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Okay, let's begin the the time sticked over to 1030. The official starting point. Thanks. Thanks for coming along for this session. My name is Brad West. I'm the outgoing co-president of the

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Research Committee for Sociological theory. Our C. 16. I'll just give a quick plug for those who are members, or those who'd like to be members or more involved in the research Committee at 5 30. Please come along to this room for our business meeting, and there will be social drinks afterwards as well, and a great to have you participating. I'm stepping in here as chair for Marcus Morgan and his colleagues

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Marcus, a board member of our C. 16, at the University of Bristol.

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And, unfortunately for family reasons he couldn't make it to the World Congress. But the idea of this session was in just talking with him, that there's been a a new empirical interest in

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elites. And but there was a sense that sociological theory hasn't kept up with it.

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and leads have been central to, you know, sociological theory. but you know, as you'll hear today, you know, there's new developments in theory, both in a discursive way. But also, you know, in in so diversity and influence, and it's a really exciting session. like no nice synergies between the papers, but also they're distinctive in in various ways.

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we started off with Roger Burrows, and I'll just ask each speaker to for a matter of time introduce briefly introduce themselves at the beginning of the presentations and and just be careful with your wandering, because we need to speaking to the microphone for those who are engaging on Zoom. So. Roger Burrows to begin.

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okay, can you hear me? Okay. So Roger Burrows, I'm a chair in global inequalities at the University of Bristol. But I'm lucky enough to live in Melbourne for half the year. So I'm local. So I'm going to talk about the new class realities of frontier capitalism, theorizing elites in the asset economy.

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And essentially, what I'm going to try and do is mash up 3 Different sources, one of them empirical and 2 of them really theoretical. I guess I'm going to begin with the Asset Economy Book, by Lisa Atkins, Melinda Cooper, and Martin Connings, which I think has already become a contemporary, sociological, classic.

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A very thin book. You can probably read it in an afternoon, but it's full of really really interesting and provocative insights. And and Lisa was talking about that in one of the pleneries. yesterday I'm going to kind of mash that up with Another book in the same sort of genre. Brett, Christopher's work, Brett's an economic geographer, and he's published 2 books recently, Rontier capitalism.

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who owns the economy and who pays for it, and the most recent book, Our Lives in their portfolios. Why asset managers own the world, and I want to have a kind of a a discussion about those 2 texts in order to bear down on some empirical work that we've been doing in in recent years. We've spent as part of the last decade studying the super rich in London.

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and there's a whole series of multi-authored papers that have come out from that from that project. And now 2 books. 2 of my colleagues have taken aspects of the project and written them up as kind of quite popular texts, and I'm going to talk about Caroline Knowles's recent Book, the brilliant, serious money

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walking plutocratic at London, and also my colleague, Roland Atkinson, latterly of the University of Tasmania, now at Sheffield, and his more kind of geographical. Take on her work

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in Alpha Alpha City.

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So I want to take the Asset Economy book. I want to. see what Brett Christopher has to say about it from his perspective, and then think about how some of those ideas might apply to the analysis of elites in our empirical work in in London

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in 15Â min.

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So the context of all of us, of course, is is a pity thesis that that so many people will be Familiar with the contention that in in the last few decades

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you know what we normally characterise as as neoliberalism has, in fact, been a shift away from a situation that pertained for much of the twentieth century back to a situation that pertained before the First World War, where rates of return on capital. turned out to be much greater than rates of return on economic growth, or rates of return on wages and salaries.

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So this sort of turn to the asset economy that, in a sense, Lisa and her colleagues articulate.

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makes the point that Picketty's analysis really focuses on elites and the wealthy. And of course that's been very important to do. But the asset economy book makes a very, very strong case, and it's not just elites. Actually, the distribution of of assets down the class structure means that this is something that has a much wider sociological significance.

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So the Atkins at our book makes the point that it's not only the wealthy that we should be focusing on, and as we'll see, Brett Christopher makes the point that it's not just houses that we should be looking at which are perhaps foregrounded. To a greater extent than perhaps, is the case, should be the case within within the asset economy. book!

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These diagrams might be familiar to you from Picket and his his colleagues.

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Essentially, this is the key, the key graph showing on their calculations a big data exercise which goes back to antiquity antiquity, and tries to project forward to the end of this century, and and it looks at estimates of rates of return on what they call capital, on assets compared to rates of return on, on economic economic growth.

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I. Rates of return on wages and salaries, rates for turn in terms of the growth of salaries from work. And the the key point, I suppose, is that the twentieth century turns out to be something of an historical blip.

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And yet, of course, most of our understanding of social systems derives from the theoretical construct, from the twentieth twentieth century and 79 Onwards! What we sometimes characterize as the turn to neoliberalism has seen a a shift back

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to a rate of return on capsule becoming much greater than rates of return on wages and salaries, with The consequence that this is a famous elephant graph that that actually, when we look at it, increases in income across the globe. Incomes have gone up for everybody. They've gone up for those in the bottom 50% of the global population.

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often the doubled in in the period from about 1986 to the to to the to the present day, but for the for the what sometimes called the squeezed bottom. 90% of those in the Us. And Western Europe. Although incomes have increased, they haven't increased at such a rate except for those at the top of the

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class distribution for the top 1%, but especially for the top 0 point 0 1%, and especially for the top 0 point 1%. That's why we have a situation where we have 26 identifiable billionaires owning as much wealth as the bottom 50% of people on the planet.

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So we're talking about elite, we're talking about the acetization of the economy. And we're going to focus on Lisa Atkins a book. The books about many, many things, but I want to focus on their analysis of of social, of social class within the book. And for me it's a nice mash up, really of

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a kind of a quasi-marxist tradition, perhaps, like something out of Erikol and writes classes and a book that has been rehabilitated recently. The the British sociologist, Mike Savage

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makes the case that Peter Saunders, who worked in Australia for a while, and I'm talking here about the right wing. Peter Saunders, rather than the left wing Peter Saunders wrote a book in the 1,900 and Ninetys called The Nation of Homeowners, which Lisa was a research assistant on, as was Mike Savage, and essentially what the asset Economy Book tries to do is to entangle

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what we sometimes think of as housing classes and ownership of property with positions within the social relations of production. They do that in a very elegant and suggestive way which has been incredibly important and influential.

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But

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Brett Christopher's in his Frontier capitalism book, and in a number of other papers, makes this, I think, quite important. He says that Atkins Atal, although their analysis is, is important and critical. actually underplay the fact that most assets, of course, aren't owned by individuals and households.

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They're owned by corporations and big businesses.

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And actually, when one moves away from pension funds and financial assets and houses.

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I mean, many of those are owned by corporations, as you know, if you look around at Melbourne, and you see the new skyrise high rise! student accommodation! They are owned by businesses and corporations when you move beyond those limited number of assets. It's corporations that are key in terms of asset ownership. It's obvious.

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But this leads Brett Kristopher to suggest that that perhaps Atkins in the tale. tell underplay the role of employment.

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because, although employment is important for them, asset ownership tends to get foregrounded.

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and his argument is that even now the social relations of production, the nature of employment is changing.

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and people employed close to the frontier function, as he would say, in terms of the management of assets to the people who were earning huge salaries. So his argument is

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good analysis. But actually, what we need to do also is to look at the changes of employment relations and actually look at how we can conceptualize class inequality in relation to assets held not just by individuals outside the sphere of work, but rather by the companies for whom they work.

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So in in A very useful diagram. And I'm sorry I'm rushing through this. Christopher's articulates examples of 7 different kind of runtier functions within the economy we know about property assets we know about financial assets, but he also points to intellectual property assets, natural resources, platform assets, long-term service contracts and infrastructure.

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and in his books he details how the ownership of those material Assets! Have become an increasingly important source of income streams

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for corporations

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in his recent book. Your lives in their portfolios! He takes the the county of Kent in the Uk. And articulates and maps out how most of the infrastructure in Kent is now owned by private frontier capital.

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The health service, social services, broadband Internet, the sewers.

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Many of the educational systems are owned by private private private businesses.

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So his his point in a in a great paper in historical materialism. In 2021 class assets and work in In Montier, capitalism tries to reassert a rather more traditional sense of class assets are important, but actually working within runtier contexts that generate assets are as important, if not more important, than ownership of assets at a household household level.

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So his analysis of assets, where he draws upon the work of a number of people, including the late and great David Graver, and especially his. But bullshit jobs

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points towards the the economy in the Uk. perhaps in Australia, certainly in America, is becoming a frontier economy.

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where the creation of assets through contract making the performing of asset value through accountancy, protecting of assets by intellectual property lawyers, the maximizing of asset rents by political lobbyists leads to a situation where the rest of us are just sweating assets.

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Essentially, people who work close to those frontier functions are the people who are being rewarded on a colossal scale.

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This is why The conundrum that David Graver presents! Why are there so many accountants, and why are there so many lawyers now? Is answered by Brett Christopher's. These are the people within employment structures

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who are earning within the workplace huge incomes because of their role within the new frontier economy.

