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Ok, Hello, everybody. A very warm welcome to this session. I'm very pleased to

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yeah, to to have that session, because, as I already said, when it comes to violence in the context of mental health and psychiatry. It was mostly about mental, with people with mental health problems as perpetrators, but not as people who suffer or who are victims of violence, and this is

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changing and constantly changing. So I'm really pleased to have such a a great a session with 4 excellent speakers. And so I just want to

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get over to Juliet Watson. And yes, the stage is yours. Yes.

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thanks.

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Okay. So to bring up my session, do I just click on me

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just while we're waiting. I'd like to acknowledge that we're meeting on the grounds of the woman wrong, and we were on the language groups of the Eastern cooler nations, and that we're meeting on lands that have never been seeded.

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So I'm presenting today on findings from a research project that I led prior to the pandemic. So I've kind of had to put my head back into it. I haven't looked at this material for a while. And it's been good going back into this. and this is funded by the

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and the Australian National Research Organisation for Women's Safety, and my team and I were funded to look at experiences of gender-based violence that were occurring in inpatient mental health units. So I'd like to acknowledge the work of my colleagues, Dr. Chris Mayley, Russell, Roberts, Sue Mccallum, and Dr. Nicholas Hill.

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Chris and I worked closely on this project, and Chris's background is actually as a mental health lawyer. he's also a social worker, and I come from a gender-based violence background. So we were. We kind of bringing our

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our frameworks and our understanding together. But as Chris isn't here, I will be speaking more to the gender-based violence aspects of the research, and not so much about the the guidelines that were established. As a result of this work I'll touch on them briefly, but the focus will be very much on the experiences that the women we interviewed talked about through the research

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having gone back into this because this was a research report, I will be presenting a more applied research study. But

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I am, you know, thinking theoretically about how I am going to progress. This was this research. So I I'm very open and interested to hear from people in the room today about any ideas that you might have where we can go with this data to explore it in in, in innovative, in new ways.

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 So the research questions that underpinned this study? 2 questions, what are the experiences of gender-based violence for women staying in adult mental health units?

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And how can those experiences inform and improve policy and service delivery?

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And we had a range of stakeholders involved in the research. There you can see the universities involved Northwestern Mental Health Service, which covers the health region. It's very long corridor local. Several local government areas in Melbourne.

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Victorian Legal Aid mental health legal centre. We had an advisory panel that that involved consumer advocates, and very importantly, we had the speaking from Experience Group, which is a consumer advocate group attached to Victorian legal aid.

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Going back and looking at how we conducted this research, and not knowing much more now about consumer-led research and participant

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engage participant-led research. I think I do it differently

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from how we did it at the time. But this is what we this is what we have.

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So.

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as a result. We we interviewed 11 women as part of this project. There was a whole other stakeholder. engaged interview workshop aspect to it. But I'm going to be focusing on the interviews with the women.

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and recruitment was not an easy process for a range of reasons. It actually took a year to get ethics approval for this project for what was

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essentially an 18 month project, but then became 2 years. So it was very difficult, and even then, when we received ethics ethical approval, although, having spoken with our partner organisations that it would be easy to recruit. This

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proved not to be the case

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for all sorts of reasons which I can go into if people are interested

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about that. But we actually found approaching peer to peer networks the most fruitful for getting recruitment, and this is, I think this is understandable when you've built relationships with consumers who can then recruit other consumers?

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that made a big difference. All the participants in this research were cisgender women. So we need, I need to note that this is the lens through which this research is presented. So it's not the full picture and most of the women were were white.

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Now, obviously there are issues related to gender-based safety for trans women, for non-binary people, for gender queer people that we were not able to capture in this research. So

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I've got that in my mind as something that has not been included here. Nevertheless, we did speak to women who experience many intersectional oppressions in relation not only to their mental health concerns, but other disability, chronic illness.

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living in rural areas and being from a culturally and linguistically diverse background.

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just briefly, we ran workshops with stakeholders, service providers attached to northwestern mental health.

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as you can see the make up of those workshops. I can talk more about that if people are interested at the end. But I'd rather get to the data

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for the women that we spoke to. So, of course, we went looking for experiences of gender-based violence, and we we did find experiences of gender-based violence, and these were predominantly

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the types of experiences that the women described.

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In the main, they The abuse was perpetrated by men who were also in patients in the units, but there were also reports of violence perpetrated by male staff

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at the units, such as security guards.

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This mostly occurred in the context of treatments, such as seclusion and restraint. And this in itself is is a whole other area and contentious

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area, content contentious practices. I'm not going to talk to it so much today, I'm going to focus on the other aspects. But I did want to note that this, you know, this contributes to a context in which women are feeling unsafe in mental health units.

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Women also described experiencing abuse from men that were known to them, and this could happen, not necessarily in an obvious, physically abusive way. One woman we spoke to said how staff at the unit contact? She had entered voluntarily the unit.

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one of the men, one of the staff, there contacted her ex partner for background information on her situation, even though her file specifically said they were separated, and he was not to be contacted, and

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this was taken as background information, and she was subsequently involuntary, involuntarily admitted. There. So there's there's abuse happening in in all these different ways. There was another woman who'd been homeless, who spoke about

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mentioned you from her experiences, experiences of homelessness, being able to come onto the wards and abuse her there so

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predominantly men who were already in patients, but not they, were not the only source.

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So in terms of verbal abuse and threats. I mean this.

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you know this, my mostly took the

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the form of threats of physical and sexual violence. But I've I've included this quote here, because I think this speaks to something a little bit different around the verbal comments and what women are confronting in in-patient mental health units, so you can hear, see here that Jen talks about

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the environment of the unit as being like a bar like a pickup joint, and that being there in this mixed gender environment. Environment made women susceptible to attentions. And

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you know, harassment

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that isn't that goes on and isn't acceptable outside of units. But they're also going on in places where women should be able to feel safe. Jen also spoke about having comments made about her when she was using relaxation strategies such as Yoga, and having sexualized comments made about her

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now she makes, is it in the quote, yeah, she makes a comment here that The men outnumbered the women. This doesn't actually reflect the statistics of the gender balance in mental health. In patients

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it might have been the balance when she was there, or it might just be an indication of how she perceived the space and her safety within that space. It may have felt like a very male dominated environment for her.

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Another aspect that was spoken about was exposure to sexual imagery. So male, in-patient, accessing pornography on digital devices

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And how uncomfortable that made women feel being there.

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and of course

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several of the women had experienced sexual assault. 5 5 of the 11 had experienced a sexual assault during one or multiple stays in a mental health unit

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which included

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everything, from unwanted touching through to rape.

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And the women talked about how

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it was often an incremental thing, so it would start off as harassment.

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and due to failure of staff on the units intervening in what was going on. This would escalate over a period of time.

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So

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when this goes unchecked, the severity of violence can can increase

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So Zoe, who's not up there, we've got Elizabeth talking there about someone who was coming into a locked ward. Constantly Zoe, another participant, talked about how she had harassment

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 While she was on a locked women's unit. The harassment had continued. She'd spoken to Staff. Nothing was done, and then she was raped in her room on a locked ward where someone was able to just.

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He gained access by following people through as they swiped into the well. Those of you who are not from Australia we have different. The wards are very different, depending on where you are, at least in Victoria I can only speak to Victoria, but

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They are often set up with shared communal spaces, and then separate men's and women's wards.

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And because of

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a pressure on beds in the wards.

