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on behalf of everyone gathered. I pay respect to the spirit of country here in Nam, where we are meeting.

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I acknowledge the past and present cooler nation who are in Jerry Weiwarung as the sovereign people. Here the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the norm aboriginal law, customs and custodianship, responsibilities for country and the people. That country continues to sustain generation after generation into the future. For all of us

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I recognize the important contribution that first nation thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking. We thank all first nations delegates in the room today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline.

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Welcome

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to this really important final session of our conference.

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and I'm really delighted to be able to introduce our 5 speakers today. to Nina. How do I get out of here?

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Do I escape it? There we go. And behind our 5 speakers today. One of whom will be online and the other 4 in person, and I'd also like to welcome my co-chair. Dr. Sarah Picard, who's sitting in Paris, and who's sick, and it's very early in the morning.

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and then I'd also like to welcome Judith Bassant and Rob Watts, who are the organizers of the session, and Rob will give us a a discussant piece at the end, and we'll feel some questions. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce to you Jenina Summers, who will be speaking about young people's emerging Democratic participation over to you, Jenina.

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in the

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Hi. I like it. New chef. Okay? Sorry you did.

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Okay. I'm Kyota Koto, and I'm a lecturer at Tikuda to Tangata, the School of education at the University of Waikato in Alteradua, New Zealand and today I'd like to share some findings from my Phd. Research.

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and and I hope I can contribute to the part about political transformation of this panel. So I'd like to share experiences from how young people in a community in Germany where did case study research participate as citizens?

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It's not.

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No, it is okay, great. So this research started through my own experience as a teacher in roles secondary schools in New Zealand and Germany. And I noticed that the students that I was teaching participated in multiple ways in the spaces around them. And I felt like they Their experiences weren't reflected in some of the literature that I read about Young People

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and I think this is because often place wasn't discussed in the literature or urban centers were over-represented. that showed young people's engagement. And I think, I also saw quite a few narrow and adult-centric definitions of citizenship which didn't include the sort of activities that the young people that that I worked with.

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and and I also think there needs to be some reconsideration of citizenship in a transforming and in transforming democratic societies. And I call this emerging citizenship dimensions.

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And so my research question was which emerging citizenship dimensions do rural young people participate in? And this is centered on case study evidence from a rural community in Germany.

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So When I started out thinking about what citizenship activities are, I knew I had to go for a concept that is really wide to capture those different spaces that young people engaged in in their everyday lives.

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And So I started with the Seminole definition from verbal Andi, who defines citizenship activities as influencing governmental personnel or their actions.

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And then I looked at how this can be extended, and I found the definition of telecritis and fun death useful, who say they might also target community problems or have a political motif.

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But my findings actually actually suggest that I can go even border and look at some more spaces. So I also include services to the community or any activities that are related to community decision making

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a community for me is also schools. So schools can be communities, community clubs and online spaces, too.

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And so based on this definition. That is, I think, really, looking at young people's social worlds.

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I wanted to see what kind of citizenship activity some people engaged in

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So then, I also wanted to look at the different multiple spaces, and also this concept of transforming democratic societies. And so I conducted a literature review on current research on young people's engagement from in Western democratic systems. Because that's what I was interested in in the German case.

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And and so I identified 7 of these emerging citizenship dimensions. And they were official, online, global, individual issues-based justice oriented and sporadic.

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And I developed a framework where I put them on a continuum with their traditional means. And so I argue that according to the literature, those 7 dimensions are sort of in which way participation is going off. Young people

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in Western democratic societies, though.

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And I wanted to explore this framework with empirical data.

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So I did case study research. As I said before, so my case study community is called Underburg. That's a pseudonym. I gave it.

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and I invited ordinary young people and teachers from one role secondary school in Baden, Wutenberg, which is a county in Germany. and I used to definition of ordinary as young people who aren't already activists or community leaders.

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And so And Underburgh has around 7,500 residents. It's There's a lot of forests, a lot of agriculture, and and it's termed as a successful rural community. So with high income, there's high-tech revenue and so on. So just so you get a bit of an idea of the space.

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Now I in my study, I conducted 8 student focus groups, a qualitative questionnaire and semi-structured teacher interviews and the main question I asked is

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at the students, how do you and the teachers? How do your students participate as citizens in your community and schools? And I told them that citizens are all the people who live in a community.

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And then I used some prompts which I developed through a pilot study.

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asking them, okay, so what do you do in your form class? What do you do in your private life and your family? What do you do? in the municipality online to kind of prompt their thinking.

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And on the right, you can see that's actually maybe your left. You can see the participants of the study. So a

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mix of male, female and non-binary participants I had. My students were 13 to 16 year olds.

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and

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they had a perceived average to high socioeconomic background, even though I do acknowledge the limitations of measuring it that way. I use the letter question. I don't know if you know this one

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and they were from rural villages. My name.

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So let's look at the findings on A before, I wanted to just make a few comments about data analysis. Because I think it, it's an important part of thinking through how we can actually apply a framework with empirical data.

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So what I did is I coded all citizenship activities to this wide definition of citizenship that I proposed.

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And then I assigned the dimension. So I created an excel table where I uploaded all of the data. And I looked at it and said, Okay, so this citizenship activity here you can see of Bruno talking about going to a local council meeting. This would be offline and official, for example. And I did this with all the 7 and emerging in 7 traditional contexts.

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and I used this for quantitative representation. And then I went into detail and conducted reflexive thematic analysis, because I did want to value the you know, qualitative data.

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Okay? So now we're going to look at the findings. And So first of all, my participants engaged in multiple citizenship activities in their schools and in their communities.

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And this image is actually from a research exhibition we did in my department. And so you can see here, for example, engaged in collecting rubbish in selective consumerism and playing music at a retirement home, but also

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activities at school like being part of the student Council.

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What I noticed is that young people didn't just engage in one space. They were moving in and out and through those activities. So it was really heterogeneous

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and what you can already see a little bit as well is that it was really the engagement was really connected to the places within which they lived.

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So the context of a rural community affected their ways. They had access. So, for example.

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Zoe, from your 10 here talks about Protests are mostly in a city that is not easy for me to get to. and but rurality could also enable access to use community clubs like the Voluntary Fire Brigade, which was really common in their community.

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It was also related to availability and acceptance. So here we can see a quote from a teacher who says if they, the students, want to go to Friday for future protests, they have to go to Sendring in, which is a big city nearby.

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and at least, and also maybe it's not that organized here. I don't know the local organizations operate here. How well they are organized.

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I think that it's just not so common here.

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And then another aspect of this was that I found some role-specific stereotypes. This teacher, for example, says that in Bundaberg, which is a mid-sized city a bit further away from underback.

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They still protest on Fridays. I don't see that in Underburg I think our students, because they are further into the forest or the village are not so political here

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and then, finally, socio-economic background was also discussed in relation to their participation, and and this was mainly discussed in terms of satisfaction. So when I asked, you know, did you engage in things that where you wanted to change something? a lot of young people were actually like, we're happy. there isn't anything that you know we need. And so that kind of restricted, almost their activism.

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Okay, now let's look at those emerging dimensions that I talked about the framework so what I found here, and you can see the emerging dimensions. They are going from the left to the right.

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and I found that the most prevalent ones were local and official, sporadic and issues based and less prevalent were individual, online and justice oriented

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and overall, it was again very heterogeneous. So instead of

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participants mainly being engaged in unofficial, they were often engaged in across both dimensions.

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We have time to look into one of them, so I I will go for the justice oriented one.

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and this is, I define justice, oriented as aiming at initiating systematic change individually, or as a collective

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and systematic change would be changing laws or discourses. and on the other end of the continuum here would be participatory and personally responsible

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dimension. And you might see this is similar to West Timer and Count's conception.

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and that would be not aiming for systematic change, but, for example, more like things like volunteering.

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So let's look at some of those justice-oriented expressions of my participants. So they were engaged in raising awareness and social networks, selective consumerism, protest.

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refusing to do something, petitions and events.

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And I just want to read out one quote here. which shows that it's so embedded in their everyday lives. this is from Magda from year 10

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who says many teachers have told me that it's not okay to wear crop tops. I was threatened that I would have to wear the school sweater. I disagree with that. I think that I'm not responsible if others can't keep their eyes to themselves.

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And so just like everyday acts of resistance here.

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And so I think that this disengagement from justice, or from the justice oriented dimension overall for my participants.

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is a concern, especially during intersecting crises, which needs citizens who can think critically and challenge the status quo

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And so why were my participants disengaged from this dimension? So one is definitely rurality played a role.

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And another thing was, though, that there were very few spaces for descent.

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So Mara here from year 8, for example, says I didn't take part in protests. For example, the Black Lives matter protest because my parents don't agree with it. Yet when I'm older, I could imagine participating in various contexts. So there was a lot of gatekeeping and power relationships, preventing them from actually engaging.

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And

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and then I'm just going to read the final quote on this page as well. So rather than dissent teachers and schools seem to encourage a more sort of

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a participatory, personally responsible citizenship. So here a teacher says.

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maybe because you don't raise them in that direction from an early age ready. They have the opportunity. They are always reprimanded, and I think it has become extremely solidified over the years

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that they say, Well, what should I do?

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okay. So I've got this signal to sort of wrap up. So I'm going to go into my wrapping up

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slides. So the first point I want to make here is that What I really found out is that young people are engaged in heterogeneous ways, and their engagement was very much shaped by reality and their socioeconomic backgrounds. And I'm sort of starting playing around a bit with this sort of

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idea of what kind of factors within that concept of rule and place is affecting their engagement, and some of the concepts are access, availability, acceptance, rural, rural, specific stereotypes

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and rules specific issues. So I want to look further into this with my future research.

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But now I want to end with some implications for participation research. So I argue, we should use white and youth-centric definitions of citizenship.

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We, the dimensions, really help with a holistic understanding of young people's participation.

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And we so should acknowledge the the role of place in research.

