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Okay. So good morning everyone and welcome to the session flight from pang hose and marriage in Asia and so at the beginning I would like to make this acknowledgment of country on behalf of everyone gathered I pay respect to the spirit of country here in N where we are meeting acknowledge the past and present cooling nation warrant that Jerry Y Warren at the

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Sovereign people here, the cultural knowledge holders who maintain and promote the Na, Operational Law, Customs and Custodianship responsibilities for country and the people that country continues to sustain generation after generation into the future for all of us.

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I recognize the important contribution that First Nation thinkers have made to sociology, including challenges to our dominant ways of thinking.

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We thank all for Nations data kids in the room today for their contributions to knowledge in the discipline. All right, and thank you everyone for being here with us.

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And so, my name is, Jammu from the National University of Singapore.

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And so today I will share the session on behalf of Professor Adam John, who unfortunately cannot join you today because he's done with the weather and hopefully that will get well soon.

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And so today, as you can read from the program, we have 5 like full links presentations and with the last one as an online presentation and all of the 5 presenters will have 50 min each.

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And then we also, fortunately, have a distributed paper presenter here and who will have 5 to 6 min to share his work.

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All right. And so this session is our co-organized by Professor Leclay from National Taiwan University and Professor Adam Chong from Hong Kong Baptist University and myself.

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And so without further ado, let's welcome our first presenter, Professor Lee, to present the work on political influences and fertility intentions based on our survey experiments in 3 societies Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore.

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Hi everyone. My name is Lycle. I'm from National Taiwan University. This project is actually a collaboration with Adam Jones from Hong Kong Baptist University and Zhang Mu from National Singapore University.

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And this is just one of the papers that we are trying to write using the server experiment because this server experiment actually do not only just focus on fertility intention, but we also study about marital intention and also it's not just about political influence but also about policies.

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However, because of the time limitation today, I just want to focus on one small point, but it is small but important.

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And so I would like to highlight it here in our research. Today. Should I just click?

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Excuse me? Should I click? Yep. So these are our granting bodies from Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore.

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Research background. So our research sets against the background of low fertility in advanced economies. Demographers explain that fertility decline is owing to culture of individualism, the expansion of education, and women's employment that increase the cost of fertility.

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And of course, work family conflict that women faced in gender unequal capital society also important for understanding women's lower intention to have babies.

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In Hong Kong, me and Adam actually worked on a project that suggests like some policies which could rectify the issue.

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Policies like leave policies, childcare support, housing policies and work our legislation do help raise people's fertility intention.

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However, in this paper we ask, what about politics, which supposedly affect almost all aspects of our lives?

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Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore are very similar, a similar, culturally and economically.

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Both 3 societies have high levels of education and high level of female participation in a labor force. They are all high-income countries or regions and culturally they are similar in a sense that they share Confucius tradition and they also have a large ethnic Chinese population.

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However, in terms of social policies, they are different. Like in Singapore, they have a generous housing policy, baby bonuses, tax rebates, and the largest percentage of subsidies for assisted.

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And they also have extended pay extending paid childcare leave and shared parental leave and shared parental leave.

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As for Taiwan, it is the most generous in terms of page childcare leave, which is up to 180 days per parent.

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But then it is not as generous as Singapore in other aspects. And for Hong Kong, actually it's the least interventionist social policy.

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Politically, they are diametrically different. Thus, they serve as good comparative cases for examining the political factors of fertility.

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I do not want to elaborate on a lot about the political background but simply put Hong Kong SAR is now a transitioning hybrid regime from a semi-democratic society to an authoritarian regime.

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And so at the political freedom is pretty limited with high level of political polarization. For Taiwan, it is a stable for democracy since the 19 nineties and that it has free, it politically is pretty free and also yet the political polarization is pretty high.

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So Singapore is a stable soft authoritarian country with limited political freedom and it has low level of political polarization.

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So these categories understood based on the political system and also the civil society. For instance, in Hong Kong and Singapore, the civil society now at present is pretty weak and in Hong Kong though it is transitioning because before 2,020 actually the civil society was pretty vibrant.

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So that is why we argue that is in Hong Kong is transitioning while in Singapore and Taiwan it's why in Singapore is stable because the PAP was has been in power since 1,965.

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So for further information about politics I could explain them during the QA. All right I don't want to throw too deep into those political explanations.

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Interestingly, despite the fact that politically they are diametrically different, the 3 societies total fertility rate is at the lowest low level.

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So the question is, does politics really matter in the explanation of fertility? In the literature, we find that there are studies about macro democratic revolutions which argue that democratic revolutions result in fertility decline since the version of modern means of contraception if we think about it together with the increased individual rights that might facilitate birth

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control. And also a democratic environment promotes civil liberties and individual freedom. It empowers women and allow greater opportunities for education and employment.

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So the opportunity cost of childbearing is hence increased. Yet these are very important micro-macro democratic revolution that allow us to understand historical fertility trends.

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But how does individuals fertility decision or intention differ in stable democracies or stable autocracies.

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Wang and Son actually did a research about different countries political system and how this correlates with fertility intention.

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They found that in upper middle income stable democracies, less civil liberty and political freedom were result in lower fertility.

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Although interestingly restricting political freedom has a positive impact on fertility in middle and low income countries. However, they do not offer any explanations.

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So I'll study try to fill in this gap. Our goal is to examine how important political influence is, political influence on governments is to individuals fertility intention by country.

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Political influence here means the people's ability to affect the collective conditions of the shared social life. It is an important component of democracy because for people to have an influence on the government, it involves processes by which citizens preferences with respect to public policy options could be transformed into outcomes.

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And according to Anne Gal, she cited a work from some surveys in EU countries and she found that the biggest obstacle for people to give birth is they worry about children's future.

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However, the understanding of children's future is not debunked clearly as she also suggested. And our study extrapolate from this idea and argue that people's perception of political influence of the country at the understanding of the children's future.

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And in addition, politics also affect emotions and emotional well-being also influence fertility. That is why we argue that political influence matters.

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In short, whether political influence on government is important or not in affecting fertility intention depends on the extent of which citizens in different society see democracy as important to them and to their children's future.

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We also understand that within the country, people differ by the political attitudes. There is a study about under Trump's administration.

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How do people from the Republican leanings versus the Democratic Party leaning, how they think about fertility, and that it really affects.

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So people from the Republican think that it's fine, you know, but then people from the Democratic Party think that, oh, I better not have more babies, you know.

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So that also means that within the same country under the same political system people's political attitude matters and in deciding fertility intention.

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Political attitude here we means attitude towards modern political democracy and democratic values. So our research question this study uses a comparative approach to understand whether the extent of people's political influence on the country affects individuals fertility intention in 3 Asian societies and whether the relationship between the extent of people's political influence on the country and fertility

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intention depend on individuals political attitude. So these are some high- hypotheses that we derived from the research question.

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All right, research method. We did 3 online factorial surveys conducted in mid 2,002 22 to early 2,023.

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It's a factorial survey experiment experimental design and in which participants with rent they are assigned with randomly hypothetical scenarios that vary along multiple dimensions of factors.

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And I'll explain those multiple dimensions in a minute. We use a professional survey company with its own data panels, which are demographically representative of the population in each society.

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Each society have sample sizes of a little bit fewer than 2,000. So these are the, there are some vineyard dimensions, 9 dimensions, but today we focus on one key variable.

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That is political influence variable with 3 levels. People's opinion almost have no influence on policy making. People's opinion sometimes influences policymaking and people's opinion is influential to people up to policy making.

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We also control for other variables like family policies. Childcare service provision, parental leave policies, etc.

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At the respondent level, we vary upon our major variable political attitude. It is a composite index that show the level of agreement of 3 statements about the attitude towards democratic values and other demographic variables.

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The outcome variable is the number of children. The outcome variable is the number of children. So this is our result.

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Is the main effect though. Here what it means is that when you take a closer look, you can see that for Hong Kong and Taiwan, they are very sensitive to whether they have political influence on the government in deciding whether they want more children.

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So and yet when you think about the attitude towards democracy you will wonder why is it a negative but then this table is meaning that when the reference category is no influence that is to say when people have no influence in the government, the and that the personal attitude towards democracy is a positive this will reduce the intention to give birth okay so this is the intention to give

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birth. Okay so this is the the baseline understanding okay and more interestingly is the interaction effect So here it shows that there is an interaction between political attitude and some influence for Hong Kong and Taiwan and that interaction term interaction relations between a political attitudes and having some influence having more influence in the government.

