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Good morning, everyone. My name is Chio Marne Wu, and I'm A. So as a professor of sociology at Central European University. It's very honored to be here and present one of my recent work, which is about precariousness work in China, and really to the impact of the Huco. certification.

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And actually, they love updation, because for this year I realized they have the data set actually expanded to with 2 more years. That's how I update my title with

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a little bit more, which I include almost more than 10 years in terms of this expansion of the situation in contemporary China.

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To start with, that, we all know that this carelessness has been a global situation which is on the rise which refer to jobs which are vulnerable and in stable and uncertain and also in secure.

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And for China it had so has experienced a surge in terms of flexibility and job deterioration

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which is mirroring the global expansion of this precarious employment. Since its transition toward capitalist economy in the past 40 years

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there are a lot of studies has been done in terms of the context of North American and Europe in terms of

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the precarious employment. But relative. Few study actually are about China, and even if there are a lot of you know literature already. focus on precariousness, and also all the relevant terms which are sometime are interchangeable. But there are no kind of standard or consensus about what labor precares this really constitutes.

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and in terms of the contemporary Chinese labour market. It has been not only characterized by this global trend of workforce flexibility, and also this carolization, but also by its own unique post-socialist characteristics. So that's how the question raised about how to define and understand the job. Precariousness in contemporary China.

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and in terms of this post-socialist characteristics in the Chinese labor market. One feature is this hucose certification in terms of Hugo, or sometimes it's called the Chinese household registration system has been long used as, and this authoritarian state apparatus to control population and migration.

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Pierre Study already discovered in terms of Hugo's empath in determining workers. Life chances in both Socialists and the post-socialist China.

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But recently there are a lot of, you know, relaxation in terms of restriction on labor mobility on this huco. That's how a lot of people so think that who could be actually gradually losing a significance in transitional China.

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That's how the second question comes about the who goes to matters for labor outcome in contemporary China.

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Whether it's kind of losing, really losing is significant.

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And the second characteristics in this post-socialist pair is the division between stay, sector and market sector. In the Chinese market.

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In the Socialist China there is no really kind of market check. market sector, there are the stable jobs which are called the Aaron well, jobs in the state sector which provide. permanent predation.

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free health care, and also pension, which are considered as very good jobs, while other, the rest of Java are in the rural areas which are all the patents working on the farms. So that's how they are only kind of state sectors versus, you know the rural sectors.

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However, after this economic foundation, that there has been this economic, restructuring and also privatization of the stay-owned enterprises.

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And there's a shrinking size of State sector

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and also a retreat of the Socialist day in the influence of the labor marketing China

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in terms of the surging market sector. Seeing the economic translation, there are more informal jobs rising in this market sector, and those jobs tend to lack job security and stability.

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So, however, for both state and market sectors in this transitional China have seen an increasing number in terms of this. cricket. Precariousization of this work and employment. So that's how I wonder whether there's kind of different difference in terms of job precariousness which vary by the stay in market sector, in contemporary China.

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Those are all my 3 research questions.

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and in terms of conceptualization of this precariousness in the Chinese contacts. I first let go to see what are there in terms of the carelessness in globally.

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and there is a study which review 63 research articles from various countries and disciplines, because in terms of precariousness.

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even this wild study. But there is no universal

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the definition about what precariousness is. But in terms of the systematic review they actually summarize their 3 common dimensions, defying precariousness.

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The first one is about income in adequacy, and the second one is employment in sick insecurity. And the third one is lack of right, Tim protection.

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So that's how based on this kind of common dimension. To look at global precariousness. I tried to accommodate the Chinese contacts and develop this precariousness in the Chinese contact with Otto, with also 3 dimensions.

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The first one is low pay, which I use multiple low wage cutoff, based on the local salary benchmark, and also the cost of living at local levels to control this original variation.

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and the third one, which, with mirrored this employment insecurity, I look, I define the second dimension, which is no labor contract

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saints. China actually have this labor law, labor contract law since 2,008 for those jobs. With all this job, contrad, tend to be more precarious because you have no this legal protection.

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And the third dimension is no word-related benefit. And this also echoed this dimension of lack of rights and protections.

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And for this one it's also related to this new social ancients wall in China, which it in established in 2,011, which require 5 social entrance programs plus one housing found, which, supposed to be offered by the employer

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for those who have no discount. A word related benefit are considered as really precarious jobs.

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and in terms of who certification. I would like to introduce a little about the historical roots, and also the current perspective. For this Chinese huco, or the the of the House of Rescuation, has been long used, as in this kind of

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I'll authoritarian state apparatus to control population and migration

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out in the Socialist time they only have 2 categories, whether it's herb and hooco or rural hooco. So that's how they prevent people migrating from rural to urban.

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And later on, once the economic transition happened, and they actually allow people to move from

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route to urban or from small towns to to larger cities. Then I actually have this specific. this kind of division between what we have loco hooco versus now, Locohol, which

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means that you're a migrants now, the the rest of them the permanent Russian there.

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Well, later on there's more who co-host rate 4, which actually further relaxes restriction in terms of

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mobility, and for people who actually qualify a certain policy for Huco conversion, they can confer their original Foucault to the local one. So that's how. Now we have more kind of this kind of way to define the certification of poco.

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That's how based on this different status and

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different types of hook that the the workers used to have and the current ones. I specified this table to

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show how Hooco is stratify in current situation.

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and for those who were spoiled with Urban Hugo, and who never move to other places.

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and I call them as the first Calgary urban stayers

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and the second type, urban urban converters are who was born with Urban Hugo, but they moved from it. From the city they were born, and to a new city, and convert their houco to the news to the the local Hou ko. So that's how they become the Whoco converters.

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and the third one is similar to the urban urban converters. They also have

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of urban houco, but they they did not actually convert to the new local type of the urban Hugo. So that's that's how they remain migrant in the new city, and that's how I call them urban urban migrants.

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And similarly, for those who already who are born with Rura Hugo

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in terms of whether they convert their houco to the the local urban type of Hugo. I have this either rural urban converters or rural urban migrants.

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and in rural China. Similarly, for those who never move out of the place they were born, but because you know, the policy change or urbanization where there was foreign, become the territory of cities, and they become the new rural urban stairs.

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and Number 7 is through a stayer who never moved to other places and stay in their rural village. and number 8 is rubber. converter! They also have Bureau Hugo type, but they move from one village to To another village and convert to the new type of Guru. Huco! In that new village.

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and the last one is rural migrants, which they move from one village to the other without converting the loco type of hooko.

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So that's how we have this in total, 9 different categories to Look. to specify the huco status of workers in the Chinese labor market.

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and based on all this kind of

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types of houco, and also the situation in the Chinese labor market. I propose 4 different hypothesis to see the impact of Huco on The labor outcomes. The first one is to, not of all other individual characteristics in terms of whoco status has

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strong and significant impact on probability of having a low-pay job, and second, one is referring to the second admission of job precariousness, which

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not of all other individual characteristics.

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one suco status has a strong and significant impact on the probability of having a job without word related benefits. And third, one is about

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whether who Co has strong is significant on the probability of having a job without labor contract, and the last one which about what are

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there is significant difference in terms of the original difference whether Huco certification has a squitter impact in the stay sector than in the market sector. In all 3 dimensions of this precariousness.

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and to testify those hypotheses. I use data from the Chinese General social Survey, which is a Cgss. And I pull this cross sectional social survey from 2,010 to the most recent one, which is 2,021. cover 30 31 provinces, a million China

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and I restrict the sample to the working population, who are aged from 18 to 65 who are actively working in both urban and rural China. But I exclude those patterns in the agriculture sector, because technically, they're not really in the labor market. They kind of inherited their lands from their ancestors. That's how they really they don't really kind of aim, this

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labor market in this contemporary sense.

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and for the dependent variable are the 3 dimensions of job precariousness.

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They're all economists, variables. for low pay. It's what they have. Their job is considered as low wage as it goes to one. Otherwise it's 0 and I use multiple.

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I I might I might see E to to deal with this missing values, but I

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exclude for those missing for this dependent variables. That's how for this thraced set of analysis I have different side. Different, simple size

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and dependent. Variable are those a dummy variables of this Houco certification which I introduced earlier, and I use herb rural Stator as the reference categories. So the the rest of the 8 are dummy variables, including the analysis.

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I also include the set of control variables to consider about other individual characteristics which are related to precariousness

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for individuals.

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And here are my result. And this figure shows in terms of the total Chinese labor market in terms of the trend over time, from 2010 to 2021 in terms of all 3 dimensions, and the red one refers to the low pay jobs in terms of percentage.

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and the green line referring to the the low, the no related benefits, and the blue line refers to the percentage for those who have no labor markets

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and overall, especially after this new social ancients wall, which established in 2,011 that we can see our sharp

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They increase in terms of this

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job precariousness for all 3 dimensions. And also we can see? in terms of so a slide increase

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in this most recent 2,021 data. And I think that's really to this Covid 8 related impact which we can see slightly increase in terms of job deterioration.

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and the next one I showed this situation for both stay sector and market sector. Now we can see that

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overall. The State sector tend to have a little bit

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better jobs. Well, for market sector there, a larger percentage for all 3 dimensions

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off workers suffering from different on dimension of precariousness.

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but in terms of the new law that we can see this kind of a sharper Bigquis in terms of the market sector, actually having more fewer people actually having.

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no, we are related benefits and labor contracts. But still, even for a reason

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year we can still see some gas between the state sector and the market sector in terms of this labor precariousness.

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and I used logistic request for all 3 dimensions of precariousness.

