Quentin Ramond: Okay? Right? I won't share anything, because I'm not presenting. I do not have slides, but I will just introduce the session, because I think we should start because we are on time now.
Quentin Ramond: So Hello, everybody. Everybody on on Zoom, everybody on in the room.
Quentin Ramond: Good morning, or good evening. Depends in on where you are, and and welcome to this join session between our C. R. C. 0 4 and our C. 21 about housing and and school choices.
Quentin Ramond: So what we are going to do today. First of all, I would like to to thank all the families for their interest in the session, and all your presentation looks very interesting, and I am sure that we will have a very stimulating discussion
Quentin Ramond: so briefly, just to tell you my name is Quentin Ramon. I'm an assistant professor of of Sociology and the Catholic University of Chile, and I work on the relationship between housing and school inequalities and focusing on
Quentin Ramond: on segregation processes. And I'm carrying out with research included in France with my colleague, Michael O'verty, who could not make it today, as I told you, but he apologize for that.
Quentin Ramond: So the very briefly, the idea of this session was to gathers gathers people, scholars working on the relationship between housing and school choices.
Quentin Ramond: and to reflect on the consequences, the replication for a social inequality.
Quentin Ramond: And more specifically.
Quentin Ramond: this session the goal of this session is to study, to examine how patterns of housing and school choices emerge among families, to deal with growing affordability, constraints, and competition on the housing and on the school markets.
Quentin Ramond: and we also seek in this session is the during session to understand the consequences of housing and school choices in terms of life, chances, social mobility, residential trajectories, segregation, and so forth.
Quentin Ramond: So to to tackle these questions. Today we have the the great opportunity to hear 5 presentations from Europe, from the Us. And from India, and we will have the following forward
Quentin Ramond: first, Peter Reach will present, then we will have Marta Cordini and Andrea Parma. Then we will have a category of kilograms
Quentin Ramond: Roberts and Nimali goes one.
Quentin Ramond: And about the organization of the organization, each presentation will last 15Â min, and I can tell you when you have 2Â min left, and at the end of the 5 presentation we will have about 30Â min for discussion, so we will
Quentin Ramond: have this half an hour for discussion, so please make sure to to write down your question and comments or to write it in the Zoom chat. So we will have a time for discussion. Okay, so this is this was just this, this brief presentation I I wanted to make. So that's it. And now I give the floor to Peter for the first
Quentin Ramond: presentation. Me, too, please.
Quentin Ramond: Right, we can see your screen. I hope everybody in the room can see your screen. And you have 15Â min.
Peter Rich: Okay? And Quinton, can you hear me? Okay.
Quentin Ramond: okay.
Peter Rich: excellent. Thank you so much. for organizing this session, I'm really honored to be a part of it. I'm gonna be presenting work here that It's co-authored with Anne Owens at the University of Southern California. I'm an assistant professor at Cornell University in the Us. And I have several empirical projects that are very closely tied to the theme of this panel session the nexus of neighborhood and school. choice and its implications.
Peter Rich: this project actually is more of a review piece that we submitted because we were hoping to stimulate the research community to think very carefully about housing and school choices. And so what I hope my presentation will do today is kind of
Peter Rich: key up everybody else, and and provide some context for the empirical projects that we'll see presented after this one
Peter Rich: And so I want to to start off saying that this paper has actually been published. it's in the annual review of sociology. It's coming out officially later later this summer. But there's an online version that's already available. And so so not only am I not presenting empirical work, but I'm also presenting something that's already published.
Peter Rich: 2 things I don't like to do. And so I'm gonna try to make this as engaging as possible and pull some things in. So I'm just gonna talk a little bit motivating this and provide our argument in the paper and then discuss some conceptual challenges. in this literature of neighborhoods and schools. before really making an argument for a new approach. and then I'll conclude and talk about some implications for research.
Peter Rich: So the first sort of motivating framework is, of course, as we all know, children grow up in segregated, unequal and consequential social context. We have a lot of research internationally that has picked up on how segregation reproduces itself and also its consequences for children's long term outcomes and often in the neighborhood and school effects literature. There's a little.
Peter Rich: a little sort of debate that seems to resurface in paper after paper about identifying how much neighborhood or school contexts each independently influence life outcomes. So sometimes you'll see questions like
Peter Rich: which matters more neighborhoods or schools or questions such as our schools, the primary reason that neighborhoods matter. So we have institutional resource theory, for instance, which argues that in the neighborhood context, schools are one of the main institutions, and through that that's where we get the expression of inequalities.
Peter Rich: And I'm not going to review this entire literature. But we do try to pick up on quite a bit in the in the paper itself.
Peter Rich: But empirical answers to these questions very widely. And that's kind of the thing that I want to focus on and ask why, what what should we do about it? So again, without reviewing all the literature, I'll just say that, depending on the outcome of interest in the context contextual setting, you get some papers that find that schools seem to be the driver of a lot of student outcomes, independent of neighborhoods.
Peter Rich: or vice versa, And there have even been recent papers suggesting that schools have no explanatory value in explaining how neighborhoods matter for children's outcomes, but they maybe have an independent effect. that's a recent paper. by wood key at all in the in ages. And so these sorts of
Peter Rich: you know, sometimes contradictory findings. We don't argue that they're incorrect. It's just that They haven't really taken in the entire scope of the regional context that, is really situating how those findings emerge.
Peter Rich: So our argument is that neighborhoods and schools reciprocally shape and reshape one another. So it's not that just neighborhoods or just schools matter. even in you know, especially across context, but that you know, children and families are embedded within these neighborhood school dynamics, and that you have this counter cyclical relationship, where people are sorting into neighborhoods often to obtain access to schools.
Peter Rich: And then the schools themselves are shaping the neighborhoods. They're shaping the composition of the neighborhoods. They are
Peter Rich: you know, as an amenity. They're shaping outcomes. within the neighborhood for families potentially influencing family investments. and there's this sort of reciprocating process. under way.
Peter Rich: So
Peter Rich: it's an interdependence which is this structural feature of spatial stratification. And so we argue that this is something to be studied and incorporated into the neighborhood and school effects literatures not something to try to isolate one or the other. And
Peter Rich: in many cases it's going to be really, really hard to isolate just neighborhoods or just schools. So that's sort of our our starting premise of the intervention in the literature that we want to suggest is moving away from the neighborhoods versus schools, paradigm and thinking about
Peter Rich: how is the broader local structural context, shaping, how neighborhoods in schools might be affecting families, and how families can be also affecting neighborhoods and schools.
Peter Rich: So doing. This requires that we expand this traditional contextual effects paradigm.
Peter Rich: And really, that we put a lot of effort in systematically in the investigating how schools influence family residential sorting, and in some cases that's going to require a really detailed knowledge of local context to be able to get a firm grip on how this all plays out for families.
Peter Rich: So I'm going to outline some conceptual challenges that are in the existing literature. especially in this sort of neighborhood versus school effects debate, and then from there I'll pan out to
Peter Rich: to brought in the argument about this neighborhood school structural framework. so the first conceptual challenge is that of course, neighborhoods and schools vary in their influence on different outcomes and at different life stages. And you know, we reviewed a lot of literature. Although we're both us scholars, we we we
Peter Rich: try not to to make that a a problem for the paper, and and via, you know, expand our, our, the scope of the literature we were reading, and we found across
Peter Rich: the world some really important studies showing the ways that neighborhoods have been shown to affect. you know, income and adulthood and and high school completion and educational attainment. and also student achievement and attendance. but then we also see similar evidence. that schools matter, and oftentimes the studies will try to
Peter Rich: control for one context and see if the other sort of remain. the effects remain.
Peter Rich: But that sort of might overlook the way that families compete for neighborhoods and schools as positional goods within a local setting. And so I'm gonna use a Us example. in a little while to explain this further. But what I mean by positional goods. There's a a fantastic paper in sociological science. by I think it's Adam Goldstein and Pat Hastings. wrote this paper about how families in a metropolitan area
Peter Rich: are all sort of competing, and in it in for housing
Peter Rich: to access schools, and that in places where there's more inequality. they're paying more for for homes near higher performing schools. And so this idea of positionality, it really takes the the regional context, into the framework where
Peter Rich: a neighborhood in one region might, you know, have a certain Median income, for instance, but that that means something very different compared to a neighborhoods, Median income with the same income, but in a completely different setting.
Peter Rich: The third conceptual challenge is that family sorting impacts the composition, resources, and quality of neighborhoods and schools. And so it's not like this is neighborhoods and schools are exogenous treatments that are just kind of the children or families, just sort of experience, but rather in the sorting choices they make, they contribute to segregation, they contribute to resource allocation.
Peter Rich: And this really really matters, as we know, because the the overall context that kids are finding themselves in are the results of how everybody else is sorting with one another.
Peter Rich: and at the institutional level. Of course, neighborhoods and schools also shape one another, so the types of resources and amenities and other support institutions in a neighborhood can be influencing what's happening in the school, and school settings themselves are often anchor institutions where they provide other kinds of support for a local neighborhood. And so this sort of desire to separate neighborhoods and schools.
Peter Rich: so it requires that we overlook a lot of these ways in which they're entangled together.
Peter Rich: So the neighborhood school structure approach that we are advocating.
Peter Rich: defines neighborhood school structures as local contextual arrangements linking neighborhoods to schools via a wide constellation of of things like.
