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again. So

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Ok, good morning, everyone. My name is Hirosito. I'm an organized of this session, and let us start by reading this acknowledgment of country.

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So, on behalf of every one. Gazet, I pay respect to the spirit of a country here in Nan where we are meeting, I acknowledged the past and the present combination

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ruin. Jerry Woi rang as a sovereign people. Here the cultural and knowledge holders who maintain and promote the aboriginal law, customs, custodianship, responsibilities for country

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and the people. The country continues to sustain generation after generation into the future. For all of us

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I recognize the important contribution that first nation thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all first nations delegates in the room today

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for their contributions to knowledge in the display.

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and I must say I really appreciate this set up by, you know.

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Australian sociologists, this is a very important acknowledgment, and Ilam.

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you know awesome prayer. And

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erez agmoni, I hope. you know our ancestors of First Nation people will help us, you know. Give us the wisdom to think through and beyond capitalism, you know, after the great reset. So on that note let me invite our first speaker I will name, so we will go in the order listed in the program, and we have 4 papers and one

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each presenter has about 15 min. But we have 4 papers that if you must, you can go up to 20 min. So I I'll say 5 more minutes after 15 min. Okay, so thank you for coming today. So

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 Hi, okay, so good morning, everyone. First, I'd like to thank our heroes for putting together this panel, and a very interesting topic of the great reset which I think will generate a lot of interesting sort of insights the paper and presenting today revolves around one central idea. and that is that sustainability efforts, such as those proposed by the great reset program

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will likely not be able to constrain capitalism, and that the more likely scenario is instead an acceleration of capital, sociological theories of capitalism.

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 I argue, have been unable to effectively diagnose the acceleration of capitalism because they have focused largely on issues of human agency.

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regulation and control.

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And in my view, this doesn't sufficiently appreciate the context of crisis and technological change in current times. So the in the paper. I propose an alternative perspective by introducing the theory of accelerationism. focusing on the work of the British theorist, Nick Land

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Land's perspective of capitalism, highlights, the notions of non-human agency, artificial intelligence, and capital autonomization.

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So

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all right. So first, a brief outline of the great reset. The great reset is a broad socio-political agenda advanced by the World Economic Forum.

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The context, of course, was the COVID-19 pandemic where there was a major disruption of economic and institutional processes on a planetary scale. The proponents of the great reset at the World Economic Forum argued in 2,020 that the COVID-19 pandemic presented an opportunity to reset the basic parameters of the global capitalist system

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in effect, to steer market processes towards fairer outcomes.

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the great reset program includes a a handful of very broad recommendations, but I think they can roughly be summarized into 2 very broad themes, and those 2 themes are number one. investing in shared goals.

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which means equality and sustainability and number 2, technological innovation in particular, the use of artificial intelligence. The implication here

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is that capitalism can somehow be steered towards more equitable and sustainable outcomes with the help of new technologies.

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Now,

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so there are many sociological theories of the economy. but theories that deal with capitalism as a macro phenomenon are surprisingly narrow.

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with basic tenets revolving around varieties of Marxist and world systems analyses

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what is common in these theoretical approaches is the focus on the systemic nature of capitalism, that capitalism must be analyzed as a global

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cross-national phenomenon, that the main mechanism involved is capital accumulation.

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and that capitalism contains inherent contradictions.

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Based on these characteristics, the main sociological perspectives argue that the contradictions of catalism lead to Macro outcomes, like, for example, the concentration of power in core countries, for example, in the work of Giovanni Rigi, the consolidation of the neoliberal regime described by David Harvey.

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and even in the popular literature on global inequality. For example, in the work of Thomas Peggetti.

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so these critiques of capitalism informed the view that capital has deleterious effects on society and the environment, and that a reorientation of capital towards sustainability, such as those described in the great reset

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can actually reverse these effects. However, the main problem

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I see here is not

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that capitalism cannot account for sustainability.

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I see 2 main conceptual issues right here with kind of mainstream sociological theories of capitalism. The first problem is how to account for recent and rapid advances in technology, in capitalism.

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by which I mean primarily computer-driven automation communications, artificial intelligence, and even cryptocurrencies and blockchain technologies.

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technological advances accelerate creative destruction processes. And this disrupts both capitalists and workers that rely on taken for granted routines in work and in the provision of income.

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Nevertheless, this is not a simple process of exploitation and capital accumulation, as most mainstream sociological sociological theories argue

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Incorporating new technologies and business.

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on the other hand, also creates value and boosts capital.

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These effects can be said to be accelerated because new technologies are distributed across multiple actors, both large and small.

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across the production regime, making access to capital much easier among a larger global group of actors.

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A second problem I see for sociological perspectives is that these sociological perspectives have not fully appreciated the problem of control in capitalism

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because of the way acceleration

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disrupts control over economic processes.

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it is more difficult to conceptualize in capitalism which agent is acting when

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it also problematizes the notion that labor or human agency is the primary value-creating agent in capitalism.

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So this highlights the major problem with agendas, like the great reset or sustainability in that efforts to control capital are often inadequate.

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As many ineffective attempts at government regulation to constrain capital have shown.

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To account for these disruptive developments in technological change and notions of control.

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I argue that

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new perspectives are needed to inform sociological theorizing on contemporary capitalism. And one such perspective is the theory of accelerationism by the British theorist, Nick Land. I'll say more about this later. But land's core insight is that capitalism is synonymous with accelerationism.

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Land's work revolves around different theoretical traditions. But I focus on 2 strands of thought that, I think are prominent in his discussion, which are Marxism and Austrian school. economics.

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 all right. Okay, So I think before I move ahead, I thought, I maybe like to say a couple of maybe a brief remark about what the theory of acceleration is is not, I think this is sometimes a bit confused in the popular media.

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accelerationism is not a social movement to accelerate the contradictions of capitalism.

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in order to hasten its collapse. sometimes also known as the pivot and cloud strategy. Acceleration is is also not a strategy to provoke social conflict, to accelerate social change.

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So with those points in mind, what is the theory of accelerationism?

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 like Marx Nick, Land focuses on the internal workings of capital. So, for example, very crucial practical questions, such as, How does capital actually work?

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What are the mechanisms and logics that it relies on

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according to land. The essential logic of capitalism is that it is a positive feedback mechanism. He draws parallels between capitalism and cybernetics, in which systems are stabilized or destabilized by the continuous feedback of inputs.

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So in economic systems, like capitalism, we can think of how capitalism works through the continuous feedback of resources, technology, labor, power, capital, etc.

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LAN emphasizes this point as central to capital, because his main argument is that capitalism has evolved and will continuously evolve to become a self-propelling and self-reinforcing system that is increasingly independent of any efforts to control its development.

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A second core point that land argues is that this positive feedback process has a directionality.

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Capital, in fact, has a machinic tendency in which it seeks to replace human labor with machines, automation and artificial intelligence. This insight actually draws very heavily from marks on machines and automation.

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In this observation there are parallels with sociological research into the financialization of the economy.

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including a more recent independent line of research on processes of capital autonomization

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which refers to the fact that capital is increasingly becoming independent of human input or human control.

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A third core point is the deterratorializing tendency of capsule.

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While this point is not new, it does highlight that accelerationism is a theory of time and not space.

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While sociologists and geographers, for example, have researched the spatial effects of capitalism, focusing on how space has been reconstituted by cross-national capital movements. These spatial aspects! are, in fact, secondary. According to the theory of accelerationism, capitalism is

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a process where temporal coordination is the primary logical process at work. and, furthermore, as empirical developments in neoliberalism have shown, acceleration emphasizes the tendency for capital to escape control to escape space, and therefore most forms of territorial or State control.

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A second major influence on Land's theory of accelerationism is the Austrian school. Of economics which Nick Land combines with various Marxian insights. 2 points, I think, are salient.

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The first of these influences from the Austrian school is that accelerationism sees capitalism as an emergent phenomenon where it's spontaneous to order.

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In other words, the market

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is derived from the actions of multiple distributed actors in a discovery process.

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Hayek once famously described this process as of human action, but not human design.

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The central point that neglect is making here is that while capitalism is a self-propelling, positive feedback process, it is a process that is not, and probably cannot be, designed from the top down.

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as its fundamental logic works in a distributed fashion.

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The second influence from the Austrian school is again about time.

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Austrian schooling. Economists have focused significantly on the issue of time in the economy. So, for example, the work the early work of manga and mesis on time, risk, and uncertainty.

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since the tendency is for capsule to de-territorialize and escape spatial confines. The central focus of capitalism is on time secure land often references. Bern Barbic, on how value is generated through roundabout or circuitious production.

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Other elements of time that are central to accelerationism that land draws on include the notion of time, preference, and the use of technology in coordinating time-based actions.

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Now, unlike both Marxism and the Austrian school. However, Land's view of capitalism has several unique insights.