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and

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in terms of Who I use the shift coefficient to to show the overall aimpad of the Houco certification.

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So that's how we can see

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for here, for the first one, the low pay, though we can see who has the strongest

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and also a significant impact compared to all other indicators.

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while for other 2 dimensions like for no word related a word-related benefit.

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we do see a significant impact. For who goes certification, but the number the size impact is relative, smaller, while in terms of education, actually jumps like the the top one indicator for precariousness, which is related to the the word related benefits.

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and similarly for labor contracts, who also has strong but relatively weaker impact, while class actually has the strongest, strongest impact among all

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the indicators.

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and we'll look at the comparison between the state and market sectors that we can see

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for both state and and market sectors. Huco has the strongest impact. determining what are people? workers have low-pay jobs. And, interestingly, that the aim pad is significantly greater in the market sector than the stay sector which is contradict with to my previous hypothesis.

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Well, for no, no, no, no work-related benefit and no labor contract. We don't see any significant significant difference between the sectors.

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while we here also indicate other indicators in terms of if they have significant state versus market variations.

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and for the conclusion that we can see in terms of drop. Job, carelessness in the Chinese market actually isn't modern, dimensional, and the result can be different very by different dimensions in terms of precariousness.

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and similar to other capitalist economy. Where, you know, when we see that non, a standard employment is significantly associated with this job of carelessness.

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trying to also have show some unique characteristics which the first one is the hook of certification.

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and the other. One is the division between the state and market sectors.

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and in terms of the hook of certification which has consistently and significant overall, impact all overall impact on all 3 aspect of this precaution.

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And it's it is the most important

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and strong its impact among all other factors in terms of workers with low pay, but much waker influences, work-related benefit and labor markets. labor contracts

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and

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who go only after the significant greater impact on low pay in the the market sector compares to the stay sector. But there are no different differences between the stay and market sector on the work related. Benefits and labor contract.

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And lastly, I found this significant aimpad and strongest Indicator, which are class and education, which are associated with work, related benefit, and labor contract. So I think those 2 actually need further research to invent more.

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All right. So, due to the time limitation, I would like to thank you all for your intention, and also welcome to any questions afterward. Thank you.

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The second paper will be presented will be dissented by Dr. Brian Casseres from the University of Puerto Rico. The title is Implications of authoritarian neoliberal labor policies in Puerto Rico

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you have to.

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Everything is wrong. Right.

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You can put on a

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can we

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not she! She can also you make a solution.

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at least

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study.

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Hello!

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She's there or not.

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Who is who is sharing the the power, point her or someone. I think it's her. But she Hello.

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okay.

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we said, it's a name. Yes, this end

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she she she's muted.

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Okay.

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yeah.

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City of me

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see.

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what's the next one?

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Okay.

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okay.

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Virgen Caceres: back in.

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Okay, go, you can start. Can we see you?

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Virgen Caceres: Can you put your

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if we can see you on the camera.

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Virgen Caceres: See? Yes.

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that they

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Virgen Caceres: bye.

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Yes. we we can hear you, but we cannot see you.

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Virgen Caceres: I?

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Virgen Caceres: Okay. Now, Whoa!

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We just saw you for a moment

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again.

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Okay, no, no, no, yes.

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Virgen Caceres: Good morning. Before starting with the presentation, I want to send the organisers

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Virgen Caceres: for research, and

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Virgen Caceres: and the topic of my presentation is.

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yeah.

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Virgen Caceres: See? Yes, okay.

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Virgen Caceres: If they are saying here in the public, if you can speak in English the most you can.

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It's a.

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Virgen Caceres: Because it's Poe out to Itarines in Puerto Rico.

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Virgen Caceres: Second, it's for how any Puerto Rico domination is. It's served by this day troll neoliberal public label policies, species in the media and economy.

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Virgen Caceres: the

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Virgen Caceres: the implementation of fully labeled policies of the neoliberal and out authoritarian, natural by, they say, at represented for accommodation of workers.

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Virgen Caceres: the nomination it's aside by, they say, through merely there are label public policies, the species prices in the area and the

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Virgen Caceres: and ideological change at an impact on the of the workers.

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Virgen Caceres: 3. It's by the at symmetry in our in this relationship support. The name is play resistance mechanis.

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Virgen Caceres: This presentation is part of a one investigation that started the psychological implication of labor policies in the Puerto Rico in Russia, and they can us

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Virgen Caceres: to the lot of time. In this article we pretty briefly please present a sample of the 3 pulling policies and their psychologic psychology or implication.

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Virgen Caceres: The the oral protection is form. We Latin route, a main system funded on power or abuse on this of our

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Virgen Caceres: reading, a quality car system directory set by the edges or abuse, but out to week

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Virgen Caceres: a. The context is global economy increase it.

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Virgen Caceres: When we' about economy global crisis.

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Virgen Caceres: we'd speed up our economy elementary and

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Virgen Caceres: in in in many orders in Puerto Rico. I you press and then

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Virgen Caceres: present, then, that

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Virgen Caceres: both had been given to your team's security over the last 3 years.

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Virgen Caceres: That has been a pro by 2

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Virgen Caceres: by the 2 main powers. The Constitution on the comma world of Puerto Rico for the

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Virgen Caceres: and today is a colonial to the United States

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Virgen Caceres: probably be borrowing the back to balance the Government for you. however, officer from different governments. Administration had done so

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Virgen Caceres: 1,001, and then fiscal prices over the 70 billions dollars are our to credit in situations.

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Virgen Caceres: Hello! A number 7,

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Virgen Caceres: and

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Virgen Caceres: protest by the doorstream of the.

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Virgen Caceres: and

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Virgen Caceres: that this, that the

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Virgen Caceres: to post take over my

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Virgen Caceres: a. These

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Virgen Caceres: they are women that they that's another power to this day for

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Virgen Caceres: and

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Virgen Caceres: former the first implementation.

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Virgen Caceres: And

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Virgen Caceres: the he put it allegedly, branch

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Virgen Caceres: a pro. It's special. Now, the A State is day of fiscal emergency by establishing a comprehensive fiscal stabilization plan, to say the credit of Puerto Rico. Now number 7.

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Virgen Caceres: Among its provision down number 7 is true to a layout plan for South. Some of Union Union unison and non unison employees in the central government by A. L.

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Virgen Caceres: The guaranteed or due process of a

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Virgen Caceres: wait, 1 84,

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Virgen Caceres: and so spending for several Ig or their own, you know, right number 4 45,

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Virgen Caceres: Governor and the other officer raised the reference.

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Virgen Caceres: or we must main sacrifice.

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Virgen Caceres: Already. By February 2,010, the Central Government College Corporation and municipalities at lay out

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Virgen Caceres: 3 1,000 people.

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Virgen Caceres: they what great confernation segment! And for in the country of this total, so

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Virgen Caceres: 14,

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Virgen Caceres: 14, war may and 19.

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Virgen Caceres: Woman. that's it.

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Virgen Caceres: Why, 72 woman

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and me

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Virgen Caceres: already by

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Virgen Caceres: 2010, the Central Government Public corporation and municipalities

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Virgen Caceres: 13 people

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Virgen Caceres: a day. What's the great concern about?

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Virgen Caceres: I'm further in the country was this total. So for team working and

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okay.

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Virgen Caceres: Mars protests, loving press conference and orders.

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Virgen Caceres: government speech.

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Virgen Caceres: Secretary of the Interior of the I'm older.

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Virgen Caceres: put from all the national stri on October 15, and it's fall out

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Virgen Caceres: out again safe layout.

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Virgen Caceres: On the other hand, it's it's speaking for us. It's more a new interest in

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Virgen Caceres: for money. because you can development for the people.

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Virgen Caceres: for my people

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Virgen Caceres: work award playing for the country

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Virgen Caceres: full name you name

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Virgen Caceres: Tony

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Virgen Caceres: e

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Virgen Caceres: 20 a

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Virgen Caceres: campaign. So this speed to change is at the

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Virgen Caceres: in this period, the bank of popular cra. The company is the future, the grand combo, the most famous popular music group in photography.

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Virgen Caceres: the company.

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Virgen Caceres: the time being reflect the council of this day and the capital for the increasing interest in the population. The jobs are available

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Virgen Caceres: now. Number 66

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Virgen Caceres: was a pro with negative effect affected the salary unemployment condition on the public center. The pension of Central Government employees and T-shirts.

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Virgen Caceres: We have our guarantee. We're spend it and

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Virgen Caceres: fairly limited

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Virgen Caceres: what the collective burden urgaining process and the right to

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Virgen Caceres: to for for a small business and businessman container.

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Virgen Caceres: at least in the speech and the campaign for mute and internal, begin

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Virgen Caceres: the timing of the newspaper.

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Virgen Caceres: Both games train in the news media sign that session or they represented.

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Virgen Caceres: They have primary case of the of those who had punishment to revenue densers

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Virgen Caceres: that the school have been able to change, and Henry identities, not only for the employment.

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Virgen Caceres: but also for some people who have pulled all the this before the termination, a. It source into search sustainable.

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Virgen Caceres: So for a small business and business continue. and this

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Virgen Caceres: the simultaneous, the brain, or was kind of trade. In the news. Media signed the session word, daily pressing day. The heemplary case

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Virgen Caceres: 20.

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Virgen Caceres: But it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's a it's a it's a

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Virgen Caceres: the reform has to turn the label relations system

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Virgen Caceres: one. I live. advance into

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Virgen Caceres: one of the more we talk for a day in the radio. This group that allows had destroyed important constitutional guarantees that sears at the basis of the Labour relations system.

