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Marius and his partner I think is online to please come you have the 15 min scandal please don't go beyond that

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Well, thank you very much. Somehow I this is a situation I had to think of this very famous blues brothers scene.

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There's 106 miles to Chicago. We have a tank full of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.

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Here we are at 8 30 in the morning for me it's half past midnight I haven't slept at all.

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I'm in a room without windows. An audience in presence of I think 2, maybe one. And try to make the best of this.

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And rather than Rather than give a very formal talk, I want to I want to talk about a bit what this paper actually is about now first of all I need to remark that quite oddly the 2 office named me Sultan.

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Simone who is not here and myself. We are not sociologist. Sultan is a historian working very much the theory of history and I am by training a political scientist, an international politics scholar.

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However, having worked at a faculty of sociology and with sociological and historical approaches on world politics. For a long time.

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And what got us together were quite simple. Automatically rather basic at big questions. Namely how to think about change.

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Times of what is usually called the andropacy and how can we relate change in various social and natural realms?

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Meaningfully together. Now basically discussions about the anthropocene very often argue for collapsing natural and social histories into one another, merging them.

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And there is of course no denying. That probably for the first time ever we find social human and natural histories entangled in such a dense fashion as is the case right now.

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However, there is much reason for keeping these things analytically separate at least to some degree we think and think quite thoroughly.

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About particularly the different temporalities that are involved. That I involved. In change in natural and social worlds.

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And We basically propose that this is to be done by studying Practices of periodization in both the natural and social worlds slash sciences.

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What do we mean by this and what do we try to achieve by this? I'll actually move very fast in this one.

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Some of you may know this at least partly. There is a geological time scale. There is actually even an official international commission on stratography that tries to formalize periods to yourological periods in earth system history.

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I haven't followed in the recent weeks allegedly they would want to come up with a formal proposal actually on the Enthropocene this year.

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I'm not sure whether they have completed this yet. But the fascinating thing about this, the fascinating thing about this is that in geology you seem to have a very, very clear, even formal understanding of what periods are.

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And you can see here in this more or less established thing. The different periods and sub periods we have and actually when we talk about the anthropocene we are talking about the smallest possible series or epoch name that comes after the Holocene.

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All however enmeshed. All however invested in larger-scale periods up to up to an Eon as it's called in Chronosstratography.

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Now of course Of course, this to a large degree although formalized is disputed. It's disputed regarding the exact boundaries.

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Both in time as well as geographically because not all of the earth is crossed. Seems to follow the same thing dynamics.

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In some of these respects, but it gives us a very nice sense. That we talk about the geological aspect of Earth system history.

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That the anthropocene is something that really is embedded in a larger system of periodization.

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Although This is a system of embedded linear periodization which might be distributed in detail. Now of course What we thought is Could you have something like that for for the human world or the social world that you need formalization of course the idea the idea of a commission of historians sitting down and agreeing on anything like this is utterly

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pizarre. That's for sure. But what we actually observe is that a lot of historiography but also social scientific research is a constant and ongoing debate about periodizations.

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But the question of what the relevant periodizations are. While in Chronos stratography, the exact location of these boundaries might be disputed in the social sciences history more generally.

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They are utterly disputed all the time. So what are relevant periods? What are relevant periods? About the debates of the long nineteenth century, about the debates of the long nineteenth century, the long nineteenth century, the long th century, the long th century, is the most relevant periodization, the one insinuated by the most relevant periodization, the one insinuated by still the prevalent

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structuring the one insinuated by still the prevalent structuring of academic departments in history of academic departments in history, at least in Western universities, between antiquity, of academic departments in history, at least in Western universities, at least in, at least in Western universities, between antiquity, the Middle Ages or medievalism and

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modernity. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of periodizations and then they also differ if you go into functionally specific areas if you look at political history, economic history, and so on and so on and so on and so on.

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There are so many diverging timelines in so many geographically diverse things that what we find is really Really amaze of of periodisations and there seems to be no hope at ever arriving at something even in a heuristic sense that would resemble a mock liquor.

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Understanding of periodizations. However, we think this must not necessarily be the case and we would propose that this is primarily a heuristic for the time being not else.

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And what we actually do is apply the lens, nothing more. The lens. Of systems theory perspective and actually ask about the relevant demarcation of systems.

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This is the great advantage that you can talk about natural and social systems in a very general sense. As being related and you can talk about them in the similar sense in that arguably both natural and social systems.

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Have and create their own temporalities. They are never fully synchronized. There is in a sense not history with a big age.

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There is a multiplicity of histories. And although our system histories. Relate to an idealized, not absolute, who idealized kind of world time.

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Each system has its own system-specific temporality, its own history, and it also produces accordingly its own periodizations.

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You can see that if you look for example at the political system. Which very often produces very different periodizations.

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From the economic systems or think about religious or other systems. Now, this all these these systems with their histories and temporalities they intersect.

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However, in order to write the history of wealth society in the broad sense as the history of these intersecting histories of systems.

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And meaning social and natural systems. Requires to empirically study them. Periodizations are not something that the historian or the social scientist or for that method the geologists in a sense bestows on something that is out there.

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Although that is in a sense part of the process. However, it is really important to see Which periodisations are in use?

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So have a look at the political system and see which period Iations are the most relevant. The distinction between Medieval, in feudalism or modern forms of political organization, how are they used?

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How are they referred to in what in what kind of system seems to be the in particular crux of the matter and in the end what we aim to arrive at is a kind of theory of poly periodization.

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So in the end the idea is that one can in an idealized fashion arrive at such a map as we had earlier on.

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Geologists, also for social systems. That would clearly map in probably far more chaotic and complex way, different periodizations in relation to each other.

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Now why do we think that this is important? It intellectually and generally I think it is. To get a better understanding of how highly differentiated systems are related to each other.

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However, we think that it is also crucial for meaningfully relating social and natural systems histories to one another.

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There is a distinct tendency to use that label of the Anthropocene to in a sense, throw everything into a huge melting pot.

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And declare this. Change here, geological change from the Holocene to the anthropocene.

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To be one in the same for social systems. On the planet and we think that this is probably overdoing it in terms of simplification and to really probably understand what such a transition means for social systems we have to look at the relevant periodizations that social systems themselves use.

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And. Might you even some social systems themselves might now refer to the Anthropocene as a relevant periodisation for themselves.

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But then it is also important that it is also important to really inquire, yes. But in the context of which periodisation.

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If we talk about the enthalpy scene in the political system, what do you mean by this?

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Is this really a change that works on the the time magnitude as the geological transition from the Holocene to the Ethropocene, as the geological transition from the Holocene to the Ethropocene, it usually does not.

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The transition to the anthropocene. it's usually not related to something on the time scale on this time scale but a much much larger one so in a sense this is a heuristic arguing for using a systems few talking about relating natural and social systems histories to one another in terms of Holy

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periodizations. And it is a heuristic for meaningfully, hopefully talking about.

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Change in history and society in a related fashion. Thanks.

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Can we check if Jerry is here?

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Judy, are you online?

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He's in. So.

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Okay, so he's not. So, yeah, it's your time now. You have 15 min.

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3 min before I tell you, okay?