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You can see that Hong Kong and Taiwan are more sensitive to this as well. And Singapore, it doesn't really matter whether the people there won't, you know, have power on their government or not in deciding the childbirth.

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The interaction terms here means that if the individuals within the society have democratic values in their mind, they really care whether the society is whether people have influence on their government.

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All right, so this is a joint effect that at fact the fertility intention. Interestingly, for Hong Kong and Taiwan if we do what average marginal effect and in it we found that the attitude to us democracy becomes 0 in non significant when people have influence on the government.

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And so in conclusion, the result of this study showed that the generalized hypothesis, that is to say that overall having influence is important for fertility decision is partially supported because the effect is context dependent.

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There is a positive effect in Hong Kong and Taiwan and it's more important than that in Singapore.

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Political influence has less of an impact on fertility in context where there is no active political movement or for greater political rights.

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Our findings also indicate that the positive effect of political influence on fertility intentions vary based on individuals levels of political attitudes.

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In Hong Kong and Taiwan in individuals who support democracy are more likely to have reduced fertility intentions if there is a lack of political influence due to higher levels of political polarization and an active political movement.

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Just now I missed this slide. You can see that it's about the political unity of polarization.

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Hong Kong is the political unity of polarization. Hong Kong is the most polarized among all societies.

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And so Hong Kong versus others, combining the fact that people in Hong Kong are more diverse in political views.

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The interaction effect implies that there is more heterogeneity in the effect of political influence in shaping fertility in tension in Hong Kong than others.

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Singapore versus others. Well, there's a lack of political influence and yet I mean sorry for Hong Kong versus others, a lack of political influence does not have an impact on fertility intention regardless of an individual support for democracy.

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So this shows us that political influence, democracy really matters to fertility intentions. Okay, that's all for my presentation.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you, Leek. And since we have 6 presentations for the sake of time that I will have to invite you to hold your questions until the like a join Q&A at the end okay and so now we'll have our second presenter professor Minkey Kim to present her work on attitudes towards children and subject well being a

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comparison between East and the Southwest. South East Asia.

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Hello, nice to meet you. I mean, Hey, from Chang One, National University. Where is pointer?

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Okay, we can't point Tamination University in South Korea. So today I will talk about attitude towards children and subjective well-being comparison between East and Southeast Asia.

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Okay, let's talk up a background and research get first. In terms of fertility, although low and ultra low fertility have been an important policy issue in East and Southeast Asia.

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There is a positive of comparative study regarding subjective aspect of fertility. That is subjective perception of children.

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Among younger generations, subjective values have greater impact on family formation than objective conditions according to previous research. And Butility in Southeast Asia has not fallen as much as East Asia.

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First we can hypothesize that there can be some culture differences. In terms of values regarding children between East and Southeast Asia.

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And in terms of well-being, despite more favorable macro-level factors such as GDP is Asians.

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Less happy than Southeast engines.

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So considering macro live vectors look more established in East India, we need to pay attention to subjective values to solve this puzzle.

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Okay, we have 3 hypotheses. The first is that attitude to our children will show the distinctive blatant classes in both East and Southeast Asia.

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Hypothesis too is that latent class will be more diverse in East Asia than Southeast Asia and hypothesis hypothesis 3 is that the association between this at latent class membership and subjective well-being will be different between East and Southeast Asia.

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Okay. We analyzed family life and society in agent survey. It is called FL SAS.

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The survey was conducted in April, 2,021 in the in the 8 countries. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Puffin, Singapore and Thailand.

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These temples were designed to be nationally representative for each country.

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So we did a latent class analysis.

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We use this ISSP family and changing genderals module. I guess you all are very familiar with this questionnaire.

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We, it has items such as watching children grow up is life's greatest joy.

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No. So let's move on to the main project. We can see that there are 4, 500 classes.

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The first is strong inconvenience group and the second is moderate inconvenience group. The third is strong with traditional growth.

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And the final group is moderately transition group.

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And we can see some difference between East and Southeast Asia.

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Okay. Inconvenience. Due to children is more accurately recognized among East agents.

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It has 81.1%

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And traditional views. For example, strongly traditional and moderate traditional views are more strongly shown in Southeast Asia.

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It is 62.9%.

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And we can also see that latent groups were less diverse in East Asia.

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For example, 63% of East Asians are moreate inconvenience group. Whereas its latent classes are more diverse in Southeast Asia.

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For example, the moderately traditional group is 49% point 49.3% and moderate inconvenience screw was 29.1% in Southeast Asia.

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In terms of the association between latent group membership and subjective well-being.

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We can see that happiness we use the happiness and life satisfaction and happiness and less life satisfaction were correlated with

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This membership class membership and strongly traditional group in East Asia strongly traditional group was the happiest and the most satisfied.

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With life followed by moderately would directly traditional group. Merate inconvenience group and finally strong inconvenience group.

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In contrast, in Southeast Asia, strong is the same that strongly traditional group is the happiest and the most satisfied followed by more directly traditional group.

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But we can see difference, some differences in terms of that strongly inconvenience group is happier than moderate inconvenience group in Southeast Asia.

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So to understand this, we we examined The correlation between these 4 groups Mmm. And the mean of happiness and the mean of life satisfaction and we can see that in East Asia There's happiness and life, but satisfaction were correlated with the mean of all items.

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In attitude to children whereas these 2 subjective developing were correlated with positive items. In Southeast Asia so we can tentatively say that East Asians are more holistic in exhibiting their views about children but Southeast Asians are more passivity focused.

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So we can see the difference.

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Let's move on to the discussion and conclusion in terms of hypothesis one.

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Weing the attitude to our children, We show distinctive latent classes in both East and South Seas.

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Both in South East Asia we can say yes we could see the 4 different groups although the percentage were left the same.

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We can say that there are some transformation of values of children from the traditional to the modern or we can simply say that there is a mixture of both somehow showing compressive modernity in East and Southeast Asia.

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And regarding hypothesis 2. Latent class. Classes will be more diverse in East Asia than South East Asia we can say also yes.

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East Asians seem to recognize inconvenience of children more actually than Southeast Asians.

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Where as Southeast Asians loop that they are more willing to embrace positive aspects of children.

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Finally, hypothesis 3 the association between latent class membership and subjective well-being will be different.

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Between Eastern Southeast Asia Again, we can say yes. Data suggests that the association between latent class regarding values of children and subjective well-being can be understood more holistically among East Asians.

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It in contrast it can be understood more positivity focused way among Southeast Asians. So we thought that this can be an approach to understand happy Southeast Asians and gloomy stations.

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Now Korea's fertility rate rate in 2,002 is 0 point 7 8 to curve this which are low fertility we thought we need to intervene value aspects of children.

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We have this strong this strong thoughts about inconvenience of children and we have to intervene this.

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And a degree of subjective well-being can be due to the forecast of thinking. Whether we think everything very holistically or where we think of a positive aspect more deeply.

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Okay, thank you for listening.

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So sorry. Are you okay? No, no, it's okay. Furthermore, when you're looking at marriage, in the context of China as many of you, I'm sure no going back to 2,003 with legislative changes the divorce rate began to increase dramatically now more recently they have put some constraints to try to

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slow it down but divorce just surged over the last couple of decades. At the same time, marriage rates have been going the other direction going further and further down or indeed seeing fewer people getting married than ever before in China and it's quite likely to continue.

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But we're looking at it in terms of the collective mixture, well understandably because of the one child policy and many of the other fertility restrictions.

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We do have a skewed sex ratio in China and this is problematic again when you're thinking about it in terms of marriage plans and marriage rates.

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Even just those that are going into dating and mate selection processes right now. It's a very different world, which is taken on a rather materialistic quality where for many young women, for example, the idea of dating or marrying a young man who does not have his own home, his own car, a really good job.

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Well, no, he's not even under consideration. You've got to get a wealthy one, right?

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When you're looking at the larger context, again, change is really the theme here. When we're talking about it in terms of the marriage rate, marriage rates in China have been going further and further down over the past decade and again when we're talking about it in terms of the divorce rate it's going quite the opposite

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direction and again despite the recent sort of suppressive pieces of legislation which have been introduced. Divorces are still very very high in China.