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Virgen Caceres: To do this, it's administration related to the suggestions made by the Country Payments Association to the country of our economy and fiscal prices, as one is

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Virgen Caceres: in

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Virgen Caceres: also.

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Virgen Caceres: after 2,016, it was on the provision appropriate allow for the

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Virgen Caceres: economic stability of Puerto Rico

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Virgen Caceres: call it premises, for it's a in English and the 5 car over side board

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Virgen Caceres: that is created.

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Virgen Caceres: All this had been part of the plan for Puerto Rico, in which some member of the past and Quran administration at the United States Congress and about

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Virgen Caceres: finance our capital, are part in order to at one. There's economy with political, and

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Virgen Caceres: as Puerto Rico is a colony of the United States, he made the situation about the economy political future of Puerto Rico, right with the ongrid of that country, the government of

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Virgen Caceres: to

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Virgen Caceres: a main tractor for check, and I of the band through it by route now, so the public corporation call negotiate the day. It will be readily with the predator.

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Virgen Caceres: However, they use the

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Virgen Caceres: did not allow this to happen. The legend it, and he could be prone of the United States a protil out that create the fiscal over side bulwar with the proposed of paying they did to the creditor of the government of Puerto Rico.

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Virgen Caceres: Also, the 5 physical or side board is not ground or entity of the government. It has made important decision on the economic and social referral. The

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Virgen Caceres: this in this, the 3 men on the

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Virgen Caceres: also the roller of the ruler of Puerto Rico, or a delegate appointed by him may be file of the

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Virgen Caceres: one. It's official member. It does not have them all

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Virgen Caceres: them all.

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Virgen Caceres: I've been responsible for evaluating the budget of Puerto Rico also is collusion with government leader and business association.

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Virgen Caceres: It had endorsed the politics policy that had place workers according to San Diego, in condition of what the contractor is library.

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Virgen Caceres: During the month of September 20,

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Virgen Caceres: 17, 2, category 5,

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Virgen Caceres: Europe. After this event there was in humanitarian and food creases.

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Virgen Caceres: In January 20. Okay.

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Virgen Caceres: 19, the.

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Virgen Caceres: So far the worst I, quite

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Virgen Caceres: that have been in the last

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Virgen Caceres: 10 years is I don't 100 year

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Virgen Caceres: at

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Virgen Caceres: to this front and corruption. Okay, government officer and Mis management of public phone it. In past a year prior to the Covid

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Virgen Caceres: pandemic, the poverty Ray had remained at 45.

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Virgen Caceres: I am in

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Virgen Caceres: 20 19 at or more in for the country municipality, according to the data from the communities. You're right.

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Virgen Caceres: Neither the immigration, or more than half a million people that's 80 years.

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Virgen Caceres: nor the filler at transfer from the Use government.

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Virgen Caceres: What we 81 are paid by Puerto Rican sensors have been able to encounter.

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Virgen Caceres: It's it's it's it's the economic separation and persisting of forward delivers great by this.

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Virgen Caceres: a simple form, another morality to have the

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Virgen Caceres: at him, Oregon link to the citation. The many people it's it's it's it's for Carolyn, or temporarily, John. This morality is more visible in young people and other group that's very high employment, right and precaution. These are more likely to serve

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Virgen Caceres: for a private, that price and motion for their economic and label development that's done to purchase employment. There is form of this po population present the position of the meeting

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Virgen Caceres: for all that, the war, as it's

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Virgen Caceres: not, though they feel connected to the

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Virgen Caceres: yeah.

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Okay.

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Yes.

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thank you.

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Okay. The third paper will be presented. by Jason Lee. School of Terrain Languages. brand. New University of China.

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The title is Slaughter for leaving

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a study of massive.

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family-based butcher migrants, welfare conditions in Beijing.

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Yes.

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Could you please stop sharing your screen?

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 thanks. Thanks.

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This is yours. Yeah, that's mine.

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I'll be timing myself so that I don't take up too much time.

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Right? So my time starts now. Hello, everyone. I'm Linda Jong. I'm my current job right now is in 9 Nations and Industrial Development Organization. But I conducted this research when I was serving as a research assistant in R. You see. So This title is very long. It's actually a very complicated slaughter for living. massive butcher, migrant welfare conditions. But actually, when we talk about wealthy conditions of the workers, we have to talk about how they unionize

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and how they actually serve as their self-protection. But how it? Because union is actually such a dirty word in China. So I I want to have an academic living in China. So I have to use welfare conditions of the workers so that they don't check what I'm doing here now. So yeah, so actually, the however, they also there, there is a problem with the

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the gap of research of labor unions in China. as we can see from the To we review, I'll be conducting later. The empirical research and theoretical research of labor union and the conditions in China are very, very limited. several reasons. Number one. We don't really have a Western style or functional union in China, as we all know, and number 2 is that even if you do have a function of union and the Chinese Government stop you from interviewing them.

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So now I I have to talk about this in a more nuanced way, and conduct my research and the more new ones away, as we will see later. So this story is about this place. So this place as I can, I have marked it on the map as number one here, so it's called Joji, and a district in Beijing. This is in da Yang Lu, a very remote area in Beijing and satellite city. So this is gonna be a special story under spatial politics and traditional Chinese sense

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community. Now, certain backgrounds, as we understand, we, we are under a market-driven neoliberal society in China, post-socialism

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some, and then under which space and location here is obviously undergoing a rearranging of social relations, and in as Shin and Jao has put it. Eventually you have to put what political structure you have in China within the process of urban management, and then Labour Union, and how they form a de facto Labour Union. Here is because the Governments

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central planning of the space in the collective. So therefore, I need to talk about spacefest, and then, of course, we have residential differentiation, which is also a process the government has been pushing, and also it is also ongoing, as market and gentrification happens. So this sort of social stratification will happen and maintain the individual. differentiation and various strata.

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00:48:18.680 --> 00:48:42.360
And because that is something that's well, very, very natural in the market system. And also it's something that's China's government has been trying to drive because it it's good for them to have a similar living style, identities and opportunities. And as what Luigi Tomba would say, this kind of consensus is something that Chinese government is employing when they are trying to get

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00:48:42.360 --> 00:49:06.109
a local small-scale government done in the local area, so especially in Luigi Tomba's work in 2,014, called Government of the Urban. The government next door. He mentioned how Chinese government in the local area conduct spatial segregation based on their job based on their social identity and their hooco system and then create social clusters and social segregations.

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00:49:06.110 --> 00:49:31.110
employing on respective different governmentalities to control these respective people. So these are all. backgrounds. Of course I've neglected the Huco part because I know Professor Wu had done extensive work here. So I'm going to say we have great distinctions between the rural and the urban people based on Huco system. And this is the invisible great war in China. So these labor. And as I'm going to mention later.

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00:49:31.110 --> 00:49:55.809
outside, people are from Nan Chung. I'm from Denton, so most of them are my, my, my people, and then they have no right to stay in Beijing. Legal right because they are actually they don't have a Who code. So they are the unrued citizens here. They don't have educational rights. They don't have the right for Medicare. They don't. They can purchase houses, or that. So they have been segregated out by this invisible war and also been segregated by the Chinese Government

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outside of Beijing. So they will forced to live there. Actually, they based on the demolition process. Now, so these are the backgrounds here and talk about labor union research in China. Let' re review well, we have very limited research here, because well, first of all, the A/C. Ftu, the labor union in China is basically very, very inadequate in in protecting labor rights in China as other post Socialism nations are, because the fact that they are institutionally dependent on the nation

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and Chinese government they suffer from to say the best a double identity, or what we're gonna admit it. They don't really serve in the, you know, represent the workers at all. My parents are school teachers, and then their labor union was always going to send them, you know, oil and also rice in in some holidays and not exactly anything else. 150.

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And so they have to organize, strike on themselves. Yeah. So they don't really represent well goods now. So the government has significant control over these labor unions. So they they are not exactly the topic we are going to talk about today. But, however several research had well discovered that we have

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00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:27.139
bypass the labor union system to have our own sexual level negotiation in China between labor and the government, the labor and the capitalist. Now, this is something that I will be working on later, because, as we understand, Chinese labor unions are inadequate. But you need to have negotiations and labor control to some extent. So this is where this story kicks in

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00:51:27.180 --> 00:51:50.920
final background. I'm sorry, because this is a very, very complicated story about satellite cities in Beijing. So, as we've said, Joe Jaden district is a part of the satellite city. Here in southeastern Beijing Kung-jou district was built because it's considered to be a satellite city that Mao zed down believes it's very important in distinguish in it, squashing the 3 distinctions

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00:51:50.920 --> 00:52:04.050
a so-called labor and versus mental labor, the so-called workers and peasant and so-called urban and rural areas. But we will see later how this satellite city actually turned out to en foster these 3 differences.

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00:52:04.050 --> 00:52:28.209
Now, for all the backgrounds is dive into the story. Now the story is in this place. First of all this dialogue district was built in one 1,997. So this is based on this project called Thailand. The Project. So the silence the project translated roughly to English the project of the vegetable basket. So I will. I translated better to the project of Food Food Bowl.