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To share screen.

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Okay, welcome. Let me.

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But another participant is still sharing.

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No, it's short term. You are the one who was not here.

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I cannot share. I press share screen online.

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We are trying to help with it from here. Wait a second.

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I'm fine. I have a question for Matti actually. Not

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You wait because we have we are leaving all the questions for the end

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Perfect. Perfect.

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Yeah, keep saying you cannot start screen share while the other participant is sharing.

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Yeah, I'm trying. We've never sucked in church. Yeah, Yeah.

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Good day to you all. This California, the day before because we are late shift.

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In the afternoon. The A quick overview. Let me see here on this table.

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The period 2023, 2,000. And take into account.

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Do you United States share of global GDP was 21% in 2021. It is now 12.4%.

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Sure, 18% ACR share is 39% the G 7 30.7% the bricks show you one and a half percent reading the bricks is no larger than the, G 7.

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If we combine this with the idea that the United States now wants to through geopolitics.

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Security measures take over the geo-economics of of the world that got China out of the largest world trade links that it has established through Belgium Road and many other initiatives.

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By forming the US forms the Indo-pacific, orcas and so forth.

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And the global south. Much of Asia, I see on any European Union stand back or post this.

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Then these data shed a certain light on this. We go a little bit further and try to give an overview.

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What has changed? What has not changed? First column, 1992,000, famous unipolar period from Unipolarity.

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2,02020 multi-polarity 2020 through like likewise. Ninety- was a period of How doonic ascent.

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Done a period of decline, war on data and so on and our period of the United States versus China.

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Liberal democracy was triumphant in the nineties. No, pragmatism. And also sovereignty, data sovereignty and processes like reassuring and from a wider point of view let us know that we have de-industrialization in coordinated market economies with a safety net like

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in most of Europe. At the otherization without the safety net in liberal market economies. Look at finance we have the a combination in the nineties of the IMF and the Paris club of donors.

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In the later period. Funding by China and about the road software, well, well, And now the emphasis in the current period, mostly China at the at the IMF, if you look at where African countries are borrowing and where Pakistan is is borrowing etc.

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The period of the was in the consensus the nineties produced total lost years for many developing countries. The subsequent period gives us the breaks.

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Belgium Road, Asia infrastructure, investment bank. New development bank, this period we see in advanced economies.

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Right the rise of right big populism at bunker nationalism. The look at Britannia, Britain, in the nineties.

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Then we have Brexit. And the TORY impossible various faces. We have in the nineties. America, the combination, the United States in China.

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Then the pay for tuasia strategic competition and now more antagonistic. And approach. We see that.

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The United States was either retreated the background the post the American world was the title of a book and now via the Ukraine and NATO.

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It is making a comeback. If we look at, the nineties atlantic ideas were prominent and dominant in the next period, Pacific ideas and the Asia Pacific, combination, very important.

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So now we have a period of both. Whole organization and a conjunction of both wide and narrow models.

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If we look at a wider view, we see overall Cool. Growing inequality in all 3 periods.

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65 billion dollars, the world. The wealth of the world then 8 billionaires 2017 then 1% of the rich

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Here is another overview. I hesitate going over this. In all these.

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Kind of detail but I'm telling you right this table of is clearly visible.

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This table of 20 for century trends. 1980 to a thousand and then 20 first century in trade and finance.

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I just do the second column, a growing East South, trade. And the Asian trade Pacts are rising.

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The tendencies towards the multi currency world and the bricks beating in August. The discussion or alternative current things.

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To trade in alternative to the US dollar and the rise of financial circuits outside of the West.

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Is gaining ground. Asia is the top destination of foreign in in investment in contrast to previously in the United States.

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So from various quarters are in the lead. And, in a recent period, the financial territories, hatch funds and also private private capital are in the lead.

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Look at institutions. Multilateralism continues without the United States. Stakeholder capitalism is gaining ground.

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One motive is we are all. Asians now.

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Various bonds, the tide, the bricks, etc. Are a prominent in 2023 19 more countries want to join by the bricks Saudi Arabia wants to join the SEO Shanghai Cooperation Organization.

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Hey look at, in the 20 first century, Eurasian cooperation is gaining ground.

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Russia has been weak in the war. The United States is in the situation of overstretch.

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Then look at any quality. Be more the north, the global north and emerging markets is decreasing with inequality in the emerging market is increasing.

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Well, here is an overview of, faces in the rise of emerging economies.

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A boom face.

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2,000, 2,009, a crash face. 2,008, 20, a 12 and then a stimulus.

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Face. And then we have for stormy weather that we have 2016, Brexit and Trump.

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While the the China back, RCED, is in the rise. In 2022 we see about the COVID period a big Blake in 2022.

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The Ukraine war and coming to the foreground of NATO with the cost of energy and food and a strong dollar at interest rates.

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The bringing people back to the IMF every session looming. So this is a brief overview.

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The I'm not sure where I am in terms of time. Elisa, would you tell me please?

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Maybe lifetime is up.

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You are on mine. You see You have 4 meters.

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Yeah, you have 4 and a half minutes to conclude.

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Sorry Oh, I would love to surrender my time and respond to questions because this is just a quick overview folks.

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I will respond to 2 questions later and greetings to you all. Jeffrey, Lynn, and others.

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Thanks.

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Thank you very much. We have you for discussions there. So I don't think Clayton is online.

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Well, we have 2 men who into the future. That's good. Some of them did not open, but we have open windows here and I call now Catiara.

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This is good.

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Gotcha.

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This is Yes. No, the next week. Please. Yes.

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To a spicy.

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This way. Okay. So good morning. Are we going?

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Neoliberalism, the transformation of capitalism we have undergone, did not involve change only to the economic infrastructure but brought with it a new model of society and of the subject.

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I set of presentations and values that turn into robust social ideals. Thus as has been discussed. Neoliberalism cannot be read as meaning the suppression of morality.

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But as fostering a new morality. A new social morality that promotes, promotes the politician by giving prominence to anecdotation by giving prominence to an economic patient of society that legitimizes the perspective that places the individual rather than collective structures at the center and that aspires to understand

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and moral society based on these principles. Most of the literature on the effects of neoliberalism on air.

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On individuals on social mortality has painted a bleak picture of the present and the future. In contrast, I would like to argue here that these effects have a much more ambivalent character.

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Paradoxically as it may sound they can be seen but as both hopeful and worrisome. I want to argue that this is based in 2 main findings on my of my research.

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One.

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That there is no Such a thing as a coherent and compact nioliberal individual or subjectivity.

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And 2, that there is a reservoir of desire for change in society. My argument in this presentation is based on a 20 year research agenda on the impact of a structural transformations on individuals and social tiles in Chile.

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And in ongoing research on an ongoing research project on moral universes. As you know, Chile was called us.

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As known as the first laboratory of neoliberalism and maybe one of the radical and models of layer liberalism in the world.

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But since I do not have the time to explain each of my study, I will only refer to 2 of the books in which this results have been discussed in theft.

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So let's start with, the discussion of my fondness about the neoliberal individual.

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Following Bordeaux and Foucault. Much of the literature on the effects of Nioliberalism starts with the idea that its success depends on individuals and ignorance to it.

