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If there's people on Zoom, hello and welcome. Sorry that you are just listening to me managing some tech.

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It's 3 29 so I'm gonna get us started. My name is Rosie Kleish order.

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I am sharing this session on religion in Oceania and I'm gonna start us by acknowledging country for everyone in the room.

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So on behalf of all of us gathered I'd like to pay respect to the spirit of country here in Naom where we're meeting and I acknowledge past and present Culin Nation Rundry Warring as the sovereign people here.

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The cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote numb Aboriginal law, customs, custodianship, responsibilities for country and the people that country continues to sustain generation after generation and into the future for all of us.

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I recognise the important contribution that First Nations thinkers have made and are making to sociology, including challenging dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all First Nations delegates in the room today and in the conference more broadly for their contributions to knowledge and discipline.

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As we are now at 3 30, I am going to invite our first speaker, Adam Possumi to come and start our session for us today.

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Thank you, Rosie and hello everyone.

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You have to admit that this research has been an accidental one. Before COVID, I traveled to Fiji on university business.

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And I discovered something of great interest as a researcher on my first visit to this country. Well, I'm now more involved.

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University administration. I'm proud to say. In front of this gathering that it's impossible to take out the sociologist of.

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That said, what I discovered was thin. Good original. And to make this research possible I inverted gear of pressure Dustin an anthropologist with a specialist on Fiji and Kathleen Oppenheimer, an anthropologist with especially some pentecostalism and Incidentally, holy

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water.

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Let me tell you how this started. I was on the plane. And before landing in Fiji as with all the other travellers.

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I was provided with a passenger Aravel card as part of B All the chicks. Certainly. There's nothing too out of the ordinary.

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When it comes to the information being requested. Except on the final page. Between the question asking travelers if they have visited any agricultural areas.

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And whether they are transporting human remains. The trailer says, do you have in your position, holy water.

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This is highlighted.

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This is indeed bound. To spark the interests of any scholar of religion and society. Who decides what makes water holy?

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And how can such a conceptualization be reconciled with it being a biosecurity risk?

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Is this question targeted at one specific phase? Is then underground trade in holy water flooding the feeding faith market.

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While the literature has been dealing with the communication of religion and religious things, the issue about the contemporary import export of material religion is a new topic era.

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This research on migration and religion And the transport of religious people across countries. However, walk on the cross border transportation of religious things such as holy water is difficult to find.

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Literature on the sacred and miracle walking properties of holy water does not include any discussion of whole border security controls.

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The international circulation of holy water. And more generally spiritual things. We started this research using this case study as an exploration of the first contemporary cross-border circulation of spiritual things.

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As dispersed, a presentation will highlight, this led to more difficulties.

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Trying to find more information on this is not an easy task. When I visited this country in 2,019 I could not resist asking a custom officer as to why one has to declare holy water.

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I quickly discovered that a custom officer is trying to ask questions. Not answer them. I had to enter the country to be allowed to do my university business and decided to stop the conversation.

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Unfortunately, I had to stop being a sociologist of religion to prevent myself from being the subject of a border control investigation.

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The Arab old card in Fiji is clear about its focus on holy water instead of broader type of water that could be a biosecurity risk.

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Some research, some recent research, backup, indeed this link between holy water and biosecurity risk.

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Some water from Holy Springs do not meet the requirements of certain countries drinking water regulations. Is a potential source of illness.

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There have indeed been cases of infections in law in France, temples in Thailand and in civil Spain.

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The literature does advocates for the management of water quality of these places of pilgrimage.

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Digging on the internet. Giving no Fijian official could provide an answer about where this question on the landing card came from.

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One can find an interesting document proposed by the government of Fiji. On the thirtieth of May, the nineteenth 74 to the regional office for the Western Pacific form the World Health Organization.

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During that time when there was a high transmission of cholera to the South Pacific from the Middle East, the documents supported pilgrims transporting holy water into Fiji.

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But as long as it was sterile and free from cholera and taffy germs.

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I stayed in on the second page of the document that we find and I quote some unnecessary confusion was caused when some pilgrims brought in holy water from endemic eras and this was implanted for testing before release and of course Good pilgrims from where?

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From Mecca in the Middle East. Where Pilgrims purchased the globally served after Zamzam water.

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Or from the river Kanges. The Fiji representative stated that Fiji and not yet encounter any cases of cholera But what's preempting?

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Any danger, especially since Fiji is regarded as the gateway to the southern islands of the Pacific.

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He also underlined that the document was not particular with regards to the origin of the holy water. Further I admitted that it's often difficult to identify the provenance of the holy water.

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As pilgrims are not able to provide a certificate of authenticity. The committee decided not to adapt any resolution on this discussion.

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One question is whether the situation is too important in Fiji today. A recent report from the global test force on colora control from 2,017 listed 47 countries.

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That are affected by this disease today. And Fiji is not one of them. Further, although the report makes mention of international collaboration, it does not make reference to the importance of border controls and water.

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Knowing the history and current situation of potential religious and ethnic conflict in Fiji, we were keen on finding robust data to understand any potential tension.

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As this importation of holy water could have targeted a specific ethnic group. But we couldn't get any data even to insinuate this.

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For this reason within even mention this possibility in our paper. Paper has been published and I've got a few copies available on the front share if you want to get a copy after this talk.

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It was quite interesting that many of the officials were Reach out that we reach out to we're wondering why we were interested in finding more about this issue but they never prevailed us with an answer.

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Now let's move to the export. Of heating water from Fiji. I just spoke to you about the import at his Explorer.

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In New Zealand. We have discovered a similar issue, but the focus is specifically on miracle water from Fiji.

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So I mean from the ministry from primary industries from New Zealand on Facebook have recently been posted. Fiji exports of healing slash miracle water.

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Is a risk of biosecurity risk at and it may contain contaminants.

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In the New Zealand era. One of the managers of the Ministry for Primary Industries has been quoted as say and I quote or concern is on whether the healing properties are real or not.

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But whether it contains waterborne diseases that could harm New Zealand's fresh water aquaculture and natural environment.

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The locals may call it miracle water. But it is untreated so it poses a biosecurity risk to New Zealand and of course

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One of the comments in the Facebook post makes reference to a helpful New Zealand newspaper article. That next reference to miracle water from the natural spring of a Fijian village.

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Natasha Tav, 2 h drive from Silver. That is regarded as the Lord. Of the Pacific.

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It is said to cure everything from contract harvest to blindness but poses a biosecurity risk.

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To New Zealand's freshwater aquaculture and natural environment. If you untreated.

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The journalist claims that people collect water from this village and are shipped around the world. On the black market.

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In Fiji water bottles. This has raised some suspicion from customs officials as between 2,016 and 2,017.

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New Zealand Customs stopped more than 500 people crossing the border carrying this bottles for relatives and friends.

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Who were too ill to travel to the Fijian village.

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So both Fiji and New Zealand have raised the borders against the import of threatening risk. Risky holy or healing water.

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While we can only extrapolate for the physics tails or hypotheses that their borders were raised to prevent the spread of cholera.

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But why is it still present and not found in any of the recent documents that we consulted on border control and disease surveillance.

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Contrary to other countries like New Zealand, which will dilute holy water in its product category, Fiji is explicit.

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About the religiousness of this water. In this sense, to secularize the import of this roses thing.

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It has also sacrifice. It's territorial boulder. But explicitly controlling its importation.

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New Zealand, on the contrary. Does not address the velocity of this water at all. And his only concern of potential biohazard.

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New Zealand is currently dealing with a specific issue that has emerged in Fiji due to the recent appearance of miracle water.

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The case in Fiji, however, seems to deal with an ancient issue that has remained on the arable card.

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And has disappeared from official documents.

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We have theorized in the article of findings following the work of David Martin. Nonlinear process of secularization and secularization.

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As many of you will know we are not moving from the sacred to the secular but rather following back and forth movements.

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Depending on place and time. This paper shows that the fission borders compared to the New Zealander one are mentioning the sacrarization.

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Making reference to holy water could simply mean that the use and circulation of such special things is taking for granted in Fiji.

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And his Bjorn question. This paper is only the start of an exploration of the imported sport of Russia's things and how borders are control to secularize them and of course more research needs to be done.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. Adam and thank you for being on time and I'd like to invite Stephen Reed to speak to us on time and I'd like to invite Stephen Reed to speak to us on understanding Catholics to speak to us on understanding Catholics in Australia.

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Good afternoon. Everyone, my name is Stephen Reed and I'm a researcher with the National Center for Pastoral Research.

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I'll center is an agency of the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference and our main aim is to assist the Catholic Church in Australia at all levels in understanding the cultural, social and personal dimensions of religion.

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In the change in contemporary context. To do this we undertake numerous social research projects as well as in-house research.