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it's definitely not uncommon for men to be placed in women's wards and women to be placed in men's walls. In rural areas the situation is even more limited, because you've only got a set number of beds, and people tend to be in there all together.

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 The women also spoke about physical assault, and I've used this example here. It's a lot to read. But

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it's Jen again, talking about kind of this expectation that she would put up with the behavior of a man who kept wanting to touch her hug her, shake her hand.

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and when she decided that she'd had enough

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and wanted to put a stop to this, it wasn't actually Jen who was assaulted. It was her male companion, the person sitting with her in the in the mixed gender space, who was assaulted. So I just wanted to expand on this. It's not just.

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It's not women who are necessarily just at risk in these circumstances. It's men who are sitting with women, but it is

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kind of a diverted, gender-based violence that's going on there.

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Now. What this meant for the women we spoke to

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is they didn't in the main have confidence that staff could manage these situations for very good reasons, because they hadn't experienced staff intervening in ways that had stopped the behaviour, and it meant that the women then had to take responsibility for men's behavior on the wards.

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So

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this meant putting in place strategies

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for self-protection. So the women would do things like avoid common areas.

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which meant they were caught in their rooms all the time. Being unable to actually socialize.

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they made the decision at times not to pursue matters because that could escalate a situation.

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They would leave the unit early.

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so they would discharge themselves earlier than they would have wanted to, because they didn't feel safe on the units. One woman even talked about taking out private health insurance so that she would never have to go back to the same public war that she had been to before.

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Now, 2 particular areas I want to give mentioned to as a so a management strategy are men is a source of protection and transactional sex. And this

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I've come at this from previous research. I've done in the field of homelessness and survival sex.

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So it struck me that there was similar

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strategies going on that you see, amongst homeless women going on in the mental health

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wards. So

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in both situations.

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women felt that it was their responsibility to take care of themselves.

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And first, this is through seeking out and relying on men for protection against other men. So I've described this in previous research as vicarious physical capital.

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And it's a concept I developed from Borgia's social capital theory, and how it's been extended by scholars such as Beverly Skegs and Chris Shelling.

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Now shilling shilling's work on embodiment makes a convincing case for analyzing physical bodies, to identify how they contribute to and produce social inequalities.

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and he argues that

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we need to theorize the body to understand material aspects, and how these are

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analysed and experienced in space and time. So, in conjunction with Skeg's assertion that there are particular versions of masculinity

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that are symbolically dominant in ways that femininity isn't.

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My contention is that there are certain male bodies in these environments bit homelessness, mental health units, who are ascribed social power and greater entitlement to certain spaces. And I think this is what's going on that their physical bearing occupy space in a way that female bodies are not able to. And of course I'm talking about certain male bodies here. Not all male bodies carry this privilege.

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So the male body, therefore, represents to women in these wards physical protection

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in an environment that's hostile to the female body.

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 but of course, once this alliance is gone.

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that protection is missing.

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The second aspect I mentioned there is transactional sex. And my

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my prior work on Survival sex

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challenge notions of transactional sex just being purely about material gain. And you know, for housing, for drugs, for money.

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And we can see here, with Catherine's situation that these aren't limited to the homeless sphere

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in the hemisphere. Of course his behavior is stigmatized, and there is this expectation that women will trade sex

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for various material goods. What we see here, though, is Catherine, is also expected to trade sex to have somewhere safe to stay for the night, so she's on the ward. She can't sleep because she's got a a roommate who is bothering her. She goes outside to just get some peace. There's a man sleeping out there or trying to sleep out there as well, and in order for her to have a blanket and to be able to stay there. She has to trade sex to be in that shared space.

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 so yeah, I guess just other aspects of the length that women are expected to go to to manage their situations, and of course, I mean we would frame this as sexual assault.

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Catherine doesn't miss. Well, I think Catherine did frame it as sexual assault. She looked back on it and was, was pretty horrified

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by what had happened. How am I going for time? Am I?

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Am I going all right for time. Yes, sorry. I haven't got much to go. I just wanted to.

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Okay. So we asked the women, of course, what would they like to see?

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That's different. And I have to say, these aren't

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particularly revolutionary findings. People have been working in this this space before. In in Victoria, in Australia the built environment always comes up.

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and

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no one ever wants to spend the money that it's going to take to provide safe spaces for women.

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There was very strong support amongst our group of fully segregated mental health, inpatient units. And again I say, this reflects the views of cisgender women.

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 And they were very clear that they didn't want shared spaces. A women's ward and a men's ward was not enough

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here. They wanted separate spaces all together.

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otherwise, as they'd shown us, they were avoiding these, these these shared spaces.

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And

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and the other issue, of course, was staffing here. They wanted to see higher levels of staffing, and and I don't go into this in this presentation. But

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the the work we did with the staff. They pretty much said to us that they cannot guarantee women's safety on the wards. They don't have the staffing levels and the training to be able to provide safe spaces which is borne out in the experiences. But they wanted higher staffing levels. They want to better train staff.

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Not all experiences with the staff was negative.

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but they wanted to see consistent knowledge of things like trauma-informed practice.

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How to respond to gender based violence. I wanted a person-centered approach, not a systems based approach.

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they wanted to see there. There was, I mean, the mental health field has done incredible work around peer support. What the women we spoke to wanted to see was more specialized peer support around responding to sexual violence in particular.

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and they also wanted

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immediate access to a specialized sexual assault Councillor, in circumstances where a sexual assault had occurred.

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And this is something that is available in Victoria

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to all women.

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but not if you're on a mental health unit.

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And finally, they wanted the. They wanted to be allowed to transfer to another unit if they were unsafe in the one they were currently in.

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That's the end of my presentation. Thank you. Everyone

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for the Senate. you doing questions now? Or at the end questions. Now, thank you very much. Yeah. We have time for short questions.

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You can talk to me later, too, if you'd like.

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yeah.

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just in regards to sharing the findings of the of the report that you did. Did you experience any challenges?

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in terms of organizations wanting to include or not include information. I come from a a workplace where we're doing work with the medically supervised injecting room. And yeah, there's a lot of government oversight as to what can be shared and and

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potentially what they might. What have oversight over before it is shed. So just was curious as to that. Yeah, actually, no, I don't know if that would be the same now, because this was done. Pretty covid. Our our oversight happened at the Ethics level which I mentioned took a year to get through. I think we were lucky in that predominantly. Our work was done with North, West, Northwestern mental health, and

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I have to give them credit because they, you know, they were putting their practice on the line with us. Not everyone we worked with went through that the participants weren't necessarily from Northwestern mental health.

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but they were absolutely putting themselves on the line as being a partner to this project by acknowledging that that the units aren't safe. So they they were actually pretty good. so no, we didn't experience it once we got the ethics approval, but I think I mentioned recruitment was very difficult, and I think this is how it played out in other ways. So yes, you'll be able to recruit lots of people we've got, you know, 25 on the list already of women who want to talk to you.

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But then we didn't do the recruitment directly we relied on Northwestern mental health to do that, and what we found was that the key workers who were

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who were going to be doing the recruitment

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didn't do it particularly.

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I mean staffing changes, of course, things like that, but also I think they were just really reluctant to bring it up with potential participants.

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Yeah.

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thank you. Just a very short question to regarding the the method and the recruitment. You said you talk with 18 women. Is that right? Oh, no. 11 interviews, 11 interviews. Okay? And all of those 11 women had such experiences. So do you have a rough estimation about what is the frequency.