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Which while neither reflexes nor conscious is the result of the internalizing or adopting its constraints and values.

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A hemonic neoliberal individual or subject is supposed to be the outcome of these processes. Where we short sorts show that the case of Chile does not support this assumption.

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In most cases, the prevailing conception was not one of adherence but rather of the de facto imposition of what study participants called the system.

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With the spread of the neoliberal model and its normative idea. Powerful critics of it.

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Emerged that are linked to significant moral tensions. Indeed, we have detected a profuse moral criticism of the system coming from individuals from very different social and political backgrounds.

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Since mid 2,000 and on this had in fact become a dominant social interpretation even among those who had reasons to defend the economic model.

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As for the moral criticisms. Of the model before main critics are that it boosts competition demands that appear as competition, demands that appearances be kept up, feeds consumerism and injects materialism in society.

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Competitions pushes one to be abusive and predatory so people that that participate in our studies.

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This criticisms fit within a vision of society as a constant battle of power. The excessive demand to keep up appearances is evidence of the spread of social pretension and his feel for enough authenticity.

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Consumerism for its part appears as responsible for having commercialized social relations and emptied people of their moral sense.

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It disturbs priorities and leads to feeling of emptiness and spiritual impoverishment. As a small trader from popular sectors told us in Chile, people are very contaminated with the issue of consumerism.

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They live to work and to consume. Finally, materialism. And the rule of money. In the finding social value.

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This excludes principles of spirituality. No economic considering and non economic considerations and above all the ethical dimension of relationships with others.

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The words of an engineer are graphic. We are traitors, we are all scoundrels.

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We are all mules and we all go for the money, nothing else. Like a bunch of pirates and mercenaries.

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Nothing more. An important fact related to the existence of this critique is that in the case of Chile as in other Latin American countries and I think it.

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Many other countries in other regions. The transformation of the economic social model was accompanied by another important structural processes.

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The pressure for social democratization. The democratization of social relations. This pressure to the democratization of social relations meant women, children, adults, Brought with it new moral ideas.

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As well as new ideas about the individual and what he or she can expect from society. This is extremely important in societies that have like chili and Latin American societies historically had rigid hierarchical and vertical social relations.

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The impact of the pressure to Democrat's ties. Democratize social relations magnified individuals perceptions of abuse, injustice or privilege and contributed to the rhetoric of the critique of society.

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Nevertheless, while moral criticism featured constantly in the discourse of individuals, this nut did not necessarily imply an abandonment of practices that indeed reflected what was so bitterly criticized.

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The weight of their knowledge of the logics governing social life is an important part of the explanation for this.

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What interviews felt able to express.

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These criticisms, they understood that there was no way out and that note compliant would be too costly for their survival or interests.

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While the normative ideas that spread during these decades were powerful rhetorical tools to legitimize criticism.

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They were too weak to fulfill their function of inspiring individual acts. And under the win of neoliberal moral ideas.

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Series of different moral contradictions emerged when the very practices that individuals felt compelled to Adopt.

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To competitive, materialistic, etc. Clashed with a social and convivial values that they consider important.

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These contradictions persistently distanced individuals from their ideal selves, preventing them from being the kind of person they feel they should be.

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Moral suffering more at pragmatism or moral indifference can be found as different outcomes of the latter.

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Thus my work shows

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That there is no coherent and compact neoliberal subject nor an hemonic reconciled and pacified neoliberal subjectivity.

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So to my second. Akerman. Now let's, that is the existence of a reservoir of the sire for change in society.

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My research work has also showed that the most important effect of Chileas of Chile's journey in recent decades has been the generation of a secret of the attachment.

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This secret entails 4 components. Excessiveness, disenchantment, irritation and finally detachment.

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The attachment is to be seen as the final component of the secret. Detachment is associated with a loosening of the links that being asked to society and the common life and with a loss of synchronization with a customary relational modalities and mechanisms that make social coexistence possible.

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It is an individual solution to protect oneself and respond to the harness.

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Of social life. Detachment does not correspond to the situation of moral anarchy described by Buchanan.

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It does not imply a disregard for others. But what characterized this others that are not disregard is that they belong to proximity groups.

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The attachment implies a kind of retreatment but by no means involves the complete abandonment of society that this author that Oh, like, Sorry.

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Like Merton, consider affinity to a kind of this response like retreatment. The attachment crucially is an active current in society that cuts across all social groups.

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It has several Mobilities as we have found in our recent study. Refugee.

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New start, operand adherence and adversarial alternatives. Refugee seekers aim to protect themselves from the coercion of a system that pushes them to their physical or mental brink or to shelter from the irritation of social relationships.

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But they also seek to avoid moral contradiction. What they hoped to achieve is what many interviews consider their most important goal, tranquillity.

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The most frequent meaning to them of happiness. New starters also seek protection from the system, but this is not conceived as a mere blanket.

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But his thought was of off as integral to the construction of other worlds and actively involving other subjects. It's key contact is the transformation of lifestyles.

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This modality puts the potential for changing its centre. Opparent atarians have no exit strategy.

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In this case, it is more about permanence. It is a case of staying and doing what needs to be done for which one must know very well how things work and take advantage of all the opportunities that come one's way.

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Those who embrace aiversal alternatives incarnate the most terminated with our world from the common world.

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And a fundamental questioning of the principle of social coexistence. Defiance and contempt to authority. And the adversarial construction of alternative spaces is to be found.

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In a way that it entails a displacement towards emergence, building new narrative worlds or for the very center of society.

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I do not have the time to examine thoroughly each of them, but I would just like to stress that all 4 modalities are of course erosive in so far as they Please.

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People imaginatively outside of society. They that is outside a center. Indeed, the expectations about future are to exit the system.

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Dreams or plants to go to the countryside or to the south, for example. Far from the system.

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This contributes to the virtual absence of an idea of the common that is recognised for its complexity and diversity.

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This is of course highly risky. But at the same time, The evidence the profound feeling that traverses society that social life as we know it nowadays must change.

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They reflect and express an express a profound moral discount discontent with the society they live on. Individuals recognise Across the world, the limits on coast for their own lives of the economic, social and relational model does has governed them for the past several decades and seek for new pasts and models.

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Thus our findings show that there is no compact

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Yeah, and. On the one side that there is no company or liberal individual or subjectivity but also that there is a reservoir of desires for change.

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Shoot this. Make us definitely optimistic about the future now. I will find this have also shown that for now this is a volatile force that can be channelled in very different ways.

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It is a force open to political translation. Be democratic, populist or authoritarian. So we are facing a moment that entails a high degree of uncertainty regarding the fate of the socio bond and the political board.

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But it is worth recalling, uncertainty is not equivalent to an already written destiny. Thank you.

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Thank you, Kya. Now I think it's time for my own

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Hello. That's what I said. That's a key.

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Hi. Before starting, I just would like to say that I feel very privileged to participate in the session today, especially as an early career researcher.

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So thank you very much for having me here. I am a PhD candidate in sociology at Fi University of Berlin and today I will present an extract of my doctoral dissertation which is still ongoing and so in a close dialogue with the idea of this session.