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The one I want to talk to you about today is a project we call the National Catholic Census Project.

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Before I do that though, I want to give you a very brief background to the Australian census. The first national census was carried out in 1,911, although the first simultaneous population counts of all the colonies were carried out in, 1,888, 1,881,

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sorry. In the early in the mid 1,009 hundreds The census was carried out in each decade until 1,961 when it was then carried out every 5 years.

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With the most recent one undertaken in 2,021. So in Australia, we're very fortunate to have updated data regularly.

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Aspect of our census that some other countries don't have is that includes an optional question on religion which has been asked in every census.

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The optional nature of the question I think is a bit of a positive quirk in that it actually usually receives a very high response rate.

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So in 2,021 for instance, just 7% of Australians did not answer. The religion question and many of those did not answer many of the other questions on the census form either.

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It's an interesting quirk of Australians too, I think, that if you demand that Australians do something They may not, but if you say that it's an optional to do it, then they might just do it.

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So as a social researcher, I consider where a pretty lucky country. Here in Australia. The National Catholic Census Project began for the 1,991 census here in the Catholic Archdiocese of Melbourne.

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So the 2,021 census is the seventh census covered by the project and I think the continuity of the project in that time can largely be attributed to the foundation director who is here with us Dr Bob Dixon who envisaged this project right from the start and who kept it going.

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Now in that time from a research perspective There have been numerous changes. One of which is the format of the data we obtain.

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I remember when I did my postgraduate studies at Monash University, there's a plug for one of the sponsors of the Congress.

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When I wanted to look at the census data, I had to go up to the research office, walk up the stairs to the research office to obtain a couple of CD ROMs, then take them down to the computer lab and analyze the data usually using SPSS.

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Since then we've had advances in the technology which allow us now to download our own customized tables from the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

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ABS for short from their website and most of which is available free of charge to the public.

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The National Catholic Census Project is based around a 5 yearly cycle, although work on the project commences well before the census night which is usually a Tuesday night sometime in August of the year.

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And then for another at least another 18 months after the census started is released. And then, which is usually about 9 months after the census night.

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So it's a significant timeline we're dealing with in the project. And a significant part of the initial planning relates to updating geographical boundaries.

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The Catholic Church in Australia has around 1,300 parishes scattered around across 28 geographical diocese.

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Those 1,300 parishes cover the entire geographical area of Australia, including some territories as far away as the Norfolk Isle.

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Christmas Island in the Cocoa Killing Islands. The ABS counts reports down to a small geographical area of around a couple of 100 households known as a statistical area one, an SA one, of which there's about 64,000 of those.

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That cover the entirety of Australia. And so basically what is required of our team is to fit 64,000 Sa ones.

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Into 1,300 parishes which roughly equates to around 49. Say one for each parish.

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To do that we use a combination of online mapping tools. An analysis of previous year's census boundaries, but we also very much rely on a personnel in each of those 28 diocese.

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Who have considerable local knowledge. Of their parishes and their community. So imagine it's a bit like completing or having a large community scattered around Australia that's completing a huge 64,000 piece jigsaw puzzle every 5 years.

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After the census data is released and the geographical boundaries are finalised The monumental task and it is that of creating the customized tables then downloading, cleaning, calculating, formatting the data begins.

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We also do order some specialized tables from the ABS that is not available from their public website and these relate to family and household data.

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Crossed with the religion variable so we can report on Catholic families and Catholic households. So who are we reporting on?

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In these profiles that we're creating.

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Although some of the data in the profiles refers to the general population, the total population, The majority of the data relates to those who self identified as Catholic on the census form up on the screen there.

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The census form simply arts as you can see what is the person's religion. And the top 10 responses from the previous census 5 years earlier are listed followed by an other open-ended text response.

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So if an individual considered themselves to be Catholic or Roman Catholic or Western Catholic they would select and take the box Catholic.

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Is the individual identified with another Catholic group such as an Eastern right group, the Chaldean Catholic group Marctia, they would have been encouraged by their bishop.

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To write in or type in their response at the bottom of the form.

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The end result after months and months of work is firstly a national social profile of the Catholic community in Australia.

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Then some months later, this 28 individual diocesan social profiles are released. And then usually months after that are some 1,300 parish social profiles.

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These 28 page reports present the relevant census data in a combination of tables and graphs along with some textual commentary and some reflective questions as well.

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And now it's here I'll kill 2 birds with one stone and show you some national results pertaining to the Catholic community.

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From the 2021 census. Whilst also providing some example. From the pages of the social profiles.

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So the profiles start with a snapshot. Of the local Catholic community. In this example at the national level.

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And shows that from, except for an example, from a total population of 25.4 million.

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One in 5 individuals identified as Catholic in 2,021, so 20% of the population.

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The snapshot also tells us amongst other things that there were just under 2 million Catholic families, that is families where one or more persons ticked the box Catholic on the census form.

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The snapshot is followed by some time change data showing changes over time since 1996. And from that table on the screen you'll notice that the number of Catholics grew in every census up until, 2,016 when it declined for the first time ever and then again in a decline in 2,020

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one. Now your keen eyes may also notice that the age profile on the second and third lines of the Catholic community in Australia is getting older.

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Or it may notice that the proportion of Catholics born in non English speaking countries continues to rise. In 2021 21.4% of Catholics were born in a country where the main language is not English.

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After the time change table, then there are then summary tables covering 8 different key demographic areas. Populations to show in table one there.

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Disability and caring, occupation and employment, ethnicity and indigenous status, education, marital status, families and finally households.

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The remaining other half roughly of each profile's pages So the main detailed statistics on the various Catholic topics, sorry, the various census topics relevant to Catholic parishes or Catholic schools or social services or other Catholic agencies.

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So here is an example of the religious affiliation profile pages of profile graph showing the made religious and non-religious groups.

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And below the graph there or aside to the graph is a detailed table of religion by age.

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Well the initial pages of the the profile each profile provide a quick and easy reference guide. The detailed pages as you can see allow for a much more in-depth analysis and reflect one would hope.

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On the situation in each. Of the communities. I've shown examples from the 2,021 national profile because the diocesan profiles from 2,021 are still a few weeks away from being finalized and then the parish profiles will be ready, hopefully later on in the year.

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Now there's a few small differences between the national diocesan and the parish profiles.

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In that we provide some specific text relevant to the individual most likely to be utilizing that information. So for example we might ask what we do ask, the reader of a parish social profile.

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For instance, how the changes in employment and labor force within their local parish community impacts the life within their church community within parish community.

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And one additional advantage of having so much more access to so much census data and available for the local areas.

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Is that agencies such as ours can combine their own data with the data in the social profiles. Our census often combines data from the census with data from other sources.

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To provide a much detailed a picture of the Catholic community in Australia. In this example up on the screen, we've used 3, 2,016 data sources to show mass attendance rate.

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By by age using a simple well Hopefully it looks a simple bar chart. The chart is actually anything but simple to create.

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Now the profiles are available to the general public at no charge via our website. However, we do print and post profiles to every single parish and to every bishop.

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In each of those diocese. Although that adds quite a considerable cost to the overall project budget, we've found that actually physically having a hard copy is a much more likely to be opened and utilised than if we were to send digital copies or an email.

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So we've become a much more paperless society and yet we're still with as many areas where we still want.

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Hard copies of things. So who are these profiles of interest to as I've previously noted the data in these profiles contain information that's specifically relevant to I would say most Catholic agencies as I've alluded to, we have information on All of those topics covered on the screen there.

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So pretty much any Catholic organisation would find some of that information useful. If a particular agency cannot find any data of relevance in the profile then I'd perhaps question whether they should really be involved in their business or really should call them self Catholic.

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To conclude, I'd like to just return to the National Centre for Pastoral Research.

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As my main mission which is to assist the Catholic Church at all levels. To understand the changing religious landscape in Australia today.

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The National Catholic Census Project. Provides the resources by which personnel at all levels of the church in Australia can understand their local communities past.

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I can acknowledge the present realities that exist. But importantly, they can also plan for the future. Thank you.

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By the way, I do have a couple of copies of the national profile if anyone would like it. Just 5, so see me after.

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Thank you, Stephen. I'd like to invite Mark Jennings to come and give Alzheimer's presentation.

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Good afternoon. In addition to the acknowledgements of the local traditional owners. I'd like to acknowledge that I live in work and completed the research that I'm presenting from today.

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On the unseeded lands of the Wuja Kunga people.

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So, Pentecostal charismatic Christianity here after PCC, just for brevity's sake.

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Is a form of Christianity which puts a high premium on personal religious experience and participation. Very good breakdown of the recent census which I didn't know was happening so this is a few steps that will be familiar.