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and I think, for more sort of policymakers and community leaders and teachers. I argue for the need for spaces for dissent at school, where we can help young people to develop skills and critical thinking, decision making and open up opportunities for them to be engaged in meaningful critical decisions. yeah, and that's what I'm going to. And thank you.

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Thank you.

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she said. She was very obedient, and she was. So. Our next speaker is Giorgioos Kiroglu, who is going to be speaking to us about youth, political participation.

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consumers, youth, political consumers for become participants and political consumers. In particular. Ok. Chelsea, I think you need to just get it out of the

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if any, on the screen. It's in the presentation, if you want to

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thank you

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right? So

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here we are.

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Thank you. Rope. Thank you, Judy. Thank you, Sara. And sadly.

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okay.

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South Africa is going to France. I just heard about the riots in parties. I hope that everything is

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all right. I guess. Thank you all for being here after a long and intense week. and importantly, thank you, Gina, for a very interesting presentation.

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I believe that discussion of the particular observation between the observer.

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the individual and global citizen's complex of gang victory is a perfect segue for our recently public's paper with matrices from an outcome.

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The focus of our paper is on political consumers, and in particular on the individual. But collective motivations and personality. Identification of young political consumers in a country of the European North, that is, the United Kingdom

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as opposed to one of the European South in Greece

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as a form of political participation that operates explicitly within the marketplace, and is therefore subject and susceptible to the individualization forces of the neoliberal project. It is rather surprising, we argue that political consumerism has hardly been examined as a neoliberal phenomenon.

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The question, therefore, of the individual versus collective orientations and personality. Outreach of young political consumers stands central in our research.

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So in lack of time, I will start with some brief context and definitions before I dive into into our findings.

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First and foremost, what is political consumerism? Political consumers refers to the purchase of goods and services based not only on price, quality, or availability.

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But according to Michelle Mckelty, of the University of Stockholm, on Ethical, Environmental and Political Considerations behind their production methods

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which may include and arrange from environmental sustainability workers, rights, human rights. But, as we also argue, they move beyond the Anthropocene, and they include also the environment and the protection of the environment and the planet as a whole

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political consumerism. This is the importance of individual responsibility, taking for the common good by recognizing a fundamental part of the production process in the very act of consuming

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by does not really stop there. In effect, what political consumerism does is. It harnesses the individual consumer power and directs it towards expansive towards collective public issues, blurting in this way the boundaries between the conventional, the traditional notions between the citizen on the one hand and the consumer on the other, in what we call the empowered citizen consumer.

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In an earlier article, always with Matt. Hen, we argue that

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as a market-oriented forum of political engagement. Political consumerism is particularly susceptible to the market logic and the no liberal ideology that permeates it. Political consumerism has thus been invariably described and criticized, on the one hand, as an individualistic form.

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as an individualistic commodification of political participation, which, of course, deviates in that respect from the one man, one vote democratic action.

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and, on the other hand, it has been praised as a counter movement, a collective form of resilience. the marketization of civic values of the neoliberal project which arguably

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brought it into existence. In the first place.

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the supporting literature, of course, reconciling the 2 may be traced all the way back 80 years ago, even

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in 1,944. In the same year, for example, that Frederick Hayek published the Neoliberal Bible, the road to serfdom, Olani a response back

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with a great transformation which he describes the process of a double movement. a simultaneous dialectical process of marketization on the one hand.

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and a simultaneous push on the other for social protection against that marketization.

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So first, let's a fair reformers seek to disembed the economy from society in order to establish what Poland calls a market society wherein all things are being commodified.

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In our case this commodification would refer to political participation itself. while, on the other we have a reactionary counter movement which arises whereby society attempts to re-employ the economy back to

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into the society.

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The difference in this case, in the case of political consumerism is that this very counter movement is now in the hands of the individual consumer

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for the citizen consumer. If you wait

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so, political consumerism is nothing more than the use of the market as an arena for politics, and according to the standard literature, it takes predominantly 3 forms. I. Boycotts

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refusal to buy for political, ethical, and environmental reasons, by purposely buying for the very same reasons. and some scholars might even include discursive actions. I opinion and value expressions in communicative efforts. The common ground between these 3 is that

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the government in this case is not the primary target of political action.

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Conceptually, we could say that the political consumers

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stand, therefore, in the center between the individual and the collected dimension on the one hand.

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which then may and may or may not be picked up eventually by the government.

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So across the individual collective dimension it might take the form of more individualized actions, such as boycotts or bycodes.

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either from the right or from the left to more discursive expressions, such as brandalism and political graffiti

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on the way to more collective expressions, such as sustainability festivals and moving up the ladder might include or may not include in this case.

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local exchange trading system, selling the economy, consuming less campaigns all the way to consumer advocacy groups, what in the United States they would call, not the reason

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which then may or may not be picked up by political parties, such as the green parties, or maybe a better example would be the pirates. A few years ago in Scandinavia

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the plurality of expressions of political consumerism. We argue, creates, however, a problem of definition with earlier definitions on the academic front, talking about the primarily individualistic form of political participation.

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while later definitions

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stress on its collected dimension.

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The aim is that for the of our paper.

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and it was to attempt to disentangle this dynamics among gang TV by asking our 634 survey respondents between 18 and 29 years of aids. A. What motivates them to engage in political consumerism.

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how they identify themselves across the individual is collective is dimension.

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and see, so that we eventually and hopefully set some light on how these motivations and personality identification vary across countries, or at least among young people in the Uk and Greece.

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In this process we followed the Standard survey approach. asking our survey respondents whether they had engaged in by

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boycotts, and see in neither or both in the last 12 months. Of course this approach does not come with

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limitations. one of which is, of course, that mit Ctl. And if a young political consumer said, for example, that they participate in an act of political consumers of boycotting once in the last 12 months they could be classified as a political consumer in as much as any other one

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who engages in political consumers consistently.

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And this is what our respondents aid

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a snapshot of the responses of poorly young political consumers in the 2 countries. Although I wouldn't really to read too much into this graph, as our sampling methods would not really allow for robust inferences

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mit Ctl. And what we were instead particularly interested in was the association of political consumeries with our first set of independent variables arranged for more individualistic to more collectivist ones, 2

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expanding all the way to include also deep ecological concerns, would take into consideration also the animal kingdom all the way to invite to the environment and the planet as a whole.

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It is worth noting that across our whole sample young people in both countries demonstrated lower motivations in relation to their national economy.

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Somewhere in the middle, while young people in the Uk were more interested in fair trade than medical production overseas.

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Now, out of those who said that they had by quoted at least once in the past 12 months.

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there was a statistically significant association across all 6 motivations

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for Greece, while young people in the Uk demonstrated more emphasis on a local production and social ties. B animal rights

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and see environmentally responsible lifestyles and protection of the planet as a whole.

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I what I guess Jan and I would call global motivations

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likewise out of the Bowie quarters now.

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and if anything, we have no indications whatsoever that political consumerism is associated with individualistic motivations nor with national economic concerns.

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The same holes for the dual quotas.

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who demonstrate no significant associations with individualistic motivations. I. Personal health on the top.

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whereas there is a statistically significant association for national economy only for young dual coders in the Uk.

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Moving on now over to our second set of independent variables, we asked our survey response directly to tell us how they predominantly see themselves.

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I do. They see themselves as autonomous individuals as now. Liberalism good

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probably force them to. or as part of their local community. All the way up to whether they see themselves as citizens of the world

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once again across the whole sample. It might be worth noting that young people in the Uk demonstrated a more individualistic and less local community outlook. whereas both cohorts demonstrated relatively lower affiliation to national self-identification.

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Importantly, however, out of the bike orders both in the Uk and in Greece. Our respondents say that they perceive themselves as both part of the local community

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and our citizens of the world.

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No significant associations were found out of the Boycotters whatsoever across all 6 dimensions.

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And again. out of the dual quotas, there was evident, and affiliation

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to global self-identification by a simultaneous affiliation to local community

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and cosmopolitan is. and on this particular slide it might be worth noting that there was a a significantly negative association among the young dual quoters

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in the Uk.

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A negative one.

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Thank you.

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Summing up both young political consumers in the Uk. And in Greece, demonstrated what Janina would call a global self-identification.

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That is the simultaneous local community and cosmopolitan orientation. While there was a noteworthy negative relationship with national self-identification among young dual cotters in naked in the Uk

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 mit ctl. And if anything, and contrary to earlier understandings of political consumerism, we found absolutely no evidence of an association between individualistic self-identification, nor motivations, and political consumers, neither in the Uk nor in Greece. One

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 We conclude, therefore, that the perceived expansion of the subjective understanding of the self among young political consumers in the Uk and Greece.

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seems to have compass not only their immediate community, but reflects also a never-increasing motivational expansion beyond the Anthropocene, involving also other species, the environment

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and the world as a whole.

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And that's pretty much it. From my part, what's next? I think what's next is to include the class dimension in the whole discussion. Some preliminary findings have, have demonstrated, or have provided, rather indications.

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that the respondents with the greatest dissatisfaction with market competition and the now liberal principles of free enterprise.

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then to choose an inherently market-oriented means of political participation.

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that is, political consumerism. to express theoretical, environmental and political contestations.

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And let me cut it short over here

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with one of my favorite quotes. every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of work you want. Thank you.

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Thank you very much. To address. That was fantastic.

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 so let me go to.

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Yeah. Our next speaker is Cecile, friend Felder.

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and she'll be speaking about listening to anger, youth, voices, and the transformation of democracy.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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so Hello, everyone. Thanks for accepting me in this very interesting session. So I'm Cecil Lindeveld. I'm a professor of sociology at the University of Montreal, and I'm delighted to be here with you to contribute to this collective reflection with this presentation. So listening to anger.

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So the story behind this research was that I was working on the dynamics of social. Anger and hopes among younger generations, and by social anger I mean not the anger you feel between individuals, but the one you feel against society, politics, governments, institutions, or a system.