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The fertility pattern of course most of you absolutely have to be familiar with certainly as we go back over the last half of a century, going back to the seventys with the one she shall program of course this is when we saw a dramatic drop in fertility patterns and then with the one child subsequently the 2 child and now we're into

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the 3 child policy. Simply fertility has been lowered dramatically and continues to remain low. Now, the context which I want to frame my work with today is what's known as the developmental paradigm.

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This goes back to people like Arlene Thornton, William Goode, simply the argument being that as societies modernize, it fundamentally changes the nature of the institution of the family.

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Families of course as much societal modernization takes place. They become smaller. There is a greater emphasis placed upon the nuclear form of the family rather than the extended form and in the Chinese context this is absolutely crucial to consider because of course the cultural paradigm the idea of chau or philiopiaity within

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China. Is very problematic when you have families literally being jigraphically separated because of jobs because of education and so forth and it is putting a strain upon those norms within Chinese families.

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You also have to think about it in terms of the sort of prioritization of what young people, young adults, really want out of life.

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Instead of having that great sort of emphasis of respect and attachment to the family. For many young people in China today it's really more about getting a good education getting a good job and ultimately yes making lots and lots of money.

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Marriage and parenthood? No, that's not really high on their priority list. So what do I want to talk about today?

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Well, pretty simple. What exactly are the marriage preferences that young people in China have and what are their childbearing aspirations and goals as well and also how do these vary between young men and young women?

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What I have for you here today, this is a sample taken from a survey project I've been working on over the past 10 years.

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The data here today comes from the 2,022 wave so it is very much what's going on right now.

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To jump into that. I asked several basic questions. First and foremost, asking young people, do you want to get married one day and I'm happy to tell you that the majority of them yes indeed do.

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On the downside, however, as you will notice, you do have a substantial number of both women and men who just simply say, no, no way.

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I don't want anything to do with this. When you're looking at it in terms of preferred timing at marriage and I can tell you from previous waves of collection it's getting higher and higher.

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You have young women wanting to get married around 27 years of age young men around 28 years of age and that's again following the current pattern that we've seen in China.

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Now the big issue is in terms of the desired number of birds. If you look closely you have 1.6 one for the females 1.7 one for the males but again if you pay a attention to the percentages you've got almost 16% of the women who want no kids at all.

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You've got close to 7% of the young men who say the same. So again, as this plays out in terms of fertility aspirations, if you have them beginning by saying, nope, I want no kids what so ever, that again has consequences.

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Now. I asked a variety of questions about their individual qualities also about their families naturally because this is again within the Chinese context where family is absolutely at the center of most people's lives.

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When you're looking at this across the board, I'll draw your attention to the idea of whether or not they would marry without parental approval, which in previous generations in China would have been an absolute no-no.

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Nowadays, yeah, you do have many young men and women that are considering doing just that. When you're looking at it further down the line there down at the bottom I also ask them would you have a satisfied life if you did not have any children ever and surprisingly a lot more of the young ladies agreed with that sentiment.

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I also asked would you have a satisfying life without any children and again significantly more of the women said yes I definitely could Now, within the multivariate analyses, I present you with 2 separate tables here.

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This one pertains to the Mayor's aspirations and if you look at the left 2 columns those are the models for people in terms of whether or not you want to get married.

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The third and fourth columns respectively pertain to the question of what is your preferred age at mayors?

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Now I'm not going to go through all the items here, but I do want to draw your attention to a few of these.

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If you look at the effects shown by the number of friends dating, amazingly, yeah, young people in China, they are very, very susceptible to peer influence.

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And if you pay any attention to Chinese social media. Young adults in China literally live inside social media and what their friends are doing, yes, it's not just affecting the type of clothes they want to wear, the restaurants they want to eat at, it is very much affecting their plans for both marriage and fertility as you'll see here

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in just a second. Simply the more their friends are doing these things in this case in terms of dating does have a substantial impact.

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I also want to draw your attention down there to the bottom of these models again coming back to the item of whether or not you would have a satisfying life without having children and you will notice that among the women not the men but among the women this actually is negatively associated with a desire to get married but it is positively associated with the

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preferred age at marriage. So for those young women who say that they could be happy without children, yes, this is very much intertwined with their aspirations for both getting married as well as possibly the timing of marriage.

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The 4 set here, these are the tables pertaining to the fertility aspirations and again for the first 2 columns there you are looking at the models for the number of children desired in the third and fourth columns for the preferred age at birth.

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Again, if you look at the overall impact of the number of friends dating you will immediately notice that yes, it does have a significant impact upon men when it comes to the number of children that they desire when you're looking at it for the women, it does have an impact upon the preferred age at birth as well as for the young

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men. Again, however, I draw your attention down to the bottom of these models where you're looking at the effect of having a satisfying life without getting married.

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Again, for the women, this is a negatively associated effect with number of children meaning simply that if they believe they can be happy without kids, well then I don't want to have kids simply as the sentiment.

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For those in the model there for the preferred age at birth, quite obviously if they feel that they can be happy without getting married.

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The sky is the limit. They will postpone having children understandably higher and higher and higher. Now to bring this all together, what you have here in table 5, this is giving you is simply a 2 by 2 looking at those combined of whether or not they want to have children but in terms of that relationship to getting married.

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And what you will notice as you look across these numbers is that quite obviously for those that don't want to have children again this is very much intertwined with their desire to get married and for those who don't want to have children the age of marriage.

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Again, this guy is the limit. They postpone that further and further and further. So what does all of this add up to?

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Quite simply. Well, when you're looking at this, you've got roughly two-thirds of these young people.

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Oh, and I should have explained, these are young adults who are attending colleges and universities across China.

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But you've got about 16% of the females and about 7% of the males who do not want to have kids and this really suggests that those sort of traditional expectations of getting married and having kids, continuing the family lineage, it's weakening at the very least.

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The young women expressed a stronger belief as compared to the men that they could have a satisfying life without getting married or having children.

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And this, in my opinion, is a phenomenal thing because again when you think about the rather subservient role which Chinese women have had throughout its cultural history, now you have a sharp break from that tendency in the sense that they just don't want to get married, don't want to have kids in larger and larger

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numbers. The surprising effect again is that when you are looking at peer influence, in this case just in terms of the number of their friends that are dating.

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It has a profound impact within these models and this is something I'll come back to in just a moment here.

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Now the more progressive behaviors and beliefs, the things like being willing to have sex on a first state which again was a taboo thing but then the cultural context of China just a single generation ago as well as the preference to go habit again, yielded some substantial effects.

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So it does signal that a lot of those traditional norms and expectations are changing and they're changing as rapidly as the society in which they are based.

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Overall, what I propose here is that those traditional linkages between marriage and childhood, well, among young people today they're just not as salient they're just not as meaningful as they were for just even the generation of their parents and certainly as compared to previous generations in China.

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What I would really recommend is that researchers need to get deeper into the youth culture. As I said, Most young adults in China just they live on their phones they live on social media sites You may have seen a couple of years ago the social phenomenon of lying flat where they were just basically saying I'm tired of working.

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I don't want to try anymore. Nowadays, the current trend is the one and I apologize for the tone of this but you know where you have a lot of Chinese young adults saying that they would just be better off dead than living.

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And it really speaks not just to the sense of desperation which many of them have for their futures in terms of education and careers.

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It also reflects the sort of pessimistic sentiment that they have towards marriage and childbearing because all of these very much are intertwined and tied together.

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So thank you very much.

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Thank you, Professor Blair and our next presenter will be Professor Chaling Wu from National Taiwan University.

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Chiang Wu from National Taiwan University, Chalang Wu from National Taiwan University, Singlehood Ag Economy and Stratified Reproduction.

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Good morning everyone. This is my great pleasure to be in this exciting panel. And my title of the presentation is Singer Who Ak Economy and Stratified Reproduction.

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There has been increasing singerhood in East Asia. Including Taiwan. So the graph shows that the percentage of never married at 45 to 49 years old in Taiwan was only 2% in 1,900 seventys for women but now it's 17% and for men it's over 20

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percent Single food has been increasing and fertility rate have been decreasing. So the graph shows that the total for theory rates has reached under 1% in Taiwan.

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And most of the people associate increasing singlehood with declining fertility rates. Because the first afterward wedlock is very weird in Taiwan.

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And some conservative politicians and media even bland singles. As the major cause, they are selfish behaviors as the major cause of a lobe of fertility rate today and however I would like to challenge the viewpoint from singles people's use of assistive protecting technologies.