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I have named my paper sociology and the mappings of possible futures, aspirations and anticipations in the different diagnosis of Brazil's present.

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Firstly, just to give a little bit of context of this work, as I say in my abstract, my research is part of a broader interdisciplinary research program that discusses the temporalities of future in Latin America through the dynamics of aspirations and anticipations of several actors.

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This research program encompasses several institutions and also researchers at different stages of the academic career. General umbrella within this general idea of the temporalities of future.

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And within this research program then I developed my own research which discusses the building of societal self-understanding in context of crisis as processes that might reveal.

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Significant intersections between past, present and future hence affecting these dynamics of aspirations and anticipations within societies.

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And going more into the detail the idea of the research is to propose an analysis of sociological diagnosis of contemporary Brazil in order to understand the ways in which the crisis of the present are explained in such narratives in how they might be connected to imagined or produced pasts and futures in the country.

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So, as you probably know, Brazil has faced a lot of different challenges the past decade and diverse social political transformations have aroused the interests of social scientists and also increased the demands for sociological explanations of the present.

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At least this is my argument. So from 2 from 2,013 to nowadays to 2,020, well, massive protests throughout the country.

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I cooked the impeachment of a president that perhaps a few years earlier would have been unthinkable social rights setbacks, a very tough economic recession.

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A complex and for some a predatory judicial activism. Well, the election of the far right to the highest office of the executive power is strengthening and its capitalisation to name just a few critical events have placed the president present at the center of both public and intellectual concerns in the country.

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And in this context, I argue, different narratives of time diagnosis based on different representations of its past.

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Present and future have been produced. Also, in this scenario, the idea of crisis seems to become a leading category and the notion that the present or something is in crisis and change is needed appears as a common or as a shared feeling among intellectuals and also.

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In the public debate in the country in general. And here I have added some quotes from recent publications in Brazil just to illustrate a little bit this point that I'm making.

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So first of all, we have Alien Ebrom in the book, Brazi, Consuterji Huinas would be Brazil builder of ruins.

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That says post 2,013 Brazil is a fragmented country it was not the crown polyphonic by definition that fragmented Brazil.

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The crowd expressed what was already being just stated in the days by the confluence of several crises.

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One of them, the disbelief in the capacity of the democracy to improve people's complete lives.

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Then we also have here at Leah Schwarzschild's in Sobrio, TORRI TARIES MOVES later on Brazilian authoritarianism that says We live today moments in which the political, social, cultural and economic crisis seems capable of reversing consolidated achievements based on

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reactionary agendas that are not committed to equity. Finally, here we also have another quote from this one from Rodrigo Nunis in the book Due Transfer Cheezing from trends to vertigo.

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That says that the last 15 years have been a period in which the unthinkable has not stopped happening and the extreme right has known better than anyone else to use the many crisis of the present to bring the unspeakable to the center of public debate and to make the inconceivable are commonplace.

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So, having all of these in mind then my proposal for today is to tentatively try to play with the following questions.

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In what way is the present constructed and explained in sociological analysis of contemporary Brazil? Which paths are mobilized in the narratives concerning each crisis?

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And how do such diagnosis discursive and map possible futures in the country? And I would like to focus here in 3 books which discuss the intensification of far right wing forces in the country having both Bolsonaro as a political figure and bothunnerism as a social phenomenon in the center of analysis.

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And these books they are a sample of the broader research corpus that I am working with which is made of more or less 20 books.

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Published between 2,018 and 2,023. So first we have a book which is called In Portuguese, I will translate more or less as tomorrow will be bigger what happened to Brazil and possible escape routes from the current crisis which I would translate more or less as tomorrow will be bigger what happened to Brazil and possible escape routes from the current crisis which was published in 2

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1,000 And the title of this book is very interesting because it brings us back precisely to 10 years ago to 2,013 when many people that were protesting throughout the country would echo this saying that tomorrow will be bigger or Second, we have the book, The Was and Narrow Paradox, the public sphere and right wing counter

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publicity in contemporary Brazil, which was written by 3 authors from the social sciences, Camila Hasha, Istarsolanu and Jonas Madeirus.

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Published in English in 2,021. The title here calls attention to the fact that there is something paradoxical in the phenomenon of Bolsonarism, especially in what concerns its anti-systemic discourse.

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And finally, we have the Mokasin Hesku, Vinci Disease, Aububra Zuoji, democracy at risk, 22 essays on Brazil today, which is a collection of essays written by different scholars in the country shortly after the election of Bolsonaro.

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So it was written right like right in the heat of the moment right after the elections and published in the beginning of 2,019.

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So, all of these 3 books They have similar goals in that they try to interpret the recent social political history of Brazil, whereas also looking at the future, but they differ a little bit in the way that they present this history.

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So for instance, Pioneer's Machado book presents the in here I quote profound transformation that the country has undergone in recent times.

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Through the metaphor of the theatre with a prelude 3 acts in a final reckon.

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It narrative starts by discussing the social political facts of the financial crisis of 2,007, 2,008, globally and in Brazil the 2,013 protests in Finishes with Bolsonaro's elections and perspectives for the future in Brazil.

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On the other hand, Hasha Solon when Madeira's books adopts a more classical division in 2 chapters.

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To debate and here I quote again the structural transformations in the Brazilian public sphere in historical perspective.

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So it's narrative starts with the emergence of a new right in Brazil in the beginning of the 2 thousands and ends with the discussion of both on Narrow's rise and the effects of his politics, especially in what they call the post bourgeois public sphere in Brazil that would have emerged in 1,900

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and 88 with our new constitution with our new social pact. In the collection of essays on its turn encompasses several narratives that try to answer the question concerning whether or not is President democracy at risk.

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So each altar contributes with their own interpretation concerning and here quoting the editors again. The profound reconfiguration of President politics and try also to think a little bit about the future.

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So. Thinking about the way about the question regarding the ways in which the present is constructed in such narratives, what I have noticed so far is that to all of them, or at least to most of them, the present being described is fundamentally different from the past.

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And it is qualified as something in collapse, as chaos as a period of catastrophe, conservatism as a regression, as a regression, something desolating, something distressing and so on.

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In all of these strong wards and apparent consensus towards the idea of a present in crisis have led me to the question of what such crisis in these narratives are actually about.

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And today I have come again to several different answers. So altars have highlighted in more general terms a political crisis and economic crisis or even the social crisis but also more specifically they may talk about the crisis of the Brazilian particism, a crisis of the public sphere, a public security crisis, crisis of representative democracy in the country, crisis

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of neoliberalism, also a crisis of subjectivities and even a crisis of self-worth.

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Well, at the same time that this present is presented as something new in such narratives, there are also continuities that are identified and mobilized in the effort of understanding.

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Brazil's social political moment. So meaningful examples would be Brazil's colonial history, its authoritarian legacies.

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Structural inequalities that would never overcome. And the lack of a certain memory concerning the past of the country and so on.

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Still, it is my argument that the wave given to a specific events to contingencies or to conjunctural or and structural aspects or to what is continues and to what is disruptive.

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Varies greatly and the relationship between these and analytical dimensions does not seem to be established to be solved at all.

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Not only among these different readings but also within each narrative.