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And as for At first I was only focusing on youth movements.

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because, like other sociologists, I was associating this social anger, to collective movements to you 3 volts.

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And so I compared 7 new social movement of the last last decade from the indignados to the environmental movement Fridays for future.

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and I was able to observe the rise of a rhetoric of inter-generational injustice, be it academic, social, political, or and romantic, associated with An increasingly radical critic of a legacy, a legacy dimmed too heavy for future generations. And this part of this of the research is over now. Just published 2 days ago in international sociology.

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But gradually I realized it was not enough.

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and that I was only capturing the tip of the iceberg.

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For example, some protesters were saying that it was their last participation before withdrawing, or that that protesting was not exhausting, not healing, their feeling of revolt. It was only healing a small part of their anger or of their social pain.

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So I realized that to understand youth, social anger.

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you have to capture not only the noise, but also and above the.

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So I've extended my research to capture not only the collective voice, even if it's indeed very strong and stronger, but also to explore the more individualized Angers to see what they have to say.

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But the this anger, these feelings of revolts that can have access to the public space that are most silent, almost silenced.

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I call them the Invisible Angers.

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and I have been amazed how deep and multiple these forms of anger were to me that constitute now a latent and a powerful energy of our democracy.

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So my goal became to capture the contemporary grammars of revolt within younger generations. So I relied on the comparative analysis of more than 150 interviews conducted with young adults in Madrid, Paris, Montreal, Santago, de Chile, and Hong Kong, and the interviews dealt with the social audience experience the emotions they could generate and their modes of politicization.

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But in the same And so in the sima in this, in the the cities. I collected interviews on the one who protested, but also on the ones who didn't, and so also among most vulnerable youth.

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and I went deeper in the life course because the idea was to understand revolt, not by its point of arrival. Once collectivized in the form of social movement, and or materialized in a vote, as in most works on anger, but by its its point of departure, and so at the source.

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And I was also interested to see the differences and the common patterns, the global dynamics within this generation. And therefore I privilege this comparative approach. So of course, I don't have time to go into all the details. I'd like just to present a few points that stand out. It's under construction. So I would be delighted to have your feedback.

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Of course you can find strong differences between roots, types, and targets of your 3 volts today, depending on the countries, on the social backgrounds, on social situations.

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But beyond these differences the word of the critic of the revolt is the same, and this word is system.

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The system imposed itself at the figure of the real power among the young generation today.

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even if this representation of power is embodied by a specific target identified people, institutions, government

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in the life story. The system is presented as the real source of power, the one that stands behind and the one that crystallized this, the effect of hope, of revolt, of despair. So I try to understand more this relationship between young adults and the system. This common enemy, almost this new other.

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So if we disconnect this.

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the anatomy of this global enemy, it is seen as a set of different forces. often political, social, economic, with different configurations depending on the individual. But it is considered as a power which has multiple characteristics.

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And I, I, I found 5 main characteristic. a power or a set of forces invisible.

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complicit far away with different players, different scales, tyrannical because you can't escape easily the system, and only reachable. You can change it easily.

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and this relationship with the system is the source Of a lot of complex emotions, feeling of dependency, sometimes hope, sometimes joy, but also, and must often sometimes anger or a feeling of necessity, of resistance.

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And what is dominant is what I call a critical loyalty, playing the rules of the game, but criticizing or helping them at the same time.

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And another point to note, and the critic of the system is most often expressed at an existential level. Whether it is individual or collective, this critic it expressed with physical words or existential world. The system kills us. It prevents me from being, for example.

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and because the main question is, how can you revolt against the system?

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There were a lot of different pathway of this revolt.

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Some anger will be collectivised more easily with an Us. And them, while other angers will not be collectivised, or they will be rather incorporated.

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And, as you see, on this slide. There are a lot of steps in this password. Embodiment! Because at first you are alone in your feeling of revolt. And so you can embody it. it can disappear. But come again in your life. Course you you made a life transition. It's okay. And then you still you, you, you 150,

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you! You come back to this feeling of revolt. So there is a long accumulation, potential, longer accumulation in in the life course. And

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the the problem is not the problem, but the condition to build a we. So to collectivize the anger, to have this resonance of experience not exactly the same experience, but a resonance of experience you can identify to the same wish. This condition are quite constrainted, the same as to politicize this anger because it's one thing to collectilize it. It's another

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thing, another step to have the same enemy and the same target and the same expression in the public space, so to designate as them these these conditions are very demanding, and for your anger to be expressed.

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but also to be heard, and also to be listened to.

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Most of the cases. You are alone. Find in the life story without a a collective expression which can lead to this process of embodiment and incorporation, or it can lead to different to to go to new commitments or to new life transitions.

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And so these conditions are so constrained today in our democracies that they can have a process of eclipse of anger

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in our society. In my studio study I find 3 main narratives of anger among young adults.

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and they don't have the same access to the public space. And these different narratives of anger are different, different differential, sorry, different Sharia in themselves, mainly according the position in the system of inequality, but the subjective position in the system of inequality.

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So there is a first account of anger that is very more familiar to us because it is often part in the youth cultural movement, and it is more dominant, but not only in the young people who feel themselves at the heart heart, or almost at the heart of the system, and this rhetoric is more the one of a disposition.

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and especially the loss of a future. This future can be some dimension of this future. It can be social, economic, and Garmonton, but it's the main rhetoric, and this kind of rhetoric is often very easily collectivised.

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and can can can lead to a generational week, and that's why we found them, and I found them very dominant in the social movement. I could study, and we heard them more in the public space.

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But there is another one, and which was dominant in my interviews, and this kind of anger struggles to be collectivised. They remind us I remain more silent. They are carried by young people who feel on the margins of the system.

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even if they are highly educated, but they feel subjectively on the margins of the system they want to integrate to. And it's a rhetoric of fatigue, of where and it's

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interesting for me, because there, sometimes there are even some tensions that don't identify to the first rhetoric. You can have wealth in one but you that some young people don't want to identify to the generational. We you can find in the first rhetoric of anger. They are criticized sometimes.

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and they say they are not in the same roots of revolt, not in the same revolt, and their identification is more into intuitive emotional inequalities than in intelligent emotional inequalities.

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And finally, there are also revolt narratives linked to social discrimination, often in relation to gender-based or to race-based violence and these narratives are often accumulated over long periods of life, and associated with the rhetoric of an umbrella difference the can be it collectivized, but in a difficult and exhausting struggle.

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So

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yes, it's I I also. I'm too short some. Well, in conclusion, just some point, I think, for me the the step of the reflection would be to to think about how to to build regimes of hope, because for me the transformation of democracy

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involves building. This kind of building hope for young people, and from my comparison I could see how much this affect

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hope is linked to anger, intricately linked to anger. You can separate them, and it is really key to lighten anger in the context of adversity. And so to think to this kind of leverage, to compare and to find public policies which are more prompt compared to others to build that kind of hope. I think it's important for the political reflection, and the other point

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is

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in my study I could find a lot of

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experience.

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mechanism of silenceation, of silence, and I think it is important to differentiate the different stages in the chain of from individual voice

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to social change, and not to try to act only at the end of the chain. Once the anger is already collectivised, and in the public space, but to act also before, and so to be able to think to these different steps of change before social change, so voicing

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once anger. It's already a big step sharing it, not feeling that you are not alone in your social pain or in your social revolt

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being heard so to have access to a collective voice.

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It is also some break, some difficulties in that process from sharing to being heard, and then it is one thing to be heard that there is also some big processes to construct between being heard and being understood, and to lead to social change. So thank you for listening.

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Thank you.

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Thank you very much, Cecile. That was well within time and fascinating study. and our next speaker is cf.

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who will be speaking about exploring safe spaces for collective democratic practices in all about goals.

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Thank you, Charlene, and thank you for the fellow panelists as well for the fantastic sharing. I am Shafika Abd Rahim. I am from from Malaysian youth council, so just to disclaimer here. So this presentation will have more photos of the activities in all of our girls.

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And my position in this work is more of an activist in an organizer in doing all about girls activities. So Okay, here we go on. How we explore safe space for collective democratic practices

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in all of our girls. So a little background where we started, because when I was doing my Phd. We found a gap in my research that we didn't include

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more feminist voice on that part, and we found that there is a need for a family space workshop and work in Malaysia because it wasn't normally what the general public would like to be engaged with, or the general youth would like to be associated with.

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So The conversation actually started with my good friend Dr. Hannah Walters, in the Uk. so that's when we discussed on how would be the best way to mediate our messages and about the Democratic practices that we can include to the young people. and of course we need to involve and to get young people to be in the table as well, and then to involve meaningfully

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one. Sorry

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this.

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Thank you.

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So just a little bit about all about girls activities. So all about girls is a consciousness raising workshop that established a creation of safe space for young people to explore their agenda experiences.

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So The workshop covered the following key topics, such as gender, equality, social justice, gender, dynamics, intersectionality, and, of course, experiences across those intersectionalities such as culture.

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religion, and, of course, your position in society, their expectation as status in families, for example. And of course, gender stereotypes. We talk about gender stereotypes. We talk about the role of women in media and how to engage in the media. And then what is the representation of women in the media as well? So

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as in the context of Malaysia? We also face post-colonial struggles which is dispersed, or, although isolated traces of neoliberalism in Malaysia that influence young people's mediation of agency.

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particularly in informal collective participatory settings, such as in youth organisations as part of youth movements in Malaysia. So, as an example of that is, of course, The example of the neoliberal influence in Malaysia is, of course, in terms of funding and requirements for the documentations.

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and how impactful the work that youth organizations as part of youth movement do. And of course the value of those impact has to be translated into monetary values, which I argue here as it is as a form of neoliberal curfew on young people's energy and resources as well.