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What's this got to do with the analysis of London elites. Well, what we're trying to do, and I know only 2 or 3Â min now. So I'm running out of time we've been trying to use that conceptual framework, if you like to think about what Lisa's analysis Lisa and his colleagues and and her colleagues analysis

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with this kind of addendum that I bet Christopher's might look like in relation to try and map out, mapping out the top naught. 1% that we've been looking at, who have been busy. Buying up and destroying large parts of of London. We know where they live, as you can see from that very detailed diagram, and we also know what they do.

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And in Alpha City Rowland maps out the sorts of areas of London where different types of of wealthy elites live

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won't go through it haven't got time, but he calls them the patrician Heartlands, ultraland prime London, the waterfront, Alpha hood, and suburban exclaves, different kinds of runtiers, different kinds of elites, different kinds of of money spatialized across the city. So we know where they live.

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and we know from Caroline's brilliant book just out in paper back in Penguin. We also know what they do.

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She has been fantastic in tracking down these people and their representatives across London, and the book has a cast of characters who she talks to, and what we're doing is trying to map out their kind of functioning in relation to that, that that framework.

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So just a couple of observations. we need to generate a kind of a new socio-spatial mapping

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and a couple of points comes out of Lisa's analysis that, I think, is really quite useful. We need to focus on the household

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in the book. They develop the notion of the Minsky and household, and the importance in terms of new systems of social reproduction, of the manner in which households manage almost like in a business. Like way flows of income and debt.

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and those elites have to manage this at such a level. They even have their own family offices.

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families managed by people who are very well paid to manage their investments, to manage their payments, and to manage the day to day. plutocratic dynasties! So that's one thing we need to know. Second, we clearly need to map out household assets

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and not just

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homes, not just pensions, but also the involvement of people within these other kinds of investments. But coming back to Brett Christopher's, we also need to look at the employment locations of people mapped not any longer to Erikol and write type cat categories in relation to kind of control or skill levels, or whatever else we want to look at. But now, in relation to the closeness to runtier functions.

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What kind of jobs are being rewarded in terms of the value extraction within the frontier economy? So it's going to be perfect timing. So

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the other thing, I would say, and this is the last point

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is that the other element, I think in terms of this theorization is also a spatial one. You know we know where they live on the map.

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but I think the kinds of assets that these elites invest in, especially in terms of their accommodation, also has a volumetric aspect to it. Many of the people that we're talking about are investing in architectural forms which are inherently secessionary.

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They're investing in assets which allow them to exit from the everyday life of the cities within which they they live. And my colleague at will, Davis puts it like this.

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it's as if the super-rich elites cannot bear to be on the same ground as the rest of us.

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if they're not on their pent houses for top. The luxified skies looking down. They're even higher up still in their private jets, their helicopters, or now, even in their own spaceships.

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or else they're far out at sea beyond most jurisdictions in their super yachts, on their private islands, or now their very own sea steads, or of course they're going underground, living in deep subterranean spaces. Iceberg houses, we call them in the Uk, but still not in the same plane as the rest of us. It's not just about asset investment per se in house households. It's also about secessionary aspects of that investment. Thank you very much.

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So Hi, everyone. My name is Adam Dinson. I'm a Phd. Student based at the University of York back in the Uk.

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And I'm going to be presenting some early findings and some theoretical reflections on material generated by my thesis research. And the first time I'm presenting my thesis research in public so really interested any feedback that you have

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and the title of the of the presentation. It's slightly contracted from the one that's in the program constructing the elite in England's red wall.

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And the the study is.

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and it's a relatively small end study. It's a qualitative study that speaks to people living in the north of England, the part that's referred to as the Red Wall, the so-called red wall. As scholars are kind of duty bound to refer to it as about who they feel the elites are, and it kind of takes its founding assumption and of the the guiding principle for the project is that you know it. It matters. It matters for politics who

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public to understand to be a leader who public understand the whole power in the societies in which they live.

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And so the presentations in 3 parts I will whiz through a little bit, because I think I do have more than 15Â min of material in the deck.

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and but I'll start off with a bit of background, a bit of reason to care about. why, the way that people talk and think about elite matters, and then I will very quickly share some of the empirical element of the of the project and some of the early results, and in the main part of the presentation I'm going to offer 3 attempt to theoretically accounting for the findings that we've generated so far.

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So the main proposition is, as I've said, so left and right-wing people from the interviews that we've conducted seem to conceive elites quite differently. And this seems to be significant for the world views that they go into Gen.

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And to generate.

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and the the 3 theoretical reflections on that finding which you kind of take as kind of meta-finding for the project

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is that the constructions of elites that we're hearing from our left and right-wing participants differ in 3 ways. So the first way is a differential use of empty and full signifiers with the way they construct elite.

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The second is the use of different heuristics for thinking about elites, which we refer to here as monism and pluralism.

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and I will go on to explain these these terms a little as I go on, and then the fed relates to the wider representations of social space that our participants are describing, and and the way that elites sit within those.

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So why should we care about discourses, about elite? Why should we care about lay understandings of elites, and we'll face a very theoretical justification. So this diagram is

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based on the post-structuralist discourse the area of Ernesto, Laklau and chantal moof

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and and basically represents how any attempt at hegemony, any attempt to build a political project that wins public support

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and depends on the construction of a people and of an elite stated in simple terms. It's it's just to say that any political project needs to define who its members are, who its adherents are, and then who they oppose, which is the function that the elite plays.

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And and this quote from Stuart Hall, who was kind of a fellow traveller of the clown, move

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and makes clear that it's not enough for someone trying to build a hegemonic project to just magic a definition of elites out of the ether. It has to be based on kind of the pre-existing ideas about elites that are nascent within whatever policy it is that they're operating in. And so yeah, that kind of sums up the

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the ethos of the project.

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And the second reason is that we, over the last few decades we have come to talk about elites more than any other social strat and by some metrics. So this data is taken from Google books

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and shows that although the the term elite wasn't pluralized before about 1,960, and once it was paralyzed. Once we started thinking about elites in this individualistic way, and it has become the hegemonic time for referring to powerful people. So it's overtaken Thames, like the aristocracy of the bourgeoisie or the upper class in the last few years, as well as being crucial to any kind of hegemonic project. We're living through a time where elites are talked about much more than they have been at any other time.

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and then the the third one. And this reason kind of echoes some of the pathologies of late modernity that Sari was talking about in his opening address on Sunday evening is that over a very similar time period to this rise in discourses about elites, we have seen this, this rise in Populism generally, and particularly a rise in right-wing Populism.

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and which is perhaps to be expected, and that Populism is a particularly acute form of hegemonic project, where it's not just that the people and elit are constructed, but also quite a fierce antagonism between them. So as we're talking and thinking about it leads more. We have seen this

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and this growth in Populism, and this right with T and Populism as well. And I I I don't really go into it in this presentation, but I kind of want to argue that. There has been an individualizing 10 in the way that we speak about elites as well, which is more at home on the political right, and without making any strong causative claims that this has something to do with. Why, we're seeing more right wing populism than we have at other times in history.

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And and one last reason to

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take an interest in this as a research topic is that it is, it is quite recognized that of the 2 key categories within. Populism studies the elite has been und theorized relative to the people.

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So there's the background. And given that this is a theory panel. I'm going to be really quick and give an abridged overview of the empirical part of the project. So the field work looks, and it speaks to people about the views they hold about elites in the north of England, as I've said.

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and these This takes place in the red wall in the north of England. So these are. It takes its name from the fact that it's this is a historically labor supporting so historically left-leaning part of the Uk.

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Which has exhibited a rightward drift over the last couple of decades, which reached a bit of an apotheosis in the above average levels of support for Brexit, which is normally taken to be a right-wing Populist project

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in 2,060.

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And so it was chosen. It's partly that I'm based at York. And so the red wall is kind of all around us. And so it's geographically convenient. But there's also given that we're interested in views of elites and their political ontological implications.

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and this was chosen as the geographic setting because of this kind of right-w drift, and this and this high salience of elites in these apparently populous discourses.

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so we speak to people for about 60Â min, and participants are stratified by party membership, and the findings have revealed some interesting splits in the way that left and right-wing people seem to describe elites in the societies that they live in.

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And so it's going to give an an impression of kind of the meta-fining that we've had so far. And basically we notice a lot more cohesion and more consistency in the way that left-wing participants describe elites, and a way to represent that just quickly

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is to just show the results of the image tasks with which we begin our interviews. So we ask participants to bring along an image that allows them. They can speak to, which allows them to give their impression of of what an elite is, and for our conservative and liberal respondents. And this is a selection of some of the images that we've had. So the England World Cup winning team from 1,966. One participant brought a selfie along and then made a persuasive case that they considered themselves in elites.

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A poignant image depicts, like allied forces fighting in the Second World War, an image of block mess which the participant went on to explain, is meant to denote a land ownership. And then this tops and tofts image which shows up there and working class children from the 1930 s. So this is kind of just to represent that for a right leaning or center, right leaning participants. there's a range of valences and a real range of themes, and quite little consistency in the the responses that we get

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from that part of the sample, whereas for our left, leaning to our Labour Party and Green party members that we've been speaking to.

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The first thing to say is that we keep getting this Bulllington Club image to keep coming up. So this is an image of the Bulllington Club, which is the Student Society at Oxford University that included future Prime Ministers, Boris Johnson and David Cameron, who who were famous for kind of like trashing restaurants, and then just using their generation or wealth to just pay for the the property damage afterwards.

