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And the welcome screen is that little symbol there. I'm sure. Don't go far. Yeah All right, well we might get started.

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Welcome everyone on this early Saturday morning or a Friday afternoon or wherever else you are in the world. As I mentioned before, my name is Susan Carlin. I am the chair of this session.

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I'm feeling in for Michael who I think is on a plane as we speak. I'm going to start by doing the acknowledgement of country that we do at the start of every session here at the ISA conference and we actually for those of you that don't know we normally do an acknowledgement of country before pretty much every event

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we have in Australia meetings and big events and those kind of things. So on behalf of everyone gathered, I pay respect to the spirit of country here in Naom where we are meeting.

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I acknowledge the past and present cooler nation Warunduri Waong as the sovereign people here, the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the Narm Aboriginal law, customs and custodian ship responsibilities for country and the people.

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Thank you. And the people that country continues to sustain generation after generation into their future for all of us.

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I recognise the important contribution that First Nations thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all First Nations delegates in the room today for their contributions to knowledge. In the discipline. All right, well, 2 matters to update.

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Particularly our presenters. It's wonderful to have you joining us today, Tunde and Elena and letting you know that the other 2 speakers are not here.

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Hmm.

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Which means I will be more gentle with you about the time limit than I may have otherwise been. So I'm going to very generously give you even 20 min if you would like and it also means it will have more time really to ask questions and discuss the topics that you're both presenting which will be wonderful.

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Thank you.

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So this is good news for you and I'm sure for us as we hear your presentations. So today if you were ready would you like to begin your presentation?

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Yes, yes.

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Do you need to share any screen? Content? I paid perfect. Yeah, he's done it.

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Great. We don't need to do anything. He can do that. Perfect.

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Okay, can I start now?

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All right. Thank you so much. Take it away.

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Okay, hello everyone. Good evening from Ligas, Nigeria. So, my name is, I'm a peer use Sasha in sociology.

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But I teach somebody here in Nigeria, the So, this presentation is part of my, PG work.

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So my PhD and title is experience and integration of Nigeria migrants. In the United States and at the end.

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The case of health and employment. So I'm looking at the, experiences and the essence of integration of Negro migrants where the US and UK.

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So one of the factors that I'm looking at as a possible predictor of what's the best experience or integration is religion.

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That came across these 2 interesting conceptes, mostly in penalty and jumping out. So I started to share my finance with you.

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So, following the 9 11 attack the address and increase in the essence of you know this backlash against Islam.

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Should I say this is let me guess Muslims because my my research my friend is actually showed that they are not the same.

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Discrimination against Muslims is completely against Islam. Actually, they are different. Sorry, I'm trying to remove this thing from my screen.

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I.

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Yeah, okay. So, in Western countries, atoms do sentiments and xenophobia have grown substantially.

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So in the fourth, 20 fourth century and this Thomas, Muslim Penalty, Japanati, actually describe discrimination against Muslims.

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So mostly by now, it speaks to discrimination against Muslims in general. Why It explains the kind of intersection.

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Do your religion. Agenda and not just religion and gender but also appearance. Because it could be, a female Muslim.

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And it's time not to wear the e-jail. So the Japanese describes, you know, it's a kind of in taxation.

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Okay, John, Genda.

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So there don't be no sense. To differentiate between good Muslims. On but Muslims.

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So good Muslims are those you know who follow the preachers of Islam, the trailing. They follow everything in the Quran and the teachings of the prophets.

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Why the moderate Muslims? So I mean, the bad Muslims, quotes, are the ones who follow the teachers of the of the prophet and everything in the of the prophets and everything in the Quran, why the good Muslims put on.

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Or what describe as what with Muslims in the sense that they don't follow everything. For instance, good Muslims.

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For you that they can maybe drink or see a while, they go to club and so on. So it'll see why we got it often, you know, in the public, space as moderate Muslims or good Muslims, but one fully teaches.

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No, you know, at the most barricade as as bad Muslims. Put on a good.

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So these are some of we think there are some indicators of a certain activity because it's difficult to tell.

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Who is the Muslim? And which is the Muslim. So name is one of them. Nationalities are happening.

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For instance, it's not safe to get from Afghanistan. Oh, from Somalia. Because, in majority between those countries are Muslims.

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So next one is dressing. You know, there's, there's this, we job is one of them.

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There's Jalobia for men and not keeping with the Bridge, which is the full addition of the profits is order form or to indicate that this person is a Muslim and is the way to differentiate that this person is a Muslim and is the way to differentiate between Muslims and it's the way to differentiate between Muslims and

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and from non Muslims and I'm from non Muslims so the question is what happens when the normally dresses like a Muslim.

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If for instance, you are a Muslim. Are you will be jump? Are you likely to be committed against?

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Are you likely to experience the jump penalty? So you got know if you are Muslim, I don't look like one.

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Are you likely to experience Muslim announcing? So do that do that I'm trying to park in this aspect of my PhD work.

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So this is my first question. My start is after we ask questions here. The first one is the Muslim migrants differ.

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From non-Muslim migrants. That's a labor market and health experiences. So this aspect is, is the constructive aspects.

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Of this presentation. The second one speaks to The qualitative aspect. We'll be discussing the encounters.

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Of the Nigerians with discrimination against Muslim migrants in I'm speaking to not just mostly my parents, but Nigerian my grants in general.

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In Germany, that's why the US are UK.

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So my methods. So I use the MICHELLEGUE to population. Actually collected data online.

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So, I collected, 256 online summary responses, you know, because that are useful once or on 29 from the US.

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1 27 from the UK and I did 31 online interviews. I'm trying to write this.

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Okay, that's how I'll like to have you. And 14 from the from the UK.

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So this map here shows. The states and counties. The US. Were represented in my in my serving.

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So in the in the US. Very nice tapes were represented at least, either at least. One person completed.

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You saw it from this. Should it pass in Orange? So in the UK, 26 counties were represented.

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The sorry but for the interview test it in the US are represented Docking counties in the UK were represented.

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So for the alternative aspects, these are my indicators of integration or experience. So for global marketing policy.

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7 is the market outcome. Todd is here at outcomes. Forth is access to 8 care services and the last one is the experience of discrimination in So for my data analysis, I use SPS for to money the quasic data and everyone to manage the So during my analysis, I utilize some aspects, you know.

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of, nutshell, not granatory as it would because it's quite in very, low press, process.

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So I use some aspects. Of, guaranteed my data analysis in the positive aspect. So here my results for the first.

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Research question which deals with the positive aspects. So there is no significant difference between mostly migrants are not Muslim migrants in terms of labour market equality.

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That was, we have similar similar problems to the market quality. So also there's no difference or significant difference between male Muslim migrants.