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and why is that? And why is that a theoretical saturation, or how does it come that all of those women had such experiences. It was so. Going through Northwestern mental health.

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there were going to be women approached where there had been a record of something having happened. So it was a it was a purpose of sample sample.

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As I said, we we had much greater take up through our peer to peer, so we were relying on. I lived Experience group to have that conversation with people. We don't have We don't have data on frequency or prevalence. It is collected. But it is not made. It's it's collected by reporting that goes through to the Department of Health. They do not make that available. Yeah.

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But anyway, these were just the numbers who are officially exactly. Those with her. A report has been, yeah. And we know that some women are just yeah, exactly. They do not say anything. That's right. Yeah, thank you very much again for your very interesting presentation. And now I move to the second at Amadsaurus, and it's about listening to women's

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account of psychiatric coercion. So it's

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it was very, very small. I just you can do it.

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Is this one.

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Okay?

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Excellent. Here.

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Okay, Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming Tuesday evening.

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So my name is Emma. But I'd really like to acknowledge the whole research team. So Scarlett Franks and Eva Bright Hart. and also Lucy Clifford, who is an artist we've been working with on the project, and I'll talk a bit more about that. You'll see Lucy's art across

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the slides today.

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So it's great to fall on from Juliet's presentation. Thank you.

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 I'm talking today about a very entrenched and long-standing injustice which is women's suffering

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and distress and despair

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turned into disorder and then made worse through institutional responses.

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And so this is a context where the possibilities for change, perhaps, can seem very limited, or perhaps impossible. It's a seemingly intractable problem, perhaps.

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But today I'm talking about a project where we've used co-design and creativity to attempt to locate some new opportunities for working towards meaningful social change within a social within a research process.

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I'd like to acknowledge that much of this research has been conducted on the unseeded lands of thegatical people of the Aurora nation, and particularly acknowledging the first nations. Women who have participated in the project who've identified the interlinked oppressions of colonisation and psychiatric violence.

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I'd like to honor the knowledge that they've shared with us and their ongoing daily acts of survival and resistance.

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So this project is about involuntary mental health treatment in the contemporary context. So very recent experiences and in concrete concrete terms.

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what we're talking about is got towards restraint, seclusion, rooms, security guards.

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forced treatment, confiscated belongings! Separation from children, stripping of rights and identity

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all in the name of care.

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And so we are apparently in an era of de-institutionalisation. But these practices continue, although there is a great deal of community ignorance and or complacency about them.

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So this project has been in part about documenting this harm and a process of truth telling for women.

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however, we've also really wanted to disrupt a simplistic harm story. and to search for the ways in which the many ways in which women resist psychiatric

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violence.

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And this is not in search of a kind of elusive and simplistic and problematic notion of resilience.

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 but rather we want to deeply challenge the claim that is so often made that there are no alternatives to these practices of psychiatric violence.

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because when we listen to women's knowledges from the margins and their resistance, we see that they are already imagining their rising and living out alternative understandings and approaches.

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So hence our interest in the possibilities offered by creativity to make space for new stories

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and to open up meaningful possibilities for change.

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So there are several aspects to the project. It's a participatory action research project that's been running for 2 years. Now

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we've completed a number of in-depth interviews.

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We have centred women's voices, but we've also included other voices as well, including mental health workers and related professionals and family members. So we have had over 80 participants, and nearly half of them are women with direct experiences of involuntary mental health treatment.

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you know, across. you know reasonable diversity in terms of women living in urban and rural and regional locations from the age of 20 to over 60 and diverse socioeconomic backgrounds.

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as well as in-depth interviews. We've conducted 16 action research groups.

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And we've engaged in creative research practices. So this has included co-designed research illustrations that you're seeing here with with a professional artist involved as well as workshops, where we have developed together different art that you will also see in a minute.

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 there's been an effort to create dialogue across groups among participants, including participants with different identities. So between worker participants and women women survivors.

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 and co-analysis has been something that we have

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and committed to hopefully in an embedded and ongoing way. So really trying to avoid, you know, sort of a single co-design meeting, but really trying to listen to what women are saying and informing each stage of the the research process.

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We've had lots of flexibility and choices. So women have been invited to participate in the ways that they want and to the extent that they want. also multiple dissemination pathways. including a website and a public exhibition to try to increase the impact and potential audience for the research. a research team is diverse. We have

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experts by education and experts by experience or survivors of so psychiatric cohesion on the research team.

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So we're all told, of course, through pervasive and persuasive mental health campaigns that we should seek help when distressed, and that help will be beneficial.

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our project has identified many harms that can come

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after encountering mental health system, and we've transformed some of these findings into visuals. in collaboration with the illustrator on the project trying to increase, I guess. Who can engage with the research findings, but also as a new approach to building knowledge, so trying to move beyond to the theoretical, because it can be quite easy to say, yes, there's a power imbalance between professionals, and and you know

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people on the receiving end, but actually trying to avoid that sort of abstract theorisation and asking people to engage with the emotional and embodied experience of the harm. As you can see here, the use of seclusion rooms and the gendered and racialised oppressions that occur in mental health settings.

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so the majority of women in the project are but prior to mental health involvement.

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are already survivors of gendered violence.

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But we have found that the treatment replicates those very same dynamics of gender violence. So, as Juliet said, the high proportion of male security guards and nurses and psychiatrists, lack of safety on mixed gender wards, and also the practices of restraint and forced and humiliating forms of treatment.

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Our project has highlighted the many ways in which treatment disrupts the life course across education, employment, housing, and more.

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It also disrupts relationships through the stigma and discrimination of an illness identity.

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Women described a a loss of confidence as a result of treatment. So we have quotes in the project. I didn't feel valued as a human being. My voice was taken away, and women described how it takes years and years to rebuild confidence and life after an admission.

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So this is a system that's meant to be supporting and caring for women. But it's making things worse. It's amplifying distress.

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We found that treatment also disrupts and undermines mothering, and does so in a number of ways. Women grieved the separation from their children.

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but also mental health treatment is often a trigger for child protection intervention. So then, women were finding themselves, having to prove their capacity to parent, so as not to lose their children, and navigating these 2 coercive systems at once women who were not to mothers, but wanted to be, were often told explicitly that it would be inappropriate for them to have children.

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so recovery is now a contested and problematic term it. It was an activist term. It's now a you know, it's been turned into a clinical term. More and more we've been using words such as just getting a better life.

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so our project has found that women often start to do much better outside of commerce, of mental health treatment, and often outside of the whole mental health system altogether.

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So, therefore, the call to just build more or better services is problematic. Women have told us that they want help, but not this kind of help.

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and they offered diverse perspectives on what would make a difference, or what has made a difference, including education, housing, freedom from violence, and for first nations women connection to country.

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So we followed on from the co-designed illustrations to a series of workshops that were co-facilitated by me, and also Scarlett Franks, who is a researcher and survivor of the psychiatric system.

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So women have created their own art to speak back to their experiences of injustice within the mental health system. and have called for the urgent need to end casserole mental health treatment

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in terms of the next step. It was very important for many of the women to start a public conversation. They said, not enough people know about this, and so we put on recently in Sydney a public exhibition.

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So women brought different views as to what they would like to share in the exhibition. For many it was about truth telling uncensored truth-telling, but for others it was about offering different aspects of their identity. You know the layers of who they are beyond, you know, their psychiatrist identity, and so wanting to show that I think you can see both in this piece.