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and this is where I think the theory of accelerationism can point to new areas of theory and empirical research for sociologists.

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So what are these new insights that I think the theory of accelerationism can can help sociologists with

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first land essentially views capital as a non-human agent.

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So, in other words, there are actions and processes that are set into motion, and capitalism that are machinic and technological, and not of human design.

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Second, for land, capital and technology are increasingly intertwined and are becoming indistinguishable.

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One way to see this is, for example, to look at how value produce the value that's produced today in modern economies is increasingly reliant on technological innovation.

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Without the incorporation of technology it would be difficult today for capital to generate value.

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Therefore, an interesting point that man makes is that capitalism as a system, is actually a kind of artificial intelligence.

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 lastly, as a result of all these characteristics capital as a non-human agent, the increasing intertwining of the economy and technology.

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the theory of acceleration is in posits that capitalism is a system that largely escapes social control and attempts to control and regulate

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capitalism will unlikely be effective.

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So I do have a theory here which I also presented. The paper that compares these concepts in in sort of a more detailed fashion.

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all right.

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all right. So to return to the sort of theme about sustainability, the great reset and capitalism.

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If we do adopt the view of accelerationism and capitalism, I think

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we must come to the conclusion that, focusing on the issue of sustainability. It is unlikely that sustainability efforts will be able to curb capitalism as many of the great research proponents hope.

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applying lands, accelerationism, capitalism is a self-propelling and technologically-driven process

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will likely escape most attempts at regulating or constraining its function.

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The problem, according to the theory of accelerationism, is our perspectives on control.

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particularly that human and organizational agency will have the information or the competence required to regulate a systemic phenomenon like capital.

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All right.

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all right.

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So let me just conclude by drawing out a couple of I think theoretical implications that I think can help sociologists who are interested in the problems of technology, capitalism, sustainability.

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What can the theory of accelerationism help point us towards when we are doing our research?

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The first is obviously to

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point of perspectives towards non-human agency.

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particularly of technological objects and processes, such as artificial intelligence and algorithms, and perhaps even capital itself.

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The second which follows from this is to theorize and investigate human interaction with these non-human Asians. how technology guides and even shapes human social action.

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There is, of course, some precedence for this in sociology, in the form of actor network theory, object oriented ontology.

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A third, theoretical application is to chart the unintended consequences of the spread and embeddedness of capital

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rather than merely assume a sort of tedological theory of social action, as some variants of Marxism do.

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fourth

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lance, accelerationism points specifically to looking at processes of capital autonomization.

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These are the aspects, again, of the modern economy that are becoming increasingly independent and autonomous of human social control.

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and lastly, also some implication for theories in the political economy. given that accelerationism focuses on how capital escapes, attempts at regulation or control

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sociological theory, I think, also needs to be open to how choices in the economy are perhaps sometimes more consequential than choices in the political domain.

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In this sense capital has largely overtaken conventional political systems, such as democratic systems, liberal systems. And this, currently, I think, lacks adequate theorizing on the part of sociologists.

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All right. So with that, it comes to the conclusion of my presentation. Now this paper is very much still a a work in progress. So I think your comments and your suggestions.

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we'll do a lot to shift the orientation of this paper as it comes out. All right. Thank you very much.

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Hey? I think you're going. So our next speaker is as Wellana.

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It's been zoom

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first of all. Thank you, Hiroseto, for the organizing of such interesting session and privilege to be here.

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and I just

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my presentation the formation of a bipolar volt

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with a new non-capitalist collision. It is a question I am not sure that I know the answer. By the way. Half half an hour before this session I had a small talk with one young colleague, who

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he is Russian-speaking colleague, but he left to Russia for many years, and he told me that he knows truth.

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I am not sure that I know truth.

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I'd like to share with you just one of interpretation, one on scientific interpretation, but I will show you some facts which support me in such kind of interpretation.

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and it is my motivation, because we know that

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in many cases projects has goals which are not declared.

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and to

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and therefore, in order to access their greatest research project on their

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World Economic Forum launch 3 years back. It is useful to analyze the experience of previous similar projects project.

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And also, I think that civilization of this project

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is

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with the changes in the world, and maybe it will be not so easy to realize this project how

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it it is in plants.

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And so the main purpose of my paper is to show and interpret some of these latest trends

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to the

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my, my presentation general sociological analysis of a big project of World Economic Forum, the great reset reset project problem of implementation of it in the changing world.

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Because nobody nobody knows. It will be unipoolable to multi-polarable to bipolar world, and I will show you some sense of incident in Satanization, of bipolarity and conclusions in the end.

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So

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we can identify the greater set project as one of the big projects of the World Economic Forum.

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And the main goal of it is to restore the global

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economy.

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And

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well, we can tell something about this project.

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so I don't. I will not tell

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too much about it. But the main idea is that this project continues the logic of previous project, and is a

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at improving the position of global capitalism which is losing its word leadership now and take a look at the digital revolution project as an example of such a big project.

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It was announced in 2,009.

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There is a reliable

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to to manage with them

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after much of global financial crisis.

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and he also was presented as a basis for subsequent sustainable development in the world economy.

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But I don't. I have no time to tell about to make big analysis. But I just say that for the consideration of this project showed, however, that it contributed primarily to the creation of New Market for international financial place in the telecommunications sector compensating

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for the previous drop in profits in this area. They are out of statistics about it, statistic data, and also the the project, in fact, has a deep and global social inequality because of the digital divide. As a new dimension of this inequality.

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and from sociological point of view it was a so-called modernization project, continuing the logic of previous concept

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which

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they are presented in different theories, like theory of globalisations and of history for legislation. So one. And so the concept of digital revolution went back to the and to modernization theory. And actually, they produced

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it's key premises.

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And we know that this Syria was established in the United States in the 1950 S. And it is well-known modernization. Syria has continued and thrown into the dominant.

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This course of social science to describe modern, so so so social, economic development.

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And this discourse precision process as a certain conceptual toolkit

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in social science, expert knowledge, politics and mass media everywhere.

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so digital revolution project as an as A and modernization project.

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I had had primarily an economic orientation, and as as other projects. It was subordinated to the practical task of extracting maximum profit from economic periphery.

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a modernization theory of forms, a scientific and also ideological basis for those economic changes and the social transformation caused by them, I mean by the projects

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and that are taking place in the developed and developed in countries.

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We know that each project has a plan, the project, the the so the task of project, is to create the reality which did not exist before, and of course each project has a goal and actors interested in it.

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and the big project of the World Economic Forum.

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the creation of new fields of activity which gradually become independent.

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but in fact, they

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very good to attract new resources. It is a main goal, and also the one of the key features of such project is that in reality we have 2 kind of projects.

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one for developing countries and one for developed countries.

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And to this explanation how does it work? As an example of a digital revolution project

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that

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you can read the slides that it was is it infrastructure created in developed countries. including digital platforms and hardware and software system.

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And the idea was to spread all this.

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I think, beyond the developed countries. But at the same time this innovation have become the subject of global, financial and industrial properties, so the right to own them

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has been institutionalized in in a system of international standardization. So control of the system of standardization of such technology actually allows developed countries.

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including largest

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and transnational companies, to become monopolist in the field of ownership of the right to most important digital technologies. It

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so look at the greater set projects.

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I think there are problems of implementation. Such kind of project in the modern world.

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 because.

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 world where

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what we had before is being destroyed.

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So it is. There is a down downward trend of globalization with the dominance of one player, and the world is facing a choice of new development model.

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like non-polarity uniform or multiple.

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of what all these models are discussed. The first model is so-called non-polar. Walter.

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because a lot of science of sovereignty that more and more countries

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that to be sovereign in this world it is an example that.

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for example, physical borders. Physical fences between countries are increasing now.

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So after the era of the

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 fall of Thebellion War, the number of Francis is.

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It is steadily growing. Also a lot of invisible war, invisible walls, like

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visible, not so easy to receive business in some countries. So the main idea of this, what this is not only to stop countries from military attacks, but to

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to prevent some

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undesirable flows of migrants, for example, of knowledge or values, and so on.

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and also the other sign of civilization is that it is a lot of now the new trend of reassuring. After the trend of

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offshoring. Since 1,910, you have the trend of reassuring a walk and risk.

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Try to

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come back to have back the domestic production and list of such programs in the United States, and we came of France as a countries and also in Russia especially And the sanctions of all the but Programs of localization of products, production of

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critical goods and technical standards of utilization are very important.

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but the model of non-polar world is not fileable because it is extremely dangerous, because it could be a fight.

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 between all these countries, and

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also such

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system provokes so-called interregnum situation, which is well known for sociologists. When you have no new paradigms. Hub

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countries can coexist and necessary. The new rules of game have to be

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constructed.

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and if you look at the unipolarity, so we can reconcile that.

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The unit penalty of the world means the hegemony of one global player. It's understandable.