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According to the 2,021 census, around 1% of Australians identify as PCC or really pentecostal.

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Although as the late great Gary Baumer and Anna Halifax have demonstrated through their analysis.

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Of the religion statistics in the 2,016 census. This number is much more likely to be somewhere around 4%.

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Probably more germane to this presentation. As I started with, it's It's a faith that puts a high premium on participation.

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There's only of the people who identify as broadly Christian in Australia. Pentecostals are actually according to the National Church Life Survey second only to the far more numerous Catholics.

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In, church attendance. So in other words, on any given Sunday, there's gonna be more Pentecostals.

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And not just on Sunday as I'll talk about. But all through the wake, depending on the kind of church they're going to, than any other group except the Catholics.

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The photo is of well it's the location of what's often regarded as the first. And a castle church in Australia, Good News Hall here in Melbourne.

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That's when we're still there. So, to this research in 2,015 I initiated the 2 different worlds project to discover and tell the stories.

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Of LGBT IQA plus people who participate in or formally participate in Australian PCC churches.

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And it was my privilege. To conduct interviews with individuals who expressed a deep commitment. To their faith, former or present.

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And their involvement in their religious communities. As well as the loss many experienced when they came out and typically had to leave those communities behind.

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All who spoke to me related experiences of conflict between the sexuality of gender identity and the typically conservative norms of most PCC churches.

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As researchers resulted in a number of published outputs, most notably the 2,023 monograph happy LGBTQ plus experiences of Australian pentecostal charismatic Christian churches published by PAL Grove Macmillan.

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There's the second plug, one of the sponsors. Through analysis, drawing on the discursive approach to sexuality initiated by Michelle Facot and augmented and applied to gender by Judith Butler.

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What a emerged is what I call a discursive death match between those holding to a conservative position that heteronormativity is mandated for Christians and deviations are sinful and need to be suppressed, which represents the majority of PCC leaders and participants.

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And those maintaining that diverse sexuality and gender identity are inherent, immutable, and are compatible with Christian faith, which represents like most LGBT people themselves I spoke to.

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As well as their allies. So yeah, have a read any way you can, the hero understand.

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For today, the question I address in this presentation is as I indicated in the abstract, why would LGBTI QA plus people remain committed to communities to typically exclude them or in the case of those who left, why did they stay as long as they did?

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Drawing on the analysis contained in the monograph, I argue that sociology can offer one answer, particularly drawing on the sociologist Lewis Cose's greedy institutions.

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That's Lewis. No longer with us. Cosa argued that in modern societies, individuals genuinely occupy a web of group affiliations requiring the commitment of time and energy.

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For example, an individual may maintain a job but some simultaneously enjoy other interests and affiliations in private life such as family or church.

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In free societies, these affiliations are usually patented and channeled through normative regulations and preferences.

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Making life balance possible at least. Theory. The greedy institutions throw off this balance by making high claims on individual commitment.

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Limiting time and energy available for other affiliations. Typically greedy institutions do not need to coerce this probably needs to be nuanced that claim a little bit but anyway we'll come to that hopefully rather they leverage a higher claim.

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A reward eagerly valued by participants. To quote Kosa, greedy institutions as you can see on the screen.

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Aim at maximizing assent to their styles of life by peering hotly desirable to participants.

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Reading institutions are also omnivorous, meaning that they absorb time and energy from several other affiliations.

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So involvement in a greedy institution may divert time and energy from several other affiliations, not work or family, but work and family.

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For example. This may mean that an individual's connections to other affiliations, institutions, other people are weakened because of a lack of time, energy or resources to commit to them.

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And one final point, Cosa argued that one form of greedy institution, the sect, is characterized by a morality of extremes where in the mores and norms within the community differ sharply from the wider society.

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Complete allegiance to this morality is typically the only permissible option as tolerance of diverse views is not regarded.

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Okay, so we know a little bit about greedy institutions. Let's move to the stories of participants.

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So in happy, I argue that PCC churches exhibit several of the characteristics of greedy institutions.

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Most easily, demonstrated informants reported very high involvement in their PCC churches as I sort of indicated at the beginning, not just attendance but involvement.

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So Sasha demonstrates this extent of his church's monopoly on his time. My whole life was the 2 suburbs that surrounded the church.

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That was the only place I would drive. I would never go into other places. So not just I guess what we might call such as religious life, whatever that means, but also social life was kind of dominated by by his involvement in the church.

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Similarly, and your schedule just exhausts me even looking at it and reading it, as a worship team leader his involvement extended beyond Sunday.

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I get up at 6 30 every Sunday. Church at 7. I was on the worship team. Church started at 10.

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We had practice from 7 a. M. Till 9 30 and I was a leader so throughout the week emailing people in the church with their vocal parts prayers church would go from 10 to 12 we'd have lunch together we'd have Bible study from 4 to 6 pm which would go to 8 pm that was just

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sunday So we had Bible study on Wednesday, then every morning I'd read a devotional.

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And I pray every night. And this is voluntary. This is not paid participation. Similarly, Sage describes well the total commitment of serving in multiple roles in her former PCC church.

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So she says, I was a core member of the team. I was there week in, week out and never took a week off, never went away, never did anything else.

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It just rocked up to every meeting I was at church maybe 4 or 5 days a week. I was there on Sunday mornings from 6 in the morning until 9 or so at night barely leave to get lunch I was just part of the team I just served my guts at you know I felt that was what God had called me to

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do. So Sayagyi's recollections point to the reasons many participants give for their high level of involvement, their strong faith in God.

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PCC is also a faith that puts a premium on God's personal empowerment and communication demonstrated again in Stage's belief that her stratospheric level of involvement with service to God, what God had called me to do.

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However, Sage and many other participants also talked at length about the rich experience of community they found and often subsequently lost.

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In their PCC churches. And so this is Sage talking about the grief of leaving, the loss what they've lost.

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Loss of family, loss of connection. I just had so many mates 12 years I lived there. I built up 12 years of mates to 12 years of history and future as well.

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12 years of memory and stuff with all sorts of people and I just had such a great family connection.

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It was really strong. I feel like there's never ever been a time in my life and possibly never will be again when I felt so strongly connected.

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And this is again a community that stage participated heavily in and a community where their LGBTQ Status could not be recognized.

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To say to this extraordinarily valuable community disappeared when she came out. For others, their community embraced them when they were willing to observe what is colloquially known as the line are usually the requirement to remain celibate.

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For those like Morgan who had in the past rejected his sexuality so he he'd committed to the line and said okay I know that I'm gay but I'm not going to act on that sexuality because I don't believe that I can.

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So that's what I mean by the line. When he decided that's he wasn't prepared to live that way anymore.

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The consequences were instant and final. So this is from Morgan. At the same time I pretty much lost my whole support network of other Christians, some really close friends who before were fine with me.

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When I was trying to fight being gay, so that's when he was observing the line. When I said, I think it's fine being gay.

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Some of them even said, look, we can't be friends with you anymore because the Bible says Do not associate with the sexually immoral.

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And that was hard and I felt really hurt and abandoned. By the church. So being completely cut out, never contacted again is arguably explained by the morality of extremes characteristic of greedy institutions which require total commitment.

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Divergence being perceived as dangerous and disloyal and I guess this is where the earlier claim about about not these institutions not coercing this high level of involvement needs to be nuanced of course because there's actually some pretty severe consequences not just loss of community but because religion's involved there's a few other I guess

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eternal consequences potentially involved. So, in conclusion, returning to our original question, why do LGBTQ plus people participate in PCC churches which tend to exclude them.

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Green institutions offer one answer and as I'm saying, there's a few other things that we need to consider.

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So it's part of the answer perhaps. PCC churches leverage a higher claim to affiliation to which participants respond with very high levels of participation and are rewarded by a rich experience of community and the belief that they're serving God.

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The costs can be high, however, and are disproportionately borne by LGBTQ A plus people of faith, not primarily borne by the communities they devote so much of their time, energy and lives to.

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PCC churches as greedy institutions tend to hold to a version of Kos's morality of extremes represented by practices such as the line as I explained before requiring LGBTQ A plus people to remain celibate.

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Or otherwise not act upon their sexuality or gender identity, which is at odds with the norms of wider Australian society, hence the morality of extremes positive.

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Violation of these norms typically when LGBTQ people come out and refuse to continue to be subject to the line usually means being totally and instantly cut off.

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Thanks for your time. I'll look forward to your questions and comments afterwards. Thank you.

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Thank you Mark for taking us through the experiences of LGBTQ participants in and out of their greedy churches of LGBTQ participants in and out of their greedy churches.

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I'm now going to invite Manhattan and out of their greedy churches. I'm now going to invite Manushi churches.