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we made space for for these multiple perspectives and ideas. But what was common across the artworks, and there were 20 women who contributed was returning the gaze to the system. So it wasn't about sort of, you know a kind of voyeuristic look at, you know the internal experience of distress. For example, it was political

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and so I'm only sharing a few of the amazing outlook with you today, although we will have an online version of the exhibition eventually.

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And this is an installation which was created to engage again on an embodied and emotional level, to ask visitors to really think about. You know, what do you need in times of crisis or distress or suffering. and why do we offer something so different

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to those in the mental health system? And so there's a poem written by one of the women about what it is like on the Ward

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and we had a survey for visitors, and I think over 200 responses that we're still looking at, but really profound learning and impacts diverse responses for some. they said, I did not know this was happening in 2023.

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Why are we putting people in handcuffs. This is

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but for others. who had some lived experience and who came, they said, that never been to an exhibition like this before, and they feel seen.

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So this is an artwork I'd like to share, which I like a lot, because it was produced by a woman who said she didn't do, aunt, so I'm just going to read if I can find it. Her words that go alongside this. It was created in a group context.

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 so I am, woman. This piece is a spontaneous sketch created while while meeting and sharing stories with other women, with other women.

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as a person who doesn't do art. I made something while talking with everyone and thinking about my own experiences

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at the top. There are labels that have been used to describe me often by people in authority meeting other women. I see that many others are caught up in these stereotypes, too.

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People are not their addiction. They're not their diagnosis. They're not their trauma, and they're not just an abuse. Survivor.

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Words that I would use to describe myself and other women in the collective are crossed out, but you can still see them. Creative is not crossed out because no one can take that away from us, despite the ways have been put down and labelled.

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do you know how how much shit we could change with love and kindness? And so you can see here hopefully here through that, that the the collective process, you know, enabled consciousness raising and really politicizing mental health.

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So we were able to, through the collective and creative processes, move away from this idea that distresses illness like hate, women's experiences in the social context and gendered power relationships.

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Also, we're able to start to think outside of how we currently understand and respond to distress and imagine other ways.

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I'd just like to briefly share some research with mental health workers who've participated in this

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project. we have diverse perspectives that have been shared. Some have very clearly said that they are satisfied with the status quo, or that that it must be this way. but for others, as you can see here, they have expressed very heartfelt and concerns

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that in some ways really mirror the perspectives that have been shared by women survivors in the project, and we share these not to idealise the views of workers. Obviously they hold a lot more status and power than women in this project.

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but it is useful, we think, to highlight some of these moral injuries, and most of these Workers have left the mental health system, or at least a coercive mental health system by now, since we spoke to them. And we think that this can

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open up more possibilities because it's not just survivors who are talking about these harms. Perhaps we can, through these shared perspectives, destabilise the psychiatric project a little bit further and identify the ways in which psychiatric thinking and practices are harming us all. Perhaps.

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this work was created by a group of the workers in the project and I think it highlights for me.

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I think a lot of I'd like to just put forward that I think a lot of mental health research is reactive. it's responding to a perceived crisis which creates quite short-sighted reform efforts here, I think through this research method, which was slower and not really solution focused, if if you like. it has allowed these workers to make the links to patriarchy, to colonial ideologies and to neoliberalism.

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So this is a photo that shows you just a little bit what art space research actually looks like. It's a it's a devalued methodology. in the Academy. Because what is it? It's a group of women in the park

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doing out together? but also it's exciting and how it's transformative. potential, I believe. And maybe because we're not using the master's tools, the findings, perhaps less easily co-opted.

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so just briefly in terms of what we're learning.

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we are interested in the shared concerns that have been shared across groups, but also the importance of always acknowledging different social locations and power.

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but disrupting the kind of us in them notions that can exist as well.

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Creativity has offered additional knowledge and possibilities beyond text-based research. We believe

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 and also the other kind of great thing about an arts-based approach is that it's not really about sort of finding the truth. But it's actually, you know, engaging with multiple perspectives and and ambiguity.

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co-design has been a kind of ongoing process and not a single event, and with that has probably enriched the project quite substantially.

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we're interested in multiple forms of resistance and the resistance of women that has not always been well identified because it maybe doesn't look like going for a protest out on the street.

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but also that you know, the process of becoming de- psychiatrist is, you know, it takes time, and we might expect women to suddenly. Just understand psychiatry in a particular way, and that doesn't really identify how the power is working.

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But to end

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this project is about the need to decarcerate mental health. not just reform the system, but actually direct energy quite urgently towards alternatives.

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And you can see our website. Thanks very much.

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Thank you very much, Emma, for this interesting insight in this wonderful project

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is a question.

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Hi, so I'm actually a

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psychology student from the University of Guam. And this this project, first of all, is fantastic. It's it, this wonderful work that you're doing, and and part of the the critical, at least what we're getting taught and part of the one of the critical weaknesses of the current.

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A psychology, psychiatric mental health institution as an organization and as a concept is is the approach that the medical model takes

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and

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one of your art pieces ahead. I had a Red cross and was talking about how

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I am bipolar disorder, and I am. I'm I'm manic. And and the approach that we have taken for the last century and a third now has been that the the diagnosis becomes the person becomes the stigma, and and I see that the approach that you're taking, and I'm wondering if

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you had any thought along this process

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that that maybe the insight is the failing of the medical model

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is that we put the We. We put things into categories

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because the arts as as a concept, as as a human invention has always been the creativity and the adaptability and the applicability anywhere.

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So I'm I'm wondering if this sort of. I don't want to call it a new brand of therapy, because that's exactly what you're trying to avoid. But this this sort of attempt to as you're seeing. Decarcery. Mental health

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is is sort of the the appeal. I don't want to call it Bill, and no solution, because we'll never get one. But is the the next evolution in the way we view

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mental health as a, as an occupation, as the way we want to treat mental health services.

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Yeah, thanks. thanks for that

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question and and reflection. I think the great thing about using creative practices is that we are able to do some subversive, you know, responses to something like as you're talking about the the diagnostic diagnostic system. So the Dsm, it's a social construction. so we're able to kind of speak back to that. And you know, destabilise its kind of status

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as a, you know, supposedly legitimate and scientific form of knowledge when it's really just based on

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the constructions of the day in terms of what's normal or abnormal or acceptable or unacceptable kinds of

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behavior. I think certainly the medical model, you know. It needs to be critique and

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the ways in which people are dehumanized, you know, by diagnostic language. For example. I think probably some of the sort of attempts to develop sort of more recovery-focused language, for example, or even trauma-informed practices. They don't go far enough

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to really identify the violence that has been identified by participants in this project. and so I would say, yes, do that. But there's there's a lot more that needs to be done beyond maybe just changing our language.

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Thank you.

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Thanks very much. My name is Jeremy Dixon. And so yeah, it's really interesting. And I really like the use of art. I suppose I was wondering if you could tell us a bit more about the methods, really, because I suppose I was wondering, as you were saying it, whether it was you saw it more as a research project or an activist endeavor, or maybe a combination of the 2. So I wondered if you had sort of formal

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research questions in mind when you were going into the project, and also I was wondering about recruitment about

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what? What group of women you recruited?

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Yeah, so

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I suppose participatory action research is the attempt to combine research and activism. I see very much as as a research project. and you know we we had to research questions, but they did evolve. As a result of that. You know the time that we spent with women which has been over 2 years now. So what women said was important. You know, we we really brought that in.