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And so this feature this character that we can see both as multiplicity and as fragmentation which is another discussion so that is to say this plurality has also given rise to different views regarding the future.

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So coming to the end of this presentation, I would like to present the provisional map of the futures produced by the Brazilian narratives of time diagnosis that I am looking at.

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So we have on the one hand images of what the future might be. And here we can see a general idea that the present somehow threatens the future.

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Right? So we have the future might be authoritarian. The future might be of worse crisis. The future might be of setbacks.

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And on the other hand, however, we can also find in these readings futures that are less defined, which I have summarized here as first.

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The future is open. The future is disputable. The future is made of hope. I have added here some quotations.

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I cannot read them because of time, but it's just to exemplify each of these claims.

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So taking all of this into account, I would have just a few final observations that this stage of the research.

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The first is that these diagnosis, they present different ways of engaging with or relating to the future. This sentence structure let's say that I have arrived at namely that the future might be of X and X meaning some kind of threat.

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But the future is also Z in Z meaning openness or known definition. Is somehow the idea that the future is not only imagined is also made.

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And lastly, also the observation that the discourse of crisis might limit emergent futures, but it does not necessarily prevent prefigurative linkages with the future with dialogues with the literature that I've been working on.

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This would be, I would have, I don't think I have the time to talk about the following steps of the research but we can talk about it later.

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I guess that's it for today. Thank you.

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Thank you very much.

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As psychosocial mechanisms to structural mechanisms and demands.

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And Marianne, of course I share many concerns with you. I am Brazilian. Now II was a curious why did you select books that are semi- Academic semi not academics?

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And I think this reflects some of the Brazilian atmosphere. In a way some of the Brazilian elites.

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And part of our crisis now. Is the fact that our our hopeful times were times of extreme elitism.

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Intellectuals have a critical role, they have more they used to have models to better everything. We had Fernando Heicardo's who was first president of ISA and then president of of ISA and then president of Brazil with the first president of Brazil with a very academic approach that he found out of Brazil with a very academic approach that he found out

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was not walkable once he took power. And then president of Brazil with a very academic approach that he found out was not walkable once he took power.

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But anyway, this idea that the very system, the democratic system opened windows for everybody. Created a situation where the I would say the 90% of Brazil woke up.

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In the 10% who used to have control and to have projects for the future felt kind of perplexed.

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The triumph of the Labor Party coincides with this moment. I think they We have a period of a lot of progress but we kind of woke up A whole amount of people desires interest that were not contemplated in previous politics.

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Before Brazil was always running in terms of the general interest. No one in the Congress could dare to say I represent this or that.

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Everybody represented Brazil as a whole. Now you have fragmentation in fragmentation of course is the what we have now one sat and that's it.

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I'm sorry they've taken too long. I better open the floor to discussions and you have time to answer my comments later.

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May I ask a question, Elisa?

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Yes, let's give the people given up the privilege of being the first to put questions. Okay.

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Mariana, first my greetings to serve your costa. Second, my question, and my dear, what about Lula?

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Isn't that a great or a considerable rise of hope. And optimism and if I may a similar question to about Chile the well the double turn of a constant new constitution being rejected.

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The still new progressive government being in place and of course that is a learning process but isn't that to the source of optimism if I may continue.

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About new liberalism. May I add that even the United States is home country mayor liberalism represented originally putting the poorest states such as Mississippi, nobody's here now.

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As, the national model. IE. Actually plantation economics has the new standard and neoliberalism done in very short means capitalism without labour rights in which opportunism rules and we strip the ideology that it's wonderful because we know it is.

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So that we have. Plantation economics, but in a in a modern in a modern form and that what you are talking about the comeback of the social and the pressure for social did democratic organization is an enormous and very hopeful, very positive comeback.

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Both the social rebalancing, the situation that.

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Please, please, John, can you wrap up for that to hear the others chance to talk?

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Yeah, I have one question to, to, you too for your for your presentation. The periodization Mattias.

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In why or in what sense is it important? That's it.

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Thank you. Next question. Let's put together 3 questions and then. My name's Shaun Mcneilis from Swinburne University.

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Thank you for all those presentations. But I, it seems to me that in lots of the presentations and I'm particularly picking up Cadillas and Sultans.

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That that there is running together of a number of different questions and they're trying to answer them at the same time.

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So one of the questions it seems to me is What is the heuristic? That we are using to interpret the data.

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So, there's a lot of talk about the changes in society, but before you can talk about the changes in society.

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We need a heuristic and understanding of what it is that constitutes a society. Or in result sometimes.

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In your in your work around the universe. And what's going on there. We need a heuristic.

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We need an understanding of what it is that constitutes the universe. So it is, you know, it's the physics, chemistry, biology, all of those and then into the human.

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Human element. So we need a heuristic if we're going to First of all, grasp what the data is.

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And then secondly, to be able to trace what the changes are that are going on. So my question is then, I mean, that's a really, I think that's a quite difficult question to answer.

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Spontaneously. But my question is, what is it that constitutes a society? Right as as a heuristic and what is it that constitutes the universe?

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Okay, thank you. One more question and then I give for the opportunities to apply. Hi, Jego Thomas, Chinese University of Hong Kong.

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Kathy, I was wondering if you can elaborate a bit on how your theory of neoliberalism about neoliberalism might vary in terms of social class across different classes, what heterogeneities would you observe?

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Because at Lisa alluded to, individualism can be very expensive. Depending on what sort of individualism you want to exercise or engage in.

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And, and I think I'd be curious what would be the threshold kind of markers for being able to be less.

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Be able to resist some of these neoliberal pressures. Having college education, having a graduate degree, having a house on a mortgage having a house where you paid off a mortgage.

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And those sort of and also wealth, which I think in the presentation with Michelle Lamont and everyone else yesterday and the plenary session really was brought to life that if you have come from a family or you can live run free, you know, these sort of options.

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So I like you that discuss that a bit more and how that might qualify your theory. And also the role of mobility.

323
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Because I think if even if inequality is the same as more mobility, well then everyone might have more hope, they might move up, if not possibly down.

324
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:08.000
But yeah, so you could just talk a little bit about that. Thank you. OK, let me maybe we have a second round of questions and let people answer no.

325
01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:18.000
Please, quick questions so that others have chance to comment. But you have to come here.

326
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:19.000
Well, yes, a quick answer to surprisingly small questions. What constitutes a society in the new universe.

327
01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:31.000
What constitutes society in the new universe? What constitutes society in the new universe? The answers would be straightforward.

328
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For me, society is constituted society in the new universe. The answers would be straightforward. For me, society is constituted by communication full stuff.

329
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I'm in that tradition. What individuals do as individuals. As long as there is communication of some sort widely understood sense there is society.

330
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Fully aware that this is not the classical understanding of society being a normatively integrated maybe national society but society in a sense the larger system.

331
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Social system possible, which also means incidentally that quite probably we might at some point not too far away rich.

332
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A situation where definitely society is not a society in which only humans have a place but we reach that level of artificial general intelligence then that's part of society and not something that somehow comes to society from the outside.