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Mail not mostly migrants. Commun Muslim migrants are familiar with my grandmother. Also, there's something we can do.

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Among USBC migrants. US mostly migrants. You can Muslim migrants. In other words, for all these.

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Findings. No single account was, observed.

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At least for liberal markets equality. So labour market outcome. And overall, mostly migrants did not. Default significantly from no Muslim migrants.

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In Gallip Markets. Hi, FEMA mostly mine grant reported being terminated from people because employment.

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Don't femur. So for me mostly my got unlikely to I mean I don't, so I didn't want, or been terminator from previous jobs compared to, non Muslim So also, Single, was observed across the US are UK.

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So in the US mostly migrants reported being termed from a previous job. Compared to those one non Muslims.

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So in the UK, since in, since an So in the UK, 26% of UK Muslims reported, to have been, dominated from a previous job up here to 21.6% of those, who are not most users.

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So if you look at this quickly, you can see that. Is that kind of a reverse? So in the US more Muslims They are not Muslims.

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What, when the UK, 20.6%.

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So also, mostly my grants reported operationality scaling. That could start migrants in the US.

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Yeah, green, a job that is below your level of education and below the, yeah, QUEUE level.

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For instance, in Pesian Driver, or be a PhD, a PEG.

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With Uber or somebody while who has been a very good doctor in Nigeria. I bring something else like, doing a care walk.

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In the US or UK. Those are examples of which are just getting money to a job that is below your level of education.

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So I'm still on before the first question. So on health now. So not mostly migrants reported.

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Better, Done. Those. Well, Muslims, that are what Muslims think to or Muslimly reported, poorer helps.

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They are not Muslims. So. Mostly my grand did not differ from non Muslim migrants in terms of access to it case services.

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In other words, they have similar or equal access to Also, Muslim and ground did not be far. From non Muslim migrants in their experience of discrimination.

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So it's not that, one person is just granted a guest based on is our religion.

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So that, that was not the case in my in the positive aspects of my research. Also, there was no difference observed.

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Between mostly migrants. No Muslim. What a bill of email and also across the US and UK.

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No difference was observed. When it comes to. Discrimination in the, So now I'm moving to the second last question, friendlings from the second ask question.

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So here. Easy, positive aspects of the study. So one thing is that some white people in those countries are free of Muslim migrants.

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So this one of the Many Norwiches. No, that was given to me by the restaurant. And this one.

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Is from a Christian of Mitra, not a Muslim. So this person says that while people are falling scared of Muslims.

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When you see them, you know. Yeah, they show this. Sort of, you know, this, that don't do with them.

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But one thing that is clear Is that? You do not judge discriminate against them. They must have something.

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In them. I'm just passing mid reference to a job. Oh, I've been the bid, which is the, which is the sooner, you know, from the profit.

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So we should again this shows that. Is not It is what.it might grant shoes. I get theification or affinity with the glitch.

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So that I was the religion itself, not much for a migrant. It is whether you show it in your addressing your appearance or in the way you believe.

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So yeah, I do that being a Muslim is not enough to a top penalties. Well, so you need to dressing or behavior dose and I'll give us like one minutes to look at these 2 narratives from.

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From the US and UK.

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First one, which I see an intersection. Of risk or religion. The second You need to. I'm So still on the on the on my second argument that's been a Muslim is very not to a trappin artist so it is how you show it to people.

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To your dressing. To your BBO. I also give us another 1 min to retrieve this these quotes.

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So what I can see is that is a, So one of the participants in the UK actually told me that when she was coming to the UK, she many had stories of people who were denied, opportunities to jobs or who it has to stop, coming to work because of their age job.

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So when she was green, she used to wear the long ejac when she was in a junior.

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Or she was going to be UK. She had to, she didn't take them. She bought, you know, the shutter ones.

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So that she doesn't experience, the same thing that, talked about experienced in the UK.

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So for the for this personally in the US, you know. It is believed that you are in tech No, there's this idea of build smarts when you guys take.

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So the other one is that's great in jail. Doesn't make it looks much enough. So this reason is not even in tech, you know, job does not fit in.

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You know, with the Mitchell what's your dream. So that does the does in summary.

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Of this. Cool.

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So also the media also plays a role at the 9, one world one. So some part span essentially said, no, you can't blame the people in US country.

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Never one, you know. It's a big lesson. The very terrible, phenomenon.

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So. It still rings a bill in the in the minds of people in the country. So whenever they see a Muslim, you know, remember 9 1 one and it's it's middem display.

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Some anti Muslim, sentiment.

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I move to the next slide. So yeah, in some of my family. So at the objective level.

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No, just a little difference between Muslim migrants. Are not Muslim migrants in terms of employment and health.

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Hi, at the individual level and I'm seeing this because there's a particular concept. In migration studies.

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It's called relational integration. So that concept I use that we should not be, should not be too focused.

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On the objective equality or inequality between migrants. At National National People's Country, right?

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So we should be we should focus on relation net equality of racial inequality. And under additional inequality graphs, you ask some questions like do my graph themselves.

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That's not the case, then there's no problem. Even if the distribution is the reality, even if there's in a problem.

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Even new distribution is just a reality, even if there's inequality in reality. So far migrant themselves do not pursue in quality then we are fine.

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But if there is no, if there is, there is no equality, there's no discrimination and might grant themselves perceive inequality that there's a problem.

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So that's the arguments of, equality. So at the regional level, both Muslims are not Muslims.

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I see that mostly my grants might be discriminated against. And the argument is that if it might go to be discriminated against It's most likely to be a Muslim.

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Don't the arguments from the past but the competitive level you know there's only little difference that I found between Muslim migrants and Muslim immigrant.

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It could be because of my small subsidies of 2 56, you know, If you could be a limitation, but that's what I found.

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So also, probably display of Islamic identities, such as name, you know, name is one of the things that I, that I, was needed in my study, you know, somebody being up with a fart, somebody burying a Mohamed, somebody who's bearing, Mark or Michael, you

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know. They're likely to have at least a traditional level they are likely to have different experiences in the liberal markets according to my when I paid to work.

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So here is a conclusion and I have some questions here. Now, do you have to be a Muslim to experience the Muslim penalty or is the question that I asked earlier?

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So if you are not Muslim. And you have these Are you like to discriminate against? So, if yes, so can we say that the discrimination is the guest is Oh, I've been with with with Islam.

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Why does it? Why the situation which is allowed? So that's the question I've been, you know, going through my So another thing is Mostly and Japan is also in India.

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When you start in Nigeria. Jobs are located based on you know there is this concept of You want to show a people from different, social groups are represented So you have to possibly your Djon, you know, the call is balancing.