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you know, and that changed sort of

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what was emphasized and and what we ended up doing. So. The public exhibition, for example, was just an idea that emerged as a result of what women wanted to do. But you know, we had a survey we've got, you know, articles. So it's still Council's research

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as well. Does that answer the

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the women's? What? What are women's experiences of the mental health system and the impacts of treatment? and particularly the agenda dimensions.

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 and

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yeah, we just had a a range of questions around how they understood the treatment and its impact

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across the off course.

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 recruitment wise. We started off with

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contacting consumer

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groups. But there was a lot of word of mouth

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and snowball recruitment as well as I have to say, workers, who? What were ours? Who really connected us to to people? Yeah.

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thank you. I have also a question, a practical one. By, I think it's a bit related to that. This project was a funded project.

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I mean, this is really great to get funding for such a project.

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the survivors, the women survivors, did they? How how did you pay them? So whether employed as research assistance or what? What was the practical thing of that. Yeah. So the survivor researchers are employed by the university as research assistance. and then we've also paid participants each time they've come

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 and the 10 at a workshop or an into this.

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Yes, funded research. And you know, we said we would develop co-designed

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guidelines, and we we have. Perhaps it wasn't what they thought we might produce. But that's okay.

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So it was, if I just to to understand right it. It was a per.

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They were paid per hour they spent in the project, or was it on a continuous basis of time? They they saw us? Yeah. So we didn't pay per hour, so they might just see us a short time or a longer time, and it was yet her time. Interesting. Thanks.

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good, thank you very much. We have to move to the third presentation, which I hope the presenter, the speaker, is here. Sapona.

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she

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no. Okay. Then we move to the fourth presentation, which is a virtual presentation. Michelle. We already talked so she should be here.

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Michelle Judd: Okay, thank you. everyone is.

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Michelle Judd: can you?

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We can. We cannot see the slides.

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Michelle Judd: Okay, you upload them again.

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You do. You did already.

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Michelle Judd: Yeah, I'm already it's everything. Can you hear me, will

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we here and see you? Very well, but the slides are not here. Okay, perfect. No, it's about my

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great thanks.

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Michelle Judd: So thank you very much. for being with me tonight. Well, yeah, Mexico. We are around almost 2 30 in the morning. Yeah, but thank you very much. and well, today I'm going to present to you my presentation that I entitled being a Woman within, on the next, 2 violins against women suffering from substance related, and I deeply stories in Mexico.

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Michelle Judd: So well this paper or this presentation, is a part of the ongoing research of my master's thesis work in January, studies at the national autonomous University in of Mexico

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Michelle Judd: on the objective of this paper is to expose experiences of women who have been inside the nexus

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Michelle Judd: specifically, their experience of violence within them, as well as an analysis of their relationship, that the fact that we in a woman

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Michelle Judd: and produces a particular experience for reasons of agenda within the annexes that make up their lives as women with system related and addictive, these servers here and after I will mention them as a S. Or a d. So for reasons of times I have decided to.

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Michelle Judd: I expose only 2 types of violence The symbolic and medical ones is the last one specifically in. It's a psychiatric. You mentioned that, women

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Michelle Judd: experience in these establishments so well the no graphic study that I conducted within on me. So

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Michelle Judd: on that this course, analysis allow us to claim what we're the internal subjective relation of this structure.

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Michelle Judd: how it was firm, and were the configurations and technologies of power that were used birthpled vertically towards these women.

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Michelle Judd: What were the walls that were stipulate for the women on the medical, so that they suffer so?

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Michelle Judd:  the structure of this presentation. We'll start by explaining, what the next. Those are.

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Michelle Judd: how to recover the experience of women with S or A. D, who have been in a nexus and then illustrate the experience of gender based violence against these women into particular cases that would lead us to a series of conclusions.

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Michelle Judd: and instead to follow for this research.

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Michelle Judd: So first of all, what is on the next

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Michelle Judd:  in Mexico and in other parts in Latin America, as well in some parts of the United States and Asia, according to United, that to open Safety foundation

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Michelle Judd: there has been a proliferation of facilities known as an nexus

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Michelle Judd: where rehabilitation. For

328
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Michelle Judd: however In these facilities

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Michelle Judd: there have been reports of various abuses against users who are not necessarily always people with S. Or A. D.

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Michelle Judd: Despite the fact that international organizations, such as the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, that may recommendation of how treatments for people with Sr. 80 should be

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Michelle Judd:  the next. You see, Mexico have been correct to us.

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Michelle Judd: Charter now have been established

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Michelle Judd: that are not regulated by this state? we're different types of violent. Are you against users as part of their therapeutic processes?

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Michelle Judd: So The truth is that in a country like Mexico, where

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Michelle Judd: for? He said that we're he's has characterized its direct policy.

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Michelle Judd: Treatment, for Srad has been relegated to several society.

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Michelle Judd: So this is one within the annexes that people in church are people who do, who don't have a medical license. who in many occasions for feed from the dependency syndrome of the users, and.

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Michelle Judd: of course, of the pain of the promise

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Michelle Judd: such. there are no official studies in Mexico on how many UN regulated establishments exist

340
00:57:47.160 --> 00:57:59.070
Michelle Judd: organization and different Mexican media have estimated that there are at least more or less 2,006 in the country.

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Michelle Judd: of which less than a quarter are regulated by coffee priests, which in Mexico is the

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Michelle Judd: functionating and operation.

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Michelle Judd: But Josie and June of the year Daniel National Commission on mental health and addiction was established. But there are still no concrete measures, measurable actions

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Michelle Judd: of these public policy that allows us to have data related to treatments for S or a

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Michelle Judd: so Therefore, the nexus continue, and will continue to operate on the Mexican State intervenes in its separation, or it can offer treatments that need international standards. that are accessible to people with Srid.

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Michelle Judd: So in addition to the block, I want us to think about the nexus from

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Michelle Judd: to conceptual characteristic, from medical sociology, from gender. So this feminism?

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Michelle Judd: Okay?

349
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Michelle Judd: First, oh. I don't know about you. Sorry. as a medical sociological concept a mix of our total institutions

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Michelle Judd: to the extent that they can find

351
00:59:27.500 --> 00:59:36.139
Michelle Judd: voluntarily or involuntarily, and illegally, people with S or A, or with all their characteristics.

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Michelle Judd: with, the supposed purpose of we have really tape them.

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Michelle Judd: I understand, mother.

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Michelle Judd: total institution from airwing governments, theoretical approach extending that this type of institutions centers all aspects of the daily life of the individuals

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Michelle Judd: in the same situation and condition.

356
01:00:01.110 --> 01:00:12.709
Michelle Judd: within the same place, on their Oriental sharing in their commitment routines and formally administrating material conditions

357
01:00:13.050 --> 01:00:29.280
Michelle Judd: in the nexus. It it is practice to punish inmates with violence at multiple labels as a way to a tone for the users body and to apply for set it measure to all relaxes in the future.

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Michelle Judd: In this sense, from the perspective of medical sociology, that nexus our institutions that seek to discipline and rehabilitate certain bodies in order to make them functional

359
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:50.800
Michelle Judd: on their double premise from feminists and gender studies.

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01:00:51.660 --> 01:00:59.320
Michelle Judd: we find in the nexus buttercall control devices that seek to domesticate and countering power

361
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:04.609
Michelle Judd: women through correction in search of a mythical community

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01:01:04.630 --> 01:01:13.720
Michelle Judd: that essentialize women as Bobby that are not allowed to consume assistance, and even less, of course it

363
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Michelle Judd: so

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Michelle Judd: how to recover experience with women with S. R. A. D. And we have here contribution from feminist and procession and perception. Phenomenology

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01:01:30.890 --> 01:01:41.489
Michelle Judd: so well. phenomenology has been used as a meteorological tool in the social science to understand the experience of people within a phenomenon.

