that guides, understanding of the problems and the solutions. We have a steering committee with 15 Cbos working on the ground with disadvantage touch at Angelinos we are talking about 59% of the population. La also concentrates. Sorry. I don't know why this went like that, but let me bring it back. And

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La also concentrates a 30% of the poor in California. We also had an advisory committee of city officials who tell us whether what we are suggesting is feasible, and we. We have a bunch of engineers and

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3 social scientists informing everything and going back and forth and trying to create a feedback loop.

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Our goal. And I would refer mostly to the work we did as social scientists was to examine community identified problems and solutions.

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to seek to operationalize recognition and procedural justice, and by so doing to inform distributional justice and to develop options and step was

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for energy, equity, strategy, development. These are the areas we work on. You see them in the map. And this is our overarching analytic approach. What is beautiful about this effort is that we try to connect the problem space which you see to your left.

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where we we we deep into the data to understand the legacies of systemic practices and policies such as those related to red Lining or in other cities to informality

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that result in factors influencing the current energy inequities in the city.

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And then in the second chapter, we we we work with. Angelinos, to understand how this translates into coastal factors that affect access to energy services.

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access to affordable housing, which is key to have good. And Energy uses, etc., etc. On the right side of this figure you see the political context, the solution space where we're trying to bring all our findings to the development of a several strategies that we discussed today in the morning with the city officials.

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Just some highlights. A. This is part of what we did to understand. How, how, if, and how Angelina's benefit from access to a set of investment and investments and programs, and 150

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of La Dwp, which is the department of water and power of the city. They had pro solar installation programs, energy efficiency programs, electric vehicle programs, customer discounts.

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And we found, or with a surprise that mostly a wealthy, non disadvantaged communities benefit from those programs. Only 2 programs benefit the poor.

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and not so much because we found also with some numbers I cannot share with you, because that would take me 2 days, and I only have 10 min or 15 a. Again we we were able to show how

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low income communities of color are the ones who have not benefited. From this.

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however, targeting distributional justice is not enough

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to understand why and how the inequities I try to capture in that slide are recreated. We need to also operationalize recognition and procedural justice.

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So what we did to do that was to combine statistical, statistical analysis of many things, access to jobs, access to education, access to affordable housing.

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etc., a huge literature review, so huge that I'm tired of even thinking about energy, justice in whatever flavor you can you want to refer to. We also use

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qualitative social science methods so just focus groups that the community asked us to not call focus groups because they found that was very instructive. They want. They don't want to be observed.

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And we use techniques, qualitative coding. Using Max, Qed, Q&A, which is a very nice, a software.

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We also analyze

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57, a programs from

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52 utilities. I didn't. they did on that. Okay, let me now move to the key findings. I really would like to have more time to really dig into this. But the first key finding and this is a a quote from a community member. But this is this, this achieved saturation levels. That's why we are using it right. It was a recurring sentiment. This this person tells us.

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the very definition of equity which we spent a lot of time talking about, and even now those of us who have been disadvantaged are sometimes uncomfortable with

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means. It's not about how much

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it means that we've all made a commitment that until we, we, the answer, serve the forgotten right. Catch up. Nobody else gets anything.

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so more and more of it becomes ours because we have been inequitably tweeted.

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But what we want to know is, how is it proceeding. So this person is saying.

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we have not been recognized, and we want to be part of the decision making process. I mean, I I could elaborate on that. But I don't have time. Let me just summarize key highlights from our analysis of recognition, justice, or a of how recognition justice is not part of what is happening in La. It's more of a dream

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a.

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Besides the funding which I shared with you before, we also found that underserved communities face, higher energy housing and transportation burdens.

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Many of them told us. I mean, you want us to get all your new goodies. We are barely able to make ends meet to pay for the rain. We need to make trade offs. So how is it that how there you are asking us to know, adopt new technologies. Just a hit Pam costs between 7 and 12,000 Us. Dollars. So someone here tells me if they can afford to pay that in one seat. I cannot.

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These inequities are the result of historical legacies, and we documented, for instance, the importance and the significance of redlining

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for transportation, for for for communities that suffer the impacts of transportation corridors on their health and quality of life and the impacts of heat waves on their health and quality of life.

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So, but they are also the result of a history of this investment and neglect in the areas where they live.

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And these inequities are evidence which we quantified in in our chapter are evidence in the experiences of underserved Angelinos. Many participants in the listening sessions reported

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poor quality and maintenance of housing, and infrastructure and housing.

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For instance, we say, Oh, we need roof. Top roof, solar! Guess what? The roofs are very old. They cannot withstand anything, let alone. Solar. Oh, we need a charging.

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They don't have the partners, etc. So, and there are barriers to making energy decisions for themselves. You are being unfair, because you are not giving me enough time, but I will be prepared to you, and I will take it because I care for the others. Okay, They. They have access to financial capital, and they mistrust the government.

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Also we found that Angelinos faced challenges to self determine their energy future. They don't have good, well-paid jobs. They have barriers, they face barriers to program participation and support.

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and they face huge energy, affordability and burdens which are related to issues of lack of parity and access to those programs and to those investments.

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So what we did with all this data was to develop a

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12 equity strategies, some of which are City Y foundational. They are like the backbones to to build a future, and they imply they include improving city regulations, accountability and enforcement.

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There are also led Wp. Foundational strategies. One of those is Goby, John Joseph's ad hoc. Efforts to convince communities that they need to accept your projects create a collaborated platform that allows you to co-develop programs programs and evaluation efforts. And then we had this 3 sets of equity strategies.

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The first one a aim at giving communities voice, allowing them to get involved in the process and giving them the resources to be resilient. Then we have the need to target investments and programs in these areas and not in the West, in Hollywood, where everything is beautiful.

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And then also, we are suggesting tailored training for these communities to benefit from the transition and support for them, to be able to pay their

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electricity bills. There are gas bills and to deal with issues of debt.

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And then in closing. And we also showed that this utility is not the only one that doesn't know how to engage with communities, because that's what they? They don't do that. They do. Optimization of, you know, investments, etc. Many utilities in the Us. Of the ones we analyze. do not do not engage, or if they do, they consult the inform, but they don't involve.

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And okay. And with this I close. These are some of the communities we work with

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A, and you think I mean a couple of comments

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we always talk about. Why, what are the big players doing? But there are many smaller players at the city and local level that are doing a lot, and that need our work together with what others are doing here at the global level to understand what we need to do, how we can engage communities to be part of the solution and not only of the problem. So thank you very much.

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Our first speakers arrived, so I mean.

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jump into the flow of

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we

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 or the return to session display. It should give you

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what we're here.

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Yep.

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sorry for 2 min late. And now I can present

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Job.

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So Today, I'm going to present

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to them, growing to present on the implications of sustainable livelihood framework for just transition policies and practice, an empirical study from northeastern goldfields of India.