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The ARTs have the features to separate the HITO sexuality from reproductions. So on your left is the techniques code in interuttering in examination.

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Spend. I watched spent from the partner or from the donors is ejected into women's odors.

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To achieve conception. On the right is in virtual fertilization. Nowadays the very common medical treatment for infertility.

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So fertilized eggs are achieved from the offering to be fertilized with sprint in my lab.

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And if successfully, embryos can be made in a lab, practitioners may implant one or more embryos into women's uterus.

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So with this procedures it's possible that single women to achieve protections. In what, assist you protect technology.

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For example, single women achieve conception to donate it sprints with IUI or IVF.

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Or something women may freeze their eggs with the mature skill of Creole preservation for their own future use.

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And others in other cases, single women provide donated eggs for other in material couples. So all of this practice.

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Can contribute to the growing what Katherine Wellbe's talk about the outside economies. So for today's presentation, I will follow single women's acts and there to reveal their reproductive labor.

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And 2 concepts might be useful for for the analysis. One is anticipatory labor. ARTs have been regarded as hope technology for some to achieve the productive goals.

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However, for others, they highlight the ARTs as a risky medicine because it may cause the health risk and social psychology, psychological risks as well.

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So in my recently published book, Making Madeleine's, I con the term anticipated labor because I would like to highlight women's thinking and doing doing conception, pregnancy and labor to achieve better futures.

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And they perceive. Another useful concept is stratified reproductions. Wrap and ging spreads emphasize that we need to pay attention to the power relations which some categories people are empowered to nurture to reproduce while others are disempowered.

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Feminist scholars like wheel takers and others. Encourage us to examine how social structure people's capacity to undertake ARTs resulting in stratified forms of reproduction.

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So my research questions are, what is single women's anticipatory labor to achieve their ideal features with my ARTs.

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And the core power relations The relationships do single women encounter doing their reproductive trajectories. So this is an ongoing project.

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The data here includes the real work in depth interviews. And archival data I collected in Taiwan and Japan in the past 5 years.

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So that's followed the X, pattern one. It's single women's quest. For donated sprint.

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They have a healthy eggs but all they need is the donated strength but they often end up in reproductive exile.

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So in Taiwan, the context is that ARTs are only for the married couples.

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We have 3 ways of regulation, ethical guidelines, regulation, and the assistive reduction acts which was stimulated in 2,007.

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All limited assets for ARTs to Heathos actually married couples. So singles, lesbians and gays have been denied as as to singles, lesbians and gays have been denied access to ARTs so they do not have been denied access to ARTs so they do not have complete reproductive

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citizenship. We know that Taiwan made the H as the first same sex marriage law in, 2,019, but gay and lesbian couples are given the marriage rights but not the family right so they cannot.

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Have the assets to AOTs. If we look at this, reproductive travel map.

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About 2 people travel to and from Taiwan we can see the event shows So for anyone who have the marriage license and who can afford the trip to Taiwan, you can go to Taiwan to have the access to ART so they can enjoy the flexible reproductive citizenship.

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However, Chinese citizens because you are single, right thing goes with lesbians or, gay couples.

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You, we, they have to go about to have the legal or sometimes illegal access to ARTs.

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So we call it looking at the exile. So, a, access to ARTs in Taiwan is based on the Meredith's single we might need to go abroad to gain the assets.

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So single women's anticipatory labours of ARTs. Including 2 aspects. One is that they tend to use IVF instead of the least the singer and donor insemination to enhance their success rates.

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And they have to travel abroad so they meet a lot of risk including stress to travel and financial burdens because the expenses to go abroad and to have the medical technologies.

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It's so much higher than what if they can do in Taiwan and they need house risks and some legal.

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So that's follow the X. Type 2 is social act freezing. And some single women would like to use social act racing to prolong their fertility capacity but I think in the end they meet the constraints of technology.

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The delayed parenthood in East Asia has been salient. So the highest mean age of women at birth of first child.

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Is from Korea. Oh, followed by Japan, Italy and Taiwan. And the gap between year 2,000 2,019 is highest in Taiwan because of the delayed parenthood and delayed marriage.

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Sell some private clinics will promote the use of a social ad freezing. For single women they advertised that as a good investment and as the commercial in the button they emphasize that when you break up with someone at an advanced age, you can still keep hope alive.

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Bye social at freezing. The cause of act freezing is around in Taiwan is around 4,000 US dollars per cycle.

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And however, it is not regulated. So there's no official data reporting. So when anger women as consumers to get a commodity, they know little about the outcomes.

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Of going through that social act freezing. So there is no data until last year. There is a report from the National County University Hospital.

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They revealed the 600 cases that they have been served in the past 20 years. And they found out that only 8% of the cases that the single women actually thought they their own eggs.

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And only 6% of them moved to the stage of embryo transfer. And under 3% of them actually gave life births.

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So 3%, what kind of investment? So it is mainly due to the our regulation that that because you need the IVF procedure to.

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To fertilize your frozen egg. So, but the limit, we limit the assets to married couple.

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So these single women have to get married in order to use their own egg. Competitively in other Western countries.

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Some of the women may store their eggs for donated sprint to achieve the voluntary single motherhood like in Spain and in the US around 40% of them will do so but it's not an option in Taiwan.

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So the last one is about egg donation. And some single women may donate the X for other infotile couples.

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And I want to highlight their invisible clinical labor. So they has been increasingly added use travel to to Taiwan in 10 years ago.

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It's only about 2% of all IVF cycles from foreigners for for foreigners but nowadays nearly 20% So in Taiwan, 20% of tests do babies, the server tested babies are foreigners.

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So we, have like 2,000 IVF babies come from the reproductive travelers.

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There has been a fast-growing act donation cases in Taiwan. 10 years ago is So you have around 200 to 300 cases per year.

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But now it's 10 times. And I estimated that at least 2 thirds of them are for the cross-border users.

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So look at this reproductive chat. I the major travelers are from China Hong Kong and Japan but others also from the North America and Southeast Asia so Taiwan has become a hub for representative travel many for the donated eggs And one of the reason is that there's a very good legal protections

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for full legal regulations and third party donations. So there is registration and the government requires street health examination of the donors.

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And also there's a non-commercial policy but donors are given high compensation fee. For example, the donors will be Act owners will be given 3 more than 3,000 US dollars.

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Even though there is a food legal projections, but it is the private clinics to mobilize, to build a new market.

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For example, this is the some, act donation reports and or some meetings for Japanese couples.

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And on the left is the TV report about 4 24 year old receiving from Japan who received a donated act from a 22 year old college student.

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And on the right is Asia's largest at bank in Taiwan. Who emphasized that they achieve pregnancies, a twin pregnancies for a 62 years old recipient who is from Taiwan.

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And they emphasised that they offer very strict health examination and they require that donors have to be young to like 20 to 34 years old.

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So they promote that the singer the quality from the women have a high of very high quality. On the right is the commercials.

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So solicit donors. They emphasize like you. So to give the law and they even though we don't have the age limit The age limit is what officially is about 20 to 40 years.

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So, but for clinics is 20 to 31 years old. And there's no requirement for potentials, but clinics will require at least a college over degrees at a minimum.

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And there's no regulation about heightened BMI, but things will require at least you have to offer 158 cm in BNI has to rethink 18 to 18 to 24.

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So, married women at advanced maternal age can achieve pregnancy with donated acts from the, the young women.

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And young single women anticipate. In remaining single in a country like Taiwan with low marriage rates, low marriage and fertility rates and are mobilized to offer optimistic services to inate married couples.

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And act donations like clinical labor include house examination taking the assimilation drugs and accurate retrieval procedures.

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And but they are clinging and they with this screen of labor they make more babies for other couples.

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But such Grinkle labor is not revealed at any fertility statistics. In Taiwan or abroad.

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So my, in this presentation, I want to present the 3 types of single women's involvement with the assisted robot active technologies.

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And they all have to go through the medical procedures, but they at least,atory labor might be more demanding because they have to travel abroad and or they their labor becomes invisible.

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And I think that he also married or status and intergenerational reproductive injustice and intergenerational reproductive injustice are the major strative injustice are the major stratified major aspects of the major stratified major aspects of certified actions.

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So for party implications, I think it's important to recognize single women's reflective labor desire and contribution.

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And we need to understand that the booming egg economy, for example in Taiwan, is built upon the stratified river.