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00:52:28.210 --> 00:52:53.209
because it's about maintaining the food supply of Beijing. So basically, it's founded. It's it's it's detailed. Location will be in Tungjo Tung. Joe was used to be the forestry and rice production base satellite city in Beijing. But right now it's the new center for Beijing municipal government, as we understand. So we is under going to certain changes here. So, after 1,997, this place

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00:52:53.210 --> 00:53:19.769
was invested and built after a series of process of demolish process as a as a accelerated, especially after the Olympic games and Beijing had undergone a a serious process of mass demolition and rebuilding. Therefore a lot of these workers I've interviewed had said that they came there after the Olympic games and the demolition process and renewal of Beijing. Now, after this, we see

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00:53:20.120 --> 00:53:38.039
the building of this particular place is the result of an urban spatial reproduction. So this is the process that has accelerated, especially after 2,012. In Beijing we see typical examples of Dahman, which is now no longer existent, because it was the clothing industry base

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00:53:38.040 --> 00:53:59.119
in Beijing. And then right now, because the former municipal! Leader of Beijing Tai Chi decided that there was the place of low-end workers, and therefore it had undergone another round of demolition. So another typical example is Sinfadi Cinema. The district in Beijing is the center, for you know, for the you know.

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00:53:59.210 --> 00:54:09.299
the kind of food from the sea. I don't know how to say that in English now. So it's actually food from the sea. But that's also the place where COVID-19 broke out in 2,021.

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So this kind of satellite city building, and also the so-called structural functional idea of this urban planning and spatial segregation is one of the reasons for this neighborhood consensus of labor under this willing negligence of authoritarian government is basically the mechanism of here. And then eventually we see it. It began to become the

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00:54:34.300 --> 00:54:56.179
center for Beijing's meat production. So we have, like about 15,000 butchers working here and then, right now it's called the the distribution center of meat, with Chinese characteristics like jungle to Asserti Sandy. Now this is also the result of an urban spatial reproduction. Now, the beginning of this story.

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It's actually pretty, as as you might imagine, because, as we understand after marketization, the local bureaucrats will have to have. They have their own kpi, they would have to have their own income or sustain income. Therefore they have been cooperating with certain big corporations big vendors big you know, you know big players in the meeting market and hits. He so happens to be natural.

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00:55:21.110 --> 00:55:42.010
and then therefore we will see how he used his power to exclude the other people in this area. But, as we can see, after 2,018, these former system of so-called delegation of, you know, actually delegating this whole market of Beijing to one specific or a few specific companies, has been

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00:55:42.010 --> 00:56:07.849
found found to be illegal, as we can say, Inkshusi and Jung. This is Yen jong-UN with Juju van Ze. Because The leaders of these markets are, you know extremely violation of party, and you know, criminal code of China, and therefore he has been contained by the Chinese Government. This agency system was how the Diane loop became so important. In the early early stage of Dianlu they used

329
00:56:07.850 --> 00:56:28.150
the existing corporations with very big, say, in the meat market and cooperate with them, and then this has implemented to get the get things going. So as as the report in Beijing Shamba, the Beijing of the commercial. Newspaper had said, this agency system, originally implemented to improve the market production and sell connection.

330
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and then it eventually became a tool to collect money and bully the market, which eventually leads to the lack of healthy competition within the market and seriously interfered the market arrangement order.

331
00:56:37.900 --> 00:57:02.770
Now, there's yeah. So right now we have a a centralized spatial you know, equipment here. That's that's a picture of me there, you know, in in February, when I was conducting this research. So the banner says, Jin-jinji Sri Lanka no champion. So the the important center for food and agriculture providing in Beijing, tinging, and Columbia area

332
00:57:02.770 --> 00:57:27.750
and Diane Loo. Now it's also another another banner here that that says it's important for the safety of agriculture. for the capital, the center of China, and that's the big food bowl policy, as we can see now. how do you delay but protect themselves? I have like 10 min. So I'm gonna dive into them now, the first of all, they go back to the protectors. As I've said just now.

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00:57:27.750 --> 00:57:50.520
they used to have this so-called delegation system. The delegation system which a big capital and the big players of the meek market are in club, in cooperation with the local bureaucrats here and then these people. they! They so happen to come from Nanjian, where they they happen to be my relative. Actually. So they they served as de facto protectors here.

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00:57:50.520 --> 00:58:15.520
So, as we understand, the Communist Party offers political protection of for its people. And that's why people go and join P Communist Party of China. A a lot of them, actually. And we also have other forms of protection. As Tohara would say, we have the son law. So this is actually, this is actually a mechanism that's extremely old in China, dating 3,000 years ago. As in the d, so in lead G, these, these are some.

335
00:58:15.520 --> 00:58:39.880
the elder, the elite of the local areas. They are old, they are educated, they probably own a lot of land. They are probably very influential, therefore, in China, in the in the long history. The central government will have to cooperate with these local elites in their functional governance. And here in this meat market it's very, very small meat market. We are seeing a very similar trend of going back to their protectors

336
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:47.330
as they get more power in their collective purchase. In the mean market, they get more in influence, and eventually

337
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they became the the sayer of who gets what? That, for instance, who gets what booth and and who gets more income through that. So this is a picture of that precise person as he was going around the market asking for his relatives. How are they doing?

338
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And then so they, these systems are formed here are very, are functioning as a pseudo kind of labor union, because it's actually

339
00:59:15.870 --> 00:59:37.709
and conducting what they, what kind of negotiation of labor welfare, for instance, we have. you know, you know, interview is telling me how they want to switch booths, and so their conflicts within the people, as what males then would say, and then how how they are expecting higher wages, and probably compensation when they cut their fingers. So this

340
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you know, protect her, and his followers will help to negotiate with the local officials with whom he had very good personal relationship.

341
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So this eventually turned the Western start of called social conflict into a Chinese style of fatherly love negotiation. And then this became very functional in solving daily problems. A lot of these. you know, relatives tell me how these systems help them nurse their kids, nurse their homes, solve their educational problems, and even medical emergencies. As we remember, they don't have medicare here. They don't

342
01:00:14.260 --> 01:00:38.250
have educational accessibility here. They don't even have the right to buy houses, so it poses as a protection method one step at a time. We we are going back to the old Chinese method, based on the rural and kinship and cultural proximity. Eventually we see a system that functions very much like labor union because it it does

343
01:00:38.270 --> 01:01:03.269
protect the welfare conditions and even negotiate with the capital and the government, and and this is as with Luigi Tomba. I I would like to communicate with Rjetoma here to to converse with his idea of spatial collectivization and willing segregation and social clustering. This is something that the Government has is actually willing to neglect or actually willing to promote in certain such such

344
01:01:03.270 --> 01:01:26.649
method. Why is that? Because, actually, the very good example here is the original runners of this market are actually in prison now, but the new runners from the new municipal government in Beijing still continue to cooperate with the pre-existing conditions and pre-existing, so-called functioning collectivized, you know, collective working force

345
01:01:26.650 --> 01:01:51.270
here. as this is a picture of taken by me these market police are also negotiating with the process the time of how they want to vet. These meet. Eventually it poses as in the social exclusion to other people, because eventually we have 97% of butchers here on and Chinese, and we also have 200,000 100,000 non Chinese in Wuhan, serving as

346
01:01:51.270 --> 01:02:08.730
purchase 2. So eventually we see Chinese labor insurgents very much connected with spatial insurgents and the fight for spatial right. It's also, possibly in conversation with what Luigi Tomb would say, a spatial collectivization and willing segregation as social clustering.

347
01:02:08.730 --> 01:02:36.480
So a summary because I kind of have like only 4 min. So this is a story about spatial politics and collectivization. It's a willing negligence of the State authoritarian state when it's conducting urban, everyday politics. So this is what Chinese people would say. Julie drew the wisdom of governing of everyday life. So this story responds to the question of How do workers protect themselves or de facto unionize

348
01:02:36.480 --> 01:03:06.100
without using the dirty word of union in China for their self protection. So this is serving as a crack in under this new form of authoritarian regime. This crack is willing or unwilling as serving as a governmentality by the Chinese government. So I will eventually code line the code in here. There's a crack in everything. That's how light gets in. And this is, it's interestingly, a very interesting sound that these people like as well. So eventually, that's all for my presentation. Thank you.

349
01:03:12.240 --> 01:03:29.469
Okay, thank you. And our fourth and last paper will be presented with represented by S. M. no, no. Our case. I'm sorry. Shamil. Right from East-west University in Bangladesh.

350
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This

351
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okay?

352
01:03:41.540 --> 01:03:42.490
So.

353
01:03:46.350 --> 01:04:00.600
Hello, everyone! I'm I'm from Bangladesh. I thought, the time will be only within 10 min. So I prepared a slide in that way, so it's only 6 slides

354
01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:25.090
but as it is 20 min, I think I will discuss more. And I mean, it will be interesting for you, because what I am trying to learn in in Bangladesh. That is how the regiment garment workers of Bangladesh mobilize themselves, and Do protest movements or upon their power and leverage in in the country.

355
01:04:25.290 --> 01:04:41.070
That is because in in Bangladesh you you will find that the garment industry is something which is contributing more, say 80% of our total export earning and 12% of Gdp. Now that is not important. Important is

356
01:04:41.170 --> 01:04:44.680
There is a situation where

357
01:04:44.790 --> 01:04:58.829
where the State itself is protecting the owner of the garment factories. And also that is because of the situation of the global. new liberal market system where

358
01:04:58.850 --> 01:05:16.570
the market is looking for the cheap workers and government also, very interested about this, because they will they need to support the corporations particularly the industry, so that they can earn a lot.

359
01:05:16.720 --> 01:05:25.150
And then the third thing is, the workers are not getting their benefits particularly. They have no union rights.

360
01:05:25.210 --> 01:05:40.710
So they have rights in in, in the Constitution, and also in the liver law. But it is not created in a way which is very flexible for the workers to produce a

361
01:05:40.750 --> 01:05:45.410
a trade union in the, in the system, I mean in the factory system.