333
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In terms of the universe. I also have a rather straightforward answer and I'm not going into cosmologies and and and physics and multivaruses and so on and so on but I would give a rather straightforward phenomenological answer in the sense of fossil.

334
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It's the world horizon. It's the world as horizon implied in meaning in the use of language.

335
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That's the universe for us. There is no other that is accessible in any sense. But these are very, very general questions.

336
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I'd love to talk about them more. This being 10 in the morning, these are all the questions.

337
01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:14.000
I'd love to talk more extensively about over a pint of beer, but not at this point of the day.

338
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But very quickly, maybe just maybe just maybe just an observation. Maybe just an observation on both the questions and the other contributions.

339
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Periodization. Is everywhere. And this is what simply makes it important. Everyone uses it in one way or the other and everyone opens up basically or invites.

340
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Debates about it. I mean, Young, very straightforwardly talking about periodisation. I'm mostly using 2 periods.

341
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Yeah, I think it was 81,982. 2,000 and from 2,000 onwards.

342
01:10:56.000 --> 01:11:10.000
Making the claim that these are 2 distinct significant periods of what? Of globalization. So he's periodising a process.

343
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Implying a very important claim that these are periodizations that work in the same way for the political system, the economic system, what do you have?

344
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A strong claim. But he's using that as a very central. Analytical device. something could also be said to Mariana in that respect.

345
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It's also about hear yourisations in the sense that she's looking at how in different contexts multiple temporalities and particularly anticipations of the future.

346
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Are built in. Which I would, is a fascinating subject because it's Forgive it, forgive me because it's rather marginal.

347
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Most systems, social systems, would argue have a very strong in build. Let's call it methodological presentism.

348
01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:19.000
But very particularly bad in looking for seeing their own future as social scientists are. I mean a futures oriented perspective is still marginal.

349
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And of course, I mean, there are huge debates and we just had this. We saw this in in the remark which John made.

350
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I mean, what is neoliberalism in terms of period of period when and with what does it start and with what does it end this is just a comment to show that I think that studying these periodizations who implies who uses them in what respect is important.

351
01:12:47.000 --> 01:13:01.000
But as important as it is to see how we as scientists use them it is also very important how important they are in terms of social semantics that I've built around them.

352
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Okay. One of tea.

353
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:17.000
Good.

354
01:13:17.000 --> 01:13:32.000
So thank you very much for all your questions. I am going to answer your question and your question together because Usually when we talk about individuals, it is thought to, you know.

355
01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:37.000
It is usually understood as we as a work about individuals, really from an individual point of view and a psychosocial point of view.

356
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But that's because I didn't have the time to explain what theoretically is behind. My work, which was the question.

357
01:13:53.000 --> 01:14:21.000
Be very, very quickly. I just want to say I work from the sociology of invalidation point of view that is a part of the sociology of the individual and sociology of intermediation tries to do and understands that social life and society can be understood in the way in which by departing from the way in which individuals confront social life

358
01:14:21.000 --> 01:14:39.000
because a structural Tribes, trials, structural defies. You have to build them inductively from the ways in which they appear in social life and decline in the ways in which they appear in social life and decline in different social life and decline in different social classes or because of different social criteria.

359
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So this is a very elastic ontology of the social and what we care for is how to build, to go to the structure from the individual and then go back from to the individual from the structural.

360
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So we are always taking into account and just presented a part of my work. But this part of the work explicitly was trying to discuss in in more in a moral perspective.

361
01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:30.000
What was going on, what happened with neoliberalism. And yes, when you when you when you try to discuss this this one thing there are 2 things that has to do with with Young has pointed out.

362
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That I think normally the discussion about neoliberalism, and I used to warn neoliberalism because The people I worked, the interviews use the word neoliberalism and then when you have to build it, of course, but they are using the world.

363
01:15:46.000 --> 01:16:16.000
This is a way to denote or to name the change of the economic model. But as long as they are not economists, they are naming something that they understand has a lot to do with how deeply their changed lives, their life changed, and how deeply their tools they had to confront social life, to get health, to give education

364
01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:26.000
for the Kindle to get a job changed. Okay, so just so Well, I'll just.

365
01:16:26.000 --> 01:16:37.000
I'll leave it there and so that's why social classes just a word and that's why of course social classes has a lot to do.

366
01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:50.000
We have made research about The difference with social classes and different supports and uncorages, etc. But maybe we could talk about that afterwards.

367
01:16:50.000 --> 01:17:01.000
Mariana, would you mind if I give a chance for another question because I'm afraid I want so please you have a question because I'm afraid I want so please you have you have a question you need the microphone Yeah.

368
01:17:01.000 --> 01:17:13.000
Yeah, thank you. Yes, also a question for Marianna. So maybe we could. Well, first of all, thank you all of you for your wonderful presentations.

369
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I have a question for the tree one present here for Mattias at the beginning. It's just a question about the periodic size.

370
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I think it's super interesting. And I wanted to ask you, if you think how the power domination of relations of power also influence in when to determine in which period did we live or which periods are terminating in history?

371
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And I ask that just. For example, in the case of What it's happening right now in Chile.

372
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I am from Chile. Because for several years we're talking about that we live in a period of transition from dictatorship to democracy.

373
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A but when or how for example the relations of power determinate we finish the transition to the democracy A and now we are in a democracy even when we are living with the hair of what happened during the dictatorship.

374
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And my question to Cadia, thank you for listening. It's not the first time I listen to you and also in Berlin.

375
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It's not the first time I listen to you and also in Berlin. And I am very interested about the Chilean contradictions because I feel that we are living in contradictory times when this urgency of change that you mentioned that can be translated in democratic change in public changing in authoritarian change and I think we are

376
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leaving all of them at the same time. So more or less what Do you think that according to this field word that you did with this several interviews.

377
01:19:03.000 --> 01:19:16.000
Why sometimes a person can choose to buy boat for democracy and for allitarianism in less than one year of terms of period.

378
01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:31.000
And the last question to Mariana, thank you so much. And I wanted to ask you because this crisis of living in crisis and how the crisis of living in crisis and how the present of living in crisis and how the present set the living in crisis and how the present set the future as you mentioned.

379
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I wanted to ask you also Because I feel that in Latin America, in Brazil and Syria at least, a this a Bolsonarism or also respond to a crisis of identity.

380
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For example, certain concert conservative groups that feel that their identity or their national identity of Brazil or or these traditions that they are filled threats by the left or the progressive movements.

381
01:20:01.000 --> 01:20:18.000
A they have to defend this but this crisis of identities like the national identity that comes also from the past not only the person so do you think that also the past that in the present has to be defended Great also defense of the future.

382
01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:27.000
Okay. Do we have more questions? Because in that case, I, okay, I collect 2 more and then I'll give time to all of you.

383
01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:34.000
Oh, okay. Please, let's, let's first hear the lead who is online.

384
01:20:34.000 --> 01:20:47.000
At, at, I'm, I have a question for Yan. Is do you think the bricks are still, is do you think the bricks are still a valid grouping or do you think that the bricks are still a valid grouping or do you think that the Asian groupings will overtake them in terms of

385
01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:50.000
power. And influence.

386
01:20:50.000 --> 01:20:56.000
Okay, so next question.