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And so I would recommend to devote, deploy it more institutional revenue to us. For example, we need to have the legal reform to include single women to us.

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For example, we need to have the legal reform to include single women to us. For example, we need to have the legal reform to include single women, to us.

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For example, we need to have the legal reform to include single women, and to, give the assets, them, that give access to, ARTs and we may need to give the, give them the financial subsid equally.

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So this is my presentation. Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much, Professor Wu. And our next presentation will be online by Dr. Mirror Choi, and our next presentation will be online by Dr.

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Mira Choi from Yale University on gender ideology and changes in desires for heterosexual love, a study on cultural narratives young women opening out of sex dating marriage and childbearing in South Korea.

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Dr. Choi, are you there?

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Great.

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Yes, I am. Hello. In a enable me to share screen.

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Can everyone hear me and see the screen?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Okay. Hello everyone. I'm so sorry that I cannot be, there in person.

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I am now in the US. And, this is a part of my dissertation project that is very early on this is a part of my dissertation project that is very early on early stage so I would really welcome any kind of comment and

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To begin with, as everyone, a lot of the people already, suggested South Korea showcases an extreme rate of decline in marriages and births.

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The total fertility rate in South Korea reached the lowest in the world and over the last 2 decades the marriage rate has decreased by 43% in South Korea and in addition to this growing evidence suggests that a large share of South Korean adults may not be engaging in heterosexual romantic relationship.

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And, although it's not shown here in the graph, according to a survey conducted by the Ministry of Gender Equality and Family in 2,021.

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58.7% of South Korean adults age between 19 and 44. Said that being single was a positive choice and 22% of 22, a survey in 2,022 by Korea population health and welfare association of also found that 65% of young adults age between 19 and

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34 reported that they have not dated anyone in their life. And among those who are not dating currently, 70% stated that their single status is a voluntary choice.

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And the survey also revealed gender differences with 61% of men and 82% of women indicating that they chose to remain single.

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In addition, the survey also showed that 37% of men expressed satisfaction with being single while 62% of women reported contentment with their single status.

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So as you can see from all these, use media, reports, they've been growing interest, in the role of gender inequality in explaining such changes.

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And in line with these gendered patterns and explanations, there has been a group of young radical feminists in South Korea for practicing the so-called 4 B, which is, in English could be translated as 4 nose, which refers to saying no, like refusing

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heterosexual relationships including marriage, childbearing, sex and dating with cis gender heterosexual men.

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These women adopt the idea that the personal is political to highlight the ways in which personal and private issues such as romantic relationships are connected to the broader social, cultural, and political structures of power and oppression.

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For these women, boycotting any romantic and sexual involvement with cis-gender heterosexual men is considered as a way to confront gender inequality and patriarchy.

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So the 4 B movement really emerged. Amidst a resurgence of feminist activism sparked by a high-profile femicide at a public restroom in Ghana in 2016.

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Which led to a widespread anger and frustration over the deep-rooted gender inequality and the prevalence of sexism and misogyny in South Korea.

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Has increased public awareness and discussions around gendered power dynamics and of sexual harassment and violence in South Korea.

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The prevalence of, spy camp pornography, which is also called Mulca in South Korea.

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Which is installed in public spaces such as restrooms, also inside a feminist anger. So this research asks, so why are these what young women in South Korea, opting out of heterosexual relationships.

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More specifically, I am interested in asking how did the rise of feminism as a collective gathering led to the reinterpretation of heterosexual dating culture as, sexist and misogynist and how do they make sense of this sexism and misogyny and heterosexual relationships

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that lead to understandings of heterosexual relationships as something not worthy of pursuing and how that led to their decision to opt out of them.

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So looking, into the Literature. Persistence of gender dating and sexual scripts and its impact on romantic desires have been an interest of a lot of them and sociologists.

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Romantic and sexual scripts are prescribed to gender rules guiding people's feelings thoughts and behaviors and heterosexual young adults attitude to our gendered romantic and sexual scripts.

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Remain relatively conservative. According to some research, One research suggests that women, who are in header social relationships.

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They tend to interpret for treatment in heterosexual relationship as a normative path to adult women and growth opportunities.

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However, other researcher does that younger generation and especially women consider the sense of equality between romantic partners as an essential aspect of often ideal romantic partnership and one researcher suggests that despite the hegemonic power of gender sexual script at the cultural level.

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Some individuals create exceptions to gender rules and transform them to pursue and practice gender egalitarian relationships.

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I would like to kind of, emphasize and shed light on the feminists this critique of heterosexual love that is often neglected in the study of family and primary sociology.

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I'm been as scholars have long argued that head of sexuality is a mechanism for reproducing gender inequality in both the private and public spheres.

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And heterosexuality is shaped by the existence of gender as social categories that are hierarchical and Ingraham, coin this term heterogeneity to kind of shed light on tangled relationships between heterosexuality and gender.

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And the feminist critique of heterosexual love kind of shows the idiology of romantic love as a result of the separate spheres and it functions and that it functions as a cultural tool to reinforce the division of labor from which is fundamental to the sex class.

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And a more recent study suggests that misogyny and sexism inherent in heteronomativity create more suffering for heterosexual women and their suffering.

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And disappointment and heterosexual relationship should be a subject of inquiry. So while the disappointment and suffering of heterosexual women is a point of departure in my research.

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I also would like to argue in this research that there is little work that examines how young women underline and challenge heteronormative dating culture and how that leads to alternative choices.

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Pursuing egalitarian relationship which in this case is opting out of heterosexual intimacy.

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So, I conducted a semi, structured end up interviews between October 22 and March 2023.

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With 52 single female adults and there's 20 s and thirties who argue that they have, voluntarily opted out of any heterosexual relationships.

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And the interviews lasted about 120 about 2 h to 3 h and I talked with interviewees, with an open, within with an open mind and kind of revealing my identity as a South Korean feminist woman as well and we talked about their life histories relationships with their families, friends, co-workers and their romantic relationship

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history, opinions about their past relationships and attitudes toward heterosexual relationships among many others and in conducting interviews I borrowed the methodological philosophy from the feminist standpoint theory to kind of value and better understand, participants accounts of experiences and meaning they can process.

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Processes and Feminist standpoint theory highlights female experiences at a particular time in place with particular social positions and relationships relations as an essential channel to understand socialcially situated knowledge and power.

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And also in this research I put in motion as an important channel to understanding how invisible power dynamics and social relationships are played out in everyday life.

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And I kind of look into how these young women. Culture, I'll use cultural narratives to kind of Explain their decisions around opting out of heterosexual relationships.

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So first to start with, in describing the process of their decisions to opt out of heterosexual relationships.

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These women brought up their negative experiences in the past when they were socialized into gender dating scripts in South Korean colleges.

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They, what they refer to as college dating norms were often referred to as, culture of hierarchy that derives from the military culture because young college-aged men in South Korea are mandated to serve in the military for about 1.5 to 2 years and they returned to college and these men with military

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experiences were to these women at the core of building. College dating culture in South Korea. And based on this age hierarchy and the hierarchical culture of military these women perceive that men had more of the so-called choice power in dating and they ascribe to senior male students who served in

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the military for choosing. Men with female students to date. And they also brought up this prevailence of appearance rank in College College where, it's the system is devised by the senior college students which led to the pressure to put effort in beauty work which is in this case putting makeup and wearing

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feminine clothes to meet these expectations that is. Formed by senior college students around dating culture. So in this kind of within this cultural, norms around, heterosexual dating.

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I'd like to share a case of pan which a lot many of you might think that it's a very extreme case but actually this kind of idea was shared by a lot of these women.

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So although in Payton's college, the proportion of men was similar to women in her class, there was an evident male dominance in her college dating norms, which she attributed to military culture.

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So in our college, male classmates who had returned from obligatory military services were influential figures in creating the dating culture and in her case she could she had this experience where she could not pursue a romantic relationship with the men she liked because another senior male student chose to like her and chose.

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Chose her to be, his girlfriend and she ended up dating this other man with whom she did not feel any sexual and romantic attraction because of the peer pressure that suggested a woman to accept a male's affection.

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And there was also this social pressure, where, she described that, these social pressure where they called women trash if they did not accept men when they were vulnerable and expressed their genuine feelings toward men.

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So she explained this as an unequal choice power, which continued to shape her relationship dynamic with between her and her boyfriend.

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Where she had to engage with on to sex, which in this, quote, she referred to as great.