Peter Rich: So there's direct policies, institutional practices, demographic forces. And then also really importantly, responsive sorting behavior. How families are kind of responding to these contexts.
Peter Rich: So this approach recognizes that school access rules very substantially across the regional context. You may have different mixes of private and public schools in the Us. Context, there's a the emergence of charters and magnets that are sort of quasi quasi private public options.
Peter Rich: You have geographic boundaries and transfer policies, things like school districts in some places like in Sweden. there's not a strict districting structure, but there's still a priority access based on proximity to this school. And then there's house premiums themselves. So the house prices in attractive areas, the structure, the real estate market and its response to to local schools.
Peter Rich: the other thing that we want to rep recognize. And this is a really important piece is that there are distributional inequalities at family school and neighborhood levels.
Peter Rich: and those distributional inequalities vary across different regions. And so you have different sort of spatial formations of how inequality coalesces in a particular region, and that can vary from city to city metro and metro across different in a different national context.
Peter Rich: And so I'm going to give you a us-centric example here by showing you just a couple of maps from a related empirical project that I have and so to orient you to this. This is a a part of the Bay area in California. These are school districts, and then the smaller lines are little catchment area zones where kids are assigned to a a local public school. So you have bigger districts and then smaller catchment zones. And
Peter Rich: what you're looking at is a choropleth map that
Peter Rich: basically ranks every every polygon in the map based on the standardized test score. So yellow are really high achieving schools in the area and dark purple are really low achieving schools.
Peter Rich: and so I
Peter Rich: put an arrow to this one school district right here. It's called Piedmont, unified and Piedmont, unified is a donut hole completely surrounded by Oakland unified school district. And so in this sort of a context, you have a a small area where the kids who live there are accessing some of the most well funded schools in the State. schools that are very high performing.
Peter Rich: and in the us context, parents will add additional money to
Peter Rich: raise money for their local school to help with capital development. So they have, like, you know, top notch facilities, but they're surrounded by really low, low achieving schools. in poorer neighborhoods. And so this is one example of sort of thinking. Through what does it mean to be in a high achieving neighborhood? here.
Peter Rich: a neighborhood with high high performing schools. And how related is that to the socioeconomic composition of that neighborhood relative to the rest of the area.
Peter Rich: and so to highlight the just how much variation there can be in these formations. this is a similar map this, using the same scale. But this is in the Chicago Metropolitan area
Peter Rich: where within Chicago there's much more widespread school choice. But there are still school district dividing lines that prevent students from attending a high quality school if they don't live in this outlying district, and it's called Oak Park.
Peter Rich: this is in the Pittsburgh area, where the distribution is much different, and also whether kids live in the central city or out in the suburbs matters immensely for their access to schools. Here's for Cleveland, and so I'm running out of time. And so I just want to conclude by kind of
Peter Rich: recapping a little bit of what we're we're trying to argue, and we hope this becomes a useful article for people to be able to site and to motivate their own papers as they're looking at both selection and effects at the nexus of neighborhoods and schools. So the first key point is that these local neighborhood school structures are this backdrop of family sorting
Peter Rich: and studies that treat the inner relationship between neighborhoods and schools as a, you know sort of statistical nuisance to be controlled. They risk misunderstanding. And and.
Peter Rich: you know, having biased estimates And then the other thing is that both the effects and the selection segregation literature should really be thinking carefully about how, in their particular sites, how neighborhoods and schools shape one another reciprocally.
Peter Rich: So the the final thing. I'll say this, my last slide is sort of where do we go from here? So we argue that we should be making neighborhood school structures an object of inquiry, not just a a context, but
Peter Rich: in the background of a study, but something that in and of itself is an important and interesting to understand and that we want to investigate the structural contingencies that moderate neighborhood and or school effects, and just incorporating these linkages in in the studies that we do. And then finally, as a final point, we want to encourage researchers to limit making policy conclusions.
Peter Rich: outside of the context that they're working in and and even so only doing it if they have strong identification of of an effect.
Peter Rich: So in there. Thank you for your attention. I look forward to hearing the other presentations.
Quentin Ramond: You can see we're clapping great.
Quentin Ramond: Yes, thank you, Peter. Thank you so much for this very stimulating and original presentation about your
Quentin Ramond: approach, that I think it is very interesting, and also it introduces very well to session. It's at the stage for more. And now and we can work with our colleagues who are here. So now we will go on. Thank you for the time. 15Â min perfect.
Quentin Ramond: So now we will go on with Marta and Andrea.
Quentin Ramond: who? We present their work. So you have 15Â min as well.
Quentin Ramond: thank you. Can you see my screen? Yes, perfectly.
Marta: Okay. I just
Marta: okay. Thank you. Everybody for for being here. I'm I'm very happy, and I'm also very happy to
Marta: to follow up with a rich presentation if I'm not wrong, because the he really
Marta: kind of set up the floor for the importance of context and the and the local the local features and what we, what we Andrea, are are trying to do is this, is this is the
Marta: a very draft work, and it's the first time we're presenting it. So we are very happy to have some feedback on that 150,
Marta: and we are trying to understand them. how the
Marta: the the lack of features are are effective are affecting the the chance of mobility to work at school. That is not the school located in the in the neighborhood of a half residents.
Marta: and the study is located in in in in Northern Italy
Marta: and
Marta: And our research question basically can be some hopping to what extent to editorial futures affect the school choice in a quasi-market educational context by quasi-market educational context, we mean, we mean an educational system that allows a great freedom of choice of of parents. And so actually, the criteria of, for proximity is not as not being used since
Marta: the nineteenth. In the in the city of Minnesota. So parents are basically allowed to choose whatever school they they want.
Marta: and what we know from the research. But also, some of serving the the case is that such economic status and educational level affects greatly the probability of hoping up, of hopping out from the local school, and in the case of Milan specific, and we kind of serve that more than half of the family choose to roll their kids, not in the local school
Marta: and mostly they choose another state school. So they do the the the 20% goes to private school. But the great part of the families who choose to to not enroll their kids in the local school go actually to another public school that is not located in their neighborhood.
Marta: What we observe is that the probability you know, of hopping out from the local school is not, does not seem to
Marta: homogeneously distributed over the catchment harriers, and not even among those located in the periphery. So if we observe just the periphery that is, from where we have the major flows towards other school usually located into the city center. Actually, not from all the catchment Harris located in the periphery, we observed the same flows.
Marta: and
Marta: what We know, and this applies in general to the European context, but especially to the Southern European Congress, is that in this kind of quasi-market educational context, of course, the Houses Agency appears to be particularly relevant, relevant, especially in how the the school segregation is shaped, and we have
Marta: a higher level of soft mobility. And it's especially the middle class that engaged in this kind of of strategies. of course, to ensure the reproduction of the social advantages and basically looking for the the homogeneity. So what they call it. The people like like had.
Marta: while the working class households. They have actually in the in this city and in another Southern European city
Marta: mobility partners. But the behaviors are less predictable. So the rational that more the behaviors are not the same than the
the middle class.
Marta: or at least the the exits of of the day, the the outcomes of the behavior
Marta: and what we serve. And that is is that what moves our search question is that especially Houses Houses Agency is the very often investigated, detached, detached from the territorial future. So we have served the the housing provides, with respect to the such economic features with respect to the level of education, any more qualitative students with the the background of family, the educational career of parents, and so on. But
Marta: we do not study hit really that really attached with the territory of features of the place where
Marta: the family.
Marta: and on the on the other side we we see that, especially in the in the primary cycle of education. The search for that is, I like the relevance of of proximity.
Marta: just to give you a little bit of the context before entering in in our
Marta: as as I said, as as as I mentioned, the the quasi market system has been introduced in the early nineties, and as well, a little bit later, with the school autonomy that has posted the between school competition
Marta: and the the the the reason that my widespread State school hosts are distributed within the cities.
Marta: and we have of serving the last 20 years. But the the run has has changed very, very fast. We're changing in the school system due to the race and the migration of flows and the the increase in processes of gentrification. So the the city
Marta: and
Marta: we here you can see a map of the half of the city halfway on, just to give you an idea that each harrier you see they are the cut, the catchment tariffs, and the darkest one. How the the catchment is where we find the lowest, such economic level, what? Why, they watch one that are concerned, that has, as you can see, they are really concentrated into the city center. They are the catchment tariffs where we have the highest economic level.
Marta: And just the the the last futures of the educational system of Milan is that we have one State school for each catchment area.
Marta: Okay, so one local school for each of the of the area. And I I leave the floor to Andrea for the
Andrea Parma: they.
Marta: Okay, you
Marta: do. You want to go ahead or I finished it.
Marta: Okay, sorry. This is Our data are based on on a survey.
Marta: And then the survey as as being conducted in the 2,021, and parents who were about to a role their children. So parents who were about to make their choice. And it's the it's quite important that they were about to they have has just made the choice of. We're about to make it. And they haven't had any experience about the school. Okay, so that they, their horses, weren't biased by the experience they could have about about about their school.