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And

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there a lot of supporters of such idea

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and a lot of theories about it. But

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it is interesting that Fukuyama, one of the author of the

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idea of the end of the history. Last year in his interview he he was forced to admit that to the end of the history.

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and so history itself

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has pronounced a negative verdict on unipolarity. So realistic expert do not. consider the new unipolarity with China or other countries as a leader, as a realistic concept.

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Multiple additives

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has some statistical, so statistical substantiation, because we can see that in the future the leaders in terms of Gdp will be very

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different in terms of civilizational and cultural term. It is a focus of Blamberg that next

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1515 years the big centers of the world, they would be like United States, China, Brazil, Mexico, Russia. So they are very different in

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from each other, so maybe multiple of world will

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will take place. But

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there are a lot of supporters of such ideas among politics also, you know, not only in the West, because, for example, of scholars, the Prime Minister of of German, he also supported the idea of multiple a world, but as an open opponents of multiplarity is theying to fight like a house.

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Cows and kisses are well, yeah, but the favorite sinker is one of them, and that

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I think that a multi-polar world could be only a transitional face from unipolable to their bipolar.

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And I understand B polarity, not just a fight between giants like it was in the Soviet period, the Soviet Union against the United States, to China, against

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the United States. It's not my understanding. My understanding is that popularity is kind of.

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It's an organical feature of the world where, like men and women, black and white in and young, 2 opposite forces has to be presented, and they have to, they must complement each other. So bipolarity provides a dynamically tense balance

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in terms of peaceful coexistence, and prevents conflict, especially if it is institutionalized through the creation of equally powerful

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half a symmetric coalition.

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and we can see that now there are signs that it is a process now.

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in our century the institution of bipolarity is expressed

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like to share with you the crystallization of 2 planetary coalition. We can see them western and non-western and the core of the Western coalition comprised NATO

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and the European Union, and with the composition of their members, countries intercepting, and the of the non-western coalition as the structures of Shanghai cooperation, organization, bricks, and commonwealth of independent states.

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and the composition of which is also increasingly overlapping. And now there's a table of countries. We look at the perspective 20 years

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time. There are so-called Western coalition. And it's not only exist to organization because the institutionalization means that there are a lot of other different kind of agreement between them. For example, now we have a Rumstein coalition who supports Ukraine in this

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in this situation, so

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we can see that these countries are working together more and more, and we can see that the number of in this coalition is increasing, and there are some more application for this.

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the organization we have now, and so on non-western coalition. It's not so big as a Western coalition, and we can see it also growing up. And it is 23 applications from different countries to join brakes, for example. So it's a high preparation organization. It's just a illustration. How, for example, Shanghai, a person organization keeps growing.

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and

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some of the sociological theories have their own theories and who also have my

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on concept. It's a concept of action, one's usually metrics. And I can identify this coalition as a Western. It's a

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predominant. Why metrics, institution and non-western collision like countries, it is predominant.

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excellent

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institutions.

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and

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in

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my book, in 2,004 I predicted the process. It will be

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the process of inertilization of this non-vesting poll will take place.

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And

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also you can see that these collisions are quite different in terms of of values. There are 2 examples of the same.

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Yeah, there were 2.

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Now to conventions about what does it mean? Human rights and human rights in Vienna we are identify as

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universal.

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 They have universal nature, and in declaration, for as Asian States, they will identify

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as that is is necessary to think about national and the original context of them is an example how these various work in Qatar, a World Cup, when the so-called universal values of LGBT. Community was introduced. But they were their own support of the local authority.

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And my conclusion.

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yeah.

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so we can see that countries of Western coalition, despite a difficult history of relations between them, they are much more homogeneous in cultural and well- returns

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and Hercules back close economic ties over the centuries, but therefore they are more aware on their unity and dependence of it on each other the ex-coalition or non-western coalition countries. They are much more diverse, culturally, racially and economically. Nevertheless, according to the theory of and and ecological institutions dominate

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what kind of institutions in the economic sphere there are institutions of so called redistributive economy, where the centre regulates movement of goods and services, as well as formal and informal rights of their production in political sphere the institutions of units, recent trials, political order, and ideological spheres are institutions so called humanitarian ideology.

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The priority of V over I. So the set of institutions is such institutions is definitely

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non-capitalistic. So we define the ex-coalition, a non- Western coalition as non-capitalistic galition. and I hope that I hope for the dialogue between these 2 coalition. I hope they will complement each other within the framework of the

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the unity of opposites and contribution to maintaining collective.

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You.

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Thank you for your attention.

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Okay, thank you. Sabilana. So our next speaker is Carlos.

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Hi, everyone. first, just a comment of my presentation. I had

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prepared it from here. That was what it was going to be. But

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yesterday I realized that there might be too much material in there and

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everything. Well.

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sorry. Before I actually get into the presentation, I would like to thank the previous owners of this land.

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And yeah.

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even though, of course, the the rights haven't been fully rectified. But

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this is a a gesture of solidarity

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with their history.

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 so

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I'm just going to start and

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this is an extension of conceptual.

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a distinction that introduced in a journal paper that it's been. It's an it's an under review right now, but I think it's going to be published this year.

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and it's a distinction distinction between incentives and extentives. But I think it's a little bit too finicky. So I'm just going to go and try to clarify the conceptual

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ideas behind it and the conceptual connections.

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okay, so the context of this talk is, of course, the great reset. If you go and look at the world's economic, the World Economic Forums report from 2,020. It's they.

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I consolidated a set of metrics, and like

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things, ethical disclosures that all companies should follow, and it has, like 21 Different items. And so the main critique for what I

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could gather from business journals is that it's just too scattered! This idea of stakeholder capitalism is way too scattered, and especially compared to what existed before, which was the whole approach of maximizing shareholder value or and Msb.

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And which it was just so single mind, single minded, minded about Just generating profits every quarter. however, you can, if you need to. reduce the pension benefits of your workers to it. it doesn't matter. The quality doesn't matter if you're producing much. if you're innovating, it's just about showing that profit, right?

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So I'm interested in thinking about. Well, I come more from an imminent critic critical perspective.

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Maybe I'll get into that. So more a Gber mentality perspective.

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it starts from the present, and instead of imagining that we can propose an ideal future. All we can do is really, always reflect on what's wrong right now, and try to improve it.

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You could say little by little, like gradually. But actually, I'm working on a book where I'm trying to make the argument that it's actually a very radical approach.

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And because it's not exactly gradual, because we're not moving towards anything. Right?

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We're just all the time working and rethinking, problematizing the things that already exist at the moment.

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So just maybe because we have more time than I thought, a little bit the approach of governmentality, or how I understand it.

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stay between the extreme of thinking.

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Erez agmoni. No system of government that is to program is going to work ever, which is like the thesis of technical impossibleism of There is this interesting journal article in the Journal of Cultural Economy, where some others, like in 2,008, made this argument where even the most the best welfare state that follows

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change cognition because it's like that commission.

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Keynesian Keynesian economics and that is very redistributive will not be able to combine

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the priorities of economic dynamism, economic growth, and at the same time, social responsibility, equality. That is just not possible. Those authors say, okay, let's just focus on political deliberation. That's what's important to make sure that all the resources are distributed fairly.

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So I think they're right always we will need politics, and that's the best way of arriving at the

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various decisions. But also we need to take into account what discourses we're using to come up with our solutions, what way of solving things? Or what's our universe of thinking of premises that we're working with when we are debating. So that's kind of like the level of the governmentality tries tries to tackle.

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So my premise is that we live in a pretty Hayekian world, you know. Hijack, the father of neoliberalism. Alvin was speaking about it a little bit, so I don't have to talk much about it.

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 but I'm actually I'm going to go back to what I wrote yesterday. So this is the basics of what I want to say.

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So I'm thinking about the idea from this very inmanent view of critique.

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of how can we think about productivity without competition.

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So

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because sorry. I hope not to make you dizzy, going back and forth.

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because so far we've had this approach that just prioritizes profit. And it's very single-minded. And the critique is oh, Companies are only seeking to extract value instead of producing value by actually innovating. And I'm trying to think here within the capitalist perspective.

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but we can that perspective. There is still a very strong critic, which is why they came up with this whole great reset

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in the world. Economic forum. So how can we invert this order of priorities and prioritize?

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We could say productivity over profit, although once, you say, say like that. I hope to show that

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the whole notion of productivity changes.

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So the question is, how can we think of productivity without competition, because that was the approach of Msv. Of maximizing shareholder value.

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Competition was the main tool. So what's the opposite of competition from a sociological perspective, we will say, Well, it's solidarity, right?

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But I'm thinking, Of competition as a governmental tool to make, because we will have to agree that

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we believe in a mostly hijacking world where businesses, ceos policymakers, everyone's thinking, just how do we make this population more productive?

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Now.

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yeah.