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So scientific evidence is so that human activities, like over convention of natural resources, ecological degradation and pollution, has laid humanity to one of its most pressing challenges, that is, climate change already to previous speakers, has discussed in a very greater detail. So to deal with these crisis, the countries

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need to transition, they told to transit from fossil fuels to some alternative and renewable energies.

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and in the process of pinging down these fossil fuels the dependent workforce and the non-worker dependent communities face an uncertain future with imperial social and economic security.

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And For a coal-dependent country like India

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coal mine closure presents a greater challenge due to some pre-existing social economic inequalities

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that presently also exists.

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and against this backdrop

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my to this presentation will explode the aftermath of a mind closure in northeastern goldfields of Assam, a state in the northeastern part of India.

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It will present the case of Margaret A. Coldfield.

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Where mind closure left the dependent community without any alternative occupation for almost 2 years.

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and because the idea of systematic mind closure is competitively new in case of India, because the first layout was done in a village in 2,019, and then it has been update in 2,013.

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but later the Ministry of Coal Government of India is fertilizing a strong framework for the closure of minds that emphasizes 3 key key areas of institutional governance, that is, the workers and the indirectly dependent communities. Environmental reclamation and land reposing

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in accordance with the just transition principles. Obviously, thus, it has become clear that implemented issues cannot be reserved in a vacuum, leaving other issues like social and economic issues and a nations. It has already established that a nation's environmental aspiration can frequently scale back when it's economics week, when the social challenges are at place.

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So here we are introducing the principles of sustainable development that takes care of social environment and economical issues.

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And Here we have placed these sustainable livelihood approach for just transition, because it tells that we can harness the opportunity for the present donation without ampering the future generations.

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Opportunities. So, according to Purvis at all, and 2,019, the sustainable livelihood. That post must be pupil centric. There must be a macromy to link, and it must be built on the streams of the stakeholders and the sector with dynamic and holistic approach to exit the sustainable mind closure apartment approach in this context. In the present time we will discuss the about the mind closure.

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So this is basically the study area.

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And in this Pradl study, the Margaret, a coal field first started in the nineteenth century, and it is considered as one of the oldest. Coal mining regions in India. It was started in the British period. British period! And there were presently 5.

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In in the time of our study there were 5 active mines before closure in 2,022. That is a tika, Tiya, Tipum, Lido, and Borgoline.

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the this Tipong and and and boroughly are underground mines, and this Tika and Theia is opencast, mind

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for this presence that you have taken purposes sampling for selection of the State. coal mines, and the districts, and the coal fields, and the district, and for the selection of the respondent we mainly taken the approach of snowball sampling.

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and then we have interviewed, and we had We have interviewed. and we had 27 focus group discussions with both the dependent, that is, the workers and the independent. That is the non worker, local residence, and we have recorded these responses for transcription and coding.

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So in that case.

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but in this context. exactly why the coal mine closed in. Myigrator, let me deliver

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story if I can, because the largest rainforest in India is being but kind also refer to as the Amazon of these that falls under these. Area of this coal mine, migrator goldfield.

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the name Gehimpatkai is derived from 2 wards, actually the Riva Dane, which runs through the rainforest, and the Pakkai heels. This rain for rest has become the site of this fight between one live protection and the coal mine. component!

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Because this day in Butkai has told to have elephant reserve, and contains 2 tiny elephant corridors, and the contestation was particularly on the violation of the Forest Clearance Act of 19 And in 1980, and the Wildlife Protection Act on 1972.

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According to Forrest, Conversion Act on 1,980. This northeastern coal is demonstrate of Margalita was required to obtain a clearance

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from the consent, authority from the Forest Department before the lease expired in 2,003, but it chose not to do so. And this is actually the initiation of this conflict in that coal field. After 17 years the National Board of Wildlife Standing committee has recommended that initials operations

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need approval, and in that case the trade unions also indicated that coal mine failed to opt in the forest clearance, and also there was operance of rampant, informal, and illegal mining also.

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but interestingly, local student like Unions. No few local people told us that they do not know the exact reason that why the coal mines closed.

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but few

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go to the village head of the local tribal communities. They told us that they never heard of any elephant in this region.

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So from where the question of elephant corridor counts.

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But in that case the media persons and the Csos stressed the points like coal mine interactions in elephant corridor and biodiversity Lord at loss. And there were a huge number of online protests for protest also. And it goes sometimes international with hashtags like saved in Pakistan wildlife saved in. But, Guy, I'm ding, but it doesn't trained at that time of

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at the time. But finally, when at the end we interviewed a Forrest officer who was in charge.

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he told us that first, obviously any cl lost is forest clearance.

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But second, he told a very interesting fact that his arrival was spread, that mining had been started in this day in particular wildlife sanctuary, but in reality the mining had been done in the Pakka Heels region, which is not the part of the sanctuary. So there are some kind of dumors and problems. And then media participation and Ceos of attitudes and make these more

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critical. And the coal mining has been stopped.

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and local and local environmental activities also claim that coal mining has been taking place in the area of for a very long time, despite the lack of formal clearance and renewals

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and illegal coal mining obviously, was a problem in that context. So, but later the wide National Board for wildlife, based on the report Of a governor appointed a community to investigate these, and they produce a report, and latter the National Board for Wildlife. Based on this report. They

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told for resumption of the coal mining operations and based on the with 20 43 core! Rupees! Fines! But outrest these reopening again. Contestation again. A protest organized in this situation, and then coal mine gets stopped.

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But after, during the period of closure, the local people and the workers suffered a loss.

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a lot. The local community, local trading, community, tribal community they are. They have to see from and other states another district. To have some kind of livelihoods, and because, since the coal mining has been started in this region, it has been a sole and

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only one source of library for the local people and coal mine closure resulted in substantial job loss, not only in coal mines but also in related local businesses and coalition throughout the coalition industries. The economic condition of the Margarita drastically deteriorated robbery, dacoity, and this kind of other criminal activities has increased in this region.

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In the interview the measure of the respondent cited that at least

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the of the responded faced loss of income followed by business decisions, job laws.

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and they try to see if they are lower income through sitting to agriculture. They even those who didn't have the garden they tried in kitchen garden, and they tried to

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has some. Job, in that case. But there was a huge migration from this map you can see that at least 10,000 people migrated to other Indian State in such a job.

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But one thing is a

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one thing. There was a good thing in that in the time of

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mind closure. That is the different when that is the Coal Mine Company. They try to keep some social welfare activities in place through provision of staff quarters, water supplies, road health facility. The doctor told us that they have conducted at least 100 camps during this closure period, and the local people whose children were reading Wearing a company school. Their education didn't interact it at this period of closure

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that, given some cushion to the

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a local community and the workers and make them to some resilient in this stress period.

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So based on these case of Margaret and trade union, also as a prominent role, they formed a joint action committee, and moved and fought for the betterment of the workers for their retaining their jobs or some alternative occupations and rehabilitation.