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and and the other images that we've got. So there's a very similar image of contemporary eaten students who are maybe, like the they probably said to be the contemporary equivalent of the buying club, but all of the other images either evoke economic power, political power, hereditary power, or some intersection, or a combination of of

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of those 3 themes, and so kind of taking comparatively

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this. What we've been calling our meta-finding is that there is this cohesion differential between the responses that we've been getting from our left and right-wing participants.

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And and so, yeah, in the minutes that I've got left, I'm just going to share 3 possible theoretical explanations for this. So the first is the use for empty and and full signifier. So I've I've mentioned the flowers. Theory of hegemony is kind of core to the project.

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and the idea of an empty signifier is key to the Klaus. theory of Populism and theory of begemony. It's a very slippery concept. It's a puzzling concept, it Mccarthy and scholars quite often will write kind of anguished articles like this, where they wrestle with what the clar actually meant by an empty signifier. And but basically in the in the article that I've just put up as Zip and the Barras identifies these 5 different ways. An empty signifier is used.

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and says that we should expect

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elites to be represented by empty signifiers in hegemonic projects in ways that match these 3 definitions. So a negative symbol that names and antagonistic, or that a symbol whose content is problematically poor. So there's kind of like left intentionally vague. So it can mean the same thing to different people, and a simple pointing to an open identity. And and I would argue that While these all, while these all match the responses that we've been given

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from our, you know, the more vague kind of less consistent, responsive from our right wing participants that for our left wing participants. They actually elite as a tam seems to be playing quite a strict and quite specific signifying role. So I would actually problematize whether or not elite is an empty signifier in left wing or Germany and left wing identities.

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And since I'm going to go 5Â min I'm going to skip through a few slides. And

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the second way of thinking about this is the thing about monism and pluralism. So management pluralism. These are 2 ways of denoting whether or not, we think of a system as a unified whole, or as made up of a number of constituent parts. It it started off kind of the earliest debates about management. Pluralism emerged in analytical philosophy and metaphysics in the early twentieth century.

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and Jonathan Schaffer describes how the debate kind of took 2 forms. One is existence, monism and pluralism. So that was considering. Whether is there one thing like is the cosmos one thing? Or are there many things that make up the cosmos

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and or and then another way of debating this priority, monism, which is our holes or parts fundamental. And what I want to argue is that this cohesion differential in our in the findings that we have, I would say, suggests that our left-wing participants, they they very consistently go on to describe kind of a modest view of elites, where it's viewed as kind of a unified class that derives its its power and derives what makes it meaningful to call it an elite from its structural position in the social totality.

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or as our right-leaning participants, much more described. Like high achieving individuals. and kind of see, the elite is made up of, like the constituent agents that make it up.

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And again, I'm so. William James thinks this is awfully important, and I have these quotes from their time. In fact, they can kind of sum up like the political implications of thinking of society and monastic or pluralistic terms. And and yeah, our participants kind of go on to describe these really quite different world views. That kind of match up with the categories that are on screen here, according to whether or not they have this monistic or pluralistic view of of elite.

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and then the final, the final reason, so that those first 2 theoretical interpretations referred specifically to how elites themselves were constructed in the accounts that participants have given us. This third one is about how those elit is, and situated in wider ideas about social space by our participants.

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and it draws on work by Claude Lee, by Strauss, who? This diagram is taken from his 1,956 book Structural Anthropology, and it describes accounts given to him by members of the Winnebago Try, with whom he was staying at the time, and it's possibly I always suspected this is a little apocryphal, but

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Levi Strauss claims that when asked to physically represent the layout of the village that they lived in, and the 2 sub tribes, and who referred to as those from above and those from below, which represented the the kind of power differential between the 2 subtribes described the village in kind of mutually exclusive ways, and Levi Strauss kind of uses that as jumping off point to to

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events, an idea about hierarchical social space which is structured around a structurally privileged point and then diametrically, social space, which is which is flattering, doesn't have a structurally privileged privilege point.

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And

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and I think I'm coming to the end of my time. So I will skip through the the last couple of points here, and but I would say that we can maybe map the the cohesion differential I've been talking about between our left and right-wing participants suggests that our left-wing participants are seeing the elite, this monistic elite in specific terms, and occupying a structurally privileged point in a hierarchical kind of pyramidal social space.

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whereas our right-leaning participants are seeing, describing these pluralistic elites, taking up different parts of a a much flatter

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and less pyramidal kind of social topology.

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Yeah, so that that's the proposition that I've argued for, as I say, this is the first time that I've presented this research in a setting such as this will be really interested in any feedback that you have at the end. So thanks very much.

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Hey? Hello!

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My name is Hannah Marie Hosu, and this is my colleague, Marty Coyote, and we are both from University of at Aut university, and we are associate professors.

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and our presentation today

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deals with the

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energy elite.

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It's kind of nuclear power, energy, elite in Finland.

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and how they respond to these kind of outside crisis prices.

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And we use a neo-graphian approach.

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Sort of it's

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represent this kind of Marxist idea of

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of power.

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So We also have an empirical case. The venerable M. Case, Benjamin, was a Finnish company

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that was building a new nuclear power plant in Finland, the western coast of Finland.

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and later to one of the builders.

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The the was A.

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Ross atom, a nuclear Energy Company.

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but that generally is known for promoting Russian interest.

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your political interest. And that's where we focus on and

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our empirical case.

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 so we are interested in theoretical aspect of how elite

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people

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sort of response to our tight crisis

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or exotino socks is outside crisis or socks at these kind of turning points or sudden events.

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That's a that happen.

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Our outside processes

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and and events that make elite groups react and sort of like reformulate sort of the discursive strategies

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and and

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these kind of sudden events make, may provide this kind of window of opportunity to opponent

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oops. and they kind of

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can make this kind of

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power structures visible.

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and and so on.

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So we also, we are also interested in techno-scientific promises.

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That sort of

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elite groups need to make promises

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that legitimize produce insecurity, right action. And and so so the promise is also kind of

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sort of make. Things happen also in terms of material reality. They are not just this kind of disposive

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kind of construction, but something that elite folks

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use when they

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yeah.

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when they want to secure their interests.

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so

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okay.

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so

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 you're working.

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So as I say, this kind of neo-crumsy and up routes represent this kind of Marxist uproads.

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that sort of brings back the

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ideology, and in recent years, in energy, social science.

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a neo-ramsian approach has become more common.

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and it sort of deals with hegemony

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kind of things which I think it's very useful in terms of elites, sort of hegemony rivers to

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this kind of arrangement.

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favor.

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economic elite.

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and and they can sort of

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built

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the social world that they want

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in terms. And and it's also like the capacity to command common sense, like, for instance, in Finland, nuclear power has always been quite accepted form of energy.

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Finland has never had this kind of influential anti-nuclear movement like in Germany.

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So there is quite a

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strong acceptance of nuclear power in Finland. So this could be

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understood like, it's, it's like a

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sort of capacitive common common sense. How do you fear your nuclear power in society.

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and also, like

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a neo-cramsian, approach, perhaps attention to the fact that elite groups need to have resources.

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all kinds of different forms of sources, like material form of sources, institutional institutional form of power

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and all kinds of

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different. So it's not the based on on just one thing.

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But in any case, it's sort of.

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When you have power, you are able to control the dominant and dominate the public

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is custom.

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So I think, elite while

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in anything energy, sector in general is quite elite, centered innovative elite groups

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to have a lot of power. And also you could say that

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in society in general, those groups that control energy to have a lot of power in society

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overall.

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But we focus on energy sector now. So Finland is this kind of a corporatist country.

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and it means that in launch apps

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has sort of

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this kind of you

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elite actors, large companies that do have like quite easy access to the government decision making circles.

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So they are sort of able to set the rules that Covent decision making and practices. and that can be quite powerful in legislation.

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And generally, this papers really centralized and large-scale energy law solutions, and it can sort of exclude

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alternative beefs like energy democracy, genetic communities. More, this kind of

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citizen-based energy decisions decisions are often sort of exploded, and citizens group in Finland

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do not have this kind of same kind of easy access to the decision making circles

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than to elite actors.

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So I think

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one of the aspects of

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ideology, or

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this kind of neo-crumbia and upros of power is that you can name those groups that have power in society.

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So it sort of you can.

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You can.

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explore like.

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which groups have power. What do they do?

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Where do they come from? What they can achieve, and so on.

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So, in in a sense, I I

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think that a neo-graphian approach is kind of important in this sense. But Finland's nuclear power elite

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includes actors, successor.

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so state actors, political actors.

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and then

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Large companies, and also

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also labor or trade unions are also like big players.

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I don't follow the details of nuclear and it the elite

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Finland. later on.

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Check this slide. But we move on to our empirical case that it's

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depending on my case.

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I'm going to.

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Okay. Thank you so much, Hannah Marie. So

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here are the crises we have analyzed and which have kind of a shaped, the finish.

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energy policy, and especially nuclear energy policy. So first of all, the Fukushima 20 11, then Russia's occupation of Crimea.

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2,014, and then Russia's invasion of Ukraine last year in April.

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and this all

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crises are related to, or they affected the phenomenon of a nuclear power plant project. So The company started well before the folks in my accident, and they caught the political permit to construct a new power plant.