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01:01:41.850 --> 01:01:48.060
Michelle Judd: however in this research, we propose to use phenomenology in a different way

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01:01:48.410 --> 01:01:55.069
Michelle Judd: as a pilot, but sorry I have some dyslexia

368
01:01:55.430 --> 01:01:56.510
Michelle Judd: as a

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01:01:56.750 --> 01:02:09.719
Michelle Judd: philosophical tradition that allows to build knowledge about the experience of women with the S or A. D. Who have been in re rehabilitation institutions in the metropolitan zone of the Valley of Mexico.

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Michelle Judd: Rather than adopting a phenomenological approach as a metal volcanic research, design This presentation seeks to explore how knowledge about the experience of these women

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Michelle Judd: is constructed from a feminist perspective from the perception of the researcher.

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Michelle Judd: The assumption that we can ontologically access. The experience of the algae of the object of knowledge is

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01:02:40.520 --> 01:02:46.960
Michelle Judd: by epistemologically distancing ourselves, and the object is challenged.

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01:02:48.180 --> 01:02:59.829
Michelle Judd: so phenomenology, e So research this sign seeks to to narrate the experience from the object itself

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Michelle Judd: without considerating the perspective of the one who seeks the to produce knowledge about the object.

376
01:03:07.810 --> 01:03:16.830
Michelle Judd: however this can lead to an illusion, to objectivity on essentialize the subject of knowledge

377
01:03:16.950 --> 01:03:18.900
Michelle Judd: and his knowledge

378
01:03:19.150 --> 01:03:30.139
Michelle Judd: so methods. So in in that interviews, the creation of categories are used to explain the experience. But these methods

379
01:03:30.470 --> 01:03:37.389
Michelle Judd: can lead to a simplification and essentialization of the of the of the or research.

380
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:42.939
Michelle Judd: So the key contributions and the phenomenology of perception

381
01:03:43.740 --> 01:03:58.909
Michelle Judd: is, well, I take Marla twenty's phenomenology of perceptions that focuses on the importance of the body as being in the world. on the perception of the body. In the reality.

382
01:03:59.160 --> 01:04:07.489
Michelle Judd: the body is not only an object of knowledge. but the very condition of knowledge.

383
01:04:07.740 --> 01:04:17.650
Michelle Judd: Each body has unique experience and feels in different ways leading to our relatives without definitive

384
01:04:18.160 --> 01:04:22.389
Michelle Judd: from the experience in feminist phenomenology.

385
01:04:22.910 --> 01:04:23.700
Michelle Judd: Well.

386
01:04:23.890 --> 01:04:33.009
Michelle Judd: in this other hand, families, phenomenology seeks to break with the separation between the object of their research

387
01:04:33.030 --> 01:04:40.870
Michelle Judd: on the one who seeks to know it. They argue that the construction of a feminist phenomenology

388
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:48.859
Michelle Judd: allow us to recount the subjective experience and experimental analysis

389
01:04:48.870 --> 01:04:57.480
Michelle Judd: that have been displaced by other approaches. It is recognized that all the knowledge is situated

390
01:04:57.550 --> 01:05:06.290
Michelle Judd: knowledge, on that there are no universal perspective without essentially saying the subject.

391
01:05:07.560 --> 01:05:19.779
Michelle Judd: in this context, the importance of the category of subjective experience to construct unknown androcentric knowledge is raised.

392
01:05:20.340 --> 01:05:35.000
Michelle Judd: It is argued that this category has been central in both Feminist philosophy and phenomenology. But androcentric phenomenology reproduces billions of

393
01:05:35.050 --> 01:05:39.329
Michelle Judd: associated with certain

394
01:05:39.970 --> 01:05:55.499
Michelle Judd: I'm sorry, historically privileged subjects. So in contrast families phenomenology allow us to understand the experience of women as subjects and producers of their own knowledge.

395
01:05:55.580 --> 01:06:02.839
Michelle Judd: analyzing the dynamics of powers. presents in the private and the corporeal.

396
01:06:03.310 --> 01:06:16.270
Michelle Judd: In summary These research seeks to understand the experience of women with software related and addictive disorders in relation to rehabilitation, and

397
01:06:16.430 --> 01:06:19.930
Michelle Judd: it focuses on a rating. This experience

398
01:06:19.950 --> 01:06:26.610
Michelle Judd: recognizes the importance of understanding how bodies and body this experience.

399
01:06:26.690 --> 01:06:32.960
Michelle Judd: how the researcher relates to this body in the construction of the knowledge.

400
01:06:33.380 --> 01:06:39.169
Michelle Judd: a topology that allows you thinking, feeling, and meaning together here is proposed

401
01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:50.240
Michelle Judd: so the experience of gender-based bio, and against women with S or a d in in Mexico.

402
01:06:51.620 --> 01:07:00.040
Michelle Judd: Why does gender mother? When we talk about violence? We think that it's within the next.

403
01:07:01.220 --> 01:07:14.700
Michelle Judd: as I mentioned earlier, Alexis, are Patrick called devices that allow the domestication of feminized body towards on the

404
01:07:15.900 --> 01:07:22.330
Michelle Judd: check in taking. Sorry taking that section the system as one that

405
01:07:22.420 --> 01:07:27.700
Michelle Judd: prioritize gender experience from reading of the bodies.

406
01:07:27.990 --> 01:07:34.460
Michelle Judd: putting at the center of the analysis the experience of women in this type of institution

407
01:07:34.640 --> 01:07:42.789
Michelle Judd: that will allow us to try new research that allows to understand the social inequality

408
01:07:43.040 --> 01:07:56.419
Michelle Judd: experienced by women and feminized voice we develop, we can think of alternative to exist in rehabilitation models. especially in Mexico. Another Latin American Conference.

409
01:07:56.470 --> 01:08:08.150
Michelle Judd: with different characteristics from the global North. where rehabilitation and social integration are thought from punitive and

410
01:08:08.330 --> 01:08:15.160
Michelle Judd: domestication of bodies towards a colonial and neoliberal and capitalist.

411
01:08:16.290 --> 01:08:30.500
Michelle Judd: So I will now present, some testimonies about different types of violence. Experience by different women in a in the valley of Mexico which will allow us to understand the importance of this study.

412
01:08:31.030 --> 01:08:38.569
Michelle Judd: So first, 9% here. a testimony of a symbolic violence.

413
01:08:39.730 --> 01:08:42.560
Michelle Judd: Here I present the testimony of loose.

414
01:08:42.750 --> 01:09:01.600
Michelle Judd: This account of our life is a clear example of the type of symbolic on physical Bo violence that it's in this type of facility, and the people's level is structure that is generated in the minds of these women who are submerged

415
01:09:01.770 --> 01:09:06.359
Michelle Judd: in the logic of control through their fear, installing them.

416
01:09:06.830 --> 01:09:17.420
Michelle Judd: of this type of facility based on a panopticon that operates inside and outside the nexus

417
01:09:18.090 --> 01:09:29.269
Michelle Judd: loose on constantly repeated that she intended to. So her mother. for looking here all against her will in various Alexis.