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So based on these

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in case of Margaret a coal mine of Assam. The system and livelihood framework that was first developed by Dfid can easily be fitted and provide an input for policymakers for sustainable mind closure in the process of just transition, where all the 5 social capitals that is a natural, financial, physical, human, and the financial capitals.

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we will be sustainable, checking any loss of community livelihood, biodiversity, local population, and the if in that case there was a tribal community dominance.

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So in that case trade unions can play a critical role by influencing the policies and processes. taking all the stakeholders along with them. and

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at the end, if the sustainable livelihood. Framework is followed properly in combine closures, sustainable livelihood, outcomes like to restored environment, provision of alternative occupations regained, business checked, migration and overall social religions can be achieved.

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And however this astronomy I do framework not only intervals the identification of the spaces where gas exist, but also highlights the potential links for policy implications

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at micro-matio and major levels and macro labels. And here we have presented some poems of entry, like in case of livelihood. That is like environment that is in my credible. The legal mining to your tenure can be considered environment forests that was critical in the case of Margarita and the environmental quality assessment in Meso level. There can be coal mine area within wildlife habitat Csr services.

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farming practices, maintenance of proposed reserve forest is in that case, if there are any problems, and it can also take care of the economic assets and the community assets. That is, the a number of coal company workers, number of coal-induced local residents in Meso level. They are kindly. The education and Health service can be at focus the educational facility, migration

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and then back to the migration and human development index can also be under consideration. So that is for today.

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And I have presented it. From our report I am currently composed of fellow at just transition research into Iati Kanpoo.

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And if you want to access this, you can scan this barcode, and you can have that.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, so good morning, everybody. It's really nice to see you all in in in the morning, despite the the time.

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And today I would like to present with you to to you a a work that is done by myself and Dr. Kuwaitzo Khan from from Taiwan to Academy a senika right now she she is working there.

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and when I was planning, and I mean to to to show you the work it, I was wondering whether, because it's a it's a part of my Phd visitation. And it's like it's it's final step

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I was thinking about whether to. It's better to show you the more empirical focus or my theoretical, but I decided to show you and to focus mainly on on the on the way we looked at the at the energy transition, and how it is imagined in Taiwan and in Prc.

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Through the thing that we call the reflexive public reason. And to we we started thinking about creating a sort of

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call it model of a way of looking at those things by trying to and to to answer the questions, how to understand choices made about the future pathways, especially technological, especially those related to energy transition, and with relation to knowledge which is and which is used, and how it is produced and justified, to.

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to, to to claim those to the choices. How do those things and societies, in terms of what thinking of the future are coping with uncertainties and risks. And is there a way to design more inclusive technologies across socio-political domains also? within one so and within national contexts? So at different level?

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And yeah, we we created something which is called capturing, invisible. And we are working there using this type of inquiries mainly on energy issues and also biotechnology so vaccines

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as well and in the European countries. But we want to like develop it further, and to just to give you a very short introduction to the reflexive public reason. How it is embedded. It's embedded on 2 main parts the public reason and understanding of Sts. And Professor Josano from from Harvard

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on socio technical imaginaries which are the collective, imagined futures related to technologies, civic epistemology. So basically, how societies or national components are expecting the knowledge to be produced

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tested and used in policy, making bio-constitutionalism, which is rather related more to the, to the, to the bio understanding of life and those changes of the life. Meaning of life is changing in in constituencies.

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and we thought that it would be really relevant to connect it with what Beck wrote on reflexive modernisations, so risks and manufactured uncertainty. So those which are the products of of our actions.

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Yeah, what we did in in Taiwan and China was basically interviews with scientists. We analyzed the newspaper articles from both regions and which we were having the the keyword energy transition, of course, and in in Chinese

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energy strategies and documents are relevant for the energy transition, and and this allowed us to to not only look for the uncertainties and risks, how they are perceived, and how they are framed, but also for the visions of the future

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and what we found in Taiwan. It's We have a lot of lot of data. So I'll just focus on on the most important things. We've detected 3 socio-technical imaginaries about the Taiwanese energy future, which which one is dominant versus 2 alternative ones.

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and the dominant one is which we call the green technology and modern future is is heavily focused on large-scale renewables, new future technologies that still has to be imagined to to deliver the future that we want.

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of course, hydrogen and efficiency, smart solutions. But what is the most interesting across them

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in terms of technologies and across the imaginary that we detected is its relation to nuclear power. So, as you know, the withdrawing of Taiwanese nuclear power plants

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which in the second and the first alternative nuclear

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imaginary. Let's let's call like this is is claimed as to be restored to going back to nuclear in order to preserve stability in order to to really deliver the goals that we want, and the third and the third imaginary, the alternative one which is postulating a community renewables as and small scale technology. So so we have the very much the differences across the technologies, across the imaginaries.

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It's relating to targets and go on a nuclear of 3 homeland versus

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returning to a nuclear and providing cheap energy for business and individuals. If we look at the governance

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level, it is still the same story. Let's say it's like this. So the the first dominant postulating a semi-centralized model with limited agency to businesses and local governments, the nuclear postulating centralized model. And at the the second, the alternative focusing on decentralized community oriented

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issues. It is also related to the visions how to imagine the role of government versus the role of the society.

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So government, and in those

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2 most important ones, so the dominant and the first alternative government has a very crucial world as is setting the path.

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engage with dialogue, but to the certain extent, but rather rather leading the role. And the the second alternative, one is really focus on on absolute decentralization of also in and in terms of actors that are

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involved. But then, when we looked at the civic epistemology, so the whole machinery behind the knowledge, production, and

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and how it is then used, produced, and used and justifying and in policy making, we can see that not only the dominant imaginary, has an influence on it. But those 2 alternative also, and we can, as you can see, these colors are still the same as in the previous slide.

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So in terms of of of certain actors that are providing knowledge, knowledge for a decision making, we can see, of course, in the dominant one, the political party. The vision between Dpp and Kmt in Taiwan and the State agencies versus the type power which is more related to the new, to the centralization rather and

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kind of engineering focus, and then

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returning to nuclear.

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And this all the because we don't have time to go into straight into all the details. But what I want to show you here is that the the the free imaginaries have a distinct impact on also the knowledge production. Of course, the dominant has the most significant one, and those alternative ones also are influencing the

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the knowledge production and its use in Taiwan.

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So so our analysis argues that Taiwanese energy transition is under profound influence of the dominant, as I've showed you, but we have a limited agency of 2 alternatives and and imaginaries here can provide a lens through which society perceives manufacturing uncertainties and translates them into risk by allowing into the knowledge, production

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the different imaginaries, different views, and sort of of the thinking and reflexivity in a way.

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But then we we can jump into a Chinese case, and what we were struggling and thinking of, and how to do this, we were thinking how to apply the model, which is certainly by by by previous works of of Sheila and and others, but rather the concept of of imaginaries were rather used in democratic

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environments, and we were thinking whether we can do this is whether it is applicable, and these are the things that we make us think that it is rather applicable and could be useful.