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I'm now going to invite Menushi. I'm now going to invite Manush Lajavati to come and speak to us about the experiences of Muslims

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And try to put these people together.

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Thank you very much for coming and listening to my presentation. Actually, my name is Mehranush and in my PhD I was working on the rule of the Imams in Muslim community in Sydney.

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And

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My method that I used was the most important one was interview with imams face to face. And then as an insider, participant.

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The second one was observation and also was questionary from the congregation of the community. Actually from my interview and analysis I categorized imams to 4 type The first is a reformer.

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The second is Bridge Builder. The second is Traditional as you see. And the last one is the imams or the leader of the community.

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With very limited maneuverability for integration to the society. Actually I started my PhD by General of the Rule of the Imam.

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But after a while in second stage of my PhD because of the because of the response of the participant.

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The most little bit narrow to the role of the imams. For integration to the wider society.

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I'm explaining the first a type of imam as a reformer. Actually in interview I realized that some of the imams a day.

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Want to change some of the Sharillo or some of them. Thinks that doesn't damage the principle of the religion.

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And they actually They heavily understood. That also the Sharia comes from the Grand Scholar. Whatever comes at the sherry as an Islamic law for imams in Sydney around the Western country, they comes from Grand Scholar.

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Who they say something and they have to follow and then they realize this type of amount they realize some of these constitution or whatever you call it law doesn't work here.

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This was the thing that I realized some of the imams say, okay, it's not a maybe good, good word, but this Islam comes here with the knowledge or whatever is not workable here.

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In the society of Australia. And.

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Also, they founded here Muslim in the community. I mean the Imam said there is more ritual and less spirituality.

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So in interview that I found in my data these type of imam criticize leadership criticized themselves, criticized colleagues and also they criticized the is long which exists in the community.

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For example, the lack of the good leadership was there. A theme that I found in so many of the They thought that I had it or there is no vision in leadership or they said unfortunately they didn't train for this community here and also they criticized of the Islam some of them said it's 1,400 years ago something told

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us and I have to I have to say to our congregation here and doesn't work.

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They criticize even the Islam as you can see for example Sheikh Jalal said so many things are not as Islamic in our community.

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They are cultural and they have no Islamic reference. Because of the limitation of the time I don't read the data but as you can see The data shows that even they criticize the Islam that people here Muslim practice.

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The other thing that the reformer leader they emphasize, so okay, sorry, say okay we cannot and we cannot Continue with this kind of practice so we try to less practice and more spirituality, the core of the religion.

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Even some practice of Buddhism or some of them, one of the imam told me doesn't matter as long as they're trying to have more spirituality, that's okay.

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We don't, we cannot emphasize to the Islamic practice now for the young people in our community.

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The other thing that was Very important by mention it in the beginning that high the kind of leadership a style, a structure that everything comes from overseas.

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So they cannot be a reformer actually. They cannot change any big things because they know just there is a little thing that they can do it.

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But I call them reformer because they are thinking about it and they are trying to do something. As an example, as an example, for example, usually in the Muslim community, any donation has to go to overseas to Muslim country for poor people.

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One of the imam, for example, said Muslim can have donation here and we give it to the homeless people in Australia.

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This was a very big change for them that they can change little bit the little bit the Islamic law here.

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The second type of a that And I told you was the rich buildle leaders or call them bridge builder leaders.

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They are different with the reform a little bit because they don't want change this long. They don't want the changes Islam existed here.

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They don't criticize themselves. They don't do anything with the grand scholar over there.

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With this Islam, they can have connection with other community or their religion, other organization. In Australia. They can build a bridge with this in information, everything they have in knowledge, in whatever the law they can have connection with the wider society.

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The most important things for them is They understand the generational gap between them and youth people. They are trying to have so many activities for young people, swimming pools, whatever you think it.

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They have champ, they have champagne with catalytic even they put Christmas tree in their mosque they're trying to have connection with other community.

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They are actually very open-minded. They have so many organization, they help Muslim people, they arrive to Australia, they have connection with so niche other sector.

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They can make a breach. And the other thing from these leaders, they are cultural pluralism. I mean social polarism.

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They believe that they can be a Muslim and they can be a friend with other communists. They can have so they can find some common words between each other.

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For example, chef maybe Habib. Emphasised to the unity. Unity for him was very important maybe 25 min he talked about the unity between Muslim and Christianity, Islam, mosque and church and so many things.

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So to these types, reformer and bridge builder imams actually in the language of Bordeaux I can say that the habitats and the culture or social religious capital they bring in the field of Australia for the practice.

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They realised that this practice should be little bit changed and they cannot exactly follow the change and they cannot exactly follow the Islamic law and they cannot exactly follow the Islamic law that they bring from the overseas.

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And they cannot exactly follow the Islamic law that they bring from overseas. Because most of the imams here in Sydney, in Sydney, they So these 2 types, they realise that there is a need for change of the practice.

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The third type of the imam that I would like to tell you is traditional amount. The main role or the main responsibility of them for themselves that they trying to have the project of their identity.

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They say the most important things that we keep Islamic identity for this generation and for next generation. They also believe that the most importantly is transmission the culture to the next generation.

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And they try to keep the principle. They are more that they are more put themselves in the framework of the Islam and also try to put the community on that frame.

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So as you can see the data show the the data shows from the interview with the imam that for them for a mom as you can see.

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Very important things is they keep their identity. We came here to Australia, we are going to lose our identity if we don't have any responsibility.

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We are going to lose the identity, Islamic identity. The most important things for them is in the most important things the Islamic identity for the congregation.

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And they protecting religious capital. They don't want touch anything from the religious. They want to keep it.

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They want to have it. And they think they can have this one and have a good life here in Australia.

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And maybe in somehow they have to a little bit. Compromise with the Muslim thinking.

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So they establish a school most of the Muslim community in Sydney they have written the school and also the weekday of school.

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More than 60 more than 60 schools we have in Australia, in Sydney, Islamic school. So because they want to transmit the knowledge for the next generation.

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So there is some complication because the result is children they have sometimes 2 faces. There is so many conflicts between young people and the parents.

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The last type of leaders that our analysis is the leader with limited maneuverability. They habitus.

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The capital, the educational capital, the social bubble that they made for themselves and for the community. It's very, very limited.

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For integration to the new society. So they culture they bring. Didn't connect and we didn't match with the younger, so with the younger generation.

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They cannot speak English. They most of them 27 years the lived here and cannot speak in English and just he he believed that he has to preach in the origin language and also the religious capital because the religion that they learn from overseas is doesn't match and so many young people they don't want to.

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They don't want to mix with them in Bordeaux's story. The last And the last slide is last 2 type of imams traditional and in on with the limited manoeuvrability.

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The habit as they brought it here. Very different with the people here and the educational, social, cultural that we get in the field is so different.

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And the data even themselves as we are ready to have immun training here. Imam training here rather than being a reformer or anything they want maybe for further maybe for further research.

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There is a good, they have a training among classes or college or whatever at university. Thank you very much for listening.

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Thank you, Menush. And I'd like to invite Benji Lewis from Monash University for our next presentation.

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Okay, so I will be presenting today on my research which explores Australian Jews attitudes towards and experiences of into faith or into cultural partnering.

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Before I thought I might start by just providing some context about the Australian Jewish community. The first Jews arrived in Australia from England.

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And since then there have been multiple waves of migration. A notable one was around the time of the Holocaust where large amount of holocaust survivors and refugees came to Australia, almost doubling the size of the Jewish community.

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They have also been more recent ways of immigration from South Africa and the former Soviet Union. Today the Jewish community in Australia is is estimated to be around 120,000.

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Which is about half a percent of the total population.

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Of that those 120,000 the majority live in the 2 major cities of Sydney and Melbourne.

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And within those cities are further concentrated within a few local government areas.

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Approximately 50% of school age children are estimated to currently be attending a Jewish day school.

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An even higher percentage will attend at some point during their schooling.

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In terms of intermarriage rates among Jewish populations around the world. Most have seen a steady increase.

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Over time and this includes the strain in the Jewish population.

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Within this general pattern of increase in intermarriage differences across streams of Judaism. With those who view themselves as orthodox having the lowest rate of intermarriage.

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Whereas those who view themselves as progressive or secular having the highest rate of intermarriage.

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Despite these within group differences, a lot of research and intermarriage, particularly in Australia, doesn't really look at, you know, within group differences.

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Or how these differences are. Shapes by experiences. Across settings and over the life course. That was the aim that my research aimed to address.

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And this was done using both quantitative and qualitative approaches. To provide an in-depth and multi-faceted exploration.

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And this is just kind of an overview of the research questions.

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In terms of a theoretical framework, the research drew on the work of Carmen who views honoring choices as a product of preferences.