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So the series of all about girls workshops implement. creative methods that facilitate a creation of safe space for teenagers, women, and also boys and young men as well. So they acknowledged their experiences and through our

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creative methods and art based methods that we implement in the workshops. we also accommodate each other background and individuality and gender. So they will. These workshops with conducted offline face to face, synchronous in schools and activities. We actually conducted 11 series of workshop, including with online.

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and also the indigenous group of young women as well.

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So these are the categories of all of our girls's workshop that we do? which, both online and face to face, we did a lipstick feminism workshop with around asleep woman, or indigenous group of young women in Malaysia because they are the one who requested it.

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So we go into the indigenous people village, and then ask them what kind of activities that they want, so that their voice are being heard or their presence are being acknowledged. And then The the young woman actually requested. Well, we won a makeup or show, so that that is a part of

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themselves, showing that they wanted their presence to be acknowledged by

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using makeup. So we found that it's very interesting because it's coming from themselves. So we did a a makeup workshop as a part of a lipstick families a movement as well. We have the indigenous group of young women. And well, interestingly, they are also men in the vortex as well. So And the Ted categories of all about goals. Workshop is collected. Can V, that we do?

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in canva in conjunction of international day, of the girl child in 2,022.

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So these are a few examples of the postal making workshop. So for online participants, we send off the kids of the items, such as the cards, stickers, origami papers, for example, so interesting.

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Stationaries, colorful, stationary spends and papers for them to do their activities with us. So the poster making purpose here is for them to voice out their own opinion on

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what kind of rights or things, or even whatever that they feel that they wanted to voice out in their agenda that experience In the posters. So as you can see here, a boy from a T-t a institution in Malaysia is engaging as well in the workshop, and

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I'm not sure what he, I guess.

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girls just one

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to have equality. Probably that's what He's voicing out for, and then The next activity that we do is origami as well, where we ask the young girls and young boy to put on the characters that they like, that

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empowered them to voice out their opinion, and why it encouraged them to to involve more in democratic practices, and also to voice out more if they see inequality happens outside in their community.

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We also did some movie screening which also, which to understand the intersectional issues. So we will select

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some movies that are suitable and based on the topics that they they wanted to talk about. So these intersectional issues included our culture history, gender roles that are portrayed in the movie are being discussed. And while watching the movie, they can chat online if they, if

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it was online using the chat box, using your multi-cons and to express your feelings. and during face to face, of course, we we look by their face expression, their discussion with their friends, and by listening to their comments, and also reaction

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by doing that we are creating a safe space for them to express any opinion that cross your mind.

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So these are the example of the poster and memes that we use using canva. This is done during the international day of the girl in collaboration with our partner in the Philippines as well.

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So just a bit on feminism in Malaysian context, where we found that mainly Malaysian women do not want to be called families, because the concept and practice are imported from the West. It is from a white woman perspective, and then it's not

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applicable to local conditions. So we ship the process, and we ship the workshop to make sure that it include all the intersectionalities and all the local traditions and also local philosophy and culture. for us to to understand more, that it is a democratic process. It is a democratic practice, and everyone should work together to make sure that they are in a safe space

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to voice out their opinions and to make sure that their voice are being heard.

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So this is the example that we do in one of the primary school, and what we did is, of course, the democratic values in all about girls workshop our collaborative problem solving which we can see. Some of them are helping each other. The older participants are helping the younger participants, and then we provide

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a respectful environment which we open up for them just to voice out anything. What we found interestingly is because they are not used to have their voice being heard. They are a bit hesitant when we offer them the microphone, because when they hear their voice

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it cool

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across the hall, it seems strange for them. So we know that it is actually something that we need to intervene in. And we need to. We need to intervene with, and we need to encourage them to do that, because it shows that well, that is a democratic values. And we have to respect that values for them, to know that they have to voice out first to be heard, and then, of course, that

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includes, and also relates to engaging with the critical thinking of them as well because they talk about critical issues in militia, such as the issues of citizenship of children for

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whose mothers are Malaysian, but were born overseas and were married to foreign nationalities. So they are struggles in that to emanation. So they talk about very serious issues.

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In Malaysia, even though they are a very young age in secondary school levels. So we know that there are needs and space for these young people to be hurt, and they know that these issues are very important for them to do that.

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So obviously, we want them to be empathetic with each other as well for that. We provide each and every one of them a space to be heard through those activities. So each of them got the space for them to force themselves in the poster, and then through origami papers, and then through creating their own memes and Jeeves in canvas.

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And the the most important thing is, of course, to have that ownership, right, that agency, and then by doing so, we allow them to being able to understand their own changes, and to understand the transformative agency that they have within themselves, and by identifying that they are undergoing those changes, they are also transforming everyone else around them, too.

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So this is one of the outcome of the program where we did a

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exhibition of all. Thank you, Charlotte, of all their posters, and also all their means, and Jeff

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to make sure that it is also being heard by others.

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So if you want to scan the bark, you can access the Virtual at gallery as well.

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I hope you can access it. You can click on the postive.

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and then you can browse through the

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gallery if you have time, and don't worry. I will send you the link as well if you can access it. Thank you.

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All right. So by creating such space and opportunity. We also did some pre and post a test where we found out that 80% of female participants feel empowered to begin to talk about and promote gender-based rights, and also 80% of the male participants feel confidence to challenge harmfuls, gender stereotypes if they heard, or if they encounter it in in schools or in their educational

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institutions, or in their workplace. And one of the

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for the outcomes is, we

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finished to debit a motion in the National Youth Conservative Council about increasing the allocated fund for women and girls participation in steam fields

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to the government. In that case. So yeah, feel free to to connect with us if you want to collaborate more. And yeah, this is still a a work in progress, and I'm still right to the paper, so I would welcome any comments if you wanted to. comments on it. Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much. If I could.

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we're going to move on to our final presentation, which will be online. and that is Debatah Chakraborti, who will be speaking about gendered racialized phobic coalitions. thank you, Josie.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: so much.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: Should I go ahead and share my screen?

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Yes, I do.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: You can.

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Debadatta Chakraborty:  Can you see the slides. Now.

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Okay.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: thanks so much. Okay. So I have a long title of this presentation. It's on the screen. So I'm not going to read it out, but I have a I do have a quick

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Debadatta Chakraborty: you know announcement as well. I have a terrible sore throat, as you might understand. so speaking is a little difficult. So if I call for if I have to pause to take a you know, take a sip of water. I'm really sorry about that.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: But if there's something that's not here because of my voice, because it's breaking, I'd be happy to repeat if you have questions. if you have questions on that. So I'm really sorry that you know I'm I have to present with such a voice today

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Debadatta Chakraborty: my apologies for that.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: so so moving on. what I'm going to talk about today is also a part of my, I'm so I'm a Phd. Student at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. and what I'm going to be talking about today is

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Debadatta Chakraborty: a small part of a a chapter of my Phd decision. This is. I'm I'm sort of made way through my data collection. So these are very early teams that I see sort of emerging. So again, any feedback would be support helpful for me at this point

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Debadatta Chakraborty: so jumping ahead I wanted to first draw your attention to this image that you see on the screen?

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Debadatta Chakraborty:  so on the left. What you see is this image from fourteenth of August to one to 2,022. This is an image from what is called an annual.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: I'm so sorry.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: Annual India, April it that happens every year in New Jersey, in in the city called Edison, of New Jersey, in the Us. Where Indians you know, celebrate Indian Independence Day on August. I mean the Independence days on August 15. But this image was this was celebrated on August fourteenth, last year.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: What you see the image is one of the parade floats that had the picture of A chief minister from the State of Otta production, India, and then this this the writing that you see is in he, and it reads.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: which which literally is is, can be translated as fathers will do. Now, why this was Why this is important is because in that particular year there was a lot of controversy around this parade parade float, because the bulldozer, this particular machine has actually become

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Debadatta Chakraborty: a part of the right wing. Hindu government. which or Hindu right wing government, I should say, which is really India at this point from 2,014 onwards. So it is. It has become a part of their State machinery to sort of demolish homes of middle and working class. Muslims

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Debadatta Chakraborty: in in. And this this kind of started. you know, this case started around you know, spring and summer of 2,022, and it continues now. And so the bulldozer has kind of become a symbol, a single of itslamophobic violence in India at this point

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Debadatta Chakraborty: moving on on the right. What you see is another picture from the same month, August 2,022. And this this is a picture of a police handling a rive that broke out between Hindu and Muslim inhabitants in a multicultural immigrant populated heath to peaceful city in in either to University of leisure in the Uk. So the first picture on the left is from the Us. The second is from the Uk.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: And this right broke out, following a tense India Pakistan cricket match

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Debadatta Chakraborty: that was happening in Dubai.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: And it, I mean, if you know something about South Asia, you would know that India Pakistan is always coded as Hindu Muslim in the South Asian context. And so you know.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: because of this ride, what happened was about 300 Hindu youth.

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Debadatta Chakraborty:  Shouting Islamophobic slogans march down the streets, streets of Leicester, where Muslims were praying

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Debadatta Chakraborty: in response around 200 Muslim mute march down the Hindu city area to ripping down flags from a Hindu temple.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: So political commentators who kind of talk about these incidents that are happening in the Us. In the Uk and many other parts of the world as well. They kind of talk about how these incidents represent the Indian dyes for as increasing adoption of the in the right wing rule, or what is also known as in the work that you see on the screen at the top

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Debadatta Chakraborty: from back home, and what is often highlighted is the role of the youth in in these. You know, in these incidents of violence, both as perpetrating this violence and also in a swaging these political tension.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: So

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the same way

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Debadatta Chakraborty: you see on the screen now are some quotes from young people in the Us. From Indian heritage that I have interviewed to understand their views about this kind of a Hindu right-wing rule that we are seeing in India, and the part that dies for a place in it, because we are seeing. You know, these tensions within the dice for are increasingly the full first code that you see is for, and of course all the names are pseudonym to protect the identity of my respondents.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: The first code that you see is from a 21 year old first year. College student who is also a female leader of

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Debadatta Chakraborty: for Hindu American faith, based group based in Boston.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: And she kind of talked about. You know how she shared with me, how she thinks that in the civilization and religion teaches tolerance and peace, and she

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Debadatta Chakraborty: and the current Bjp. Government, which is the right, being a ruling party in India right now for this strong in the Nationalist stance, and she says that we, the dice for her are learning how to assertively present in the voices from them, otherwise will be trampled on by something that she that she and many others you know, on, on, on. Who who are kind of followers of the Hindu right wing ideology, say, is Hindu phobia

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Debadatta Chakraborty: In contrast another person that I spoke to. some, again, a pseudonym who is a 26 year old, non-binary executive director of a Washington, DC. Based progressive into American group told me that Hindu phobia is a new term that is often used by dyesboric. He do right between groups to claim that protest against in the attacks on Hinduism, and therefore are in the phobic, and he kind of they kind of explain how it's often used to counter claims of Islamophobia.