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using the terms of the mandate of hem and the mean, so that, like the the relations between the the State and the citizens in the Chinese way.

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The the significant role played by a contentious public sphere, which is, there is a great book by by Professor Yow and la! From from Carver sociology, and when she is like describing the whole mechanism between contentious public sphere and relations between public and

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and

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and state in China.

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and also the the typical to to, to very typical in relation to Chinese, a concept like fragmented authoritarianism, and and something which is new, like the Confucian public. Reason made us feel that. Yeah, we can look for the common ground that is binding and moving the decisions in China and try to look and and for it in the same

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way. So what we have in China. Still, yeah, I have to speed up.

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And

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yeah, we have the

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the vision of the future, which is focused, of course, on on rather, I would say, on stability, towards batteries and energy storage, efficiency.

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nuclear energy, the future newcomers, which is really interesting, which wasn't so visible in Taiwan like space, mining energy from space, human body and energy, magnetic energy, and all the things that are like has to be developed in the future. Brave and and for the talk is a brave innovation leading to stability, ecological civilization, which is like a important element of the of the Chinese imaginary preserving harmony, preserving

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a stability that that's a slow transition.

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And to

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yeah, these are things that are, I mean, that could be really relevant seen in China. But what is really interesting, and in a Chinese case in terms of knowledge production.

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and I can skip that because of the time and show you this one.

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This is what we found. How? The if, then, this is the answer of how the Chinese

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state and the machinery behind the energy transition is dealing with uncertainties and risks.

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So basically, the scheme across the all interviews across the data that we've detected is that the the thing that we called flexible experimentation, which allows allows local governments and local R&D companies at the local level experiment with their own

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innovation and knowledge production schemes which then is tested, and it goes back to the, to the central government and to knife andwind policies. And this is really interesting because it shows that the

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the, the certain kind of level of flexibility at the local level, and it. It can be like the good example of it from 78 from so starting in 1,978 are the the free economic zones, or right now, the pilot cities. So testing something in a in a very closed environment before implementing it on a on a wide scale.

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Yeah, so building a, a, a, a reflexive public reason model, as you can see, it's it's the the thing that you you can see on the on the left. Yeah, these are the private socio-technical vision. So those which were like we across different entities in society are discussing.

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But what what are those more important? But are the the socio-technical imaginaries, dominant versus alternatives, and the civic epistemologies which are under the influence of those imaginaries, and are responsible for recognizing uncertainties and translating them into risks.

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And this is, of course, leading to the new recreating new and manufacturing sentences. Yeah. And the conclusions, yeah, is that, of course, obvious one that that we've detected one St. I. And Prc. And 3 in Taiwan.

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the brave innovation leading to leading the world in Nprc. And and the focus real, the imagined role and necessity of numbers and technology as the only solution and rather important in both places.

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The flexible experimentation that I've showed you as a as a way to deal with uncertainties. In the Rc. And in Taiwan we see it rather as including different, especially what what is really for the future. Research is really interesting are the indigenous energy communities in Taiwan which are imaging. And this really would be like interesting to, to, to to deepen.

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Prc, of course, focusing on competing the road, Taiwan rather building a technological capacity to preserve sovereignity and business opportunities. And, as, as I said, the both the answers in science, research and mathematical language.

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Yeah, that's what I've already. Yeah, we were running out of time. So lessons learned from from from this, what? What can we learn using the the reflexive public reason that Taiwan is dealing with uncertainties by allowing various stis

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and civic epistemologies to influence policy making and its building identity on those differences. China has a common overall and common value. Still, prov provinces and counties can test and adjust policies to deal with uncertainties, then they will report it which can help change the national policies.

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The title which is Journey to the West was like the initial idea of my Ec. Project was to focus. How can, like European policies, can can learn from those, and what, what, what, what the European Union can then from the other context, and why the reflexive public reason can be useful in policy, making you think that recognizing sti and civic epistemologies can create more inclusive policies and more inclusive technologies

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in a way.

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in more informed policies, creating reflexive policies and building bridges, because when we are recognizing those different imaginaries, we can try to find a common ground between them and and create more inclusivity and then actually transition. Thank you.

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Oh, I'm sorry.

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So I'm very honored to have the opportunity to present my work today in this session. I'm Hajima Kimira from University of Toyama, Japan.

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I have a 2 Phd. And have the somewhat distinct background

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which is also the background of this presentation.

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So for that reason, please let me introduce myself.

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This study is based on my 10 years work experience as a consultant in a financial ship tank

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working with people from the government and companies. I've been doing the internal observation on the behavior of them.

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If describes the behavioral principle of them. it will be as follows.

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my interest is focused on the relationship between the 2 environmental sociological theories.

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As you know, there. For several decades these 2 theories have been sought to be in the conflicting relationship.

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However, I really examine the relationship. And I found this in the complementary relationship. Actually.

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I made a presentation on Monday

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in this week, on how this theory is in the complementary relationship.

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And also I published the paper on it last year. So I'd like to explain only the points of the complementary relationship

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fast

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in a.

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our emerged from inside of the actual political economic system, which is Schneider, is organized as Gop, threat meat or production system

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in A. M emerged as a slogan or crane for a political economy system to transition to environmental, influential reform based on these points of the complementary relationship.

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I am proposing the article Perspective, where

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top is positioned as political economy model

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and Am is positioned as political economy, mobilization, frame

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to see the main argument in advance, the approach

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focusing on the company complementality between T and and applying it to the social phenomenon of Isg investing.

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contribute to describe not only the deadlock situation, but also the new intervention pathway

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that can break through the dialogue.

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First of all, I like to explain how the deadlock is described in Tiopi model. And then where can we find the intervention passway?

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This is the image of Twoop. The main logic of Gop is represented as a model as follows. that is not enough time to explain in detail. But the point is

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as a system of and environmental, interesting structures. Environmental problems keep getting worse. Top is often described as pessimistic because

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analyzing the particular economic system with Toop leads to the view, all environmental measures are inadequate

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here. How this network situation, described in twoop model. It is described as societal environmental dialectic in the time of twop.

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It's located, especially in the sector of workers.

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that it to say. as you know, there.

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there! There is a dilemma between employment wages and the environment

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in this choice

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work as a channel to avoid prioritizing employment and wages over the environment. This societal embarrassment of the electric affects

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social legitimacy in the sector of government.

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As a result.

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government chooses faster expansion as the only possible option or policy.

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In this way societal environmental dialectic occupies the central part of the dead orchestration.

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This is a half the debt rock described using toop model.

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Then where is the chance for the effective intervention? Why, based on this Ethiop model.

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as you think, the essential approach to break through this deadlock is also the approach to societal environmental dialectic.

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In my opinion.

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a shift in social legitimacy is possible

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under the circumstances where society shakes ecological results in order to seek economic results.