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So what you consider desirable in a partner. And also opportunity as well. The likelihood of meeting our group members relative to in group members.

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And also draws on the work of Alberni and other integration theories. Which views intermarriages involving the crossing blurring and shifting of group boundaries.

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So in terms of today's presentation, I'll be focusing on the qualitative data. Which involved 44 interviews.

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Completed with members of the Strangling Jewish community. A purpose of sampling approach was used to recruit interviewees from a range of Jewish upbringings.

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Relationship statuses and also to achieve agenda balance. And this slide gives you an overview. What the sample ended up looking like.

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This kind of gives you this diagram kind of news an overview of what the interview covered. So it looked at family experiences.

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So sort of values, beliefs, practices. Stream of Judaism that the interview is grabbing. As well as their family relationships.

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It also looked at key experiences in contexts that research has identified as being important in shaping the formation of Jewish identity.

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Such as the neighborhood in which interviews grew up. The type of school there attended. And their involvement in community organizations.

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It also looked at interview situation densities. What was most important to them? How do they connect?

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And how does this like relate to impact their partnering preferences? And also how they're partnering experiences influence their Jewish identity.

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And looked at the relationship between these different components as being dynamic, like constantly changing over the life course as interviewees for example started high school or university or and so on.

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In terms of one key theme that emerged when looking at family was how for many interviewees, particularly those from We did describe themselves as coming from non-orthodox backgrounds.

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That for them their family was most enduring and strongest form of connection to their Jewish identity. Many of these interviewees, they didn't necessarily have a strong connection to God.

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Or to the observance of Jewish law. Rarely had a strong connection to Jewish practices that entail the coming together of family.

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And for them, their connection was about these family connections and very much social.

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A lot of interviewees also spoke about how their family, sickly those from positive upbringings have their family served as a template.

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For what they imagine their future family to look like. And how they would like to raise their children.

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In terms of key experiences. A lot of interviewees, particularly those who grew up in a neighborhood with a large Jewish population.

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It tends at a Jewish day school throughout the schooling. For many of these interviews, describe the upbringing as being in a sort of bubble-like context or bubble-like environment.

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For these interviewees. By the time they finish school, so throughout their schooling, they had almost had an exclusively Jewish social network.

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And had limited extensive contact. With people from other cultural and religious backgrounds. And quite a few of them commented on how this provided them.

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With a sense of comfort, safety and familiarity, which they hope to maintain later on in life. However, there were some interviewees, particularly those who at the time of being interviewed with non Jewish partners.

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You describe this bubble-like environment as a bit of insular clicky. And something they wish to sort of move beyond once they finish school.

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I think it was during this post school period that lot of differences with seen in interviewee's. Life trajectories between those who ended up with a Jewish partner and those with the non-Jewish partner.

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I think it's a period of life that's often under researched particularly in relation to the formation of Jewish identity and partnering choices.

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So for for interviewees who ended up with a non-Jewish partner. They often commented on how they really embraced the opportunity to meet people from different cultural and religious backgrounds post-school, particularly during university.

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And to less extent. During when went went entering the workforce. And for these interviewees, they really spoke as illustrated in the quote on the slide and how they embraced the opportunity to add other parts of their identity.

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2 their identity that they might not have had before. I think in contrast those who ended up with the Jewish or with a Jewish partner although they acknowledge that they had more opportunities to meet people.

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Different backgrounds. These relationships were a little bit more transient and context-based. They didn't really, for example, they might have made some friends at university.

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They didn't extend beyond university once they graduated. And they tended to stick to their core group of friends that they established at well at school.

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I think a lot of interviewers also spoke about how during this period of life they experienced increasing commitments to work study and personal interests that perhaps led to a drop-off in their community engagement or Yeah, their community engagement.

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Another theme that came up, particularly when interviewees were discussing their partnering choices and preferences was this concept of Jewish continuity.

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For them, they're in their Jewish identities are not just about to hear and now, but linked to the past and also going forward.

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They wanted to transmit their Jewish identity to future generations by raising Jewish children. And for them this was explicitly for a lot of interviews this was explicitly linked to marrying a Jewish partner.

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With some interviews, this concept of continuity was not just about them as an individual. The link to the continuity of the Jewish population as a whole.

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And that was often spoken about among the backdrop of. Fears of assimilation because It's Jewish population is small in number.

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And also for some interviewees in relation to the Holocaust. And how that had been a past threat to continuity.

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And served as an imperative. To ensure continuity.

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So I guess for many this raises the question and it related to the title of this presentation is Why was continuity for so many interviewees?

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Explicitly or closely tied to marrying someone else that was Jewish or in marriage. There are lots of ways that Jewish identity can be transmitted across generations.

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For example, by, you know, community organizations, schooling to why was it for so many interviews, interviewees, the focus on Marrying someone else that was Jewish.

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I think one explanation for that is For many interviewees, their family, as mentioned previously, was a template for what raising a Jewish child would look like.

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And so almost all interview is came from families with 2 Jewish parents. Had friends. You had to Jewish parents and so for them it was hard to imagine.

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What raising a Jewish child would look like. With someone who was not Jewish, a non Jewish partner. There was no sort of template for that.

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I also thought it was interesting the way this link between continuity and partnering choices. Changed over the life course.

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Becoming particularly salient. As interviewees. Became older and were looking for more serious long-term relationships.

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I think also as interviewees became older and as mentioned earlier they had competing commitments to work. Study.

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Etc and they experienced that drop-off in engagement with the Jewish community. I think for them as a compensation or to combat this drop off.

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They had an extra focus on finding a Jewish partner. To ensure continuity. In other ways. I also think based off the daughter that there were clear gender differences.

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In this link. And this is related to the Jewish principal or the Orthodox Church Principal.

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Of matrilineal descent which holds that A person's Jewish status or whether or not they're considered Jewish.

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It's that determined by whether or not their mother is Jewish. So I think for many of them the men interviewed.

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The link between continuity and partnering choices. Was very binary. Either they had a Jewish partner and that child would be considered Jewish or was considered Jewish.

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Or they would they were with a non Jewish partner. And their child wouldn't be. There was very little discussion.

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About the life about how they would raise their child. Contrast a lot of the women interviewed Spoke or acknowledged that regardless of who their partner was, Jewish and non Jewish.

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That children would be considered Jewish. And instead there was more discussion on how they would raise their children. While this was a common theme.

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Throughout the interviews. It's also important to note that not everyone sort of brought into this narrative. And there were some.

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Interviewees who disagreed with it. And this was particularly the case for interviewees had. Positive relationships.

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With a non Jewish partner. Who was interested and willing to be engaged with that. Cut Jewish cultural identity.

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And for these interviewees, that kind of really challenged the notion that being with the non-Jewish partner would somehow compromise.

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There ability to transmit that. Jewish identity or raise Jewish children.

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I think also for interviewers who grew up in

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Grew up in in families where maybe one parent was not Jewish or The parent had converted. For these interviewees there was also less of a connection between continuity and being with a Jewish partner.

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I think I'll leave it there. Thanks.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Thank you Benji and time for our last presenter Giselle Ishin way to come and speak to us.

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Good afternoon everyone.

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I mean, we can respond. I feel like we've been quiet for a while. As much as I've enjoyed the presentation I was sitting there like, It's been a minute, but thank you to all the presenters before me.

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I was inspired and I've learned so much so far that I'm going to add to my work.

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Just to start off, my name is Giselle Shimway and I am a PhD student so please be gentle with me and the title of my PhD project is Exploring Settlement Experiences and and Pentecostalism among Black African young adults in Australia.

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And I'm from the investor of Western Sydney and To start the presentation, I wanted to kind of explore a little bit about, I wanted to discuss a little bit about the relevance of this research and what sort of drew me to this particular topic.

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So in the last maybe not maybe in the last 30 years the population of black African people has grown drastically in terms of their visibility in the country.

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And so in terms of that growth it has brought about some sediment challenges that different people have experienced thus complicating their existence in this country and additionally as I've highlighted in my title called them Black Africans.

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Their visibility sometimes, I mean a lot of the times makes their experience even more complex. And I'm interested in pentecostalism is because amongst all the other Christian denominations, it's been growing and there's also been terms of how it's experienced in terms of how it's localized in terms of how people especially

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migrant communities find identity find a sense of belonging with this community and also the idea of reverse missions where people from the Globe or South are bringing their Christianity in Western communities where they are now, I guess, through mission trips to overseas, which is completely a different way to look at it, a different way to approach

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religion. And another part of it is also because this research is drawn from my own personal experience. As I will further discuss and I guess when you're doing a fish do you think about what are the police implications of my work and and I guess I thought about the fact that if we know better we can do better if we can understand experiences

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of people a little bit better then we have a better picture of thinking about how can we support them, how can we better build community with them.