418
01:09:29.620 --> 01:09:32.799
Michelle Judd: by the time that I'm

419
01:09:33.010 --> 01:09:49.939
Michelle Judd: last interview her she was at least at 38 on nexus by the time. but well, at the same time. She thinks that is keeping from such a place with her in to trouble with her.

420
01:09:50.100 --> 01:10:05.340
Michelle Judd: So the testimony said, J. I used to think a lot about that. No. and I used to go out, and I used to go out of the next zoom, and I used to see my mother and I used to get high

421
01:10:05.510 --> 01:10:16.930
Michelle Judd: it, so they don't come to tell you that I'm back, and that I don't know what you're already seeing me with your eyes right, and I let myself be in that.

422
01:10:17.270 --> 01:10:33.309
Michelle Judd: and when Ily suspected they put me in the one like a bus. Something like that. And that was it. Well, when I see I'm already here yeah, several times. Now I tell you I have escaped from the other mixes.

423
01:10:33.370 --> 01:10:36.019
Michelle Judd: The truth is that I have escaped.

424
01:10:36.060 --> 01:10:45.649
Michelle Judd: I can go to Toluka because they are waiting for me right, because if I took almost cost of the next, so I mean we'd be at them if

425
01:10:46.100 --> 01:10:53.799
Michelle Judd: oh, Sir Joyce! And so you gave in must yes. then almost a whole, and accepting with me.

426
01:10:53.890 --> 01:11:07.889
Michelle Judd: So no, not anymore. No, this time I know this one no anymore. Right? They didn't take me to that an excel because the wife is the only of the next 2 works in a delegation.

427
01:11:08.120 --> 01:11:15.489
Michelle Judd: So you're seeing that because of the cameras they go in have located me. Wouldn't they have located 2 or 3 of us

428
01:11:15.660 --> 01:11:26.550
Michelle Judd: because there were 2 of us who organize everything? Well, there were about 4 of us, but well, I say that we were in the cameras right.

429
01:11:26.900 --> 01:11:34.359
Michelle Judd: I think, don't you? That they did go to a fire report be one day, or that they are just waiting for us to right.

430
01:11:35.410 --> 01:11:36.900
Michelle Judd: And I

431
01:11:37.050 --> 01:11:44.230
Michelle Judd: ask her. Well, they couldn't fire a report here, because it's not the conditions I mean a layout condition.

432
01:11:44.330 --> 01:12:09.070
Michelle Judd: and she back to me and say, I don't know. But I already send something. You know, I because they phone me. They start and phone from the next of their a good father from there send me a message that he urgently want to talk to me, I said, no, it doesn't sound right that he wants to talk to me because well, no, something must have.

433
01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:15.309
Michelle Judd: No, he told me. Don't come. I don't know. I don't know, because they are already looking for you. Right?

434
01:12:16.230 --> 01:12:36.590
Michelle Judd: So we have some practices from which the next service now are related to the physical violence inflicted to the intimates so the punishment that that inmates experience inside this type of organizations are even from the medieval times.

435
01:12:36.710 --> 01:12:45.400
Michelle Judd: in all of them one can 1 one can appreciate the aggravate of salt of the body, of the individuals.

436
01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:52.840
Michelle Judd: The punishment that is executed are illegal and go against international human rights.

437
01:12:53.530 --> 01:13:05.070
Michelle Judd:  then, we have another testimonial from Frida, from medical, yeah, specifically from psychiatrical one.

438
01:13:05.690 --> 01:13:12.619
Michelle Judd: well, there are several types of violent that the curriculum in the, in the nexus

439
01:13:12.710 --> 01:13:33.750
Michelle Judd: medical Violence as well as gender violence predominate in the daily life of the inmates. ever within the medical violence, since in the practice of oral crowding, love of hygiene, malnutrition, another you know mine. things.

440
01:13:33.900 --> 01:13:39.599
Michelle Judd: Failure of treatment, for with royal children, and

441
01:13:39.860 --> 01:13:47.430
Michelle Judd: there is a type that allows even greater power over the bodies of inmates. Psychiatric violence.

442
01:13:47.730 --> 01:13:56.730
Michelle Judd: a to of a priest each. Rehabilitation and addiction care. Clinic must have a help of feature

443
01:13:56.940 --> 01:14:06.689
Michelle Judd: who is responsible for for clinical cases. and who is accountable for medical practices within the facility.

444
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:15.210
Michelle Judd: however, it within the next it is come on for barriers psychiatry called brooks to be administrated.

445
01:14:15.270 --> 01:14:22.190
Michelle Judd: including within the next, Within the necessary

446
01:14:22.310 --> 01:14:28.450
Michelle Judd: control of the body, is fundamental to exercise of power

447
01:14:28.860 --> 01:14:38.829
Michelle Judd: freedom. Who has been in 2 such establishments related how different psychiatric works were administrated to her?

448
01:14:38.950 --> 01:14:40.979
Michelle Judd: by means of a T,

449
01:14:41.170 --> 01:14:51.140
Michelle Judd: yeah, which made here sleepy and didn't allow her to have lucidity over the her thoughts on it like a mother responses

450
01:14:51.250 --> 01:15:00.100
Michelle Judd: 3 levels of Toby Cloud in this establishment, they should do it in her body to control her and her. She wasn't aware of this.

451
01:15:01.210 --> 01:15:08.050
Michelle Judd: she told me, and what was my younger because I arrived very much like that, didn't I?

452
01:15:08.090 --> 01:15:15.099
Michelle Judd: And then that got motors there started to tell me. No, that's not through your fucking chicken here.

453
01:15:15.710 --> 01:15:29.060
Michelle Judd: and I answer her question her so when you say very so, is that like rebellious? And she said, Very release. And this and there is her to say to me.

454
01:15:35.190 --> 01:15:56.939
Michelle Judd: and with they approached me. I went on top of them right. They couldn't 3 against me, they couldn't, and they pulled me up and tied me up. I was almost always tied up the between meals. Since I didn't take the medicine, I said, no, I'm not crazy. I'm going to go crazy from her, neither not.

455
01:15:57.280 --> 01:16:08.499
Michelle Judd: And in the same T. They gave me. They part everything in it, and I ran it, and I feel like I was all DC, I was just sleeping there.

456
01:16:09.030 --> 01:16:17.960
Michelle Judd: I was like the all really high with that, and they gave me, and I don't know how much.

457
01:16:18.030 --> 01:16:34.250
Michelle Judd: and I don't know. Suddenly one day I was upstairs and there was a look at the door, but one of those times they told me to come up, didn't they? I made up of this test, and I could only see that 10 issues

458
01:16:34.430 --> 01:16:42.100
Michelle Judd: all right. This need us And then I said, my aunt. I know her, and I said, No, that's my own.

459
01:16:42.220 --> 01:16:47.429
Michelle Judd: and they put her in the office, and she said, No, she's not he.

460
01:16:47.570 --> 01:16:50.440
Michelle Judd: I don't know what I I don't know what.

461
01:16:50.890 --> 01:16:58.679
Michelle Judd: and I told you that she came with me, and they got off of that guard. Told me. No, you can get off.

462
01:16:58.980 --> 01:17:02.380
Michelle Judd: I don't know how I get here.

463
01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:14.399
Michelle Judd: And I told her for the mother I'm going to get out. When I got up and opened the door, and it was my aunt. Then she looked at me and said, Well, and she there!

464
01:17:14.510 --> 01:17:25.279
Michelle Judd: Well, she's starting crying, I told her. Get me out of the up here to whatever you can to get me out of here, because they are blogging me all the time.