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then, by F. Such a circumstance to regard

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it can be regarded by em frame as I talked earlier in this presentation.

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This is a analytical perspective based on the complementality.

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The point is that

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I am frame is position to bring each entity over to your P. The recognition. Environmental crashes can threaten economic growth itself.

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This can be the new intervention pathway as follows. in order to analyze the social phenomenon of esse investing the upgrade of theop model to modern budget is needed.

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Butter indicated the need of it.

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including financialization of global economies. Here financialization means the increasing roles of finance in various situations, then the most affected by this financialization. Investors and executives entropy system.

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As I talked earlier in this presentation Tup predicts all environmental measures in advocate.

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I'm on with them. Policy intervention is positioned as relatively effective.

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But in a global economy there are other limits for each country. Therefore global policy intervention is the only effective environmental measure. Logically.

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however, there has been no viable such institutional structures. This have ended Tiop theory with pestimism.

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but

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also it is an em like idea.

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There is a pathway to it. We as a reform from within the market. as the next best pathway. I'd explain this. paste

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Key play is Cdp. And ago headquarters in Uk.

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Gdp successfully intervened in the financial system. According to that. Gdp. Took the stance of leveraging the changes or populations between investors and executives.

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The other point in the frame that mobilizes the investors and executives.

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It is a frame

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with high affinity with eem. Climate change is a financial risk

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which directly appealed to the institutional investors.

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Main business, considering long-term profits.

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for example, the questionnaire includes not only show to emissions, but also the question of reflecting in this task point.

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She repeat data used also for bonus stock indexes

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in the 20 years since its founding Cdp's in frame has penetrated into the financial system.

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In 2021, the companies, with more than 60% of the world's aggregate market value, disclosed the information on climate change.

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This success of Gdp has a synergistic effect, reason

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post it a fair divestment movement.

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There is also the concept of stranded assets and the multinationalization of the financial disks of climate change. In this way Cdp's Em frame became materialized.

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It was just a bluntly efforts by companies here to for, but the movement to the institutionalization emerged.

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following behind the private sector. This is a history of the related to main events from 90 99

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in 2,017, following the order of the

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G. 20 Finance Ministers, the teaching actually recommendations were published.

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This is very important. This means the former consensus of national governments on the disclosure

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which corresponded to the institutionalization.

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As I talk later, this teaching actually enabled us a new type of environmental movement, anyway.

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considering the meaning of that.

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this all happened in Gop create me of production system.

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It will be as follows.

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it's first to regard by the Ngos intervention in the financial system.

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and then the branding efforts by the market were later institutionalized by institutionalized global by the gamma. Events following behind.

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This corresponds to that em frame brought each entity of toop the appropriate recognition. Environmental crisis can threaten. Economic growth is self.

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Importantly. this possibly means a new form of social legacy is now emerging.

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It might sound like A, but it is that

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the environment is considered

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precisely because economic results are required for maintaining employment, social welfare.

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And thus at my back

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the network situation into your system.

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In this way the social phenomenon of Esg. Investing is worth considering. In my opinion. then how can we grasp it in the systematic manner

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to say the conclusion in advance.

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I have the hypotheses that the activities of energy OS can be systematically grasped in this way.

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This is the ideal types of the energy OS activities. It uses 2 analytical axis.

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one of which represents the relationship between the financial system and Ngos.

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the other over which represents to what extent the way of Ngos intervention are utilizing market logic.

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I'll explain this

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in the order from the left bottom. Go

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about the type one

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confrontational and movement, like intervention, is the historical origin of the environmental governance in industry investing from 1916.

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Even now it is creating social pressure.

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And that's the basis for the other activities from type 2 to type 4. For example, an Ngo backtrack jazz, the data on the amount of the loans for a cold-fired power and publishes it as a world-

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and also criticize it. The Japanese biggest 3 banks

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for their slow pace of actions, for example.

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about as a type, 2 collaborative and movement like intervention.

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This type collaborator support financial system to transform instead of taking a confident test run stance. The representative Ngo in this type is series

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which is a pioneer in the information disclosure for A/C. Investing

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Cnn's was founded by Joan Bavaria, who was also a proliferation on investing

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her idea was very interesting, for it to us, close to fat is now called daggers thinking

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based on the achievement of a series.

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It became possible to tell you all the activities

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bring market logic and am frame to the front.

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As I talked earlier.

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Gdp operates in a building business like manner. So I classified it as business style, transformation support.

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anyway, with the contribution of the Cdp. As this social recognition penetrates into the financial system.

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what is becoming materialized is the approach intervening in the financial system in a confrontational way.

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While using such a market logic.

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I think this can be called market-based social movement.

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It might sound like a paradotis car. But this new type of environmental movement is very important.

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The example is the she-handed action as a part of the fossil fuel and divestment movement

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also in Japan there was such a movement in 2,020. For the first time.

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The content of the liquest was to make a plan for was due to reduction and disclose the information.

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The reason for the proposal was interesting, because it was to maintain and increase its cooperative body.

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Why? Which is like in frame.

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This is due to conforming to the format of shareholder proposals.

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Such shareholder proposals are increasing also in Japan and get 10 to 70% approval in general. even though it does not change the articles of incorporation.

401
01:17:40.440 --> 01:17:49.850
it's enough to pressure the companies. In fact. the companies often make some changes in general. And importantly.

402
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as you noticed, this type of movement are made possible by other types of environmental movement.

403
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For example, this type of intervention is based on the type, one confrontational and movement like intervention, which I told just now.

404
01:18:06.760 --> 01:18:14.260
Thus there are the structure reinforcing each other in a spider shape. In my opinion.

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do some of my presentation.

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This is a conclusion, and of course there is a resistance to it from the financial systems.

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Thus this is a very political one.

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So to add sustainable energy transitions, we need to study on this our environmental governance structure formula by

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Ngos and the financial systems in my open ear.

410
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Thank you so much for your attention.

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so all the presenters include them from. So you make use of the microphones.

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and maybe I'll also see for the

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benefit of the zoom room. Maybe we'll stop the share and

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let's see who's there who's in the room there? And so if you have questions, please come to the the mic at the front of the room. So folks in the Virtual room can also hear what's going on.

415
01:19:31.240 --> 01:19:35.069
In that case I'll take the oh, go for it. Yeah, thanks.

416
01:19:42.050 --> 01:19:49.840
I I the question about offsetting because I I'm not really in the literature, so I don't really often understand

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the the like. The details. So. But there's something I've sometimes wondered about is that you have these schemes that are in reality often not that effective

418
01:19:59.480 --> 01:20:04.259
which is a critic. I heard one of the earlier days that many of the

419
01:20:04.270 --> 01:20:08.170
things don't really work. But there's another question like you have like this scheme of

420
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of offsetting that has to be managed and has to be control. So there's like a whole range of institutions.