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Debadatta Chakraborty:  There is also this initiative called understanding hindophobia, that that is a diasporic initiative, a a collaboration largely between Uk and us. you know, in the writing groups that which is largely run by younger folks some of whom I've been able to interview.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: And you know,

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Debadatta Chakraborty: this is a definition of Hinduphobia from their website that you see on the screen this idea that you know it is a set of antagonistic, destructive, and they get re attitudes to

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Debadatta Chakraborty: and and many of my participants, including our key here sort of subscribes to this particular kind of an understanding of the notion of Hindu. Yeah. So

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Debadatta Chakraborty: in this context, some of the guys, what I'm trying to understand is, why do some Indian American use? Because my, my, my

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Debadatta Chakraborty: my research is focused on, you know. Nationalist politics of the Indian diaspora in the Us. So I try to understand why some Indian American youth turn towards, and others away from Hindu, you know, to again being this in the rightening rule. And how is this ideology of in which were being produced through youth mobilization in the Us. Indian diaspora. And and how is it being resisted as well?

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Debadatta Chakraborty: And how do certain transnational, Indian diasporic, community-based organizations that are actually headquartered in India. They employ a certain kind of pedagogy to mobilize youth

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Debadatta Chakraborty: against both for and against this transparency in the Us. And

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Debadatta Chakraborty: So I ask these questions to understand how? you know this, this bolstering of the Hindu far right that we see is actually a part of a contemporary expansion of right wing forces globally. And and you know, what is very interesting is that often when we talk about right wing, global march, at least in the context of the Us. Academy, where I am based.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: Almost all the focus is on white supremacy which kind of makes us lose sight of the attendant post-colonian forms of transational authoritarianism like. In

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Debadatta Chakraborty: so in my project, therefore, I look at this transnational authoritarian project and dice for it. Politics, focusing specifically on the Nationalist politics of the Indian dice for out, and I try to therefore, understand how Indian origin youth in the Us. And Indian youth in India, because I do feel well both in India and the Us. who are kind of connected to these us Indian organizations. How they understand this right being movement, and how they how how they resist it or support it.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: So I I have a little bit of a context of in the way here. I wouldn't be going to the details of it because of lack of time. But just to kind of give you a brief definition. It is this idea that it's a modern political ideology that advocates, for in the supremacy seeks to transform the country of India, which is constitutionally a secular state into an it's not religious nation that is known as the Indul or the Indonesian. And this definition is from this, This is the the acronym that you see here as as a is a South Asian scholar, activist, collective

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Debadatta Chakraborty: and they kind of talk about how it's an official platform of the current ruling party, which is the Bjp. Or the the party, and how parts of the Indian diaspora also. you know, champion, this, this ideology, and how there are connections between Hindu and European internationalist ideologies, and how some pillows of are, you know, Islamophobia and a promotion of a Hindu male uppercast culture.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: and how it is a part of a very well organized and Ra. Long running movement, even though this particular political party was elected to power only in 2,014. But it's it's a part of a long movement

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Debadatta Chakraborty: For for kind of understanding these processes I

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Debadatta Chakraborty: I try to draw from 3 3 literatures or 3 theoretical frameworks, one that focuses on Hindu nationalism, identity, formation and youth activism in the global Indian diaspora, one that draws from Hindu nationalism.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: particularly use of a certain kind of gender, racialized and cast-based religious ideology, and the other that kind of highlights, the overlaps between internationalism and white nationalism.

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Debadatta Chakraborty:  I try to and like, I said, I'm sort of mid the way with my data collection. So so far, I have about 51. I've completed about 51 interviews and I'm doing more. And these interviews are with us Indian diasporic organizations, specifically their youth members

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Debadatta Chakraborty: and also members and employees of, or even volunteers of certain transnational Hindu community based organizations that are located in Delhi that focus on reaching out to You know, youth within the Us. Indian diaspora, and for these same organizations I've I've conducted multi-sided ethnography both in the Us. And in India, in events, meetings, informal gatherings, youth camps. In fact, I just came back from a youth camp in New Jersey day before.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: which is where I got my my cold and back throat. And I've to to kind of gain some background knowledge.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: I've also done a little bit of research on these organizations from the national Archives of India intel

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Debadatta Chakraborty: So

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Debadatta Chakraborty: with that. sort of you know, research method, or with through these combination of research methods, I'm kind of going to talk about what are the preliminary things that I see. And today, for the of time, I'll probably just be able to focus on 2. So one is this sort of intense

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Debadatta Chakraborty: sort of battle between the Hindu right and the, if I can call it the left, or maybe folks who push back against it or progress it in those as some of them like to call themselves. Oh, there's this battle, you know, between these 2 groups over over books. You know how in this. And should we talked about books in the dice for

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Debadatta Chakraborty: you know, in also back, in terms of belonging to academic spaces, that notion of decolonization and the particular way in which in Lupa understands decolonization and youth, mobilization overall and and all the. And you know.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: is it 3 min already? Oh, my God, okay.

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thank you so much.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: So so I'd probably be able to focus on one big team in the last few minutes. So what I'm gonna do you know, I have a few quotes? you know, both from my interviews and certain codes that I've received when I was doing field work. You know, in in this organization that I have.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: that I'm calling in the foundation. This is also a single name. And they talk about how fixing textbooks is extremely important. Because if you do not fix how Hinduism is talked about in our social science classes in in you know.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: they can do for big races left with malign Hinduism and target in new kids. And by kids they mean schools and colleges or kids in schools and colleges across America. There's this other controversy called the California textbook controversy, that they that is discussed a lot, which is basically how there was a controversy about how in this, and should be represented in textbooks in California.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: And you know there's this idea that you know in the world are represented as second class citizens and the the the push back to it from the folks of the more conservative folks is that you know. this is a travesty. We need to stop it. Because, you know, our kids are otherwise not learning the right history.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: Another code that I have here is actually from a 23 year old.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: young woman, who talks about how in the Us. There's a complete denial of Hindu history, especially in Academy. So Academy is a big battleground, and they would talk about how in reality, you know, they are not Islamophobic, but it's in those who are instead being persecuted, and they are the only ones who are talking about it, and they talk about you know how, if we don't, how would they don't push back? You know they would be no in this lip. So this is sort of some of some of the ideas. And

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Debadatta Chakraborty: in this context. you know, in the context of use, mobilization. What I've seen is that there is there being 2 conferences to Academy conferences that have been

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Debadatta Chakraborty: organized almost exclusively by, you know the Hindu Students Council. So the young people who are involved within the Student Council in into universities, in the Us. Rugby's University in 2,021, and Boston University in 2,022, which sort of tries to push back against this notion of Hindu Phobia and one of the professors. From this, from one of the new universities in the Us. That I spoke to, who myself does not

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Debadatta Chakraborty: essentially qualify as youth. We she's 37 years on, but then, you know, she works with the young people who are organizing this conference, and she talks about how in the phobia is this notion of epistemic injustice? And you know how? Because the idea is that how they are not discriminated on the basis of their but again, their knowledge traditions, and therefore they talk about how

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Debadatta Chakraborty: this This initiative of understanding in the phobia is an exercise of decolonization. because, you know, they are trying to build a community and build. you know the field of h new studies together and and she kind of emphasize how it's how especially crucial it is, for they do you who are growing up in the Us. Today. And and that kind of explains how this conference was. Kind of how these conferences were kind of where I'm just going to wrap up. Thank you.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: Was was was conducted, or was organized by the overall. So kind of to wrap up. What I would see is that? there is what we see is, you know.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: a battle that is going on between. you know the right and the left in this context and youth, mobilization is a central aspect

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Debadatta Chakraborty: on on both the sides. that we see. you know. where you are being utilized and mobilized So I think I'm going to stop here. but you know I would love to talk about more teams if I have the time during the Q. And A. And I'm sorry for going a little bit. Thank you very much.

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You can. We can see that you in the middle of your data collection. I'm going to ask Rob Watts to come and give us a couple of comments and an overview, and then we'll open for questions over to you, Rob.

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It's great to see so many people still here

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as we

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come to the end of an exhausting but interesting week when Judas and I thought about this session. we certainly wanted to encourage reflection on the choices

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that are implicit in the very reference to the idea of crisis crisis is not something to be worried about. Crisis is that moment of judgment.

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It comes from the Greek jurisprudential moment that we've heard the evidence. And now we need to make a choice, a decision as to where we go now.

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The need for that choice is now more overwhelming. then, at any point, perhaps in human history.

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That feature of the world which so often escapes us is what I think, all of our

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panelists and presenters. We're drawing our attention to the

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Jenina, George and Matt, Cecile, Shafika, and Debbie data have each reflected on the crisis of democracy in a beautiful way. I think

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they've addressed questions of who descends, and why and how do they do it?

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What are the pressures not to descent? What other encourages the enablers of descent, and what forms

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in that descent

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and choice. Take

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with Jacques-runcier Judas, and I think that politics is intrinsically democratic, because it's the activity of those without a part

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seeking a part.