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We don't have to ask it to ensure that people are equally represented and also in some places. The considerate vision.

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For instance, I don't know if anybody's, We had a relation in February. So the vice president and the president were both Muslims.

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He created, you know, a lot of pivots. No, this is wrong. We cannot be Muslim Muslim or the Christian.

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So that's just the estimate to which optimizers are located. We're a, So the point is Nigeria is based in their home.

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Home country. Do you think they will see those challenges as a serious challenge in the, in, in, in the, host country.

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So they are admitted. That's okay. So that is very big deal because where they come from, they see something worse.

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Huh. So in Nigeria we've seen a case where somebody was through today because You click that the person, in, committed blasphemy.

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Or system too, it gives the profit. You know, so they are free something worse in the old country.

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So, do not be as admitted as this is the US and UK, but it's not really big deal.

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To them, you know, they get the rights and also good moderate or progressive Muslims. Muslim way.

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So good Muslims, moderate Muslims or progressive Muslims are those who do not follow the teachings of progressive Muslims are those who do not follow the teachings of the Prophet Akroni. They are Muslims, right? They are Muslims, right?

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They will not know the teachings of the Prophet Aguil. They are Muslims, right?

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They will not upset the But the identified with this club. They may not, you know, they are not to be a job.

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They can go to club, you know, You can see, go home, the opposite of the opposite, people of your supposed sex, you know, those are people who are good moderates progressive Muslim put Thank you very much for listening.

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Thank you so much. To him. And before I move on, I'm just going to check online and in the room I move on I'm just gonna check online and in the room we don't have any unannounced speakers.

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Just making sure. No one's joined online. One of us speak because hasn't come. Doesn't look like it.

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Okay, thank you so much Tunde. That was really interesting and I'm looking forward to us being able to chat with you more about that.

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I would now like to welcome Elena to do your presentation. Do you have any slides that you want to share?

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Yes, I will share my screen now.

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Okay, great. Yeah. Please go ahead.

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Okay. Do you see it?

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Yep, if you want to choose, yeah, the slideshow, yeah, go for it.

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Oh, wrong page.

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I'm sorry, just 1 s and. There we go. Do you see the slide? Okay, wonderful.

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Yes, yep.

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So. Thank you all for listening on this ungodly hour on a holiday. My name is Elena and I present the Chosen People in the Lucky Country.

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The research in my research was about the self-identities of Israeli Jewish expects and immigrants in Australia.

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And the research compares religious ethnic and national self identities of these 2 groups and how this, if at all, reflect it in our daily and cultural practices.

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However, this presentation is focusing on the religious aspect of the research. Just a bit of a background. I'm sure you're all very well aware of.

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As expected, religion often provides a sense of community and belonging for immigrants who may not feel who may feel isolated or disconnected in a new environment, places of worship such as churches, mosques or synagogues can serve as a gathering place where immigrants can find support.

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Build relationships and connect with people who share their cultural or religious backgrounds. Religion can play a significant part in preserving immigration's cultural identities and traditions.

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Because of those holidays and festivals and other events are organized religion often provides and background. In some cases, immigrants practice more religion in their new country and they are in their homeland because of the social advantages religious community provides.

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But what happens when immigrants have a version or criticism over religion or organized religion? Israel is often experienced that.

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That criticism on which I will elaborate a bit later. And that criticism affects the relationship with the Jewish community in their country of immigration.

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The study of Israelis in states shows that Israelis tend not to join the Jewish community. Until they immigration goal is permanent as in their obtain their final Green card or residency.

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That is permanent and they came to the decision to stay for good and only then they joined the Jewish community, start practice religion more and more often identify as Jewish versus Israeli.

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Until then, Israelis create their own blasphemy community. However, this phenomenon is not very common.

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I mean the part where they join the Jewish community completely. Most likely Israelis to experience and showcase a phenomenon called the meet of the return.

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Which is typically, typically refers to the idea or believe that individuals or groups can or should return to a cherished and idolized homeland.

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Or a past state of existence. It reflects desire for a resolution closure or a sense of completeness and therefore very common with voluntary migrants such as Israelis who can return home anytime but choose not to do to various personal reasons.

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I did it towards religion. Is a predictive tool to immigrants relations with the local religious and ethnic communities.

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For example, in Australia, in Jensen and King's Australian Jewish Community Survey, it shows that the majority of the Jewish immigrant population is hailed from the former Soviet Union with immigration waved peaked at 92 South Africa 94 to 2,004 and Israel started roughly 2,001 and with small

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peaks in 2,007 to 2,015 and I believe a peak is overdue.

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So, so South African Jewish immigrants are most likely to consider being Jewish, central or significant to their life.

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They joined the Jewish Australian community in Synagogues and report having higher and stronger stents of belonging to Australia.

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Israelis and Jewish immigrants from FSU consider Judaism to be less important, their tom take active part in the Australian Jewish community and report lower sense of belonging to Australia.

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So all that proves that again that religion and religious communities are important tools in immigrants assimilation process.

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Of course, tuition Israelis as well. Yeah, the study was at research is an analysis of 22 interviews in depth interviews conducted with Israeli Jewish immigrants in Australia.

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Mostly South Australia but not just. And I am myself a Jewish Israeli immigrant in Australia. So I'm a part of the local community in France with many Israelis.

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Dasma research also includes my impressions and reflections from social events organized by the community and social networks of Israelis in Australia.

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No standing population naturally consists out of Israeli citizens. That's easy. Jewish by their own definition.

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I didn't check anybody's papers or DNA. And who have been residing in Australia after the year, 2,021.

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At 2,011 I'm sorry. It was important to me to choose individuals who immigrated or moved to Australia after experienced the same social and economic reality in Israel.

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And I chose the year 2,011 not randomly. And because in 2,011 in Israel in the middle of the Arab Spring Israel experienced its biggest social protest it was called, 2,011 it's very social justice protests or in Hebrew it's just the tense protest.

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Without going into too much details about it. It was the biggest social protest ever saw. Israel ever saw lasted over 3 months and involved hundreds of thousands of protesters from a variety of social economic and religious backgrounds.

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And the goal of the protest was Hi cost of living, especially housing and their slogan was people demand social justice.

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And the process was not politically associated with any political group. It sparked on Facebook from post-pronging people who strangle with high cost of living to place tense in one of the most expensive boulevard of Tel Aviv.

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Though the social process was highly contagious in all social economic circles of Israel, it was originated by young and educated middle-class Jewish Israelis.

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Of 3 months, the protest stopped. And it left a bitter taste in the mouth of an entire generation who felt unheard in spite of loud screaming.