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But then

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After Fukushima

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and the chairman face out of of nuclear.

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So this German company they pulled out of this this project. and so that that was the the first

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crisis, and due to this, this pulled out so Fenovomatiniti to negotiate a new contract. And so they started to deal with with with with Russian Ross atom, which became a technology supplier and also investor.

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And because of these changes they needed to kind of re-apply the political permit.

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and that happened right after the Crimean occupation in 2,014,

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the second crisis. And then last year this whole whole project was terminated.

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and that was a

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related to to Russian invasion. So Very briefly, about the data.

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So we have gathered media items from Helsinki. That is kind of the leading political leading newspaper in Finland.

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and also some Parliament recommendation, and also some some other material from from those actors, and of course, discovers all this research period

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on the this street crisis.

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But this is just to highlight you that what we have done and what we will do. I mean, we have different elite groups like leading politicians, power companies, authorities, and so on. And then we, if we kind of open up one of these elite groups like leading politicians. So here you can see that Which actors we are interested in. And then we look

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At the time of of each crisis, how they have reacted.

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and what they have said about the future of of the project.

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And here's here's one example, so can his Prime ministers what they have said.

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So in 2,011, at the time of fucking accident, the kind of the

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message was that. they finished nuclear power plants. They have very advanced technology. There's a high safety standard.

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And so no, no kind of a problem.

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And then 2,014 after this Crimea crisis. So Finnish! Prime Minister, he stated that, of course foreign and security policy aspects should be taking into consideration.

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but still the cooperation with rus atom. It reduces dependency on Russia because the

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nuclear power plot would be built in Finland.

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and there was also these Accusations of rasophobic. So who were suspicious of of cooperation with with Rosad.

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And finally, last year. First, the Prime Minister said, that these kind of issues are usually kept out of.

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I mean, energy issues are kept out of of EU sanctions.

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But then the Prime Minister wanted to highlight that Finland is kind of a but wants to be out of the United European Union, and that's that's why this whole project was terminated.

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So the political support was lost

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so Briefly about the results. So Fukushima. So there was a kind of a strategy of distancing.

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and the kind of an explanation was that Finland is, is an exception.

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But this kind of accident couldn't take place in in Finland

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because of different things, higher safety standards, and and so on. So there was this promise that Finland is the safest.

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most prepared, and thus ideal a country for production of nuclear power also in the future.

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Then the Crimea, in 2,014. So there was this, this, these accusations of rosophopic.

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And so the promise was that Russia is a reliable part, and also in the future, although there are some problems.

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But still Finland needs Russia and needs to continue this

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this energy rate with Russia.

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And then last year this invasion. So it was kind of a moral shock and a unexpected event. and the the whole project was terminated. And here still the promise I mean the

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promise related to nuclear power was that

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although the Russian technology was abandoned, so still there are other options, and the promise of nuclear power goes on. Small modular reactors. Sorry about the spelling mistake there. And so west and towards Western technology instead of of Ross atom technology.

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And then finally, some brief ideas.

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So

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crisis and shock shocks. They make this hegemony kind of a visible

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in in those speeches

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and these kind of a nuclear energy elites, they they manage to maneuver over

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different kind of crises.

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But sometimes there are such a big big shocks that kind of shakes the the whole system. And, for example, in this case the elite was ready to to give over the Russian technology. And this kind of a.

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this kind of example of

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material form of of power. They were really kind of the velocities! But still elite wanted to do it, and

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at the same time they saw a continuation for the promise of nuclear power they kind of a rebuild of

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made it

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saw that there are other options for the future of nuclear power. So

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and finally.

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here are some references we have used.

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Thank you so much.

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Yeah.

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Good morning to you all. My name is Charles Bavonia Kalu, and I'm research, Professor.

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the French, C and Rs, the Find center for

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scientific research.

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I'm glad to have a chance to try and persuade you that the concept of sociodacy can help advance our understanding of elites.

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Don't worry. If you're not familiar with this term, I'm going to explain a further what it means. just to start off

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the term was coined by Borgia, who took his cue from the Bavarian idea of theodicy

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In which With which you might be a bit more familiar.

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the definition of society can be the following, it refers to the efforts undertaken by the dominators, so to speak, to justify the social world as it is meaning most often to the on advantage. This is my definition also, bearing in mind something I should have said at the beginning that

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Boucher is not really keen on the word elites when he uses it, it's always in inverted commas to try and keep it at bay.

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These efforts encompass discourse as well as practice. It is more than just ideology in the Conference. of Borgia. On the State.

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Borgia. explains that he prefers the word sociology to ideology. a. to vague and rapid word. According to him.

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as noted. the terms of Sodc. Is not as well renowned as other budgies and concepts, such as habiters feel. Of capital.

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However, it is used in different subfields of our discipline, and also I think it is a to try and understand how elites

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influence our world today. Borrowing from what Bruno, Cousin Shamus Khan and Ashley Meirs explain in their introduction to the special issue of the Socioeconomic Review on elites.

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The research question that is at the thrust of the argument of so Odyssey is that if she listened carefully to what elites say nowadays, they

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00:53:07.850 --> 00:53:18.540
keep referring to change all the time. For instance, the French and Number one radio, Europe, number one. The

326
00:53:18.850 --> 00:53:23.650
their slogan is, listen to a world changing

327
00:53:23.990 --> 00:53:32.410
the slogan of B and P. Pariba. The French well-leading bank is a bank of a world that is changing.

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00:53:33.220 --> 00:54:03.180
Denton's one of the firms I investigated for my study of Pro Bono has in the bottom line of their email signature. So Denton's name of the firm challenges status quo right. So elites hold social change, and they claim a responsibility for the betterment of society, whether it be gender, equality, diversity, and inclusion, environmental concern, everything that frames what I call with a colleague of mine. Ethical capitalism!

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Now.

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our social scientists, we tend to observe quite the opposite, actually, and the consistency of domination as well as inequality. Think about Pketti's works, or think about size and Zookeman's book, The triumph of injustice.

331
00:54:22.860 --> 00:54:39.309
So the argument of so what I see is sociology sorry is, try to account for this discrepancy between elites, saying that the world is changing is changing sorry. And we, as social scientists, noticing that the world isn't quite changing.

332
00:54:42.910 --> 00:55:02.650
So in terms of theoretical lineage. basically, we have Leibniz Weber. And then Borgia. So Leibniz's idea is that everything happens in the world with a reason, or for some reason, which is usually associated to a God's purpose.

333
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The except that I

334
00:55:06.420 --> 00:55:27.620
placed in this slide is taken from Max Weber's Economic Ethic of World Religions. And it basically explains that everyone wants to understand their own happiness or good fortune, and they want to deserve it, which is at the core of the idea of Theodicy

335
00:55:28.550 --> 00:55:35.920
and Borja secular ways secularizes the idea of theodicy.

336
00:55:36.110 --> 00:55:47.890
There's also a connection with the right meals, but I don't have time for that. So I'm going to skip to the next slide. So now the empirical study I rely on to try and

337
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enhance the idea of sociodesi are both historical and contemporary.

338
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The first study is about the promotion of the idea of public service in France, and the so at the turn of the twentieth century, when France turned into a monarchy and an empire into a republic. So in the 1870 s. Units involved in this historical change are elites of the State, bureaucratic, academic, legal and political.

339
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The second study I'm going to

340
00:56:22.260 --> 00:56:26.310
dwell upon is the

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global lawyer's commitment to spread and encourage the practice of criminal work in large law firms. In this study the elites are stake at stake, are professional and top earning elites.

342
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What these 2 sets of Asians have in common is that they both claim to serve society. whether in public service or in pro bono.

343
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Think about also Weber's argument that domination is administration regarding public service and regarding probe, know that professions are service or community oriented to quote board you.

344
00:57:04.170 --> 00:57:08.409
So regarding French elites and their historical promotion of public service.

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00:57:09.370 --> 00:57:22.720
an an opposition between 2 different sets of elites can be drawn. The first types of elites are a list that were formally incorporated into the French feel of power.

346
00:57:23.170 --> 00:57:36.189
and when the Republic was proclaimed in the 18 seventies, they tried and avoid joining the graveyard of aristocracy, they trying to turn themselves into a more republican elites.

347
00:57:36.630 --> 00:57:42.709
the postography of the exponents of the idea of public service that I conducted in these research

348
00:57:43.590 --> 00:57:57.250
allowed to highlight. So this opposition between these kinds of elites, and another form of elites that are newly established and more connected to the republican regime. of France.

349
00:57:57.480 --> 00:57:59.870
Is one of them.

350
00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:08.889
and so historical sources show that the former elites, so these elites that were incorporated into the feel of power.

351
00:58:08.900 --> 00:58:25.069
Endorses the promotion of public service without actually believing in it, which reminds us of Borgia's ideas that lawyers are hypocritical in the sense that they claim to serve society while they not actually they don't actually

352
00:58:25.680 --> 00:58:30.479
promote a common good. This is

353
00:58:30.710 --> 00:58:32.619
kind of a critical assertion.

354
00:58:43.600 --> 00:58:54.279
I'm sorry I didn't have time to translate all the names of the viables in French. But, after all, French is also one of the official languages of Isa. So this graph

355
00:58:54.470 --> 00:59:01.679
is taken from the prosperity of the exponents of the idea of public service in France as a social space.