421
01:20:14.300 --> 01:20:21.790
That's that's which such schemes depend on. And and these these institutions and these networks are not carbon neutral.

422
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I guess.

423
01:20:23.520 --> 01:20:36.070
So. That's something I've found. If if you, if these upsetting schemes is the like, the managing and the controlling of these teams, is it also incorporated in the carbon neutrality, or is it something that is just looked past.

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And, for example, we have, like these inspectors, I guess, that have to fly everywhere to check.

425
01:20:42.140 --> 01:20:49.129
So it is also also included in in these things? Or is it something that we don't look at? Thank you.

426
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No.

427
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it's really heavy microphone. Thanks for the question. It's a very interesting question, and, to tell the truth, I'd never thought about that. That's a very novel perspective.

428
01:21:05.190 --> 01:21:16.240
so I can't answer this, but my impression is that I've never seen any conversations about this. So I think all of the emphasis right now is on setting rules for the carbon market

429
01:21:16.310 --> 01:21:27.720
and the rules about quality basically revolve around 2 principles, and one, I think, is additionality. So the idea is that without the finance that comes from

430
01:21:27.760 --> 01:21:42.430
a company to the carbon market than a project that is trying to reduce emissions that it wouldn't have taken place. So the idea is that by creating offsets and people buying this that creates new money that creates new activities to reduce carbon in the world

431
01:21:42.430 --> 01:22:03.170
additionality. And the other one is, I think, you know, like, I guess. the effectiveness of these projects, so that requires very rigorous, you know, measurements that include baseline calculation, etc. But I've never really heard any conversations about, you know. Let's make, for example, the registry of the United Nations clean development mechanism. Let's make all the people that work on this carbon neutral arm.

432
01:22:03.220 --> 01:22:05.700
Yeah, that that's a interesting idea.

433
01:22:06.190 --> 01:22:17.560
yeah, I think we can sort of maybe ask these questions about conferences, too. But I think I mean, if the conferences are just using offsets, as we know, and the World Cup, the so the Supper World Cup is just using assets. That's also being criticized. But anyway.

434
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:20.349
I hope I answered your question. Thank you.

435
01:22:23.860 --> 01:22:26.480
Okay, thanks.

436
01:22:26.730 --> 01:22:28.000
Impressive.

437
01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:51.590
thank you. Everyone for your presentations. I really enjoy all of your your your research, and I've learned a lot. So I have a question for Patty, and I have a question for Dr. Kimura. so my question to you, Patty, is So you you very rightly point out that when it comes to disadvantage communities, when

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they, they, they have other more pressing needs to address right? and so you. And it's also very expensive to install green solar panels in in those types of residences.

439
01:23:08.540 --> 01:23:18.130
so in your work with the communities? What? What are the kinds of ideas and alternative

440
01:23:18.170 --> 01:23:48.170
suggestions that work for them? in in, in, in this particular situation? Right? And then my question for Dr. Kimura. So so you you mentioned that climate change is now increasingly seen as a financial risk, particularly in in your interactions with the the with financial actors. Right?

441
01:23:48.410 --> 01:23:51.330
And my sense is that

442
01:23:51.450 --> 01:24:01.310
climate change as a financial risk is still very much a a discursive artifact. And so I'm wondering whether you have seen

443
01:24:01.860 --> 01:24:10.420
time at risk actually being assessed as a financial risk. For because from my understanding at the moment.

444
01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:17.539
climate data has not really been integrated with financial risk. assessment models.

445
01:24:17.700 --> 01:24:19.429
So yeah, thank you.

446
01:24:22.070 --> 01:24:22.890
I

447
01:24:23.360 --> 01:24:26.459
let me start with the

448
01:24:26.480 --> 01:24:32.609
the aspirations of communities and the priorities of communities.

449
01:24:32.710 --> 01:24:43.270
What we found is that there are different groupings of these communities. There are not one entity. And for so I mean, some don't really.

450
01:24:43.530 --> 01:24:54.789
For some all this electrification. It does not matter. They don't care. They are more interested in making sure. They the hearts to jobs they deal with.

451
01:24:54.820 --> 01:25:05.870
drop addiction. They deal with very pres in it. So they wonder, why are we coming with all this stuff when they have of more important things to do?

452
01:25:06.060 --> 01:25:10.140
Another key set of responses it could be

453
01:25:10.250 --> 01:25:21.120
revolves around. Okay, I want to use support of a lady who said, Well, let's use these technologies to identify the the red line songs.

454
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Right? You can identify us. And you can help us, because guess what? We we are invisible to you. So there is this position of saying, Okay, this is happening. How can we make it work for us? And and the example of mobility is interesting because they are saying, Well, we are not convinced at this grouping right? We are not convinced that we need privately

455
01:25:44.210 --> 01:25:53.839
give us other options, many options, things we can share, etc. Right? And then there is another group that says, You know, don't come with more news.

456
01:25:54.070 --> 01:25:55.100
It's

457
01:25:55.440 --> 01:26:07.439
yes, yes, right no more don't come. And we as us, we are tired of this. We don't believe you. How do you come again to promise us many things

458
01:26:07.470 --> 01:26:25.920
that we don't care about? Right. As for how expensive the the issues are. It has been a really a learning process for me to understand that. And the issues of inequity are not only issues of

459
01:26:25.990 --> 01:26:32.849
being able to afford things. That's this commodification of nature. Right? At the same we get you. You need to afford it.

460
01:26:33.080 --> 01:26:36.150
Many people are saying, I want access

461
01:26:36.420 --> 01:26:49.140
to good quality. High- road jobs don't come and send me your your programs and your subsidies. Give me options to, you know, to self-determine, etc., meaning

462
01:26:49.180 --> 01:26:55.870
affordability per se is not enough to understand what is going on here. You need to understand how

463
01:26:56.250 --> 01:27:07.559
affordability intersex with access, with a neglect and with exclusion, to explain where communities are. But again, my sense is that

464
01:27:07.620 --> 01:27:11.270
many are not buying into the transition sadly

465
01:27:11.540 --> 01:27:21.440
right, and I don't know what transition this is, anyway, I just think there are many transitions, and what we are not able to understand is that

466
01:27:21.790 --> 01:27:42.869
there are many realities like what happens in India when I was going for borders has nothing not very enough on what happens in Mexico, or even inside. I mean, Mumbai is not like Delhi. Mexico City is not like well-a-hara. So I think there are many imaginaries and many

467
01:27:43.470 --> 01:27:49.999
characters of change and and understanding. How this all comes together is what we don't have you about.

468
01:27:50.220 --> 01:27:56.940
I hope you don't get upset with me about not giving you like one answer

469
01:27:57.920 --> 01:28:00.320
with many.

470
01:28:06.920 --> 01:28:12.490
So thank you so much for your question.

471
01:28:12.840 --> 01:28:14.690
I see.