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Protest achieved a lot in the social sense of highlighting and showcasing struggles of the middle class and the new generation of Israelis but ultimately failed to affect any improvement in cost of living.

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And pricing of housing in Israel.

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And now the last part, since the research compares immigration golf. And immigrants versus experts that part should be easy.

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And by Wikipedia and our daily lives, expects are people who reside temporarily. And immigrants permanently in a country that's not a homeland.

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Australia provides temporary visas such as work and And study visas and permanent residency to immigrants in skilled migration programs.

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However, it's not correct to say that there is a link between the visa. And a person's immigration goal.

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Sometimes people leave their homeland for good but weren't able to obtain permanent residence in Australia. So they start with student visa and gradually prolong it trying to obtain a permanent one.

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And vice versa. Some immigrants or expects came on a temporary visa with a temporary goal just for a study or just for work and as time goes by prolonger visas and become citizens.

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But still don't consider themselves to be immigrants. Show but expect. So in this research Emigrants are people who define themselves, immigrants regardless of their status.

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And expects are people who define themselves to be expects. Because they haven't decided yet if they're staying for good.

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So why are these people living? In my research, don't my only criteria was the year People left Israel.

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It's still due to his right to Australia's immigration laws. And my, my own, the interviews in my in my research are relatively young, mostly young families, some young couples, all highly educated professionals in various fields of work and study, or secular by their own definition.

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Why did they come to Australia? Well, immigrants came here. You did a social criticism of the states.

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A bit of the state of Israel. Be it political, religious, economical, or cultural. These immigrants disappointed in their state and don't see bright future to it.

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Some don't even consider it to have a future. They are disappointed in their state and the disappointment is linked to the protests of 2,011.

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Fall in which they started to consider immigration because they didn't believe anymore that they were able to change the country in any and legal and democratic means.

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That they come to started with various visas and some of them in my research are still working to obtain the permanent residency.

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Expects, however. Came for adventure and career. These are mostly young couples who received a job offer, relocation offer from company they're working.

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Or were accepted to advance study or research program with full scholarship. They come with the return date in mind to experience Australia and make the most of this opportunity.

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After a few years in Australia, the date of the return is postponed indefinitely. Permanent visas retained even citizenships, houses bought, Australian children joined their family and they still don't consider themselves to be immigrants but expect.

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They're just not sure when and or if they'll return home to Israel. Interestingly, both immigrants and experts criticize Israel in exactly the same way.

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And they speak about Israel, Israel is economic or political or social state in exactly same words. The difference is is that when immigrants criticize Israel they actually list the reasons for immigration.

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And when expects criticize Israel they list their reasons to prolong their stay in Australia.

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We can summarize that by saying that immigrants became disappointed in their state. And expect we can be solution leader state of Israel after leaving a few years in Australia and experiencing different lives.

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One of the criticism criticizing points they share is criticism of religionization. That's a hard one.

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Okay, and that's basically a phenomenon or a process in which religion is expanding from private sector of life to the public arena.

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It refers to increased visibility, influence and presence of religion in public spheres institution discourse advocating for specific policies or seeking to influence public opinion.

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Based on religious values and beliefs. So, social studies. Debate whether this phenomenon is prominent or even exists in Israel.

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However, it's perceived as a real threat to the democracy by Israelis in my research in Gen 17 community survey and pretty much in every Israeli media you can open.

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In my research this phenomenon is one of the reasons for immigrants to leave Israel but not not grounds to return as in point-blank when asked if this issue wasn't a problem anymore, would you return? They say no.

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Whereas expect would consider to return to Israel if that issue wasn't a problem anymore. Immigration goal also affects immigrants and expects relations with Judaism.

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Immigrants mostly consider Judaism to be a society and a culture, whereas expects most likely to see it and describe it as a religion.

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Immigrants are more likely than expect to identify as Jewish when asked about their religious identity. Versus expects who are more likely to say secular or nothing.

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Some of them will still stay Jewish, just not as many. But, but talk is cheap. So what do they actually practice in their lives?

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Both groups celebrate Jewish holidays in a social and secular manner and Jewish holidays is pretty much the only thing.

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Or the major thing they still observe. Religiously. But they do it in a very social and secular manner.

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As in when they have a group of friends who are close with and they get together and they'll celebrate.

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But if they don't have that group of friends. Or the friends are out of town or not making any additional efforts of traveling elsewhere or going to and to an Israeli funded organization that would make holidays in their city or do any of that.

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Just no effort unless it's done with her friends who don't feel close with.

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And however their attitude toward Christian holidays such as Christmas are different. Both groups don't celebrate Christmas, but immigrants are more open to the idea of entertaining Christian holidays at home if their children ask for it.

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Expects are not putting a Christmas tree at home no matter what. Even if their children ask for it.

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In spite of having different attitudes over Judaism by Israeli expects and immigrants, they share a criticism covered towards religionization, organized religion as we mentioned before, and that criticism affects their relations with the local Jewish.

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Community. Both expects and immigrants don't feel a part of the Jewish community at all. Never made any contact with the community, whether it's in social media or real life.

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And most of them never visited a Synagogue in Australia. A few, maybe 2, came to a sign a go once and never came to return.

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I think the quote was, feels a bit Protestant. Though I'm not sure what it means.

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I need to do today. Just guess reminds them of American movies.

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So why don't Israelis feel a connection with the Jewish community and why don't they see this connection?

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The answer to this lays in how to receive the Jewish community. Israelis in my research believe that Australian Jewish community is Zionist and religious.

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Since Israelis criticized organized religion in their homeland, they are not seeking it in Australia. Also, since they believe that Australian Jewish community and individuals are Zionist, they believe they're secretly resent Israelis for leaving Israel in the pursue of financial gain on expense of a less meaningful life in Australia.

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And also consider Australian and Jewish community to be quite successful financially and in depth to Israel. So it doesn't make sense to Israelis to be used to the Jewish community.

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Monetarily or any other way, they feel that they contributed enough in their years and the IDF and by paying taxes in Israel.

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Another reason is Israelis don't make contact with the Jewish community is that the way Israel approaches and the local Australian Jews.

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Israel asking Australian Jews to donate to this right state and social events are created where Israel is presented as both strong state, that surrounded by unfriendly countries, but at the same time a country that needs a monetary assistance.

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And this narrative doesn't sit well.

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With the Israelis. They feel proud to be Israelis and they don't want to be perceived as individuals or a country in any financial and or any kind of need and also they don't feel they should donate monetarily to Israel.

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Texas idea if they don't report. All these, whether they're correct or not, stand between Israeli and the Jewish communities, making Israelis not to contact the Jewish community and not feel part of it.