Marta: and we had about 1,200 responses from primary school. Most of them are Italians, but we have also percentage of so rangers, the seventeenth century, the 70%, and most of them were models, and the the 82% were employed
Marta: and
Marta: on on the other side of the line you can see the distribution provider of education that mirrors the distribution of the level of education of parents children are rolling into primary school in in the city, hoping land. So half of our sample has a degree, basically, and the rest is distributed in
Marta: over the other educational level. Okay? And now it's I really leave the
Andrea Parma: thanks, Martha. they're not. This is to that we present today. It's still a draft as Marco site. But the first
Andrea Parma: the first analysis has been done through
Andrea Parma: running some regression models focusing on primary school. That because we have a more Casey saying that we're more consistent after the value of screening operation, and we focus only on the truth the choice of a State schools without considering that they, those are enroll in in private school, because here you have also taking consideration on the fees. And so it's a bit over a complicated that.
Andrea Parma: And so we we integrate to later, and that the regression model we present today is an artistic regression model, as the definite variable is Equal to 0 when they choose the when they choose the catchment out of school as the first choice, and one when they said external, there's this school that as they first a choice, so basically, parents can when
when they choose that they can.
Andrea Parma: These 3 schools are the and rank them but on their preferences. So in this case, we have not analyzed those who have moved out about those who want it to to move out, because they select the as they first choice, the school that is not their catchmentary school. Them
Andrea Parma: you and there are 2 important, independent, variable in this in the analysis that we presented the social economically that of the children. So of their family, because they are at primary school level. And we have in the survey to question one about the occupation of the parents, and the other one about the income or the household, that we
Andrea Parma: mix the both of them, and we recreate the A, A variable, the indicator of a socioeconomic background in the family, and on the other side there for the catchment, the social economy can ever the catchment. We use a sense of data we
Andrea Parma: take, we took in consideration into unemployment. The occupation the occupation of the residents population. we the chief training school in school age, the educational David, and the the present of public housing, and we then run it factor and obviously to extract a factor, and then we divide the catchment data in
Andrea Parma: what I. Then you can go on the other side. And here you have a we can see the regression about the the
Andrea Parma: the probability of one that walked out and the era on the first.
Andrea Parma: the second column there for the call cent. Our beta call center, and the year you can see that parents with Ig a socioeconomic 11 or more or medium twice how the such economics are ever more likely to want it to to open out them and back on the other side. in terms of the
Andrea Parma: I to want you to move out to another State school there.
Andrea Parma: But then we added another lawyer to the analysis. Because we I, our reporter, is, What is that. Okay? people who want to move out when, especially when they are in the most problematic enable routes and also disadvantage neighbors. But it may depend also on what's
Andrea Parma: what's around those neighborhoods. And so maybe they no, you were able to keep on the and back to then you. So we add another valuable that capture the presence of the enable or all surrounding catchment area. We that
Andrea Parma: bet on such a economic compared to the one of resident, because we try to understand if people move out to them to have something that is maybe consider better around the them, because, as you see from them and produce map that are some cool clusters, all the disadvantageic catchment are so ebay. If you move to the those around the they may you still get the same. Me account.
Andrea Parma: Okay, Ed, indeed that you are. You can see the second, that calling about the coffee center. those who are more likely to want to walked out. They live in catchment area where there are surrounding.
Andrea Parma: And then we try to interact today with a socioeconomic level with the the and then you can go to next slide. We are the interaction, and you can go to next slide. We are the interaction with the estimated probability to
Andrea Parma: to take it for the catch from the regression. And you can see that in catch my data with low socioeconomic level. The probability or 2 opt out is a hike for those we the medium, or, I guess, socioeconomic level. Why, those who are most disadvantaged. They
Andrea Parma: they tend to stack in the catchment. I ask with them.
Andrea Parma: and then this same trend is present, for they need you to. Would all the catchmentary So they say on the why, that when they
Andrea Parma: and just that those will be you to go over the ground, they to be the they they are, I mean already in those catchment are I tend to, prefer to stay the catchment at school because they are
Andrea Parma: in every just such a chrome you can make up. I've heard that in the day. One. Why, that it's not actually a partner for those with the meeting to I the social individual, they they tend to also to
Andrea Parma: or concede that also that option. And in particular we we analyze, we try to analyze the
Andrea Parma: those kind of parents with the would, even in the in a better off the catchment area, and they tend to M claim that they consider a lot of the reputation of schools. So they they move out between the surrounding and the reputation of all of the school.
Quentin Ramond: Next slide, one and one minutes. That's the final point
Andrea Parma: for those in the most disadvantagement with the low soci economic background, we try to understand that we look at what they look for, because on one end also, the leader will say that they are less likely to concede that all the other option they are the best, the users and
Andrea Parma: our survey parts. They confirmed it because they tend to consider that they have to consider that option, and not to more than 2, but they around that for them. Consider also that option, and what they look for is you is the the absence of artificial barriers, the size of the school, and the prices also support for special needs to students. So they have a different
Andrea Parma: set of criteria compared to Those with the
Andrea Parma: I got some economic background that we've been in better
Andrea Parma: in a better of a catchment area. And it may be also that the school is the
Andrea Parma: but that we see that the per they actually the to want to talk about depend on socioeconomic background, but also on territorial feature and in the combination of of Those. Say, this is specially used by the middle class.
Andrea Parma: Thanks everybody for listening to us.
Thank you, Marta.
Quentin Ramond: We're clapping again. We have people. We have people in the room.
Quentin Ramond: Hello, people in the room. Thank you, Martin. Thank you, Andrea, for this great.
Quentin Ramond: we, a great great presentation about within the segregation school choices.
Quentin Ramond: and we go on. We are going to stay in the Mediterranean region because we go on with Catigo, who is going to speak about the Greece case?
Quentin Ramond: Sorry for being so annoying with the 2Â min, but we have time to respect.
Quentin Ramond: So cattle you have 15Â min as well.
katigo Kexrologou: We cannot hear, because you are here
katigo Kexrologou: a
katigo Kexrologou: housing the school? This is the question. Several days in Western Europe. In the U.S.A.
katigo Kexrologou: The quality of school facilities in my neighborhood is a key factor in the choice of residents.
katigo Kexrologou: There is often a rate of between housing and school quality.
katigo Kexrologou: and what criteria are used to classify individual in the space of the neighborhood as a place of residents, and how this possible case influence
katigo Kexrologou: their other choice.
katigo Kexrologou: The choice of cruel is based on the location of right decisions where to stay for granted.
katigo Kexrologou: the relationship does not affect different social groups. In the same way
katigo Kexrologou: a friend, have all
katigo Kexrologou: I. They live in privileges where schools are
katigo Kexrologou: of high quality, or even if they live in Iraq with a mixed social profile.
katigo Kexrologou: The 2 schools, provider public. even far away, for the place of residents. On the contrary.
katigo Kexrologou: neighborhood.
katigo Kexrologou: they'll be on space, bears the responsibility to allocate, place and create the social interaction with the criteria of inclusion being ethnicity, nationality, gender, class level of education.
katigo Kexrologou: In the opinion context, the fact that that
katigo Kexrologou: they terminate the choice of residents where the location of inheritance, family supports networks and financier.
katigo Kexrologou: Excuse me, constraint, or all of this together.
katigo Kexrologou: The purpose of this. how the second generation of immigrants a
katigo Kexrologou: choose the school environment as the general high school or the case. You know, high school.
katigo Kexrologou: my research start things September.
katigo Kexrologou: Then we 21 and last for 2 years. With the moral support of my my supervisor, Thomas Malutas, I approached them anthropologically. The school use it the methodological of participant observation.
katigo Kexrologou: I enrolled as a student at the Vocational High School with first year majoring in the Junior, and the second year measuring
katigo Kexrologou: initially, I joined a class of 25 students at them, 23 female students at
katigo Kexrologou: 16.
katigo Kexrologou: In my capacity as their classmate, I was able to. Is it a to study that mandate, envelope, and gaming, they made understanding of their experience.
katigo Kexrologou: My daily presence up to the school created a cleanmate of fitting intimacy and interaction with them which facilitate my observation, and consequently the classification.
katigo Kexrologou: This particular school was chosen because it has a reputation in the neighborhood as the Albanian school.
katigo Kexrologou: The student population of this
katigo Kexrologou: doesn't know it
katigo Kexrologou: according of the title in things. And your children do not role in this school because they consider the level of education really
Quentin Ramond: sorry. Can you switch your screen to full screen, because in Melbourne they then they cannot see your presentation. Please thank you very much. Sorry for interacting.
katigo Kexrologou: Not sure
Quentin Ramond: if you can switch to full screen your presentation, please? Because in Melbourne, they cannot see your presentation
Quentin Ramond: can you do that please
Quentin Ramond: full screen
Quentin Ramond: the
Quentin Ramond: left hand corner at the at the top.
it says like presentation mode, if that's possible. Thank you.
katigo Kexrologou: No. I don't.
Quentin Ramond: The bottom right corner you have. maybe button. Let me
Quentin Ramond: right?
katigo Kexrologou: No.
Quentin Ramond: okay, let's go on or or I have another option. I can actually share the screen.
through here. if you could just unshare your screen. I'm so sorry. If you could just unshare your screen first.
Will that be possible? And then I will share the screen, and I will go the slides, as you tell me to go with the slides.
Yeah, so
let me just check
all right. it is the this one.
there's no presentation. I'm so sorry. So yeah, so please, continue sharing your own screen. Sorry for that.
katigo Kexrologou: I continue.
Yes, please, please do share your screen again.
katigo Kexrologou: Okay.
they are really sorry for interrupting.