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So the question is, how can managers and policymakers encourage productivity by some other means than competition?

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Okay, so what is competition? There are a lot of definitions. Of course, sociologists, female favor, of course, but if we think of it.

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of it in the context of neoliberalism.

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it's just a way of when it's so used as a governmental tool. It's a way of setting a metric, a standard, or, in short, a measure of what being productive is.

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it's like using a yardstick, and then I'm going to give you an incentive to reach and go for that yardstick, and whether it's a precedent measure, like a metric of pay for performance like us as academics, we know if you follow. If you publish 2 journals, a semester or a year, then you can stay, if not, goodbye.

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and that it can be a preset measure, or it can be what I'm gonna get into that, or how the market

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inside the market, how it works, which is more said, I'm sorry I'm here.

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It can be a predefined metric, or it can be an automated process which it relates again to Allen's presentations.

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which is more how you can understood the dynamic of prizes.

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It's a hijack's view, like he contributed something to economic thinking in saying that the market manages to assign value to products and services and the activities of people without having to assume from the beginning what's valuable.

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which is actually a social process where people are going to understand, are going to decide among themselves what is actually valuable through their market practices.

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But it's still an automated there. There is still a prior understanding of

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what's the method of measuring value? So what I'm saying is that the opposite of competition.

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our of competition in the sense of a governmental tool for the encouragement of productivity would be an encouragement of productivity that does not have a pre-defined or automated method of measuring value.

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So that would be when the measure of value is tied to the very act of an acknowledgment or encouragement of value.

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So my main example comes actually from my schools. where I have 2 little kids in school. They're in one in, in kind, and one is in year 2, and they give them this little merit awards. And it's I think it's such a good example.

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It's not the best example it doesn't like Follow logically, but it's very vivid, and I remember my son was especially excited when he got this certificate award, saying, Oh, it's super special. They also get little. My, a mini merits, but this is like a big one, and it said, Oh, great work for your email, quirky emu artwork

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or another one was about

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for helping the new student to feel welcome. And my little girl. She also got one this year saying, for working so hard or figuring out a mathematical problem. It was like, I don't know 7 plus 15.

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And she.

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My point is that the moment that those rewards are not anticipated, they're not predicted, they're not standardized. And you have to think of what's the kind of valuable activity that the individual is producing right now, and the moment I acknowledge it, I'm at the same time recognizing that there is value in that activity, and I am at the same time encouraging it. So it's a type of incentive.

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but it's an incentive that is very different to the competition-based incentives which I feel like. It's all modern incentives are based on competition

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that it's a

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so what I'm talking about is about and encouraging. Actually entrepreneurship almost in that hijacking sense

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of, I'm saying, okay, let's let's believe, Hayek.

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let's go and discover the most productive people can be by following

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creative activities. The the body creation activities that they want to choose on their own. Let's not predefine. Where is value? Let's let people go and look for it.

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And I think that the best way the market actually has a lot of flaws in doing that, in allowing us to discover the the best we can do as individuals, or where we want to find that creativity and explore it.

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I'm just gonna go forward

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here.

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the market actually incentivizes. At surface value a lot of the times. It leads to saturate markets. Everyone is just cutting corners, if I'm always incentivized, is through this method of competition, where there is some kind of standardized understanding of what is productive.

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Then I'm just going to want to.

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I will want to satisfy that that preset standard, instead of looking for deeper productivity, and which is finally what Hayek was trying to get at of looking for

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this discovery process of exploration. And let's think of The Nvidia micro shapes that it's been so publicized in the news these days. The CEO made a gamble on this Nvidia in on this. I, a like technology even now. So he developed these microchips. And now even work for quantum computers. And he's like at the biggest in the in the top, 10 companies in the world. Now

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through the market. Of course, everyone is buying their the shares.

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but in a sense that's a very positive example of the kind of thing that Haji was thinking. It's because it creates positive sum competition.

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They are not actually not necessarily taking anyone out of the market, and the Nvidia Company is not trying is not getting rid of all the companies. It's just opening a new niche.

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and there can be almost like. And what dirt camp will call an organic solidarity where everyone is just working in different ways.

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and as in Bios is

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between them, whereas if you think of maybe apple apple started by opening new niches, but then they get itself to selling little versions of computers that are really worthless. They are not just focusing on surface value. They are just trying to do the minimum, to be able to sell and to satisfy that pretty understanding, pre automated process of defining what is valuable to make the profit.

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Okay, maybe I do have time to go into the the distinction.

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So my main distinction is between incentives and exercises. So incentives for me is always targeting the. I think of it as as incentives or outsentives, because it's like targeting. The inside of the individual is trying to find a competitive drive that I'm going to harness, and so that I can redirect the behavior of of someone by creating some kind of standardized metric or automated

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a system of deciding value.

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And an exocentive actually just looks at the individual from the outside. How can I support the environment, the social environment of the individual understanding that most individuals are already doing something. Have

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you want to do something creative? You want to explore valuable activities

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in their life? so I think a a good example

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for this is the case of

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there is this program in Australia called Parents. Next.

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it's a welfare payment to To support parents who are up to when their kids are 6 years old, and it was very polemic up to this year, because it was a conditional parenting payment for anything but yeah.

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parenting benefit.

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because you had to fulfill the social obligations. So you had to go to see an advisor that was just privately contracted

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from the State, so they barely know what they're doing, and they had to.

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they they will just. You will talk to the adviser, and the adviser will say, Okay, if you take your kid to a couple of classes, then I can take you off and say, Okay, you fulfill your social obligations. If you take your kid to the library, that counts as something that you're doing, because the whole idea is to get your job ready or to improve your parenting.

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 And

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so it's it was all based on incentivizing the job. Ready subject, the market marketized subject. But now this year the Labor government thankfully scrapped the conditional side of it. So now it's just a voluntary payment.

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Sorry program. So everyone gets the payment.

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And everyone who has kids up to 6 years old, and it depends on how much you are and things like that.

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And but it's not conditional. So now it's a good example. I failed. You can go if you want to. If you have need some help with your Cv. With a bit of training. If you actually want to explore something that you're passionate about. If after having kids now, you want to get into the child, care

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industry, or if you want to, maybe become a help with counseling. You can train yourself, and you can negotiate.

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You can negotiate with the advisor a plan. So you you create like the standards for yourself.

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and at the same time, thanks to that.

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like mutual agreement on what I call here, let's just go here

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to this personalized call setting that is unconditional and mutually agreed. I am defining

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in conjunction with this advisor. What is value? What has value? we are acknowledging it as we're doing it at the same time, and I and I can receive some support for it. I can receive some benefits if they can pay for my to go, and the skills training program. If I

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if that's what I want to explore.

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So these are some of the implications of this distinction of exosentives as a way of moving away from the notion of incentives.

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just a word on

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My intention so with this concept is to, for the purpose of this talk

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is to

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suggest something to all the the world. Well, I'm saying, probably this is just mostly for sociologists and critical thinkers, but eventually cool filters down to more like business managers or policymakers. so that they have an orientation of okay, what used to be the neoliberal way of doing things? Okay, that was just profit. It was based on compet competition, incentivizing through a competition like tools.

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government, and of governance.

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And now we can think of things in terms of exercise. And that's what would really make the difference. So a big one will be this implication of state-driven innovation. That is something that the economist Marianna Masukatu has been talking a lot about. So she's been criticizing a lot of that extraction of value, and she's saying we should have more long term vision. The State should support projects that are

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that bring together a lot of actors in civil society and in the market, and she gives the example of the space program in America how it was risky. But they brought a lot of people together.

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and thinking so. It's a this logic of

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incentivizing, of incentivizing. But without setting the standard, we are actually focusing on something that is already ongoing a valuable practice that we all can recognize could have some value and similar to a talk that Marianne gave this morning. It's actually we're not focusing on the actual and the things that are completely fully realized, but on the potential

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on the possibilities for certain practices, activities, not only economic cultural activities that could. They could benefit from that acknowledgment and that support from the government, or also at the level of

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I'm I'm thinking. Also, if we got here to the top, I'm thinking of also at the level of workers. It makes a big difference, because from this extentive-based view.

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a stable contract will

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be an expression of support to the already

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to the decision of this individual to dedicate themselves to this profession. And I'm saying, Okay, I'm trusting you. You go for it. I will pay you to do this job as opposed to. I pay you based on your performance. I'm going to set the metrics for you. I'm going to tell you what is productive. Instead, I'm going to let you explore that. What is value to your own activity?

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And do I have any time?

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 My conclusion is this is not ideal. There are problems also, even in an excessive-based governmentality.

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it also creates competition. But it's a a residual competition. So if because it's very entrepreneurial at the same time see? So if we all become entrepreneurs, we're still competing with each other to some extent.

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but at least, if they are not pretty fine standards.

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that's kind of the the point. At least we are not being. We're not being turned into these homogeneous kind of market subjects.