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All right, so. As an African person, I loved telling stories. I wanted to make this a little bit personal.

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There's a beautiful say from, I guess it's generally across Africa. It's an African say, generally across Africa, it's an African say, but when I was researching I wanted to be very specific.

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It's a Nigerian evil saying that that breeds it takes a village to raise a Nigerian evil saying that reads it takes a village to raise a child.

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A share of personal picture there look much taller in the picture. And this is a picture of myself, my little sister of myself, my little sister, the frog wearing white and my mom sitting in the chair and she's carrying white and my mom sitting in the chair and she's carrying our mom sitting in the chair and she's carrying

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our neighbors child and the other girl at the back is one of our neighbor's child and the other girl at the back is one of our family friends that had come to Singapore because her parents.

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Had traveled. So I kind of grew up in Uganda. We moved to Uganda as refugees.

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And we lived there for quite some time. And as I was growing up, as my parents were sort of wrestling through sediment, as I guess moving to a new country and the challenges of being in this new country, they were quite absent a lot of the times.

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But not once did I feel the loneliness or did I feel like I was alone in this community?

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I always felt like my community had my back. The little girl that my mom is carrying, her mom technically raised us.

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Like she would cook us meals, she would come over, she'd check up on us, you kind of felt like everybody was your family, maybe being young and naive, maybe that might have played a part in terms of how connected I felt in this community.

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But I remember arriving in Australia and And I was quite shocked at the empty streets. That I noticed I was super excited to meet the kids and run around the streets and meet people and I'm like wow this is going to be so fun and then the first few days I'm like where are the kids in this country?

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. And I think as As I've been doing this research, I sort of started to think about it from a sense of like where this notion of a village was stripped off me in terms of being in this new community that didn't feel as connected as the community that I grew up in.

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And later on, as you're selling it when your country go through your own identity crisis, figuring out where am I from? Who am I? What am I doing with my life?

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And I found friends who invited me to repent across the community and I found different things that influenced and helped shape my life in different ways.

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And I wanted to explore if this was the case for other people as well. And what was the nature of this experience?

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Now, my kind of interest I like to kind of connect this experience in terms of the impact of religion but also looking at the sediment experience of people as I don't think they can, especially amongst the people that I will study, they cannot be separated.

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And to be able to understand one, you need to understand the other. So I used to run a book club where the whole inspiration was around understanding African existence in the world.

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We would read scholars from African backgrounds to try and connect with our African roots. And so as part of this group, we read a small book that was put together by different African young people across Australia where they were exploring what was their sediment experience and I love this particular quote from your door where she pretty much captures some of

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the things that I think I even I myself was wrestling with and I want to read it and it reads But someone who looks like me call this home referring to Australia was home something you embrace or did you also have to embrace you back?

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Would I always be seen as a conditional citizen to whom citizenship was not a right, but a gift that could only be kept by impeccable character.

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Would any mistakes or wrongs committed by people who looks like me mean that my staying this new home became no longer acceptable?

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Would any complain or sign of ungratefulness be deemed as a lack of appreciation of the opportunities presented to me.

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Should I consider a backup plan? I don't know what backup plan she's got, but go back where I came from.

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Where was home? And this really beautifully captures this complex sense of identity that a lot of young black African young people go through trying to find their place in this country.

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And this is further complicated by the backdrop of you know experiences that they come across and there's been some research exploring experiences of Black African people and a big factor is their visibility being visibly different tends to be associated with feelings of rejection from mainstream society where they feel like their skin is a burden to them.

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And there's also this notion about conditional acceptance and the necessity to be exceptional at everything if you want to be noticed at anything.

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So it puts pressure in terms of you can't just be born and just be basic you have to be exceptional so which is which can put a lot of pressure and realistic expectations.

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And also to add to that is also looking at realistic expectations. And also to add to that is also looking at the Australia's regime.

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And also to add to that is also looking at the Australia's racial landscape. And also to add to that is also looking at that is also looking at the Australia's racial landscape, exploring our history in terms of colonisation, you know, exploring our history in terms of colonization, thinking about the white Australian policy, the reason

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why we are only having black African people come a little bit later, thinking about the white Australian policy, the reason why we are only having Black African people come a little bit later, partly is because of the white Australian policy that did not allow people or black not initially that's indigenous people but you know what I mean and kind of

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exploring a little bit later looking at the expenses of it you know integration and now the really cool concept that we talk about all the time, multiculturalism and celebrating diversity and all of us being different, bringing that all together, which is beautiful in some sense but also complicated as well and has its own challenges.

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And now the current debates that we have going on around the voice development. Now, bringing in the Pentecostal perspective that I explore in my work is some of the overview of the literature is like I mentioned before the growth in pentecostalism especially amongst young people especially with the loud music and the emphasis on

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personal relationship like some of the scholars who've spoke before me have explored but also amongst particularly settling communities it you know in in kind of it kind of becomes a space where they find safety and it can become like a group identity where it offers guidance on how to leave daily life.

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But for some it also serves as a surrogate family where they can they have the community to rely on and in some way I guess going back to the village notion maybe it's like a it becomes a space of deconstructing that village.

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Just making it up right now. And now the research gap that I noticed as I was reading and I noticed as I was reading and investigating I wanted to use this court from the inspiration to my mother, I wanted to use this court from the inspiration to Mam, I wanted to use this court from the inspiration to Mamma and where she explores the dangers of a single story when we have one single story about

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a particular group of people, we don't have the complete story and that can influence how we deal if we don't have the complete truth, we don't necessarily come up with the best solutions of how to do with it.

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So my research and the sort of stories and some of the things I'm going to be sharing are.

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My way of filling in the gap to some extent which is a massive It's a massive story, but we're all kind of feeling in pieces and I particularly passionate about this because of the inside of this because of the inside of position that I hold within this community I feel that this because of the inside of position that I hold within this community I feel that the

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experience of position that I hold within this community I feel that the inside of position that I hold within this community, I feel that the way I embody a lot of the things that I explore adds a lot of value to the research that I do.

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So my argument is basically exploring while many African young people may feel a sense of rejection from mainstream Australian society through numerous experiences of discrimination is I've discussed before.

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You know, their church committees can provide a sense of belonging that eases their settlement experiences. So I wanted to look a little deeper.

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What role does being a pentecost or being part of a church community make what difference does it make amongst this group of African young people that I was looking at?

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So I adopted because I was drawn to the racial aspect of the research I adopted a critical risk theory and I haven't I'm still kind of reading through where religion meets that.

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And it's been really interesting journey, but I was interested in this theoretical framework particularly because of its ability to center the experience and knowledge of the people that you're studying, particularly because of its ability to center the experience and knowledge of the people that you're studying, putting their stories at the center and giving them the ability to center the experience and knowledge of the people that you're studying, putting their stories at the center and giving them the platform to

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shape their stories, putting their stories at the center and giving them the platform to shape their stories, especially given the history at the center and giving them the platform to shape their stories, especially given the history of colonization and the work that we do.

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Change the levels or how people experience life. And I wanted to do, so I wanted something that allowed me to challenge a dominant ideology that people may hold.

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But also I love the commitment to social justice in terms of for me this work is not just Here we go, I do a research and I submitted.

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I'm thinking about what difference is this gonna make to the community of young people that I work with that I speak to all the time?

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How can my work inform their experiences or offer some ideas on how to do with some of the challenges that they're dealing with.

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So I thought that this would be the best lens to investigate their social experiences and later we'll figure out how the religion part comes in.

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And I came across this really cool systemic way of looking at the impact that religion makes. In young people.

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I mean this particular study that I was reading was based in America and he was kind of looking at a systemic way of how can we look at the impact that religion makes.

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Obviously as he's broken it down it just kind of gives your mind something to work with because I've only recently started doing my interviews so I'm still kind of going through with the data but this has been so helpful and kind of mapping out what I'm capturing and hearing from my participants.

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And hope and later what I hope to do is continue to analyze that a little deeper and think about the other aspects of sediment or of of their identity and see how that intertwines.

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But also as I've been looking at the data, these things are also very in connected. They kind of work together.

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My methods, the other reason why I chose critical course theory is being able to hear stories and tell stories is my passion.

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So I got to do like narrative interviews with my participants and ask them very basic questions and then I would just take a minute journey of whatever experience that they've had which was very very exciting and I'm hoping to do some semi-structured interviews with church leaders and parents just to kind of capture what their vision is for young

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people, but also to understand from parents I would love to understand that intergenerational relationship that they have with their younger population.

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And I also did some participant observation which was Bit of a strange one for me, especially being an insider and an outsider, but also I think even that the notion of positionality, I think sometimes I was realizing how sometimes I kind of get lost.