But you're doing a great job.
katigo Kexrologou: Okay?
So you can see on the bottom of your screen share screen. It's a green button.
So yeah, on your screen. There's an option. You can see a green button there. Sheriff's Creek.
Yeah.
Can you see it? Never
katigo Kexrologou: the first that I will present in place. Presentation come from the second year. No
katigo Kexrologou: of participant observation, for from the Gary section we cannot see your shared screen.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Maybe if you can describe to us, like, what's the technical problem, we can have you.
katigo Kexrologou: I have problem.
Quentin Ramond: If you go to the zoom application, then you have to share screen button on the button on the screen.
katigo Kexrologou: No problem.
Quentin Ramond: And
katigo Kexrologou: thanks.
Are you on zoom right now? yeah. Sorry.
Quentin Ramond: just as as you did like 5Â min ago. You shared your screen.
Quentin Ramond: It's work. So maybe you can.
yeah, if we can proceed without the presentation, then we can do so.
Really sorry for interrupting. But yeah, we are excited to hear what you're going to say.
Quentin Ramond: Yes, cat, you go. I think the best thing is that you can go on with your presentation.
katigo Kexrologou: but we are listening to your presentation. Maybe you can.
katigo Kexrologou: and the internal migrants. Perhaps that is why the first generation of economic meet and choose it as their place or of residents.
katigo Kexrologou: It may now be a typical neighborhood of a middle class social profile, but it
katigo Kexrologou: the character it software.
katigo Kexrologou: the block of last we it was built with, it's man. It's my apartment. 5 5 world economic migrants to live in this
katigo Kexrologou: neighborhood.
katigo Kexrologou: Moreover, it is failed from the 4 months narrative that neighborhood is probably market by.
katigo Kexrologou: By the
katigo Kexrologou: when my parents come here they were not married. They then they went back up to Albania and got married.
katigo Kexrologou: They came here to Paris because all people from our village live here, and they all know each other, and we, my parents when they came here.
katigo Kexrologou: were not married. Then they went back to Albania and got to Mariot.
katigo Kexrologou: They came here to pretty shows, because they all live, I know, in our village, and they all know it's out there, and we here at school have now. It's all the since we were children in primary school.
katigo Kexrologou: the freight of study, the vocation of high school in this particular neighborhood of Athens.
katigo Kexrologou: that in this majolithic students from the same ethnic group, Albanyan, which reinforced that identity it of the same time.
katigo Kexrologou: All of us from are here. We have hanging on out. We were young. I come here because it Caesar, Albania for Cov. You all fact, your home.
katigo Kexrologou: open completion of base education. They choose a school unit where
katigo Kexrologou: they knew from other pace, then that they will they accept because of the dominance of their ethnic group in the school? They will be able to speak to their mother tank, and they will not have it to make, especially for to pass to the next grade.
katigo Kexrologou: They garishment them. They'll ban a long way on a daily base, both at home and the school a second generation immigrant get. They do not devise their ethnic order for communication, they are indefinite to the dominant language of the rest of us associate they.
katigo Kexrologou: and to of them the present the national language as an extension of the
katigo Kexrologou: it.
katigo Kexrologou: We speak Albany at home, my parents, and the same day, but we don't want to speak
katigo Kexrologou: it the and that's what we do with our friends. So
katigo Kexrologou: if they here now have a problem with that speaking in Melbourne they should left, not by Albany. They should understand. We don't do it like that. We just understand. It's other more. It works out since we call it. We all now Al ban you here
katigo Kexrologou: what they so surely do
katigo Kexrologou: we do. And in high school they used to say that to us, but they we were all like here. They get it back to the monopoly, to that program imposed by the school, and the is by being sarcastic.
katigo Kexrologou: you ungrateful Al Banias. We gave you a job. You are at bed, and you want to go to school Albanians out of the schools.
katigo Kexrologou: The
katigo Kexrologou: of Gary's invocation educate education. It not only occur because they were educationally like in behind the native, this in general high school, but perhaps they unconsciously understood the
katigo Kexrologou: that they would only be integrated in
katigo Kexrologou: the
katigo Kexrologou: by the encouragement of the education. Hi! It's a relax here. Do you like it? Don't worry. You go. You won't fray they 8 days out absence intent.
katigo Kexrologou: If you live they will close down. They won't have any kids in high school. They kicked the May out and deteriorate with any absence I could get up in the morning. I won't miss the first class
katigo Kexrologou: here. I miss them to, but what I can can I do? I finish work late.
katigo Kexrologou: There is a experience school as a place without the framework
katigo Kexrologou: wearing them, they can impose on their replace instead, do it to the lack of by, but in the experience
katigo Kexrologou: and the class they belong to
katigo Kexrologou: the experience. A double exclusive family in school, and try to bridge the gap by. It's a
katigo Kexrologou: Bro. My now has brought there a school in the house, and he picked up my siblings.
katigo Kexrologou: Now, by, I'm come to sport. I take my savings to school in the morning. If my mother isn't home and she's drunk, I don't really my to be in so long with him. I pulled that knife one on him one day, because she hit my mother.
katigo Kexrologou: Where can I feed the brains to come to school? We have to money, and that go to help my mother at the beds are out all the day, and my mother pays for everything.
katigo Kexrologou: Tomorrow. I have that course with my father. I'm afraid they I I only look him up.
katigo Kexrologou: He's changed a lot. That war my mother used to put the work in his mouth.
katigo Kexrologou: Haven't I told you
katigo Kexrologou: she sent me to cost me that by hitting me. But now we made up
katigo Kexrologou: he.
katigo Kexrologou: I'm afraid tomorrow I will confuse in the question, and they will be my fault if he gets that time
katigo Kexrologou: I will have my day life with me. I will talk to him before I go in. I have had him since I left my house, and while I did with the booboo to a man
katigo Kexrologou: we sent to him, and he jumped out the bathroom wisdom. He spoke us. She called the police by their life.
katigo Kexrologou: 2 of my friends at me there, but they didn't r us out.
katigo Kexrologou: Then. Then I change. Call to wait. But now I am going to wait bullshit
katigo Kexrologou: and come to school. We'll both pass in support of the of data. We can summarize the first of the reset
katigo Kexrologou: on that so far in the
katigo Kexrologou: by 5 female students for first generations.
katigo Kexrologou: we are relocating this.
katigo Kexrologou: what the economic and social profile of the inhabitants does not. So any division and era. They are part of the lower.
katigo Kexrologou: however strong, social, and only one or certified certification is in place at the opposite side.
katigo Kexrologou: So, setting for female people with ethnic and class characteristic of flow, economic profile.
katigo Kexrologou: Their schooling is done in time for class, which includes their different ethnicity.
katigo Kexrologou: The cultural background of the family environment. Who's the famous yourself to break deprivation of any potential development?
katigo Kexrologou: Thank you very much.
Quentin Ramond: Thanks a lot, Patty, go for your very interesting presentation, and sorry again for the stuff on the screen. But you think we
Quentin Ramond: or in this.
Quentin Ramond: it's all right. No problem. So now we have 2 presentation left.
Quentin Ramond: Robert is going to
Quentin Ramond: now for 15Â min as well.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Yeah, quite. And thank you. Can you see my screen also in full screen mode.