362
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:58.910
then The seed no longer prioritize. the the Union system, because it is also. But say, as Bangladesh is a peripheral state, it always

363
01:05:58.920 --> 01:06:00.890
try to

364
01:06:01.140 --> 01:06:11.759
say, Help the the corporations like after ran up another incident you may have, have some information about it.

365
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:38.169
So what happened to due to some global pressure? There was introduction of echo and alliance, which is, a say, a an organization which provide the extradition to the companies, that these companies have some kind of workers safety facilities, but they are not focusing on the on the workers rights rather than the facility of the factory, whether it is proper or not.

366
01:06:38.390 --> 01:06:54.679
And also there are some some tactics. In the policy that an institution can produce, some kind of participatory committee which will eventually become a trade union. But this situation has created a convoluted.

367
01:06:54.760 --> 01:07:00.740
I mean tactics for the for the owners who are constructing

368
01:07:00.770 --> 01:07:16.949
the Participatory Committee which is serving their interest, not the workers interest, and also they are keeping it in a way that they will show to the buyers that they have some kind of worker support system. But that is not actually functional.

369
01:07:17.200 --> 01:07:42.359
So with this background, I tried to understand, say, so how these workers actually try to find their leverage and power in in this convoluted situation. So where they have no say no, no! Say lawful legal ways to portray their their demands in the, in the factories.

370
01:07:42.560 --> 01:07:43.720
So now

371
01:07:44.030 --> 01:07:52.789
my study is significant in a number of ways is, say, for example, Bangladesh has a

372
01:07:53.730 --> 01:08:07.979
has taken the Sdg goal, and it is also working in this. So it go. It goes with Sdd. And, on the other hand, the mazes taken to improve the workplace safety in the background to prana plus the collapse.

373
01:08:08.090 --> 01:08:21.999
is, is only to look at the say, the situation of the factory rather than the rights of the worker. On the other hand, no priority in establishing the trade union in the workplace.

374
01:08:22.130 --> 01:08:38.530
That doesn't mean there is no say trade union. There is trade union, but it is so say systematically, produced that it does not necessarily serve the interest of the workers. On the other hand.

375
01:08:38.610 --> 01:08:58.369
the the say, the emergence of trade union is very slow in the social situation where the system is connected with the say the say, the predatory capitalist system, where the political leaders. They are also the owner of the government companies.

376
01:08:58.410 --> 01:09:27.459
I mean the factories. And then when they produce the policies, they keep the say situation in a way that they can manipulate it and make the work as more I mean, bound to maintain the work. On the other hand, the whole industry is based on the woman worker, and as the women are in Bangladesh, more do silent have, I mean, lack education. So they also have

377
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:43.490
lack of errors about the the their rights. So what happened? The factory system and the managers are kept in a way they will always dominate these workers, and And they cannot pose their rights in a systematic manner.

378
01:09:43.850 --> 01:10:07.409
Then there is a and another thing is, say the Owners Association, which is called the Bgme, which is very strong in Bangladesh. On the other hand, there is no proper workers. Association in in Bangladesh, like there are all work associations, but the dominant political party. They also colonized all the federations, particularly the big federations, are controlled by that

379
01:10:07.440 --> 01:10:30.299
dominant political leaders. So what happened? This is also one kind of opportunist worker class who are dominating the industry, and they are also taking the advantage of the workers what they do. If there is any any crisis in the factory, they will take over that crisis. for I mean they will create a situation where they will dominate.

380
01:10:30.380 --> 01:10:36.439
the crisis! And also they do one kind of business called Jude business, which is

381
01:10:36.460 --> 01:10:59.029
the extra, but close of when something is made. So what happened? They are also associated with this business, so they also serve the interest of the owner of the company, and also they get the support from Bgm E. Which is the Business Owners Association. On the other hand, the workers adoration

382
01:10:59.110 --> 01:11:06.570
which is also dominated by those business owners. This is, has created the complicated situation.

383
01:11:06.900 --> 01:11:21.659
and for that reason I purposely selected the the federations which are controlled by leftist political parties. They are more on the, on the worker protest, and to their more I mean

384
01:11:21.770 --> 01:11:25.480
better than those who are actually controlling the system.

385
01:11:25.790 --> 01:11:39.780
So in this situation, I have 2 basic questions. which is part of a big research one is. What do the workers do at the given situation? And how do the workers find their leverage?

386
01:11:40.030 --> 01:11:42.070
Now say

387
01:11:42.190 --> 01:12:00.349
what I am going to contribute is identifying the chronic discontents of the trade unionism in Bangladesh, then the resilience capacity of the workers, how they are trying to find their leverage and the initiative and responses adopted by the workers to find new form of power and leverage.

388
01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:17.280
Now, in methodology, as I am a kind of a constructivist. So it is totally a qualitative, a study where I interviewed workers at least 16 workers and 2 worker leaders who are associated with

389
01:12:17.350 --> 01:12:40.820
Leftist political party rather than the brightest way. I mean the domain and political party. that's for a reason, because the dominant political party are controlling the whole working system because they are only supporting the interest of the owner rather than that worker. So what happened? I collected interviews from 2 workers, leaders and

390
01:12:40.860 --> 01:13:04.200
2 other people. One is Bangladesh Institute of Labor Studies. he is, say, involved in this kind of research for a long time, and also One person who is related to the say Doll, the Department of Labor in Bangladesh. Now he gave the interview what he. He was reluctant to give his

391
01:13:04.200 --> 01:13:23.959
association with this research. And then he also gave some reports on their activities. But what they did when he gave me the I mean the email that eventually I found the email was deleted, which I didn't do. But it was related

392
01:13:24.300 --> 01:13:36.220
so. So what happened? The key informants were these 4 people, the 2 worker leaders, and 2. One is from the government and the other is from the bills.

393
01:13:36.470 --> 01:13:45.069
and then I try to do some thematic analyzes which I I'm trying to build something

394
01:13:45.340 --> 01:14:15.850
 Now these are my findings. Say, I will show a conceptual framework on 3 important things. First thing is what is the actual context of of the chronic situation of the of the factories, diamond industry. And then how that is contributing to the I mean how they, these workers, are finding the leverage. So before going there, I will try to explain some of the situation of that

395
01:14:15.850 --> 01:14:45.249
the workplace. First one is said the false consciousness of our trade unionism. We have a history of false consciousness of trade unionism, because after the independence, the after 70 what I mean, 1971, what happened? The political situation of Bala Dish was pretty much Con related. So what happened in in there were due to factories in ballad they ship and to balanceish, actually Co. Dominated the duty industry.

396
01:14:45.310 --> 01:14:58.300
But what happened. Say, after 1971 say there were trade union practices, but some point due to some World Bank's pressure, it was

397
01:14:58.320 --> 01:15:14.879
The factory was stopped, and the whole blame was given to the worker leaders, I mean, the trade union leaders. So at that situation say, that continued throughout the time the new Liberal tactics introduced after

398
01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:28.480
19 eighties onward, and then the child liver and women liver entered in the in the garment industry. The emergence was actually from that a say, 1980 s. Onward.

399
01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:29.680
So

400
01:15:29.690 --> 01:15:49.880
so what happened? Say these false concerts? Consciousness about the trade unionism, that that it is a tool of violence that if there is a trade trade union in factory, then these workers will associate and do some kind of protest, and it will. it is not good, and it was constructed. Because

401
01:15:49.880 --> 01:16:05.599
if you, if you look at a Bangladesh, as I have already mentioned, that it is a pretty to a capitalist society, where everything is controlled by the by the owners. So what happened? All medias are also controlled by owners, so who also have some

402
01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:25.599
some industries, particularly they are associated with Bgma. So what happened? They say, produce this kind of propaganda, like tulip violence, rumbling strike. These are associated with trade union, it trade unionism. So it is also kind of a dartty word in Bangladesh.

403
01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:42.189
although we don't mention it in this way. But but Like it is a kind of a monster for the for the workers, because if someone take this kind of name they are taken away. Say, I will mention the systematically created 4 years.

404
01:16:42.190 --> 01:17:06.489
First thing is, they will give some trade that you are trying to associate, so it is not good for our factory. They will be fired, they will be intimidated. In some cases they will be blacklisted by social media like the the supervisors will collect their pictures, and then they will share that in the Hub, and then eventually what will happen? They will never get the job

405
01:17:06.790 --> 01:17:21.080
so, and the peaking up it. It happens for the women workers, those who are pregnant, but happen they they are, say, but somehow they figure out who are pregnant because there are policies that you have to give.

406
01:17:21.300 --> 01:17:43.850
say, Paid leave to the workers. But what happened in some compliant factories? They allow it for fast, child, but for the second child they will figure it out, and eventually they will fire them then with help payment, and also blacklisting. Then prevention of the practice of trade unions, say the collaboration of owner and corrupt offices.

407
01:17:43.850 --> 01:18:05.609
The Bgma has good link with with some lawyers. So when when I was associated with bills. I found that when I entered in those seminar I found some representatives from Bgme. They were so invested that they will always protect the interest of the owners rather than that.

408
01:18:05.610 --> 01:18:26.120
workers. And they will create some kind of situation that will the workers or these types of institutions that are trying to stop the practice of government worker garment factories in Bangladesh, because and also it is an economic Trade board for Bangladesh.

409
01:18:26.120 --> 01:18:41.880
So, so they are constructing this in a systematic manner. Then also the establishing pocket unions. Now, these pocket units, they consider it as Yolo Union. As well say these pocketing units are in the pocket of the owners.