387
01:20:56.000 --> 01:21:04.000
It's just that. Yeah, I have a question for Money. Thank you so much for your interest.

388
01:21:04.000 --> 01:21:14.000
Reservation. Now we're talking about very specific variants in Brazilian history. Also, the individual worlds at the very specific moment.

389
01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:30.000
And you're talking about constructions of the future. May be elaborate on what you can learn from this specific case study about constructions of prizes in the future more generally.

390
01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:40.000
Okay, that is one more. Oh, yes, Jeremy's Confederation University. I've got a question for Katya. Wonderful.

391
01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:50.000
Thank you. That you would sense very interesting. You referred in a sense to the long history of neoliberalism in this instance.

392
01:21:50.000 --> 01:22:06.000
2 chili that can all be through. I'm wondering what the comparative approach might look like to individualisation and what what difference will it make to the framework?

393
01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:09.000
Findings and possibly methodology.

394
01:22:09.000 --> 01:22:16.000
Do you? So let's start. Let's give Jan the chance to start since he's far away.

395
01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:17.000
Let's give Jan the chance to start since he's far away. OK, yeah, you cannot send them.

396
01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:23.000
Yeah. Thank you very much. Everybody. 3 key points.

397
01:22:23.000 --> 01:22:42.000
The leading neoliberal countries who carry the torch. Do you United States and the UK. With strength and Brexit and now the turn to war up precisely the countries among advanced economies that are in deep crisis.

398
01:22:42.000 --> 01:23:05.000
Let's take this into account. The security turn to turn off geopolitics to take over and sabotage geoeconomics is not in the interest of geo-economics is not in the interest of the world majority of the world majority.

399
01:23:05.000 --> 01:23:09.000
Of the world modularity, the global south of the world majority. Of the world modularity, the global south of the Global South, the obliques.

400
01:23:09.000 --> 01:23:23.000
Hey, clearly, interestingly, major role and the August meeting of the, difficulty that's always, is important.

401
01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:35.000
Middle middle powers small countries regional formations ASEAN European Union and so forth. Also play a big role.

402
01:23:35.000 --> 01:23:48.000
We stand at the moment of the possibility of major en significant breakthroughs in social consciousness, collective consciousness.

403
01:23:48.000 --> 01:24:18.000
And possibly political and politically economy breakthroughs. So that is maybe this is not permitted. But there are very positive potentials that are being unleashed.

404
01:24:19.000 --> 01:24:26.000
And I'm sorry I should have called you first because so please do

405
01:24:26.000 --> 01:24:32.000
I got confused. I'm sorry.

406
01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:46.000
I would try to be very brief and thank you very much for your comments. I agree with most that you said I agree with everything you said white books I think that's a very interesting question.

407
01:24:46.000 --> 01:25:09.000
I think there are several voices that should be heard in this period and there are several voices speaking. But to me, this particular set of voices seemed very interesting, especially because of its polyphony or because of its fragmentation it seemed to me that it lacked a certain articulation and for that reason it seems like it was worth our research.

408
01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:12.000
So that would be the short answer. He ends question what about Lula and is there a rise of hope?

409
01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:28.000
I don't know if I don't have the empirical data but I tend to agree I think there is indeed a rise of hope.

410
01:25:28.000 --> 01:25:38.000
The place of the place of what happened after D election of Lula in my specific research is something that is still open.

411
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:43.000
And I think I have time to think about it and decide if I want to include that or not. I'm just in the beginning.

412
01:25:43.000 --> 01:25:51.000
I'm starting my the second year of my research, so I think I still have time to decide on that.

413
01:25:51.000 --> 01:26:17.000
I also had a question about the issue of the crisis of identity. Yes, well, I always answer to the question in the sense that I feel that I am kind of in a comfortable position in the sense that I don't feel the need of I of me expressing what I believe about the crisis, I always say that I'm

414
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dealing with what these altars, what these intellectuals are talking about the crisis. And in this sense, one of the books that I mentioned here that I worked with today, Piedra's My Shadow Books.

415
01:26:28.000 --> 01:26:52.000
She works a lot with the idea of a crisis of identity. But not not focusing on a national identity but in the but mostly in a crisis of masculinity of a certain masculine identity in the country and how this also helped shaped and also helped elected in Bolsonaro.

416
01:26:52.000 --> 01:27:02.000
This is something that that has to do with what you are discussing, but not specifically with a crisis of national identity itself.

417
01:27:02.000 --> 01:27:10.000
And lastly, I think I, well, I have a question of what I can learn from this narrative constructions.

418
01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:39.000
And I think this is still open. I still have much to see there. I think from the perspective of perhaps of a sociology of knowledge it is interesting to have a look on what Brazilian sociologists are Brazilian social scientists more broadly how they conceive the future and how a certain problematic present can shape their aspirations or their anticipations

419
01:27:39.000 --> 01:28:01.000
of the future from this perspective of the sociology of knowledge. I think this can be very interesting. But also from, from Macron, concrete, more concrete point of view, I also think it can be interesting to explore the ways in which the crisis discourse might also shape our views of the future.

420
01:28:01.000 --> 01:28:11.000
And thinking about the role of intellectuals can also lead to other discussions about concerning public sociology and so on.

421
01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:19.000
But I would leave at that. I don't know if we still have time to make questions because I would have a question, can I?

422
01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:26.000
So my question is for you, Matias, about the poly periodization. I also think it was really interesting to hear your presentation.

423
01:28:26.000 --> 01:28:29.000
I also think it was really interesting to hear your presentation. And my question is, I also think it was really interesting to hear your presentation.

424
01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:34.000
And my question is how to hear your presentation. And my question is, how are your presentation? And my question is how poly is your poly periodization proposal?

425
01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:42.000
So is it poly is your poly periodization proposal? So is it pulling in the sense of several disciplines interacting and joining with their specific periodization proposal.

426
01:28:42.000 --> 01:28:46.000
So is it Poly in the sense of several disciplines interacting and joining with their specific periodization?

427
01:28:46.000 --> 01:28:53.000
Or is there space in this polyphony for multiple periodizations within the disciplines and within the disputes inside each, each view which perspective.

428
01:28:53.000 --> 01:28:57.000
That's it.

429
01:28:57.000 --> 01:29:05.000
Yeah. Static quickly. Yes, thank you for this question. Yes, it's both.

430
01:29:05.000 --> 01:29:16.000
It's I think there is and should be room for poly periodisation within and across disciplines and we actually deliberately skipped the multi.

431
01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:22.000
Because we thought it got to confusing. However, what is important is that I mean if we see this as a heuristic.

432
01:29:22.000 --> 01:29:40.000
The ultimate idea is that what does need to ascertain empirically which periodisations are used and which in a sense have some effect.

433
01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:50.000
I don't think there's a natural threshold. I don't think there is a national threshold where you can say, well, this is too marginal for it to have an effect.

434
01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:56.000
But you do need to use, you do need to look at which. Heer sensations are used not only in disciplines.

435
01:29:56.000 --> 01:30:11.000
But also in the systems in question. Who refers, for example, to a distinction between modernity and pre modernity and in what respect and how powerful does that become.