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In summary. Israelis perception and criticism of religionization and organized religion is the reason for immigrants to leave Israel for expect to prolong this day in Australia and the reason for both of them immigrants and expects to stay away from the Jewish community.

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That's it.

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Thank you.

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Thank you so much. Elena, that was so interesting. Okay. I'm gonna put out one last call.

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Third speaker Yemeni I can tell you're not in the room but just in case you happen to have turned up online under a different name.

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Okay, does it look like they are here? So what I will do now is I will open to questions from the people in the room but also online if you want to ask a question.

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You couldn't either raise your hand with the emoji if you like or and you can ask it.

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Verbally or if you prefer you can type your question into the chat. But I will start now by going to the room here.

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We do have microphone. So, if. Tunde and Yelena if you're both willing and able to take questions that would be great today. I hope you're still there. Yes, there you are.

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Okay, any questions from the audience? Yes.

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Hi. So I'm still formulating the question in my head, but I'll see how I go.

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Alright.

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So it seems like I found it really interesting that. What you were focusing on was about this idea of visibility and the performativity of being Muslim and how that was the thing that kind of people became fearful of is actually people performing their Muslim identity.

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So I was wondering then is the consequence of that? When that if people were to have more contact with Muslim people or people wearing hijabs or you know, people were to have more contact with Muslim people or people wearing hijabs or that are performing this identity.

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Then that would mean that there would be less discrimination and less fear. And it's just that it's all about this as long as people encounter and become familiar with.

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Muslim people in their workplace does this mean they become more accepting? Do you think that?

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And I think I'm still trying to think of. What I wanted to ask for Elena. I found it interesting that the way you just distinguish between disillusionment and disappointment.

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I really liked how you categorized those 2 different emotions of the people between expats and immigrants. So I was just wondering if for the people, like is there a transition between dissillusionment and disappointment?

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Did you ever find people that were kind of oscillating between these 2 things or we're kind of in a kind of dynamic trend between going from disappointment into deeper into total disillusionment.

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And you know what you may have affected that process, what made them become even more disillusioned even in Australia.

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Yeah, I think that's my questions. Thank you. All right. Do you want to go first?

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Yes, thank you very much for the question. I think I agree with the suggestion, you know.

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So the first thing is Practicing is no. Where are you up? Fine, this is not keeping your beards or no.

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I'm not, getting close to in person or opposite sex is directing to do. What's it such that do things attract penalties?

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I teach at the University of Las Vegas, there are many few students who come in, you know, with, a, a, job.

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But when you get to campus, they changes all of them to bring in Egypt. Simply because it gets rejected.

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My idea by the, fellow student. So in order to be asserted, you know, the jobs, they want to feel among.

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So I believe getting more contact, you know, having more Muslims in the one place. Usually, in the West where Muslims are not so many.

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Will help, you know. People to understand Islam better and to accept a bit more accepting. Of people who choose to the quote unquote bad Muslims.

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Who practice this? So now we do things that the that we should do and we'll practice the teachers of the profits.

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No, they actually do. I won't practice the teachers of the profits. No, they asked for me.

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They're actually doing the right thing, but. You know, put on a code, they don't see them as bad Muslim because they don't, they don't, you don't care about filling them up.

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They came up by calling the soon of the prophets and following the Jesus of the Koran.

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So I think I agree that having more contact with Muslims, you know, letting people know what this account stands for.

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And what's those practices of this love mean? Will lead to more, you know, we do the discrimination.

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I know I think I agree with that.

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Helena.

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Okay, hi. Well, thank you so much for the question. Well, the words disappointment or dissolution meant are not used in the infantry use because these were done in Hebrew.

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So it's more of my interpretation of the experience that they shared. And what I can say is that disappointment is something that they experienced in Israel.

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They felt bad, they tried to change things, they came to the conclusion that there is nothing they can do other than leave.

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For themselves, for their children, for the future, whatever. The solution meant is a process that people expect experienced in Australia.

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They lived here for a few years and then they discover well. Actually, people can be much more mellow.

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You don't have to work 12 HA day. A traffic doesn't have to be that bad and relations among people can be completely different.

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The internet will be slow but other stuff will be different and living here disillusioned them of a lot of their opinions about Israel because it's not like they didn't have criticism before and they did.

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They just felt that while it is what it is, it's probably like that everywhere you go and there's nothing you can do and that's life and that's the natural order of things.

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And then they discover, well, maybe things can be different. So that's how I described the solution and like.

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Something kind of broke in their picture of the world.

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Thank you. I can see Shahina online. You've got your hand up. Did you want to ask a question, you've got your hand up.

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Did you want to ask a question, Shahina?

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Yes, thank you for giving me flow. So Mike, is that a question like, my QRC to Elena.

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Thank you.

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I really enjoyed your presentation, Elena. And learned about that new, term expert.

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So my, curiosity is like, you, made some kind of differences between express and immigrants.

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I really like that. But I'm hoping you are not. Generalizing or, their experiences because, particularly one not, mentioning that they are homogeneous categories.

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So here my, inquiry or question or curiosity is to you that have you actually found any differences based on their different intersectionalities like gender, disability is like that.

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In in their experience.

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Well Me trying to have a diverse group of people is limited by Australian immigration laws. And you have to have a certain criteria to get visa to come to Australia and immigrate.

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And even the people who are immigrating from Israel are a certain type of people. That would be young, highly educated, well to do middle class.

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Different cultural background, ethnic background, gender, sure, but I didn't meet any people with disabilities or people who are I mean my variety of people is various in terms of cultural background before Israel, people integrated it to Israel from various areas.

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And therefore some ethnic variety because chooser from all over the world we look very differently. And but they were all educated middle class perceive themselves to be middle class.

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And professional young successful at their field of chosen profession at least today level were they able to integrate to. Australia from the country that's already They already were pretty, they lived a good life in Israel as well.

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It wasn't, I mean, we're voluntary immigrants. It's a different situation.

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So no, I didn't see any difference in their answers towards Judaism based on their profession or ethnic background.

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Okay.

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Couldn't, you've got your hand up. Did you want to add something?

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Yes, yes. These, It's addresses. This difference between micro and this part or Matt, Greit, they call them some different names.

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No, there was an argument. That's it's a way to differentiate between different kinds of migrants.

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I'm migrants with different nationalities. So in my pieces. There was an arguments that Africans green to the west.

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Will ordinarily be guide as migrants. But, from the West, from the US, from the UK to Canada coming to Africa, regardless of what they are coming to do.

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What is long term or short term? They will they are like to be regards to as part, so IS.

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So I think it's, it's the, if you look at what my currents, the weights being possibly this is I got a carries in negative connotation.