356
00:59:01.790 --> 00:59:13.589
the axis number one is about endowment in legal capital. Axis number 2 is the the position of the agents in the bureaucratic fields.

357
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:19.090
This morning, as I don't have much time, I'm going to focus on the

358
00:59:19.170 --> 00:59:24.929
legal endowment and explain that if you take, for instance.

359
00:59:24.990 --> 00:59:51.949
These people who are members of the Conseil data, who is a French? Administrative Supreme Court, these people, then? They have the Legion of Honor, which is the eye-highest. French! Order of merit, and which is usually used as a classic indicator of the integration to the field of power. These people lives in the very heart of Paris. They have a degree in law.

360
00:59:52.090 --> 00:59:56.700
and these people here opposed to these agents? Who?

361
00:59:57.170 --> 01:00:01.910
Whose? But whose dad was A craftsman or a worker.

362
01:00:02.020 --> 01:00:03.520
that our Communist

363
01:00:03.640 --> 01:00:06.960
trade units or atheists.

364
01:00:07.660 --> 01:00:19.450
So this signals and oppositions in terms of legal capital, religion, as well as incorporation into the feel of power of power as noted.

365
01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:29.390
This is the same diagram. In which I just took away all the viables just to leave

366
01:00:29.490 --> 01:00:36.240
the position of individuals with every public service as a supplementary valuable.

367
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:38.609
Now the interesting thing is that

368
01:00:39.390 --> 01:00:48.719
this so people can be either opponent to the Id. Of public service. They can be neutral, they can be proponent to the idea of public service at you

369
01:00:49.760 --> 01:01:01.119
now, mutual in theory. should be somewhere in between opponent and proponent. And now you can see that it is closer to opponent a proponent.

370
01:01:01.220 --> 01:01:07.610
and if you take at numbers, you notice that the people I call the former elites

371
01:01:07.720 --> 01:01:14.369
credits of of the of the state or elites endowed in legal capital. Much of them are neutral

372
01:01:14.620 --> 01:01:33.759
which illustrates the point that elites claim to favor public service while they actually just it is it is a language they speak without actually fully supporting it, which also enhances the idea that elites don't always do what they say they do.

373
01:01:33.890 --> 01:01:42.569
and elites try to change social change. They try to dictate what social change means.

374
01:01:45.650 --> 01:01:57.919
I move on to the second study I am presenting this morning to try and illustrate this idea of sociology. global lawyers, and worldwide spread of Proveno as a professional sociology.

375
01:01:58.730 --> 01:02:03.060
There are several arguments that can

376
01:02:03.420 --> 01:02:12.379
bolster the argument of sociology. The first one is that in the United States which is the cradle of pro bono.

377
01:02:13.190 --> 01:02:26.290
It is in the States where lawyers feel feel more competition with other forms of profession, professions, or professional segments that the highest rates of Proveno practice can be found.

378
01:02:26.540 --> 01:02:39.379
The second arguments argument. Sorry is that large law firms capture most of the revenue that is generated in a field of low, so the more a firm is profitable, the more it does per bono.

379
01:02:40.370 --> 01:02:56.520
And a third argument is kind of historical. It is not coincidence, or that fiscal legislation to incentivize. Pabono was taken during the Reagan years, so it sort of has sort of sort of has sorry

380
01:02:56.580 --> 01:02:59.810
a neoliberal frame of mind.

381
01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:19.380
This is an an excerpt from an interview I conducted for this research. So this woman is a junior associate established in France. And what she says is really interesting, because

382
01:03:19.540 --> 01:03:29.769
it's actually a case in point to the very, very veryian idea of theodicy. And it also shows that pro bono can be a justification for high incomes.

383
01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:31.959
So basically, she says that

384
01:03:32.620 --> 01:03:46.170
she is bad doing M. And a merger, and acquisition and pro bono can balance her feelings, because when doing for bono, she feels okay, she feels good. And so it shows that

385
01:03:46.640 --> 01:04:08.280
everyone tries to justify their own position, and pro bono can also be a way to apologize, or a way to redeem the evil that is produced by someone's focusing on corporate law or merger and acquisition.

386
01:04:10.240 --> 01:04:13.439
This is all for me this morning. Thank you for your attention.

387
01:04:26.470 --> 01:04:31.339
Thank you to all the speakers for doing so well with time, which

388
01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:32.850
leaves us a

389
01:04:33.750 --> 01:04:45.169
a good amount of time here to for questions and discussion. So I'll start by just putting it out. And we'll circulate the microphone

390
01:04:45.230 --> 01:04:48.530
for those who are participating online

391
01:04:48.800 --> 01:04:50.439
for those who.

392
01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:54.590
So we can also here in the room.

393
01:04:55.020 --> 01:04:56.279
So questions

394
01:04:57.920 --> 01:04:58.760
publicly

395
01:05:12.030 --> 01:05:12.920
be here to.

396
01:05:14.860 --> 01:05:20.720
and if people asking questions could also introduce themselves. So we promote the community spirit.

397
01:05:20.730 --> 01:05:22.299
do you want me to stand up

398
01:05:22.750 --> 01:05:23.640
the

399
01:05:24.390 --> 01:05:35.240
My name is Jen. I'm from Murdoch University, and my area of research is elite schooling. So I'm very interested in the panel today. Thank you very much for your presentations.

400
01:05:35.410 --> 01:05:37.920
My question is about the red wall.

401
01:05:38.420 --> 01:05:42.360
I'd like to know where you sourced

402
01:05:42.380 --> 01:05:44.649
the participants for your study.

403
01:05:45.580 --> 01:05:52.240
What is what, what the demographics were of those participants, and whether any of them

404
01:05:52.340 --> 01:05:55.039
self-described or self-identified

405
01:05:55.060 --> 01:05:56.099
as a late.

406
01:06:01.950 --> 01:06:09.989
So the participants were all identified by contacting local political parties because we wanted to stratify by.

407
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:18.740
We talk about it in terms of left and right. But we kind of speaking to members of all the major parties in the Uk Parliament. So it's like Labour Conservatives, Liberal Democrat, green.

408
01:06:19.630 --> 01:06:29.990
And so we would normally reach out to kind of the chairs of the local parties and ask them to to circulate. So that's where the participants come from in terms of demographics. And the

409
01:06:30.030 --> 01:06:31.879
it's it's fairly white.

410
01:06:31.940 --> 01:06:34.189
and it's more than 50% male.

411
01:06:34.580 --> 01:06:39.690
And the we do have a decent range of ages. Maybe the mean average would be kind of.

412
01:06:39.990 --> 01:06:41.030
and

413
01:06:41.330 --> 01:06:43.050
maybe mid fifties or something.

414
01:06:44.030 --> 01:06:51.819
and in terms of whether they self-identified as elite. So yeah, so one of the on the slide that put up like the Liberal conservative responses.

415
01:06:51.930 --> 01:07:06.649
Responses to the image task that we set at the beginning of the interview, and one of them did. They just presented a selfie with themselves and said that it was an interesting interview. Actually, because it was a different. It's a different take on the task than any of the other students have given.

416
01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:08.030
and

417
01:07:08.300 --> 01:07:18.179
and yeah, and described how they so they had come from quite a wealthy family. There. There was wealth going back like several generations, and the main thrust of the interview that they gave was about.

418
01:07:18.230 --> 01:07:25.020
and kind of like the philanthropy and the socially positive stuff that elite status can allow some people to do.

419
01:07:25.350 --> 01:07:26.500
and

420
01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:37.920
but that participants, I think, is is unique, and the sample is in that I don't think anyone else has. And in the interviews we do normally land on that we do normally say like, is there any sense in which you think of yourself as an elite?

421
01:07:38.070 --> 01:07:39.420
And

422
01:07:39.430 --> 01:07:45.159
apart from that one participants. I'm pretty sure everyone else the best we ever get is like, I know, but with maybe a couple of qualifications.

423
01:07:45.500 --> 01:07:46.260
Thank you.

424
01:07:52.800 --> 01:08:01.439
Hello! Thank you very much to all the presenters. Super interesting. I have to question one for Adam, and one for Charles

425
01:08:01.820 --> 01:08:04.959
A. For Adam, and

426
01:08:05.110 --> 01:08:18.789
it's about this a multi-directional antagonism that you were talking about in the construction of elite a conception. And I wanted to ask you about how do you think this can be a also

427
01:08:19.030 --> 01:08:31.379
combined, or I don't know if, if you think with this Nancy Fraser's perception of a how right-wing Populism or left-wing Populism

428
01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:43.900
deferred between each other, or the conception of elite, how left populism? They always focus on how the elite is a more like, not a person, but

429
01:08:43.900 --> 01:09:03.069
erez agmoni the 1% of the reaches people of the the society that we have to a face and a on the opposite is like the right way. Populism, that tries to set the elite has names. It's this corrupt elite that a tries to make things against the 150

430
01:09:03.270 --> 01:09:08.940
the honest citizens and the questions to charts is

431
01:09:08.970 --> 01:09:19.129
I. I really like this idea of elite administrative A, and I want to ask you about how can you relate this

432
01:09:19.400 --> 01:09:32.839
of, for example, the neoliberal domination of right. Now a. That creates this perception, that the technocracy is like the ultimate elite, because in in the administration of the state, because

433
01:09:32.890 --> 01:09:42.329
in the end. This all this public policies are. It's secure because they this, this use of

434
01:09:42.400 --> 01:10:05.109
a neoliberal practice, that a, as we know everything, how things will work it, then the public policies that are created. But this technocracy a then, can't be defied. So how can you? How can you also relate your work with this previous categories of a administrative elite with the actual elite of psychocracy.