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There are so many groups that are excluded, invisibleized.

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repressed.

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And we need to think about what that means. In the current context.

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Democracy is always, as Sheldon, Wallace observed, 70 years ago. Fugitive. It's in hiding.

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It's under tech. and we need to

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re-energize. We support

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the context in which we now

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deliberate

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has been described by the late

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Bruno Latour

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a context of deep crisis. He calls it the climactic regime

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in which not merely are we facing

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climactic catastrophe, we are facing the consequences of decades now of cascading inequalities which are not going away.

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They are being exacerbated, they are increasing, and they call for a response

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what our panelists, I think, have shown us is that the old idea of the political.

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as that which governments do is now utterly

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utterly irrelevant.

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utterly mischievous and misleading and unhelpful.

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What I think each of the panelists of

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reflected on. And it's not just in this session, but other sessions in the previous week is that it is now in the

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mundane world of ordinary people. and particularly young people.

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that we begin to see new possibilities, and that was the inclination. When Judith and I thought about a session like this, we didn't know we'd be at the very end of this conference. We're hoping to be the start, but it's a good place, perhaps, to be reflecting back.

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I think.

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to be just a little provocative, a fundamental question for now.

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and it was raised recently by.

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I've forgotten the name.

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And Norman, Susan, don't, Nyman.

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It's a book called

444
01:23:53.060 --> 01:24:02.360
Brand New, she she writes books about the moral clarity, the question of evil in modern thought that this most recent book is not woke left.

445
01:24:03.150 --> 01:24:07.230
She's not just getting stuck into the woke left. She's getting stuck into the woke right.

446
01:24:07.330 --> 01:24:13.139
both right and left, awoke when they woke, and they're not helpful. They put us to sleep.

447
01:24:13.570 --> 01:24:17.730
If the relational perspective.

448
01:24:18.420 --> 01:24:24.040
espoused by people like Buddha, like all sorts of other people. He's right. It reminds us that

449
01:24:24.150 --> 01:24:25.740
they are not fixed

450
01:24:25.870 --> 01:24:36.970
substances at stake here, right and left are relational. They're positioning against each other. And what is at stake is the question of what are they speaking for? What are they holding out?

451
01:24:37.670 --> 01:24:43.420
If politics, as Han Slugger put it, in 2,014 is a discussion about justice.

452
01:24:44.500 --> 01:24:50.940
The question of justice, as Socrates put it many years ago. the question of what do we owe

453
01:24:51.320 --> 01:24:52.309
to each other.

454
01:24:53.750 --> 01:24:59.500
The deliberative process that leads to good answers to that question is not going to be helped

455
01:24:59.960 --> 01:25:03.180
if we keep perpetuating identity politics.

456
01:25:03.720 --> 01:25:09.729
Now, I'm not going to say any more on that you will know what I'm referring to. It is the claim that I am a victim

457
01:25:10.090 --> 01:25:15.539
positioned in structural terms, because you who that is is the oppressor

458
01:25:15.640 --> 01:25:20.690
that is identity politics, and is not helpful. Nyman's point

459
01:25:21.080 --> 01:25:26.019
that there have to be some other way of thinking about justice other than the

460
01:25:26.050 --> 01:25:31.489
my position versus your position. Justice is a relational

461
01:25:31.760 --> 01:25:36.439
question, a relational practice, and we need to be able to think better about it

462
01:25:37.490 --> 01:25:38.910
when

463
01:25:40.400 --> 01:25:41.500
Latour

464
01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:45.080
talks to the question of climactic regime.

465
01:25:45.690 --> 01:25:57.719
he is posing serious questions. not just about this little place or this little community. but the discernment now that this is the only place we have.

466
01:25:58.650 --> 01:26:04.570
It's one little place. It's the home for all of us, and we'll have to learn to do better if we're to live together

467
01:26:05.250 --> 01:26:07.690
with that provocation. I sit down and shut up

468
01:26:15.250 --> 01:26:30.319
this season. I'm in book. So, colleagues, if you've got a question, please, why don't you come up to the mic and and and answered, ask it. And if you have a question online, Sarah, please go ahead

469
01:26:30.440 --> 01:26:35.329
first, you, Sarah, but the rest of you, won't you? Just if anybody's got a question, why don't you just come to the mic?

470
01:26:35.390 --> 01:26:36.760
Go ahead, Sarah.

471
01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:57.079
Sarah Pickard: Sarah, you you you look shell sure. Thank you very much, Charlene, and thank you to I. Oh, yeah, I've been travelling, and I've just got back to Paris, and I don't know if you know what's happening in Paris. But there's right in the suburbs and in central Paris. And so my question obviously goes to.

472
01:26:57.380 --> 01:27:05.049
Sarah Pickard: we work together on Collair on anger, and I know you're far away. But what? How do you?

473
01:27:05.110 --> 01:27:27.379
Sarah Pickard: It's putting on the spot. How do you explain why young people living in the suburbs are so angry they burn their local neighborhood, they burn supermarkets, their cars, the schools. And why? Why would they do that rather than the power holders, places, and cars. Why do they do on their neighborhoods? It's something it's

474
01:27:27.410 --> 01:27:45.849
sorry that a bit heavy, so I'd be heavy as an opener. That's a, that's a good question. Yeah, And I'm gonna take a whole bunch of questions. And then people can answer the. And and also, if you want to take opportunity to make a comment in response to Rob's provocations. Please do that. But did I see some hands in this in the room?

475
01:27:46.020 --> 01:27:47.939
Please come and ask some questions.

476
01:27:49.570 --> 01:28:01.529
And, Cecil, please, won't you? Also? I mean, maybe I missed it. But you said you you did a comparative study, but we're in Canada, or I mean, but won't you just tell us a little bit more about the the context of your study? Go ahead.

477
01:28:01.770 --> 01:28:02.670
did you?

478
01:28:03.670 --> 01:28:04.520
Hmm.

479
01:28:05.340 --> 01:28:15.060
yeah, thank you so much for your presentations. As usual. My questions are half-cooked, so it's just going to come out.

480
01:28:15.320 --> 01:28:30.980
I really appreciated you all in your own different ways speaking about like political power relations. And you know, thinking about this topic of social transformation, you know, in different ways, spoke about young people as consumers or citizens or activists, or the ordinary, and

481
01:28:31.100 --> 01:28:42.810
often their actions being in relation to the State or to corporations, or to schools, or like gendered injustice. And, Cecil, you really helped us understand this notion of systems that they're fighting against. And

482
01:28:42.920 --> 01:28:55.340
 this is a really broad question. So my apologies, if it doesn't fit for all of you to respond to. But I guess my question is, what's our role as academics in the process?

483
01:28:55.370 --> 01:29:17.079
 in this process, you know, thinking about what you've learned now, like these things that we know about what young people are doing? What is our role in the research that we're doing like if we're thinking like when we come back together in Korea, what what should we have been looking at? What should we be doing to support the thinking and the building and the movement of these social transformations.

484
01:29:17.830 --> 01:29:21.340
Thanks very much, Jenya. Is there another question, Karlos.

485
01:29:26.760 --> 01:29:40.840
I am interesting on the metaphor of silence and noise in social movements, but also for everyone how to investigate that

486
01:29:40.840 --> 01:30:10.519
advising a Phd. Specifically about the silence into social movements, that the these re-re 12 of the minutes of silence in black lives matter, and in Mexico and Ayodoxy, Napa, when some people were killing, and that the silence is also a. A, a, a new way of provocation, of course, very different of parties by fire, that it's the opposite. But how the we can, and notography silence where there is nothing to to say.

487
01:30:11.610 --> 01:30:14.690
Thank you, Carlos. Come, please come to the front.

488
01:30:20.720 --> 01:30:40.799
Shafika. I have another question for you. What would have happened if the young woman in your group wanted to do something that you didn't agree with make up is one issue. But whatever that they wanted to know or do something that maybe contrasted with your own values or feminist values. What might you have done?

489
01:30:41.900 --> 01:30:43.030
Please go ahead.

490
01:30:43.140 --> 01:30:48.870
Okay. So I have a question for 3, sure.

491
01:30:49.290 --> 01:30:50.710
for

492
01:30:51.530 --> 01:30:54.030
Dr. Cairo.

493
01:30:54.200 --> 01:30:54.950
Correct.

494
01:30:55.120 --> 01:31:00.539
I I got the impression that when you were speaking about political consumerism

495
01:31:00.590 --> 01:31:03.300
you were talking about individuals

496
01:31:03.320 --> 01:31:05.989
as as individual action.

497
01:31:06.220 --> 01:31:12.249
and I was wondering how it relates to the role of organizations. And this state.

498
01:31:12.600 --> 01:31:17.459
when you talk about boycott, the first thing I thought about was Pds.

499
01:31:17.710 --> 01:31:21.430
Why not diverse sanction with regard to Palestine?

500
01:31:21.570 --> 01:31:32.320
We've gone to Israel. And of course there was that movement against South Africa during apartheid times?

501
01:31:32.710 --> 01:31:48.850
Where is the concept of political continuism come in when it comes to the actions of organizations and states or macro movements like Mal Bidds with regard to Israel. But that's my question for you, for Dr. Shafika.

502
01:31:49.000 --> 01:31:53.439
you mentioned something interesting about feminism, about how many

503
01:31:53.640 --> 01:31:55.659
women in Malaysia are not

504
01:31:55.970 --> 01:31:58.479
are against feminism as a mixture of

505
01:31:58.600 --> 01:32:01.359
 And, in fact, as you know.

506
01:32:01.860 --> 01:32:05.679
it's not only not accepted, but this

507
01:32:05.990 --> 01:32:12.379
among certain circles, conservative circles feminism is seen as religiously Dvm.

508
01:32:12.730 --> 01:32:16.679
But at the same time there are Communism.