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So to escape that negative condition, that's why those coming from developed countries to Africa. Regard themselves as as part as portraits, but I'm quiet, it's quite interesting.

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That's Elena's work, you know, we are not mistaken. Focus on.

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Yes.

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Is really my grant team Australia that my current and within the same from different from the same maximality.

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Yes.

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You still have migrants and, that's quite interesting. I had impression that used to be people from different nationalities, you know.

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What is quite interesting to know that within the same group, from same country, could have migrants and you know, that's quite interesting.

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Welcome.

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Thank you so much, but what you said, your differentiation between immigrants and experts is external to the immigrants and expects it's external to the immigrants.

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It's how others perceive them. It's external to the immigrants. It's how others perceive them, the immigrants.

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My quick question was to immigrants, how do you perceive yourselves? And people who are not quite sure if they're gonna stay in Australia if they came here for a PhD and they're thinking well at the end maybe I'll do past talk but eventually I'm coming back.

332
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.000
Hmm.

333
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.000
They don't feel right calling themselves immigrants. It feels like Not correct. And. It doesn't say what they are to themselves correctly and they don't want to live to their surroundings.

334
00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:22.000
But maybe when they walk down the street, people presume they're immigrants, that's fine.

335
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:31.000
That's not something they're aware of or care about. And it's the same with people who left Israel for good.

336
00:52:31.000 --> 00:52:37.000
It's important to them to say to other people in Australia. I'm here to stay. I'm an immigrant.

337
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:42.000
I'm not gonna just finish my contract and go back.

338
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:43.000
Hmm.

339
00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:44.000
Any more questions?

340
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.000
So it's different between how we perceived and how we perceive ourselves.

341
00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:50.000
Oh, yeah.

342
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:57.000
Any more questions from the room? Yes, Olga. Thank you both for your very interesting presentations.

343
00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:08.000
I had some questions for Elena but I think we already will share morally the same idea so I think we already we share morally the same idea so I think you have already explained most of it.

344
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:20.000
I'm just wondering if you could add something more about the relationship both theoretical and in everyday life between these both groups.

345
00:53:20.000 --> 00:53:43.000
If I mean identifying oneself as expat is also a way of trying to get out from a category that would more likely be discriminated than how do they relate.

346
00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:54.000
Among them how do they particularly what is the regard that expect a half towards immigrants. That would be perhaps my only question for you.

347
00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:17.000
And for Tunde, I'm sorry if you did explain it but I really didn't get it precisely particularly in your quantitative analysis Were you controlling with other variables like Language, ethnicity, education.

348
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:33.000
And I'm particularly curious about ethnicity specifically in the US case. Since I suppose there might be important difference between being perceived as, for example, an Arab Muslim.

349
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:41.000
The words being perceived as somebody that might look more like an African-american, let's say.

350
00:54:41.000 --> 00:54:49.000
And of course, towards white Muslims, whatever it means. And just to, contribute a little more to the discussion.

351
00:54:49.000 --> 00:55:03.000
I wanted just to tell you that I was collaborating as a volunteer in a social

352
00:55:03.000 --> 00:55:15.000
Civil society organization in Mexico. And as a Spanish teacher. And one of the lessons I had to teach took place in a Moscow.

353
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:29.000
So of course going into the mosque, Well, I was wearing a hijab. Then I park like 2 blocks away from the from the mosque and I walk just 2 blocks no more than that.

354
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:53.000
And I was really shocked to see how different I was perceived. I mean it was like 5 blocks away from my house I've been walking those blocks Every day for years and just the fact of being wharringer he ever was like I was perceived in a totally different way.

355
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:59.000
So, well, this is just to share this experience because I think I get what you are talking about.

356
00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:07.000
Just because of this kind of particular markers identity markers. Thank you. Thank you. Oh good.

357
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:09.000
Elena, do you want to respond first and then we'll go to Tunde?

358
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:18.000
Yes, thank you. Well, if I understood you correctly, you are asking. How expects versus immigrants present themselves externally.

359
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:28.000
So they're not discriminated. I don't think based on what I saw an experience that expects are perceived any better than immigrants in those Australian society.

360
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:40.000
So people are not trying to at least not Israelis in my research trying to adopt an identity that's not correct just to avoid some kind of discrimination.

361
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:48.000
If there is one then it's they might be a little bit fearful when applying to jobs or scholarships.

362
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:57.000
And perceived as temporary residence. Because they think well maybe the employer won't hire somebody who's only here for 2 years.

363
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:09.000
So when they're actually residents or citizens, they might wanna indicate it in some way. In an interview as in I'm happy to be an Australian citizen.

364
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:14.000
If that comes up, but not more than that, they're not trying to be expect to be less discriminated.

365
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:23.000
It's not the thing I am counter with in my life or with Israeli immigrants. And in terms of how do we treat each other, immigrants versus.

366
00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:33.000
I expect all the people in my research are in social contacts with other Israelis and amongst ourselves our criticism towards Israel is pretty much the same.

367
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:43.000
And we do discuss a lot whether we are here to stay or not. So it's for me it's a weekly discussion with friends and I'm not not I know I'm not the only one we discuss it in length and we know that some of our opinions could change with time.

368
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:54.000
We saying stuff like, oh well you say you're an expert but it's been 10 years dude admit it you're an immigrant.

369
00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:04.000
And no, I'm not an immigrant. I'm not sure. I might come back and set. So we, it's a constant discussion amongst ourselves.

370
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:15.000
What we are and I even have a quote from an interview when somebody says well I call myself an expect but if I'm still here in 2 years Just call me an immigrant.

371
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:33.000
I'm done. It's mostly how we perceive our stay in Australia because we're not I mean we do we criticize Israel but we're not running from anything we can come back any second and we'll have a very nice life just a very different life.

372
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:42.000
It's not a war zone or a feminine or something of that. It's more of what kind of life do you wanna have?

373
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:54.000
It's a lifestyle thing. And it's an ideology thing if you encounter Judaism and Zionism as part of the reasons you stay or leave the country.

374
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:55.000
Did I answer the question?

375
00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:57.000
Thank you. Tounday, did you want to? Oh yeah, sorry, did that answer? Yes, yes, that was really a liking.

376
00:58:57.000 --> 00:58:59.000
Thank you.

377
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:03.000
Thank you. To Nancy, do you want to respond to Olga's questions and comments?

378
00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:20.000
Yes, yes, yes. Thank you very much. About controlling for other variables. In my kids, it's, I tried to do it, but it didn't work because One, Nigeria is not a predominantly world with young country.

379
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:34.000
It's a missed country, right? For instance, if it's where from L's say, a different country like let's say like Afghanistan or Somalia or other I don't know, Muslim countries.