435
01:10:05.280 --> 01:10:06.160
Thank you.

436
01:10:09.590 --> 01:10:20.179
Yeah, I can go first. And yes, I I do really like freezer stuff. I'm the difference between left and right populism, and particularly the directionality when it comes to the antagonisms that they contain.

437
01:10:20.210 --> 01:10:24.940
So I definitely think that's a good match for the data that we've collected up until now.

438
01:10:25.150 --> 01:10:26.130
And

439
01:10:26.550 --> 01:10:40.860
in terms of kind of yeah, like the structural differences between left and right wing populism. I've been so obviously this work focuses on the elite and the construction of the elites. But the that's not the whole story. With Populism. You also have the construction of the people at the other end.

440
01:10:41.440 --> 01:10:44.069
And you kind of have these 2,

441
01:10:44.150 --> 01:10:52.160
the 2 major schools of Populism studies, which is like Meflowian, the scars of school and and the Kazmood. aviation school

442
01:10:52.330 --> 01:11:00.760
and mood wants to talk about. So he does refer to mys. I mean, he says the Populism is an inherently monistic thing, and like it's

443
01:11:00.770 --> 01:11:04.129
both the elite and the people are defined as as monastic, and that

444
01:11:04.430 --> 01:11:12.520
and then Mclean and and Marcus Morgan, who was supposed to be there in this panel. I've written about how we actually know it. Probably it's it's a pluralistic thing

445
01:11:12.710 --> 01:11:24.899
from the finding that we've got. I'm more and more thinking that left and right Populism is kind of. They kind of. Both contain menistic and pluralistic elements that are kind of counterposed against each other, whereby

446
01:11:25.050 --> 01:11:35.579
on the left, we have, as you said, the 1%, this money stick elite against the 99%, like the pluralistic people. They are on the other side for right wingers.

447
01:11:35.610 --> 01:11:47.720
You have, yeah, this pluralistic elite, which is, which is less well-defined and has more like possible culprits. And I like a more monistic and people which is based on like a cultural and group or an Ethn national neighbor.

448
01:11:48.100 --> 01:11:53.130
And yeah, so I, for some way to answer your question. you know.

449
01:12:01.420 --> 01:12:14.210
Thank you for your question. So how can I relate my work on public service to technocracy today? I think the best way to answer your question is to think about rebuilding doors between high school servants

450
01:12:14.250 --> 01:12:29.309
and corporate administration or corporate leaders, which is something that is very pregnant. Sorry, very cogent, very strong. at the time in France.

451
01:12:29.700 --> 01:12:48.300
So these people are alumni from the ena, the French National National School of Administration, and after a few years working for public in public service, then, then, decide to join the private sector and then come back

452
01:12:48.320 --> 01:12:50.630
which shows that some

453
01:12:51.330 --> 01:13:05.149
in New Orleans it is really hard to fight for public service, because public service is incarnated by people who.

454
01:13:05.610 --> 01:13:06.750
I mean

455
01:13:07.300 --> 01:13:14.850
don't really advocate for the interest of the State, or for the interest of the general public, which is a problem.

456
01:13:16.640 --> 01:13:23.770
If I could just jump in with a question, for we've we've got one question here, another question there and then at the back, but

457
01:13:23.820 --> 01:13:27.450
I'll just pose a question to the panel. But if we probably you get

458
01:13:27.800 --> 01:13:32.920
Roger and Matty and Hannah Murray to to

459
01:13:33.010 --> 01:13:34.780
to address it initially.

460
01:13:34.900 --> 01:13:47.149
 you know, Roger, you mentioned like Eric Olen, right? And and that, you know, focus on on new elites. And the you know, it's more the economic capital in terms of distribution.

461
01:13:47.540 --> 01:13:58.829
But you know, when I think about elites, I'll you know, sort of go to Eric Allen Wright's parallel. And and so there's a question of to what extent are the elite plural

462
01:14:00.090 --> 01:14:02.130
ideologically aligned.

463
01:14:02.810 --> 01:14:12.420
Yeah. And and that's a kind of question of of power. And of course, Mills's argument was that the Cold war, you know, aligned different different elites

464
01:14:12.490 --> 01:14:19.900
that was somewhat separate. So to what extenders say the elites in London, to what extent are the energy elites in Finland.

465
01:14:20.160 --> 01:14:23.879
aligned with other sorts of elites.

466
01:14:24.080 --> 01:14:40.309
you know, and you know, quite popular. You know there's the It elite is often discussed as as one that doesn't align up with media, elites and other elites. But to what extent are we having this sort of Is there still diversity amongst the elites you're talking about?

467
01:14:42.350 --> 01:14:44.160
Yes. So

468
01:14:52.210 --> 01:15:01.240
yeah, I mean, I think there's been certainly in the London context, quite a dramatic transformation. Caroline Noel and I wrote a paper called The Haves and the heavy och!

469
01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:12.139
Which was a study of the way in which traditional aristocratic parts of London that had been occupied by quite traditional links for many years, was

470
01:15:12.190 --> 01:15:21.000
being superseded by new transnational wealth that had a very, very different kind of political veneer to to more established kind of conservative.

471
01:15:21.180 --> 01:15:23.040
a link within within London.

472
01:15:23.060 --> 01:15:40.089
If you were going to think about some kind of alignment between those social positions and ideological positions. and I think probably the best way of characterizing it would be that the new elites weren't necessarily supportive of the administrative state.

473
01:15:40.270 --> 01:15:54.100
They were more interested in forms of secessionary exit and market radicalism that was profoundly anti-democratic, and, in a sense, were perhaps the people who were most supportive of

474
01:15:54.100 --> 01:16:11.010
Populist movements that were out to destroy the the, the the administrative state. So I think if there was any kind of ideological tension, it was between kind of administrative stability, on the one hand, by traditional elites, who, you know, come to to recognize the the functioning of

475
01:16:11.290 --> 01:16:18.679
a contemporary near Liberalism, and those people who were more interested in a kind of post-new Liberalism which was a form of

476
01:16:19.100 --> 01:16:21.169
chaotic. capitalism!

477
01:16:21.210 --> 01:16:33.500
But I mean, that's a terrible kind of caricature of the position. But yeah, quite, quite radical transformations. Much of it, as you say, tied up with a Silicon Valley ideology in A

478
01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:37.739
towards a more kind of libertarian style. Of

479
01:16:46.010 --> 01:16:57.379
so, thank you. This is very interesting question. I think one of the characteristics of Finland is that Finland is a small country. It's homogeneous country.

480
01:16:58.050 --> 01:17:09.990
and it's a consensus-seeking country. So this means that elite actors know each other quite well. They form this kind of tight knit networks.

481
01:17:10.170 --> 01:17:13.300
and they are able to

482
01:17:14.030 --> 01:17:17.730
discuss things, make deals.

483
01:17:18.040 --> 01:17:22.330
perhaps, outside of democratic squares as well.

484
01:17:22.370 --> 01:17:24.929
So I think this is a

485
01:17:25.060 --> 01:17:26.230
definitely

486
01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:33.759
in terms of Finland. I would say that there is not that much diversity in elite actors.

487
01:17:33.910 --> 01:17:34.640
That's

488
01:17:35.000 --> 01:17:36.060
how I see it.

489
01:17:37.080 --> 01:17:38.800
Hi!

490
01:17:38.860 --> 01:17:52.200
I'm Aor Schwartz from Maryland University. Adam. I enjoyed the presentation tremendously, but I was a bit surprised by the choice to focus on our active party members.

491
01:17:52.410 --> 01:18:12.700
and I want you to elaborate or to reflect a bit about this choice and explain, because obviously party members are much more conscious of official party narrative, and are accountable to these narratives and to these organizations in a way that I wonder whether these

492
01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:22.799
binary, this binary story of of 2 ways to imagine all. It would have remained the same had you interviewed

493
01:18:22.810 --> 01:18:38.070
 ordinary citizens with different parties. Our support and the second question is to show I. About the first case of the State nobility.

494
01:18:39.080 --> 01:18:41.199
If this is indeed

495
01:18:41.570 --> 01:18:52.449
an attempt to legitimize the the bureaucracy and the times where its legitimacy is challenged, you would have

496
01:18:52.700 --> 01:18:54.320
assumed that

497
01:18:54.690 --> 01:19:22.229
the the those in this central position in the field would be the supporters, and they were the neutrals in in the graph. And I wonder why. And more importantly, would the supporters, the actual people that move this idea and these narratives were, and what moved them to, and of how their peer-field position shaved their support. And and and and yeah, of these new ideas.

498
01:19:22.780 --> 01:19:23.680
Thank you.