472
01:28:14.950 --> 01:28:27.119
I feel on the same feeling. I have the same feeling. I have a safe view with you. The current situation on this thing

473
01:28:27.190 --> 01:28:49.249
is a just to a starting point. So in this way I have that same view on and based on this understanding, my

474
01:28:49.280 --> 01:28:56.310
of this presentation. Was I just a you to

475
01:28:56.320 --> 01:28:59.129
to the climate change,

476
01:28:59.250 --> 01:29:06.509
falling into excessive pessimism, lower existing optimism.

477
01:29:06.650 --> 01:29:14.309
So I choose a Kp model because it is so to be

478
01:29:14.800 --> 01:29:29.099
maybe most a pessimistic model. So I, my, my idea of us, yeah. So starting with cup model, so how can we

479
01:29:29.270 --> 01:29:31.550
back through the debt of straightforward?

480
01:29:31.580 --> 01:29:39.990
So when I maybe something on this kind of starting point. So

481
01:29:40.410 --> 01:29:41.370
that

482
01:29:41.480 --> 01:29:45.309
so yeah, the conclusion in this.

483
01:29:45.790 --> 01:29:48.550
my twenties room was

484
01:29:49.230 --> 01:30:00.800
using the inning like plane is maybe a possible. And yeah.

485
01:30:01.310 --> 01:30:06.110
parks are the only way to bring

486
01:30:06.280 --> 01:30:14.850
like appropriate recommendation to each entity over Q of the modern investors and

487
01:30:14.950 --> 01:30:16.920
and also government.

488
01:30:17.460 --> 01:30:25.129
So yes, so in total, I I believe, with you.

489
01:30:25.170 --> 01:30:34.130
and this is my point in this position. So thank you so very much. You have a good, kind

490
01:30:39.950 --> 01:30:46.980
thanks so much to everyone. It was a very stimulating panel. I had a couple of questions

491
01:30:47.090 --> 01:30:50.959
 2 of you. So the first was to

492
01:30:51.120 --> 01:30:53.640
Gregory, which is, I conjure

493
01:30:54.270 --> 01:31:02.210
analysis clarifying, nicely clarifying. So I

494
01:31:02.230 --> 01:31:07.190
I just wanted to ask you a first off

495
01:31:08.400 --> 01:31:15.709
in terms of offsets. Many of them. Most offsets are now, I think it's fair to say, domestic rather than international

496
01:31:16.010 --> 01:31:20.059
through land use change measures, certainly, in this country.

497
01:31:20.090 --> 01:31:25.720
and I did wonder whether the actual line to be drawn rather than between avoided versus

498
01:31:25.980 --> 01:31:27.649
reduced emissions, but

499
01:31:27.760 --> 01:31:35.750
perhaps should be between emissions, reduction at source, which is your point about reduced fossil fuel.

500
01:31:35.850 --> 01:31:41.860
extraction and sale on the one hand, and the expansion of sinks

501
01:31:41.900 --> 01:31:42.969
on the other.

502
01:31:43.090 --> 01:31:45.649
or maintenance of 6.

503
01:31:45.850 --> 01:31:51.729
This question of avoided versus actual is, I don't think quite such a fundamental distinction.

504
01:31:51.870 --> 01:31:58.019
because I would suggest that that distinction between emissions, reduction at source versus it sinks.

505
01:31:58.420 --> 01:32:03.199
Expansion is at the center of the net 0 concept in the Paris

506
01:32:04.420 --> 01:32:09.470
agreement. So is is actually at the center of global climate governance. So I think.

507
01:32:09.950 --> 01:32:13.970
which is where, of course, which, of course, legitimizes this whole gang.

508
01:32:14.020 --> 01:32:19.030
So that's disturbing point, I guess. And then to to this

509
01:32:19.220 --> 01:32:48.109
quickly. just to, I find it, since for question of the emergence of decarbonization imaginaries and and the generative process of this and very fluid, rapid process fascinating that I totally agree with. I've been very interested in student actually working on the registered the Ppa power purchase agreement model for large scale utilities.

510
01:32:48.120 --> 01:32:54.430
 as a yeah, attempt to fix. So in this process you get capital trying to fix

511
01:32:54.580 --> 01:33:04.099
against these uncertainties capacity to make a return that so as well as these other imaginaries as you're talking about, which I find so fascinating.

512
01:33:04.270 --> 01:33:07.900
so just again, just to comment on that

513
01:33:08.020 --> 01:33:13.380
as an as you as you identify an experimental process.

514
01:33:13.550 --> 01:33:18.530
and that happens at different scales. Thanks. So much for your

515
01:33:23.050 --> 01:33:30.780
yeah. Thanks. The microphone is in front of me. So I'll respond very briefly in first. So that's an excellent, I think observation that you've made.

516
01:33:30.800 --> 01:33:43.759
and I'm not going to refute this view on like personal grounds. I just would like to, I guess, in response to just raise a few points that I think would be important if we were to pursue the route of I guess you know, generating large amounts of credits

517
01:33:43.760 --> 01:34:07.759
based upon avoidance actions at the so called source. I was just thinking, what are some concrete examples here? I guess so. People in the audience can understand what this might entail. So I guess if we have a power plant we could sort of install, you know, carbon capture and storage, and we could sort of capture some of those emissions and prevent them from going into the atmosphere. And then we could, you know, sell credits based upon. That's an easy to understand example, I think another one might be in this room here we could fit in some, you know, advanced lighting of

518
01:34:07.760 --> 01:34:32.560
where an improved air conditioning system or in a factory, we could sort of destroy some. you know, ozone depleting substances that also cause climate change. So these type of actions. So for this to work, I think we need 2 important things to occur. One is the additionality. So we have to sort of demonstrate that these actions wouldn't. you know the investment? The project would not have occurred in the absence of our offsets, and this is a constant, I think, battle for all types of projects.

519
01:34:32.730 --> 01:34:38.709
So I think that's just a thing we have to keep in mind. The other thing is, I think, the cost of these actions.

520
01:34:38.870 --> 01:34:58.099
If a lot of these carbon re reducing actions were cheap. In the first place, I think a lot of companies will be doing them, especially when it's ties into energy consumption. Because we know the energy is expensive, and if companies can, you know, reduce their energy, I think, as as especially at a low cost, they're very interested, especially in under current conditions.

521
01:34:58.100 --> 01:35:20.439
So I think the cost is how very important. And what we're finding is that a lot of these technology based solutions are a little bit expensive. And so we're going for these sort of cheaper solutions, which is red projects which are quite cheap, and then, renewable energy, a lot of so a lot of the in the Cdm. And also vera. So you mentioned the Australia has a lot of I guess domestic credits and a lot of them are related to land use.

522
01:35:20.440 --> 01:35:35.339
and I would suspect that they're quite cheap because Australia has lots of land, but in the industrial applications, United Nations, Cdm and Vera, they are very old. They are actually relics of the Cdm era

523
01:35:35.340 --> 01:35:48.539
and so I just, you know, technological solutions tend to be more expensive. But we have this emerging sort of discourse, and there's a need for this about capturing emissions from the atmosphere through direct air capture things like this.