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It's a bit of the point, and also especially for managers. Managers are not just going to have to prioritize profit. They can think about. Okay, I'm going to

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explore and make a good judgment of. Oh, this is this person. I can see they have really good skills on this. Oh, this can be a good investment, because it's socially responsible. It it can be a cooperative as well. It doesn't have to be profit-driven. What I'm investing in.

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and there will be a level of arbitrariness because of that, because it comes down to the judgment of the person making the investment. They support the acknowledgment of that value.

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but it could be managed. If there are feedback loops between, say, workers and their managers, Ngos and their state

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funding that they're receiving the state agencies

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or in whatever center that we are thinking of. And finally.

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markets will continue to incentivize surface value. We cannot stop that, but we can. We could try to look for symbiums, I call it. Within markets, so little clusters, where we at least are fostering more complementarities between different types of activities not just profit-driven. In Canada there is a really nice paper about how in Canada they are trying this

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focusing on and and and fostering entrepreneurial ecosystems, and creating a good dialogue between the third sector and the just for-profit sector, and looking at it as a whole, as as the complementarities between them.

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And yeah. And that I think that's a good example, and thank you. That will be it.

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I thank you. Colors. So our next and last speaker is Christian, and he's

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presenting via zoom.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Hi, thank you. I'm trying to share my screen. I will have to tear my screen if you allow me. there, perfect! Thank you so much.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: It shouldn't be long, and there we go.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: hold on. Let me

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: this.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Okay.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: okay.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Can you all see it properly?

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Yes.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: yes, fantastic. Thank you.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Okay. I can start.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Yes.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: okay, perfect. Thank you. So much. Sorry a thank you very much. Everyone. Thank you. Kyoto for allowing me to be part of of the presentation today. I can, I can start the video. So hold on, can you see me? Yeah. And sorry I couldn't attend in person. My son had the a surgery. So yeah.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: So just before I start. Also, I'm I'm I'm fortunate to be the last one. I think that that's some I I I feel that some part of what I'm gonna say may may may sound more micro than some of the perspectives that have been presented. But I think it does speak to when Allen focus on the question of sustainability versus capitalism. I think I think the presentation will, at least hint towards some aspects related

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to that also, as the Atlanta's approach of also looking at previous similar projects. So here we're looking at

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: at at one that was not necessarily just a project per se. But, as Carol said, a very scattered project which is the the different types of stakeholder capitalism and social entrepreneurship and social innovation. that I've gained ground in in the last couple of of of decades. So so like, I said, I said. I said social entrepreneurship and social business

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: foundations for the great reset or cannery, and the coal mine, if you allow me to be the main goal here is basically to look at a social entrepreneurship and social business, which is basically an attempt to operationalize some ideas or concepts like this stakeholder capitalism. And then a basically get some takeaways from yeah, from from from from this field.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: for the great reason. And when I say Kanye in the coal mine well, you can already guess that that that it. I will raise some questions as to the the the the what pros, but also challenges and limitations and pitfalls. And this brings so the plan today. I'll do. I won't go long over the great reset. You guys presented it before. I'll just mention a a couple of of of things here. And it's funny, because, you actually already talked about evolution versus revolution Kado has talked about the radical

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: idea and and maximizing a shareholder value. I'll get there in a minute and then we'll go into some foundations of source entrepreneurship of and social innovation. And you'll see this understanding. The models will help me make a few points on some questions and challenges that arise from operationalizing this triple bottom line. And what are some implications from this? For all inclusive capitalism.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: so let me check for time. Okay, it'd be good. So for again, you know, a a stakeholder, capitalism, evolution, or revolution, this is absolutely not a new idea. it's not a new idea. As many point to that as we Atlanta pointed out in the one as I when pointed out, it's it's it's not a new idea per se, nor for the world economic forum, and nor for the world of business and development, and so on. but but it raises the the the a question a. That has been the

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: a a a a a a constant in in, in, in looking at, especially taking critical perspectives at capitalism, which is, you know, is it our exploitation and inequalities? An inherent part of capitalism? No. And we start with marks, but there are so many afterwards, you know.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: And then the the there's a point to be made And even Chomsky was was doing it again. I was listening to something, I think, last weekend, you know, That that this was exacerbated in the seventies, not only with the rise of neoliberalism. But what catalysts already presented, which is the Freeman doctrine? So, interestingly enough, Freeman from the Chicago school

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: was was pushing this normative theory of business ethics. I I I kept that there because I think it's interesting to think that this, that that there's the word ethics in the in, in, in, in that part, which is that basically the main role and the main goal and the main responsibility of a a a that an enterprise as is to maximize

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: the shareholders value.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: So this primacy of of maximizing shareholders value basically by default has put and and subordinated all other interests and stakeholders to shareholders and maximizing their value, which is a big issue. I'll get back to it later, because I I'm my full of time, but but but when Catarus was mentioning also the balancing the books, and so on, the on arbitrary measures, and so on. This is very much

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: a a a result of this, so especially in the eighties, nineties, extremely strong, it starts getting criticized by the end of the nineties more strongly, but still very present that they have many levels, even though we're challenging it now.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Early 2,000. There's the growth in the nineties and 2,000. There's the growth of corporate social responsibility and and and again trying to go beyond a little bit, thinking of the the enterprises as as as actors that also have an impact beyond just the financial bottom line and and their contribution to society. And more recently this has been shifted to the environmental, social, and corporate government. The Esg measures

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: or metrics to try to operate in the life? A. A. A. This contribution, and try to be able to measure and compare another point that that Catteros was mentioning earlier. No, for for for governance, at different level, at self and external governance. No. Now

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: when we go to social entrepreneurship and social innovation per se. Well, this was really the idea. And again, it's it's it's inspired by by by some of this. But it was really the idea of balancing different interests which we've called the triple bottom line. No. So basically, my goal will be to discuss this a little bit more and then see, what can we learn from what has been tried and balancing this now? So

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: basically, there are shared routes between the great reset and and and social entrepreneurship. Which is this idea of the triple bottom line. So some we're discussing today, Jared Emerson, and so on. We're discussing the double bottom line at first. so so the financial one, plus the social or environmental events to be the dominant model tends to be

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: the triple bottom line, which means balancing the the, the, the the of people, planet and profit, you know. And now 1 point that I'll be making, and, as you see, is that is, that balancing, operationalizing, this idea of of of balancing these and not just subordinating one to the other. comes with

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: challenges. Okay, now, in terms of a the the background for this also. when we're talking about capturing value, or your catalyst was mentioned in, and so on, pointing out that this is the same idea.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: There's been also other a feworizations of this Ted Emerson mentioned blended value the mix between the the, the, the financial, one and the social or environmental. One quarter and frame are really from the business world then proposed shared value, and 2,001 in 2,011. So between the value created and not just for the enterprise, but for the community, and even port.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: part of that is, push the social value in 2,019, especially talking about social businesses. So to to situate where this fifth, when we're talking about social entrepreneurship and social innovation. What are we specifically talking about now? What what kind of model are we talking about? No, as I've been saying it, it's it can be in a it, it it it has roots, a a, a, a that can inspire or or or give us lessons for the great reset.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: So basically, if we situated, you see the traditional businesses really, we can see a a, a focus more on economic mission making money and market and and and and economic impact. No. Now at Csr. In in this view, the way Brock puts it, the the Csr corporate social responsibility.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: the fundamental mission of the enterprise is still to make money and profit, but then it also has some social impact to it. So it's a a A beyond. But outside, it's fundamental mission. So the organization can still exist.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: even with or without, they're doing some good. Basically, no. So if they're if they if they're if they're for producing value to society. That's a bonus, but but it's not necessary for their their core mission.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Now, on the other side, we have the social entrepreneurship, social and and innovation framework and and and and the spectrum which I'll show you 2 examples of this, which is this one where the fundamental missing of these enterprises or organizations

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: is actually their social missing is to fulfill a social mission, be it social or environmental, creating social or environmental value. So the first, the the the first and core mission of the organization is the social impact, and then, some some some do it through

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: through more business means like businesses, which is what we'll call social businesses here and but some try to find creative ways.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: who are not businesses per se, but try to find new ways innovation, the part catalyst was mentioning, the the, the trying to innovate in this space to find new ways, to increase social impact, reach new people, increase outreach and and and and so on and and and achieve better total value with or with your resources, or less resources, and so on. Which is the enterprising number

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: profit. And there's a hybrid model that exists in between where you use a a some market mechanisms, or business or autonomous revenues mix with some more traditional nonprofit strategy. Another model from this. Helplington and Hartington then calls them leverage, nonprofit, hybrid, and social business venture. And what I like about the this grab that I've put there of nonprofit for profit. Spectrum