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So, to read at the, the quote, I tend to think it was a, it was all rape, a kind of gas lighting, things that happened in my relationship with him.

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So now that I think about it, there was close to a semi rape because he needed a woman to have sex with.

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He wanted to call that person his girlfriend. He needed a girlfriend not to feel alone. I thought I wanted it at that time and there were times when I actively participated in insects, but I still think it was a rape because I performed based on socialcially injected norms.

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So I think sex with men can is inherently a form of rape. In my experience, I don't know how to say it, but it was a rape by the society.

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Let me put it that way. Now that I think about it all, header all heterosexual relationships showed unequal power between men and women.

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So why did the experience of hierarchy and inequality in her past relationship lead to interpreting her romantic relationship as so negative to the point where she perceives of sexual interactions as a break by the society.

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What led to the generalization that all heterosexual relationships are unequal, therefore need to reject.

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Women who participated in online communities and the feminist protests, especially since 2,016.

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Were able to reinterpret heterosexual relationships as misogynistic and sexist and the collective experience where they posted online and shared their experiences, led to this collective, emotion of anger against men and that collective anger was also fueled because of men's lack of experience lack of experience lack of understanding and their

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ignorance and lack of understanding and their ignorance towards issues of dating violence that they experienced and their ignorance towards issues of dating violence that they experienced and they what they were fighting for.

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Here there is a quote by Honey who opted out of heterosexual relationship but still Identify as heterosexual women says the reason for the negative perception of men was the attitude of many.

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Sara Dr. Choi, you have 1 min left. Okay, thank you.

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Okay, toward the issue of sexual violence. If the men around me were more reflective of these issues, I don't think the hatred towards men would have increased increased these much.

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When I saw them rejected to be a social problem with their whole body and talk about their innocence. I just could not stand it anymore.

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This was not only my experience, but all of my female friends around me experienced it. Other women in online communities shared this exact same experiences.

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The anecdotes just added up and I could not help but be furious. So as they share this emotion of anger and fear collectively related to their experiences and the ways in which their experiences are minimalized by men.

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The collective anger led to radical feminist discourse around boycotting men. So here it says, my decision to date man is also informed by feminism.

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Idiologically, if I date men, I will naturally exhibit romance to others. Here it referring to other women.

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If people see my heterosexual relationships in public or on social media, that means they are consuming my romantic relationship.

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I don't want to contribute to fantasizing romance and making it seem desirable. So unless I'm dated to love or man, I would rather not.

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So here she explains how boycotting men and not displaying romantic relationship with men, was a way of kind of in.

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Fighting more women to be safe from experiencing risk and inequality of heterosexual relationships. So she was really, feeling even repulsive.

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That and to the point where she thought that boycotting men, was of should be a feminist practice so that more and more women can kind of de-phanticize romance and opt out of heterosexual relationships.

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So although this is a very small, very, small part of, the rich data set, here I'd like to conclude, that I attempt to discuss the experiences of heterosexual dating culture among young feminist women in South Korea and attempt to explain how these women interpret the gender dating scripts

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and the violence and what explain what drives them to completely opt out of heterosexual relationship.

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And in that, since I highlight the role of shared emotions of anger among women in the rise of heterosexual refusal and the diverging views of gender inequality and heterosexual dating between men and women as kind of the gateway of understanding.

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Understanding the rise of heterosexual refusal. Thank you very much.

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Thank you, Dr. Joy. Now you have our last presentation by a professor Naki Ikuchi what factors decrease such a section with your mental relationships and You have 6 min to present your work.

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Thank you.

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Thank you. I would like to first thank the chair for letting me allow to present today and I would like to share my slides for letting me allow to present today and I would like to share my slides online which I hope would work.

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Just coming.

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Maybe you can join the room.

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So, okay, yeah, good. Thank you. Then you have to speak here. Yeah, I'll speak here.

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Yeah, thank you

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Okay, thank you. Okay, so my presentation is about satisfaction with mental relationships and background as we have seen in Japan as well.

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We have decreasing total fertility rates and marriage rates. And there's a lot of discourse and government policy shouting the need for to tackle this problem and encouraging you to marry and have more children and II do agree with this but I have one thing that we should consider as at the same time is that and that is the topic

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is marriage still satisfactory for everyone and And my, kind of theoretical, interest is in gender and the of course the public opinion is changing recognizing the need for gender equality in Japan but in reality the actual circumstances have not changed much in Japan and there's so much gender gap in the area of labor in Japan and

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unequal participation in household activities with wives doing much more than husbands.

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So my main interest is how do the factors of marital satisfaction differ by gender? And I use the data from the National Survey by the Japan Youth Study Group last year and we had we had 33,220 respondents and I used the 5 1552 who are who are married in this presentation And as for

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the dependent variable, I use how satisfied are you with the relationship with your partner and of those who are married this this is the table for the for this question and It shows most of them are satisfied and and due to small number of cases I dichotomize it to 2 categories very satisfied or somewhat satisfied or less and did

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binomial analysis and and for the independent and control variables I used years after marriage because previous studies suggest these have impact and standard of living economic factors and high if the participant had a higher education or not and Also, aspects considered when choosing the partner and I used 3 variables and one is sense of security but when being together.

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Second is economic status of the partner and third is the reckon the partner recognizes my ability and efforts and this this variable is what I am most interested in and of the gentle differences.

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And so I show the results of the binomial logic for women and men. And for women, this is the result these are results and the years of marriage and standards of living showed similar results to previous research and also recognition of my abilities and efforts, the partner's recognition.

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And did have an effect. And as for men, It didn't have an effect and So we can kind of compare the results between women and men.

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And I'll just. Show them. And So, okay. So I did some analysis on romantic relationship as well before marriage as well, but it actually didn't show clear results and romantic relationship as well before marriage as well but it actually didn't show clear results and I should do more research on it but I'll

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now due to the limitation of time I'll just skip onto the main results. And and men, men and those who have been married for a shorter period of time, those who had a better standard of living and those who chose partner by the aspect of sense of security want to get attended, have higher metals satisfaction compared to

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others and this is consistent with most of the previous research. And also women's marital satisfaction is related to choosing a partner who acknowledges her abilities and efforts while this relationship was not found for men.

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And so, for the conclusion, I say that with low recognition of women in the labor sphere and high rather higher recognition for men.

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Recognition within family may matter more than men for women and also recognition of abilities by partner could be related to being able to continue full-time work at their own will.

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So one setting governmental policies to urge people to marry, I think it is necessary to at the same time to tackle gender in inequality in the labor sphere at the same time for the those policies to be just.

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So that's the end of my presentation. Thank you very much.

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Thank you. Professor Gucci and also thank you to all the 6 presenters. Now the floor is open for Q&A.

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And now the floor is open for Q&A. And could I invite all our presenters. Now the floor is open for Q&A.

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And could I invite all our presenters outside to the front? For a more interactive session.

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All right, for me.

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Yeah, yeah, please, please use the microphone. Yeah, probably, I'm going to

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Weeks Thanks for a very interesting session. I have just got an observation and a question. My observation is thinking about how this thinking about population in the way that it's framed.

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In some of the papers here like assume that a fallen population is a negative thing. In advance. My question is like where do queer people fit into your work and how do you think about people who aren't in heterosexual relationships as part of the work that you're doing.

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I mean thinking about broader discussions of what it means to think about population.

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Oh, should I ask a question now? Or do you wanna answer that question? Now since you're here you can ask.

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So I really enjoyed all the papers. So I really enjoyed all the papers. I learned a lot. So I really enjoyed all the papers. I learned a lot.

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My name. So I really enjoyed all the papers. I learned a lot. My name is Wimi. All the papers. I learned a lot.

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My name is Wimia. I learned a lot. My name is Wimiya. Us all presentation.

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Explicit your in procedure mentioned. Marriage and childbearing is tightly linked in East Asia or Southeast Asia that's also the case for the 3 societies you examine Taiwan and Hong Kong and Singapore.

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Singapore might be might be exception due to some more diverse kind of messages but still, there's almost no no mortal chapter in these societies in my understanding.

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So my question is that So you focused on fitterity intentions, but I wonder if you asked maritime t in the survey and if so is there like how I want the kind of the perception about political inference is also associated with the intention to marry.

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So that's, yeah, that's my question. Thank you.

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Yeah, I guess probably the presenters can address these 2 questions first. Thank you for your questions.