Yeah.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: yeah, okay, that was a yeah from the audience. Thank you very much. Also. Hello to all the people, and never and very happy that you're there. I appreciate it. and my name is from the University in Germany. I'm very happy and excited to be in this panel, unfortunately, not to be there on site. My talk is going to be on school segregation, or, more specifically, the intersection of school enabled segregation and why it what it might have to do with mobility patterns rent increases, and both an online like, combined
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: with gentrification disclaimer. I am in Germany, not at home, but in a hotel room like in Manhattan, a different city, because I'm there for a workshop on like spatial regressions, and it is 3 30 Am. In the night. So please excuse if I'm not as energetic as I'm like usually am, but it's the most terrible times, whatever. But anyway, I will give my best So
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: there is a lot of research about justification, housing, affordability on the one side, and like also tons of tables on school choice and school segregation on the other. So why, like another study in general on the topic, I would say, because the linkage can actually be theoretically and empirically pretty useful.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: And this has to do with like housing pendants. So some, it's about my motivation. They're like a lot of qualitative case studies on like these overall topics. but very few quantitative attempts to look at the relationship, especially over time when they exist. They're like mostly from the Us. they like some from Europe, for example, I'm Saddam, but not from Berlin. Not at all. And they all have been made. And that's maybe the more important point and settings of a lot of official choice possibilities.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: so
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: yeah, there's no perspective from this, where we have like strong binding rules about elementary school catchment. So we already heard from Elam and so on. Free school choice market, and so on. That's not the case in Berlin. so, policy wise. There is a very clear pairing between the residential distribution of families and the school composition. The State authorities call it like the short extra routes
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: rule, and there are not that many possibilities to exit the standard public sector, I mean, of course they exist. I mean, they are like some private schools. They also like a little bit increasing, as in other parts of the world.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: but still like much more than 80% of the overall schools are public schools with, like the strict binding rules, there, almost no magnet schools.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: And the stand up really is the assignment to the closest public school by the catchment zone. Therefore, also, the most common assumption is that there is a very clear carrying between residential segregation in the catchment zones and school segregation. And if there is change
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: happening in these neighborhoods, change will also transmit to our schools. So, for example, for and for like justification, just like so many unpleasant side effects, or like general effects on side effects. But this is another anecdotal assumption, at least one pleasant side of fact is, there's a decrease in school segregation gentrification ratification areas. Well.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: let's see. So
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: even though in Berlin, of course, they're an even in the strong policy regimes there are possibilities to choose a school, even though the State does not want you to do it. or at least officially, one that is often overlooked. We heard it from Peter before is You can actually move to other neighbors and sketch me so before children approach the school age to simply avoid that. The residential allocation, like, let you end up in a school that you don't like with the big. If
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: if you can afford it. If you can afford the housing price, if you can afford the rent, there are other other possibilities. If you stay put, I mean. Of course.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: there are like illegal mechanisms also within the public system, such as providing the authorities with a false address. which yeah, you can find by a lot in Berlin. So it's kind of you need to be risk from. And they're like legal ones that sending children to the like. The few private schools that exist that do not have these rulings. But you need more money for that.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: or that you have this kind of transfer application to other public schools that the school authorities need to approve, and this only like works with like very special rules. We need a lot of pre knowledge for that. So a lot of qualitative studies show that, of course, most often parents with more like social and cultural capital are like able to to do this. And like a lot of these applications, are also rejected and refused.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Okay, so what about identification and and housing? And all this topic? I mean, most often the perspective in the literature that is looking at it is that, yeah, we have differences
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: of like high resource identifiers that recently it moves to the neighborhood, and that is why we see more school choice and to find neighbors than somewhere else. So, although, let's say, like very
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: simplistic, although they value the diversity, and like the vibrancy of the area, and so on. They avoid most labeled schools, even if it's a more conflict with like
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: they own more compass, and to put it in an excel generative way. And but this kind of means that because of this newly referenced, as we see very or stronger deviations of residential school segregation in general for enables than in other neighborhoods. But I'm a little bit asking, is this actually all? And at least in Berlin and in many cities about the world like over the last 10 to 15 years.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: We kind of see yeah, like like a housing affordability crisis. And, for example, just to give you, like some numbers for Berlin, and over the last, like 8 or not, about 10 years, we saw, like average rent increases in asking rents of more than 100%, and in some parts of more than 200 in. In gentrifying neighbors.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: and at the same time we have, like, very strong, at least in Berlin, very strong red protection of existing leisure. Just also give you the context. In Berlin we have, like 85 of all people are renting. So it's really like a rental city. So it's like
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: home ownership is not a thing in Britain just that, you know, And because of these, like spring, strong rank, protection loss, we actually observe a stronger gap between asking and existing rent. So, as a consequence, I would argue, we see more incentive to stay in existing contracts. This is also been well documented with some data in Berlin, and if somehow you can stay, you will stay in your apartment, even with some circumstances like, let's say, the ratio of living space, and so on, are really not perfect.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: And just because the incentive of the old lease is really so high, and it is disproportionately high and gentrifying neighbors. So what does this mean for school choice? I would say, especially like for pioneers, and like already gentrifiers who like move to neighbors, not because of their children, but because of their like single life
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: that now, when they're like approaching school age of children that they have, they maybe would have moved before to other neighborhoods to really choose this now they cannot afford it anymore. They are like having other circumstances.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: but they stay. Put then, and change
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: like there's schools.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: This is not like an increase, maybe in school choice per se. But it's just another mechanism that we see that it also expresses itself differently. So very shortly
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: to really, that maybe summarize my research questions I attempt to answer. Like to the association between the school segregation of the segregation of catchment zones. We can over time.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: It isn't even a strong policy regime as Berlin, like more pronounced and justifying, enabled, and somewhere else. And is it maybe also increasing over time with, like the problem of housing, a portability increasing. And can we trace something to it back to like change, mobility patterns of young family in the city? So let's take into the data. First thing, the day of situation. And Germany is like, very different from the Us. And other States. Just
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: that you know it. You cannot just download like school data. The authorities, you know, just publish it.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: and they do not collect as many information as another state. So don't be too hard on me, please, but we are not working with the same St. In standards of data we look at here, but with some time in stem, and it's still possible to get something. So what I have now is a combination of a variety of data sources here on the school level, I have currently a panel of
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: 9 years here in this like presentation, it's even more. But there are like some issues with one data update. So it's not included in the presentation. And for the social composition of the schools. I only can use a proxy in Berlin.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Well, the share of low income families. And so it don't have like income data or something. But yeah, it's still there. The authorities also collect shares of like non German speaking households at the school, which again, does not allow for any differentiation of the specific background or citizenship of the
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: pupils. Not speaking. They're Germans, but I know some comparisons with, like the catchment zones on this spatial level. I'm using a variety of sources that I don't have the time to explain in detail about this, partly from official statistical offices, partly that's great
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: for the rental data. And yeah, I kind of need to homogenize the spatial boundaries as the statistical units in Berlin. They do not fit like the logic of the catchment zones, and they also do the the logic of the possible codes where I have, like the rental data from so like, I used area rate proportional split. And Gs software also, additionally, way to the population size. If it more questions about that, we can go back to it.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Also, just one word about how I measure gentrification. I know there are tons of papers about how you should measure it, and like what is the correct way to do it also, just very shortly how I did it with like the data that is available in a Berlin
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: okay. So maybe they just that, you know, like for my time period, which areas in Berlin, if you know the city a little bit are actually gentrifying. I mean.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: you're maybe you're seeing like, oh, we're missing some parts like cancel or back, which is like a famous example of like a gentrified neighborhood in Berlin, by like the process, I would say, is already over. So I'm really more focused in the terms of how I measured it and where it's going on like during my period of studying. This is, for example, mainly here, some parts of coord spec, the whole of my current, some parts of vetting, and so on, and so on. But I don't go by that, you know, like all the names of it.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: maybe just some general trends of like segregation on the catchment zone. So the residential level
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: in Berlin, for example, for like people with our children, like the unemployment indicator, like the level of surrogation, just like very basic index of segregation here is like pretty low, but it's increasing a little bit. But if you look at like
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: poor families, so children living in in low income families, you actually have overall a trend that's I mean, the level is much higher, but it is decreasing, which is, I would say, a good thing in Berlin. It's decreasing over time for the period that I look at same for the non German speaking household. Let us look how the schools are actually composed. So first thing.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: They are segregated at much higher levels, even though we have these strict policy rules. I mean this also, like a consistent finding. And most of the literature. I'm not something that you. But maybe you look at. Like all the development overall, it is kind of increasing for the economic like Aes indicator. So exactly the other trend around, even though we have like residential levels that are decreasing. for the non German households is more follows the trend, but still at much higher levels.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Okay, so what about identification? I mean, you can just shortly see, like how the Nssg, so the skip already find it is actually at schools with like less low income. Families at the school then live in the catchment zones, and with more so more privileged on the left side, less privileged on the right side, and it's kind of consistent that it is more pronounced in genification area. So we see really stronger deviations. And these deviations also.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: then, at least on the right side kind of increase over time. So it's a problem that is, yeah.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: getting worse. If you just look at these graphs, I mean
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: same thing if we look at the non-german speaking household so like a non-economic indicator, and it's a little bit more difficult on the left side, because we have also have way, less schools and justification areas. that have more German speaking families at the school than live in the catchment. So which also means that more parents are opting out for areas outside of terrification areas. But still, like the overall trend is, it's higher.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: He may be more to stable level. But it's more happening and identification areas than other parts of the city. So the opting out, as you said, like, and and it's really not homogeneously distributed in the city. So we have like influences that are, yeah, that are
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: doing something that
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: so increased gaps here. What I wanted to do is to see at least what I can do on the spatial level, to kind of see what the factors are influencing this get and what you or what I did so far, maybe just shortly explain, like a column one and 3. I simply calculated, like pool, all this regression over all years.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: and irrespective of the time trends that I have. And yeah, you can kind of see the general association with the covariates. And here, like really identification areas. But also private schools in the catchment zones in the interaction of both. So like private schools in gentrification areas are amplifying
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: the gap. Yeah, like a lot But I was also interested in terms of my argument, like, how changes actually do affect this. So 2 and 4 like this is the fixed effects, like time fixed effects. And I try to like calculate changes on changes to kind of see, like what's what's influencing the whole gap, and
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: maybe just to
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: guide you through it like very quickly. And for the mobility argument, I look at the share of families of children under 6. I'm all the whole population of under 6 moving out of the neighborhood. If the residential output of the ability of these families with like young children decreases.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: it seems to reduce the economic and Ssg kind of against my theoretical argument. But think, if I interact to it with like the changes in the rent level and this coefficients, it kind of shows you that some point this from flips and shows that decreases in mobility among young families, in areas with like very strong rent increases. They kind of increase the get again. So we see, like more opting out, more school choice.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: but important to say, just for the economic indicator, not the language. German speaking one. So family seem to be picky about the economic composition. Not that much about the other one, even though we have like no official information whatsoever. It's not published, you know. That's as a background for you. German speaking indicator is actually officially published. The other one is not.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: but it's guiding, like the choice process so very quickly the conclusion that school enabled segregation that seems to be stronger in justification areas and increasing more strongly, and gentrification neighborhoods.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: yeah.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: in gentrification areas, we only have, like a few schools with more privileged student body than enabled much more schools the other way around. This also means like privilege. Parents are rather choosing schools located outside of the justification areas and other cities. Other parts of the cities.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Private schools are that
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: in terms of the Nssg. And they even verse and gentrifying neighbors, you know, of course, oversimplified, but that you just get the image. And and what about like school choice via residential mobility, I mean the general trend where we see an increase in out moving mobility of time families, the MSG. Increases, but remember, the general trend is, like the rest, less residential mobility within the city.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: and the trend flips for areas with increases in rent. So where we saw both high random fees of low outputability.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: I would say, like a more like a locks. In effect. we really see an increase in school choice. So there is something I got the name of the housing market that we did not see before
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: in terms of how it affects parents. and there's no choice behavior, and that I think it's important to also conceptualize, if we like talk in the session about like the overall influence of of housing as well on school choice. Okay? So my shortcomings, I think I'm I ran out of time button today.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Yeah, kind of I mean, I can like very shortly say it. Of course, only work with aggregates from the school enabled level here, and I would need like individual data to really trace school choice pathways and different types of gentrifiers. I'm very aware of it.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: And the measurement of certification also here is not optimal of the data that I have, but it's like a German issue. And I still think that we should do research in Germany and the mobility that data doesn't allow for me to differentiate between different types of genes which is like an important part of the argument, but still you can see this overall trend. So that's it.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Thank you for like listening also. Thank you for the room, and I'm happy for all the questions and remarks afterwards.