509
01:32:16.730 --> 01:32:17.879
I think others

510
01:32:18.460 --> 01:32:24.660
in Malaysia do accept that there is a universal dimension to Feminism that it's possible to be in this one

511
01:32:24.750 --> 01:32:32.600
10 min at the same time. So I was wondering whether the girls that you encountered

512
01:32:33.590 --> 01:32:38.839
what is the range of views or opinions about feminism.

513
01:32:39.470 --> 01:32:40.909
Yeah, so that's my

514
01:32:41.270 --> 01:32:45.309
your question to you. And so, Dr. Chakabati, she's here. Here.

515
01:32:45.500 --> 01:32:48.109
Yeah, you are there! Can you hear me?

516
01:32:49.370 --> 01:32:51.210
Debadatta Chakraborty: Very faintly.

517
01:32:51.310 --> 01:32:55.260
Oh, maybe come and stand here for her question.

518
01:32:57.030 --> 01:33:07.280
can you hear me now? Okay, okay, so I I I thought your your presentation was very interesting and and important.

519
01:33:07.650 --> 01:33:18.560
and I I obviously sympathize with you know the the critique of of Hindu thinking and ideology, and so on.

520
01:33:18.590 --> 01:33:29.540
But at the same time I realized that some of their grievances. are reasonable. In other words, the the

521
01:33:29.680 --> 01:33:45.140
they understand their critique of how they are constructed, or how Hinduism is constructed or ignored or silenced in American textbooks, for example, they they are referring to what we would call Orientalist. constructions of Hinduism, for example.

522
01:33:45.140 --> 01:33:59.720
So how do you you know, balance, you know, between recognizing the reasonable grievances on the one hand and the program which is obviously Islamophobic and and so on.

523
01:33:59.920 --> 01:34:01.199
yeah.

524
01:34:02.900 --> 01:34:06.950
ever a question from you, and I think use this, Mike, if you don't mind.

525
01:34:11.080 --> 01:34:27.039
Yes, thank you. That was a a very good session already, and I have 2 questions, first by Anina. I only sorry I heard the I had to run from Crown, so I heard the end. But I you said something at the end that you need to create spaces for descent.

526
01:34:27.040 --> 01:34:54.139
and I wonder if you can, because I for me, like the sentence against structures, in a sense, you know. So so so if you create spaces that this will cease to be descent. So somehow that that may be comp. I was thinking, maybe competences for this. But then I wondered, like in whose interest actually, it is to create descent, you know not maybe not teachers at school and And then the second question is to Cecilia about you Because I was interested about the second group of

527
01:34:54.260 --> 01:35:09.409
people who are in fatigue. Yes, and who use it. They don't collect device. But I was thinking about professional groups, for example, because there is a collectivization. But it's not a generational somehow.

528
01:35:09.460 --> 01:35:16.540
So yeah, so I thought that maybe there, there is some collectivity. But it's just not a generational. Thank you.

529
01:35:20.050 --> 01:35:23.480
You want to answer. Or you want to ask you and ask.

530
01:35:23.850 --> 01:35:44.600
yes, I'm good. I'm like, Oh, this one of the speakers wants to ask a question. Thank you. No. My question. This other is to say again and first of all, thank you all for a very, very thought provoking presentation. All of the presentations, for that matter. I particularly like to see you over a distinction or a

531
01:35:44.740 --> 01:35:50.529
I'm not entirely sure if it was a distinction. Somehow you are simulated. The concepts of hope and language

532
01:35:50.640 --> 01:35:55.190
altogether, which I found it very packant, but very, very interesting as well.

533
01:35:55.210 --> 01:36:03.929
But at the same time you also talk about the invisible language, and you made another yet another distinction between the source

534
01:36:04.080 --> 01:36:07.310
of anger as opposed to the target of anger.

535
01:36:07.740 --> 01:36:16.790
and I was wondering I couldn't help but to wonder whether this conceptualization of invisible anger and maybe response back to the question about

536
01:36:16.810 --> 01:36:20.269
the ethnography of silence that he posed earlier

537
01:36:20.540 --> 01:36:27.029
or for the even. He talked about the system. And my question is.

538
01:36:27.340 --> 01:36:31.769
would you risk an assumption about where this system actually refers to? Or is

539
01:36:32.280 --> 01:36:35.729
the system as another way to anonymize the target?

540
01:36:36.180 --> 01:36:40.750
Are we referring to? Is it a person? Is it an ideology? Is it the man?

541
01:36:40.990 --> 01:36:43.720
What is this system actually referring to?

542
01:36:45.070 --> 01:37:12.650
Thank you, Joseph? I have a question for Jenina. Jenina, there's a yeah. The chairs asking a question. but I was very struck by the distinction between. What is it that youthful politics is meant to be achieving? Is it community change, or is it systemic change? And I'd like you to say some more about that, because I'm also interested to know. you said that you were going to look at class

543
01:37:12.650 --> 01:37:40.260
mixed in your examination of youth in rural Germany. But where about was your group of young people? Was it the old Eastern Germany, or what part of the rural area? Because I think that whole distinction between systemic change and individual or community change is really important for us all in how we work with young people around political mobilisation

544
01:37:40.260 --> 01:37:51.230
Debadatta Chakraborty: and in the Badata. Do you have a question, or do you want to start by answering a question? I actually had a super quick question that's very connected to one of the questions that got asked to Dr. Shavika.

545
01:37:51.230 --> 01:37:54.210
Debadatta Chakraborty: So that's why I can I go ahead?

546
01:37:54.270 --> 01:38:06.179
Debadatta Chakraborty: Go ahead. Yeah. So my question was also around this idea of. you know, feminism as a Western notion that you talked about. And I was thinking about how all the activities that all about girls is doing

547
01:38:06.180 --> 01:38:33.859
Debadatta Chakraborty: what sort of qualified as feminist activities? Right? So I'm I'm kind of curious to understand, you know, if like. What would you say is, then the Malaysian sort of local, indigenous understanding of what Feminism is? Is there an alternative term that they would use instead of feminism like? How would they define feminism in light of the activities that you know they are all doing as a part of this organization. So that that was my question. Thank you.

548
01:38:34.160 --> 01:38:47.700
Fantastic. So we've got a whole bunch of questions. Georgia, start with you. You can stand here for 1 min and answer any question directed towards you. But okay. Who would like to start to seal? Would you like to start?

549
01:38:49.170 --> 01:38:51.390
We don't.

550
01:38:51.530 --> 01:38:58.040
Oh, why don't you come and stand here so that they can hear but just 1 min I will take you when you miss

551
01:39:02.950 --> 01:39:04.360
Sarah Pickard: to. Just

552
01:39:04.420 --> 01:39:07.780
Sarah Pickard: can you sit down? Sorry because we can't see you?

553
01:39:25.730 --> 01:39:50.380
I don't know. I I would disagree. I don't. I don't describe. Political, or at least I don't understand. Political consumer is must in the visualized phenomenon instead, or rather, on the contrary, I argue against the individualized understanding of former definitions at the end of the day, however, it's not up to me to answer the question. I'm I'm asking my respondents and

554
01:39:51.900 --> 01:40:00.799
What my findings suggest were that my respondents don't perceive political consumerism as an individualized phenomenon

555
01:40:01.200 --> 01:40:04.530
rather than a more collective one.

556
01:40:05.200 --> 01:40:13.110
with the slight exception that this collectiveness does not apply. It does not seem to apply any longer on the national dimension.

557
01:40:14.130 --> 01:40:23.900
so it kind of deviates from conceptions as the Pds or the upper height of the or the for that respect.

558
01:40:23.990 --> 01:40:39.629
Instead, however, it expands even further to a compass the planet and the environment also as a whole, it moves beyond the Anthropocene. And what I argue is that it is this individual and collective, whatever that collective might be.

559
01:40:39.820 --> 01:40:42.400
that renders it political in the first place.

560
01:40:43.830 --> 01:40:44.620
Okay.

561
01:40:44.750 --> 01:41:08.289
thank you, Georgia Cecil. I think you had about 10 questions. So thank you all for your question first. thank you for your question. I I would be very interested to hear your your point of view, your perspective for me. What's what's striking? It's in the dynamics of anger. You always have

562
01:41:08.350 --> 01:41:37.490
what I call a revealing scene, something that ignites a a, a. A direct anger linked to the scene. But not only it can ignite years. And in this case of the French volume, decades of collective humiliation and individual frustration, or to make it justization 2 in the public space. And so it's for me. It's really what.

563
01:41:37.620 --> 01:42:02.660
I can see now. It's one scene which is so strong, but it's decades of frustration that is, that that is expressed in it and about your specific question. So why schools in their areas I don't know. But I can feel I must think, and I must go on site, but I can. I can feel that there is something like breaking the framework of the dialogue.

564
01:42:02.660 --> 01:42:25.620
so not comply to the proposed from work of dialogue and go at proximity. Or it's just a a hypothesis about our role dinner. It's really interesting, too, for in my case, I it's it's

565
01:42:25.730 --> 01:42:48.619
it's difficult. I think we can not only relay a voice With different words. Convey but also, maybe, if we can think to direct political proposals. for me, I like it. I can understand. It's not consensual in sociology, but I think it can be meaningful.

566
01:42:48.620 --> 01:42:58.229
For the ethnographic of silence, Carlos, thank you, too. I think it's so interesting, because for me silence is full of noise.

567
01:42:58.230 --> 01:42:59.920
You can't separate.

568
01:42:59.920 --> 01:43:18.049
And silence exist because of noise. So it's intricated. It's the same object. And so I think it's very meaningful. And I'm reading now, more theory of effects.

569
01:43:18.049 --> 01:43:42.910
we've we've going into mo. This, the field of emotions. I discover the concept of flows and intensities. And so not to think with categories or dichotomies so Northern silence. But to to see now is silence and the different intensity, and flows between both, I think, in a dynamic perspective. I think it's it's very fruitful.