410
01:18:41.880 --> 01:19:02.659
These junior unions were constructed independently, but eventually the owners bought the leaders of the institution. So they were system that how the leadership will be given. But this situation is, say, bricked with a

411
01:19:02.660 --> 01:19:14.159
well, owners! Tactics! So what happened. The union is controlled by the I mean the those unions that is still there. They are controlled by the owners.

412
01:19:14.160 --> 01:19:30.959
then pays it trade union. They are also basically because these workers, they are not educated enough and also their rights is not, say, say, protected and by the state, because there are systems that I have already discussed. So

413
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:46.309
What happens if they don't get the priority? Then? Producing mistrust. So only in some cases, if they can associate with some Federation, not the trade union only. In that case their case will be solved.

414
01:19:46.310 --> 01:20:01.059
but at the expense of some money not without payment. That is only because it is some kind of contribution for the for the Federation that if if there is dispute you you will get Say.

415
01:20:01.160 --> 01:20:19.679
if there is any lacking of a wage, in that case they will collect it. And they took the 25% of that and provide all the money to the workers. Then the owner-friendly provision of a balanced neighbor act, that is it to introduce Welfare Participatory Committee, which is.

416
01:20:19.710 --> 01:20:33.810
systematically, say, reducing the practice of trade unionism in Bangladesh? Because, because they are showing that you already have some kind of welfare facility. So why do we need any kind of trade in here?

417
01:20:34.060 --> 01:20:48.890
Then the registration of trade union? It is very slow. In some cases there is a a provision that. that to 25% workers should provide the constant. But what happened in one floor? There are more than

418
01:20:48.890 --> 01:21:14.140
3,000 workers. It's the if they that is a 4 story building. Then they're on huge number of work, and it becomes difficult to collect the constant in a time bound situation where they are collecting the information. And also if someone is trying to build that there are CCTV. surveillance through which they will figure out who is trying to build this kind of association, and they will

419
01:21:14.140 --> 01:21:43.509
file that person. Then the inactive trade union which is in some cases show off to the buyers who go to the work to say. Even the workers say that when the bias come they usually, say, become very cautious, and what they do all the leisure book they started hiding. And also they such as these workers that what you should tell if someone asks something to you

420
01:21:43.690 --> 01:22:02.070
so that that is the case of the most of the subcontract factories, but some big factories they are good because they are aligned with the but I mean, they are compliant factories. So in some cases they have this rule.

421
01:22:03.190 --> 01:22:23.939
Now the second one is saved, how they find their power and leverage. So the first one is they. They create local, informal committees. That is not legal. So it's kind of an extra legal tactic. So which is not protected by the government law. So what happened? The industrial factories

422
01:22:23.940 --> 01:22:45.800
say, but particularly the the Federation. They have some volunteers installed in the The factory locations say where where the workers leave. So what happened? They create some kind of association there with with some organizers related to the workplace, say organizers, then volunteers.

423
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They build teams outside of the factory, and then they try to convince others that say, Come and associate with our group. Then we will build some kind of training.

424
01:22:59.110 --> 01:23:00.030
So

425
01:23:00.310 --> 01:23:25.010
so a. And also they, they have justification for it. They always tell that it is In our constitution there is freedom of association. So, although in the in the label, or it is not there I mean in the level, or the situation is created that you cannot protest without a trade union. If you protest, then it will be considered as violence. So what happened

426
01:23:25.010 --> 01:23:50.489
These workers, save always shows that balance ratified the convention I mean the Ilo Convention 87, and then also in our Constitution there is freedom of association, so they can associate independently they want. But what happened, as there is, say, new thing is introduction of industrial police. They also try to figure out this type of association. We're thinking to

427
01:23:50.490 --> 01:24:11.610
create some kind of conflicting situation. And the second thing is techniques of local communities. So they built local committees in different parts of the factory areas. And then they they say, take some organizers. So most of their cases. No one is interested to enter in this kind of

428
01:24:11.610 --> 01:24:33.139
committees, because they always fear about that job. So what happened? They those workers who who face some kind of I mean those who have some kind of grievance. They usually get associated with these committees. Usually the other workers who have no problem. They will never enter in these kind of committees.

429
01:24:33.300 --> 01:24:50.689
and also these committees are run by the contribution of the workers say they can solve the case of an worker, then they will get some money, and that way they will process this, then factory level teams in some cases in some factory. They have teams. So

430
01:24:51.450 --> 01:24:59.799
so what they do say say, with this team. They create awareness within the building, and that's how they

431
01:24:59.800 --> 01:25:21.519
they try to find their power and leverage, and also a new thing that I found the use of mobile phone and social media that they say say the workers usually mobilize to social media now, and also the the mobile phone. But there are chances of rumors, and that may cause some kind of problem in

432
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:40.000
sometimes some types of problem in the factory. Now, this is the whole conceptual framework, that this present state of chronic say a discontent that is contributing to the new form of I mean, they are looking for new form of power and leverage, and

433
01:25:40.370 --> 01:25:47.469
say to say, as they have no legal way to do it, so what they do, they create these kind of informal committees

434
01:25:47.480 --> 01:25:55.420
and local organizations. So they they build these networks and try to portray their demands in situation.

435
01:25:55.550 --> 01:25:59.359
So that's all. Thank you.

436
01:25:59.540 --> 01:26:00.560
Thank you.

437
01:26:03.760 --> 01:26:12.879
Okay, thank you very much, all, all of you. We have a session for questions, comments.

438
01:26:19.860 --> 01:26:22.440
anyone from the public.

439
01:26:22.730 --> 01:26:23.630
Okay?

440
01:26:25.810 --> 01:26:28.420
Any question. Comment. Yes.

441
01:26:29.550 --> 01:26:33.509
You can come here if you went to the front.

442
01:26:34.230 --> 01:26:41.829
Yeah, okay, yeah, he's coming. Thank you.

443
01:27:09.780 --> 01:27:11.400
I love this.

444
01:27:11.870 --> 01:27:16.840
I should come here. no, no, go ahead. Yes.

445
01:27:18.200 --> 01:27:21.480
I found new research very interesting. So

446
01:27:21.530 --> 01:27:28.339
In 1 point you said you didn't count. the agriculture workers right

447
01:27:28.620 --> 01:27:37.859
in your sampling, and the reason you say it because those are not very formal kind of level force.

448
01:27:38.970 --> 01:27:44.770
which I do not agree with you in some cases.

449
01:27:44.800 --> 01:28:07.069
especially in India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal, Southeast Asian societies like agriculture! Most of the people, I think, more than 70% of the people in both in agriculture and farming activities. So you really cannot deny and say that those are not has a kind of formal level force, and

450
01:28:07.110 --> 01:28:10.939
you might have other logic. But if you just say.

451
01:28:11.000 --> 01:28:12.820
because those are not

452
01:28:12.960 --> 01:28:16.400
 you mentioned about

453
01:28:16.430 --> 01:28:17.550
on.

454
01:28:20.510 --> 01:28:21.200
Yeah.

455
01:28:21.310 --> 01:28:34.159
I like the trending level force something like that. So you said you wanted to mean, those are very traditional out of economic activities something.

456
01:28:34.220 --> 01:28:45.310
but I think you might have some other logic of not including them. So can you explain it more? Please me? Yeah, she can

457
01:28:48.300 --> 01:28:53.229
to. We're going to clarifying this machine. I think he's up on a better question.

458
01:28:55.350 --> 01:28:56.180
a jump.

459
01:29:05.810 --> 01:29:18.300
Okay? Yeah. So I think it's probably unique in terms of the Chinese contacts because they're not really agricultural workers. They're peasants

460
01:29:18.410 --> 01:29:36.520
like for agriculture workers. They probably work for some like farms which they have like private owners. Or if they're really kind of the owner of certain farms. But in China that lands owned by the State, so the patent they do not own the land they work on. They're more like the family base.

461
01:29:36.660 --> 01:29:54.889
you know, allocated by the state you work on this farm for your household, based on how many members in your household. That's how I feel like it's there, you know, at some sense there, in terms of we're talking about like the 3 dimensions. 3 dimensions of precariousness.

462
01:29:55.080 --> 01:30:00.430
They're all on the 3 dimensions. So they're absolutely bad jobs. And also

463
01:30:00.690 --> 01:30:09.980
they're not really kind of walkers in this kind of labor market sense. That's why I exclude them. Otherwise, you know, they are all bad jobs.

464
01:30:10.570 --> 01:30:19.620
So maybe it's different from like India or other Western country in terms of like their walkers. They're not really workers. They're peasants.

465
01:30:20.100 --> 01:30:26.040
They don't have ownership of the land, or they don't have this kind of employer employee relations.

466
01:30:26.530 --> 01:30:31.200
so that at least like 8 people on one good.

467
01:30:32.020 --> 01:30:58.489
So it's like a people are working on those who are working agricultural activities or those who are involved in agricultural activities. It means like they always take lease from the government. And isn't there any other people who are working like you'd you'd take a lease from the government, and I'm working on your land. I think those kind of play but are also available in in a new country. So I like, like, I'm a working for you.

468
01:30:58.610 --> 01:31:14.730
I think that's pretty pretty rare, because all the land belongs to a State. There's no private owners like, even for like residential housing, for example, like people only own 70 years for that house.

469
01:31:14.730 --> 01:31:37.929
not the land. Yeah, yeah, I I can understand that land land have to be leased from the Government, and there is no private properties in land. like Mr. Ax, take the lease from the Government, and I am a I'm a lever. I don't have the capacity to take lease from the Government. So what I'm doing I'm working for in her in her form.