499
01:19:33.400 --> 01:19:36.510
Yes, thanks very much for the question. Ari, and

500
01:19:36.660 --> 01:19:47.400
yeah, so the on the on the point about we. We have been aware that party members may have this kind of feeling of loyalty anyway, or, as you say, like accountability to a party.

501
01:19:47.610 --> 01:19:50.639
And and so with that, we kind of made the

502
01:19:50.930 --> 01:20:06.440
the explicit decision to to be speaking to kind of rank and file members rather than party councillors, or anyone with any kind of like hold of any kind of position. We have had. A few counselors want to take part in the in the project, but we have rip off them for for that reason.

503
01:20:06.490 --> 01:20:24.370
And and yeah, we have. We have had the same thoughts of the the intention is that once we have 20 interviews done with each left and right, that if there is time remaining that we can before that Phd. Fund and runs out, and that we will speak with so people who are politically unaffiliated, which is partly.

504
01:20:24.400 --> 01:20:34.970
and, as you say, to to avoid drawing too sharp of a left right binary with the analysis that we do. But then also, it's partly to see if we can disentangle some of the biases that are

505
01:20:35.500 --> 01:20:37.559
tangled up in in party management.

506
01:20:48.900 --> 01:21:12.099
Thank you for your question. Let me just rephrase it to make sure that I understood it properly. So you were surprised by the fact that people whom you assume would be in favor of public service were neutral in a diagram. So something important to understand is that one thing is to promote the idea of public service

507
01:21:12.350 --> 01:21:34.879
and promoting public services like energy, public transportation, health care is a different one erez agmoni, because public service is so, it's it's like the difference between working on the idea of public service and public services, because public service is also part and parcel of the science of law. So this is why you can advocate 250

508
01:21:34.880 --> 01:21:51.740
for public service as an idea in the science of state or sense of law, but not necessarily in favor of the development of public service as a new form of policy.

509
01:21:52.250 --> 01:22:11.819
So, for instance, If you take political problems such as whether civil servants should be allowed to form trade unions. This is the indicators I use to determine whether people are neutral or opponent proponent.

510
01:22:11.860 --> 01:22:19.249
Also the the debate over Socialism in local towns.

511
01:22:19.340 --> 01:22:31.840
And so these political controversies serve me to build and construct the valuable that is neutral as opposed to

512
01:22:31.880 --> 01:22:34.410
proponent or opponent.

513
01:22:38.150 --> 01:22:55.910
yeah. Hi, Alex, from University of Acting, Christmas and Norway. I have a question like it. It's like to start the question. The charts, but I think it actually concerns the the panel. First of all, thank you very much for this for using or reintroducing the the concept of to so DC, because I really think

514
01:22:55.970 --> 01:23:01.040
it's a very, very valuable concept. You half answered my question, because I also was a bit

515
01:23:02.430 --> 01:23:12.880
intrigue to learn more about how your, how you operationalize the the neutral position. But everybody thought about it. And also when you gave your answer, I mean, my question is.

516
01:23:13.210 --> 01:23:17.630
if sociology is is a substitute for ideology, which often

517
01:23:17.640 --> 01:23:35.750
corners groups, that, suggesting that in in groups, have a certain perspective on  on social reality, and widens it and makes it a bit more flexible, because, with what you said, they, their own development. They try to reshape them. But it's also what we heard in the first presentation.

518
01:23:35.960 --> 01:23:46.109
Could you say a bit more about this? Whether we could. Perhaps you could replace neutrality with flexibility, because when I thought about the first presentation, I mean, we have. We have developments, for example.

519
01:23:46.620 --> 01:23:56.959
urbanization, a way that city centers become become enclaves of the super-rich. But of course, nobody says that in Norway that happens in every city, and it's all labeled sustainable, urban development.

520
01:23:57.300 --> 01:24:06.649
Right? I mean, that's it's it's sustainable. It's where people have expensive electric cars and and and and and highest insulation standards. But of course nobody can afford to live there.

521
01:24:06.680 --> 01:24:15.370
and people commute in to serve these people just as I was described. So my question to you, the child, and to all of them is, how would you use this concept of so

522
01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:31.260
to describe this? Or would you say that it's it's a good concept to describe this, this ability of the leads to adapt to to changing conditions, but basically be true to their own social position, and perhaps what you would be interested to know what they are, because we also not in the

523
01:24:31.540 --> 01:24:37.870
finished example. I mean, it needs obviously able to reshape and reframe their messaging. Thank you.

524
01:24:41.630 --> 01:24:44.619
Thanks a lot for your question. So

525
01:24:45.630 --> 01:24:51.370
I think Budget's critique of the World ideology is

526
01:24:51.700 --> 01:25:11.069
a bit quick, let's say And I would that add that So so to see, can be just a more. We find way of construing ideology and the opposition or the underlying opposition between superstructure, superstructure, and a first infrastructure.

527
01:25:11.070 --> 01:25:22.669
So now, regarding your claim about flexibility, I think you're right, and I agree with you there. I think that one of the

528
01:25:22.980 --> 01:25:39.100
features of elites is the ability to change or the ability to accord well with change in the sense that, or to re-orient change. So that change doesn't force them to change.

529
01:25:39.170 --> 01:25:42.490
and I think it's particularly true. for

530
01:25:42.680 --> 01:26:11.100
civil servants I studied in my Phd. Because they they try to be non-political at all, and they have a non-political view of politics which is sometimes problematic. But you're you're absolutely right in the sense that elites. do not necessarily want to change. And I think this is something we can notice in terms of environmental practices

531
01:26:11.970 --> 01:26:15.989
on the CPU. Yeah, Roger, do you want to comment, to make a comment.

532
01:26:19.360 --> 01:26:20.380
yes.

533
01:26:20.460 --> 01:26:36.069
hey? Yes, I'm Susan Shui from the Chinese University of Hong Kong. So thank you very much for the fascinating presentations I have. 2 broad questions, I think, are for all the speakers. The first one is about the definition of the elite or the boundaries.

534
01:26:36.140 --> 01:26:50.860
It seems that you know. From the presentations there 2. One is about what resources or power that you know. Some groups or individuals process another. One is what inference, political or social, they can exercise.

535
01:26:50.870 --> 01:27:08.099
and but then so For you know in your view which one is more important, or you think they both because I think. And now this is really important for empirical research. If we want to use the concept of the elite, where are we going to find the elite who are the elite.

536
01:27:08.140 --> 01:27:36.079
And so this is my first question. The second question is about at the formation of the elite. most of the papers focus on at the national level or within the Nation states. but I think I would also talk about the trans national process. So I just want to in the see whether but I think some of the empirical studies indeed, you have, you know, refer, but more implicit Implicitly, to more

537
01:27:36.180 --> 01:27:54.540
extra state or or outside the national state process. So but can you elaborate? You know a little bit more about, for example, how globalization has to shape. You know, the formation of the elite, or how they elite. You know the as we, you know the inference of the Atlantic in societies. So.

538
01:27:55.010 --> 01:27:58.110
and maybe we start with Roger in relation to the transnational.

539
01:28:06.200 --> 01:28:17.630
Thank you. I mean, I guess I was interested in trying to relate, you know, quite traditional conceptualizations of social class to the elite literature, I suppose, and to think about the way in which

540
01:28:17.780 --> 01:28:20.879
the hypothesis that the

541
01:28:20.980 --> 01:28:28.779
the global political economy was becoming one more orientated towards assets and and the run-tier function. What the implications of that might be.

542
01:28:28.830 --> 01:28:42.290
I think the definition of of an elite that particularly concerns me is the establishment of a of a relatively small group of people now who have called away at a global level from from

543
01:28:42.290 --> 01:29:02.140
even what I, you know might call the merely wealthy. We are really interested in a group of people who are incredibly powerful because of money power, I suppose, of wealth, power on a scale that we haven't seen since the gilded ages of the period before the First World War.

544
01:29:02.230 --> 01:29:21.770
I think London is probably quite specific. It's a number of one of a number of global cities where urban real estate in particular has become, if you like, a kind of a safety deposit box for global elites looking for places to put their capital.

545
01:29:21.810 --> 01:29:36.489
And we've seen the the gross financialization of of housing stock. But increasingly, other other kind of global investments as well, and I think one of the things that is quite noticeable. And this is what breakfast has talked about in his new book

546
01:29:36.530 --> 01:29:53.709
is the way in which what he calls the asset management society is shifting away from just financial investments to to actually making huge investments in in material infrastructures with consequent rates, rates of returning increasing in quite, you know, dramatic dramatic ways.

547
01:29:53.920 --> 01:30:10.470
So London, New York, Sydney, perhaps, might be very different to to the Finnish case. It might be very different. It came to the Paris case actually in terms of the way in which the the French bourgeoisie seemed to have been quite able to defend their their kind of territory, as it were.

548
01:30:10.510 --> 01:30:24.170
But the specificities of the London housing market in particular, does make it quite an interesting site for the dumping of of transnational wealth on a scale that we haven't seen for what we've never seen

549
01:30:24.460 --> 01:30:25.210
people.

550
01:30:25.430 --> 01:30:27.250
Yeah. So if we go to

551
01:30:28.200 --> 01:30:40.180
Matthew, maybe. And and just yeah, what are the transnational elements of of Finland in relation to? elites? You know that the you know energy market is, you know, one of the

552
01:30:40.480 --> 01:30:49.620
through global markets. but all or is there still? You know that traditional, you know, power based in the nation state?