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In the people and they forget that I'm researching about them and then I get a little bit scared I'm like I hope you I have to remind them.

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So it's been a very interesting space to navigate and I'm still figuring it out.

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And my field side is this really awesome church that started in Ghana. Hi. Let me rush to the findings because these are really, really important.

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So some of them emerging patterns that I'm seeing in the work is that a lot of the emerging patterns that I'm seeing in the work is that a lot of my participants that I'm seeing in the work is that a lot of my participants find themselves living in the shadows of a prescribed black identity.

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You put on like a surgical board and it's like, let's dissect to the things that we want to find out about you and you're some sort of like zoo animal that we're investigating, which is quite a dehumanizing experience for a young person to experience.

457
01:29:35.000 --> 01:29:51.000
And something else that I found was this thing about performing into visibility the pressure to perform so that you can be noticed you can be seen and this participant was basically basic giving me sharing her the advice that her parents told her was like you don't have to be better but you don't have to be the best but you got to

458
01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:59.000
be better and so she felt the pressure to always push herself to make sure that that's how she would be noticed by people.

459
01:29:59.000 --> 01:30:08.000
And this kind of exclusion, that's how she'll be noticed by people. And this kind of exclusion led to a digging deeper where young people were now drawn to a digging deeper where young people were now drawn to a digging deeper where young people were now drawn to dig a little deeper to their spiritual roots and to a

460
01:30:08.000 --> 01:30:12.000
digging deeper where young people were now drawn to dig a little deeper to their spiritual roots and their spiritual community to find a place to belong.

461
01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:33.000
Well. Everyone out of time, but I will read this last quart, please. So this one is, so this one was really important to me because I think it was such a severe situation and I I'll just read it because so it read as a child I went to church because my parents went to church.

462
01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:44.000
I didn't go to church because I had a relationship with God. So back when I was about 1415 years old, I was still depressed, going through my own emotional turmoil and whatnot.

463
01:30:44.000 --> 01:30:50.000
It was such an awakening moment, you know, one night I was praying, I was crying, I was upset, I was even societal.

464
01:30:50.000 --> 01:30:52.000
I had some points in my life where I would go to the kitchen and I'll start cutting myself.

465
01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:58.000
So I would always question my faith. I've always questioned my beliefs. I've always questioned my beliefs.

466
01:30:58.000 --> 01:30:59.000
Like my mom and dad are always taking me to church. Like my mom and dad are always taking me to church, but I don't really see the value in this church thing.

467
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:01.000
I don't really see the value in this church thing. So I want to go to God myself and just plead with him like who are you?

468
01:31:01.000 --> 01:31:09.000
I want to go to God myself and just plead with him like who are you? Who am I? What am I doing here?

469
01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:23.000
I'm like, who are you? Who am I? What am I doing here? I'm questioning my belongings.

470
01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:32.000
Cause I ran out of time. Thank you so much for listening.

471
01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:48.000
Thank you, Giselle. I'd like to invite all of our speakers to come and join us at the front we've got about 15 min to come and join us at the front we've got about 15 min for a speed round of questions.

472
01:31:48.000 --> 01:31:57.000
So that if we've got people on zoom they're able to hear the questions giving us out of time please.

473
01:31:57.000 --> 01:32:12.000
Keep your questions short and to the point and I'd like to echo Giselle's comment to be gentle with that all of our speakers you know and encouraging in the way we ask questions of each other.

474
01:32:12.000 --> 01:32:22.000
Do we have any questions for, oh, we're bursting with questions. I'm going to go to Doug and then I'm going to go to Doug and then I'll go to you and then catch.

475
01:32:22.000 --> 01:32:25.000
Okay, thanks all of you. That was a great panel. A question to, Stephen Reed.

476
01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:42.000
Did I understand the tables correctly? So amongst 20 to 20 nine-year-olds about 16% are Catholics.

477
01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:53.000
And then of them about 10% are regularly attending Catholics. So do I calculate correctly that somewhere around 1%?

478
01:32:53.000 --> 01:32:58.000
Of 10 to 20 year olds are regularly attending Catholics.

479
01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:06.000
20 to 29 year olds, sorry. That does have little, I mean, it sounds like you've interpreted the graph correctly.

480
01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:14.000
I think it's the graph on mass attendance rates by age. I'd have to sort of check the data correctly.

481
01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:23.000
Hope you want to comment. You probably created that. Big environment. As well.

482
01:33:23.000 --> 01:33:42.000
Sorry, I think you have slightly misunderstood the steps in the calculation. Around about 5% of it's in that order 5% or 6% of Catholics in their late teens and early twenties.

483
01:33:42.000 --> 01:33:49.000
Would be regular church attenders on a Sunday. So more than one per cent. But not a lot more.

484
01:33:49.000 --> 01:33:52.000
Of all Australians.

485
01:33:52.000 --> 01:34:01.000
Well, why would we be measuring the percentage of all Australians going to Catholic churches? We're measuring the percentage of Catholic.

486
01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:14.000
Australia is going to church on a Sunday. We don't other NCLS National Church Live Survey would have figures about the non-Catholic attendances for various age groups, our concentrations on the Catholics.

487
01:34:14.000 --> 01:34:22.000
Is that answer your question? I'm not sure that I have answered. I can chat with you later though.

488
01:34:22.000 --> 01:34:30.000
We can have a chat on numbers outside. We can have a chat on numbers outside. Sorry, I don't know your name.

489
01:34:30.000 --> 01:34:39.000
Thank you. Thank you. I have a question for McNosh, to me. So you talked about traditional imams.

490
01:34:39.000 --> 01:34:56.000
I'm I suspect I would suspect that among the imams that you are calling traditional There are some who are traditionalist in their orientation, but they are also some who are modernist.

491
01:34:56.000 --> 01:35:10.000
In the sociology of religion, you know, we make these distinctions. In fact, in the study of Islam, there are at least 4 dominant orientations at least for traditionalism modernism but also neo-modernism.

492
01:35:10.000 --> 01:35:17.000
And neo-traditionalism. So I thought it would be useful to make that distinction.

493
01:35:17.000 --> 01:35:23.000
That's more of a comment, but the question is this.

494
01:35:23.000 --> 01:35:38.000
I'm obviously not familiar with Australia, but what I know about the US in the 1980 s and the 1990 s Imams played a very, important role in the spread of Wahabism and Salafism.

495
01:35:38.000 --> 01:35:53.000
And that really defined Islam in the US. And to a great extent also in the UA very fundamentalist, you know, problematic.

496
01:35:53.000 --> 01:36:04.000
Orientation. Among Muslims in this part of the West. So I wonder whether you could comment on you know, on what the situation has been in Australia.

497
01:36:04.000 --> 01:36:12.000
And maybe even, you know, comparing the the 1980 s onwards with the situation today.

498
01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:24.000
Thank you. Thank you very much for attention to my speech actually I think there is so many similarities.

499
01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:39.000
Actually, I think there is so many similarities. The between the United States context and Australian context. However, I think for here it's They use them.

500
01:36:39.000 --> 01:37:02.000
Experience of American Muslim. And also the Muslim in Europe here in Australia. And the the impact of imams in the community here is different from so many aspect and shi aspect I think.

501
01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:20.000
The more impact in the Sunni community as I found rather than in Shi'ite community. And also here it is very new community in Muslim community in Australia as I found, they are struggling to survive.

502
01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:42.000
To survive rather than impact to them. Your other aspect and also the point that The September eleventh It's what it is it was something that Muslim in Australia, DAY, I don't know what you call it, their role of their mom is completely different.

503
01:37:42.000 --> 01:37:59.000
They role of their mom is completely different. Just they role of their mom is completely different. Just they wanted to say we are not those they wanted to show the piece of the flag rather than to say we are not those.

504
01:37:59.000 --> 01:38:21.000
Just they wanted to say we are not those, we are not to say we are not those, we are not those, we are not these, they wanted to show the piece of the flag rather than to prove something I found it.

505
01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:43.000
And the point at the beginning of the flag rather than to prove something. Thanks, I have a question also for Stephen about not numbers.

506
01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:58.000
Promise. But I wonder because you mentioned that families like you you categorize families if some people living together ticked Catholic.

507
01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:07.000
The senses or on the survey. So but I wondered how do you know if that's not just people living together like flatmates, how do you make?

508
01:39:07.000 --> 01:39:21.000
Them families. We in some respects we use a crude measurement from the census in that within a family and there's a crude measurement from the census in that within a family and there's a definition for family from the Strong Bureau of Statistics.

509
01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:30.000
Within a family, if anyone in that family ticks a box catholic, that family is considered a Catholic family and the same with households.

510
01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:35.000
There's different forms of households, one of which is a family household or a group households.