436
01:30:11.000 --> 01:30:33.000
When through this periodisations have an effect when we talk about modernity for example one could argue that there was a timing across many social systems in the 19 eighties, ninetys, early 2 thousands, a distinction between a modernity and posemodernity was very, very important which has almost completely evaporated.

437
01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:43.000
It's not there any longer as you could see this target. An historically important historical an historically important periodization that could be this target. An historically important periodization that could be observed for a specific time.

438
01:30:43.000 --> 01:30:46.000
If I understand the historically important periodization that could be observed for a specific time. If I understand the question correctly, yes there is of course.

439
01:30:46.000 --> 01:30:49.000
The realisation is about our relations. This decisive power of relations would end. It's not necessarily political.

440
01:30:49.000 --> 01:31:16.000
It can also be political power relations, but it's discussive power relations. And in that sense, although he certainly did not use the language, one could say that maybe Maybe for Kobe was a kind of empirical researcher on different kinds of period and I, because he exactly focused with the genealogical

441
01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:28.000
method on trying to unearth which kind of periods can be distinguished when and where in relation to distinct social systems.

442
01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:34.000
So yes, this cursive power. BERITIES are about discursive power. They are also about political power.

443
01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:45.000
Of course they are also about political power. Specific periodizations. People wielding political power try to define their own periods.

444
01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:59.000
The most dark example probably being 14 Xi Jinping and Donald Trump. They are all Lift with this idea that the relevant period is the greatness of the rivalry China, the US, America and Russia.

445
01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:11.000
It's an uninterrupted period of an imagined greatness. Yeah. The only difference is when they would locate when this starts.

446
01:32:11.000 --> 01:32:21.000
They only see, so in a sense they don't know any pure realization they know interruptions in a specific period but these are very strong periodization claims.

447
01:32:21.000 --> 01:32:31.000
There is a period of Greatness. With various reference points to when they started and this still continues.

448
01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:41.000
And so it's nothing about transition from feudalism to democracy or for primaternity to modernity or what do you have?

449
01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:55.000
Whatever kind of neoliberal model to something else. It's a claim that the relevant period is one of national slash imperial greatness and that's politics pure.

450
01:32:55.000 --> 01:33:04.000
In terms of pure adaptation.

451
01:33:04.000 --> 01:33:15.000
Well, to the your question Why then people voted for the left and then for the radical right in one year and all this changes.

452
01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:24.000
Well there are a lot of answers we could give. But there is one thing that I could say from my long research.

453
01:33:24.000 --> 01:33:34.000
The long time research I've done. And I think this one thing, there's one thing in which Neoliberalism did have a lot of success.

454
01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:50.000
And that is deep politician from the population. And that is very important because when you read these movements you read them with a political clue and you don't It's not the right clue.

455
01:33:50.000 --> 01:34:01.000
You have to use Morris sociological clue to understand what they're doing because what I said is they do want change.

456
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:14.000
And they do have moral criticisms. But they do not, this whole thing does not have a political translation so they just go for what is, reflects.

457
01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:33.000
Their needs of change in their ordinary lives. And I think this is happening in many, many countries, in many, this, this, this gap between what is sociologically occurring and what is politically going on.

458
01:34:33.000 --> 01:34:43.000
This is a gap and I think populism and radical right is using it very well because there I have understood that this is not a political issue.

459
01:34:43.000 --> 01:34:48.000
This is another kind of issue. So that's the one. And the second one, yeah, your question, thank you very much, Jeremy.

460
01:34:48.000 --> 01:35:08.000
Well, yes, I think it would be very important to to have an comparative approach. I have seen works in Latin America a little bit in this perspective too.

461
01:35:08.000 --> 01:35:38.000
But I do think that because I think when I see other realities I read about what they are doing, what is happening in other societies, there are a lot of points which are very similar but then a lot of differences you have to but I think a perspective that takes into account that we are in a point in which neoliberalism

462
01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:43.000
To them.

463
01:35:43.000 --> 01:35:49.000
has counter effects, has had counter effects. For its own plants is something that we should take very seriously.

464
01:35:49.000 --> 01:35:57.000
For everybody. But they are, so they are, I am not sure how it would work, but I think that it starts by collaboration between us.

465
01:35:57.000 --> 01:36:24.000
Sociologists and I think it is very important to stimulate collaboration from scholars from very different countries, but I think these cover, usually competitive works have been done with a quantitative methods and I think we have to go into qualitative methods.

466
01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:45.000
Which is harder and you know that well because we are talking about social realities with very different structural features, historical things we have to, you know, make some sense, you know, take time some decisions about theoretical approaches and everything.

467
01:36:45.000 --> 01:37:03.000
But I think we should go into that. For example, in earlier release, there is a lot of differences between what happened with that in Latin America, which was benefited by the commodities boom and so neoliberalism came along with wealthier countries.

468
01:37:03.000 --> 01:37:30.000
And with the benefit for a lot for a lot of people and the population which is totally different and we have discussed that with some colleagues in Europe to Europe in which it came along with with with a deterioration of the world first state so we have to understand things like this thank you very much

469
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:39.000
Okay, does anyone has the use to say something to put somewhere? Yes, please. Maybe a very quick one.

470
01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:52.000
Does it work? Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah. We don't want to understand what's kind of correct.

471
01:37:52.000 --> 01:38:01.000
What exactly is the prices? Specifically when you say the liberal is, whereas it is the sort of idea So, UK, US.

472
01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:12.000
Prices prices. Prices didn't go back to ancient Greece or current medicine means patient is in crisis where they will die.

473
01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:17.000
Well, get new dynamics, new energy.

474
01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:23.000
Now, so if, if we are talking about something, it's on a say, it's ontologically subject when we're talking about ideas.

475
01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:45.000
You cannot touch. We can say IMF will ban this organization or rules of games. Something is wrong here, but for us it has to be more I identified, We are waiting something will happen with renewed energy from that.

476
01:38:45.000 --> 01:38:59.000
That's that's my voice Since we don't have that much time, I think one, who wants to answer that?

477
01:38:59.000 --> 01:39:18.000
It I think it was a difficult question that we all have to reflect about. Well, it's not the same crisis.

478
01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:27.000
Perhaps, we have always been in crisis. We are always believing as if there is something to change.

479
01:39:27.000 --> 01:39:28.000
That's what moves us as if there is something to change. That's what moves us permanently.

480
01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:35.000
That's what moves us permanently. Sometimes the questions are more pressing or that I'm not expressing.

481
01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:42.000
Sometimes the questions are more pressing or the questions are more pressing or that I'm not expressing but we are in times of change are more pressing or that I'm not expressing but we are in times of change ever and that's why all the effort to have this kind of change ever.

482
01:39:42.000 --> 01:39:44.000
And that's why all the effort to have this kind of dialogue we are in times of change ever.

483
01:39:44.000 --> 01:39:47.000
And that's why all the effort to have this kind of dialogue we have is very much welcome. With these words I thank you very much.

484
01:39:47.000 --> 01:39:56.000
I thank the paper givers for the stimulating papers. I think you or the audience for their good questions and thank you very much for myself.

485
01:39:56.000 --> 01:39:57.000
Thank you.