524
01:35:48.550 --> 01:35:54.899
And unfortunately they're extremely expensive. But this whole idea of capturing at the source. This is extremely important, and that's why I'm

525
01:35:55.290 --> 01:36:19.179
we have the United Nations out just only last year, just pointing out that to pursue net 0. They expect companies to take actions, to reduce emissions internally, and to only use offsets as in that additional measure, and not to count this to what's in it. And this also is the stance of the science based targets initiative. But yeah, I think this on a very interesting discussion about offices, and I tried to keep my personal opinion out of this. Thanks.

526
01:36:27.510 --> 01:36:47.409
Thank you very much for for this question. What I what I what we did we we were looking at the very like high level of it was very in in terms of the of the of the scales of energy. Governance was was rather high level. So it was like scientists who were describing their own or

527
01:36:48.180 --> 01:36:55.730
within the energy system and their relations with policy and experimentation, especially in China.

528
01:36:55.840 --> 01:37:02.679
So, and we were looking how those things are presented also in the legal documents, and and and press

529
01:37:02.890 --> 01:37:05.010
what what we.

530
01:37:05.190 --> 01:37:15.000
what we found as as as the most interesting thing I would say was that that, as you said, the the ways that they deal with uncertainties and risks.

531
01:37:15.240 --> 01:37:16.580
and so

532
01:37:17.870 --> 01:37:31.409
there are. I mean, this is like a work that can and and and my opinion would be great to keep in it on a very, maybe not very local level, but focusing rather on exact mechanisms.

533
01:37:31.640 --> 01:37:33.340
So looking how the

534
01:37:33.400 --> 01:37:46.779
like, how the chain from this experimental side! And then how does it work. and how? What would the race call a dealer with it? What were they the common grounds, and how did it return into the policy?

535
01:37:47.080 --> 01:37:53.059
So this is a thing like you've mentioned, like the very exact things, and very exactly

536
01:37:53.140 --> 01:38:01.439
mechanisms has to be developed. So what we what we have, it's a very like general mechanism, how they work, and

537
01:38:01.480 --> 01:38:04.739
and it's a basis for deepening it.

538
01:38:04.930 --> 01:38:06.549
And

539
01:38:06.940 --> 01:38:14.900
And the other thing that I see interesting, especially in relation to your work

540
01:38:14.960 --> 01:38:28.280
is deepening those understandings of imaginaries and ways of dealing with uncertainties at a very, also local level. So, as you said, between that, that's another region that is, really, I'm very much interested

541
01:38:30.480 --> 01:38:35.560
and like to see how those things are imagined at different scales.

542
01:38:35.730 --> 01:38:43.289
It's it's really, I think it's really important also to have this dimension, how the innovation is seen and

543
01:38:43.570 --> 01:39:00.830
and like we did in the national level. But then, how this national level is like influencing and sometimes colliding with the local level, because people are different in imagining their future. In a local town, in a local district, whatever near mine or whatever.

544
01:39:00.879 --> 01:39:04.740
then the state is imagining innovation and technological

545
01:39:04.750 --> 01:39:10.989
progress. So yeah, that's my answer would be that, yes, this needs much more better

546
01:39:12.360 --> 01:39:17.439
research and also focus on one special mechanisms, and observing.

547
01:39:23.459 --> 01:39:43.929
Hi! My name is Gail. I'm from the University of the Philippines, and my question is directed to Dr. Kimura. But if anyone in the panel would like to add that, appreciate that, too. So I really appreciate the potential of this model you're presenting, which aligns the economic goals with the environmental goals of

548
01:39:44.040 --> 01:39:52.890
society. So, but I was just wondering how how you think this model can account to areas where

549
01:39:53.010 --> 01:40:20.510
such financial or economic goals are, you know, contradicting the specific needs of the people. For example, I I'm thinking of the underserved areas in the Philippines, for example, we are still encountering the issue of the off-grid islands still being an electrified. And we are, we have these 2 pressing points. One is that most of those

550
01:40:20.629 --> 01:40:34.460
energy developers who are capable of investing in these areas are the ones who are already invested on coal power plants and and the more centralized areas. And the second one is that

551
01:40:34.841 --> 01:41:00.750
they don't see the financial benefits of electrifying these areas because in terms of the economy of scale. It's just, it's simply not profitable, and introduces more risk and uncertainty for them. So I was wondering how you may see this model of adapt to such areas like, I don't think it's unique in the Philippines. It might be shared in other under developed countries. Thank you.

552
01:41:02.040 --> 01:41:07.549
Thank you so much for your good ratio

553
01:41:07.990 --> 01:41:12.120
to say in, but

554
01:41:12.299 --> 01:41:15.929
my proposed model has a limitation.

555
01:41:16.190 --> 01:41:23.009
You get so, and I have to say, I,

556
01:41:23.160 --> 01:41:39.470
the model is a political economy model. So, as you know, there are many kind of political economy from country to country, and also the community.

557
01:41:39.480 --> 01:41:43.000
So the model

558
01:41:43.570 --> 01:42:00.339
at present don't consider any day. So I have to elaborate, or in the context, targeted countries or committees.

559
01:42:22.590 --> 01:42:24.020
Many problems

560
01:42:24.030 --> 01:42:25.930
in this

561
01:42:26.280 --> 01:42:30.929
in this kind of problem have a

562
01:42:31.280 --> 01:42:34.240
the dilemma between our

563
01:42:34.800 --> 01:42:38.320
world cup and environment.

564
01:42:38.400 --> 01:42:42.240
So those an environment program.

565
01:42:42.300 --> 01:42:48.619
So it is essentially described in tropy model.

566
01:42:48.650 --> 01:42:57.519
It's societal environmental, geographic. As I thought. the balance is very important

567
01:42:57.590 --> 01:43:10.889
and the Kp model is a model. It's actually based on the dialectic. So the dynamic.

568
01:43:10.890 --> 01:43:30.520
So political economy can move. So in this way, I think I have the potential. But it's not. I'm trying to update the T

569
01:43:30.850 --> 01:43:32.420
for any

570
01:43:32.450 --> 01:43:44.400
great So we're we're just about at our time, so I'll I'll maybe I'll invite folks. We have about 2 min left of the official session, so if there's anything in 30 s. Anybody wants to add at the table

571
01:43:44.630 --> 01:44:14.309
or so, but I will point out we have a second session of of in the in this stream. you know of of kind of sustainable energy transitions starting at 1030. Also in this room, so unlike a marvel blockbuster or Avengers movie. You don't need to wait an hour or a year or 2 for the second part, you can have the second part in about 10 min. So so please join me in thanking our presenters. And yeah, I can carry on this conversation.

572
01:44:14.850 --> 01:44:15.510
Thank you.