570
01:43:42.930 --> 01:44:04.180
the comparison! Thank you. So it's I've I've been to 5 cities where there were some protests at first, because it was my first object. So it's Montreal, Santiago de Chile. Madrid, Paris. So there is Paris and Hong Kong. Yeah.

571
01:44:04.280 --> 01:44:06.459
So. and

572
01:44:06.770 --> 01:44:17.829
yes, thank you about people in fatigue. I totally agree with you. They can be collectivised. But what I think

573
01:44:17.900 --> 01:44:38.590
it's even when they are collectivized, for example, not in a generation or Or identity collective identity, but in a professional collective identity. the cause. And we says, the the the that is publicly voiced.

574
01:44:38.620 --> 01:44:48.080
It's not really the same, because you need to find collective words and connective targets. It's not exactly the same

575
01:44:48.120 --> 01:45:04.250
as the individual cause. The experienced coast and causes are not the same as the one that will be expressed in the public space. And so, even when it's connectivised

576
01:45:04.250 --> 01:45:20.900
it. One of the case where there is the revolt, the collective revolt won't exhaust the individual feeling of a revolt of anger or exhaustion. And so it is.

577
01:45:21.020 --> 01:45:26.259
It's it's complicated. Because this social collective action.

578
01:45:26.610 --> 01:45:28.419
it doesn't. It's not enough.

579
01:45:28.670 --> 01:45:51.680
I have to come back to the camera. And finally, thank you for your question, too. for me, it's it's really the question I I have been thinking of. for the last year. Why this work system? It's

580
01:45:51.680 --> 01:46:00.030
I'm sure it's key to understand the revolt today. And for me it's a way to name

581
01:46:00.300 --> 01:46:04.050
a configuration of power that exists.

582
01:46:04.150 --> 01:46:22.490
But we don't have so much word. And we we need a word to name it. And it's not in your name. It's a real relationship, but it's not an ideology, but I think it's the name we have today, because we have a configuration, configuration of power, multiple.

583
01:46:22.490 --> 01:46:39.739
transnational and national and local at the same time, and so we can feel something, and I'll call it the Impossible Enemy, because we name this power. But it's a power we can't reach. And so it's a word that helped to collectivize the reverse because we need

584
01:46:39.740 --> 01:47:00.640
a name. But there is also something behind. It is not abstract. We name it because it is the power we have today, and it explains a lot for me to the dynamics of revolts, because it is not easy to name and to fight against the system. But of course it is subjective, because each one

585
01:47:00.810 --> 01:47:19.599
has its own definition of the system, because the system is what's hurt, what is just hurting us. But but it's different from the countries. I can see different figures of system according to the societies. But there is something behind common. I think it's this set of power.

586
01:47:19.600 --> 01:47:32.110
E, C.

587
01:47:32.120 --> 01:47:33.300
Of the

588
01:47:34.650 --> 01:47:41.160
yeah. Ok. Janina, would you come and do your answers? And then Shafika? And then, Deborah, but

589
01:47:41.580 --> 01:48:08.200
we've got a few more minutes. Okay, I'll try to keep this short. So thanks for the questions. for Dennis question. I think one of the things we should be doing at the moment is to contextualize research. So thinking about who we're actually talking to, who they are, where they live, because I think it really impacts. Then the policy we make and based on this research, I mean, it doesn't always happen. But if it does, it should really then be geared towards that specific context.

590
01:48:08.340 --> 01:48:32.519
And and another thing, I think, as researchers at the moment is to really work with young people in our research and not research about them without consulting them. And I mean your session, Harriet and Dana. We're in the session. you know, coal research. I think it's such an important piece at the moment, and for us as researchers. And then about every question. I understand what you mean. I've been thinking a lot about this, too.

591
01:48:32.520 --> 01:48:44.699
But I still think So do recall schools, miniature communities. And I think that's what they are. And so it's a it's a good space for young people to practice this sort of activism and being a citizen.

592
01:48:44.700 --> 01:49:07.200
And so I don't see the word space as a fixed place at the school, but as a shifting concept. And so, for example, with that quote, when the student was saying something about not being allowed to wear crop tops. Then I think this is where the teacher could have created a space for dissent by saying, Okay, let's talk about this. What should our

593
01:49:07.270 --> 01:49:22.139
code of. You know the school. B. What should our uniform be? And then, I think, like experiencing success within this miniature community, can then translate into the sort of bigger community where they then think, okay, I can actually dissent with something and have success with them.

594
01:49:22.590 --> 01:49:41.279
and then the final comment, Charlene. So my next kind of step is more about place, really looking at place more. And how? I can sort of develop some concepts around it. but I think class is also an interesting idea definitely, and I think it's integrated with place to.

595
01:49:41.340 --> 01:49:51.069
And so the study was from the Black Forest without wanting to discourse more. But it's the Western West Germany.

596
01:49:52.100 --> 01:50:13.920
I think you had a second question between systemic change. Yeah, yeah, individual community. So I think And Cecil just talked about this, too. I think definitely, systemic change is what needs to be happening in the long run. But I think for young people. It's not working, they're not being hurt. And so I think if they can make media change, then that's just a really positive thing. So yeah.

597
01:50:13.960 --> 01:50:21.809
thank you very much, Deborah. But would you like to take a a stab at some of those questions?

598
01:50:21.850 --> 01:50:30.959
Debadatta Chakraborty: I think I had one. you know one question addressed to me specifically. So I'm going to begin with that. so yes, I completely am. I? Am I audible?

599
01:50:31.240 --> 01:50:54.659
Debadatta Chakraborty: Yes, you perfectly okay. Great. so So in terms of the question about how find critiques of Hindu right? When folks, you know some of the grievances that they are making are perfectly reasonable, and I completely agree with you on. And that is a meteorological and an ethical challenge that I've been thinking through, and that I'm working through at this point.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: and you know what I've noticed in that context is not only is it reasonable when, say, young folks in the Us. Are kind of talking about how we do them. Is it presented in in an Oriental way, but also when I'm talking to a youth in India who are connected to these same organizations.

601
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and some of them are talking about their experiences of you know they they are

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Debadatta Chakraborty: sometimes very oppressed for folks from very oppressed costs, coming from the remotest areas of India, sometimes from indigenous communities, and when they are telling me their stories about why they are attracted to this ideology why they are doing this kind of work that they are doing.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: You know my my reflection sitting there is open.

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Debadatta Chakraborty: Who the hell am I to judge them in that context? Because because it is, it is their stories, their history, that are making them on that are, you know, kind of leading them to make certain choices. So I think my

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Debadatta Chakraborty: sort of mythological and ethical response in that context is to humanize my participants to the in the best way that I can to tell their stories in their voice, whether I agree with them or not, and, as is probably clear from my presentation. I don't. But

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Debadatta Chakraborty: I think I'm trying to tell what they are experiencing, feeling. And then, you know my role, my positionality. It will be there in the paper. I cannot do away with it. But I you know I'm trying to kind of express their ideas and voices to the best of my abilities in that. In that context. Right?

607
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Thank you very much. The blatter. And lastly, Cavika.

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Hi, everyone, so can everyone hear me. That's all right. You

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erez agmoni. So the first question on what's our role in academics in the process of empowering as well as working with young people? Of course, in first place is co-producting 150

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Co-producing With young people as well, because I also teach sociology of education in the national university in Malaysia. So I think most of the students very appreciate they. They appreciate more if we listen to them. So the time to listen to them.

611
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It's actually very important. And so I think, as academics, we have to take time to listen to them more in that sense, because even if they are in activities, sometimes they feel that the academic requirements well, take too much of their energy. Well, well, they want it to focus as well on activism work and politics, perhaps, but of course, because of the The academics requirements takes too much of their time, sometimes listening to their aspiration or their hopes

612
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would be good as well. But little things can go a long way, I guess. So thank you for the question. I think it's very engaging

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erez agmoni. So we listen to and then on silence. I have a bit to talk about that as well, because in Malaysian culture, traditionally, silence can mean, agree to agree. So if someone is silence, it mean, everyone is agreeing to one person, for example, right? But 250

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based on our experience working with young people. Silence can be a time for reflection as well, because young people also. Well, it's a learning process for everyone. So silence can be a process for them to to learn and and digest things, and also.

615
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you know, taking things and how they can relate to it. So silence can can be all of those things as well. And so just just like what I, Cecilia mentioned. Silence can be really loud one

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like like this room when you are very silenced. I was like, you know, it's really loud. So yeah, even in my Phd, when I was interviewing a few of youth activists in Malaysia, to look at the influence of culture, historical and also a policy impact on their work. There are also elements of silence that

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in terms of where they they choose which Topics! Or which? Strategies that they are going to use, because, of course, they have to mediate carefully their their their activities, or the tools or the strategies that are working on because of safety

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for their own safety, and, of course, the continuity of their own organisations and the risks that come with it. So silence can mean all of those. But, like we mentioned, I guess I agree with you. Silence means lots of things, but so it's good to look into the local context of what it means and the small group context of what silence can mean

619
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as well. so your question just now on what I might have done for the others who don't agree with the activities or with the I guess that we throw into so interestingly. They are also Groups are also a few participants across the workshop, for example, a 12 year old. participant when we interview her before. And she said, Well, I don't expect anything. I just want to have fun. So it's okay. And then when, when, after the

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what shall we also interviewed her, what have you learned? And then she she mentioned, when I feel happy. All the activities are good. But there are also some activities. I didn't do. So. We we are glad that she can't agency. Yeah, that she can see that because we wanted to create that space as well for for her if she don't want to do anything. But it's okay. It's fine. You can be with your friends.

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if you feel safe. So that that kind of agency that we want to push into and your site is amazing, because I think we're going to run out of time. Okay, okay, then. So I will answer it to everyone. Thank you.

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I know it's the last session, but I also know that Cecile has an aeroplane to catch, so please, will you join me in thanking the speakers, the discussant robots at.