553
01:30:50.370 --> 01:30:58.379
Yes. What I have in in mind is really our case. It's or the way we are looking at it.

554
01:30:58.480 --> 01:31:07.800
It's very national. But this question about international connections elites. It's a very good one.

555
01:31:08.030 --> 01:31:18.089
And, for example, if we think about the EU Russian relations and I mean energy policy in that context.

556
01:31:18.220 --> 01:31:31.319
so, for example, German Germany has had a close relations with with the Russians, and they have had a lot of energy trade there.

557
01:31:31.340 --> 01:31:40.950
and there I see a kind of a connection, I mean, with the German Social Democrats and Social Democrats in in Finland. So

558
01:31:41.320 --> 01:31:47.130
I could say that there's this kind of a post-politic East politic.

559
01:31:47.380 --> 01:32:03.480
It might be 1 one way to look at it and kind of have a wider picture of this case that that finished leading finish. Also a Democratic politics politician state. They want to to have this close

560
01:32:03.710 --> 01:32:08.159
interaction with the Russia and that way try to to.

561
01:32:08.370 --> 01:32:09.550
perhaps to

562
01:32:10.590 --> 01:32:14.620
to make it more closer to to the European Union.

563
01:32:17.880 --> 01:32:28.090
And I think you know arguably, that's the the neoliberal transnational dimension of of energy and the power of elites there that, you know, seem what

564
01:32:28.610 --> 01:32:33.120
you know decisions by Germany in relation to lack of energy or autonomy.

565
01:32:33.210 --> 01:32:44.510
a reliance on Russia, you know. you can override. Probably you know what would be otherwise the interests of the nation state in relation to national security. So

566
01:32:45.540 --> 01:32:48.440
is there any other questions or comments.

567
01:32:59.420 --> 01:33:10.460
My name is Vladimir Putin. My name is Vladimir, put in the

568
01:33:10.500 --> 01:33:18.610
the you talk about hegemony, you know, and and then you talked about these these courses that

569
01:33:18.690 --> 01:33:28.630
the nuclear power leak use uses there. You think it might be a case that they are dominant, but not hegemonic

570
01:33:28.790 --> 01:33:50.229
because it seems to me in the case study that you gave that when the time came they decided to give up the discourse that they had before, and so it seems to me as if there is a Yeah, that it's. It's a dominant discourse that they use most of the time. There is no hegemonic.

571
01:33:52.280 --> 01:33:56.599
Yeah, I suppose, in the end of our

572
01:34:00.040 --> 01:34:04.250
2,022, when Russia attacked Ukraine.

573
01:34:04.710 --> 01:34:11.870
I think a lot of this hegemony that they have was sort of somehow gone so.

574
01:34:12.490 --> 01:34:20.199
But I think there are always more struggle in society and and and and

575
01:34:20.570 --> 01:34:29.859
there are different actors who compete compete. What is the like negative view. And so

576
01:34:30.390 --> 01:34:36.109
I would say that maybe nuclear power elite has been quite powerful in defining

577
01:34:36.490 --> 01:34:47.529
how nuclear power is perceived in a Chinese society. And now there are different discourses, like

578
01:34:47.910 --> 01:34:51.219
small monarch reactants. I think this was.

579
01:34:51.960 --> 01:34:59.740
and at least for now this was an end of era in terms of large nuclear power plants. But

580
01:35:00.690 --> 01:35:08.430
we see there are also a lot of other aspects that are sort of interviewing in the process, like

581
01:35:08.950 --> 01:35:15.160
renewable energy forms and those kind of new elites that come from from there.

582
01:35:15.210 --> 01:35:17.629
And there's also like a lot of

583
01:35:17.790 --> 01:35:24.290
criticism. in like, just built a new nuclear power plant

584
01:35:24.760 --> 01:35:25.780
I

585
01:35:25.990 --> 01:35:31.990
17 years to construct it. So this kind of hope is kind of negative

586
01:35:32.510 --> 01:35:38.310
aspects that are related to nuclear, and it should be somehow

587
01:35:38.590 --> 01:35:41.639
involved in the analysis of

588
01:35:41.690 --> 01:35:43.650
about heck of money in Finland.

589
01:35:44.890 --> 01:35:56.129
If I could just follow up as part of the hegemonic element of the nuclear in framing it. And as green and environmentally friendly does that discourse come through? Yeah.

590
01:35:57.580 --> 01:35:58.810
great

591
01:35:59.270 --> 01:36:23.119
my name is. And I'm from also university. And I also represent the elite lamp just the institution that we established some time ago. However, my presentations during this Conference Congress are a little about something else, but I have a question to Charles, especially if I understood this correctly. How we understand the concept of a low capital legal capital that you used.

592
01:36:23.120 --> 01:36:32.410
Ok, and to which kind of capital in Buddha times it suits the best because he used 3 forms of capital. The fact of 4.

593
01:36:32.410 --> 01:36:55.979
This is a cultural, social and economic capital, and the fourth one, which is in capital, in fact. But it is a form of capital, of a certain form of capital that is especially elites. Use you use when they exercise power, because it enabled them to you to to switch between different forms of capital, and as to understand France.

594
01:36:56.060 --> 01:37:22.149
the the the most powerful elites in France are is bourgeoisie, and those people who have economic power. So the first question is about about this, this, this, this legal or low capital that you use. And the second question is a very easy one, and it goes to the theory of elite because one of the main important questions about the leads, whether they are reproducing themselves or not.

595
01:37:22.150 --> 01:37:51.979
when there is a kind of a shift or change between the generations. So it's a question to actually, to all of you, but especially to you, whether those elites in France, those legal elites, those those those people from this legal representing the legal sphere, whether they are reproducing themselves in a sense that children of they legal parents, become also legal elites as well. And how do you see this situation in

596
01:37:52.100 --> 01:38:18.559
in in that context. And the lady from Hong Kong left us. But I think that the good idea about thinking about how to concept well is the conceptual I's called conceptualize elites is to use this this, this notion of a symbolic capital, because it helps us understand why the elites in different countries are different. Right? Because in Poland, for example, my country.

597
01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:30.390
the most important influential leads are those who have the highest rates of cultural capital, and, as I understand France, for example, the elites in France, those who you know they have this

598
01:38:30.390 --> 01:38:43.680
privilege position are those who who have this economic capital. So so what's what's what's what's what's the answer about this reproduction of the Us. Legal legal capital? Thanks.

599
01:38:46.990 --> 01:38:48.180
So

600
01:38:48.290 --> 01:38:51.240
 you sure

601
01:38:51.900 --> 01:38:53.690
you would use an orthodox

602
01:38:53.780 --> 01:39:07.080
you should know that there is a specific from capital in every field. So if you analyze the legal field, then it means that there is some sort of legal capital at stake in the field.

603
01:39:07.480 --> 01:39:16.979
So one way of looking at it is to especially back in the 1,800 seventys is to

604
01:39:17.470 --> 01:39:23.460
check whether people have a law degree or not, and what kind of law degree, and from which faculty

605
01:39:23.490 --> 01:39:34.919
and this is kind of classic in a way of comprehending elites. Now, as to whether elites do reproduce themselves well.

606
01:39:36.030 --> 01:39:50.280
my response would be that when Borgia first introduced the concept of sociology. It was in an article about the sociology of Religions and sociology was framed into different

607
01:39:50.310 --> 01:39:52.659
strategies of reproduction.

608
01:39:52.960 --> 01:40:04.160
So the way board, you understand. It is indeed a way for elites to reproduce themselves, and I think

609
01:40:04.600 --> 01:40:09.870
By and large it is still the case in in in France today.

610
01:40:17.130 --> 01:40:25.109
So when I think about the Finnish nuclear energy case, so how the elite has changed.

611
01:40:25.420 --> 01:40:28.120
I guess the most.

612
01:40:28.820 --> 01:40:33.370
most obvious example is the stand of of

613
01:40:33.830 --> 01:40:35.040
queens

614
01:40:35.580 --> 01:40:38.910
on nuclear power, I mean, still, in

615
01:40:39.400 --> 01:40:48.230
2010, those green Mps in Parliament they were voting against.

616
01:40:48.440 --> 01:41:07.879
But I mean later. I mean, today, there are many Korean politicians who are in favor of nuclear power, and they talk about the small modular reactors. So at least they are trying to, or they want it to be part of the nuclear elite in that sense, and I don't know if that's

617
01:41:08.580 --> 01:41:16.169
if the elite has re-changed it itself. But it's kind of expanding in business.

618
01:41:19.700 --> 01:41:31.439
If there's any other comments from the panel about that, or any closing comments, or any comments. The panel like to make of other presenters, or ask questions of other presenters.

619
01:41:36.410 --> 01:41:55.430
I just want to add to what I've I've said about the legal capital that in boys terms, legal capital is both inherited and made toquatic. Because if your dad is a solicitor, for instance, especially in the period I studied, you're more likely to get a law degree, but a law degree is also a form of

620
01:41:56.190 --> 01:41:59.609
Now it, so to speak, because you have to go to University

621
01:42:02.040 --> 01:42:06.439
great! We'll leave it there. Join me in thanking all the speakers for a great session.