Quentin Ramond: Thank you, Roberts, for these grades presentation in a very different settings
Quentin Ramond: from Greece, Italy, and the Us. So now we will move on our last presentation to a completely different context, also
Quentin Ramond: from India with
Quentin Ramond: Namali, please, Namali, are you here?
nirmali: Hello, yeah.
Quentin Ramond: Yeah. You can share your screen and start your presentation
nirmali: for 15Â min.
nirmali: All right. Good morning, everybody.
nirmali: Am I audible?
Yeah.
nirmali: okay, I can hear you, but I cannot see your screen.
nirmali: good and
Quentin Ramond: great. That's it. If you can put it in the presentation mode.
Quentin Ramond: full-screen mode.
Quentin Ramond: so that people in the room can see
Quentin Ramond: okay? Great. So you have 15Â min for the last presentation of this session before we move on to the collective discussion.
nirmali: Thank you. And good morning. From Ish to India.
nirmali: this is 7 here in the morning, so it's better than the previous presenters.
nirmali: Yeah.
nirmali: a very good morning, and I really feel let me first thank the organizers of the session for giving me this opportunity.
nirmali: I do feel a little. I'm teaching sociology here at. and I do feel a little out of place here because my entry into school education was moving from
nirmali: cultural politics of education. So this paper is more
nirmali: kind of re-reading what I worked on almost a decade that.
nirmali: Yes, it is the data that I use in this
nirmali: a presentation, particularly from the Ethnographic.
nirmali: is quite date. So what I did later on that I realized, and I had the opportunity to write a paper for the Urban and Education project.
nirmali: So. And then I realized that the ideas about the special aspects of the politics which involves which is which is embedded in
nirmali: Identity, in, in, in the decisions about schools, among neighborhoods are often ignored. It is still not the really mainstream way of looking at school education in India, where we tend to talk more about class based inequalities and basically the consumption related aspects of it.
nirmali: but yeah, there's not more to learn from it. So yeah, apologies in advance. If you find it very different or not so
nirmali: and it it it in a way, it starts from the point where I think Robert
nirmali: ended his presentation, where he talked about Not having the aggregate. Oh, sorry, having the aggregate and not having individual set of data to actually understand the pathways through which people talk about nobility. Because in this paper
nirmali: what I have tried to do is, I have made an attempt to examine the relationship of schooling with aspirations among lower classes in a non-metropolitan Indian City, the city of guarantee if you might have heard of it, or
nirmali: as a center of religion Hindu religious and Buddhist practices. It is also has been historically one of the important center of education from pre-colonial to the contemporary period. It has, with best class, cast and communicate.
nirmali: communicating segregated modes of settlement that have shaped the relationship of schools with city dwellers in specific ways.
nirmali: The exploration of a private school that promised access to English while catering to families
nirmali: that were from lower classes actually were revealing in how the special embeddedness of the lives of people shape their aspirations and relationship with students. So I'll begin by pointing out how, in understanding
nirmali: also
nirmali: special politics in urban India, in non metropolitan setting, can help us go beyond the limited discourse of school choice which often shapes the debate about you know, school choice in urban India, where we usually do, because most of you are from outside the context, and many times we take it for granted. School choice in India is often debated through the prism of the discussion between the government and the private school.
nirmali: and the increasing tendency among the middle classes and the lower middle classes
nirmali: to now move towards private schools, even though they might be them. There may be a costs involved, but they are seen as a better
nirmali: signifiers of prestige. And they seem to provide. Another argument is that
nirmali: they seem to provide better access to the more valued symbolic resources like use of English and standard forms of regional languages. Yes, that's also a
nirmali: issue there. So most of the So what I tried to kind of understand me a little later in in in past few years is try to
nirmali: map my understanding of how people look at and the families look at their neighborhood school
nirmali: through the prism of the by embedding, though their experiences in the historical context of how special
nirmali: segregation along lines of community occupation and past has actually influenced the way
nirmali: families find a school approachable or not with the idea of distance and proximity. yeah. So the problems with, and begin with the discourse of school choice.
nirmali: where a dominant narrative has emerged in India about the middle class city dwellers as primarily a consumer citizen whose identity and politics is based on their consumption practice. Their command over English
nirmali: has been one of the key aspect of middle class identity which assumed a completely new form in Post 19 nineties liberalization period. A certain kind of English has become a predecessor of entry into the new service industry. But access to this is severely restricted by one social position
nirmali: for school education. The imagery of the urban middle class consumer that tales with the idea of a quality ventures parent opting for education offered by the private schools themselves as a model of social mobility. For the rest. So the path to social mobility is different. For people located differentially in the urban space where often the
nirmali: idea of middle class is always used categorically against the idea of the urban poor, and the category of urban poor in many studies is often deployed with little analysis of the class, community and gender intersection which mark their license, mediate their relationship with the way school.
nirmali: This weakness is a product of a public discourse that obscures the political, economic context of school education and foregrounds, a market-based understanding of educational services. In the urban context.
nirmali: Much of the literature on parental choice of school is based on such a vision of an abstract individual consumer who makes an informed, rational sites on the school market scholars. based in England and in India, people like Christopher Wynch contextualized understanding of the phenomena of the expansion of private schools in hydrogen.
nirmali: They have argued that the regional, religious, and linguistic factors that constitute an urban context must need to be fleshed out. Further. it was pointed out that the use of that category of urban core of slum dwellers heights, the differentiated linguistic practices of community which might be reflected in their aspiration for low cost, private schools that run in English medium. It is widely believed that social mobility can be attained through schooling. In English.
nirmali: however, such beliefs do not necessarily materialize in reality due to a huge range of English medium schools that are available, and that have come up particularly the low cost school for poor that have come up to fill the camp.
nirmali: A huge challenge in this respect remains in mapping out the highly differentiated segment of private schools which cater to the differentially located urban learners in terms of class, community history and history of special locations. So what I have tried here is, I have tried to look at one particular
nirmali: neighborhood. The word, the Hindu word for neighborhood is Ojala. That's why I have described here as a Muhala school in the city of Paralysis. Residential segregation along community and cast lines has been a very distinctive feature of the own city space in Paris.
where historians have shown people like and others have shown that how city administration through town planning programs
nirmali: targeted the urban poor, and strive to create separate areas of habitation for them and categorize them in certain pockets of the city. Such special arrangements were meant to protect the relatively welly from the threats posed by the unsocial elements represented by the poor in the city.
nirmali: The town, planning mechanism, rather than addressing the problem, ended up catalyzing the core, and the resulting physical mapping of the city also reflected the social
nirmali: class differences. The areas marked for settlement of the poor had lower access to civic amenities. So, though the town planning of the city has gone through so many changes, different communities in the older parts of the city continue to live segregated life.
nirmali: The development plan of the city, which was submitted as recently as in 2,015, refer to the 3 distinct areas in the city, the old city, the central city, and the peripheral areas. The report also identified the old and central city as areas where
nirmali: the manufacturing and retail areas for traditional crafts are based. You you love very
nirmali: is it visible or not?
nirmali: Yeah.
nirmali: And this is where the city where, the school was located. The
nirmali: the this it
nirmali: she, you know, that area is the we were settlement identified. So these 2 kinds of maps I tried to use them together to One was related to the occupational setting, and one was about the
nirmali: current that so it was a kind of a a badly done job. Forgive me for that. But this helps us in locating the school which are located in the areas which are marked as the weaver settlement in this.
nirmali: and we are the traditional. And this is the area which is the half of the production of what is the
nirmali: known as Benarisi salvi, which has now changed from the hand gloom based weaving to that of our long list. We and has actually let because of this shifts in the economic policies and lack of social security measures. Many people have moved out from the profession, and that has impacted the way
nirmali: in my research. It came out very strongly that how it had. And it will I come to that very soon. How it has impacted the ships in the political economic structure and the changes in one particular sector which was considered as one of the largest employer of
nirmali: people living in these areas. How that uncertainty actually has affected the way they, their relationship with neighborhood school shapes.