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: from bib is that it? It captures. It gives you a good sense of of what we're talking about here, so traditional on the left side, you see traditional for profit corporation, you know, completely on the left side. Then you see the ones doing Csr practicing Csr. Where their fundamental goal is still

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: to fulfill a a it's still there, their economic mission and and their financial mission, and to make profits. And so on, while the 3 others the social business. And so a social enterprise with earning income and without earning income, which is the hybrid and social business model.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: are in between the traditional nonprofit and businesses. No. So basically, what all this stuff in between. And then you see that we go from the ones that leverage innovation to increase impact. So leverage, nonprofit ventures to the hybrid models in the middle social enterprise with earn income

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: and social business ventures which are basically businesses full sledge businesses, but that have as their fundamental mission and core mission

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: to produce and create social and environmental value. And this is where we're gonna see in the the the last few slides on the point that there's a tension because they have to compete on the same level in the same ground as traditional for profit and and organizations practicing Csr, because they are basically working as full fledged businesses. And in most countries there's no

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: specific regulations, accounting practices and and and so on, that the format and the one that are set in place to to separate them. So basically, they're competing at the same level and the same way as traditional businesses with with an extra challenge.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: So Only a few more slides. I think I'm doing good for time. It's 10 min perfect, just a few points based on this. But I needed this part to show it. So in the next use slide. I'll just focus on this question of the financial bottom line.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Then I'll I'll discuss, I think, something that I think I'll win may be interested. When I'll I'll talk about this sustainable sustainability policy. I think it will be a a maybe less well articulated than his point. But but it will speak to the the challenge between capitalism and sustainability there. And the the last point will be on, on, on what's the ultimate goal of these and the relevance of alternative arrangements, and then I'll I'll put a few implications, and that's it. So

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: the first one. When I talk about the financial bottom line.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: as we've seen before. No And not to dizzy you around like my friend catalysts. But we have the 3 bottom lines here. No. So when when we're trying to balance all 3. The problem. One challenge in practice. what sorry one challenge in practice from this has been that

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: social enterprises like, I said, our social businesses in this case are established to when they when you take the the social business model here, Jake Coast and and price mentioned social enterprises. But what they're describing here is the entire realm. But now I'm focusing especially on the social business model. Well, social business model, they're full fled businesses. So their first goal is to fill a market need.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: you know, and then, since to advance, they're missing, and then they need to find a way to achieve sustainability through profit.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Because of this. This is what makes a lynch, and we'll say that no money, no mission to the right guys on helping and so on, and showing that the challenge here is when we want, even though we're officially there, to balance all 3 objectives and technically a social business

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: a if a social business is not achieving it. Sorry I forgot to mention this. But social enterprises and social business, basically, if they are not achieving an environmental or social mission. Well, basically, they're not a social enterprise or a social business, and and they don't have their their rationale is gone, their guys all diet is gone. So so then, they're just a normal and traditional business. And that has been a challenge already, because first, there's very few models that it's true. I wanted to say this. There's very few

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: pure social businesses per say, that have been successful, and so on. That that's already one challenge. And then there's also different views on this, some very restrictive, for example. professor, you know, this definition of cultural business is, is so restrictive that in their coastal business pediat is, it has barely grown in the last 10 years, and he started it because

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: very few organizations meet these, the stringent and strict criteria. So all this to say first, there's very few that manage to function as full fledged social businesses, not as not as hybrid one

483
01:17:21.770 --> 01:17:46.420
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: which so basically hybrid ones could also, for example, still use volunteers or still use subsidies, and so on, or use non-market mechanisms, not just market mechanisms. So social businesses, you folklet market mechanisms. And again, it's it's it becomes a real challenge. And the financial bottom line tends to to proceed the others. when you focus just on social business, a quick example of

484
01:17:46.420 --> 01:17:54.660
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: this. the, I think I met 30 min. A quick example of this is, if, for example, in microfinance and in the conversation, we can discuss more.

485
01:17:54.660 --> 01:18:19.109
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: but in in in microfinance in general, that had been an issue where the moment microfinance started, where, Even though many say they were not receiving subsidies and reality, they were, and most organizations. So what microfinance is when you land to the poor, often through group lending or non traditional collaterals, and so on. I think it's all known now in the world. But so once so basically non bang, people can access

486
01:18:19.110 --> 01:18:43.159
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: can have access to credit. Now, so many people were on bank that this became a profitable business, of course, because in the informal sector when there were last competitions. And last, it's on, and you had more loan starts and so on it. It, you the the the cost was high There was not enough competition, and so on. So it grew very

487
01:18:43.160 --> 01:19:12.340
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: quickly, but very quickly. People were able to make profitable businesses, but mostly focusing on not necessarily the poor or the not so poor, or they not poor at all, but who are just on bang for different reasons, which is a lot of people in especially the global South, as Vietnam. That would point out, you know. And so so so basically by default by this very quickly. What we see is organizations end up. The the ones who decided to take a full fledged social business model ended up having to focus

488
01:19:12.410 --> 01:19:35.990
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: on on, on breaking even, and therefore profitability, and therefore focusing on not necessarily the poorest, which is not a problem per se, because these people also need access to banking. But the problem is that often for the the, the, the extreme for, and so on, they tended to still be completely left out. This is why, for example, this is what I've seen also in my research and set ago, where the bank started

489
01:19:35.990 --> 01:20:00.469
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: trying to go downward to take the clients that were on bank because they saw profit and the microfinance institutions tried to go upward, to continue to be to be able to be profitable, and not rely on subsidy as much, all leaving the bottom at the bottom of the pyramid as as that said and and brack in in in Bangladesh. The way they tackle this is that they basically have 2 branches. So this is interesting.

490
01:20:00.470 --> 01:20:07.940
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: They have the. They have their, their traditional microfinance things which is full fledge social businesses

491
01:20:07.940 --> 01:20:35.820
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: and allows and and and more tests from the on bang to the let's say it. Not so for Molly, for and then separately, they created a completely different well, I'm not completely a separate program which is mixing social protection with microfinance for the, for the, the, the very poor. So you see, it'll be created. Basically, they have to separate the the the 2 entities and programs for it to be able to work

492
01:20:35.820 --> 01:21:10.800
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: and achieve. these goals. if you allow me, if you just give me is it? Okay? But it's okay. Perfect. Thank you. then, One other point is this, then, therefore, that that was the the question of sustainability. So it's directly linked to this the question of this obsession with with with being financially sustainable, and therefore that we're not supposed to take subsidies, and so on, and we absolutely need market models to work. Well, there's a problem there first. it was a for cook, I think, from a who had said, or or Ngo is freedom from hunger, not freedom from subsidies.

493
01:21:10.800 --> 01:21:35.209
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: And basically, even businesses use subsidies. Why would social businesses need to be even more efficient and work without subsidies. Wha wha what the others do? And businesses are not sustainable per se. I mean 90% of businesses in the Us. Closed down before 10 years, and so on, and 98 in in, in the Us. Already 98% in the Us. within 10 years, while a lot of models that are considered non-sustainable.

494
01:21:35.210 --> 01:21:53.259
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: like churches, volunteer groups, associations like the scout. And so one have been way more sustainable over time and are not using a business model. So I feel there's kind of a myth there, and especially when it comes to trying to compete at the same level. So again, like I said, when you're doing a full social business.

495
01:21:53.260 --> 01:22:17.359
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: you're competing with social, with businesses who are on the same brand. But the difference is that you on top have to deal with your social mission on top of the competitive environment. So it adds to the challenge, and often the burden and and and and to achieve this, some organization that's a separate one. But some organizations even start a a, a a

496
01:22:17.360 --> 01:22:41.809
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: literally, not not giving proper conditions to the employees, and so the and so on, under the pretense of, under the pretext of their achieving good. And this has been highly criticized. because that's the only way they can compete with the private business in this. So I'll skip this one. And I go. So basically the last point before the conclusion is that is that we also need basically, what I would say is that there, there's there's different models and and and and

497
01:22:41.810 --> 01:23:06.400
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: and sometimes social business per se can be relevant in servants, fears, and the discussions we could discuss somewhere. I've seen there's more space. But there are other areas of of of our society. that would probably benefit more from hybrid models or leverage nonprofit, and maybe these will eventually ev evolve or are transition towards more market mechanisms, and so on us.