380
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:41.000
It's good control for this city. When Nigeria was to stop. So in Nigeria, we are both Muslims are Christian, right?

381
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:47.000
And the northern parts of Nigeria. That's when you have almost 80% of Muslims.

382
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:54.000
But in the south it's almost, I'm not mistaken, 50 50. Right, so there's no Arab.

383
00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:01.000
Mostly or black or Muslim. We don't have that close casualties in India. Is that you are Muslim or Iranian Muslim.

384
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:08.000
And for this, to what we have in Joba or Dibu. So they also are predominantly Muslims.

385
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:14.000
I'm from the recent that I did recently. They don't they don't go to the west.

386
01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:24.000
They migrate within Africa and Middle East. Good is this the consider. Poor, similarity when, when they migrate.

387
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:41.000
So, with agenda. Of education. Migration details. What are the, temporary migrants, whether they have to probably visa or whatever they apply I wanted residents and also their level of education so fortunately I did not control for ethnicity.

388
01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:50.000
Because this category like, Arab Muslims, you know. We don't we don't have them and also for my serving I got only few Muslims for my for my Intelligence.

389
01:00:50.000 --> 01:01:06.000
I used, positive sampling technique to make sure that the Muslims were represented without gates, you know, in organized from the bottom, but they suddenly had no control by it's you know about We are Muslims.

390
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:10.000
Any more questions from the room?

391
01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:17.000
Well, I have some questions if I may. First question, this is just a pretty brief one to Elena.

392
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:29.000
I really enjoyed your presentation. Elena. I think I've never thought, you know, I know a number of Jewish Australians and the whole conversation I hear is about making Alia that Jewish Australians leave Australia to go to Israel.

393
01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:36.000
I've never heard about the experience of Jewish people coming to Australia and leaving Israel. So it was really interesting.

394
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:49.000
And this is probably a very obvious question but I just wanted to clarify it with you so in your sample there were no orthodox Jewish people who left Israel to come to Australia.

395
01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:52.000
No, why would they?

396
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:53.000
No. No. That's kind of the whole point. You're in the holy land.

397
01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:58.000
It seems like. Yeah, that's that's what I want to check so that yeah right right so it was Yeah.

398
01:01:58.000 --> 01:01:59.000
Yeah. Does that ever happen? I mean, your experience?

399
01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:12.000
Why would you leave? I mean, I mean some come in various programs for the soft note or and through the synagogues to volunteer for a few years in Australia with the local communities.

400
01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:14.000
But the goal is to bring Jews to Israel. Not the other way around.

401
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:27.000
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed your presentation and as was said earlier, I like this distinguished this distinction between disillusionment and disappointment.

402
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:39.000
I think that's very nice. And today I really enjoyed your presentation as well. I particularly connected with it because of the research that's been done in Australia and the way it's actually quite different to what you found.

403
01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:43.000
So this is more of a comment and only for would be useful background research for you for the literature review part of your PhD.

404
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:59.000
And which is in Australia, you mentioned how your research indicated that the Nigerian immigrants to the US and UK they didn't seem to really be any distinguish distinction really between the Christians and the Muslims in terms of discrimination.

405
01:02:59.000 --> 01:03:10.000
There was a bit, you know, around hijab and that kind of thing, but overall it seemed pretty similar.

406
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:27.000
That actually is the complete opposite of Australia. So there's been a couple of research studies that have been done in Australia that shows that Muslim migrants experience a whole, a whole, it's what was described as like a unique layer of discrimination simply because they're Muslim.

407
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:37.000
Even when migrants from the same country but who were not Muslim would apply for jobs, the being Muslim seemed to add an extra layer.

408
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:43.000
There were 2 really interesting studies that found this, even when everything else was accounted for, language ability, education, Muslim migrants seem to face a unique layer of discrimination in Australia.

409
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:56.000
So that could be just useful or interesting counterpoint to the research you found. And I'm obviously happy to email it to you if that's easier.

410
01:03:56.000 --> 01:03:57.000
Yeah.

411
01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:00.000
And the other Yeah, no go. Sorry, go on.

412
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:01.000
No, no, go on.

413
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:11.000
And the other thing I guess it was just as you were talking again when I was thinking about research that's been done in Australia that's sort of similar to yours but the opposite is you were talking about the way Nigerian Christians could sometimes be confused as Muslims.

414
01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:23.000
That they would, people would perceive them as Muslims, they would project Muslimness onto them and then they would treat them as such with all the discrimination that comes with that.

415
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:39.000
And the research that's been done in Australia which is kind of the inverse of that is white converts and what happens if they do or don't then adopt like white converts to Islam and what happens when they do or don't decide to adopt the outward affectations of being Muslim.

416
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:49.000
So if a white woman becomes Muslim but doesn't wear a hijab or does wear the hijab, what that experience is like, or white men in particular, a lot of white convert men have talked about.

417
01:04:49.000 --> 01:04:57.000
How easy it is for them to pass as non-Muslim. Because even if they grow a beard, a lot of Australian men have a beard, it's quite hipster, it's quite cool.

418
01:04:57.000 --> 01:05:11.000
No one knows that they are Muslim and so what their experience is like and what people will say to them about Muslims not knowing they're Muslim is a really interesting, I guess kind of the inverse of what you found.

419
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:12.000
Again, I'm happy to send you that research if that's useful.

420
01:05:12.000 --> 01:05:20.000
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much. And before I went to the field, I thought that 2 variables were very important to me.

421
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:27.000
And I took that, we're going to make it all. Like, I'm going to predict a migrant situation on integration.

422
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:40.000
One was religion. The second one was ethnic name. Name, I was talking about those would be a ethnic or religious names will be discriminated against Compared to those who have English names.

423
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:59.000
So, to put these traits, it could be my sample size. I did very little bit small up to 56 and secondly the finding that there was no difference what I actually at the positive level at the positive level, you know, both Muslims are not mostly naturally shared.

424
01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:00.000
Hmm.

425
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:03.000
Yeah, it's ways of discrimination against Muslims. Right. And in that says, you know, actually a PNS counts.

426
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:08.000
I'm a Muslim for instance, the Muslim, but my name is Tunli. I'm not writing my Muslim name.

427
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:12.000
So when I go out, people don't know a Muslim.

428
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:20.000
So I need to tell you that it Muslim before you know that Muslim. So at the level of positive qualitative analysis, it actually showed that no.

429
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:27.000
Muslims are created against what's positively, you know, I didn't find, much different and also the same thing.

430
01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:33.000
Those who have Muslims in name, Muslim names, those who have English names, those who have, ethnic names.

431
01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:38.000
At competitive level, you know, there seems to be no difference. But competitive levels, I found something interesting.