nirmali: So in this area.
nirmali: yeah. So almost 50 of the manufacturing sector employment is actually coming from this particular treat.
nirmali: dB, apart from the reverse, these areas are inhabited by small scale traders that the businessmen and which workers from both Muslim and low Hindu
nirmali: low-pass hero groups. Given the history of town planning and the high density of population in the older pockets of the city, the distribution of the private schools in the city have a particular pattern and rank hierarchy, out of which only those private schools
nirmali: at proximate locations are accessible to people setting in these neighborhoods most of the high fee charging English medium private schools, catering to the upper classes.
nirmali: and the middle classes in the city are set up in the urban fringes because of the scarcity of landing the central areas of the city. Such schools are accessible to the bendier city residents only through private bus services. Most of the existing and older private schools in the central areas of the city have now been reduced to a secondary status in terms of social prestige among lower and middle income groups.
nirmali: So very briefly, I'll try to examine the case of the private school in its relationship with the families located in the nearby residential settlement. The case of this particular school is useful in eliminating how families from lower classes negotiate their location in a part in a particular setting and working their way towards attaining higher social prestige.
nirmali: So okay, coming to the school.
nirmali: Yes, very. So this is in in the among them.
nirmali: the the neighbor. This is located in a very busy kind of a commercial lane which is earlier a commercial lane now houses this property, which belong to a well, the Muslim elite from from the area.
nirmali: and is started by their family through a trust, and this is referred to by the neighboring population as the Semi English standard school of the Muhala by same English, because it's not a proper, it is not seen as the proper private English medium school unlike
nirmali: the ones which are considered more prestigious, and are located much further away in cities. It is a school which was in transition towards English medium. Now it is already a complete English medium school, but it had the aura that it would enable
nirmali: some kind of social mobility because of its so it it always advertised on its, you know, a full success in the High School School living examinations. It it it always advertised about. It's insistence on quality education through its programs. Brochure circulated
nirmali: So my discussion about the relationship of school and families located in the neighborhoods is based on 14 households only. It's a very close kind of a setting. It was done later self. Which of which 6 were engaged in the Saudi industry, which I talked about. 3 have 8
nirmali: transitions towards different trade. These include in sorry Muslims and past Hindus. There are 5 families from Service category who have migrated from rural areas of other parts of up and have come to settle in Varanasi with living in rented areas
nirmali: in terms of educational background. The men working in the service sector were better educated than the traders and the self employed ones, those who had the while the this difference became negligible in case of the mothers, as almost all of them were
only up to high school level, and had no
Quentin Ramond: exposure to higher education. So ships any.
nirmali: I very quickly come to the kind of ships that have seen. So there are ships from?
nirmali: I have told you about the ships already. So there is one aspect in case of India is, which is very important. Is that there, among other economic shifts, there are also cultural transitions related cultural transitions of move towards use of more standard languages which were not used in the older forms of work that were available.
nirmali: Now in in these families what we see is across the families in spite of the variation there are greater investments in schooling among the Muslims. Most older men and women were earlier exposed to Madras education, but the new the younger siblings are now moving towards more private secular kind of schools like the current one which I talked about, and the
nirmali: and the older ones continue to go into the older forms of school, asking the traders whose relationship with the older trade has been kind of
nirmali: being uncertain. They they. They are increasingly investing in education, and particularly for their sons in service sector families who already have very little resources in the In. In the city. They are even more invested in the ideas of mobility through education.
nirmali: A variety of educational strategies were employed to achieve the goal of shifting towards standard speech because it is considered as valuable in education and field, and it is not a common practice in the city, Varanasi, earlier to have been using the
nirmali: to use the standard language in this in at home and in workplace. So most women, pretty and women's labor, actually were employed more towards it, because the women from the lower middle class and informal working class groups work actively towards this board to make a distance from their you know, from their paternal families share, you know the the the languages that they use to what's more polished
nirmali: form of language which could earn them, or
nirmali: virtual capital this in terms of distance and proximity and their understanding. Apart from the physical aspect of distance. To this school, the cultural aspect of distance and proximity also worked in important ways where these kind of families, which had less exposure to schooling formal schooling and of schooling in office at in time actually preferred to
nirmali: get into schools which they considered as
nirmali: culturally more closer to them, a school which will give them the kind of certainty. So this was the
nirmali: case where the economic costs and the things were actually being qualified by the cultural idea of proximity. What are the schools that that can be seen as more approachable to attend the parent teacher meeting, etc.
nirmali: So, yes. Yeah, because I'm already running short of.
Quentin Ramond: yeah. Sorry.
nirmali: Yeah. Yeah. I'll just conclude that these shifts in the educational choices of the sorry These ships in the educational choices of the lower classes in are not just about monitoring investments in private schools, because this is what actually comes out in the major discussions about school choice in India.
nirmali: they also entail investment in symbolic resources, like the hope of learning English and the ability to use standard language in their everyday introduction and attention to such micro processes against the political and economic context of city like can strengthen our understanding of
nirmali: how special and social inequalities of urban life
nirmali: shape school choices of different.
nirmali: Thank you. I didn't mention the references, but I guess we don't have enough time for that.
Quentin Ramond: Okay, thank you very much.
Quentin Ramond: So I can. Here. We still have people in the room. So now we? We have a time for discussion
Quentin Ramond: and maybe we can start with people in the room in Melbourne.
Quentin Ramond: maybe if you have some question before we? I give the the floor to the finalist if they have question to each other, or I have also some question. But maybe we could start with the people in the room, in one or 6 in bedroom.
Quentin Ramond: There is one question.
Thank you for a great set of presentations. My name is Quintin Mayor, and I'm from the University of Melbourne. I have a a short but generic question for Peter, and then another question for Robert as well. Peter, just if you have reflections to share on your model based on the presentations that we've had. I'm thinking specifically about the role of, for example, religion, gender.
ethnicity obviously, and in class have been looked at a bit more in the Us. Context. But, for example, we have gender religion or language, for example, whether these there is a space for these in your model, or other reflections that you have based on the presentations.
And second question for Robert. who owns all the real estate in Berlin.
do, and and related to that, do the families that live, and therefore rent in Berlin
own property elsewhere? And is there in kind of an out migration out outside of the city all together, and because these families aspire to acquiring property and therefore raising children, but also owning property. Thank you.
Quentin Ramond: Okay, great. Thank you very much. I don't know if if you have, if you have another question in the room
Quentin Ramond: before giving the flow to Peter and Roberts. Or this is it for the moment?
Quentin Ramond: Yeah, this is it?
Yes, probably that.
Quentin Ramond: So please, Peter, go ahead.
Peter Rich: Yes, thank you for for that engaging question, and for being in our physical audience. I wish I could be there in person, I'm sure all of us do? So so the the general framework that we're introducing is very flexible in the sense that
Peter Rich: I didn't emphasize it in the presentation. But, part of what really matters is the cultural schema that people use to infer what a good school or a good neighborhood is, and in the Us. Context, there is a lot of work on
Peter Rich: how race and ethnicity informs the ways that people assess the quality of schools and neighborhoods. But this can broaden much, much more to think about the specific cultural context and the ways that
Peter Rich: things like xenophobia or religiosity or sort of religious histories inform how people assess quality and assign otherness to to schools and neighborhoods. And so I think, it plays a critical role in the sort of sorting and and selection processes for sure. so I didn't introduce a a formal model intentionally, because I think that
Peter Rich: we want
Peter Rich: to consider sort of context, specific ways that people are sorting and how that might affect local local relationships around around schools and neighborhoods. but but so so exactly to your point. This is, that's that's where we want it to go. Is that In any any context, we could be thinking about how these things all integrate together. in this sort of entangled way to produce the outcomes we see.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Okay? Then I can gonna try to ask the second question. I mean, that's a very big question. Who owns all the real estate in Berlin, or also important to other cities?
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: I mean, Berlin has way more State owned properties than other cities, maybe a little bit more comparable to Vienna and some other cities who really there, like the State, is still big provider of like housing, and also social housing and affordable housing. But this also changed over time. So there was like big waves of privatization, and so on. So this whole leadership of prioritization of the rental market exists
and
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: do the families. And but not right now it's a mixture of Free State, like big housing companies making a profit out of it, and like structures of like small lanes, maybe owning whatever 10 to 30 houses that they rent out and do the families who live? They have property outside mostly not.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: I mean, Germany is really just, not a country with like a lot of home ownerships, right, and especially Berlin, which has, like the history of half the city, being part of a Socialist country, until, like an 89
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: it was like the standards to rent, and also within, like a market that were relatively relaxed. You never saw, like the the necessity to to, to kind of get home ownership as like a financial thing, because you were just able to rent for an really affordable price for a long time. But this changed a lot, as it also changed in other cities which really,
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: yeah, kind of gives another structure for like in school choice, and so on. And even though I'm making this argument about rent. I think
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: it somehow also exists about home ownership and other places. I mean, maybe credit can say more about it. but it's not like restricted to rents overall, even though the garden structures like very specifically
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: so much strong rental sector in comparison to other settings.
Quentin Ramond: Great. Thank you, Roberts.
Quentin Ramond: do we have other questions from the room or not?
Quentin Ramond: No.
Quentin Ramond: okay. So maybe I can go with one or 2 questions that I have for our panelists to
Quentin Ramond: to keep on the discussion, and maybe then I can.