498
01:23:06.400 --> 01:23:23.690
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Some point. Why not the question of accelerating that that I was putting? that that is possible. But this is a a a and and the example I'll give is is that, for example, in in 1 one enterprise I know very well they gave up a model that was working

499
01:23:23.690 --> 01:23:53.439
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: That was very interesting and increasing impact and scale in Bangladesh. But it was not for this. working as a social business within the timeframe of the investors in the first place. So basically, they had to give up and pivot while over time, while they had what they had managed to increase impact. So basically, my conclusions will be there. You know what are some implications for this? Well, first, we need to find a little bit like some other presenters to, they said, what are the the measures, governance and accountability mechanism

500
01:23:53.520 --> 01:24:18.870
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: that we need when we're talking about trying to balancing the the triple bottom line and operationalizing it, and we have to recognize there that it's I don't remember which one said it. I think it was better, but or or when. But even traditional businesses also create blended social or shared value. So it's not only social businesses. And again, there's a risk when we choose the solution market

501
01:24:18.870 --> 01:24:44.890
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: before we're looking at the problem. So that's what I was saying earlier. In certain spaces, education, help, and so on. Sometimes the the model may not work as social businesses per se. But then we should be agnostic or non-ide, electrical about the approach. To then learn and see what we can learn from alternative models, and the last point I'll make is in terms of the political dimensions and responsibilities when we go through this, though it again raises key questions of who

502
01:24:45.210 --> 01:25:07.359
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: has that responsibility? Who's accountable for what we're trying to achieve here? And when we're trying to put public good into private hands, it raises key questions of equity, voice, and legitimacy, especially when it comes to who, setting the agenda and based on which power dynamics. So I'll stop here, and I have but tons of questions for the other presenters to so well, thank you so much.

503
01:25:11.480 --> 01:25:16.710
Ok, thank you, Christian. So now I invite our speakers, present us to come up

504
01:25:16.920 --> 01:25:23.480
to the stage to face the audience. And let's start with your questions.

505
01:25:24.139 --> 01:25:24.799
Okay.

506
01:25:47.570 --> 01:25:48.910
Hi, Hi!

507
01:25:49.000 --> 01:26:00.410
My name is James Santos. I have a. I would have 1,000 questions for the first presenter. but I'll try to get into one.

508
01:26:00.500 --> 01:26:05.139
 I think a.

509
01:26:05.209 --> 01:26:08.330
It's very interesting. Your take on

510
01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:12.690
capitalism, as a technology capitalism, as

511
01:26:12.930 --> 01:26:17.410
our capital, as a non-human. And

512
01:26:17.440 --> 01:26:23.709
I think I would like to hear you a little bit more. on this part as

513
01:26:24.080 --> 01:26:25.330
because I

514
01:26:25.459 --> 01:26:33.239
I would agree with you. If you're talking about manufacturing, manufacturing, capitalism is always looked for to supplant humans. But

515
01:26:33.250 --> 01:26:42.879
right now, and capitalism is not only relying on human creativity.

516
01:26:42.969 --> 01:26:47.190
and it is trying to build upon.

517
01:26:47.620 --> 01:27:08.429
because when you say that capitals try to supplant humans and you make a comparison with AI. Currently, our ais are pretty much a status quo machines that are trying there are building on the inputs of human of human production.

518
01:27:08.860 --> 01:27:16.379
So I don't know when you think about AI. You think about Agi, or the prospect of it.

519
01:27:16.420 --> 01:27:31.749
but I would like to to to see you talk a little bit more like this, because I see capitalism and capital as a sort of a discourse or an ideology, not on a false consciousness

520
01:27:31.860 --> 01:27:44.329
argument, but more in a a discourse of practice that frames reality. So I would like to to hear you more about it on this point, and I'm sorry.

521
01:27:47.640 --> 01:28:06.069
all right. So thank you so much for the for the, for the comments and the question. I think the main sort of thrust of my presentation was not so much to day by a particular kind of technology but rather to shift the perspective of sociological theory to understanding the role of technology in

522
01:28:06.070 --> 01:28:19.300
the economy. And I think that's something very sorely lacking in a lot of sociological theorizing. I mean, do we actually know how these technologies work? How do humans interact with these technologies every day in the economy?

523
01:28:19.550 --> 01:28:26.779
So one example I usually like to give is the use of for example, algorithms in financial creating.

524
01:28:26.860 --> 01:28:49.280
So as some of you know, it's been estimated that up to 90% of financial creating now is now executed with algorithms. I I, personally don't think it's that high. I think. Probably you know, I mean through my own sort of field research with financial craters. the figure is probably closer to 75. But it's still in, you know, a really high high proportion of the everyday sort of capitalist

525
01:28:49.690 --> 01:29:04.940
capitalistic type of activities that go on that rely very heavily on automated processes that have actually very little human intervention in them. I mean, they have human consequences, but not necessarily a lot of human intervention

526
01:29:04.940 --> 01:29:22.939
in their operations. so it's sort of that realm of the economy of capital. But I think, you know, if sociological theory, we can come up with more of it. Insight into that sort of realm of the economy, I think. the the sort of one of us getting at. So thank you very much.

527
01:29:25.140 --> 01:29:26.390
Hi,

528
01:29:34.270 --> 01:29:35.370
so

529
01:29:40.140 --> 01:29:43.360
so. okay. right.

530
01:29:49.100 --> 01:29:49.850
you know

531
01:29:53.970 --> 01:29:54.750
exactly

532
01:29:56.110 --> 01:29:56.800
the

533
01:29:58.390 --> 01:30:03.310
that, child. But I'm curiously the

534
01:30:06.730 --> 01:30:07.400
I,

535
01:30:09.680 --> 01:30:10.380
the

536
01:30:11.590 --> 01:30:16.020
yeah one. These are the

537
01:30:17.380 --> 01:30:18.370
yeah

538
01:30:22.480 --> 01:30:26.000
monitoring source. There's one thing that's

539
01:30:28.400 --> 01:30:32.559
exception is that they just okay. then they kind of

540
01:30:33.880 --> 01:30:37.550
recently that it seems like there is a bit earlier

541
01:30:38.850 --> 01:30:42.520
globalization. We're having increasingly more radical

542
01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:46.450
the

543
01:30:55.550 --> 01:31:02.530
time under here in the longer age. we're going to read something

544
01:31:04.290 --> 01:31:06.540
concentrated. So they

545
01:31:09.410 --> 01:31:12.330
and when we that.

546
01:31:16.830 --> 01:31:17.570
Yeah.

547
01:31:19.070 --> 01:31:20.829
I think we all can answer that.

548
01:31:22.440 --> 01:31:39.620
you, you notice about a double movement of carpalania concept. It's I think it's very good explanation that. Each time people can find something to stop what? what is dangerous for them. So what I what I'm thinking only

549
01:31:39.710 --> 01:31:56.500
what I can say is that maybe for different types of society, the answer would be different. For some countries the social protection from government will be more important for some countries, maybe social.

550
01:31:56.890 --> 01:31:59.860
I spoke my really.

551
01:31:59.910 --> 01:32:08.230
not really my topic. I can tell only about some general explanation how it could be. But I

552
01:32:08.420 --> 01:32:21.149
I'm quite optimistic, because, you know all the time people say, Oh, machine machines will destroy the theaters and other things.

553
01:32:21.270 --> 01:32:28.410
I believe in the creativity of people, and the everything would be not so bad.

554
01:32:34.540 --> 01:32:37.250
I don't have a clear answer to that either.

555
01:32:37.420 --> 01:32:49.740
but I think there is a positive aspect about the whole AI revolution, and that it could free a lot of our creative thinking. Right? So I'm guessing also, new forms of

556
01:32:49.750 --> 01:32:53.830
collaborating and cooperating could also stem from that.

557
01:32:54.010 --> 01:33:05.949
Instead of just thinking that it's going to take jobs away, that it's also going to bring some new forms of more sophisticated labor and more creative labor, because it's always, I guess that's the debate that

558
01:33:06.270 --> 01:33:07.860
your setting

559
01:33:08.730 --> 01:33:16.200
the capabilities that at least this new phase of creative AI is giving us.

560
01:33:16.260 --> 01:33:25.119
They're freeing a lot of our time. Of course they can come with a lot of repercussions in terms of job losses, but it also it can

561
01:33:25.310 --> 01:33:28.660
create new careers. and

562
01:33:30.810 --> 01:33:32.390
yeah,

563
01:33:33.350 --> 01:33:46.100
and I don't know if to what extent I was so interested in that number of 90% of financial trading being organized like that. Maybe financial traders will be out of a job. But

564
01:33:46.280 --> 01:33:48.989
but everyone else, maybe not so much

565
01:33:49.210 --> 01:33:52.140
 because

566
01:33:53.200 --> 01:34:02.419
because that's a very automatic. We're thinking about the speculation. And really there is no, there is very little creative work doing done there.

567
01:34:02.570 --> 01:34:03.799
if you think about it.

568
01:34:03.990 --> 01:34:06.930
 yeah.

569
01:34:11.580 --> 01:34:25.400
Hi, thank you for all your presentations. They were all wonderful. I think my question is far more to the first. presentation, which I found very interesting the term accelerationism.

570
01:34:25.690 --> 01:34:27.800
It's perhaps a clarification.

571
01:34:28.090 --> 01:34:37.970
So in your imagination of what capitalism has become today, you presented us a technologically-driven sort of machinic imagination of capitalism. I want to understand.