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Let me answer the first question. So the question about is not having babies a negative thing. I don't think so.

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Actually, when we say that increased fertility, negative thing. I don't think so. Actually, when we say that increased fertility intention, my underpinnings of that statement is not that all everyone has to have babies you know instead you know we actually in a survey measure that desirable number of children that those people

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want. All right, and that when we say that, you know, what we try to do is to see whether policies or other factors will increase the fertility intention closer to the desired level of desired number of babies.

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So we can see a gap between the actual and the desired one. So that is why when you say increase the fertility intention it doesn't mean that you know that they want to you know we are not from natureless in a sense that you know everyone have to have babies we want to boost it up yet I'm hearing the

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Rasmussen from ANU by the way. I didn't introduce myself. I totally get that point, but I also think that there's a sense that when we keep on doing this work, we kind of.

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Like frame it in such a way that it doesn't like look at those other questions. Like that's I suppose my larger point.

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Thanks a lot. And, well, I guess there are like pros and cons in doing this, there are like pros and cons in doing these doing these kind of research, there are like pros and cons in doing this doing this kind of research right and how data and the presentations or the studies, this kind of research, right?

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And how, data and the presentations or the studies are interpreted really we cannot control this very, and how, data and the presentations or the studies are interpreted really we cannot control this very, very much, right?

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But then I guess, in all, in my papers, at least, we, highlights the fact that, you know, there's a gap between the desired ones, a designer of children and the actual and that what we are trying to do is to hope that people really, can make the choice without too many

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constraints. We think that it might be a survey problem, you know, in a sense that we put too many dimensions in it and then maybe people might have missed some of those dimensions but we cannot for sure you know tell why this is the result.

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Thanks for a question.

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Yeah. Do 2 responses. One, in in terms of the sort of need to have children.

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Looking at it you know from both a micro and a macro perspective on the micro level of course people's personal preferences, desires, family histories and so forth do come into play.

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In the work that I've been doing in China when you back up and look at it from the macro point of view.

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The fertility rate is having a huge impact upon its economy, in terms of the labor force, it's having an impact upon the political realm.

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It goes they're having a deal now with the fact that isn't very much an aging population.

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And Chinese culture does share a lot of components with a lot of its neighbors throughout Asia. In the sense that the younger generation is very much looked upon as being obligated to take care of the elderly members of a family.

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Because of the fertility constraints throughout China's history of the last 50 odd years now, we're now left with China's history of the last 50 odd years now.

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We're now left with what are commonly referred to as 4 to one families. We're now left with what are commonly referred to as 4 to one families referred to as 4 to one families where you have grandparents, 2 parents, and then just the one child that's left to be produced there.

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And that place is an incredible burden upon that one child because they're now taking care of all of these additional older family members.

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That again is going to have a multitude of consequences. Now, to come back to your other question or point there.

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I didn't address it in my research here today but the LGBTQ population in China is substantial.

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And it's it is just fascinating really to look at from a researcher's point of view because they've had things such as the the Shannu sort of label.

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It means leftover women. This was a tag that was placed upon basically college educated single women where they were regarded as being selfish if they did not go out and get a husband get married.

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But you've also had a lot of pressure in China which has been placed upon specifically lesbians.

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Efforts, you know, both through the government as well as on the local level to basically give up their sexual identity.

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Do your patriotic duty and go out and get a husband has really become a theme. But it is a very dualistic sort of environment that goes with of course the fertility restrictions you've got an incredibly skewed sex ratio with lots and lots of men.

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Not as many comparable numbers. And as a consequence, looking at it in a very pragmatic way you've got lots of single men who have no hope no whatsoever of being in a heterosexual marriage and many of them they've gravitated to simply identifying as gay.

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But being gay in China, it's not like being gay and more, you know, accepting cultures.

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It's something which has always been taboo, frowned upon, you know, pushed to the margins.

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But yet in most large cities even in smaller cities across China. You can find gay bars, gay dance clubs, you know, KTB and all of these things which are specifically for the gay population.

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That advertise openly. And the government just sort of, you know, looks the other way. It allows this.

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But the lesbian counterparts like the lesbian bars, clubs and so forth.

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They have to operate underground. Simply because once they are discovered they are just shut down by the government.

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Because again the perspective is These women shouldn't be doing that. They should be heterosexual and it's It's messed up.

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I think that,

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Before.

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Okay, can I ask questions? Sure. Yeah, hi. I'm Suzanne Choi from the Chinese University of Hong Kong.

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I have a question for Professor Lloyd and then Professor Wu. So my question for Professor Wu.

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So my question for Professor Lois, I, this of all the papers are fascinating. So thank you very much.

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This of all the papers are fascinating. So thank you very much. This is about Singapore. I think the papers are fascinating. So thank you very much. This is about Singapore.

449
01:36:14.000 --> 01:36:23.000
I think you know it's really interesting that the perception and for 30 intentions were later in Tongkong and Taiwan but about Singapore.

450
01:36:23.000 --> 01:36:36.000
My, is a question but it's also I would propose a suggestion, comment. Have you measure political trust in the survey?

451
01:36:36.000 --> 01:36:42.000
Actually I didn't. We didn't, we didn't. We, it's not there.

452
01:36:42.000 --> 01:36:58.000
Yes, because I think the reason why perception of political influence and fertility intention are political inference and fertility intention and not we later in Singapore is because people have very high level trust and fertility intention and not we're later in Singapore, and fertility intention are not we're later in Singapore, it's because people have very high level of trust of

453
01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:04.000
the government. So it doesn't really matter about whether they perceive they have influence on the government's policy or not because they think that the government or they believe that government is very capable.

454
01:37:04.000 --> 01:37:14.000
This is my perception I got when I was living in Singapore for 6 months. So I'm just proposing that this may be something you can pursue in your paper.

455
01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:15.000
Okay, thank you so much. Actually, can I have a quick respond for us?

456
01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:25.000
Sorry about that. So, thank you, Assassin. And actually in our paper we put it in the background.

457
01:37:25.000 --> 01:37:38.000
Like when we talk about the different societies, we also writes that the Singaporean citizens, they trust the government's PAP a lot, thinking that they are the major reason why Singapore is prosperous.

458
01:37:38.000 --> 01:38:01.000
Despite a little bit of dissent from from the public yeah but yeah but that is not we didn't test this yeah so my question for a professor will I think yeah this is really fascinating research but I think yeah this is really fascinating research but my question is that the Taiwanese government just passed a law to allow

459
01:38:01.000 --> 01:38:08.000
same-sex couples to have a sister with productive technology. I think. Or to adoption.

460
01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:21.000
Adoption. Okay, so can you explain to us why the government for example now has allow same-sex couples for adoption but still buy them from using a system with protective technology.

461
01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:34.000
This first question. And you know what the Taiwanese governments and rationale of you know, they have already passed only the link parent with from heterosexual marriage.

462
01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:43.000
Yeah. But then they are still attaching paranoid with marriage. So what is that now that the public discourse?

463
01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:51.000
Okay. So thank you. Thank you for the question. Suzanne, I think this still very strong countermovement.

464
01:38:51.000 --> 01:38:58.000
For in Taiwan about the gay and lesbian rights. So the government tend to.

465
01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:08.000
Tend to reform the policy step by step. So first it's adoption, but after that reaction.

466
01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:29.000
They might change the law to give the assets. To get lesbian papos there the usage of ARTs but not single women So as far as I know, that's why I want to emphasize the importance of the brings down single hood with the rights to ERTs.

467
01:39:29.000 --> 01:39:40.000
And I also want to respond to Mary's questions. I think it's very important to from the low fertility social crisis with the critical perspective.

468
01:39:40.000 --> 01:39:53.000
With critical perspectives. I think at least we have 3 ways to do that. One is to bring in the environment mental issues when we calculate the capacity to have so many people on earth.

469
01:39:53.000 --> 01:40:08.000
You need to bring bring that aspect. In terms of calculating demographics to transition. And second, aspect is that to bring young human actors in family formations.

470
01:40:08.000 --> 01:40:25.000
For example, in Taiwan, we do have the statistics that young people raise cats and dogs more than children and that's part of their supportive and caring network that should be counted.

471
01:40:25.000 --> 01:40:50.000
And the third aspect is that we should go beyond the traditional biological and married marriage based family because in a society if we are afraid of aging populations but we can go beyond the the care scheme by taking looking into all kinds of mutual care in the society.