511
01:39:35.000 --> 01:39:50.000
So that's how we define a Catholic family or a Catholic household and the details. Within that and as I mentioned that's data that we have to order from the Bureau to get the customization for that.

512
01:39:50.000 --> 01:39:55.000
Does that answer the question? Good.

513
01:39:55.000 --> 01:39:59.000
Are we adding to? Yep.

514
01:39:59.000 --> 01:40:17.000
Is there a question on Zoom? Now that definition of Catholic family sounds terribly broad. It's not in any way a reflection of judgment about What faith traditional or faith practice that family might have is just an indicator.

515
01:40:17.000 --> 01:40:24.000
Of a way of identifying families with Catholics in it and you can break that down using the ABS structure.

516
01:40:24.000 --> 01:40:45.000
To families where there are 2 parents, both Catholic or one Catholic. A single one parent family with who's a with a parent as a Catholic all sorts of structures like that and you left with a residue of a few very small number of families where Neither the parents are Catholic, but there are children in the family who.

517
01:40:45.000 --> 01:40:51.000
There was at least one child who was a Catholic. Now that happens, who knows, So it's it's just a categorization.

518
01:40:51.000 --> 01:40:59.000
It's not any attempt to say these people are going to be Committed Catholics or anything like that.

519
01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:08.000
Yeah, thank you all for really interesting presentations. I really enjoyed it. I had a question for Giselle.

520
01:41:08.000 --> 01:41:19.000
I love your presentation. I'm doing a little bit into critical race theory myself in a topic which is not specifically on critical race theory so I can.

521
01:41:19.000 --> 01:41:32.000
Get your point about trying to murder them. I just wondered Like to me, when you were talking about the church spaces, I was almost thinking of a safe space.

522
01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:38.000
I wonder if you could just expand a bit more and like what about that space do you think was so supportive?

523
01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:43.000
Does it have something to do with actually who is in it and like whether it's an autonomous?

524
01:41:43.000 --> 01:41:53.000
Or is it more about what they do in the cultural, yeah, and I guess it's a really hard question any early on, but maybe just some general reflections.

525
01:41:53.000 --> 01:42:01.000
Oh, I also have one for Benji for this time. Yeah, I just was curious.

526
01:42:01.000 --> 01:42:06.000
I mean, the met matrilineal. That's the right way. The same thing.

527
01:42:06.000 --> 01:42:13.000
Obviously, important but I just wondered like you know generally women are seen as responsible for the home environment.

528
01:42:13.000 --> 01:42:27.000
As a stereotype for the cooking the household and in that quote I have noticed she did mention a Jewish household do you think there's also something in there about if Jewish is like belonging to the domain of the home and the family that the gendered aspect might also extend to that.

529
01:42:27.000 --> 01:42:33.000
Thank you. So Giselle and then Maggie. Awesome. Thank you so much for your question.

530
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:50.000
I feel very honored to get a question. I think As I've been thinking about it, I think it's it's layered a part of this what makes a space special is sort of what they're running from.

531
01:42:50.000 --> 01:43:02.000
So there is the aspect of the society that they exist in that is complex and where they often feel excluded and often feel like they don't belong.

532
01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:16.000
A lot of my participants, I don't even know why they end up talking about school, but they will talk about their high school experience and how they felt like they didn't belong, how they were questioned by their accents, how they were told, you know, there's your skin wash off.

533
01:43:16.000 --> 01:43:32.000
Things like that that made them feel horrible about themselves. So there was that sense of that kind of exclusion that then would sort of influence the way they felt about themselves, their state of being, and then being part of a family.

534
01:43:32.000 --> 01:43:40.000
And for some families actually some of them were not even part of a religious community back in Ghana if when they arrived but because they found community there they went to that church and then they drag the kids along because you don't have a choice.

535
01:43:40.000 --> 01:43:56.000
But so being part of that community allow them to have this forced community for some of them because it's kind of like they had to go, but eventually as they made people around their age and they meet people who share similar experience.

536
01:43:56.000 --> 01:44:12.000
Sometimes they don't even have to talk about the fact that we share similar experiences, but because we, there's almost like this unspoken of understanding of each other that takes place where they kind of get even I found this even when I was doing my interviews where sometimes I say things they're like, oh, you know what?

537
01:44:12.000 --> 01:44:23.000
And I'm like, oh, because yeah, OK, I see what you mean. So there's almost like this shared experiences that it creates a sense of familiarity that makes them feel safe.

538
01:44:23.000 --> 01:44:36.000
And additionally to that I think is the people in that community as well do play a part in terms of making really a lot of effort to engage young people at church, to stay in touch with them, doing lockdown.

539
01:44:36.000 --> 01:44:41.000
People were telling me that they got phone calls, you know, when they were going through the exams, they're like, how is it going?

540
01:44:41.000 --> 01:44:45.000
People checking up on them and seeing how they're progressing through things even though they may not be completely open and tell in detail what's going on.

541
01:44:45.000 --> 01:44:59.000
There was a lot of effort to kind of reach out with their, you know, they don't have a lot of resources, not a big church, but they try and do the best that they can to do community the best so that they know how to.

542
01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:06.000
So I find that those different factors play a role in terms of creating a safe space because where else are they experiencing that?

543
01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:15.000
So it creates a really safe space for them to continue to kind of have the strength to see another day.

544
01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:24.000
Happy yes, good question and I think there was that gendered aspect as well. In terms of the family environment.

545
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:32.000
A lot of the interviewees when they spoke about their upbringing. And some of those family-based practices I spoke about.

546
01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:37.000
A lot of them are food-based, like Friday night meals, about meals or other seda.

547
01:45:37.000 --> 01:45:46.000
And a lot of the interviewee spoke about how that was. Organized by their mother or their grandmother and I think That also had an impact as well.

548
01:45:46.000 --> 01:45:55.000
I think for a lot of many with non-judge partners. I think They didn't really assume that responsibility themselves to kind of.

549
01:45:55.000 --> 01:46:02.000
Safe take on that role in the family that they had established or were going to establish.

550
01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:12.000
Just a quick question for Mark. with the LGBT people, you people that came out.

551
01:46:12.000 --> 01:46:18.000
And didn't find, couldn't continue as a home in the Pentecostal churches.

552
01:46:18.000 --> 01:46:26.000
Did they continue in any way with their faith? Did they find another congregation? Did they?

553
01:46:26.000 --> 01:46:38.000
What was their spiritual journey like once they were kind of shunned from the Pentecostal groupings.

554
01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:55.000
Most of the people I spoke to are so the answer is mixed so there was so Sage I introduced you to for example was very clear that her faith extended beyond her church participation so it wasn't dependent on.

555
01:46:55.000 --> 01:47:01.000
On that community so she felt like she'd lost her community but she hadn't lost her faith in God.

556
01:47:01.000 --> 01:47:08.000
But others sort of one of the others I introduced you to Yul very much celebrated. A loss of faith.

557
01:47:08.000 --> 01:47:10.000
So it's very much like You know, I was terrified to have sex all of this time.

558
01:47:10.000 --> 01:47:20.000
I'm having a great time now. I'm not worried about hell anymore. So there was both.

559
01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:38.000
There was people who who did find inclusive forms of Christianity or other forms of spirituality in faith and there was those who abandoned faith in 50%. Let's go with that.

560
01:47:38.000 --> 01:47:48.000
It's a round about that. Doug Doug's backing me up, so yep. What are numbers?

561
01:47:48.000 --> 01:47:55.000
We're near the end of our session and I just wanted to kind of throw a big Questions Adam to like answer in you know, 30 s.

562
01:47:55.000 --> 01:48:13.000
I feel like a lot of what we talked about today that was borders and movement, we had resettlement, we had Jewish bubbles, we had a great institution in and out and then you spoke to us about secularized borders of a material product and I'm just kind of wondering how whether you would take that idea of

563
01:48:13.000 --> 01:48:22.000
a secularized border into other spaces or if you just see it as a way of thinking about the movement of this product of holy water.

564
01:48:22.000 --> 01:48:35.000
Charging question for 30 s. Thanks. Better take the challenge and indeed we came with that consideration of the secreization secularization of borders with regards to object.

565
01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:49.000
This is a first step in trying to understand how border controls affect the movements of religion. This is just exploratory but it can go to

566
01:48:49.000 --> 01:49:05.000
Various next failures indeed Thank you. Do we have any final questions or are we all ready to press on without any final questions or are we all ready to move on if we could have a final round of applause for all of we are ready to press on with how.

567
01:49:05.000 --> 01:49:07.000
I think we're already to move on if we could have a final round of applause for all

568
01:49:07.000 --> 01:49:12.000
It was wonderful to hear from every single one of you and I enjoy the rest of your conference.