470
01:31:38.120 --> 01:31:47.409
Mr. Axe, palm in, in, in, in her agricultural land. I'm working on behalf of her

471
01:31:47.600 --> 01:32:14.880
because she's pouring money to me. So I think those kind of people are also available in your country. But in that sense, if they really have like employer employee relationship, then that will that'll be included in this called labour market. They will consider as workers. And that will be in my sample. That's why you can see there's 2 small percentage of people in the rural areas doesn't mean that I totally exclude. You know, the rural labor market.

472
01:32:15.240 --> 01:32:22.670
So that was my consonant. All right. Yeah, thanks for that question. I hope I clarified that. All right.

473
01:32:22.709 --> 01:32:27.850
Thank you. Yes, another.

474
01:32:29.780 --> 01:32:30.600
Okay.

475
01:32:31.690 --> 01:32:35.310
Maybe I will go. There

476
01:32:35.660 --> 01:32:38.079
might be that or

477
01:32:38.809 --> 01:32:43.239
Hello, I I would like to

478
01:32:44.270 --> 01:32:59.199
excuse me. I I forgot your name. Yes. Brenda, I have a question for Brenda. Thank you for your report, and in my opinion, precarity has a specific picture that

479
01:32:59.820 --> 01:33:03.360
that can be described as a trap.

480
01:33:03.580 --> 01:33:11.230
From which it is difficult to quit. and if I understand, I I correctly understood your report.

481
01:33:11.709 --> 01:33:18.399
You said that in China the degree of precarity depends on

482
01:33:18.450 --> 01:33:32.070
who call status or residential differentiate difference? If so, is it possible for a Chinese person to improve his job quality by changing his hooko status.

483
01:33:32.170 --> 01:33:37.769
And do you agree with with the view that precarity is a trap?

484
01:33:38.230 --> 01:33:46.020
I mean It's a trip! When a person find it difficult to quit to get out of it. Thank you.

485
01:33:49.160 --> 01:34:04.509
Thank you very much for this question. It's very interesting question, and also a good question. So in terms of precarity. You know, there's no universal definition. So that's how I try to define as as a multi-dimensional thing. So it doesn't mean that

486
01:34:04.580 --> 01:34:14.960
your job is put here. So you have to really tap all 3 dimensions. If you have, you know, all 3 dimensions of precariousness definitely, your job is

487
01:34:15.110 --> 01:34:35.739
pretty precarious, but in terms of like, you may actually have one or 2, you know, dimensional security that you may think that your job is not that bad. But still, you know, if you have one or 2, this kind of dimensions, or a that of precariousness, that your job at is kind of, as some level of precarative.

488
01:34:36.020 --> 01:34:48.300
and in terms of like the Huco status. If you remember, in terms of the figure that show in terms of status, it's no longer in terms of this kind of division between urban,

489
01:34:48.666 --> 01:35:09.949
rural, or local. Now local, which is kind of a scribe status which you know you only earn by, you know. Add your birthplace, which you cannot change it. But nowadays that you can, because we have this capability. You, if you're from like a small town small. So they you can probably migrant to other bigger cities.

490
01:35:10.030 --> 01:35:23.869
And there's, you know you can through yourself after to because some big cities like Beijing and Shanghai. They have their like poem base system that you can actually apply for this kind of

491
01:35:23.900 --> 01:35:52.819
Huco conversion. And you can become, you know, the local Beijing resident. So it's It's like, if you're considered about like immigration, like, if you will apply for like the permanent resident in Australia, for example, and then you become the new resident new Australian. And if you further would like to get a censorship, and you will become, you know, Australian by citizenship. So that's kind of way you can move a little bit

492
01:35:52.950 --> 01:36:00.260
upward in terms of you know your who code status to try to be kind of.

493
01:36:00.310 --> 01:36:08.709
at least in terms of less disadvantage in terms of this local restriction on the liver market

494
01:36:08.880 --> 01:36:24.529
outcomes, because for some big cities like Beijing and Shanghai, and they have the restrictions. Sometimes it can can be like hidden like they in their job pose. They would prefer someone who already have the who call the local who go, because then it's

495
01:36:24.530 --> 01:36:43.509
better for the employer to have this more kind of long, long-term workers without this kind of complications about. If they are migrant, they have to deal with their identity, their status issue. So that's kind of the way you can actually prove a little bit. But, as you can see in my resolve.

496
01:36:43.510 --> 01:36:59.250
as some people actually predict, as this kind of declining significant of Huco and particular in terms of. Because last year, when I did this work, which only include from 2,010 to 2,017,

497
01:36:59.250 --> 01:37:17.030
and Hugo was more in terms of the number of the the coefficient. That was larger. But when I include this most recent 2 years, 2018, 2021. Now I actually can see that the number actually is declining, and lur. I would like to compare probably

498
01:37:17.060 --> 01:37:44.739
each year, and in terms of comparison, Compared to this number of the shave coefficient of Fukuo's certification, and see if it's really declining. But I have this kind of sense in terms of, especially for the other 2 dimensions in terms of work related benefits and labor labor contract, which are weekly kind of the the. The impact of Hco is actually weaker.

499
01:37:44.740 --> 01:37:56.130
but still in terms of like what we have a good you know, low-pay job, or really kind of decent pay. It's still kind of determined by the Hugo status.

500
01:37:56.760 --> 01:37:58.530
Yeah, thank you.

501
01:37:58.650 --> 01:38:02.240
Thank you. Another question. Yeah.

502
01:38:02.700 --> 01:38:03.950
Come here.

503
01:38:04.210 --> 01:38:05.550
please.

504
01:38:08.740 --> 01:38:31.430
Hi. And my name is Ilan, and I'm from the University of Pennsylvania in Germany. And my question goes to Lin, what's your name. and thank you for your presentation. I thought it was very interesting, and I like the way you describe as a social security system for workers, I would say, like the way they get secure. But I wouldn't say it's that this dirty word union for me, like you know, for me, is collective action

505
01:38:31.590 --> 01:38:37.350
the way you describe it, more like an individual way to get security. So I don't know if you can

506
01:38:37.510 --> 01:38:47.409
explain how you describe it as a union. You know what I mean. Like, you find something, someone who can help you that know someone who can help you. This is like an individual way to get help.

507
01:38:47.590 --> 01:38:55.299
But for me the unionizing is, we workers are all together, and all equal against capitalism or against capital.

508
01:39:01.180 --> 01:39:26.959
Alright to answer your question. Yes, of course, for labor union you have collective action, including strikes and stuff. But it seems like more I'm presenting here is more or less like a local helper instead of a union, of course. But so this is a story I kind of didn't mention enough, because I forgot to translate that into English, but it was on the Pvt. That they have a massive strike in 2,018 it's stifled, and it incited by

509
01:39:26.960 --> 01:39:51.959
their connection got captured into prison, and then they had a massive track. But how did they? This they didn't call this strike. They call it okay. We can just just go back to Nanta. We just go back to, you know, to visit our family and friends and, etc., before you tweak our payment. we're not going to come back to Beijing because we miss our family member in N Channel. So of course, there are certain kind of class

510
01:39:51.960 --> 01:40:16.820
going on here. But, however, it is obviously not as intensive or as effective as a labor union. So that's why I said, this is not exactly a labor union. This is exactly a pseudo replacement of union without you, you really using the word of union? Because well, first of all, they don't really have a union there. Secondly, if you do that, you'll get into prison because you you will be violated. The criminal charge of looking for trouble in Chinese

511
01:40:16.880 --> 01:40:27.810
constitution, a criminal act. So of course, this is not exactly a functional you need. This is something that's replacing, because there's a void there. And there's a need. So I think this is an answer for you. Thank you.

512
01:40:29.750 --> 01:40:32.590
Okay. Another question.

513
01:40:33.990 --> 01:40:36.020
We yeah.

514
01:40:36.160 --> 01:40:41.730
I don't know. I have a question for all of you, even for

515
01:40:41.970 --> 01:40:43.050
a

516
01:40:43.650 --> 01:40:53.560
I was wondering because we speak. The title of the session was about autism. Yeah. So I would like to to be back to this

517
01:40:53.670 --> 01:41:00.389
semantic. And I would like to ask you how you can.

518
01:41:00.760 --> 01:41:16.610
Finally, the ecosystem is the the ecosystem is the all the state dream about ecosystem, because it's organized population and workers with different status and its territorial.

519
01:41:16.990 --> 01:41:25.269
It depends of territories. We have nearly the system in different countries like that

520
01:41:25.320 --> 01:41:38.049
Kafala. These different visa, which are linked to sectors and type of activities or type of of right you have. So I wanted to. I was wondering if you can.

521
01:41:38.060 --> 01:41:42.739
all of you, even the you, Tanya, to

522
01:41:43.470 --> 01:41:58.380
to tell us what are the big changes with the authoritarian? I mean like how the State can. impulse! Some differences. Some

523
01:41:58.560 --> 01:42:10.849
Does the the state of the Government have impact on union? Are the unions new hackers of this way of organized society? So I would like to

524
01:42:11.020 --> 01:42:14.759
to have a little bit of debate about this question from you.

525
01:42:21.340 --> 01:42:24.890
Does anyone want to to comment?

526
01:42:26.180 --> 01:42:29.690
Yeah. yeah.

527
01:42:30.060 --> 01:42:50.100
alright. So because you know, the hockey system is quite unique in China, and even it can be understand as like a internal passport but still is, you know, I, when I consider about this as kind of awful tearing system is because stay actually controls that.

528
01:42:50.180 --> 01:43:02.790
and especially when it was during. You know, the Socialist China, when actually have a sharp division between urban and rural, which actually prevent rural population to move to urban

529
01:43:03.280 --> 01:43:14.000
regions, that's a way to, you know, sustain people, you know, working on farms to feed those small number of people living in the cities.