465
01:17:25.480 --> 01:17:38.219
Michelle Judd: and then my own. So my face and told them, according to these is from we have, and look how they have here, with Max, from the ties that she was tied up, and so on

466
01:17:38.400 --> 01:17:57.129
Michelle Judd: and so on. Then my onset. No, I'm going to take, and I don't know what right. But I didn't want to say anything to my dad, because I know that my dad is one of those people who marks, and they don't get at them right a bunch of assholes and come and Getty with guns, and they don't.

467
01:17:57.140 --> 01:17:59.669
Michelle Judd: Who gets you

468
01:17:59.680 --> 01:18:10.660
Michelle Judd: to to get in, and they take me out what I didn't tell him right, because that couldn't get to get me into another mess.

469
01:18:11.410 --> 01:18:16.180
Michelle Judd: So in the conclusion from these presentations.

470
01:18:16.690 --> 01:18:24.880
Michelle Judd: first violin against women in the next 2 is unfortunately a common practice in the nexus

471
01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:52.760
Michelle Judd: analyzing this perspective this perspective from a feminist perspective from a phenomenological point of view, will allow us to understand that genesis of these violence in order to propose a specific actions that will allow us to think about public policies for the attention of system related disorders and effective resource in Mexican women.

472
01:18:53.460 --> 01:19:07.670
Michelle Judd: To begin with, we must, put a name to the illusion that criminality only satisfies the repression of crimes. If these were the case. there would be no places where the

473
01:19:07.830 --> 01:19:17.329
Michelle Judd: marginalized people are punished to discipline them in or to to achieve a search. Social orthopedics.

474
01:19:17.830 --> 01:19:27.189
Michelle Judd: That's it. My, it's dignitization that Steve revolts our own individuals with depends today is dangerous and worrisome.

475
01:19:27.270 --> 01:19:28.940
Michelle Judd: thank you very much.

476
01:19:35.010 --> 01:19:36.460
Thank you, Michelle.

477
01:19:38.820 --> 01:19:41.850
Are they questions to Michelle

478
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:09.769
Misha. I have a question in regard to the matter. How how many women have you interviewed, or with how many women have you?

479
01:20:09.920 --> 01:20:11.309
spoke.

480
01:20:12.150 --> 01:20:23.129
Michelle Judd: yeah. this research started from 2,017. And I'm like, like interviewing about

481
01:20:23.840 --> 01:20:28.660
Michelle Judd: 50 women

482
01:20:29.320 --> 01:20:30.850
Michelle Judd: here in Mexico.

483
01:20:30.970 --> 01:20:35.119
Alright, 50 50 was the 50 women. Okay.

484
01:20:36.620 --> 01:20:45.269
And how? How was the recruiting of these women? maybe I missed it in the presentation. But can you?

485
01:20:45.580 --> 01:20:47.320
Michelle Judd: No, Whoa!

486
01:20:47.610 --> 01:20:56.439
Michelle Judd: I started my present day about my ethnographic study in an yeah Mexico City.

487
01:20:57.050 --> 01:20:58.420
Michelle Judd: And

488
01:20:59.860 --> 01:21:01.630
Michelle Judd: I started to.

489
01:21:01.780 --> 01:21:12.390
Michelle Judd: Well, is it? What about a crazy situation? Because I was in a I don't in in a taxi and a in

490
01:21:12.580 --> 01:21:14.959
Michelle Judd: in a in public transport.

491
01:21:15.060 --> 01:21:22.789
Michelle Judd: When I start to to thinking loud about this situation. And when people that told me that

492
01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:30.230
Michelle Judd: I know a place where you can interview what you can film the people.

493
01:21:30.330 --> 01:21:32.010
Michelle Judd: But there is in

494
01:21:32.340 --> 01:21:35.210
Michelle Judd: dangerous place here at Mexico.

495
01:21:35.400 --> 01:21:41.910
Michelle Judd: And I said, Okay, I will be there and have some interviews. but

496
01:21:42.100 --> 01:21:47.329
Michelle Judd: I you start to know well, a place.

497
01:21:47.580 --> 01:21:58.770
Michelle Judd: very dangerous. Yeah. That that is an it's gonna start their interviews. So that was around 2,017,

498
01:21:58.880 --> 01:21:59.919
Michelle Judd: more or less.

499
01:22:01.110 --> 01:22:02.680
Thank you.

500
01:22:04.810 --> 01:22:07.720
Okay. And any other questions to Michelle here.

501
01:22:13.420 --> 01:22:18.110
Thank you, Michelle. that was an interesting talk.

502
01:22:18.140 --> 01:22:23.830
I I wondered how much, if at all, you were thinking about

503
01:22:24.230 --> 01:22:40.609
also. the addiction labels as as we talking about the the, the patriarchal violence in the in excess Actually the patriarch, or violence of of medicine and the medical labels.

504
01:22:40.630 --> 01:22:59.179
like it's it sounds like there's just a silence in and metaphorical or physical violence of women. and maybe the medical labels of addiction are a way of actually silencing those same women as well. Andre, if you thought about that.

505
01:23:00.450 --> 01:23:02.769
Michelle Judd: Yeah, that's right.

506
01:23:03.230 --> 01:23:11.370
Michelle Judd: is interesting, because here in Mexico our government they even mentioned

507
01:23:11.520 --> 01:23:18.209
Michelle Judd: like that in oh, here in Mexico, in our present

508
01:23:18.980 --> 01:23:22.240
administration

509
01:23:22.640 --> 01:23:26.300
Michelle Judd: he never mentioned like

510
01:23:26.700 --> 01:23:29.159
Michelle Judd: let like the label like that.

511
01:23:29.210 --> 01:23:39.000
Michelle Judd: So it's a kind of a secret from all the people, not even in the government of, but but also in the Academy.

512
01:23:39.050 --> 01:23:50.409
Michelle Judd: So it represents a stigmatization, a stigmatization of of the people with this condition. So so yeah, it's very interesting.

513
01:23:51.970 --> 01:23:52.850
Thank you.

514
01:23:55.770 --> 01:23:57.150
Other questions.

515
01:23:58.620 --> 01:24:02.909
Okay, thank you very much. Again, Michelle.

516
01:24:03.940 --> 01:24:06.580
And yeah,

517
01:24:07.970 --> 01:24:16.130
we only had 3 presentations. So we have a bit time, maybe questions to the other speakers. If there are any questions left.

518
01:24:16.500 --> 01:24:18.009
we had a few minutes

519
01:24:19.470 --> 01:24:21.390
comments.

520
01:24:22.940 --> 01:24:24.440
Okay, so

521
01:24:24.460 --> 01:24:28.909
again, thank you very much for coming, for joining, for discussing. And yeah.

522
01:24:29.190 --> 01:24:32.540
have a good time. Thank you.

523
01:24:40.120 --> 01:24:42.800
Thank you very much.

524
01:24:43.630 --> 01:24:49.049
Jeremy. Thank you very much. We have a business meeting on Thursday evening.

525
01:24:49.250 --> 01:25:10.679
7 30. Is that right in this room, and you are very warm. Welcome to join the business meeting of R. C. 49, which is sociology of mental health and illness would be great if you come, and afterwards we go for having a dinner together. So you were invited, and would be great if you could join. Thank you.

526
01:25:11.470 --> 01:25:12.230
Okay.

527
01:25:13.570 --> 01:25:14.799
Michelle Judd: thank you very much.