472
01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:59.000
So we shouldn't have the like some policy only focusing on the traditional, family format. Thank you.

473
01:40:59.000 --> 01:41:12.000
I think I just saw 4 hands. Probably I will collect all the questions all together and then the presenters can decide how to respond.

474
01:41:12.000 --> 01:41:20.000
I think Hushu and the lady there and then I think a hand there and then the gentleman over there okay and let's ask the questions join to me.

475
01:41:20.000 --> 01:41:32.000
I'll go first. And second and third and fourth. I would like to first thank all the presenters for this fantastic panel.

476
01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:33.000
I really enjoyed all your papers and I would like to first thank all the presenters for this fantastic panel.

477
01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:42.000
I would like to first thank all the presenters for this fantastic panel. I really enjoyed your presentation for this fantastic panel.

478
01:41:42.000 --> 01:42:11.000
I really enjoyed, all your papers and I learned a lot. And so my question is, have you looked at gender differences within East Asia?

479
01:42:11.000 --> 01:42:21.000
I would assume East Asian women were even more acutely aware of the motherhood penalty, you know, the cost of parenthood on them.

480
01:42:21.000 --> 01:42:35.000
And my second question might be beyond the scope of your presentation. I'm just wondering about the reasons for this Southeast Asia versus East Asia pattern we are seeing in your presentation.

481
01:42:35.000 --> 01:42:59.000
Because I think East Asia and Southeast Asia, they are different in so many different ways. Because I think East Asia, they are different in so many different levels and aspects.

482
01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:17.000
Economic development level and the working hours are very different Could I ask the 3 of you to put your questions briefly?

483
01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:28.000
Thank you. Question for Professor Wu. You talked about intergenerational reproductive injustice I think at the end and I was interested to hear more about what you meant by that.

484
01:43:28.000 --> 01:43:51.000
So I was I was interested to the questions of anonymity of donation didn't seem to be raised so I wondered about you're talking about younger women helping older couples but I also wondered if the I you know the future children and their issues around knowing who their genetic parents are entering into the discussions or not.

485
01:43:51.000 --> 01:44:04.000
Hello, Hi. I'm from International University. Thank you for all of your presentations. I think what I come from a country where we sell more adult diapers than we do baby diapers. We sell more adult diapers than we do baby diapers.

486
01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:16.000
And none of you have actually highlighted. What the solution might be to some of these really catastrophic issues, data scientists point to population collapse.

487
01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:24.000
And I see firsthand the absolute problems and concerns that I think young people will have with older people, right?

488
01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:35.000
And so like what do we, like we have an education system where actually we push people and there's arguments that between whatever, 18 to 29 we push on adults to pursue their education occur.

489
01:44:35.000 --> 01:44:43.000
So this idea that we don't have a vision for young adults beyond 30. When we are living much longer.

490
01:44:43.000 --> 01:44:50.000
And so another question is, why don't we, it has to do with adult education. It also has to do with a question about.

491
01:44:50.000 --> 01:44:57.000
You know, what do you think the solution behind this is? Like, what do we do to correct this?

492
01:44:57.000 --> 01:45:05.000
And doesn't matter. It looks kind of scary actually and I wonder what you guys have to what you all have to say about that.

493
01:45:05.000 --> 01:45:10.000
Thank you. Of course.

494
01:45:10.000 --> 01:45:18.000
Okay, thank you for your fascinating presentations. I have a question for Professor Woo. So in for the understand this at economy I'm very interested in the parties involved and the chance of interest of this economy.

495
01:45:18.000 --> 01:45:42.000
So it's at donation and everything happening in IVF hospitals and what kind of hospitals are there any private companies and brokers involved and also because there is this increasing number of global enterprise investing in IVF treatment.

496
01:45:42.000 --> 01:45:55.000
So is it also the case in Taiwan and how does this contribute to our understanding of Taiwan's stage of the global fertility trend and also stratify reproduction.

497
01:45:55.000 --> 01:46:00.000
Thank you.

498
01:46:00.000 --> 01:46:09.000
Additionally, last week. Thank you. Okay. Okay, check the gender difference between women and men.

499
01:46:09.000 --> 01:46:29.000
I haven't checked it yet. I guess there is a difference. And the reason why we started this study is that we, we, some scholars from Japan and South Korea thought that Asia all this thing But we couldn't really understand the secrets of Sussex.

500
01:46:29.000 --> 01:46:42.000
Why are they so happy? We are all the stage. And we are very gloomy. We like to love.

501
01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:53.000
How they become happy. So that's why we begin this product but maybe To begin with, we were wrong.

502
01:46:53.000 --> 01:47:06.000
As Dr. Houses said. Asians are not protesting from the beginning, I guess. So I will check the different macro and video and micro-level difference more quickly.

503
01:47:06.000 --> 01:47:30.000
Thank you. So I just ask, I try to answer the question about solutions, okay, because in our experimental research we also very appoint some counterfactual scenarios, so what we found is that childcare service, if they are affordable, really increase the fertility intention for 3 societies.

504
01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:54.000
And the second one is another policy is the parental leaf. So we very appoint 3 different scenarios like no leave at all and then the second scenario is each year 6 days of leave that is Singaporean Singapore policy and then before the child reached H 7.

505
01:47:54.000 --> 01:48:06.000
And then third one is the Taiwanese model with 180 days of parental leave for men and also for women and also a 1 h of cuts in work hours.

506
01:48:06.000 --> 01:48:31.000
And the last scenario is a very, really counterfactual is 180 days apparently for men and women and also plus limit each each work day to be 6 h and that particular six-hour work day is adopted from Japan.

507
01:48:31.000 --> 01:48:35.000
Okay, so what we found is that, you can, what we found is that there is a progressive increase in all these levels.

508
01:48:35.000 --> 01:48:49.000
Meaning that if the countries are really trying to use some family policy to help striking the balance between work and family, it does work.

509
01:48:49.000 --> 01:49:06.000
So I hope it's a quick answer. And also, of course, for countries that want democracy or want more political influence, having political influence also have influence in increasing fertility in tension.

510
01:49:06.000 --> 01:49:19.000
Tell you. One thing we have to, consider when solutions and population is migration and the population is migration and the multicultural solutions and population is migration and multicultural support.

511
01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:33.000
And that's another aspect we have to consider as well as the population is migration and the multicultural support and that's another aspect we have to consider as well as the labor market and thank you very much for, the important questions from Celia.

512
01:49:33.000 --> 01:49:56.000
Why I mean the important questions from Celia. Why I mean internet intergenerational injustice is that women at financial capital and cultural capital they can use their flexible productive citizenship to get donated Act usually from a young.

513
01:49:56.000 --> 01:50:06.000
However, I think they face their own risk too because they have to bear the children at advanced maternal age.

514
01:50:06.000 --> 01:50:17.000
And for the, on the other hand, for the young people, they in countries like Taiwan, they think that their chances of getting married and having children is so low.

515
01:50:17.000 --> 01:50:34.000
So they want to contribute to for other women. But our policy is for act donation and spend donation is anonymity so they have no way to know their contributions currently.

516
01:50:34.000 --> 01:50:43.000
But the genetic testing. Technology has been advancing so quickly. There's the online system called Ternusi and me.

517
01:50:43.000 --> 01:50:54.000
It's not practicing in Taiwan. It's Asia, but who knows? So I think we need to, take consideration of the ethical issues more careful.

518
01:50:54.000 --> 01:51:03.000
And for, Shelming's fascinating poems, I think it's very important to bring in the international system.

519
01:51:03.000 --> 01:51:15.000
Stakeholders into the whole pictures. For example, men having babies that international organizations have come to Thailand 3 times after Taiwan passed the law.

520
01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:31.000
So this is a big business, surrogacy. For telling these men to go to the US cause about 10,01010,000 10,000 that US status at least.

521
01:51:31.000 --> 01:51:44.000
Right. So, however, they are other ethical issues to take into consideration for example the rights of a surrogate mothers.

522
01:51:44.000 --> 01:52:04.000
And only those who have very high social economic status can do that. But if we only have the strong promotion from this commercial companies we might not be able to think about the whole pictures more completely.

523
01:52:04.000 --> 01:52:08.000
Okay, yeah, but I will look into, that aspect more in the future. Thank you.

524
01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:17.000
Thank you all. Thank you. All the presenters and our audience for a fruitful session.