432
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:48.000
People said and you know people share their experience. Yeah, I people watching their names. They believe that they are Muslim name or the Tasmanian names wouldn't get them a job.

433
01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:54.000
So the change our name. So. Luckily for them after changing their names, they were put for interview.

434
01:06:54.000 --> 01:07:06.000
Well, we didn't get a job. For instance, somebody bearing, So that person was cause for interview.

435
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:11.000
The British who were surprised you were expected to see a white person.

436
01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:18.000
The person you know, person said like 3 times after he changed his name he was called for an interview but he didn't get the job.

437
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:27.000
So changing of name or changing of. What ever, you know, to look like the people of US country might get you put for each of you.

438
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:28.000
Right. Right. And I guess.

439
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:31.000
But doesn't actually get in the job. So that's just some interesting.

440
01:07:31.000 --> 01:07:46.000
Absolutely, and I guess what that sort of then introduces is this this complex interplay between Islamophobia but racism and of course I know the argument that Islamophobia is a type of racism but then there's that extra layer as well like you said well they changed their name so then they thought they were white but then

441
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:54.000
when they realized they weren't white then racism came into play and whether that intersects with being Muslim or not, you know, it's a very messy not.

442
01:07:54.000 --> 01:08:01.000
Yeah, it's very complex, you know, kind of in-personality. And one of my participant, a female, you know, black Muslim.

443
01:08:01.000 --> 01:08:10.000
Rainy job. Especially not sure. But it's starting to have a PhD one of the best investing in the world in UK.

444
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:14.000
But it's that she's not sure why she's been treated that way. She's not shorter because it's because she's black.

445
01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:18.000
Or because she's a Muslim or because she's very in job. No, no, I'm not sure.

446
01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:22.000
It just comes. You know, I think it's because of this, you know, that should have complex.

447
01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:24.000
Yep. Yeah.

448
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:27.000
Those factors, you know, intoplay to determine what you experience in your country.

449
01:08:27.000 --> 01:08:32.000
Hmm. Yeah, and that she's a woman as well. Yeah, yeah.

450
01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:42.000
Woman yes woman Muslim black away in India you know about the first meal from Nigeria who is in a PhD in that department

451
01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:43.000
The first period, the first black, the first Nigerian.

452
01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:48.000
Bob, did you, were you gonna ask a question? Sorry, I wasn't sure if you came up to ask a question.

453
01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:53.000
No, no, OK. Any more questions from the room? Any more questions? Oh yeah, please.

454
01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:54.000
Yeah. Okay, please.

455
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:55.000
Yeah.

456
01:08:55.000 --> 01:09:03.000
I have one for a, if I may. Thank you. I have to actually. One, I wonder if you compared your results with other immigration groups that might require a head scarf.

457
01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:16.000
Whether it's Jewish or Hindu, I'm not sure if there's another religion you can compare results to and see if maybe it's just not maybe if what is

458
01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:22.000
I mean, like we just said, it could be Islamophobia, it could be racism, it could be xenophobic.

459
01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:30.000
Just looking different and being foreigner and it could be some kind of fear of religion of people who present a religion.

460
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:40.000
So I was wondering if you can compare hijab with other head scarves that are also religious.

461
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:41.000
Yeah.

462
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:43.000
No, I didn't do the computer. No. Look, I'm just, just, just groups.

463
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:58.000
Islam, Christianity and those who No, neither. And, as for at the level of qualities, we are talking we know.

464
01:09:58.000 --> 01:09:59.000
Okay, and one

465
01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:11.000
Do you? I'm not why I have my results and I have my data. Is no matter my PhD but I might displace in the future you know for public purposes.

466
01:10:11.000 --> 01:10:12.000
No, just online.

467
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:17.000
Thank you. And I also wonder in what language did you do your interviews online and in person? And if you think results would be And what language was that?

468
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:18.000
English. Okay, cause I just wonder.

469
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:24.000
English. But there's something we call pigeon English in India. You know, some of them were speaking begin English.

470
01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:31.000
Where you know just like We had necessary. There was a platform that in our view, the best art was at work.

471
01:10:31.000 --> 01:10:38.000
So the person didn't want the American person to understand what he was saying. So you spoke your body points.

472
01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:46.000
But the person was talking about, yeah, is the space of discrimination in the US. I didn't want to, the other person to, to, to have the knowledge of what he was saying.

473
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:53.000
So he's spoken about about 2 min. For continue English language. So basically, mostly English.

474
01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:59.000
Yeah, it's just, I don't know what it means, but I'm sure it means something.

475
01:10:59.000 --> 01:11:04.000
How people, maybe some, I don't know if people speak in their native language the same way they would.

476
01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:14.000
In English which is international and understood like you said everybody around you can understand what you're saying it's just interesting.

477
01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:28.000
Yeah, okay, okay. Well, I'm not sure that, actually affected what they said or the results, but what I found is that My grand speak, Niger Michael, specifically.

478
01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:35.000
I probably speak different languages. So there's multiple aspect of my research, work, which is the first question.

479
01:11:35.000 --> 01:11:45.000
I'm interested in identification. What are you identified with in Nigeria, that Nigerian culture or with the culture of US country, which is the.

480
01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:56.000
And if you've done, it's fine with Negro, So what I found was that many participants, you know, describe as much That it's fine with boot.

481
01:11:56.000 --> 01:12:00.000
Well, you start with the artwork. They have this, they know how to form this British accent.

482
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:05.000
I make an accent. I mean, they look like people of US country. At the moment there to make them accepted.

483
01:12:05.000 --> 01:12:16.000
But when they leave work, when they get to the Negro community, they are looking at dialects and, even, what we call pigeon English in Nigeria is English but not the, not the.

484
01:12:16.000 --> 01:12:17.000
Proper Pasha, no, does it make sure? The language of the

485
01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:31.000
I'm not sure it should have effect on a discussion about Thank you. It's interesting. Thank you.

486
01:12:31.000 --> 01:12:43.000
Well, I think if there are no more questions, we might give both of our speakers another big thank you for their really interesting presentations.

487
01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:46.000
I greatly enjoyed both of them. Thank you. Tounday, thanks for joining us from the past.

488
01:12:46.000 --> 01:12:49.000
Thank you so much.

489
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:50.000
Thanks.

490
01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:51.000
Elena. Thank you for joining us from the present.

491
01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:54.000
Yeah, it's It's not money in Nigeria.

492
01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:55.000
Hey.

493
01:12:55.000 --> 01:12:57.000
Hi. Thank you both. Thank you both so much for joining us. It was it was wonderful.

494
01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:00.000
Thank you.

495
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:01.000
Thank you again.