Quentin Ramond: And of course I give the flow to so that we can have a broader discussion. So I had a question. And basically for
Quentin Ramond: Peter, Robert Marto and Andrea.
Quentin Ramond: the first one is for Peter. This is a very classic question, but maybe I would like to hear you a little bit more on this point about the rise of a non neighborhood, private and public rise of of not neighborhood
Quentin Ramond: school options in the Us. And how this trend may threaten your
Quentin Ramond: model about the implication of neighborhood and and schools not not so much on the, on the the joint defects that both context may have on human outcomes, but more on the sorting process and the selection residential selection and process. So this is the first one, and the second one
Quentin Ramond: like to be a little bit more provocative. Maybe
Quentin Ramond: I am not sure that we should abandon the first question that you present at the beginning of your presentation of that
Quentin Ramond: which context matters most in terms of public policy. I think this is a difference, but it remains a key question, and maybe we can have a discussion about that. But
Quentin Ramond: maybe, like, for instance, I have the both
Quentin Ramond: look. Maybe in in Europe, for instance, we mostly find that when controlling for school characteristics the neighborhood has not very much influence on human outcomes. But, for instance, when we are in South America. Here you mostly find a additive effects of both neighborhoods and both schools, for instance. So maybe in terms when when we are doing international comparison because of the
Quentin Ramond: different context for the stage in the quality within the segregation, etc. But I think this is still a very good question, which is not we do. It does not contradict your integrated approach of labor.
Quentin Ramond: The first one for
Quentin Ramond: Marta and Andrea. I am very, very interested in your presentation, because actually, I'm carrying out a very similar search project on the impact of his. Listen, residential segregation, which is here in Chile, where this is not causing market. But this is really strong markets school policy, you know, in chile.
Quentin Ramond: And this is very interesting. But I would like maybe to push you a little bit more to elaborate on the mechanisms that you are trying to identify me because you are.
Quentin Ramond: Basically, if I'm not mistaken, you are,
Quentin Ramond: measuring the effect of residential segregation on school school choice at the school catchment area all over. If I'm not mistaken, and also in the effect of the neighboring school cagement area. With that I find this is a very good idea, but my question is, what is the relevant seat of school cagement area
Quentin Ramond: scale to test the effect of residential segregation. What are the mechanisms that are taking place in this case? Is, is there like neighbors interactions? Is there. Is it like the the school supply? Is it? What? What are the mechanism behind that? Because I understand
Quentin Ramond: in an institutional words, what does it mean? School catchment area. We also have school management areas in fans.
Quentin Ramond: But
Quentin Ramond: to test the effect of residential segregation, what is the mechanism? The hypothesis that you are making when testing the effect of residential segregation at this special scales, and not at smaller.
Quentin Ramond: And for Roberts
Quentin Ramond: I was very interested in the way you you. You frame your research question in your research, but maybe I would like to hear you a little bit more about
Quentin Ramond: the relative importance of residential mobility in school choice. Because this is the key question in all your presentation of the panel. And why in the in the German context, where you have so much, so so big rental markets, you know, and when you have identification without home ownership, which can.
Quentin Ramond: that sounds a little bit strange in the end. But, What is the relative importance of residential mobility in school service strategies? Is it really important? Given the rental market and the flexibility that offer this rental market, or is residential mobility rather
Quentin Ramond: a minor school strategy, you know, just just to to have a better idea of the importance of of this kind of things.
Quentin Ramond: and that's it for the moment. That's the most
I am sorry to interrupt. If the speakers can quickly answer for like 2Â min, 1, 2Â min, then it will be great. Thank you.
Peter Rich: I'll say really briefly, Quinton, thank you for these questions.
Peter Rich: I agree that the which matters more question,
Peter Rich: is important, but it's very context, specific and contingent, which are sort of question hinted into that. And that's certainly our point is that there's tends to be a general generalized claim at getting at this. And that's really what's problematic. when it's devoid of context. and
Peter Rich: I have a several projects on school choice in the in the Us. Where it reduces how people are are evaluating neighborhoods, that it weakens the link and actually, segregation goes down a little bit, but that is still part of the overall in main arrangement of how this all works. So I want to be brief so that others can respond. But I'm happy to talk more. Thanks.
Marta: Oh. title
Marta: about okay. well, okay, we haven't used the the catchment, Harriet, because basically, it's one hub, the smaller unit we have
Marta: in which we can have for a reliable data on the social economic composition of the neighborhood. And and basically, since each catchment area is related to a school.
Marta: when and when parents decide to move from one school to another, they they actually decide also to move from one catchment area to another. So I don't know if I if I get, if if I understood really well in your question, but it's a matter of
Marta: the relation between the school and and the area. So the neighborhood and and and and the fact that actually, when when parents are looking for homogeneity, they they look at school, and they look at the neighborhood as well. So they move into another catchment area
Marta: because of the futures of the other catchment area. And in our hypothesis also because they think they mirror the futures of the school.
Marta: I don't know if I answer your question.
Quentin Ramond: Yes, yes, yes, yes, you have to answer the question. I understand. The role of the school catchment area is in in allocating children between different schools. But my question, like, if I, if I reformulate the question, is that basically what you are are trying to do, which is very interesting, is to try to identify neighborhood effect on school choices. Right?
Quentin Ramond: And my question is, is a relevant neighborhood
Quentin Ramond: in this sense, is it is it at this specific scale that relevant interactions will occur. And that can explain school choice process, you know.
Marta: Okay, yeah. And then, because in the place of in the case of Milan there is a smaller unit that is the census track
Marta: that's cool. we can possibly consider.
Andrea Parma: But there are a lot of mythological implication about that, and catchmentaria is already at a a good scale. I I wouldn't say the excellent one, but it's a already a good scale. We started with the but we what I'm convinced that because the reasoning you were mentioning. So we went to catch Metadata because we were a bit smaller. Yes, the Atl would be
Andrea Parma: that are different from the that are different from the Nhs. some of but we don't have. we are waiting for new data, because the data, since it's a truck to lever, it is 2,011. It's too old. And so we're I mean, they did the same. For 2 years they go, but there we have not
they. They are not ready to yet that the sense of struck the lever. So we were waiting for that because of 10 years. That also.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Okay, just many. Very quickly. Before I kind of answer your question, Quentin, above. But for Andrea and Marta
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: and what I wanted in your survey. Did you actually measure like where the kids ended up? At which school, or is it just the wish for the decision, because I wasn't that sure like, at which
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: point or time point you, you you kind of caught the parents in your survey, and if this was mixed that you measured like. Okay, my child ended up at the school, or I just wanted to send it there. But maybe I do not succeed because of whatever reasons, short in the school places, and so on.
Marta: We ask that they they enroll online. So we ask them, which is their choice.
Marta: then we didn't verify if the children end up in that school. But since they, the the residential criteria, is almost never used in Milan.
Marta: okay, actually, it's really likely that they end up in the school they have chosen. They have chosen.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: Okay. But it could be that actually, some of the effects that you're describing are even maybe stronger if you
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: would have the data for like, where the kids ended up.
Marta: Yeah.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: okay. okay, question about the relative importance of residential mobility and school. Chester is in, like in the context where we have a strong rental market. And
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: I mean.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: yeah, good question. Of course, you do not have the exact same mechanism that exist somewhere else in terms of you have to pay like a very high premium for different in, in housing prices for some catchment areas. But of course, the differentiation was always like strongly correlated also with like school outcomes. And you can. You can also show this with permanent and
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: I mean, I would love to look back at like the last 30 years, let's say, in burden. It's only possible until 2,007, because then they just started to connect this kind of data. But you can really see within this timeframe that the mobility patterns changed
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: that before, like the like very strong.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: especially from high ses families, mobility patterns to certain neighborhoods where they are specific schools which now kind of changed over time, even though it's like a rental segment. And of course, I mean, maybe one of the assumptions behind us that, for example, the the time of how long you live there is different in like home ownership markets compared to rental markets.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: But I would kind of argue that it's the case, maybe for some demographic groups, but not that much for, like young families with children, I mean, you really do not want them to change the schools all the time. So you make like a long term decision. Right before most of the time the first child approaches school age.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: and then, even in a rental market like Berlin, you try to stay put for some time to not like, yeah.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: get too much trouble into your children's life.
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: but yeah, this ability to move before children. First school age
Robert Vief - Humboldt-University Berlin: really changed.
Quentin Ramond: That's really interesting, because in France what I identify with in my previous work was that
Quentin Ramond: where, in front of you, you have much more homage like people.
Quentin Ramond: and explicitly decide to rent, to gain access to like privileged areas with very good schools, so that this is like another position that the rental market has in the residential mobility and scheduled bosses. Anyway.
Quentin Ramond: Do we have more questions from the room or from the panelists? Maybe we can take 5Â min more now.
Oh, yeah, I'm so sorry if I can grant you all the time I will. But unfortunately we have to like vacate the room, because this is going to be used soon. So yeah, I mean.
very good job you did. Well, so congratulations quinine for this wonderful session, and we are ready to go. So let's give them a round of applause. Yeah, you can see we have a very lively audience here. You have a big room, very cosy. So thank you so much for yeah. Presenting to
good job and enjoy the rest of the the conference. Co-tier sessions.
Thank you. Current team.