530
01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:33.920
But you know, as kind of retreat of the stay power is largely due to this kind of globalization and transition toward capitalist economy. Because, for you know, develop, it's kind of like capitalist economy. You need this labor mobility. So that's how we have this.

531
01:43:34.140 --> 01:43:39.000
Who called reform to further relax this kind of restriction.

532
01:43:39.030 --> 01:44:03.600
but still that we can see that at some point the stay still sees this control in terms of what people can convert their hook to the local ones, and in terms of like there's still more kind of barrier in terms of getting certain. You know large cities. local, who go. So that's how the control it's still there. But if we consider about like

533
01:44:03.960 --> 01:44:21.130
over the 40 years the the empath has been declined, but still I'm certain about like the the current government, whether there's a, you know, return of the State power. So we need to continue to look at that. Thank you.

534
01:44:21.930 --> 01:44:22.750
Okay.

535
01:44:25.600 --> 01:44:27.100
Oh.

536
01:44:27.740 --> 01:44:33.330
beating. Do you want to comment? Or Jennifer

537
01:44:33.920 --> 01:44:35.480
Jennifer?

538
01:44:36.210 --> 01:44:39.680
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: It's it's it

539
01:44:41.040 --> 01:44:44.600
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: remotely. See? Okay.

540
01:44:47.620 --> 01:45:13.429
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: See, I'm going to speak in English, and I'm also kind of speaking Spanish so that vision can comment. So my question in English, so that everyone is so aware of what I'm going to ask you to think is how, in her observations, how authoritarian liberal labor policies have changed. How different groups approach, work and mobilize to voice their concerns or fail to do so.

541
01:45:35.620 --> 01:45:49.399
Okay, okay, she will translate the the answer. Okay, okay, she will translate the the answer. Okay, okay, she will translate the the answer. Okay, very hand you. You can go ahead.

542
01:46:49.190 --> 01:47:05.409
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: Yeah. So I asked you hang, you know, to talk a little bit about how she observes how different groups approach work, and what are some of the changes that they have

543
01:47:05.430 --> 01:47:35.169
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: experience in the sense of how they organize to articulate their concerns. So what they had just expressed. She provided a samples of of teachers in Puerto Rico, and she made a distinction between the subjective experience of this teachers, and how that subjectivity informs how they organize, particularly how gender norms and gender practices have have come into play in the way that they organize to voice their concerns.

544
01:47:51.590 --> 01:47:53.450
Virgen Caceres: E,

545
01:48:11.640 --> 01:48:13.730
Virgen Caceres: a.

546
01:48:15.030 --> 01:48:18.490
Virgen Caceres: A.

547
01:48:59.880 --> 01:49:02.730
Virgen Caceres: A.

548
01:49:12.720 --> 01:49:39.310
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: Okay. So so what's if you can translate that, we can finish very quickly. Yeah, so pretty much what we're heading is pointing out. And I think this is important, because, you know, it's the case of of working for is that this authoritarian, your liberal labor policies have really challenged solidarity. so the solidarity that was observed back in the day or years ago is no longer observed or as strong

549
01:49:39.310 --> 01:49:42.969
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: and it it it so challenge to how

550
01:49:42.970 --> 01:50:12.930
Jenniffer Santos-Hernández: workers experience work and how they construct work and value the importance of work in their lives. in, particularly with all the different programs that have, you know, that were presented or offered to people during the pandemic that has also contributed to it's Saturday some of those changes, or or decline in solidarity that that was being observed before the pandemic. So thank you, Gracia, I've been hanging.

551
01:50:13.130 --> 01:50:20.210
Okay, thank you. any of you want to comment on on dolphins questions.

552
01:50:21.310 --> 01:50:46.300
I'm gonna go quick here because I I I I have a privilege of speaking later than Professor Wu, and she does good research on who code system. So it's going to be quick. So to to to add to what Msu has said, a person who had said, it's basically different in different cities, for instance, in make a cities tier one. Cities like Beijing and Shanghai. They want to loosen the Whoco system and they get control of the people because they want more people to come in. They want more people to buy their house.

553
01:50:46.300 --> 01:51:09.840
and then to to elevate the land prices, and and then eventually get the speculation going on at and better. But, however, for small cities, because they got very limited. you know power to absorb these new labors high in labors. So we're seeing a different rate of loosening this hucosystem. So I would say, I'm pretty optimistic about the possibility of continuous

554
01:51:09.840 --> 01:51:34.619
losing of the local system and more access to work for these labor, and probably like medicare and housing for smaller cities. But for Mega cities, as because Beijing has conducted a counter campaign against overpopulation, and they have been excluding these so called low-end labors and low end people in Beijing since 2,017. So I would say, different cities have different perspective when they when it comes to

555
01:51:34.620 --> 01:51:51.439
that, the future of Huco and a labor control mechanism. I would say so. I would say China in general, maybe because we had declining population. But in special cities, especially like Beijing or Shanghai probably has more problems. I think that's a brief answer. Okay.

556
01:51:53.710 --> 01:51:55.069
what is it

557
01:52:00.970 --> 01:52:14.090
so? In case of hockey system, I am pretty much not aware of it properly so I will give some other examples from Bangladesh, particularly in case of water,

558
01:52:14.160 --> 01:52:39.670
say in sheet breaking industry, and also in water transport industry in Bangladesh I mean the inland water transport industry, and I have but say, but have some experience in this. 2 persons of labor research. In in both places I found different type of practices. Some cases there are government control, say, for example, the

559
01:52:39.680 --> 01:52:46.989
the government industry. It is totally controlled by the Owners Association. Those owners who are also leading the country.

560
01:52:47.260 --> 01:52:58.990
and also Bangladesh. The Democrats is not practiced properly, because the whole election system is pretty much on raging, so it's very difficult.

561
01:52:59.060 --> 01:53:12.390
On the other hand, in in in water transport industry. I found that they have a very great history in case of Workers Federation in in the water transport system.

562
01:53:12.400 --> 01:53:25.130
but still within the factory system. There is some kind of authoritarian practice driver of the sheep, I mean those who are the

563
01:53:25.280 --> 01:53:46.210
and also those who are the engine manager. They have some kind of say, authoritative power within the group of the labor organization, because they can. If they stop the working, then there will be some intense effect. Otherwise, if other workers who are involved in some kind of.

564
01:53:46.210 --> 01:53:56.950
say, hosting the whole facilities, they have no impact because they are small workers, and also they are recruited by those

565
01:53:56.950 --> 01:54:09.149
Who actually the the manager of the ship. So in the Federation they get more priority than the than the workers, and also there are local trade unions.

566
01:54:09.150 --> 01:54:33.470
They are also some trade unions are managed by the local leaders. Those are dominated by the political party. But in case of, say, this particular inland water system there is dominance of the Federation, which is, pretty much out of the authoritarian system, but still there are hierarchy of workers, so there is some kind of authority.

567
01:54:33.480 --> 01:54:43.189
and in case of sheep breaking industry, it is then what happened? The whole industry has already given the work in a subcontract system.

568
01:54:43.670 --> 01:54:46.430
The labor managed levers.

569
01:54:46.440 --> 01:54:58.629
so they have created an an association. There is no link of the owner particularly. No one can tell that they are part of that. particular Sheep! Yet

570
01:54:58.750 --> 01:55:12.079
they are, say, working for a particular labor organization. They manage all the label, and they created some kind of systematic tactics where there is a cycle of labor

571
01:55:12.240 --> 01:55:30.079
migration, and then again, they are bound to come back, for example, in in Bangladesh there is a place which which is not in coastal area we call it Monga area, which is totally based on some kind of

572
01:55:30.250 --> 01:55:32.550
famine driven

573
01:55:32.560 --> 01:55:43.790
say, but reverie location where people have a very low income. So what they do, they migrate in these sheep industry, breaking industries.

574
01:55:43.820 --> 01:55:48.909
So they worked there for the workers.

575
01:55:49.050 --> 01:55:59.710
those who have control, that shipping cheap. Yet what they do when they work they they are not paid properly. They only get the amount for food.

576
01:55:59.760 --> 01:56:28.069
and they have to keep some kind of credit in in that particular place. So what happened at some point, although they have some kind of dream that one day they will get to their home and do something, but never happened. When they get their home they find it to one flood Say, take away the their thing, then eventually they become improvised, then again migrate to the workplace, and then again go through this credit system.

577
01:56:28.070 --> 01:56:44.790
So this authoritarian practices are very complicated in case of in case of liberty, there are policy which is all already controlled by the government, and those who are the upper within the government, I mean those who are the politicians

578
01:56:45.030 --> 01:57:01.060
involving business, and also in the politics they are creating the policies. On the other hand, they are creating the tactics in a manner that they can save, create the systematic authority and practices. Thank you.

579
01:57:01.280 --> 01:57:23.649
Thank you very much. I think we are almost done. We we thank you all. We thank all your volunteers. Thank you for their support. We thank the presenters very good presentations, and we'll keep in contact. And we'll we'll keep talking about these things

580
01:57:23.920 --> 01:57:32.430
this afternoon. We have yeah, a business meeting, right? You want to.

581
01:57:32.480 --> 01:57:35.610
Some things are so

582
01:57:36.180 --> 01:57:40.750
at the end of the week we will continue to do it until

583
01:57:52.030 --> 01:57:57.349
even in the business meeting our family is in.

584
01:57:57.540 --> 01:58:00.370
Yes.

585
01:58:00.410 --> 01:58:12.899
here in this room. Right? 7, 30. Yes. okay, thank you. We'll see you. Okay.