572
01:34:37.980 --> 01:34:57.049
Where do you locate profit in all of this. So the drive for accumulating surplus and the profit motive which traditionally is how we would think of capitalism. Where does that go. And relatedly. given that, we are thinking about capitalism in this, in these technological terms.

573
01:34:57.170 --> 01:35:12.380
what happens to the rate of profit? Do you see corporates expanding or rates of profit. Given this kind of technological reliance? Or is there going to be a decline in a collapse? What do we do with the question of profit is,

574
01:35:20.310 --> 01:35:46.790
all right. So personally, I tend to understand the role of prof profit. in sort of very conventional sociological what sort of economic terms So I don't think it really. I much sort of insight into that. The only thing, I guess I would say, sort of in relation to this is, I. I see, accelerationism, not as sort of a predictive theory meaning. I don't see it as a form of it. It's not kind of a a futurology.

575
01:35:46.790 --> 01:35:59.250
So it would actually be very difficult to address the question of, would rates of profit be falling? Would they be expanding

576
01:35:59.380 --> 01:36:23.550
the way markets incorporate technology. Right? So it would be hard to predict what the sort of outcome of profit would be under the system. basically. All I would have to say is that if we do shift of the sort of social logical perspectives on to examine the role of technology. I think that's that's more what I was sort of concentrating on. Thank you.

577
01:36:25.200 --> 01:36:38.680
And a little bit, I think the proof of it is a part of the social environment where it has competition as a main driver, because profit means that you can survive when you

578
01:36:38.790 --> 01:36:48.480
sell your product, for example, for one or 2 months or years. So you have to have profit. But if you have a different kind of environment where the main.

579
01:36:48.490 --> 01:36:53.619
the idea is to support businesses or people or companies which contribute

580
01:36:54.250 --> 01:37:04.780
as more as possible for the general for common goods, so the other criteria could be developed, and so different kinds of institutions could be analyzed.

581
01:37:05.090 --> 01:37:11.589
If, for example, the survival of the whole society is more important.

582
01:37:12.500 --> 01:37:25.680
the separate businesses, maybe the new system will develop, and I think it is a kind of 1, one of the future. It would be a part of the future project how to organize a system

583
01:37:27.270 --> 01:37:34.219
to encourage people to contribute in the common goods, not only for their own profit.

584
01:37:37.600 --> 01:37:51.580
Thank you very much. apologies. My question is also for the first presenter mostly, and I really enjoyed your presentation to thank you. My question rolls around, thinking carefully about this idea that capital can escape space.

585
01:37:51.620 --> 01:37:57.639
 I think it's very easy to see sort of financialization and digitalization as

586
01:37:57.820 --> 01:38:09.969
des-patialization. But it's important to remember that there are physical material infrastructures that are underpinning the Internet. So it's think of thinking of server farms. Then we have the the

587
01:38:10.050 --> 01:38:22.950
places where data is is stored. and in in these sort of this environment of financialization and digitalization, they become very important strategic locations to be protected by what

588
01:38:23.180 --> 01:38:44.049
is currently may not always be, but what is currently human security labor and so I guess I'd like to know your thoughts, and how and how these sorts of physical spaces of of digitalization might fit into your into your framework. Thanks. So I I don't disagree with the view that space actually is important in this process, the process of capital.

589
01:38:44.050 --> 01:38:54.960
But, viewed from the sort of perspective of accelerationism. Space is. it's not that. It's not important. It's secondary to the process of time.

590
01:38:55.050 --> 01:39:17.130
right? and to the extent today that the spatial aspects of capital can be very easily organized. A lot of countries, for example, are very open to accepting spaces for for data farms and so forth. The major issue really is temporal coordination between all these different spaces.

591
01:39:17.130 --> 01:39:39.669
so not so much the spaces themselves. but the temporal sort of aspect of capital so I don't disagree, I think you know. the spatial sort of dimension consequences of capital are still important. And you know, sociologists, geographers that look at those phenomena have generate a lot of interesting research. So

592
01:39:43.210 --> 01:39:46.070
thank you. My question goes to giraffe.

593
01:39:46.440 --> 01:39:50.600
especially the item of a triple bottom line

594
01:39:50.630 --> 01:39:54.770
sustainability and our social business process.

595
01:39:55.150 --> 01:39:59.379
To me this is a very important issues at this point in time.

596
01:39:59.630 --> 01:40:05.600
because we need to reconstruct our understanding of sustainability

597
01:40:05.780 --> 01:40:08.890
from the perspective of the global South.

598
01:40:09.350 --> 01:40:16.169
Let's take a look at the way the capitalism has been working on the ground.

599
01:40:16.200 --> 01:40:20.090
especially in extractive industries.

600
01:40:20.320 --> 01:40:26.240
like gold, mining, coal, mining, medical industries, and etc.

601
01:40:26.590 --> 01:40:31.840
So the preach of the global nor of sustainability

602
01:40:31.980 --> 01:40:41.050
and triple bottom line to me is a kind of a campaigning to sustain their profit, making

603
01:40:41.070 --> 01:40:42.879
by extracting

604
01:40:42.920 --> 01:40:52.090
natural resources from the global south. So from a counting perspective. there is none such thing

605
01:40:52.160 --> 01:40:54.150
trying to evaluate

606
01:40:54.330 --> 01:40:57.179
and look it in a critical way.

607
01:40:57.520 --> 01:40:59.570
How deforestation!

608
01:40:59.930 --> 01:41:03.210
And then, you know,

609
01:41:03.290 --> 01:41:08.610
kind of environmental distractions that continuing to happen

610
01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:18.790
in in many countries around the globe. Look at biodiversity lost. and then trying to calculate them.

611
01:41:18.980 --> 01:41:26.130
And then, in addition to that, displacing the indigenous community is still going on in many part of the countries.

612
01:41:26.480 --> 01:41:29.250
and the nomad is trying to count it.

613
01:41:29.370 --> 01:41:30.859
and then compare

614
01:41:30.980 --> 01:41:38.060
the destructive outcome of those industries. and then are the profit making

615
01:41:38.180 --> 01:41:42.540
the as simple of the whole resources from the global South

616
01:41:42.660 --> 01:41:44.050
to the global north.

617
01:41:44.400 --> 01:41:58.319
To me this is a very good time to a great reset. In a way. by constructing the way we are imaging the relationship between the global North and global South

618
01:41:58.490 --> 01:42:04.419
in terms of sustainability and balancing the profit of this kind of industries.

619
01:42:05.150 --> 01:42:08.789
And the second one, this is very important.

620
01:42:09.220 --> 01:42:13.710
Li mentioned about the capitalist is non-human.

621
01:42:13.810 --> 01:42:18.499
and probably this is the time also to do a reflexive thinking about it.

622
01:42:18.710 --> 01:42:20.099
And then, finally.

623
01:42:20.250 --> 01:42:26.580
we have experiencing global popularity, multi-polarity.

624
01:42:27.080 --> 01:42:31.400
And then we still experience in global inequality

625
01:42:31.570 --> 01:42:32.950
for the

626
01:42:32.960 --> 01:42:36.190
and separations and colonizations

627
01:42:36.300 --> 01:42:38.050
in a very subtle way.

628
01:42:38.370 --> 01:42:43.809
So to me, this is very important in a sociological Congress

629
01:42:43.890 --> 01:42:46.480
to think about all these things.

630
01:42:46.620 --> 01:42:49.080
to create more human.

631
01:42:49.330 --> 01:42:50.160
and

632
01:42:50.420 --> 01:42:55.879
in the more equitable capitalisms to come. Thank you very much.

633
01:42:57.740 --> 01:42:59.279
Any response to you like that.

634
01:43:01.970 --> 01:43:16.460
 I guess it's time to end, I guess. So thank you very much. Present us for your very stimulating presentation.

635
01:43:16.540 --> 01:43:20.589
And yeah, thank you. Audience, for your active participation. Thank you.

636
01:43:21.750 --> 01:43:23.060
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Thank you everyone.

637
01:43:31.600 --> 01:43:33.210
Okay, thank you, Christian.

638
01:43:34.110 --> 01:43:36.619
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Thank you very much. Thank you, hero. Thank you.

639
01:43:38.860 --> 01:43:39.629
Thank you.

640
01:43:42.430 --> 01:43:46.710
And just to tell, thanks, Christian, that was such a good presentation.

641
01:43:46.720 --> 01:44:00.370
christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Thank you very much. And actually we should get in touch. I I have many, many things that would like to share, because in relation to what you were saying it, you raise so many important questions and so on. And I feel based on what you're working, that we we could have interesting conversations.

642
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I thought we were working. Yeah. And on similar things. So definitely, let's keep in touch and try to. Yeah, go a bit deeper into the debate. It sounds really good.

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christian.girard@usp.ac.fj: Thank you so much. Take care, take care

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here often